Welcome back to another episode of Building Billions! Today, I have a very special guest who I've known for over 15 years. We met when he was running a small business in a small town, just like every other entrepreneur with a big dream.
Today, he's the founder and CEO of Zoom Info, a publicly traded company helping businesses identify their next best customer through data.
Let's dive into Henry Schuck's journey from a small business owner to leading a $7 billion company. As always, make sure to leave a review and share this episode with your friends!
Support the show: http://cardoneventures.com
See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
S1 (00:09):
Hey, it's Brandon Dawson. Welcome back to another episode of
Building Billions with Brandon Dawson. I have a very special
guest today. I've known this guy now for, I don't know,
probably more than 15. Yeah, 15 years, 14 years. And
I knew him when he had a little tiny business. Uh,
just like every other entrepreneur with a big dream starting
(00:29):
out in a small town. And, uh, Henry, introduce yourself.
Tell everybody what company you're with. And, uh, and then
we're going to kick this thing off. Yeah. Great.
S2 (00:39):
I'm excited to be here with you, Brandon. Uh, feels
like 14 years in the making. My name is Henry Schuck.
I'm the founder and CEO of Zoom Info. Zoom info
is a publicly traded company that helps businesses identify their
next best customer by giving them data on companies, the
individuals at those companies who make decisions, and then how
to connect with them, email, phone number, contact information. And
(01:02):
then what we layer on top of that is data
that tells you when a company is in market for
your products and services. So when are they doing research
on the types of products and services you sell? When
are they going to make a purchasing decision on the
types of products or services you sell? And then who
are the people that are making those decisions?
S1 (01:18):
Crazy. Now, now, literally 14 years ago, you and I
were sitting in my office and, and in, in Vancouver, Washington. Right. And,
and we were having a conversation about what your dream was,
what you're going to build, um, your vision for the organization, uh,
(01:39):
your appetite to do something huge. And the fact you
were one of the first aggregators and visionary for big data. Yeah.
And I remember sitting there listening to you thinking, hmm,
I wonder who all would use these services is. It
reminds me of how small I've been thinking my my
whole career. Right. So no matter how big at the time,
I thought I was thinking and and so back then
(02:00):
when we met, I think you were what, probably 3
to $5 million in revenue?
S2 (02:03):
Something like that. I have $5 million today.
S1 (02:06):
How big is your company today?
S2 (02:08):
1.2 billion in revenue. In revenue? Yeah.
S1 (02:13):
How much in value?
S2 (02:15):
Uh, you know, trades every day. Uh, today, around $7 billion.
S1 (02:20):
Seven. Now listen, listeners. 14 years ago, a dream during
three or 4 or 5 million of revenue. To change
access to information for people to use to build their businesses. Back.
Back then, in fact, when we first met it was
called Discover Org. I think that's.
S2 (02:41):
Right. Yep.
S1 (02:42):
And and. Here we are today with a business. $7
billion company. Like, what's it feel like? Just as saying.
$7 billion.
S2 (02:56):
Uh, well, here's what's interesting. Um. When I met you.
The reason why I met you was there was a
woman who was, like, helping community business people with, uh, like,
funding from the state or training programs for employees. And
I asked her, hey, listen, I don't know what I'm doing.
(03:19):
This is the first business really I've ever run. Um,
and it's getting bigger every day, and I don't really
know how to, like, run a meeting or manage my
leadership team or think about building a business. Do you
know anybody that I can go talk to or someone
who might mentor be a coach for me? And she
was like, actually, I know exactly the guy you should
(03:39):
go talk to. You should talk to Brandon Dawson. And
I think when I think about that and what you're
doing now and the platform that you have to do
it is just doing that on this big, big scale. But,
you know, at $5 million in revenue when we first met.
You know, I didn't really know again what I was doing.
My hope was every year I could double the size
(04:01):
of the business and I could see out a year
basically is as far as out, as far out as
I could see. I could say, listen, I know what's working. Well, now,
if I can just replicate that a little bit more
and scale it a little bit more, I can double
it every year. Um, and that's what we focused on doing. But,
you know, look, as I sit here today and you
know how this is, um, I'm proud of the company
(04:24):
that we've built. I'm not satisfied with the company that
we've built. I know it has more potential than what
we've put together today. And so, you know, when I
say 7 billion, I'm actually, like, a little bit embarrassed
by the number because I know that there's so much
more that it could be we can build a much
bigger company. Um, there's much more potential there. So there's
(04:48):
this constant push to keep going even at this stage.
S1 (04:52):
Well, man, I just I want everybody to hear this
because it's so consistent with all the entrepreneurs I've talked
to and what's in in for those that are succeeding,
those that are struggling or like, I just want it
to be good. I just want it to be comfortable.
I just wanted to and, you know, 97% of all
businesses under 100 million fail every ten years. So you
(05:13):
think about both of us. We both you know, I
exited I'm on my next one. Um, you've taken yours
from 5 million to 7 billion in value and you're
not satisfied. So. So for everyone listening to this look,
the show is building billions and I feature. People who
have built companies of all sizes. Um, but I talk
(05:36):
about how to build $1 billion company, which is what
I've been doing the last four years. And I talk
about the exit I have at 77 times EBITDA, but
my God, I can't fathom. You built the $7 billion
valued company and you're still sitting here saying. I'm not satisfied.
(05:57):
I know it could be bigger. I know it could
be better. I want everyone to just think about that
as you're listening to this. Because what I have found
were champions with with people who are serious about building
unbelievable businesses is no matter how big we get. We're
always dissatisfied because we know we can be bigger. Yeah.
(06:18):
And then if you're listening to this, you're like, oh, man,
if I only got to 5 million or I only
got to 10 million, or I only got to 50 million,
I'd be so satisfied. The truth is, it doesn't matter
what number you hit, you're never gonna be satisfied.
S2 (06:30):
Yeah. That's right. When we started the business, I said, like,
I remember I have this notepad where I wrote, like,
optimal size of the business, and it was like eight people. Are,
you know, today we have 3500 people. And, uh, I
do think I was I just went on a vacation
(06:51):
with my family, and I was with, uh, with a
friend of mine, and he said, so how does it
work now? Like, are you, like, built the big enough
business that you can kind of work 2 or 3
hours a day and you can have like, lots of
days off. And I was like, no, it doesn't work
like that. Like I'm working hard every day. Like today
(07:11):
I'm here in Scottsdale. I got back from my vacation
at 630 last night. I took a 6 a.m. flight
to be in Scottsdale today to meet with customers and
prospects at a conference, and I fly back tonight at
1120 on a redeye to be back home at 6 a.m.
so that I can sleep a few hours and get
going again. And none of that, like it, doesn't really
faze me. I'm doing like the necessary things to build
(07:32):
a bigger business and so that we can reach the
potential that I think, um, we have at the company.
And so I don't have 2 or 3 hour days.
I have this constant push that we can be better.
And I haven't met my potential yet. Uh, and as
long as that feels that way, I'm gonna push as
hard as I can. And you.
S1 (07:51):
You love the impact of what you're doing. I do,
and you've always been. I mean, I remember when we
first met, you were sitting across from me. I still
remember that day like it was yesterday, too. I just
wish I would have wrote you a check for half
of your company. That's what I wish I would have
been like. Hey, what's it going to cost to buy
half this company? You know, it's it's it's it's just insane.
Two guys from a little town. I mean, I used
(08:14):
to say I built one of the most successful entrepreneurial
businesses in Vancouver, Washington. And then I say next to
I remember running to a couple of your guys when
you first started at at the gas station. I'm like, oh, yeah,
Henry talks about you. And I'm like, oh yeah, how's
it going over there? And they're like, oh, good, we're growing.
Never did I think that we'd be sitting here a
(08:35):
few years later with a $7 billion company being pissed
that it's not 50 billion.
S2 (08:38):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, totally.
S1 (08:39):
Which I think is speaks to the quality of person
you are, because most entrepreneurs by now would have probably
tapped out the complexity of going from owning your own business, uh,
the whole private equity cycle. Yeah. And then IPO in
your company and then the whole public company cycle and,
and the just the friction resistance constraint that can come
(09:02):
with that if you run into friction, you know.
S2 (09:05):
The hard part, as I'm sitting here thinking about it, is, uh,
I spend a lot of time thinking about, am I
doing the right thing for this stage of the business?
Am I spending my time in the right places? Am
I recruiting the right people? There's no blueprint, and there
are only like a handful of people who've done it
(09:26):
beyond the stage that I'm at. And. What you really want,
in an ideal world, is some kind of blueprint that
tells you like, or some kind of validation. You're doing
the right thing. This is the right. You're making the
right decisions. So I spent a lot of my time
today just making sure that I'm focused on the right things,
that I'm allocating resources properly, that I'm doing the things
(09:47):
that will get us to the next stage. And there's
no very clear map of what that looks like.
S1 (09:52):
I mean, you know, the the when, you know, there's like,
I've engineered 11 breakpoints to $1 billion, but, uh. To
think about going from 1 billion to 10 billion is
a whole nother technical move. Um, talk a little bit about. Like,
what was the biggest moment for you in the growth
(10:16):
cycle where you were like, I did it versus I got,
you know, I know that I know that you're not
satisfied with no matter how much success, because you're that
kind of person. But but what was the point where
you took a deep breath at some point? And when
I actually did it, what where was that in the
business cycle IPO. Yeah.
S2 (10:36):
Like IPO day we iPod in the middle of the pandemic.
It was uh, June 4th, 2020. Um, we open the market.
Stock went up like, I don't remember, 40 or 50%. Um,
it was this great day. Also the market I was
in Vancouver, Washington when we did this. And the markets
close at 1:00, uh, Pacific. And so the market closed.
(10:58):
My day was kind of like over. And it started
at 2 a.m. and it was a beautiful day. It
was sunny, uh, and I had like, the rest of
the afternoon to, like, call some friends and hang out
with my wife and drink champagne. Um, and then have, uh,
we had 20 people over that night. That was a
great moment because it felt really validating. And I'll tell you,
(11:20):
I think the biggest reason why that moment stands out
is along the way, you bring people along this journey
and you basically tell them, like, give me your life
and I will pay you back at some point. And
they have to really believe that you will pay them
back at some point. And then a handful of them
really do give you their lives. They give you basically
(11:41):
every waking moment of their lives for a decade or more.
And so that day felt like, you know what? All
of those promises I have delivered on for my people
who gave me their lives that felt really like, felt
like a relief. And then the other piece that I
felt really strongly at that moment was maybe this is
(12:02):
actually my calling, like I was I came to the
world to do this thing. Like that's what it felt
like at that moment. So that was one the second one. Um. Was.
So I started a company called discover org. Company grew, um,
and we had an opportunity to acquire one of our
(12:22):
closest competitors, a company named Zoom Info. When you go
out and do these acquisitions, in this case specifically, we
raise debt to do the acquisition. Um, and it was
a big enough amount of debt that we actually had
to go get debt rated. So like when you hear
like a junk bond or a, you know, B minus bond,
I didn't know what that was until I was literally
in the room with Moody's pitching this acquisition. And we
(12:46):
had to raise at the time, you know, $1.2 billion
of debt to go do that acquisition. Uh. And then
you build these models and plans for what, you know,
good looks like if the acquisition works the right way,
what are sales going to look like? What are the
efficiencies you're going to get? How are you going to
be able to drive demand? How do you bring the
(13:08):
two cultures together? We make this acquisition kind of on
a Monday. And on a Thursday. I knew it was
going to be an incredibly successful integration and acquisition and
everything where I thought would be. Okay turned out great.
Things that I thought were were going to be good.
(13:29):
We're great. The teams were coming together. The customers were
like really latching on to the vision of the acquisition.
And so I remember calling my private equity investors. That
Thursday and they're like, so how's it going? I was like,
it's better than we expected. And we expected something great,
like a great outcome, but it's way better than that.
(13:51):
I remember that moment feeling like, okay, thank God, thank God. Yeah, yeah.
How big was.
S1 (13:56):
Your business when you raised a billion.
S2 (13:57):
To. It was 170 million in revenue. And then Zoom
Info was another $105 million in revenue. And so combined
the business, you know, almost 300 million when we combined it.
S1 (14:11):
Wow. And you raised a billion and you paid 1,000,000,002 for.
S2 (14:14):
So we I had to raise a billion too, because
we had done another acquisition the year before at like, uh,
300 ish million.
S1 (14:22):
So you're recapping I.
S2 (14:23):
Was recapping that and then, uh, and then about 800
million to buy zoom in.
S1 (14:29):
Man. And you think those are scary moves? You're like,
if this does not work out, I'm going to be
in trouble.
S2 (14:34):
The first acquisition I did, we acquired a company called Reinking,
and it was like a $300 million acquisition. And I
remember the day before we announced it to the team.
So we closed on a Friday. We all flew to Washington, D.C.,
took over their offices for the weekend to do all
the planning and make sure all the pieces were in place.
And I remember the Sunday before the Monday we announced
(14:55):
I was literally having a panic attack. And I was
I called one of my investors who happened to be
in Maryland. I was like, hey, will you come meet
me for lunch? We met for lunch and he's like,
how's it going? I'm like, I think this, I think
this is a panic attack. Like I'm sweating constantly. I'm
really nervous. I don't know how it's going to play out.
And I think the biggest worry was. Our investors have
(15:19):
made an investment in our company almost four years earlier,
and we could have sold the business for 5 to
6 acts, that investment. I could have paid everybody. Everybody? Well,
everybody would have been home run. I would have gotten
high fives everywhere. My staff would have been happy. The
investors would have been happy. It would have been a
great six acts return. And instead we raised debt. You
(15:43):
leveraged we leveraged it all and said, like these two
companies together can be worth more in the future than
A6X right now. Yep. And then that really meant you
had to execute that acquisition in a real, in a
almost perfect way. Or in my mind, I, I thought
of it in a had to be a perfect acquisition. Um,
(16:03):
and then it was, it was this perfect acquisition after
which gave us the opportunity to go acquire zoom info
because the financials of that first M&A transaction were so.
S1 (16:12):
Well, you also showed you knew you know, people don't
understand that that M&A side mergers and acquisitions and consolidation
side is really a testament to other people's confidence in
your ability to execute. And I always say there's three
integration points cultural, operational and financial. And it's very difficult
for business owners that haven't experienced something much bigger to
(16:35):
take their business at a certain size and then massively
grow it and integrated into somebody else's cultural operational expectations. Yeah.
And then get it all to work financially. Well financially. Yeah.
And I just, I, I'm going to just tell you
because I've known you, I've watched you, I've listened to you.
I've seen you from afar. Um, the reason I think
(16:57):
based on my experience, the reason I think your acquisitions
have gone well is because you're a good person and
you're humble, and you're you have productive paranoia, and you
care about what people think. Because the first meeting I
had with you, those are things that you said were
important to you and people who come in like a
bull in a China shop, and they're better than everybody
else and they're bigger. I'm the acquirer. I'm going to
(17:18):
shove it down your throat. They don't succeed just because
they don't have that humility and appreciation for the human
aspect of what's involved with making these things work. And
and that takes me back to like, how big is
for my listeners? How big were you as a company
and what were your revenues when you raised your first
ever money and what valuation did you do it at? Yeah.
S2 (17:40):
So we so I founded the company when I was
in law school, I was 23. I put $25,000 on
my credit card. My co-founder put $25,000 on his credit card.
That was our financing. We did it. We launched the
business in Columbus, Ohio, in 2007. So there was no
venture capital money or private equity money coming into, you know,
(18:00):
a law student and his buddies start up selling data
out of Columbus. And so we knew we had to
build a profitable business because there was going to be
no money that came in that allowed us to grow
the business other than the profits we were generating in
the company. And so, uh, year one, we did 300,000 revenue,
year two did 802.75 1533. Um.
S1 (18:25):
So I met you at the five mark.
S2 (18:27):
You met me. You know.
S1 (18:27):
What's crazy? I you just proved a point, and I
didn't prompt you to do it. I always tell business owners.
When you ask people questions and they're bullshitting you, they're
vague about how they respond. But when you did it,
you never forget your numbers. You just rattle off your
numbers by year, which I do for all my companies,
all the way back to Sonus, because some things you
(18:49):
just never forget. Yeah. And if you've actually done it,
those are so ingrained in you that, you know, when
someone's like, well, you know, I did a little bit.
I'm doing a little better, but they're they're bullshit. Yeah.
So anyhow, I meet you at the 5 million mark.
So you went 5 million then what'd you do?
S2 (19:04):
The 1515. And then I want to say. I think
we went five 1533 well, and between 15 and 33
we took in and we took outside money. So a
year between 6 and 7.
S1 (19:17):
And how much did you raise.
S2 (19:18):
We so it was a it was secondary. So first
the this was the first money in okay. So we
the aura was it was secondary in that the money
went to myself and Kirk. Oh I got it to
buy a portion of the business. Got it. And so
we were at the time call it a $27 million
(19:39):
revenue business with 45% EBITDA margins growing over 100% a
year at that point. Um. And so. And the valuation
was like 275. Wow. And they bought 50, 50, 51%
of the business.
S1 (19:58):
Man. And then? And then from there it just exploded.
S2 (20:01):
And then it just. Yeah, continued to do what it
was doing. Um, and then had an opportunity to do
an acquisition, uh, three years later. Do you wish.
S1 (20:11):
You held off taking that?
S2 (20:13):
I think about this question.
S1 (20:14):
I have a look. I have a lot of friends.
I have a friend that sold at a 75 million valuation, uh,
sold 75% of his business in 18. And they said,
keep doing what you're doing. Patted him on the back.
He took 50 million off the table. And then in 2021,
they sold it for 550 million. He was like, if
I had just bypassed that. Yeah, yeah. But then he said,
(20:36):
I don't know that if I would have had the
courage because it does give you a sense of freedom, like, okay,
I've got a backstop. I can keep going.
S2 (20:41):
Totally like I'm day. I remember that day. Like I
remember every moment of that day. I remember waking up
at 5 a.m. to get on the wire call and
getting on the phone with, you know, a dozen lawyers
from us and a dozen lawyers from them, and, you know,
their whole crew and them going around the horn being
like to. Do we have your approval for the wire, Henry?
(21:02):
Do we have your approval for the wire? Okay. The
money's being sent. And being like, okay, I in a minute,
I'm going to get. Yeah.
S1 (21:09):
Were you staring at your.
S2 (21:10):
Yeah, yeah, yeah. I remember when I came in and
being able to like see those dollars and actually, like,
there's also this weird feeling that like, all of your
wealth is flying around in wires, you know, like, in
the air somewhere, and you're waiting for it to land. Uh, but, um,
so I that moment, it really was like this. It
felt like an exit, a financial exit, and never felt
(21:34):
like an exit for me from the business. But it
felt like a some real financial freedom. Yeah. Then, um,
so I've thought about should I've waited what? Could I
have waited longer, and would that have been better for me?
And when I think about it, what it really comes
down to is. Where did my private equity investors really
(21:55):
start adding value that I couldn't have figured out on
my own? Great and great. And there's a lot of
value that they add, but a lot of it you
could probably figure out on your own. But I could
not have bought my closest competitor in 2017 without access
to the capital markets, access to a real private equity investor,
(22:18):
a real investor behind me, that wouldn't have been possible.
So that meant we did the acquisition in 2014, or
we took money in 2014 and 2017. We did the acquisition, uh,
a company called ranking, we sold at 25. We're about
80 million. When we went out and made that acquisition.
And so that delta between 25 and 80 I. I'm
(22:44):
confident I could have done without help. After that, I needed. Yeah,
I needed a proper board. I need a proper private
equity investors. I needed better mentorship, I needed governance, and
I needed access to the capital markets in a way
that I don't think I could have done on my own.
S1 (23:01):
Yeah, there is a and you can never take back.
I mean, it was such it's been such a great story.
Best and, you know, regret. Yeah totally. But but at
the end of the day it is always a question with,
thank God you didn't take money at 10 million. Yeah.
Or 15 million. Right. Because because that would have been
fairly dilutive compared to totally almost $300 million valuation for
(23:22):
the first transaction. So, you know, it's funny you sent
me when when you and I connected, you sent me, uh,
the email that I sent you, um, in 2013 or
something was and and pre.
S2 (23:37):
Investment, pre.
S1 (23:38):
Pre uh investment and.
S3 (23:43):
Let's see.
S1 (23:44):
And I was like, I remember writing that to you. Um, geez,
there's so many emails between us. Uh. Let's see. I'm
just curious if I can find this thing. Do you
have your phone on you?
S2 (24:00):
I don't.
S1 (24:01):
So.
S2 (24:01):
But it's definitely in your. I think I sent it
to you in that text. Oh, it is probably less noisy.
S1 (24:07):
Yeah, that's probably where it came from. Yeah. You sent
it to me. I just want to read this, uh,
because I go back and read it, and sometimes I'm like,
God damn, I wish I would have known, uh, you know,
because of what I'm doing today. You made a point.
This is really what my calling was. Yeah, totally. But
I had to build operating companies and get my own
skill set. And after doing the private equity route and
(24:28):
going public, it didn't work out for me so well.
And I had to, like, come to terms that I
was part of the problem there. Right. And that's why
I say, I think based on my own reflection in
the decision making I made while I was out acquiring
130 businesses and stuff. Versus. Knowing and watching you and
seeing your humility and all that stuff. Because I was
(24:51):
I was pretty much like, I'm just going to make happen, right?
But you but I wrote this to you after you
came and saw me. July 2013. Henry, equally as a
pleasure meeting you. I'm looking forward to developing a relationship
and watching your continued success. Just remember, leadership isn't something
you do. It's who you are. And it takes focus, intention,
(25:11):
and continuous development to grow. True leadership is nothing more
than influence. When you use your influence to help others see, act,
and attain in life the true impact of all your
intelligence and business wisdom will multiply beyond your wildest dreams.
Then people will not only be impressed with what you
(25:31):
can do, but more importantly, who you are. Yeah, and
because I saw you, I this was still by 2013,
I had reflected on all my previous mistakes and I
was actually in my power move in 2013. My business
was compounding every single year five, six times Inc, you know,
and entrepreneur of the year and all that bullshit and
(25:51):
and so. Meeting with you and seeing your humility was
a reflection. Going back to when I had a $5
million business with Warburg Pincus and thinking I was just
going to take the world over and charge. And then
that's ultimately why I think why they were like, hey,
things are good now we're going to sell out. Because
if I would have invested in the Me, then I
(26:12):
would have been like, I would have been like, okay,
we're lucky to get because I always use this analogy.
If you took me and Michael Phelps out a mile
offshore and you said, okay, guys. Swim to shore and
the people on the shore are making a couple different bets.
One bet is who's going to get there first? Well,
it's obvious Phelps is going to get their second bet
is who might not get there at all. Well, I'm
(26:35):
going to win that bet every time because they're going
to be like, this guy is not Michael Phelps. He
could drown. Now you're watching the swimmers and and Michael
Phelps is going to take off. Boom. He's going to
be to shore. He's already going to be into his
my tie and getting a massage by the time I
get to shore. And all along on my way there,
I'm going to look like I'm one second away from
drowning because I'm going to be flailing and panicking. But
(26:57):
I get to shore and I'm going to be like,
I made it, I broke through, I didn't die, and
I'm going to be all proud of myself. But to
everyone else looking at me, they're like, good God damn,
they could have gone the other way. This guy could
have died, right. And, and, and that's what the private
equity group was seeing there were they were watching CEOs
that were just like you just just consistent, humble, do
(27:19):
what they recommend. Easy to come alongside with. And then
there was me back then, 29, 30, 31 years old,
doing everything everyone said I could never do. Yeah. And
busting through and building this false identity that I'm just
going to break through every glass ceiling. I'm just going
to do what I think is the right thing to do,
because I was always in survival mode. But if you're
(27:40):
watching that to to the sophisticated person there, watching somebody
flail around that could either sink or swim, I'm celebrating survival.
They're like, Thank God we can get our money out
of this thing and double our money. Yeah. And so
when I look back on that, in reflection, I created
those conditions for them to be like, all right, we're
ready to sell. And, and, and I vowed I would
(28:02):
never put people in that position again. Right. And that
means I had to change as a person. And that
was the journey I was on. And then I met you.
And that's the reflection. I see a young entrepreneur come
in and you're like, hey, man, uh, unlike me, you
were like, I'm building a team. You were so humble
that you were willing and vulnerable, and the things that
(28:22):
you knew you weren't good at, that's contrasted to me.
I was like, I got it all figured out, man.
I'm going to figure it out. In fact, if you
were the me coming in to see me back then.
I would have met with you. And who knows what
this guy's getting. Yeah, right. Yeah. And to see so
much success and to see you evolve as such a
strong leader and and such a. Impactful entrepreneur because really,
(28:47):
you're one of the few that have gone through so
many cycles. It's one thing to become wealthy and build
a business and sell it and get out. But you're
you're still in the cycles. Yeah, totally. So yeah, I
would love your perspective just on how you maintained that
sense of humility because you're the same guy now that
(29:08):
you were back then, because you expressed like how you
view the world right now.
S2 (29:14):
Yeah, I'll tell you. First, a corollary to your story
is actually, um, before I took money in 2014, I
had gone through a cycle with another private equity firm.
And in my mind. The transaction with private equity was like, again,
like a financial exit. And so showed up. These private
(29:36):
equity guys looked at the business. They said, listen, we
really like it. We want to make an offer. And
they said, well, what do you want to do after
we make the offer? Like, what do you want to
do at the company? And in my mind. I thought,
you're going to write me a $20 million check. I'll
do whatever you want me to do. I do not
(29:57):
whatever you want. And so I was like, whatever you
guys want. I think I'm pretty good at marketing. I
can continue doing that. I can do some of the
sales stuff. But you tell me, like, what you'd like
me to do. And they're like, great, let's introduce you
to some new CEOs. We'll bring a professional CEO in here.
They'll run the business. Okay, great. You're still going to
(30:17):
write me that $20 million check. So whatever you guys want.
And I went I started interviewing CEOs with them. The deal,
that deal fell apart, thank God. Because I think back
to that moment and I think like, wow, I almost.
I almost let myself get robbed of this incredible experience
(30:39):
and this incredible journey and all of these challenges and
learnings that I've had from there to today, um, are monumental,
and I almost just gave it all away. And I
think that there are differing perspectives about private equity firms. Um,
and there's probably a lot of negative out there about them.
(31:01):
But the guy on there's a guy on my board,
his name is Todd Crockett. That guy, he really believed
in me. And so when he saw me swimming to shore, he's.
And Michael Phelps swimming to shore, I think, you know.
And when you saw me, I'm a public school graduate.
(31:22):
I didn't go to any Ivy leagues. I was raised
by a single mother. I have no experience in business.
You could see, like when you're looking at you and
Michael Phelps swimming to shore. You could see like the
fast swimmer to shore and go like, that's the guy
I want to bet on. And I think he saw
me in you struggling to get to shore one second
away from drowning every minute, but somehow coming up for
(31:45):
air again and going and going and going and going.
And he was like, that's a better thing to bet
on than somebody who can has had it kind of
an easy way to shore. I want the guy who's
dealt with adversity, who's going to fight through it all
the time. And so, you know, that big bet on
that first acquisition. It was a bet on my ability
(32:08):
to put these two companies together. And he was looking
at A6X return to, you know, like that's his whole
professional career is can I return six x over and
over and over again? And instead of taking those dollars,
he also said, nope, I'm going to let it ride,
and I'm going to let Henry pull these two companies together.
And then again with zoom info when we went, um,
(32:29):
in between the ranking acquisition and the zoom info acquisition,
we had another private equity firm come in, the Carlyle Group,
a big private equity firm. They at that moment to
and Todd had the opportunity to sell all of their
stake again and right off into the sunset. Now it
would have been like a 12 x return or 13
extra turn. And he was like, nope. He went in
(32:50):
front of his investment committee and said, I don't want
to sell all my shares and zoom info. We can
sell part of it. I want to hold on to
the majority of it, and I want to let it
ride on this next stage of their growth. And so
I was afforded this opportunity because somebody. On the private
equity side believed in me and my ability to succeed. And.
(33:11):
You're dancing on the razor's edge of that often, and
so I appreciate how lucky I've been to receive this opportunity.
I worked my ass off for it, but I also
appreciate how fragile it was along the way.
S1 (33:25):
Yeah, I think you've said a couple things are quite
interesting there. Um, first one is, I believe if you
would have sold to that first group, um, everything in
your life would have been different. Yeah. And and the
fact that they didn't have the confidence that there's just
so much to unpack in that moment, because I've been
there to where you want to say, look at your money.
(33:45):
I trust you guys. You wouldn't be betting on us.
You you make the choice.
S2 (33:48):
You went to Harvard.
S1 (33:49):
We gave all our power. We're giving our power away
in exchange for some money. Yeah, that's only temporary. They
would have brought somebody in that wasn't committed to the business.
Looking at purely financial returns, how big can we build it?
How fast? How how do I get my money out
of this thing? Because they brought a CEO into my
business and screwed it up. Of course, I had already said,
you know, I'm not selling. So they brought him in
because they they knew I wasn't going to play along
(34:11):
with it. But yeah, at the end of the day,
that would have been a huge inherent conflict because you're
a good guy and you had been like, well, how
can I support this business? And that person would have
started making different decisions that you had agreed with, and
then you would have found yourself in conflict. So that's
normally why people have a bad attitude about had you
done that first deal, you probably have a bad attitude
(34:31):
about private equity. Yeah, but you fortunately waited and then
you found the right partner and then you, you you
were the right partner to them. Yeah. And and and you,
you had somebody you believed in and that you listened
to who believed in you. And I think that's when
private equity really works. Well, I had that too with Warburg.
But after the third year, because when I wanted to
(34:54):
do a couple of big acquisitions, they were all over
it through their teams at it. There were with me.
We just never could get any of them across the
finish line. And then as I started making other decisions
for the organization, they started losing confidence. I know exactly
what happened. When I go back and look at it
and be real with myself. And so I guess the
moral of this story, if you're listening to this, is
taking money earlier on. If you don't need to, it's
(35:16):
probably not the right time to do it. When you
can make enough money that it's enough coming off the table,
you're like, okay, because that that second time around, it's like,
all right, well, it's a van. I'm stumps up for life. Yeah.
And I think that's a good time to pull maybe
some of those chips off the table. When you look
at when you look at, uh, the scariest moment of
your career, like the one where you're like, you're like, oh.
(35:40):
A momentary freak out, like you're like, oh my God.
You're like, oh, this could all go bad or whatever
it is. That. Was there a moment where you can
relate to? I have one very specific, but was there
a moment where you're like, that's that moment where I
was I was at my highest wigged out spot in
my career.
S2 (35:58):
Um. Yeah. There's two. Um, and I'll give you one
because it's the better one. Uh, I turned 40 this year.
It was my, uh, my birthday was in July, July
30th and July 31st was our earnings release. And I
knew earnings was not going to be great. And we
(36:20):
had internally missed our number. Um, and there were some
things that I was moving around in the business and
I knew that I had to go. It was a
first time I had to go in front of my
investors and tell them that I missed, literally, like I
had gone. 16.5 years. Almost never. I don't think ever
(36:42):
missing a number or a quarter. And I knew that
a bunch of the way, the the way the public
equity market is structured is, you know, you meet with
a bunch of investors, the big ones you have a
relationship with, never as close to what it's like on
the private markets. But enough of one that, you know,
they believe in you as much as they believe in
(37:03):
the business and want to get a financial outcome. And
I knew I was going to have to go in
front of all of these people and tell them, like,
I blew it on the quarter and I knew they
were going to be disappointed in me. I knew the
stock was going to go down. I knew my I,
as I expected, my employees were going to be super
disappointed in me and they were going to have questions
(37:25):
about the company and all of this, you know, bad stuff.
And so it's my 40. It's my 40 year old birth,
it's my 40th birthday, and my wife is like, what
do you want to do? Like you, you know, you
could do anything and go anywhere, do anything, bring anybody here.
What do you want to do? It's like, I just
want to eat dinner with you guys, go to bed
and deal with this shit show that's going to come tomorrow. Yeah.
(37:48):
I just want to be on the other side of it. Um,
and so I did. I ate dinner at, like 530.
I went to bed at eight, woke up, took my
medicine the next day, got through it, got through the
other side of it. And the big realization for me
is that setting expectations is really, really important. And I
(38:09):
did a bad job of setting expectations with my investors.
And when you set bad expectations or you don't meet
the expectations you set for yourself, you chip away at
the trust that people have in you. Um, and so
I learned that lesson the hard way. That was a
really crappy moment. Um, but, uh, so that was that
(38:32):
was one big one. And then, you know, look, being.
Being the CEO of a publicly traded company is very
different than being the CEO of a private company, mainly because, uh,
you're always on and something that you don't have any
control of some outside person or some report or some
analysts or something can just show up on your doorstep
(38:56):
any moment of any day, and you are going to
be responsible for showing up and answering questions about that
or guiding whatever the next steps are. And so you
are always on. And I haven't, you know, this is
I'm almost on my fourth year as a public or
I'm on my fourth year as a publicly traded company.
In a couple of months, it'll be four years. I
(39:17):
haven't quite figured out how to, like, cordon things off.
S1 (39:22):
People don't understand how difficult. It is to be the
CEO of a public company. People dream about it and
talk about it. Um, but you just made 16 years
of always winning. You have one frickin bad quarter due
to all sorts of circumstances. And it's almost unreasonable for,
(39:44):
for for the average person to think that every year
for 16 years, I'm just going to always be better
and better and better and better and better. And yet
you're expected to be absolutely respected.
S2 (39:53):
Yep.
S1 (39:53):
And you can go from here to zero fairly quickly
in the public markets perspective. And then you got to
earn claw your way back and all these other things.
And so I always tell people, look, it's not for
the faint of heart, like the, the, the thrill of
being a public company CEO. It is a different talent,
different skill set to be a public company CEO. Then,
like you said, an entrepreneur or CEO of a private business,
(40:16):
because you're really just answering to the stakeholders and maybe,
maybe banks, if you have banking relationships or used money. Um,
when you think about that, what do you think you
actually enjoyed more? Being being the bigger than life public
company CEO because it is fun. It is when you're
good at it, there's a draw to it. But. Or
(40:37):
did you like the guy that just you just had
you and your partner and maybe a private equity group
to worry about.
S2 (40:42):
So, you know, two things jumped out at me, um,
when you were saying that. But I think one of
them is when when we're about to go public, my
wife was like, why are you doing this? Like, you've
got this great private company. Everything's going well. You like
what you're doing. You answer to a small group of people,
why would you go do this? And I was like, listen.
(41:05):
When you get invited to the Super Bowl, you don't
say no to the Super Bowl. And IPO in your
company is the Super Bowl of business. And no matter
what you told me, if you told me like, of
course you could have IPO, your company or company was
IPO able, you made the choice not to IPO it.
I would go the rest of my life regretting not
(41:28):
taking that opportunity. And so being on the other side
of it and feeling like the, you know, the challenges
with it, the different, um, you know, all of the
different speed bumps along the way. I still look back
and go, I would have made the same decision 100
times over, no question about it. Was it? Easier being
(41:51):
a not a public company. CEO definitely a 100%. It
was easier being a private company CEO than it is
being a public company CEO. But but there are a
lot of things about being a public company CEO that
were much harder for years ago, that are much easier today. And,
you know, you go through these cycles where you just
kind of like learn. What happens after a tough event
(42:15):
as a public company and then you know what happens.
And so if another one comes, you know exactly how
to deal with it. And so experience over time, I'm
sure we'll make it a lot easier. But definitely it
was much easier being.
S1 (42:29):
Well, I know you, I know I know you well
enough that I'm not. I'm going to ask this question only.
So the listeners or the watchers, uh, on my YouTube
channel can, can understand what I'm going to say. But
I know one of the biggest advantages of being a
public company when it works is the fact that it's
really easy to give back to your employees a multiplier
(42:51):
of their effort through the public company success. Yeah. How
many people from startup to now, do you think that
you've created enough net worth or significance that it's it
changed it. It put them in a position for their
lives to be changed.
S2 (43:05):
So on IPO day we did about 170 millionaires.
S1 (43:09):
Oh my God, how good does that feel? That was pretty.
S2 (43:11):
Cool. Yeah yeah.
S1 (43:12):
Oh my gosh. I keep track of how many millionaires
I've I've mentored as well. And and uh and so
it g I had about 120 millionaire multi-millionaires. And since
coming here I'm at probably a 200 now. Wow. Amazing.
Four and a half years. So so like for me
that's my body count. Like how many millionaires multi-millionaires can
I meant. But what I haven't been able to do
(43:33):
is meant that inside for my team yet. Because. Right.
We're not public. There's. Yeah, yeah, yeah there's there's no
liquidity for them and and the and the process in
a private company is entirely different than what you can
do in a public company. And I think that's one
of the best reasons to go public, is so that
you can provide wealth for the teams that helped you
create and build the business. And so for that man,
(43:56):
I look, I know that we're bumping up against some
schedules here. Um, all I got to say is that
I'm so fricking proud of you, dude. Thank you, thank you.
You are a good dude. I knew that when we
first sat down. Uh, and and I wish you would
have backed, then taken up my offer for $100,000. For 25%
of your company.
S4 (44:13):
But I was too dumb to make the. I should
have made it. Damn it.
S1 (44:18):
Um, but, look, you know, you've done something that very
few people on this planet get to do. You're an
exceptional class of of of human beings by creating so
much value for so many people, not to mention the
value that your company creates for businesses that get to
work with you in order to improve their company. And
I know that you and I are going to have
something fun to share with the with the marketplace and
(44:41):
the community here in a few months. I tell you,
for me to you, I just really look forward to
actually doing something big with you and I'm super proud
of you. Congratulations on your success, and thank you for
joining me on my.
S4 (44:53):
Show, I appreciate.
S2 (44:54):
It. Thank you for having me.
S4 (44:55):
All right.
S1 (44:55):
Everybody, thank you for listening and watching for another episode
of Building Billions with Brandon Dawson talking to Henry about
how he's built now zoom info into a multi-billion dollar
company from startup. I hope this inspires you to think
about what it's like to start, grow, scale, and maybe
exit something substantial, or run something bigger than you ever
(45:18):
dreamed possible at the time that you started it. Either way,
our job here is to inspire you. If you like
this show, share it. Uh. Like it? Uh, and comment
on it. Because this gives us the incentive. It gives
us the passion, the joy to continue to shoot these episodes.
So thank you for joining me on another episode of
Building Billions with Brandon.
Hey, it's Brandon Dawson. Welcome back to another episode of
Building Billions with Brandon Dawson. I have a very special
guest today. I've known this guy now for, I don't know,
probably more than 15. Yeah, 15 years, 14 years. And
I knew him when he had a little tiny business. Uh,
just like every other entrepreneur with a big dream starting
(00:29):
out in a small town. And, uh, Henry, introduce yourself.
Tell everybody what company you're with. And, uh, and then
we're going to kick this thing off. Yeah. Great.
S2 (00:39):
I'm excited to be here with you, Brandon. Uh, feels
like 14 years in the making. My name is Henry Schuck.
I'm the founder and CEO of Zoom Info. Zoom info
is a publicly traded company that helps businesses identify their
next best customer by giving them data on companies, the
individuals at those companies who make decisions, and then how
to connect with them, email, phone number, contact information. And
(01:02):
then what we layer on top of that is data
that tells you when a company is in market for
your products and services. So when are they doing research
on the types of products and services you sell? When
are they going to make a purchasing decision on the
types of products or services you sell? And then who
are the people that are making those decisions?
S1 (01:18):
Crazy. Now, now, literally 14 years ago, you and I
were sitting in my office and, and in, in Vancouver, Washington. Right. And,
and we were having a conversation about what your dream was,
what you're going to build, um, your vision for the organization, uh,
(01:39):
your appetite to do something huge. And the fact you
were one of the first aggregators and visionary for big data. Yeah.
And I remember sitting there listening to you thinking, hmm,
I wonder who all would use these services is. It
reminds me of how small I've been thinking my my
whole career. Right. So no matter how big at the time,
I thought I was thinking and and so back then
(02:00):
when we met, I think you were what, probably 3
to $5 million in revenue?
S2 (02:03):
Something like that. I have $5 million today.
S1 (02:06):
How big is your company today?
S2 (02:08):
1.2 billion in revenue. In revenue? Yeah.
S1 (02:13):
How much in value?
S2 (02:15):
Uh, you know, trades every day. Uh, today, around $7 billion.
S1 (02:20):
Seven. Now listen, listeners. 14 years ago, a dream during
three or 4 or 5 million of revenue. To change
access to information for people to use to build their businesses. Back.
Back then, in fact, when we first met it was
called Discover Org. I think that's.
S2 (02:41):
Right. Yep.
S1 (02:42):
And and. Here we are today with a business. $7
billion company. Like, what's it feel like? Just as saying.
$7 billion.
S2 (02:56):
Uh, well, here's what's interesting. Um. When I met you.
The reason why I met you was there was a
woman who was, like, helping community business people with, uh, like,
funding from the state or training programs for employees. And
I asked her, hey, listen, I don't know what I'm doing.
(03:19):
This is the first business really I've ever run. Um,
and it's getting bigger every day, and I don't really
know how to, like, run a meeting or manage my
leadership team or think about building a business. Do you
know anybody that I can go talk to or someone
who might mentor be a coach for me? And she
was like, actually, I know exactly the guy you should
(03:39):
go talk to. You should talk to Brandon Dawson. And
I think when I think about that and what you're
doing now and the platform that you have to do
it is just doing that on this big, big scale. But,
you know, at $5 million in revenue when we first met.
You know, I didn't really know again what I was doing.
My hope was every year I could double the size
(04:01):
of the business and I could see out a year
basically is as far as out, as far out as
I could see. I could say, listen, I know what's working. Well, now,
if I can just replicate that a little bit more
and scale it a little bit more, I can double
it every year. Um, and that's what we focused on doing. But,
you know, look, as I sit here today and you
know how this is, um, I'm proud of the company
(04:24):
that we've built. I'm not satisfied with the company that
we've built. I know it has more potential than what
we've put together today. And so, you know, when I
say 7 billion, I'm actually, like, a little bit embarrassed
by the number because I know that there's so much
more that it could be we can build a much
bigger company. Um, there's much more potential there. So there's
(04:48):
this constant push to keep going even at this stage.
S1 (04:52):
Well, man, I just I want everybody to hear this
because it's so consistent with all the entrepreneurs I've talked
to and what's in in for those that are succeeding,
those that are struggling or like, I just want it
to be good. I just want it to be comfortable.
I just wanted to and, you know, 97% of all
businesses under 100 million fail every ten years. So you
(05:13):
think about both of us. We both you know, I
exited I'm on my next one. Um, you've taken yours
from 5 million to 7 billion in value and you're
not satisfied. So. So for everyone listening to this look,
the show is building billions and I feature. People who
have built companies of all sizes. Um, but I talk
(05:36):
about how to build $1 billion company, which is what
I've been doing the last four years. And I talk
about the exit I have at 77 times EBITDA, but
my God, I can't fathom. You built the $7 billion
valued company and you're still sitting here saying. I'm not satisfied.
(05:57):
I know it could be bigger. I know it could
be better. I want everyone to just think about that
as you're listening to this. Because what I have found
were champions with with people who are serious about building
unbelievable businesses is no matter how big we get. We're
always dissatisfied because we know we can be bigger. Yeah.
(06:18):
And then if you're listening to this, you're like, oh, man,
if I only got to 5 million or I only
got to 10 million, or I only got to 50 million,
I'd be so satisfied. The truth is, it doesn't matter
what number you hit, you're never gonna be satisfied.
S2 (06:30):
Yeah. That's right. When we started the business, I said, like,
I remember I have this notepad where I wrote, like,
optimal size of the business, and it was like eight people. Are,
you know, today we have 3500 people. And, uh, I
do think I was I just went on a vacation
(06:51):
with my family, and I was with, uh, with a
friend of mine, and he said, so how does it
work now? Like, are you, like, built the big enough
business that you can kind of work 2 or 3
hours a day and you can have like, lots of
days off. And I was like, no, it doesn't work
like that. Like I'm working hard every day. Like today
(07:11):
I'm here in Scottsdale. I got back from my vacation
at 630 last night. I took a 6 a.m. flight
to be in Scottsdale today to meet with customers and
prospects at a conference, and I fly back tonight at
1120 on a redeye to be back home at 6 a.m.
so that I can sleep a few hours and get
going again. And none of that, like it, doesn't really
faze me. I'm doing like the necessary things to build
(07:32):
a bigger business and so that we can reach the
potential that I think, um, we have at the company.
And so I don't have 2 or 3 hour days.
I have this constant push that we can be better.
And I haven't met my potential yet. Uh, and as
long as that feels that way, I'm gonna push as
hard as I can. And you.
S1 (07:51):
You love the impact of what you're doing. I do,
and you've always been. I mean, I remember when we
first met, you were sitting across from me. I still
remember that day like it was yesterday, too. I just
wish I would have wrote you a check for half
of your company. That's what I wish I would have
been like. Hey, what's it going to cost to buy
half this company? You know, it's it's it's it's just insane.
Two guys from a little town. I mean, I used
(08:14):
to say I built one of the most successful entrepreneurial
businesses in Vancouver, Washington. And then I say next to
I remember running to a couple of your guys when
you first started at at the gas station. I'm like, oh, yeah,
Henry talks about you. And I'm like, oh yeah, how's
it going over there? And they're like, oh, good, we're growing.
Never did I think that we'd be sitting here a
(08:35):
few years later with a $7 billion company being pissed
that it's not 50 billion.
S2 (08:38):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, totally.
S1 (08:39):
Which I think is speaks to the quality of person
you are, because most entrepreneurs by now would have probably
tapped out the complexity of going from owning your own business, uh,
the whole private equity cycle. Yeah. And then IPO in
your company and then the whole public company cycle and,
and the just the friction resistance constraint that can come
(09:02):
with that if you run into friction, you know.
S2 (09:05):
The hard part, as I'm sitting here thinking about it, is, uh,
I spend a lot of time thinking about, am I
doing the right thing for this stage of the business?
Am I spending my time in the right places? Am
I recruiting the right people? There's no blueprint, and there
are only like a handful of people who've done it
(09:26):
beyond the stage that I'm at. And. What you really want,
in an ideal world, is some kind of blueprint that
tells you like, or some kind of validation. You're doing
the right thing. This is the right. You're making the
right decisions. So I spent a lot of my time
today just making sure that I'm focused on the right things,
that I'm allocating resources properly, that I'm doing the things
(09:47):
that will get us to the next stage. And there's
no very clear map of what that looks like.
S1 (09:52):
I mean, you know, the the when, you know, there's like,
I've engineered 11 breakpoints to $1 billion, but, uh. To
think about going from 1 billion to 10 billion is
a whole nother technical move. Um, talk a little bit about. Like,
what was the biggest moment for you in the growth
(10:16):
cycle where you were like, I did it versus I got,
you know, I know that I know that you're not
satisfied with no matter how much success, because you're that
kind of person. But but what was the point where
you took a deep breath at some point? And when
I actually did it, what where was that in the
business cycle IPO. Yeah.
S2 (10:36):
Like IPO day we iPod in the middle of the pandemic.
It was uh, June 4th, 2020. Um, we open the market.
Stock went up like, I don't remember, 40 or 50%. Um,
it was this great day. Also the market I was
in Vancouver, Washington when we did this. And the markets
close at 1:00, uh, Pacific. And so the market closed.
(10:58):
My day was kind of like over. And it started
at 2 a.m. and it was a beautiful day. It
was sunny, uh, and I had like, the rest of
the afternoon to, like, call some friends and hang out
with my wife and drink champagne. Um, and then have, uh,
we had 20 people over that night. That was a
great moment because it felt really validating. And I'll tell you,
(11:20):
I think the biggest reason why that moment stands out
is along the way, you bring people along this journey
and you basically tell them, like, give me your life
and I will pay you back at some point. And
they have to really believe that you will pay them
back at some point. And then a handful of them
really do give you their lives. They give you basically
(11:41):
every waking moment of their lives for a decade or more.
And so that day felt like, you know what? All
of those promises I have delivered on for my people
who gave me their lives that felt really like, felt
like a relief. And then the other piece that I
felt really strongly at that moment was maybe this is
(12:02):
actually my calling, like I was I came to the
world to do this thing. Like that's what it felt
like at that moment. So that was one the second one. Um. Was.
So I started a company called discover org. Company grew, um,
and we had an opportunity to acquire one of our
(12:22):
closest competitors, a company named Zoom Info. When you go
out and do these acquisitions, in this case specifically, we
raise debt to do the acquisition. Um, and it was
a big enough amount of debt that we actually had
to go get debt rated. So like when you hear
like a junk bond or a, you know, B minus bond,
I didn't know what that was until I was literally
in the room with Moody's pitching this acquisition. And we
(12:46):
had to raise at the time, you know, $1.2 billion
of debt to go do that acquisition. Uh. And then
you build these models and plans for what, you know,
good looks like if the acquisition works the right way,
what are sales going to look like? What are the
efficiencies you're going to get? How are you going to
be able to drive demand? How do you bring the
(13:08):
two cultures together? We make this acquisition kind of on
a Monday. And on a Thursday. I knew it was
going to be an incredibly successful integration and acquisition and
everything where I thought would be. Okay turned out great.
Things that I thought were were going to be good.
(13:29):
We're great. The teams were coming together. The customers were
like really latching on to the vision of the acquisition.
And so I remember calling my private equity investors. That
Thursday and they're like, so how's it going? I was like,
it's better than we expected. And we expected something great,
like a great outcome, but it's way better than that.
(13:51):
I remember that moment feeling like, okay, thank God, thank God. Yeah, yeah.
How big was.
S1 (13:56):
Your business when you raised a billion.
S2 (13:57):
To. It was 170 million in revenue. And then Zoom
Info was another $105 million in revenue. And so combined
the business, you know, almost 300 million when we combined it.
S1 (14:11):
Wow. And you raised a billion and you paid 1,000,000,002 for.
S2 (14:14):
So we I had to raise a billion too, because
we had done another acquisition the year before at like, uh,
300 ish million.
S1 (14:22):
So you're recapping I.
S2 (14:23):
Was recapping that and then, uh, and then about 800
million to buy zoom in.
S1 (14:29):
Man. And you think those are scary moves? You're like,
if this does not work out, I'm going to be
in trouble.
S2 (14:34):
The first acquisition I did, we acquired a company called Reinking,
and it was like a $300 million acquisition. And I
remember the day before we announced it to the team.
So we closed on a Friday. We all flew to Washington, D.C.,
took over their offices for the weekend to do all
the planning and make sure all the pieces were in place.
And I remember the Sunday before the Monday we announced
(14:55):
I was literally having a panic attack. And I was
I called one of my investors who happened to be
in Maryland. I was like, hey, will you come meet
me for lunch? We met for lunch and he's like,
how's it going? I'm like, I think this, I think
this is a panic attack. Like I'm sweating constantly. I'm
really nervous. I don't know how it's going to play out.
And I think the biggest worry was. Our investors have
(15:19):
made an investment in our company almost four years earlier,
and we could have sold the business for 5 to
6 acts, that investment. I could have paid everybody. Everybody? Well,
everybody would have been home run. I would have gotten
high fives everywhere. My staff would have been happy. The
investors would have been happy. It would have been a
great six acts return. And instead we raised debt. You
(15:43):
leveraged we leveraged it all and said, like these two
companies together can be worth more in the future than
A6X right now. Yep. And then that really meant you
had to execute that acquisition in a real, in a
almost perfect way. Or in my mind, I, I thought
of it in a had to be a perfect acquisition. Um,
(16:03):
and then it was, it was this perfect acquisition after
which gave us the opportunity to go acquire zoom info
because the financials of that first M&A transaction were so.
S1 (16:12):
Well, you also showed you knew you know, people don't
understand that that M&A side mergers and acquisitions and consolidation
side is really a testament to other people's confidence in
your ability to execute. And I always say there's three
integration points cultural, operational and financial. And it's very difficult
for business owners that haven't experienced something much bigger to
(16:35):
take their business at a certain size and then massively
grow it and integrated into somebody else's cultural operational expectations. Yeah.
And then get it all to work financially. Well financially. Yeah.
And I just, I, I'm going to just tell you
because I've known you, I've watched you, I've listened to you.
I've seen you from afar. Um, the reason I think
(16:57):
based on my experience, the reason I think your acquisitions
have gone well is because you're a good person and
you're humble, and you're you have productive paranoia, and you
care about what people think. Because the first meeting I
had with you, those are things that you said were
important to you and people who come in like a
bull in a China shop, and they're better than everybody
else and they're bigger. I'm the acquirer. I'm going to
(17:18):
shove it down your throat. They don't succeed just because
they don't have that humility and appreciation for the human
aspect of what's involved with making these things work. And
and that takes me back to like, how big is
for my listeners? How big were you as a company
and what were your revenues when you raised your first
ever money and what valuation did you do it at? Yeah.
S2 (17:40):
So we so I founded the company when I was
in law school, I was 23. I put $25,000 on
my credit card. My co-founder put $25,000 on his credit card.
That was our financing. We did it. We launched the
business in Columbus, Ohio, in 2007. So there was no
venture capital money or private equity money coming into, you know,
(18:00):
a law student and his buddies start up selling data
out of Columbus. And so we knew we had to
build a profitable business because there was going to be
no money that came in that allowed us to grow
the business other than the profits we were generating in
the company. And so, uh, year one, we did 300,000 revenue,
year two did 802.75 1533. Um.
S1 (18:25):
So I met you at the five mark.
S2 (18:27):
You met me. You know.
S1 (18:27):
What's crazy? I you just proved a point, and I
didn't prompt you to do it. I always tell business owners.
When you ask people questions and they're bullshitting you, they're
vague about how they respond. But when you did it,
you never forget your numbers. You just rattle off your
numbers by year, which I do for all my companies,
all the way back to Sonus, because some things you
(18:49):
just never forget. Yeah. And if you've actually done it,
those are so ingrained in you that, you know, when
someone's like, well, you know, I did a little bit.
I'm doing a little better, but they're they're bullshit. Yeah.
So anyhow, I meet you at the 5 million mark.
So you went 5 million then what'd you do?
S2 (19:04):
The 1515. And then I want to say. I think
we went five 1533 well, and between 15 and 33
we took in and we took outside money. So a
year between 6 and 7.
S1 (19:17):
And how much did you raise.
S2 (19:18):
We so it was a it was secondary. So first
the this was the first money in okay. So we
the aura was it was secondary in that the money
went to myself and Kirk. Oh I got it to
buy a portion of the business. Got it. And so
we were at the time call it a $27 million
(19:39):
revenue business with 45% EBITDA margins growing over 100% a
year at that point. Um. And so. And the valuation
was like 275. Wow. And they bought 50, 50, 51%
of the business.
S1 (19:58):
Man. And then? And then from there it just exploded.
S2 (20:01):
And then it just. Yeah, continued to do what it
was doing. Um, and then had an opportunity to do
an acquisition, uh, three years later. Do you wish.
S1 (20:11):
You held off taking that?
S2 (20:13):
I think about this question.
S1 (20:14):
I have a look. I have a lot of friends.
I have a friend that sold at a 75 million valuation, uh,
sold 75% of his business in 18. And they said,
keep doing what you're doing. Patted him on the back.
He took 50 million off the table. And then in 2021,
they sold it for 550 million. He was like, if
I had just bypassed that. Yeah, yeah. But then he said,
(20:36):
I don't know that if I would have had the
courage because it does give you a sense of freedom, like, okay,
I've got a backstop. I can keep going.
S2 (20:41):
Totally like I'm day. I remember that day. Like I
remember every moment of that day. I remember waking up
at 5 a.m. to get on the wire call and
getting on the phone with, you know, a dozen lawyers
from us and a dozen lawyers from them, and, you know,
their whole crew and them going around the horn being
like to. Do we have your approval for the wire, Henry?
(21:02):
Do we have your approval for the wire? Okay. The
money's being sent. And being like, okay, I in a minute,
I'm going to get. Yeah.
S1 (21:09):
Were you staring at your.
S2 (21:10):
Yeah, yeah, yeah. I remember when I came in and
being able to like see those dollars and actually, like,
there's also this weird feeling that like, all of your
wealth is flying around in wires, you know, like, in
the air somewhere, and you're waiting for it to land. Uh, but, um,
so I that moment, it really was like this. It
felt like an exit, a financial exit, and never felt
(21:34):
like an exit for me from the business. But it
felt like a some real financial freedom. Yeah. Then, um,
so I've thought about should I've waited what? Could I
have waited longer, and would that have been better for me?
And when I think about it, what it really comes
down to is. Where did my private equity investors really
(21:55):
start adding value that I couldn't have figured out on
my own? Great and great. And there's a lot of
value that they add, but a lot of it you
could probably figure out on your own. But I could
not have bought my closest competitor in 2017 without access
to the capital markets, access to a real private equity investor,
(22:18):
a real investor behind me, that wouldn't have been possible.
So that meant we did the acquisition in 2014, or
we took money in 2014 and 2017. We did the acquisition, uh,
a company called ranking, we sold at 25. We're about
80 million. When we went out and made that acquisition.
And so that delta between 25 and 80 I. I'm
(22:44):
confident I could have done without help. After that, I needed. Yeah,
I needed a proper board. I need a proper private
equity investors. I needed better mentorship, I needed governance, and
I needed access to the capital markets in a way
that I don't think I could have done on my own.
S1 (23:01):
Yeah, there is a and you can never take back.
I mean, it was such it's been such a great story.
Best and, you know, regret. Yeah totally. But but at
the end of the day it is always a question with,
thank God you didn't take money at 10 million. Yeah.
Or 15 million. Right. Because because that would have been
fairly dilutive compared to totally almost $300 million valuation for
(23:22):
the first transaction. So, you know, it's funny you sent
me when when you and I connected, you sent me, uh,
the email that I sent you, um, in 2013 or
something was and and pre.
S2 (23:37):
Investment, pre.
S1 (23:38):
Pre uh investment and.
S3 (23:43):
Let's see.
S1 (23:44):
And I was like, I remember writing that to you. Um, geez,
there's so many emails between us. Uh. Let's see. I'm
just curious if I can find this thing. Do you
have your phone on you?
S2 (24:00):
I don't.
S1 (24:01):
So.
S2 (24:01):
But it's definitely in your. I think I sent it
to you in that text. Oh, it is probably less noisy.
S1 (24:07):
Yeah, that's probably where it came from. Yeah. You sent
it to me. I just want to read this, uh,
because I go back and read it, and sometimes I'm like,
God damn, I wish I would have known, uh, you know,
because of what I'm doing today. You made a point.
This is really what my calling was. Yeah, totally. But
I had to build operating companies and get my own
skill set. And after doing the private equity route and
(24:28):
going public, it didn't work out for me so well.
And I had to, like, come to terms that I
was part of the problem there. Right. And that's why
I say, I think based on my own reflection in
the decision making I made while I was out acquiring
130 businesses and stuff. Versus. Knowing and watching you and
seeing your humility and all that stuff. Because I was
(24:51):
I was pretty much like, I'm just going to make happen, right?
But you but I wrote this to you after you
came and saw me. July 2013. Henry, equally as a
pleasure meeting you. I'm looking forward to developing a relationship
and watching your continued success. Just remember, leadership isn't something
you do. It's who you are. And it takes focus, intention,
(25:11):
and continuous development to grow. True leadership is nothing more
than influence. When you use your influence to help others see, act,
and attain in life the true impact of all your
intelligence and business wisdom will multiply beyond your wildest dreams.
Then people will not only be impressed with what you
(25:31):
can do, but more importantly, who you are. Yeah, and
because I saw you, I this was still by 2013,
I had reflected on all my previous mistakes and I
was actually in my power move in 2013. My business
was compounding every single year five, six times Inc, you know,
and entrepreneur of the year and all that bullshit and
(25:51):
and so. Meeting with you and seeing your humility was
a reflection. Going back to when I had a $5
million business with Warburg Pincus and thinking I was just
going to take the world over and charge. And then
that's ultimately why I think why they were like, hey,
things are good now we're going to sell out. Because
if I would have invested in the Me, then I
(26:12):
would have been like, I would have been like, okay,
we're lucky to get because I always use this analogy.
If you took me and Michael Phelps out a mile
offshore and you said, okay, guys. Swim to shore and
the people on the shore are making a couple different bets.
One bet is who's going to get there first? Well,
it's obvious Phelps is going to get their second bet
is who might not get there at all. Well, I'm
(26:35):
going to win that bet every time because they're going
to be like, this guy is not Michael Phelps. He
could drown. Now you're watching the swimmers and and Michael
Phelps is going to take off. Boom. He's going to
be to shore. He's already going to be into his
my tie and getting a massage by the time I
get to shore. And all along on my way there,
I'm going to look like I'm one second away from
drowning because I'm going to be flailing and panicking. But
(26:57):
I get to shore and I'm going to be like,
I made it, I broke through, I didn't die, and
I'm going to be all proud of myself. But to
everyone else looking at me, they're like, good God damn,
they could have gone the other way. This guy could
have died, right. And, and, and that's what the private
equity group was seeing there were they were watching CEOs
that were just like you just just consistent, humble, do
(27:19):
what they recommend. Easy to come alongside with. And then
there was me back then, 29, 30, 31 years old,
doing everything everyone said I could never do. Yeah. And
busting through and building this false identity that I'm just
going to break through every glass ceiling. I'm just going
to do what I think is the right thing to do,
because I was always in survival mode. But if you're
(27:40):
watching that to to the sophisticated person there, watching somebody
flail around that could either sink or swim, I'm celebrating survival.
They're like, Thank God we can get our money out
of this thing and double our money. Yeah. And so
when I look back on that, in reflection, I created
those conditions for them to be like, all right, we're
ready to sell. And, and, and I vowed I would
(28:02):
never put people in that position again. Right. And that
means I had to change as a person. And that
was the journey I was on. And then I met you.
And that's the reflection. I see a young entrepreneur come
in and you're like, hey, man, uh, unlike me, you
were like, I'm building a team. You were so humble
that you were willing and vulnerable, and the things that
(28:22):
you knew you weren't good at, that's contrasted to me.
I was like, I got it all figured out, man.
I'm going to figure it out. In fact, if you
were the me coming in to see me back then.
I would have met with you. And who knows what
this guy's getting. Yeah, right. Yeah. And to see so
much success and to see you evolve as such a
strong leader and and such a. Impactful entrepreneur because really,
(28:47):
you're one of the few that have gone through so
many cycles. It's one thing to become wealthy and build
a business and sell it and get out. But you're
you're still in the cycles. Yeah, totally. So yeah, I
would love your perspective just on how you maintained that
sense of humility because you're the same guy now that
(29:08):
you were back then, because you expressed like how you
view the world right now.
S2 (29:14):
Yeah, I'll tell you. First, a corollary to your story
is actually, um, before I took money in 2014, I
had gone through a cycle with another private equity firm.
And in my mind. The transaction with private equity was like, again,
like a financial exit. And so showed up. These private
(29:36):
equity guys looked at the business. They said, listen, we
really like it. We want to make an offer. And
they said, well, what do you want to do after
we make the offer? Like, what do you want to
do at the company? And in my mind. I thought,
you're going to write me a $20 million check. I'll
do whatever you want me to do. I do not
(29:57):
whatever you want. And so I was like, whatever you
guys want. I think I'm pretty good at marketing. I
can continue doing that. I can do some of the
sales stuff. But you tell me, like, what you'd like
me to do. And they're like, great, let's introduce you
to some new CEOs. We'll bring a professional CEO in here.
They'll run the business. Okay, great. You're still going to
(30:17):
write me that $20 million check. So whatever you guys want.
And I went I started interviewing CEOs with them. The deal,
that deal fell apart, thank God. Because I think back
to that moment and I think like, wow, I almost.
I almost let myself get robbed of this incredible experience
(30:39):
and this incredible journey and all of these challenges and
learnings that I've had from there to today, um, are monumental,
and I almost just gave it all away. And I
think that there are differing perspectives about private equity firms. Um,
and there's probably a lot of negative out there about them.
(31:01):
But the guy on there's a guy on my board,
his name is Todd Crockett. That guy, he really believed
in me. And so when he saw me swimming to shore, he's.
And Michael Phelps swimming to shore, I think, you know.
And when you saw me, I'm a public school graduate.
(31:22):
I didn't go to any Ivy leagues. I was raised
by a single mother. I have no experience in business.
You could see, like when you're looking at you and
Michael Phelps swimming to shore. You could see like the
fast swimmer to shore and go like, that's the guy
I want to bet on. And I think he saw
me in you struggling to get to shore one second
away from drowning every minute, but somehow coming up for
(31:45):
air again and going and going and going and going.
And he was like, that's a better thing to bet
on than somebody who can has had it kind of
an easy way to shore. I want the guy who's
dealt with adversity, who's going to fight through it all
the time. And so, you know, that big bet on
that first acquisition. It was a bet on my ability
(32:08):
to put these two companies together. And he was looking
at A6X return to, you know, like that's his whole
professional career is can I return six x over and
over and over again? And instead of taking those dollars,
he also said, nope, I'm going to let it ride,
and I'm going to let Henry pull these two companies together.
And then again with zoom info when we went, um,
(32:29):
in between the ranking acquisition and the zoom info acquisition,
we had another private equity firm come in, the Carlyle Group,
a big private equity firm. They at that moment to
and Todd had the opportunity to sell all of their
stake again and right off into the sunset. Now it
would have been like a 12 x return or 13
extra turn. And he was like, nope. He went in
(32:50):
front of his investment committee and said, I don't want
to sell all my shares and zoom info. We can
sell part of it. I want to hold on to
the majority of it, and I want to let it
ride on this next stage of their growth. And so
I was afforded this opportunity because somebody. On the private
equity side believed in me and my ability to succeed. And.
(33:11):
You're dancing on the razor's edge of that often, and
so I appreciate how lucky I've been to receive this opportunity.
I worked my ass off for it, but I also
appreciate how fragile it was along the way.
S1 (33:25):
Yeah, I think you've said a couple things are quite
interesting there. Um, first one is, I believe if you
would have sold to that first group, um, everything in
your life would have been different. Yeah. And and the
fact that they didn't have the confidence that there's just
so much to unpack in that moment, because I've been
there to where you want to say, look at your money.
(33:45):
I trust you guys. You wouldn't be betting on us.
You you make the choice.
S2 (33:48):
You went to Harvard.
S1 (33:49):
We gave all our power. We're giving our power away
in exchange for some money. Yeah, that's only temporary. They
would have brought somebody in that wasn't committed to the business.
Looking at purely financial returns, how big can we build it?
How fast? How how do I get my money out
of this thing? Because they brought a CEO into my
business and screwed it up. Of course, I had already said,
you know, I'm not selling. So they brought him in
because they they knew I wasn't going to play along
(34:11):
with it. But yeah, at the end of the day,
that would have been a huge inherent conflict because you're
a good guy and you had been like, well, how
can I support this business? And that person would have
started making different decisions that you had agreed with, and
then you would have found yourself in conflict. So that's
normally why people have a bad attitude about had you
done that first deal, you probably have a bad attitude
(34:31):
about private equity. Yeah, but you fortunately waited and then
you found the right partner and then you, you you
were the right partner to them. Yeah. And and and you,
you had somebody you believed in and that you listened
to who believed in you. And I think that's when
private equity really works. Well, I had that too with Warburg.
But after the third year, because when I wanted to
(34:54):
do a couple of big acquisitions, they were all over
it through their teams at it. There were with me.
We just never could get any of them across the
finish line. And then as I started making other decisions
for the organization, they started losing confidence. I know exactly
what happened. When I go back and look at it
and be real with myself. And so I guess the
moral of this story, if you're listening to this, is
taking money earlier on. If you don't need to, it's
(35:16):
probably not the right time to do it. When you
can make enough money that it's enough coming off the table,
you're like, okay, because that that second time around, it's like,
all right, well, it's a van. I'm stumps up for life. Yeah.
And I think that's a good time to pull maybe
some of those chips off the table. When you look
at when you look at, uh, the scariest moment of
your career, like the one where you're like, you're like, oh.
(35:40):
A momentary freak out, like you're like, oh my God.
You're like, oh, this could all go bad or whatever
it is. That. Was there a moment where you can
relate to? I have one very specific, but was there
a moment where you're like, that's that moment where I
was I was at my highest wigged out spot in
my career.
S2 (35:58):
Um. Yeah. There's two. Um, and I'll give you one
because it's the better one. Uh, I turned 40 this year.
It was my, uh, my birthday was in July, July
30th and July 31st was our earnings release. And I
knew earnings was not going to be great. And we
(36:20):
had internally missed our number. Um, and there were some
things that I was moving around in the business and
I knew that I had to go. It was a
first time I had to go in front of my
investors and tell them that I missed, literally, like I
had gone. 16.5 years. Almost never. I don't think ever
(36:42):
missing a number or a quarter. And I knew that
a bunch of the way, the the way the public
equity market is structured is, you know, you meet with
a bunch of investors, the big ones you have a
relationship with, never as close to what it's like on
the private markets. But enough of one that, you know,
they believe in you as much as they believe in
(37:03):
the business and want to get a financial outcome. And
I knew I was going to have to go in
front of all of these people and tell them, like,
I blew it on the quarter and I knew they
were going to be disappointed in me. I knew the
stock was going to go down. I knew my I,
as I expected, my employees were going to be super
disappointed in me and they were going to have questions
(37:25):
about the company and all of this, you know, bad stuff.
And so it's my 40. It's my 40 year old birth,
it's my 40th birthday, and my wife is like, what
do you want to do? Like you, you know, you
could do anything and go anywhere, do anything, bring anybody here.
What do you want to do? It's like, I just
want to eat dinner with you guys, go to bed
and deal with this shit show that's going to come tomorrow. Yeah.
(37:48):
I just want to be on the other side of it. Um,
and so I did. I ate dinner at, like 530.
I went to bed at eight, woke up, took my
medicine the next day, got through it, got through the
other side of it. And the big realization for me
is that setting expectations is really, really important. And I
(38:09):
did a bad job of setting expectations with my investors.
And when you set bad expectations or you don't meet
the expectations you set for yourself, you chip away at
the trust that people have in you. Um, and so
I learned that lesson the hard way. That was a
really crappy moment. Um, but, uh, so that was that
(38:32):
was one big one. And then, you know, look, being.
Being the CEO of a publicly traded company is very
different than being the CEO of a private company, mainly because, uh,
you're always on and something that you don't have any
control of some outside person or some report or some
analysts or something can just show up on your doorstep
(38:56):
any moment of any day, and you are going to
be responsible for showing up and answering questions about that
or guiding whatever the next steps are. And so you
are always on. And I haven't, you know, this is
I'm almost on my fourth year as a public or
I'm on my fourth year as a publicly traded company.
In a couple of months, it'll be four years. I
(39:17):
haven't quite figured out how to, like, cordon things off.
S1 (39:22):
People don't understand how difficult. It is to be the
CEO of a public company. People dream about it and
talk about it. Um, but you just made 16 years
of always winning. You have one frickin bad quarter due
to all sorts of circumstances. And it's almost unreasonable for,
(39:44):
for for the average person to think that every year
for 16 years, I'm just going to always be better
and better and better and better and better. And yet
you're expected to be absolutely respected.
S2 (39:53):
Yep.
S1 (39:53):
And you can go from here to zero fairly quickly
in the public markets perspective. And then you got to
earn claw your way back and all these other things.
And so I always tell people, look, it's not for
the faint of heart, like the, the, the thrill of
being a public company CEO. It is a different talent,
different skill set to be a public company CEO. Then,
like you said, an entrepreneur or CEO of a private business,
(40:16):
because you're really just answering to the stakeholders and maybe,
maybe banks, if you have banking relationships or used money. Um,
when you think about that, what do you think you
actually enjoyed more? Being being the bigger than life public
company CEO because it is fun. It is when you're
good at it, there's a draw to it. But. Or
(40:37):
did you like the guy that just you just had
you and your partner and maybe a private equity group
to worry about.
S2 (40:42):
So, you know, two things jumped out at me, um,
when you were saying that. But I think one of
them is when when we're about to go public, my
wife was like, why are you doing this? Like, you've
got this great private company. Everything's going well. You like
what you're doing. You answer to a small group of people,
why would you go do this? And I was like, listen.
(41:05):
When you get invited to the Super Bowl, you don't
say no to the Super Bowl. And IPO in your
company is the Super Bowl of business. And no matter
what you told me, if you told me like, of
course you could have IPO, your company or company was
IPO able, you made the choice not to IPO it.
I would go the rest of my life regretting not
(41:28):
taking that opportunity. And so being on the other side
of it and feeling like the, you know, the challenges
with it, the different, um, you know, all of the
different speed bumps along the way. I still look back
and go, I would have made the same decision 100
times over, no question about it. Was it? Easier being
(41:51):
a not a public company. CEO definitely a 100%. It
was easier being a private company CEO than it is
being a public company CEO. But but there are a
lot of things about being a public company CEO that
were much harder for years ago, that are much easier today. And,
you know, you go through these cycles where you just
kind of like learn. What happens after a tough event
(42:15):
as a public company and then you know what happens.
And so if another one comes, you know exactly how
to deal with it. And so experience over time, I'm
sure we'll make it a lot easier. But definitely it
was much easier being.
S1 (42:29):
Well, I know you, I know I know you well
enough that I'm not. I'm going to ask this question only.
So the listeners or the watchers, uh, on my YouTube
channel can, can understand what I'm going to say. But
I know one of the biggest advantages of being a
public company when it works is the fact that it's
really easy to give back to your employees a multiplier
(42:51):
of their effort through the public company success. Yeah. How
many people from startup to now, do you think that
you've created enough net worth or significance that it's it
changed it. It put them in a position for their
lives to be changed.
S2 (43:05):
So on IPO day we did about 170 millionaires.
S1 (43:09):
Oh my God, how good does that feel? That was pretty.
S2 (43:11):
Cool. Yeah yeah.
S1 (43:12):
Oh my gosh. I keep track of how many millionaires
I've I've mentored as well. And and uh and so
it g I had about 120 millionaire multi-millionaires. And since
coming here I'm at probably a 200 now. Wow. Amazing.
Four and a half years. So so like for me
that's my body count. Like how many millionaires multi-millionaires can
I meant. But what I haven't been able to do
(43:33):
is meant that inside for my team yet. Because. Right.
We're not public. There's. Yeah, yeah, yeah there's there's no
liquidity for them and and the and the process in
a private company is entirely different than what you can
do in a public company. And I think that's one
of the best reasons to go public, is so that
you can provide wealth for the teams that helped you
create and build the business. And so for that man,
(43:56):
I look, I know that we're bumping up against some
schedules here. Um, all I got to say is that
I'm so fricking proud of you, dude. Thank you, thank you.
You are a good dude. I knew that when we
first sat down. Uh, and and I wish you would
have backed, then taken up my offer for $100,000. For 25%
of your company.
S4 (44:13):
But I was too dumb to make the. I should
have made it. Damn it.
S1 (44:18):
Um, but, look, you know, you've done something that very
few people on this planet get to do. You're an
exceptional class of of of human beings by creating so
much value for so many people, not to mention the
value that your company creates for businesses that get to
work with you in order to improve their company. And
I know that you and I are going to have
something fun to share with the with the marketplace and
(44:41):
the community here in a few months. I tell you,
for me to you, I just really look forward to
actually doing something big with you and I'm super proud
of you. Congratulations on your success, and thank you for
joining me on my.
S4 (44:53):
Show, I appreciate.
S2 (44:54):
It. Thank you for having me.
S4 (44:55):
All right.
S1 (44:55):
Everybody, thank you for listening and watching for another episode
of Building Billions with Brandon Dawson talking to Henry about
how he's built now zoom info into a multi-billion dollar
company from startup. I hope this inspires you to think
about what it's like to start, grow, scale, and maybe
exit something substantial, or run something bigger than you ever
(45:18):
dreamed possible at the time that you started it. Either way,
our job here is to inspire you. If you like
this show, share it. Uh. Like it? Uh, and comment
on it. Because this gives us the incentive. It gives
us the passion, the joy to continue to shoot these episodes.
So thank you for joining me on another episode of
Building Billions with Brandon.
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