PFAS pressure points and the membrane shake-up

The proposed EU PFAS ban is poised to reshape the membrane landscape, pulling PVDF into the regulatory crosshairs and forcing utilities, industrials and suppliers to rethink long-term planning. Rhys and Divya unpack what a universal restriction could mean for plant design, stranded-asset risk, supply-chain readiness and the accelerating push toward ceramic and other non-PFAS alternatives. 

They also explore emerging PFAS destruction pathways, near-realtime sensing and the market signals defining this inflection point. 

Dive deeper with BlueTech's PFAS Watch service, and register for the Water Innovation Town Hall on 4 December and the Ceramic Membranes briefing on 11 December.

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Presented by BlueTech Research®, Actionable Water Technology Market Intelligence.

Watch the trailer of Our Blue World: A Water Odyssey. Get involved, and learn more on the website: braveblue.world

Episode Transcript

Divya (00:05):
Welcome everyone.
Welcome to another episode ofBlue Notes podcast series.
Welcome to my co-host ReeseOwen.

Rhys (00:11):
Hi, Divya.
Hi everyone.
How's it going?

Divya (00:14):
Good, good.
As they say the sprint to theyear to the end of the year is
on.

Rhys (00:20):
Exactly, yeah.
And it's, it's already theholidays for, uh.
Our, uh, friends in, in, in theUS with, with it being
Thanksgiving.
So happy holidays to everybodythere

Divya (00:31):
Yeah.
Happy Thanksgiving everyone.
It's not long before Christmascomes around.

Rhys (00:36):
Exactly.
It's, insight and it's, youknow, always very busy at the
end of the year for everybody.
Yeah,

Divya (00:43):
that's right Reese.

Rhys (00:43):
going on.

Divya (00:44):
You've certainly been very busy.
You've been on the road quite abit the last week, if not too.

Rhys (00:48):
That's right.
Yeah.
I've been to two conferences.
Uh, I went to Oxford Water Day,uh, which was hosted at the site
business school part of theuniversity.
Uh, some very interestingpresentations and, and
networking there from the, theEuropean Bank for reconstruction
and developments, for example.
And then, uh, this week I was atthe science water events, which

(01:10):
was at the Royal Institution.
So it's a very historic venuewhere people like Charles Darwin
gave lectures.
And, uh, that was a day of, uh,very interesting presentations.
Again, mostly centered around inthe investment case for water.
Um, so that was interesting andcoming up.

(01:30):
We've also got a veryinteresting thing on the 4th of
December.
We're broadcasting our, uh,innovation Town Hall, which is
gonna be based around a bookcalled The Dynamics of Water
Innovation, which is, uh, byPaula Callahan.
And this is going to be, um, adiscussion.
Uh, with Evo SIL Tech and VortecWater Solutions, and they are

(01:55):
sharing their stories ofinnovation and, um, the things
that.
We're turning points in theirwater adoption journey in
getting their products outta thelab from concept to commercial
reality.
In conversation with Paul andRenard Hubner from Skin Water
and Case Spaceman, who is alsoPaul's co-author from uh, vagan

(02:18):
University.
So yeah, very interestingconversation.
So do you do check that out onthe 4th of December?
And you can find details on, uh,blue Tech Research's LinkedIn
page to sign up for that.
So yeah, quite a lot going on

Divya (02:31):
There is, and I'm always interested in this innovation
framework because the dynamicsof water innovation, the book
provides a fantasticfoundational kind of framework
for health.
How innovation in the waterspace is supposed to look like.
And then you've got all of thesecompanies that are living and
breathing that in that worldright now.
And you can ask them questionsand say, guys, how do you, how's

(02:51):
it working for you right now?
So is that, that kind of dynamicof bringing theory into practice
and getting those practicalinsights along with Paul's
insights.
I think that that makes for awonderful mix and very rich
conversation.

Rhys (03:04):
Yeah.
And I, in the past Sarah filhave said to me, you know, the,
this theoretical frameworkactually mapped what happened to
us almost precisely.
So, um,

Divya (03:12):
Oh wow.

Rhys (03:13):
does, yeah.
And yeah, the books, you know,found its way into boardrooms
and university programs and rand d teams.
So it's, it's, uh, yeah, it'smaking a bit of an impact.

Divya (03:21):
Excellent.
Look, looking forward to that onthe 4th of December.
Let's move on with today'sepisode.
So for those who've tuned intous before, you know, this type
of thing, we do, we pick areport that's jumped out to us
in the last month and we kind ofjust talk through it.
So.
The report pick of the month forme.
This month is Blue Tech's latestanalysis on the proposed EU wide

(03:43):
PFAS ban and what that couldmean specifically for water and
wastewater treatment.
I think that was a, a, a reallywell-written, thoughtful piece.

Rhys (03:52):
Yeah, it's, and it's, it's not new information as such, but
it's such a huge issue for theindustry that, uh, we wanted to
do a bit of a deeper dive intoit because, you know, it's not
just about the usual thing thatpeople might associate with
PFAS, which is contaminationinto, uh, water or, you know, or
in consumer products.
It's about actual the membranetechnology that underpins, most

(04:14):
of our water industry at themoment.

Divya (04:16):
Well, more specifically polymer right in membrane
technology, PVDF, um, you know,and that's, that falls under the
definition of.
EFAs that's being proposed forthis restriction.

Rhys (04:28):
Yeah, exactly.
It's everywhere.
PVDF, I mean, uh, especially forMBR systems, uh, you know, it's
kind of a default material inNBR because of its chemical
resistance and durability.
Poly ether cell phone or PES isalso used in, in, you know,
drinking water.
Particularly in, in the us.
But yeah, PVDF huge, uh, part ofmembrane treatment at the

(04:50):
moment.

Divya (04:51):
Yeah.
And if the restriction movesforward as proposed, it wouldn't
just affect.
New manufacturing, it would, youknow, cover the placing on
market for the use of thesematerials and, and that really
touches the entire life cycle ofmembrane technologies and
systems.

Rhys (05:05):
Exactly.
Yeah.
So it's, you know, it's stillproposed.
It hasn't happened yet, butit's, it's a universal ban.
So a ban on manufacturing, a banon use.
Uh, there are proposedtransition periods and
derogations for water treatment,uh, and in very specific things
like sealants, but it's still afinite window.
So, you know, and that meansthat for plants being built,

(05:27):
plants today, uh, there is arisk of stranded assets.
If, if PVDF membranes are used.

Divya (05:33):
Yeah, I.
I mean, from a capital planningperspective, you know, you might
design a membrane system for a15, 20 year life cycle or life,
right?
And, but the regulatory clockcould be much shorter than that.
So this isn't something that youcan just say, well, we'll think
about it.
It's something that you have tostart doing.
And that's why the report we gointo detail about actions for

(05:56):
C-Suite.
So if you are a member sittingin the C-Suite team listening to
this right now, what are some ofthe obvious questions that you
need to start asking?

Rhys (06:04):
Exactly.
Yeah.
It's, it's about looking at whatthe exposure could be depending
on what happens and beingforward looking about, thinking
about non PFAS alternatives.
Ceramics could really be cominginto their own.
We just, we discussed ceramicmembranes last time.
And yeah, it's not just aprocurement decision that
changes the, potentially thedesign of a plant.

(06:26):
Um, so yeah, it it's, it's.
You know, looking at fluxperformance, following behavior,
cleaning regimes, what it doesto opex and lifecycle costs,
there's a lot to think about.

Divya (06:37):
And there's also the, uh, the supply chain to think about.
So many utilities and industrialoperators move away from pfas
based membranes than suppliercapacity.
You know.
We'll have to start thinkingabout how we're gonna change
that.
Uh, what's the smart move tostart engaging with suppliers
today and and who would they be?
'Cause there's some verydominant suppliers out there

(06:58):
that, that, that have beenaround for, you know, hold
strong market position.

Rhys (07:02):
Exactly, and this is a great example of the, the effect
of regulation.
And you know, it, it's a reasonwhy we're launching Blue Tech's
Regulation Watch or Reg, uh, inthe new year.
You couldn't really ask for abetter example of how our
regulation will directly impactthe water industry and the
wastewater industry.
And the effects of that start,you know, even before the

(07:26):
legislation is reality becauseof these long lead times.

Divya (07:30):
Yeah.
So do check out that reportthat's available on the Blue
Tech platform for download.
On a similar note, we, we'vealso just been looking more
generally at what's happening inthe broader PFAS world.
Um, you know, we published ourlatest quarterly PFAS briefing,
and this is, this is accessibleto clients that are currently
subscribing to the PAS watchservice.

(07:53):
But really, the single takeawayis.
One of the biggest signals thisquarter is, is the acceleration
around PFAS, destruction anddisposal.
technologies that werepreviously considered
experimental are now reachingdestruction efficiencies that
are, you know, a demonstrationstage.
We've got new data in from a bigincineration test program in the
US that reportedly achievedextremely high destruction rates

(08:16):
between 99.5 to 99.9% for nineof the PFAS compounds.
And on paper, the numbers lookgreat.
There are some lingeringquestions and we go into more
detail in, in, in the briefingon this, but you know, there are
some lingering questions aboutthe possible formation of
byproducts and the concernsabout whether those high
destruction efficiencies hold upunder, under real world waste

(08:38):
feed conditions.
I.

Rhys (08:39):
Yeah, exactly.
And then o on the detectionside, there's a shift as well.
We're seeing faster nearrealtime PAS screening move
closer to reality.
Uh, and that would change verymuch how utilities and
industrial sites and, andregulators can manage the risk.
Um, so that would be a big deal.
And that, that's a, we, we,we've recently published a
report on pfas sensing.

Divya (09:00):
Yeah, and, and you know, just mentioned about
regulations, Europe continues totighten and North America is,
you know, moving quiteaggressively in, in that
direction too.
So when you pull it alltogether, you've got better
detection, emerging destruction,pathways, tightening regulation,
shifting of capital.
This is a real market inflectionpoint, and or this is at least

(09:20):
what a real market inflectionpoint looks like.

Rhys (09:23):
Yeah, exactly.
And, and that's why you BlueTech's got a PFAS watch service.
You know, be it, it's such a hottopic.
It's, it's worth having adedicated service just to keep
an eye on what's happening interms of technology regulation,
uh, companies.
So yeah, it does, you know, helphave a, keep an eye on where
capital's flowing and whichtechnologies are gaining

(09:44):
momentum.

Divya (09:45):
Yeah.
All in all, I think it was, um.
A really interesting, uh, debateto witness.
Um, and yeah, we'll it's amazinghow something small, how a small
news alert like that can triggerso many opinions to come, to
come through.
You know, it's, it's, it's niceto see that discussion.
So, um, again, if you're asubscriber to Blue Tech
Research, you can, you can clickon the analyst alerts part of

(10:06):
the blue.
Website and, um, you'll see the,the HOF stat update there and
you'll also hopefully seevarious, um, views from our
experts on that and, and manyother news alerts that we've
picked up over the last week ortwo.
Let's maybe move on to talkingabout Tracker or company.
Of the month.
Um, this month our trackerpicked up a company called

(10:28):
Lonna, which I'm sureeverybody's familiar with.
A US-based company working on abio-based mineral processing
technology called Dessolve.
And what makes'em stand outright now is that they've moved,
you know, their technology hasmoved beyond lab into real world
demonstration stage, which, youknow, again, going back to the,
the book of Dynamics of Waterinnovation is a big milestone

(10:48):
for any company in the watersector.

Rhys (10:51):
Yeah, exactly.
And so this is, uh, what's theconcept?
It's, it's a microbially derivedmetabolite or, or bio solution,
and that selectively dissolvesunwanted.
Minerals like magnesium,calcium, and silica, uh, while
leaving valuable metals such asnickel and copper behind.
Uh, so these BioSolutions areproduced offsite in fermentors

(11:13):
and shipped as liquids.
So, um, that means there's nolive biology on site.
And the, uh, the idea is it's abolt-on to existing mining
operations.

Divya (11:23):
And I think the data, what we're seeing is interesting
as well.
'cause Elon achieved 40% removalof magnesium, um, from a nickel
concentrate, um, which deliveredabout a 3% point increase in
nickel grade, um, which isroughly overall good
improvement.
And then in practical terms,that means.

(11:44):
You know, loweringtransportation costs, fewer, you
know, uh, smelter penalties and,and, and just overall, um,
stronger project economics, ifyou're looking at the energy
input, if you're looking at thekind of the flow sheet of, um,
input and output.
So it's looking attractive.

Rhys (12:03):
Yeah.
Uh, that's moving, you know,somewhat up the scale.
It's early days, but they'vecompleted a small continuous
pilot in Ontario.
Uh, and it, there's, there's,there's also a one to two done
per day demonstration with EagleMine.
So going from kilos to tons,it's, it's, you know, that's
where technologies provethemselves or, or don't in this

(12:24):
scenario.

Divya (12:26):
Yeah.
And you know, what we've done inthe, in our Tracker database is
we've rated Lonna.
Um, a number of points, but oneof them is the address size of
the addressable market.
The strength of the leadershipteam is it an innovative
business model.
So overall Alon score a four outof five, which, um, you know, is
a good score for a company stillat early, early stages.

Rhys (12:48):
Yeah, exactly.
It's a very good score.
Um, as I say early days, but,uh, you know, it's, it's very
promising technology.
So, and if that timescale demodelivers what the lab and pilots
have shown so far, it could be agenuinely important upgrade tool
for, you know, critical ralsupply.
Uh, so definitely want to watch.

Divya (13:07):
Yeah, absolutely.
Um, okay.
I think that's, that's, that'sall we have time for today.
I think I did want to justremind our audience that we,
Reese mentioned the fourth of,uh, the briefing coming up on
the 4th of December.
And we also have a web briefingcoming up, um, in December on
ceramic membranes.
I believe it's the 11th ofDecember, or I can't remember

(13:29):
the exact date now.
Let me just.

Rhys (13:31):
Uh, ceramic membranes on the 11th

Divya (13:32):
On the 11th of December.
Yeah, so, so, um, you know, youcan register for that briefing
through the BlueTech website oryou, you should have received an
email with a registration linkalso.
So we look forward to discussingeverything to do with ceramic
membranes with our expert, uh,Dr.
Graham Pierce on that session.

Rhys (13:50):
Absolutely.
So yeah, we will speak to younext time.
And in the meantime, uh,everybody, uh, have a great, uh,
start of December, uh, uh, goodThanksgiving and you know, en
enjoy going off and looking forthose bargains on Black Friday,
if that's what you're doing.

Divya (14:09):
Very timely.
Very timely.
Reese.
Yeah.
Yeah, the, yeah.
Holiday shopping certainlystarted, that's for sure.
Thanks very much everyone.
See you soon.

Rhys (14:20):
Bye for now.

Divya (14:20):
Thanks.
Thanks, Reese.
Bye.