Have you ever witnessed the transformative power of a community that opens its arms to every member, no matter the challenges they face? That's the heartwarming reality June and Jim Zoll, and Melody and Bob Ruppel have lived as they raised their children, James and Kristen, who both have Down syndrome. In our latest episode, we're honored to invite these exceptional parents to share their compelling narratives. They reveal the formidable struggles and uplifting victories of advocating for inclusive education, where every child is given the chance to thrive. Their stories highlight the meaningful changes that occur when children are embraced for who they are, as James's evolution from 'Jimmy' to 'James' poignantly exemplifies.
Our conversation isn't just a journey through the halls of academia; it's a testament to the enduring spirit of families striving for independence and interdependence for their loved ones. The Zolls and Ruppels offer insights into the importance of forging strong partnerships with teachers, fostering understanding among peers, and the crucial role that parental advocacy plays in shaping a fulfilling educational experience. Listen as we celebrate Kristen's blossoming in a performing arts magnet school, and James's trailblazing path to full inclusion from elementary school onwards. This episode isn't just a narrative—it's a blueprint for hope, determination, and the belief that an inclusive world is not only possible but imperative.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Hello, my name is Greta Harrison.
Welcome to Born FabulousPodcast, Season 3, Episode 18.
The theme of this season isyoung adults with intellectual
disabilities living full livesof independence and
interdependence.
This is the second of anin-depth series about marriage,
featuring parents,self-advocates with support
(00:21):
staff and an employer.
This episode features June andJim Zoll and Melody and Bob
Ruppel.
Both couples are retired andhave been married for over 40
years.
They are the parents of JamesZoll and Kristen Ruppel, who
have been married over fiveyears.
James and Kristen have Downsyndrome.
Now, please enjoy this clip.
(00:41):
Of Love is a Potion.
The lyrics are by MelissaRiggio, who was the focus of
Season 1, Episodes 1-4.
The music and voice are byRachel Fuller.
Speaker 2 (01:06):
Love is everything.
Love is all around.
Love is a potion.
Love is passion.
(01:26):
Love is a potion.
Love is passion.
Love is devotion.
Speaker 1 (01:32):
Love is fusion.
So now let's go to the schoolyears, when we're not talking
preschool anymore talkingpreschool anymore, we're talking
the local school.
So who wants to go first andaddress that?
And I'd like to know, because Iwant the audience to know that
(01:57):
both James and Kristen wereincluded in their school years
and I want to know how thatwhole journey started too.
So my screen is showing June,but I don't know who wants to
start June or Melody.
Speaker 3 (02:08):
The school years elementary school for James.
He was fully included.
It came with a lot ofchallenges because there weren't
many fully included kids atthat time.
Again, I probably used thesocial aspects of being around
(02:35):
regular peers at his first IEPmeeting being very important to
me.
He happened to fall upon acouple of teachers that saw a
lot of potential in him andreally being fully included
helped him with his readingskills.
He's a great reader and spellerand texter because of that and
(03:04):
a couple of teachers reallyrecognized his learning ability.
Because of his lack of speech,a lot of people did assume that
he wasn't very intelligent.
If you can't communicate, thenyou might be perceived as not
(03:24):
understanding.
But a couple of teachers reallypicked up on that and helped us
to include him.
Because it was early on ininclusion, the supports for
inclusion weren't so much inplace.
So it's one thing to fight toget your child into a full,
(03:46):
inclusive classroom.
It's another thing to make surethat they're supported so that
they will be successful in thatclassroom.
So I found that I always had tohelp the teacher work with the
teacher to be sure that she wasgetting the support that she
needed so that all the kidscould learn and that he wasn't
(04:10):
necessarily taking away from theother kids learning.
So I really tried to be anadvocate for the teacher's needs
, even more so than them.
So I tried to work with theteachers a lot.
(04:32):
I would even I remember oneclass I think it was second or
third grade going into askingthe teacher if I could talk with
the students that might nothave known James from previous
years but went in and kind ofyou know, just wanted to let the
(04:53):
students kind of experiencewhat James's disability might
look like, for what he wascapable of doing, what he was
capable of doing.
One thing I did was ask thesecond graders to look at their
best friend and try to invitetheir best friend over to stay
the night and have dinner, butonly use two or three words to
(05:17):
do that, and so they got toexperience how James might have
difficulty in asking them tocome to his birthday party.
Another thing I did was had alittle cut out and pair of
scissors and asked them to putthat pair of scissors in their
opposite hand and try to cutthis out.
(05:38):
You know that might besomething that James would have
difficult motor skills.
So I remember doing that andjust, I think for me, the more I
could help James be successfulwith inclusion, help the
teachers, whatever, the betterit worked for him.
(05:59):
It wasn't always great.
It was challenging at timesbecause of his lack of vocal
skills on the playground.
If things got crazy and loud itmight manifest in anger or
fighting on the playground andhe would get taken to the
principal's office.
Speaker 2 (06:17):
So it wasn't always great but it was necessary and
yeah, that was elementary schoola little thing, go ahead I was
gonna say it was just a littlething that came in right at this
same time period was that jimmyannounced that he was no longer
(06:43):
Jimmy, he was James.
For whatever reason, he becameJames at that time in middle
school there and has been eversince.
Speaker 3 (07:01):
The teacher came to.
I worked at the same middleschool.
He went to.
I worked in the health office.
The first day of school myfriend, his teacher, came and
told me did you know that Jimmyis no longer Jimmy, he's James.
She asked the class the firstday what do you want to be
called?
He says James.
So from then on he's been James.
Speaker 1 (07:24):
And did you say he was in middle school when that
happened?
Speaker 3 (07:27):
He was.
It was the first day of middleschool.
Yeah, so there you go.
Speaker 5 (07:34):
I love that yeah.
Speaker 1 (07:36):
I love that.
Well, a couple of things.
First of all, I love what yousaid about the teachers Because
it's relationships,relationships, relationships and
we need to be allies with theteachers.
And if we have too many chipson our shoulders it doesn't help
our children.
It doesn't mean that therearen't bad situations, but as
(08:01):
Cindy Pataniak, who's a veryfamous educator, said, you know
there's stones in the road andyou have to go around those
stones, or through them or overthem, but you don't stop, you
just try and go around them.
So I love what you're sayingabout the relationships with the
teachers.
That's very important Praisethe great ones and get out of
(08:21):
the situations with the not sogreat ones.
But that was good.
But my question for you is howdid you know way back then to
have them on an inclusivejourney?
Was it the teachers who guidedyou with that?
How did you know that?
Speaker 3 (08:39):
I'm trying to remember I think well, you know
Lisa Hotellan was a friend ofours whose daughter was she was
exploring full inclusion, kindof looked up to for her desires
(09:05):
for her daughter, and I thinkthat was my first introduction
to why inclusion was important,and so I think I heard it from
her probably first.
Speaker 1 (09:14):
And was he included from kindergarten on, or did it
start a little bit later?
Speaker 3 (09:19):
Yeah, so he started in first grade kindergarten.
He was in a class with alldisabled peers and he did not do
well in that class.
So first grade he started fullinclusion.
Speaker 1 (09:38):
Okay, and he was included.
His full journey, correct.
Speaker 3 (09:42):
He was.
He was, of course, middleschool.
High school, in particular, Iwould say, maybe partial.
There were a lot of classes,some classes that he could not
benefit from, so I don't knowfit from, so I don't know a word
(10:09):
.
Full inclusion in high schoolthere were.
Maybe three quarters of theclasses were full inclusive, but
there was parts of the day thathe was not.
Speaker 1 (10:15):
There were parts of the day where he had more
support.
Speaker 3 (10:18):
He did.
Speaker 1 (10:20):
Okay, all right.
All right, melody and Bob.
Speaker 5 (10:25):
Well, when Kristen so she had gone to the regular
preschool, and though so whenshe was ready to start school,
regional center decided to puther in a communitively
handicapped class.
I know so she is.
(10:51):
She did um kindergarten at oneschool with a really great
teacher and then the next yearand she couldn't stay on the
same campus, she had to be movedto another school.
The whole communitivelyhandicapped class got moved to
another school and they did fullinclusion for 15 minutes a day
and I was like so let's not makeour kids stick stand out, let's
(11:13):
just invite them to yourclassroom for 15 minutes a day
as full inclusion.
You know and these were kidsthat um uh had a variety of
disabilities and then one dayshe comes home and she's so
excited she goes, got in timeout.
(11:34):
Today you finally made it intime out because there was like
12 kids.
There was always someone introuble and she hadn't been in
trouble yet.
And I'm thinking, well, thisisn't good.
So then at the time and it mayagain have been through Lisa
Hotel and there was a conferenceon full inclusion in Orange
(11:57):
County and so I drove up and Iwent to it.
And so I drove up and I went toit and you know, this was, you
know, a long time ago, but back,you know, they were trying to
get all this going and so I goteducated, I listened to them and
(12:22):
I came home and I went to myschool district and I said I'd
like to have Kristen fullyincluded.
So I start.
We started with ourneighborhood school where the
principal basically said we'lldo it if you make us do it.
I mean not in that blunt ofwords, was, but was not the
least bit excited about it.
No one had ever been fullyincluded in this particular
(12:44):
school district at the time.
Fortunately for us, we were solucky because there was a magnet
school for the performing artsopening up in our district and
they planned to do fullinclusion from day one.
That was the plan, and so theywere actually excited to have
(13:07):
her.
It was like a miracle.
The principal, rodney he wasout there to welcome her on the
first day of school and herspecial ed support were just
really amazing people thatreally believed in full
inclusion and making it work.
(13:29):
So she started there in firstgrade.
We actually opted to hold herback one year and start her in
first grade and really then shewasn't even in the lowest
reading group.
Um, there there were a fewparents that weren't sure about
(13:49):
it and would approach theteacher and go to Rodney.
I mean that actually happened.
But Rodney said this is whatwe're doing here.
You will have to make thedecision.
The child is not going, and um,we were also very fortunate that
that was a k through eightschool and so she could go there
(14:10):
all through, all up throughmiddle school.
And um, so she had the samefriends and she had two girls
that were pretty popular in theclass that adopted her in first
grade and kept her with them allthe way through eighth grade.
By the time she was in eighthin middle school.
You know she needed moresupport and I actually think
(14:33):
when she got to middle schoolthe principal was a little
unsure about still making itwork.
But all our IEP meetings youknow we were a team Bob would
come, he would bring his suitHe'd wear his suit bring his
briefcase and the first thinghe'd do is say can I get
(14:53):
everybody's name in the room?
Speaker 4 (14:55):
What's your name?
What's your role?
I just want to make sure I'mspelling your names right.
I was the lawyer.
I knew nothing about any of thelaws, everything that want to
make sure I'm spelling yournames right.
I was the lawyer.
I knew nothing about any of thelaws, everything that needed to
be done, so my job was likejust a bit of intimidation.
I'm not going to take no for ananswer.
Speaker 5 (15:14):
So they knew that about us and the teachers were
like I still think we can makeit work.
And so she went there all theway through eighth grade and you
know I am.
There were many ups and downs,you know.
I have to be clear about that.
It's not an easy path.
One of the funnier stories wasin middle school.
(15:37):
She really, of course, likedthe most popular boy in the
school and so she went in therestroom and wrote names on the
bathroom walls, you know,because other kids did that,
right, and I don't even rememberwhat she wrote.
But I come to pick her up andI'm walking into the school and
(15:59):
first is the vice principal andshe's like okay, I'm going to
tell you what happened.
And you always told me I had totreat her the same way I taught
treated any other kid, and thenalways told me I had to treat
her the same way I treated anyother kid.
And then behind her were allher friends.
Don't get too mad, mrs Ruppel,don't get too mad.
So I mean you had to go to thekitchen and the whole bit To you
(16:23):
know.
And she had to wash thebathroom walls and.
But, as I found out, when shegot older she told me she was
just so frustrated because sheliked this boy and he didn't
like her because she had Downsyndrome.
I mean, in her mind that was,you know.
But so she finished there atthat middle school.
So then when she went to highschool, they wanted us to look
(16:47):
at the severely handicappedclass Because, again, this
school district had not donemuch full inclusion.
They actually sent people fromthe district to go on the tour
of the high school with usbecause they knew us.
And so we go to the severelyhandicapped class.
Bob and I are standing theregoing, really, you know.
Speaker 4 (17:15):
So she walks in and she walks up to the teacher and
she goes.
Would you like me to help youin here, Because I like this
class.
Speaker 5 (17:20):
I think I could help assist the teacher and these
administrators faces just went.
So high school was a mixed bag.
It was half and half.
She did three special edclasses with support and then
she would have three regularclasses.
That would be like she was indrama, she did choir, she took
(17:42):
dance, I wish, which wasactually very important because
in the meantime, you have toremember, she's got two sisters
coming up behind her and youknow her older sister's getting
away getting ready to go tocollege and her younger sisters
are taking dance, which, kristen, and I guess that's the other
(18:02):
thing about Vista Academy is.
They incorporated the arts.
So she danced from day one.
She was in drama from day one.
They did music.
The idea would be like if youwere learning about Indians, you
would go to dance and learn anIndian dance.
Like early California history,history and that kind of thing.
(18:23):
So same curriculum, but adifferent way of teaching, but
that helped her motor skills somuch.
All that dance, because kristendoes not, didn't have great
motor skills, where james isreally good at sports and all
this stuff, that's not kristen.
And so then, and so it was amix in high school, um, and by
(18:45):
the time she was a freshman andthe other girls would have been
like in sixth and seventh gradeand they were taking dance and
they were doing all these things.
So it has always been really,really important to Kristen that
she got to do all the thingsher sisters got to do.
Speaker 4 (19:04):
And her sisters were always envious of her because
they wouldn't have gotten inthese schools without her when
she was really little.
Back to our previousdiscussions.
When they were younger theycouldn't understand why they
couldn't go down to the specialclasses To help her with her
motor skills or whatever.
But I guess two things I caninterject that I think is good
(19:27):
to say is a couple of things.
One is that when we were inthose meetings that I came in
with my suit and all that, thatthe new teacher for the next
year it was.
It was a big, always a bigmeeting with maybe 20 people and
it was a regional center andschool district and everyone and
the new teacher would just beterrified and she'd say I don't
(19:52):
think I can do this.
How am I going to take care ofa special needs kid and still
give the other kids attention?
And she goes, I don't think Ican make this work.
But every year there was theold teacher who would say well,
last year I was you.
Then I went through it and it'snot a problem, everything's
going to work out just fine andthe next year just so funny.
(20:16):
This is kind of emotional but,the next year, the previous
teacher who was so concerned.
Now she was telling the nextteacher, you know yeah but, also
um.
So I think that's important.
You really have to advocate,not for what the problems are
going to be, but what thesolutions are going to be.
And also because Kristen didn'ttest high enough early on on
(20:42):
those early tests and stuff,regional center said we have no
services for her because shedoesn't test high enough to be
able to take advantage of someof the services and
opportunities we have.
By high school they said, oh,I'm sorry, we don't really have
any services for Chris becauseshe teaches she tests too high,
she's too intelligent to takeadvantage of any of our programs
(21:04):
.
So she got left out in theearly years and then left out
the whole range because shewasn't intelligent enough.
But she's too intelligent.
So I found that veryinteresting too.
So you really have to just pushand advocate.
It's a long, hard journey butit can be done.
Speaker 1 (21:27):
Yeah, I like that you're bringing up that the
teachers were actually helpingreassure the incoming teachers.
And I think one sad thing about2023 is there's so much
turnover that in many cases theprevious teacher is gone.
Oh yeah, you know, which isreally sad, and and I can tell
(21:48):
you that, um it it, sometimesyou didn't know who the current
teacher was going to be untilthe day before because they had
so much they have so muchtrouble hiring teachers and
filling the gaps, so I do thinkthat makes it a little more
complicated.
But I also think it depends onwhere you live too.
(22:11):
I know that.
You know I'm in Hampton roads,virginia, where we have a lot of
military and a lot oftransiency because of that, and
I'm not saying that that's bad,I mean, we love our military,
but I'm just saying that thearea we have a lot of people who
move.
There are small towns wherethey don't have that issue,
(22:33):
where people don't move.
So it does depend on where youare and, just so the listeners
know, I'm at, I'm in Virginia.
The two couples that I'mtalking to are in California,
san Diego area.
So the beauty of Zoom, thebeauty of Zoom, but I like that
you added that the beauty of theteachers, reassuring the
(22:55):
teachers and it's intimidatingto have 20 people sitting at a
table.
It is, it can be.
Thank you for listening toEpisode 18 of Born Fabulous
Podcast, third Season.
I hope you enjoyed it and wantto hear more.
Short video clips from mostepisodes are available on our
(23:17):
YouTube channel and onBornFabulousPodcastcom.
In Episode 19, you will hearthe Zools and the Rupals discuss
more about James and Kristen'sschool years, james' love of
sports, how James and Kristenmet and more, mixed with some
good examples and stories.
Please follow and like us onFacebook, instagram, twitter and
(23:39):
Threads.
Also, please note that allpodcast episodes are now
available to listen to onYouTube.
If you enjoyed this episode,I'd be honored if you would
leave a review wherever youheard this podcast.
Now, please enjoy this clip.
Of Love is a Potion.
The lyrics are by MelissaRiggio, who was the focus of
season one, episodes one throughfour.
(24:00):
The music and voice are byRachel Fuller.
Love holds deeply inside.
Love does not tear apart.
Speaker 2 (24:19):
Love is a potion, love is passion.
Love never fails, lost inmotion.
Hello, my name is Greta Harrison.
Welcome to Born FabulousPodcast, Season 3, Episode 18.
The theme of this season isyoung adults with intellectual
disabilities living full livesof independence and
interdependence.
This is the second of anin-depth series about marriage,
featuring parents,self-advocates with support
(00:21):
staff and an employer.
This episode features June andJim Zoll and Melody and Bob
Ruppel.
Both couples are retired andhave been married for over 40
years.
They are the parents of JamesZoll and Kristen Ruppel, who
have been married over fiveyears.
James and Kristen have Downsyndrome.
Now, please enjoy this clip.
(00:41):
Of Love is a Potion.
The lyrics are by MelissaRiggio, who was the focus of
Season 1, Episodes 1-4.
The music and voice are byRachel Fuller.
Speaker 2 (01:06):
Love is everything.
Love is all around.
Love is a potion.
Love is passion.
(01:26):
Love is a potion.
Love is passion.
Love is devotion.
Speaker 1 (01:32):
Love is fusion.
So now let's go to the schoolyears, when we're not talking
preschool anymore talkingpreschool anymore, we're talking
the local school.
So who wants to go first andaddress that?
And I'd like to know, because Iwant the audience to know that
(01:57):
both James and Kristen wereincluded in their school years
and I want to know how thatwhole journey started too.
So my screen is showing June,but I don't know who wants to
start June or Melody.
Speaker 3 (02:08):
The school years elementary school for James.
He was fully included.
It came with a lot ofchallenges because there weren't
many fully included kids atthat time.
Again, I probably used thesocial aspects of being around
(02:35):
regular peers at his first IEPmeeting being very important to
me.
He happened to fall upon acouple of teachers that saw a
lot of potential in him andreally being fully included
helped him with his readingskills.
He's a great reader and spellerand texter because of that and
(03:04):
a couple of teachers reallyrecognized his learning ability.
Because of his lack of speech,a lot of people did assume that
he wasn't very intelligent.
If you can't communicate, thenyou might be perceived as not
(03:24):
understanding.
But a couple of teachers reallypicked up on that and helped us
to include him.
Because it was early on ininclusion, the supports for
inclusion weren't so much inplace.
So it's one thing to fight toget your child into a full,
(03:46):
inclusive classroom.
It's another thing to make surethat they're supported so that
they will be successful in thatclassroom.
So I found that I always had tohelp the teacher work with the
teacher to be sure that she wasgetting the support that she
needed so that all the kidscould learn and that he wasn't
(04:10):
necessarily taking away from theother kids learning.
So I really tried to be anadvocate for the teacher's needs
, even more so than them.
So I tried to work with theteachers a lot.
(04:32):
I would even I remember oneclass I think it was second or
third grade going into askingthe teacher if I could talk with
the students that might nothave known James from previous
years but went in and kind ofyou know, just wanted to let the
(04:53):
students kind of experiencewhat James's disability might
look like, for what he wascapable of doing, what he was
capable of doing.
One thing I did was ask thesecond graders to look at their
best friend and try to invitetheir best friend over to stay
the night and have dinner, butonly use two or three words to
(05:17):
do that, and so they got toexperience how James might have
difficulty in asking them tocome to his birthday party.
Another thing I did was had alittle cut out and pair of
scissors and asked them to putthat pair of scissors in their
opposite hand and try to cutthis out.
(05:38):
You know that might besomething that James would have
difficult motor skills.
So I remember doing that andjust, I think for me, the more I
could help James be successfulwith inclusion, help the
teachers, whatever, the betterit worked for him.
(05:59):
It wasn't always great.
It was challenging at timesbecause of his lack of vocal
skills on the playground.
If things got crazy and loud itmight manifest in anger or
fighting on the playground andhe would get taken to the
principal's office.
Speaker 2 (06:17):
So it wasn't always great but it was necessary and
yeah, that was elementary schoola little thing, go ahead I was
gonna say it was just a littlething that came in right at this
same time period was that jimmyannounced that he was no longer
(06:43):
Jimmy, he was James.
For whatever reason, he becameJames at that time in middle
school there and has been eversince.
Speaker 3 (07:01):
The teacher came to.
I worked at the same middleschool.
He went to.
I worked in the health office.
The first day of school myfriend, his teacher, came and
told me did you know that Jimmyis no longer Jimmy, he's James.
She asked the class the firstday what do you want to be
called?
He says James.
So from then on he's been James.
Speaker 1 (07:24):
And did you say he was in middle school when that
happened?
Speaker 3 (07:27):
He was.
It was the first day of middleschool.
Yeah, so there you go.
Speaker 5 (07:34):
I love that yeah.
Speaker 1 (07:36):
I love that.
Well, a couple of things.
First of all, I love what yousaid about the teachers Because
it's relationships,relationships, relationships and
we need to be allies with theteachers.
And if we have too many chipson our shoulders it doesn't help
our children.
It doesn't mean that therearen't bad situations, but as
(08:01):
Cindy Pataniak, who's a veryfamous educator, said, you know
there's stones in the road andyou have to go around those
stones, or through them or overthem, but you don't stop, you
just try and go around them.
So I love what you're sayingabout the relationships with the
teachers.
That's very important Praisethe great ones and get out of
(08:21):
the situations with the not sogreat ones.
But that was good.
But my question for you is howdid you know way back then to
have them on an inclusivejourney?
Was it the teachers who guidedyou with that?
How did you know that?
Speaker 3 (08:39):
I'm trying to remember I think well, you know
Lisa Hotellan was a friend ofours whose daughter was she was
exploring full inclusion, kindof looked up to for her desires
(09:05):
for her daughter, and I thinkthat was my first introduction
to why inclusion was important,and so I think I heard it from
her probably first.
Speaker 1 (09:14):
And was he included from kindergarten on, or did it
start a little bit later?
Speaker 3 (09:19):
Yeah, so he started in first grade kindergarten.
He was in a class with alldisabled peers and he did not do
well in that class.
So first grade he started fullinclusion.
Speaker 1 (09:38):
Okay, and he was included.
His full journey, correct.
Speaker 3 (09:42):
He was.
He was, of course, middleschool.
High school, in particular, Iwould say, maybe partial.
There were a lot of classes,some classes that he could not
benefit from, so I don't knowfit from, so I don't know a word
(10:09):
.
Full inclusion in high schoolthere were.
Maybe three quarters of theclasses were full inclusive, but
there was parts of the day thathe was not.
Speaker 1 (10:15):
There were parts of the day where he had more
support.
Speaker 3 (10:18):
He did.
Speaker 1 (10:20):
Okay, all right.
All right, melody and Bob.
Speaker 5 (10:25):
Well, when Kristen so she had gone to the regular
preschool, and though so whenshe was ready to start school,
regional center decided to puther in a communitively
handicapped class.
I know so she is.
(10:51):
She did um kindergarten at oneschool with a really great
teacher and then the next yearand she couldn't stay on the
same campus, she had to be movedto another school.
The whole communitivelyhandicapped class got moved to
another school and they did fullinclusion for 15 minutes a day
and I was like so let's not makeour kids stick stand out, let's
(11:13):
just invite them to yourclassroom for 15 minutes a day
as full inclusion.
You know and these were kidsthat um uh had a variety of
disabilities and then one dayshe comes home and she's so
excited she goes, got in timeout.
(11:34):
Today you finally made it intime out because there was like
12 kids.
There was always someone introuble and she hadn't been in
trouble yet.
And I'm thinking, well, thisisn't good.
So then at the time and it mayagain have been through Lisa
Hotel and there was a conferenceon full inclusion in Orange
(11:57):
County and so I drove up and Iwent to it.
And so I drove up and I went toit and you know, this was, you
know, a long time ago, but back,you know, they were trying to
get all this going and so I goteducated, I listened to them and
(12:22):
I came home and I went to myschool district and I said I'd
like to have Kristen fullyincluded.
So I start.
We started with ourneighborhood school where the
principal basically said we'lldo it if you make us do it.
I mean not in that blunt ofwords, was, but was not the
least bit excited about it.
No one had ever been fullyincluded in this particular
(12:44):
school district at the time.
Fortunately for us, we were solucky because there was a magnet
school for the performing artsopening up in our district and
they planned to do fullinclusion from day one.
That was the plan, and so theywere actually excited to have
(13:07):
her.
It was like a miracle.
The principal, rodney he wasout there to welcome her on the
first day of school and herspecial ed support were just
really amazing people thatreally believed in full
inclusion and making it work.
(13:29):
So she started there in firstgrade.
We actually opted to hold herback one year and start her in
first grade and really then shewasn't even in the lowest
reading group.
Um, there there were a fewparents that weren't sure about
(13:49):
it and would approach theteacher and go to Rodney.
I mean that actually happened.
But Rodney said this is whatwe're doing here.
You will have to make thedecision.
The child is not going, and um,we were also very fortunate that
that was a k through eightschool and so she could go there
(14:10):
all through, all up throughmiddle school.
And um, so she had the samefriends and she had two girls
that were pretty popular in theclass that adopted her in first
grade and kept her with them allthe way through eighth grade.
By the time she was in eighthin middle school.
You know she needed moresupport and I actually think
(14:33):
when she got to middle schoolthe principal was a little
unsure about still making itwork.
But all our IEP meetings youknow we were a team Bob would
come, he would bring his suitHe'd wear his suit bring his
briefcase and the first thinghe'd do is say can I get
(14:53):
everybody's name in the room?
Speaker 4 (14:55):
What's your name?
What's your role?
I just want to make sure I'mspelling your names right.
I was the lawyer.
I knew nothing about any of thelaws, everything that want to
make sure I'm spelling yournames right.
I was the lawyer.
I knew nothing about any of thelaws, everything that needed to
be done, so my job was likejust a bit of intimidation.
I'm not going to take no for ananswer.
Speaker 5 (15:14):
So they knew that about us and the teachers were
like I still think we can makeit work.
And so she went there all theway through eighth grade and you
know I am.
There were many ups and downs,you know.
I have to be clear about that.
It's not an easy path.
One of the funnier stories wasin middle school.
(15:37):
She really, of course, likedthe most popular boy in the
school and so she went in therestroom and wrote names on the
bathroom walls, you know,because other kids did that,
right, and I don't even rememberwhat she wrote.
But I come to pick her up andI'm walking into the school and
(15:59):
first is the vice principal andshe's like okay, I'm going to
tell you what happened.
And you always told me I had totreat her the same way I taught
treated any other kid, and thenalways told me I had to treat
her the same way I treated anyother kid.
And then behind her were allher friends.
Don't get too mad, mrs Ruppel,don't get too mad.
So I mean you had to go to thekitchen and the whole bit To you
(16:23):
know.
And she had to wash thebathroom walls and.
But, as I found out, when shegot older she told me she was
just so frustrated because sheliked this boy and he didn't
like her because she had Downsyndrome.
I mean, in her mind that was,you know.
But so she finished there atthat middle school.
So then when she went to highschool, they wanted us to look
(16:47):
at the severely handicappedclass Because, again, this
school district had not donemuch full inclusion.
They actually sent people fromthe district to go on the tour
of the high school with usbecause they knew us.
And so we go to the severelyhandicapped class.
Bob and I are standing theregoing, really, you know.
Speaker 4 (17:15):
So she walks in and she walks up to the teacher and
she goes.
Would you like me to help youin here, Because I like this
class.
Speaker 5 (17:20):
I think I could help assist the teacher and these
administrators faces just went.
So high school was a mixed bag.
It was half and half.
She did three special edclasses with support and then
she would have three regularclasses.
That would be like she was indrama, she did choir, she took
(17:42):
dance, I wish, which wasactually very important because
in the meantime, you have toremember, she's got two sisters
coming up behind her and youknow her older sister's getting
away getting ready to go tocollege and her younger sisters
are taking dance, which, kristen, and I guess that's the other
(18:02):
thing about Vista Academy is.
They incorporated the arts.
So she danced from day one.
She was in drama from day one.
They did music.
The idea would be like if youwere learning about Indians, you
would go to dance and learn anIndian dance.
Like early California history,history and that kind of thing.
(18:23):
So same curriculum, but adifferent way of teaching, but
that helped her motor skills somuch.
All that dance, because kristendoes not, didn't have great
motor skills, where james isreally good at sports and all
this stuff, that's not kristen.
And so then, and so it was amix in high school, um, and by
(18:45):
the time she was a freshman andthe other girls would have been
like in sixth and seventh gradeand they were taking dance and
they were doing all these things.
So it has always been really,really important to Kristen that
she got to do all the thingsher sisters got to do.
Speaker 4 (19:04):
And her sisters were always envious of her because
they wouldn't have gotten inthese schools without her when
she was really little.
Back to our previousdiscussions.
When they were younger theycouldn't understand why they
couldn't go down to the specialclasses To help her with her
motor skills or whatever.
But I guess two things I caninterject that I think is good
(19:27):
to say is a couple of things.
One is that when we were inthose meetings that I came in
with my suit and all that, thatthe new teacher for the next
year it was.
It was a big, always a bigmeeting with maybe 20 people and
it was a regional center andschool district and everyone and
the new teacher would just beterrified and she'd say I don't
(19:52):
think I can do this.
How am I going to take care ofa special needs kid and still
give the other kids attention?
And she goes, I don't think Ican make this work.
But every year there was theold teacher who would say well,
last year I was you.
Then I went through it and it'snot a problem, everything's
going to work out just fine andthe next year just so funny.
(20:16):
This is kind of emotional but,the next year, the previous
teacher who was so concerned.
Now she was telling the nextteacher, you know yeah but, also
um.
So I think that's important.
You really have to advocate,not for what the problems are
going to be, but what thesolutions are going to be.
And also because Kristen didn'ttest high enough early on on
(20:42):
those early tests and stuff,regional center said we have no
services for her because shedoesn't test high enough to be
able to take advantage of someof the services and
opportunities we have.
By high school they said, oh,I'm sorry, we don't really have
any services for Chris becauseshe teaches she tests too high,
she's too intelligent to takeadvantage of any of our programs
(21:04):
.
So she got left out in theearly years and then left out
the whole range because shewasn't intelligent enough.
But she's too intelligent.
So I found that veryinteresting too.
So you really have to just pushand advocate.
It's a long, hard journey butit can be done.
Speaker 1 (21:27):
Yeah, I like that you're bringing up that the
teachers were actually helpingreassure the incoming teachers.
And I think one sad thing about2023 is there's so much
turnover that in many cases theprevious teacher is gone.
Oh yeah, you know, which isreally sad, and and I can tell
(21:48):
you that, um it it, sometimesyou didn't know who the current
teacher was going to be untilthe day before because they had
so much they have so muchtrouble hiring teachers and
filling the gaps, so I do thinkthat makes it a little more
complicated.
But I also think it depends onwhere you live too.
(22:11):
I know that.
You know I'm in Hampton roads,virginia, where we have a lot of
military and a lot oftransiency because of that, and
I'm not saying that that's bad,I mean, we love our military,
but I'm just saying that thearea we have a lot of people who
move.
There are small towns wherethey don't have that issue,
(22:33):
where people don't move.
So it does depend on where youare and, just so the listeners
know, I'm at, I'm in Virginia.
The two couples that I'mtalking to are in California,
san Diego area.
So the beauty of Zoom, thebeauty of Zoom, but I like that
you added that the beauty of theteachers, reassuring the
(22:55):
teachers and it's intimidatingto have 20 people sitting at a
table.
It is, it can be.
Thank you for listening toEpisode 18 of Born Fabulous
Podcast, third Season.
I hope you enjoyed it and wantto hear more.
Short video clips from mostepisodes are available on our
(23:17):
YouTube channel and onBornFabulousPodcastcom.
In Episode 19, you will hearthe Zools and the Rupals discuss
more about James and Kristen'sschool years, james' love of
sports, how James and Kristenmet and more, mixed with some
good examples and stories.
Please follow and like us onFacebook, instagram, twitter and
(23:39):
Threads.
Also, please note that allpodcast episodes are now
available to listen to onYouTube.
If you enjoyed this episode,I'd be honored if you would
leave a review wherever youheard this podcast.
Now, please enjoy this clip.
Of Love is a Potion.
The lyrics are by MelissaRiggio, who was the focus of
season one, episodes one throughfour.
(24:00):
The music and voice are byRachel Fuller.
Love holds deeply inside.
Love does not tear apart.
Speaker 2 (24:19):
Love is a potion, love is passion.
Love never fails, lost inmotion.
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