May 7, 2025 • 21 mins
Once the most derided type of film adaptation, video game movies have been seeing a renaissance as of late. So what better time to borrow the conventions of a once-derided medium to tell a story all your own? In this Mini-BOP, Mike and Jamie gush about the new film by genre filmmaker Jason Trost, The Waves of Madness, the world’s first side-scrolling motion picture. With a premise that could have outstayed its welcome in minutes, Waves draws you in with its loving pastiche of PS1-era survival horror, and keeps you with a sincere Lovecraftian mystery at sea, with the best monster design we’ve seen all year. You’ll never look at load screen monologues the same way again!
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:29):
Welcome to Box Office Pulp,your one stop podcast for movies,
madness and moxie. I'm yourgreat old host, Mike, joined by my
indescribable co host, Jamie.
I think it's within our areasonable range of expectation to
just assume that one of us outof the two will be lost at sea.
Honestly, it's kind of mydream to be lost at sea. And I'm
(00:50):
not even really that jokingwhen I say that I'm very comforted
by things involving peoplelost at sea.
Well, it has as long as Iknown you been your dream to leave
behind a terrifying mystery.
Actually, you know what wouldbe fun for me, for me to do to take
one of those like around theworld yachting races and disappear
(01:11):
in the course of that. I thinkthat would be, that would be, that
would be good.
Long as they never find you.The race is always in session. That's
the magic of it.
There's that episode ofSurvivor man where he's lost at sea.
And I watch that episodesometimes for comfort because it
seems really fun to me. Youknow, the same way people watch roller
coaster videos and like, oh,that's great. I would love to. I'd
(01:32):
love to be doing that rightnow. That's how I feel about him
dying in the ocean slowly.
I'm just imagining you in themovie theater watching all is Lost
while laughing and smoking acigar like, Max, Katie, this guy's
got the life.
The lonely death of RobertRedford at sea. But speaking of being
lost at sea, today is a minibop that will be kept fairly spoiler
(01:55):
free. We'll do our best forJason Trott's Waves of Madness, which
is hitting blu Ray on June 4thin both a regular edition and collector's
edition from UmbrellaEntertainment. But you can currently
run it on Google Play andApple. This was an indiegogo project
and you may recognize Trost'sname from the fp, All Superheroes
Must Die and the like. So withthe filmography like that, you know
(02:19):
there's going to be somethingspecial and different with the film
that we're talking abouttoday. And that is the fact it's
the world's first sidescrolling film. And I like how it's
worded that way, as if that'sjust a thing that's going to happen
from now on, as it shouldHonestly. But it sounds weird first
time you hear it. But if youwant to stop and watch the trailer,
(02:39):
if you're not aware of thisfilm previously, watching the trailer
will begin to make things makesome vague sense. Honestly, because
I was very confused by it thefirst time I heard it. I was excited
the second I heard about itbecause I came across it a few weeks
ago and we immediately watchedit that night and yeah, wow. I was,
I was all in on this thingpretty much immediately.
(03:00):
I think about about halfwaythrough we were going this is going
to be a bop, right?
100%. So I didn't know how itwas going to work going in. We watched
the trailer and it seemed likea really bonkers, the film like Man
Borg and Biocop and stuff likethat kind of came to mind for me.
It see it seemed on the nosecampy, which we do enjoy. So that
(03:22):
wasn't a turn off or anything.And this is my first Jason Trost
movie but I do know of hiswork by reputation is very all over
the place tone wise. So I,yeah, I wasn't really sure like is
this going to be somethingthat will be enjoyable for a little
while and then kind of get oldlike a YouTube video that goes on
(03:43):
for too long and God, I, I waspleasantly surprised by how immediately
engaging this is.
Yeah, the trailer actually Iwould argue doesn't really do it
justice because it does lookvery tongue in cheek and not to say
the film isn't, but I wasn'texpecting how legit the film was
because it, it is very muchinspired by side scrolling video
games. And you can tell, youknow, a lot of, a lot of what trust
(04:06):
does is video game inspired orpart of that culture. But it's also
very old movie, you know, oldmonster movie inspired by way of
side scrolling video game.
It feels like you're watchinga dramatization of a lost Capcom
game from the PlayStation 1era that just happened to be their
(04:28):
take on an H.P. lovecraft story.
Yeah. And I think you calledit while we were watching it, which
is, you know, we wereexpecting like super video game coded
stuff and it. And it is. Butwe were expecting it in like the
classical sense like oh, it'sa classic side scrolling video game.
This felt more like prestigeindie triple a side scroller game
(04:49):
that is supposed to hearkenback to old games.
Yeah, it kind of had the vibeof something like Oxenfree, like
a point and click thing that'svery, that's very much like in, in
the style of an older game butwith A lot of modern sensibilities,
which really threw me for aloop because again, I was just kind
of expecting a parody. Butthis does take itself surprisingly
seriously and it does tell asincere story outside of, you know,
(05:14):
this framework of a video game convention.
Yeah. And for that, it'sactually a very legitimate H.P. lovecraft
story.
It deals with grief andmadness very.
Much and also like the thinline between reality and imagination
and how sometimes that linedoesn't matter. It's very interesting.
There's all. There's actuallya lot of stuff to pull from that
(05:36):
you can enjoy. Completelydetached from the, you know, classic
sort of black and whiteLovecraft stuff and divorced from
the video game stuff andpurely like as a through line, emotional
through line. Not to say likethe video game stuff is not. It's
not overbearing, but it'sthere. And a lot of it you can pick
up on, you know, like a buttonflashing so you know, to go over
(06:00):
there to click on it and kindof very subtle movement stuff like
how the characters in the film move.
In particular, Tally Wickham'sperformance as Francis is outstanding.
I've never seen likePlayStation 1 era Polygon acting
and an almost JapaneseAmerican actor directed by a Japanese
(06:25):
crew voice acting, kind ofvocals. Again, it's very endearing.
Endearing is the way to put itbecause it doesn't take. It doesn't
take you out, which is what Iwas expecting. Like. Oh, when I thought
it was going to be this tonguein cheek thing, I thought like, oh,
it's going to be like reallylike overwhelming dialogue. People
move weird. There's going tobe like a lot of video game type
crap in there to like, will befun. But that's what, that's what
(06:47):
the point of the film is. The,the way the dialogue and way it's
delivered is still very subtleexcept like one NPC character they
run into who. Who is allowedto be a little bit more exaggerated
and like how they talk movepurely because they're only on screen
for a very brief time. Whilethe main characters are very Capcom
dialogue coded in a. In a verylike nicely subtle way while still
(07:11):
having like an air of austereand like. It's not purely just stupid.
Yeah. It feel. It feelssincere. Not like a parody. Like.
No, no. This would actually bewhat would be in this game that was
probably made by talented people.
Yeah.
And then maybe like somethinggot lost in translation that made
it a little clunkier than it.Than it was intended. Particularly.
(07:31):
I, I loved the incidental. Wehave to Fill dead air conversations
between the two characters asthey pass between levels. Which by
the way, just think little,little touches like music fading
out just a little bit too fastas if there's a loading screen being
passed by. Things like that.Yeah. Which are. Are subtle. And
(07:53):
if you didn't catch those asvideo game references wouldn't take
you out of the movienecessarily. You could. You could
show this to somebody who isvery young and doesn't have any familiarity
with that level of that era ofgaming and they would just read this
as just a weird art movie.
Yeah. You don't have to. Youdon't. You can completely ignore
the video game coding of it.Because even I like, I'm not going
(08:15):
to go into spoilers,obviously, because the film's not
even officially out yet as faras being on physical. But there is
a moment in the film where theanimation cycle of an enemy is very
important. If you know videogame storytelling and, and game mechanics,
you recognize that's what'shappening is they are utilizing the
animation cycle of an enemybecause that's what the level is
(08:38):
designed to do is you have togo around the enemy in this particular
way. You can. You can totallywatch it completely ignoring that
fact. Like it doesn'tnecessarily affect it, it adds to
it. But it's me. But it'sbecause the way the storytelling
is weaved into it, it feelsvery natural and it still comes back
to like a character place withit and how the plan is. Is divulged
(08:59):
and put together. So it workson both those angles. Like you can
watch it as a video game fan.You get a little bit tickled the
fact that, oh my God, there'sa plot point in this movie that involves
the animation cycle of. Of anenemy character. Or you can just
watch it as. It's reallyinteresting how this movie's being
shot where you can like watchthese characters like move in the
(09:20):
background while this action'shappening in the foreground. Just
because it's being filmed likeit's a side scroller.
Oh God. And speaking of thingsthey encounter in this movie, I know
you can definitely see alittle bit of them in the trailer.
The monster design in thismovie is really cool and is a very
original take on the at thispoint quite cliche tentacle man trope
(09:45):
that we see in anything thatcomes anywhere near Lovecraft. It
reminded me a lot of the sidescroller inside side, that very uncanny,
squirmy, reachy, indefinablemast. A kind of monster design that's
so.
Unsettling and once againgoing back to that, there is also
(10:05):
an element of the enemy of theenemies that have that really cool
design where there's kind oftwo looks for them because there
is a shield elements that youhave to knock down before you can
defeat them. And it's not evensomething the movie stops to explain.
It's like a video game. It'scompletely environmental. You, you
pick up on it. But it's justlike that subtle thing like how would
a game mechanic, like if youknow game mechanics in and out and
(10:29):
you play them a lot, you'reused to how they're integrated into
a story and if you decide topick them apart and how do I take
a game mechanic and integrateit as a part of a movie story without
it just being a mechanic? AndI think that's really interesting.
It actually shows like areally interesting way that game
mechanics has evolved in themedium to being a normal part of
(10:51):
storytelling in a, in a very.
Invisible way about hownovelistic conventions and conventions
of the stage are stillintentionally imitated in movies
to this day. I mean this couldbe very commonplace 20 years from
now. Just, oh, it's just aperfectly normal wrinkle. This thing
has video game storytellingconventions. I just one more layer
(11:14):
on here and it's not somethingthat's seen as explicitly incongruous.
Yeah, like no, no, no. More noweirder than just having chapter
titles in a movie.
Moving, moving away just alittle bit from like the video game
mechanics. One, one aspectthat did surprise me is I mean the
film's short to be fair, youknow, full disclosure, it's like
an hour long. I think it'slike fully, maybe an hour and eight
(11:35):
minutes. I want to say longcredits, long credits, but also long
after credit scene. So thatbalances it out. But the side scrolling
filming style and it's donecompletely on green screen. I'm looking
forward to getting the Blu rayjust to see hopefully some behind
the scenes stuff because I'dlove, I would love if they released
like the full green screen cutof just I assume them walking on
(11:57):
treadmills or something. Ihave no idea how they film some of
that, but it doesn't gettiresome visually. Despite the fact
it is like most side scrollingvideo games. It's like the background
changes very much. They do goto a couple different environments
in the cruise ship and they'reall horror video game coded in some
way like the kind ofenvironments you'd expect in those
(12:17):
areas. But it, it's bothbecause of the constant dialog because
of the air filling. Which isvery helpful in that case because
even before there's twocharacters we have the video game
character recording logs andgathering information and also getting
like environmentalstorytelling like things written
in blood on the walls like youwould get.
(12:38):
And flashbacks that are framedlike loading screens.
Yes. That are reallyintegrated. Well, like yeah. The
movie feels like it's one shoteven with flashbacks integrated and
even with technically aprologue without the main character
that takes place before themain character gets there. That there
is a cut back to the maincharacter. But for some reason it
(13:00):
still feels like it's all oneshot. Like I like somehow it goes
from like the titles tofeeling like the camera is still
moving and catching up withwhere the main character is. I, I,
I'm not really sure what theydid visually to like get that feeling
across. But it's, it's a coolWarner looking movie. But that visual
of the side scrolling nevergets tiresome and your brain gets
(13:22):
used to it really quickly,which surprised me. Like it stops
being a novelty, I would sayin a like kitschy way, if that makes
sense.
Yeah, that's, that's somethingthat's been on my mind a lot lately
as we're seeing a lot more lowbudget movies. Opt to just embrace
the artifice of green screenand double down on the cartooniness
(13:46):
to kind of work with aminuscule budget in a stylized a
way possible. Which I don'tthink you could have done a couple
of years ago when people werefar more hypercritical of that sort
of thing. But I think at thispoint we're used to even blockbuster
movies occasionally justlooking fake as shit.
Yeah.
Which people bitch about. Butit also has the effect of kind of
(14:09):
deadening that. So you see amovie that is shot on a green screen
and isn't trying to hide thatit's that shot on a green screen.
It's kind of meeting theaudience halfway.
Yeah.
It makes it in a weird wayalmost more theatrical. Like in the
stage sense.
Yeah. Artifice is, is part ofthe game when you're like taking
in that particular story.Though I did see one comment when
(14:31):
I first saw Umbrella postabout it the day I discovered the
movie. One comment was liketrying to be like Sin City. I was
like, that was like 20 yearsago. And also because it's in black
and white is very odd to me.But I mean it's the same principle
ultimately. It's like no usingthe artifice of green screen, which
can actually be veryinteresting if it's utilized correctly
(14:54):
to build an unreality of aworld that you can utilize the camera
in differently. And I thinkthat's what Wave of Madness does
is it's very, very engrossing.And I would kind of love to watch
the movie and like with a VRhelmet on. Like that's what I kept
thinking of. Like that wouldlook so cool in a. With a VR helmet
(15:16):
on. And I have seen and therehas been some experimentation also
like with movies that are shotin VR so you can, you know, move
your head around and lookaround the scene while it's going
on. That would actually bereally cool for something like that.
Yeah, Love to see that.
So I do know Trous is rightnow. I don't know if the Indiegogo's
closed or if it's still going.He's working on a horror movie right
(15:40):
now. I forget the name of itoff the top of my head, but it's
pretty much like a. The ideaof it is essentially it's a telltale
video game, but it's a movieso you can. So it has dialog trees,
it has different scenes anddifferent endings. You can get. So
essentially it's. You areplaying, you are playing you. You
are watching a survival horrormovie and participating in it by
(16:04):
choosing the paths thecharacter goes on throughout the
movie.
Yeah. Afar.
Yes, that's it.
Yeah. It's now available forpre order, which sounds awesome.
I really like that as an eye,as an idea.
Yeah. And I like howexperimental he's getting now. I
don't think we see a lot of.There's a lot of like fan. I mean
obviously he's not a. He's notmaking fan films or anything like
(16:26):
that. But you see a lot ofthings in the fan film environments
that are done to adapt videogames. Much more so because video
games aren't adapted anywhereelse except in a couple of places
right now that actually getlike experimental with how things
are put together and howintegrating the video game into it.
And I like how he is goinglike, what if you started to blend
(16:48):
the two storytelling mediums?Because like you said, with Waves
of Madness being very muchfeeling like a modern side scroller
that you'd play like a modernhorror side scroller pick up on Steam.
It's utilizing the sidescrolling aspect in the same way
those video games are, whichis. It's not just side scrolling
because, well, it's easy tomake it. It's easier to make an indie
(17:10):
video game that's a sidescroller. But also the way those
games integrate side scrollinginto part of the storytelling, of
how everything is. Is unf.Like, oh, what if we just took that
and also then applied it to amovie? Like, does that have to be
stuck purely in a game thatyou are controlling? Or are you able
to be a passive viewer of thesame storytelling experience? And
(17:32):
I think the fact that there issuch a audience for watching people
play video games, evensometimes without commentary, and
just watching the gamespassively get played, especially
side scrollers, I mean, isn'tthat the same thing at that point?
Like you're passively watchinga story being untold, just in a.
Just in a different purview.
It's an interesting fullcircle for him since he began his
(17:56):
career with the fp, which isnarrative izing the experience of
playing Dance Dance Revolution.
And I think by the same token,you could say the need for Speed
movie is. Don't stare at melike that. Look, look. That technically,
that is a video game movie.
The important thing is Jessekept driving.
(18:18):
So anyway, you can check outWaves of Madness on June 4th on Blu
Ray, but it's like I said,available on Google Play and Apple
right now. I don't know whenit's hitting other platforms, but
I know the standard edition issold out on umbrella.com, but you
can still pick it up on Amazonand a few other places it's being
(18:39):
sold at. But Umbrella stillhas the collector's edition up, which
I'm very excited to get in.And I'm actually really hoping he's
done sequels to stuff before,so I'm hoping he does actually do
a sequel to this thing. I'mhoping people also discover it, especially
horror fans, because they'deat this shit up and I would like
to see it end up on Shutter or something.
(18:59):
Oh, yeah, it would be very JoeBob Knight.
Yes, him describing thehistory of side scrolling video games
would be so delightful.
Then there came SplatterHouse, which had all of them.
Oh, God. Just I. Okay, doesJoboff have a cameo? Because we need
him to just say Metroidvania.Like, I want to make that my ringtone
every time someone texts me.It's Metroidvania. Make me so happy.
(19:23):
Anyway, so this has been amini bop for Waves of Madness. If
you like more of the show, youcan find it, of course, at box officepulp.com
and all of your fine favoritepodcasting platforms. I think. I
think we're still on those. Idon't think we've been taking off
yet. Spotify is still a thing, right?
For now.
For now. Hey, Spotify Fix yourfucking analytics. I can't see anything.
(19:46):
This is why Neil Young hate you.
Welcome to Box Office Pulp,your one stop podcast for movies,
madness and moxie. I'm yourgreat old host, Mike, joined by my
indescribable co host, Jamie.
I think it's within our areasonable range of expectation to
just assume that one of us outof the two will be lost at sea.
Honestly, it's kind of mydream to be lost at sea. And I'm
(00:50):
not even really that jokingwhen I say that I'm very comforted
by things involving peoplelost at sea.
Well, it has as long as Iknown you been your dream to leave
behind a terrifying mystery.
Actually, you know what wouldbe fun for me, for me to do to take
one of those like around theworld yachting races and disappear
(01:11):
in the course of that. I thinkthat would be, that would be, that
would be good.
Long as they never find you.The race is always in session. That's
the magic of it.
There's that episode ofSurvivor man where he's lost at sea.
And I watch that episodesometimes for comfort because it
seems really fun to me. Youknow, the same way people watch roller
coaster videos and like, oh,that's great. I would love to. I'd
(01:32):
love to be doing that rightnow. That's how I feel about him
dying in the ocean slowly.
I'm just imagining you in themovie theater watching all is Lost
while laughing and smoking acigar like, Max, Katie, this guy's
got the life.
The lonely death of RobertRedford at sea. But speaking of being
lost at sea, today is a minibop that will be kept fairly spoiler
(01:55):
free. We'll do our best forJason Trott's Waves of Madness, which
is hitting blu Ray on June 4thin both a regular edition and collector's
edition from UmbrellaEntertainment. But you can currently
run it on Google Play andApple. This was an indiegogo project
and you may recognize Trost'sname from the fp, All Superheroes
Must Die and the like. So withthe filmography like that, you know
(02:19):
there's going to be somethingspecial and different with the film
that we're talking abouttoday. And that is the fact it's
the world's first sidescrolling film. And I like how it's
worded that way, as if that'sjust a thing that's going to happen
from now on, as it shouldHonestly. But it sounds weird first
time you hear it. But if youwant to stop and watch the trailer,
(02:39):
if you're not aware of thisfilm previously, watching the trailer
will begin to make things makesome vague sense. Honestly, because
I was very confused by it thefirst time I heard it. I was excited
the second I heard about itbecause I came across it a few weeks
ago and we immediately watchedit that night and yeah, wow. I was,
I was all in on this thingpretty much immediately.
(03:00):
I think about about halfwaythrough we were going this is going
to be a bop, right?
100%. So I didn't know how itwas going to work going in. We watched
the trailer and it seemed likea really bonkers, the film like Man
Borg and Biocop and stuff likethat kind of came to mind for me.
It see it seemed on the nosecampy, which we do enjoy. So that
(03:22):
wasn't a turn off or anything.And this is my first Jason Trost
movie but I do know of hiswork by reputation is very all over
the place tone wise. So I,yeah, I wasn't really sure like is
this going to be somethingthat will be enjoyable for a little
while and then kind of get oldlike a YouTube video that goes on
(03:43):
for too long and God, I, I waspleasantly surprised by how immediately
engaging this is.
Yeah, the trailer actually Iwould argue doesn't really do it
justice because it does lookvery tongue in cheek and not to say
the film isn't, but I wasn'texpecting how legit the film was
because it, it is very muchinspired by side scrolling video
games. And you can tell, youknow, a lot of, a lot of what trust
(04:06):
does is video game inspired orpart of that culture. But it's also
very old movie, you know, oldmonster movie inspired by way of
side scrolling video game.
It feels like you're watchinga dramatization of a lost Capcom
game from the PlayStation 1era that just happened to be their
(04:28):
take on an H.P. lovecraft story.
Yeah. And I think you calledit while we were watching it, which
is, you know, we wereexpecting like super video game coded
stuff and it. And it is. Butwe were expecting it in like the
classical sense like oh, it'sa classic side scrolling video game.
This felt more like prestigeindie triple a side scroller game
(04:49):
that is supposed to hearkenback to old games.
Yeah, it kind of had the vibeof something like Oxenfree, like
a point and click thing that'svery, that's very much like in, in
the style of an older game butwith A lot of modern sensibilities,
which really threw me for aloop because again, I was just kind
of expecting a parody. Butthis does take itself surprisingly
seriously and it does tell asincere story outside of, you know,
(05:14):
this framework of a video game convention.
Yeah. And for that, it'sactually a very legitimate H.P. lovecraft
story.
It deals with grief andmadness very.
Much and also like the thinline between reality and imagination
and how sometimes that linedoesn't matter. It's very interesting.
There's all. There's actuallya lot of stuff to pull from that
(05:36):
you can enjoy. Completelydetached from the, you know, classic
sort of black and whiteLovecraft stuff and divorced from
the video game stuff andpurely like as a through line, emotional
through line. Not to say likethe video game stuff is not. It's
not overbearing, but it'sthere. And a lot of it you can pick
up on, you know, like a buttonflashing so you know, to go over
(06:00):
there to click on it and kindof very subtle movement stuff like
how the characters in the film move.
In particular, Tally Wickham'sperformance as Francis is outstanding.
I've never seen likePlayStation 1 era Polygon acting
and an almost JapaneseAmerican actor directed by a Japanese
(06:25):
crew voice acting, kind ofvocals. Again, it's very endearing.
Endearing is the way to put itbecause it doesn't take. It doesn't
take you out, which is what Iwas expecting. Like. Oh, when I thought
it was going to be this tonguein cheek thing, I thought like, oh,
it's going to be like reallylike overwhelming dialogue. People
move weird. There's going tobe like a lot of video game type
crap in there to like, will befun. But that's what, that's what
(06:47):
the point of the film is. The,the way the dialogue and way it's
delivered is still very subtleexcept like one NPC character they
run into who. Who is allowedto be a little bit more exaggerated
and like how they talk movepurely because they're only on screen
for a very brief time. Whilethe main characters are very Capcom
dialogue coded in a. In a verylike nicely subtle way while still
(07:11):
having like an air of austereand like. It's not purely just stupid.
Yeah. It feel. It feelssincere. Not like a parody. Like.
No, no. This would actually bewhat would be in this game that was
probably made by talented people.
Yeah.
And then maybe like somethinggot lost in translation that made
it a little clunkier than it.Than it was intended. Particularly.
(07:31):
I, I loved the incidental. Wehave to Fill dead air conversations
between the two characters asthey pass between levels. Which by
the way, just think little,little touches like music fading
out just a little bit too fastas if there's a loading screen being
passed by. Things like that.Yeah. Which are. Are subtle. And
(07:53):
if you didn't catch those asvideo game references wouldn't take
you out of the movienecessarily. You could. You could
show this to somebody who isvery young and doesn't have any familiarity
with that level of that era ofgaming and they would just read this
as just a weird art movie.
Yeah. You don't have to. Youdon't. You can completely ignore
the video game coding of it.Because even I like, I'm not going
(08:15):
to go into spoilers,obviously, because the film's not
even officially out yet as faras being on physical. But there is
a moment in the film where theanimation cycle of an enemy is very
important. If you know videogame storytelling and, and game mechanics,
you recognize that's what'shappening is they are utilizing the
animation cycle of an enemybecause that's what the level is
(08:38):
designed to do is you have togo around the enemy in this particular
way. You can. You can totallywatch it completely ignoring that
fact. Like it doesn'tnecessarily affect it, it adds to
it. But it's me. But it'sbecause the way the storytelling
is weaved into it, it feelsvery natural and it still comes back
to like a character place withit and how the plan is. Is divulged
(08:59):
and put together. So it workson both those angles. Like you can
watch it as a video game fan.You get a little bit tickled the
fact that, oh my God, there'sa plot point in this movie that involves
the animation cycle of. Of anenemy character. Or you can just
watch it as. It's reallyinteresting how this movie's being
shot where you can like watchthese characters like move in the
(09:20):
background while this action'shappening in the foreground. Just
because it's being filmed likeit's a side scroller.
Oh God. And speaking of thingsthey encounter in this movie, I know
you can definitely see alittle bit of them in the trailer.
The monster design in thismovie is really cool and is a very
original take on the at thispoint quite cliche tentacle man trope
(09:45):
that we see in anything thatcomes anywhere near Lovecraft. It
reminded me a lot of the sidescroller inside side, that very uncanny,
squirmy, reachy, indefinablemast. A kind of monster design that's
so.
Unsettling and once againgoing back to that, there is also
(10:05):
an element of the enemy of theenemies that have that really cool
design where there's kind oftwo looks for them because there
is a shield elements that youhave to knock down before you can
defeat them. And it's not evensomething the movie stops to explain.
It's like a video game. It'scompletely environmental. You, you
pick up on it. But it's justlike that subtle thing like how would
a game mechanic, like if youknow game mechanics in and out and
(10:29):
you play them a lot, you'reused to how they're integrated into
a story and if you decide topick them apart and how do I take
a game mechanic and integrateit as a part of a movie story without
it just being a mechanic? AndI think that's really interesting.
It actually shows like areally interesting way that game
mechanics has evolved in themedium to being a normal part of
(10:51):
storytelling in a, in a very.
Invisible way about hownovelistic conventions and conventions
of the stage are stillintentionally imitated in movies
to this day. I mean this couldbe very commonplace 20 years from
now. Just, oh, it's just aperfectly normal wrinkle. This thing
has video game storytellingconventions. I just one more layer
(11:14):
on here and it's not somethingthat's seen as explicitly incongruous.
Yeah, like no, no, no. More noweirder than just having chapter
titles in a movie.
Moving, moving away just alittle bit from like the video game
mechanics. One, one aspectthat did surprise me is I mean the
film's short to be fair, youknow, full disclosure, it's like
an hour long. I think it'slike fully, maybe an hour and eight
(11:35):
minutes. I want to say longcredits, long credits, but also long
after credit scene. So thatbalances it out. But the side scrolling
filming style and it's donecompletely on green screen. I'm looking
forward to getting the Blu rayjust to see hopefully some behind
the scenes stuff because I'dlove, I would love if they released
like the full green screen cutof just I assume them walking on
(11:57):
treadmills or something. Ihave no idea how they film some of
that, but it doesn't gettiresome visually. Despite the fact
it is like most side scrollingvideo games. It's like the background
changes very much. They do goto a couple different environments
in the cruise ship and they'reall horror video game coded in some
way like the kind ofenvironments you'd expect in those
(12:17):
areas. But it, it's bothbecause of the constant dialog because
of the air filling. Which isvery helpful in that case because
even before there's twocharacters we have the video game
character recording logs andgathering information and also getting
like environmentalstorytelling like things written
in blood on the walls like youwould get.
(12:38):
And flashbacks that are framedlike loading screens.
Yes. That are reallyintegrated. Well, like yeah. The
movie feels like it's one shoteven with flashbacks integrated and
even with technically aprologue without the main character
that takes place before themain character gets there. That there
is a cut back to the maincharacter. But for some reason it
(13:00):
still feels like it's all oneshot. Like I like somehow it goes
from like the titles tofeeling like the camera is still
moving and catching up withwhere the main character is. I, I,
I'm not really sure what theydid visually to like get that feeling
across. But it's, it's a coolWarner looking movie. But that visual
of the side scrolling nevergets tiresome and your brain gets
(13:22):
used to it really quickly,which surprised me. Like it stops
being a novelty, I would sayin a like kitschy way, if that makes
sense.
Yeah, that's, that's somethingthat's been on my mind a lot lately
as we're seeing a lot more lowbudget movies. Opt to just embrace
the artifice of green screenand double down on the cartooniness
(13:46):
to kind of work with aminuscule budget in a stylized a
way possible. Which I don'tthink you could have done a couple
of years ago when people werefar more hypercritical of that sort
of thing. But I think at thispoint we're used to even blockbuster
movies occasionally justlooking fake as shit.
Yeah.
Which people bitch about. Butit also has the effect of kind of
(14:09):
deadening that. So you see amovie that is shot on a green screen
and isn't trying to hide thatit's that shot on a green screen.
It's kind of meeting theaudience halfway.
Yeah.
It makes it in a weird wayalmost more theatrical. Like in the
stage sense.
Yeah. Artifice is, is part ofthe game when you're like taking
in that particular story.Though I did see one comment when
(14:31):
I first saw Umbrella postabout it the day I discovered the
movie. One comment was liketrying to be like Sin City. I was
like, that was like 20 yearsago. And also because it's in black
and white is very odd to me.But I mean it's the same principle
ultimately. It's like no usingthe artifice of green screen, which
can actually be veryinteresting if it's utilized correctly
(14:54):
to build an unreality of aworld that you can utilize the camera
in differently. And I thinkthat's what Wave of Madness does
is it's very, very engrossing.And I would kind of love to watch
the movie and like with a VRhelmet on. Like that's what I kept
thinking of. Like that wouldlook so cool in a. With a VR helmet
(15:16):
on. And I have seen and therehas been some experimentation also
like with movies that are shotin VR so you can, you know, move
your head around and lookaround the scene while it's going
on. That would actually bereally cool for something like that.
Yeah, Love to see that.
So I do know Trous is rightnow. I don't know if the Indiegogo's
closed or if it's still going.He's working on a horror movie right
(15:40):
now. I forget the name of itoff the top of my head, but it's
pretty much like a. The ideaof it is essentially it's a telltale
video game, but it's a movieso you can. So it has dialog trees,
it has different scenes anddifferent endings. You can get. So
essentially it's. You areplaying, you are playing you. You
are watching a survival horrormovie and participating in it by
(16:04):
choosing the paths thecharacter goes on throughout the
movie.
Yeah. Afar.
Yes, that's it.
Yeah. It's now available forpre order, which sounds awesome.
I really like that as an eye,as an idea.
Yeah. And I like howexperimental he's getting now. I
don't think we see a lot of.There's a lot of like fan. I mean
obviously he's not a. He's notmaking fan films or anything like
(16:26):
that. But you see a lot ofthings in the fan film environments
that are done to adapt videogames. Much more so because video
games aren't adapted anywhereelse except in a couple of places
right now that actually getlike experimental with how things
are put together and howintegrating the video game into it.
And I like how he is goinglike, what if you started to blend
(16:48):
the two storytelling mediums?Because like you said, with Waves
of Madness being very muchfeeling like a modern side scroller
that you'd play like a modernhorror side scroller pick up on Steam.
It's utilizing the sidescrolling aspect in the same way
those video games are, whichis. It's not just side scrolling
because, well, it's easy tomake it. It's easier to make an indie
(17:10):
video game that's a sidescroller. But also the way those
games integrate side scrollinginto part of the storytelling, of
how everything is. Is unf.Like, oh, what if we just took that
and also then applied it to amovie? Like, does that have to be
stuck purely in a game thatyou are controlling? Or are you able
to be a passive viewer of thesame storytelling experience? And
(17:32):
I think the fact that there issuch a audience for watching people
play video games, evensometimes without commentary, and
just watching the gamespassively get played, especially
side scrollers, I mean, isn'tthat the same thing at that point?
Like you're passively watchinga story being untold, just in a.
Just in a different purview.
It's an interesting fullcircle for him since he began his
(17:56):
career with the fp, which isnarrative izing the experience of
playing Dance Dance Revolution.
And I think by the same token,you could say the need for Speed
movie is. Don't stare at melike that. Look, look. That technically,
that is a video game movie.
The important thing is Jessekept driving.
(18:18):
So anyway, you can check outWaves of Madness on June 4th on Blu
Ray, but it's like I said,available on Google Play and Apple
right now. I don't know whenit's hitting other platforms, but
I know the standard edition issold out on umbrella.com, but you
can still pick it up on Amazonand a few other places it's being
(18:39):
sold at. But Umbrella stillhas the collector's edition up, which
I'm very excited to get in.And I'm actually really hoping he's
done sequels to stuff before,so I'm hoping he does actually do
a sequel to this thing. I'mhoping people also discover it, especially
horror fans, because they'deat this shit up and I would like
to see it end up on Shutter or something.
(18:59):
Oh, yeah, it would be very JoeBob Knight.
Yes, him describing thehistory of side scrolling video games
would be so delightful.
Then there came SplatterHouse, which had all of them.
Oh, God. Just I. Okay, doesJoboff have a cameo? Because we need
him to just say Metroidvania.Like, I want to make that my ringtone
every time someone texts me.It's Metroidvania. Make me so happy.
(19:23):
Anyway, so this has been amini bop for Waves of Madness. If
you like more of the show, youcan find it, of course, at box officepulp.com
and all of your fine favoritepodcasting platforms. I think. I
think we're still on those. Idon't think we've been taking off
yet. Spotify is still a thing, right?
For now.
For now. Hey, Spotify Fix yourfucking analytics. I can't see anything.
(19:46):
This is why Neil Young hate you.
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