April 26, 2025 • 47 mins
Dr. Gary Chapman is known for the 5 Love Languages. He loves connecting couples and singles with the love of God. And he’s not afraid to tackle the real life struggles you’re facing. On this Building Relationships with Dr. Gary Chapman, hear questions about marriage difficulties, family conflict and a lot more. You might hear an answer to something you’re going through—don’t miss April’s Dear Gary—on Building Relationships with Dr. Gary Chapman.
Featured resource: You Get Me: Simple, Romantic Ways to Speak the 5 Love Languages
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Episode Transcript
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S1 (00:00):
I have found that it is very taboo.
S2 (00:04):
I am really struggling with knowing my role. As a child,
I had a hard time figuring out her love language.
S3 (00:11):
How do you get out of a narcissistic relationship that
has a very thick web?
S4 (00:18):
Welcome to building relationships with Doctor Gary Chapman, author of
the New York Times best seller The Five Love Languages.
It's time for our Dear Gary broadcast for the month
of April, featuring your calls and questions for this trusted
author and speaker.
S5 (00:32):
There are love language questions ahead, one I've never heard before.
One caller is at the end of her rope, both
with her marriage and the church. So there's an awful
lot of real issues we're going to deal with straight
ahead on Moody Radio. Our featured resource at Building Relationships
is the book You Get Me. Simple, Romantic Ways to
(00:53):
speak the five Love Languages. You can find out more
at that site. Building relationships. And Gary, when I see
that title, you get me. There's kind of this smile.
There's kind of a twinkle in the eye, and it
reminds me of that. The times when you felt seen
by somebody else. Is that part of the impetus behind
(01:13):
this resource?
S6 (01:15):
Yeah, I think it is. Yeah. It's, uh, actually this
book was actually written by or put together by a
friend of my son's who lives in England, and she's
an artist. And so in addition to giving just lots
and lots of ideas, practical ideas on speaking the love languages,
the various love languages, she has original art in the book.
(01:37):
So I think it's I think it's a, it's it's
a small little book, but it's just practical ideas with,
with art. So I think a lot of our writers
will identify with that.
S5 (01:47):
Yeah. You get me simple romantic ways to speak. The
five love languages. You can find out more at Building Relationships. Okay, Gary,
as we start, I want to read a question for you.
And remember, if you want to ask a question of
Doctor Chapman on the program, not today, but for a future.
Dear Gary, write the number down 1866424. Gary, here's the
(02:10):
question that came in. I've recently read through your books,
Doctor Chapman. One more try and loving your spouse when
you feel like walking away. And I want to ask
a more specific question regarding estranged marriages due to major depression.
In my current situation, I've done what I can to
change my perspective and create healthy patterns in my behaviors.
(02:33):
But due to depression, my spouse has a very different
perspective on our marriage and the work that it would
need to take to create a happy marriage. I would
love to hear more in regards to how to engage
in repair efforts. When one party is willing and the
other party has opposing views to suggested solutions for example,
(02:53):
marriage counseling, individual counseling, seeing a doctor for medical help
and so on. I'm finding it incredibly difficult to know
how to move forward after so many years of attempts
to repair. And facing such a negative environment due to
my spouse's depression. What do you say?
S6 (03:12):
Well, first of all, you have to identify with this writer.
Because when you try and try and try and the
two books he mentioned are practical books that I've written
for individuals who are in marriages where their spouse often
is not willing to go for counseling, not willing to
(03:32):
do other things, and certain things that you can do
that have have at least the potential for changing the environment.
You know, we can't change the other person. I mean,
we've said that for years. You can't make another person
do anything, really. But I do think when we take
a positive approach, for example, we speak their love language
(03:52):
over our extended period of time and we ask them,
what can I do that would make me a better
husband or a better wife? Or what can I do
to help you? Or how can I make your life easier?
You know, we take that approach to them. It does many,
many times strike at the heart of the other person
(04:14):
and causes them to begin to reciprocate and begin to
reach out and want to deal with their own problem.
In this case, depression. Again, it depends on the nature
of the depression and how long it's gone on and
what the source of the depression is. But, you know,
if it's been persistent for many years, there is a
place for pulling together family members that she trusts, in
(04:38):
addition to the husband and sitting down with her and
just having a real conversation about, you know, we love
you and we know that you've suffered from this for
a long time, and we really, really want you to
get help and really try to help her come to
agree to see a physician, or to see a counselor
(04:59):
or someone who can assess, you know, what's going on
with her depression. What type of depression it is and
what might be the possible treatment patterns for that. So
I would suggest that to this husband, if he's not
tried that, get some of her extended family, those that
she would trust, who would join with him in sitting
(05:20):
down and just having a really hard conversation with her.
And I would also reach out to, in the meantime,
to find a doctor or a counselor that you would
feel good about so that when she does agree and
often she will, if there's a little pressure put there
by by extended family growing out of love, she will
(05:41):
respond to that. So there is a time for you
might call that tough love, in which you're kind of
putting a little pressure on her to make a step
that will have some positive impact on her depression. So
that's just the thought that comes to my mind when
you when you've tried the kind of things I've suggested
in the two books you mentioned, I think this might
(06:03):
be another step.
S5 (06:06):
The other thing that and you've talked about this before,
when you see someone, when you love someone who is
depressed and has this kind of serial depression, if you
see that as somebody who needs to snap out of
it or you need to fix or they need to
get a, you know, a fix for their life, it's
one thing if you see them with, you know, if
they had a broken leg and they were limping, you
(06:28):
wouldn't think anything of it. It's like, well, yeah, of
course they're limping. But sometimes we put depression or things
that are going on in the mind in some other category,
and we don't see that as, you know, the person
who is is limping. So rather than gauging the marriage
by whether my spouse is depressed or not, and the
(06:49):
person who wrote this isn't saying that, but I'm just
kind of reading into it. basing my worth as a
a spouse on whether my spouse is depressed or not today.
That doesn't help either one of you, right?
S6 (07:04):
No. That's right. Chris, I think we have to recognize
that again. As I said earlier, we cannot make a
person change. We and we cannot change them. But the
fact that he has read these two books, and he
has been trying to apply some of those things to
his wife and and relate their relationship and still not
having progress, uh, led me to say, you know what I,
(07:26):
what I just suggested?
S5 (07:28):
Well, if you have a question for Doctor Chapman, you
want to follow up on that issue of depression, maybe, uh,
something that's helped in your marriage. 866424. Gary, leave your
message and we'll get to it on a future. Dear Gary,
broadcast one 866 424. Gary, here is a love language
question I've never heard before, and I can't wait to
(07:48):
hear what Gary's going to say.
S7 (07:51):
Good morning, Doctor Chapman. This is Richard from Cincinnati, Ohio.
I listened to you on Wfxg 93.7 FM. I've read
the book and my first love language is giving gifts,
and I like to receive words of affirmation. But I
have a question can the love languages also be used
to identify character defects such as time, character defect, insecurity,
(08:18):
giving gifts, you know, narcissism and other issues like that?
Because personally, I love to give gifts and I have
a tendency to overdo them. So I know I'm egotistical,
I'm arrogant, I'm narcissistic, and a few other things. But
how can the love languages be used to identify character defects?
(08:38):
Thank you.
S6 (08:40):
Well, Chris, I join you. I have never heard that
question before. And I'm not sure I have a good
answer to that question, to be honest with you. Uh,
I hear what he's saying. Does some of these languages,
particularly the ones that you speak, like he's saying he
gives gifts, you know, and overdoes it sometimes, uh, growing
(09:02):
out of, you know, some character aspect in him. But
I don't know, I just I've never I've never even
thought down those lines before. Yes. But, you know, people
have often asked me, now, you know, how do you
how does your love language develop? You know, how do you.
And my answer has always been, I don't know. You know,
whether it's nature or nurture, I know it's there very early.
(09:26):
You can identify it in a child, at least by
the time they're four years old. So it's there very early.
But it's like a lot of other personality traits, you know,
where where do they come from? You know, uh, and
I don't think we've ever been able to quite pinpoint
exactly where they come from. This is a something to
explore that I've never explored before. To be honest with you.
(09:48):
There may be some truth to this, but I just.
I'm not in the point to say yes. You know,
here's the answer to that.
S5 (09:55):
Well, the whole idea behind the love language is to
pay attention. Pay attention to yourself. Pay attention to the
people around you that you love and see what you
pick up. And maybe as you dig down into that
and you pay closer and closer attention, you will see
some of those negative things as well as the the
loving things, you know, the antithesis to those that will
(10:17):
help you in your relationships.
S6 (10:20):
Yeah, I think you're right. You know, he mentioned insecurity,
for example, as perhaps the root of quality time. But
insecurity could also be the root of words, of affirmation.
You know, you feel insecure, but you want words of affirmation.
So I don't know that that there would be a
really clear cut, you know, direct response that would that
(10:44):
would really explain why that particular person has that particular
love language.
S5 (10:50):
Our featured resource is Gary's book written with Jen Mickleborough.
You get me simple, romantic ways to speak the five
love languages. You can find out more at Building Relationships.
Go to Building Relationships. We had a program on making
marriage easier a few weeks ago. Arlene Pelikan wrote an
excellent book and it had that title, Making Marriage Easier
(11:14):
How to Love and Like Your Spouse for life. So
this is a testimonial that I think you'll appreciate. Gary.
S8 (11:22):
Hi. We've been married for 23 years, and I would
say what has made marriage easier for me, which is
actually more recently, is prayer, where I just ask God
to help me, maybe not be upset in a situation.
Help me to show kindness. Um, just help me in
that moment has really been helpful because he can change
(11:43):
my heart on a dime, which really helps me out
a lot. And, um, the other one is just, let's
say he's on the computer and I'm kind of watching
him from the side and or he's driving and just
seeing him when we first met and anticipating us getting
closer and the excitement in our relationship, and that I
could feel the rush right then when I start thinking
(12:04):
of that and seeing him that way and seeing how
amazing and special he is and what a gift he is.
S6 (12:11):
Well, that's a welcomed response. Yes. You know, I think, uh,
often we, uh, have the program, Chris, and we, we
give ideas and share things, and sometimes we don't get
to feedback like that, but that's that's very positive. But
I do think prayer for any of us is certainly
(12:32):
going to be a help, because the Bible says, if
you lack wisdom, God said, ask and I'll give you wisdom,
you know, and all the traits of the spirit, you know,
kindness and love and joy and all those things are
not the results of trying hard. They're the results of
allowing the Spirit of God to sit on the throne
of our lives and guide us. So God's intention is
(12:54):
to make all of us more and more like Christ.
So the more we talk with God about the various
aspects of our marriage and how, uh, he wants to
build these traits into me. When you look at those
fruits of the spirit in Galatians chapter five, uh, man,
you have those nine traits. It's hard for anybody to
(13:17):
resist someone that has those nine traits. So I think
prayer and asking God to control us by his Spirit
and make us more and more like Christ with the
attitudes and behavior of Christ. The more likely that is
to happen, because God wants that more than we do.
S5 (13:34):
Yes. Well, and you don't. You always talk about love
stimulates love. You know, these and the imagination that she used.
She mentioned the city looking at him as he's driving
down the road. They're going together and remembering what it
was like when she was anticipating seeing him and then
getting to spend more time together. That's using your imagination
(13:54):
rather than getting stuck in the. He always takes the
left hand turn up here and he does. Or he
drives too fast or too slow or whatever. I mean,
we can we can have those feelings. But when you
start to use your imagination and recall this, then that
stimulates that inner feeling that you had a long time ago,
doesn't it?
S6 (14:13):
Yeah, absolutely. Chris, I think, uh, and and listen, we
choose our attitude and we choose what we're going to
focus on. And when we bring back the positive memories
of things in the past that they've done or said or,
or whatever, uh, it gives us really that same kind
of sense of joy and satisfaction that we had way
(14:35):
back when we first experienced that.
S5 (14:37):
Yes. So this is a good place for me to
say if you have one of those stories, if there's
something that has made your marriage easier and you want
to talk about that. And and if you have a
problem in your. Marriage or in your relationships, please call
us 866424. Gary. But I would like to hear in
the coming months some really positive stories about here's where
(14:59):
we were and here's where we are now, and here's
where we how we got from there to here. (866)Â 424-4279
is the number. That's our listener line. Just leave your
question or your comment or your story. We'd love to
hear from you. 1-866-424-4279 now here's a daughter who is
(15:22):
concerned about her mom.
S9 (15:25):
Hi, Gary. I am the eldest of four children between
my parents. I'm 32 and the youngest is 25. My
parents have been married about 33, 34, 35 years this year.
Over the last couple of years, I have begun to
notice a lot of challenges that my mom has that
(15:46):
I'm coming to understand as being rooted in some pretty
awful childhood trauma and things that I just dismissed as
a kid, of her being a little odd and different.
I'm now noticing may have just been heard struggling to
accept and love herself over the years, and recently I
learned that she kind of gave my dad an ultimatum
(16:06):
that if he didn't change within a year, that she
wants a divorce. And my parents are Christians. They laid
that foundation for us. But I am really struggling with
knowing my role as a child. I also work in
the mental health field, and I am the only one
in my family who is a therapist and sees things
(16:28):
from that angle. I think my siblings and I have
perhaps taken on a large emotional role for our mom,
and I'm realizing that she has not ever really done
the work to heal herself. And I'm fearful that this
decision that she's making from being so unhappy in her marriage.
(16:51):
Even if things were improved, she might not be able
to receive it or to even be happy whether they
go separate ways or they're together. My siblings and I
are really trying to discern, is it our place to
talk to our parents about this? Is it our place
to suggest our mom get counseling? How do we love
(17:12):
her but also navigate creating distance and boundaries? Because unfortunately,
there's going to be a lot of financial repercussions and
housing stuff that is really disruptive if they move forward
with this. Um, so any guidance on how to not
fall into a codependent role? Um, loving and honoring our parents? Well, um,
(17:36):
is greatly welcomed. Thank you.
S6 (17:39):
Well, I can identify with this caller because I think
there are many adult children who have concerns about their parents. Well,
the fact that the caller is a therapist indicates that
she realizes that if a person is suffering from trauma,
past trauma that's never been dealt with, they will make
(17:59):
poor decisions. And when her mother brings up the idea
that she's thinking about divorce. Uh, yes. I do think that, uh,
adult children, uh, have the privilege and the opportunity to
move in and seek to communicate that to their mother,
and especially her being a therapist, because she knows that
(18:19):
there is help if people will deal with past trauma.
So I would say yes. Not trying to control her,
but trying to help her understand. You know, mom, there
are people that can help you with what you're going through. And,
you know, I really realize and just just talk to her, like.
Like you would talk to one of your counselors, and, uh,
(18:40):
we don't know whether her mother would respond, and she
can't make her mother do that. But I do think
it would be worthwhile for her to reach out and
have a really serious talk with her mother about this
whole issue.
S5 (18:54):
Part of the struggle is our caller knows so much
about what is going on. But, you know, the light
bulb has come on. It's like now looking back, the
pieces are fitting together. So she is kind of figuring
this out about her mom. And I wonder if her
dad is also he's been in the marriage for so
many years that, you know, he may not see everything
(19:18):
that she is seeing in a conversation with her. The
therapist with her dad might help as well, don't you think?
S6 (19:25):
Yeah, I think, I think so. And really, even some
of the other family members could get involved, for that matter.
And she's right in one of the things she said,
that even if her mother goes through divorce, that's not
going to help her problem. It's probably it's going to
compound her problem. If she's suffering from past trauma. Uh,
simply getting away from her husband is not going to
give her a wonderful life. So. Yeah. Yeah, I think definitely, uh,
(19:50):
family members need to, uh, have conversations and just see
what they can do to try to help her understand
that there's help.
S5 (19:58):
Well, I love the care and concern of the daughter
for the mom. And maybe you have a similar question
or something that's going on in your family system. You
want to talk with Doctor Chapman about 866424. Gary is
our number. We had a guest recently who talked about
the power of the love languages in the context of
the local church, and that conversation sparked this caller.
S10 (20:21):
Hi Gary, I am a first time caller and I
was listening to the pastor ask about a love language
for the church family, and I kind of agree with
him that church is an interesting family with interesting problems.
We are a family with adults behaving like children with
(20:46):
different interactions. I think it would be very helpful. So
that is my input as a member of a church,
a small church. So I thank you very much. That's
my input.
S6 (21:01):
Well I appreciate that input. You know, we wrote a
book called The Five Languages of Appreciation in the workplace,
in which we actually took the love languages to work
in work relationships, because whether it's work relationships or church relationships, uh,
everybody has the need to feel loved by the significant
(21:22):
people in their lives. And in a church, there are
people that are very significant in our lives. That's what
the church is all about. Uh, another factor is in
that book on, uh, appreciation in the workplace, we deal
with volunteers Errors and how this applies with volunteers. We
discovered that 50% of the adults in this country volunteer
(21:47):
somewhere every year, and many of those we know are
in the church. In fact, the church would not operate
if there were not several volunteers in any church. But
why they volunteer and why they stay in that volunteer
position is very different. They volunteer because they want to
make a difference in the world. As Christians, we want
(22:10):
to have an impact for people, for God. The reason
they stay in that particular position is because they feel appreciated.
If they don't feel appreciated, then they go volunteer somewhere else.
So that has tremendous implications for the church. So yeah,
I think I don't know that I'd want to write
a book on that. Five love languages at church. But
(22:33):
I do think it applies in church church relationships. And
I appreciate this call.
S5 (22:38):
And a lot of people are are struggling with their
church relationship or what the church has, what they thought
the church was going to be like and what it
has become. Church hurt is and we've talked about that
here on the program with several guests. What do you
say to the person who's listening today and who says
that every time I've tried, you know, whether it's a
(23:01):
small group or a church setting, I feel like I'm
in the outside looking in. Is there a as a pastor,
former pastor now you've retired. Is there something that that
you could say to that person?
S6 (23:15):
I would say, don't give up. Listen, there are churches. Yes,
that are very, very difficult. All churches have people who
are difficult. Maybe all is too much, but most churches
have people who are difficult for whatever reason. But we
need to have in the church more teaching on how
to solve conflicts without arguing. How do we work through
(23:38):
our differences and still have unity? Because the Bible talks
a great deal about unity in the church, and many
churches don't have that kind of unity. And I think
it's because we are individuals and we have different ideas,
and some of us have never learned how to, first
of all, respect other people's ideas. You don't have to
(23:59):
agree with them, but you can respect them as a
human that they have a different idea than you do
on this particular issue. And allowing and working together as
a team, even though we have differences. That's the key.
The churches that thrive are those that are willing to
accept differences of opinion, so long as they don't disagree
with the scriptures, of course. Uh, and even then, if
(24:22):
they disagree with the scriptures, that doesn't mean we're not
going to love them. You know, Jesus loved us while
we were unlovely. So most churches could use a little
help along those lines. So and the five love languages
and understanding. That could be again a very positive help
in terms of relationships within the church.
S4 (24:46):
This is the podcast Building relationships with Doctor Gary Chapman.
He's the author of the New York Times best seller
The Five Love Languages. If you go to five Love
Languages comm, you can find out more about that concept.
You can also take a free assessment of your love
language and see our featured resource today. The book You
Get Me Simple Romantic Ways to speak the five love languages.
(25:08):
Just go to five love languages. Comm.
S5 (25:13):
Gary. We hear a lot of calls from people who
are in desperate situations. We're hearing those calls today, but
our next caller is kind of giving a report about
a situation in her family that I think might help
somebody who's going through something similar. Here we go.
S11 (25:29):
I just wanted to give an update for the rest
of the story of what I shared yesterday about my granddaughter.
We told her actually that it wasn't working for us,
and it definitely wasn't working for her, and that we
would give her a 60 day notice that she would
need to find another place to live. And we told
(25:50):
her we'd be praying for her and that we'd loved
her dearly. I just want to say that from the
day she moved out until today, which was over two
years ago, she has been so respectful. We have had
a good relationship. Totally turn around. She started adulting in
such a good way. So I just wanted to let
(26:11):
people know that it really is important to let God
transform us.
S5 (26:19):
And that's where her call cut off right there. But
I'm going to finish this like God transformed that relationship
in his time, in his way. Uh, in in love. Uh,
so that's her report. What do you say, Gary?
S6 (26:33):
Well, I think that's a positive report. And I certainly
would affirm that, you know, I rereleased a book that
I'd written a number of years ago, just recently. The
new title is Your New Life with your adult child,
in this case, your adult grand grandchild. But there is
a place, yes, I deal with that whole issue of
children moving back in with their parents, or sometimes, as
(26:55):
in this case, moving back in with grandparents. And things
are not going in a positive way because they're not
obeying the guidelines and the rules that we set down.
And we should always have guidelines. So there is a
place for kind of hard love. You know, we love you, honey.
It's just not working for us and it's not working
for you. So we're going to ask you to move out.
(27:16):
We're going to give you time to find a place.
And but we love you very much, and we certainly
want to have a relationship with you. And in this case, obviously,
it's been very, very positive. So I think if we
recognize that we certainly love our adult children and we
want to see them prosper in life. In today's world,
it's not unusual that they're going to come back home
(27:37):
for a while, or maybe move in with a grandparent
for a while. And let's face it, there are a
number of grandparents who are raising their grandchildren because the
parents of that grandchild are either in jail or they're
on drugs or are deceased. So there are a number
of grandparents who are now trying to care for adult children,
(27:58):
and often they run into similar situations.
S5 (28:01):
Well, I wanted you to hear that call. And then
right after this grandmother talking about her granddaughter. I wanted
you to hear this next caller, who I believe left
two messages. And in the first one she said she
was trying not to cry as she asked the question,
so she called back again. This is her deep concern.
S12 (28:24):
Hi Gary. I am trying to reach out about my daughter. Order. Um,
and I've had a hard time figuring out her love language,
and I'm been thinking about this for 14 years now, and, uh,
she is doing with, I think, a lot of anger
and unresolved pain. And I just don't know how to
(28:45):
connect with her and how to, uh, have an impact
in her life. And that's why I was calling.
S6 (28:52):
Well, I think any mother who has for 14 years
been trying to figure out her daughter's love language would
be frustrated if she hasn't determined that. And obviously, seeing
the daughter filled with a lot of anger and other negative,
you know, responses, I would say if she's still living
in the home, I would encourage you to say to
(29:16):
the daughter, in your own words, of course, you know, honey,
I love you very much, and I think you love
me even though sometimes obviously, you know, you get very
angry with me, but I would like for both of
us to try to learn how to talk to each
other and how to treat each other in a more
loving and kind way. Would you be willing to go
(29:40):
with me to a Christian counselor who can help both
of us try to understand each other? Because I know
that obviously you're upset a lot of the time, and
I know that I get hurt and sometimes I raise
my voice to you, but I really love you very,
very much. That would be one approach. There's another approach,
(30:02):
and that would be to tell her, you know, honey,
I love you very much, but I read a book
about love languages, and what makes one person feel loved
doesn't make another person feel loved. And I wonder if
you would take this quiz. It's a very it's a
free quiz online and it's for single adults. And it
would it would help me understand you better to know
(30:24):
how to express my love to you. Because I know
sometimes you don't feel loved by me. So it only
takes you 15 minutes or so. Would you be willing
to do that? That might be an easy starting place.
Or give her the book The Five Love Languages Singles Edition.
Let her read that book herself. And to say this
(30:44):
book has helped a lot of singles understand themselves and
understand their parents. So. And maybe if she read it,
chances are then she would definitely want to take the quiz.
That would be my approach. Uh, first of all, is
probably the book or the quiz. And then a little later,
perhaps if things do not begin to get better, uh,
(31:05):
suggest that both of you go for counseling.
S5 (31:09):
The the thing that I hear in her voice and
then in her first call is this, uh, angst and
and and struggle. And I wonder if there's something in
the mom who is looking at her daughter and her
anger and maybe some trauma that her daughter's been through,
and she feels responsible for it. And it's my daughter,
(31:29):
you know. My daughter is struggling because of maybe decisions
I've made or I'm at fault here. And that may
not be the truth at all. What do you say
about that?
S6 (31:39):
Well, that's certainly a possibility, Chris. And the only way
I know you would find that out is to is
to have an honest talk with her. And certainly a
counselor would help in that situation, because the counselor would
help the mother understand the daughter and help the daughter
understand the mother. Sometimes a third party is really necessary,
(32:01):
especially if it's a very strained relationship.
S5 (32:04):
Yeah. And if the daughter says, no, I don't want
anything to do with the counselor. Uh, I think you'd
say to mom. Well, you go then, right?
S6 (32:11):
Yeah. Absolutely, absolutely. Let the counselor help you think through
the situation as to what might be a positive step
you could take.
S5 (32:19):
Hmm. Maybe you've been through this situation with your own
daughter or son or grandson. Granddaughter? And you want to
tell us your story about how this all worked out
and what you did. Your story might help somebody else.
Here's the number 86642 for Gary. That's our listener line call.
Leave your message. 1-866-424-4279. You're listening to building relationships with
(32:44):
Doctor Gary Chapman. Our next caller has a brief question
that I'm sure has a lot of struggle behind it.
Here's our next caller.
S13 (32:54):
Hi, Gary, was wondering if you could answer a great question.
How do you get out of a narcissistic relationship that
has a very thick web? Thanks.
S6 (33:07):
Well, Chris, you know, it all depends on what the
relationship is. If it's a work relationship, you know there's
always other jobs. If it's a marriage, then that's that's
much more difficult because I don't. I don't think we
ought to leave somebody in a marriage just because they're narcissistic.
(33:30):
I do think, however, we have to have honest truth
talk with each other in a healthy marriage. And so
I think to say to that person, if it's a marriage,
to say to them, I love you very much, but
I think you know that many, many times I do
not feel loved by you. And I feel like often
(33:51):
you try to control me and that you are always
right and I'm always wrong. And I just wish we
could find someone to help us. Help you understand me
and me understand you. You know? And just challenge them
to go for counseling. They may or may not be
willing to, but the very fact that you suggested that
(34:12):
and told them that you wanted to learn how to
understand them better and them to understand you better, is
at least the first step. Because even if they reject
it originally, they might be open on down the road
a ways. So I think we have we have to
take a step. We cannot allow someone with that type
(34:33):
of personality to control us and make our lives miserable,
but it has to be done in love. If it's
if it's just out of anger toward them because of
the way they've treated you, and so you're criticizing them.
You're yelling at them, you're screaming at them and all
that sort of thing. Uh, you're making the situation worse
(34:53):
because anger and anger, you know, it just explodes. So
I would suggest you have to learn to get control
of your own anger if you're going to help anyone
with a narcissistic personality.
S5 (35:05):
And for those who don't know, and you've answered this
question before, but narcissism. How do what does it look like, say,
in a marriage?
S6 (35:13):
Well, it's a very controlling person. You know, they they
have all the ideas they make all the plans. They
tell you what you're going to do. Just overbearing in
every situation and put down your ideas. Typically, they're always
right and you're always wrong, and it's hard to live
with that kind of personality.
S5 (35:32):
Yeah, but you're saying there is still hope for a
person who's married to a narcissist?
S6 (35:40):
Yes, but I think they have to take action. They
can't simply just sit there and let it happen. They
have to share in a kind way. You see, typically
what we do in a situation like that is we're
so hurt that we lash out in anger at them,
and we say hateful words and yell and scream at them,
and that just pushes them away and makes the barrier
(36:02):
worse between the two of us. But in a kind way,
to express to them your concern and the fact that
you cannot go on like this. Something has to happen here.
And when they realize how serious it is, often they
themselves will sometimes be open to go for counseling.
S5 (36:21):
Gary, this will be our final question of the hour
and it's a little longer. But there is so much
to the struggle that our caller is describing. I wanted
you to hear as much as we could air today.
Here's what she had to say.
S1 (36:35):
Hi Gary would love an answer to this, but I
have found that it is very taboo. Long story short,
I had a compulsive lying type of sex addiction issue
that apparently is rampant in the church but covered up
(36:56):
a lot. I am still in that relationship, but I
have had people, including my own self, know that I
am not my normal self. We have tried for 3
to 4 years between counseling. You name it, we did
it the deliverance at church and every time there was
(37:19):
all this extreme counseling and praying and hitting with Bibles
and rebuking and just I'm off that train now. Unfortunately,
it has turned me off of Christianity. I had never
been with someone who, you know, prayed and, you know,
made it public to be in the Bible and always
(37:41):
tell me God would fix everything. So I don't know
what you do with that. Do I just be grateful
that I'm not a raging lunatic and I'm not a
suicidal mess anymore? I'm just very blah. I'm not exactly
full of joy. So when there could be no more
(38:02):
going wrong, he went to in treatment. And then there
was an incident there that almost occurred that told me
we have a real problem. We even did ketamine. I mean,
I feel like I've had some friends turn against because
they feel that that this has just gone so far.
I don't know if I'm being lazy, not getting out.
(38:22):
I don't know if I'm doing the godly thing by
just hanging on because I'm kind of stuck in the marriage.
I want to know why the church doesn't deal with
this more. Why betrayal and sex addiction? The amount of
shame and support that I didn't get from the church
(38:44):
is what has turned me away. I don't even go
to church now, and I understand this might be too
much to deal with. Hopefully you can decipher what I'm
trying to ask. I kind of don't know. Is this
is this it for me for the rest of my
life at 55, or do I just do the best
I can? I still, just to this day, can't have anyone,
(39:07):
or at least a Christian, fully answer what in the
world to do? Why we immersed ourselves even more. It
got worse. I don't know if anyone else is in
a situation and stuck or suffering, or it's a very
touchy subject to ever discuss with anyone, let alone any
(39:31):
other kind of believers or Christians. Okay, so thanks so much.
S6 (39:38):
Well, I think when a person has struggled with a
spouse who has a compulsive what she called a compulsive
sex issue, I'm guessing pornography and probably also adultery involved
with someone else. And she turned to the church for help,
and they prayed with her and they told her God
would deliver and all this sort of thing, and she
(39:58):
kind of got turned off to the church. And I
can identify with that. I think that number of people
have had that kind of experience. But let me let
me say this. First of all, it's one thing to
be upset or discouraged by the way a church responds
to these kind of issues. It's another thing to turn
away from God. Here's what I mean by that. Churches
(40:22):
are composed of people. People are humans. Even Christians are humans.
And sometimes the way certain churches respond in different things
and and what they do in trying to help is
not helpful. And so sometimes a person just feels put
off by the whole thing. But I would say don't
give up on God just because the experience in one
(40:46):
church has been a poor experience. I would say, first
of all, God wants to help you walk through this situation.
And secondly, there are Christians who are different from those
that you've experienced who are more open to logical thought
and seeking help other than just saying God's going to deliver,
(41:07):
you know, God's going to deliver that sort of thing.
So certainly God wants people to have a positive life,
and it's why he's laid down principles for us. When
God says, don't do something, it's because he loves us
and he wants us to have the best possible life.
And when someone violates those principles in terms of sexuality
(41:28):
or any other area of life, they're not going to
have the life that God wants them to have. When
you're living with someone like that, uh, obviously it's very,
very painful for you. If a person to whom you
are married persists in pornography and adultery, that is physical
involvement with someone else, and you've been to counseling, but
(41:51):
there's been no change in behavior. There is a place
for tough love. And tough love says, I love you
too much to sit here and do nothing while you
violate the clear teachings of the Bible, and you bring
great pain to me. So if this is your lifestyle
(42:12):
and this is what you intend to do, I want
you to know I am not simply going to be
here and do nothing. I know we've tried counseling, but
you decided to continue in this lifestyle. I love you
too much to continue. I am willing to go again
for counseling with you. I am willing to do anything
I can to help you, but I am not simply
(42:35):
going to sit here and do nothing. You see, I
love you too much to do nothing. So I'm going
to move out. I'm not going to divorce you, but
I'm going to move out. And if you decide that
you want to be delivered from this, you can be delivered.
You have to make the hard decision. God will help
(42:55):
you if you run to God. He will help you
in this area. But you have to agree to cooperate
with God. And I'm not going to simply accept it
as normal behavior, whatever words you use. But there is
a place for that kind of tough love, and many
times a person who has not changed will at that
point be open to real change. But if not, then again,
(43:18):
we can't make our spouse stop anything. Uh. So there
is a juncture at which we just have to realize
we're not helping them by, as it were, affirming what
they're doing by simply sitting there and doing nothing. Yeah.
So it's hard. It's hard. The difference between tough love
and tender love is very hard. But tender love should
(43:40):
always go before tough love. So if you love him
in the right, his right love language, and you seek
to minister to him and serve him in other ways
as a faithful wife, and he still persists in this behavior,
then is the time for tough love. Often what we
do is criticize the person, put them down, express anger
(44:04):
and frustration with them, and then decide that we're going
to take a step to move out. And they say
to themselves, good riddance. I'm tired of hearing all your
yelling and screaming at me anyway. But if we have
given them soft love, tender love over a period of time,
they're far more likely. When you do tough love to
(44:26):
respond in a positive way.
S5 (44:28):
You know what strikes me, Gary, is when she talked about,
it's almost like she's living in black and white when
the world is color. She's just kind of feeling blah
and stunted. And that's the effects of of living with somebody,
you know, who's who's making these choices. But she also said,
you know, here she is in her 50s, this this
(44:49):
shouldn't I've invested my life in this relationship. This shouldn't
be this way. It's not supposed to be this way.
And is this it? Is this all I can hope
for moving forward? And I want to say, you know,
I don't know her, and you don't either, but I
want to say no, it's this is not it. Because
because of the the love of God and the care
of God for you, your life does not have to
(45:12):
be held back by his choices. Does that make sense?
S6 (45:17):
Yeah. I think you know God has a plan for
her life if she's a believer in Christ already, God
has a plan for her life. If she's never accepted Christ.
God loves her. He wants her to become his child,
and then he wants to use her in a positive way.
So she has a life to live. And running away
from God is not the answer. Running to God is
(45:40):
the answer. Because if she runs to God and she's
totally committed to God and walking with him, and then
finding a church where people are loving and kind and
tender and caring, then she will have a life and
God will use her life, no question about that. Uh,
whether her husband turns around or whether he doesn't turn around.
S5 (45:59):
Well, before we conclude, I want you to to call Gary,
leave a message, maybe in response to the caller we
just heard 1866424. Gary, if you have a comment or
maybe you have a question about your own relationships. (866)Â 424-4279.
We'd love to hear from you. You can also find
simple ways to strengthen your relationships online at Building Relationships.
(46:25):
See our featured resource by Doctor Chapman and Jen Mickleborough.
You get me simple, romantic ways to speak five love languages.
Just go to building relationships.
S6 (46:36):
And next week, if you're a mom who feels overwhelmed
with anger, don't miss the conversation in one week.
S4 (46:44):
We hope you'll join us then. A big thank you
to our production team, Steve Wick and Janice backing. Building
relationships with Doctor Gary Chapman is a production of Moody
Radio in association with Moody Publishers, a ministry of Moody
Bible Institute. Thanks for listening.
I have found that it is very taboo.
S2 (00:04):
I am really struggling with knowing my role. As a child,
I had a hard time figuring out her love language.
S3 (00:11):
How do you get out of a narcissistic relationship that
has a very thick web?
S4 (00:18):
Welcome to building relationships with Doctor Gary Chapman, author of
the New York Times best seller The Five Love Languages.
It's time for our Dear Gary broadcast for the month
of April, featuring your calls and questions for this trusted
author and speaker.
S5 (00:32):
There are love language questions ahead, one I've never heard before.
One caller is at the end of her rope, both
with her marriage and the church. So there's an awful
lot of real issues we're going to deal with straight
ahead on Moody Radio. Our featured resource at Building Relationships
is the book You Get Me. Simple, Romantic Ways to
(00:53):
speak the five Love Languages. You can find out more
at that site. Building relationships. And Gary, when I see
that title, you get me. There's kind of this smile.
There's kind of a twinkle in the eye, and it
reminds me of that. The times when you felt seen
by somebody else. Is that part of the impetus behind
(01:13):
this resource?
S6 (01:15):
Yeah, I think it is. Yeah. It's, uh, actually this
book was actually written by or put together by a
friend of my son's who lives in England, and she's
an artist. And so in addition to giving just lots
and lots of ideas, practical ideas on speaking the love languages,
the various love languages, she has original art in the book.
(01:37):
So I think it's I think it's a, it's it's
a small little book, but it's just practical ideas with,
with art. So I think a lot of our writers
will identify with that.
S5 (01:47):
Yeah. You get me simple romantic ways to speak. The
five love languages. You can find out more at Building Relationships. Okay, Gary,
as we start, I want to read a question for you.
And remember, if you want to ask a question of
Doctor Chapman on the program, not today, but for a future.
Dear Gary, write the number down 1866424. Gary, here's the
(02:10):
question that came in. I've recently read through your books,
Doctor Chapman. One more try and loving your spouse when
you feel like walking away. And I want to ask
a more specific question regarding estranged marriages due to major depression.
In my current situation, I've done what I can to
change my perspective and create healthy patterns in my behaviors.
(02:33):
But due to depression, my spouse has a very different
perspective on our marriage and the work that it would
need to take to create a happy marriage. I would
love to hear more in regards to how to engage
in repair efforts. When one party is willing and the
other party has opposing views to suggested solutions for example,
(02:53):
marriage counseling, individual counseling, seeing a doctor for medical help
and so on. I'm finding it incredibly difficult to know
how to move forward after so many years of attempts
to repair. And facing such a negative environment due to
my spouse's depression. What do you say?
S6 (03:12):
Well, first of all, you have to identify with this writer.
Because when you try and try and try and the
two books he mentioned are practical books that I've written
for individuals who are in marriages where their spouse often
is not willing to go for counseling, not willing to
(03:32):
do other things, and certain things that you can do
that have have at least the potential for changing the environment.
You know, we can't change the other person. I mean,
we've said that for years. You can't make another person
do anything, really. But I do think when we take
a positive approach, for example, we speak their love language
(03:52):
over our extended period of time and we ask them,
what can I do that would make me a better
husband or a better wife? Or what can I do
to help you? Or how can I make your life easier?
You know, we take that approach to them. It does many,
many times strike at the heart of the other person
(04:14):
and causes them to begin to reciprocate and begin to
reach out and want to deal with their own problem.
In this case, depression. Again, it depends on the nature
of the depression and how long it's gone on and
what the source of the depression is. But, you know,
if it's been persistent for many years, there is a
place for pulling together family members that she trusts, in
(04:38):
addition to the husband and sitting down with her and
just having a real conversation about, you know, we love
you and we know that you've suffered from this for
a long time, and we really, really want you to
get help and really try to help her come to
agree to see a physician, or to see a counselor
(04:59):
or someone who can assess, you know, what's going on
with her depression. What type of depression it is and
what might be the possible treatment patterns for that. So
I would suggest that to this husband, if he's not
tried that, get some of her extended family, those that
she would trust, who would join with him in sitting
(05:20):
down and just having a really hard conversation with her.
And I would also reach out to, in the meantime,
to find a doctor or a counselor that you would
feel good about so that when she does agree and
often she will, if there's a little pressure put there
by by extended family growing out of love, she will
(05:41):
respond to that. So there is a time for you
might call that tough love, in which you're kind of
putting a little pressure on her to make a step
that will have some positive impact on her depression. So
that's just the thought that comes to my mind when
you when you've tried the kind of things I've suggested
in the two books you mentioned, I think this might
(06:03):
be another step.
S5 (06:06):
The other thing that and you've talked about this before,
when you see someone, when you love someone who is
depressed and has this kind of serial depression, if you
see that as somebody who needs to snap out of
it or you need to fix or they need to
get a, you know, a fix for their life, it's
one thing if you see them with, you know, if
they had a broken leg and they were limping, you
(06:28):
wouldn't think anything of it. It's like, well, yeah, of
course they're limping. But sometimes we put depression or things
that are going on in the mind in some other category,
and we don't see that as, you know, the person
who is is limping. So rather than gauging the marriage
by whether my spouse is depressed or not, and the
(06:49):
person who wrote this isn't saying that, but I'm just
kind of reading into it. basing my worth as a
a spouse on whether my spouse is depressed or not today.
That doesn't help either one of you, right?
S6 (07:04):
No. That's right. Chris, I think we have to recognize
that again. As I said earlier, we cannot make a
person change. We and we cannot change them. But the
fact that he has read these two books, and he
has been trying to apply some of those things to
his wife and and relate their relationship and still not
having progress, uh, led me to say, you know what I,
(07:26):
what I just suggested?
S5 (07:28):
Well, if you have a question for Doctor Chapman, you
want to follow up on that issue of depression, maybe, uh,
something that's helped in your marriage. 866424. Gary, leave your
message and we'll get to it on a future. Dear Gary,
broadcast one 866 424. Gary, here is a love language
question I've never heard before, and I can't wait to
(07:48):
hear what Gary's going to say.
S7 (07:51):
Good morning, Doctor Chapman. This is Richard from Cincinnati, Ohio.
I listened to you on Wfxg 93.7 FM. I've read
the book and my first love language is giving gifts,
and I like to receive words of affirmation. But I
have a question can the love languages also be used
to identify character defects such as time, character defect, insecurity,
(08:18):
giving gifts, you know, narcissism and other issues like that?
Because personally, I love to give gifts and I have
a tendency to overdo them. So I know I'm egotistical,
I'm arrogant, I'm narcissistic, and a few other things. But
how can the love languages be used to identify character defects?
(08:38):
Thank you.
S6 (08:40):
Well, Chris, I join you. I have never heard that
question before. And I'm not sure I have a good
answer to that question, to be honest with you. Uh,
I hear what he's saying. Does some of these languages,
particularly the ones that you speak, like he's saying he
gives gifts, you know, and overdoes it sometimes, uh, growing
(09:02):
out of, you know, some character aspect in him. But
I don't know, I just I've never I've never even
thought down those lines before. Yes. But, you know, people
have often asked me, now, you know, how do you
how does your love language develop? You know, how do you.
And my answer has always been, I don't know. You know,
whether it's nature or nurture, I know it's there very early.
(09:26):
You can identify it in a child, at least by
the time they're four years old. So it's there very early.
But it's like a lot of other personality traits, you know,
where where do they come from? You know, uh, and
I don't think we've ever been able to quite pinpoint
exactly where they come from. This is a something to
explore that I've never explored before. To be honest with you.
(09:48):
There may be some truth to this, but I just.
I'm not in the point to say yes. You know,
here's the answer to that.
S5 (09:55):
Well, the whole idea behind the love language is to
pay attention. Pay attention to yourself. Pay attention to the
people around you that you love and see what you
pick up. And maybe as you dig down into that
and you pay closer and closer attention, you will see
some of those negative things as well as the the
loving things, you know, the antithesis to those that will
(10:17):
help you in your relationships.
S6 (10:20):
Yeah, I think you're right. You know, he mentioned insecurity,
for example, as perhaps the root of quality time. But
insecurity could also be the root of words, of affirmation.
You know, you feel insecure, but you want words of affirmation.
So I don't know that that there would be a
really clear cut, you know, direct response that would that
(10:44):
would really explain why that particular person has that particular
love language.
S5 (10:50):
Our featured resource is Gary's book written with Jen Mickleborough.
You get me simple, romantic ways to speak the five
love languages. You can find out more at Building Relationships.
Go to Building Relationships. We had a program on making
marriage easier a few weeks ago. Arlene Pelikan wrote an
excellent book and it had that title, Making Marriage Easier
(11:14):
How to Love and Like Your Spouse for life. So
this is a testimonial that I think you'll appreciate. Gary.
S8 (11:22):
Hi. We've been married for 23 years, and I would
say what has made marriage easier for me, which is
actually more recently, is prayer, where I just ask God
to help me, maybe not be upset in a situation.
Help me to show kindness. Um, just help me in
that moment has really been helpful because he can change
(11:43):
my heart on a dime, which really helps me out
a lot. And, um, the other one is just, let's
say he's on the computer and I'm kind of watching
him from the side and or he's driving and just
seeing him when we first met and anticipating us getting
closer and the excitement in our relationship, and that I
could feel the rush right then when I start thinking
(12:04):
of that and seeing him that way and seeing how
amazing and special he is and what a gift he is.
S6 (12:11):
Well, that's a welcomed response. Yes. You know, I think, uh,
often we, uh, have the program, Chris, and we, we
give ideas and share things, and sometimes we don't get
to feedback like that, but that's that's very positive. But
I do think prayer for any of us is certainly
(12:32):
going to be a help, because the Bible says, if
you lack wisdom, God said, ask and I'll give you wisdom,
you know, and all the traits of the spirit, you know,
kindness and love and joy and all those things are
not the results of trying hard. They're the results of
allowing the Spirit of God to sit on the throne
of our lives and guide us. So God's intention is
(12:54):
to make all of us more and more like Christ.
So the more we talk with God about the various
aspects of our marriage and how, uh, he wants to
build these traits into me. When you look at those
fruits of the spirit in Galatians chapter five, uh, man,
you have those nine traits. It's hard for anybody to
(13:17):
resist someone that has those nine traits. So I think
prayer and asking God to control us by his Spirit
and make us more and more like Christ with the
attitudes and behavior of Christ. The more likely that is
to happen, because God wants that more than we do.
S5 (13:34):
Yes. Well, and you don't. You always talk about love
stimulates love. You know, these and the imagination that she used.
She mentioned the city looking at him as he's driving
down the road. They're going together and remembering what it
was like when she was anticipating seeing him and then
getting to spend more time together. That's using your imagination
(13:54):
rather than getting stuck in the. He always takes the
left hand turn up here and he does. Or he
drives too fast or too slow or whatever. I mean,
we can we can have those feelings. But when you
start to use your imagination and recall this, then that
stimulates that inner feeling that you had a long time ago,
doesn't it?
S6 (14:13):
Yeah, absolutely. Chris, I think, uh, and and listen, we
choose our attitude and we choose what we're going to
focus on. And when we bring back the positive memories
of things in the past that they've done or said or,
or whatever, uh, it gives us really that same kind
of sense of joy and satisfaction that we had way
(14:35):
back when we first experienced that.
S5 (14:37):
Yes. So this is a good place for me to
say if you have one of those stories, if there's
something that has made your marriage easier and you want
to talk about that. And and if you have a
problem in your. Marriage or in your relationships, please call
us 866424. Gary. But I would like to hear in
the coming months some really positive stories about here's where
(14:59):
we were and here's where we are now, and here's
where we how we got from there to here. (866)Â 424-4279
is the number. That's our listener line. Just leave your
question or your comment or your story. We'd love to
hear from you. 1-866-424-4279 now here's a daughter who is
(15:22):
concerned about her mom.
S9 (15:25):
Hi, Gary. I am the eldest of four children between
my parents. I'm 32 and the youngest is 25. My
parents have been married about 33, 34, 35 years this year.
Over the last couple of years, I have begun to
notice a lot of challenges that my mom has that
(15:46):
I'm coming to understand as being rooted in some pretty
awful childhood trauma and things that I just dismissed as
a kid, of her being a little odd and different.
I'm now noticing may have just been heard struggling to
accept and love herself over the years, and recently I
learned that she kind of gave my dad an ultimatum
(16:06):
that if he didn't change within a year, that she
wants a divorce. And my parents are Christians. They laid
that foundation for us. But I am really struggling with
knowing my role as a child. I also work in
the mental health field, and I am the only one
in my family who is a therapist and sees things
(16:28):
from that angle. I think my siblings and I have
perhaps taken on a large emotional role for our mom,
and I'm realizing that she has not ever really done
the work to heal herself. And I'm fearful that this
decision that she's making from being so unhappy in her marriage.
(16:51):
Even if things were improved, she might not be able
to receive it or to even be happy whether they
go separate ways or they're together. My siblings and I
are really trying to discern, is it our place to
talk to our parents about this? Is it our place
to suggest our mom get counseling? How do we love
(17:12):
her but also navigate creating distance and boundaries? Because unfortunately,
there's going to be a lot of financial repercussions and
housing stuff that is really disruptive if they move forward
with this. Um, so any guidance on how to not
fall into a codependent role? Um, loving and honoring our parents? Well, um,
(17:36):
is greatly welcomed. Thank you.
S6 (17:39):
Well, I can identify with this caller because I think
there are many adult children who have concerns about their parents. Well,
the fact that the caller is a therapist indicates that
she realizes that if a person is suffering from trauma,
past trauma that's never been dealt with, they will make
(17:59):
poor decisions. And when her mother brings up the idea
that she's thinking about divorce. Uh, yes. I do think that, uh,
adult children, uh, have the privilege and the opportunity to
move in and seek to communicate that to their mother,
and especially her being a therapist, because she knows that
(18:19):
there is help if people will deal with past trauma.
So I would say yes. Not trying to control her,
but trying to help her understand. You know, mom, there
are people that can help you with what you're going through. And,
you know, I really realize and just just talk to her, like.
Like you would talk to one of your counselors, and, uh,
(18:40):
we don't know whether her mother would respond, and she
can't make her mother do that. But I do think
it would be worthwhile for her to reach out and
have a really serious talk with her mother about this
whole issue.
S5 (18:54):
Part of the struggle is our caller knows so much
about what is going on. But, you know, the light
bulb has come on. It's like now looking back, the
pieces are fitting together. So she is kind of figuring
this out about her mom. And I wonder if her
dad is also he's been in the marriage for so
many years that, you know, he may not see everything
(19:18):
that she is seeing in a conversation with her. The
therapist with her dad might help as well, don't you think?
S6 (19:25):
Yeah, I think, I think so. And really, even some
of the other family members could get involved, for that matter.
And she's right in one of the things she said,
that even if her mother goes through divorce, that's not
going to help her problem. It's probably it's going to
compound her problem. If she's suffering from past trauma. Uh,
simply getting away from her husband is not going to
give her a wonderful life. So. Yeah. Yeah, I think definitely, uh,
(19:50):
family members need to, uh, have conversations and just see
what they can do to try to help her understand
that there's help.
S5 (19:58):
Well, I love the care and concern of the daughter
for the mom. And maybe you have a similar question
or something that's going on in your family system. You
want to talk with Doctor Chapman about 866424. Gary is
our number. We had a guest recently who talked about
the power of the love languages in the context of
the local church, and that conversation sparked this caller.
S10 (20:21):
Hi Gary, I am a first time caller and I
was listening to the pastor ask about a love language
for the church family, and I kind of agree with
him that church is an interesting family with interesting problems.
We are a family with adults behaving like children with
(20:46):
different interactions. I think it would be very helpful. So
that is my input as a member of a church,
a small church. So I thank you very much. That's
my input.
S6 (21:01):
Well I appreciate that input. You know, we wrote a
book called The Five Languages of Appreciation in the workplace,
in which we actually took the love languages to work
in work relationships, because whether it's work relationships or church relationships, uh,
everybody has the need to feel loved by the significant
(21:22):
people in their lives. And in a church, there are
people that are very significant in our lives. That's what
the church is all about. Uh, another factor is in
that book on, uh, appreciation in the workplace, we deal
with volunteers Errors and how this applies with volunteers. We
discovered that 50% of the adults in this country volunteer
(21:47):
somewhere every year, and many of those we know are
in the church. In fact, the church would not operate
if there were not several volunteers in any church. But
why they volunteer and why they stay in that volunteer
position is very different. They volunteer because they want to
make a difference in the world. As Christians, we want
(22:10):
to have an impact for people, for God. The reason
they stay in that particular position is because they feel appreciated.
If they don't feel appreciated, then they go volunteer somewhere else.
So that has tremendous implications for the church. So yeah,
I think I don't know that I'd want to write
a book on that. Five love languages at church. But
(22:33):
I do think it applies in church church relationships. And
I appreciate this call.
S5 (22:38):
And a lot of people are are struggling with their
church relationship or what the church has, what they thought
the church was going to be like and what it
has become. Church hurt is and we've talked about that
here on the program with several guests. What do you
say to the person who's listening today and who says
that every time I've tried, you know, whether it's a
(23:01):
small group or a church setting, I feel like I'm
in the outside looking in. Is there a as a pastor,
former pastor now you've retired. Is there something that that
you could say to that person?
S6 (23:15):
I would say, don't give up. Listen, there are churches. Yes,
that are very, very difficult. All churches have people who
are difficult. Maybe all is too much, but most churches
have people who are difficult for whatever reason. But we
need to have in the church more teaching on how
to solve conflicts without arguing. How do we work through
(23:38):
our differences and still have unity? Because the Bible talks
a great deal about unity in the church, and many
churches don't have that kind of unity. And I think
it's because we are individuals and we have different ideas,
and some of us have never learned how to, first
of all, respect other people's ideas. You don't have to
(23:59):
agree with them, but you can respect them as a
human that they have a different idea than you do
on this particular issue. And allowing and working together as
a team, even though we have differences. That's the key.
The churches that thrive are those that are willing to
accept differences of opinion, so long as they don't disagree
with the scriptures, of course. Uh, and even then, if
(24:22):
they disagree with the scriptures, that doesn't mean we're not
going to love them. You know, Jesus loved us while
we were unlovely. So most churches could use a little
help along those lines. So and the five love languages
and understanding. That could be again a very positive help
in terms of relationships within the church.
S4 (24:46):
This is the podcast Building relationships with Doctor Gary Chapman.
He's the author of the New York Times best seller
The Five Love Languages. If you go to five Love
Languages comm, you can find out more about that concept.
You can also take a free assessment of your love
language and see our featured resource today. The book You
Get Me Simple Romantic Ways to speak the five love languages.
(25:08):
Just go to five love languages. Comm.
S5 (25:13):
Gary. We hear a lot of calls from people who
are in desperate situations. We're hearing those calls today, but
our next caller is kind of giving a report about
a situation in her family that I think might help
somebody who's going through something similar. Here we go.
S11 (25:29):
I just wanted to give an update for the rest
of the story of what I shared yesterday about my granddaughter.
We told her actually that it wasn't working for us,
and it definitely wasn't working for her, and that we
would give her a 60 day notice that she would
need to find another place to live. And we told
(25:50):
her we'd be praying for her and that we'd loved
her dearly. I just want to say that from the
day she moved out until today, which was over two
years ago, she has been so respectful. We have had
a good relationship. Totally turn around. She started adulting in
such a good way. So I just wanted to let
(26:11):
people know that it really is important to let God
transform us.
S5 (26:19):
And that's where her call cut off right there. But
I'm going to finish this like God transformed that relationship
in his time, in his way. Uh, in in love. Uh,
so that's her report. What do you say, Gary?
S6 (26:33):
Well, I think that's a positive report. And I certainly
would affirm that, you know, I rereleased a book that
I'd written a number of years ago, just recently. The
new title is Your New Life with your adult child,
in this case, your adult grand grandchild. But there is
a place, yes, I deal with that whole issue of
children moving back in with their parents, or sometimes, as
(26:55):
in this case, moving back in with grandparents. And things
are not going in a positive way because they're not
obeying the guidelines and the rules that we set down.
And we should always have guidelines. So there is a
place for kind of hard love. You know, we love you, honey.
It's just not working for us and it's not working
for you. So we're going to ask you to move out.
(27:16):
We're going to give you time to find a place.
And but we love you very much, and we certainly
want to have a relationship with you. And in this case, obviously,
it's been very, very positive. So I think if we
recognize that we certainly love our adult children and we
want to see them prosper in life. In today's world,
it's not unusual that they're going to come back home
(27:37):
for a while, or maybe move in with a grandparent
for a while. And let's face it, there are a
number of grandparents who are raising their grandchildren because the
parents of that grandchild are either in jail or they're
on drugs or are deceased. So there are a number
of grandparents who are now trying to care for adult children,
(27:58):
and often they run into similar situations.
S5 (28:01):
Well, I wanted you to hear that call. And then
right after this grandmother talking about her granddaughter. I wanted
you to hear this next caller, who I believe left
two messages. And in the first one she said she
was trying not to cry as she asked the question,
so she called back again. This is her deep concern.
S12 (28:24):
Hi Gary. I am trying to reach out about my daughter. Order. Um,
and I've had a hard time figuring out her love language,
and I'm been thinking about this for 14 years now, and, uh,
she is doing with, I think, a lot of anger
and unresolved pain. And I just don't know how to
(28:45):
connect with her and how to, uh, have an impact
in her life. And that's why I was calling.
S6 (28:52):
Well, I think any mother who has for 14 years
been trying to figure out her daughter's love language would
be frustrated if she hasn't determined that. And obviously, seeing
the daughter filled with a lot of anger and other negative,
you know, responses, I would say if she's still living
in the home, I would encourage you to say to
(29:16):
the daughter, in your own words, of course, you know, honey,
I love you very much, and I think you love
me even though sometimes obviously, you know, you get very
angry with me, but I would like for both of
us to try to learn how to talk to each
other and how to treat each other in a more
loving and kind way. Would you be willing to go
(29:40):
with me to a Christian counselor who can help both
of us try to understand each other? Because I know
that obviously you're upset a lot of the time, and
I know that I get hurt and sometimes I raise
my voice to you, but I really love you very,
very much. That would be one approach. There's another approach,
(30:02):
and that would be to tell her, you know, honey,
I love you very much, but I read a book
about love languages, and what makes one person feel loved
doesn't make another person feel loved. And I wonder if
you would take this quiz. It's a very it's a
free quiz online and it's for single adults. And it
would it would help me understand you better to know
(30:24):
how to express my love to you. Because I know
sometimes you don't feel loved by me. So it only
takes you 15 minutes or so. Would you be willing
to do that? That might be an easy starting place.
Or give her the book The Five Love Languages Singles Edition.
Let her read that book herself. And to say this
(30:44):
book has helped a lot of singles understand themselves and
understand their parents. So. And maybe if she read it,
chances are then she would definitely want to take the quiz.
That would be my approach. Uh, first of all, is
probably the book or the quiz. And then a little later,
perhaps if things do not begin to get better, uh,
(31:05):
suggest that both of you go for counseling.
S5 (31:09):
The the thing that I hear in her voice and
then in her first call is this, uh, angst and
and and struggle. And I wonder if there's something in
the mom who is looking at her daughter and her
anger and maybe some trauma that her daughter's been through,
and she feels responsible for it. And it's my daughter,
(31:29):
you know. My daughter is struggling because of maybe decisions
I've made or I'm at fault here. And that may
not be the truth at all. What do you say
about that?
S6 (31:39):
Well, that's certainly a possibility, Chris. And the only way
I know you would find that out is to is
to have an honest talk with her. And certainly a
counselor would help in that situation, because the counselor would
help the mother understand the daughter and help the daughter
understand the mother. Sometimes a third party is really necessary,
(32:01):
especially if it's a very strained relationship.
S5 (32:04):
Yeah. And if the daughter says, no, I don't want
anything to do with the counselor. Uh, I think you'd
say to mom. Well, you go then, right?
S6 (32:11):
Yeah. Absolutely, absolutely. Let the counselor help you think through
the situation as to what might be a positive step
you could take.
S5 (32:19):
Hmm. Maybe you've been through this situation with your own
daughter or son or grandson. Granddaughter? And you want to
tell us your story about how this all worked out
and what you did. Your story might help somebody else.
Here's the number 86642 for Gary. That's our listener line call.
Leave your message. 1-866-424-4279. You're listening to building relationships with
(32:44):
Doctor Gary Chapman. Our next caller has a brief question
that I'm sure has a lot of struggle behind it.
Here's our next caller.
S13 (32:54):
Hi, Gary, was wondering if you could answer a great question.
How do you get out of a narcissistic relationship that
has a very thick web? Thanks.
S6 (33:07):
Well, Chris, you know, it all depends on what the
relationship is. If it's a work relationship, you know there's
always other jobs. If it's a marriage, then that's that's
much more difficult because I don't. I don't think we
ought to leave somebody in a marriage just because they're narcissistic.
(33:30):
I do think, however, we have to have honest truth
talk with each other in a healthy marriage. And so
I think to say to that person, if it's a marriage,
to say to them, I love you very much, but
I think you know that many, many times I do
not feel loved by you. And I feel like often
(33:51):
you try to control me and that you are always
right and I'm always wrong. And I just wish we
could find someone to help us. Help you understand me
and me understand you. You know? And just challenge them
to go for counseling. They may or may not be
willing to, but the very fact that you suggested that
(34:12):
and told them that you wanted to learn how to
understand them better and them to understand you better, is
at least the first step. Because even if they reject
it originally, they might be open on down the road
a ways. So I think we have we have to
take a step. We cannot allow someone with that type
(34:33):
of personality to control us and make our lives miserable,
but it has to be done in love. If it's
if it's just out of anger toward them because of
the way they've treated you, and so you're criticizing them.
You're yelling at them, you're screaming at them and all
that sort of thing. Uh, you're making the situation worse
(34:53):
because anger and anger, you know, it just explodes. So
I would suggest you have to learn to get control
of your own anger if you're going to help anyone
with a narcissistic personality.
S5 (35:05):
And for those who don't know, and you've answered this
question before, but narcissism. How do what does it look like, say,
in a marriage?
S6 (35:13):
Well, it's a very controlling person. You know, they they
have all the ideas they make all the plans. They
tell you what you're going to do. Just overbearing in
every situation and put down your ideas. Typically, they're always
right and you're always wrong, and it's hard to live
with that kind of personality.
S5 (35:32):
Yeah, but you're saying there is still hope for a
person who's married to a narcissist?
S6 (35:40):
Yes, but I think they have to take action. They
can't simply just sit there and let it happen. They
have to share in a kind way. You see, typically
what we do in a situation like that is we're
so hurt that we lash out in anger at them,
and we say hateful words and yell and scream at them,
and that just pushes them away and makes the barrier
(36:02):
worse between the two of us. But in a kind way,
to express to them your concern and the fact that
you cannot go on like this. Something has to happen here.
And when they realize how serious it is, often they
themselves will sometimes be open to go for counseling.
S5 (36:21):
Gary, this will be our final question of the hour
and it's a little longer. But there is so much
to the struggle that our caller is describing. I wanted
you to hear as much as we could air today.
Here's what she had to say.
S1 (36:35):
Hi Gary would love an answer to this, but I
have found that it is very taboo. Long story short,
I had a compulsive lying type of sex addiction issue
that apparently is rampant in the church but covered up
(36:56):
a lot. I am still in that relationship, but I
have had people, including my own self, know that I
am not my normal self. We have tried for 3
to 4 years between counseling. You name it, we did
it the deliverance at church and every time there was
(37:19):
all this extreme counseling and praying and hitting with Bibles
and rebuking and just I'm off that train now. Unfortunately,
it has turned me off of Christianity. I had never
been with someone who, you know, prayed and, you know,
made it public to be in the Bible and always
(37:41):
tell me God would fix everything. So I don't know
what you do with that. Do I just be grateful
that I'm not a raging lunatic and I'm not a
suicidal mess anymore? I'm just very blah. I'm not exactly
full of joy. So when there could be no more
(38:02):
going wrong, he went to in treatment. And then there
was an incident there that almost occurred that told me
we have a real problem. We even did ketamine. I mean,
I feel like I've had some friends turn against because
they feel that that this has just gone so far.
I don't know if I'm being lazy, not getting out.
(38:22):
I don't know if I'm doing the godly thing by
just hanging on because I'm kind of stuck in the marriage.
I want to know why the church doesn't deal with
this more. Why betrayal and sex addiction? The amount of
shame and support that I didn't get from the church
(38:44):
is what has turned me away. I don't even go
to church now, and I understand this might be too
much to deal with. Hopefully you can decipher what I'm
trying to ask. I kind of don't know. Is this
is this it for me for the rest of my
life at 55, or do I just do the best
I can? I still, just to this day, can't have anyone,
(39:07):
or at least a Christian, fully answer what in the
world to do? Why we immersed ourselves even more. It
got worse. I don't know if anyone else is in
a situation and stuck or suffering, or it's a very
touchy subject to ever discuss with anyone, let alone any
(39:31):
other kind of believers or Christians. Okay, so thanks so much.
S6 (39:38):
Well, I think when a person has struggled with a
spouse who has a compulsive what she called a compulsive
sex issue, I'm guessing pornography and probably also adultery involved
with someone else. And she turned to the church for help,
and they prayed with her and they told her God
would deliver and all this sort of thing, and she
(39:58):
kind of got turned off to the church. And I
can identify with that. I think that number of people
have had that kind of experience. But let me let
me say this. First of all, it's one thing to
be upset or discouraged by the way a church responds
to these kind of issues. It's another thing to turn
away from God. Here's what I mean by that. Churches
(40:22):
are composed of people. People are humans. Even Christians are humans.
And sometimes the way certain churches respond in different things
and and what they do in trying to help is
not helpful. And so sometimes a person just feels put
off by the whole thing. But I would say don't
give up on God just because the experience in one
(40:46):
church has been a poor experience. I would say, first
of all, God wants to help you walk through this situation.
And secondly, there are Christians who are different from those
that you've experienced who are more open to logical thought
and seeking help other than just saying God's going to deliver,
(41:07):
you know, God's going to deliver that sort of thing.
So certainly God wants people to have a positive life,
and it's why he's laid down principles for us. When
God says, don't do something, it's because he loves us
and he wants us to have the best possible life.
And when someone violates those principles in terms of sexuality
(41:28):
or any other area of life, they're not going to
have the life that God wants them to have. When
you're living with someone like that, uh, obviously it's very,
very painful for you. If a person to whom you
are married persists in pornography and adultery, that is physical
involvement with someone else, and you've been to counseling, but
(41:51):
there's been no change in behavior. There is a place
for tough love. And tough love says, I love you
too much to sit here and do nothing while you
violate the clear teachings of the Bible, and you bring
great pain to me. So if this is your lifestyle
(42:12):
and this is what you intend to do, I want
you to know I am not simply going to be
here and do nothing. I know we've tried counseling, but
you decided to continue in this lifestyle. I love you
too much to continue. I am willing to go again
for counseling with you. I am willing to do anything
I can to help you, but I am not simply
(42:35):
going to sit here and do nothing. You see, I
love you too much to do nothing. So I'm going
to move out. I'm not going to divorce you, but
I'm going to move out. And if you decide that
you want to be delivered from this, you can be delivered.
You have to make the hard decision. God will help
(42:55):
you if you run to God. He will help you
in this area. But you have to agree to cooperate
with God. And I'm not going to simply accept it
as normal behavior, whatever words you use. But there is
a place for that kind of tough love, and many
times a person who has not changed will at that
point be open to real change. But if not, then again,
(43:18):
we can't make our spouse stop anything. Uh. So there
is a juncture at which we just have to realize
we're not helping them by, as it were, affirming what
they're doing by simply sitting there and doing nothing. Yeah.
So it's hard. It's hard. The difference between tough love
and tender love is very hard. But tender love should
(43:40):
always go before tough love. So if you love him
in the right, his right love language, and you seek
to minister to him and serve him in other ways
as a faithful wife, and he still persists in this behavior,
then is the time for tough love. Often what we
do is criticize the person, put them down, express anger
(44:04):
and frustration with them, and then decide that we're going
to take a step to move out. And they say
to themselves, good riddance. I'm tired of hearing all your
yelling and screaming at me anyway. But if we have
given them soft love, tender love over a period of time,
they're far more likely. When you do tough love to
(44:26):
respond in a positive way.
S5 (44:28):
You know what strikes me, Gary, is when she talked about,
it's almost like she's living in black and white when
the world is color. She's just kind of feeling blah
and stunted. And that's the effects of of living with somebody,
you know, who's who's making these choices. But she also said,
you know, here she is in her 50s, this this
(44:49):
shouldn't I've invested my life in this relationship. This shouldn't
be this way. It's not supposed to be this way.
And is this it? Is this all I can hope
for moving forward? And I want to say, you know,
I don't know her, and you don't either, but I
want to say no, it's this is not it. Because
because of the the love of God and the care
of God for you, your life does not have to
(45:12):
be held back by his choices. Does that make sense?
S6 (45:17):
Yeah. I think you know God has a plan for
her life if she's a believer in Christ already, God
has a plan for her life. If she's never accepted Christ.
God loves her. He wants her to become his child,
and then he wants to use her in a positive way.
So she has a life to live. And running away
from God is not the answer. Running to God is
(45:40):
the answer. Because if she runs to God and she's
totally committed to God and walking with him, and then
finding a church where people are loving and kind and
tender and caring, then she will have a life and
God will use her life, no question about that. Uh,
whether her husband turns around or whether he doesn't turn around.
S5 (45:59):
Well, before we conclude, I want you to to call Gary,
leave a message, maybe in response to the caller we
just heard 1866424. Gary, if you have a comment or
maybe you have a question about your own relationships. (866)Â 424-4279.
We'd love to hear from you. You can also find
simple ways to strengthen your relationships online at Building Relationships.
(46:25):
See our featured resource by Doctor Chapman and Jen Mickleborough.
You get me simple, romantic ways to speak five love languages.
Just go to building relationships.
S6 (46:36):
And next week, if you're a mom who feels overwhelmed
with anger, don't miss the conversation in one week.
S4 (46:44):
We hope you'll join us then. A big thank you
to our production team, Steve Wick and Janice backing. Building
relationships with Doctor Gary Chapman is a production of Moody
Radio in association with Moody Publishers, a ministry of Moody
Bible Institute. Thanks for listening.
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