How do you build merch that actually connects with fans? In this episode of Bobby Owsinski’s Inner Circle, I sit down with Seamus Menihane, CEO of Armada, a top-tier merch company helping artists, from indies to heavy hitters, turn merch into a true brand extension.
If you've ever wondered what merch sells best, how to price it, or how to avoid costly mistakes, Seamus breaks it all down. With his roots as a touring drummer and years running Downright Merch, he’s built Armada into a full-scale merch partner that delivers everything from screen printing to full e-commerce.
This is your inside look at what works, what flops, and how artists can take control of their merch game.
KEY TAKEAWAYS
• Keep your merch line small and focused
• Over-ordering too many products hurts profitability
• Best-selling item is still the black t-shirt
• Vinyl reissues and preorders perform extremely well
• Indie artists need to think beyond just screen printing
• Custom apparel adds premium pricing but costs more to produce
• Merchandise profit margins depend on volume
• E-commerce is essential for indie artist success
• Print-on-demand is a smart test tool for new ideas
• Merch advances are real, but mostly for high-end artists
BEST MOMENTS
00:01:05. “Armada is a result of a recent merger between Downright Merch and Overcast Merch.”
00:02:12. “We lead first with the direct to consumer side of the business.”
00:03:25. “We proactively put designs in front of them.”
00:04:16. “I would go on tour and come back and I would work at a screen printing shop.”
00:10:28. “You can’t go wrong with a black t-shirt.”
00:12:06. “Custom apparel that we design definitely sells at a premium.”
00:14:52. “The kids just aren’t drinking anymore.”
00:26:01. “Consistency day in and day out… that’s crucial for any endeavor.”
Thank you for tuning in to Bobby Owsinski’s Inner Circle, the podcast that takes you deep inside the music industry. Each week, Bobby shares insights, news, analysis, and conversations with the movers and shakers shaping today’s music world.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:00):
What advicewould you give to an indie act?
(00:03):
Let's saythat's looking to get some merch
and just doesn'thave any experience.
I would say keep it simple.
think that biggest risk,especially from a profitability
standpoint, would be orderingtoo many products
and ordering toofew of too many products.
So having 25 units of 17different products is like,
you know, it's not the most costeffective way to go about it.
(00:24):
So back to my point. Earlier,I always advise our artists
to try to keep it simple.
Small condensed product line.
and I would say that making surethat the merch represents
your artistic brandand your vision, that's crucial.
And partnering with a companythat can understand that
and be able to deliver on thatfor you crucial.
Seamus Manahan is the CEOof Armada Merch company.
(00:45):
That's a lotmore than just a screen printer.
His company works as a truebrand partner to artists,
creators, and companies,helping them build compelling
merch campaigns actually connectwith their audiences.
Armadais a result of a recent merger
between Seamus is DownrightMerch and Overcast merch,
and can now rivalmajor label merch operations
in both size and scope.
(01:05):
Seamus is a former musicianwho's built the company
with artists in mind.
Running it with a deep respectfor the creative process
and head down mentality.
During the interview,we talked about best selling
merch trends, profitmargins, and price strategies.
Directconsumer sales, merchandise
for indie artists,and much more.
I spoke with Seamusfrom his office
outside of Boston.
When people think of a merchprovider, they usually think of
(01:31):
some company that's onlygoing to do the printing.
But in fact, you offera lot more than that, right?
Yes, yes we do.
We do the printingfor a lot of our clients.
And, you know, that ispart of a service that we offer.
But beyond just the productionand the manufacturing, we
we do a lot more than that.
Like what?
So we do a lot of the branding.
(01:52):
We do our main,you know, our core business
is the, e-commerce managementin the fulfillment.
So, we really leadfirst with the direct
to consumer side of the businessand running the artists,
Shopify stores and making surethat they have a great brand
and to see e-commerce componentto their merch business.
Okay. Yeah,that's a lot, actually.
(02:15):
And and that'susually a component that there
would be a different vendorthat would be supplying that.
historically. Yeah.
And and part of the service thatwe offer is we try to deliver
not only just the brand guiding.
So making surethat we're helping
with the creativeand the artistic direction,
but also coming in and helpingwith the actual infrastructure
so that we can send outthe product for our customers
(02:35):
is really part of thethe service package
that we offer artists.
One of the things that I alwaysthought was that most artists,
before they even committedto doing any kind of merch,
they would alreadyhave the graphics together.
But apparentlythat's not the case, right?
No, it's it's notI mean, there are some artists
that have a, creative directorthat maybe they've been working
(02:58):
with for years,or a graphic artist
that is maybe a friendor somebody
that's in their circlethat will take care
of the creative designs and,and lead up the,
the art aspect of their brand.
But more times than not,we're actually helping
with doing the designsand getting the product
spread togetherand presenting it to the artist
so that we makeit really easy for them
(03:19):
so we can proactivelyput designs in front of them,
and they can look throughall the options that we deliver.
That waythey don't have to worry
about going and finding,you know, a,
graphic designer and havingto source their own designs.
We try to get ahead of thataspect for them.
Now, let's talk about yourbackground for a second,
because you weren'talways in this in the business.
(03:39):
You were a working musician.
I was a drummer for many years.
I was a touring drummer.
So before I got into, yeah,I guess the industry side of it
and really getting interestedin what other opportunities
there are outside ofjust playing and performing.
I was a touring drummerfor years,
so that's kind of how I howI cut my teeth.
And what brought youto the center of the business?
(03:59):
I was always interestedin doing something
on the industry side,and I thought early on that
maybe that would be managementor working at a record label,
or maybe somethingthat was a little more,
I don't want to say traditional,but maybe a little bit
more of a, clearer path.
I would go on tour and come backand I would work at a screen
printing shop.
(04:20):
So that was my my gigwhen I was at home, I was, you
know, cleaning screensand kind of doing
a lot of the grunt workat the screen printing shop.
So I always had an intereston the merchandise side of it.
And I think that that kindof the two, the two concepts of.
Yeah, really being interestedin the production,
the screen printing sideand getting started with that
and the blend of my interestin music in the music industry,
(04:42):
merchandise and brand managementseemed like,
like a really good, a good fit.
And it seemed likekind of an open lane
at that time to where there justthere wasn't that many options.
Did that startwith your band first?
So was that your client?
First client?
Yeah.
Easy client to score right?
Yeah.
So that was one ofone of the first clients
that we had was, was my band.
And I played in abunch of different acts back
(05:03):
then, like some metal bands,some pop bands
and like all over the place.
So we were doing a lotof the merchandise for the bands
that I was playingwith at that time.
that's one part of it though.
Breaking out and actuallydoing it for a living
is somethingcompletely different.
So how did you makethat transition?
I got sick of touring.
That was, that was athat was a big aspect
(05:24):
of really wantingto commit to the business
and really wantingto press forward with it was
I was just burnt outfor being on the road,
and I'd done it forso many years, and I loved it,
and I had a ton of fun,especially like early on.
I really enjoyed it,but I just got tired of touring
and andI really wanted to pursue
something on the industry sideso that that was really the,
you know, the,the starting point.
(05:48):
I could feel myselfkind of being like,
maybe the touring in the roadisn't for me anymore,
but there were a few years whereI was kind of juggling both,
and that had, you know, its ownset of challenges
with being on the road and stilltrying to run a business.
And it just kind of cameto a point where it was like,
well, really need to commit to,to, to
this as kind of as the future.
I feel like.
yeah,I went through the same thing
(06:09):
where I was on the roadall the time,
and finally it got very old.
There is one particular dayI remember one tour
that I was doing, and it justhit me one night on stage.
It's like, no, I don't thinkI want to do this anymore.
What was your, your background?
I was a guitar playerat this point.
I was, the musical directorfor a famous English
(06:31):
guitar player.
Okay.
won't go any further than that.
again, it wasn't a great tour.
And then it was just like,I don't know if I want
to do this anymore.
And, you know,the funny part was,
it was one of the bestdays of my life
when I actually determinedthat because it's Liberated.
(06:51):
there'sso much of your personality
that's incorporatedinto being a musician,
and you feel likeyou have to justify that.
And when that's gone,it's like, oh, Liberating. Yeah.
There's, there'sI feel like a feeling of almost
feeling institutionalizedto touring to where if that's
the only thing that you've donefor years and years,
(07:12):
it's that constantfeeling of inertia, right?
And being on the roadand off the road,
coming home for six weeksand going back on tour
for six weeks.
And it's you get in that cycleand it's really difficult
to take your mind out of itand think about living,
you know, any other waythat isn't in that,
in that sort of pattern.
So especially if you do itfor years and years, you know,
(07:33):
I mean, I was on the road,which isn't a real
a real long time,but almost eight years
I was going pretty consistently.
So you definitely getcaught up in that as,
not just a lifestyle,but kind of a rhythm
that you, that you live right?
Yeah. Yeah. For sure.
I don't,I, I can't say I miss it,
but I was I'm glad I did it.
(07:53):
I missed I missed thethe traveling and the, obviously
the freedom of being able to seea different city every day.
It was obviously the time to doit is when you're young.
And I'm glad I spent, you know,early 20s, mid 20s doing it.
It was, it was, it was great.
So I do look back on it fondly.
But the, the stability now of,you know, being home
(08:15):
and oh consist of job and wifekids.
It's it's nice. It is.
Yeah. Okay.
Tell me about the recent mergerbetween, downright music
and overcast merch.
So down right merch and overcasthave come together
to form a new companycalled Armada and effectively
we have been working on itfor a while.
(08:38):
And now that we're at the pointthat we can make it official
and we can utilizeboth of our services,
you know, overcastdesign and print
previously being really focusedon, the screen printing,
embroidery and decorationand downright merch
being really focusedon e-commerce and fulfillment.
It's really us bringingboth of our strong suits
together and combining forcesto to really create
(08:59):
a better productin a, in a better service
for our clients.
At the end of the day.
Are they based out of LongBeach?
Yes. Yeah, that's what I thoughtwhen I saw that
you have two different officeson the East Coast at that.
Okay. Yeah.
They're in Long Beach of where?
Matthew in Massachusettsare our main warehouses
in Methuen, Massachusetts.
So wewe got both both coasts covered.
(09:20):
Yeah. Very cool, very cool.
This isprobably a common question,
and Ibet it changes all the time.
But what is the bestselling merch item right now?
I thinkwhenever we have an artist
that doesa reissue of a vinyl record,
especially a a fan favorite,you know, maybe it's a record
that they put outand it's a 15 year anniversary
(09:40):
or a ten year anniversary,and we see a
and we get the chance to tohelp them with a vinyl reissue.
Those always sell the the best.
Right.
I think that there's obviouslya massive resurgence
for vinyl over the pastten years,
maybe a little bit longerat this point.
But we always see those beingthe most desirable product,
(10:01):
and those are alwaysthe type of campaigns
that I feel likeget the biggest fan reaction
when we're able to reissue,a, a fan favorite.
But and that also goesfor new records.
You know, there'sa lot of new vinyl releases
when an artist puts out,one of what are their new albums
and we do the preorder for it.
Those always tend toto sell really, really well to.
How about clothing?
(10:21):
you know, you can't go wrongwith a black t shirt, right.
That's that's really the breadand butter of, of what we do.
So I feel like, black tshirts are really edgy t shirts
and but hoodiesand long sleeves are the,
the core, you know, the,the core product offering.
But, we had that the abilityto get really creative
with, with productsfor our, for our clients,
(10:42):
even on the apparel side, like,there's a lot of custom
made garments that will partnerwith our clients to,
to do the design and the sketchand really get specific
on the type of clothingthat we're,
that we're designing for them.
So that that's athat's always exciting
when we get to workon those sorts of projects.
okay, that being said, thenwhat would be the sweet spot
price pointfor something like that?
(11:04):
Would you say for for thet shirt, hoodie, or a vinyl?
That and also for the custommerch you're just talking about?
I feel like right, right nowt t shirts that it's
selling at concerts, it's,it's it's really 30, 30 bucks.
I feel like thatthat should be the going rate.
You know, obviouslyyou go to some huge arena shows
(11:25):
and you see artistsselling shirts for 55, 60 bucks.
That's a little much.
I mean, I feel like30, 35 is really the sweet,
the sweet spot.
And that's jumped up.
I feel likewhen we first started,
it was still 20, 20 bucks.
And that was pretty standard.
But given the price of cottonand the price of garments
going up so much over the past,you know, the past 4 or 5 years,
I feel likewe've seen that price
(11:46):
kind of push a little bitcloser to 35 bucks,
maybe for a hoodie, 60 bucks.
I feel like that'sthat's pretty fair as well.
And you just mentionedabout custom items that you work
with, your various clients on,and I'm sure
you can get more money on those,but how much more
like on the customapparel that we that we work
(12:07):
with, that we design, they,they definitely sell
at a premium,you know, and I feel like
because the cost of it,it is significantly more
to come up with a t shirtfrom scratch.
You know, those arethose are obviously have more
they're more costly. Butyou know, those those
(12:27):
they're not outrageouslypriced are still in line
with what, you know,a standard black shirt would be.
Yeah. Yeah.
Okay. Here'ssomething that I bet
every indie musicianwants to know.
What piece of merchhas the highest, profit margin.
really depends on the volumethat you're printing,
but I feel like, again, black tshirts, it's a bread and butter.
You can't go wrong with it.
(12:48):
I feel like especiallyand we're always big advocates
for making,kind of a consolidated product
line of 3 to 5 items.
Most.
You know, the last thing we wantis for artists to go out
and look like they have a fleamarket at their merch table.
You know,we want to make sure that
they have a handful of options.
And when you're when artistsare able to do that, obviously
they're able to print moreand really get better
(13:09):
cost. Right.
That's bulk discounts for,for the items
that they are printing.
So, I think that, yeah, t shirtsis definitely the the most,
price, cost effective item.
I feel like if you couldreally get the most margin,
if done right.
now, I know that,you have some high end artists,
(13:31):
but I'm sure you also havemany indie artists
that are playing the scene.
And probably the same sceneyou and I grew up in.
Now, that being said,there are fewer
and fewer venues these days.
So how does that impact,the merch business?
You know, I, I think it, itimpacts artists really at large.
(13:54):
I think it, it kind of ittrickles down, you know,
I feel like less places to play,less options.
Obviously a big consolidationto the Live Nation, shows where
really there they'reinstituted like merch cuts
that the artists have to pay.
I feel like that'sprobably more impactful.
And that really being the normis something that the artists,
(14:17):
especially independent artists,kind of have to be mindful of.
And, I wish there were moreindependent venues.
You know, there's there's,it seems to always be 1 or 2
that go out every single year,which is unfortunate,
especially since Covid.
I feel like that's thetrajectory that it's been on.
So unfortunately, you're right,there are significantly
less options.
And that's really not idealfor, for artists,
(14:39):
you know, or the community.
Yeah, yeah, for sure.
One of the thingsI was surprised
that I read somewherethat one of the reasons why,
clubs, many clubs are going outis because of alcohol
consumption being down.
That would make sense. Right?
who would have thought,you know, Yeah.
The kidsjust aren't drinking anymore.
(14:59):
It doesn't That me.
that does make sense.
I mean,I feel like when I was growing
up, going to shows, there was alot of all age halls.
I mean, we would justmake our own venue, like
we would play at a skate parkor we would play basement shows.
So that's always an option,right?
And when when there's a will,there's a way.
I feel like if, if there's,a community or a scene,
I feel likethere's always a crop of bands
that are willing to get kindof creative and figure out their
(15:23):
own, their own way to do it.
Yeah, yeah.
One of the thingsthat sort of surprised me,
and I don't know why it should,maybe because I haven't operated
on this level before,advances from a mortgage company
to to an artist.
And, I read your article.
Actually,I saw it and hype bought,
and I thought to myself, gee,I had no concept
(15:47):
of that happening, but that'sthat's a big deal, right?
Yeah.
I mean, it's it'ssimilar mechanics and,
that as a record label,right, as a record label advance
and trying to solidify a dealwith an artist for a long term,
contract, it's it's verycommon in our industry.
Okay.
But that's obviously ahigher end artist is doing that.
Usually. Yeah, usually.
(16:07):
Usually.
That's that's really a way totry to win some bigger business.
It's kind of commonplaceto have to come in
with some sort of advanceor something
that that's attractivefor an artist of that size.
Yeah, sure.
What's the most unusualmerch item that you ever had
to create or deliver?
Axes. So we we did axes for,this artist, Ice Knight kills,
(16:33):
we've done hammers fora, artist Kubla Khan.
So, yeah, just that's that'sprobably the two strangest ones.
But I feel like we've donewe've we've done kind of like,
across the board, I think we,I always say, like,
if you could think it, we could,we could probably brand it
and make it into a merch item.
(16:53):
So, you know, we've done, thebeverage collaborations before.
It's like, reallythe sky's the limit.
how easy is it to source stufflike that?
Only because you're upagainst large retailers
that are buying in much greaterbulk, that you probably are in
something like that.
So is there a longwait time to get delivery on it?
(17:14):
There is for, for a lot of thereally customized product,
there is a longerwait time as opposed
to a lot of the cloth itemsthat we produce
in-house where we're able to,but in some instances
we're able to produce a day of.
But if we're if we're doinghighly customized
specific products, yeah,sometimes there's a long wait.
There's a long waiting period,especially over Covid.
(17:35):
I mean, that just that anyexpectations are out the window.
There is some stuffthat we're waiting three,
4 or 5 months for delivery, butbecause it's sourced overseas,
there's always,logistics component
with trying to figure outtimeline and cost
for getting it into the state.
So, it's it's really, you know,kind of kind of a gamble on it,
not a gamble,but it's it's it's,
it has its own elements.
(17:58):
Every time we, we exploredoing a new type of product.
has the tariffs, tariffsaffected, you know, Slightly.
It the tariff on on cottonthat has had an impact on,
on costs for the majority of theproduct that we're producing.
That's really beenthe most impactful.
But luckily it hasn'tit hasn't been detrimental.
(18:20):
Okay.
What don't people knowabout what you do
that you wish they did?
I think the logisticsside of the business and the
amount of tasks and partsthat go into the life cycle
of creating a piece of merchis really interesting,
and I think that it's definitelysomething that I think
(18:41):
should be more well known.
I think that seeing the lifecycle of how
an order comes to be,from the ideation
and putting together the graphicdesign to doing sampling
and then putting together mocksand how it actually runs
through the productionlifecycle,
whether it is produced in-houseor whether it's being sourced
from overseas.
You know,there's a lot that goes into it
and there's a lotof different steps
(19:02):
throughout the entire process.
And I think thatthat's something that's
not as commonly understoodby either
artists or by customers.
And, I think that that isan interesting component
of our business.
And I think it's, you know,I think the more knowledge
that our artists haveand that the better our working
relationship tends to be.
(19:23):
So, yeah,I think that's the most,
least known facet of what we do.
You should probably doa video of that.
we've thought about it and we'vekind of put some videos together
with how an idea becomesa sketch
becomes a piece of merch. Right.
But I think seeing the processof even how the cotton in the
blank t shirts are sourcedand how they're ordered
and how they get delivered toour screen printing shop,
(19:44):
those are all kind of ancillary,things that happen
to come togetherand could create
and create our product.
So it's it's definitelya complex, supply chain.
Is there anything proprietarythat you wouldn't let out?
No, because I think it's justsystems and processes
that we've built over the yearsthat suit our business.
(20:05):
Right?
I don't think there's anythinginherently proprietary.
I think just our team,I think there
throughout the yearsand their knowledge
base has grown.
And it's just the waythat we operate our business.
It's it'sa lot of manpower. Yeah.
What advicewould you give to an indie act?
Let's saythat's looking to get some merch
and just doesn'thave any experience.
(20:28):
I would say keep it simple.
think that the biggestI don't want to say downfall,
but the biggest risk,especially from a profitability
standpoint, would be orderingtoo many products
and ordering toofew of too many products.
So having 25 units of 17different products is like,
you know, it's not the most costeffective way to go about it.
(20:50):
So back to my point. Earlier,I always advise our artists
to try to keep it simple.
Small condensed product line.
And and I and I would say thatmaking sure
that the merch representsyour artistic
brand and your vision,that's that's crucial.
And partnering with a companythat can understand that
(21:10):
and be able to deliver for that,or deliver on that for you
is crucial.
see, I would think it would bepurchasing too much of an item
because of the price break.
At a certain point,It gets cheaper
the more that you purchase.
So I,I feel like the especially now
with the adventof being able to sell online,
(21:32):
which is a servicethat we provide our artists.
Yeah.
You never want to get overloadedwith inventory,
but what's what's good is thatthere are multiple options
for how artistscan sell their merch.
They can go out on tour, right.
And they can sell itat their shows,
and then they have the optionto process the leftovers
into the storeand sell it online.
So it's niceto give multiple sales
channel options to our artiststhat way, even if they do end up
(21:53):
in the unfortunate situationwhere they might have
a surplus of inventory,they have options
for how they can sell it.
to do any print on demand.
We do. Yeah.
And that'sthat's a great option,
especially for new designsand new and new ideas
that maybe are not tested yetand just to be able to gauge
fan reaction, I think print ondemand is a great tool for that.
(22:14):
Yeah, especially for online.
Well,online is the The only yeah,
yeah, I mean,we we've seen artists
use QR codes at their show.
Right.
And they can and fanscan scan and check out online
and it gets deliveredsome of that is print on demand.
So it's really it'salmost like a blend of of both,
you know, online and tour.
It's kind of the, the,the functions of them
(22:36):
are becoming closer and closer.
Is there one problem that youhave in your job that vexes you,
that you wishyou can get rid of?
There's, there's,there's quite a few every day.
Every day is a new problem.
And like I said, it's it'sbecause this is a logistics
heavy businessthat is really where I spend
a lot of my time is trying to,you know, trying to make sure
that we're kind of protectedat all areas
(22:59):
and that there aren'tany landmines
with our supply chain.
There's a lot like I said,there's a lot of different tasks
and at different pointsto the product to be ordered
and actually deliveredto the customers.
So that is wherea lot of the pain points come.
You know, wherea simple UPS missed delivery
or having the, the, the boxesdeliver an hour late
(23:19):
can really could really screwthings up for, for a band.
So you know, there's a lotof the details and logistics
that, that, that, thattake up a lot of my day.
taking a step backand taking the 10,000ft view.
Consideringwhere you're at in the business,
you have a unique viewpointon this.
Do you see any trendsin the music business
(23:42):
that affect what you do? Yes.
I mean, I think that thethere's, there's
there's definitelya lot of trends
in terms of direct to consumerand fan engagement that directly
impacts our business.
I think the abilityto have a custom web store
that also doublesas your main website,
(24:03):
that also doubles as your fanclub and your VIP ticketing hub.
I think that the consolidationand everything kind of being
artist centeredand not having to lean on third
party channelsto be able to sell these things,
I think that's a big trendthat we're seeing,
that we have been seeing reallyfor the past ten years.
And that's really somethingthat I feel like
(24:25):
we caught on too early,which is why we've always
pushed to have artists sellingthrough their own custom stores
that we build them,and we want to make that
the central hubfor all of their business.
Right. We we would love.
We lovewhen they sell their VIP tickets
through their website,and they do
custom content and song releasesthrough the website,
(24:45):
because that is really a channelthat they own that they can use
to best connect directlywith their audience.
So that's probablythe biggest trend that
I've been seeing over the past.
Call it ten years, thatdirectly impacts
our area of the business.
now. I knowyou help them with e-commerce,
but does that also includeputting together
a site for them as well?
(25:05):
I know there's an e-commercecomponent there, but would.
But it also includeeverything else Oh yeah,
oh yeah.
We build the sitefrom beginning to end.
We take careof all of the e-commerce design
and all of the webstoremaintenance,
and we help them at every stepof the way
for their for their e-commercesite built.
okay, that's very coolSo we try to make it easy.
that solves a lot of problems,doesn't it.
(25:26):
Yeah, I'd say yeah.
But especially you know,it used to be so difficult.
I feel like to set up a customstore to sell product through.
You have to like, learn how to,you know, either
you had to know how to code,you had to hire someone
and paid themsome absorbent amount of money
to build the custom website.
And it's just not the caseanymore. It's a lot.
It's a lot sleeker,and it's a lot easier
to be able to set up a websitein a web store. Now.
(25:49):
Yeah, yeah.
Last question, Seamus, and thankyou for your your time today.
Oh, thank you.
What's the best piece of advicethat maybe
you learned along the way.
Or maybe somebodyimparted to you.
I would say consistency dayin and day out.
Even with the naturalflows of business, I feel like
remaining consistent and tryingto stay dedicated to the
(26:13):
really the thecompany core mission
and your overall goals.
Though it's hard day in and dayout, being able to zoom out
and take a 30,000ft viewon what you're trying to achieve
requires consistency.
So I think that that's crucialfor any for for any endeavor.
Thanks for listeningand being my inner circle.
Remember, if you haveany questions or comments,
you can send them to questionsat Bobby or Sense Wkyc.com.
(26:36):
You can also learnall about the latest in music,
audio and production news,and find out about openings
from our latestonline classes at Bobby
or since wkyc.com.
This is Bobby Oshinsky.
I will see you next time.
What advicewould you give to an indie act?
(00:03):
Let's saythat's looking to get some merch
and just doesn'thave any experience.
I would say keep it simple.
think that biggest risk,especially from a profitability
standpoint, would be orderingtoo many products
and ordering toofew of too many products.
So having 25 units of 17different products is like,
you know, it's not the most costeffective way to go about it.
(00:24):
So back to my point. Earlier,I always advise our artists
to try to keep it simple.
Small condensed product line.
and I would say that making surethat the merch represents
your artistic brandand your vision, that's crucial.
And partnering with a companythat can understand that
and be able to deliver on thatfor you crucial.
Seamus Manahan is the CEOof Armada Merch company.
(00:45):
That's a lotmore than just a screen printer.
His company works as a truebrand partner to artists,
creators, and companies,helping them build compelling
merch campaigns actually connectwith their audiences.
Armadais a result of a recent merger
between Seamus is DownrightMerch and Overcast merch,
and can now rivalmajor label merch operations
in both size and scope.
(01:05):
Seamus is a former musicianwho's built the company
with artists in mind.
Running it with a deep respectfor the creative process
and head down mentality.
During the interview,we talked about best selling
merch trends, profitmargins, and price strategies.
Directconsumer sales, merchandise
for indie artists,and much more.
I spoke with Seamusfrom his office
outside of Boston.
When people think of a merchprovider, they usually think of
(01:31):
some company that's onlygoing to do the printing.
But in fact, you offera lot more than that, right?
Yes, yes we do.
We do the printingfor a lot of our clients.
And, you know, that ispart of a service that we offer.
But beyond just the productionand the manufacturing, we
we do a lot more than that.
Like what?
So we do a lot of the branding.
(01:52):
We do our main,you know, our core business
is the, e-commerce managementin the fulfillment.
So, we really leadfirst with the direct
to consumer side of the businessand running the artists,
Shopify stores and making surethat they have a great brand
and to see e-commerce componentto their merch business.
Okay. Yeah,that's a lot, actually.
(02:15):
And and that'susually a component that there
would be a different vendorthat would be supplying that.
historically. Yeah.
And and part of the service thatwe offer is we try to deliver
not only just the brand guiding.
So making surethat we're helping
with the creativeand the artistic direction,
but also coming in and helpingwith the actual infrastructure
so that we can send outthe product for our customers
(02:35):
is really part of thethe service package
that we offer artists.
One of the things that I alwaysthought was that most artists,
before they even committedto doing any kind of merch,
they would alreadyhave the graphics together.
But apparentlythat's not the case, right?
No, it's it's notI mean, there are some artists
that have a, creative directorthat maybe they've been working
(02:58):
with for years,or a graphic artist
that is maybe a friendor somebody
that's in their circlethat will take care
of the creative designs and,and lead up the,
the art aspect of their brand.
But more times than not,we're actually helping
with doing the designsand getting the product
spread togetherand presenting it to the artist
so that we makeit really easy for them
(03:19):
so we can proactivelyput designs in front of them,
and they can look throughall the options that we deliver.
That waythey don't have to worry
about going and finding,you know, a,
graphic designer and havingto source their own designs.
We try to get ahead of thataspect for them.
Now, let's talk about yourbackground for a second,
because you weren'talways in this in the business.
(03:39):
You were a working musician.
I was a drummer for many years.
I was a touring drummer.
So before I got into, yeah,I guess the industry side of it
and really getting interestedin what other opportunities
there are outside ofjust playing and performing.
I was a touring drummerfor years,
so that's kind of how I howI cut my teeth.
And what brought youto the center of the business?
(03:59):
I was always interestedin doing something
on the industry side,and I thought early on that
maybe that would be managementor working at a record label,
or maybe somethingthat was a little more,
I don't want to say traditional,but maybe a little bit
more of a, clearer path.
I would go on tour and come backand I would work at a screen
printing shop.
(04:20):
So that was my my gigwhen I was at home, I was, you
know, cleaning screensand kind of doing
a lot of the grunt workat the screen printing shop.
So I always had an intereston the merchandise side of it.
And I think that that kindof the two, the two concepts of.
Yeah, really being interestedin the production,
the screen printing sideand getting started with that
and the blend of my interestin music in the music industry,
(04:42):
merchandise and brand managementseemed like,
like a really good, a good fit.
And it seemed likekind of an open lane
at that time to where there justthere wasn't that many options.
Did that startwith your band first?
So was that your client?
First client?
Yeah.
Easy client to score right?
Yeah.
So that was one ofone of the first clients
that we had was, was my band.
And I played in abunch of different acts back
(05:03):
then, like some metal bands,some pop bands
and like all over the place.
So we were doing a lotof the merchandise for the bands
that I was playingwith at that time.
that's one part of it though.
Breaking out and actuallydoing it for a living
is somethingcompletely different.
So how did you makethat transition?
I got sick of touring.
That was, that was athat was a big aspect
(05:24):
of really wantingto commit to the business
and really wantingto press forward with it was
I was just burnt outfor being on the road,
and I'd done it forso many years, and I loved it,
and I had a ton of fun,especially like early on.
I really enjoyed it,but I just got tired of touring
and andI really wanted to pursue
something on the industry sideso that that was really the,
you know, the,the starting point.
(05:48):
I could feel myselfkind of being like,
maybe the touring in the roadisn't for me anymore,
but there were a few years whereI was kind of juggling both,
and that had, you know, its ownset of challenges
with being on the road and stilltrying to run a business.
And it just kind of cameto a point where it was like,
well, really need to commit to,to, to
this as kind of as the future.
I feel like.
yeah,I went through the same thing
(06:09):
where I was on the roadall the time,
and finally it got very old.
There is one particular dayI remember one tour
that I was doing, and it justhit me one night on stage.
It's like, no, I don't thinkI want to do this anymore.
What was your, your background?
I was a guitar playerat this point.
I was, the musical directorfor a famous English
(06:31):
guitar player.
Okay.
won't go any further than that.
again, it wasn't a great tour.
And then it was just like,I don't know if I want
to do this anymore.
And, you know,the funny part was,
it was one of the bestdays of my life
when I actually determinedthat because it's Liberated.
(06:51):
there'sso much of your personality
that's incorporatedinto being a musician,
and you feel likeyou have to justify that.
And when that's gone,it's like, oh, Liberating. Yeah.
There's, there'sI feel like a feeling of almost
feeling institutionalizedto touring to where if that's
the only thing that you've donefor years and years,
(07:12):
it's that constantfeeling of inertia, right?
And being on the roadand off the road,
coming home for six weeksand going back on tour
for six weeks.
And it's you get in that cycleand it's really difficult
to take your mind out of itand think about living,
you know, any other waythat isn't in that,
in that sort of pattern.
So especially if you do itfor years and years, you know,
(07:33):
I mean, I was on the road,which isn't a real
a real long time,but almost eight years
I was going pretty consistently.
So you definitely getcaught up in that as,
not just a lifestyle,but kind of a rhythm
that you, that you live right?
Yeah. Yeah. For sure.
I don't,I, I can't say I miss it,
but I was I'm glad I did it.
(07:53):
I missed I missed thethe traveling and the, obviously
the freedom of being able to seea different city every day.
It was obviously the time to doit is when you're young.
And I'm glad I spent, you know,early 20s, mid 20s doing it.
It was, it was, it was great.
So I do look back on it fondly.
But the, the stability now of,you know, being home
(08:15):
and oh consist of job and wifekids.
It's it's nice. It is.
Yeah. Okay.
Tell me about the recent mergerbetween, downright music
and overcast merch.
So down right merch and overcasthave come together
to form a new companycalled Armada and effectively
we have been working on itfor a while.
(08:38):
And now that we're at the pointthat we can make it official
and we can utilizeboth of our services,
you know, overcastdesign and print
previously being really focusedon, the screen printing,
embroidery and decorationand downright merch
being really focusedon e-commerce and fulfillment.
It's really us bringingboth of our strong suits
together and combining forcesto to really create
(08:59):
a better productin a, in a better service
for our clients.
At the end of the day.
Are they based out of LongBeach?
Yes. Yeah, that's what I thoughtwhen I saw that
you have two different officeson the East Coast at that.
Okay. Yeah.
They're in Long Beach of where?
Matthew in Massachusettsare our main warehouses
in Methuen, Massachusetts.
So wewe got both both coasts covered.
(09:20):
Yeah. Very cool, very cool.
This isprobably a common question,
and Ibet it changes all the time.
But what is the bestselling merch item right now?
I thinkwhenever we have an artist
that doesa reissue of a vinyl record,
especially a a fan favorite,you know, maybe it's a record
that they put outand it's a 15 year anniversary
(09:40):
or a ten year anniversary,and we see a
and we get the chance to tohelp them with a vinyl reissue.
Those always sell the the best.
Right.
I think that there's obviouslya massive resurgence
for vinyl over the pastten years,
maybe a little bit longerat this point.
But we always see those beingthe most desirable product,
(10:01):
and those are alwaysthe type of campaigns
that I feel likeget the biggest fan reaction
when we're able to reissue,a, a fan favorite.
But and that also goesfor new records.
You know, there'sa lot of new vinyl releases
when an artist puts out,one of what are their new albums
and we do the preorder for it.
Those always tend toto sell really, really well to.
How about clothing?
(10:21):
you know, you can't go wrongwith a black t shirt, right.
That's that's really the breadand butter of, of what we do.
So I feel like, black tshirts are really edgy t shirts
and but hoodiesand long sleeves are the,
the core, you know, the,the core product offering.
But, we had that the abilityto get really creative
with, with productsfor our, for our clients,
(10:42):
even on the apparel side, like,there's a lot of custom
made garments that will partnerwith our clients to,
to do the design and the sketchand really get specific
on the type of clothingthat we're,
that we're designing for them.
So that that's athat's always exciting
when we get to workon those sorts of projects.
okay, that being said, thenwhat would be the sweet spot
price pointfor something like that?
(11:04):
Would you say for for thet shirt, hoodie, or a vinyl?
That and also for the custommerch you're just talking about?
I feel like right, right nowt t shirts that it's
selling at concerts, it's,it's it's really 30, 30 bucks.
I feel like thatthat should be the going rate.
You know, obviouslyyou go to some huge arena shows
(11:25):
and you see artistsselling shirts for 55, 60 bucks.
That's a little much.
I mean, I feel like30, 35 is really the sweet,
the sweet spot.
And that's jumped up.
I feel likewhen we first started,
it was still 20, 20 bucks.
And that was pretty standard.
But given the price of cottonand the price of garments
going up so much over the past,you know, the past 4 or 5 years,
I feel likewe've seen that price
(11:46):
kind of push a little bitcloser to 35 bucks,
maybe for a hoodie, 60 bucks.
I feel like that'sthat's pretty fair as well.
And you just mentionedabout custom items that you work
with, your various clients on,and I'm sure
you can get more money on those,but how much more
like on the customapparel that we that we work
(12:07):
with, that we design, they,they definitely sell
at a premium,you know, and I feel like
because the cost of it,it is significantly more
to come up with a t shirtfrom scratch.
You know, those arethose are obviously have more
they're more costly. Butyou know, those those
(12:27):
they're not outrageouslypriced are still in line
with what, you know,a standard black shirt would be.
Yeah. Yeah.
Okay. Here'ssomething that I bet
every indie musicianwants to know.
What piece of merchhas the highest, profit margin.
really depends on the volumethat you're printing,
but I feel like, again, black tshirts, it's a bread and butter.
You can't go wrong with it.
(12:48):
I feel like especiallyand we're always big advocates
for making,kind of a consolidated product
line of 3 to 5 items.
Most.
You know, the last thing we wantis for artists to go out
and look like they have a fleamarket at their merch table.
You know,we want to make sure that
they have a handful of options.
And when you're when artistsare able to do that, obviously
they're able to print moreand really get better
(13:09):
cost. Right.
That's bulk discounts for,for the items
that they are printing.
So, I think that, yeah, t shirtsis definitely the the most,
price, cost effective item.
I feel like if you couldreally get the most margin,
if done right.
now, I know that,you have some high end artists,
(13:31):
but I'm sure you also havemany indie artists
that are playing the scene.
And probably the same sceneyou and I grew up in.
Now, that being said,there are fewer
and fewer venues these days.
So how does that impact,the merch business?
You know, I, I think it, itimpacts artists really at large.
(13:54):
I think it, it kind of ittrickles down, you know,
I feel like less places to play,less options.
Obviously a big consolidationto the Live Nation, shows where
really there they'reinstituted like merch cuts
that the artists have to pay.
I feel like that'sprobably more impactful.
And that really being the normis something that the artists,
(14:17):
especially independent artists,kind of have to be mindful of.
And, I wish there were moreindependent venues.
You know, there's there's,it seems to always be 1 or 2
that go out every single year,which is unfortunate,
especially since Covid.
I feel like that's thetrajectory that it's been on.
So unfortunately, you're right,there are significantly
less options.
And that's really not idealfor, for artists,
(14:39):
you know, or the community.
Yeah, yeah, for sure.
One of the thingsI was surprised
that I read somewherethat one of the reasons why,
clubs, many clubs are going outis because of alcohol
consumption being down.
That would make sense. Right?
who would have thought,you know, Yeah.
The kidsjust aren't drinking anymore.
(14:59):
It doesn't That me.
that does make sense.
I mean,I feel like when I was growing
up, going to shows, there was alot of all age halls.
I mean, we would justmake our own venue, like
we would play at a skate parkor we would play basement shows.
So that's always an option,right?
And when when there's a will,there's a way.
I feel like if, if there's,a community or a scene,
I feel likethere's always a crop of bands
that are willing to get kindof creative and figure out their
(15:23):
own, their own way to do it.
Yeah, yeah.
One of the thingsthat sort of surprised me,
and I don't know why it should,maybe because I haven't operated
on this level before,advances from a mortgage company
to to an artist.
And, I read your article.
Actually,I saw it and hype bought,
and I thought to myself, gee,I had no concept
(15:47):
of that happening, but that'sthat's a big deal, right?
Yeah.
I mean, it's it'ssimilar mechanics and,
that as a record label,right, as a record label advance
and trying to solidify a dealwith an artist for a long term,
contract, it's it's verycommon in our industry.
Okay.
But that's obviously ahigher end artist is doing that.
Usually. Yeah, usually.
(16:07):
Usually.
That's that's really a way totry to win some bigger business.
It's kind of commonplaceto have to come in
with some sort of advanceor something
that that's attractivefor an artist of that size.
Yeah, sure.
What's the most unusualmerch item that you ever had
to create or deliver?
Axes. So we we did axes for,this artist, Ice Knight kills,
(16:33):
we've done hammers fora, artist Kubla Khan.
So, yeah, just that's that'sprobably the two strangest ones.
But I feel like we've donewe've we've done kind of like,
across the board, I think we,I always say, like,
if you could think it, we could,we could probably brand it
and make it into a merch item.
(16:53):
So, you know, we've done, thebeverage collaborations before.
It's like, reallythe sky's the limit.
how easy is it to source stufflike that?
Only because you're upagainst large retailers
that are buying in much greaterbulk, that you probably are in
something like that.
So is there a longwait time to get delivery on it?
(17:14):
There is for, for a lot of thereally customized product,
there is a longerwait time as opposed
to a lot of the cloth itemsthat we produce
in-house where we're able to,but in some instances
we're able to produce a day of.
But if we're if we're doinghighly customized
specific products, yeah,sometimes there's a long wait.
There's a long waiting period,especially over Covid.
(17:35):
I mean, that just that anyexpectations are out the window.
There is some stuffthat we're waiting three,
4 or 5 months for delivery, butbecause it's sourced overseas,
there's always,logistics component
with trying to figure outtimeline and cost
for getting it into the state.
So, it's it's really, you know,kind of kind of a gamble on it,
not a gamble,but it's it's it's,
it has its own elements.
(17:58):
Every time we, we exploredoing a new type of product.
has the tariffs, tariffsaffected, you know, Slightly.
It the tariff on on cottonthat has had an impact on,
on costs for the majority of theproduct that we're producing.
That's really beenthe most impactful.
But luckily it hasn'tit hasn't been detrimental.
(18:20):
Okay.
What don't people knowabout what you do
that you wish they did?
I think the logisticsside of the business and the
amount of tasks and partsthat go into the life cycle
of creating a piece of merchis really interesting,
and I think that it's definitelysomething that I think
(18:41):
should be more well known.
I think that seeing the lifecycle of how
an order comes to be,from the ideation
and putting together the graphicdesign to doing sampling
and then putting together mocksand how it actually runs
through the productionlifecycle,
whether it is produced in-houseor whether it's being sourced
from overseas.
You know,there's a lot that goes into it
and there's a lotof different steps
(19:02):
throughout the entire process.
And I think thatthat's something that's
not as commonly understoodby either
artists or by customers.
And, I think that that isan interesting component
of our business.
And I think it's, you know,I think the more knowledge
that our artists haveand that the better our working
relationship tends to be.
(19:23):
So, yeah,I think that's the most,
least known facet of what we do.
You should probably doa video of that.
we've thought about it and we'vekind of put some videos together
with how an idea becomesa sketch
becomes a piece of merch. Right.
But I think seeing the processof even how the cotton in the
blank t shirts are sourcedand how they're ordered
and how they get delivered toour screen printing shop,
(19:44):
those are all kind of ancillary,things that happen
to come togetherand could create
and create our product.
So it's it's definitelya complex, supply chain.
Is there anything proprietarythat you wouldn't let out?
No, because I think it's justsystems and processes
that we've built over the yearsthat suit our business.
(20:05):
Right?
I don't think there's anythinginherently proprietary.
I think just our team,I think there
throughout the yearsand their knowledge
base has grown.
And it's just the waythat we operate our business.
It's it'sa lot of manpower. Yeah.
What advicewould you give to an indie act?
Let's saythat's looking to get some merch
and just doesn'thave any experience.
(20:28):
I would say keep it simple.
think that the biggestI don't want to say downfall,
but the biggest risk,especially from a profitability
standpoint, would be orderingtoo many products
and ordering toofew of too many products.
So having 25 units of 17different products is like,
you know, it's not the most costeffective way to go about it.
(20:50):
So back to my point. Earlier,I always advise our artists
to try to keep it simple.
Small condensed product line.
And and I and I would say thatmaking sure
that the merch representsyour artistic
brand and your vision,that's that's crucial.
And partnering with a companythat can understand that
(21:10):
and be able to deliver for that,or deliver on that for you
is crucial.
see, I would think it would bepurchasing too much of an item
because of the price break.
At a certain point,It gets cheaper
the more that you purchase.
So I,I feel like the especially now
with the adventof being able to sell online,
(21:32):
which is a servicethat we provide our artists.
Yeah.
You never want to get overloadedwith inventory,
but what's what's good is thatthere are multiple options
for how artistscan sell their merch.
They can go out on tour, right.
And they can sell itat their shows,
and then they have the optionto process the leftovers
into the storeand sell it online.
So it's niceto give multiple sales
channel options to our artiststhat way, even if they do end up
(21:53):
in the unfortunate situationwhere they might have
a surplus of inventory,they have options
for how they can sell it.
to do any print on demand.
We do. Yeah.
And that'sthat's a great option,
especially for new designsand new and new ideas
that maybe are not tested yetand just to be able to gauge
fan reaction, I think print ondemand is a great tool for that.
(22:14):
Yeah, especially for online.
Well,online is the The only yeah,
yeah, I mean,we we've seen artists
use QR codes at their show.
Right.
And they can and fanscan scan and check out online
and it gets deliveredsome of that is print on demand.
So it's really it'salmost like a blend of of both,
you know, online and tour.
It's kind of the, the,the functions of them
(22:36):
are becoming closer and closer.
Is there one problem that youhave in your job that vexes you,
that you wishyou can get rid of?
There's, there's,there's quite a few every day.
Every day is a new problem.
And like I said, it's it'sbecause this is a logistics
heavy businessthat is really where I spend
a lot of my time is trying to,you know, trying to make sure
that we're kind of protectedat all areas
(22:59):
and that there aren'tany landmines
with our supply chain.
There's a lot like I said,there's a lot of different tasks
and at different pointsto the product to be ordered
and actually deliveredto the customers.
So that is wherea lot of the pain points come.
You know, wherea simple UPS missed delivery
or having the, the, the boxesdeliver an hour late
(23:19):
can really could really screwthings up for, for a band.
So you know, there's a lotof the details and logistics
that, that, that, thattake up a lot of my day.
taking a step backand taking the 10,000ft view.
Consideringwhere you're at in the business,
you have a unique viewpointon this.
Do you see any trendsin the music business
(23:42):
that affect what you do? Yes.
I mean, I think that thethere's, there's
there's definitelya lot of trends
in terms of direct to consumerand fan engagement that directly
impacts our business.
I think the abilityto have a custom web store
that also doublesas your main website,
(24:03):
that also doubles as your fanclub and your VIP ticketing hub.
I think that the consolidationand everything kind of being
artist centeredand not having to lean on third
party channelsto be able to sell these things,
I think that's a big trendthat we're seeing,
that we have been seeing reallyfor the past ten years.
And that's really somethingthat I feel like
(24:25):
we caught on too early,which is why we've always
pushed to have artists sellingthrough their own custom stores
that we build them,and we want to make that
the central hubfor all of their business.
Right. We we would love.
We lovewhen they sell their VIP tickets
through their website,and they do
custom content and song releasesthrough the website,
(24:45):
because that is really a channelthat they own that they can use
to best connect directlywith their audience.
So that's probablythe biggest trend that
I've been seeing over the past.
Call it ten years, thatdirectly impacts
our area of the business.
now. I knowyou help them with e-commerce,
but does that also includeputting together
a site for them as well?
(25:05):
I know there's an e-commercecomponent there, but would.
But it also includeeverything else Oh yeah,
oh yeah.
We build the sitefrom beginning to end.
We take careof all of the e-commerce design
and all of the webstoremaintenance,
and we help them at every stepof the way
for their for their e-commercesite built.
okay, that's very coolSo we try to make it easy.
that solves a lot of problems,doesn't it.
(25:26):
Yeah, I'd say yeah.
But especially you know,it used to be so difficult.
I feel like to set up a customstore to sell product through.
You have to like, learn how to,you know, either
you had to know how to code,you had to hire someone
and paid themsome absorbent amount of money
to build the custom website.
And it's just not the caseanymore. It's a lot.
It's a lot sleeker,and it's a lot easier
to be able to set up a websitein a web store. Now.
(25:49):
Yeah, yeah.
Last question, Seamus, and thankyou for your your time today.
Oh, thank you.
What's the best piece of advicethat maybe
you learned along the way.
Or maybe somebodyimparted to you.
I would say consistency dayin and day out.
Even with the naturalflows of business, I feel like
remaining consistent and tryingto stay dedicated to the
(26:13):
really the thecompany core mission
and your overall goals.
Though it's hard day in and dayout, being able to zoom out
and take a 30,000ft viewon what you're trying to achieve
requires consistency.
So I think that that's crucialfor any for for any endeavor.
Thanks for listeningand being my inner circle.
Remember, if you haveany questions or comments,
you can send them to questionsat Bobby or Sense Wkyc.com.
(26:36):
You can also learnall about the latest in music,
audio and production news,and find out about openings
from our latestonline classes at Bobby
or since wkyc.com.
This is Bobby Oshinsky.
I will see you next time.
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