September 6, 2025 • 44 mins
If you’ve had a traumatic experience and you’re struggling under the weight of its memory, don’t miss this Building Relationships with Dr. Gary Chapman. Author and counselor, Lisa Saruga says trauma is a liar. It claims all hope is lost and that your experience defines you. You’ll hear Lisa’s story and how she moved from survival to wholeness. Don’t miss this life-affirming discussion on Building Relationships with Gary Chapman.
Featured resource: The Trauma Tree: Going Beyond Survival, Growing Toward Wholeness
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Episode Transcript
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S1 (00:01):
If you've experienced a traumatic event in your life, don't
miss today's Building Relationships with Doctor Gary Chapman.
S2 (00:09):
Sometimes we get so focused on our trauma and our pain,
and the horrific wasteland of life that we forget to
look up and notice that there's life all around us,
and the goodness of the Lord is in the land
of the living. Regardless of what trauma you've gone through,
regardless of the pain you've experienced, God's goodness is still here,
(00:29):
and we can still experience his goodness and even joy,
even joy in life after trauma.
S1 (00:39):
Welcome to building relationships with Doctor Gary Chapman, author of
the New York Times best seller The Five Love Languages. Today,
licensed professional counselor and author Lisa Suruga gives help and
hope for those dealing with trauma in their past.
S3 (00:54):
Lisa survived an assault as a college student, and then
the feelings resurfaced Surfaced years later when the cold case
was reopened. So there is a lot of dramatic material
that she's included in the book as she's been faithful
to tell her story. The title of the book is
The Trauma Tree Going Beyond Survival Growing Toward Wholeness. We
(01:17):
have it at the website Building Relationships. I want you
to hear what speaker and author Carol Kent says about
the book. You will be gripped by the author's honesty
and authenticity throughout the chapters of this book. More than that,
you will gain the tools to move from survival mode
to wholeness. And that really is the hope of Lisa's
(01:40):
writing as well as this program today, she says hope
isn't dependent on miraculous healing, justice, or the undoing of
what has already been done. Hope can only be found
in something that is sure, true and unchanging. Now listen
to this. God didn't create us to get over trauma.
(02:02):
He wants to walk with us as we work through it.
And I think just that statement is really encouraging. And
if you have been through some kind of trauma, I
hope it will encourage you as well. You can find
the book at Building Relationships. Again, the title is The
Trauma Tree. And Gary, I think everyone listening to this conversation,
(02:24):
whether you've gone through big T trauma or little T trauma,
we're all going to benefit from what Lisa has to share.
S4 (02:32):
Well, I certainly feel that way, Chris. You know, a
lot of folks have gone through trauma, to be sure.
And then their family members, you know, who have seen
their family member go through trauma. So, yeah. And everybody
is going to run into this sooner or later along
the way in terms of people who have been traumatized.
So yeah, I am excited about our program today.
S5 (02:53):
And one of the things I'm especially.
S3 (02:55):
Listening for is, okay, what do we do in the church?
How do we help others who are going through this?
How can we be part of their healing and wholeness?
So let's meet our guest, Lisa Suruga. Saruga is a
licensed professional counselor, eMDR trauma therapist, speaker, and author. She's
certified as a legal and ethical specialist by the American
(03:18):
School Counselor Association. Her debut book is a featured resource today,
The Trauma Tree, and it signifies a new chapter in
her commitment to empowering others. You can find out more
about it at Building Relationships.
S4 (03:33):
Well, Lisa, welcome to Building Relationships.
S2 (03:36):
Thank you. It's so good to be here with you.
S4 (03:38):
I often see God using wounds in people's lives for healing. Uh,
do you think that's what happened in your. In your
own case.
S2 (03:47):
I do. I really believe that God does not purpose
for us to experience trauma. Um, but he can use
all things for his purposes. And so while the trauma
itself was is an unpleasant experience, there's definitely been healing
in my life and God has used it in remarkable ways.
S4 (04:07):
Yeah, we don't want to ever accuse God of what
people do that is sinful. Right. He takes no pleasure
in that. But we live in a fallen world, and consequently,
we often suffer trauma at the hands of those who
are not following God. So take us back to your
college days. What were your hopes and dreams at that
(04:29):
season of your life?
S2 (04:31):
I was so excited to be at college. I, uh,
my whole life I had wanted to be a musician. Um,
I am a musician and was studying music. Uh, music
education in college. And so I was participating in the
one of the top marching bands in the country and, um,
singing and just doing all kinds of great things and
(04:53):
meeting really wonderful people. So I was just really hopeful
for my music future at that point.
S4 (04:58):
Yeah. So it was there that you experienced the trauma that, uh,
a lot of our listeners, unfortunately, are going to identify with.
Is it important to warn people who might feel triggered
in this area?
S2 (05:13):
Absolutely. What happened to me has happened to many, many people.
And I think as we talk about the story, it's
important to just really ground ourselves. Remind yourself, you know,
you're safe right now. I'm safe. Plant your feet on
the ground and and know that you're here. It's now
and we're safe.
S4 (05:31):
Yeah. So take us back to that night and tell
us what happened.
S2 (05:37):
So I was alone in my dorm room, and the
the last friend who had left had left the door unlocked.
So I woke up in the middle of the night
and discovered there was a man in a ski mask
crouched next to my bed. And what what happened that
morning was just very violent. Um, I was nearly suffocated.
(05:59):
I was knifed, and I was raped, and I survived.
That's important.
S4 (06:06):
Well, you know, I think when we just hear what
you just said, there has to be a sense of
pain in the heart of anybody that has empathy. You know,
think about your own daughter or son or whatever. And
and unfortunately, this happens all too often, not only in
(06:26):
our culture, but really around the world.
S2 (06:29):
Yeah.
S4 (06:30):
So they didn't catch the perpetrator, and you wanted to
move on with your life. Just just get it behind you. Um,
were you able to do that.
S2 (06:40):
For a long time? I was. And the way I
handled my trauma is, is very common. A lot of
people who have experienced trauma don't even realize it. They
kind of want to call it no big deal. And
that's what I did. I just didn't want this to
define me. I didn't want to talk about it. I
did what I needed to do, I reported it, I
(07:01):
went to the hospital. Um, but then I didn't talk
about it again. I just filed it away in the
back of my mind and thought life was good before.
I just need to pick up where we left off
and continue on. The problem with that is I didn't
do any counseling. I didn't do anything to help get
through the processing of that trauma. Yeah, and that worked
(07:21):
for a while.
S4 (07:23):
Yeah. So years later, the case was reopened. How did
you respond to that?
S2 (07:32):
And that's where that kind of coping did not work anymore.
This was 35 years after the trauma had occurred. I
got a phone call from the police at that campus, um,
to tell me that somebody had called the police and
reported the identity of the man in the ski mask
from 35 years before. I, by this point was a
(07:55):
trauma therapist. I worked with people with PTSD. But in
that moment, I finally knew exactly what PTSD or PTSD
is because I experienced it firsthand. All that unprocessed trauma
lives in our brain forever in a subconscious part of
our brain called the amygdala. When my cold case reopened,
(08:16):
it triggered that amygdala, and it just released all of
the emotions and chemicals and hormones that were released at
the time of the trauma. And it was like I
was 18 years old again and had just experienced. I
could remember every single detail of that day, and it
really did trigger me into a season of dealing with
(08:37):
post-traumatic stress symptoms, you know, nightmares and and dreaming that
I was drowning. I would dream that I was drowning
and remember, I was nearly suffocated. So it was all
tied together.
S4 (08:49):
Yeah.
S2 (08:50):
Yeah, it was devastating.
S4 (08:52):
Was the man prosecuted?
S2 (08:54):
He was not. It was a long, drawn out process
before we discovered that while there's no statute of limitations
in Michigan on a crime of that violent nature, now,
there was when when it occurred. And we can't retroactively
remove statutes of limitations. So basically, he hid his identity
(09:15):
long enough that he beat the system.
S4 (09:19):
There had to be feelings in your heart and mind
at that time about that man. Can you share what
you were feeling and thinking at that juncture?
S2 (09:30):
I think in that moment, all the fear came back.
I realized this man is still out there. He's still alive.
Who knows how many people he's harmed. And I was
pretty scared. And then I was notified by the attorney
General's office that there were some safety issues, because this
man is very violent, and they thought he was looking
(09:52):
for me. So fear was probably the the dominating emotion
at that time.
S4 (09:59):
Yeah. Well, in your book you talk about different types
of trauma that people face. You you talk about some
big T traumas and some little T traumas. Mhm. Tell
us what you mean or explain some of those.
S2 (10:15):
Yeah. Big T trauma are the, the catastrophic events that
we think of in life. And big T trauma is
life threatening or life altering. It's usually a one time occurrence. Um,
and it can include things like violent crime, severe accidents,
natural disasters, loss of a child. The big catastrophic events
(10:35):
that we think of would be big t trauma, little
t trauma. Um, sometimes we don't take as seriously, and
it can be chronic. So I'm talking about non life
threatening events such as perhaps child abuse or neglect. That's
not life threatening. Um, bullying, divorce, financial difficulty. Those are
(10:58):
traumatic events that are not life threatening. Unfortunately, right now,
the DSM five, when we diagnose post-traumatic stress disorder or PTSD,
the guidelines say you have to have experienced a big
T trauma. And I think that's unfortunate because chronic little
T trauma impacts the brain the exact same way a
big T trauma does. Um, so both are significant. And
(11:22):
I think it's important to point out what what trauma
is not. Uh, we overuse that word. You know, I
think of my teenage kids years ago coming home and
saying lunch was horrible, I was traumatized. That's not trauma.
That's that's drama.
S4 (11:37):
Yeah. Drama is much different from trauma.
S2 (11:41):
Yes it.
S4 (11:42):
Is. Yeah. So do you think that you moved toward
becoming a therapist because of this traumatic experience?
S2 (11:51):
Absolutely. Yeah. I never intended to study anything but music. Um,
and about a year after the event, I changed my
major to political science and decided I was going to
go into law. I wanted to be a prosecuting attorney
and put men in masks behind bars.
S4 (12:08):
Um.
S2 (12:08):
And I finished that out, and I applied to law
school and got in and started working, uh, in a
clerkship and discovered that rapists were not going to jail. Today,
only about 2.5% of rapists go to jail.
S4 (12:22):
Wow.
S2 (12:23):
And it's very quickly dawned on me that as long
as there's going to be rapists out there, there's going
to be a need for counselors. And so I immediately
dropped out of law school and started graduate school and became, um,
a therapist.
S4 (12:39):
You continued in the same college or university where you
were when this happened?
S2 (12:45):
I did. You know, a lot of people were saying,
you need to go home, you need to take some
time off. And I knew if I did that, it
was not going to be good. I needed to keep moving.
So I was right back to class the next Monday
and right back into all of my activities. Yeah, I
never did leave that school and I loved my college.
S4 (13:03):
Yeah. Yeah. Was it difficult to go through the training
to become a counselor like you are now because of
what you had gone through and you're studying all that now?
Was that was that hard for you?
S2 (13:17):
You know, I think in some ways it made me
more passionate to learn to be a counselor. Mhm. Um,
I don't remember being retraumatized or, or struggling at that time.
And part of that I think, is I still had
that filed away in the back of my mind. I
wasn't going to think about it.
S4 (13:35):
Yeah.
S2 (13:35):
And so I was I was dissociated, you know, emotionally
from what had happened to me. So at the time, no,
I don't remember that being difficult.
S4 (13:44):
Well, most listeners will have heard You know, PTSD, post-traumatic
stress disorder. But you prefer PTSD. What is that?
S2 (13:58):
So the DSM still calls our the response to big
T trauma, post-traumatic stress disorder. And there are many of
us in the field who are questioning that terminology, because
to me, a disorder is something that you're born with
that may or may not be curable, might be treatable.
(14:19):
We're not born with PTSD. This is an injury that
happens to us later. And so I call it post-traumatic
stress injury. I think that there's a lot of research
to show that our brain is injured when we suffer
big T trauma and chronic little T trauma. You know,
we can see that the amygdala grows and the hippocampus shrinks.
(14:39):
I won't go into all the science weeds of that,
but our brain does change when we experience trauma. And, um,
and I think it's important to acknowledge this as an injury,
injuries can be healed, which is what a blessing that is. Yeah.
But also, you know, when I think about our military,
(15:00):
we have a lot of people who leave the military
with post-traumatic stress injuries.
S4 (15:05):
Yeah.
S2 (15:06):
I think it's really unfortunate that, you know, if somebody
is injured, maybe, maybe their eardrum ruptures because they've been
exposed to a loud noise in the military. They get
a Purple Heart for that injury. But we don't do
the same thing for people with post-traumatic stress injuries. They
don't get a Purple Heart. It's not acknowledged as an injury.
And I think it's important that we start acknowledging that.
S4 (15:27):
Mhm. Mhm.
S5 (15:29):
How would you suggest.
S3 (15:30):
We do that.
S2 (15:31):
I would love to see the DSM change the terminology used. Um,
and I know there are many in the field who
are kind of fighting to have that done. Yeah. And
I think shows like yours where we can talk about
this as an injury. It's important to just get the
word out that this is not something you're born with.
It's not something that is wrong with you. It's a
(15:53):
natural response to unnatural circumstances.
S4 (15:58):
Yeah, well, I think our listeners who are hearing this
are in their minds saying, yes, yes, you're right. It's
not a disorder. Something I was born with. It is
an injury and there's healing for injuries. Yeah. Mhm. Now
you use the analogy of a pear tree to explain
trauma recovery. Tell us more about that.
S2 (16:21):
When I wrote this book I wanted it to be
something palatable to somebody who is experiencing trauma or in crisis.
So I didn't want to get too academic and I
didn't want to go too deep. I do use examples
of traumas that people have experienced, but for the most part,
we follow the story of this tree. And it's a
(16:41):
true story about my little pear tree that was injured
and suffered a trauma. And I think there was just
so much that we could learn from that tree. And
the fact that it was designed by God with everything
it needed to heal and to flourish. And we are too.
And so I used that analogy or that metaphor, um,
to bring in different concepts of healing in such a
(17:03):
way that it wouldn't be retraumatizing for someone to read.
S4 (17:07):
So what trauma did your pear tree have?
S2 (17:11):
My pear tree. We received this little. It was called
a new Bradford pear, not a Bradford pear. It was
a new and improved Bradford pear tree we received for
as a wedding gift. And, uh, really nurtured that tree
for about a year before we planted it. And when
we planted it, it was in the shadow of a big,
ugly pine tree. And my husband cut the pine tree
(17:33):
down and it landed on the pear tree. Oh, no.
And we were left with two. A stick with two
branches sticking out. It just destroyed the tree. Yeah. So
that was that was the damage. And that tree. Um,
because it was a wedding gift, was representative of a
lot of things in life. And so, um, the little
(17:55):
tree's trauma was our trauma, too.
S4 (17:58):
Yeah. Wow. Well, did the tree survive?
S2 (18:02):
The tree flourished. And you have to. You have to
read the book to see the whole story on that.
But the tree absolutely flourished. Yeah.
S5 (18:12):
Was that mirroring.
S3 (18:13):
Then, of your own experience? That a lot of times
when I think about tree or plants, you don't see
because if you're really close to it, you can't see
the growth, you can't see the life that is there.
You know, from day to day. It's over time that
you see that. Did that mirror what happened in your
own heart?
S2 (18:33):
Oh, I think yeah, I think you're right on track
with that. Um, we don't often notice our own growth
because we're staring it in the face. Right? We see
the trauma. We don't always notice the growth. Um, this
particular tree grew so fast and healed so fast that, um,
it was really remarkable to see. And, you know, if
(18:55):
we use the right techniques and we allow God into
the process, we can do the same thing. We can
grow and flourish, too. It's not a given that we
grow after trauma, but it is possible.
S3 (19:08):
So you had to make a choice. See, that's really
interesting because I wonder if you saw evidence of growth
or did it take somebody else speaking into your own
life to say, hey, look at this, Lisa. Look at
how far you've come. Um, did you feel like you
you moved past, let's say, you know, the nightmares that
(19:29):
you might have had or the feelings that came up
if you saw of some person in a ski mask
on TV, you know, was that part of the growth
that you felt?
S2 (19:40):
Oh, yeah. Yeah. It's interesting that you said that about
seeing ski masks on TV, because there was a a
series of commercials that came out that featured a guy
in a ski mask, and they were supposed to be funny,
and I never found them funny. I was very triggered
by ski masks. Yeah. And and that's funny that you
said that, because that was one of the first things
(20:00):
I noticed was I could watch that commercial and not
be triggered.
S3 (20:04):
Hmm.
S2 (20:05):
Healing takes time and effort. And it wasn't until after
the cold case that was reopened that I finally sought
godly counsel, and I finally started talking about the trauma.
Even with my loved ones, I didn't talk to my family.
My adult children had no idea what I had experienced,
and just allowing people into our trauma and our pain
(20:27):
is so healing in and of itself. Yeah. To to
build those support networks that we need and to, to really,
you know, face the trauma really in through therapy. Really
good therapy. It made a huge difference in my life.
And yeah, I think, I think it's you don't always
notice your progress before others do. So definitely other people
(20:51):
were pointing that out.
S4 (20:53):
Yeah, I'm sure there are listeners who have been through
trauma and like you for a long time, they have
just tried to forget it, you know, take it out
of their mind and ignore it. But and maybe, maybe
a case resurfacing doesn't happen in their life. They're still
(21:15):
in that stage and they're hearing this and it's stirring
up things inside of them right now. Would you encourage
that person to reach out for counseling at this juncture,
even though it may have been a number of years
earlier when the trauma took place?
S2 (21:32):
Absolutely. I think it's important to remember that trauma lives
in the subconscious part of our brain, and it lives
there forever. It is unchanged until we do something to
address it. I was speaking to a women's group not
long ago, and when I was done speaking, a 90
year old woman came up to me. She was blind
and she said, I've never told anybody, but I experienced
(21:55):
something similar. And she said, is it too late to
get counseling?
S4 (22:00):
Mhm.
S2 (22:00):
And I said, absolutely not. Right. I mean yes she's
90 years old, but if it's going to help her
heal and I believe that certain therapies are very healing. Yeah.
It was not too late and we were able to
connect her to a therapist.
S3 (22:15):
Yeah. I'm wondering what happened when you shared with your family,
your kids, especially what your expectation was of what their
response might have been and what their response actually was?
S2 (22:27):
I think telling people about your trauma is, is one
of the hardest parts of experiencing trauma, because back when
it happened and I had to tell my parents it's
retraumatising to experience their trauma because they're going to have
some secondary trauma there. Yeah. So it was it was
scary to tell my adult kids, I have, uh, I
(22:49):
had two adult sons at the time. My one adult
son just happened to be at the house when I
got the phone call. And, I mean, I fell apart.
I fell to the floor. I was crying. I didn't
know I couldn't make sense of my emotions at all.
And my husband's instinct was to go out and get
my son and bring him in. And it was it
(23:09):
was beautiful that he did that, because this was tangible
evidence that I had survived and life had gone on
and life was good. And so that was very, very
helpful and comforting to me. Both of my boys are
I'm just so blessed because they were so caring and
loving and understanding. They didn't act shocked. They just comforted. And,
(23:34):
you know, that's exactly what I needed from them. So
we don't always get that when we tell people. But
I was very blessed.
S3 (23:43):
So why do people keep that silent if there is,
if there's real healing, you know, why do people hang
on to this themselves and not share it with others?
S2 (23:55):
There are so many reasons that people do that, and
part of it is to avoid the retraumatisation. Um, part
of it is fear. Part of is embarrassment. We don't
want retaliation. There's, you know, there's just so many reasons
that people choose not to talk about their trauma.
S1 (24:17):
This is the building Relationships with Doctor Gary Chapman podcast.
He's the author of the New York Times bestseller The
Five Love Languages. We're talking with author and counselor Lisa Suruga. Today.
She's written our featured resource at Five Love Languages. It's
titled The Trauma Tree going beyond survival, growing toward wholeness.
(24:38):
Just go to five love languages.
S4 (24:44):
Lisa, what about the role of forgiveness in this whole
thing of processing trauma? What role does forgiveness play?
S2 (24:53):
I think that first we need to define forgiveness, because forgiveness,
I think, is very important in our healing process. But
forgiveness is not the idea of saying what you did
was okay. What happened to me was okay. That's that's
not what forgiveness is. Forgiveness, I think, is more for
us personally. When I forgive somebody for doing something, that
(25:15):
means I'm not going to hold on to that pain.
I'm not going to be held captive by that memory anymore.
I'm letting go of that. And the reason I say
that is because sometimes we've been our trauma could be
at the hands of somebody that we loved, and maybe
we're going to forgive them in that way and say,
you know, I want to reconcile, but reconciliation is not
(25:39):
it's not mandated. When we forgive. I was never I
never had a relationship with this man in the ski mask.
I don't want to reconcile with him. It wouldn't be
safe to write. And there are some people who experience
trauma at the hands of, um, maybe a relative or
a friend that they have to see again, but it's
not safe to have a relationship. So. So I guess
(26:00):
looking at what forgiveness is and is not is really important. Yeah.
And the other thing is, when I work with clients,
I don't talk about forgiveness right out of the gate.
I don't think it needs to be the first thing
that happens. I think there's a lot of healing that
needs to happen, and then we can lay that down
and say, okay, I'm leaving this at the foot of
the cross. I'm not going to carry this with me anymore.
(26:22):
I'm forgiving and letting go.
S4 (26:25):
You know, Lisa, I often use the word release rather
than forgiveness. And I'll tell you why. Releasing it to God.
You know, the scriptures say we're to forgive others in
the same way God forgives us. Well, when does God
forgive us? When we confess our sins? God does not
(26:46):
forgive everybody. God forgives people who confess their sins. So
I just that's why I prefer to use that word release,
which is exactly what you're describing, is that we come
to the place where they have not apologized, they've not repented.
You know, and in your case, we have no relationship
with them. So what we're doing is saying, God, you know,
(27:09):
the trauma of all of this. You know, the person,
you know where they are now and their journey. But
I just want to release them to you. I want
to turn them over to you and turn all my
hurt over to you and just and just release them.
It's sometimes called by other people one sided forgiveness, which, again,
is what you're describing. You know, uh, I guess I've
(27:29):
just found the word release better. Yeah. Better than forgive.
You understand what I'm saying?
S2 (27:35):
I do. And I completely agree with you, I have to.
I hope it's okay to share here. God provided me
an opportunity that I will just forever be grateful for.
And that is, I was able to meet the perpetrator.
S6 (27:49):
Hmm hmm.
S2 (27:51):
There's a documentary being filmed on my story, and as
part of that, he was under surveillance for a while,
and I was able to confront him. And for me,
that that moment of release was when I saw him.
He didn't speak to me, but I was able to
speak to him. I gave him a Bible, and I
gave him a letter, and I talked to him about
(28:14):
release that I'm releasing this. This is no longer going
to rule my life. Yeah. And to hand him that
Bible and to feel so calm as I handed him
the Bible and to see fear in his face.
S6 (28:27):
Mhm.
S2 (28:28):
Was very healing. Not that I wanted to see fear
in his face, But you know what? If he has fear,
maybe he'll read that Bible. Maybe he'll find Christ and
he'll find forgiveness there. But it was a release for me.
S6 (28:43):
Well.
S4 (28:44):
Absolutely. You know, you're doing another biblical thing, and that
is return good for evil. You know, you were you
were violated in a violent way. But here you are
all these years later when you had that chance to
see him, you were doing something good. You know, you're
giving him a Bible and you're giving him a letter,
(29:04):
you know, describing that you're releasing this, you know, and
you're expressing concern about his destiny because we know God
can forgive people like that who have done horrible things.
You know, if they repent.
S2 (29:18):
God revealed to me in an incredibly powerful way that,
you know, he wants that none should perish.
S6 (29:25):
Yeah.
S2 (29:26):
And and that no one is too far. No one
is too far for God to reach.
S6 (29:31):
Yeah.
S3 (29:32):
But that was a progressive thing, it sounds like to me.
And most people who have the kind of trauma that
you went through are not going to have that face
to face moment. Where did you release and forgive? Uh,
several times over the years, or did you have to
go through a process of that, choosing that each day?
S2 (29:54):
I think I will choose that each day for the
rest of my life. I just don't think forgiveness is
a one and done thing. There's always going to be
something that reminds us and then we need to let
go again.
S4 (30:05):
Well, I'm sure that many of our listeners are feeling
exactly what I'm feeling through all this. I mean, it's
your story, and what you just shared with us is
very moving, and it's demonstrating the response God wants us
to have to those who treat us terribly. Well, describe
the concept that you call post-traumatic growth.
S2 (30:29):
Yeah, there's actually been research done on post-traumatic growth. And
Tedeschi and Calhoun are the the researchers. And what they
found was, you know, we often hear whatever doesn't kill
you makes you stronger. And unfortunately, that's not true for everybody. Um,
the study showed that about 60% of people actually grow
(30:51):
after experienced trauma. That means 40% struggle, right? And they
found that there are five measurable components to growing after
after trauma. The first one is that we end up
with a greater appreciation of life, and we start to
prioritize gratitude in life. That would be one sign of growth.
(31:12):
The next is that relationships with others change. So some
of them grow stronger. And sometimes we need to prune
back some of our relationships that maybe are not healthy.
The third thing is new possibilities in life. We kind
of lose that fear to follow our of our dreams
if we've grown after trauma. You know, if we can
survive this, we can survive trying other things, too. The
(31:36):
fourth thing is personal strength. And I say the sweetest
byproduct of acknowledging personal strength is that we come out
with optimism. And then the fifth thing, and I think
this is so crucial, is that science points to God.
Because the fifth elements that they noticed in growth is
spiritual change, and that people who found that prayer and
(31:58):
reliance on God led, led to healing, were able to
grow more through their experiences. So I think that knowing
a little bit more about post-traumatic growth, you know, maybe,
maybe we'll find ways to really help that other 40%
to also grow.
S4 (32:15):
Well, I'm glad you included the research in the book
because I think, yeah, what you just shared. I can
see a person thinking through that, working through that, that's
that's going to be helpful to them. Yeah. Mhm.
S3 (32:27):
Well and in a lot of ways we get back
to the pear tree there too don't we.
S2 (32:32):
It all goes back to the pear tree. Yeah. And
the partridge that's in the pear tree at the end
of the book too. I don't know.
S6 (32:41):
Okay. Yeah. Okay. Okay.
S4 (32:43):
Oh I can't imagine somebody listening to us today and
not wanting to go out and buy this book.
S6 (32:48):
Yeah. Even if they've never experienced trauma. Oh.
S4 (32:54):
Well, throughout the book, you highlight Psalm 27, chapter 27,
verse 13. I'm going to read it. It says, I
remain confident of this. I will see the goodness of
the Lord in the land of the living. End of quote.
Why is that verse significant to you?
S2 (33:15):
So shortly after my cold case was reopened, um, my
husband recognized that I was struggling and he said, you
know what? We can do whatever you want today, Wherever
you want to go. We're gonna do whatever you want
to do. And I burst into tears and said, I
just want to run away. And he said, where do
we want to go? And I said, I just want
(33:37):
to be alone. I don't know where I want to go.
I just, I need to get out. So my husband
packed my bags into the car and said, you don't
have to tell me where you're going. Just let me
know you're safe when you get there. And he helped
me run away. And, um, on that day, I stopped
and bought some journaling materials, and I returned to the
scene of the crime, and I sat under the window
(33:59):
of the room where it happened. And the very first
scripture verse that I wrote into my journal was Psalm 2713.
And at the time I thought, I don't want to
wait till the next lifetime for justice, right? Why would
God let this be reopened now? And in my mind,
I saw this as a promise that I was going
to get justice in this lifetime, in the land of
(34:21):
the living, that I was going to get justice, and
I was going to get closure. I was not correct.
The justice doesn't always look like what we think it
will look like, but we do have a just God
and justice will happen. We're not promised closure in this lifetime.
This is not our home. Closure comes in the next lifetime.
So I kept revisiting this this Psalm and wondering why
(34:44):
did God reopen this if I'm not going to get
justice and closure? After about a year of journaling, I
read it again and I thought, I'm going to see
the goodness of the Lord in the land of the living.
Not the justice, not the closure, but the goodness of
the Lord. And I think sometimes we get so focused
on our trauma and our pain and the horrific wasteland
(35:05):
of life that we forget to look up and notice
that there's life all around us, and the goodness of
the Lord is in the land of the living. Regardless
of what trauma you've gone through, regardless of the pain
you've experienced, God's goodness is still here, and we can
still experience his goodness and even joy, even joy in
life after trauma.
S4 (35:26):
And that's good news.
S6 (35:27):
Mhm.
S4 (35:29):
Lisa, you emphasize the importance of looking beyond ourselves as
a step toward healing. Why is it that outward focus
so crucial to the recovery process?
S2 (35:42):
I think when we experience not just trauma but depression, anxiety,
any of those darker times in life, it's kind of
a natural that we focus inward. We're not feeling well.
And so we're focused on how we're feeling and what's
going on in our life. And in a way that's unavoidable.
At first, I think that's what we need to do,
but eventually we need to look outside of ourselves. We
(36:05):
need to again look up from the chaos and see
God's goodness in life. It's very healing when we start
to focus on others. And, you know, I'm reminded of
Second Corinthians one, the father of compassion and the God
of all comfort, who comforts us in our times of
trouble so that we can comfort those in any trouble
(36:25):
with the same comfort that we've received, right? Yeah. The
words so that in that scripture stand out to me.
God comforts us so that we know how to comfort others.
There's a purpose in that. And so I think part
of that healing process is to accept that comfort from God,
to do some healing. Enough healing that we now can
(36:46):
look at others and go, you know what? There's hope
for you too. And let me tell you how you
can be comforted. I think that's a part of the
healing process.
S4 (36:55):
So in your connection with people over the years, which
you have done in the counseling framework, I'm sure you've
seen these principles that you have in the book here being,
you know, fleshed out in real life with people. What
does that look like for you to be able to
help others? Like in that context.
S2 (37:14):
I can say that that's been a huge part of
my own healing process. It is such a blessing to
be able to reach out to others who have experienced
trauma and to say there's hope, there's a future, there's
still goodness in life. You know, I do eMDR therapy
and to see a client just transformed from that dead inside, sad,
(37:40):
you know, person in pain to somebody who really, truly
sees hope and who is able to experience joy again,
there is something healing and transformative about that.
S4 (37:52):
Yeah.
S2 (37:52):
Yeah. It's a blessing to see others heal.
S4 (37:55):
Yeah, absolutely. Do you support legislative changes concerning justice for survivors? Uh,
what have been the areas of greatest concern to you
in those efforts?
S2 (38:09):
So I've mentioned that only 2.5% of rapists go to jail. And, um,
my own case, actually, it's kind of the perfect case
to outline where the loops and the gaps, the. The
loopholes and gaps in our laws are. So I took
my story to Lansing, Michigan, to the state legislators and
told the story and then said, and here's why he
(38:31):
didn't go to jail. And here's what you can do
to fix these laws that led to opportunities to go
to Washington, D.C.. I have met with members of Congress
in D.C., and there are many little nuances in our
laws that prevent us from sending rapists to jail, and
some of them are at the federal level, some are
(38:51):
at the state level, and the two kind of fight
each other because of laws that kind of prohibit each
other from prosecuting. Um, so I'm just kind of using
my story to outline where those difficulties are and how
we can fix them. Yeah, a lot of them tie
back to statutes of limitations.
S4 (39:12):
So what victories have you seen and what do you
hope happens in the future legislatively?
S2 (39:18):
I think the victories so far are just that I
have the ear of Congress and I'm able to to
talk with them. Um, legislation and change is very slow
and very difficult. I can remember being in Washington, D.C.,
at one point talking to a senator who was expressing
that she just didn't see any hope that this would
(39:40):
ever change and that, you know, part of what we
need to do is to overturn a Supreme Court decision.
And she said the Supreme Court never overturns decisions. And
I was discouraged. Um, but the next morning, I woke
up in Roe versus Wade had just been overturned. And
I heard back from that senator who said, okay, well,
I was wrong. They did overturn a decision. And, um,
(40:03):
and in a way that was helpful because for the
Supreme Court to overturn Roe versus Wade, it would behoove
them to show that we're also going to, um, stand
up for victims of sexual assault, who, you know, this
could end up in an unwanted pregnancy. So we've used
that as leverage to say, okay, now show that you're
(40:24):
going to protect people too, because a lot of these
people who are going for abortions are going because they've
been assaulted. Right. So so let's do something to stop
that too. So, you know, we just go one step
at a time and God keeps opening doors and we'll
see where he takes it.
S4 (40:40):
Well, let me come in to you for what you're
doing in that area because this issue certainly needs to
be addressed. So thank you for doing that.
S2 (40:50):
Thank you.
S4 (40:51):
Well, Lisa, as we come to the end of our
time together today, how can family, friends or faith community?
You know, the church rally around both the traumatized and
the and those who love them?
S2 (41:07):
That is such a good question. Thank you for asking that.
You know, I look at the book of job and
job experienced trauma like no other, right? Big T trauma
on top of big T trauma and his friends came
to support him, and at first they did exactly the
right thing. They just sat with him and comforted. They
(41:27):
didn't ask questions. They didn't. They didn't say much of anything.
They were just with him. And then they kind of
blew it. After a few days, they started thinking, okay,
why did this happen to job? And how do I
make sure it doesn't happen to me? And then they
start saying, okay, job, you know, what sin did you commit?
We need to avoid that kind of blaming and shaming.
And it happens so naturally because we don't want the
(41:52):
same trauma to happen to us. I think it's important
that we stay focused on the person who's experienced the trauma. Really,
it's it's about just physically being there with them at
first and talking about it. So many times people don't
talk about trauma because they don't want to hurt the
person that's experienced trauma, but then that person starts to
feel like their trauma didn't matter. And so I think
(42:14):
it's important to to acknowledge the trauma. Check in with
that person from time to time. You know, we talk
about churches bringing meals to people, and that sounds like
just such a cliche, simple thing to do. But it's
it's actually perfect. We want to meet those first basic
biological needs of that person first. Right. And so if
(42:34):
a healthy meal is something that's going to meet those needs,
bring them a healthy meal. And the great advantage to
that is now you're there in person and you can
check in on them and you can express your love
and your your support for them. So I think it's
just a matter of looking for ways to touch base
and acknowledge the pain. Don't ignore it. They need to
(42:54):
hear that, you know.
S4 (42:56):
Well, Lisa, I want to thank you for being with
us today. Uh, this has been an amazing interview and
a very emotional interview. And this book offers a real
hope for people in trauma. So I just thanks for
for the way you've handled your journey and for the
fact that you have written this book to help others
and doing other things that you're doing in your sphere
(43:20):
of influence to help others. So thank you again for
being with us today.
S2 (43:24):
Thank you so much.
S3 (43:26):
We've heard a path toward real hope today from Lisa Suruga.
And if you want to read more about her story,
go to Building Relationships. Her book is linked right there.
The trauma tree going beyond survival, growing toward wholeness. Again,
just go to building relationships.
S4 (43:45):
And coming up next week, if you feel like all
you want to do is yell at your husband, don't
miss an encouraging conversation in one week.
S1 (43:55):
Before we go, let me thank our production team, Steve
Wick and Janice. Backing. Building relationships with Doctor Gary Chapman
is a production of Moody Radio in Chicago, in association
with Moody Publishers, a ministry of Moody Bible Institute. Thanks
for listening.
If you've experienced a traumatic event in your life, don't
miss today's Building Relationships with Doctor Gary Chapman.
S2 (00:09):
Sometimes we get so focused on our trauma and our pain,
and the horrific wasteland of life that we forget to
look up and notice that there's life all around us,
and the goodness of the Lord is in the land
of the living. Regardless of what trauma you've gone through,
regardless of the pain you've experienced, God's goodness is still here,
(00:29):
and we can still experience his goodness and even joy,
even joy in life after trauma.
S1 (00:39):
Welcome to building relationships with Doctor Gary Chapman, author of
the New York Times best seller The Five Love Languages. Today,
licensed professional counselor and author Lisa Suruga gives help and
hope for those dealing with trauma in their past.
S3 (00:54):
Lisa survived an assault as a college student, and then
the feelings resurfaced Surfaced years later when the cold case
was reopened. So there is a lot of dramatic material
that she's included in the book as she's been faithful
to tell her story. The title of the book is
The Trauma Tree Going Beyond Survival Growing Toward Wholeness. We
(01:17):
have it at the website Building Relationships. I want you
to hear what speaker and author Carol Kent says about
the book. You will be gripped by the author's honesty
and authenticity throughout the chapters of this book. More than that,
you will gain the tools to move from survival mode
to wholeness. And that really is the hope of Lisa's
(01:40):
writing as well as this program today, she says hope
isn't dependent on miraculous healing, justice, or the undoing of
what has already been done. Hope can only be found
in something that is sure, true and unchanging. Now listen
to this. God didn't create us to get over trauma.
(02:02):
He wants to walk with us as we work through it.
And I think just that statement is really encouraging. And
if you have been through some kind of trauma, I
hope it will encourage you as well. You can find
the book at Building Relationships. Again, the title is The
Trauma Tree. And Gary, I think everyone listening to this conversation,
(02:24):
whether you've gone through big T trauma or little T trauma,
we're all going to benefit from what Lisa has to share.
S4 (02:32):
Well, I certainly feel that way, Chris. You know, a
lot of folks have gone through trauma, to be sure.
And then their family members, you know, who have seen
their family member go through trauma. So, yeah. And everybody
is going to run into this sooner or later along
the way in terms of people who have been traumatized.
So yeah, I am excited about our program today.
S5 (02:53):
And one of the things I'm especially.
S3 (02:55):
Listening for is, okay, what do we do in the church?
How do we help others who are going through this?
How can we be part of their healing and wholeness?
So let's meet our guest, Lisa Suruga. Saruga is a
licensed professional counselor, eMDR trauma therapist, speaker, and author. She's
certified as a legal and ethical specialist by the American
(03:18):
School Counselor Association. Her debut book is a featured resource today,
The Trauma Tree, and it signifies a new chapter in
her commitment to empowering others. You can find out more
about it at Building Relationships.
S4 (03:33):
Well, Lisa, welcome to Building Relationships.
S2 (03:36):
Thank you. It's so good to be here with you.
S4 (03:38):
I often see God using wounds in people's lives for healing. Uh,
do you think that's what happened in your. In your
own case.
S2 (03:47):
I do. I really believe that God does not purpose
for us to experience trauma. Um, but he can use
all things for his purposes. And so while the trauma
itself was is an unpleasant experience, there's definitely been healing
in my life and God has used it in remarkable ways.
S4 (04:07):
Yeah, we don't want to ever accuse God of what
people do that is sinful. Right. He takes no pleasure
in that. But we live in a fallen world, and consequently,
we often suffer trauma at the hands of those who
are not following God. So take us back to your
college days. What were your hopes and dreams at that
(04:29):
season of your life?
S2 (04:31):
I was so excited to be at college. I, uh,
my whole life I had wanted to be a musician. Um,
I am a musician and was studying music. Uh, music
education in college. And so I was participating in the
one of the top marching bands in the country and, um,
singing and just doing all kinds of great things and
(04:53):
meeting really wonderful people. So I was just really hopeful
for my music future at that point.
S4 (04:58):
Yeah. So it was there that you experienced the trauma that, uh,
a lot of our listeners, unfortunately, are going to identify with.
Is it important to warn people who might feel triggered
in this area?
S2 (05:13):
Absolutely. What happened to me has happened to many, many people.
And I think as we talk about the story, it's
important to just really ground ourselves. Remind yourself, you know,
you're safe right now. I'm safe. Plant your feet on
the ground and and know that you're here. It's now
and we're safe.
S4 (05:31):
Yeah. So take us back to that night and tell
us what happened.
S2 (05:37):
So I was alone in my dorm room, and the
the last friend who had left had left the door unlocked.
So I woke up in the middle of the night
and discovered there was a man in a ski mask
crouched next to my bed. And what what happened that
morning was just very violent. Um, I was nearly suffocated.
(05:59):
I was knifed, and I was raped, and I survived.
That's important.
S4 (06:06):
Well, you know, I think when we just hear what
you just said, there has to be a sense of
pain in the heart of anybody that has empathy. You know,
think about your own daughter or son or whatever. And
and unfortunately, this happens all too often, not only in
(06:26):
our culture, but really around the world.
S2 (06:29):
Yeah.
S4 (06:30):
So they didn't catch the perpetrator, and you wanted to
move on with your life. Just just get it behind you. Um,
were you able to do that.
S2 (06:40):
For a long time? I was. And the way I
handled my trauma is, is very common. A lot of
people who have experienced trauma don't even realize it. They
kind of want to call it no big deal. And
that's what I did. I just didn't want this to
define me. I didn't want to talk about it. I
did what I needed to do, I reported it, I
(07:01):
went to the hospital. Um, but then I didn't talk
about it again. I just filed it away in the
back of my mind and thought life was good before.
I just need to pick up where we left off
and continue on. The problem with that is I didn't
do any counseling. I didn't do anything to help get
through the processing of that trauma. Yeah, and that worked
(07:21):
for a while.
S4 (07:23):
Yeah. So years later, the case was reopened. How did
you respond to that?
S2 (07:32):
And that's where that kind of coping did not work anymore.
This was 35 years after the trauma had occurred. I
got a phone call from the police at that campus, um,
to tell me that somebody had called the police and
reported the identity of the man in the ski mask
from 35 years before. I, by this point was a
(07:55):
trauma therapist. I worked with people with PTSD. But in
that moment, I finally knew exactly what PTSD or PTSD
is because I experienced it firsthand. All that unprocessed trauma
lives in our brain forever in a subconscious part of
our brain called the amygdala. When my cold case reopened,
(08:16):
it triggered that amygdala, and it just released all of
the emotions and chemicals and hormones that were released at
the time of the trauma. And it was like I
was 18 years old again and had just experienced. I
could remember every single detail of that day, and it
really did trigger me into a season of dealing with
(08:37):
post-traumatic stress symptoms, you know, nightmares and and dreaming that
I was drowning. I would dream that I was drowning
and remember, I was nearly suffocated. So it was all
tied together.
S4 (08:49):
Yeah.
S2 (08:50):
Yeah, it was devastating.
S4 (08:52):
Was the man prosecuted?
S2 (08:54):
He was not. It was a long, drawn out process
before we discovered that while there's no statute of limitations
in Michigan on a crime of that violent nature, now,
there was when when it occurred. And we can't retroactively
remove statutes of limitations. So basically, he hid his identity
(09:15):
long enough that he beat the system.
S4 (09:19):
There had to be feelings in your heart and mind
at that time about that man. Can you share what
you were feeling and thinking at that juncture?
S2 (09:30):
I think in that moment, all the fear came back.
I realized this man is still out there. He's still alive.
Who knows how many people he's harmed. And I was
pretty scared. And then I was notified by the attorney
General's office that there were some safety issues, because this
man is very violent, and they thought he was looking
(09:52):
for me. So fear was probably the the dominating emotion
at that time.
S4 (09:59):
Yeah. Well, in your book you talk about different types
of trauma that people face. You you talk about some
big T traumas and some little T traumas. Mhm. Tell
us what you mean or explain some of those.
S2 (10:15):
Yeah. Big T trauma are the, the catastrophic events that
we think of in life. And big T trauma is
life threatening or life altering. It's usually a one time occurrence. Um,
and it can include things like violent crime, severe accidents,
natural disasters, loss of a child. The big catastrophic events
(10:35):
that we think of would be big t trauma, little
t trauma. Um, sometimes we don't take as seriously, and
it can be chronic. So I'm talking about non life
threatening events such as perhaps child abuse or neglect. That's
not life threatening. Um, bullying, divorce, financial difficulty. Those are
(10:58):
traumatic events that are not life threatening. Unfortunately, right now,
the DSM five, when we diagnose post-traumatic stress disorder or PTSD,
the guidelines say you have to have experienced a big
T trauma. And I think that's unfortunate because chronic little
T trauma impacts the brain the exact same way a
big T trauma does. Um, so both are significant. And
(11:22):
I think it's important to point out what what trauma
is not. Uh, we overuse that word. You know, I
think of my teenage kids years ago coming home and
saying lunch was horrible, I was traumatized. That's not trauma.
That's that's drama.
S4 (11:37):
Yeah. Drama is much different from trauma.
S2 (11:41):
Yes it.
S4 (11:42):
Is. Yeah. So do you think that you moved toward
becoming a therapist because of this traumatic experience?
S2 (11:51):
Absolutely. Yeah. I never intended to study anything but music. Um,
and about a year after the event, I changed my
major to political science and decided I was going to
go into law. I wanted to be a prosecuting attorney
and put men in masks behind bars.
S4 (12:08):
Um.
S2 (12:08):
And I finished that out, and I applied to law
school and got in and started working, uh, in a
clerkship and discovered that rapists were not going to jail. Today,
only about 2.5% of rapists go to jail.
S4 (12:22):
Wow.
S2 (12:23):
And it's very quickly dawned on me that as long
as there's going to be rapists out there, there's going
to be a need for counselors. And so I immediately
dropped out of law school and started graduate school and became, um,
a therapist.
S4 (12:39):
You continued in the same college or university where you
were when this happened?
S2 (12:45):
I did. You know, a lot of people were saying,
you need to go home, you need to take some
time off. And I knew if I did that, it
was not going to be good. I needed to keep moving.
So I was right back to class the next Monday
and right back into all of my activities. Yeah, I
never did leave that school and I loved my college.
S4 (13:03):
Yeah. Yeah. Was it difficult to go through the training
to become a counselor like you are now because of
what you had gone through and you're studying all that now?
Was that was that hard for you?
S2 (13:17):
You know, I think in some ways it made me
more passionate to learn to be a counselor. Mhm. Um,
I don't remember being retraumatized or, or struggling at that time.
And part of that I think, is I still had
that filed away in the back of my mind. I
wasn't going to think about it.
S4 (13:35):
Yeah.
S2 (13:35):
And so I was I was dissociated, you know, emotionally
from what had happened to me. So at the time, no,
I don't remember that being difficult.
S4 (13:44):
Well, most listeners will have heard You know, PTSD, post-traumatic
stress disorder. But you prefer PTSD. What is that?
S2 (13:58):
So the DSM still calls our the response to big
T trauma, post-traumatic stress disorder. And there are many of
us in the field who are questioning that terminology, because
to me, a disorder is something that you're born with
that may or may not be curable, might be treatable.
(14:19):
We're not born with PTSD. This is an injury that
happens to us later. And so I call it post-traumatic
stress injury. I think that there's a lot of research
to show that our brain is injured when we suffer
big T trauma and chronic little T trauma. You know,
we can see that the amygdala grows and the hippocampus shrinks.
(14:39):
I won't go into all the science weeds of that,
but our brain does change when we experience trauma. And, um,
and I think it's important to acknowledge this as an injury,
injuries can be healed, which is what a blessing that is. Yeah.
But also, you know, when I think about our military,
(15:00):
we have a lot of people who leave the military
with post-traumatic stress injuries.
S4 (15:05):
Yeah.
S2 (15:06):
I think it's really unfortunate that, you know, if somebody
is injured, maybe, maybe their eardrum ruptures because they've been
exposed to a loud noise in the military. They get
a Purple Heart for that injury. But we don't do
the same thing for people with post-traumatic stress injuries. They
don't get a Purple Heart. It's not acknowledged as an injury.
And I think it's important that we start acknowledging that.
S4 (15:27):
Mhm. Mhm.
S5 (15:29):
How would you suggest.
S3 (15:30):
We do that.
S2 (15:31):
I would love to see the DSM change the terminology used. Um,
and I know there are many in the field who
are kind of fighting to have that done. Yeah. And
I think shows like yours where we can talk about
this as an injury. It's important to just get the
word out that this is not something you're born with.
It's not something that is wrong with you. It's a
(15:53):
natural response to unnatural circumstances.
S4 (15:58):
Yeah, well, I think our listeners who are hearing this
are in their minds saying, yes, yes, you're right. It's
not a disorder. Something I was born with. It is
an injury and there's healing for injuries. Yeah. Mhm. Now
you use the analogy of a pear tree to explain
trauma recovery. Tell us more about that.
S2 (16:21):
When I wrote this book I wanted it to be
something palatable to somebody who is experiencing trauma or in crisis.
So I didn't want to get too academic and I
didn't want to go too deep. I do use examples
of traumas that people have experienced, but for the most part,
we follow the story of this tree. And it's a
(16:41):
true story about my little pear tree that was injured
and suffered a trauma. And I think there was just
so much that we could learn from that tree. And
the fact that it was designed by God with everything
it needed to heal and to flourish. And we are too.
And so I used that analogy or that metaphor, um,
to bring in different concepts of healing in such a
(17:03):
way that it wouldn't be retraumatizing for someone to read.
S4 (17:07):
So what trauma did your pear tree have?
S2 (17:11):
My pear tree. We received this little. It was called
a new Bradford pear, not a Bradford pear. It was
a new and improved Bradford pear tree we received for
as a wedding gift. And, uh, really nurtured that tree
for about a year before we planted it. And when
we planted it, it was in the shadow of a big,
ugly pine tree. And my husband cut the pine tree
(17:33):
down and it landed on the pear tree. Oh, no.
And we were left with two. A stick with two
branches sticking out. It just destroyed the tree. Yeah. So
that was that was the damage. And that tree. Um,
because it was a wedding gift, was representative of a
lot of things in life. And so, um, the little
(17:55):
tree's trauma was our trauma, too.
S4 (17:58):
Yeah. Wow. Well, did the tree survive?
S2 (18:02):
The tree flourished. And you have to. You have to
read the book to see the whole story on that.
But the tree absolutely flourished. Yeah.
S5 (18:12):
Was that mirroring.
S3 (18:13):
Then, of your own experience? That a lot of times
when I think about tree or plants, you don't see
because if you're really close to it, you can't see
the growth, you can't see the life that is there.
You know, from day to day. It's over time that
you see that. Did that mirror what happened in your
own heart?
S2 (18:33):
Oh, I think yeah, I think you're right on track
with that. Um, we don't often notice our own growth
because we're staring it in the face. Right? We see
the trauma. We don't always notice the growth. Um, this
particular tree grew so fast and healed so fast that, um,
it was really remarkable to see. And, you know, if
(18:55):
we use the right techniques and we allow God into
the process, we can do the same thing. We can
grow and flourish, too. It's not a given that we
grow after trauma, but it is possible.
S3 (19:08):
So you had to make a choice. See, that's really
interesting because I wonder if you saw evidence of growth
or did it take somebody else speaking into your own
life to say, hey, look at this, Lisa. Look at
how far you've come. Um, did you feel like you
you moved past, let's say, you know, the nightmares that
(19:29):
you might have had or the feelings that came up
if you saw of some person in a ski mask
on TV, you know, was that part of the growth
that you felt?
S2 (19:40):
Oh, yeah. Yeah. It's interesting that you said that about
seeing ski masks on TV, because there was a a
series of commercials that came out that featured a guy
in a ski mask, and they were supposed to be funny,
and I never found them funny. I was very triggered
by ski masks. Yeah. And and that's funny that you
said that, because that was one of the first things
(20:00):
I noticed was I could watch that commercial and not
be triggered.
S3 (20:04):
Hmm.
S2 (20:05):
Healing takes time and effort. And it wasn't until after
the cold case that was reopened that I finally sought
godly counsel, and I finally started talking about the trauma.
Even with my loved ones, I didn't talk to my family.
My adult children had no idea what I had experienced,
and just allowing people into our trauma and our pain
(20:27):
is so healing in and of itself. Yeah. To to
build those support networks that we need and to, to really,
you know, face the trauma really in through therapy. Really
good therapy. It made a huge difference in my life.
And yeah, I think, I think it's you don't always
notice your progress before others do. So definitely other people
(20:51):
were pointing that out.
S4 (20:53):
Yeah, I'm sure there are listeners who have been through
trauma and like you for a long time, they have
just tried to forget it, you know, take it out
of their mind and ignore it. But and maybe, maybe
a case resurfacing doesn't happen in their life. They're still
(21:15):
in that stage and they're hearing this and it's stirring
up things inside of them right now. Would you encourage
that person to reach out for counseling at this juncture,
even though it may have been a number of years
earlier when the trauma took place?
S2 (21:32):
Absolutely. I think it's important to remember that trauma lives
in the subconscious part of our brain, and it lives
there forever. It is unchanged until we do something to
address it. I was speaking to a women's group not
long ago, and when I was done speaking, a 90
year old woman came up to me. She was blind
and she said, I've never told anybody, but I experienced
(21:55):
something similar. And she said, is it too late to
get counseling?
S4 (22:00):
Mhm.
S2 (22:00):
And I said, absolutely not. Right. I mean yes she's
90 years old, but if it's going to help her
heal and I believe that certain therapies are very healing. Yeah.
It was not too late and we were able to
connect her to a therapist.
S3 (22:15):
Yeah. I'm wondering what happened when you shared with your family,
your kids, especially what your expectation was of what their
response might have been and what their response actually was?
S2 (22:27):
I think telling people about your trauma is, is one
of the hardest parts of experiencing trauma, because back when
it happened and I had to tell my parents it's
retraumatising to experience their trauma because they're going to have
some secondary trauma there. Yeah. So it was it was
scary to tell my adult kids, I have, uh, I
(22:49):
had two adult sons at the time. My one adult
son just happened to be at the house when I
got the phone call. And, I mean, I fell apart.
I fell to the floor. I was crying. I didn't
know I couldn't make sense of my emotions at all.
And my husband's instinct was to go out and get
my son and bring him in. And it was it
(23:09):
was beautiful that he did that, because this was tangible
evidence that I had survived and life had gone on
and life was good. And so that was very, very
helpful and comforting to me. Both of my boys are
I'm just so blessed because they were so caring and
loving and understanding. They didn't act shocked. They just comforted. And,
(23:34):
you know, that's exactly what I needed from them. So
we don't always get that when we tell people. But
I was very blessed.
S3 (23:43):
So why do people keep that silent if there is,
if there's real healing, you know, why do people hang
on to this themselves and not share it with others?
S2 (23:55):
There are so many reasons that people do that, and
part of it is to avoid the retraumatisation. Um, part
of it is fear. Part of is embarrassment. We don't
want retaliation. There's, you know, there's just so many reasons
that people choose not to talk about their trauma.
S1 (24:17):
This is the building Relationships with Doctor Gary Chapman podcast.
He's the author of the New York Times bestseller The
Five Love Languages. We're talking with author and counselor Lisa Suruga. Today.
She's written our featured resource at Five Love Languages. It's
titled The Trauma Tree going beyond survival, growing toward wholeness.
(24:38):
Just go to five love languages.
S4 (24:44):
Lisa, what about the role of forgiveness in this whole
thing of processing trauma? What role does forgiveness play?
S2 (24:53):
I think that first we need to define forgiveness, because forgiveness,
I think, is very important in our healing process. But
forgiveness is not the idea of saying what you did
was okay. What happened to me was okay. That's that's
not what forgiveness is. Forgiveness, I think, is more for
us personally. When I forgive somebody for doing something, that
(25:15):
means I'm not going to hold on to that pain.
I'm not going to be held captive by that memory anymore.
I'm letting go of that. And the reason I say
that is because sometimes we've been our trauma could be
at the hands of somebody that we loved, and maybe
we're going to forgive them in that way and say,
you know, I want to reconcile, but reconciliation is not
(25:39):
it's not mandated. When we forgive. I was never I
never had a relationship with this man in the ski mask.
I don't want to reconcile with him. It wouldn't be
safe to write. And there are some people who experience
trauma at the hands of, um, maybe a relative or
a friend that they have to see again, but it's
not safe to have a relationship. So. So I guess
(26:00):
looking at what forgiveness is and is not is really important. Yeah.
And the other thing is, when I work with clients,
I don't talk about forgiveness right out of the gate.
I don't think it needs to be the first thing
that happens. I think there's a lot of healing that
needs to happen, and then we can lay that down
and say, okay, I'm leaving this at the foot of
the cross. I'm not going to carry this with me anymore.
(26:22):
I'm forgiving and letting go.
S4 (26:25):
You know, Lisa, I often use the word release rather
than forgiveness. And I'll tell you why. Releasing it to God.
You know, the scriptures say we're to forgive others in
the same way God forgives us. Well, when does God
forgive us? When we confess our sins? God does not
(26:46):
forgive everybody. God forgives people who confess their sins. So
I just that's why I prefer to use that word release,
which is exactly what you're describing, is that we come
to the place where they have not apologized, they've not repented.
You know, and in your case, we have no relationship
with them. So what we're doing is saying, God, you know,
(27:09):
the trauma of all of this. You know, the person,
you know where they are now and their journey. But
I just want to release them to you. I want
to turn them over to you and turn all my
hurt over to you and just and just release them.
It's sometimes called by other people one sided forgiveness, which, again,
is what you're describing. You know, uh, I guess I've
(27:29):
just found the word release better. Yeah. Better than forgive.
You understand what I'm saying?
S2 (27:35):
I do. And I completely agree with you, I have to.
I hope it's okay to share here. God provided me
an opportunity that I will just forever be grateful for.
And that is, I was able to meet the perpetrator.
S6 (27:49):
Hmm hmm.
S2 (27:51):
There's a documentary being filmed on my story, and as
part of that, he was under surveillance for a while,
and I was able to confront him. And for me,
that that moment of release was when I saw him.
He didn't speak to me, but I was able to
speak to him. I gave him a Bible, and I
gave him a letter, and I talked to him about
(28:14):
release that I'm releasing this. This is no longer going
to rule my life. Yeah. And to hand him that
Bible and to feel so calm as I handed him
the Bible and to see fear in his face.
S6 (28:27):
Mhm.
S2 (28:28):
Was very healing. Not that I wanted to see fear
in his face, But you know what? If he has fear,
maybe he'll read that Bible. Maybe he'll find Christ and
he'll find forgiveness there. But it was a release for me.
S6 (28:43):
Well.
S4 (28:44):
Absolutely. You know, you're doing another biblical thing, and that
is return good for evil. You know, you were you
were violated in a violent way. But here you are
all these years later when you had that chance to
see him, you were doing something good. You know, you're
giving him a Bible and you're giving him a letter,
(29:04):
you know, describing that you're releasing this, you know, and
you're expressing concern about his destiny because we know God
can forgive people like that who have done horrible things.
You know, if they repent.
S2 (29:18):
God revealed to me in an incredibly powerful way that,
you know, he wants that none should perish.
S6 (29:25):
Yeah.
S2 (29:26):
And and that no one is too far. No one
is too far for God to reach.
S6 (29:31):
Yeah.
S3 (29:32):
But that was a progressive thing, it sounds like to me.
And most people who have the kind of trauma that
you went through are not going to have that face
to face moment. Where did you release and forgive? Uh,
several times over the years, or did you have to
go through a process of that, choosing that each day?
S2 (29:54):
I think I will choose that each day for the
rest of my life. I just don't think forgiveness is
a one and done thing. There's always going to be
something that reminds us and then we need to let
go again.
S4 (30:05):
Well, I'm sure that many of our listeners are feeling
exactly what I'm feeling through all this. I mean, it's
your story, and what you just shared with us is
very moving, and it's demonstrating the response God wants us
to have to those who treat us terribly. Well, describe
the concept that you call post-traumatic growth.
S2 (30:29):
Yeah, there's actually been research done on post-traumatic growth. And
Tedeschi and Calhoun are the the researchers. And what they
found was, you know, we often hear whatever doesn't kill
you makes you stronger. And unfortunately, that's not true for everybody. Um,
the study showed that about 60% of people actually grow
(30:51):
after experienced trauma. That means 40% struggle, right? And they
found that there are five measurable components to growing after
after trauma. The first one is that we end up
with a greater appreciation of life, and we start to
prioritize gratitude in life. That would be one sign of growth.
(31:12):
The next is that relationships with others change. So some
of them grow stronger. And sometimes we need to prune
back some of our relationships that maybe are not healthy.
The third thing is new possibilities in life. We kind
of lose that fear to follow our of our dreams
if we've grown after trauma. You know, if we can
survive this, we can survive trying other things, too. The
(31:36):
fourth thing is personal strength. And I say the sweetest
byproduct of acknowledging personal strength is that we come out
with optimism. And then the fifth thing, and I think
this is so crucial, is that science points to God.
Because the fifth elements that they noticed in growth is
spiritual change, and that people who found that prayer and
(31:58):
reliance on God led, led to healing, were able to
grow more through their experiences. So I think that knowing
a little bit more about post-traumatic growth, you know, maybe,
maybe we'll find ways to really help that other 40%
to also grow.
S4 (32:15):
Well, I'm glad you included the research in the book
because I think, yeah, what you just shared. I can
see a person thinking through that, working through that, that's
that's going to be helpful to them. Yeah. Mhm.
S3 (32:27):
Well and in a lot of ways we get back
to the pear tree there too don't we.
S2 (32:32):
It all goes back to the pear tree. Yeah. And
the partridge that's in the pear tree at the end
of the book too. I don't know.
S6 (32:41):
Okay. Yeah. Okay. Okay.
S4 (32:43):
Oh I can't imagine somebody listening to us today and
not wanting to go out and buy this book.
S6 (32:48):
Yeah. Even if they've never experienced trauma. Oh.
S4 (32:54):
Well, throughout the book, you highlight Psalm 27, chapter 27,
verse 13. I'm going to read it. It says, I
remain confident of this. I will see the goodness of
the Lord in the land of the living. End of quote.
Why is that verse significant to you?
S2 (33:15):
So shortly after my cold case was reopened, um, my
husband recognized that I was struggling and he said, you
know what? We can do whatever you want today, Wherever
you want to go. We're gonna do whatever you want
to do. And I burst into tears and said, I
just want to run away. And he said, where do
we want to go? And I said, I just want
(33:37):
to be alone. I don't know where I want to go.
I just, I need to get out. So my husband
packed my bags into the car and said, you don't
have to tell me where you're going. Just let me
know you're safe when you get there. And he helped
me run away. And, um, on that day, I stopped
and bought some journaling materials, and I returned to the
scene of the crime, and I sat under the window
(33:59):
of the room where it happened. And the very first
scripture verse that I wrote into my journal was Psalm 2713.
And at the time I thought, I don't want to
wait till the next lifetime for justice, right? Why would
God let this be reopened now? And in my mind,
I saw this as a promise that I was going
to get justice in this lifetime, in the land of
(34:21):
the living, that I was going to get justice, and
I was going to get closure. I was not correct.
The justice doesn't always look like what we think it
will look like, but we do have a just God
and justice will happen. We're not promised closure in this lifetime.
This is not our home. Closure comes in the next lifetime.
So I kept revisiting this this Psalm and wondering why
(34:44):
did God reopen this if I'm not going to get
justice and closure? After about a year of journaling, I
read it again and I thought, I'm going to see
the goodness of the Lord in the land of the living.
Not the justice, not the closure, but the goodness of
the Lord. And I think sometimes we get so focused
on our trauma and our pain and the horrific wasteland
(35:05):
of life that we forget to look up and notice
that there's life all around us, and the goodness of
the Lord is in the land of the living. Regardless
of what trauma you've gone through, regardless of the pain
you've experienced, God's goodness is still here, and we can
still experience his goodness and even joy, even joy in
life after trauma.
S4 (35:26):
And that's good news.
S6 (35:27):
Mhm.
S4 (35:29):
Lisa, you emphasize the importance of looking beyond ourselves as
a step toward healing. Why is it that outward focus
so crucial to the recovery process?
S2 (35:42):
I think when we experience not just trauma but depression, anxiety,
any of those darker times in life, it's kind of
a natural that we focus inward. We're not feeling well.
And so we're focused on how we're feeling and what's
going on in our life. And in a way that's unavoidable.
At first, I think that's what we need to do,
but eventually we need to look outside of ourselves. We
(36:05):
need to again look up from the chaos and see
God's goodness in life. It's very healing when we start
to focus on others. And, you know, I'm reminded of
Second Corinthians one, the father of compassion and the God
of all comfort, who comforts us in our times of
trouble so that we can comfort those in any trouble
(36:25):
with the same comfort that we've received, right? Yeah. The
words so that in that scripture stand out to me.
God comforts us so that we know how to comfort others.
There's a purpose in that. And so I think part
of that healing process is to accept that comfort from God,
to do some healing. Enough healing that we now can
(36:46):
look at others and go, you know what? There's hope
for you too. And let me tell you how you
can be comforted. I think that's a part of the
healing process.
S4 (36:55):
So in your connection with people over the years, which
you have done in the counseling framework, I'm sure you've
seen these principles that you have in the book here being,
you know, fleshed out in real life with people. What
does that look like for you to be able to
help others? Like in that context.
S2 (37:14):
I can say that that's been a huge part of
my own healing process. It is such a blessing to
be able to reach out to others who have experienced
trauma and to say there's hope, there's a future, there's
still goodness in life. You know, I do eMDR therapy
and to see a client just transformed from that dead inside, sad,
(37:40):
you know, person in pain to somebody who really, truly
sees hope and who is able to experience joy again,
there is something healing and transformative about that.
S4 (37:52):
Yeah.
S2 (37:52):
Yeah. It's a blessing to see others heal.
S4 (37:55):
Yeah, absolutely. Do you support legislative changes concerning justice for survivors? Uh,
what have been the areas of greatest concern to you
in those efforts?
S2 (38:09):
So I've mentioned that only 2.5% of rapists go to jail. And, um,
my own case, actually, it's kind of the perfect case
to outline where the loops and the gaps, the. The
loopholes and gaps in our laws are. So I took
my story to Lansing, Michigan, to the state legislators and
told the story and then said, and here's why he
(38:31):
didn't go to jail. And here's what you can do
to fix these laws that led to opportunities to go
to Washington, D.C.. I have met with members of Congress
in D.C., and there are many little nuances in our
laws that prevent us from sending rapists to jail, and
some of them are at the federal level, some are
(38:51):
at the state level, and the two kind of fight
each other because of laws that kind of prohibit each
other from prosecuting. Um, so I'm just kind of using
my story to outline where those difficulties are and how
we can fix them. Yeah, a lot of them tie
back to statutes of limitations.
S4 (39:12):
So what victories have you seen and what do you
hope happens in the future legislatively?
S2 (39:18):
I think the victories so far are just that I
have the ear of Congress and I'm able to to
talk with them. Um, legislation and change is very slow
and very difficult. I can remember being in Washington, D.C.,
at one point talking to a senator who was expressing
that she just didn't see any hope that this would
(39:40):
ever change and that, you know, part of what we
need to do is to overturn a Supreme Court decision.
And she said the Supreme Court never overturns decisions. And
I was discouraged. Um, but the next morning, I woke
up in Roe versus Wade had just been overturned. And
I heard back from that senator who said, okay, well,
I was wrong. They did overturn a decision. And, um,
(40:03):
and in a way that was helpful because for the
Supreme Court to overturn Roe versus Wade, it would behoove
them to show that we're also going to, um, stand
up for victims of sexual assault, who, you know, this
could end up in an unwanted pregnancy. So we've used
that as leverage to say, okay, now show that you're
(40:24):
going to protect people too, because a lot of these
people who are going for abortions are going because they've
been assaulted. Right. So so let's do something to stop
that too. So, you know, we just go one step
at a time and God keeps opening doors and we'll
see where he takes it.
S4 (40:40):
Well, let me come in to you for what you're
doing in that area because this issue certainly needs to
be addressed. So thank you for doing that.
S2 (40:50):
Thank you.
S4 (40:51):
Well, Lisa, as we come to the end of our
time together today, how can family, friends or faith community?
You know, the church rally around both the traumatized and
the and those who love them?
S2 (41:07):
That is such a good question. Thank you for asking that.
You know, I look at the book of job and
job experienced trauma like no other, right? Big T trauma
on top of big T trauma and his friends came
to support him, and at first they did exactly the
right thing. They just sat with him and comforted. They
(41:27):
didn't ask questions. They didn't. They didn't say much of anything.
They were just with him. And then they kind of
blew it. After a few days, they started thinking, okay,
why did this happen to job? And how do I
make sure it doesn't happen to me? And then they
start saying, okay, job, you know, what sin did you commit?
We need to avoid that kind of blaming and shaming.
And it happens so naturally because we don't want the
(41:52):
same trauma to happen to us. I think it's important
that we stay focused on the person who's experienced the trauma. Really,
it's it's about just physically being there with them at
first and talking about it. So many times people don't
talk about trauma because they don't want to hurt the
person that's experienced trauma, but then that person starts to
feel like their trauma didn't matter. And so I think
(42:14):
it's important to to acknowledge the trauma. Check in with
that person from time to time. You know, we talk
about churches bringing meals to people, and that sounds like
just such a cliche, simple thing to do. But it's
it's actually perfect. We want to meet those first basic
biological needs of that person first. Right. And so if
(42:34):
a healthy meal is something that's going to meet those needs,
bring them a healthy meal. And the great advantage to
that is now you're there in person and you can
check in on them and you can express your love
and your your support for them. So I think it's
just a matter of looking for ways to touch base
and acknowledge the pain. Don't ignore it. They need to
(42:54):
hear that, you know.
S4 (42:56):
Well, Lisa, I want to thank you for being with
us today. Uh, this has been an amazing interview and
a very emotional interview. And this book offers a real
hope for people in trauma. So I just thanks for
for the way you've handled your journey and for the
fact that you have written this book to help others
and doing other things that you're doing in your sphere
(43:20):
of influence to help others. So thank you again for
being with us today.
S2 (43:24):
Thank you so much.
S3 (43:26):
We've heard a path toward real hope today from Lisa Suruga.
And if you want to read more about her story,
go to Building Relationships. Her book is linked right there.
The trauma tree going beyond survival, growing toward wholeness. Again,
just go to building relationships.
S4 (43:45):
And coming up next week, if you feel like all
you want to do is yell at your husband, don't
miss an encouraging conversation in one week.
S1 (43:55):
Before we go, let me thank our production team, Steve
Wick and Janice. Backing. Building relationships with Doctor Gary Chapman
is a production of Moody Radio in Chicago, in association
with Moody Publishers, a ministry of Moody Bible Institute. Thanks
for listening.
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