October 23, 2025 • 49 mins
Live from the CREtech main stage at New York’s Javits Center on October 21, WeWork CEO John Santora sat down with Bisnow Editor-in-Chief Mark Bonner to unpack one of CRE’s biggest comebacks — from bankruptcy to EBITDA positive, $2.2B in revenue and 550K members, including 47 of the Fortune 100. Occupancy has surged past 90% in Midtown Manhattan and hit 100% in key global markets.
This conversation dropped 24 hours early — in video form — for First Draft Insider Access subscribers. That's our daily briefing for people who want to see what's next in commercial real estate before everyone else. You can join them now for $9 per month at bisnow.com/firstdraft.
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Episode Transcript
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Mark Bonner (00:05):
You're listening to a special edition of First Draft
Live. This week, I took thestage at CREtech in New York
City to interview WeWork CEO,John Santora, live from the
Javits Center in front of morethan 3,000 real estate pros.
WeWork's resurrection might bethe most unlikely comeback in
modern real estate. Frombankruptcy court to
(00:26):
profitability, $2,200,000,000 inrevenue, and a membership roster
that includes nearly half of theFortune one hundred. This
conversation actually droppedtwenty four hours earlier for
the first draft Insider Accesssubscriber.
That's our daily briefing forpeople who want to see what's
next in commercial real estatebefore everyone else. You can
(00:46):
join them now for $9 a month atbisnow.com/firstdraft. That's
bisnow.com/firstdraft. Now let'shead to the stage. So, John, I
wanna start at the beginninghere.
You know, few companies incommercial real estate or
technology have lived this storyas dramatic as WeWork. It went
(01:08):
from explosive growth to a nearmythical crash and then emerged
from bankruptcy with a cleanbalance sheet and new
leadership. You stepped inafter, let's call it, he who
shall not be named era. Andtoday, the numbers tell a
completely different story.You've been EBITDA positive
since Q4 twenty twenty four.
(01:28):
You did over $2,200,000,000 inrevenue last year. You have
550,000 members, including 47 ofthe Fortune 104,000 enterprise
companies. Occupancy is 77%globally, above 80% in several
markets, 90% in MidtownManhattan, and 100% in places
(01:51):
like Salesforce Tower in SanFrancisco and 1 Central Plaza in
Dublin. There are literally nofull floors left in New York
right outside the doors of theJavits Center. You even brought
your Latin America businessfully back in house, and now
you're preparing to roll out aslew of new products and
partnerships in 2026.
(02:12):
In case you didn't know, WeWorkisn't just a real estate story
anymore. It's a global stresstest for how tech and human
behavior coexist at work. Butlet's start at the beginning. I
don't think a lot of people knowthis, but you spent decades in
commercial real estate, namelyat Cushman and Wakefield, where
I believe you spent forty sevenyears. Brokerage, global
(02:33):
services, now you're CEO of oneof the most storied brands in
the industry.
But John, I want you to behonest with everyone in this
room. When you first walked intoWeWork, what was the energy in
the room like?
John Santora (02:45):
What was the?
Mark Bonner (02:46):
What was the energy in the room like when you first
walked into WeWork?
John Santora (02:49):
Wow. So you used all my stats to start with,
Mark, so I don't know what I'mgonna say during the the next
forty five minutes, but energyin the room was a group that was
just coming through bankruptcy,exiting bankruptcy, and as I
said, as I talked to the group,you've got a lawyer on one
shoulder and an accountant onthe other shoulder and the whole
(03:11):
decision making process. So itwas from my perspective, it was
to bring new life, new energy,put all that behind the team,
and we had to move forward.
Mark Bonner (03:24):
WeWork was always more than square feet though. It
was a vibe. How do you rebuild aculture after a company's been
through that kind of turbulencelike this one has been?
John Santora (03:33):
So I look at the team was really committed. They
and you think about the process.They went through this two and a
half year process of bankruptcy,right? The falling down, the
coming out, and they needed anew start. But they were
committed to the company andcommitted to the legacy of that
(03:55):
that community vibe within ourspaces.
Our spaces and our communitymembers were always so important
and continue to be so importantabout the culture of WeWork and
what our members see and feeleach and every day.
Mark Bonner (04:11):
I mean, look, you spent nearly fifty years in
commercial real estate. Youcould have chosen so many safer
options. This was one of thebiggest messes in all of
capitalism. Right? This washeadline news all around the
world.
Why did you want to go get intothis mess? What did you see that
(04:32):
everyone else didn't see at thatmoment in time?
John Santora (04:35):
Well, first of all, yes, I've spent forty seven
years in commercial real estateand when I looked at this and I
reached out to Anad Jardy as hemade the acquisition at a
bankruptcy, I said to him, Anna,you you acquired a real estate
firm. And he said to me, Ithought it was a tech firm. I
said, no, it's a real estatefirm. So, I knew I was coming
(04:57):
into the real estate firm andthat's where I came from. Right?
That's where I was grounded myentire career and all aspects of
it. But the choice to do that,part of it was it's a turnaround
story. And it was an excitingway as I look at it for the next
(05:18):
phase of my career orpotentially, you know, my last
phase of my career. But I wantedto take that on because WeWork,
the brand, and the flexible realestate market are so important
to everyone out there, soimportant to the real estate
industry, to heads of realestate, and to the future, I
(05:42):
think, of the real estatebusiness.
Mark Bonner (05:44):
When you first walked in there though, I'm sure
there was a lot of legacythinking. There was a lot of
infrastructure that was a legacyof the past. Perhaps you came in
to the situation with your ownlegacy thinking. How did you
cross that chasm?
John Santora (06:03):
I think, yes, there's some legacy thinking.
There was some legacy systemsand ways of doing things. But I
brought the team together andsaid this is a new day. And it's
a new day and we need to goforward. We can't be thinking
back.
I don't want at this table,well, this is how we always did
it, or this is the way we do it.It's how do we move forward?
(06:27):
What's our what's our next stepforward? How do we change things
while still keeping the basicprinciple of community, of great
space, and a flexible realestate.
Mark Bonner (06:40):
Turning a profit was the big headline. The
comeback story is real. We'veall read the story. But what's
the story underneath it? Where'sthe margin actually coming from
right now?
Pricing, efficiencies,technology?
John Santora (06:52):
No, it's not coming from technology. It's
coming from our spaces, from theoccupancy level, and where we
are. So today, we're now in aposition of strength. Right?
We've restructured theportfolio.
We have no debt. We're investingbetween 80 and a $100,000,000 in
our space this year, a similaramount last year. We know that
(07:16):
on a go forward basis, we needto spend that money to keep our
spaces up to date, to continueto advance them forward, to
bring in new technology, and tocreate to continue to create
spaces that our members wanna bein the places they wanna be
around the world.
Mark Bonner (07:34):
So beyond the financial metrics, what are the
user or product signals thattell you this model is working?
Engagement, retention, is itexpansion, is it traditional
real estate, getting more squarefootage, new markets? Where's
your eye at on that kind
John Santora (07:49):
of stuff? Look, we handle from one to 10,000, or
one to 1,000 are the same. Butthat entrepreneur, and the AI
entrepreneur in many cases nowaround the world, needs that
five seats, 10 seats as they'rebuilding up their company. We
also handle, you know, spacesfor the 50 seats, that small
(08:11):
business in a market. And thenwe have the enterprise system.
So we have 47, the Fortune 100,but we have so many firms that
look to us to be their a part oftheir real estate platform.
Today, a real estate head ofreal estate is looking at 20 to
30% of their portfolio flexiblefor lots of reasons, and we can
(08:34):
go into that in a minute. So youhave that enterprise model, and
then the newest part of that isactually building out space and
committing to a number of yearsfor that enterprise client. So
anybody who's spent any timehere in New York has seen over
the last year what we've done,the headlines around Amazon. So
(08:55):
here in New York, as they returnto office and around, you know,
other parts of The United Statesand even other parts of the
world.
So a big portfolio. But we'vecontinued to do that with a
number of different enterpriseclients. We just did one in
Toronto for 25,000 square feetfor a spin off of a pharma
(09:15):
company. So we're working onthat deal now. I was on the
phone today with with twosignificant world financial
banks around spaces, one here inThe US and one over in Europe.
So continuing to look at thatmodel, we've got a couple that
we've done in the West Coast.The other piece of that model is
(09:39):
some of these firms, especiallythe spin off firms and some of
the technology firms, need theircapital to invest in their
products, to invest in research.So we'll put the capital up on
the space to build out thespace.
Mark Bonner (09:54):
You have so many other competitors today than the
company had at its verybeginning. Some people would say
that WeWork invented coworking.Or it was, at least for most
people, their first interactionwith that sort of model. Fast
forward to today, there are manymore competitors on the playing
field. Some are traditionalcompetitors.
We won't get into those namebrands. And then some of them
(10:16):
are not traditional players whoare trying to adopt coworking or
flex into their business model.What makes WeWork different? Why
should anyone sign a short termlease with WeWork when they
could work with a galaxy ofother competitors on the playing
field?
John Santora (10:32):
So, yeah, there is a there is a broad base of
competitors, people that dabblein it, people that are committed
to it from a big scale that arethat have a broad platform. But
for us, as I said, we're theonly company that can handle
that small user, and we'regeared to that, but we can also
handle the biggest in the worldand find the space for them. The
(10:54):
other thing is our marketpresence. Right? 37 countries
around the world, 600 locationsthat are 45,000,000 square feet,
600 locations that are ours,another thousand here in The
States that are alliancemembers, and an additional
thousand internationally that'llbe rolled out by the end of the
(11:15):
year.
So it's a broad based platform,and it's the consistent delivery
in each and every one of thosemarkets around the world. You
know when you walk into a WeWorkspace, you're greeted by that
community that communitymanager, that community
associate. You see and feel thespace, the welcoming that's
(11:36):
there. That's a model that'svery difficult to duplicate.
Mark Bonner (11:40):
I mean, you know, lots of landlords are now saying
flex is a must have, quoteunquote, and everyone is racing
to build their own version ofwhat we were kicked off many,
many years ago. What's yourhonest reaction when you see
traditional owners trying to dowhat you do?
John Santora (11:55):
I didn't hear that. Is your
Mark Bonner (11:57):
honest reaction when you see traditional owners
trying to do what you do?
John Santora (12:00):
Well, when I look at the owners trying to do it
now, a lot of owners, we workwith them. We work with them.
But, you know, and and and, youknow, I understand and we all
believe that a a significantpiece of every major office
building should be flexed. Someowners are trying to do it
(12:21):
themselves, others have come tous to do it or some of the other
players, and some have done itthemselves and are now looking
to us to take it to the nextlevel. What we bring is a
platform of, again, globalmembers, 550,000 members.
We bring an all access card,having that black card that you
(12:42):
can access any one of ourlocations around the world. They
will come and use the space ifthey're visiting New York,
they're visiting or they'rebased in downtown, they're going
to Midtown or wherever they maybe. That owner is only capturing
what's around that little pieceof where his office building is.
Mark Bonner (13:01):
You were talking about your enterprise clients.
What are they asking for todaythat they perhaps weren't five
years ago? And does it run onthe lines of tech integrations
or data transparency?
John Santora (13:12):
Right. So what they're asking for is a couple
of things. One, it's speed tomarket. We can do it faster, and
when I was on the other side, Icouldn't believe this, but we do
it faster than any other companycan do it to get you in the
space and get you up andrunning. A lot of what I talked
about earlier, I mentioned withsome of our clients, including
Amazon, It was sixty days thatthey were in the space.
(13:34):
Mhmm. And I challenge anybody tohave that same speed to market.
It's cost, it's the commitment,the capital that we're willing
to do, and yes, the integrationwith our technology is an
important part of that. But somefirms say, sorry, we don't want
your technology, we want to putour own in. And we help them
(13:55):
through that process as well.
Mark Bonner (13:57):
So part of your job is this peer over the horizon.
It's very difficult to do rightnow given where the state of the
office market is, at least inThe United States and certainly
in Europe. What do you think iscoming next for WeWork on that
front? How big of a threat isthe fragility of office globally
right now to future expansion,future health, future stability
(14:18):
for the company?
John Santora (14:19):
So we are, depending on the market around
the world, there's a recovery.Two years ago, if you read the
headlines, who would want to ownan office building in New York
City? And in the last fourweeks, there's probably 15
buildings that have traded inthis city alone. The market in
(14:40):
New York alone, 23, almost24,000,000 square feet of new
leases signed in the first ninemonths of the year, on track to
be a record year. So the marketis recovering and New York
always comes back first andbiggest, and we're seeing that
in other markets around theworld.
We're seeing San Franciscobounce back. We're seeing
(15:02):
Toronto is on fire right now. Wedon't have a single seat in
Toronto, we've just taken a newlease down and are building it
out now. London is on its wayback, I was out there two or
three weeks ago. So the marketsare returning, but when I look
out five years or seven years, Iknow I've been in this business
(15:23):
long enough, there's a downturncoming.
We don't know how steep it'llbe, or whether it's five years
or seven years, and worst caseten years, but just look at the
last, look at the last fifteenor twenty years. Alright? Since
the turn of the century, I'll gotwenty five years, February,
02/1978 financial crisis, therewas a blip in the teens there,
(15:47):
and then you had COVID. So ifyou were in a long term lease at
any point there, you you had toput your space out on a
subleasing market. Right?
And you had to write down yourspace. If you had a component,
as I mentioned earlier, 20% or30% of your portfolio is in
flex, that's what you give upwithout having to write down
(16:08):
that expense.
Mark Bonner (16:09):
New York is an interesting case study for the
office because even two or threeyears ago, even a few months
ago, the headlines were reallygloomy around the office market
here. And as you all know, John,a lifetime New Yorker, what
happens in New York can onlyhappen in New York City. And
also what happens in New Yorkcan reverberate around the
world. Right? Does this officemarket being strong at the
(16:31):
moment, although with somefragility underneath it, does
this tell us something abouteverywhere else?
Or is New York still a veryunique place on the planet when
it comes to the office?
John Santora (16:40):
Well, New York is a unique place. There's no
question about it. And it willalways so in a down market, it
will not fall as hard as a lotof markets will. It will also be
the first to bounce back, andthat's what I was kinda
indicating a moment ago. It iswell on its way back, and the
others are following.
(17:00):
Part of what, you know, look, wewe know that AI is driving it,
is driving some of the markets,but look at the financial
institutions where they are,their continued investment in in
office, their continued growthfrom an employee base. Then you
look at all the other servicescoming back. Look at the market
(17:21):
in the last couple of weeks, allthe reports for all the public
companies, they're all strong.Earnings are strong. So yeah,
there's uncertainty that makespeople question what is my next
step, when or if there's goingto be a downturn, but the
numbers are good across theboard.
Mark Bonner (17:40):
You know, the work from home movement is still very
strong, Right? The return tooffice movement is also very
strong, especially from theFortune 500 companies who
desperately want people back inthe office. If you look at the
hybrid statistics, it says thatwe've kind of stagnated in terms
of how fast we're all going togo back to the office. But we're
all not going to work from homeeither. I wonder if you think
(18:01):
WeWork is uniquely positioned tocapture that part of the market
where I don't need the officefive days a week, but maybe I
need it two or three days aweek.
And maybe I don't need mycomplete staff to come in every
Monday, maybe I only needcertain teams to come in on
certain days. WeWork seems likethat would be you'd be in a
great position to capture thatpart of the market. Am I
incorrect?
John Santora (18:21):
Yeah. I think it's an important part of what we
bring to any market. Right? Sothe ability to we're closer
maybe to the train station thanyour headquarters or your main
office is, or we're closer to asuburban market for you. But
that ability for the smallbusiness to say, it's so, you
(18:43):
know, we're gonna come to theoffice two or three days a week,
and they can take the space thatmatches their needs.
Right? And then they can grow alittle bit if more and more
people start to come to theoffice or shrink if they don't.
My personal feeling on return tothe office, and I've always been
a five or six day week in theoffice, but I do think it
(19:06):
settles out long term in fourdays. I think Fridays is always
going to be a flex day foranybody. Come to the office,
don't come to the office, workfrom home, work, you know, from
somewhere else.
But I do think that most firmswill settle on at least four
days.
Mark Bonner (19:24):
And I think Jamie Dimon would agree with you. I
mean, just this week, I think heopened up his $3,000,000,000
headquarters in Midtown, acathedral of in person work. Is
that the future of office orjust an expensive way to
reinvent what Flex alreadydelivers?
John Santora (19:40):
There's only a few firms in the world that can make
a statement like JPMorgan didwith that headquarters. And and
look, it's a wonderful building.It's a commitment to New York.
It's a commitment to office.It's a commitment to to their
firm.
So do I think that there aregoing to be a lot of people that
will build that kind ofheadquarters? There will be some
(20:02):
great headquarters built.There's some scheduled for Park
Avenue, just up the block fromthe JPMorgan headquarters, and
as you go around the world,there certainly are some really
properties that make a statementon behalf of the owners,
Salesforce Tower in SanFrancisco, right? A great space.
We happen to have three floorsin there, the view is
(20:23):
spectacular, and the amenities,but I think there's a place for
headquarters.
And I think if you look at acorporate real estate, there is
a place for headquarters that isyour brand, that is your
statement, But there's also aplace for lease space, and then
there's a place for flex. Andthat's the model, I think, a go
(20:46):
forward basis.
Mark Bonner (20:47):
So for the last few years, it's been hybrid, hybrid,
hybrid. It's been the buzzwordout there. But is anyone really
doing it well in your eyes,John?
John Santora (20:58):
You know what? There are a lot of firms that
are successful with with ahybrid model, and and we see it
within our spaces. Now, I was inChicago, and while we have an
occupancy of around 80% there,on Tuesday the activity was
pretty good, on Wednesday it wasvery good, on Thursday you could
(21:20):
see that you know, we'restarting to fall off. So a lot
of the firms in there were twoor three days a week.
Mark Bonner (21:29):
Everyone for the last few years, especially
coming out of the pandemic, hasbeen arguing about where people
work. I wonder if the realquestion is why they need an
office at all. And we can end onthis track here. As AI reshapes
teams and automation trims trimshead count, how do you define
office demand in that world? Howdo you define office?
(21:51):
How do you define office demandin this think this new world
that we live
John Santora (21:56):
there are in office, there are certain things
that happen that don't happen ona a Zoom call or a Teams call
without question. It's theconversation after the meeting.
It's the conversation before themeeting. It's the conversation
at the coffee bar. Thosecollisions, as you call them in
(22:17):
the space, are where thingshappen, where ideas come about,
where innovation comes about.
And I can't see, and I don'tknow people out there in the
audience or how you feel, Mark,but I wouldn't want my career to
be getting up, leaving mybedroom, and going to sit in my
(22:37):
kitchen, and getting on acomputer. That's not my view of
what life's all about, and howyou're gonna grow your career,
and what I want in life. And Ithink that people that grew up,
the younger some of the youngerpeople who who that's how they
knew work during the pandemicare beginning to realize there's
(22:57):
more out there. Therelationships you build, and you
can you can build them on ascreen, but it's a lot easier
doing this. Why are peoplesitting here?
Right? They can watch us on ascreen somewhere. Why are they
walking around out there? It'sit's innovation. It's
creativity, and humans wanthuman contact.
Mark Bonner (23:16):
I I think I think respectfully, a lot of people
would disagree. I I thinkthere's a there's a different
generation, perhaps millennialson down, who would say, I do
crave place. I do crave placesfor commerce and for socializing
and things of nature, but I alsocrave convenience. I crave not
being able to have to sit intraffic or wait for that subway
(23:37):
that never comes. I crave beingwith my family.
I crave saving money. I thinkthey like both. Right? And
really the jury is still out onthis question, But I have real
skepticism about the fact thatwe're going to go back five days
a week. And I'm really skepticalof we need to be in an office
(23:58):
five days a week in order to besuccessful or to climb the
corporate ladder or to get araise or to get a promotion.
And I and I think, you know, assomeone who runs an all digital
300 person company across fivecountries Yeah. We've been fully
remote since even before thepandemic, and we've made it
work. And certainly, we travelour people a lot more than a lot
(24:20):
of other companies do, and we'retraveling them a lot more to
this day because we want them tobe in person. They're in this
room today, one of our sistercompanies, But I also know that
when I'm negotiating for someoneto join us these days, they
could be someone that's moresenior in their career or mid
career. Nine times out of 10,this question always comes up.
(24:41):
Are you gonna make me go back tothe office? And I actually think
for our business, it's acompetitive advantage for us to
say, no, we won't. We will askyou to come in occasionally. We
will ask you to get on anairplane to parachute into a
city to do a BizNell event or tocover the news as we do. But I I
just I think the genie's out ofthe bottle on this to some
(25:03):
degree.
John Santora (25:03):
Look. As you said, or as I said, I think it ends up
at four days a week. You thinkit's just a couple of days a
week. I look at getting on thatplane. That's the same as going
to the office.
Oh, sure. Right? You're gettingon a plane, you're going to see
somebody, you're going to seethem face to face, that's your
interaction. Right? And that's,to me, that's the purpose of why
(25:26):
I go to an office and why I Ilook for people to be in our
office.
I also understand that life getsin the way, and I tell my teams
this, that you have childcare,you have, you know, adult care,
you have doctor's appointments,you have things that happen that
you need to work from home, youhave the freedom to do that. And
(25:47):
I think you should always havethose freedoms. I didn't have
that growing up. Yeah. Right?
I mean, we had to be in theoffice. That's what you were
expected to be in the office,but where was my phone? My phone
was in the office. Where are myfiles? I'm in my office.
So it is a bit it is a differentworld today. I carry that all on
my phone. Right? I can accessanything, but I still believe
(26:09):
that there is an important partof the of of the model of the
growth and of your personaldevelopment that comes with
being with people face to face.I So disagree with you on that.
Mark Bonner (26:23):
Yep. Yeah. Sure. And friends can disagree. We're
at Cretech.
Your predecessor said thatWeWork was a technology company.
You have said that WeWork is areal estate company. I think
you've been proven correct.Right? You've been very
successful in the comebackjourney.
But let's talk about technology.Yeah. What factor does that play
(26:43):
in day to day operations forWeWork? I think we're all
familiar with the check-inprocess and all the other
technology that WeWork has, andit's very powerful and it's been
replicated across the industry.What are you excited about in
the next few years with in termsof technology and your tech
stack?
John Santora (27:00):
So so we are I'd say that we are a real estate
company that's technologyenabled. And all firms, you
know, are today or move arecertainly moving in a direction
that the technology enables yourfirm productive, to operate and
(27:22):
be productive, right? I mean, wewere the first and continue to
be the ability to check-in. Yougo online with an app, you
reserve an office, you reserve aconference room, you reserve a
desk anywhere in the world,right? I mean, that's that's one
of our important technologies.
The ability to to walk into aconference room and just tie
(27:43):
into that screen and hit abutton and you're on your Zoom
calls and all that. But that'sto me, that's basic. Right?
That's that's so when I look outover the next couple of years,
that is basic. That's that'sthat we we all need to have
whether you're in a WeWorkoffice or you're in JPMorgan's
headquarters or anywhere else.
(28:03):
Where is the future going? Look,I mean there's AI all over the
place, right? I get hit with 30to 50 emails, LinkedIn messages,
or phone calls a day about wehave this product, we have this
AI product, you know, we havethis. First of all, our
(28:25):
partnership, our ownership withYorty. Yardi is building a whole
bunch of a is is working on awhole bunch of AI initiatives
that we're testing some of themas well.
Of course, and everything forquestions, if people wanna sign
up for an all access pass orrenew their, you know, renew
(28:49):
their membership and all that.Handling questions around the
spaces. But it's much more thanthat, right? That's the simple
piece. The ability to doresearch and so forth is key.
But we're walking slowly. And bythe way, mean that's kind of
(29:11):
where I am. Part of what thisturnaround is about for WeWork,
I'm very disciplined in ourinvestment, very disciplined in
taking a new space. Every deal,every major deal we sign up with
a member is has to beprofitable. It's also the way
I'm approaching AI and I'mapproaching technology going
forward.
(29:32):
There's gonna be some greatthings. We're gonna roll out
some fabulous products over thenext couple of years, but we're
gonna do it when it's right atthe right pace, and we're not
gonna waste a whole bunch ofmoney along the way.
Mark Bonner (29:43):
Can you tease us conceptually on what some of
that might be?
John Santora (29:48):
I think it's it's different technology and ways
you can use our space, the wayour spaces can transform, how
you access our spaces, andwhat's within them. And I think
where our spaces are located.And when we get there, maybe
I'll give you the exclusive onthat to roll out. But there's
(30:09):
gonna be some real creativethings that'll come out of it.
Call me.
Check it
Mark Bonner (30:12):
out of business now. Yeah. Let's talk about Gen
Z just for a moment through theprism of technology. Gen Z, the
most well educated, largest,most tech enabled generation is
hitting the economy right now,the strongest economy in the
world. Mhmm.
Their demands for technology aredifferent than millennials
before them and certainly babyboomers before us. How are you
(30:36):
thinking through that? Do youhave people on your team that
are thinking through what doesGen Z want? What did these 20
people need from WeWork thatperhaps someone my age or
perhaps even an older generationmay not necessarily need.
John Santora (30:53):
Yeah, so I started a future of work group within
WeWork, whereas different, as Isaid, I get 50 emails, LinkedIn
messages a day with newtechnologies, new ways of
(31:14):
working, new things to add toour spaces. So that's what that
group is about, and they are theGen Z. So it's going to them
because what I look at and say,why would we have this in our
spaces? They may look at it andsay, we absolutely need it. And
there's, you talk about the waythey use technology is there's a
(31:38):
level of impatience, right?
It's got to be as fast aslightning. They've got be able
to have it, right?
Mark Bonner (31:43):
They're fickle and they'll move on.
John Santora (31:45):
Yeah, exactly.
Mark Bonner (31:46):
I mean, you know, even even for a company like
BizNow, you know, they love us.They don't love us. And they
move on to something else, thenthey come back. Is that is that
something that you have to thinkthrough in terms of the the
WeWork platform?
John Santora (31:59):
We have to, and we have to, especially in the sign
up process. Right? And wheninformation is requested about,
you know, I'm looking for xnumber of seats in this market.
If our people and our systemsare responding back within, you
know, within minutes, they're onto the next one. You know?
(32:22):
Mhmm. So so we need thateverything that we build going
forward, everything we havegoing forward has to be speed,
consistency, and, you know, fromthat perspective.
Mark Bonner (32:34):
You know, the the other thing too, and this is not
this is not necessarily truejust for Gen Z. I think it's
true for probably your entirecustomer base, which is, you
know, when WeWork first cameout, it was very amenities rich.
Right? Beer on tap, kombucha ontap, beanbag chairs, really cool
design and layout. It had avibe, a youthful vibe.
(32:55):
Office is in an amenities war.This $3,000,000,000 HQ that
Jamie Dimon just built, that ispart of the amenities war. That
is a class double double atrophy office, maybe one of the
most globally significantoffices to open in the world in
the last ten How to 20 do younavigate the amenities war,
(33:17):
through the prism of WeWork?
John Santora (33:19):
So we need to have we know we need to have
amenities within our spaces. AsI said, we're spending 80 to
$100,000,000 a year in ourspaces to upgrade them. That's
in addition to the new spacesthat we're building. We our our
model works. We've tweaked it.
I mean, you know, there's not asmany pool tables around. The
(33:40):
beer taps aren't here in TheStates. They are in other
markets around the world forlots of reasons. Right? But it's
all about convenience andamenities.
We continue to look at what weshould add to them, whether it's
pilates classes in the morningor at night, where does the gym
fit in, does the gym fit inwithin our space, should it be
(34:01):
somewhere in a building, shouldwe offer some kind of discount
to the gym that's across thestreet. And we have lots of
data, and I'm sure heads of realestate here have lots of data
around that as to what theirpeople want and use, and the
same thing from our perspective.You can't just build everything
because a lot of people don'twant it. Walk into some of these
(34:23):
amenities in these officebuildings where people didn't
use data and they have gyms.Well, you find out that, yeah,
it's nice that you have thischeap gym in your building, but
everybody wants to go to Equinoxwhere all their buddies are.
So nobody's in the gym and youjust spent $8,000,000 and took
out 10,000 square feet of anoffice building to put in the
(34:44):
gym. You put in some fabulousrestaurant in there that only
the senior executives of thecompany can afford to go eat in,
And you wonder why it's emptybecause they're still going to
their place they go to see alltheir friends all the time.
Right? So you have to look atthe data. You have to understand
what what your what our memberswant or what your tenants want.
(35:07):
And we do that intensely.
Mark Bonner (35:08):
Imagine it's very difficult to make a decision on
something like that just becausethat affects your margin. And
you're making a bet sometimes ona trend, a trend that may not be
with us in three or four months'time. I look at pickleball as
one of those things that couldeither stay with us much like a
lot of other big sports, or itcould fade away like
racquetball. Ever heard ofracquetball? Right?
John Santora (35:28):
You know
Mark Bonner (35:28):
what I mean? That's not your racquetball. Do you
have a research and developmentarm within WeWork full of elves
that are thinking about what arethe next trends that are real
trends and what are fake trends?Is that how you guys make
decisions about what amenitiesmatter?
John Santora (35:43):
As I said, I have this this one group, but but
that's what our leaders aredoing around the world. They're
looking at trends, they'refeeding information in, our
systems are capturing how ourspaces get used. We also have,
you know, we have our surveysthat come in from our members,
and part of that process is whatare they looking for, what else
(36:04):
do they need. But there is alsoa dollar component of that. How
much do we spend, how much do wereinvest, and is it worth it?
Mark Bonner (36:13):
Okay. We're going to go to questions in about two
and a half minutes here. Got twomore questions for you, John,
before we get there. So pleaseget your questions ready. If you
had total freedom in capital,what's the moonshot for WeWork?
Global partner network? Is itsome new product? Is it a
platform that powers flex foreveryone? How do you view this?
John Santora (36:34):
So we already have our global partner network,
we're rolling that out, andwe'll continue to grow off of
that. If I had an unlimitedbudget, boy, I think I think it
has to do with how muchtechnology then that's where I'd
be testing the latest andgreatest technology. Right? All
(36:55):
the cool stuff that's going on.Some of the stuff you see out
here.
Some of the stuff you'll see atCSE in in Vegas at in in
January. But look, right now,and with the capital dollars we
have, it's upgrading the spaceswe have. We're happy where we
are. Our locations are greatlocations. Our spaces need to be
(37:20):
upgraded in some cases.
Could I use a little moretechnology? Could I use video
conferencing in every conferenceroom? Sure. But there's not a
whole lot that I would change.
Mark Bonner (37:31):
John, how often are you in a typical WeWork, let's
call it a suburban locationsomewhere in America, where
you're just there working. Andwhat do you see when you look
out into the main room of aWeWork? Like, what notes do you
take to yourself as you observeyour users?
John Santora (37:49):
So, I love walking through our spaces. How often am
I in it? So, I'd say it's atleast twice a week, but it's
probably more on average,because when I travel, it's, you
know, it's for the full fivedays that I'm in the spaces.
Excuse me. What do I see?
I love going into some of ourspaces in San Francisco, going
(38:11):
to some of our spaces downtownhere, where there's so many AI
firms. We have two twenty AIfirms in our spaces around the
world. And you see them writingon the glass, right, and they're
writing their formulas, andthere's people on the other side
that maybe are with their firmor with another firm, and
they're making comments back. Ilove to see that interaction. I
(38:35):
like to see what's happening inour community areas where, you
know, where the coffee is andthe food is, and I just sit back
and watch and see how theinteraction happens.
And then I'll just go over andtalk to somebody. Like if you
were sitting over, you know,having a cup of coffee, I might
just walk over and say, so whatdo you think about this space?
(38:55):
Are you in any other WeWorks? Isthis your home space? And just
hear and get the feedback frompeople because there's nothing
better than that instantfeedback as to what's good and
what's bad.
Are they shocked when theyrealize that you're the CEO?
Sometimes I don't even tell themwho I am. Just kinda was on the
phone today with a member whohas sick who had six seats and
(39:19):
they're leaving us, and youknow, he flipped me a little
note and he had a he had alittle complaint as to why he
was leaving. I picked up thephone and I called him. And he
was like shocked.
He said, you really care? Isaid, I do. So whether it's six
people or 60 or 600, it mattersto me why you're leaving because
that means I could have donesomething better.
Mark Bonner (39:41):
Okay. Final question before we go to the
audience. When you look back onyour tenure one day in the
future, what do you hope will besaid about your time at WeWork?
Not just for coworking and flexand the comeback story, but for
the broader office market. Whatdo you hope your legacy will be?
John Santora (39:59):
I'd like the legacy to be that I've left the
company, I've passed the companyon with a solid foundation of
great talent, future talent,financially sound, and we've
made an impact in those keymarkets around the world, and as
(40:20):
we continue to look at ourmember roster, they are, some of
the biggest and best firms inthe world, but we still have
those two and three person firmsthat are going to be the future
Googles or Amazons or whatever.I think that model just works.
That piece is just so importantthat we have all of that.
Mark Bonner (40:44):
There's a microphone to my left, your
right, if you're out in theaudience. Any questions for
WeWork CEO, John Santora?
John Santora (40:54):
Yeah. It's it's gonna be hard to see because his
lights are
Audience (40:58):
Hello. Hi. I'm Isabel Raphaelian. We're the
manufacturers of Topos,Sensoride, other consumer
products. As an occupier, we didtry the flex space solution for
a small field sales team in theMidwest, and everything was
(41:18):
working wonderful for us untilthe operator, not WeWork,
another operator Yeah.
Decided to sell the building toa real estate developer. And we
were essentially told, get outby November. So this caused not
only a major distraction to thesales team, but a major scramble
(41:41):
for me to try to find thesepeople space, appropriate office
space, in a matter of a coupleof months. So what would you say
to large companies like us whoare willing to really look into
the flex space model, but weneed a guarantee that our people
(42:02):
are not going to be disruptedjust because somebody sells a
building.
John Santora (42:08):
What a great question, and it actually One of
the things that I saw andcontinue to see is when WeWork
went through its troubles andwhen we walked away or were able
to negotiate out of a wholebunch of buildings, what the
team did was hold the hands ofthose members and either place
(42:31):
them in our other spaces ornegotiate on their behalf with
landlords for them to stay. AndI thought that was just
absolutely amazing. And that'show we retained a whole bunch of
our members, and continued tobring members back that had been
with us that had left. So, Iwould say, yes, it is a bit of a
(42:54):
risk you take, but all thebenefits you get from it, so is
it worth that risk? Key is whenyou're with a brand that will
continue to take care of youeven if we're not in that
market, and negotiate on yourbehalf and get you moved in
somewhere else.
But so, yeah, look, it'sdifficult, but I think that's
(43:18):
important. It can happen thesame way though when a building
falls into receivership andcontinues through its problems
that you have to move out, notbecause you're being thrown out,
but you're not getting theservices.
Audience (43:31):
Thank you very much.
John Santora (43:32):
You're welcome.
Audience (43:36):
Hi. Thanks for the session. My name
is Joe Allen. I'm a professor healthy materials, and
(43:57):
the technology over the realtime indoor air quality
monitoring.
So I'm curious where WeWork is in this movement
towards healthy indoor air, not
just things that look great, and also applying that
tech layer
John Santora (44:10):
Yeah, thank you. First off, there's only a
handful of companies that can dowhat they did within their
space. I said it before, thecost of that most companies
could never touch. But wecontinue to look at and upgrade,
and that's part of that 80 to$100,000,000 in our upgrades, is
(44:33):
to invest back in our systems,particularly in our air
conditioning systems, ourfiltering systems, our water
systems throughout our space.But it's a continued challenge
to invest back into spaces likethat.
Mark Bonner (44:51):
It's a beautiful building, by the way.
John Santora (44:53):
I ride my bike, buy it
Mark Bonner (44:54):
every single day. Spectacular. Yeah, it is.
Absolutely spectacular.Spectacular.
Other questions from theaudience?
Audience (45:01):
Oh. Hi, my name is Darlene Ho. I was the former
head of Smart Buildings andDigital Workplace for WeWork.
John Santora (45:07):
Yep. I still carry
Audience (45:08):
my WeWork water bottle with me every day.
John Santora (45:10):
Great.
Audience (45:10):
So I have two questions for you. First
question is, does WeWork stillhave a no meat policy? And
second question, back when I ledSmart Buildings where we were,
we were known as a technologycompany. And I know now it's a
real estate company powered bytechnology. But what is your
commitment and priority fortechnology, smart buildings,
(45:34):
healthy buildings, and were anyof those plans actually
implemented after the fall?
John Santora (45:42):
So our client dinner the other night in
Chicago was in the steakhouse,so that should answer that first
question. And as far as thetechnology and continuing to
invest in smart buildings, someof that is in place, you know
that. We keep up what was inplace. We're investing in it as
(46:05):
we build out our new spaces, butagain, this is a balance of how
much we can spend, where wespend it, and what the ultimate
outcome is. You know, if we wentback to the question of if I had
an unlimited budget, sure,absolutely, but you know, I've
got to balance that.
But some of it is still inplace, we continue to invest in
(46:26):
and maintain that.
Audience (46:28):
And I do want to say thank you, John. You're doing an
amazing job. I still firmlybelieve in the model.
John Santora (46:33):
You. Thank you.
Audience (46:39):
Hi, Larry Charlopp. I'm director of real estate for
Roku. We are in several WeWork'sand other providers. And one of
the challenges we have inservice provider offices in
general is consistency ofdelivery. And again, as Darlene
said, I commend you on the workthat you've done with WeWork and
the brand and trying to bring itback.
(47:02):
Even within the WeWork brand,there are corporate WeWork
locations, there are franchiselocations when you get outside
The US, and there is a drasticexperiential difference between
a franchise and a corporateWeWork, which we experience as
well. What are the plans to tryto align that as you look to
(47:22):
bring more companies into yourenterprise offerings, who are
looking for that consistency?
John Santora (47:29):
Yeah, that's a challenge, and I'll tell you one
of the things I did early on inthe process is had already,
WeWork had already spun off acouple into franchises, and the
firm was going to spin off allour LATAM business, as well as a
(47:49):
couple other markets around theworld, and they immediately
stopped that. I said, if we'regoing to be a global firm, it is
hard enough to operate in Braziland Colombia and Chile and
Mexico when you actually own it,and you can drive that
consistency. If you move it to afranchise, the ability to
(48:09):
control that is so much harder.So, I am in that process of
building strong relationshipswith our franchisees, and hoping
that I can get that consistentmodel. But it's a bit of a
challenge, but we have tied, sonow we have a call every other
(48:32):
Wednesday with our Indianoperations, so that we're
consistent in who they'reworking with, making sure that
they talk, you know, making surethat we know what's happening
there, what firms, firms we haveobviously relationships with
here.
It's still a challenge, andwe'll continue to work through
(48:53):
that challenge. It's hard, and Iapologize for that lack of
consistency, but it is one ofthose things we continue to work
on. Yes. I had an interestingconversation today about another
client.
Mark Bonner (49:16):
Okay. I think that's it. Well, John, thank you
so much for a wonderfulconversation.
John Santora (49:21):
Mark, thank Thanks, everyone.
You're listening to a special edition of First Draft
Live. This week, I took thestage at CREtech in New York
City to interview WeWork CEO,John Santora, live from the
Javits Center in front of morethan 3,000 real estate pros.
WeWork's resurrection might bethe most unlikely comeback in
modern real estate. Frombankruptcy court to
(00:26):
profitability, $2,200,000,000 inrevenue, and a membership roster
that includes nearly half of theFortune one hundred. This
conversation actually droppedtwenty four hours earlier for
the first draft Insider Accesssubscriber.
That's our daily briefing forpeople who want to see what's
next in commercial real estatebefore everyone else. You can
(00:46):
join them now for $9 a month atbisnow.com/firstdraft. That's
bisnow.com/firstdraft. Now let'shead to the stage. So, John, I
wanna start at the beginninghere.
You know, few companies incommercial real estate or
technology have lived this storyas dramatic as WeWork. It went
(01:08):
from explosive growth to a nearmythical crash and then emerged
from bankruptcy with a cleanbalance sheet and new
leadership. You stepped inafter, let's call it, he who
shall not be named era. Andtoday, the numbers tell a
completely different story.You've been EBITDA positive
since Q4 twenty twenty four.
(01:28):
You did over $2,200,000,000 inrevenue last year. You have
550,000 members, including 47 ofthe Fortune 104,000 enterprise
companies. Occupancy is 77%globally, above 80% in several
markets, 90% in MidtownManhattan, and 100% in places
(01:51):
like Salesforce Tower in SanFrancisco and 1 Central Plaza in
Dublin. There are literally nofull floors left in New York
right outside the doors of theJavits Center. You even brought
your Latin America businessfully back in house, and now
you're preparing to roll out aslew of new products and
partnerships in 2026.
(02:12):
In case you didn't know, WeWorkisn't just a real estate story
anymore. It's a global stresstest for how tech and human
behavior coexist at work. Butlet's start at the beginning. I
don't think a lot of people knowthis, but you spent decades in
commercial real estate, namelyat Cushman and Wakefield, where
I believe you spent forty sevenyears. Brokerage, global
(02:33):
services, now you're CEO of oneof the most storied brands in
the industry.
But John, I want you to behonest with everyone in this
room. When you first walked intoWeWork, what was the energy in
the room like?
John Santora (02:45):
What was the?
Mark Bonner (02:46):
What was the energy in the room like when you first
walked into WeWork?
John Santora (02:49):
Wow. So you used all my stats to start with,
Mark, so I don't know what I'mgonna say during the the next
forty five minutes, but energyin the room was a group that was
just coming through bankruptcy,exiting bankruptcy, and as I
said, as I talked to the group,you've got a lawyer on one
shoulder and an accountant onthe other shoulder and the whole
(03:11):
decision making process. So itwas from my perspective, it was
to bring new life, new energy,put all that behind the team,
and we had to move forward.
Mark Bonner (03:24):
WeWork was always more than square feet though. It
was a vibe. How do you rebuild aculture after a company's been
through that kind of turbulencelike this one has been?
John Santora (03:33):
So I look at the team was really committed. They
and you think about the process.They went through this two and a
half year process of bankruptcy,right? The falling down, the
coming out, and they needed anew start. But they were
committed to the company andcommitted to the legacy of that
(03:55):
that community vibe within ourspaces.
Our spaces and our communitymembers were always so important
and continue to be so importantabout the culture of WeWork and
what our members see and feeleach and every day.
Mark Bonner (04:11):
I mean, look, you spent nearly fifty years in
commercial real estate. Youcould have chosen so many safer
options. This was one of thebiggest messes in all of
capitalism. Right? This washeadline news all around the
world.
Why did you want to go get intothis mess? What did you see that
(04:32):
everyone else didn't see at thatmoment in time?
John Santora (04:35):
Well, first of all, yes, I've spent forty seven
years in commercial real estateand when I looked at this and I
reached out to Anad Jardy as hemade the acquisition at a
bankruptcy, I said to him, Anna,you you acquired a real estate
firm. And he said to me, Ithought it was a tech firm. I
said, no, it's a real estatefirm. So, I knew I was coming
(04:57):
into the real estate firm andthat's where I came from. Right?
That's where I was grounded myentire career and all aspects of
it. But the choice to do that,part of it was it's a turnaround
story. And it was an excitingway as I look at it for the next
(05:18):
phase of my career orpotentially, you know, my last
phase of my career. But I wantedto take that on because WeWork,
the brand, and the flexible realestate market are so important
to everyone out there, soimportant to the real estate
industry, to heads of realestate, and to the future, I
(05:42):
think, of the real estatebusiness.
Mark Bonner (05:44):
When you first walked in there though, I'm sure
there was a lot of legacythinking. There was a lot of
infrastructure that was a legacyof the past. Perhaps you came in
to the situation with your ownlegacy thinking. How did you
cross that chasm?
John Santora (06:03):
I think, yes, there's some legacy thinking.
There was some legacy systemsand ways of doing things. But I
brought the team together andsaid this is a new day. And it's
a new day and we need to goforward. We can't be thinking
back.
I don't want at this table,well, this is how we always did
it, or this is the way we do it.It's how do we move forward?
(06:27):
What's our what's our next stepforward? How do we change things
while still keeping the basicprinciple of community, of great
space, and a flexible realestate.
Mark Bonner (06:40):
Turning a profit was the big headline. The
comeback story is real. We'veall read the story. But what's
the story underneath it? Where'sthe margin actually coming from
right now?
Pricing, efficiencies,technology?
John Santora (06:52):
No, it's not coming from technology. It's
coming from our spaces, from theoccupancy level, and where we
are. So today, we're now in aposition of strength. Right?
We've restructured theportfolio.
We have no debt. We're investingbetween 80 and a $100,000,000 in
our space this year, a similaramount last year. We know that
(07:16):
on a go forward basis, we needto spend that money to keep our
spaces up to date, to continueto advance them forward, to
bring in new technology, and tocreate to continue to create
spaces that our members wanna bein the places they wanna be
around the world.
Mark Bonner (07:34):
So beyond the financial metrics, what are the
user or product signals thattell you this model is working?
Engagement, retention, is itexpansion, is it traditional
real estate, getting more squarefootage, new markets? Where's
your eye at on that kind
John Santora (07:49):
of stuff? Look, we handle from one to 10,000, or
one to 1,000 are the same. Butthat entrepreneur, and the AI
entrepreneur in many cases nowaround the world, needs that
five seats, 10 seats as they'rebuilding up their company. We
also handle, you know, spacesfor the 50 seats, that small
(08:11):
business in a market. And thenwe have the enterprise system.
So we have 47, the Fortune 100,but we have so many firms that
look to us to be their a part oftheir real estate platform.
Today, a real estate head ofreal estate is looking at 20 to
30% of their portfolio flexiblefor lots of reasons, and we can
(08:34):
go into that in a minute. So youhave that enterprise model, and
then the newest part of that isactually building out space and
committing to a number of yearsfor that enterprise client. So
anybody who's spent any timehere in New York has seen over
the last year what we've done,the headlines around Amazon. So
(08:55):
here in New York, as they returnto office and around, you know,
other parts of The United Statesand even other parts of the
world.
So a big portfolio. But we'vecontinued to do that with a
number of different enterpriseclients. We just did one in
Toronto for 25,000 square feetfor a spin off of a pharma
(09:15):
company. So we're working onthat deal now. I was on the
phone today with with twosignificant world financial
banks around spaces, one here inThe US and one over in Europe.
So continuing to look at thatmodel, we've got a couple that
we've done in the West Coast.The other piece of that model is
(09:39):
some of these firms, especiallythe spin off firms and some of
the technology firms, need theircapital to invest in their
products, to invest in research.So we'll put the capital up on
the space to build out thespace.
Mark Bonner (09:54):
You have so many other competitors today than the
company had at its verybeginning. Some people would say
that WeWork invented coworking.Or it was, at least for most
people, their first interactionwith that sort of model. Fast
forward to today, there are manymore competitors on the playing
field. Some are traditionalcompetitors.
We won't get into those namebrands. And then some of them
(10:16):
are not traditional players whoare trying to adopt coworking or
flex into their business model.What makes WeWork different? Why
should anyone sign a short termlease with WeWork when they
could work with a galaxy ofother competitors on the playing
field?
John Santora (10:32):
So, yeah, there is a there is a broad base of
competitors, people that dabblein it, people that are committed
to it from a big scale that arethat have a broad platform. But
for us, as I said, we're theonly company that can handle
that small user, and we'regeared to that, but we can also
handle the biggest in the worldand find the space for them. The
(10:54):
other thing is our marketpresence. Right? 37 countries
around the world, 600 locationsthat are 45,000,000 square feet,
600 locations that are ours,another thousand here in The
States that are alliancemembers, and an additional
thousand internationally that'llbe rolled out by the end of the
(11:15):
year.
So it's a broad based platform,and it's the consistent delivery
in each and every one of thosemarkets around the world. You
know when you walk into a WeWorkspace, you're greeted by that
community that communitymanager, that community
associate. You see and feel thespace, the welcoming that's
(11:36):
there. That's a model that'svery difficult to duplicate.
Mark Bonner (11:40):
I mean, you know, lots of landlords are now saying
flex is a must have, quoteunquote, and everyone is racing
to build their own version ofwhat we were kicked off many,
many years ago. What's yourhonest reaction when you see
traditional owners trying to dowhat you do?
John Santora (11:55):
I didn't hear that. Is your
Mark Bonner (11:57):
honest reaction when you see traditional owners
trying to do what you do?
John Santora (12:00):
Well, when I look at the owners trying to do it
now, a lot of owners, we workwith them. We work with them.
But, you know, and and and, youknow, I understand and we all
believe that a a significantpiece of every major office
building should be flexed. Someowners are trying to do it
(12:21):
themselves, others have come tous to do it or some of the other
players, and some have done itthemselves and are now looking
to us to take it to the nextlevel. What we bring is a
platform of, again, globalmembers, 550,000 members.
We bring an all access card,having that black card that you
(12:42):
can access any one of ourlocations around the world. They
will come and use the space ifthey're visiting New York,
they're visiting or they'rebased in downtown, they're going
to Midtown or wherever they maybe. That owner is only capturing
what's around that little pieceof where his office building is.
Mark Bonner (13:01):
You were talking about your enterprise clients.
What are they asking for todaythat they perhaps weren't five
years ago? And does it run onthe lines of tech integrations
or data transparency?
John Santora (13:12):
Right. So what they're asking for is a couple
of things. One, it's speed tomarket. We can do it faster, and
when I was on the other side, Icouldn't believe this, but we do
it faster than any other companycan do it to get you in the
space and get you up andrunning. A lot of what I talked
about earlier, I mentioned withsome of our clients, including
Amazon, It was sixty days thatthey were in the space.
(13:34):
Mhmm. And I challenge anybody tohave that same speed to market.
It's cost, it's the commitment,the capital that we're willing
to do, and yes, the integrationwith our technology is an
important part of that. But somefirms say, sorry, we don't want
your technology, we want to putour own in. And we help them
(13:55):
through that process as well.
Mark Bonner (13:57):
So part of your job is this peer over the horizon.
It's very difficult to do rightnow given where the state of the
office market is, at least inThe United States and certainly
in Europe. What do you think iscoming next for WeWork on that
front? How big of a threat isthe fragility of office globally
right now to future expansion,future health, future stability
(14:18):
for the company?
John Santora (14:19):
So we are, depending on the market around
the world, there's a recovery.Two years ago, if you read the
headlines, who would want to ownan office building in New York
City? And in the last fourweeks, there's probably 15
buildings that have traded inthis city alone. The market in
(14:40):
New York alone, 23, almost24,000,000 square feet of new
leases signed in the first ninemonths of the year, on track to
be a record year. So the marketis recovering and New York
always comes back first andbiggest, and we're seeing that
in other markets around theworld.
We're seeing San Franciscobounce back. We're seeing
(15:02):
Toronto is on fire right now. Wedon't have a single seat in
Toronto, we've just taken a newlease down and are building it
out now. London is on its wayback, I was out there two or
three weeks ago. So the marketsare returning, but when I look
out five years or seven years, Iknow I've been in this business
(15:23):
long enough, there's a downturncoming.
We don't know how steep it'llbe, or whether it's five years
or seven years, and worst caseten years, but just look at the
last, look at the last fifteenor twenty years. Alright? Since
the turn of the century, I'll gotwenty five years, February,
02/1978 financial crisis, therewas a blip in the teens there,
(15:47):
and then you had COVID. So ifyou were in a long term lease at
any point there, you you had toput your space out on a
subleasing market. Right?
And you had to write down yourspace. If you had a component,
as I mentioned earlier, 20% or30% of your portfolio is in
flex, that's what you give upwithout having to write down
(16:08):
that expense.
Mark Bonner (16:09):
New York is an interesting case study for the
office because even two or threeyears ago, even a few months
ago, the headlines were reallygloomy around the office market
here. And as you all know, John,a lifetime New Yorker, what
happens in New York can onlyhappen in New York City. And
also what happens in New Yorkcan reverberate around the
world. Right? Does this officemarket being strong at the
(16:31):
moment, although with somefragility underneath it, does
this tell us something abouteverywhere else?
Or is New York still a veryunique place on the planet when
it comes to the office?
John Santora (16:40):
Well, New York is a unique place. There's no
question about it. And it willalways so in a down market, it
will not fall as hard as a lotof markets will. It will also be
the first to bounce back, andthat's what I was kinda
indicating a moment ago. It iswell on its way back, and the
others are following.
(17:00):
Part of what, you know, look, wewe know that AI is driving it,
is driving some of the markets,but look at the financial
institutions where they are,their continued investment in in
office, their continued growthfrom an employee base. Then you
look at all the other servicescoming back. Look at the market
(17:21):
in the last couple of weeks, allthe reports for all the public
companies, they're all strong.Earnings are strong. So yeah,
there's uncertainty that makespeople question what is my next
step, when or if there's goingto be a downturn, but the
numbers are good across theboard.
Mark Bonner (17:40):
You know, the work from home movement is still very
strong, Right? The return tooffice movement is also very
strong, especially from theFortune 500 companies who
desperately want people back inthe office. If you look at the
hybrid statistics, it says thatwe've kind of stagnated in terms
of how fast we're all going togo back to the office. But we're
all not going to work from homeeither. I wonder if you think
(18:01):
WeWork is uniquely positioned tocapture that part of the market
where I don't need the officefive days a week, but maybe I
need it two or three days aweek.
And maybe I don't need mycomplete staff to come in every
Monday, maybe I only needcertain teams to come in on
certain days. WeWork seems likethat would be you'd be in a
great position to capture thatpart of the market. Am I
incorrect?
John Santora (18:21):
Yeah. I think it's an important part of what we
bring to any market. Right? Sothe ability to we're closer
maybe to the train station thanyour headquarters or your main
office is, or we're closer to asuburban market for you. But
that ability for the smallbusiness to say, it's so, you
(18:43):
know, we're gonna come to theoffice two or three days a week,
and they can take the space thatmatches their needs.
Right? And then they can grow alittle bit if more and more
people start to come to theoffice or shrink if they don't.
My personal feeling on return tothe office, and I've always been
a five or six day week in theoffice, but I do think it
(19:06):
settles out long term in fourdays. I think Fridays is always
going to be a flex day foranybody. Come to the office,
don't come to the office, workfrom home, work, you know, from
somewhere else.
But I do think that most firmswill settle on at least four
days.
Mark Bonner (19:24):
And I think Jamie Dimon would agree with you. I
mean, just this week, I think heopened up his $3,000,000,000
headquarters in Midtown, acathedral of in person work. Is
that the future of office orjust an expensive way to
reinvent what Flex alreadydelivers?
John Santora (19:40):
There's only a few firms in the world that can make
a statement like JPMorgan didwith that headquarters. And and
look, it's a wonderful building.It's a commitment to New York.
It's a commitment to office.It's a commitment to to their
firm.
So do I think that there aregoing to be a lot of people that
will build that kind ofheadquarters? There will be some
(20:02):
great headquarters built.There's some scheduled for Park
Avenue, just up the block fromthe JPMorgan headquarters, and
as you go around the world,there certainly are some really
properties that make a statementon behalf of the owners,
Salesforce Tower in SanFrancisco, right? A great space.
We happen to have three floorsin there, the view is
(20:23):
spectacular, and the amenities,but I think there's a place for
headquarters.
And I think if you look at acorporate real estate, there is
a place for headquarters that isyour brand, that is your
statement, But there's also aplace for lease space, and then
there's a place for flex. Andthat's the model, I think, a go
(20:46):
forward basis.
Mark Bonner (20:47):
So for the last few years, it's been hybrid, hybrid,
hybrid. It's been the buzzwordout there. But is anyone really
doing it well in your eyes,John?
John Santora (20:58):
You know what? There are a lot of firms that
are successful with with ahybrid model, and and we see it
within our spaces. Now, I was inChicago, and while we have an
occupancy of around 80% there,on Tuesday the activity was
pretty good, on Wednesday it wasvery good, on Thursday you could
(21:20):
see that you know, we'restarting to fall off. So a lot
of the firms in there were twoor three days a week.
Mark Bonner (21:29):
Everyone for the last few years, especially
coming out of the pandemic, hasbeen arguing about where people
work. I wonder if the realquestion is why they need an
office at all. And we can end onthis track here. As AI reshapes
teams and automation trims trimshead count, how do you define
office demand in that world? Howdo you define office?
(21:51):
How do you define office demandin this think this new world
that we live
John Santora (21:56):
there are in office, there are certain things
that happen that don't happen ona a Zoom call or a Teams call
without question. It's theconversation after the meeting.
It's the conversation before themeeting. It's the conversation
at the coffee bar. Thosecollisions, as you call them in
(22:17):
the space, are where thingshappen, where ideas come about,
where innovation comes about.
And I can't see, and I don'tknow people out there in the
audience or how you feel, Mark,but I wouldn't want my career to
be getting up, leaving mybedroom, and going to sit in my
(22:37):
kitchen, and getting on acomputer. That's not my view of
what life's all about, and howyou're gonna grow your career,
and what I want in life. And Ithink that people that grew up,
the younger some of the youngerpeople who who that's how they
knew work during the pandemicare beginning to realize there's
(22:57):
more out there. Therelationships you build, and you
can you can build them on ascreen, but it's a lot easier
doing this. Why are peoplesitting here?
Right? They can watch us on ascreen somewhere. Why are they
walking around out there? It'sit's innovation. It's
creativity, and humans wanthuman contact.
Mark Bonner (23:16):
I I think I think respectfully, a lot of people
would disagree. I I thinkthere's a there's a different
generation, perhaps millennialson down, who would say, I do
crave place. I do crave placesfor commerce and for socializing
and things of nature, but I alsocrave convenience. I crave not
being able to have to sit intraffic or wait for that subway
(23:37):
that never comes. I crave beingwith my family.
I crave saving money. I thinkthey like both. Right? And
really the jury is still out onthis question, But I have real
skepticism about the fact thatwe're going to go back five days
a week. And I'm really skepticalof we need to be in an office
(23:58):
five days a week in order to besuccessful or to climb the
corporate ladder or to get araise or to get a promotion.
And I and I think, you know, assomeone who runs an all digital
300 person company across fivecountries Yeah. We've been fully
remote since even before thepandemic, and we've made it
work. And certainly, we travelour people a lot more than a lot
(24:20):
of other companies do, and we'retraveling them a lot more to
this day because we want them tobe in person. They're in this
room today, one of our sistercompanies, But I also know that
when I'm negotiating for someoneto join us these days, they
could be someone that's moresenior in their career or mid
career. Nine times out of 10,this question always comes up.
(24:41):
Are you gonna make me go back tothe office? And I actually think
for our business, it's acompetitive advantage for us to
say, no, we won't. We will askyou to come in occasionally. We
will ask you to get on anairplane to parachute into a
city to do a BizNell event or tocover the news as we do. But I I
just I think the genie's out ofthe bottle on this to some
(25:03):
degree.
John Santora (25:03):
Look. As you said, or as I said, I think it ends up
at four days a week. You thinkit's just a couple of days a
week. I look at getting on thatplane. That's the same as going
to the office.
Oh, sure. Right? You're gettingon a plane, you're going to see
somebody, you're going to seethem face to face, that's your
interaction. Right? And that's,to me, that's the purpose of why
(25:26):
I go to an office and why I Ilook for people to be in our
office.
I also understand that life getsin the way, and I tell my teams
this, that you have childcare,you have, you know, adult care,
you have doctor's appointments,you have things that happen that
you need to work from home, youhave the freedom to do that. And
(25:47):
I think you should always havethose freedoms. I didn't have
that growing up. Yeah. Right?
I mean, we had to be in theoffice. That's what you were
expected to be in the office,but where was my phone? My phone
was in the office. Where are myfiles? I'm in my office.
So it is a bit it is a differentworld today. I carry that all on
my phone. Right? I can accessanything, but I still believe
(26:09):
that there is an important partof the of of the model of the
growth and of your personaldevelopment that comes with
being with people face to face.I So disagree with you on that.
Mark Bonner (26:23):
Yep. Yeah. Sure. And friends can disagree. We're
at Cretech.
Your predecessor said thatWeWork was a technology company.
You have said that WeWork is areal estate company. I think
you've been proven correct.Right? You've been very
successful in the comebackjourney.
But let's talk about technology.Yeah. What factor does that play
(26:43):
in day to day operations forWeWork? I think we're all
familiar with the check-inprocess and all the other
technology that WeWork has, andit's very powerful and it's been
replicated across the industry.What are you excited about in
the next few years with in termsof technology and your tech
stack?
John Santora (27:00):
So so we are I'd say that we are a real estate
company that's technologyenabled. And all firms, you
know, are today or move arecertainly moving in a direction
that the technology enables yourfirm productive, to operate and
(27:22):
be productive, right? I mean, wewere the first and continue to
be the ability to check-in. Yougo online with an app, you
reserve an office, you reserve aconference room, you reserve a
desk anywhere in the world,right? I mean, that's that's one
of our important technologies.
The ability to to walk into aconference room and just tie
(27:43):
into that screen and hit abutton and you're on your Zoom
calls and all that. But that'sto me, that's basic. Right?
That's that's so when I look outover the next couple of years,
that is basic. That's that'sthat we we all need to have
whether you're in a WeWorkoffice or you're in JPMorgan's
headquarters or anywhere else.
(28:03):
Where is the future going? Look,I mean there's AI all over the
place, right? I get hit with 30to 50 emails, LinkedIn messages,
or phone calls a day about wehave this product, we have this
AI product, you know, we havethis. First of all, our
(28:25):
partnership, our ownership withYorty. Yardi is building a whole
bunch of a is is working on awhole bunch of AI initiatives
that we're testing some of themas well.
Of course, and everything forquestions, if people wanna sign
up for an all access pass orrenew their, you know, renew
(28:49):
their membership and all that.Handling questions around the
spaces. But it's much more thanthat, right? That's the simple
piece. The ability to doresearch and so forth is key.
But we're walking slowly. And bythe way, mean that's kind of
(29:11):
where I am. Part of what thisturnaround is about for WeWork,
I'm very disciplined in ourinvestment, very disciplined in
taking a new space. Every deal,every major deal we sign up with
a member is has to beprofitable. It's also the way
I'm approaching AI and I'mapproaching technology going
forward.
(29:32):
There's gonna be some greatthings. We're gonna roll out
some fabulous products over thenext couple of years, but we're
gonna do it when it's right atthe right pace, and we're not
gonna waste a whole bunch ofmoney along the way.
Mark Bonner (29:43):
Can you tease us conceptually on what some of
that might be?
John Santora (29:48):
I think it's it's different technology and ways
you can use our space, the wayour spaces can transform, how
you access our spaces, andwhat's within them. And I think
where our spaces are located.And when we get there, maybe
I'll give you the exclusive onthat to roll out. But there's
(30:09):
gonna be some real creativethings that'll come out of it.
Call me.
Check it
Mark Bonner (30:12):
out of business now. Yeah. Let's talk about Gen
Z just for a moment through theprism of technology. Gen Z, the
most well educated, largest,most tech enabled generation is
hitting the economy right now,the strongest economy in the
world. Mhmm.
Their demands for technology aredifferent than millennials
before them and certainly babyboomers before us. How are you
(30:36):
thinking through that? Do youhave people on your team that
are thinking through what doesGen Z want? What did these 20
people need from WeWork thatperhaps someone my age or
perhaps even an older generationmay not necessarily need.
John Santora (30:53):
Yeah, so I started a future of work group within
WeWork, whereas different, as Isaid, I get 50 emails, LinkedIn
messages a day with newtechnologies, new ways of
(31:14):
working, new things to add toour spaces. So that's what that
group is about, and they are theGen Z. So it's going to them
because what I look at and say,why would we have this in our
spaces? They may look at it andsay, we absolutely need it. And
there's, you talk about the waythey use technology is there's a
(31:38):
level of impatience, right?
It's got to be as fast aslightning. They've got be able
to have it, right?
Mark Bonner (31:43):
They're fickle and they'll move on.
John Santora (31:45):
Yeah, exactly.
Mark Bonner (31:46):
I mean, you know, even even for a company like
BizNow, you know, they love us.They don't love us. And they
move on to something else, thenthey come back. Is that is that
something that you have to thinkthrough in terms of the the
WeWork platform?
John Santora (31:59):
We have to, and we have to, especially in the sign
up process. Right? And wheninformation is requested about,
you know, I'm looking for xnumber of seats in this market.
If our people and our systemsare responding back within, you
know, within minutes, they're onto the next one. You know?
(32:22):
Mhmm. So so we need thateverything that we build going
forward, everything we havegoing forward has to be speed,
consistency, and, you know, fromthat perspective.
Mark Bonner (32:34):
You know, the the other thing too, and this is not
this is not necessarily truejust for Gen Z. I think it's
true for probably your entirecustomer base, which is, you
know, when WeWork first cameout, it was very amenities rich.
Right? Beer on tap, kombucha ontap, beanbag chairs, really cool
design and layout. It had avibe, a youthful vibe.
(32:55):
Office is in an amenities war.This $3,000,000,000 HQ that
Jamie Dimon just built, that ispart of the amenities war. That
is a class double double atrophy office, maybe one of the
most globally significantoffices to open in the world in
the last ten How to 20 do younavigate the amenities war,
(33:17):
through the prism of WeWork?
John Santora (33:19):
So we need to have we know we need to have
amenities within our spaces. AsI said, we're spending 80 to
$100,000,000 a year in ourspaces to upgrade them. That's
in addition to the new spacesthat we're building. We our our
model works. We've tweaked it.
I mean, you know, there's not asmany pool tables around. The
(33:40):
beer taps aren't here in TheStates. They are in other
markets around the world forlots of reasons. Right? But it's
all about convenience andamenities.
We continue to look at what weshould add to them, whether it's
pilates classes in the morningor at night, where does the gym
fit in, does the gym fit inwithin our space, should it be
(34:01):
somewhere in a building, shouldwe offer some kind of discount
to the gym that's across thestreet. And we have lots of
data, and I'm sure heads of realestate here have lots of data
around that as to what theirpeople want and use, and the
same thing from our perspective.You can't just build everything
because a lot of people don'twant it. Walk into some of these
(34:23):
amenities in these officebuildings where people didn't
use data and they have gyms.Well, you find out that, yeah,
it's nice that you have thischeap gym in your building, but
everybody wants to go to Equinoxwhere all their buddies are.
So nobody's in the gym and youjust spent $8,000,000 and took
out 10,000 square feet of anoffice building to put in the
(34:44):
gym. You put in some fabulousrestaurant in there that only
the senior executives of thecompany can afford to go eat in,
And you wonder why it's emptybecause they're still going to
their place they go to see alltheir friends all the time.
Right? So you have to look atthe data. You have to understand
what what your what our memberswant or what your tenants want.
(35:07):
And we do that intensely.
Mark Bonner (35:08):
Imagine it's very difficult to make a decision on
something like that just becausethat affects your margin. And
you're making a bet sometimes ona trend, a trend that may not be
with us in three or four months'time. I look at pickleball as
one of those things that couldeither stay with us much like a
lot of other big sports, or itcould fade away like
racquetball. Ever heard ofracquetball? Right?
John Santora (35:28):
You know
Mark Bonner (35:28):
what I mean? That's not your racquetball. Do you
have a research and developmentarm within WeWork full of elves
that are thinking about what arethe next trends that are real
trends and what are fake trends?Is that how you guys make
decisions about what amenitiesmatter?
John Santora (35:43):
As I said, I have this this one group, but but
that's what our leaders aredoing around the world. They're
looking at trends, they'refeeding information in, our
systems are capturing how ourspaces get used. We also have,
you know, we have our surveysthat come in from our members,
and part of that process is whatare they looking for, what else
(36:04):
do they need. But there is alsoa dollar component of that. How
much do we spend, how much do wereinvest, and is it worth it?
Mark Bonner (36:13):
Okay. We're going to go to questions in about two
and a half minutes here. Got twomore questions for you, John,
before we get there. So pleaseget your questions ready. If you
had total freedom in capital,what's the moonshot for WeWork?
Global partner network? Is itsome new product? Is it a
platform that powers flex foreveryone? How do you view this?
John Santora (36:34):
So we already have our global partner network,
we're rolling that out, andwe'll continue to grow off of
that. If I had an unlimitedbudget, boy, I think I think it
has to do with how muchtechnology then that's where I'd
be testing the latest andgreatest technology. Right? All
(36:55):
the cool stuff that's going on.Some of the stuff you see out
here.
Some of the stuff you'll see atCSE in in Vegas at in in
January. But look, right now,and with the capital dollars we
have, it's upgrading the spaceswe have. We're happy where we
are. Our locations are greatlocations. Our spaces need to be
(37:20):
upgraded in some cases.
Could I use a little moretechnology? Could I use video
conferencing in every conferenceroom? Sure. But there's not a
whole lot that I would change.
Mark Bonner (37:31):
John, how often are you in a typical WeWork, let's
call it a suburban locationsomewhere in America, where
you're just there working. Andwhat do you see when you look
out into the main room of aWeWork? Like, what notes do you
take to yourself as you observeyour users?
John Santora (37:49):
So, I love walking through our spaces. How often am
I in it? So, I'd say it's atleast twice a week, but it's
probably more on average,because when I travel, it's, you
know, it's for the full fivedays that I'm in the spaces.
Excuse me. What do I see?
I love going into some of ourspaces in San Francisco, going
(38:11):
to some of our spaces downtownhere, where there's so many AI
firms. We have two twenty AIfirms in our spaces around the
world. And you see them writingon the glass, right, and they're
writing their formulas, andthere's people on the other side
that maybe are with their firmor with another firm, and
they're making comments back. Ilove to see that interaction. I
(38:35):
like to see what's happening inour community areas where, you
know, where the coffee is andthe food is, and I just sit back
and watch and see how theinteraction happens.
And then I'll just go over andtalk to somebody. Like if you
were sitting over, you know,having a cup of coffee, I might
just walk over and say, so whatdo you think about this space?
(38:55):
Are you in any other WeWorks? Isthis your home space? And just
hear and get the feedback frompeople because there's nothing
better than that instantfeedback as to what's good and
what's bad.
Are they shocked when theyrealize that you're the CEO?
Sometimes I don't even tell themwho I am. Just kinda was on the
phone today with a member whohas sick who had six seats and
(39:19):
they're leaving us, and youknow, he flipped me a little
note and he had a he had alittle complaint as to why he
was leaving. I picked up thephone and I called him. And he
was like shocked.
He said, you really care? Isaid, I do. So whether it's six
people or 60 or 600, it mattersto me why you're leaving because
that means I could have donesomething better.
Mark Bonner (39:41):
Okay. Final question before we go to the
audience. When you look back onyour tenure one day in the
future, what do you hope will besaid about your time at WeWork?
Not just for coworking and flexand the comeback story, but for
the broader office market. Whatdo you hope your legacy will be?
John Santora (39:59):
I'd like the legacy to be that I've left the
company, I've passed the companyon with a solid foundation of
great talent, future talent,financially sound, and we've
made an impact in those keymarkets around the world, and as
(40:20):
we continue to look at ourmember roster, they are, some of
the biggest and best firms inthe world, but we still have
those two and three person firmsthat are going to be the future
Googles or Amazons or whatever.I think that model just works.
That piece is just so importantthat we have all of that.
Mark Bonner (40:44):
There's a microphone to my left, your
right, if you're out in theaudience. Any questions for
WeWork CEO, John Santora?
John Santora (40:54):
Yeah. It's it's gonna be hard to see because his
lights are
Audience (40:58):
Hello. Hi. I'm Isabel Raphaelian. We're the
manufacturers of Topos,Sensoride, other consumer
products. As an occupier, we didtry the flex space solution for
a small field sales team in theMidwest, and everything was
(41:18):
working wonderful for us untilthe operator, not WeWork,
another operator Yeah.
Decided to sell the building toa real estate developer. And we
were essentially told, get outby November. So this caused not
only a major distraction to thesales team, but a major scramble
(41:41):
for me to try to find thesepeople space, appropriate office
space, in a matter of a coupleof months. So what would you say
to large companies like us whoare willing to really look into
the flex space model, but weneed a guarantee that our people
(42:02):
are not going to be disruptedjust because somebody sells a
building.
John Santora (42:08):
What a great question, and it actually One of
the things that I saw andcontinue to see is when WeWork
went through its troubles andwhen we walked away or were able
to negotiate out of a wholebunch of buildings, what the
team did was hold the hands ofthose members and either place
(42:31):
them in our other spaces ornegotiate on their behalf with
landlords for them to stay. AndI thought that was just
absolutely amazing. And that'show we retained a whole bunch of
our members, and continued tobring members back that had been
with us that had left. So, Iwould say, yes, it is a bit of a
(42:54):
risk you take, but all thebenefits you get from it, so is
it worth that risk? Key is whenyou're with a brand that will
continue to take care of youeven if we're not in that
market, and negotiate on yourbehalf and get you moved in
somewhere else.
But so, yeah, look, it'sdifficult, but I think that's
(43:18):
important. It can happen thesame way though when a building
falls into receivership andcontinues through its problems
that you have to move out, notbecause you're being thrown out,
but you're not getting theservices.
Audience (43:31):
Thank you very much.
John Santora (43:32):
You're welcome.
Audience (43:36):
Hi. Thanks for the session. My name
is Joe Allen. I'm a professor healthy materials, and
(43:57):
the technology over the realtime indoor air quality
monitoring.
So I'm curious where WeWork is in this movement
towards healthy indoor air, not
just things that look great, and also applying that
tech layer
John Santora (44:10):
Yeah, thank you. First off, there's only a
handful of companies that can dowhat they did within their
space. I said it before, thecost of that most companies
could never touch. But wecontinue to look at and upgrade,
and that's part of that 80 to$100,000,000 in our upgrades, is
(44:33):
to invest back in our systems,particularly in our air
conditioning systems, ourfiltering systems, our water
systems throughout our space.But it's a continued challenge
to invest back into spaces likethat.
Mark Bonner (44:51):
It's a beautiful building, by the way.
John Santora (44:53):
I ride my bike, buy it
Mark Bonner (44:54):
every single day. Spectacular. Yeah, it is.
Absolutely spectacular.Spectacular.
Other questions from theaudience?
Audience (45:01):
Oh. Hi, my name is Darlene Ho. I was the former
head of Smart Buildings andDigital Workplace for WeWork.
John Santora (45:07):
Yep. I still carry
Audience (45:08):
my WeWork water bottle with me every day.
John Santora (45:10):
Great.
Audience (45:10):
So I have two questions for you. First
question is, does WeWork stillhave a no meat policy? And
second question, back when I ledSmart Buildings where we were,
we were known as a technologycompany. And I know now it's a
real estate company powered bytechnology. But what is your
commitment and priority fortechnology, smart buildings,
(45:34):
healthy buildings, and were anyof those plans actually
implemented after the fall?
John Santora (45:42):
So our client dinner the other night in
Chicago was in the steakhouse,so that should answer that first
question. And as far as thetechnology and continuing to
invest in smart buildings, someof that is in place, you know
that. We keep up what was inplace. We're investing in it as
(46:05):
we build out our new spaces, butagain, this is a balance of how
much we can spend, where wespend it, and what the ultimate
outcome is. You know, if we wentback to the question of if I had
an unlimited budget, sure,absolutely, but you know, I've
got to balance that.
But some of it is still inplace, we continue to invest in
(46:26):
and maintain that.
Audience (46:28):
And I do want to say thank you, John. You're doing an
amazing job. I still firmlybelieve in the model.
John Santora (46:33):
You. Thank you.
Audience (46:39):
Hi, Larry Charlopp. I'm director of real estate for
Roku. We are in several WeWork'sand other providers. And one of
the challenges we have inservice provider offices in
general is consistency ofdelivery. And again, as Darlene
said, I commend you on the workthat you've done with WeWork and
the brand and trying to bring itback.
(47:02):
Even within the WeWork brand,there are corporate WeWork
locations, there are franchiselocations when you get outside
The US, and there is a drasticexperiential difference between
a franchise and a corporateWeWork, which we experience as
well. What are the plans to tryto align that as you look to
(47:22):
bring more companies into yourenterprise offerings, who are
looking for that consistency?
John Santora (47:29):
Yeah, that's a challenge, and I'll tell you one
of the things I did early on inthe process is had already,
WeWork had already spun off acouple into franchises, and the
firm was going to spin off allour LATAM business, as well as a
(47:49):
couple other markets around theworld, and they immediately
stopped that. I said, if we'regoing to be a global firm, it is
hard enough to operate in Braziland Colombia and Chile and
Mexico when you actually own it,and you can drive that
consistency. If you move it to afranchise, the ability to
(48:09):
control that is so much harder.So, I am in that process of
building strong relationshipswith our franchisees, and hoping
that I can get that consistentmodel. But it's a bit of a
challenge, but we have tied, sonow we have a call every other
(48:32):
Wednesday with our Indianoperations, so that we're
consistent in who they'reworking with, making sure that
they talk, you know, making surethat we know what's happening
there, what firms, firms we haveobviously relationships with
here.
It's still a challenge, andwe'll continue to work through
(48:53):
that challenge. It's hard, and Iapologize for that lack of
consistency, but it is one ofthose things we continue to work
on. Yes. I had an interestingconversation today about another
client.
Mark Bonner (49:16):
Okay. I think that's it. Well, John, thank you
so much for a wonderfulconversation.
John Santora (49:21):
Mark, thank Thanks, everyone.
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