July 12, 2025 • 44 mins
What is the antidote to our epidemic of loneliness? On this summer best-of Building Relationships with Dr. Gary Chapman, author and speaker Becky Harling talks about the disconnection with family and friends many are experiencing. What steps can you take to cultivate deeper connections in our lonely world? If you're single and lonely, if you're married and lonely—don't miss Building Relationships with Dr. Gary Chapman.
Featured resource: CULTIVATING DEEPER CONNECTIONS IN A LONELY WORLD
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S1 (00:02):
The feeling is an ache deep inside.
S2 (00:06):
For the mom with young children who craves adult conversation.
S1 (00:11):
It's the cry of the single woman who longs for
a spouse.
S2 (00:16):
It's a desire of a married woman looking for deeper intimacy.
S1 (00:21):
It's the sting in the heart of the woman who
feels uninvited.
S2 (00:26):
It's the misery of the one who's been divorced.
S1 (00:31):
Or the agony of the widow whose husband is gone.
S2 (00:35):
It is loneliness.
S3 (00:42):
I believe that loneliness is not the absence of people,
but it's feeling disconnected. And so when we're not feeling connected,
when we're not feeling bonded, we feel lonely.
S4 (01:00):
Welcome to building relationships with Doctor Gary Chapman, author of
the New York Times best seller The Five Love Languages. Well,
are you dealing with loneliness? From all reports, it's an
epidemic levels in today's society. So what's the answer? How
do we cultivate deeper connections in a lonely world? That's
the question author and speaker Becky Harling will help us
(01:23):
tackle today. She believes that your loneliness, that emotional distance
you feel can be transformed into close, enduring relationships.
S5 (01:32):
That's our topic on today's summer Best of broadcast. And
if you go to Building Relationships, you'll see our featured resource,
Becky's book Cultivating Deeper Connections in a Lonely World. Again,
go to Building Relationships. Doctor Chapman, how is loneliness affected
you or the people around you?
S6 (01:53):
You know, Chris, I've never really had a problem with loneliness.
I do remember when I spent a month in California
speaking at a college, teaching at a college out there
in January course and away from my family for a month.
And I said to a young single adult there something
to the effect that I was feeling lonesome. And he said, lonesome.
(02:14):
He said, yeah, that's different from being lonely. He said,
you know, you okay? You've been out here a month.
He said, but you going home with your family. He said,
lonely is when you don't have anybody to go home to.
And I thought, oh, man, you know, this kid's on
to something there. So yeah, it's a major problem with
(02:36):
the people that I deal with. I mean, there's lots
and lots of people who experience loneliness and just are
not connected, you know, to people and feel like nobody
really cares about me. You know.
S5 (02:47):
It sounds like what he said was there is a
sense of hopelessness when you get into a loneliness situation
because you had hope that this is going to end.
You know, this is a season. But for him, it's
like it's it's ongoing. So I think this is going
to touch a nerve in just about if it doesn't
touch a nerve in your life, there's somebody you know
who needs to hear what Becky Harling is going to
(03:10):
say today. She's a speaker, a Bible teacher, host of
the Connected Mom podcast. She holds a degree in biblical literature.
She's written a number of books, including Our Father. We
talked about the Lord's Prayer here, The Extraordinary Power of Praise,
and the featured resource today Cultivating Deeper Connections in a
Lonely World. You can find out more at Building Relationships.
S6 (03:34):
Well, Becky, welcome to Building Relationships.
S3 (03:36):
Hey, it's great to be back with you.
S6 (03:39):
Oh, we are really glad to have you and especially
to talk about this topic. You know, in the opening
of your book, you talk about a season when you
were surrounded with people but still felt lonely. Uh, I'm
sure some people can identify with that. How about talking
about that a moment?
S3 (03:56):
Yeah. So my husband and I are both in ministry
and we were traveling. It was just kind of a
wild season for us. We on that particular trip, I
think we had been in five different countries. We had
met tons of people. We had been teaching, speaking. We
got back home and I remember thinking, I am so lonely.
(04:17):
And my husband looked at me like, how in the
world we've been with massive amounts of people. But what
I was missing, I wasn't feeling connected. I mean, Steve
and I had ministered really well together, but there wasn't
really like, us time, you know, and I and I
didn't have long extended times in God's presence like I
(04:40):
was craving, you know, it was kind of like quick
devotions in the morning. Step out of our room and beyond.
I was missing my kids, my grandkids and my closest friends,
and I was feeling disconnected. And that's really the feeling
of loneliness.
S6 (04:55):
Yeah. Yeah. Are there different types of loneliness that we
can experience?
S3 (05:00):
Oh, absolutely. I think loneliness is an is an ache
in the heart of the young mom who's surrounded by
toddlers but feels like she never can have a decent conversation.
It's the cry in the heart of the single who
longs to be married. It's the throb in the heart
of the married woman who feels disconnected from her husband.
(05:21):
It you know, it happens in the soul of the
person who feels uninvited. It's, you know, misery. When your
spouse dies, it's, you know, it just can happen. It
can happen in a crowded room where you walk into
a room and you think, I don't know anybody here.
I don't feel connected.
S6 (05:39):
Yeah, I'm sure that a lot of our listeners, you
you gave those various scenarios, were raising their hand along
the way. Oh, that's me, that's me. So let's get
a working definition. Uh, what does it mean to experience loneliness?
S3 (05:56):
I believe that loneliness is not the absence of people,
but it's feeling disconnected from those people. And our hearts
and our spirits and our minds were all designed for connection.
And so when we're not feeling connected, when we're not
feeling bonded, we feel lonely.
S6 (06:16):
Um, it's feeling lonely. Always something bad.
S3 (06:21):
No, I don't I don't think so. I, I think
it can be a great signal that your heart is
longing for God. You know, at the end of the day,
Doctor Chapman, God is our deepest desire. He's wired us
to ache for him. And so sometimes when I'm lonely,
I have to step back and think, okay, what am
(06:42):
I really longing for here? And it might be deeper
connection with God, you know? And so loneliness can be
a signal that you need to be more intentional.
S6 (06:52):
And God's one that's always available, right?
S3 (06:55):
Yeah, absolutely.
S6 (06:58):
Sometimes you can call somebody you think's a friend and
they don't have time to talk to you, or they
don't respond to your text, or. But God's always there.
S7 (07:06):
Yes he is.
S6 (07:07):
Now, throughout the book, you give examples of lonely people.
Can you tell us about someone who's on your heart
right now?
S3 (07:16):
Yeah, I can, and this person is actually not in
the book. Um, it's somebody that I had a conversation
with recently who opened up to me, and she just said, Becky,
I'm feeling so disconnected from my husband. He's lonely. I'm lonely.
It's like we're two ships passing in the night, and
we just can't seem to relate anymore. You know, we're
(07:37):
we're trying, but we haven't gotten there. And in my heart,
I feel so lonely. Because I want that deep connection.
But I don't know how to get there. And I
think that's a classic one, actually. You know, because I
think while singles feel lonely thinking, you know, a marriage
is going to solve my loneliness, there are a lot
(07:58):
of people who are married who still feel lonely, you know,
because they're not connecting to the level they want to.
S6 (08:06):
I'm sure that a lot of our married listeners can
identify with that, and that's something I deal with all
the time in the counseling office. You know, the one
that's on my heart right now is a young, single gal.
She's not really young. She's in her 50s and never
been married. And just recently she called and she said
I hadn't talked to her in a long time. And
(08:27):
she said, I'm just so lonely. I just, I feel
I'm disconnected from everybody. And she said, I don't I
don't even feel close to God anymore, you know? And
your heart always goes out, you know, to somebody who
just feels like there's nobody there for me. And even
my relationship with God is not close, you know?
S7 (08:46):
Yeah, absolutely.
S3 (08:48):
And and yet, you know, when we look at Scripture,
I just feel like I'm supposed to say this. I,
you know, I've been studying the story of Hagar, and
Hagar is out there in the wilderness alone because she's
run away from Sarah, because she knows she's pregnant. And
she identifies God as the God who sees. And God
sees us in our loneliness. He hears us in our loneliness,
(09:12):
and he comes in our loneliness. And I just think
that's so profound.
S6 (09:17):
You know, the Surgeon General has said that we are
in an epidemic of loneliness. Talk about the factors that
contribute to this epidemic.
S3 (09:28):
Yeah, we definitely are in an epidemic. And, you know,
I think one of the chief factors above everything else
is as a culture, we have become addicted to busyness
and hurry. You know, we're always on to the next meeting.
We're always racing to the next sporting event. And because
(09:48):
of that, because we're so busy and moving so fast,
we're not taking time to be with people who we
are well connected with or who we should be well
connected with. And I think that's really robbing us of
some of the relational benefits that that people before us
prior generations had. The other thing is, certainly technology is
(10:13):
having a profound impact on our culture. You know, we
we have kids now who text each other, but they
don't know how to have a face to face conversation.
They don't know how to look somebody in the eye
and talk to them. And it's amazing to see how
many adults are in the same place. You know, they
(10:34):
you go out with a friend to lunch, and all
of a sudden you realize they're texting under the table
and they're not even looking at you. And and when
we do that, we're missing each other. You know, social media,
a lot of people use social media to anesthetize the
pain of loneliness. So, you know, they feel lonely in
(10:55):
their apartment at night. They go to Instagram or Facebook or,
I don't know, Snapchat or one of those TikTok maybe,
and they're just scrolling all night. But it was interesting
in the Surgeon General's report, because that actually increases our loneliness.
It doesn't diminish.
S8 (11:13):
It. Mhm. Well.
S6 (11:15):
I think a lot of our listeners can identify with that.
You know, and especially that busyness stuff that I identify
with that you know, I was just thinking the other
day to myself, I thought, you know, there's about five
people that I've been friends with through the years. I mean,
you know, close friends and I haven't I haven't had
lunch with them or anything in a good while. And
I thought, what is happening here?
S8 (11:37):
Yeah.
S3 (11:38):
It kind of catches up to you, doesn't it?
S8 (11:40):
It does.
S6 (11:41):
Yeah. So I just I made a note, you know,
I wrote their names down a little piece of paper
that I'm going to call them. I got to change this.
So how about the pandemic? Uh, how did it impact
the whole thing of loneliness?
S7 (11:55):
Well, and I.
S3 (11:56):
Think, for starters, the pandemic was the great revealer. It
revealed to us where people were at, what they were feeling.
Many of them moved away from church, you know, they
had to they had to be home watching it online.
And many of them never actually came back to church.
But and then I think, you know, the pandemic had
(12:17):
a huge impact on people who maybe were living alone.
I think Gary, of my dear father in law, he
he lost his wife in February of 2020 and the, uh,
his wife of 60 years. The pandemic hit in March
of 2020, and my father in law was isolated at home,
(12:40):
alone at 92 years of age, you know, and he
was incredibly lonely, uh, because he couldn't go out and
see anybody. So I actually started calling him every afternoon,
you know, and we would chat and talk about life,
and he would tell me stories because he was so lonely.
S8 (12:59):
Yeah.
S3 (12:59):
And I think that's the way it impacted a lot
of people.
S8 (13:02):
Yeah.
S6 (13:03):
I think you're right. You know, we were forced we
were forced into loneliness, as it were.
S3 (13:08):
Yeah.
S6 (13:09):
Now in the book you talk about a theology of belonging.
Tell us more about that.
S3 (13:15):
I love this, actually, because our hearts were designed for God.
You know, way back in the book of Genesis, in
Genesis 126, it says that God said, let us make
man in our image. We were created in the image
of a relational God, a Godhead who enjoyed relationship and
(13:38):
community within the Godhead. And we were designed with this
divine ache where until we really bond with God, our
hearts are going to feel the ache of loneliness. And
then from there, God went on to say, it is
not good for man to be alone. And it's not
(13:58):
just the male species, it's females as well. It's not
good for us to be alone because we were created
to live connected lives, both with God and with others.
And once we connect deeply with God, once we have
found our truest sense of belonging in him, once we
(14:18):
have completely bonded with God, there is this secure center
where we can reach out then and begin the bonding
process with other people.
S6 (14:29):
And really without that sense of belonging and connection to God.
There's even if we have human relationships, there's still an
empty part, right?
S8 (14:41):
Without God. Yeah.
S3 (14:43):
There is. You know, I remember early in my marriage
and probably I'm not alone in this. You know, I
remember thinking, okay, I married this man who I adore
and love, and he is just going to be wildly romantic,
you know, and he is going to meet my heart's
deepest desires. And, you know, about a year into our marriage,
I remember thinking, okay, he's really busy in ministry. I'm
(15:07):
really busy in this other stuff. And where is this
deep connection? And it wasn't until I learned how to
really settle in and find my deepest love needs met
by the Lord. That I was able to love Steve
out of the overflow of a fully secure heart.
S6 (15:25):
Yeah. I think that's such an important truth. Absolutely. Now,
you talked a little bit about this earlier, but this
whole thing of social media, uh, it's with us. You know,
we're not going to keep it from being there, but
what are the positives and negatives? Uh, in terms of relationships.
S3 (15:43):
You know, the positives of social media is that you
can stay in touch with anybody around the world, right?
I mean, I remember being a young missionary living in
Africa and, you know, you had to send snail mail
to stay in touch with your parents or your family
or whatever. Now we have instant connection through the internet,
through social media, through email. And so that's a real positive,
(16:07):
you know, you can connect with people you went to
high school with or college or whatever. The downside of
it is it it almost gives us this fake security
that we have lots of friends when we're really not
deeply connected. We're just seeing pictures. And I think for women,
I don't know if this is true for men, but
(16:28):
judging from the conversations that I've had with women, I
think for women, social media is encouraging them to compare,
you know, so they see a picture of somebody who's
posting on Instagram. You know, I just had a baby
and I'm back in my size two jeans, you know,
six weeks later and they're thinking, that's not my story.
(16:50):
What's wrong with me? You know, and so I think
there are some real downsides of social media and it's
causing us to lose our focus. I read one article
that said we now have the attention span of a goldfish.
That's pretty sad.
S8 (17:07):
Yeah.
S6 (17:08):
Wow. Wow. Yeah, I think I think you're right. You know,
and we don't need to curse the whole thing because,
as I said, it is with us.
S8 (17:17):
Yes.
S6 (17:18):
But I do think we have to recognize that spending
time on social media is not going to build long
term relationships. But you're right, it does help you stay
in touch with people that. That are a distance from you.
And that's wonderful. I just just this week I got
an email from a friend of mine who's in the Philippines,
you know, and so yeah, it's it's the, the positives there. Yeah.
S3 (17:42):
I think I like to suggest to people, you know,
don't spend more than a half an hour a day
on social.
S8 (17:47):
Media.
S3 (17:48):
You know, limit it.
S6 (17:49):
That's an excellent idea. Otherwise it will eat up all
of our time. You know, our free time. Yeah.
S8 (17:54):
Yeah, yeah.
S6 (17:55):
How does humility now you talk about this in the book?
How does humility impact our friendships and why is that important?
S3 (18:03):
It's huge. You know, the last thing you want is
to be friends with a person who always thinks they're
the expert on everything, right? And in our culture, we
are very polarized. People have very strong opinions. And yet
Paul encourages us in Philippians two that we are to
(18:25):
have the mindset of Christ, that we are to look
out for each other's interests. And so a person that
is not humble might monopolize the conversation, always sharing their
ideas and their principles and being the center of attention.
And yet a person who's humble can come in and
and listen and invite another to share their opinion. And
(18:48):
those are the people that more people want to be
friends with. In fact, Harvard did a study that showed
that people who are humble are actually happier than those
who are not. So that's a valid reason to put
on humility.
S8 (19:02):
Yeah.
S6 (19:02):
I like that. You know, that reminds me, the other day,
my wife met a lady she had never met before
and ended up spending about 45 minutes with her. But
my wife said, you know, she just talked and talked
and talked and talked and talked and talked and talked
about everything. And in 45 minutes, she never asked me
a single question about myself.
S8 (19:19):
Yep.
S3 (19:23):
We meet those kind of people on planes.
S8 (19:25):
All the time? Oh, yes. Oh.
S6 (19:28):
Just illustrates that, you know, there has to be a
two way conversation if we're going to build relationships.
S3 (19:33):
You know, we we live in a culture where loyalty
in many ways is a forgotten quality. You know, people
go to a job and they work for two weeks,
and then they decide, I'm out of here. I don't
want this job. You know, I'm going to move on
to something better. And because we are a culture that
moves a lot, you know, and transitions a lot, we
(19:55):
forget people in our lives. So somebody that you might
have been friends with 20 years ago, you have no
idea where they are now. But loyalty is a godly quality.
You know, you think about the faithfulness of God in
our lives, and he's there for the long term. I
think this is so well illustrated with Ruth and Naomi
and the loyalty of Ruth to her mother in law.
(20:17):
And it builds those long term friendships.
S6 (20:21):
Yeah. Now, in the book, you talk about Jill and
illustrate the importance of loyalty.
S3 (20:27):
Yeah. Jill is one of my very dearest friends. In fact,
I dedicated the book to her and one other friend
that I have, and I met Jill during a really
rough season of ministry for my husband and I, and
we lived near her and her husband for several years.
They just they did not have kids. We had four kids. And,
(20:49):
you know, they would come over and help with homework
and come to our kid's musical performances and sporting events.
And I just loved Jill. And when we had to
move from California, I remember thinking, oh, I'm afraid we're
going to lose this friendship. And Jill said to me, Becky,
I am loyal. I'm going to be in this friendship
for a lifetime. I will be an aunt to your kids,
(21:12):
and I'm here. And, you know, it's now 20 years later,
and Jill and I were just on the phone the
other day. Jill still sends birthday cards to all my kids.
She in fact. This is extraordinary. She sends birthday gifts
to all my grandchildren, and I have 14 of them.
S8 (21:30):
So, I mean.
S3 (21:31):
That's an illustration of loyalty. But those friendships are so deep,
you know, and they're precious.
S6 (21:39):
If we're if we have a a friend that is
that loyal, we are. We should be grateful. Because I
think you're right. I think a lot of our friendships
today tend to be related to situations like we might
have friends at work, but we don't. We don't share
anything other than just the time we spend at work,
(22:01):
you know? And if one of us leaves, leaves the job,
then it's probably we probably don't have any contact.
S3 (22:07):
Yeah. And I mean, you can't remain like, long term
loyal friends with hundreds of people. Our brains aren't wired
like that. But if you have a few good friends
that you've been in friendship with for longer than ten years,
that's a beautiful thing. And those are your treasures.
S8 (22:27):
Yeah.
S5 (22:27):
I wonder, though, for the men who are listening to this.
And I just heard you, Becky, say what you just said.
You know, this example of the friend who writes you
and even sends birthday gifts to your grandkids? There are
men who are listening right now who say, this is
such a foreign idea for me, I must be, you know,
I must not be okay because I don't have any.
(22:50):
I've never had any friendships like that. So my question is,
is there a difference between men and women with this
connection thing? You know, can can you alleviate some of
the angst that a man is going through listening to this?
S3 (23:07):
Yeah, I can alleviate the angst, but I also might
offer a little bit of a challenge, you know, because
I'm married to a man that has always really valued
his independence. And, um, it was interesting when we were
living near Greg and Jill. Steve really loved his friendship
with Greg and he has kept that friendship. Now, Greg
(23:30):
and him are not long phone talkers, right? They don't.
Steve doesn't. My kids joke and say that my husband
can stay on the phone for about two minutes, and
then he's done. But but he, um, he does stay
in touch with Greg. And, you know, they will text
each other prayer things. Um, my husband right now is
(23:51):
over in Africa. Greg is praying for him, you know,
and and so I think for men, a lot of
times friendships start around common activities. Greg and Steve both
love hiking. They both love reading. They love to have
conversations wrapped in spiritual things. And and those all have
(24:14):
built their friendship. So you just have to be intentional,
even as a man, even though it's not going to
look like maybe your wife's friends.
S8 (24:23):
Right?
S4 (24:27):
This is the building Relationships with Doctor Gary Chapman podcast.
Thanks for listening and for telling others about our conversations.
When you go to five Love Languages com, you can
find more ways to strengthen your relationships. Just click the
resources tab and you'll find the podcast there and today's
featured resource. Again go to five Love Languages comm.
S6 (24:52):
You know to cultivate deeper relationships. You believe that we
have to let go of a critical spirit. Uh, first
of all, what is a critical spirit and why is
that so important in terms of building relationships?
S9 (25:09):
It it is huge here.
S3 (25:11):
Cheer. Um, because I think a critical spirit is finding
fault with other people. You know, always finding something wrong.
And people come up with great excuses for this, you know, like,
I'm just trying to help this person be better. So
I'm going to point out something wrong with them. I,
I have been in conversations where, um, now these conversations
(25:35):
have all been with women, but I'm assuming some men
struggle with this as well, where I'll in in a
course of a conversation, the other woman will cut down
at least five other people you know. Well, this person
isn't that great because of blah blah blah. Or have
you seen their car? Their car's a mess. Or their kids? Boy,
they really need to get a handle on disciplining their kids.
(25:58):
And here's the thing. Jesus told us not to judge
other people. He told us that we are to love others,
and each of us have blind spots in our life.
Each of us have faults. We don't need somebody else
pointing them out to us. And I think if there's
anything that interrupts friendships, it's when somebody has that negative,
(26:21):
critical spirit where they're always finding fault with whatever. It
could be the weather, it could be someone's house, it
could be someone's car, it could be somebody's job. It
certainly could be their family. And we need to let
go of that.
S6 (26:36):
You know, that it becomes a kind of a lifestyle,
doesn't it? At least it seems to me that some
people this is this is just, you know, part of
kind of who they are, but they don't understand how
it impacts others at the same time. Is there a
place for like, constructive criticism? Uh, you know, particularly if
(26:56):
you do have a friendship with a person or would
you rather call it something other than criticism when you, you,
you try to, you know, help them understand something that
you think would make them a better person.
S3 (27:08):
You know, we have to be careful there because usually
criticism ends up being really negative and it doesn't usually
invite somebody else to change. We do need discernment between
what's right and what's wrong. And I have found that
when you discern that something is really going awry in
(27:29):
somebody's life, like let's say they're getting ready to cheat
on their spouse, or you're seeing them really constantly cut
down their spouse, or you're seeing that they're making some
immoral choices in other areas of life. Start with a
few good questions. And in the spouse example, you might
(27:49):
invite them by saying, you know, if you go that direction,
how will that impact your spouse? How will that impact
your kids? What will be the lasting effect of that choice?
You know, how will it interrupt your relationship with people
who look up to you, and when you ask questions,
(28:09):
it's a little gentler than just saying, oh, you know,
you're a sinner or you know, this is a bad
thing you're doing. You know, because people don't want to
hear that.
S8 (28:20):
Yeah.
S6 (28:21):
Yeah, I hear what you're saying. And I think you
I think you're exactly right. You know, it's. But I
think if you are in a close friendship, asking those
kind of questions can bring up something that if you
feel like that there's something about the person that would
it would really be helped. If they could change something,
(28:42):
then it's really close friends. Uh, you know, you can
ask questions about that kind of thing and have a
meaningful conversation without coming across as condemning them.
S9 (28:52):
Yes.
S3 (28:53):
I agree with you.
S6 (28:55):
How about this whole area of listening to other people? Mhm.
Because I think by nature we're not good listeners, at
least some of us are not good listeners. Uh, so
so where does this fit in to to building relationships?
S9 (29:10):
It is huge.
S3 (29:11):
You know, David Augsburg once said, um, to feel heard
is so closely linked to feeling loved that for most people,
the two are indistinguishable. In other words, if you're not
listening to your spouse, to your kids, to your friends,
to your neighbors, they're not going to feel loved. And
(29:34):
so if you want the deeply connected relationships, you've got
to learn to cultivate that listening skill. You know, in 2017,
I actually wrote a book on how to listen. So
people will talk because I realize so many of us
are not great listeners, myself included. I had to change.
You know, it took a daughter of mine telling me, hey, mom,
(29:57):
you're really not the best listener. And I was like, okay,
I value this relationship. So I'm going to change. I'm
going to put effort and intentionality into learning to listen.
S6 (30:09):
I sometimes talk about two different personality types. One is
the babbling brook. Everything they see or think or feel,
they share, you know?
S8 (30:18):
Yeah.
S6 (30:18):
And then there's the Dead Sea who receives all these things.
But this is not by nature a talker, you know?
S8 (30:24):
Yeah.
S6 (30:25):
Uh, and I think that the whole, the whole. What's the.
You mentioned this earlier. What is the whole role of
questions in this process?
S9 (30:32):
It's huge. You know.
S3 (30:33):
If we can remain curious about somebody's life, about their story,
and I mean genuinely curious, not trying to interrogate them,
but just curious, you know, inviting them to tell you more.
You know, there's really two kinds of people in the world, Gary.
There are people who walk into a room and say,
here I am, and there are people who walk into
(30:55):
a room and say, there you are. And if you
want strong relationships, you need to shift to. There you are.
Tell me about your vacation. Tell me about your kids.
You know, tell me what you love about your job.
Tell me where you're struggling, you know, and just inviting
them to talk and share their heart with you.
S8 (31:16):
Yeah.
S6 (31:17):
Have you, uh, have you thought about this or seen this? Uh,
because as Christians, we have an interest in sharing the
gospel with other people. You know, I mean, this is
a part of who we are. When you have the
good news, you want to share it. But I think
sometimes that in our evangelistic efforts, we start sharing people,
you know, about Christ and all that, and we don't
(31:39):
even know them and they don't even know us. You
know what I'm saying?
S8 (31:43):
Mhm.
S6 (31:43):
And so getting to know them as a person, you know,
and showing interest in them, and even if they have
beliefs that are far removed from our beliefs, let them
share those beliefs with us. You know, ask questions about it.
It's an interesting thing. When did you come to believe that?
How would this you know, just. And if you show
genuine interest in people, then chances are they're far more
(32:07):
open to to somewhere along the line to hear what
you have to say. You know about spiritual things. Have
you observed that?
S9 (32:14):
Yeah, I absolutely have.
S3 (32:16):
And it reminds me of a story. My husband was
traveling in Australia and he had been on a ministry trip,
and he was headed back to the airport. And he
noticed that his taxi cab driver, he thought he was
from Somalia. And so he he started asking him some questions,
you know, and he was asking him about his faith
(32:36):
and about his family. And, you know, um, the gentleman
was a muslim. And so he began sharing about his faith.
And he, he said, you know, I'm not a muslim.
I haven't done the Hajj yet. And Steve was just,
you know, inviting him to tell him more. And before
Steve got out of the taxicab, he said to this gentleman, hey,
(32:58):
I'm a I'm a Christian and I would love to
know what advice would you give us Christians? And there
was a long pause. And this gentleman said to Steve,
You Christians want to tell us how to think, but
you haven't taken the time to hear us or try
to understand us. And, you know, it was such a
(33:21):
powerful conversation for Steve. And he said, hey, I'm sorry
for that. You know, because your life is sounds really
interesting and I wish we had more time to talk.
And then he got out of the taxicab. But I
think it's a good lesson for us.
S8 (33:36):
You know.
S3 (33:37):
People won't listen to us if they don't know that
we love them and care about them.
S8 (33:41):
Yeah.
S6 (33:42):
Yeah. So true.
S5 (33:43):
You know, the other thing that I thought I was
going to say is you should leave a bigger tip.
S8 (33:49):
And I say that thought that I.
S5 (33:52):
Say that with a smile, Becky. But it's true that
a lot of people, you know, servers, a lot of
my kids are servers. They'll say the people who come
in on Sundays or, you know, they know that they're
Christians because they pray they're the worst tippers. And it's like, no,
we ought to be the best. We ought to be
the most generous people on the planet, you know?
S3 (34:11):
Yeah, I agree with you. And I have heard that
same statistic.
S6 (34:15):
And I think this habit is fine. But there are
people that have a habit of asking the waiter or
the waitress, you know, we're going we're going to have
prayer in just a minute. Is there something we could
pray for you? Well, you know, many times they will
share something. I mean, they'll they'll be very honest about it,
you know? But I guess what you're saying, Chris, is
you pray for them, but you don't leave them a tip,
and they're right.
S8 (34:36):
Right. And so what? Yeah.
S5 (34:38):
What do.
S8 (34:38):
They think as they.
S5 (34:39):
Walk away from that? You know, and I love what
you said about him. And he didn't do this as
an evangelism tool or, you know, he was just interested
in other people. When you pigeonhole people as, okay, oh,
here's my Muslim cab driver, you know, or here's my
server who has a tattoo, and I don't know where
she is spiritually. You know, I just kind of pigeonhole them. No,
(35:02):
you just treat people as people and be interested and
and ask questions and listen. I think that's that leads
to those deeper connections that you're talking about, Becky.
S3 (35:11):
Absolutely, absolutely. You know, everybody out there has a story
and every story is worth hearing. I mean, we follow Jesus,
and that's the way he lived his life.
S6 (35:22):
You know, Becky, and the whole thing of building relationships,
you talk in the book about the fact that in
our culture today, we are so distracted with so many things. Uh,
what are those things that distract us from really having
meaningful relationships?
S3 (35:39):
Yeah, I think, number one, we are living in an
information age and our brains are so overloaded with information,
we we take in reams of information every day, you know,
whether from the media and updates on news reports, whether it's,
you know, uh, things that are happening in our culture.
(36:02):
We have social media. I mean, we're just our brains
have become addicted, really, to a quick fix, especially when
we're scrolling on our phones. You know, a lot of
us get the news on our phones, we stay in
touch with our phones. So we've got this cell phone
thing going on. And, you know, I was thinking, um,
(36:22):
this morning I ran out to run an errand, and
I forgot my cell phone. And I confess, I had, like,
a momentary panic, like.
S8 (36:30):
Oh.
S3 (36:30):
I don't have my cell phone. And then I remembered,
you know, like, when I was raising kids, we didn't
have cell phones, right? Everybody had a landline, and. And
yet we've become addicted to our phones. We email on
our phones, we text on our phones, we scroll social
media on our phones, we scroll the news on our phones.
But all that scrolling is dumbing down our brains and
(36:53):
we are so distracted.
S8 (36:56):
Yeah.
S6 (36:56):
And we when we ignore the people around us.
S8 (37:00):
Yeah.
S3 (37:00):
And it creates a disaster in our in our friendships,
you know? Um, I have to tell you this story
because it's so great. When we were raising kids, you know,
it was during during the Beanie Baby era, you know,
where everybody was addicted to Beanie Babies. So our little
girls wanted Beanie Babies. We were on vacation walking the boardwalk,
and our son was about, I don't know, 12 or
(37:23):
14 at that time. And he was waiting for them
to pick out their Beanie Babies. We were in a
candy kitchen, and there was this suction cup on one
of the plexiglass things, you know, and he was fiddling, fiddling, fiddling,
and all of a sudden he popped that suction cup
and it was like something out of a Lily Havrysh
(37:45):
episode on YouTube. One container, hit another, hit another, hit another.
And I mean Swedish Fish went flying caramel balls. And
I mean, it was. And I just got the giggles,
you know? But my husband offered to pay for everything
in the store, and the lady just told us to
get out. But I will never forget that because even
(38:06):
though it's hilarious, you know, we are so distracted that
it creates disasters in our relationships, you know? And we
miss what people are saying to us and how they're
trying to be heard.
S8 (38:19):
Yeah.
S6 (38:20):
Another thing that you discuss in the book that I
think is really important is this whole idea of hospitality.
What is hospitality and how does that interface with, uh,
sometimes people experiencing loneliness.
S3 (38:34):
So hospitality basically is welcoming others into your home. And
it's a biblical concept. Um, it can be welcoming others
into your friend group, but it can also be welcoming
other people into your home. And I think a lot
of us get stressed out here, you know, because we think, well,
my home doesn't look like Chip and Joanna Gaines home
or Martha Stewart or I can't cook like this person
(38:57):
or that person, but most people really don't care. When
you welcome them into your home, the connection goes deeper.
One of the stories that I like to tell is
of my grandmother. I would spend a week with her
every summer in New York City, and every single afternoon
at 3 p.m. sharp, Aunt Isabel would come over. Now,
(39:19):
Aunt Isabel wasn't related to us. I don't know, we
just all called her that. Um, she was just my
grandmother's friend. Every single afternoon, they would have coffee and
coffee cake together in my grandmother's apartment. And I thought
about our lives today. Who has time, you know, to
have somebody over every day. And yet, when you invite
people into your home, the relationships goes much deeper when
(39:42):
you think about it, Jesus invites us to his table, right?
And he says, all are welcome here. And, and and
he wants us to extend that invitation to others.
S8 (39:55):
Yeah.
S6 (39:56):
You know, another thing that you discuss in the book
that I think is important is the whole matter that
if we're going to have lasting friendships, we have to
not be so thin skinned and get offended if the
person disagrees with us on something, say, say a word
about that.
S3 (40:14):
Yeah, I think this particularly hits those who are listening,
who are women. Some of us have gotten to the
point where we just get really easily offended, and then
we back up from relationships, and as a result of that,
we're lonely. You know somebody who disagrees with you, it
doesn't have to offend you. You can allow other people
(40:37):
to hold their opinions and just love them. Somebody maybe
has to cancel plans with you and change the plans.
That's not because they don't like you or love you.
Their schedule just got in the way. But offer grace
whenever you're tempted to take offense. Remember that when you
take offense, it's like a trap that Satan has for you,
(41:01):
and then you back up from a friendship instead of
taking offense. Offer grace. Offer understanding. The friends that are
the closest to me are the friends that offer understanding.
When my schedule gets wonky, when I have big demands
on me and I want to offer them that grace.
(41:21):
Because that's a beautiful thing in every relationship.
S6 (41:26):
You know, as we come to the end of our
time together, I just want you to touch on this
whole matter that you discussed in the book, also about prayer.
How does that interface with our friendships, and can you
give us some examples of the power of praying with
other people?
S3 (41:43):
Yeah. I love my prayer people. And I think of
my dear friend Judy. It's actually Judy. Dunigan and Judy
and I have been friends for over 30 years. And
when our kids were little, Judy and I started praying
together and we prayed for their spouses. We prayed for
their protection. We prayed for everything, you know. And now
(42:03):
it's many years later, um, and and we still check in.
It's nothing for Judy to text me at 5 a.m.
and say, hey, are you up? Let's pray. Or for
me to text her. You know, and it just the
other day, in fact, I mean, maybe a week ago,
we were on our knees at 5 a.m., her and
her house, me and my house. And we prayed through
(42:23):
all 20 of our combined grandchildren by name. You know,
but the depth of that friendship is beautiful. You know,
we've cried together. We've laughed together. We've prayed for our marriages,
for our men together. We've prayed for our kids and
their spouses. We've prayed for our writing and our speaking,
(42:44):
and the depth of that friendship is so deep because
we could get on our knees together, and you just
can't pray with another person without it going, without the
relationship going deeper. So I like to tell spouses, listen,
if you feel disconnected, get on your knees together and
start praying together and watch what God does.
S6 (43:06):
Great idea. Well, I want to thank you for being
with us today, and also thank you for writing this book.
I think it's going to help anyone, male or female.
And if they're feeling lonely, it's going to give them
ideas on how to interface with other people. And if
they're not feeling lonely, we all encounter people who are lonely,
(43:26):
and if we ask questions of them, we will find
out where they are and we will have an opportunity
to minister to them. So again, thanks for all the
effort and prayer and time that you put into writing
this book and for being with us today.
S3 (43:40):
Thank you for having me. It was a joy.
S5 (43:43):
Well, if this conversation has touched a nerve inside and
you feel a desire for deeper friendships and you don't
know where to start, go to Building relationships and check
out our featured resource, Becky Harling's book, Cultivating Deeper Connections
in a Lonely World. Just go to Building Relationships, and
(44:03):
our summer best of conversations continue in one week when
Rhonda will join us and talk about the Mindful marriage.
Don't miss the encouragement in one week!
S4 (44:14):
A big thank you to our production team, Steve Wick
and Janice backing. Building relationships with Doctor Gary Chapman is
a production of Moody Radio in association with Moody Publishers,
a ministry of Moody Bible Institute. Thanks for listening.
The feeling is an ache deep inside.
S2 (00:06):
For the mom with young children who craves adult conversation.
S1 (00:11):
It's the cry of the single woman who longs for
a spouse.
S2 (00:16):
It's a desire of a married woman looking for deeper intimacy.
S1 (00:21):
It's the sting in the heart of the woman who
feels uninvited.
S2 (00:26):
It's the misery of the one who's been divorced.
S1 (00:31):
Or the agony of the widow whose husband is gone.
S2 (00:35):
It is loneliness.
S3 (00:42):
I believe that loneliness is not the absence of people,
but it's feeling disconnected. And so when we're not feeling connected,
when we're not feeling bonded, we feel lonely.
S4 (01:00):
Welcome to building relationships with Doctor Gary Chapman, author of
the New York Times best seller The Five Love Languages. Well,
are you dealing with loneliness? From all reports, it's an
epidemic levels in today's society. So what's the answer? How
do we cultivate deeper connections in a lonely world? That's
the question author and speaker Becky Harling will help us
(01:23):
tackle today. She believes that your loneliness, that emotional distance
you feel can be transformed into close, enduring relationships.
S5 (01:32):
That's our topic on today's summer Best of broadcast. And
if you go to Building Relationships, you'll see our featured resource,
Becky's book Cultivating Deeper Connections in a Lonely World. Again,
go to Building Relationships. Doctor Chapman, how is loneliness affected
you or the people around you?
S6 (01:53):
You know, Chris, I've never really had a problem with loneliness.
I do remember when I spent a month in California
speaking at a college, teaching at a college out there
in January course and away from my family for a month.
And I said to a young single adult there something
to the effect that I was feeling lonesome. And he said, lonesome.
(02:14):
He said, yeah, that's different from being lonely. He said,
you know, you okay? You've been out here a month.
He said, but you going home with your family. He said,
lonely is when you don't have anybody to go home to.
And I thought, oh, man, you know, this kid's on
to something there. So yeah, it's a major problem with
(02:36):
the people that I deal with. I mean, there's lots
and lots of people who experience loneliness and just are
not connected, you know, to people and feel like nobody
really cares about me. You know.
S5 (02:47):
It sounds like what he said was there is a
sense of hopelessness when you get into a loneliness situation
because you had hope that this is going to end.
You know, this is a season. But for him, it's
like it's it's ongoing. So I think this is going
to touch a nerve in just about if it doesn't
touch a nerve in your life, there's somebody you know
who needs to hear what Becky Harling is going to
(03:10):
say today. She's a speaker, a Bible teacher, host of
the Connected Mom podcast. She holds a degree in biblical literature.
She's written a number of books, including Our Father. We
talked about the Lord's Prayer here, The Extraordinary Power of Praise,
and the featured resource today Cultivating Deeper Connections in a
Lonely World. You can find out more at Building Relationships.
S6 (03:34):
Well, Becky, welcome to Building Relationships.
S3 (03:36):
Hey, it's great to be back with you.
S6 (03:39):
Oh, we are really glad to have you and especially
to talk about this topic. You know, in the opening
of your book, you talk about a season when you
were surrounded with people but still felt lonely. Uh, I'm
sure some people can identify with that. How about talking
about that a moment?
S3 (03:56):
Yeah. So my husband and I are both in ministry
and we were traveling. It was just kind of a
wild season for us. We on that particular trip, I
think we had been in five different countries. We had
met tons of people. We had been teaching, speaking. We
got back home and I remember thinking, I am so lonely.
(04:17):
And my husband looked at me like, how in the
world we've been with massive amounts of people. But what
I was missing, I wasn't feeling connected. I mean, Steve
and I had ministered really well together, but there wasn't
really like, us time, you know, and I and I
didn't have long extended times in God's presence like I
(04:40):
was craving, you know, it was kind of like quick
devotions in the morning. Step out of our room and beyond.
I was missing my kids, my grandkids and my closest friends,
and I was feeling disconnected. And that's really the feeling
of loneliness.
S6 (04:55):
Yeah. Yeah. Are there different types of loneliness that we
can experience?
S3 (05:00):
Oh, absolutely. I think loneliness is an is an ache
in the heart of the young mom who's surrounded by
toddlers but feels like she never can have a decent conversation.
It's the cry in the heart of the single who
longs to be married. It's the throb in the heart
of the married woman who feels disconnected from her husband.
(05:21):
It you know, it happens in the soul of the
person who feels uninvited. It's, you know, misery. When your
spouse dies, it's, you know, it just can happen. It
can happen in a crowded room where you walk into
a room and you think, I don't know anybody here.
I don't feel connected.
S6 (05:39):
Yeah, I'm sure that a lot of our listeners, you
you gave those various scenarios, were raising their hand along
the way. Oh, that's me, that's me. So let's get
a working definition. Uh, what does it mean to experience loneliness?
S3 (05:56):
I believe that loneliness is not the absence of people,
but it's feeling disconnected from those people. And our hearts
and our spirits and our minds were all designed for connection.
And so when we're not feeling connected, when we're not
feeling bonded, we feel lonely.
S6 (06:16):
Um, it's feeling lonely. Always something bad.
S3 (06:21):
No, I don't I don't think so. I, I think
it can be a great signal that your heart is
longing for God. You know, at the end of the day,
Doctor Chapman, God is our deepest desire. He's wired us
to ache for him. And so sometimes when I'm lonely,
I have to step back and think, okay, what am
(06:42):
I really longing for here? And it might be deeper
connection with God, you know? And so loneliness can be
a signal that you need to be more intentional.
S6 (06:52):
And God's one that's always available, right?
S3 (06:55):
Yeah, absolutely.
S6 (06:58):
Sometimes you can call somebody you think's a friend and
they don't have time to talk to you, or they
don't respond to your text, or. But God's always there.
S7 (07:06):
Yes he is.
S6 (07:07):
Now, throughout the book, you give examples of lonely people.
Can you tell us about someone who's on your heart
right now?
S3 (07:16):
Yeah, I can, and this person is actually not in
the book. Um, it's somebody that I had a conversation
with recently who opened up to me, and she just said, Becky,
I'm feeling so disconnected from my husband. He's lonely. I'm lonely.
It's like we're two ships passing in the night, and
we just can't seem to relate anymore. You know, we're
(07:37):
we're trying, but we haven't gotten there. And in my heart,
I feel so lonely. Because I want that deep connection.
But I don't know how to get there. And I
think that's a classic one, actually. You know, because I
think while singles feel lonely thinking, you know, a marriage
is going to solve my loneliness, there are a lot
(07:58):
of people who are married who still feel lonely, you know,
because they're not connecting to the level they want to.
S6 (08:06):
I'm sure that a lot of our married listeners can
identify with that, and that's something I deal with all
the time in the counseling office. You know, the one
that's on my heart right now is a young, single gal.
She's not really young. She's in her 50s and never
been married. And just recently she called and she said
I hadn't talked to her in a long time. And
(08:27):
she said, I'm just so lonely. I just, I feel
I'm disconnected from everybody. And she said, I don't I
don't even feel close to God anymore, you know? And
your heart always goes out, you know, to somebody who
just feels like there's nobody there for me. And even
my relationship with God is not close, you know?
S7 (08:46):
Yeah, absolutely.
S3 (08:48):
And and yet, you know, when we look at Scripture,
I just feel like I'm supposed to say this. I,
you know, I've been studying the story of Hagar, and
Hagar is out there in the wilderness alone because she's
run away from Sarah, because she knows she's pregnant. And
she identifies God as the God who sees. And God
sees us in our loneliness. He hears us in our loneliness,
(09:12):
and he comes in our loneliness. And I just think
that's so profound.
S6 (09:17):
You know, the Surgeon General has said that we are
in an epidemic of loneliness. Talk about the factors that
contribute to this epidemic.
S3 (09:28):
Yeah, we definitely are in an epidemic. And, you know,
I think one of the chief factors above everything else
is as a culture, we have become addicted to busyness
and hurry. You know, we're always on to the next meeting.
We're always racing to the next sporting event. And because
(09:48):
of that, because we're so busy and moving so fast,
we're not taking time to be with people who we
are well connected with or who we should be well
connected with. And I think that's really robbing us of
some of the relational benefits that that people before us
prior generations had. The other thing is, certainly technology is
(10:13):
having a profound impact on our culture. You know, we
we have kids now who text each other, but they
don't know how to have a face to face conversation.
They don't know how to look somebody in the eye
and talk to them. And it's amazing to see how
many adults are in the same place. You know, they
(10:34):
you go out with a friend to lunch, and all
of a sudden you realize they're texting under the table
and they're not even looking at you. And and when
we do that, we're missing each other. You know, social media,
a lot of people use social media to anesthetize the
pain of loneliness. So, you know, they feel lonely in
(10:55):
their apartment at night. They go to Instagram or Facebook or,
I don't know, Snapchat or one of those TikTok maybe,
and they're just scrolling all night. But it was interesting
in the Surgeon General's report, because that actually increases our loneliness.
It doesn't diminish.
S8 (11:13):
It. Mhm. Well.
S6 (11:15):
I think a lot of our listeners can identify with that.
You know, and especially that busyness stuff that I identify
with that you know, I was just thinking the other
day to myself, I thought, you know, there's about five
people that I've been friends with through the years. I mean,
you know, close friends and I haven't I haven't had
lunch with them or anything in a good while. And
I thought, what is happening here?
S8 (11:37):
Yeah.
S3 (11:38):
It kind of catches up to you, doesn't it?
S8 (11:40):
It does.
S6 (11:41):
Yeah. So I just I made a note, you know,
I wrote their names down a little piece of paper
that I'm going to call them. I got to change this.
So how about the pandemic? Uh, how did it impact
the whole thing of loneliness?
S7 (11:55):
Well, and I.
S3 (11:56):
Think, for starters, the pandemic was the great revealer. It
revealed to us where people were at, what they were feeling.
Many of them moved away from church, you know, they
had to they had to be home watching it online.
And many of them never actually came back to church.
But and then I think, you know, the pandemic had
(12:17):
a huge impact on people who maybe were living alone.
I think Gary, of my dear father in law, he
he lost his wife in February of 2020 and the, uh,
his wife of 60 years. The pandemic hit in March
of 2020, and my father in law was isolated at home,
(12:40):
alone at 92 years of age, you know, and he
was incredibly lonely, uh, because he couldn't go out and
see anybody. So I actually started calling him every afternoon,
you know, and we would chat and talk about life,
and he would tell me stories because he was so lonely.
S8 (12:59):
Yeah.
S3 (12:59):
And I think that's the way it impacted a lot
of people.
S8 (13:02):
Yeah.
S6 (13:03):
I think you're right. You know, we were forced we
were forced into loneliness, as it were.
S3 (13:08):
Yeah.
S6 (13:09):
Now in the book you talk about a theology of belonging.
Tell us more about that.
S3 (13:15):
I love this, actually, because our hearts were designed for God.
You know, way back in the book of Genesis, in
Genesis 126, it says that God said, let us make
man in our image. We were created in the image
of a relational God, a Godhead who enjoyed relationship and
(13:38):
community within the Godhead. And we were designed with this
divine ache where until we really bond with God, our
hearts are going to feel the ache of loneliness. And
then from there, God went on to say, it is
not good for man to be alone. And it's not
(13:58):
just the male species, it's females as well. It's not
good for us to be alone because we were created
to live connected lives, both with God and with others.
And once we connect deeply with God, once we have
found our truest sense of belonging in him, once we
(14:18):
have completely bonded with God, there is this secure center
where we can reach out then and begin the bonding
process with other people.
S6 (14:29):
And really without that sense of belonging and connection to God.
There's even if we have human relationships, there's still an
empty part, right?
S8 (14:41):
Without God. Yeah.
S3 (14:43):
There is. You know, I remember early in my marriage
and probably I'm not alone in this. You know, I
remember thinking, okay, I married this man who I adore
and love, and he is just going to be wildly romantic,
you know, and he is going to meet my heart's
deepest desires. And, you know, about a year into our marriage,
I remember thinking, okay, he's really busy in ministry. I'm
(15:07):
really busy in this other stuff. And where is this
deep connection? And it wasn't until I learned how to
really settle in and find my deepest love needs met
by the Lord. That I was able to love Steve
out of the overflow of a fully secure heart.
S6 (15:25):
Yeah. I think that's such an important truth. Absolutely. Now,
you talked a little bit about this earlier, but this
whole thing of social media, uh, it's with us. You know,
we're not going to keep it from being there, but
what are the positives and negatives? Uh, in terms of relationships.
S3 (15:43):
You know, the positives of social media is that you
can stay in touch with anybody around the world, right?
I mean, I remember being a young missionary living in
Africa and, you know, you had to send snail mail
to stay in touch with your parents or your family
or whatever. Now we have instant connection through the internet,
through social media, through email. And so that's a real positive,
(16:07):
you know, you can connect with people you went to
high school with or college or whatever. The downside of
it is it it almost gives us this fake security
that we have lots of friends when we're really not
deeply connected. We're just seeing pictures. And I think for women,
I don't know if this is true for men, but
(16:28):
judging from the conversations that I've had with women, I
think for women, social media is encouraging them to compare,
you know, so they see a picture of somebody who's
posting on Instagram. You know, I just had a baby
and I'm back in my size two jeans, you know,
six weeks later and they're thinking, that's not my story.
(16:50):
What's wrong with me? You know, and so I think
there are some real downsides of social media and it's
causing us to lose our focus. I read one article
that said we now have the attention span of a goldfish.
That's pretty sad.
S8 (17:07):
Yeah.
S6 (17:08):
Wow. Wow. Yeah, I think I think you're right. You know,
and we don't need to curse the whole thing because,
as I said, it is with us.
S8 (17:17):
Yes.
S6 (17:18):
But I do think we have to recognize that spending
time on social media is not going to build long
term relationships. But you're right, it does help you stay
in touch with people that. That are a distance from you.
And that's wonderful. I just just this week I got
an email from a friend of mine who's in the Philippines,
you know, and so yeah, it's it's the, the positives there. Yeah.
S3 (17:42):
I think I like to suggest to people, you know,
don't spend more than a half an hour a day
on social.
S8 (17:47):
Media.
S3 (17:48):
You know, limit it.
S6 (17:49):
That's an excellent idea. Otherwise it will eat up all
of our time. You know, our free time. Yeah.
S8 (17:54):
Yeah, yeah.
S6 (17:55):
How does humility now you talk about this in the book?
How does humility impact our friendships and why is that important?
S3 (18:03):
It's huge. You know, the last thing you want is
to be friends with a person who always thinks they're
the expert on everything, right? And in our culture, we
are very polarized. People have very strong opinions. And yet
Paul encourages us in Philippians two that we are to
(18:25):
have the mindset of Christ, that we are to look
out for each other's interests. And so a person that
is not humble might monopolize the conversation, always sharing their
ideas and their principles and being the center of attention.
And yet a person who's humble can come in and
and listen and invite another to share their opinion. And
(18:48):
those are the people that more people want to be
friends with. In fact, Harvard did a study that showed
that people who are humble are actually happier than those
who are not. So that's a valid reason to put
on humility.
S8 (19:02):
Yeah.
S6 (19:02):
I like that. You know, that reminds me, the other day,
my wife met a lady she had never met before
and ended up spending about 45 minutes with her. But
my wife said, you know, she just talked and talked
and talked and talked and talked and talked and talked
about everything. And in 45 minutes, she never asked me
a single question about myself.
S8 (19:19):
Yep.
S3 (19:23):
We meet those kind of people on planes.
S8 (19:25):
All the time? Oh, yes. Oh.
S6 (19:28):
Just illustrates that, you know, there has to be a
two way conversation if we're going to build relationships.
S3 (19:33):
You know, we we live in a culture where loyalty
in many ways is a forgotten quality. You know, people
go to a job and they work for two weeks,
and then they decide, I'm out of here. I don't
want this job. You know, I'm going to move on
to something better. And because we are a culture that
moves a lot, you know, and transitions a lot, we
(19:55):
forget people in our lives. So somebody that you might
have been friends with 20 years ago, you have no
idea where they are now. But loyalty is a godly quality.
You know, you think about the faithfulness of God in
our lives, and he's there for the long term. I
think this is so well illustrated with Ruth and Naomi
and the loyalty of Ruth to her mother in law.
(20:17):
And it builds those long term friendships.
S6 (20:21):
Yeah. Now, in the book, you talk about Jill and
illustrate the importance of loyalty.
S3 (20:27):
Yeah. Jill is one of my very dearest friends. In fact,
I dedicated the book to her and one other friend
that I have, and I met Jill during a really
rough season of ministry for my husband and I, and
we lived near her and her husband for several years.
They just they did not have kids. We had four kids. And,
(20:49):
you know, they would come over and help with homework
and come to our kid's musical performances and sporting events.
And I just loved Jill. And when we had to
move from California, I remember thinking, oh, I'm afraid we're
going to lose this friendship. And Jill said to me, Becky,
I am loyal. I'm going to be in this friendship
for a lifetime. I will be an aunt to your kids,
(21:12):
and I'm here. And, you know, it's now 20 years later,
and Jill and I were just on the phone the
other day. Jill still sends birthday cards to all my kids.
She in fact. This is extraordinary. She sends birthday gifts
to all my grandchildren, and I have 14 of them.
S8 (21:30):
So, I mean.
S3 (21:31):
That's an illustration of loyalty. But those friendships are so deep,
you know, and they're precious.
S6 (21:39):
If we're if we have a a friend that is
that loyal, we are. We should be grateful. Because I
think you're right. I think a lot of our friendships
today tend to be related to situations like we might
have friends at work, but we don't. We don't share
anything other than just the time we spend at work,
(22:01):
you know? And if one of us leaves, leaves the job,
then it's probably we probably don't have any contact.
S3 (22:07):
Yeah. And I mean, you can't remain like, long term
loyal friends with hundreds of people. Our brains aren't wired
like that. But if you have a few good friends
that you've been in friendship with for longer than ten years,
that's a beautiful thing. And those are your treasures.
S8 (22:27):
Yeah.
S5 (22:27):
I wonder, though, for the men who are listening to this.
And I just heard you, Becky, say what you just said.
You know, this example of the friend who writes you
and even sends birthday gifts to your grandkids? There are
men who are listening right now who say, this is
such a foreign idea for me, I must be, you know,
I must not be okay because I don't have any.
(22:50):
I've never had any friendships like that. So my question is,
is there a difference between men and women with this
connection thing? You know, can can you alleviate some of
the angst that a man is going through listening to this?
S3 (23:07):
Yeah, I can alleviate the angst, but I also might
offer a little bit of a challenge, you know, because
I'm married to a man that has always really valued
his independence. And, um, it was interesting when we were
living near Greg and Jill. Steve really loved his friendship
with Greg and he has kept that friendship. Now, Greg
(23:30):
and him are not long phone talkers, right? They don't.
Steve doesn't. My kids joke and say that my husband
can stay on the phone for about two minutes, and
then he's done. But but he, um, he does stay
in touch with Greg. And, you know, they will text
each other prayer things. Um, my husband right now is
(23:51):
over in Africa. Greg is praying for him, you know,
and and so I think for men, a lot of
times friendships start around common activities. Greg and Steve both
love hiking. They both love reading. They love to have
conversations wrapped in spiritual things. And and those all have
(24:14):
built their friendship. So you just have to be intentional,
even as a man, even though it's not going to
look like maybe your wife's friends.
S8 (24:23):
Right?
S4 (24:27):
This is the building Relationships with Doctor Gary Chapman podcast.
Thanks for listening and for telling others about our conversations.
When you go to five Love Languages com, you can
find more ways to strengthen your relationships. Just click the
resources tab and you'll find the podcast there and today's
featured resource. Again go to five Love Languages comm.
S6 (24:52):
You know to cultivate deeper relationships. You believe that we
have to let go of a critical spirit. Uh, first
of all, what is a critical spirit and why is
that so important in terms of building relationships?
S9 (25:09):
It it is huge here.
S3 (25:11):
Cheer. Um, because I think a critical spirit is finding
fault with other people. You know, always finding something wrong.
And people come up with great excuses for this, you know, like,
I'm just trying to help this person be better. So
I'm going to point out something wrong with them. I,
I have been in conversations where, um, now these conversations
(25:35):
have all been with women, but I'm assuming some men
struggle with this as well, where I'll in in a
course of a conversation, the other woman will cut down
at least five other people you know. Well, this person
isn't that great because of blah blah blah. Or have
you seen their car? Their car's a mess. Or their kids? Boy,
they really need to get a handle on disciplining their kids.
(25:58):
And here's the thing. Jesus told us not to judge
other people. He told us that we are to love others,
and each of us have blind spots in our life.
Each of us have faults. We don't need somebody else
pointing them out to us. And I think if there's
anything that interrupts friendships, it's when somebody has that negative,
(26:21):
critical spirit where they're always finding fault with whatever. It
could be the weather, it could be someone's house, it
could be someone's car, it could be somebody's job. It
certainly could be their family. And we need to let
go of that.
S6 (26:36):
You know, that it becomes a kind of a lifestyle,
doesn't it? At least it seems to me that some
people this is this is just, you know, part of
kind of who they are, but they don't understand how
it impacts others at the same time. Is there a
place for like, constructive criticism? Uh, you know, particularly if
(26:56):
you do have a friendship with a person or would
you rather call it something other than criticism when you, you,
you try to, you know, help them understand something that
you think would make them a better person.
S3 (27:08):
You know, we have to be careful there because usually
criticism ends up being really negative and it doesn't usually
invite somebody else to change. We do need discernment between
what's right and what's wrong. And I have found that
when you discern that something is really going awry in
(27:29):
somebody's life, like let's say they're getting ready to cheat
on their spouse, or you're seeing them really constantly cut
down their spouse, or you're seeing that they're making some
immoral choices in other areas of life. Start with a
few good questions. And in the spouse example, you might
(27:49):
invite them by saying, you know, if you go that direction,
how will that impact your spouse? How will that impact
your kids? What will be the lasting effect of that choice?
You know, how will it interrupt your relationship with people
who look up to you, and when you ask questions,
(28:09):
it's a little gentler than just saying, oh, you know,
you're a sinner or you know, this is a bad
thing you're doing. You know, because people don't want to
hear that.
S8 (28:20):
Yeah.
S6 (28:21):
Yeah, I hear what you're saying. And I think you
I think you're exactly right. You know, it's. But I
think if you are in a close friendship, asking those
kind of questions can bring up something that if you
feel like that there's something about the person that would
it would really be helped. If they could change something,
(28:42):
then it's really close friends. Uh, you know, you can
ask questions about that kind of thing and have a
meaningful conversation without coming across as condemning them.
S9 (28:52):
Yes.
S3 (28:53):
I agree with you.
S6 (28:55):
How about this whole area of listening to other people? Mhm.
Because I think by nature we're not good listeners, at
least some of us are not good listeners. Uh, so
so where does this fit in to to building relationships?
S9 (29:10):
It is huge.
S3 (29:11):
You know, David Augsburg once said, um, to feel heard
is so closely linked to feeling loved that for most people,
the two are indistinguishable. In other words, if you're not
listening to your spouse, to your kids, to your friends,
to your neighbors, they're not going to feel loved. And
(29:34):
so if you want the deeply connected relationships, you've got
to learn to cultivate that listening skill. You know, in 2017,
I actually wrote a book on how to listen. So
people will talk because I realize so many of us
are not great listeners, myself included. I had to change.
You know, it took a daughter of mine telling me, hey, mom,
(29:57):
you're really not the best listener. And I was like, okay,
I value this relationship. So I'm going to change. I'm
going to put effort and intentionality into learning to listen.
S6 (30:09):
I sometimes talk about two different personality types. One is
the babbling brook. Everything they see or think or feel,
they share, you know?
S8 (30:18):
Yeah.
S6 (30:18):
And then there's the Dead Sea who receives all these things.
But this is not by nature a talker, you know?
S8 (30:24):
Yeah.
S6 (30:25):
Uh, and I think that the whole, the whole. What's the.
You mentioned this earlier. What is the whole role of
questions in this process?
S9 (30:32):
It's huge. You know.
S3 (30:33):
If we can remain curious about somebody's life, about their story,
and I mean genuinely curious, not trying to interrogate them,
but just curious, you know, inviting them to tell you more.
You know, there's really two kinds of people in the world, Gary.
There are people who walk into a room and say,
here I am, and there are people who walk into
(30:55):
a room and say, there you are. And if you
want strong relationships, you need to shift to. There you are.
Tell me about your vacation. Tell me about your kids.
You know, tell me what you love about your job.
Tell me where you're struggling, you know, and just inviting
them to talk and share their heart with you.
S8 (31:16):
Yeah.
S6 (31:17):
Have you, uh, have you thought about this or seen this? Uh,
because as Christians, we have an interest in sharing the
gospel with other people. You know, I mean, this is
a part of who we are. When you have the
good news, you want to share it. But I think
sometimes that in our evangelistic efforts, we start sharing people,
you know, about Christ and all that, and we don't
(31:39):
even know them and they don't even know us. You
know what I'm saying?
S8 (31:43):
Mhm.
S6 (31:43):
And so getting to know them as a person, you know,
and showing interest in them, and even if they have
beliefs that are far removed from our beliefs, let them
share those beliefs with us. You know, ask questions about it.
It's an interesting thing. When did you come to believe that?
How would this you know, just. And if you show
genuine interest in people, then chances are they're far more
(32:07):
open to to somewhere along the line to hear what
you have to say. You know about spiritual things. Have
you observed that?
S9 (32:14):
Yeah, I absolutely have.
S3 (32:16):
And it reminds me of a story. My husband was
traveling in Australia and he had been on a ministry trip,
and he was headed back to the airport. And he
noticed that his taxi cab driver, he thought he was
from Somalia. And so he he started asking him some questions,
you know, and he was asking him about his faith
(32:36):
and about his family. And, you know, um, the gentleman
was a muslim. And so he began sharing about his faith.
And he, he said, you know, I'm not a muslim.
I haven't done the Hajj yet. And Steve was just,
you know, inviting him to tell him more. And before
Steve got out of the taxicab, he said to this gentleman, hey,
(32:58):
I'm a I'm a Christian and I would love to
know what advice would you give us Christians? And there
was a long pause. And this gentleman said to Steve,
You Christians want to tell us how to think, but
you haven't taken the time to hear us or try
to understand us. And, you know, it was such a
(33:21):
powerful conversation for Steve. And he said, hey, I'm sorry
for that. You know, because your life is sounds really
interesting and I wish we had more time to talk.
And then he got out of the taxicab. But I
think it's a good lesson for us.
S8 (33:36):
You know.
S3 (33:37):
People won't listen to us if they don't know that
we love them and care about them.
S8 (33:41):
Yeah.
S6 (33:42):
Yeah. So true.
S5 (33:43):
You know, the other thing that I thought I was
going to say is you should leave a bigger tip.
S8 (33:49):
And I say that thought that I.
S5 (33:52):
Say that with a smile, Becky. But it's true that
a lot of people, you know, servers, a lot of
my kids are servers. They'll say the people who come
in on Sundays or, you know, they know that they're
Christians because they pray they're the worst tippers. And it's like, no,
we ought to be the best. We ought to be
the most generous people on the planet, you know?
S3 (34:11):
Yeah, I agree with you. And I have heard that
same statistic.
S6 (34:15):
And I think this habit is fine. But there are
people that have a habit of asking the waiter or
the waitress, you know, we're going we're going to have
prayer in just a minute. Is there something we could
pray for you? Well, you know, many times they will
share something. I mean, they'll they'll be very honest about it,
you know? But I guess what you're saying, Chris, is
you pray for them, but you don't leave them a tip,
and they're right.
S8 (34:36):
Right. And so what? Yeah.
S5 (34:38):
What do.
S8 (34:38):
They think as they.
S5 (34:39):
Walk away from that? You know, and I love what
you said about him. And he didn't do this as
an evangelism tool or, you know, he was just interested
in other people. When you pigeonhole people as, okay, oh,
here's my Muslim cab driver, you know, or here's my
server who has a tattoo, and I don't know where
she is spiritually. You know, I just kind of pigeonhole them. No,
(35:02):
you just treat people as people and be interested and
and ask questions and listen. I think that's that leads
to those deeper connections that you're talking about, Becky.
S3 (35:11):
Absolutely, absolutely. You know, everybody out there has a story
and every story is worth hearing. I mean, we follow Jesus,
and that's the way he lived his life.
S6 (35:22):
You know, Becky, and the whole thing of building relationships,
you talk in the book about the fact that in
our culture today, we are so distracted with so many things. Uh,
what are those things that distract us from really having
meaningful relationships?
S3 (35:39):
Yeah, I think, number one, we are living in an
information age and our brains are so overloaded with information,
we we take in reams of information every day, you know,
whether from the media and updates on news reports, whether it's,
you know, uh, things that are happening in our culture.
(36:02):
We have social media. I mean, we're just our brains
have become addicted, really, to a quick fix, especially when
we're scrolling on our phones. You know, a lot of
us get the news on our phones, we stay in
touch with our phones. So we've got this cell phone
thing going on. And, you know, I was thinking, um,
(36:22):
this morning I ran out to run an errand, and
I forgot my cell phone. And I confess, I had, like,
a momentary panic, like.
S8 (36:30):
Oh.
S3 (36:30):
I don't have my cell phone. And then I remembered,
you know, like, when I was raising kids, we didn't
have cell phones, right? Everybody had a landline, and. And
yet we've become addicted to our phones. We email on
our phones, we text on our phones, we scroll social
media on our phones, we scroll the news on our phones.
But all that scrolling is dumbing down our brains and
(36:53):
we are so distracted.
S8 (36:56):
Yeah.
S6 (36:56):
And we when we ignore the people around us.
S8 (37:00):
Yeah.
S3 (37:00):
And it creates a disaster in our in our friendships,
you know? Um, I have to tell you this story
because it's so great. When we were raising kids, you know,
it was during during the Beanie Baby era, you know,
where everybody was addicted to Beanie Babies. So our little
girls wanted Beanie Babies. We were on vacation walking the boardwalk,
and our son was about, I don't know, 12 or
(37:23):
14 at that time. And he was waiting for them
to pick out their Beanie Babies. We were in a
candy kitchen, and there was this suction cup on one
of the plexiglass things, you know, and he was fiddling, fiddling, fiddling,
and all of a sudden he popped that suction cup
and it was like something out of a Lily Havrysh
(37:45):
episode on YouTube. One container, hit another, hit another, hit another.
And I mean Swedish Fish went flying caramel balls. And
I mean, it was. And I just got the giggles,
you know? But my husband offered to pay for everything
in the store, and the lady just told us to
get out. But I will never forget that because even
(38:06):
though it's hilarious, you know, we are so distracted that
it creates disasters in our relationships, you know? And we
miss what people are saying to us and how they're
trying to be heard.
S8 (38:19):
Yeah.
S6 (38:20):
Another thing that you discuss in the book that I
think is really important is this whole idea of hospitality.
What is hospitality and how does that interface with, uh,
sometimes people experiencing loneliness.
S3 (38:34):
So hospitality basically is welcoming others into your home. And
it's a biblical concept. Um, it can be welcoming others
into your friend group, but it can also be welcoming
other people into your home. And I think a lot
of us get stressed out here, you know, because we think, well,
my home doesn't look like Chip and Joanna Gaines home
or Martha Stewart or I can't cook like this person
(38:57):
or that person, but most people really don't care. When
you welcome them into your home, the connection goes deeper.
One of the stories that I like to tell is
of my grandmother. I would spend a week with her
every summer in New York City, and every single afternoon
at 3 p.m. sharp, Aunt Isabel would come over. Now,
(39:19):
Aunt Isabel wasn't related to us. I don't know, we
just all called her that. Um, she was just my
grandmother's friend. Every single afternoon, they would have coffee and
coffee cake together in my grandmother's apartment. And I thought
about our lives today. Who has time, you know, to
have somebody over every day. And yet, when you invite
people into your home, the relationships goes much deeper when
(39:42):
you think about it, Jesus invites us to his table, right?
And he says, all are welcome here. And, and and
he wants us to extend that invitation to others.
S8 (39:55):
Yeah.
S6 (39:56):
You know, another thing that you discuss in the book
that I think is important is the whole matter that
if we're going to have lasting friendships, we have to
not be so thin skinned and get offended if the
person disagrees with us on something, say, say a word
about that.
S3 (40:14):
Yeah, I think this particularly hits those who are listening,
who are women. Some of us have gotten to the
point where we just get really easily offended, and then
we back up from relationships, and as a result of that,
we're lonely. You know somebody who disagrees with you, it
doesn't have to offend you. You can allow other people
(40:37):
to hold their opinions and just love them. Somebody maybe
has to cancel plans with you and change the plans.
That's not because they don't like you or love you.
Their schedule just got in the way. But offer grace
whenever you're tempted to take offense. Remember that when you
take offense, it's like a trap that Satan has for you,
(41:01):
and then you back up from a friendship instead of
taking offense. Offer grace. Offer understanding. The friends that are
the closest to me are the friends that offer understanding.
When my schedule gets wonky, when I have big demands
on me and I want to offer them that grace.
(41:21):
Because that's a beautiful thing in every relationship.
S6 (41:26):
You know, as we come to the end of our
time together, I just want you to touch on this
whole matter that you discussed in the book, also about prayer.
How does that interface with our friendships, and can you
give us some examples of the power of praying with
other people?
S3 (41:43):
Yeah. I love my prayer people. And I think of
my dear friend Judy. It's actually Judy. Dunigan and Judy
and I have been friends for over 30 years. And
when our kids were little, Judy and I started praying
together and we prayed for their spouses. We prayed for
their protection. We prayed for everything, you know. And now
(42:03):
it's many years later, um, and and we still check in.
It's nothing for Judy to text me at 5 a.m.
and say, hey, are you up? Let's pray. Or for
me to text her. You know, and it just the
other day, in fact, I mean, maybe a week ago,
we were on our knees at 5 a.m., her and
her house, me and my house. And we prayed through
(42:23):
all 20 of our combined grandchildren by name. You know,
but the depth of that friendship is beautiful. You know,
we've cried together. We've laughed together. We've prayed for our marriages,
for our men together. We've prayed for our kids and
their spouses. We've prayed for our writing and our speaking,
(42:44):
and the depth of that friendship is so deep because
we could get on our knees together, and you just
can't pray with another person without it going, without the
relationship going deeper. So I like to tell spouses, listen,
if you feel disconnected, get on your knees together and
start praying together and watch what God does.
S6 (43:06):
Great idea. Well, I want to thank you for being
with us today, and also thank you for writing this book.
I think it's going to help anyone, male or female.
And if they're feeling lonely, it's going to give them
ideas on how to interface with other people. And if
they're not feeling lonely, we all encounter people who are lonely,
(43:26):
and if we ask questions of them, we will find
out where they are and we will have an opportunity
to minister to them. So again, thanks for all the
effort and prayer and time that you put into writing
this book and for being with us today.
S3 (43:40):
Thank you for having me. It was a joy.
S5 (43:43):
Well, if this conversation has touched a nerve inside and
you feel a desire for deeper friendships and you don't
know where to start, go to Building relationships and check
out our featured resource, Becky Harling's book, Cultivating Deeper Connections
in a Lonely World. Just go to Building Relationships, and
(44:03):
our summer best of conversations continue in one week when
Rhonda will join us and talk about the Mindful marriage.
Don't miss the encouragement in one week!
S4 (44:14):
A big thank you to our production team, Steve Wick
and Janice backing. Building relationships with Doctor Gary Chapman is
a production of Moody Radio in association with Moody Publishers,
a ministry of Moody Bible Institute. Thanks for listening.
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