Have you ever witnessed a moment that beautifully defies the odds? That's precisely what we unravel in our latest conversation with June and Jim Zoll, and Melody and Bob Ruppel, as we celebrate the extraordinary lives led by their children, James Zoll and Kristen Ruppel. This pair of young adults, bound by love and a shared experience of Down syndrome, take us on a journey marked by achievements in sports, arts, and the blossoming of a heartfelt romance. Their story is not just one of personal triumph but also a testament to the power of inclusion and the indomitable spirit of the human heart.
Together, we reflect on James's vibrant involvement in the Special Olympics and the pivotal role sports played in enhancing his social skills and self-esteem. His segue into high school extracurriculars, such as chorus and varsity basketball, exemplifies the importance of inclusive opportunities. Kristen's artistic pursuits, beginning in a K-8 arts magnet school and evolving through her high school experience, illuminate her journey towards independence and highlight the significant strides she has made. The narrative of how a summer of friendship turned into a lifetime of love, marked by James's touching birthday proposal, underscores not just the individual stories of James and Kristen, but the universal longing for connection. Join us as we discuss the vital balance between integration and fostering relationships within the disability community, and witness firsthand the creation of initiatives that pave the way for a more inclusive world.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Greta Harrison (00:00):
Hello, my name is Greta Harrison.
Welcome to Born FabulousPodcast, season 3, episode 19.
The theme of this season isyoung adults with intellectual
disabilities living full livesof independence and
interdependence.
This episode features June andJim Zoul and Melody and Bob
Rupple.
It is the second of eightepisodes with the Zouls and the
(00:22):
Rupples, which is part of anin-depth series about marriage
featuring parents,self-advocates with support
staff and an employer.
Both the Zouls and the Rupplesare retired and have been
married over 40 years.
They are the parents of JamesZoul and Kristen Rupple, who
have been married over fiveyears.
James and Kristen have Downsyndrome.
(00:42):
Now please enjoy this clip.
Of Love is a Potion.
The lyrics are by MelissaRiggio, who was the focus of
Season 1, episodes 1 through 4.
The music and the voice are byRachel Fuller.
Rachel Fuller (01:09):
Love is everything.
Love is all around.
Love is not hopeless.
Love is patient.
Love will not stop.
Jim Zoul (01:26):
Love is an ocean.
Greta Harrison (01:39):
Bob mentioned that James is good at sports.
Do you want to delve into whenhe started playing sports and
just give a little bit of thatjourney for the parents who are
interested in putting theirchildren in sports?
Jim Zoul (01:53):
Yeah, I'll get into that with you.
James actually started at apretty early age.
He was fortunate enough to havesome Special Olympics
opportunities and he was very,very enthusiastic about being
(02:14):
involved in whatever it wasgoing on at that time and he
seemed to really enjoy it.
And he seemed to really enjoyit and it was a good opportunity
for him to interact and makenew friends and to this day
(02:40):
they're still quite active inthe Special Olympics, although
the COVID made a pretty big hiton it.
But it seems to be coming backnow fairly well.
And you know, it's just a greatopportunity for him to interact
with the other athletes andthat, and for me it's been
(03:08):
really rewarding to watch theinteraction of these people.
You know, they're just sogenuine to each other.
You know, even though they allhave what we term disabilities,
it doesn't matter to them, theyjust um, they just get along
(03:32):
well and they love each otherand they root for each other.
And, gretta, you mentioned thatmovie champions to do yeah, and
we went, we watched it oh, youdid okay oh yeah, and so the the
ending of that movie is aperfect example, you know, of
(03:55):
what I'm trying to make a pointof here.
So, yeah, this the sports hasbeen a big, a big boost for
james, and even to this day hestill enjoys the opportunities.
Greta Harrison (04:10):
Which particular sports does he like the best?
June Zoul (04:18):
Well, I think he likes his eye-handball
coordination, so he likes bocceball, he likes bowling, he likes
to shoot pool, he likesBaseball.
When he played, baseball heliked that.
He does love to play just aboutany sport and he's quite good
(04:44):
at it.
He does like it.
Jim Zoul (04:50):
One thing in his years he's come to.
He's not a big fan of Losing,Sweating or suffering and you
know, he like, like he liked toplay soccer, you know, but he
(05:14):
pretty soon he learned that andthis is like too much that's a
good point and in the years hedid not like to lose.
June Zoul (05:25):
He was not and he's still not.
But it's much better if heloses.
Jim Zoul (05:32):
He's pretty pissed for a while no, he's changed in
that respect a lot, much betterhe was terrible.
Yeah, he didn't want to bearound a guy you know.
But now he's so much better now.
Greta Harrison (05:48):
So did he ever play sports outside of Special
Olympics in any communityleagues or school or anything
like that, or was it alwaysSpecial Olympics?
June Zoul (05:59):
It's been Special Olympics.
I will say, though, just realquickly, in high school he did
participate in extracurricular.
He, as well as Kristen, did thechorus and performed at the
Arts Center Christmas programsand he actually was a part of
(06:23):
the varsity basketball team atthe high school for four years.
So the varsity basketball coachwas James' adaptive PE teacher
at the middle school, he becamethe coach at the high school,
took James under his wing, toldme, don't worry, he can travel
on the away buses with us to theaway games, and the whole
(06:49):
social aspect of being one ofthe team members on the high
school team or being part of thechorus or gave him so much
feeling of being part of thegroups and and it gave him more
(07:09):
than I can even say hisconfidence level in himself
walking into, you know, thebasketball court.
They ended up winning CIF SanDiego County Championship at the
Civic in downtown San Diego.
The CIF Championship Basketballin his senior year traveled
(07:32):
with the bus down there and justyeah, any extracurricular
activities where they can bemore involved with regular peers
is pretty cool.
Greta Harrison (07:49):
Now that reminds me when it comes to Bob and
Melody.
I just want to clarify.
I know Kristen was in the Kthrough eight arts magnet school
.
Was her high school in the sametrack?
Was it a arts magnet highschool?
No, it was not.
It was not a regular highschool.
It was a regular high school,but she had had that preparation
(08:11):
at the k through eight schoolyou know, she had a great.
Melody Rupple (08:14):
She had a great, yeah, great foundation built
really right, right and, and shereally so you know I, I guess
when she went to high school wegot the story yeah, she uh we,
we were pretty freaked out aboutit because she had to go to six
different classrooms and allthat kind of stuff, and so and
(08:35):
Bob took her, I took her on.
Sunday before the class onMonday and walked around Right.
But we were pretty anxiousabout hearing how the first day
of school went.
You know they had assignedsomebody to be her chaperone and
make sure she got from class toclass, and then they were very
helpful.
I mean it was very positivething.
(08:56):
But at the end of the day wegot a phone call from the school
that says Kristen had a goodday today.
But we just have to let youknow that she fired her aide.
She did because she knew whatshe was supposed to be wearing
she just didn't want to.
By this age she realized okay, Idon't want to stand out.
(09:17):
I, you know, want to fit in,you know so james and kristin
are both very determined people.
Yeah, it makes it interesting asa couple because it's
challenging for them both attimes.
Greta Harrison (09:33):
Yeah, he's very assertive, um, but they also
support each other, sowonderfully so I love that story
because I have to mention do doeither of you know who kayla
mckeown is.
She's the first lobbyist withdown syndrome, the first
professional lobbyist yesterdaywith her and that's all I know
about her okay, she's great andshe talks about you know how,
(09:58):
the, how many times the aidswere in the way and whatever and
even kayla didn't fire her.
I'm sure when kayla hears this,kayla's gonna be like I wish I'd
have done that.
I mean that is great.
Melody Rupple (10:12):
I never had the aid again, that's great.
Greta Harrison (10:15):
That's classic, that is.
That is so great that that is agreat story.
I love that.
Melody Rupple (10:21):
And so you're telling me she did not have an
aid in high school oh, no, no,but not the aid that was gonna
make sure she got to her classesand all that kind of stuff.
They just turned her loose sheonly needed it one day, okay.
Sunday with me was all sheneeded, so she didn't want to be
around at all.
I love it.
(10:42):
But she had other aids helpingher with various things and it
was a good environment for her.
And the other girls all wentagain to that same high school
too, and our daughter ended upno, she taught at the academy.
Yeah, our oldest daughteractually taught at the magnet
school while my other girls werethere, so that's Kristen was an
(11:04):
aid in her classroom.
Greta Harrison (11:06):
Oh, that's great , and you must be proud of what
does your older daughter teach?
Melody Rupple (11:13):
She's the one that works for West Ed now and
teaches and trains otherteachers, but she taught
kindergarten and first grade.
Is that Nicole?
Greta Harrison (11:22):
Yeah, okay, all right, that's great.
That's great.
She fired her aid.
Oh, that is a great story.
I love that.
That's a great story.
Did james have an aid when hewas in high school?
June Zoul (11:37):
he did not I think no , not really like an individual
aid.
We did the same as bob andmelody and, you know, took him
the day before high school andkind of showed him his classes,
although what we saw when wetook him was his special ed
(11:58):
classroom that he would reportto in the morning before he went
out for inclusion, was locatedover by the janitor's trailer,
was located over by thejanitor's trailer and I remember
seeing where it was at and onthe first day of school, going
to the principal's office andtelling him that the room needed
(12:20):
to be moved into the center ofcampus and that I was starting
with him to give him theopportunity to move that
classroom into the campus area,which he did, and the principal
and I went on to have a reallynice relationship, but after
(12:40):
that first day, after that firstday, because it was not going
to work.
So, but your question no, towork.
Jim Zoul (12:55):
So, um, but your question, no, no, he didn't
really have um an aid at highschool.
He do remember that sameanxiety, though, that bob
mentioned, about having to go toall these different rooms.
Now, oh, my goodness, how's hegonna?
June Zoul (13:04):
how's he gonna do that, you know, but all these
kids in the hallway and that,but they did great, though I
think that like, yeah, beyondtime, but they're pretty uh,
routine, ish, uh adults and theylearn very quickly.
James learned very quickly toget to class on time and what
(13:27):
was expected on his own.
That's good.
And even after high school,greta, they ended up taking
classes at the local juniorcollege, actually one city over,
where they meaning James andone of his friends they would
(13:51):
ride the train to the next cityand get off on the junior
college campus and go to acouple of different classrooms,
classes that they had signed upfor, and they did this for a few
years.
So I think learning how tomaneuver the high school campus
(14:11):
really gave them the confidenceto go then to a junior college
campus and do classes on theirown, of course, after they were
shown, but they were able tolearn quite quickly and enjoy
the junior college campus for afew years.
James and Kristen were not werethey.
(14:33):
During that time they became acouple, but when they started at
the campus they were not acouple.
So anyway, I've probably goneway too far.
Greta Harrison (14:45):
No, you haven't.
We're about to get there, but Ijust.
I want to hit on a point thatyou mentioned, where I love the
way you said it.
You, you went and spoke to theprincipal and you gave him an
have to follow the ladder.
You can't skip the teacher youcan't skip the department head,
(15:12):
you can't skip the principal.
You, you can't just go straightto the superintendent I mean,
so many parents need to.
You have to follow the ladder,the organizational ladder, and
what you said really hits onthat point.
And that's true, because 99% ofthe time, if you follow that,
then you will, you know, be moreproductive, and I just like
(15:37):
that you put it that way.
June Zoul (15:40):
And that's the way I meant it too.
I think he knew I wasn't goingto stop with him, but so it was
up to him what he wanted to do.
Greta Harrison (15:49):
But you didn't go in there yelling and
screaming and whatever you justprofessionally said.
You know what the problem wasand how to handle it.
June Zoul (15:59):
And I worked for the elementary, middle school school
district, not the high schooldistrict, but I had so many
peers that I worked with in thedistrict that he was coming with
.
I knew I had so much backupthere for the way they did
inclusion and what the highschool district was going to do.
(16:22):
So it's good to.
I just think parents have somuch ability to fight for what
their kids need in the schooldistricts more than some parents
know.
We hold a lot of cards and atmy IEP meetings I remember, you
(16:48):
know, letting everyone do theirspiel, say the numbers give the
facts of what they think mychild can do, and then I knew
that what I I just knew I hadmore power to get what he needed
.
Greta Harrison (17:07):
Then and the older they get, the more data
you have to show yeah I rememberin beginning in high school,
with that great big meeting withall those people, I had all of
the all of we have we call themessa wells in virginia, but I
had all her test scores and Ihad graphs.
I had all the data.
I mean the older they get, themore you can show, because so
(17:30):
then they can see they may havenever known anybody who could do
that before, but when they seeexamples and they see data, they
believe.
But but you're, you'reabsolutely right that parents do
have power.
But I have to mention too, youworked for the school district.
That is very tenuous situationfor many parents, because some
(17:55):
parents feel like they can'tfully advocate because they
don't want to cross certainlines, and so it looks like you
balanced that pretty well.
I'm glad it can be done.
I guess is what I'm trying tosay.
It can be done.
June Zoul (18:09):
Yeah, I think so.
I guess, is what.
Melody Rupple (18:26):
I'm trying to say it can be done.
June Zoul (18:29):
Yeah, I think so.
That's great, that's great.
So let's hear, I think Jamesand Kristen probably first met
and stop me if I'm wrong, but ata birthday party of other
friends that they had.
I'm thinking for me, the firsttime I really met you and Bob
(18:54):
Melody is at one of Kristen'sbirthday parties at your old old
house.
James and Kristen kind of ran inthe same social circle and I
remember driving James to yourhome for a birthday party.
He was dating one of Kristen'sgirlfriends at that time when I
(19:19):
first met Kristen and Kristenwas maybe jumping ahead
time-wise and stuff.
Kristen was dating James's bestfriend, Nick, and James was
dating Kristen's best friend,shelly.
And what I saw when I wouldpick James up from birthday
(19:46):
parties that they were allattending was James and Kristen
sitting together, talking,laughing, having a good time.
What I saw when I dropped himoff was him excited to see
Kristen and them talking andlaughing and just having this
natural rapport.
One time I dropped James offfor a special Olympics bus ride
(20:10):
to another city and the firstperson he got off the bus to go
talk to was Kristen.
So what I saw with them meetingin those social circles was
their just easy attraction foreach other.
Yeah, and so the birthdayparties continues, the
(20:31):
graduation party at the pizzaparlor, just things like that.
And oh, I think I becameKristen's IHSS worker respite
worker.
Respite worker.
One summer I started to give,kristen came to our home and and
(20:53):
so they hung out that summer.
Let's see the birthday party,james's birthday party Kristen
was at.
He got down on one knee andasked her to be his girlfriend.
Were you there, melody?
I was not, I don't remember.
But we all kind of stepped backand went wow, okay, this is
(21:14):
going to happen.
So we had to maneuver the, theuh.
Did we maneuver the breakup ofthe other I?
Melody Rupple (21:22):
think I think kristen and nick had already
broken up.
I mean, that was not tooserious too long.
No, not to.
And, and Kristen always wouldsay he's not my type.
Yeah, so it's interesting.
So it's just that naturalattraction that all of us have
when we start dating.
I mean Kristen was just reallyattracted to James.
(21:45):
She was, I mean, she was, youknow, so excited and she thought
he was so cute and you know,and she kept going what about
this?
What about that?
You know these other people shegoes, oh, they're not my type,
james is my type, and she justknew.
So, just that naturalattraction that we all went
through is exactly how they, youknow, proceeded to get to know
(22:10):
each other and, uh, start theirrelationship yeah, so and then
so, jay, I'm sorry, I was justgonna no no you, you go ahead,
you go aheadyeah, they have a really
close-knit group of friends, aswe've been sort of talking about
who dated who, but, um, they'vebeen together really since
(22:31):
birth and they're lifelongfriends and very active social
life, lots of dances and allthat type of thing, so they had
lots of opportunities to lettheir relationship grow.
It wasn't as though they didn'tsee each other and then rarely,
all of a sudden, they, you know, get together for a date.
They were, you know,socializing all the time.
You didn't have to depict it asa date or not a date, because
(22:53):
it was group activities yeah andso Kristen was no longer with
her boyfriend.
Greta Harrison (23:01):
Had James broken up with his girlfriend?
June Zoul (23:03):
after the summer of, uh, kristen coming to our home
for the summer.
Yes, they did.
Greta Harrison (23:10):
And, um, okay, yeah, all right, so it's so what
I like about that story too isit wasn't their first
relationship.
They had both dated around alittle bit right so yeah, that's
good.
So about how old were they whenjames got down on his knee and
(23:31):
asked her to be his girlfriend?
June Zoul (23:34):
So let's see 1538.
They were.
James was probably 23.
Greta Harrison (23:45):
Okay.
Melody Rupple (23:48):
James was 22.
Yeah.
Yeah, yeah, you know I guessgoing this kind of goes back a
little bit to the high schoolthing.
But one of the things I wantedto say is I spent so much time
getting Kristen fully includedand then I don't.
(24:11):
You're back in the day there wasthis show called life goes on
and it had a kid with Downsyndrome in it and Kristen would
not watch that show and and Ithought she'd be so excited and
she literally wouldn't watch it.
And that was the day I said,okay, full inclusion is really
great.
(24:31):
But now I need to get back tothose girlfriends that she met
when she was a baby, because shealso needs that other side of
life, people that are like herand are dealing with the things
that she liked.
I mean, it was a big lesson forme.
You know that I had spent allthis to try to give her as
(24:55):
normal life as possible but hadneglected the needs of the part
of her that were different andshe needed support of people
like herself, just like we alldo, yeah and uh.
So once they got to be adultsand they had all these social
(25:17):
things to do and they were sobusy, kristen was so happy to,
you know, to have both yeah, sheyou're bringing.
Greta Harrison (25:27):
I'm melody, I'm so glad you said that, yeah,
because you were bringing up.
I had a conversation withanother parent whose whose
daughter is married, and, um, heand his wife told me that they
had spent their whole lifemaking sure their daughter was
included she's about 35 now thatwhen she got to high school,
(25:52):
they realized that they hadunintentionally discriminated
against people with disabilitiesbecause none of them were
included and so, without thembeing included, she didn't know
other people with disabilities,and so they made an effort when
she was in high school to gether involved in a special it
wasn't Special Olympics, but itwas a sports team for people
(26:12):
with disabilities and that's howshe met her current husband.
And my light bulb went off,because I've spent my whole life
making sure my daughtersincluded, fighting for inclusion
, and that's when I, where welive in Virginia, we don't have
regional centers, we don't haveservices at all, we have zero
(26:37):
services.
Okay, so I said you know what Ineed to.
I fully believe you need tocreate the society that you want
to see.
So I got together, built a workteam and we're starting
something called let's Minglewhere I live, so that my
daughter can meet other peoplewith disabilities.
(26:59):
And if you had asked me a coupleof years ago, I would have
never thought that I would dothat ever, because we're so
programmed and I wouldn't changean inclusive journey in high
school for the world or allyears.
I wouldn't change the education, because she needs that solid
education, but the friendship onthe other side, since we're
(27:22):
still not living in an inclusivesociety.
If everybody was included inschool, we wouldn't have this
dilemma, because they would havethe friends with them in all
their classes at school.
They would have the friendswhere they work.
They would have friends atchurch.
But we're not there yet.
So until we're there, we haveto make up for the difference.
Right now, we just have tountil society gets more
(27:44):
inclusive.
I'm so glad you said that.
When I met June in Californiain January at the Club 21
conference, where both of usspoke separately, I told the
young parents I was speaking tothen this exact thing I said I
wished I would have knownearlier stay on your inclusive
(28:06):
journey, but also make sure thatpart of you has your foot in
the quote unquote other worldtoo, because you're going to
need both.
I'm so glad you said that.
So glad you said that You'reabsolutely right, cause they
wouldn't have met each other.
They were different schools,right?
Yeah, and you live 30 minutesapart, so apart, so, and, and I
(28:27):
love that they have this groupof friends that they've grown up
with.
And, Melody, I remember yousaying the parents that you met
when they were babies.
You're still friends to thisday, yeah so that's, you know.
Melody Rupple (28:41):
And those parents , you know, I always say you, I
never would picture myself as asupport group person.
And you know, and in thebeginning you know, oh, join
that.
You know, the Down Center ofSupport group.
Well, it turned out that wasvery valuable.
Yeah, and the same for Kristen,you know, I mean, and those
(29:10):
parents, we deal with thingsthat other parents don't deal
with and so we can talk aboutthat more openly than we can
with anybody else.
So those friendships, juneincluded, and we have a group of
about six moms.
We've been supportivethroughout their lives and you
(29:35):
know, now, as we age, there'snew issues to think about.
And it's, you know, I thinkthat's one of the benefits is
all the great people you meetalong the way.
Jim Zoul (29:48):
Yeah, We've been very fortunate.
Greta Harrison (29:53):
Yeah, yeah, I love that.
Well, I think California, youguys have a lot of cool things
that we can all learn from.
Thank you for listening toEpisode 19 of Born Fabulous
Podcast's third season.
I hope you enjoyed it and wantto hear more.
Short video clips from mostepisodes are available on our
YouTube channel and onBornFabulousPodcastcom.
(30:14):
You can also hear all releasedepisodes of Born Fabulous
Podcast on YouTube.
Now, in Episode 20, you willhear the Zoles and the Ruples
discuss James and Kristen'sindependence journey, mixed with
some great examples and stories.
Please follow and like us onFacebook, instagram, twitter and
Threads.
(30:35):
If you enjoyed this episode,I'd be honored if you would
leave a review wherever youheard this podcast.
Now.
Please enjoy this clip.
Of Love is a Potion.
The lyrics are by MelissaRiggio, who was the focus of
Season 1, episodes 1 through 4.
The music and voice are byRachel Fuller.
You.
Hello, my name is Greta Harrison.
Welcome to Born FabulousPodcast, season 3, episode 19.
The theme of this season isyoung adults with intellectual
disabilities living full livesof independence and
interdependence.
This episode features June andJim Zoul and Melody and Bob
Rupple.
It is the second of eightepisodes with the Zouls and the
(00:22):
Rupples, which is part of anin-depth series about marriage
featuring parents,self-advocates with support
staff and an employer.
Both the Zouls and the Rupplesare retired and have been
married over 40 years.
They are the parents of JamesZoul and Kristen Rupple, who
have been married over fiveyears.
James and Kristen have Downsyndrome.
(00:42):
Now please enjoy this clip.
Of Love is a Potion.
The lyrics are by MelissaRiggio, who was the focus of
Season 1, episodes 1 through 4.
The music and the voice are byRachel Fuller.
Rachel Fuller (01:09):
Love is everything.
Love is all around.
Love is not hopeless.
Love is patient.
Love will not stop.
Jim Zoul (01:26):
Love is an ocean.
Greta Harrison (01:39):
Bob mentioned that James is good at sports.
Do you want to delve into whenhe started playing sports and
just give a little bit of thatjourney for the parents who are
interested in putting theirchildren in sports?
Jim Zoul (01:53):
Yeah, I'll get into that with you.
James actually started at apretty early age.
He was fortunate enough to havesome Special Olympics
opportunities and he was very,very enthusiastic about being
(02:14):
involved in whatever it wasgoing on at that time and he
seemed to really enjoy it.
And he seemed to really enjoyit and it was a good opportunity
for him to interact and makenew friends and to this day
(02:40):
they're still quite active inthe Special Olympics, although
the COVID made a pretty big hiton it.
But it seems to be coming backnow fairly well.
And you know, it's just a greatopportunity for him to interact
with the other athletes andthat, and for me it's been
(03:08):
really rewarding to watch theinteraction of these people.
You know, they're just sogenuine to each other.
You know, even though they allhave what we term disabilities,
it doesn't matter to them, theyjust um, they just get along
(03:32):
well and they love each otherand they root for each other.
And, gretta, you mentioned thatmovie champions to do yeah, and
we went, we watched it oh, youdid okay oh yeah, and so the the
ending of that movie is aperfect example, you know, of
(03:55):
what I'm trying to make a pointof here.
So, yeah, this the sports hasbeen a big, a big boost for
james, and even to this day hestill enjoys the opportunities.
Greta Harrison (04:10):
Which particular sports does he like the best?
June Zoul (04:18):
Well, I think he likes his eye-handball
coordination, so he likes bocceball, he likes bowling, he likes
to shoot pool, he likesBaseball.
When he played, baseball heliked that.
He does love to play just aboutany sport and he's quite good
(04:44):
at it.
He does like it.
Jim Zoul (04:50):
One thing in his years he's come to.
He's not a big fan of Losing,Sweating or suffering and you
know, he like, like he liked toplay soccer, you know, but he
(05:14):
pretty soon he learned that andthis is like too much that's a
good point and in the years hedid not like to lose.
June Zoul (05:25):
He was not and he's still not.
But it's much better if heloses.
Jim Zoul (05:32):
He's pretty pissed for a while no, he's changed in
that respect a lot, much betterhe was terrible.
Yeah, he didn't want to bearound a guy you know.
But now he's so much better now.
Greta Harrison (05:48):
So did he ever play sports outside of Special
Olympics in any communityleagues or school or anything
like that, or was it alwaysSpecial Olympics?
June Zoul (05:59):
It's been Special Olympics.
I will say, though, just realquickly, in high school he did
participate in extracurricular.
He, as well as Kristen, did thechorus and performed at the
Arts Center Christmas programsand he actually was a part of
(06:23):
the varsity basketball team atthe high school for four years.
So the varsity basketball coachwas James' adaptive PE teacher
at the middle school, he becamethe coach at the high school,
took James under his wing, toldme, don't worry, he can travel
on the away buses with us to theaway games, and the whole
(06:49):
social aspect of being one ofthe team members on the high
school team or being part of thechorus or gave him so much
feeling of being part of thegroups and and it gave him more
(07:09):
than I can even say hisconfidence level in himself
walking into, you know, thebasketball court.
They ended up winning CIF SanDiego County Championship at the
Civic in downtown San Diego.
The CIF Championship Basketballin his senior year traveled
(07:32):
with the bus down there and justyeah, any extracurricular
activities where they can bemore involved with regular peers
is pretty cool.
Greta Harrison (07:49):
Now that reminds me when it comes to Bob and
Melody.
I just want to clarify.
I know Kristen was in the Kthrough eight arts magnet school
.
Was her high school in the sametrack?
Was it a arts magnet highschool?
No, it was not.
It was not a regular highschool.
It was a regular high school,but she had had that preparation
(08:11):
at the k through eight schoolyou know, she had a great.
Melody Rupple (08:14):
She had a great, yeah, great foundation built
really right, right and, and shereally so you know I, I guess
when she went to high school wegot the story yeah, she uh we,
we were pretty freaked out aboutit because she had to go to six
different classrooms and allthat kind of stuff, and so and
(08:35):
Bob took her, I took her on.
Sunday before the class onMonday and walked around Right.
But we were pretty anxiousabout hearing how the first day
of school went.
You know they had assignedsomebody to be her chaperone and
make sure she got from class toclass, and then they were very
helpful.
I mean it was very positivething.
(08:56):
But at the end of the day wegot a phone call from the school
that says Kristen had a goodday today.
But we just have to let youknow that she fired her aide.
She did because she knew whatshe was supposed to be wearing
she just didn't want to.
By this age she realized okay, Idon't want to stand out.
(09:17):
I, you know, want to fit in,you know so james and kristin
are both very determined people.
Yeah, it makes it interesting asa couple because it's
challenging for them both attimes.
Greta Harrison (09:33):
Yeah, he's very assertive, um, but they also
support each other, sowonderfully so I love that story
because I have to mention do doeither of you know who kayla
mckeown is.
She's the first lobbyist withdown syndrome, the first
professional lobbyist yesterdaywith her and that's all I know
about her okay, she's great andshe talks about you know how,
(09:58):
the, how many times the aidswere in the way and whatever and
even kayla didn't fire her.
I'm sure when kayla hears this,kayla's gonna be like I wish I'd
have done that.
I mean that is great.
Melody Rupple (10:12):
I never had the aid again, that's great.
Greta Harrison (10:15):
That's classic, that is.
That is so great that that is agreat story.
I love that.
Melody Rupple (10:21):
And so you're telling me she did not have an
aid in high school oh, no, no,but not the aid that was gonna
make sure she got to her classesand all that kind of stuff.
They just turned her loose sheonly needed it one day, okay.
Sunday with me was all sheneeded, so she didn't want to be
around at all.
I love it.
(10:42):
But she had other aids helpingher with various things and it
was a good environment for her.
And the other girls all wentagain to that same high school
too, and our daughter ended upno, she taught at the academy.
Yeah, our oldest daughteractually taught at the magnet
school while my other girls werethere, so that's Kristen was an
(11:04):
aid in her classroom.
Greta Harrison (11:06):
Oh, that's great , and you must be proud of what
does your older daughter teach?
Melody Rupple (11:13):
She's the one that works for West Ed now and
teaches and trains otherteachers, but she taught
kindergarten and first grade.
Is that Nicole?
Greta Harrison (11:22):
Yeah, okay, all right, that's great.
That's great.
She fired her aid.
Oh, that is a great story.
I love that.
That's a great story.
Did james have an aid when hewas in high school?
June Zoul (11:37):
he did not I think no , not really like an individual
aid.
We did the same as bob andmelody and, you know, took him
the day before high school andkind of showed him his classes,
although what we saw when wetook him was his special ed
(11:58):
classroom that he would reportto in the morning before he went
out for inclusion, was locatedover by the janitor's trailer,
was located over by thejanitor's trailer and I remember
seeing where it was at and onthe first day of school, going
to the principal's office andtelling him that the room needed
(12:20):
to be moved into the center ofcampus and that I was starting
with him to give him theopportunity to move that
classroom into the campus area,which he did, and the principal
and I went on to have a reallynice relationship, but after
(12:40):
that first day, after that firstday, because it was not going
to work.
So, but your question no, towork.
Jim Zoul (12:55):
So, um, but your question, no, no, he didn't
really have um an aid at highschool.
He do remember that sameanxiety, though, that bob
mentioned, about having to go toall these different rooms.
Now, oh, my goodness, how's hegonna?
June Zoul (13:04):
how's he gonna do that, you know, but all these
kids in the hallway and that,but they did great, though I
think that like, yeah, beyondtime, but they're pretty uh,
routine, ish, uh adults and theylearn very quickly.
James learned very quickly toget to class on time and what
(13:27):
was expected on his own.
That's good.
And even after high school,greta, they ended up taking
classes at the local juniorcollege, actually one city over,
where they meaning James andone of his friends they would
(13:51):
ride the train to the next cityand get off on the junior
college campus and go to acouple of different classrooms,
classes that they had signed upfor, and they did this for a few
years.
So I think learning how tomaneuver the high school campus
(14:11):
really gave them the confidenceto go then to a junior college
campus and do classes on theirown, of course, after they were
shown, but they were able tolearn quite quickly and enjoy
the junior college campus for afew years.
James and Kristen were not werethey.
(14:33):
During that time they became acouple, but when they started at
the campus they were not acouple.
So anyway, I've probably goneway too far.
Greta Harrison (14:45):
No, you haven't.
We're about to get there, but Ijust.
I want to hit on a point thatyou mentioned, where I love the
way you said it.
You, you went and spoke to theprincipal and you gave him an
have to follow the ladder.
You can't skip the teacher youcan't skip the department head,
(15:12):
you can't skip the principal.
You, you can't just go straightto the superintendent I mean,
so many parents need to.
You have to follow the ladder,the organizational ladder, and
what you said really hits onthat point.
And that's true, because 99% ofthe time, if you follow that,
then you will, you know, be moreproductive, and I just like
(15:37):
that you put it that way.
June Zoul (15:40):
And that's the way I meant it too.
I think he knew I wasn't goingto stop with him, but so it was
up to him what he wanted to do.
Greta Harrison (15:49):
But you didn't go in there yelling and
screaming and whatever you justprofessionally said.
You know what the problem wasand how to handle it.
June Zoul (15:59):
And I worked for the elementary, middle school school
district, not the high schooldistrict, but I had so many
peers that I worked with in thedistrict that he was coming with
.
I knew I had so much backupthere for the way they did
inclusion and what the highschool district was going to do.
(16:22):
So it's good to.
I just think parents have somuch ability to fight for what
their kids need in the schooldistricts more than some parents
know.
We hold a lot of cards and atmy IEP meetings I remember, you
(16:48):
know, letting everyone do theirspiel, say the numbers give the
facts of what they think mychild can do, and then I knew
that what I I just knew I hadmore power to get what he needed
.
Greta Harrison (17:07):
Then and the older they get, the more data
you have to show yeah I rememberin beginning in high school,
with that great big meeting withall those people, I had all of
the all of we have we call themessa wells in virginia, but I
had all her test scores and Ihad graphs.
I had all the data.
I mean the older they get, themore you can show, because so
(17:30):
then they can see they may havenever known anybody who could do
that before, but when they seeexamples and they see data, they
believe.
But but you're, you'reabsolutely right that parents do
have power.
But I have to mention too, youworked for the school district.
That is very tenuous situationfor many parents, because some
(17:55):
parents feel like they can'tfully advocate because they
don't want to cross certainlines, and so it looks like you
balanced that pretty well.
I'm glad it can be done.
I guess is what I'm trying tosay.
It can be done.
June Zoul (18:09):
Yeah, I think so.
I guess, is what.
Melody Rupple (18:26):
I'm trying to say it can be done.
June Zoul (18:29):
Yeah, I think so.
That's great, that's great.
So let's hear, I think Jamesand Kristen probably first met
and stop me if I'm wrong, but ata birthday party of other
friends that they had.
I'm thinking for me, the firsttime I really met you and Bob
(18:54):
Melody is at one of Kristen'sbirthday parties at your old old
house.
James and Kristen kind of ran inthe same social circle and I
remember driving James to yourhome for a birthday party.
He was dating one of Kristen'sgirlfriends at that time when I
(19:19):
first met Kristen and Kristenwas maybe jumping ahead
time-wise and stuff.
Kristen was dating James's bestfriend, Nick, and James was
dating Kristen's best friend,shelly.
And what I saw when I wouldpick James up from birthday
(19:46):
parties that they were allattending was James and Kristen
sitting together, talking,laughing, having a good time.
What I saw when I dropped himoff was him excited to see
Kristen and them talking andlaughing and just having this
natural rapport.
One time I dropped James offfor a special Olympics bus ride
(20:10):
to another city and the firstperson he got off the bus to go
talk to was Kristen.
So what I saw with them meetingin those social circles was
their just easy attraction foreach other.
Yeah, and so the birthdayparties continues, the
(20:31):
graduation party at the pizzaparlor, just things like that.
And oh, I think I becameKristen's IHSS worker respite
worker.
Respite worker.
One summer I started to give,kristen came to our home and and
(20:53):
so they hung out that summer.
Let's see the birthday party,james's birthday party Kristen
was at.
He got down on one knee andasked her to be his girlfriend.
Were you there, melody?
I was not, I don't remember.
But we all kind of stepped backand went wow, okay, this is
(21:14):
going to happen.
So we had to maneuver the, theuh.
Did we maneuver the breakup ofthe other I?
Melody Rupple (21:22):
think I think kristen and nick had already
broken up.
I mean, that was not tooserious too long.
No, not to.
And, and Kristen always wouldsay he's not my type.
Yeah, so it's interesting.
So it's just that naturalattraction that all of us have
when we start dating.
I mean Kristen was just reallyattracted to James.
(21:45):
She was, I mean, she was, youknow, so excited and she thought
he was so cute and you know,and she kept going what about
this?
What about that?
You know these other people shegoes, oh, they're not my type,
james is my type, and she justknew.
So, just that naturalattraction that we all went
through is exactly how they, youknow, proceeded to get to know
(22:10):
each other and, uh, start theirrelationship yeah, so and then
so, jay, I'm sorry, I was justgonna no no you, you go ahead,
you go aheadyeah, they have a really
close-knit group of friends, aswe've been sort of talking about
who dated who, but, um, they'vebeen together really since
(22:31):
birth and they're lifelongfriends and very active social
life, lots of dances and allthat type of thing, so they had
lots of opportunities to lettheir relationship grow.
It wasn't as though they didn'tsee each other and then rarely,
all of a sudden, they, you know, get together for a date.
They were, you know,socializing all the time.
You didn't have to depict it asa date or not a date, because
(22:53):
it was group activities yeah andso Kristen was no longer with
her boyfriend.
Greta Harrison (23:01):
Had James broken up with his girlfriend?
June Zoul (23:03):
after the summer of, uh, kristen coming to our home
for the summer.
Yes, they did.
Greta Harrison (23:10):
And, um, okay, yeah, all right, so it's so what
I like about that story too isit wasn't their first
relationship.
They had both dated around alittle bit right so yeah, that's
good.
So about how old were they whenjames got down on his knee and
(23:31):
asked her to be his girlfriend?
June Zoul (23:34):
So let's see 1538.
They were.
James was probably 23.
Greta Harrison (23:45):
Okay.
Melody Rupple (23:48):
James was 22.
Yeah.
Yeah, yeah, you know I guessgoing this kind of goes back a
little bit to the high schoolthing.
But one of the things I wantedto say is I spent so much time
getting Kristen fully includedand then I don't.
(24:11):
You're back in the day there wasthis show called life goes on
and it had a kid with Downsyndrome in it and Kristen would
not watch that show and and Ithought she'd be so excited and
she literally wouldn't watch it.
And that was the day I said,okay, full inclusion is really
great.
(24:31):
But now I need to get back tothose girlfriends that she met
when she was a baby, because shealso needs that other side of
life, people that are like herand are dealing with the things
that she liked.
I mean, it was a big lesson forme.
You know that I had spent allthis to try to give her as
(24:55):
normal life as possible but hadneglected the needs of the part
of her that were different andshe needed support of people
like herself, just like we alldo, yeah and uh.
So once they got to be adultsand they had all these social
(25:17):
things to do and they were sobusy, kristen was so happy to,
you know, to have both yeah, sheyou're bringing.
Greta Harrison (25:27):
I'm melody, I'm so glad you said that, yeah,
because you were bringing up.
I had a conversation withanother parent whose whose
daughter is married, and, um, heand his wife told me that they
had spent their whole lifemaking sure their daughter was
included she's about 35 now thatwhen she got to high school,
(25:52):
they realized that they hadunintentionally discriminated
against people with disabilitiesbecause none of them were
included and so, without thembeing included, she didn't know
other people with disabilities,and so they made an effort when
she was in high school to gether involved in a special it
wasn't Special Olympics, but itwas a sports team for people
(26:12):
with disabilities and that's howshe met her current husband.
And my light bulb went off,because I've spent my whole life
making sure my daughtersincluded, fighting for inclusion
, and that's when I, where welive in Virginia, we don't have
regional centers, we don't haveservices at all, we have zero
(26:37):
services.
Okay, so I said you know what Ineed to.
I fully believe you need tocreate the society that you want
to see.
So I got together, built a workteam and we're starting
something called let's Minglewhere I live, so that my
daughter can meet other peoplewith disabilities.
(26:59):
And if you had asked me a coupleof years ago, I would have
never thought that I would dothat ever, because we're so
programmed and I wouldn't changean inclusive journey in high
school for the world or allyears.
I wouldn't change the education, because she needs that solid
education, but the friendship onthe other side, since we're
(27:22):
still not living in an inclusivesociety.
If everybody was included inschool, we wouldn't have this
dilemma, because they would havethe friends with them in all
their classes at school.
They would have the friendswhere they work.
They would have friends atchurch.
But we're not there yet.
So until we're there, we haveto make up for the difference.
Right now, we just have tountil society gets more
(27:44):
inclusive.
I'm so glad you said that.
When I met June in Californiain January at the Club 21
conference, where both of usspoke separately, I told the
young parents I was speaking tothen this exact thing I said I
wished I would have knownearlier stay on your inclusive
(28:06):
journey, but also make sure thatpart of you has your foot in
the quote unquote other worldtoo, because you're going to
need both.
I'm so glad you said that.
So glad you said that You'reabsolutely right, cause they
wouldn't have met each other.
They were different schools,right?
Yeah, and you live 30 minutesapart, so apart, so, and, and I
(28:27):
love that they have this groupof friends that they've grown up
with.
And, Melody, I remember yousaying the parents that you met
when they were babies.
You're still friends to thisday, yeah so that's, you know.
Melody Rupple (28:41):
And those parents , you know, I always say you, I
never would picture myself as asupport group person.
And you know, and in thebeginning you know, oh, join
that.
You know, the Down Center ofSupport group.
Well, it turned out that wasvery valuable.
Yeah, and the same for Kristen,you know, I mean, and those
(29:10):
parents, we deal with thingsthat other parents don't deal
with and so we can talk aboutthat more openly than we can
with anybody else.
So those friendships, juneincluded, and we have a group of
about six moms.
We've been supportivethroughout their lives and you
(29:35):
know, now, as we age, there'snew issues to think about.
And it's, you know, I thinkthat's one of the benefits is
all the great people you meetalong the way.
Jim Zoul (29:48):
Yeah, We've been very fortunate.
Greta Harrison (29:53):
Yeah, yeah, I love that.
Well, I think California, youguys have a lot of cool things
that we can all learn from.
Thank you for listening toEpisode 19 of Born Fabulous
Podcast's third season.
I hope you enjoyed it and wantto hear more.
Short video clips from mostepisodes are available on our
YouTube channel and onBornFabulousPodcastcom.
(30:14):
You can also hear all releasedepisodes of Born Fabulous
Podcast on YouTube.
Now, in Episode 20, you willhear the Zoles and the Ruples
discuss James and Kristen'sindependence journey, mixed with
some great examples and stories.
Please follow and like us onFacebook, instagram, twitter and
Threads.
(30:35):
If you enjoyed this episode,I'd be honored if you would
leave a review wherever youheard this podcast.
Now.
Please enjoy this clip.
Of Love is a Potion.
The lyrics are by MelissaRiggio, who was the focus of
Season 1, episodes 1 through 4.
The music and voice are byRachel Fuller.
You.
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