September 8, 2024 • 35 mins
Have you ever witnessed true love that not only defies the odds but also melts your heart? That's the story of James and Kristen, a delightful couple living with Down syndrome, whose marriage is a beacon of hope and joy. As we chat with their parents, June and Jim Zoll, and Melody and Bob Ruppel, we're swept into a narrative that celebrates the couple's five-year journey through work, creativity, and community involvement. From Kristen's dedication to assisting in a kindergarten class and volunteering at a senior center to James's journey from smoothie store to local family brewery server, their stories are a testament to the power of inclusivity and determination. The 'four dudes' and their charity beer brewing only add to the rich tapestry of these remarkable lives, blending independence and interdependence in a symphony of love and support.
When it comes to nurturing the path to independence for young adults like James and Kristen, what does it take? Our conversation with their families unveils the humor, the challenges, and the unwavering commitment required to support these milestones. Dating, cohabitation, and the intricacies of marriage are all navigated with laughter and love, yet backed by the sobering reality of managing support systems and securing funding for independent living. The Ruppels and Zolls share their heartfelt experiences, from the light-hearted moments to the strategic family alignment and self-advocacy, painting a picture of what it means to arrange a life of autonomy for those with intellectual disabilities. Their journey is not just their own but a beacon for others, lighting the way with stories that are as genuine as they are inspiring.
When it comes to nurturing the path to independence for young adults like James and Kristen, what does it take? Our conversation with their families unveils the humor, the challenges, and the unwavering commitment required to support these milestones. Dating, cohabitation, and the intricacies of marriage are all navigated with laughter and love, yet backed by the sobering reality of managing support systems and securing funding for independent living. The Ruppels and Zolls share their heartfelt experiences, from the light-hearted moments to the strategic family alignment and self-advocacy, painting a picture of what it means to arrange a life of autonomy for those with intellectual disabilities. Their journey is not just their own but a beacon for others, lighting the way with stories that are as genuine as they are inspiring.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Greta Harrison (00:00):
Hello, my name is Greta Harrison.
Welcome to Born FabulousPodcast, season 3, episode 21.
The theme of this season isyoung adults with intellectual
disabilities living full livesof independence and
interdependence.
This episode features June andJim Zoll and Melody and Bob
(00:20):
Ruppel.
It is the fifth of eightepisodes with the Zoels and the
Ruppels, which is part of anin-depth series about marriage
featuring parents,self-advocates with support
staff and an employer.
Both the Zoels and the Ruppelsare retired and have been
married over 40 years.
They are the parents of JamesZoll and Kristen Ruppel, who
(00:41):
have been married over fiveyears.
James and Kristen have Downsyndrome.
Now please enjoy this clip.
Of Love is a Potion.
The lyrics are by MelissaRiggio, who was the focus of
Season 1, episodes 1 through 4.
The music and the voice are byRachel Fuller.
Love is everything.
Rachel Fuller (01:12):
Love is all around.
Love is not hopeless, love isfresh, hopeless Love is passion.
Love will not stop.
Love is an ocean.
Greta Harrison (01:42):
Let's talk about what James and Kristen are
doing now work-wise.
June Zoul (01:48):
Well, I guess through the years Kristen's done a
number of things.
You know it's that road to walkof.
You know how much money youwant them to make.
You know there's that wholething um dealing with well, it
impacts their financial servicesthey're available to them and
(02:11):
so you know um yeah it's toomuch money, they're not going to
get services.
Melody Rupple (02:16):
If they don't spend all their money, they're
not going to get their servicesand it's all, and it's a lot
more work on our end.
June Zoul (02:22):
So Kristen has worked in a kindergarten class.
She was a noon duty on thecampus for a while.
She has worked in an officedoing filing, correlating,
(02:42):
putting binders together, and Iguess there's a chance she's
going to start doing that again.
She has volunteered at thesenior center in her community
and she's starting a new thingof helping out in a retirement
home.
Greta Harrison (03:01):
It sounds like she's multi-talented.
June Zoul (03:04):
You know, she just really wants to feel productive
and she really likes the feelingof helping other people and she
likes being active.
Again, just going back to that,you know, doing what everybody
else is doing in their lives.
Greta Harrison (03:23):
And she's a very social person.
I'm taking it, I'm guessingyeah, Okay.
June Zoul (03:28):
Yeah, she is pretty social.
Greta Harrison (03:30):
All right, okay, and James?
Let's hear James's story.
So.
Bob Rupple (03:35):
James had a few different jobs early on.
He worked at a smoothie storeRobex where he would pack the
produce, bring the produce in.
He worked at a gym, he wouldhelp clean the machines and
(03:55):
things like that, and heultimately landed a job.
About four years ago I wasreading our local paper and
there was an article in thereabout this new family type
brewery that was going to bebuilt.
(04:17):
It was two young men that wereowners and they were building
this local brewery in James'sneighborhood and while I was
reading the article I thought,well, this might be a great
opportunity for James to work atin his neighborhood.
So I wrote the owner a letterthe address was there in the
(04:42):
newspaper article wrote theowner a letter about James that
he had been do you think this issomething that would work for
(05:07):
James?
And I put a little pictureactually of him and James excuse
me, james and Kristen's weddingpicture in the letter, which
would tug at anyone'sheartstrings.
And I actually got a call fromthat owner two or three days
later and he was thrilled andexcited and just so welcoming
(05:33):
with the idea of hiring James.
They hadn't completed thebuilding yet of the brewery but
it turns out that same owner.
When he was growing up backEast, his father was very
involved in Special Olympics, sothe young man owner actually
(05:54):
participated in that as well.
So he was thrilled to to thepossibility of hiring James and
was thrilled to to thepossibility of hiring James and
and asked for James to show upat the training.
After the building was complete, james started there with all
the other new hires and and didthe training with them and it
(06:16):
was always very important forthe owner, uh, jamie of the
brewery, to uh treat James justlike any other employee, so had
him there from the beginning andso all the other new employees
were getting to know James rightfrom the beginning.
(06:37):
And the brewery itself isreally a family brewery with a
restaurant and an outdoor areathat has live music and a
playground for younger kids, soit's a very family brewery.
So James is a server.
(07:02):
James is a server.
(07:32):
Fast forward, four years laterit's been a great opportunity
for James.
Work-wise approached James withthe idea of him and some of his
buddies brewing beer there withthe brewmaster.
So the owner had met James andsome of his friends over the
years coming in to eat and hethought it might be a really
good idea that James and hisfriends had the opportunity to
learn brewing beer.
So about a year and a half agothey brewed James and three of
(07:56):
his friends, they're known asthe four dudes.
So a year and a half ago theybrewed their first beer.
Um, it was um, an IPA.
Um, the owners decided, uh, tosend the beer kegs out all over
(08:21):
San Diego or to differentbreweries in San Diego County.
The beer the first brew soldout and the owners wanted to
donate a dollar for every beersold to a non-profit.
(08:41):
That the boys, the four dudes,got together and talked about
and decided what nonprofits theywanted to donate these proceeds
to.
So the first batch was brewed ayear and a half ago.
They ended up having $3,000from that first batch to donate,
so they chose differentnonprofits.
(09:05):
One was called Brains.
It was a horse facility forspecial needs people.
One was a clinic, a healthclinic that saw homeless people.
They donated there.
So that first brew they raised$300.
(09:27):
It sold out.
So a few months later theydecided to brew again.
So everything is brewed underthe label for dudes.
They brewed a second, third andnow fourth time a year and a
half later.
Second, third and now fourthtime, a year and a half later,
(09:51):
they have raised.
Well, it was $9,000 in thefirst three brews, but now this
brew, I think they raised $2,500.
So they've raised about $11,000in donations with their brews
and it's all because of thiswonderful brewery called my Yard
Live is their name.
(10:13):
My Yard Live and the ownershave just embraced James and his
buddies and they love Kristenas well and Kristen supports her
husband at all the brew beerreleases.
She's very proud.
They're proud together andthat's James's job.
(10:36):
I love that story.
June Zoul (10:41):
It really is an amazing story.
Melody Rupple (10:43):
Four dudes brew.
Greta Harrison (10:46):
It's a great story and, if anybody wants to
see more about it, I wrote apiece about it.
Was that a couple months ago,june?
Bob Rupple (10:54):
Yeah.
Greta Harrison (10:56):
It was two or three months ago, I can't
remember.
It's a great story, and I mean,the story is not even close to
being done yet, because they'rethinking about entering
competitions, right.
Bob Rupple (11:09):
They did.
They entered in the.
It was in Nashville.
They had an international beercompetition in Nashville and
they did.
They entered one of the beersthat it didn't place or anything
.
They did.
The brewery did have a beerthat placed in the international
(11:30):
competition, which was exciting, but no, they haven't stopped.
They've done the documentary aswell, which is really good, but
no, I think the owners plan oncontinuing it.
No, I think the owners plan oncontinuing it.
It really speaks to the brewerybeing a family brewery that
gives back to community.
(11:50):
They're really that's importantto them and their goals.
So James just got lucky in thebeginning to become a part of it
.
You know and I think you and Italked about that once, greta
about when something so goodhappens for our young adults,
(12:15):
we're cautiously optimistic.
It's almost like you're waitingfor that other shoe to drop,
like, can this really behappening?
You know we try so hard to,yeah, to make good things happen
for our people that when itdoes we're a little leery.
(12:37):
But at this point, four yearslater, I'm still going to knock
on wood.
But we'll just keep hoping forthe best.
Jim Zoul (12:46):
Yeah, there was a lot of trial and tribulations in
trying to get him a job.
He was very he wanted a job.
He wanted a job real bad.
Bob Rupple (13:03):
He wanted a paycheck for his wife.
That's what he wants.
That's what he would keepsaying.
He needs a paycheck for hiswife there's so much about this
story.
Greta Harrison (13:15):
I want to make sure I hit on everything.
First of all, you say it's justluck.
It's not just luck.
This is a combination.
I always call these God winks.
I don't know how religious somepeople are, but it is a full
circle moment.
I mean, think about what theowner, how the owner grew up,
(13:36):
that made him to be thewonderful person that he is so
wonderful that I'm going to beinterviewing him after I
interviewed James and Kristen,because we need more employers
like that.
So there's that.
There's also the piece whereyou reached out and you wrote
the letter.
You know, and that's if youhadn't reached out and wrote the
(13:57):
letter, how would the ownerhave known about James?
So I mean, you have to patyourself on the back a little
bit about that too.
And and then, and then I wantto add in I can't say enough to
other parents you have to findpeople ahead of you on the
journey and you have to talk tothem, as well as your peers, the
(14:24):
people who are the same stageyou're at, and help the people
that are behind you.
But the people ahead are soimportant and I know that at the
time when June and I met, wehaven't known each other but
eight months now not even eightmonths, seven months now.
But, june, you've been veryhelpful talking me because my
daughter has her dream job andit's such a dream job that I was
(14:44):
going through those We've hadthese conversations of.
Is it too good to be true?
All of these things, and it'sreally helpful to have a parent
ahead of you to talk to thosethings about.
And they can be somebody inyour city, but they could be
somebody across the country andyou know you can meet them at a
conference, you can meet them ina online, in a, in a, in the
(15:07):
various groups that there are.
There's so many ways now toconnect than when you were
raising your daughter and evenYazzie's 23,.
Things have changed so muchfrom when she was a baby to now
how much easier it is forparents to connect.
But it's so important to dothat because I know you've been
very helpful to me through ourjourney and helping maybe calm
(15:30):
me down.
I don't even know what the rightwords are, but a lot of times
just relating because I wouldtell you something and you'd say
I know exactly how you feelCautiously optimistic is in my
vocabulary now because of thoseconversations.
You know we can be cautiouslyoptimistic.
I don't know when that feeling,I don't know if that feeling
(15:52):
ever goes away, because we bothknow some very, very well-known
advocates out there who say thatit hasn't gone away for them.
So I don't know if it does goaway, but it's a great story and
I cannot wait to interview theowner, jamie.
(16:12):
And it's just a.
It's a wonderful story and it'sa great story of how a business
can be a compassionate business.
Um, and I I know I think Ishared with you.
I have a friend in wisconsinwho's working at a brewery and
(16:32):
she has a daughter with downsyndrome and various
disabilities, with the Downsyndrome, and she has approached
her owners because of James'sstory.
You know, what more can we do?
Once you see an example,another business can follow that
example.
So thank you, thank you forsharing that.
(16:53):
You're welcome.
That is great.
James and Kristen have met.
James has gotten down on oneknee to ask her to be his
girlfriend.
Were you both as sets ofparents?
Were you ready for this?
Were you surprised?
And how did you move forward?
You know what were your initial?
Bob Rupple (17:13):
thoughts.
Well, I think I was surprisedat the birthday party.
I didn't realize, you know itwas happening quicker than I
expected it to, so I wassurprised but happy at that
moment that he wanted to take ita little further.
(17:34):
I think we basically to take ita little further.
I think we basically it's hardto remember exactly if you both
and we had a conversation aboutit.
I know they started to date andwe facilitated you know us
picking Kristen up for dances inVista or them going to the
(18:00):
movies.
I know that we, as parents,tried to facilitate some dating.
Is that what you're rememberingtoo?
June Zoul (18:09):
Yeah.
I don't think any of us werepicturing where it was going to
lead, but because they boththeir relationships and and and
but.
Kristen was always differentwith James.
Bob Rupple (18:21):
Yeah, yeah.
June Zoul (18:23):
You know, I mean, it was, it was different, she, she
really liked him.
Greta Harrison (18:32):
And so I guess what I'm trying to get at are
those initial conversations ofwhen you have to reach out as
parents.
How are we going to facilitatetheir dating?
Jim Zoul (18:44):
Yeah.
Greta Harrison (18:46):
Are we going to chaperone?
Are we going to let go?
When do we let go?
That's the kind ofconversations I'm trying to get
at, because obviously theydidn't get married.
If you never let go, youobviously let go at some point.
Melody Rupple (19:00):
So these conversations would have been
through between Melody and June.
Jim and I were on this side,but for us, I think, it was just
transactional.
They'd had other relationshipsand it was really who's going to
take them, who's going to pickthem up?
Jim Zoul (19:15):
Yeah.
Melody Rupple (19:16):
One of their aides take them age takeovers,
that kind of thing, and it justkind of, I think, developed
organically.
Uh, the more they were togetheryeah they didn't really have to
plan their relationship in anyway or how we were going to
handle it.
We'd already known each otherat that point.
You know as well, so we justfelt comfortable with everything
.
June Zoul (19:35):
Yeah, there had been a lot of interaction along the
way, really, yeah, and when theywere in junior college they saw
each other every day and then Iwas back to working full time
then.
So June helped me out.
She would spend some time attheir house and I just think it
(19:57):
evolved over over time and westarted to see that it was you
know, that they were serious.
Bob Rupple (20:04):
Yeah, I think, as as they would approach us with
ideas on things that they wantedto do, places they wanted to go
, we would just support them ingetting them there and not
places they wanted to go.
We would just support them ingetting them there and not.
I do have one story and I'm notsure exactly how it happened,
but James and Kristen were inthe back seat of my van and I
(20:29):
was driving them home fromsomewhere and we were stopped at
a stoplight and they werekissing in the back seat and Bob
, did you pull up behind us,they alongside of us, or
something.
They still talk about that story.
Remember when Bob saw uskissing in the back seat and Bob
(20:53):
said their story is that youjokingly said to James, quit
kissing my daughter yeah, Iremember that and that is very
much me yeah, I always toldJames I was going to treat him
like all my other son-in-laws.
Melody Rupple (21:10):
I mean that not at that time yet, because right,
yeah, but nevertheless anybodyelse.
Just like I always told kristenyou're just been treated like
everybody else.
So that means kidding with you,that means poking out, you know
yeah, I know I I love thatstory.
Bob Rupple (21:26):
But you know they, um, as far as like, um, you know
them kissing or or doing thatnormal stuff as a couple.
I know that because Kristen wasat my home and I was her
respite worker.
If they wanted some alone timeand they wanted to be in James's
(21:50):
room doing the art or whatever,the door would be open.
Um and uh, it's.
It's always a little tricky toknow that, that they need some
alone time to um, you know,appreciate each other and get to
(22:10):
know each other, but still, um,be sure that, uh, it was a
little tricky maneuvering thoseconversations, but necessary
conversations for sure, just toknow that you know that they're
both very comfortable.
(22:31):
Whatever it is that they'rewanting to do with each other
and I don't really mean sexualor anything like that, but just
the hugging and the kissing andyou know any of that at an
appropriate time.
Just that.
For me, having the son, I justalways wanted to know that he
(22:54):
was being respectful of what itis that Kristen was comfortable
with.
I will say another quick storythat I was so happy about James
got a hickey on his neck, and Iwas so glad that it was the girl
(23:16):
in that case, and not being theboy and being the aggressor.
I remember, so we had to laugh.
I mean, so you want to liketalk about what it is and how
James would have gotten thehickey?
So it was always a.
(24:11):
We started to explore for Jamesand Kristen after they dated
five years.
We knew that they were going tocontinue and they both wanted
to move out.
Isn't that is that about right,bob, did they?
Greta Harrison (24:26):
then we started to explore them moving in
together and um, and whenthey're dating, remember there's
what you have is rare, becausethey got married.
They've been married.
How long now?
Bob Rupple (24:44):
it'll be five years this year.
So they dated five years, theylived together five years and
now they are married five yearsso they've been together 15
years.
Greta Harrison (24:55):
I know that, see , that is.
I know that is very, very it'svery cool and, like Bob said, I
wish this was normal.
You know, I pray for the daywhen this is very normal and it
doesn't have to be the subjectof a podcast.
We get to that day.
(25:22):
It is very rare, and part ofwhat makes that rare is the
relationship that the two of youhave as parents.
I mean, it's not just James andKristen, it's James and Kristen
and the families.
So remember that it's so rarethat there's lots of people who
are going to hear this andthey're at the beginning of this
.
When they're first dating andyou're taking them places, are
you staying for the date or areyou just dropping them off?
June Zoul (25:45):
I think we it was a mixed, but you know they're very
capable of going to the movieson their own and uh, that kind
of a thing, I mean.
Or even if we would go out todinner, they would sit at their
own table, you know.
So we've always tried to givethem independence.
And I think, an important thing, this is not something that the
(26:09):
parents drove, kristen andJames drove this.
I mean Kristen, when ouryoungest went away to college,
she called Bob and I and shegoes, I need you to sit down.
And she said Kaylee's gone, nowit's my turn.
I want to move out and you guysneed to accept this as part of
(26:31):
life.
I mean that's literally that.
And I'm thinking I could neversleep again.
I just can't even imagine thisconcept.
And the same with James.
You know the cute story ofJames's were at this big meeting
(26:52):
trying to figure out how wecould make this even work,
figure out how we could makethis even work, and James just
sending a text to the directorof the support agency that we
use, saying, okay, all thistalking, but when am I getting
my apartment?
Melody Rupple (27:13):
That was another one of these meetings with a
huge conference table and BethGallagher, who heads up
LifeWorks, was at one end andJames is at the other, and then
in between you had RegionalCenter and all these other
people and again about 20 peopleall around this table.
And what it really came down towas that Beth and LifeWorks was
just getting to know Kristenand James and they said you know
(27:38):
we need funding, but we don'tknow how much we need yet until
we start supporting them andfind out what their needs are.
Regional Center was understrict budgeting at the time and
said you need to lay out dailyexactly what services are going
to be for them every day so wecan calculate what we can give
you to accomplish that.
And they were just buttingheads on that.
(27:59):
You know, you got to tell usright now what you need and
we'll tell you if we can give itto you.
We got to determine what theyneed and then we can decide.
So, anyway, it just went on andon and on and then finally I see
Beth just couldn't stop herselffrom laughing at the one end of
the table and she looked at thewhole.
Meeting stopped.
So she looks down at James, shegoes.
Okay, I just got this text fromJames and I'll never forget
(28:22):
what it said.
It said blah, blah, blah, whendo we get our apartment?
Yeah, yeah, and everybodylaughed.
They broke the ice and then wecame up with a compromise.
June Zoul (28:34):
You know.
So I mean, it's just importantthat people know it.
It wasn't us getting togetherand saying, oh, let's move our
kids out.
It was our kids telling us theywanted to happen, and to me it
seemed like this overwhelmingprocess and how it would ever
(28:54):
work and how I would ever feelcomfortable enough and and we're
, we're, we're, we're gettingthere.
Greta Harrison (29:02):
But I'm still stuck in the beginning stages
here.
I love that you said it's it'sdriven by James and Kristen.
That's absolutely true.
But all I'm saying is, if thefamilies aren't on the same page
, it is so hard for something tomove forward.
They have to be, they have tohave the same.
For instance, you both rose,you both raised independent
(29:28):
adults.
That that's not always the case.
You could have James be withsomebody who's not independent,
and then it's so anyways.
Yeah, so you.
So you, you let, you, let.
You went on, they went on thedates and probably pretty early
on, they were fairly independentis what I as, what I want to be
(29:49):
clear, and part of that is many.
I am never going to forget it's.
It might be almost eight, nine,10 years ago I was at a local,
the Arc of Virginia, so it's forour state.
I was at the conference and Iwas in the back of a session
that was just for self-advocates.
So I stood in the back justlike a fly on the wall and these
(30:11):
were all adults and to a T,they all said parents, stop
coming on the dates with us,stop, you know, chaperoning us
for 10, 15,.
You know, let us have arelationship.
That was their number onemessage and it's just stuck in
my head.
(30:32):
And I know so many people whoare still chaperoning their kids
for the entire thing years andyears and years later.
So that's why I want to beclear from the beginning you
were like they were being fairlyindependent, they're going on
their dates.
You might help with thetransportation.
Then we get to the point wherethis, this very I can't wait to
(30:55):
meet Kristen, because I lovethis, this young woman who says
who fires her aid, tells theclass, tells the class that she
could be the assistant there.
I mean, I, I, I can't, justcan't wait to meet your daughter
.
Okay, so I can envision hersaying you know, let's have a
sit down, it's my turn andthat's what it was.
(31:16):
So she gave a wake up call toyou.
Is what you're saying?
June Zoul (31:19):
It was, and it really took three years from that
point to the point that shemoved out.
Greta Harrison (31:27):
And that three years was OK.
Did you have like a circle?
Did you have a formal circle ofsupport around her?
I know you have a large familyso that might not have been
necessary because you might'vehad an informal circle.
June Zoul (31:40):
Already At that point we were managing everything on
our own.
I mean, I had arranged to gether to college and then she
would ride the train with Jamesto June's.
And then Bob retired fairlyearly and really for me because
(32:01):
that's the other thing as aparent you have to acknowledge,
you get burnt out.
You know the constant work ofmaking all these things happen I
was to the point of, okay, shecould move out, but I can't
imagine what this would take,right.
And so because Bob retired, hetook over a lot of that and it
(32:25):
was really him in June that madeall this happen.
And I'm very thankful for that,because if it was all on me, I
don't know.
I was like all that paperwork,everything it's going to take to
make this happen.
And then the four of us once wedecided this might be okay,
(32:49):
which is a hard thing, I meanit's a big step.
As the daughter of the you know, the female, or the parents of
the female, you know, we werelike, you know there's just so
much involved in that.
And so once we decided that wewere going to let them try, that
, I mean the four of us had justalways been on the same page,
(33:09):
always worked together so well,enjoy each other's company.
We're so fortunate in that area, I mean, I think that's
probably crucial to make ithappen.
So then we, you know, westarted looking at different
agencies and again, our friendLisa Hotalan had already done
this.
So we, you know, went withLifeWorks, you know, we
(33:32):
interviewed it.
Well, kristen James interviewedAIDS, and eventually all the
pieces fell into place.
Greta Harrison (33:41):
Thank you for listening to episode 21 of Born
Fabulous podcast, third season.
I hope you enjoyed it and wantto hear more Short video clips
from most episodes are availableon our YouTube channel and on
bornfabulouspodcastcom.
You can also hear all releasedepisodes of Born Fabulous
Podcast on YouTube.
Now, in episode 22, you willhear the Zolls and the Ruples
(34:05):
discuss dating the journey ofmoving out, living independently
with support, navigating thepandemic, and more Honest and
funny stories are woven in thisdiscussion.
Please follow and like us onFacebook, instagram, twitter and
Threads.
If you enjoyed this episode.
I'd be honored if you wouldleave a review wherever you
heard this podcast.
(34:26):
Now.
Please enjoy this clip.
Of Love is a Potion.
The lyrics are by MelissaRiggio, who was the focus of
Season 1, episodes 1 through 4.
The music and voice are byRachel Fuller.
Hello, my name is Greta Harrison.
Welcome to Born FabulousPodcast, season 3, episode 21.
The theme of this season isyoung adults with intellectual
disabilities living full livesof independence and
interdependence.
This episode features June andJim Zoll and Melody and Bob
(00:20):
Ruppel.
It is the fifth of eightepisodes with the Zoels and the
Ruppels, which is part of anin-depth series about marriage
featuring parents,self-advocates with support
staff and an employer.
Both the Zoels and the Ruppelsare retired and have been
married over 40 years.
They are the parents of JamesZoll and Kristen Ruppel, who
(00:41):
have been married over fiveyears.
James and Kristen have Downsyndrome.
Now please enjoy this clip.
Of Love is a Potion.
The lyrics are by MelissaRiggio, who was the focus of
Season 1, episodes 1 through 4.
The music and the voice are byRachel Fuller.
Love is everything.
Rachel Fuller (01:12):
Love is all around.
Love is not hopeless, love isfresh, hopeless Love is passion.
Love will not stop.
Love is an ocean.
Greta Harrison (01:42):
Let's talk about what James and Kristen are
doing now work-wise.
June Zoul (01:48):
Well, I guess through the years Kristen's done a
number of things.
You know it's that road to walkof.
You know how much money youwant them to make.
You know there's that wholething um dealing with well, it
impacts their financial servicesthey're available to them and
(02:11):
so you know um yeah it's toomuch money, they're not going to
get services.
Melody Rupple (02:16):
If they don't spend all their money, they're
not going to get their servicesand it's all, and it's a lot
more work on our end.
June Zoul (02:22):
So Kristen has worked in a kindergarten class.
She was a noon duty on thecampus for a while.
She has worked in an officedoing filing, correlating,
(02:42):
putting binders together, and Iguess there's a chance she's
going to start doing that again.
She has volunteered at thesenior center in her community
and she's starting a new thingof helping out in a retirement
home.
Greta Harrison (03:01):
It sounds like she's multi-talented.
June Zoul (03:04):
You know, she just really wants to feel productive
and she really likes the feelingof helping other people and she
likes being active.
Again, just going back to that,you know, doing what everybody
else is doing in their lives.
Greta Harrison (03:23):
And she's a very social person.
I'm taking it, I'm guessingyeah, Okay.
June Zoul (03:28):
Yeah, she is pretty social.
Greta Harrison (03:30):
All right, okay, and James?
Let's hear James's story.
So.
Bob Rupple (03:35):
James had a few different jobs early on.
He worked at a smoothie storeRobex where he would pack the
produce, bring the produce in.
He worked at a gym, he wouldhelp clean the machines and
(03:55):
things like that, and heultimately landed a job.
About four years ago I wasreading our local paper and
there was an article in thereabout this new family type
brewery that was going to bebuilt.
(04:17):
It was two young men that wereowners and they were building
this local brewery in James'sneighborhood and while I was
reading the article I thought,well, this might be a great
opportunity for James to work atin his neighborhood.
So I wrote the owner a letterthe address was there in the
(04:42):
newspaper article wrote theowner a letter about James that
he had been do you think this issomething that would work for
(05:07):
James?
And I put a little pictureactually of him and James excuse
me, james and Kristen's weddingpicture in the letter, which
would tug at anyone'sheartstrings.
And I actually got a call fromthat owner two or three days
later and he was thrilled andexcited and just so welcoming
(05:33):
with the idea of hiring James.
They hadn't completed thebuilding yet of the brewery but
it turns out that same owner.
When he was growing up backEast, his father was very
involved in Special Olympics, sothe young man owner actually
(05:54):
participated in that as well.
So he was thrilled to to thepossibility of hiring James and
was thrilled to to thepossibility of hiring James and
and asked for James to show upat the training.
After the building was complete, james started there with all
the other new hires and and didthe training with them and it
(06:16):
was always very important forthe owner, uh, jamie of the
brewery, to uh treat James justlike any other employee, so had
him there from the beginning andso all the other new employees
were getting to know James rightfrom the beginning.
(06:37):
And the brewery itself isreally a family brewery with a
restaurant and an outdoor areathat has live music and a
playground for younger kids, soit's a very family brewery.
So James is a server.
(07:02):
James is a server.
(07:32):
Fast forward, four years laterit's been a great opportunity
for James.
Work-wise approached James withthe idea of him and some of his
buddies brewing beer there withthe brewmaster.
So the owner had met James andsome of his friends over the
years coming in to eat and hethought it might be a really
good idea that James and hisfriends had the opportunity to
learn brewing beer.
So about a year and a half agothey brewed James and three of
(07:56):
his friends, they're known asthe four dudes.
So a year and a half ago theybrewed their first beer.
Um, it was um, an IPA.
Um, the owners decided, uh, tosend the beer kegs out all over
(08:21):
San Diego or to differentbreweries in San Diego County.
The beer the first brew soldout and the owners wanted to
donate a dollar for every beersold to a non-profit.
(08:41):
That the boys, the four dudes,got together and talked about
and decided what nonprofits theywanted to donate these proceeds
to.
So the first batch was brewed ayear and a half ago.
They ended up having $3,000from that first batch to donate,
so they chose differentnonprofits.
(09:05):
One was called Brains.
It was a horse facility forspecial needs people.
One was a clinic, a healthclinic that saw homeless people.
They donated there.
So that first brew they raised$300.
(09:27):
It sold out.
So a few months later theydecided to brew again.
So everything is brewed underthe label for dudes.
They brewed a second, third andnow fourth time a year and a
half later.
Second, third and now fourthtime, a year and a half later,
(09:51):
they have raised.
Well, it was $9,000 in thefirst three brews, but now this
brew, I think they raised $2,500.
So they've raised about $11,000in donations with their brews
and it's all because of thiswonderful brewery called my Yard
Live is their name.
(10:13):
My Yard Live and the ownershave just embraced James and his
buddies and they love Kristenas well and Kristen supports her
husband at all the brew beerreleases.
She's very proud.
They're proud together andthat's James's job.
(10:36):
I love that story.
June Zoul (10:41):
It really is an amazing story.
Melody Rupple (10:43):
Four dudes brew.
Greta Harrison (10:46):
It's a great story and, if anybody wants to
see more about it, I wrote apiece about it.
Was that a couple months ago,june?
Bob Rupple (10:54):
Yeah.
Greta Harrison (10:56):
It was two or three months ago, I can't
remember.
It's a great story, and I mean,the story is not even close to
being done yet, because they'rethinking about entering
competitions, right.
Bob Rupple (11:09):
They did.
They entered in the.
It was in Nashville.
They had an international beercompetition in Nashville and
they did.
They entered one of the beersthat it didn't place or anything
.
They did.
The brewery did have a beerthat placed in the international
(11:30):
competition, which was exciting, but no, they haven't stopped.
They've done the documentary aswell, which is really good, but
no, I think the owners plan oncontinuing it.
No, I think the owners plan oncontinuing it.
It really speaks to the brewerybeing a family brewery that
gives back to community.
(11:50):
They're really that's importantto them and their goals.
So James just got lucky in thebeginning to become a part of it
.
You know and I think you and Italked about that once, greta
about when something so goodhappens for our young adults,
(12:15):
we're cautiously optimistic.
It's almost like you're waitingfor that other shoe to drop,
like, can this really behappening?
You know we try so hard to,yeah, to make good things happen
for our people that when itdoes we're a little leery.
(12:37):
But at this point, four yearslater, I'm still going to knock
on wood.
But we'll just keep hoping forthe best.
Jim Zoul (12:46):
Yeah, there was a lot of trial and tribulations in
trying to get him a job.
He was very he wanted a job.
He wanted a job real bad.
Bob Rupple (13:03):
He wanted a paycheck for his wife.
That's what he wants.
That's what he would keepsaying.
He needs a paycheck for hiswife there's so much about this
story.
Greta Harrison (13:15):
I want to make sure I hit on everything.
First of all, you say it's justluck.
It's not just luck.
This is a combination.
I always call these God winks.
I don't know how religious somepeople are, but it is a full
circle moment.
I mean, think about what theowner, how the owner grew up,
(13:36):
that made him to be thewonderful person that he is so
wonderful that I'm going to beinterviewing him after I
interviewed James and Kristen,because we need more employers
like that.
So there's that.
There's also the piece whereyou reached out and you wrote
the letter.
You know, and that's if youhadn't reached out and wrote the
(13:57):
letter, how would the ownerhave known about James?
So I mean, you have to patyourself on the back a little
bit about that too.
And and then, and then I wantto add in I can't say enough to
other parents you have to findpeople ahead of you on the
journey and you have to talk tothem, as well as your peers, the
(14:24):
people who are the same stageyou're at, and help the people
that are behind you.
But the people ahead are soimportant and I know that at the
time when June and I met, wehaven't known each other but
eight months now not even eightmonths, seven months now.
But, june, you've been veryhelpful talking me because my
daughter has her dream job andit's such a dream job that I was
(14:44):
going through those We've hadthese conversations of.
Is it too good to be true?
All of these things, and it'sreally helpful to have a parent
ahead of you to talk to thosethings about.
And they can be somebody inyour city, but they could be
somebody across the country andyou know you can meet them at a
conference, you can meet them ina online, in a, in a, in the
(15:07):
various groups that there are.
There's so many ways now toconnect than when you were
raising your daughter and evenYazzie's 23,.
Things have changed so muchfrom when she was a baby to now
how much easier it is forparents to connect.
But it's so important to dothat because I know you've been
very helpful to me through ourjourney and helping maybe calm
(15:30):
me down.
I don't even know what the rightwords are, but a lot of times
just relating because I wouldtell you something and you'd say
I know exactly how you feelCautiously optimistic is in my
vocabulary now because of thoseconversations.
You know we can be cautiouslyoptimistic.
I don't know when that feeling,I don't know if that feeling
(15:52):
ever goes away, because we bothknow some very, very well-known
advocates out there who say thatit hasn't gone away for them.
So I don't know if it does goaway, but it's a great story and
I cannot wait to interview theowner, jamie.
(16:12):
And it's just a.
It's a wonderful story and it'sa great story of how a business
can be a compassionate business.
Um, and I I know I think Ishared with you.
I have a friend in wisconsinwho's working at a brewery and
(16:32):
she has a daughter with downsyndrome and various
disabilities, with the Downsyndrome, and she has approached
her owners because of James'sstory.
You know, what more can we do?
Once you see an example,another business can follow that
example.
So thank you, thank you forsharing that.
(16:53):
You're welcome.
That is great.
James and Kristen have met.
James has gotten down on oneknee to ask her to be his
girlfriend.
Were you both as sets ofparents?
Were you ready for this?
Were you surprised?
And how did you move forward?
You know what were your initial?
Bob Rupple (17:13):
thoughts.
Well, I think I was surprisedat the birthday party.
I didn't realize, you know itwas happening quicker than I
expected it to, so I wassurprised but happy at that
moment that he wanted to take ita little further.
(17:34):
I think we basically to take ita little further.
I think we basically it's hardto remember exactly if you both
and we had a conversation aboutit.
I know they started to date andwe facilitated you know us
picking Kristen up for dances inVista or them going to the
(18:00):
movies.
I know that we, as parents,tried to facilitate some dating.
Is that what you're rememberingtoo?
June Zoul (18:09):
Yeah.
I don't think any of us werepicturing where it was going to
lead, but because they boththeir relationships and and and
but.
Kristen was always differentwith James.
Bob Rupple (18:21):
Yeah, yeah.
June Zoul (18:23):
You know, I mean, it was, it was different, she, she
really liked him.
Greta Harrison (18:32):
And so I guess what I'm trying to get at are
those initial conversations ofwhen you have to reach out as
parents.
How are we going to facilitatetheir dating?
Jim Zoul (18:44):
Yeah.
Greta Harrison (18:46):
Are we going to chaperone?
Are we going to let go?
When do we let go?
That's the kind ofconversations I'm trying to get
at, because obviously theydidn't get married.
If you never let go, youobviously let go at some point.
Melody Rupple (19:00):
So these conversations would have been
through between Melody and June.
Jim and I were on this side,but for us, I think, it was just
transactional.
They'd had other relationshipsand it was really who's going to
take them, who's going to pickthem up?
Jim Zoul (19:15):
Yeah.
Melody Rupple (19:16):
One of their aides take them age takeovers,
that kind of thing, and it justkind of, I think, developed
organically.
Uh, the more they were togetheryeah they didn't really have to
plan their relationship in anyway or how we were going to
handle it.
We'd already known each otherat that point.
You know as well, so we justfelt comfortable with everything
.
June Zoul (19:35):
Yeah, there had been a lot of interaction along the
way, really, yeah, and when theywere in junior college they saw
each other every day and then Iwas back to working full time
then.
So June helped me out.
She would spend some time attheir house and I just think it
(19:57):
evolved over over time and westarted to see that it was you
know, that they were serious.
Bob Rupple (20:04):
Yeah, I think, as as they would approach us with
ideas on things that they wantedto do, places they wanted to go
, we would just support them ingetting them there and not
places they wanted to go.
We would just support them ingetting them there and not.
I do have one story and I'm notsure exactly how it happened,
but James and Kristen were inthe back seat of my van and I
(20:29):
was driving them home fromsomewhere and we were stopped at
a stoplight and they werekissing in the back seat and Bob
, did you pull up behind us,they alongside of us, or
something.
They still talk about that story.
Remember when Bob saw uskissing in the back seat and Bob
(20:53):
said their story is that youjokingly said to James, quit
kissing my daughter yeah, Iremember that and that is very
much me yeah, I always toldJames I was going to treat him
like all my other son-in-laws.
Melody Rupple (21:10):
I mean that not at that time yet, because right,
yeah, but nevertheless anybodyelse.
Just like I always told kristenyou're just been treated like
everybody else.
So that means kidding with you,that means poking out, you know
yeah, I know I I love thatstory.
Bob Rupple (21:26):
But you know they, um, as far as like, um, you know
them kissing or or doing thatnormal stuff as a couple.
I know that because Kristen wasat my home and I was her
respite worker.
If they wanted some alone timeand they wanted to be in James's
(21:50):
room doing the art or whatever,the door would be open.
Um and uh, it's.
It's always a little tricky toknow that, that they need some
alone time to um, you know,appreciate each other and get to
(22:10):
know each other, but still, um,be sure that, uh, it was a
little tricky maneuvering thoseconversations, but necessary
conversations for sure, just toknow that you know that they're
both very comfortable.
(22:31):
Whatever it is that they'rewanting to do with each other
and I don't really mean sexualor anything like that, but just
the hugging and the kissing andyou know any of that at an
appropriate time.
Just that.
For me, having the son, I justalways wanted to know that he
(22:54):
was being respectful of what itis that Kristen was comfortable
with.
I will say another quick storythat I was so happy about James
got a hickey on his neck, and Iwas so glad that it was the girl
(23:16):
in that case, and not being theboy and being the aggressor.
I remember, so we had to laugh.
I mean, so you want to liketalk about what it is and how
James would have gotten thehickey?
So it was always a.
(24:11):
We started to explore for Jamesand Kristen after they dated
five years.
We knew that they were going tocontinue and they both wanted
to move out.
Isn't that is that about right,bob, did they?
Greta Harrison (24:26):
then we started to explore them moving in
together and um, and whenthey're dating, remember there's
what you have is rare, becausethey got married.
They've been married.
How long now?
Bob Rupple (24:44):
it'll be five years this year.
So they dated five years, theylived together five years and
now they are married five yearsso they've been together 15
years.
Greta Harrison (24:55):
I know that, see , that is.
I know that is very, very it'svery cool and, like Bob said, I
wish this was normal.
You know, I pray for the daywhen this is very normal and it
doesn't have to be the subjectof a podcast.
We get to that day.
(25:22):
It is very rare, and part ofwhat makes that rare is the
relationship that the two of youhave as parents.
I mean, it's not just James andKristen, it's James and Kristen
and the families.
So remember that it's so rarethat there's lots of people who
are going to hear this andthey're at the beginning of this
.
When they're first dating andyou're taking them places, are
you staying for the date or areyou just dropping them off?
June Zoul (25:45):
I think we it was a mixed, but you know they're very
capable of going to the movieson their own and uh, that kind
of a thing, I mean.
Or even if we would go out todinner, they would sit at their
own table, you know.
So we've always tried to givethem independence.
And I think, an important thing, this is not something that the
(26:09):
parents drove, kristen andJames drove this.
I mean Kristen, when ouryoungest went away to college,
she called Bob and I and shegoes, I need you to sit down.
And she said Kaylee's gone, nowit's my turn.
I want to move out and you guysneed to accept this as part of
(26:31):
life.
I mean that's literally that.
And I'm thinking I could neversleep again.
I just can't even imagine thisconcept.
And the same with James.
You know the cute story ofJames's were at this big meeting
(26:52):
trying to figure out how wecould make this even work,
figure out how we could makethis even work, and James just
sending a text to the directorof the support agency that we
use, saying, okay, all thistalking, but when am I getting
my apartment?
Melody Rupple (27:13):
That was another one of these meetings with a
huge conference table and BethGallagher, who heads up
LifeWorks, was at one end andJames is at the other, and then
in between you had RegionalCenter and all these other
people and again about 20 peopleall around this table.
And what it really came down towas that Beth and LifeWorks was
just getting to know Kristenand James and they said you know
(27:38):
we need funding, but we don'tknow how much we need yet until
we start supporting them andfind out what their needs are.
Regional Center was understrict budgeting at the time and
said you need to lay out dailyexactly what services are going
to be for them every day so wecan calculate what we can give
you to accomplish that.
And they were just buttingheads on that.
(27:59):
You know, you got to tell usright now what you need and
we'll tell you if we can give itto you.
We got to determine what theyneed and then we can decide.
So, anyway, it just went on andon and on and then finally I see
Beth just couldn't stop herselffrom laughing at the one end of
the table and she looked at thewhole.
Meeting stopped.
So she looks down at James, shegoes.
Okay, I just got this text fromJames and I'll never forget
(28:22):
what it said.
It said blah, blah, blah, whendo we get our apartment?
Yeah, yeah, and everybodylaughed.
They broke the ice and then wecame up with a compromise.
June Zoul (28:34):
You know.
So I mean, it's just importantthat people know it.
It wasn't us getting togetherand saying, oh, let's move our
kids out.
It was our kids telling us theywanted to happen, and to me it
seemed like this overwhelmingprocess and how it would ever
(28:54):
work and how I would ever feelcomfortable enough and and we're
, we're, we're, we're gettingthere.
Greta Harrison (29:02):
But I'm still stuck in the beginning stages
here.
I love that you said it's it'sdriven by James and Kristen.
That's absolutely true.
But all I'm saying is, if thefamilies aren't on the same page
, it is so hard for something tomove forward.
They have to be, they have tohave the same.
For instance, you both rose,you both raised independent
(29:28):
adults.
That that's not always the case.
You could have James be withsomebody who's not independent,
and then it's so anyways.
Yeah, so you.
So you, you let, you, let.
You went on, they went on thedates and probably pretty early
on, they were fairly independentis what I as, what I want to be
(29:49):
clear, and part of that is many.
I am never going to forget it's.
It might be almost eight, nine,10 years ago I was at a local,
the Arc of Virginia, so it's forour state.
I was at the conference and Iwas in the back of a session
that was just for self-advocates.
So I stood in the back justlike a fly on the wall and these
(30:11):
were all adults and to a T,they all said parents, stop
coming on the dates with us,stop, you know, chaperoning us
for 10, 15,.
You know, let us have arelationship.
That was their number onemessage and it's just stuck in
my head.
(30:32):
And I know so many people whoare still chaperoning their kids
for the entire thing years andyears and years later.
So that's why I want to beclear from the beginning you
were like they were being fairlyindependent, they're going on
their dates.
You might help with thetransportation.
Then we get to the point wherethis, this very I can't wait to
(30:55):
meet Kristen, because I lovethis, this young woman who says
who fires her aid, tells theclass, tells the class that she
could be the assistant there.
I mean, I, I, I can't, justcan't wait to meet your daughter
.
Okay, so I can envision hersaying you know, let's have a
sit down, it's my turn andthat's what it was.
(31:16):
So she gave a wake up call toyou.
Is what you're saying?
June Zoul (31:19):
It was, and it really took three years from that
point to the point that shemoved out.
Greta Harrison (31:27):
And that three years was OK.
Did you have like a circle?
Did you have a formal circle ofsupport around her?
I know you have a large familyso that might not have been
necessary because you might'vehad an informal circle.
June Zoul (31:40):
Already At that point we were managing everything on
our own.
I mean, I had arranged to gether to college and then she
would ride the train with Jamesto June's.
And then Bob retired fairlyearly and really for me because
(32:01):
that's the other thing as aparent you have to acknowledge,
you get burnt out.
You know the constant work ofmaking all these things happen I
was to the point of, okay, shecould move out, but I can't
imagine what this would take,right.
And so because Bob retired, hetook over a lot of that and it
(32:25):
was really him in June that madeall this happen.
And I'm very thankful for that,because if it was all on me, I
don't know.
I was like all that paperwork,everything it's going to take to
make this happen.
And then the four of us once wedecided this might be okay,
(32:49):
which is a hard thing, I meanit's a big step.
As the daughter of the you know, the female, or the parents of
the female, you know, we werelike, you know there's just so
much involved in that.
And so once we decided that wewere going to let them try, that
, I mean the four of us had justalways been on the same page,
(33:09):
always worked together so well,enjoy each other's company.
We're so fortunate in that area, I mean, I think that's
probably crucial to make ithappen.
So then we, you know, westarted looking at different
agencies and again, our friendLisa Hotalan had already done
this.
So we, you know, went withLifeWorks, you know, we
(33:32):
interviewed it.
Well, kristen James interviewedAIDS, and eventually all the
pieces fell into place.
Greta Harrison (33:41):
Thank you for listening to episode 21 of Born
Fabulous podcast, third season.
I hope you enjoyed it and wantto hear more Short video clips
from most episodes are availableon our YouTube channel and on
bornfabulouspodcastcom.
You can also hear all releasedepisodes of Born Fabulous
Podcast on YouTube.
Now, in episode 22, you willhear the Zolls and the Ruples
(34:05):
discuss dating the journey ofmoving out, living independently
with support, navigating thepandemic, and more Honest and
funny stories are woven in thisdiscussion.
Please follow and like us onFacebook, instagram, twitter and
Threads.
If you enjoyed this episode.
I'd be honored if you wouldleave a review wherever you
heard this podcast.
(34:26):
Now.
Please enjoy this clip.
Of Love is a Potion.
The lyrics are by MelissaRiggio, who was the focus of
Season 1, episodes 1 through 4.
The music and voice are byRachel Fuller.
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