January 4, 2025 • 45 mins
Sexual immorality has devastated the lives of many men and their families. On this first Building Relationships with Dr. Gary Chapman of 2025, you’ll hear a conversation about how men can prepare to fight the battle with lust and sexual impurity. How can men become true victors on the battlefield? No matter your past, you can find freedom. Don’t miss the conversation on Building Relationships with Gary Chapman.
Featured resource: Fight Like a Man: A Bold, Biblical Battle Plan for Personal Purity
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Episode Transcript
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S1 (00:00):
Whether they realize it or not. Men fight in an
unseen spiritual war for purity. Every day on this battlefield,
they can often become blinded to the devastating consequences of
sexual sin. How do you combat the enemy who wants
to destroy the lives of men?
S2 (00:22):
Men are acting like a soldier who's deluded into thinking
that he's on a luxury cruise ship heading to an
exotic resort, when in reality, he's on a Higgins boat
heading for the shores of World War II. Normandy. And
our enemies are fierce, and they're attacking us from every direction.
We need to be ready to fight.
S3 (00:43):
Welcome to building relationships with Doctor Gary Chapman, author of
the New York Times best seller The Five Love Languages Today,
the story of a man who went through some intense
struggles in his youth and then found profound transformation. He
wants to give help and hope for any man who's
trying to overcome sexual sin. And if you go to
the website, you'll see our featured resource today. Fight like
(01:06):
a man.
S1 (01:07):
The subtitle is A Biblical strategy for achieving victory in
the battle for purity. Just go to building relationships us
to find out about that book. And our guest, Emil Esswein. Again,
go to building relationships.us.
S3 (01:22):
Gary, I'm excited for this conversation, especially here at the
beginning of the year, because I think this could be
a reset for a lot of men who have been
stuck in some old patterns for years and maybe even decades.
S4 (01:36):
Well, I think you're right, Chris, and there's no question
about it. This is a major problem in our culture. Many,
many men are struggling in this area. And, you know,
as you begin a new year, it's a great time
to say, okay, God, it's time to change. So I'm
glad about our discussion today and also this book. I
think it's going to help a lot of men.
S3 (01:55):
I do too, and I think that one of the
tricks of the enemy is, the enemy will whisper in
your ear. This is the way it's always going to be.
You'll never change. Don't listen to that voice. Listen to
what Emil Zwein has to say. He's president of Living Waters,
host of the National Bible Bee competition. You may have
seen him there. Co-host of the Living Waters podcast. He
(02:17):
serves as an executive producer of the Way of the
master TV program and multiple Living Waters films. Easy's family
immigrated to the U.S. from Lebanon when he was four
years old, and he and his wife, Rachel, have five children.
If you go to building relationships.us, you'll see his book
Fight Like a man A Biblical Strategy for Achieving Victory
(02:39):
in the battle for purity. Again, go to building relationships.
Dot us.
S4 (02:44):
Well. Easy. Welcome to building relationships, Gary.
S2 (02:47):
What a joy it is to be with you today.
And let me just say, the thing that blows my
mind is the fact that you guys are willing to
tackle the subject. It's not a popular one, but as
you know, it's one that urgently needs to be addressed.
So thank you for having the courage to do that.
And thank you for having me on.
S4 (03:03):
Well, we're glad you're here. And the topic is you're right, very,
very needed. Well, we could spend the whole hour just
on your story. But for those who don't know you
tell us a little bit about your life and how
you became known as easy.
S2 (03:18):
Yeah, well, I was born in Lebanon back in 1975.
You might remember that was kind of the start of
the major civil war that lasted for ten plus years
in Lebanon. And I was born into a maronite family,
which is a part of the Catholic Church. And the
country was so war torn, so devastating. Our parents saw
(03:41):
no future for us there. And so fortunately, a couple
of my uncles had immigrated to the US some years
before us. They got established, started their careers, so they
were able to sponsor us and bring us over. And
I'm sure as as you can probably imagine, it was
quite an adjustment for me. I was about four and
a half years old. So I'm in this new world,
(04:01):
new culture, new language, and I was trying to sort
of adjust to it all. And I had this somewhat
of a kind of soldier chip on my shoulder, if
you would, growing up in, in that war type of atmosphere.
And so from the outset, I just started getting into
a lot of trouble here in the US and ended
up hitting my high school years where I really got
(04:22):
into big trouble, ended up becoming a member of the Crips.
A gang member, got kicked out of two high schools,
tried to commit suicide in front of my family. But
as I'm sure we'll talk about here in a little bit,
the Lord ended up invading my life August 15th, 1991
and and radically transformed me. And so these are the initials.
It's a lot easier to go by those in the
(04:44):
full name, but that's kind of my story in a nutshell.
S4 (04:47):
Well that's powerful. I think there are a lot of
immigrants to our country who can identify with what you're
saying for sure, right?
S2 (04:55):
Yeah.
S4 (04:56):
Well, you know, this book Fight Like a man comes
out of your own experience and your own struggle in
this area of life. What motivated you to write this book?
S2 (05:07):
Yeah. Well, as you heard in my brief testimony there,
you know, I was I was out there lost and
enmeshed in sin in every way imaginable. And a part
of that was, of course, sexual immorality. And when I
came to Christ, I experienced a freedom unlike anything I
had ever known. You know, before I became a Christian,
I had somewhat of a conscience, having had, you know,
(05:28):
that religious background that the things I was involved in
were wrong. But at the same time, I didn't have
the power to overcome them or find victory in them.
And so when I came to know the Lord, it
was just this, the, you know, the new nature kicking
in and this, this power that I experienced over sin,
it was transformational. And after that, you know, after the
(05:49):
Lord had revolutionized my life, I ended up becoming a pastor.
And now I serve as the president of a ministry
called Living Waters. But in those pastoral years especially, I
began to encounter so many men that were entrenched in
this destructive sin of sexual morality and usually through the
gateway of pornography. And, you know, in the preface of
the book, I talk about how necessity and passion are
(06:11):
really the two ingredients that are most needed for a
book to truly have impact. And so the necessity was huge,
and the passion to see men delivered from this sin
really burned in my heart. And so, so that's what
stirred me up. And and, you know, the fact that
so many men feel hopeless in this is something that
(06:31):
gnawed at me because there is hope in Christ and
there is the pathway and possibility for victory. And so
that that really captivated me, and God burdened my heart
for it. And I've been amazed to see the outcome,
even so far, from those that have been impacted by
the book. It debuted on Amazon as the number one
bestseller and the number one new release in its category,
(06:54):
and the response from men that have read it already
has been very encouraging and heartening.
S4 (07:00):
Yeah. That's great. You know, I think anytime we have
gone through an experience like you went through and then
God delivers us, we're motivated to try to help other people.
You know, that's probably why I've spent my life working
with marriage and family, because we had struggles in our
own marriage in those early years.
S2 (07:18):
Absolutely. Yeah. And, you know, and as a as a man,
of course, I, I relate to that. The Lord delivered
me from that realm. But I deal with those temptations
and that lure and that pull. And so I come
alongside men in that and saying, look, I'm I'm a
fellow traveler on this road with you as a sinner
who understands the temptations and the lure and, and there
(07:39):
there is hope and victory in Christ.
S4 (07:41):
Yeah. Yeah. Well, we're talking about purity and using the
word purity in your book. Define. Define the word purity.
S2 (07:48):
Yeah. So purity would be indicative of a life that
has no admixture of compromise and corrupting sin in it. Now,
I'm not talking about a life of perfection or flawlessness,
but a disposition of the heart that says, look, I've
been redeemed. I've been set free. I've been bought with
a price. I no longer belong to myself. I'm the Lord's.
(08:11):
I know positionally I have perfect righteousness in Christ. He's
redeemed me. He set me free. He's clothed me with
that perfect righteousness. But practically I am called to live
in holiness. Practically, I'm called as first Timothy four seven says,
to discipline myself for godliness. I'm called as Second Timothy
222 says to flee youthful lusts. And so it's that
(08:33):
determination as a man recognizing, look, I have the spirit
that raised Jesus from the dead dwelling in me. God
has called me to a life of holiness, and now
I'm going to practically obey him through the strength and
grace that he supplies to flee from this temptation and
lure to indulge in sexual sin, that is, that is
dishonoring to the Lord, that's destructive to those that I
(08:53):
love and that hinders my testimony and witness as an
ambassador of Christ in this world for the gospel. Yeah.
S4 (09:01):
Well, the title of the book is Fight Like a man.
Why did you use the metaphor of a battle?
S2 (09:07):
Yeah, that's a really good question. And and it's because
that's exactly what it is. I mean, Gary, you understand
as a man it's a battle. But the sad thing is,
most men don't recognize that. You know, they're living with
a peacetime mentality. When we need a wartime mentality and
we have enemies, I'm sure we'll get into that. But.
But that's a tragedy. And oftentimes men are acting like
(09:31):
a soldier who's deluded into thinking that he's on a
luxury cruise ship heading for the shores of Bora Bora
to an exotic resort, when in reality he's on a
Higgins boat heading for the shores of World War II. Normandy. And, Gary,
I'm sure you can. You can imagine a man with
that mindset, you know, sauntering off the Higgins boat right
into the midst of the theater of war. Clad in
(09:52):
a bathrobe, some fluffy slippers and a remote control in
his hand, and you and I both know he's going
to get smoked. And so I wanted men to understand
this is a battle, and our enemies are fierce, and
they're attacking us from every direction. We need to be
ready to fight.
S4 (10:08):
What are some of the warning signs that we are
indeed in a spiritual battle in this area, in defeating this,
this temptation?
S2 (10:16):
Yeah, well, I think the lure is the telltale sign, right?
The pull to do that, which is dishonoring and displeasing
in the sight of God. You know, I often tell Christians,
any time you wonder whether or not you should be
doing something that's righteous or that's spiritual, all you have
(10:36):
to do is, is do the opposite of what you're
feeling or are being lured to do. You know, I
don't feel like praying. I don't feel like seeking the Lord.
I don't feel like being in the word. I don't
feel like doing righteousness. You know, that's exactly what you
need to be doing. And so we need to understand that,
you know, that low grade pull toward sin and compromise.
(10:59):
It begins with the with the thought life that begins
with the opportunities to engage in things that we know
we shouldn't engage in. Those are all evidences that we
have enemies, that they're real, that they are seeking to
undermine anything that would bring glory and honor to God.
Because that's why we exist, right? As as the old
(11:19):
confession goes, right to to glorify God and enjoy him forever.
And often we disconnect glorification from obedience. But but they
can't be disconnected. You know, first John says, and this
is love, that we keep his commandments, and his commandments
are not burdensome. So it's this glad obedience that stands
up in the face of these telltale signs that are
(11:42):
seeking again to lead us to dishonor God. I mean,
you could look at the life of job and you
could see what Satan was attempting to do. He wanted
to disprove job. He wanted to destroy him. Well, the
Lord wanted to to establish him and prove him and
strengthen him. And so. So we need to understand that
that those are all again, evidences of of us being
(12:02):
drawn toward spiritual rebellion against the Lord.
S4 (12:06):
Yeah. Will you say that Satan uses like things like discontentment, disbelief,
deification to distract us from the consequences of our sin
and kind of blind us to that? Talk about that, right?
S2 (12:21):
Yeah. Well, you know, Gary, Satan is a is a
one trick pony. There's nothing new about his strategies against
us as God's people. We can go back to Eden
and and see what he did with with Eve there. And,
you know, by, by extension, Adam. He, he, he comes
at them with, with the three pronged approach. And that
is first, discontent. Has God said, you can't eat of
(12:44):
every tree of the garden? In In reality, obviously we
know God had given Adam and Eve access to every
single tree. And not just that, but he told them
they can eat freely of it. There were no limitations given,
but Satan comes in and begins to create discontent. You
can't have it, all right? And suddenly kind of like,
you know, in the Old Testament, in the book of
(13:05):
of Esther with Haman, where it says everything that he
had availed him nothing, just because he couldn't get that
one thing, which was Mordecai bowing before him. Right. So
so he creates this discontentment. Then he hits us with disbelief. No, no, no,
you will not surely die, he said to Eve. You're
not going to die. The consequences for sin that God
(13:25):
says are what they are aren't really what they are.
And he does that with us. He hits us with, no, no, no,
there really won't be ramifications to sexual sin. Well, first
Corinthians 618 tells us that every sin that a man commits,
he does outside of the body, but he who commits
sexual sin sins against his own body. It's set aside
as a distinct sin with radical ramifications. And then finally
(13:49):
he comes in with deification. No, no, no, not just that.
You're not going to die. You will become like God.
Your eyes will be open. You'll know good from evil.
In other words, you'll become autonomous and you'll be the
one to arbitrate what is right and wrong and what
pathway you want to take in terms of morality in
your life. And it's the same thing with us, you know,
(14:11):
he comes at us with that discontent. You can't have
that sexual sin that you want. He hits us with disbelief.
If you do indulge in it, no, don't worry, nothing's
going to happen. And then in essence, you can make
the call on your own life. You're independent. You should
be able to determine what's right and wrong for you.
S4 (14:27):
Yeah, well, I hope that men who are listening to
us today really hear what you're saying, because you're exactly right.
When you said earlier that Satan don't have any new tricks,
that these are the tricks he used way back there with.
With Adam and Eve. Wow.
S2 (14:45):
Absolutely. Yeah. And we need to be. We need to
be ready for those. You know, and that's what I
get into in the book. You know, how can we
then counter those? We need to understand his strategy and
then we need to have a counterattack. Yeah.
S4 (14:57):
What you said at 15 years of age, you were
a gang member involved in drugs. You were living a
destructive lifestyle. What? What really? What were the things that
God used to turn you around?
S2 (15:08):
As I mentioned earlier, I had this sort of built
up tension inside of me that was maybe manifesting in
the form of anger and rebellion, and my pathway was
just leading to massive, massive destruction. And it kept getting
worse and worse. You know, before I came to Christ,
I had this long list of do's and don'ts that
I had formulated in my mind. Things I'd always do,
(15:31):
things I'd never indulge in. And little by little, as
the influence of the world began to set in, all
of that, you know, just kind of became a distant
memory as I began to, to indulge in sin and
and I just. Yeah. Strayed further and further and went
deeper and deeper into rebellion and immorality and and by
(15:51):
God's grace, on August 15th, 1991, I heard the gospel
and its full purity for the first time, that even
though I had rebelled against God, even though I had
sinned in the egregious ways that I had because of
his love for me, because of what Christ did and
his death and resurrection, I can be set free and transformed.
And Gary, I tell you, it was as First Corinthians says,
(16:13):
I was a new creation. The old things had passed away,
everything became new, and it was a realization that salvation
was a free gift. I couldn't earn it, couldn't work
for it. But God would give it to me on
the basis of faith in what he did. And I
just remember that night it was as if though the
scales from my eyes had dropped and I finally understood
(16:33):
what the cross meant. You know, I grew up seeing
it in that church chapel every Sunday, and I understood
intellectually how Jesus died on the cross. But but I
never understood its real essence and power. And so that night,
when I heard God would be willing to set me free,
I placed my faith in him and everything changed the
way I walked, thought, act, and felt. I was literally
(16:54):
a new creation. And. And here I am today with you.
S4 (16:58):
Yeah, well, those of us who are following Christ can
identify with what you're saying for sure. Amen. Well, you know,
I think sometimes when a man is struggling in this
area of life, he tends to focus on I'm talking
about Christians. Now. I've just got to avoid this. I've
got to avoid this. I've got to avoid this. Right.
But but is there a risk in focusing only on
(17:19):
the sin, you know, and just telling yourself, I've got
to stop, I've got to stop.
S2 (17:24):
Yeah. Yeah, absolutely. I'm so glad you brought that point up.
You know, Paul says in Galatians, I say, then walk
in the spirit and you will not fulfill the lusts
of the flesh. And it's important for men to recognize this.
You know, sometimes we want to just put something off,
but you got to put something on, and we need
to put on the Lord Jesus Christ. We need to
recognize that he is the very source of our strength.
(17:47):
He's the very source of our victory over sexual sin.
And so there needs to be this pursuit of the Lord.
You don't just turn away from sin. You turn toward
the Lord, toward your Redeemer. Right? You run the race
with endurance, looking unto Jesus, the author, and the finisher
of our faith. And and so, you know, the problem is, though,
(18:08):
Gary is a lot of men don't develop that spiritual
vitality in their life. They're not pursuing the Lord. They're
living half heartedly consumed with the things of the world
and being influenced by the world because we're very, very
impressionable and the world is very influential. It's like a
rock coming up against clay, right? It's going to make
that impression. And we don't pause to be strengthened spiritually.
(18:33):
And so then we drift. So yeah, the issue is Christ,
he must be at the center of it all.
S4 (18:38):
Yeah. What you're saying reminds me of what Jesus said,
that in John 15 verse five when he said, you know,
I'm the vine, you're the branches. Stay connected. You bear fruit.
And then he said, without me you can do nothing.
S2 (18:53):
Absolutely.
S4 (18:54):
So we can't break. Yeah. So, yeah. No, I'm fully,
fully with you on that. Absolutely. Yeah.
S2 (18:59):
No, he he has to be at the very center
of it all. And and you know what, what a
what a novel idea. Right. A Christian pursuing Christ. Um,
I mean, that he needs to be the heartbeat of
our entire existence. And and when we do connect with
him in a real way, recognizing his love for us,
(19:19):
his care for us. I mean, think of what Scripture says.
Casting your cares upon him, for he cares for you.
I mean, the God of the universe who spans the
entire universe with his hand, whom heaven and the heaven
of heavens cannot contain. He cares for us. He thinks
about us. His his thoughts toward us are more than
the sands, like the psalmist said. And when you recognize
(19:42):
that and what Hebrews says, he who comes to God
must believe that he is, and he's a rewarder of
those who diligently seek him. And then you begin to
recognize that when he's your source, you're going to have
the strength you need to to overcome the sins that
beset you. Yeah.
S4 (20:00):
Well, in the book, you talk about that there are
behaviors and there are mindsets that lead to sin and
that we need to deal with the behaviors and the mindsets.
Talk about that.
S2 (20:12):
Yeah. Well, you know, like Romans 12 two tells us,
don't be conformed to this world, but be transformed by
the renewing of your mind. You know, truth must be
the catalyst that sets us free. Everything begins in the mind,
and the mind is informed by truth. I love the
saying that says, you know, I start with the Word
of God in the morning because I know I'm going
(20:34):
to be lied to all throughout the day. And so
we needed to be a people who understand that if
we don't get a hold of our mind, if we
don't inform our mind with God's word, with truth, if
we don't put on the mind of Christ like Scripture
talks about as well, then we're going to be swayed.
And whenever you're not leaning on the wisdom that God
(20:58):
has revealed to us through His Word, you're going to immediately,
by default, give in to the wisdom of the world,
which we know is folly. And so we have to
get to that place where we recognize we've created patterns
of thought that have been informed by lies that have
come to us through our enemies, the world, the flesh
and the devil. And we need to reverse those lies
(21:20):
by renewing our mind. And that happens through truth, and
that's found in God's Word.
S4 (21:25):
Easy. Is this only a male struggle, or is it
also something women battle with? And is their battle similar
or different from from men in this area.
S2 (21:38):
Yeah. Boy, is this overlooked. Gary. It's often seen as
a man's issue. And by and large, predominantly it is.
Statistics tell us. Sadly, 75% of Christian men occasionally indulge
in pornography. And again, like I said, pornography is the gateway.
(21:59):
But then that ends up leading to all sorts of
sexual sin. But tragically, 40% of women. Christian women, or
at least those that profess to be Christians, also occasionally
indulge in pornography. And so we need to recognize this
is a systemic issue. It's gone far beyond men. And
I think by and large, it's due to accessibility. Back
(22:22):
in the day, even if a man wanted to to
look at some pornography, at pornographic as a teenager, you know,
you had to have a friend whose dad had a
stash of magazines, or you had to steal a video
from a store because they wouldn't sell it to you
if you're under 18 anyway. But now at the click
of a button, it's accessible. And it's not just like
you have to go to a location, sit down at
a computer. We carry these little tiny miniature supercomputers in
(22:44):
our pockets everywhere we go. And so at a click,
at the click of a button, like I said, you
have access but connected with that now has, you know,
been the element of curiosity. And so even women who
wouldn't naturally have that bent in the same way that
men would, because we are more visually stimulated. But women
now are because of curiosity, beginning to dabble in it.
(23:05):
And it's tragic. And, you know, one of the things
that's been encouraging is even though the book is designed
for men, there have been women who have read it
and who have said that they they found help through
it as well.
S4 (23:17):
Mhm. What would you say to parents who, you know,
discover that a child or a teenager is, is watching pornography.
S2 (23:27):
Yeah. Well I would say before you get there take
the steps that are necessary to prevent it from happening.
you know. Gary, again, like I said, in our homes
we have these computers in our pockets, we have these phones.
And basically they are sewage pipes that could at any
moment be opened. And so parents need to be wary
of that. They need to be understand that they need
(23:48):
to take proactive steps to put software on their young
teenagers phones and on the computers at home that are
going to help prevent that. And then communication to talk
to them about the ravages and the destruction of sexual sin.
So we sat our children down and we we talked
to them about the fact that sex is beautiful. God
designed it, but the world has tainted it. Satan has
(24:09):
perverted it, right? Our flesh has has twisted it. But
it's a beautiful thing. And then in connection with that,
we talked to them about the ravages of sin in
terms of the sexual realm. When we indulge in it
in a way that God has not designed. And so
communication is huge and important. But if your kids are
there and they're indulging in it, you can't treat this lightly.
(24:32):
You know, Satan would have us think that it's not
as major as it is, but it's huge. And so
you have to intervene. You have to get in there,
and you have to change the dynamics that make it
possible for your kids to indulge. And then you need
to begin to spiritually counsel them. You may need to
get your pastors involved and other spiritual leaders to help you,
but you have to take action and do it quickly.
S1 (24:57):
You're listening to the Building Relationships with Doctor Gary Chapman podcast,
and our guest is author and speaker Easy Zwane. The
title of today's featured resource at Building Relationships US is
Easy's book Fight Like a man A Biblical Strategy for
Achieving Victory in the battle for purity. Find out more
about it and ways to strengthen your relationships at building relationships.
S4 (25:20):
Us easy. In the book, you talk about a battle plan.
You know, to to really fight against this and you
talk about six C's, the letter C They can help
men fight against sexual immorality. So tell us what these
are and how these can really help us.
S2 (25:39):
You know, Gary, one of the things I talk about
in the book is something that I call preventative preparedness.
And that's kind of the whole peace through strength mentality
that the United States has that doctrine of, look, we
can avoid major battles and wars if if we build
up strength. The point in this is to recognize that
when you indulge in sin, you are using these faculties
(26:00):
and features that should be blowing your mind that that
God designed and that he gave you, but you're using
them as weapons. And so that one is creation. And
that's wheeled wonders as wellsprings for worship, not weapons for wounding.
And I get into the, you know, vision and cognition
what your brain does imagination, creativity, recall memory. And then
(26:22):
the coalition which comes from the word coitus, which is
intimacy and the mechanisms involved in that and reproduction and
and so forth. Then I get into the cross. When
we're committing sexual sin, we're doing it in the shadow
of the cross, where Christ paid the highest price ever
paid for anything to purchase our souls. And we're basically
spitting on the cross and trampling it under our feet.
(26:43):
And so we need to be cross minded in walking,
in purity. And that one is cross. Stop spitting and
stomping on such a sacred symbol, then crisis. We have
to think of the crisis that results from sin, the
crisis of moral authority and conscience and leadership capacity and joy,
and the witness that we're to have for Christ. And
so that one is considered the catastrophic consequences of compromise.
(27:05):
And then, Crown, uh, James tells us, blessed is the
man who endures temptation. For when he has been approved,
he will receive the crown of life. There are spiritual
rewards to be had in eternity by enduring temptation and
not giving into it. And that one is envision endurance,
ensuring eternal enrichment. And then the fifth C is crowd.
And that's recognizing that there's a great cloud or cloud
(27:28):
of witnesses that has gone before us in Hebrews. They
endured it says they were even tempted, but they persevered
through faith. And then there's the crowd of our children
and our grandchildren and our wives and and those that
we've witnessed to and the believers that we've poured into.
We need to recognize our sin affects them. And so
that one is do as the departed did and don't
(27:48):
dispense devastation. And then finally, the sixth C is, of course,
Christ like we talked about before, he is the source
of our strength for victory over sexual sin. And we
need to feast on him. He's our ultimate satisfaction. Not
just that, but Hebrews tells us he sympathizes with our weaknesses.
We can come boldly to his throne of grace to
receive mercy and help. And then first John even tells
(28:11):
us if we do end up sinning, we have an
advocate with the father. These things were written so that
you don't sin. But if you do, we have an
advocate with the father. He paid for our sins. He
wants to come alongside us and help us. And that
last C for Christ and the Alliterated sentence there is
seek the sweet Savior for strength, satisfaction, and sympathetic support.
And so I encourage men to to, you know, dive deep.
(28:32):
I open all those things up in a deep way
in the book, and I encourage them to meditate on
those things, memorize those sentences, think on them every day.
And in the midst of battle, they can go back
to those as well. Yeah.
S4 (28:44):
I would think that section of the book is really,
really going to help men. Yeah, if they will in
fact do what you've just said, you know, then let
the seeds remind them of those areas. But then the
statements that you're making in there. Yeah.
S2 (29:01):
And the thing is, is, you know, we need we
need to give our minds something to do before the
battle so that again, we're prepared. But in the midst
of it, what do you do? You know, you have
to have a place to go. And and men have
told me that, you know, they found these to be
extremely helpful.
S5 (29:15):
Yeah.
S4 (29:16):
Yeah, I can see that. Now, you also use the
word nope. Nope as a part of your battle plan.
What does what does that mean?
S2 (29:26):
Yeah, yeah. So, you know, one day I was counseling
this young man who had been struggling with with sin
and temptation, and, and I said to him, look, how
are you doing? How are you doing with, with pornography?
And he said, you know what? I'm doing pretty good.
I said, well, let me ask you this. How are
you doing with lust? You know, because sometimes I think, Gary,
men can have this mindset. Well, I'm not looking at porn.
(29:46):
I'm great. But sometimes. Do we even really need it? Right?
We have our our memories. We have our own depraved imagination.
And so we don't need that. So, you know, the
young man hung his head kind of in shame, a
little bit discouraged, and he said, you know, I'm not
doing too well there. And Gary, I felt this sort
of zeal and passion for righteousness and purity rise up
in my heart. And I said, brother, you know what?
(30:06):
We just have to get to that place where we say,
enough is enough. I'm done with this. We just have
to say, nope, it's not happening anymore in my life.
And I said, in fact, you know what? We need
to say that word nope out loud because that commits us. Nope.
I'm not doing it. And you know, Gary? Nope has
an edge to it. If someone says, hey, can you
help me move house this weekend? You say, no, that's
one thing. If you say nope, it's like, whoa, okay,
(30:28):
this guy is serious about this, you know? And so
I said, we need to we need to do it.
We need to say it out loud. And I looked
at this young man and I could tell it resonated
with him. It resonated with my own heart. It was
something special kind of happened there. I couldn't explain it
in words. But the next day I'm leaving home to
go to the office. I'm in my car. I'm driving
through my my neighborhood to go to the main street.
When these two young ladies wearing barely anything came jogging
(30:50):
by my car, I caught a glimpse of them in
my periphery. And instinctively I just caught myself saying nope
out loud. And as soon as I said that, I thought,
you know what? I wish there was some acrostic that
could go with the word nope, that would have some
meaning to it. And as soon as I thought that Gary,
the words popped into my mind. Nope, nope. Not one
peek even. Not one peek even. And I've shared this
(31:13):
with so many men and the men that have read
the book. They've told me this has, like, transformed their
mindset and understanding because it becomes this instant, this tool
to where you meditate on it enough, you catch yourself
instinctively doing it and saying it. But then I said
to myself, well, why? Nope. Why not? One peek even.
It has to be anchored to something. And what fuels
it is love. And it's the five main things that
(31:35):
I love. And you know, as I'm thinking about that,
I envision my hand reaching out to grab Ahold of
the handle of the plow. Remember, Jesus said, if anyone
puts his hand to the plow and looks back, he's
not worthy of the kingdom. And that's kind of what
it is. That's what we're doing. We're called to be
focused on Christ, his kingdom. But when we're looking at sexual,
sexually immoral images or thoughts or getting into sexual morality,
that's what we're doing. And so I envision each one
(31:57):
of the five loves represented by each one of my fingers.
And as I'm saying it, each finger is curling around
that handle. And what is it that I love? First,
I love my Lord, the one who paid the highest
price that I mentioned to redeem me and save me.
I'm not going to sin against him. I love my lady,
my wife, who I vowed before heaven and earth to
be faithful to. Who's who's the love of my life.
I love my lineage, my children. That my sin will
(32:20):
affect my grandchildren, even my those that went before me,
my parents and and others. I love them, I love
his lambs. I love God's people, those that I'm to
be a blessing to and to serve. And then lastly,
I love the lost those that I'm called to be
a witness to with the gospel. And so because I
love those things, because I love my Lord, I love
(32:43):
my lady, I love my lineage, I love his lambs,
and I love the lost. Nope. Not one peak even.
S4 (32:50):
Well that's powerful. This whole thing of spirit. The spiritual battle.
How does spiritual depravity sneak into our lives sometimes without
us even realizing it?
S2 (33:02):
Yeah, Gary. Well, that goes with what we discussed earlier,
and that is our fallen, sinful nature. Right. I talked
about the world, the devil and the flesh. The flesh
is our our fallen, sinful nature that is really the
true enemy. As Doctor John Street talks about in his
powerful book, You Know The world and the devil are
(33:25):
outward enemies of opportunity, that a lie or ally with
the flesh. But that's the real enemy. And so, yeah,
our sinful nature will always be there to give a
helping hand toward sin and unrighteousness. And so we have
to understand that, you know, the the problem is, is
that most of the men out there today can have
(33:48):
that self-righteous mindset, especially leaders. You know, the sad thing is, Gary, 18%
of pastors say that they occasionally look at pornography. And
it's that mindset of, no, I can't do it. I
wouldn't do that. Underestimating the sinful nature. But I love
what Voddie Baucham said. You know, he said that the
strongest man in the Bible fell into sexual sin. The
(34:09):
wisest man did, and the godliest man did. If we
don't think that our sinful nature is so depraved that
we can't fall into it, in essence we're saying that
we're stronger than Samson, we're wiser than Solomon, and were
godlier than. King David. And that's just plain stupid, right?
S4 (34:27):
Yeah. Wow. Yeah. Well, we're talking about the. Nope. Thing,
and I really like that. What happens to the man
who allows sexual sin and open door in his life?
S5 (34:42):
Mm.
S2 (34:42):
Well, you don't have to look far, right? I mean,
you look at King David as an example. Um, David sinned,
and he sinned egregiously, and he was forgiven. You remember
the prophet Nathan? After David acknowledged his sin and repented,
he said to him, and the Lord has put away
your sin. And then he said, but the sword will
(35:03):
not depart from your household. You know, Gary. Men need
to recognize that sin has ravages. And oftentimes I think
this confusion hits our hearts and minds. Yeah. God, God's
gracious God, forgives. He does. But there are consequences to sin.
The the sword never departed from David's household. I mean,
there was destruction from that point moving forward. And again,
(35:23):
this isn't to obliterate hope, but it's to bring sobriety. Look,
you can't reverse the fact if you indulge in sexual immorality,
that you have just been notified by your doctor that
you're HIV positive. You can't reverse that, right? That's regret.
You can't change the fact that you've now destroyed a
precious marriage that was beautiful. And and your wife now
(35:46):
has divorced you and left you. You can't change that.
You can't change the fact that that your children have
have been harmed in different ways because of your sexual
sin that led to your divorce and so on and
so forth. Sin is a tangled web, and we need
to recognize that. And so men need to wake up.
They need to they need to pause and say, no, no,
this has consequences. And you know, Gary, the men that say,
(36:07):
I can't help it, you know, I asked men this question.
Sometimes I say, look, if Elon Musk committed $100 million
to you, if you went six months without looking at pornography,
You know that you would do everything possible to do
it right. And so it's not an issue of we can't.
(36:28):
It's that we won't. And as one author put it,
value impacts behavior. We need to reorient our value system
so that it aligns with God's so that we see
sin as hideous as it is, and we see righteousness
as beautiful as it is. And we see his power
as accessible as it is to be able to have
that victory that he provides.
S4 (36:48):
Yeah, I can do all things through Christ who strengthens me. Yes. Amen.
S3 (36:55):
Easy. One of the things that I hear from a
lot of men and women as well, is the the
shame that comes with pornography use and the shame that
keeps you from God because you don't want to go
to him. He's holy and you feel dirty, and so
you just stay alone. Those six C's that you mentioned
finishing up with Christ there is. That is a liberating
(37:19):
message for anybody who feels that shame that you don't
have to stay there. In the shame, you can move
toward God's heart so that he can forgive you and
clean you up. Right?
S5 (37:32):
Mhm.
S2 (37:32):
Oh, man. I can't put into words how so important
this is, and how so glad I am that you
brought it up. And that's where I wanted to head,
you know in that there is hope in Christ. You know,
the book is designed to be and I talk about
that in the preface, what I call gospel centric. Right.
The gospel is often misunderstood as just the instrument through
(37:54):
which we're saved, but in reality, the gospel is the
treasure house of spiritual riches from which we live as Christians.
And the gospel has a part of it. This great
declaration that Paul makes in Ephesians, in him we have
redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of sins. And you
(38:15):
think about that right when Christ died on the cross
for our sins, he had to pay for all of
our sins or for none of our sins at all,
because we know that one sin. It leaves us outside
of God's kingdom and earns us the judgment of hell
for all eternity. As we saw what and what happened
with Eden, a man and a woman eating a piece
of fruit in a garden thousands of years ago. And
(38:37):
here we are. It shows how serious sin is in
the sight of God. But. But here's where where that
leads us. This leads us to the fact that when
Christ died on the cross for our sins, we didn't
even exist yet to commit those sins, which means that
Christ saw us in our totality. He saw everything that
could possibly be seen about us. And the Bible tells
(38:57):
us he demonstrated his own love toward us. The father did,
and that while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us.
Which means that the joy that we experienced, the moment
that we came to know Christ and were saved, is
as valid as when we are in our deepest sin,
because his his redemption of us was real. He knew
(39:17):
all of our sin. He saw us completely, and yet
he still gave his life to redeem us. So the
good news is, no matter how badly you fall and
no matter how much sin you've committed, while there are
consequences to sin, as I mentioned, there is forgiveness, there
is redemption, and there is restoration that you can change
the trend and head in the direction of holiness and righteousness.
(39:38):
I've seen God do this in so many men's lives,
and for those of you listening today, he wants to
do it in your life. Run to him and let
him set you free.
S4 (39:48):
You see, talk to the person who has a loved
one who is involved in sexual sin and a destructive
lifestyle may be a wife. It may be just a friend.
What would you say to that person?
S2 (40:00):
Yeah, well, my heart breaks for them first of all,
because like I said, sin doesn't just affect us. It's
far reaching and it has massive impact. And I think
sometimes there are reasons why people hesitate to do anything.
Sometimes there's just the embarrassment. How do I how do
I talk to this person in my life who's living
in the sin? It's embarrassing. They're humiliated. I don't want
(40:22):
them to feel worse. But that's what love does, right?
It speaks the truth, and it has a confrontational element
to it without needing to be confrontational in the sense
of being harsh or mean, but recognizing that we're sinners
as well, even though our sin may be different, but
approaching that person with intentionality but at the same time
(40:46):
with compassion and with hope, it's hugely important because, like
you said, there is that that element of shame that's
involved there, and there's that sense of hopelessness. But being
able to approach them with truth, but also with the
recognition that this sin only gets worse, right? Sin is enslavement.
As Scripture talks about who you obey, you become that
(41:08):
element's slave in essence. And so you want to you
want to direct them toward help. You want to direct
them toward others who can get into their life and
help them. It's a man accountability and and counsel from
other men and and and direct them toward Christ first
of all. But then those who are servants of Christ,
(41:29):
who can help them in this battle.
S4 (41:31):
Yeah. Talk about the power of prayer in that context.
S5 (41:36):
Mm.
S2 (41:36):
I've often said that prayer is the barometer that tells
us where we're at spiritually as God's people. Because when
you're sitting alone, speaking into the air to a God
whose face you cannot see, whose voice you can't hear,
whose presence you can't feel, it's a true demonstration of
faith that that you know you're doing it despite what
(41:57):
you might even think or believe. And and prayer is,
is the lifeline for every believer. Oftentimes we say, oh,
I guess all I can do is pray. Imagine putting
that in a different way. Oh, I guess all I
can do is talk to the omnipotent, omniscient, Omnipresent, sovereign,
all powerful God of the universe. I guess that's all
I can do. And by the way, the one. The
(42:20):
one who loves me infinitely. That he paid with his
blood to redeem me. Now, look, we have to understand
that it's through crying out to the Lord that we're
going to see intervention in our lives, right? Scripture says
you have not because you ask not. Right. And so
we need to understand those words that James utters it,
that man, we need to cry out to God, casting
(42:40):
your cares upon him. He cares for you, letting your
requests be made known to him, and understanding that that
God divinely works through prayer. It tells us in First
John that if we ask anything according to his will,
he hears us. And if we know he hears us,
we know we have the request we've asked of him,
and we know that his will is that we walk
in purity. I mean, it tells us that in first
Thessalonians four three through eight that that this is the
(43:03):
will of God, that you abstain from sexual immorality, uh,
that you you determine to. To put that off and
walk in holiness. And so it's also a connection with
your God. When you develop that intimacy with him and
that close relationship, it's going to change your desires and
your pursuits as well.
S5 (43:21):
Yeah.
S4 (43:22):
Well, Lisa, I want to thank you for being with
us today because you. You're giving hope to a lot
of men who are struggling in this area. And I
want to thank you also for writing the book. I mean,
I know, I know, it takes time to write a book. Yeah.
And I deeply appreciate what you've done. And to our listeners,
I just want to say, you know, if you're a
(43:43):
wife who's has a husband, you know, he's involved in this,
this would be a good tool whether you give it
to him or a friend gives it to him. But
somebody needs to get it in his hands because it
will help him. So thank you for being with us today,
and may God continue to give you wisdom as you
minister not only in this area, but in other areas,
(44:03):
pointing people to Christ.
S2 (44:05):
It's been an honor, Gary. Thank you again for having me.
And may again the Lord give men victory.
S6 (44:10):
Through the truth.
S2 (44:11):
Of His word, and I hope they're able to mine
that truth from this book. It was a labor of love,
but God was gracious in allowing me to write it.
Thank you again, brother.
S3 (44:19):
Well, there's so much we didn't get to on the
program today. If you go to building relationships us, you'll
see Zane's book Fight Like a man A Biblical Strategy
for achieving Victory in the battle for purity. Again, you
can find out more at building relationships.us.
S4 (44:36):
And coming up next week how to have a mindful marriage.
S1 (44:41):
Don't miss the conversation with Ron and Nandyal in one week.
Before we go, let me thank our production team, Steve
Wick and Janice. Backing building relationships with Doctor Gary Chapman
is a production of Moody Radio in Chicago in association
with Moody Publishers, a ministry of Moody Bible Institute. Thanks
for listening.
Whether they realize it or not. Men fight in an
unseen spiritual war for purity. Every day on this battlefield,
they can often become blinded to the devastating consequences of
sexual sin. How do you combat the enemy who wants
to destroy the lives of men?
S2 (00:22):
Men are acting like a soldier who's deluded into thinking
that he's on a luxury cruise ship heading to an
exotic resort, when in reality, he's on a Higgins boat
heading for the shores of World War II. Normandy. And
our enemies are fierce, and they're attacking us from every direction.
We need to be ready to fight.
S3 (00:43):
Welcome to building relationships with Doctor Gary Chapman, author of
the New York Times best seller The Five Love Languages Today,
the story of a man who went through some intense
struggles in his youth and then found profound transformation. He
wants to give help and hope for any man who's
trying to overcome sexual sin. And if you go to
the website, you'll see our featured resource today. Fight like
(01:06):
a man.
S1 (01:07):
The subtitle is A Biblical strategy for achieving victory in
the battle for purity. Just go to building relationships us
to find out about that book. And our guest, Emil Esswein. Again,
go to building relationships.us.
S3 (01:22):
Gary, I'm excited for this conversation, especially here at the
beginning of the year, because I think this could be
a reset for a lot of men who have been
stuck in some old patterns for years and maybe even decades.
S4 (01:36):
Well, I think you're right, Chris, and there's no question
about it. This is a major problem in our culture. Many,
many men are struggling in this area. And, you know,
as you begin a new year, it's a great time
to say, okay, God, it's time to change. So I'm
glad about our discussion today and also this book. I
think it's going to help a lot of men.
S3 (01:55):
I do too, and I think that one of the
tricks of the enemy is, the enemy will whisper in
your ear. This is the way it's always going to be.
You'll never change. Don't listen to that voice. Listen to
what Emil Zwein has to say. He's president of Living Waters,
host of the National Bible Bee competition. You may have
seen him there. Co-host of the Living Waters podcast. He
(02:17):
serves as an executive producer of the Way of the
master TV program and multiple Living Waters films. Easy's family
immigrated to the U.S. from Lebanon when he was four
years old, and he and his wife, Rachel, have five children.
If you go to building relationships.us, you'll see his book
Fight Like a man A Biblical Strategy for Achieving Victory
(02:39):
in the battle for purity. Again, go to building relationships.
Dot us.
S4 (02:44):
Well. Easy. Welcome to building relationships, Gary.
S2 (02:47):
What a joy it is to be with you today.
And let me just say, the thing that blows my
mind is the fact that you guys are willing to
tackle the subject. It's not a popular one, but as
you know, it's one that urgently needs to be addressed.
So thank you for having the courage to do that.
And thank you for having me on.
S4 (03:03):
Well, we're glad you're here. And the topic is you're right, very,
very needed. Well, we could spend the whole hour just
on your story. But for those who don't know you
tell us a little bit about your life and how
you became known as easy.
S2 (03:18):
Yeah, well, I was born in Lebanon back in 1975.
You might remember that was kind of the start of
the major civil war that lasted for ten plus years
in Lebanon. And I was born into a maronite family,
which is a part of the Catholic Church. And the
country was so war torn, so devastating. Our parents saw
(03:41):
no future for us there. And so fortunately, a couple
of my uncles had immigrated to the US some years
before us. They got established, started their careers, so they
were able to sponsor us and bring us over. And
I'm sure as as you can probably imagine, it was
quite an adjustment for me. I was about four and
a half years old. So I'm in this new world,
(04:01):
new culture, new language, and I was trying to sort
of adjust to it all. And I had this somewhat
of a kind of soldier chip on my shoulder, if
you would, growing up in, in that war type of atmosphere.
And so from the outset, I just started getting into
a lot of trouble here in the US and ended
up hitting my high school years where I really got
(04:22):
into big trouble, ended up becoming a member of the Crips.
A gang member, got kicked out of two high schools,
tried to commit suicide in front of my family. But
as I'm sure we'll talk about here in a little bit,
the Lord ended up invading my life August 15th, 1991
and and radically transformed me. And so these are the initials.
It's a lot easier to go by those in the
(04:44):
full name, but that's kind of my story in a nutshell.
S4 (04:47):
Well that's powerful. I think there are a lot of
immigrants to our country who can identify with what you're
saying for sure, right?
S2 (04:55):
Yeah.
S4 (04:56):
Well, you know, this book Fight Like a man comes
out of your own experience and your own struggle in
this area of life. What motivated you to write this book?
S2 (05:07):
Yeah. Well, as you heard in my brief testimony there,
you know, I was I was out there lost and
enmeshed in sin in every way imaginable. And a part
of that was, of course, sexual immorality. And when I
came to Christ, I experienced a freedom unlike anything I
had ever known. You know, before I became a Christian,
I had somewhat of a conscience, having had, you know,
(05:28):
that religious background that the things I was involved in
were wrong. But at the same time, I didn't have
the power to overcome them or find victory in them.
And so when I came to know the Lord, it
was just this, the, you know, the new nature kicking
in and this, this power that I experienced over sin,
it was transformational. And after that, you know, after the
(05:49):
Lord had revolutionized my life, I ended up becoming a pastor.
And now I serve as the president of a ministry
called Living Waters. But in those pastoral years especially, I
began to encounter so many men that were entrenched in
this destructive sin of sexual morality and usually through the
gateway of pornography. And, you know, in the preface of
the book, I talk about how necessity and passion are
(06:11):
really the two ingredients that are most needed for a
book to truly have impact. And so the necessity was huge,
and the passion to see men delivered from this sin
really burned in my heart. And so, so that's what
stirred me up. And and, you know, the fact that
so many men feel hopeless in this is something that
(06:31):
gnawed at me because there is hope in Christ and
there is the pathway and possibility for victory. And so
that that really captivated me, and God burdened my heart
for it. And I've been amazed to see the outcome,
even so far, from those that have been impacted by
the book. It debuted on Amazon as the number one
bestseller and the number one new release in its category,
(06:54):
and the response from men that have read it already
has been very encouraging and heartening.
S4 (07:00):
Yeah. That's great. You know, I think anytime we have
gone through an experience like you went through and then
God delivers us, we're motivated to try to help other people.
You know, that's probably why I've spent my life working
with marriage and family, because we had struggles in our
own marriage in those early years.
S2 (07:18):
Absolutely. Yeah. And, you know, and as a as a man,
of course, I, I relate to that. The Lord delivered
me from that realm. But I deal with those temptations
and that lure and that pull. And so I come
alongside men in that and saying, look, I'm I'm a
fellow traveler on this road with you as a sinner
who understands the temptations and the lure and, and there
(07:39):
there is hope and victory in Christ.
S4 (07:41):
Yeah. Yeah. Well, we're talking about purity and using the
word purity in your book. Define. Define the word purity.
S2 (07:48):
Yeah. So purity would be indicative of a life that
has no admixture of compromise and corrupting sin in it. Now,
I'm not talking about a life of perfection or flawlessness,
but a disposition of the heart that says, look, I've
been redeemed. I've been set free. I've been bought with
a price. I no longer belong to myself. I'm the Lord's.
(08:11):
I know positionally I have perfect righteousness in Christ. He's
redeemed me. He set me free. He's clothed me with
that perfect righteousness. But practically I am called to live
in holiness. Practically, I'm called as first Timothy four seven says,
to discipline myself for godliness. I'm called as Second Timothy
222 says to flee youthful lusts. And so it's that
(08:33):
determination as a man recognizing, look, I have the spirit
that raised Jesus from the dead dwelling in me. God
has called me to a life of holiness, and now
I'm going to practically obey him through the strength and
grace that he supplies to flee from this temptation and
lure to indulge in sexual sin, that is, that is
dishonoring to the Lord, that's destructive to those that I
(08:53):
love and that hinders my testimony and witness as an
ambassador of Christ in this world for the gospel. Yeah.
S4 (09:01):
Well, the title of the book is Fight Like a man.
Why did you use the metaphor of a battle?
S2 (09:07):
Yeah, that's a really good question. And and it's because
that's exactly what it is. I mean, Gary, you understand
as a man it's a battle. But the sad thing is,
most men don't recognize that. You know, they're living with
a peacetime mentality. When we need a wartime mentality and
we have enemies, I'm sure we'll get into that. But.
But that's a tragedy. And oftentimes men are acting like
(09:31):
a soldier who's deluded into thinking that he's on a
luxury cruise ship heading for the shores of Bora Bora
to an exotic resort, when in reality he's on a
Higgins boat heading for the shores of World War II. Normandy. And, Gary,
I'm sure you can. You can imagine a man with
that mindset, you know, sauntering off the Higgins boat right
into the midst of the theater of war. Clad in
(09:52):
a bathrobe, some fluffy slippers and a remote control in
his hand, and you and I both know he's going
to get smoked. And so I wanted men to understand
this is a battle, and our enemies are fierce, and
they're attacking us from every direction. We need to be
ready to fight.
S4 (10:08):
What are some of the warning signs that we are
indeed in a spiritual battle in this area, in defeating this,
this temptation?
S2 (10:16):
Yeah, well, I think the lure is the telltale sign, right?
The pull to do that, which is dishonoring and displeasing
in the sight of God. You know, I often tell Christians,
any time you wonder whether or not you should be
doing something that's righteous or that's spiritual, all you have
(10:36):
to do is, is do the opposite of what you're
feeling or are being lured to do. You know, I
don't feel like praying. I don't feel like seeking the Lord.
I don't feel like being in the word. I don't
feel like doing righteousness. You know, that's exactly what you
need to be doing. And so we need to understand that,
you know, that low grade pull toward sin and compromise.
(10:59):
It begins with the with the thought life that begins
with the opportunities to engage in things that we know
we shouldn't engage in. Those are all evidences that we
have enemies, that they're real, that they are seeking to
undermine anything that would bring glory and honor to God.
Because that's why we exist, right? As as the old
(11:19):
confession goes, right to to glorify God and enjoy him forever.
And often we disconnect glorification from obedience. But but they
can't be disconnected. You know, first John says, and this
is love, that we keep his commandments, and his commandments
are not burdensome. So it's this glad obedience that stands
up in the face of these telltale signs that are
(11:42):
seeking again to lead us to dishonor God. I mean,
you could look at the life of job and you
could see what Satan was attempting to do. He wanted
to disprove job. He wanted to destroy him. Well, the
Lord wanted to to establish him and prove him and
strengthen him. And so. So we need to understand that
that those are all again, evidences of of us being
(12:02):
drawn toward spiritual rebellion against the Lord.
S4 (12:06):
Yeah. Will you say that Satan uses like things like discontentment, disbelief,
deification to distract us from the consequences of our sin
and kind of blind us to that? Talk about that, right?
S2 (12:21):
Yeah. Well, you know, Gary, Satan is a is a
one trick pony. There's nothing new about his strategies against
us as God's people. We can go back to Eden
and and see what he did with with Eve there. And,
you know, by, by extension, Adam. He, he, he comes
at them with, with the three pronged approach. And that
is first, discontent. Has God said, you can't eat of
(12:44):
every tree of the garden? In In reality, obviously we
know God had given Adam and Eve access to every
single tree. And not just that, but he told them
they can eat freely of it. There were no limitations given,
but Satan comes in and begins to create discontent. You
can't have it, all right? And suddenly kind of like,
you know, in the Old Testament, in the book of
(13:05):
of Esther with Haman, where it says everything that he
had availed him nothing, just because he couldn't get that
one thing, which was Mordecai bowing before him. Right. So
so he creates this discontentment. Then he hits us with disbelief. No, no, no,
you will not surely die, he said to Eve. You're
not going to die. The consequences for sin that God
(13:25):
says are what they are aren't really what they are.
And he does that with us. He hits us with, no, no, no,
there really won't be ramifications to sexual sin. Well, first
Corinthians 618 tells us that every sin that a man commits,
he does outside of the body, but he who commits
sexual sin sins against his own body. It's set aside
as a distinct sin with radical ramifications. And then finally
(13:49):
he comes in with deification. No, no, no, not just that.
You're not going to die. You will become like God.
Your eyes will be open. You'll know good from evil.
In other words, you'll become autonomous and you'll be the
one to arbitrate what is right and wrong and what
pathway you want to take in terms of morality in
your life. And it's the same thing with us, you know,
(14:11):
he comes at us with that discontent. You can't have
that sexual sin that you want. He hits us with disbelief.
If you do indulge in it, no, don't worry, nothing's
going to happen. And then in essence, you can make
the call on your own life. You're independent. You should
be able to determine what's right and wrong for you.
S4 (14:27):
Yeah, well, I hope that men who are listening to
us today really hear what you're saying, because you're exactly right.
When you said earlier that Satan don't have any new tricks,
that these are the tricks he used way back there with.
With Adam and Eve. Wow.
S2 (14:45):
Absolutely. Yeah. And we need to be. We need to
be ready for those. You know, and that's what I
get into in the book. You know, how can we
then counter those? We need to understand his strategy and
then we need to have a counterattack. Yeah.
S4 (14:57):
What you said at 15 years of age, you were
a gang member involved in drugs. You were living a
destructive lifestyle. What? What really? What were the things that
God used to turn you around?
S2 (15:08):
As I mentioned earlier, I had this sort of built
up tension inside of me that was maybe manifesting in
the form of anger and rebellion, and my pathway was
just leading to massive, massive destruction. And it kept getting
worse and worse. You know, before I came to Christ,
I had this long list of do's and don'ts that
I had formulated in my mind. Things I'd always do,
(15:31):
things I'd never indulge in. And little by little, as
the influence of the world began to set in, all
of that, you know, just kind of became a distant
memory as I began to, to indulge in sin and
and I just. Yeah. Strayed further and further and went
deeper and deeper into rebellion and immorality and and by
(15:51):
God's grace, on August 15th, 1991, I heard the gospel
and its full purity for the first time, that even
though I had rebelled against God, even though I had
sinned in the egregious ways that I had because of
his love for me, because of what Christ did and
his death and resurrection, I can be set free and transformed.
And Gary, I tell you, it was as First Corinthians says,
(16:13):
I was a new creation. The old things had passed away,
everything became new, and it was a realization that salvation
was a free gift. I couldn't earn it, couldn't work
for it. But God would give it to me on
the basis of faith in what he did. And I
just remember that night it was as if though the
scales from my eyes had dropped and I finally understood
(16:33):
what the cross meant. You know, I grew up seeing
it in that church chapel every Sunday, and I understood
intellectually how Jesus died on the cross. But but I
never understood its real essence and power. And so that night,
when I heard God would be willing to set me free,
I placed my faith in him and everything changed the
way I walked, thought, act, and felt. I was literally
(16:54):
a new creation. And. And here I am today with you.
S4 (16:58):
Yeah, well, those of us who are following Christ can
identify with what you're saying for sure. Amen. Well, you know,
I think sometimes when a man is struggling in this
area of life, he tends to focus on I'm talking
about Christians. Now. I've just got to avoid this. I've
got to avoid this. I've got to avoid this. Right.
But but is there a risk in focusing only on
(17:19):
the sin, you know, and just telling yourself, I've got
to stop, I've got to stop.
S2 (17:24):
Yeah. Yeah, absolutely. I'm so glad you brought that point up.
You know, Paul says in Galatians, I say, then walk
in the spirit and you will not fulfill the lusts
of the flesh. And it's important for men to recognize this.
You know, sometimes we want to just put something off,
but you got to put something on, and we need
to put on the Lord Jesus Christ. We need to
recognize that he is the very source of our strength.
(17:47):
He's the very source of our victory over sexual sin.
And so there needs to be this pursuit of the Lord.
You don't just turn away from sin. You turn toward
the Lord, toward your Redeemer. Right? You run the race
with endurance, looking unto Jesus, the author, and the finisher
of our faith. And and so, you know, the problem is, though,
(18:08):
Gary is a lot of men don't develop that spiritual
vitality in their life. They're not pursuing the Lord. They're
living half heartedly consumed with the things of the world
and being influenced by the world because we're very, very
impressionable and the world is very influential. It's like a
rock coming up against clay, right? It's going to make
that impression. And we don't pause to be strengthened spiritually.
(18:33):
And so then we drift. So yeah, the issue is Christ,
he must be at the center of it all.
S4 (18:38):
Yeah. What you're saying reminds me of what Jesus said,
that in John 15 verse five when he said, you know,
I'm the vine, you're the branches. Stay connected. You bear fruit.
And then he said, without me you can do nothing.
S2 (18:53):
Absolutely.
S4 (18:54):
So we can't break. Yeah. So, yeah. No, I'm fully,
fully with you on that. Absolutely. Yeah.
S2 (18:59):
No, he he has to be at the very center
of it all. And and you know what, what a
what a novel idea. Right. A Christian pursuing Christ. Um,
I mean, that he needs to be the heartbeat of
our entire existence. And and when we do connect with
him in a real way, recognizing his love for us,
(19:19):
his care for us. I mean, think of what Scripture says.
Casting your cares upon him, for he cares for you.
I mean, the God of the universe who spans the
entire universe with his hand, whom heaven and the heaven
of heavens cannot contain. He cares for us. He thinks
about us. His his thoughts toward us are more than
the sands, like the psalmist said. And when you recognize
(19:42):
that and what Hebrews says, he who comes to God
must believe that he is, and he's a rewarder of
those who diligently seek him. And then you begin to
recognize that when he's your source, you're going to have
the strength you need to to overcome the sins that
beset you. Yeah.
S4 (20:00):
Well, in the book, you talk about that there are
behaviors and there are mindsets that lead to sin and
that we need to deal with the behaviors and the mindsets.
Talk about that.
S2 (20:12):
Yeah. Well, you know, like Romans 12 two tells us,
don't be conformed to this world, but be transformed by
the renewing of your mind. You know, truth must be
the catalyst that sets us free. Everything begins in the mind,
and the mind is informed by truth. I love the
saying that says, you know, I start with the Word
of God in the morning because I know I'm going
(20:34):
to be lied to all throughout the day. And so
we needed to be a people who understand that if
we don't get a hold of our mind, if we
don't inform our mind with God's word, with truth, if
we don't put on the mind of Christ like Scripture
talks about as well, then we're going to be swayed.
And whenever you're not leaning on the wisdom that God
(20:58):
has revealed to us through His Word, you're going to immediately,
by default, give in to the wisdom of the world,
which we know is folly. And so we have to
get to that place where we recognize we've created patterns
of thought that have been informed by lies that have
come to us through our enemies, the world, the flesh
and the devil. And we need to reverse those lies
(21:20):
by renewing our mind. And that happens through truth, and
that's found in God's Word.
S4 (21:25):
Easy. Is this only a male struggle, or is it
also something women battle with? And is their battle similar
or different from from men in this area.
S2 (21:38):
Yeah. Boy, is this overlooked. Gary. It's often seen as
a man's issue. And by and large, predominantly it is.
Statistics tell us. Sadly, 75% of Christian men occasionally indulge
in pornography. And again, like I said, pornography is the gateway.
(21:59):
But then that ends up leading to all sorts of
sexual sin. But tragically, 40% of women. Christian women, or
at least those that profess to be Christians, also occasionally
indulge in pornography. And so we need to recognize this
is a systemic issue. It's gone far beyond men. And
I think by and large, it's due to accessibility. Back
(22:22):
in the day, even if a man wanted to to
look at some pornography, at pornographic as a teenager, you know,
you had to have a friend whose dad had a
stash of magazines, or you had to steal a video
from a store because they wouldn't sell it to you
if you're under 18 anyway. But now at the click
of a button, it's accessible. And it's not just like
you have to go to a location, sit down at
a computer. We carry these little tiny miniature supercomputers in
(22:44):
our pockets everywhere we go. And so at a click,
at the click of a button, like I said, you
have access but connected with that now has, you know,
been the element of curiosity. And so even women who
wouldn't naturally have that bent in the same way that
men would, because we are more visually stimulated. But women
now are because of curiosity, beginning to dabble in it.
(23:05):
And it's tragic. And, you know, one of the things
that's been encouraging is even though the book is designed
for men, there have been women who have read it
and who have said that they they found help through
it as well.
S4 (23:17):
Mhm. What would you say to parents who, you know,
discover that a child or a teenager is, is watching pornography.
S2 (23:27):
Yeah. Well I would say before you get there take
the steps that are necessary to prevent it from happening.
you know. Gary, again, like I said, in our homes
we have these computers in our pockets, we have these phones.
And basically they are sewage pipes that could at any
moment be opened. And so parents need to be wary
of that. They need to be understand that they need
(23:48):
to take proactive steps to put software on their young
teenagers phones and on the computers at home that are
going to help prevent that. And then communication to talk
to them about the ravages and the destruction of sexual sin.
So we sat our children down and we we talked
to them about the fact that sex is beautiful. God
designed it, but the world has tainted it. Satan has
(24:09):
perverted it, right? Our flesh has has twisted it. But
it's a beautiful thing. And then in connection with that,
we talked to them about the ravages of sin in
terms of the sexual realm. When we indulge in it
in a way that God has not designed. And so
communication is huge and important. But if your kids are
there and they're indulging in it, you can't treat this lightly.
(24:32):
You know, Satan would have us think that it's not
as major as it is, but it's huge. And so
you have to intervene. You have to get in there,
and you have to change the dynamics that make it
possible for your kids to indulge. And then you need
to begin to spiritually counsel them. You may need to
get your pastors involved and other spiritual leaders to help you,
but you have to take action and do it quickly.
S1 (24:57):
You're listening to the Building Relationships with Doctor Gary Chapman podcast,
and our guest is author and speaker Easy Zwane. The
title of today's featured resource at Building Relationships US is
Easy's book Fight Like a man A Biblical Strategy for
Achieving Victory in the battle for purity. Find out more
about it and ways to strengthen your relationships at building relationships.
S4 (25:20):
Us easy. In the book, you talk about a battle plan.
You know, to to really fight against this and you
talk about six C's, the letter C They can help
men fight against sexual immorality. So tell us what these
are and how these can really help us.
S2 (25:39):
You know, Gary, one of the things I talk about
in the book is something that I call preventative preparedness.
And that's kind of the whole peace through strength mentality
that the United States has that doctrine of, look, we
can avoid major battles and wars if if we build
up strength. The point in this is to recognize that
when you indulge in sin, you are using these faculties
(26:00):
and features that should be blowing your mind that that
God designed and that he gave you, but you're using
them as weapons. And so that one is creation. And
that's wheeled wonders as wellsprings for worship, not weapons for wounding.
And I get into the, you know, vision and cognition
what your brain does imagination, creativity, recall memory. And then
(26:22):
the coalition which comes from the word coitus, which is
intimacy and the mechanisms involved in that and reproduction and
and so forth. Then I get into the cross. When
we're committing sexual sin, we're doing it in the shadow
of the cross, where Christ paid the highest price ever
paid for anything to purchase our souls. And we're basically
spitting on the cross and trampling it under our feet.
(26:43):
And so we need to be cross minded in walking,
in purity. And that one is cross. Stop spitting and
stomping on such a sacred symbol, then crisis. We have
to think of the crisis that results from sin, the
crisis of moral authority and conscience and leadership capacity and joy,
and the witness that we're to have for Christ. And
so that one is considered the catastrophic consequences of compromise.
(27:05):
And then, Crown, uh, James tells us, blessed is the
man who endures temptation. For when he has been approved,
he will receive the crown of life. There are spiritual
rewards to be had in eternity by enduring temptation and
not giving into it. And that one is envision endurance,
ensuring eternal enrichment. And then the fifth C is crowd.
And that's recognizing that there's a great cloud or cloud
(27:28):
of witnesses that has gone before us in Hebrews. They
endured it says they were even tempted, but they persevered
through faith. And then there's the crowd of our children
and our grandchildren and our wives and and those that
we've witnessed to and the believers that we've poured into.
We need to recognize our sin affects them. And so
that one is do as the departed did and don't
(27:48):
dispense devastation. And then finally, the sixth C is, of course,
Christ like we talked about before, he is the source
of our strength for victory over sexual sin. And we
need to feast on him. He's our ultimate satisfaction. Not
just that, but Hebrews tells us he sympathizes with our weaknesses.
We can come boldly to his throne of grace to
receive mercy and help. And then first John even tells
(28:11):
us if we do end up sinning, we have an
advocate with the father. These things were written so that
you don't sin. But if you do, we have an
advocate with the father. He paid for our sins. He
wants to come alongside us and help us. And that
last C for Christ and the Alliterated sentence there is
seek the sweet Savior for strength, satisfaction, and sympathetic support.
And so I encourage men to to, you know, dive deep.
(28:32):
I open all those things up in a deep way
in the book, and I encourage them to meditate on
those things, memorize those sentences, think on them every day.
And in the midst of battle, they can go back
to those as well. Yeah.
S4 (28:44):
I would think that section of the book is really,
really going to help men. Yeah, if they will in
fact do what you've just said, you know, then let
the seeds remind them of those areas. But then the
statements that you're making in there. Yeah.
S2 (29:01):
And the thing is, is, you know, we need we
need to give our minds something to do before the
battle so that again, we're prepared. But in the midst
of it, what do you do? You know, you have
to have a place to go. And and men have
told me that, you know, they found these to be
extremely helpful.
S5 (29:15):
Yeah.
S4 (29:16):
Yeah, I can see that. Now, you also use the
word nope. Nope as a part of your battle plan.
What does what does that mean?
S2 (29:26):
Yeah, yeah. So, you know, one day I was counseling
this young man who had been struggling with with sin
and temptation, and, and I said to him, look, how
are you doing? How are you doing with, with pornography?
And he said, you know what? I'm doing pretty good.
I said, well, let me ask you this. How are
you doing with lust? You know, because sometimes I think, Gary,
men can have this mindset. Well, I'm not looking at porn.
(29:46):
I'm great. But sometimes. Do we even really need it? Right?
We have our our memories. We have our own depraved imagination.
And so we don't need that. So, you know, the
young man hung his head kind of in shame, a
little bit discouraged, and he said, you know, I'm not
doing too well there. And Gary, I felt this sort
of zeal and passion for righteousness and purity rise up
in my heart. And I said, brother, you know what?
(30:06):
We just have to get to that place where we say,
enough is enough. I'm done with this. We just have
to say, nope, it's not happening anymore in my life.
And I said, in fact, you know what? We need
to say that word nope out loud because that commits us. Nope.
I'm not doing it. And you know, Gary? Nope has
an edge to it. If someone says, hey, can you
help me move house this weekend? You say, no, that's
one thing. If you say nope, it's like, whoa, okay,
(30:28):
this guy is serious about this, you know? And so
I said, we need to we need to do it.
We need to say it out loud. And I looked
at this young man and I could tell it resonated
with him. It resonated with my own heart. It was
something special kind of happened there. I couldn't explain it
in words. But the next day I'm leaving home to
go to the office. I'm in my car. I'm driving
through my my neighborhood to go to the main street.
When these two young ladies wearing barely anything came jogging
(30:50):
by my car, I caught a glimpse of them in
my periphery. And instinctively I just caught myself saying nope
out loud. And as soon as I said that, I thought,
you know what? I wish there was some acrostic that
could go with the word nope, that would have some
meaning to it. And as soon as I thought that Gary,
the words popped into my mind. Nope, nope. Not one
peek even. Not one peek even. And I've shared this
(31:13):
with so many men and the men that have read
the book. They've told me this has, like, transformed their
mindset and understanding because it becomes this instant, this tool
to where you meditate on it enough, you catch yourself
instinctively doing it and saying it. But then I said
to myself, well, why? Nope. Why not? One peek even.
It has to be anchored to something. And what fuels
it is love. And it's the five main things that
(31:35):
I love. And you know, as I'm thinking about that,
I envision my hand reaching out to grab Ahold of
the handle of the plow. Remember, Jesus said, if anyone
puts his hand to the plow and looks back, he's
not worthy of the kingdom. And that's kind of what
it is. That's what we're doing. We're called to be
focused on Christ, his kingdom. But when we're looking at sexual,
sexually immoral images or thoughts or getting into sexual morality,
that's what we're doing. And so I envision each one
(31:57):
of the five loves represented by each one of my fingers.
And as I'm saying it, each finger is curling around
that handle. And what is it that I love? First,
I love my Lord, the one who paid the highest
price that I mentioned to redeem me and save me.
I'm not going to sin against him. I love my lady,
my wife, who I vowed before heaven and earth to
be faithful to. Who's who's the love of my life.
I love my lineage, my children. That my sin will
(32:20):
affect my grandchildren, even my those that went before me,
my parents and and others. I love them, I love
his lambs. I love God's people, those that I'm to
be a blessing to and to serve. And then lastly,
I love the lost those that I'm called to be
a witness to with the gospel. And so because I
love those things, because I love my Lord, I love
(32:43):
my lady, I love my lineage, I love his lambs,
and I love the lost. Nope. Not one peak even.
S4 (32:50):
Well that's powerful. This whole thing of spirit. The spiritual battle.
How does spiritual depravity sneak into our lives sometimes without
us even realizing it?
S2 (33:02):
Yeah, Gary. Well, that goes with what we discussed earlier,
and that is our fallen, sinful nature. Right. I talked
about the world, the devil and the flesh. The flesh
is our our fallen, sinful nature that is really the
true enemy. As Doctor John Street talks about in his
powerful book, You Know The world and the devil are
(33:25):
outward enemies of opportunity, that a lie or ally with
the flesh. But that's the real enemy. And so, yeah,
our sinful nature will always be there to give a
helping hand toward sin and unrighteousness. And so we have
to understand that, you know, the the problem is, is
that most of the men out there today can have
(33:48):
that self-righteous mindset, especially leaders. You know, the sad thing is, Gary, 18%
of pastors say that they occasionally look at pornography. And
it's that mindset of, no, I can't do it. I
wouldn't do that. Underestimating the sinful nature. But I love
what Voddie Baucham said. You know, he said that the
strongest man in the Bible fell into sexual sin. The
(34:09):
wisest man did, and the godliest man did. If we
don't think that our sinful nature is so depraved that
we can't fall into it, in essence we're saying that
we're stronger than Samson, we're wiser than Solomon, and were
godlier than. King David. And that's just plain stupid, right?
S4 (34:27):
Yeah. Wow. Yeah. Well, we're talking about the. Nope. Thing,
and I really like that. What happens to the man
who allows sexual sin and open door in his life?
S5 (34:42):
Mm.
S2 (34:42):
Well, you don't have to look far, right? I mean,
you look at King David as an example. Um, David sinned,
and he sinned egregiously, and he was forgiven. You remember
the prophet Nathan? After David acknowledged his sin and repented,
he said to him, and the Lord has put away
your sin. And then he said, but the sword will
(35:03):
not depart from your household. You know, Gary. Men need
to recognize that sin has ravages. And oftentimes I think
this confusion hits our hearts and minds. Yeah. God, God's
gracious God, forgives. He does. But there are consequences to sin.
The the sword never departed from David's household. I mean,
there was destruction from that point moving forward. And again,
(35:23):
this isn't to obliterate hope, but it's to bring sobriety. Look,
you can't reverse the fact if you indulge in sexual immorality,
that you have just been notified by your doctor that
you're HIV positive. You can't reverse that, right? That's regret.
You can't change the fact that you've now destroyed a
precious marriage that was beautiful. And and your wife now
(35:46):
has divorced you and left you. You can't change that.
You can't change the fact that that your children have
have been harmed in different ways because of your sexual
sin that led to your divorce and so on and
so forth. Sin is a tangled web, and we need
to recognize that. And so men need to wake up.
They need to they need to pause and say, no, no,
this has consequences. And you know, Gary, the men that say,
(36:07):
I can't help it, you know, I asked men this question.
Sometimes I say, look, if Elon Musk committed $100 million
to you, if you went six months without looking at pornography,
You know that you would do everything possible to do
it right. And so it's not an issue of we can't.
(36:28):
It's that we won't. And as one author put it,
value impacts behavior. We need to reorient our value system
so that it aligns with God's so that we see
sin as hideous as it is, and we see righteousness
as beautiful as it is. And we see his power
as accessible as it is to be able to have
that victory that he provides.
S4 (36:48):
Yeah, I can do all things through Christ who strengthens me. Yes. Amen.
S3 (36:55):
Easy. One of the things that I hear from a
lot of men and women as well, is the the
shame that comes with pornography use and the shame that
keeps you from God because you don't want to go
to him. He's holy and you feel dirty, and so
you just stay alone. Those six C's that you mentioned
finishing up with Christ there is. That is a liberating
(37:19):
message for anybody who feels that shame that you don't
have to stay there. In the shame, you can move
toward God's heart so that he can forgive you and
clean you up. Right?
S5 (37:32):
Mhm.
S2 (37:32):
Oh, man. I can't put into words how so important
this is, and how so glad I am that you
brought it up. And that's where I wanted to head,
you know in that there is hope in Christ. You know,
the book is designed to be and I talk about
that in the preface, what I call gospel centric. Right.
The gospel is often misunderstood as just the instrument through
(37:54):
which we're saved, but in reality, the gospel is the
treasure house of spiritual riches from which we live as Christians.
And the gospel has a part of it. This great
declaration that Paul makes in Ephesians, in him we have
redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of sins. And you
(38:15):
think about that right when Christ died on the cross
for our sins, he had to pay for all of
our sins or for none of our sins at all,
because we know that one sin. It leaves us outside
of God's kingdom and earns us the judgment of hell
for all eternity. As we saw what and what happened
with Eden, a man and a woman eating a piece
of fruit in a garden thousands of years ago. And
(38:37):
here we are. It shows how serious sin is in
the sight of God. But. But here's where where that
leads us. This leads us to the fact that when
Christ died on the cross for our sins, we didn't
even exist yet to commit those sins, which means that
Christ saw us in our totality. He saw everything that
could possibly be seen about us. And the Bible tells
(38:57):
us he demonstrated his own love toward us. The father did,
and that while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us.
Which means that the joy that we experienced, the moment
that we came to know Christ and were saved, is
as valid as when we are in our deepest sin,
because his his redemption of us was real. He knew
(39:17):
all of our sin. He saw us completely, and yet
he still gave his life to redeem us. So the
good news is, no matter how badly you fall and
no matter how much sin you've committed, while there are
consequences to sin, as I mentioned, there is forgiveness, there
is redemption, and there is restoration that you can change
the trend and head in the direction of holiness and righteousness.
(39:38):
I've seen God do this in so many men's lives,
and for those of you listening today, he wants to
do it in your life. Run to him and let
him set you free.
S4 (39:48):
You see, talk to the person who has a loved
one who is involved in sexual sin and a destructive
lifestyle may be a wife. It may be just a friend.
What would you say to that person?
S2 (40:00):
Yeah, well, my heart breaks for them first of all,
because like I said, sin doesn't just affect us. It's
far reaching and it has massive impact. And I think
sometimes there are reasons why people hesitate to do anything.
Sometimes there's just the embarrassment. How do I how do
I talk to this person in my life who's living
in the sin? It's embarrassing. They're humiliated. I don't want
(40:22):
them to feel worse. But that's what love does, right?
It speaks the truth, and it has a confrontational element
to it without needing to be confrontational in the sense
of being harsh or mean, but recognizing that we're sinners
as well, even though our sin may be different, but
approaching that person with intentionality but at the same time
(40:46):
with compassion and with hope, it's hugely important because, like
you said, there is that that element of shame that's
involved there, and there's that sense of hopelessness. But being
able to approach them with truth, but also with the
recognition that this sin only gets worse, right? Sin is enslavement.
As Scripture talks about who you obey, you become that
(41:08):
element's slave in essence. And so you want to you
want to direct them toward help. You want to direct
them toward others who can get into their life and
help them. It's a man accountability and and counsel from
other men and and and direct them toward Christ first
of all. But then those who are servants of Christ,
(41:29):
who can help them in this battle.
S4 (41:31):
Yeah. Talk about the power of prayer in that context.
S5 (41:36):
Mm.
S2 (41:36):
I've often said that prayer is the barometer that tells
us where we're at spiritually as God's people. Because when
you're sitting alone, speaking into the air to a God
whose face you cannot see, whose voice you can't hear,
whose presence you can't feel, it's a true demonstration of
faith that that you know you're doing it despite what
(41:57):
you might even think or believe. And and prayer is,
is the lifeline for every believer. Oftentimes we say, oh,
I guess all I can do is pray. Imagine putting
that in a different way. Oh, I guess all I
can do is talk to the omnipotent, omniscient, Omnipresent, sovereign,
all powerful God of the universe. I guess that's all
I can do. And by the way, the one. The
(42:20):
one who loves me infinitely. That he paid with his
blood to redeem me. Now, look, we have to understand
that it's through crying out to the Lord that we're
going to see intervention in our lives, right? Scripture says
you have not because you ask not. Right. And so
we need to understand those words that James utters it,
that man, we need to cry out to God, casting
(42:40):
your cares upon him. He cares for you, letting your
requests be made known to him, and understanding that that
God divinely works through prayer. It tells us in First
John that if we ask anything according to his will,
he hears us. And if we know he hears us,
we know we have the request we've asked of him,
and we know that his will is that we walk
in purity. I mean, it tells us that in first
Thessalonians four three through eight that that this is the
(43:03):
will of God, that you abstain from sexual immorality, uh,
that you you determine to. To put that off and
walk in holiness. And so it's also a connection with
your God. When you develop that intimacy with him and
that close relationship, it's going to change your desires and
your pursuits as well.
S5 (43:21):
Yeah.
S4 (43:22):
Well, Lisa, I want to thank you for being with
us today because you. You're giving hope to a lot
of men who are struggling in this area. And I
want to thank you also for writing the book. I mean,
I know, I know, it takes time to write a book. Yeah.
And I deeply appreciate what you've done. And to our listeners,
I just want to say, you know, if you're a
(43:43):
wife who's has a husband, you know, he's involved in this,
this would be a good tool whether you give it
to him or a friend gives it to him. But
somebody needs to get it in his hands because it
will help him. So thank you for being with us today,
and may God continue to give you wisdom as you
minister not only in this area, but in other areas,
(44:03):
pointing people to Christ.
S2 (44:05):
It's been an honor, Gary. Thank you again for having me.
And may again the Lord give men victory.
S6 (44:10):
Through the truth.
S2 (44:11):
Of His word, and I hope they're able to mine
that truth from this book. It was a labor of love,
but God was gracious in allowing me to write it.
Thank you again, brother.
S3 (44:19):
Well, there's so much we didn't get to on the
program today. If you go to building relationships us, you'll
see Zane's book Fight Like a man A Biblical Strategy
for achieving Victory in the battle for purity. Again, you
can find out more at building relationships.us.
S4 (44:36):
And coming up next week how to have a mindful marriage.
S1 (44:41):
Don't miss the conversation with Ron and Nandyal in one week.
Before we go, let me thank our production team, Steve
Wick and Janice. Backing building relationships with Doctor Gary Chapman
is a production of Moody Radio in Chicago in association
with Moody Publishers, a ministry of Moody Bible Institute. Thanks
for listening.
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