June 7, 2025 • 48 mins
The preteen years can be perilous for parents and children. How can you navigate these years with grace and love? On this Building Relationships with Dr. Gary Chapman, Tricia Goyer and Leslie Nunnery will share five real-life building blocks for raising preteens. If you want to connect with your children on a deeper level and watch them grow in their faith, don’t miss the encouragement on Building Relationships with Gary Chapman.
Featured resource: FAITH THAT STICKS: 5 REAL-LIFE WAYS TO DISCIPLE YOUR PRETEEN
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Episode Transcript
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S1 (00:00):
If you're the parent of a Pre-teenager, don't miss Today's
Building Relationships with Doctor Gary Chapman.
S2 (00:06):
If you have pre-teens, you think that they're not listening,
they're not paying attention. But just keep going because those
are seeds that you are planting.
S3 (00:14):
With all the pressures that our kids are dealing with now.
God still will lead each individual parent to engage with
each individual child, and I think that's incredibly hopeful.
S1 (00:28):
Welcome to building relationships with Doctor Gary Chapman, author of
The New York Times best seller The Five Love Languages. Well,
the preteen years are hard for parents and kids. How
can you navigate the complexities of today's world with grace
and love? That's what we'll talk about straight ahead.
S4 (00:45):
And we have two guests for you. Tricia Goyer and
Leslie Nunnery. They've teamed to write today's featured resource. Faith
that sticks. Five Real-Life Ways to Disciple Your Preteen. Just
go to building relationships to find out more. And Gary,
I know you have a heart for parents who are
right in the middle of raising pre-teenagers.
S5 (01:07):
I do indeed. I remember I wrote a book some
years ago called things I Wish I'd Known Before Our
Children Became Teenagers. So I'm excited about this topic, and
I think our listeners will be and I think this
book is going to help them. So yeah, it's great.
I'm great to have Tricia and Leslie with us today.
S4 (01:29):
Let me introduce them. Tricia Goyer is a speaker, podcast host,
USA today bestselling author of more than 90 books. She
writes fiction and nonfiction. She's a wife, a homeschooling mom
of ten, and mentors writers from little Rock, Arkansas. Leslie Nunnery,
her co-author, is co founder of Teach Them Diligently. She's
(01:50):
a mom of four. She inspires Christian parents to embrace
biblical discipleship and intentional parenting. Together, they've written Faith That sticks.
Five Real Life Ways to Disciple Your Pre-Teen. We haven't
looked at the website building relationships.
S5 (02:08):
Well, Tricia, I want to know, first of all, how
can you write 90 books?
S4 (02:11):
Yes.
S2 (02:13):
You know, a little bit every day. It's actually it's
actually my break from my kids. It's like, sorry, kids,
I have to go work on this book right now.
S5 (02:20):
So. Well, good for you, girl. I'm impressed. Well, what
inspired the two of you to write this book? Faith
that sticks. And why did you feel this book was
so important for today's parents?
S2 (02:33):
Yeah, I will jump in with that. So I am
blessed to be one of the speakers at the conference
that Leslie and her husband David, run. And when we're there,
we get to talk with a lot of parents. We
interact with them at the booths. And there was lots,
you know, books for teen parents of teenagers and little kids.
But there's a lot of questions coming up about pre-teens.
(02:53):
Leslie and I both get those questions. And really, it's
that time when you have this sweet little kid that
they love, the read out loud, they love sitting with you,
they love going on walks, and suddenly they might be
dressing weird. They're rolling their eyes. They're they're changing before you.
And all the worries and the fears start coming up
in parents. And so Leslie and I really were just
(03:14):
wanting to encourage parents and assure them that they're not
going to lose their kids. In fact, they can really
press in, and this time can be a really great
time to disciple them and draw them closer to God.
S5 (03:27):
Well, talk about the word discipling. Uh, that's almost a
lost art in today's world. What is the concept of
discipling and how does it apply to pre-teens?
S3 (03:38):
Um, I am I always love to talk about discipleship.
Discipleship essentially is leveraging what God has taught you on
behalf of someone else. And so in context of a
family that is parents particularly Leveraging the things that God
has taught them through the years and in their morning
time with God on behalf of helping their children learn
(04:01):
it earlier. Avoid the mistakes they made. Really just getting
in and pointing your children towards Jesus day by day. Um,
and so as parents, we have just an incredible opportunity
to go for the hearts of our children, and then
we have a front row seat to see how God
is working in their lives day by day, which honestly
can be a little scary as well as exciting because
(04:23):
we see all the stumbles and missteps just as or
along with all of the good things that God's doing.
S5 (04:30):
Yeah. Well, what did each of you learn while writing this,
that that maybe you wished you had known before when
you were parenting preteens?
S2 (04:39):
Well, the funny thing is, I'm just getting out of
the pre-teen years. Our oldest is 35 and we have
three biological, and we have adopted seven kids and our
youngest is 14. So I am still I feel like
right there. And I just had a conversation the other
night at dinner with a, um, a therapist. She's a
trauma therapist. And because we adopted kids from foster care,
(05:00):
there's some trauma stuff, and I'm like, I don't know
what to do. I just feel like I'm not connecting
with my 14 year old son. He just wants to argue.
And I went into this and she's like, that's all
14 year old boys. That's not just it's not trauma.
And I'm like, I just wrote a book on this.
Like I just wrote a book, and I'm like, I
need to go back and read my book. And the
(05:20):
advice I gave. And because I think we, we think
that it's just our kid and we're doing something wrong
and there's all these problems coming. But really it is
that reminder which I'm still reminding myself daily, like, this
is the time they kind of want to figure out
life themselves. They want to try things out. You know, parents, um,
might not, they think might not have all the answers.
(05:42):
Let me see what's out there. But of course, we
know we have God's truth. We have prayer. We have
these things that we're going to talk about. But it's
just a reminder. I'm still reminding myself that it's going
to be okay. This is a normal part of having
kids this age.
S3 (05:57):
Well, yeah, and I think that Tricia kind of alluded
to it, but there's so much fear that pops into
the heart and mind of a parent during this time.
And I certainly struggled. I talk in the book about
how there were times, especially with my boys, where I
almost became paralyzed with fears because I was so afraid
and so aware of the things that were coming at them.
(06:17):
And I, I knew they were high value targets to
the enemy. Um, and so one thing that I really
wish that I had known, that I found out in
researching for this book is all of the physiological and
emotional and developmental changes that are going on in them,
because I think that sometimes a lot of times, probably,
I mis assessed what was going on and it made
(06:39):
me like freak out and get so scared when actually
it's it's a normal brain development thing that's leading to,
you know, hormone rushes or emotional and instability. It's a
and normal insecurity that that I had the privilege of
helping them work through and pointing them to Jesus and
helping them understand their fearfully and wonderfully made. And instead
(07:01):
of knowing all of that and seizing those moments, I'm
afraid that I may have have allowed that fear to
to make me react poorly or not react at all
in situations where I had a great opportunity to help
my kiddos.
S5 (07:14):
Yeah, well, those are lessons I hope that people are
listening to us today are going to get a taste of.
And I hope that this I know this book is
going to help them, because what you're sharing is what
many of us felt at that stage of parenting. Uh,
why is the pre-teen stage such a critical time for
discipleship and faith development?
S3 (07:37):
I alluded a second ago to the development that's going
on inside our kids brains, and during this time, they
are getting the the ability to think more abstractly. We
joke all the time that, you know, we've gone from
black and white to various shades of gray, but that's
that's really true. They're able to to take things that
(07:57):
aren't necessarily black and white, and they're starting to to
put pieces together and connect the dots on things. They're
getting a much more mature way of thinking. And so
all of those lessons that they learned while they were little,
the accounts from Scripture, the the songs, the things that
we were so diligent to teach them. Now we have
the opportunity during this pre-teen stage to help them take
(08:21):
that a little further, to see how they connect those
dots with their real life today, to see how Jesus's
love for them and others around them impacts the way
that they make choices. And so, just by virtue of
the way that they are developing, if we are intentional
in in the way that we are approaching them and
building relationships with them and discipling shepherding their hearts, We
(08:45):
will have an amazing opportunity to disciple and help them
form a faith that really is truly their own, and
that will stick with them for the rest of their lives,
because we're giving them a really solid foundation to build
it on.
S2 (08:58):
Yeah, and I think too, I will add in there. So,
you know, having older kids really helped me as I
continue to go through these pre-teen years because I realized, like,
even when it seems like they weren't paying attention, maybe
we weren't doing as much Bible study like we were
because we were getting basketball or different things in. But
we were we were trying, you know, making sure that
(09:19):
we're at least doing something, even if it seems like
they're not paying attention or they're like, oh, we have
to read this again. It all matters when they get
to be adults. I realize, like, oh, they were listening
or oh, they did incorporate that into their life. Um,
and so when we adopted kids, actually four of them
that we adopted were ages 11, 13 year old twins
(09:39):
and a 15 year old when they moved into our home.
And they go from first a really hard environment to
being in foster care for five years to all of
a sudden they're in our house and I'm like, we're
going to homeschool and we're going to read God's Word
every day, and we're going to pray, even if it's
just one sentence, everyone's going to pray and they're just like,
where have we landed? Like, you know, like it was
(10:01):
like Mars to them. But because I had older kids
and I had, like, realized like even it seems like
they're not paying attention or they really don't want to
do it. Just continue on. And I would say, you know,
just put your head down. You just, you know, I'm
going to read the Bible. Just we're all going to
do this. This is going to be something we're going
to do. They weren't interested. They didn't seem like they
(10:23):
were paying attention at all. And years later, they'll say,
remember when you said that? Remember when you talked about that?
I remember we talked about David and how emo emotional
he was. He was like, I am but a worm,
not a man. And they just thought that was hilarious.
And they will bring that up. Like, I'm being really emotional,
just like David. I am but a worm and I'm like,
(10:44):
it matters. And so I just really want to encourage.
If you have pre-teens, know that you think that they're
not listening, they're not paying attention, but just keep going
because those are seeds that you are planting.
S5 (10:57):
Tricia, you mentioned earlier the mood swings, the eye rolls
and those kind of things. Uh, you deal with those
topics in the book and and more, of course. And
you recall your own journeys. Uh, was it difficult to
remember that what life was like as a pre-teen?
S2 (11:17):
I think we always forget how hard it is to
be a kid, and to feel like we don't even
really know ourselves. I think that pre-teen age is they
don't know, like, do I like this kind of music?
Do I like this kind of clothes? Maybe I want
my hair this way. They're just trying to figure out
where they fit in the world. When I was a pre-teen,
(11:37):
I thankfully my my family moved near a library and
I discovered books like I and I became engrossed in
reading and books, and I'm so thankful for that. But
I remember looking back, I'm like, why did I wear
wear those clothes? Or why did I have my hair
that way? And it really is. You were just trying
to figure out who you are. And so I think
sometimes when our kids act a certain way, may wear
(12:01):
clothes or I remember my oldest daughter when she was
a pre-teen, all of a sudden want to wear dark
eye makeup like she just barely started wearing makeup, and
now she wants to do dark eye makeup. And I'm like,
oh my goodness, she's going to go gothic or all
these things. She is not. She's a missionary now like
she is. She is fine. She she dresses normal, but
they're just trying to figure out who they are. And
(12:23):
we forget that. We forget like we were doing the
same thing. I was in the 80s with the big hairspray,
hair sticking up everywhere. I mean, we're just trying to
figure out who we are.
S5 (12:33):
Yeah.
S3 (12:34):
Yeah, I, I actually remember sitting on a plane as
we were kind of finishing this book up, and I
guess because I was bored on a plane, I started
thinking about that, like, what was it really like? And
one of the thoughts that the Lord struck me with
at that point was, you really should have thought about
this when you were raising pre-teens. That would have been
really helpful. But because, you know, during my pre-teen years,
(12:56):
we moved several times different states all over the place.
I was constantly having to make new friends. I was
super shy at the time and just it was very
awkward and very difficult. But what really stands out more
than anything for me personally, is that despite a lot
of upheaval, despite I can echo the 80s stuff and
(13:19):
all the things the bad looks that Tricia was talking
about did all of those things. But when I kind
of got past that and I looked back, I realized
that my parents navigated that magnificently. I think that that
had a huge impact on the way that I then
shepherded my children through that without me knowing, you know,
(13:41):
any of the stuff that I know now from writing
the book, just kind of doing the next thing, taking
the next step helped. My sister and I walk through
those difficult years without crashing and burning like so many do.
You know, you hear about the statistics and we have
some of this in the book, too. That middle school,
that pre-teen time is really, really hard on kids nowadays.
(14:03):
The pressures, just the emotions. It's much more intense than
anything that we would have experienced growing up. And so
just staying engaged with them, like my parents did with me,
that's really one of the things God just just really
impressed on my heart. And I went to my parents
and thanked them because I doubt that I ever had before.
But but just I found such hope in that recognizing,
(14:26):
you know, God's plan for families is so beautiful, and
he gives parents wisdom as they just do the next thing.
Just pray the next prayer. Engage in the next conversation.
And so even in those crazy, crazy years, with all
the pressures that our kids are dealing with now, God
still will lead each individual parent to engage with each
(14:47):
individual child. And I think that's incredibly hopeful.
S5 (14:50):
I certainly would agree with that. Now, you say that
there are five key areas that provide a roadmap for
parents who feel overwhelmed or unequipped. Tell us those five
areas and why are they so important?
S3 (15:05):
I'll start with the first three and then let Tricia
come in with the last couple. Um, and honestly, all
of the five that we have in there are are easy. They're,
they're things that make a lot of common sense to do.
But it's really in the follow up. It's in how
you apply and how you actually start doing these within
your homes that you see great changes. So the first
(15:26):
three are prayer, Bible reading and family relationships. Prayer is
something that you've you've probably done together since they were
very young. It's, you know, you say your prayers around
the table. A lot of times families will will take
prayer requests and pray together or praises and pray together
during family devotions. And that is something that as your
kids are getting to be pre-teens, you have the opportunity
(15:47):
to really train them, um, to go even deeper in
the way that they are praying. You're able to to
use that time to engage with them and let them
know that you care about the things that matter to them. Um,
that's a very easy way to to really, um, allow
prayer to to strengthen relationships honestly. And then, of course,
(16:08):
parents should be praying for their children very, very strategically.
In the back of our book, there is a list
of scriptures that you can pray for your children that
I did the whole time my kids were growing up.
But very strategic ways that you can pray scripture for
your children and then allow the Lord to lead you
as he answers those prayers, give you opportunities, give you
the words to say. It's pretty amazing when you're praying
(16:30):
for your kids, how God will lead you. So first
is prayer, second is Bible reading. And that's something that
I think a lot of people make too hard. They
they overthink it. Uh, Bible reading together is really just
that you don't have to to get so hung up
on family devotions, having a perfect program and a perfect
cadence to it. Um, a lot of times for our family,
(16:52):
we would just read a psalm and then discuss it.
So Bible reading together is really important, but also how
you're modeling for your kids that you're in God's word,
that your spouse is in God's Word, that you all
are growing and changing. Because again, like I said at
the beginning, discipleship is leveraging what God is teaching you
on behalf of the other of someone else. And so
(17:12):
you're able to leverage the fact that you're in God's
Word every day to bring your kids along and help
them form that relationship, too. That's one of the things
that God gave me as an idea when the kids
were really, really young. And again, it came through praying scripture.
I prayed that they would know God's Word. And so
the Lord just started prompting me to talk to my
(17:33):
very little kids at breakfast. What God had shown me
in my devotions that morning. So I just started telling
him every day. Well, as the years progressed, I realized
that first of all, the only Christians that my kids
saw in the morning were me and David, and they
would get up and see both of us in God's Word.
So to my kids, that's what Christians did. So it
(17:53):
actually became easier for them to start building the habit
of getting God's Word every day, because it was introduced
at a very young age. Now, not to say that
any of us are perfect, however, we were whetting their
appetite for that. And so then they started talking about
what they were reading in their devotions as well. And
so Bible reading became just really part of the fabric
(18:16):
of our home. And it just started with God answering
that prayer and giving one little idea that I had
no idea how consequential that little idea was going to be.
So you've got prayer, Bible reading and then family relationships,
just really prioritizing time with your kids, time as a family,
coming up with those, those special traditions and things that
(18:40):
you do that show. This is the culture of our family.
This is where you belong. This is where you are
loved unconditionally. Those relationships go an awful long way towards
giving your kids the stability and helping them to combat
the insecurity that comes at them during this time, but
it also gives you a great platform to disciple them
(19:03):
and to help them build that faith that sticks.
S2 (19:06):
Yeah, and I'll just jump in with conversations. You know, um,
we always often want to sit down and just look
our kids in the eye and say, what did you
learn today? Or how was your day? And they're like, fine,
nothing like they it's it's hard for them to connect.
And so really when we're going on a ride in
the car, I'll do errands and take one of my kids,
and we'll stop and get a smoothie. We might talk
(19:27):
for 30 minutes about whatever video game they like, the
baseball score from last night, whatever. The last five minutes
as we're going home. The important thing will come up.
Or at 11:00 at night, the important thing will come
up because they're finally, like, connected with us. And really,
conversation is that connection. First, like Leslie was saying, with relationships,
(19:48):
when we're doing life together, when we're having fun together,
when they trust that we're listening to them, when we're
not looking at our phones, um, they will have those conversations.
But it takes a build up. It's not going to
be immediately like, sit down, look at me and tell
me all your deepest, darkest fears and secrets like that.
That's not how preteens work. Um, so we really want
to have that side by side time and then service.
(20:11):
For years, my kids, I helped start a crisis pregnancy center.
My older kids, they were there with us. Um, my
husband and I led children's church for many years. They
were there with us as we adopted kids. I, um,
supported teen moms. I took my girls, pre-teen girls, and
they helped babysit. They helped do meals for these teen moms,
and it's just showing that this is what we do
(20:33):
and we're serving together. They meet other great Christian men
and women who are serving and becomes part of who
they are. And when they're used to serving in church,
they're more engaged. It's not something you show up to
to be entertained. It's something you're part of, to care
for others. And that really makes a big difference.
S5 (20:50):
Hmm. Yeah. That conversation reminds me of the time when
mine were pre-teens and you mentioned it and you alluded
to it often. They want to talk and it's late
at night. It's their bedtime. And I remember, yes, they
asked questions and I just started sitting down on the floor,
(21:11):
you know, and walking to the bed and all. And
we prayed and all. But they bring up something. And
I just realized, okay, they're bringing it up. This is
the time to talk about it, because they may not
bring it up tomorrow, you know, or they may not
bring it up in a week. But if it's on
their minds, we need to be open to the conversations,
that's for sure. Well, can each of you share, uh,
(21:31):
like a real life example of that you outlined in
the book on, uh, how to disciple, uh, pre-teens? Can
you think of one real life example from each of you?
S3 (21:45):
Well, I can tell you kind of lopping back to
the conversation arena there. There are several times that I
remember jumping to just the worst possible conclusion, like I
would I would see something going on. The Lord would
really prick my heart that I needed to focus in
on one of my kids, and I would make assumptions
(22:06):
and then often act on those assumptions, you know, like
I as if it were true. But I found that
when I would step back and I would feel like
the Lord was saying, this child really needs your attention now.
And I would do something special with that child that
often through asking questions, um, I would I would realize
(22:29):
that more often than not, what I was dealing with
was either immaturity or, I mean just honestly foolishness and
not a deep seated, you know, black hole of sin.
Like I had convinced myself that it was. But it
took slowing down and taking the time to ask questions.
(22:50):
David and I have reminded each other a lot through
the years that questions prick the conscience, but accusations harden
the will, and so we try really hard when we're
going into conversations with our kids to try to get
to the bottom of what's really going on in their
heart and mind, because I found, especially with pre-teens, a
(23:11):
lot of times they don't know, like, and I, I,
I feel like it's especially boys. It's like their head
is disconnected from their body. There is no there's no
reason going into what they do. And so by posing
questions to just help them to start making connections for themselves,
it's a lot of times that you'll find that what's
(23:32):
going on is not really anything to fear. It's something
that you can coach them through. It was maybe a
really dumb thing to do, but it's not as bad
as what you were bracing for. Whereas if I allowed
myself to make those assumptions and then act as if
there's this deep sin problem and they're probably walking away
(23:55):
from the faith and I'm going to lose them, and
all of these things that Satan wants to whisper in
your head, you know, like, ah, you're just the anxiety
riles up. If you react in that way, you actually
just escalate the problem, and you very rarely get to
what's really at the heart of it. And as a parent,
we want to get to the heart of what's going
on so that we can shepherd them through it. So
(24:17):
just taking the time to ask questions and go for
the heart of the matter is one of those things
that I have found time after time after time after
time was incredibly valuable in my parenting career.
S2 (24:31):
Yeah, and I'm going to jump in. I was the
thing that came to my mind kind of goes with that. Um,
because in today's world, you'll often hear things, hear them
say things like, I don't want to have this conversation.
One example that I give in the book, and she
gave me permission to share. This is one of our
pre-teen daughters that we adopted, and she came up one
day as I'm cooking dinner and said, I think I'm bisexual.
(24:53):
And I'm like, no, you're not. She goes, why would
you say that? I'm like, I see you. I see
you checking out boys all the time. Like, but then,
like Leslie was saying, ask a question. Why would you
say that? And she said, well, I think girls are pretty.
And I said, well, all girls think girls are pretty.
And she's like, really? I'm like, you look at someone
at church and think, she looks really pretty today. That
(25:14):
doesn't mean anything. Like it's like you want to become
sexually active with that person. We all notice those things,
but then continue to like look into it. So what
we discovered is that they had an older sister that
had aged out of foster care, and a friend of
that older sister had got her number and was messaging
her inappropriate messages. Our pre-teen daughter, this older girl, was
(25:37):
messaging her inappropriate messages that we were able to stop, block,
take care of. But if I would have just been like,
the Bible says this, and we're going to sit down
and we're going to have a very serious conversation, she
probably would have pushed back. Yeah, but just asking questions,
being curious, not letting your jaw drop like it's just
like an everyday conversation as I'm cutting this onion right now,
(25:59):
you know, it really took away some of the the angst.
I think that was in both of us. But also
then later, years later when another one of your younger
sisters mentioned it, she said, no, you're not. She goes
like mom said, all girls think girls are pretty. And
that girl, that sister goes, okay. And that was like,
(26:19):
I'm so thankful. It must have been the Holy Spirit
that said that. Because, yeah, sometimes we get so stressed
out and we need to sit down and have, like,
they know what God's Word said, you know? Yeah. We
just didn't have these conversations without really making them feel
like we are speaking and and just shooting all this
scripture at them that they are feeling like they have
to be defensive.
S5 (26:40):
Yeah. That's excellent. Asking further questions whenever they bring up
a topic that might put you into shock is certainly
the most positive thing you can do.
S1 (26:54):
You're listening to the Building Relationships with Doctor Gary Chapman podcast.
Our guests today are Lesley Nunnery and Tricia Goyer, authors
of the book Faith That Sticks five Real Life Ways
to Disciple Your Pre-Teen. Find out more@5.com. That's five love languages.
S5 (27:13):
Well, we all know that there's power in stories, and
you all have a number of stories in the book,
and you're also vulnerable about mistakes and missteps that you made.
Share a little of your own personal parenting experiences, where
perhaps you look back and realize there was a mistake
there or a misstep there.
S3 (27:32):
I have a real problem, even to this day. I
try so hard to overcome it, but I have a
real problem of wanting to step in and fix things
for people and to make everything right. And so I
remember one time in particular, my oldest son, who, bless
his heart, just like all oldest kids, are the guinea
pig and get the get all, I get all my
(27:53):
experience on him. But I remember when he was a pre-teen,
it just seemed like he was so awkward and he
had no friends, and my heart just went out for
him and I was going to fix that for him.
And so I bless my heart, I came up with
this brilliant idea to have a sleepover for him and
(28:14):
these guys in his class. I invited everybody because I
was going to make this thing just great, and he
was going to be just full of friendships and it
was going to be awesome. And, um, it was not awesome.
It was horrifying in most every way. You get that
many ten, 11, 12 year old boys together and they
destroy things and they dislike each other. And it's just
(28:35):
it was just craziness. Um, but God taught me a
lot through that. First of all, the evening was miserable.
I got scratches on my walls and all kinds of stuff.
It was just a crazy night, but I realized I
never once asked him whether that was something that he wanted.
I just decided I was going to fix it for him.
I was going to put him in a position where
(28:56):
he could make good friends, and never even thinking that
maybe guys are different than girls, and they don't engage
the same way that girls do. Or maybe he's still
growing up and he needs time to mature into friendships
or any of those things. I just really, I guess
it kind of boils down to I want in my
own way, I wanted him to have this, this picture
(29:20):
perfect friendship that I had in my head. And so
I did everything that I could to orchestrate it. And
God taught me a pretty valuable lesson that day. It
was it was not pretty.
S5 (29:30):
Yep, yep. We learned. Often learned by our mistakes and missteps. Yes. Tricia,
does something come to your mind?
S2 (29:39):
Absolutely. Well, I'm trying to pick which one, because I'm.
S5 (29:42):
I'm multiple things.
S2 (29:43):
But the beginning of the book, we actually have, before
we get to the actual five ways, we talk about
two things. We talk about, um, technology, social media, all
that type of thing. And we also talk about anger
and emotions, because when we were speaking at conferences, those
were the things that people were asking us specifically about
with pre-teens. So for me, when they want to do
(30:04):
something and I'm like, on my phone, that's right away.
The first thing that came to mind. But going even
deeper than that, when we have kids that are getting angry,
they're upset about something. Suddenly I'm upset and saying, don't
talk to me that way. That's disrespectful. And then jumping
immediately to consequences like, you can't have television tonight or what?
(30:25):
You can't go to that friend's house instead of looking
and see why they're getting angry. Um, I would just
give consequences until we started, like going to therapy, especially
trauma therapy. And the therapist is like, well, why? Why
are they getting angry? I'm like, I don't, I don't know.
And she also said, when they're angry and you're jumping
straight to consequences, you're not getting to the heart of it.
(30:48):
And if you're raising your voice, suddenly they're a victim.
So so first of all, they're mad. Then you raise
your voice and then all of a sudden they're a victim.
So not only are they not able to talk about
what's going on, suddenly you're the bad guy and their
they're a victim. And then this is a bad cycle.
And so she's like, so when you stay calm you win.
(31:09):
And so I'm she's like, don't raise your voice. Don't
follow them to your room. Don't give them consequences. You
stay calm and you can help regulate them. You can
be there when they're ready to talk about it. You
can ask questions. And so for me, I was never
I never thought of myself as an angry person. And
it's not like I was like screaming and yelling, but
(31:29):
my voice would raise, I would give consequences. I would
be upset about the way they were treating me. And
so really and I remember clearly we have upstairs with
the kids rooms were upstairs, and as they're stomping upstairs,
I'd be standing at the bottom. If I stay calm,
I win. If I stay calm, I win. And just
like letting them go. And then later going up, you know,
it might be two hours later like, hey, what was
(31:51):
that about? And after they've calmed down, regulated themselves, then
we can have the conversation because in the moment it
doesn't help anybody.
S5 (31:59):
Yeah. No, you're exactly right. That great advice. Learn from
your situation. This is something we haven't talked about yet.
How important is it to have Mom and Dad on
the same page? And then what do you do if
you find yourselves disagreeing on some aspect of raising raising
the pre-teen?
S3 (32:21):
Hmm. It's really difficult if you're not on the same page.
And sadly, that's the story in a lot of homes.
Both Tricia and John and David and I do a
lot of counseling and mentoring with parents. And it's it's
really important that you understand what God has called you
to do and that you you pray together and work
(32:45):
together to get on the same page as to how
he wants you to do it. So, um, in in
a perfect world, we would all be on the same page, um,
because it does make it so much easier to disciple
your your children cohesively to model for them what you
know life should look like. You know all of these things.
God's given us this great blueprint for how to do it.
(33:07):
We are, however, flawed people. Um, and so that there
there will be a lot of times when you're going
to disagree about specifics, even if you have a, a
cohesive big picture view. Um, and so I would just
encourage you to be very careful that you are not
disagreeing in front of everyone. David and I worked really
hard to take our disagreements elsewhere, so that we could
(33:31):
try to talk it through, to get more on the
same page, or to at least come to a resolution
on those things. Kids being as insightful and perceptive as
they are, can always tell when there's dissension there, and
most of them will take advantage of that. And I
don't blame them. I would too. So just trying to
(33:53):
to at least take the time as a couple to
Separate yourself from a situation that you may not have
the same approach on, to discuss and pray through, and
kind of look at it in context of what God
has called you to do holistically, and then trying to
deal with that specific thing. From there, I would just
(34:13):
really encourage parents not to sit there and disagree about
how to deal with the situation right there in front
of the child, because that really puts that kid in
a in a rough situation. But it also undermines your
authority in their lives because you guys are are kind
of wobbly on it too. So I just would encourage
you to kind of step away and try to talk
(34:33):
it through before you present a united front like that
with your children.
S2 (34:39):
Yeah. I have an example from Sunday. So here's my.
S3 (34:43):
Example.
S2 (34:45):
So, so Sunday at church we were a little bit late.
And so our kids were sitting right behind us. So
there wasn't like five seats in a row. So we
were John and I were in one row and they
were right behind us, and I could hear my 17
year old whispering to her brother, um, he's 14. And
so I turn around a couple times and he's on
his phone, which he doesn't have social media or anything,
(35:05):
but there's little games on there. And no, he's not
supposed to be on his phone. He's supposed to be
listening to the sermon. And I looked at him once and,
you know, gave him the look and turned back. A
little while later, he's still on his phone, so I
just took his phone away. I handed it to my husband. Well,
at the end of service, my husband handed him back
and I just looked at him and he must have
seen in my eye. And later when we got home
(35:28):
away from the kids, he's like, did I do something wrong?
I'm like, well, if in that moment I almost felt
like bad cop, good cop, like, mom took your phone away.
But here you go. And I said, next time, like,
you know, I know you were holding it. Just next time.
Maybe if I could just give them back. And he's like, okay.
And it was like, that was it. I wasn't mad
at him, but he could tell I like, tensed up
on that when he handed the phone back. And he's like, okay,
(35:50):
that makes sense. It was that simple. It wasn't. Yeah.
I Yeah. I didn't blow up in church, you know,
but it was that simple that he didn't realize that
if I felt like being the bad cop and he
was the good cop because he was the one that
gave the phone back.
S5 (36:02):
Yeah, yeah, we will have differences, no question about that.
But yeah, what you, each of you have described is
how to handle those differences so that we're not communicating
to the pre-teen. You know we disagree on this. You know.
And now you all have talked about the value of
conversations and the role they play in discipling pre-teens. How
(36:24):
can parents make them these conversations more meaningful?
S2 (36:28):
I will add one thing that I think has really
helped with conversations is me kind of sharing the ways
I've messed up, whether it's, um, something that I'm struggling
with currently and how God's working in my heart, or
as a teenager or a pre-teen, things that I wish
I would have had done differently. I think sometimes they
might see, like, we're just always feel like we have
(36:50):
to tell them the right way to do that. And
I think when we share kind of our struggles or things,
mistakes that we made, it helps them pay attention better
because we're not coming to them like we have everything right,
because they know they live with us. We don't do
everything right, and it just gives them that, that place like, okay,
mom's confessing and asking for that forgiveness. When we do
mess up, it really can change those conversations.
S5 (37:11):
Yeah.
S3 (37:12):
Oh for sure. And then it's just learning about what's
important to them. You know, helping them understand that if
they are really into fill in the blanks Mario Kart
or whatever it is during that time, that's something that
was important to me. And so by learning more about
the things that they were interested in, it really opened
(37:35):
the doors for deeper conversations that mattered. So it's just
like with any other relationship, if if you are engaging
with someone and all you ever do is talk about
very serious things or things that are important to you.
That's not always going to be the. Your favorite relationship
to just go hang out with, right. But if you
(37:56):
share things that you like. If you get excited about
the same things that get them excited. And then you're
able to have some deeper conversations mixed in. It's a
very natural conversational environment, and it's also a little bit
disarming for them. So I think that you get a
lot more insight into their heart because they're not putting
up these walls. You're having fun together and they're relaxed.
(38:19):
And so they just talk very naturally, and you get
great insight into what's really going on in their hearts
that way.
S5 (38:25):
Yeah. We talk about teaching biblical truth to our pre-teens,
but if it's just a one way teaching, you know,
like verbalizing biblical truths and all. Uh, how do parents
open the door for those preteens to ask questions or
to express doubts? Uh, in terms of what we're trying
(38:48):
to communicate.
S3 (38:50):
I think that that platform is actually built on a
lot of the stuff that we've talked about before. It's
you have the relationship with them where they feel comfortable
bringing those doubts or questions to you. So you want
to first of all, make sure that you are investing
in a relationship with them. That makes those harder conversations possible.
But then when they do, it's really important that you
(39:13):
respond in a way that shows them that you are
not freaking out. Like I've had my kids ask me
questions that basically curled my toes. But it's in those
moments you're asking God for the grace and the wisdom
to control yourself and to and to respond in a
way that is engaging with them. That's questions are hugely
important there. Find out why they're asking it. Where did
(39:36):
they hear it? What's going on underneath the surface that's
making them think that way. And then you can start
moving on as you're engaging with them to to offering
insights or direction. And sometimes that conversation is going to
be spread across a lot of time. You're going to
have to really, really dive in with them and see
what that struggle is. But you never want to belittle
(39:59):
the struggle, and you also never want to react so
that they're going to recoil and not bring any other
struggles to you or not go deeper into that one
with you. You want to make sure that whatever you do,
you keep that line of communication with your kids open,
because I would much rather be the one that they
bring those hard questions to than anyone else in the world,
(40:19):
because God has entrusted their spiritual development during the time
they're in my home to me, and I want to
shepherd that really, really well.
S2 (40:28):
You know, it was it's during those times when they're
asking those questions, like Leslie says, my husband and he
would often say this, well, how's that working out for them?
They'll say, well, so and so's parents, let them do this,
or so-and-so watches this, or so-and-so believes this or so-and-so
and you're like, how's that working out for them? What
does their life look like? And that really helps kids
to take a look. It's not just like they have
(40:50):
a different opinion, but okay, so and so's parents let
them drink or whatever. Like how how is that showing
up in their life? And I think that really helps
kids to stop and look like, oh, that's not a
good thing. Oh, their parents let them stay up till
2 a.m.. Oh yeah. They're really tired at school or
Sunday school. So instead of just again, you know, preaching
(41:11):
all the time. But I love Leslie brought this up
to asking really good questions.
S5 (41:15):
Yeah. What about the whole area of technology, social media?
You know, our kids are just flooded with input all
around them. How do you disciple a pre-teen in today's
world of technology?
S2 (41:31):
I think it's important to know that they are going
to see stuff, and they are going to be around stuff,
even if it's not from us in our home. Um,
I remember the first time one of our kids, they
came and said something they saw because they were at
the neighbor's house. The neighbor kid had the the mom's
phone that had, you know, was able to get on
the internet and find stuff. So, you know, we can
(41:54):
block stuff. Our kids have to be a certain age
before they get technology, but just be prepared to tell them,
like if someone tries to show you something, it's okay.
Like turn around. You do not have to watch it.
If it makes you feel uncomfortable or you're worried about
someone finding out, then that's a sign from the Holy
Spirit that God is telling you. So prepare them because
(42:15):
they will come across those things and then also let
them give them a way out. We always said, if
you're at a friend's house and if there's a movie
that they want to watch or something, a video or
something on social media that you don't feel comfortable with, say,
let me call and ask my mom about that. And
then they would call. So we knew if one of
our kids called and said, hey, mom, can I watch
(42:38):
this or do this or see this? We would say
no because we knew if they were calling, they did
not feel comfortable with it, and then they would say, oh,
my mom said no. And so we would get those calls. Nope.
You can't. And so I didn't even have to ask
questions like, well, what is it? I just knew if
they were calling it was a no because they felt
uncomfortable and I was giving them a way out of it.
S3 (42:59):
Yeah, yeah. And I think it's important that parents also
equip their children with why. Why is this a bad idea?
Why do we do this in our home? What does
the Bible say about this? Why why why? Because as
our kids are developing and they're wanting answers, they're they're
thinking more complex. Like I noted earlier in the program,
(43:19):
this is a great time to start equipping them with
the whys so that they can start to build on
those whys and come up with their own convictions and
their own way of doing things. That's built on that
same foundation that we've been trying to give them all along.
S5 (43:34):
Well, the book is filled with ideas, good ideas on
how to communicate to pre-teens and help them grow in
their relationship with God. But can we guarantee the outcome
of our kids if we just do the right things?
S2 (43:50):
Don't we wish? Don't we wish we can guarantee the outcomes? Um, and,
you know, having ten kids, I wish I could say
every single one of them has always made a good choice. And.
But there's been some really hard seasons, um, with, with
some of our kids. And I remember praying for them
through praying for them and with them if they allow me,
(44:11):
sometimes they wouldn't allow me. But through some of the seasons,
and just like going before God and it was like
it wasn't like a verbal thing, but the Holy Spirit
really spoke to my heart. That answered prayer isn't a
quick fix, and I think we often want quick fixes,
whether it's something they're dealing with when they're pre-teens, when
they're teens afterwards. We want the quick fix. We want
things fixed now, but when we're diligent in praying for
(44:33):
them and loving them, in reaching out to them and
continuing to read the Bible even if they're rolling their
eyes at us. Um, those answered prayers. We can see
them down the road. And I'm. I'm so thankful. And
some of my kids lives, I've been able to see that. Um,
and and, God, you know, we just have to be faithful. Like,
we can't guarantee anything, ever. But we just have to
be faithful in doing what God has called us to do. Mhm.
S3 (44:54):
Yeah. I totally agree with that. I, I actually had
a friend of mine who wrote on Facebook several years ago,
he was just sharing something that he had learned in
his own devotions. But he, he noted how, where the
Bible says that Paul planted, Apollos watered, but God gave
the increase. Just recognizing that we may be in a
season of planting or watering, but we can trust that
(45:18):
God is going to do what God is going to
do at the end of the day. We have got
to just learn to trust God. Parenting is a very, very,
very long term job, and you don't often see that
you're being successful in it because at any given moment,
you know, everything could turn upside down. And they can
they can just make really foolish decisions. And you can too.
(45:41):
But trusting God and allowing God to use that faith
building in your own life will grow you a lot.
Like Trisha said, we are just called to be faithful,
to do what God has called us to do every
step of the way, and then to trust that the
Lord will give the increase.
S5 (45:59):
Yeah. You know, I sometimes encounter couples in my office
whose adult children are are sometimes older teenagers are making
very poor decisions, you know, and they say to me,
what did we do wrong? That our child would do
this or our child would do that? And I say, well,
you know, if you realize you made mistakes, then fine,
let's apologize to them. But don't assume that you're responsible
(46:24):
for the older your older child's mistakes or things that
they do. I said, listen, God's first two children went
wrong and they had a perfect father. Adam and Eve.
And they made a very, very poor decision that's affected
all of us. So I think there's always two sides
for all of us. We're none of us are perfect.
And yes, we should apologize to our preaching preteens, teens
(46:48):
or older adults if we realize that we have done
something wrong because they need to learn how to apologize too,
because they're not going to be perfect either. So we're
really teaching them something that's important. But don't put yourself
down and condemn yourself, you know, because of what the
decisions that your children make. So and I think also
(47:09):
letting them suffer the consequences. You know, when they do
make a mistake rather than trying to, you know, remove
the consequences. Well, listen, I want to thank both of you,
Tricia and Leslie, for being with us today and and
for writing this book, because I think it's going to
be very helpful to parents of pre-teens in particular. Thanks
for what you've done. And I pray that God will
(47:30):
use not only the program, but he'll use this book
in the minds and hearts of many parents. Thank you.
S2 (47:36):
Thank you so much, Gary.
S4 (47:39):
A featured resource again at Building Relationships is Faith that
Sticks five Real Life Ways to Disciple Your Pre-Teen. It's
by Tricia Goyer and Leslie Nunnery, who've joined us today. Again,
just go to building relationships to find out more.
S5 (47:57):
And if you have a prodigal child in your life,
don't miss the conversation next week.
S1 (48:03):
Hear encouragement about a parent's battle plan in one week.
A big thank you to our production team. Janice backing
and Steve Wick. Building relationships with Doctor Gary Chapman is
a production of Moody Radio in association with Moody Publishers,
a ministry of Moody Bible Institute. Thanks for listening.
If you're the parent of a Pre-teenager, don't miss Today's
Building Relationships with Doctor Gary Chapman.
S2 (00:06):
If you have pre-teens, you think that they're not listening,
they're not paying attention. But just keep going because those
are seeds that you are planting.
S3 (00:14):
With all the pressures that our kids are dealing with now.
God still will lead each individual parent to engage with
each individual child, and I think that's incredibly hopeful.
S1 (00:28):
Welcome to building relationships with Doctor Gary Chapman, author of
The New York Times best seller The Five Love Languages. Well,
the preteen years are hard for parents and kids. How
can you navigate the complexities of today's world with grace
and love? That's what we'll talk about straight ahead.
S4 (00:45):
And we have two guests for you. Tricia Goyer and
Leslie Nunnery. They've teamed to write today's featured resource. Faith
that sticks. Five Real-Life Ways to Disciple Your Preteen. Just
go to building relationships to find out more. And Gary,
I know you have a heart for parents who are
right in the middle of raising pre-teenagers.
S5 (01:07):
I do indeed. I remember I wrote a book some
years ago called things I Wish I'd Known Before Our
Children Became Teenagers. So I'm excited about this topic, and
I think our listeners will be and I think this
book is going to help them. So yeah, it's great.
I'm great to have Tricia and Leslie with us today.
S4 (01:29):
Let me introduce them. Tricia Goyer is a speaker, podcast host,
USA today bestselling author of more than 90 books. She
writes fiction and nonfiction. She's a wife, a homeschooling mom
of ten, and mentors writers from little Rock, Arkansas. Leslie Nunnery,
her co-author, is co founder of Teach Them Diligently. She's
(01:50):
a mom of four. She inspires Christian parents to embrace
biblical discipleship and intentional parenting. Together, they've written Faith That sticks.
Five Real Life Ways to Disciple Your Pre-Teen. We haven't
looked at the website building relationships.
S5 (02:08):
Well, Tricia, I want to know, first of all, how
can you write 90 books?
S4 (02:11):
Yes.
S2 (02:13):
You know, a little bit every day. It's actually it's
actually my break from my kids. It's like, sorry, kids,
I have to go work on this book right now.
S5 (02:20):
So. Well, good for you, girl. I'm impressed. Well, what
inspired the two of you to write this book? Faith
that sticks. And why did you feel this book was
so important for today's parents?
S2 (02:33):
Yeah, I will jump in with that. So I am
blessed to be one of the speakers at the conference
that Leslie and her husband David, run. And when we're there,
we get to talk with a lot of parents. We
interact with them at the booths. And there was lots,
you know, books for teen parents of teenagers and little kids.
But there's a lot of questions coming up about pre-teens.
(02:53):
Leslie and I both get those questions. And really, it's
that time when you have this sweet little kid that
they love, the read out loud, they love sitting with you,
they love going on walks, and suddenly they might be
dressing weird. They're rolling their eyes. They're they're changing before you.
And all the worries and the fears start coming up
in parents. And so Leslie and I really were just
(03:14):
wanting to encourage parents and assure them that they're not
going to lose their kids. In fact, they can really
press in, and this time can be a really great
time to disciple them and draw them closer to God.
S5 (03:27):
Well, talk about the word discipling. Uh, that's almost a
lost art in today's world. What is the concept of
discipling and how does it apply to pre-teens?
S3 (03:38):
Um, I am I always love to talk about discipleship.
Discipleship essentially is leveraging what God has taught you on
behalf of someone else. And so in context of a
family that is parents particularly Leveraging the things that God
has taught them through the years and in their morning
time with God on behalf of helping their children learn
(04:01):
it earlier. Avoid the mistakes they made. Really just getting
in and pointing your children towards Jesus day by day. Um,
and so as parents, we have just an incredible opportunity
to go for the hearts of our children, and then
we have a front row seat to see how God
is working in their lives day by day, which honestly
can be a little scary as well as exciting because
(04:23):
we see all the stumbles and missteps just as or
along with all of the good things that God's doing.
S5 (04:30):
Yeah. Well, what did each of you learn while writing this,
that that maybe you wished you had known before when
you were parenting preteens?
S2 (04:39):
Well, the funny thing is, I'm just getting out of
the pre-teen years. Our oldest is 35 and we have
three biological, and we have adopted seven kids and our
youngest is 14. So I am still I feel like
right there. And I just had a conversation the other
night at dinner with a, um, a therapist. She's a
trauma therapist. And because we adopted kids from foster care,
(05:00):
there's some trauma stuff, and I'm like, I don't know
what to do. I just feel like I'm not connecting
with my 14 year old son. He just wants to argue.
And I went into this and she's like, that's all
14 year old boys. That's not just it's not trauma.
And I'm like, I just wrote a book on this.
Like I just wrote a book, and I'm like, I
need to go back and read my book. And the
(05:20):
advice I gave. And because I think we, we think
that it's just our kid and we're doing something wrong
and there's all these problems coming. But really it is
that reminder which I'm still reminding myself daily, like, this
is the time they kind of want to figure out
life themselves. They want to try things out. You know, parents, um,
might not, they think might not have all the answers.
(05:42):
Let me see what's out there. But of course, we
know we have God's truth. We have prayer. We have
these things that we're going to talk about. But it's
just a reminder. I'm still reminding myself that it's going
to be okay. This is a normal part of having
kids this age.
S3 (05:57):
Well, yeah, and I think that Tricia kind of alluded
to it, but there's so much fear that pops into
the heart and mind of a parent during this time.
And I certainly struggled. I talk in the book about
how there were times, especially with my boys, where I
almost became paralyzed with fears because I was so afraid
and so aware of the things that were coming at them.
(06:17):
And I, I knew they were high value targets to
the enemy. Um, and so one thing that I really
wish that I had known, that I found out in
researching for this book is all of the physiological and
emotional and developmental changes that are going on in them,
because I think that sometimes a lot of times, probably,
I mis assessed what was going on and it made
(06:39):
me like freak out and get so scared when actually
it's it's a normal brain development thing that's leading to,
you know, hormone rushes or emotional and instability. It's a
and normal insecurity that that I had the privilege of
helping them work through and pointing them to Jesus and
helping them understand their fearfully and wonderfully made. And instead
(07:01):
of knowing all of that and seizing those moments, I'm
afraid that I may have have allowed that fear to
to make me react poorly or not react at all
in situations where I had a great opportunity to help
my kiddos.
S5 (07:14):
Yeah, well, those are lessons I hope that people are
listening to us today are going to get a taste of.
And I hope that this I know this book is
going to help them, because what you're sharing is what
many of us felt at that stage of parenting. Uh,
why is the pre-teen stage such a critical time for
discipleship and faith development?
S3 (07:37):
I alluded a second ago to the development that's going
on inside our kids brains, and during this time, they
are getting the the ability to think more abstractly. We
joke all the time that, you know, we've gone from
black and white to various shades of gray, but that's
that's really true. They're able to to take things that
(07:57):
aren't necessarily black and white, and they're starting to to
put pieces together and connect the dots on things. They're
getting a much more mature way of thinking. And so
all of those lessons that they learned while they were little,
the accounts from Scripture, the the songs, the things that
we were so diligent to teach them. Now we have
the opportunity during this pre-teen stage to help them take
(08:21):
that a little further, to see how they connect those
dots with their real life today, to see how Jesus's
love for them and others around them impacts the way
that they make choices. And so, just by virtue of
the way that they are developing, if we are intentional
in in the way that we are approaching them and
building relationships with them and discipling shepherding their hearts, We
(08:45):
will have an amazing opportunity to disciple and help them
form a faith that really is truly their own, and
that will stick with them for the rest of their lives,
because we're giving them a really solid foundation to build
it on.
S2 (08:58):
Yeah, and I think too, I will add in there. So,
you know, having older kids really helped me as I
continue to go through these pre-teen years because I realized, like,
even when it seems like they weren't paying attention, maybe
we weren't doing as much Bible study like we were
because we were getting basketball or different things in. But
we were we were trying, you know, making sure that
(09:19):
we're at least doing something, even if it seems like
they're not paying attention or they're like, oh, we have
to read this again. It all matters when they get
to be adults. I realize, like, oh, they were listening
or oh, they did incorporate that into their life. Um,
and so when we adopted kids, actually four of them
that we adopted were ages 11, 13 year old twins
(09:39):
and a 15 year old when they moved into our home.
And they go from first a really hard environment to
being in foster care for five years to all of
a sudden they're in our house and I'm like, we're
going to homeschool and we're going to read God's Word
every day, and we're going to pray, even if it's
just one sentence, everyone's going to pray and they're just like,
where have we landed? Like, you know, like it was
(10:01):
like Mars to them. But because I had older kids
and I had, like, realized like even it seems like
they're not paying attention or they really don't want to
do it. Just continue on. And I would say, you know,
just put your head down. You just, you know, I'm
going to read the Bible. Just we're all going to
do this. This is going to be something we're going
to do. They weren't interested. They didn't seem like they
(10:23):
were paying attention at all. And years later, they'll say,
remember when you said that? Remember when you talked about that?
I remember we talked about David and how emo emotional
he was. He was like, I am but a worm,
not a man. And they just thought that was hilarious.
And they will bring that up. Like, I'm being really emotional,
just like David. I am but a worm and I'm like,
(10:44):
it matters. And so I just really want to encourage.
If you have pre-teens, know that you think that they're
not listening, they're not paying attention, but just keep going
because those are seeds that you are planting.
S5 (10:57):
Tricia, you mentioned earlier the mood swings, the eye rolls
and those kind of things. Uh, you deal with those
topics in the book and and more, of course. And
you recall your own journeys. Uh, was it difficult to
remember that what life was like as a pre-teen?
S2 (11:17):
I think we always forget how hard it is to
be a kid, and to feel like we don't even
really know ourselves. I think that pre-teen age is they
don't know, like, do I like this kind of music?
Do I like this kind of clothes? Maybe I want
my hair this way. They're just trying to figure out
where they fit in the world. When I was a pre-teen,
(11:37):
I thankfully my my family moved near a library and
I discovered books like I and I became engrossed in
reading and books, and I'm so thankful for that. But
I remember looking back, I'm like, why did I wear
wear those clothes? Or why did I have my hair
that way? And it really is. You were just trying
to figure out who you are. And so I think
sometimes when our kids act a certain way, may wear
(12:01):
clothes or I remember my oldest daughter when she was
a pre-teen, all of a sudden want to wear dark
eye makeup like she just barely started wearing makeup, and
now she wants to do dark eye makeup. And I'm like,
oh my goodness, she's going to go gothic or all
these things. She is not. She's a missionary now like
she is. She is fine. She she dresses normal, but
they're just trying to figure out who they are. And
(12:23):
we forget that. We forget like we were doing the
same thing. I was in the 80s with the big hairspray,
hair sticking up everywhere. I mean, we're just trying to
figure out who we are.
S5 (12:33):
Yeah.
S3 (12:34):
Yeah, I, I actually remember sitting on a plane as
we were kind of finishing this book up, and I
guess because I was bored on a plane, I started
thinking about that, like, what was it really like? And
one of the thoughts that the Lord struck me with
at that point was, you really should have thought about
this when you were raising pre-teens. That would have been
really helpful. But because, you know, during my pre-teen years,
(12:56):
we moved several times different states all over the place.
I was constantly having to make new friends. I was
super shy at the time and just it was very
awkward and very difficult. But what really stands out more
than anything for me personally, is that despite a lot
of upheaval, despite I can echo the 80s stuff and
(13:19):
all the things the bad looks that Tricia was talking
about did all of those things. But when I kind
of got past that and I looked back, I realized
that my parents navigated that magnificently. I think that that
had a huge impact on the way that I then
shepherded my children through that without me knowing, you know,
(13:41):
any of the stuff that I know now from writing
the book, just kind of doing the next thing, taking
the next step helped. My sister and I walk through
those difficult years without crashing and burning like so many do.
You know, you hear about the statistics and we have
some of this in the book, too. That middle school,
that pre-teen time is really, really hard on kids nowadays.
(14:03):
The pressures, just the emotions. It's much more intense than
anything that we would have experienced growing up. And so
just staying engaged with them, like my parents did with me,
that's really one of the things God just just really
impressed on my heart. And I went to my parents
and thanked them because I doubt that I ever had before.
But but just I found such hope in that recognizing,
(14:26):
you know, God's plan for families is so beautiful, and
he gives parents wisdom as they just do the next thing.
Just pray the next prayer. Engage in the next conversation.
And so even in those crazy, crazy years, with all
the pressures that our kids are dealing with now, God
still will lead each individual parent to engage with each
(14:47):
individual child. And I think that's incredibly hopeful.
S5 (14:50):
I certainly would agree with that. Now, you say that
there are five key areas that provide a roadmap for
parents who feel overwhelmed or unequipped. Tell us those five
areas and why are they so important?
S3 (15:05):
I'll start with the first three and then let Tricia
come in with the last couple. Um, and honestly, all
of the five that we have in there are are easy. They're,
they're things that make a lot of common sense to do.
But it's really in the follow up. It's in how
you apply and how you actually start doing these within
your homes that you see great changes. So the first
(15:26):
three are prayer, Bible reading and family relationships. Prayer is
something that you've you've probably done together since they were
very young. It's, you know, you say your prayers around
the table. A lot of times families will will take
prayer requests and pray together or praises and pray together
during family devotions. And that is something that as your
kids are getting to be pre-teens, you have the opportunity
(15:47):
to really train them, um, to go even deeper in
the way that they are praying. You're able to to
use that time to engage with them and let them
know that you care about the things that matter to them. Um,
that's a very easy way to to really, um, allow
prayer to to strengthen relationships honestly. And then, of course,
(16:08):
parents should be praying for their children very, very strategically.
In the back of our book, there is a list
of scriptures that you can pray for your children that
I did the whole time my kids were growing up.
But very strategic ways that you can pray scripture for
your children and then allow the Lord to lead you
as he answers those prayers, give you opportunities, give you
the words to say. It's pretty amazing when you're praying
(16:30):
for your kids, how God will lead you. So first
is prayer, second is Bible reading. And that's something that
I think a lot of people make too hard. They
they overthink it. Uh, Bible reading together is really just
that you don't have to to get so hung up
on family devotions, having a perfect program and a perfect
cadence to it. Um, a lot of times for our family,
(16:52):
we would just read a psalm and then discuss it.
So Bible reading together is really important, but also how
you're modeling for your kids that you're in God's word,
that your spouse is in God's Word, that you all
are growing and changing. Because again, like I said at
the beginning, discipleship is leveraging what God is teaching you
on behalf of the other of someone else. And so
(17:12):
you're able to leverage the fact that you're in God's
Word every day to bring your kids along and help
them form that relationship, too. That's one of the things
that God gave me as an idea when the kids
were really, really young. And again, it came through praying scripture.
I prayed that they would know God's Word. And so
the Lord just started prompting me to talk to my
(17:33):
very little kids at breakfast. What God had shown me
in my devotions that morning. So I just started telling
him every day. Well, as the years progressed, I realized
that first of all, the only Christians that my kids
saw in the morning were me and David, and they
would get up and see both of us in God's Word.
So to my kids, that's what Christians did. So it
(17:53):
actually became easier for them to start building the habit
of getting God's Word every day, because it was introduced
at a very young age. Now, not to say that
any of us are perfect, however, we were whetting their
appetite for that. And so then they started talking about
what they were reading in their devotions as well. And
so Bible reading became just really part of the fabric
(18:16):
of our home. And it just started with God answering
that prayer and giving one little idea that I had
no idea how consequential that little idea was going to be.
So you've got prayer, Bible reading and then family relationships,
just really prioritizing time with your kids, time as a family,
coming up with those, those special traditions and things that
(18:40):
you do that show. This is the culture of our family.
This is where you belong. This is where you are
loved unconditionally. Those relationships go an awful long way towards
giving your kids the stability and helping them to combat
the insecurity that comes at them during this time, but
it also gives you a great platform to disciple them
(19:03):
and to help them build that faith that sticks.
S2 (19:06):
Yeah, and I'll just jump in with conversations. You know, um,
we always often want to sit down and just look
our kids in the eye and say, what did you
learn today? Or how was your day? And they're like, fine,
nothing like they it's it's hard for them to connect.
And so really when we're going on a ride in
the car, I'll do errands and take one of my kids,
and we'll stop and get a smoothie. We might talk
(19:27):
for 30 minutes about whatever video game they like, the
baseball score from last night, whatever. The last five minutes
as we're going home. The important thing will come up.
Or at 11:00 at night, the important thing will come
up because they're finally, like, connected with us. And really,
conversation is that connection. First, like Leslie was saying, with relationships,
(19:48):
when we're doing life together, when we're having fun together,
when they trust that we're listening to them, when we're
not looking at our phones, um, they will have those conversations.
But it takes a build up. It's not going to
be immediately like, sit down, look at me and tell
me all your deepest, darkest fears and secrets like that.
That's not how preteens work. Um, so we really want
to have that side by side time and then service.
(20:11):
For years, my kids, I helped start a crisis pregnancy center.
My older kids, they were there with us. Um, my
husband and I led children's church for many years. They
were there with us as we adopted kids. I, um,
supported teen moms. I took my girls, pre-teen girls, and
they helped babysit. They helped do meals for these teen moms,
and it's just showing that this is what we do
(20:33):
and we're serving together. They meet other great Christian men
and women who are serving and becomes part of who
they are. And when they're used to serving in church,
they're more engaged. It's not something you show up to
to be entertained. It's something you're part of, to care
for others. And that really makes a big difference.
S5 (20:50):
Hmm. Yeah. That conversation reminds me of the time when
mine were pre-teens and you mentioned it and you alluded
to it often. They want to talk and it's late
at night. It's their bedtime. And I remember, yes, they
asked questions and I just started sitting down on the floor,
(21:11):
you know, and walking to the bed and all. And
we prayed and all. But they bring up something. And
I just realized, okay, they're bringing it up. This is
the time to talk about it, because they may not
bring it up tomorrow, you know, or they may not
bring it up in a week. But if it's on
their minds, we need to be open to the conversations,
that's for sure. Well, can each of you share, uh,
(21:31):
like a real life example of that you outlined in
the book on, uh, how to disciple, uh, pre-teens? Can
you think of one real life example from each of you?
S3 (21:45):
Well, I can tell you kind of lopping back to
the conversation arena there. There are several times that I
remember jumping to just the worst possible conclusion, like I
would I would see something going on. The Lord would
really prick my heart that I needed to focus in
on one of my kids, and I would make assumptions
(22:06):
and then often act on those assumptions, you know, like
I as if it were true. But I found that
when I would step back and I would feel like
the Lord was saying, this child really needs your attention now.
And I would do something special with that child that
often through asking questions, um, I would I would realize
(22:29):
that more often than not, what I was dealing with
was either immaturity or, I mean just honestly foolishness and
not a deep seated, you know, black hole of sin.
Like I had convinced myself that it was. But it
took slowing down and taking the time to ask questions.
(22:50):
David and I have reminded each other a lot through
the years that questions prick the conscience, but accusations harden
the will, and so we try really hard when we're
going into conversations with our kids to try to get
to the bottom of what's really going on in their
heart and mind, because I found, especially with pre-teens, a
(23:11):
lot of times they don't know, like, and I, I,
I feel like it's especially boys. It's like their head
is disconnected from their body. There is no there's no
reason going into what they do. And so by posing
questions to just help them to start making connections for themselves,
it's a lot of times that you'll find that what's
(23:32):
going on is not really anything to fear. It's something
that you can coach them through. It was maybe a
really dumb thing to do, but it's not as bad
as what you were bracing for. Whereas if I allowed
myself to make those assumptions and then act as if
there's this deep sin problem and they're probably walking away
(23:55):
from the faith and I'm going to lose them, and
all of these things that Satan wants to whisper in
your head, you know, like, ah, you're just the anxiety
riles up. If you react in that way, you actually
just escalate the problem, and you very rarely get to
what's really at the heart of it. And as a parent,
we want to get to the heart of what's going
on so that we can shepherd them through it. So
(24:17):
just taking the time to ask questions and go for
the heart of the matter is one of those things
that I have found time after time after time after
time was incredibly valuable in my parenting career.
S2 (24:31):
Yeah, and I'm going to jump in. I was the
thing that came to my mind kind of goes with that. Um,
because in today's world, you'll often hear things, hear them
say things like, I don't want to have this conversation.
One example that I give in the book, and she
gave me permission to share. This is one of our
pre-teen daughters that we adopted, and she came up one
day as I'm cooking dinner and said, I think I'm bisexual.
(24:53):
And I'm like, no, you're not. She goes, why would
you say that? I'm like, I see you. I see
you checking out boys all the time. Like, but then,
like Leslie was saying, ask a question. Why would you
say that? And she said, well, I think girls are pretty.
And I said, well, all girls think girls are pretty.
And she's like, really? I'm like, you look at someone
at church and think, she looks really pretty today. That
(25:14):
doesn't mean anything. Like it's like you want to become
sexually active with that person. We all notice those things,
but then continue to like look into it. So what
we discovered is that they had an older sister that
had aged out of foster care, and a friend of
that older sister had got her number and was messaging
her inappropriate messages. Our pre-teen daughter, this older girl, was
(25:37):
messaging her inappropriate messages that we were able to stop, block,
take care of. But if I would have just been like,
the Bible says this, and we're going to sit down
and we're going to have a very serious conversation, she
probably would have pushed back. Yeah, but just asking questions,
being curious, not letting your jaw drop like it's just
like an everyday conversation as I'm cutting this onion right now,
(25:59):
you know, it really took away some of the the angst.
I think that was in both of us. But also
then later, years later when another one of your younger
sisters mentioned it, she said, no, you're not. She goes
like mom said, all girls think girls are pretty. And
that girl, that sister goes, okay. And that was like,
(26:19):
I'm so thankful. It must have been the Holy Spirit
that said that. Because, yeah, sometimes we get so stressed
out and we need to sit down and have, like,
they know what God's Word said, you know? Yeah. We
just didn't have these conversations without really making them feel
like we are speaking and and just shooting all this
scripture at them that they are feeling like they have
to be defensive.
S5 (26:40):
Yeah. That's excellent. Asking further questions whenever they bring up
a topic that might put you into shock is certainly
the most positive thing you can do.
S1 (26:54):
You're listening to the Building Relationships with Doctor Gary Chapman podcast.
Our guests today are Lesley Nunnery and Tricia Goyer, authors
of the book Faith That Sticks five Real Life Ways
to Disciple Your Pre-Teen. Find out more@5.com. That's five love languages.
S5 (27:13):
Well, we all know that there's power in stories, and
you all have a number of stories in the book,
and you're also vulnerable about mistakes and missteps that you made.
Share a little of your own personal parenting experiences, where
perhaps you look back and realize there was a mistake
there or a misstep there.
S3 (27:32):
I have a real problem, even to this day. I
try so hard to overcome it, but I have a
real problem of wanting to step in and fix things
for people and to make everything right. And so I
remember one time in particular, my oldest son, who, bless
his heart, just like all oldest kids, are the guinea
pig and get the get all, I get all my
(27:53):
experience on him. But I remember when he was a pre-teen,
it just seemed like he was so awkward and he
had no friends, and my heart just went out for
him and I was going to fix that for him.
And so I bless my heart, I came up with
this brilliant idea to have a sleepover for him and
(28:14):
these guys in his class. I invited everybody because I
was going to make this thing just great, and he
was going to be just full of friendships and it
was going to be awesome. And, um, it was not awesome.
It was horrifying in most every way. You get that
many ten, 11, 12 year old boys together and they
destroy things and they dislike each other. And it's just
(28:35):
it was just craziness. Um, but God taught me a
lot through that. First of all, the evening was miserable.
I got scratches on my walls and all kinds of stuff.
It was just a crazy night, but I realized I
never once asked him whether that was something that he wanted.
I just decided I was going to fix it for him.
I was going to put him in a position where
(28:56):
he could make good friends, and never even thinking that
maybe guys are different than girls, and they don't engage
the same way that girls do. Or maybe he's still
growing up and he needs time to mature into friendships
or any of those things. I just really, I guess
it kind of boils down to I want in my
own way, I wanted him to have this, this picture
(29:20):
perfect friendship that I had in my head. And so
I did everything that I could to orchestrate it. And
God taught me a pretty valuable lesson that day. It
was it was not pretty.
S5 (29:30):
Yep, yep. We learned. Often learned by our mistakes and missteps. Yes. Tricia,
does something come to your mind?
S2 (29:39):
Absolutely. Well, I'm trying to pick which one, because I'm.
S5 (29:42):
I'm multiple things.
S2 (29:43):
But the beginning of the book, we actually have, before
we get to the actual five ways, we talk about
two things. We talk about, um, technology, social media, all
that type of thing. And we also talk about anger
and emotions, because when we were speaking at conferences, those
were the things that people were asking us specifically about
with pre-teens. So for me, when they want to do
(30:04):
something and I'm like, on my phone, that's right away.
The first thing that came to mind. But going even
deeper than that, when we have kids that are getting angry,
they're upset about something. Suddenly I'm upset and saying, don't
talk to me that way. That's disrespectful. And then jumping
immediately to consequences like, you can't have television tonight or what?
(30:25):
You can't go to that friend's house instead of looking
and see why they're getting angry. Um, I would just
give consequences until we started, like going to therapy, especially
trauma therapy. And the therapist is like, well, why? Why
are they getting angry? I'm like, I don't, I don't know.
And she also said, when they're angry and you're jumping
straight to consequences, you're not getting to the heart of it.
(30:48):
And if you're raising your voice, suddenly they're a victim.
So so first of all, they're mad. Then you raise
your voice and then all of a sudden they're a victim.
So not only are they not able to talk about
what's going on, suddenly you're the bad guy and their
they're a victim. And then this is a bad cycle.
And so she's like, so when you stay calm you win.
(31:09):
And so I'm she's like, don't raise your voice. Don't
follow them to your room. Don't give them consequences. You
stay calm and you can help regulate them. You can
be there when they're ready to talk about it. You
can ask questions. And so for me, I was never
I never thought of myself as an angry person. And
it's not like I was like screaming and yelling, but
(31:29):
my voice would raise, I would give consequences. I would
be upset about the way they were treating me. And
so really and I remember clearly we have upstairs with
the kids rooms were upstairs, and as they're stomping upstairs,
I'd be standing at the bottom. If I stay calm,
I win. If I stay calm, I win. And just
like letting them go. And then later going up, you know,
it might be two hours later like, hey, what was
(31:51):
that about? And after they've calmed down, regulated themselves, then
we can have the conversation because in the moment it
doesn't help anybody.
S5 (31:59):
Yeah. No, you're exactly right. That great advice. Learn from
your situation. This is something we haven't talked about yet.
How important is it to have Mom and Dad on
the same page? And then what do you do if
you find yourselves disagreeing on some aspect of raising raising
the pre-teen?
S3 (32:21):
Hmm. It's really difficult if you're not on the same page.
And sadly, that's the story in a lot of homes.
Both Tricia and John and David and I do a
lot of counseling and mentoring with parents. And it's it's
really important that you understand what God has called you
to do and that you you pray together and work
(32:45):
together to get on the same page as to how
he wants you to do it. So, um, in in
a perfect world, we would all be on the same page, um,
because it does make it so much easier to disciple
your your children cohesively to model for them what you
know life should look like. You know all of these things.
God's given us this great blueprint for how to do it.
(33:07):
We are, however, flawed people. Um, and so that there
there will be a lot of times when you're going
to disagree about specifics, even if you have a, a
cohesive big picture view. Um, and so I would just
encourage you to be very careful that you are not
disagreeing in front of everyone. David and I worked really
hard to take our disagreements elsewhere, so that we could
(33:31):
try to talk it through, to get more on the
same page, or to at least come to a resolution
on those things. Kids being as insightful and perceptive as
they are, can always tell when there's dissension there, and
most of them will take advantage of that. And I
don't blame them. I would too. So just trying to
(33:53):
to at least take the time as a couple to
Separate yourself from a situation that you may not have
the same approach on, to discuss and pray through, and
kind of look at it in context of what God
has called you to do holistically, and then trying to
deal with that specific thing. From there, I would just
(34:13):
really encourage parents not to sit there and disagree about
how to deal with the situation right there in front
of the child, because that really puts that kid in
a in a rough situation. But it also undermines your
authority in their lives because you guys are are kind
of wobbly on it too. So I just would encourage
you to kind of step away and try to talk
(34:33):
it through before you present a united front like that
with your children.
S2 (34:39):
Yeah. I have an example from Sunday. So here's my.
S3 (34:43):
Example.
S2 (34:45):
So, so Sunday at church we were a little bit late.
And so our kids were sitting right behind us. So
there wasn't like five seats in a row. So we
were John and I were in one row and they
were right behind us, and I could hear my 17
year old whispering to her brother, um, he's 14. And
so I turn around a couple times and he's on
his phone, which he doesn't have social media or anything,
(35:05):
but there's little games on there. And no, he's not
supposed to be on his phone. He's supposed to be
listening to the sermon. And I looked at him once and,
you know, gave him the look and turned back. A
little while later, he's still on his phone, so I
just took his phone away. I handed it to my husband. Well,
at the end of service, my husband handed him back
and I just looked at him and he must have
seen in my eye. And later when we got home
(35:28):
away from the kids, he's like, did I do something wrong?
I'm like, well, if in that moment I almost felt
like bad cop, good cop, like, mom took your phone away.
But here you go. And I said, next time, like,
you know, I know you were holding it. Just next time.
Maybe if I could just give them back. And he's like, okay.
And it was like, that was it. I wasn't mad
at him, but he could tell I like, tensed up
on that when he handed the phone back. And he's like, okay,
(35:50):
that makes sense. It was that simple. It wasn't. Yeah.
I Yeah. I didn't blow up in church, you know,
but it was that simple that he didn't realize that
if I felt like being the bad cop and he
was the good cop because he was the one that
gave the phone back.
S5 (36:02):
Yeah, yeah, we will have differences, no question about that.
But yeah, what you, each of you have described is
how to handle those differences so that we're not communicating
to the pre-teen. You know we disagree on this. You know.
And now you all have talked about the value of
conversations and the role they play in discipling pre-teens. How
(36:24):
can parents make them these conversations more meaningful?
S2 (36:28):
I will add one thing that I think has really
helped with conversations is me kind of sharing the ways
I've messed up, whether it's, um, something that I'm struggling
with currently and how God's working in my heart, or
as a teenager or a pre-teen, things that I wish
I would have had done differently. I think sometimes they
might see, like, we're just always feel like we have
(36:50):
to tell them the right way to do that. And
I think when we share kind of our struggles or things,
mistakes that we made, it helps them pay attention better
because we're not coming to them like we have everything right,
because they know they live with us. We don't do
everything right, and it just gives them that, that place like, okay,
mom's confessing and asking for that forgiveness. When we do
mess up, it really can change those conversations.
S5 (37:11):
Yeah.
S3 (37:12):
Oh for sure. And then it's just learning about what's
important to them. You know, helping them understand that if
they are really into fill in the blanks Mario Kart
or whatever it is during that time, that's something that
was important to me. And so by learning more about
the things that they were interested in, it really opened
(37:35):
the doors for deeper conversations that mattered. So it's just
like with any other relationship, if if you are engaging
with someone and all you ever do is talk about
very serious things or things that are important to you.
That's not always going to be the. Your favorite relationship
to just go hang out with, right. But if you
(37:56):
share things that you like. If you get excited about
the same things that get them excited. And then you're
able to have some deeper conversations mixed in. It's a
very natural conversational environment, and it's also a little bit
disarming for them. So I think that you get a
lot more insight into their heart because they're not putting
up these walls. You're having fun together and they're relaxed.
(38:19):
And so they just talk very naturally, and you get
great insight into what's really going on in their hearts
that way.
S5 (38:25):
Yeah. We talk about teaching biblical truth to our pre-teens,
but if it's just a one way teaching, you know,
like verbalizing biblical truths and all. Uh, how do parents
open the door for those preteens to ask questions or
to express doubts? Uh, in terms of what we're trying
(38:48):
to communicate.
S3 (38:50):
I think that that platform is actually built on a
lot of the stuff that we've talked about before. It's
you have the relationship with them where they feel comfortable
bringing those doubts or questions to you. So you want
to first of all, make sure that you are investing
in a relationship with them. That makes those harder conversations possible.
But then when they do, it's really important that you
(39:13):
respond in a way that shows them that you are
not freaking out. Like I've had my kids ask me
questions that basically curled my toes. But it's in those
moments you're asking God for the grace and the wisdom
to control yourself and to and to respond in a
way that is engaging with them. That's questions are hugely
important there. Find out why they're asking it. Where did
(39:36):
they hear it? What's going on underneath the surface that's
making them think that way. And then you can start
moving on as you're engaging with them to to offering
insights or direction. And sometimes that conversation is going to
be spread across a lot of time. You're going to
have to really, really dive in with them and see
what that struggle is. But you never want to belittle
(39:59):
the struggle, and you also never want to react so
that they're going to recoil and not bring any other
struggles to you or not go deeper into that one
with you. You want to make sure that whatever you do,
you keep that line of communication with your kids open,
because I would much rather be the one that they
bring those hard questions to than anyone else in the world,
(40:19):
because God has entrusted their spiritual development during the time
they're in my home to me, and I want to
shepherd that really, really well.
S2 (40:28):
You know, it was it's during those times when they're
asking those questions, like Leslie says, my husband and he
would often say this, well, how's that working out for them?
They'll say, well, so and so's parents, let them do this,
or so-and-so watches this, or so-and-so believes this or so-and-so
and you're like, how's that working out for them? What
does their life look like? And that really helps kids
to take a look. It's not just like they have
(40:50):
a different opinion, but okay, so and so's parents let
them drink or whatever. Like how how is that showing
up in their life? And I think that really helps
kids to stop and look like, oh, that's not a
good thing. Oh, their parents let them stay up till
2 a.m.. Oh yeah. They're really tired at school or
Sunday school. So instead of just again, you know, preaching
(41:11):
all the time. But I love Leslie brought this up
to asking really good questions.
S5 (41:15):
Yeah. What about the whole area of technology, social media?
You know, our kids are just flooded with input all
around them. How do you disciple a pre-teen in today's
world of technology?
S2 (41:31):
I think it's important to know that they are going
to see stuff, and they are going to be around stuff,
even if it's not from us in our home. Um,
I remember the first time one of our kids, they
came and said something they saw because they were at
the neighbor's house. The neighbor kid had the the mom's
phone that had, you know, was able to get on
the internet and find stuff. So, you know, we can
(41:54):
block stuff. Our kids have to be a certain age
before they get technology, but just be prepared to tell them,
like if someone tries to show you something, it's okay.
Like turn around. You do not have to watch it.
If it makes you feel uncomfortable or you're worried about
someone finding out, then that's a sign from the Holy
Spirit that God is telling you. So prepare them because
(42:15):
they will come across those things and then also let
them give them a way out. We always said, if
you're at a friend's house and if there's a movie
that they want to watch or something, a video or
something on social media that you don't feel comfortable with, say,
let me call and ask my mom about that. And
then they would call. So we knew if one of
our kids called and said, hey, mom, can I watch
(42:38):
this or do this or see this? We would say
no because we knew if they were calling, they did
not feel comfortable with it, and then they would say, oh,
my mom said no. And so we would get those calls. Nope.
You can't. And so I didn't even have to ask
questions like, well, what is it? I just knew if
they were calling it was a no because they felt
uncomfortable and I was giving them a way out of it.
S3 (42:59):
Yeah, yeah. And I think it's important that parents also
equip their children with why. Why is this a bad idea?
Why do we do this in our home? What does
the Bible say about this? Why why why? Because as
our kids are developing and they're wanting answers, they're they're
thinking more complex. Like I noted earlier in the program,
(43:19):
this is a great time to start equipping them with
the whys so that they can start to build on
those whys and come up with their own convictions and
their own way of doing things. That's built on that
same foundation that we've been trying to give them all along.
S5 (43:34):
Well, the book is filled with ideas, good ideas on
how to communicate to pre-teens and help them grow in
their relationship with God. But can we guarantee the outcome
of our kids if we just do the right things?
S2 (43:50):
Don't we wish? Don't we wish we can guarantee the outcomes? Um, and,
you know, having ten kids, I wish I could say
every single one of them has always made a good choice. And.
But there's been some really hard seasons, um, with, with
some of our kids. And I remember praying for them
through praying for them and with them if they allow me,
(44:11):
sometimes they wouldn't allow me. But through some of the seasons,
and just like going before God and it was like
it wasn't like a verbal thing, but the Holy Spirit
really spoke to my heart. That answered prayer isn't a
quick fix, and I think we often want quick fixes,
whether it's something they're dealing with when they're pre-teens, when
they're teens afterwards. We want the quick fix. We want
things fixed now, but when we're diligent in praying for
(44:33):
them and loving them, in reaching out to them and
continuing to read the Bible even if they're rolling their
eyes at us. Um, those answered prayers. We can see
them down the road. And I'm. I'm so thankful. And
some of my kids lives, I've been able to see that. Um,
and and, God, you know, we just have to be faithful. Like,
we can't guarantee anything, ever. But we just have to
be faithful in doing what God has called us to do. Mhm.
S3 (44:54):
Yeah. I totally agree with that. I, I actually had
a friend of mine who wrote on Facebook several years ago,
he was just sharing something that he had learned in
his own devotions. But he, he noted how, where the
Bible says that Paul planted, Apollos watered, but God gave
the increase. Just recognizing that we may be in a
season of planting or watering, but we can trust that
(45:18):
God is going to do what God is going to
do at the end of the day. We have got
to just learn to trust God. Parenting is a very, very,
very long term job, and you don't often see that
you're being successful in it because at any given moment,
you know, everything could turn upside down. And they can
they can just make really foolish decisions. And you can too.
(45:41):
But trusting God and allowing God to use that faith
building in your own life will grow you a lot.
Like Trisha said, we are just called to be faithful,
to do what God has called us to do every
step of the way, and then to trust that the
Lord will give the increase.
S5 (45:59):
Yeah. You know, I sometimes encounter couples in my office
whose adult children are are sometimes older teenagers are making
very poor decisions, you know, and they say to me,
what did we do wrong? That our child would do
this or our child would do that? And I say, well,
you know, if you realize you made mistakes, then fine,
let's apologize to them. But don't assume that you're responsible
(46:24):
for the older your older child's mistakes or things that
they do. I said, listen, God's first two children went
wrong and they had a perfect father. Adam and Eve.
And they made a very, very poor decision that's affected
all of us. So I think there's always two sides
for all of us. We're none of us are perfect.
And yes, we should apologize to our preaching preteens, teens
(46:48):
or older adults if we realize that we have done
something wrong because they need to learn how to apologize too,
because they're not going to be perfect either. So we're
really teaching them something that's important. But don't put yourself
down and condemn yourself, you know, because of what the
decisions that your children make. So and I think also
(47:09):
letting them suffer the consequences. You know, when they do
make a mistake rather than trying to, you know, remove
the consequences. Well, listen, I want to thank both of you,
Tricia and Leslie, for being with us today and and
for writing this book, because I think it's going to
be very helpful to parents of pre-teens in particular. Thanks
for what you've done. And I pray that God will
(47:30):
use not only the program, but he'll use this book
in the minds and hearts of many parents. Thank you.
S2 (47:36):
Thank you so much, Gary.
S4 (47:39):
A featured resource again at Building Relationships is Faith that
Sticks five Real Life Ways to Disciple Your Pre-Teen. It's
by Tricia Goyer and Leslie Nunnery, who've joined us today. Again,
just go to building relationships to find out more.
S5 (47:57):
And if you have a prodigal child in your life,
don't miss the conversation next week.
S1 (48:03):
Hear encouragement about a parent's battle plan in one week.
A big thank you to our production team. Janice backing
and Steve Wick. Building relationships with Doctor Gary Chapman is
a production of Moody Radio in association with Moody Publishers,
a ministry of Moody Bible Institute. Thanks for listening.
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