August 16, 2025 • 47 mins
If you love your spouse but don’t particularly like him or her, don’t miss this summer best-of Building Relationships with Dr. Gary Chapman. Author and speaker, Arlene Pellicane believes there are common threats to a good marriage. If you make four key decisions, your marriage can go from a life sentence to a celebration. Making Marriage Easier—that’s the topic on Building Relationships with Dr. Gary Chapman.
Featured resource: MAKING MARRIAGE EASIER: HOW TO LOVE (AND LIKE) YOUR SPOUSE FOR LIFE
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Episode Transcript
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S1 (00:00):
That's what I mean by easier. How can we take
this thing called marriage and take kind of the sting
out of it? How can we make things not so
difficult to have a conversation, maybe, or to have date night?
You know, what are things we can do that are
rhythms that we just start doing, and it's not so
hard anymore.
S2 (00:25):
Welcome to building relationships with Doctor Gary Chapman, author of
the New York Times best seller The Five Love Languages.
Is it possible to love your spouse for a lifetime?
Is it possible to just like your spouse for a lifetime?
If that feels like an unattainable goal, we have some
help and hope for you today.
S3 (00:43):
Author and speaker Arlene Pelikan will join us for another
Summer Best of broadcast that aired just before Valentine's Day
this year, so you may hear some dated references. Arlene
has been working on her latest book more than 25 years.
That's how long she and her husband have been married.
Her goal is to make marriage easier. And that's the
title of the book you'll find at Building Relationships, Making
(01:07):
Marriage Easier. And Gary, that seems to go right along
with your ministry through the years.
S4 (01:13):
Yeah, that's what I've tried to do through the years,
but I'm really glad that Arlene is joining in the
marriage event here. You know, she's written a lot about
children and relationships with children. She and I have written
some books together, but I am really glad to have
her on the program today. I think our audience is
going to really enjoy this and find it very helpful.
S3 (01:33):
Well, Arlene is a speaker, the author of a number
of books, as Gary just mentioned, host of the Happy
Home Podcast. She's a spokesperson for National Marriage Week as well.
We've talked about 31 days to a happy husband growing up,
social screen kids and parents rising. If you go to
building relationships, her latest is right there Making Marriage Easier
(01:55):
How to Love and Like your Spouse for life. Just
go to building relationships.
S4 (02:01):
Well, Arlene, welcome back to Building Relationships.
S1 (02:04):
It's so wonderful to be back. Thank you so much
for having me.
S4 (02:07):
Well, let's talk about the why of this book. It
seems to me you want to share some hope for
those who are thinking about marriage, and also those that
are already married and maybe struggling. Is that true?
S1 (02:21):
Yeah. I have two college aged students and students, children
and and a high schooler. And I see that many
of these like 20 somethings, 30 somethings that I'm meeting,
they're like, ah, I don't I don't know if I'm
going to get married. Like, I don't really want to
get married. That looks really hard. And and so I'm
kind of a little bit alarmed because I'll see this
from good, solid Christian homes, right. Who had a very
(02:43):
positive view of marriage. And then I'm thinking like, why
don't you want to get married? So the book partially
is for younger people to say, wait a minute, this
marriage thing sounds awesome. I want to do this. So
how can we make that easier for them? More attainable,
something that they want. And then for those of us
who are already married, you know that we hear things like, oh,
it's so hard. It's so difficult. He's so ornery, she's
(03:07):
so insensitive and unresponsive. You know, you hear all these things.
So just in the same way, when we know we
have to do something, we think to ourselves, well, how
do I make this easier? You know, that's just how
we are. How can we make cooking easier? It's like, oh,
we have all these things. We get the all the
food in the box, and then we prepared ourselves. So
for me, what I want to do for this book
is like, you know, here's your marriage in a box,
(03:28):
so to speak. Let's make it easier for you. Not easy,
because it's going to require effort, but easier.
S4 (03:35):
Yeah. Well, you describe in the book early on a
backpacking trip that you made with your family. Uh, what
lessons did you learn from that experience?
S1 (03:44):
Yeah. So. So right off the gate, right out of
the gate, it's like, okay, you're a hiker and a
camper kind of person, and I'm like a lodge and
a sit by the fire kind of person. And I
think most couples are kind of like that. So this
was a little bit a lot of bit of of
give for me to say, okay, I will go in
the wilderness with a £25 backpack with everything I need
(04:07):
just on my back for three days. I will go
to the bathroom in the wild, like I will do
this to show my love, right? So when and this was,
you know, near Mammoth Lakes in California, it was spectacularly beautiful. Uh,
you know, so I get that. And we're making these
beautiful memories with our three children. Everyone is ecstatic, pretty much,
except me. So. So we're walking, and when it's beautiful
(04:30):
and doable, I was like, this is fantastic. I am
going to do this again. You can sign me up
next year. I will join you. But when it was
uphill for like two hours and I'm just struggling with
that pack on my back, or when we got to
a patch of snow and it's like, wait a minute,
I don't think we can pass this. We need to
find a different way. You know, when we were in
(04:52):
those kinds of moments, I'm like, oh no, I've done
my due diligence. I came the one time. I am
not doing this again. And it reminded me as I'm walking,
you know, I was I was working on this book
Making Marriage easier as I'm on this hike and I
it reminded me so much like, wow, this is like marriage.
Like when it's beautiful vistas and not that much effort.
(05:13):
It's like, yeah, I love marriage. Marriage is great. But
when it's, wow, we've got financial difficulties, we're having trouble
in the bedroom. We hardly talk anymore. Like, why are
you on my case all the time? Then you're like,
maybe this was the wrong journey. Maybe. Maybe we should
call it quits, you know? So it is this idea
of you can look just like I saw the trail
map and I could see, like, oh, yeah, this is
going to be difficult. I could see the little dotted
(05:34):
lines going up and down, right. The elevation. But until
you're actually there, you don't really know what how difficult
it's going to be. But in that moment you have
to decide, I am going to finish this loop like
I am going to get to the end, I will,
I will see this through. I remember on the trip
I said to James, if I could pay someone $5,000
(05:56):
to airlift me out of this spot. I actually.
S4 (05:59):
I.
S1 (05:59):
Actually think I would. But, you know, marriage is not
like that. You cannot pay to get out. You know,
you have to say like, hey, I started this, I
made this vow, I'm going to finish it. And just
having that mindset of, hey, this is what I chose.
It's going to have highs, it's going to have lows,
and I'm going to go through it all. That makes
marriage easier because then you're not always thinking, how do
(06:20):
I get out? You know, what can I do?
S4 (06:21):
Yeah. Yeah. Well, talk about that word easier. That's that's
part of the title. Yeah. So what do you mean
by easier?
S1 (06:29):
You know, when you make that decision, like I'm going
to get healthier. So I'm going to go to the
gym and I'm going to. So I get by my
gym membership. But then you never go right. It's like, oh,
that was fun. I went for two weeks and then
I never go. So I might make that easier by saying,
I will go to a specific class once a week,
and then I might have a friend meet me at
(06:49):
that specific class, and we might make a bet that
if you don't show up to the class, you owe
me the next lunch and then I'll put my shoes.
If I'm a woman, I'll put my shoes and my
little outfit, you know, out right next to my bed
so that I know what to do. And what have
I done? I've made it easier. I've made it like, okay,
now I'm actually going to go because my clothes are set.
The decisions have been made. There's something that will happen
(07:11):
to me if I don't do it, and I can't
let this person down that I'm meeting. And so that's
what I mean by easier how can we take this
thing called marriage and take kind of the sting out
of it? How can we make things not so difficult
to have a conversation, maybe, or to have date night?
You know, what are things we can do that are
(07:31):
rhythms that we just start doing and it's not so
hard anymore?
S4 (07:36):
Yeah, well, I think those who will read the book
are going to find that it's true. It can be easier.
S1 (07:43):
Yes.
S4 (07:44):
Now, for those listening who are struggling in their marriage,
Valentine's day is coming up and they don't really feel
love for their spouse. I remember when I was there,
way back in my marriage. What do you say to them?
S1 (07:59):
First, I'm sorry that you're in that spot. It's a
hard spot. I think it starts with that prayer. Lord,
I've made this commitment to my spouse. Help me to
see my spouse like you see them. Help me to
want to serve my spouse. Help me to want to
reach out to them and not give up, you know.
So start there and then just think about, you know,
there are many times we don't want to go to work.
(08:20):
We don't feel like going to work, but we go.
There are times where I don't feel like doing laundry,
but I do it. You know, there are a lot
of things in life that we do, even if we
don't feel it. I think of even at worship, at church,
if you're to sing but you don't feel like singing
that particular morning. But guess what? When you decide I
will sing, I will praise like I'm going to do that.
(08:42):
Those feelings follow. Like you start singing praise to God.
You start thanking him for he is good and his
love endures forever. Those feelings then will follow. And it
is the same in your marriage that when you think, okay,
I don't feel like loving you, but I will act
in a loving way, right? I will act kindly. I
will act with service. Then not long thereafter, I think
(09:06):
those feelings will follow. So don't pursue the feeling or
use the feeling as a barometer because they are. Feelings
will lie to us. Our feelings, you know, the they
can say, you know, oh, he's so difficult. He never,
you know, he never notices you. And you start listening
to those feelings and you get kind of in a huff.
But if you say to yourself, no, no, no, no, wait,
(09:26):
what is the truth of this matter? Hey, I made
a commitment. I'm going to look for what's good. And
those feelings will follow.
S4 (09:34):
Early in the book, you made four decisions with your husband, James,
that have made marriage easier for you. Can you tell
us what those four decisions were?
S1 (09:44):
Yeah. And these work, whether you're newlyweds or you've been
married for 50 years. Uh, the decision, number one, play
by the rules pre-decide what your will do and what
you won't do. So this is again like we were
talking about earlier. Don't follow feelings, follow the commands of God.
So you know, in the Bible, the Psalm one tells
(10:05):
us that blessed is the one who delights in the
law of the Lord. So it's like, I love these
rules because these rules bring me life. So that's the
idea here. Like there are rules to marriage and they're
found in God's word. And if you love to follow them,
you're going to do really well. So what decision one
play by the rules. Decision two give thanks every day.
(10:26):
So every day you're finding something in your marriage to
be thankful for. You're saying thank you God for my spouse.
Thank you that you're with us. So it is just
this attitude in your home that is rooted in gratefulness,
in gratitude, and not in complaining and wishing you had
someone else's life decision. Number three serve your spouse and
(10:47):
I use you and Carolyn in the book. Gary here
that how can you serve your spouse? And how can
you say, what can I do for you? Instead of, well,
what have you done for me lately? Because those are
two very different people to live with. And then decision
number four is take fun seriously. You know, when you
were dating and falling in love, it was all about fun.
(11:09):
And then you get the mortgage. You get the kids,
you get work. You get you're on the internet all
the time. And all of a sudden everything's so serious
and nothing is fun. And you stop having fun together,
and you think that that's just an extra that you
can't afford. Well, I'm here to tell you, you can't
afford not to have fun, because it is the fun
that brought you together and helps you keep together.
S4 (11:29):
Yeah, yeah. Okay. I want to go back to that
first one. Play by the rules. In that section, you
describe what you call the Power hour. What is the
Power hour?
S1 (11:43):
This one. You guys are going to love this because
it involves eating. We love eating, right. So the power
hour is having meals together. And I'm sure, Doctor Chapman,
that this was something that people did without having need,
without even having to bring it up. Right? People used
to eat together. But now if you ask people you know,
think about it for your own home. Think of it
(12:03):
for your friends. How many meals a week do you
guys eat together? A lot of people will say like, oh,
you know, just a few, because usually we just grab
our food and then everybody goes into their own rooms
and does their homework or watches, sports or whatever it is. Right?
So this Power Hour is the rhythm of eating together
with your spouse every single day. Now, I know people
(12:27):
are going to say, wait a minute, that's legalistic. Or
you know what? If I'm hungry? You mean I have
to wait for my spouse to come home? So this isn't.
We never signed on the dotted line. Thou may not
eat until I get here, you know, but it's just
the rhythm of, hey, we normally eat dinner together, you know,
obviously if you're out of town, you can't do that
if you're separate. Obviously, I get that. But we will
(12:48):
eat together. We'll wait for each other if it's reasonable.
You know, in our home, it's kind of like if
it's after 7:00, it's like, okay, sorry, buddy, we got
to eat. But it's it's something, a rhythm that this
is normal. It would feel abnormal if we didn't sit
down and eat together. This could be dinner. This could be, um,
you know, maybe you're very busy in the, in the
(13:08):
on the evening, so you have to actually schedule a
lunch date with your, with your spouse. That's okay. That's
what you used to do when you're dating. Maybe it
just looks like drinking your coffee together in the morning,
but it is this idea that every single day we
will connect over some kind of food, right? Or coffee
because it gives you then, like friendship, you need friendship
(13:31):
and companionship. And if you don't have space for that,
then everyone gets busy. And then that's why you feel like, well,
we don't even hardly know each other anymore. So start
with that power hour. I thought about it. We've been
married over 25 years. We've pretty much eaten a meal
every day together since we said I do. So I thought,
that is like 10,000 meals together. So you think to yourself,
(13:52):
wait a minute, if I have 10,000 meals with someone,
I'm going to be pretty close to them. So eat together.
S4 (13:59):
And I know you would also say, don't answer your
cell phone. That's right. While you're eating.
S1 (14:04):
Even. Don't even have it on the table. Put it
away so you don't even see it. That's exactly right.
S4 (14:10):
You know, I could not agree more with this. It's
just powerful. And you know, when the kids come along,
then you're eating with the kids and your and your spouse. Yeah.
And we did that through all those years. Our kids
are grown now. Of course, they look back and say,
those are one of the fondest memories we have sitting
around the table talking about life together, you know, sharing
life together. So great for the marriage, great for the kids.
S1 (14:32):
Yes.
S4 (14:33):
Now you also deal with sexual intimacy in this section. Uh,
you know, I'm often asked the question how much sex
is normal or healthy for a couple? I don't know
how you answer that or if you answer that, but
give us some thoughts along those lines.
S1 (14:49):
Do you believe it or not? You will find this
in the book. But I've. I'm leaning on the research
of Doctor Michael. And Shante Felton on this one. But
the chapter is called. But we had sex last Tuesday,
you know, because for usually it's the woman doesn't always
have to be. But for the woman, it's kind of like, well, wait,
we did that like a long time ago. Isn't that enough?
And then for the husband, he's thinking like, well, no,
(15:12):
this is something that I want to do to connect with,
you know, it's not enough. So, you know, that has
definitely been something through the years. And I think a
lot of people can relate to that is okay. One
person wants a certain amount and the other person wants
a certain amount. How do you kind of meet in
the middle and how much is normal? So what they
found in terms of research of what was normal is
(15:34):
their researchers found that four times every three weeks was normal.
I know some of you are like, oh, phew, it's
not four times every week. Okay, great. Four times every
three weeks. So they said one and one third time,
basically per week. And they also were quick to say,
though that's what is normal. It's what people are doing.
It doesn't mean that that's the ideal. It's just kind
(15:57):
of what people are doing. But they did find that 94%
of those who said, hey, we are happy and satisfied
with our sexual relationship. 94% of those people have said
they were also happy in their marriages, which which follows,
like if you're having healthy physical intimacy, it lends to
that you have a healthy marriage. And they also said
(16:18):
that people who couples who had sex one time a
week or more were satisfied. So these are, you know,
these are things that you can look at like, okay,
my goodness, maybe it's been too long. And my husband
and I, we need to put, you know, I think
it was Doctor David Clark who said, if you're a
couple with children and you do not schedule your sex,
(16:38):
you do not have sex, right? So sometimes in some
parts of your time, of the season of life you're in,
you have to put it in the calendar and not
feel unromantic about that, but feel like, okay, our relationship
is important, so I'm going to make time for this.
S4 (16:54):
Yeah, no question about it. The sexual part of the
marriage is an important part of marriage. And you're right,
we do have different ideas. Most of the time in
terms of how often, etc., you know, but this is helpful.
S1 (17:06):
My other book, 31 days to a Happy Husband. I
remember when I was writing that one of James's friends
was like, why do you need 31 days? All you
have to do is like, say, make love to your
husband and he'll be very happy. So, so I thought,
you know, when you think of making marriage easier, I
think for, for many men, they would just think like, oh, well,
if we could be more intimate physically, that would make
(17:26):
marriage a lot easier for me.
S4 (17:28):
Yeah, yeah. One of the problems that many marriages face
is the change in the marriage relationship once the kids
come along. So how do you keep your marriage from
becoming all about the kids?
S1 (17:42):
I think this is really a modern problem. I think,
you know, in the days of, you know, like maybe
a generation or two, it's like you saw the kids
were part of the home, but they weren't the everything
of the home. Right? So when a baby comes into
your lives, of course, like when Ethan was born, it
was like Simba and The Lion King. It was like,
look who has come. And all of your life revolves
(18:03):
around keeping this baby alive. And that's okay, because you
really do have to revolve around that baby to keep
it alive. But once the baby turns two, five, ten, 15,
you've got to realize, wait a minute. Our whole universe
doesn't revolve around this child. But for a lot of us,
we might not see it, but we really are very
child centered. So things like this. You know me as
(18:25):
a mom, if I need to bring my, you know,
kids to school, and then I need to go get
them something for a sport, you know, they need something
and then I'm going to watch them play their sport,
and then I'm going to run home and have make dinner. Like,
I'm not going to think a thing of this. I'm
just going to do it because that's what I do.
I'm the mom. But if my husband, James, who is
a realtor, says, hey honey, could you look over this
(18:47):
letter for me and just see? Does this sound right
to you? I'm like, I have so much to do. Like,
you're a grown man. Look at it yourself. Use Grammarly,
you know. So I think sometimes if we can just
think to ourselves, do I treat my spouse with the
same type of service, willingness, time, speaking their love languages?
Do I do that as much for my spouse as
(19:10):
I do it for my kids? And I think for
many of us, we'd have to go, ouch. Like, I
don't really do that. So when the kids have an activity,
let's say, and you're trying to decide, okay, should we
do soccer again? Should we go on the volleyball team?
Should we play the clarinet? You know, and you're usually
we're asking all these questions because we are looking through
(19:32):
the lens of our child. But when we make those decisions,
let's also ask is, how is this going to impact
our marriage? Seriously? Like, how is this going to impact us?
Are we going to be not able to see each
other very much. Are we going to be so ragged
that we're kind of, you know, kind of mean to
each other? We don't have time to have date night.
We don't have time for, you know, all the things
(19:53):
that we just talked about, you know? So we have
to ask that, how is it for the marriage? How
is it for the rhythm of the family? So these
are the kinds of questions if you are not going
on a date, because even though you have a trusted babysitter,
you feel like, oh, the kids don't like it when
we go out. You know, that's that's a sign of
a child centered home that says, you know what, child
(20:14):
of mine? It's okay that you don't like it, that
Mommy and daddy are leaving for two hours, but we're
going to go ahead and do that anyway. So those
kinds of things kind of help us from becoming too
child centered.
S4 (20:26):
Yeah. You know, I've always felt that having an intimate, marriage, loving, caring,
supportive marriage is one of the most powerful things we
can do for our children. Yes. You know, giving them
that kind of model. So important.
S1 (20:41):
Totally.
S4 (20:42):
Of course, a the big part of that is also
learning how to listen. And in the book you give
tips on becoming a better listener. Why is listening so important,
and what are some of those tips?
S1 (20:53):
Yeah. Listening shows. I'm interested in you. I care about you.
And Doctor Chapman, I thought I am a good listener.
You know, I've just always thought about that. About myself.
I'm a good listener. And then I realized, oh, no,
I'm not a good listener. So these are the tips
I learned in my own marriage. And we read a
book about it. And then James told me about it.
It's like, oh, yeah, that does sound like me. The
(21:15):
first kind of listener is an assumptive listener, and that's
how I am, is you assume you know what the
person's talking about. So for me, I'm always finishing James's sentences.
He'll say like, oh, I want to volunteer for this thing.
And I'll say, oh yeah, they really need volunteers. And
you're so good at this, and you'd be so great
at that. And he's like, uh, actually I was going
(21:37):
to say something totally different. You know, so so he'll
he'll joke like, uh. Do you want to try again?
You know, that's kind of his line. That means. Arlene,
please stop filling my mouth with words. And please just
listen to me. And don't assume that you know what
I'm going to say. And please, let me finish. So,
an assumptive listener, if you catch yourself, you know, and
it's I feel like it comes from this place of
(21:58):
wanting them to feel like, oh, I know exactly what
you're saying. I'm tracking with you. But for me, it
means shut your mouth. Let them finish and then comment
about it. So the assumptive listener. The second is the fixer.
And a lot of times, you know, this can be
the husband of your saying something, and then they just
come in and fix it and you're thinking, I didn't
(22:19):
want it fixed. I just want you to listen. And
so that's really helpful if you just tell them, hey,
I just want to tell you about the stress I'm
feeling right now. I do not want you to fix it.
And a lot of times that does it. And then
you can tell it and then they're like, oh, that
sounds like a lot. And everybody's happy. And then the
third type is the celebrity listener. And I think we
(22:40):
are all the celebrity listener and the celebrity listener. We're
always shifting the conversation back to us. So if my
husband is sharing about his terrible boss, that is being
very challenging, then I'm like, oh, I remember when I
had this terrible boss and I just take the whole
conversation and I make it about me. And so just
(23:00):
think of like a spotlight on the other, on the
person who is talking. And when they are talking, they
are the celebrity. You are not the celebrity. They are
the celebrity. Let them have their moment and just be
there for their moment. You don't have to turn every
single one of their moments into an opportunity to talk
about yourself and watch yourself. Because we all do this.
(23:23):
We all do this. And so just be sensitive to it.
You know, obviously there is give and take and it's
fine to share your stories. You know, that's fine. But
the idea is whoever is the speaker, you're the focus
of attention, not me, the listener.
S4 (23:38):
Yeah, I think a lot of our listeners are going
are identifying with those responses that you talked about. So
now your husband, James puts some interesting items on your
wedding registry. What did those teach you about having different expectations?
S1 (23:57):
Yeah, people are very different, aren't they? So they come in.
We were long distance, so I was living in Virginia
and he was living in Texas when we were engaged.
So I told him, you go to the superstore, you
take the little scanner and you get whatever you want. Great.
So I walk into the store in my city and
I print out the wedding registry, and I'm reading it
(24:17):
and I'm like, wait a minute. I had all this
camping equipment, which makes sense considering our conversation earlier. So
it had a tent and a little, little cooking thing
and a little lamp. And I'm thinking, why in the
world do we need this? You know, so I keep
reading and then I read like, bug spray, like, there's like,
wasp like things that you would spray to get rid
of wasps and ants. And then there was, a, like,
(24:41):
Advil and Tylenol and Tums, and I'm just getting sweaty
and nervous. Right? And then I can't believe it. I
think I'm I'm like, I can't believe my eyes. He
has lubricant, K-Y jelly on the list, and I am
just freaking out. And I think to myself, wait a minute. Okay. Oh,
I get it. This must be a practical joke. He
must be sending all his groomsmen to this store, and
(25:04):
he thinks this is so funny. That sounds so like James.
That's so funny. We did not have cell phones at
that time. Of course, so I call. I went home,
called him on the phone. Honey, that's so funny. I
was just at the store and I saw your registry
with the ant ant bait. And that's so funny. Like
a practical joke. And he was completely silent. And he's like,
(25:25):
what's so funny? And, like, the things you put on
the registry? That was funny. He's like, those are the
things I want for my home. I don't want a
candy dish. I don't want a set of plates. Those
are practical things I need for our first apartment. And
I'm like, what? So I could not believe Doctor Chapman
and Chris that I was the one on the defense.
(25:47):
Like I'm the one who has to defend that. You
put Toms on our wedding registry. So I tried to
think of a word picture. Right. Because that's what they
tell you, that people use a word picture. In our counseling,
we were learning this. I said, imagine you went to
the Queen and you wrapped a beautiful gift, and she
opened it and it was Windex. I was like, that
would be inappropriate, right? So. So I guess it worked
(26:10):
enough so that we took everything off the list except
the camping equipment. So I was so pleased. But it
was funny because I thought I was so right, like.
And he was so wrong. And then I realized, oh
my goodness, in his eyes, what he did was right.
Because when we did get to that apartment, there were
(26:31):
a lot of bugs in that apartment, and we could
use some Tylenol, you know. so you realize with the
expectations like, oh my goodness, I think you are so wrong,
but actually in your own eyes and in your own way,
you're right to so to to really give each other
the benefit of the doubt that okay, your expectation is valid,
(26:52):
just as mine is.
S4 (26:53):
Yeah.
S2 (26:59):
This is the building relationships with Doctor Gary Chapman podcast.
Thanks for listening and for telling others about our conversations.
When you go to five Love Languages. Com you can
find more ways to strengthen your relationships. Just click the
resources tab and you'll find the podcast there and today's
featured resource again go to five Love Languages. Com.
S4 (27:24):
Arlene, in the book you talk about various decisions. And
one of those decisions is about transferring the atmosphere of
your home from complaining to giving thanks. Why is complaining
such a danger in a marriage?
S1 (27:41):
Yeah, to give thanks every day. That decision, you know.
Think about if you have a person in your life
who is always saying, oh, it's too hot. Oh, she
was so rude. Oh, I can't believe they served me this.
This is the wrong order. Like, do you want to
be around this person? Right. Like, we're like, this is
not a pleasant person to be around. And I think
(28:05):
with strangers or with casual acquaintances, even with our friends,
we can show that common courtesy of of not complaining,
but with our spouses, you know, and even with our kids,
we can kind of let it all go loose right
at home and just be grumbling and complaining. And that
is a very unattractive person to be with and really
not very fun to be yourself to. And so what
(28:27):
can change that? What can transform that spirit of grumbling
and complaining? And let's remember the children of Israel when
they were wandering around the desert and they could not
enter the Promised Land. It wasn't for those big sins
of murder or idolatry like they made another calf or adultery.
It was. They were complaining. They had a grumbling attitude
(28:47):
that this manna isn't enough. This quail is. We didn't
really like it. We liked it the first day after that.
We didn't like it. This whole cloud by day, fire
by night, we're over it. Like, these were miraculous ways.
God was taking care of his children. And his children
were like, we we don't really like this. We. And
they grumbled, and you see that harsh consequence because it
(29:11):
was the opposite of being thankful to God. Being thankful.
Thank you for what I had. So in a marriage,
if you can transform from oh my goodness, I can't
believe you did that. You're always doing that wrong. You
always leave the toilet seat up, blah blah blah blah.
Instead of grumbling that we are thankful, I'm. I'm really
thankful you're alive. I mean, if you have to start there,
(29:34):
there are a lot of people who have lost their spouses,
or their spouses are gravely ill, and they do anything
for a spouse that walks around, you know. So for you,
just start being grateful. Turn that to God, because that's
what what God wants us to do. We know that
give thanks to God and and start giving thanks for
your marriage.
S4 (29:53):
It's amazing how much that could transform the atmosphere, isn't it?
S1 (29:57):
Yes.
S4 (29:57):
When you give thanks rather than complaining.
S1 (30:00):
Yep.
S4 (30:00):
But if you have that pattern, it. You know, you
may have to ask God to help me. Lord help me.
You know my natural tendency here. Yeah, well, another topic
you deal with is social media and how it impacts marriages.
What can a couple do to help eliminate some of
the harmful effects of social media?
S1 (30:21):
Recognizing that what you see on social media is not
real life. You know, when you looked at a magazine
or a TV show, you knew like, oh, they spent hours,
like making their house look so nice or oh, that's
like just for the camera because it's this TV show.
But now we have in our pockets social media that
shows us like our friends. And I say that kind
(30:42):
of in air quotes, like people like us, like our peers,
but it also shows us celebrities and all sorts of
people who have, you know, that's their whole job is
to make their house or their marriage look super, super
amazing and happy. And when you look at that constantly,
you'll think, well, I don't have that. I don't have
a house like that. I don't have a cute spouse
like that. I don't go to fun locales with my spouse.
(31:04):
And all of a sudden, what does this do? We're
not thankful we're comparing and we're falling short. And so
if you realize, wait a minute, this is really not
helping me in my marriage, because think of it, how
much social media helps you? Like, oh, that really supported
my marriage. You know what I mean? Like like, hopefully
they could could come and they'll see something that you create,
(31:25):
something that I create and, and hopefully that will help
them think, oh, you know, let's, let's do this thing.
But believe me, my social media following is a whole
lot tinier than most, right? So what we're normally seeing
is not supportive to your marriage. You're looking at an advertisement.
You're looking at something to buy. You're looking at someone
that you wish you had their life. And so recognize that.
(31:48):
And if that's a problem, take a fast say, hey,
you know what, for one week, I'm not going to
do any social media and just see what that does
to your mind, to your heart, to your outlook. Be open.
If you ask your spouse, hey, am I? Am I
on my phone too much? Do you feel like I'm
like scrolling through social media too much because your spouse
may say, yeah, I kind of wish you were more
(32:10):
present with me. And you'd look at me, you know,
it could be sports, it could be checking stock quotes,
it could be Netflix, it could be anything but be here,
you know, and I talk about, like when you go
on vacation, your vacation is to be together. It's not
to make a social media reel. You know, a lot
of us will get to a spot and think, oh,
this would be such a beautiful thing to post on
social media. And then the whole thing becomes making this
(32:33):
amazing thing for social media. And I say, no, take
a few pictures, put your phone in your pocket and
enjoy that for your spouse. He is your audience. She
is your audience. Not all these thousands of followers who
don't even hardly know you. So keep all these kinds
of things in mind that the real relationship of your spouse,
that's what's most important to tend and care for, not
(32:54):
your social media feed.
S4 (32:57):
Well, we know that in marriage there are hard times
and marriages are tested in the hard times. You talk
about a miscarriage you had at 26 weeks. How did
you and your husband navigate that loss?
S1 (33:10):
Yeah. You know, and I and people grieve in different ways,
you know, so I kind of wanted to talk about it.
James was maybe a little bit more quiet about it.
And there was, you know, you're at different places in it.
So one might be going further along and then one
might be taking a little bit longer. Right. So just
be sensitive to that, that you deal with difficulties in
(33:32):
different ways. Be available to each other. But I really
think that when we lost that baby, it was such
a time where God carried us. When the Lord helped
us like we'd be at church and the exact right,
you know, song would come, or someone would pray over
us and it would be exactly what we needed for
that day. So be immersed yourself with with spiritual people
(33:56):
who love you, care about you, and who can speak
truth and comfort in your life. So I think that
was a huge thing, to be able to navigate that
together and then to be able to, you know, have
I think it's that mindset that says the difficulties will
strengthen us. They won't weaken us because they can, because
(34:17):
then you've gone through this thing together and no one
else has gone through it but you, the two of you.
That's it. You know, you are the ones that were
in the eye of the storm. And if you can
be in the eye of the storm together, come out
on the other side. Boom. It just it levels up
your relationship. And I know for many, though, when that
eye of the storm hits, it's like it just throws
(34:38):
them opposite directions. Right. And that difficulty really harms them.
So I think if you can be praying together, if
you can find like, you know, like I mentioned, going
to church, you know, be be regular. Don't don't skip
going to church because you're going through a hard time.
Go to church together and and find that healing together
(34:59):
as a couple.
S4 (35:01):
Yeah. Yeah. You know, another decision you talk about is
the importance of serving your spouse. Now, I think there
are a lot of people today who have the notion that, well,
that's an old fashioned idea, serving because they have the
idea of, you know, a wife is going to, you know,
he's going to take advantage of me. All I've got
to do is serve him. But but explain that to us. What?
(35:22):
What is biblical service?
S1 (35:23):
Yeah. You look at Jesus. Right? And what do the
gospels tell us? The Son of Man came to serve.
We cannot get around it. So as much as we think,
I don't want to serve that. I want someone to
serve me, you know, or I want to be their equal. Right?
That would be more like I want to be their equal.
I don't need to serve them. They need to respect me.
But this whole idea of, you know what? I care
(35:45):
about you. And if there's something I can do to
help you, I will. So I think it is this
attitude of I will help you. It's not this attitude
of like, oh, I'm just so less than and you
can step all over me and I'm, I'm not even worthy,
you know, to bring you your water. No, that's not
that's not what I'm talking about. But it is this
idea of like, hey, I'm I'm around to make your
(36:08):
life easier. I mean, can you imagine if each spouse
that was there thought of like, hey, you know what?
I'm here today. I'm here to make your life easier.
And if you approached it that way, you need something.
How can I help you? You know my daughter, she's
a sophomore in high school. She is. You know, like
this particular day, she has to stay after school because
she has this dance recital, so she kind of is busy.
(36:30):
So in the morning I'll say, how can I help you?
Can I, you know, usually she makes her lunch herself,
all these different things, but she's got more to do
to get ready. So I say, you know, how can
I help you? So again, we do it kind of
easily with our children, but in the same. And so
does that mean she's going to walk all over me? No.
As long as she has responsibilities. No, she's going to
be like, thank you, mom. Thank you for helping me.
(36:52):
So for our spouses to have that same attitude. Oh, boy. Honey,
you have a big day at work today. How can
I help you today? You know, that's that's serving your spouse.
And that's something really beautiful and life giving. It is
not demeaning or punitive.
S4 (37:08):
You know that that question that you worded, how can
I make your life easier is one of the questions
that literally turned my marriage around. When I asked, my
wife started asking her on a regular basis, how can
I make your life easier today? You know, how can
I make your life easier? And she typically had an idea,
you know.
S1 (37:30):
She said pick up the vacuum.
S4 (37:31):
Yeah. When I did that, you know, I mean, she
she felt, you know, treasured and loved. Yeah. So yeah,
that's super important. It's a Christian lifestyle, really. You know,
because that's what love is all about. It's serving other people. Yeah. Now,
you and your husband were on the today show, which
was a dream for you. How can spouses support one
(37:54):
another's dreams?
S1 (37:56):
Yeah. I think this was such a funny situation because
I was asked for one of my books to come
on the today show, but they said you can only
come if we like your husband because we want him
to come also. So they asked, does your husband have
any videos of him that we can watch? And of course,
my husband, he's just like a normal guy. He's not
like a, you know, YouTube sensation. But he had posted
(38:19):
a YouTube video of him making kettle corn like an
instructional video of how to make kettle corn. So I
thought to myself, oh my goodness. My appearance on the
Today show is contingent upon this kettle corn video. So
it was kind of funny, but thankfully they said, oh well,
he can talk, he'll be fine. So they had him
on and I thought to myself, what a husband. Because
(38:42):
I at that time had done interviews and many of
them in the past. But this was James's first ever
media interview. He'd never been interviewed in his entire life.
And he's going on the Today Show, you know? So
it's like, go big or go home. And so I
really admired that. He was like, he didn't even hesitate. Yes,
(39:02):
I will do that. That would be great for you.
I will do that. And we practiced we put little
stools up in our house and I asked him questions
and he sat on the stool and he answered my questions.
We even set up an event at our church where
we did a little informal Q&A so that people could
ask us questions, and he could get used to giving
answers like, I mean, this is amazing. This is my
(39:23):
husband that he will like, oh, let me learn, I
will grow, I will do it, I will help you.
So having this attitude, you know of, hey, if if
this is important to you, then it's important to me too.
Now I give this this little side note though, if
it's the kind of dream that has become an obsession, right?
(39:43):
It's like everything is about this dream and the marriage
is falling apart and the kids are falling apart. And
you never sleep anymore because you're pursuing this dream. You know,
dreams should unite you as a couple, not divide you.
And if you're finding that, yeah, it's hard, but it's
actually dividing us, you know? Then it's time to talk
about it. Is this a dream that we both can
get behind to support one another? And it should be
(40:07):
something that enhances your marriage and not detracts from it.
S4 (40:11):
Yeah, yeah. Well, we talked a bit earlier about the
importance of fun in a marriage. And I know in
your book you have a long list, really, of activities
that husbands and wives can try together. And of course
we all have different interests and that sort of thing.
But could you share some of the things you and
your husband do for fun that might help the rest
(40:34):
of us?
S1 (40:34):
Yes, and you will find a very long list in
the book. That is something you're going to find, something
that you have in common. So for my husband and I,
it has been hard to find fun things because he's
much more athletic and I am not. He is very
outdoorsy and I am not, you know, so it's like,
oh my goodness, what are we going to do? So
part of the thing is having the attitude like, okay,
(40:56):
if you like it, I'll try it. So we have
done everything from rollerblading to skiing to martial arts to
dancing to ultimate frisbee, to, you know, all these different things.
And what we have kind of settled on right now.
We are in the age of dancing, so we are
going to a ballroom dance class. So we're learning how
(41:17):
to waltz and foxtrot and salsa and tango and all
this stuff. And it's very funny because the first time
we went, you know, it's this huge ballroom and there
are lessons there, but it's all, you know, people probably
age 60 and up who dance really well. Yeah. So
we got there and we do not know what we're doing.
It's as if a neon sign was over our heads, like,
(41:40):
we are new and we are terrible, you know? So
all these people came up to us and they're trying
to help us, and we're trying to imitate what they do.
I mean, I thought for sure that first lesson, I'm like,
we are never coming back here. Like, we are really
bad at this. But you know what? We kept going.
And we're a year in and we're actually decent where
(42:01):
we can get around the floor now. And we figured
it's something we can do together. It's something it is fun.
Like we both think it's fun. And then we realize
as we get older, like, you can keep doing this.
So for us right now, it's dancing. We play ultimate
Frisbee with our kids, which is kind of like soccer
with the Frisbee. So a lot of running and you're
scoring goals and we started that during Covid, playing every
(42:24):
Sunday afternoon. And believe it or not, since 2020 till
today we are still playing every afternoon and with other
families and people and it's it's we never want to
go by. We I mean, Lucy and I, we my
daughter and I, we are like, oh, we have to
go again. We're so lazy. We don't want to go.
But every time we go, we have a lot of fun.
(42:45):
So sometimes with the fun, you kind of drag your
feet on it. Like, I don't want to go do that.
A lot of effort. But after it's over, you're like,
that was hilarious. That was really fun. So those are
a few of the fun things we do.
S4 (42:57):
Well, I think that long list that you have in
the book is going to be helpful to some people,
because there's some who are hearing the things you and
James have done and say, oh, I could never do that.
You know.
S1 (43:06):
I don't want to do that. Yeah, there are much
more quieter things to do too.
S4 (43:10):
Yeah, but the but the list covers a lot of
personality types. I think that people will find those to
be helpful. Now, you and your husband, James, have been
married now for 26 years. And you say that of
all ages, at all ages in a marriage, people should
be preparing for the golden years. So, uh, how how
(43:31):
do you and how do you prepare for the golden years?
And what are you all doing?
S1 (43:36):
Yeah, we're so short term sometimes. Right? We just think, like,
how can I get through the day without realizing, hey,
the habits I have today that affects the quality of
my life tomorrow. You know, and when we think of
these senior years, golden years, you know, now, James and
I are in our 50s. So now it's not as
we used to think, that 55 plus thing where they
were really old people. Now we're like, oh no, those
(43:57):
people are not old at all. Those are very young people.
So how can we prepare for those things? And part
of it is liking each other, right. So that when
your kids leave and your empty nesters, you still like
one another. Well, how do you do that? How what
what made you like them in the first place? You
had fun together. You cared about each other. You had conversations.
(44:18):
You had novel experiences. So some of the things you
can do to prepare now for those golden years is
keep being together like, you know, decide. Obviously, I'm going
to stay married, but then really keep showing up. Go
to the date nights, you know, make that a priority.
Try novel experiences whether it's you know, that we it
(44:39):
doesn't have to be an athletic pursuit. It could be
a cooking class. You know, try a novel experience together
so that you're used to growing and learning so that
when you're in your later years, you still have that
rhythm that you can keep learning and growing that that
would be fun. You know, they, uh, they talked about
in a book about how What makes a Happy Retiree
(45:01):
by Wes Moss and they talked about the happy retirees
have 3.6 core pursuits together. So in other words, they
have about 3 or 4 activities they like to do
together that could be taking grandkids out, playing chess, you know,
going on vacation to a, you know, to Hawaii. You know,
(45:21):
so they. But there are things they like to do together.
So if that's what makes us happy in the golden years,
why not have a little practice now, right? So? So
do those things together. So that when it comes time,
you're used to doing those things.
S4 (45:34):
You know, the big thing now with a lot of
our friends is pickleball.
S1 (45:37):
That's right. Yes, exactly. Have you given it a try,
Doctor Chapman?
S4 (45:42):
I have not given it a try. No, I have
to be honest, I have not. But so many of
our friends have. And of course, some of our friends
have also gotten injured in pickleball.
S1 (45:53):
It comes at a bit of a cost.
S4 (45:54):
You're right. Well, Arlene, this has been fun chatting with
you again. Of course, I've always enjoyed being with you
and James and your family and interfacing with them along
the way. And the books you and I have written together. Uh,
I've always enjoyed doing that, but. So good to have
you with us today, and thanks for writing this book
that really focuses on marriage. And I think whether couples
(46:15):
are dating and thinking about marriage, this book would be
a good book to work through together, or whether you've
been married for a while. Either way, I think it's
going to be helpful. So again, thanks for being with
us today.
S1 (46:26):
Thank you so much. It's been so fun.
S3 (46:29):
And if you go to Building relationships you will see
our featured resource today, the book Making Marriage Easier How
to Love and Like Your Spouse for life. It's written
by our guest today, Arlene Pelikan. Just go to Building
Relationships to find out more. And coming up next week,
our summer best of programs continue with the practical broadcast
(46:52):
on reducing stress in your life. Don't miss it.
S2 (46:56):
Well, a big thank you to our production team, Steve
Wick and Janice. Backing building relationships with Doctor Gary Chapman
is a production of Moody Radio in Chicago, in association
with Moody Publishers. Thanks for listening.
That's what I mean by easier. How can we take
this thing called marriage and take kind of the sting
out of it? How can we make things not so
difficult to have a conversation, maybe, or to have date night?
You know, what are things we can do that are
rhythms that we just start doing, and it's not so
hard anymore.
S2 (00:25):
Welcome to building relationships with Doctor Gary Chapman, author of
the New York Times best seller The Five Love Languages.
Is it possible to love your spouse for a lifetime?
Is it possible to just like your spouse for a lifetime?
If that feels like an unattainable goal, we have some
help and hope for you today.
S3 (00:43):
Author and speaker Arlene Pelikan will join us for another
Summer Best of broadcast that aired just before Valentine's Day
this year, so you may hear some dated references. Arlene
has been working on her latest book more than 25 years.
That's how long she and her husband have been married.
Her goal is to make marriage easier. And that's the
title of the book you'll find at Building Relationships, Making
(01:07):
Marriage Easier. And Gary, that seems to go right along
with your ministry through the years.
S4 (01:13):
Yeah, that's what I've tried to do through the years,
but I'm really glad that Arlene is joining in the
marriage event here. You know, she's written a lot about
children and relationships with children. She and I have written
some books together, but I am really glad to have
her on the program today. I think our audience is
going to really enjoy this and find it very helpful.
S3 (01:33):
Well, Arlene is a speaker, the author of a number
of books, as Gary just mentioned, host of the Happy
Home Podcast. She's a spokesperson for National Marriage Week as well.
We've talked about 31 days to a happy husband growing up,
social screen kids and parents rising. If you go to
building relationships, her latest is right there Making Marriage Easier
(01:55):
How to Love and Like your Spouse for life. Just
go to building relationships.
S4 (02:01):
Well, Arlene, welcome back to Building Relationships.
S1 (02:04):
It's so wonderful to be back. Thank you so much
for having me.
S4 (02:07):
Well, let's talk about the why of this book. It
seems to me you want to share some hope for
those who are thinking about marriage, and also those that
are already married and maybe struggling. Is that true?
S1 (02:21):
Yeah. I have two college aged students and students, children
and and a high schooler. And I see that many
of these like 20 somethings, 30 somethings that I'm meeting,
they're like, ah, I don't I don't know if I'm
going to get married. Like, I don't really want to
get married. That looks really hard. And and so I'm
kind of a little bit alarmed because I'll see this
from good, solid Christian homes, right. Who had a very
(02:43):
positive view of marriage. And then I'm thinking like, why
don't you want to get married? So the book partially
is for younger people to say, wait a minute, this
marriage thing sounds awesome. I want to do this. So
how can we make that easier for them? More attainable,
something that they want. And then for those of us
who are already married, you know that we hear things like, oh,
it's so hard. It's so difficult. He's so ornery, she's
(03:07):
so insensitive and unresponsive. You know, you hear all these things.
So just in the same way, when we know we
have to do something, we think to ourselves, well, how
do I make this easier? You know, that's just how
we are. How can we make cooking easier? It's like, oh,
we have all these things. We get the all the
food in the box, and then we prepared ourselves. So
for me, what I want to do for this book
is like, you know, here's your marriage in a box,
(03:28):
so to speak. Let's make it easier for you. Not easy,
because it's going to require effort, but easier.
S4 (03:35):
Yeah. Well, you describe in the book early on a
backpacking trip that you made with your family. Uh, what
lessons did you learn from that experience?
S1 (03:44):
Yeah. So. So right off the gate, right out of
the gate, it's like, okay, you're a hiker and a
camper kind of person, and I'm like a lodge and
a sit by the fire kind of person. And I
think most couples are kind of like that. So this
was a little bit a lot of bit of of
give for me to say, okay, I will go in
the wilderness with a £25 backpack with everything I need
(04:07):
just on my back for three days. I will go
to the bathroom in the wild, like I will do
this to show my love, right? So when and this was,
you know, near Mammoth Lakes in California, it was spectacularly beautiful. Uh,
you know, so I get that. And we're making these
beautiful memories with our three children. Everyone is ecstatic, pretty much,
except me. So. So we're walking, and when it's beautiful
(04:30):
and doable, I was like, this is fantastic. I am
going to do this again. You can sign me up
next year. I will join you. But when it was
uphill for like two hours and I'm just struggling with
that pack on my back, or when we got to
a patch of snow and it's like, wait a minute,
I don't think we can pass this. We need to
find a different way. You know, when we were in
(04:52):
those kinds of moments, I'm like, oh no, I've done
my due diligence. I came the one time. I am
not doing this again. And it reminded me as I'm walking,
you know, I was I was working on this book
Making Marriage easier as I'm on this hike and I
it reminded me so much like, wow, this is like marriage.
Like when it's beautiful vistas and not that much effort.
(05:13):
It's like, yeah, I love marriage. Marriage is great. But
when it's, wow, we've got financial difficulties, we're having trouble
in the bedroom. We hardly talk anymore. Like, why are
you on my case all the time? Then you're like,
maybe this was the wrong journey. Maybe. Maybe we should
call it quits, you know? So it is this idea
of you can look just like I saw the trail
map and I could see, like, oh, yeah, this is
going to be difficult. I could see the little dotted
(05:34):
lines going up and down, right. The elevation. But until
you're actually there, you don't really know what how difficult
it's going to be. But in that moment you have
to decide, I am going to finish this loop like
I am going to get to the end, I will,
I will see this through. I remember on the trip
I said to James, if I could pay someone $5,000
(05:56):
to airlift me out of this spot. I actually.
S4 (05:59):
I.
S1 (05:59):
Actually think I would. But, you know, marriage is not
like that. You cannot pay to get out. You know,
you have to say like, hey, I started this, I
made this vow, I'm going to finish it. And just
having that mindset of, hey, this is what I chose.
It's going to have highs, it's going to have lows,
and I'm going to go through it all. That makes
marriage easier because then you're not always thinking, how do
(06:20):
I get out? You know, what can I do?
S4 (06:21):
Yeah. Yeah. Well, talk about that word easier. That's that's
part of the title. Yeah. So what do you mean
by easier?
S1 (06:29):
You know, when you make that decision, like I'm going
to get healthier. So I'm going to go to the
gym and I'm going to. So I get by my
gym membership. But then you never go right. It's like, oh,
that was fun. I went for two weeks and then
I never go. So I might make that easier by saying,
I will go to a specific class once a week,
and then I might have a friend meet me at
(06:49):
that specific class, and we might make a bet that
if you don't show up to the class, you owe
me the next lunch and then I'll put my shoes.
If I'm a woman, I'll put my shoes and my
little outfit, you know, out right next to my bed
so that I know what to do. And what have
I done? I've made it easier. I've made it like, okay,
now I'm actually going to go because my clothes are set.
The decisions have been made. There's something that will happen
(07:11):
to me if I don't do it, and I can't
let this person down that I'm meeting. And so that's
what I mean by easier how can we take this
thing called marriage and take kind of the sting out
of it? How can we make things not so difficult
to have a conversation, maybe, or to have date night?
You know, what are things we can do that are
(07:31):
rhythms that we just start doing and it's not so
hard anymore?
S4 (07:36):
Yeah, well, I think those who will read the book
are going to find that it's true. It can be easier.
S1 (07:43):
Yes.
S4 (07:44):
Now, for those listening who are struggling in their marriage,
Valentine's day is coming up and they don't really feel
love for their spouse. I remember when I was there,
way back in my marriage. What do you say to them?
S1 (07:59):
First, I'm sorry that you're in that spot. It's a
hard spot. I think it starts with that prayer. Lord,
I've made this commitment to my spouse. Help me to
see my spouse like you see them. Help me to
want to serve my spouse. Help me to want to
reach out to them and not give up, you know.
So start there and then just think about, you know,
there are many times we don't want to go to work.
(08:20):
We don't feel like going to work, but we go.
There are times where I don't feel like doing laundry,
but I do it. You know, there are a lot
of things in life that we do, even if we
don't feel it. I think of even at worship, at church,
if you're to sing but you don't feel like singing
that particular morning. But guess what? When you decide I
will sing, I will praise like I'm going to do that.
(08:42):
Those feelings follow. Like you start singing praise to God.
You start thanking him for he is good and his
love endures forever. Those feelings then will follow. And it
is the same in your marriage that when you think, okay,
I don't feel like loving you, but I will act
in a loving way, right? I will act kindly. I
will act with service. Then not long thereafter, I think
(09:06):
those feelings will follow. So don't pursue the feeling or
use the feeling as a barometer because they are. Feelings
will lie to us. Our feelings, you know, the they
can say, you know, oh, he's so difficult. He never,
you know, he never notices you. And you start listening
to those feelings and you get kind of in a huff.
But if you say to yourself, no, no, no, no, wait,
(09:26):
what is the truth of this matter? Hey, I made
a commitment. I'm going to look for what's good. And
those feelings will follow.
S4 (09:34):
Early in the book, you made four decisions with your husband, James,
that have made marriage easier for you. Can you tell
us what those four decisions were?
S1 (09:44):
Yeah. And these work, whether you're newlyweds or you've been
married for 50 years. Uh, the decision, number one, play
by the rules pre-decide what your will do and what
you won't do. So this is again like we were
talking about earlier. Don't follow feelings, follow the commands of God.
So you know, in the Bible, the Psalm one tells
(10:05):
us that blessed is the one who delights in the
law of the Lord. So it's like, I love these
rules because these rules bring me life. So that's the
idea here. Like there are rules to marriage and they're
found in God's word. And if you love to follow them,
you're going to do really well. So what decision one
play by the rules. Decision two give thanks every day.
(10:26):
So every day you're finding something in your marriage to
be thankful for. You're saying thank you God for my spouse.
Thank you that you're with us. So it is just
this attitude in your home that is rooted in gratefulness,
in gratitude, and not in complaining and wishing you had
someone else's life decision. Number three serve your spouse and
(10:47):
I use you and Carolyn in the book. Gary here
that how can you serve your spouse? And how can
you say, what can I do for you? Instead of, well,
what have you done for me lately? Because those are
two very different people to live with. And then decision
number four is take fun seriously. You know, when you
were dating and falling in love, it was all about fun.
(11:09):
And then you get the mortgage. You get the kids,
you get work. You get you're on the internet all
the time. And all of a sudden everything's so serious
and nothing is fun. And you stop having fun together,
and you think that that's just an extra that you
can't afford. Well, I'm here to tell you, you can't
afford not to have fun, because it is the fun
that brought you together and helps you keep together.
S4 (11:29):
Yeah, yeah. Okay. I want to go back to that
first one. Play by the rules. In that section, you
describe what you call the Power hour. What is the
Power hour?
S1 (11:43):
This one. You guys are going to love this because
it involves eating. We love eating, right. So the power
hour is having meals together. And I'm sure, Doctor Chapman,
that this was something that people did without having need,
without even having to bring it up. Right? People used
to eat together. But now if you ask people you know,
think about it for your own home. Think of it
(12:03):
for your friends. How many meals a week do you
guys eat together? A lot of people will say like, oh,
you know, just a few, because usually we just grab
our food and then everybody goes into their own rooms
and does their homework or watches, sports or whatever it is. Right?
So this Power Hour is the rhythm of eating together
with your spouse every single day. Now, I know people
(12:27):
are going to say, wait a minute, that's legalistic. Or
you know what? If I'm hungry? You mean I have
to wait for my spouse to come home? So this isn't.
We never signed on the dotted line. Thou may not
eat until I get here, you know, but it's just
the rhythm of, hey, we normally eat dinner together, you know,
obviously if you're out of town, you can't do that
if you're separate. Obviously, I get that. But we will
(12:48):
eat together. We'll wait for each other if it's reasonable.
You know, in our home, it's kind of like if
it's after 7:00, it's like, okay, sorry, buddy, we got
to eat. But it's it's something, a rhythm that this
is normal. It would feel abnormal if we didn't sit
down and eat together. This could be dinner. This could be, um,
you know, maybe you're very busy in the, in the
(13:08):
on the evening, so you have to actually schedule a
lunch date with your, with your spouse. That's okay. That's
what you used to do when you're dating. Maybe it
just looks like drinking your coffee together in the morning,
but it is this idea that every single day we
will connect over some kind of food, right? Or coffee
because it gives you then, like friendship, you need friendship
(13:31):
and companionship. And if you don't have space for that,
then everyone gets busy. And then that's why you feel like, well,
we don't even hardly know each other anymore. So start
with that power hour. I thought about it. We've been
married over 25 years. We've pretty much eaten a meal
every day together since we said I do. So I thought,
that is like 10,000 meals together. So you think to yourself,
(13:52):
wait a minute, if I have 10,000 meals with someone,
I'm going to be pretty close to them. So eat together.
S4 (13:59):
And I know you would also say, don't answer your
cell phone. That's right. While you're eating.
S1 (14:04):
Even. Don't even have it on the table. Put it
away so you don't even see it. That's exactly right.
S4 (14:10):
You know, I could not agree more with this. It's
just powerful. And you know, when the kids come along,
then you're eating with the kids and your and your spouse. Yeah.
And we did that through all those years. Our kids
are grown now. Of course, they look back and say,
those are one of the fondest memories we have sitting
around the table talking about life together, you know, sharing
life together. So great for the marriage, great for the kids.
S1 (14:32):
Yes.
S4 (14:33):
Now you also deal with sexual intimacy in this section. Uh,
you know, I'm often asked the question how much sex
is normal or healthy for a couple? I don't know
how you answer that or if you answer that, but
give us some thoughts along those lines.
S1 (14:49):
Do you believe it or not? You will find this
in the book. But I've. I'm leaning on the research
of Doctor Michael. And Shante Felton on this one. But
the chapter is called. But we had sex last Tuesday,
you know, because for usually it's the woman doesn't always
have to be. But for the woman, it's kind of like, well, wait,
we did that like a long time ago. Isn't that enough?
And then for the husband, he's thinking like, well, no,
(15:12):
this is something that I want to do to connect with,
you know, it's not enough. So, you know, that has
definitely been something through the years. And I think a
lot of people can relate to that is okay. One
person wants a certain amount and the other person wants
a certain amount. How do you kind of meet in
the middle and how much is normal? So what they
found in terms of research of what was normal is
(15:34):
their researchers found that four times every three weeks was normal.
I know some of you are like, oh, phew, it's
not four times every week. Okay, great. Four times every
three weeks. So they said one and one third time,
basically per week. And they also were quick to say,
though that's what is normal. It's what people are doing.
It doesn't mean that that's the ideal. It's just kind
(15:57):
of what people are doing. But they did find that 94%
of those who said, hey, we are happy and satisfied
with our sexual relationship. 94% of those people have said
they were also happy in their marriages, which which follows,
like if you're having healthy physical intimacy, it lends to
that you have a healthy marriage. And they also said
(16:18):
that people who couples who had sex one time a
week or more were satisfied. So these are, you know,
these are things that you can look at like, okay,
my goodness, maybe it's been too long. And my husband
and I, we need to put, you know, I think
it was Doctor David Clark who said, if you're a
couple with children and you do not schedule your sex,
(16:38):
you do not have sex, right? So sometimes in some
parts of your time, of the season of life you're in,
you have to put it in the calendar and not
feel unromantic about that, but feel like, okay, our relationship
is important, so I'm going to make time for this.
S4 (16:54):
Yeah, no question about it. The sexual part of the
marriage is an important part of marriage. And you're right,
we do have different ideas. Most of the time in
terms of how often, etc., you know, but this is helpful.
S1 (17:06):
My other book, 31 days to a Happy Husband. I
remember when I was writing that one of James's friends
was like, why do you need 31 days? All you
have to do is like, say, make love to your
husband and he'll be very happy. So, so I thought,
you know, when you think of making marriage easier, I
think for, for many men, they would just think like, oh, well,
if we could be more intimate physically, that would make
(17:26):
marriage a lot easier for me.
S4 (17:28):
Yeah, yeah. One of the problems that many marriages face
is the change in the marriage relationship once the kids
come along. So how do you keep your marriage from
becoming all about the kids?
S1 (17:42):
I think this is really a modern problem. I think,
you know, in the days of, you know, like maybe
a generation or two, it's like you saw the kids
were part of the home, but they weren't the everything
of the home. Right? So when a baby comes into
your lives, of course, like when Ethan was born, it
was like Simba and The Lion King. It was like,
look who has come. And all of your life revolves
(18:03):
around keeping this baby alive. And that's okay, because you
really do have to revolve around that baby to keep
it alive. But once the baby turns two, five, ten, 15,
you've got to realize, wait a minute. Our whole universe
doesn't revolve around this child. But for a lot of us,
we might not see it, but we really are very
child centered. So things like this. You know me as
(18:25):
a mom, if I need to bring my, you know,
kids to school, and then I need to go get
them something for a sport, you know, they need something
and then I'm going to watch them play their sport,
and then I'm going to run home and have make dinner. Like,
I'm not going to think a thing of this. I'm
just going to do it because that's what I do.
I'm the mom. But if my husband, James, who is
a realtor, says, hey honey, could you look over this
(18:47):
letter for me and just see? Does this sound right
to you? I'm like, I have so much to do. Like,
you're a grown man. Look at it yourself. Use Grammarly,
you know. So I think sometimes if we can just
think to ourselves, do I treat my spouse with the
same type of service, willingness, time, speaking their love languages?
Do I do that as much for my spouse as
(19:10):
I do it for my kids? And I think for
many of us, we'd have to go, ouch. Like, I
don't really do that. So when the kids have an activity,
let's say, and you're trying to decide, okay, should we
do soccer again? Should we go on the volleyball team?
Should we play the clarinet? You know, and you're usually
we're asking all these questions because we are looking through
(19:32):
the lens of our child. But when we make those decisions,
let's also ask is, how is this going to impact
our marriage? Seriously? Like, how is this going to impact us?
Are we going to be not able to see each
other very much. Are we going to be so ragged
that we're kind of, you know, kind of mean to
each other? We don't have time to have date night.
We don't have time for, you know, all the things
(19:53):
that we just talked about, you know? So we have
to ask that, how is it for the marriage? How
is it for the rhythm of the family? So these
are the kinds of questions if you are not going
on a date, because even though you have a trusted babysitter,
you feel like, oh, the kids don't like it when
we go out. You know, that's that's a sign of
a child centered home that says, you know what, child
(20:14):
of mine? It's okay that you don't like it, that
Mommy and daddy are leaving for two hours, but we're
going to go ahead and do that anyway. So those
kinds of things kind of help us from becoming too
child centered.
S4 (20:26):
Yeah. You know, I've always felt that having an intimate, marriage, loving, caring,
supportive marriage is one of the most powerful things we
can do for our children. Yes. You know, giving them
that kind of model. So important.
S1 (20:41):
Totally.
S4 (20:42):
Of course, a the big part of that is also
learning how to listen. And in the book you give
tips on becoming a better listener. Why is listening so important,
and what are some of those tips?
S1 (20:53):
Yeah. Listening shows. I'm interested in you. I care about you.
And Doctor Chapman, I thought I am a good listener.
You know, I've just always thought about that. About myself.
I'm a good listener. And then I realized, oh, no,
I'm not a good listener. So these are the tips
I learned in my own marriage. And we read a
book about it. And then James told me about it.
It's like, oh, yeah, that does sound like me. The
(21:15):
first kind of listener is an assumptive listener, and that's
how I am, is you assume you know what the
person's talking about. So for me, I'm always finishing James's sentences.
He'll say like, oh, I want to volunteer for this thing.
And I'll say, oh yeah, they really need volunteers. And
you're so good at this, and you'd be so great
at that. And he's like, uh, actually I was going
(21:37):
to say something totally different. You know, so so he'll
he'll joke like, uh. Do you want to try again?
You know, that's kind of his line. That means. Arlene,
please stop filling my mouth with words. And please just
listen to me. And don't assume that you know what
I'm going to say. And please, let me finish. So,
an assumptive listener, if you catch yourself, you know, and
it's I feel like it comes from this place of
(21:58):
wanting them to feel like, oh, I know exactly what
you're saying. I'm tracking with you. But for me, it
means shut your mouth. Let them finish and then comment
about it. So the assumptive listener. The second is the fixer.
And a lot of times, you know, this can be
the husband of your saying something, and then they just
come in and fix it and you're thinking, I didn't
(22:19):
want it fixed. I just want you to listen. And
so that's really helpful if you just tell them, hey,
I just want to tell you about the stress I'm
feeling right now. I do not want you to fix it.
And a lot of times that does it. And then
you can tell it and then they're like, oh, that
sounds like a lot. And everybody's happy. And then the
third type is the celebrity listener. And I think we
(22:40):
are all the celebrity listener and the celebrity listener. We're
always shifting the conversation back to us. So if my
husband is sharing about his terrible boss, that is being
very challenging, then I'm like, oh, I remember when I
had this terrible boss and I just take the whole
conversation and I make it about me. And so just
(23:00):
think of like a spotlight on the other, on the
person who is talking. And when they are talking, they
are the celebrity. You are not the celebrity. They are
the celebrity. Let them have their moment and just be
there for their moment. You don't have to turn every
single one of their moments into an opportunity to talk
about yourself and watch yourself. Because we all do this.
(23:23):
We all do this. And so just be sensitive to it.
You know, obviously there is give and take and it's
fine to share your stories. You know, that's fine. But
the idea is whoever is the speaker, you're the focus
of attention, not me, the listener.
S4 (23:38):
Yeah, I think a lot of our listeners are going
are identifying with those responses that you talked about. So
now your husband, James puts some interesting items on your
wedding registry. What did those teach you about having different expectations?
S1 (23:57):
Yeah, people are very different, aren't they? So they come in.
We were long distance, so I was living in Virginia
and he was living in Texas when we were engaged.
So I told him, you go to the superstore, you
take the little scanner and you get whatever you want. Great.
So I walk into the store in my city and
I print out the wedding registry, and I'm reading it
(24:17):
and I'm like, wait a minute. I had all this
camping equipment, which makes sense considering our conversation earlier. So
it had a tent and a little, little cooking thing
and a little lamp. And I'm thinking, why in the
world do we need this? You know, so I keep
reading and then I read like, bug spray, like, there's like,
wasp like things that you would spray to get rid
of wasps and ants. And then there was, a, like,
(24:41):
Advil and Tylenol and Tums, and I'm just getting sweaty
and nervous. Right? And then I can't believe it. I
think I'm I'm like, I can't believe my eyes. He
has lubricant, K-Y jelly on the list, and I am
just freaking out. And I think to myself, wait a minute. Okay. Oh,
I get it. This must be a practical joke. He
must be sending all his groomsmen to this store, and
(25:04):
he thinks this is so funny. That sounds so like James.
That's so funny. We did not have cell phones at
that time. Of course, so I call. I went home,
called him on the phone. Honey, that's so funny. I
was just at the store and I saw your registry
with the ant ant bait. And that's so funny. Like
a practical joke. And he was completely silent. And he's like,
(25:25):
what's so funny? And, like, the things you put on
the registry? That was funny. He's like, those are the
things I want for my home. I don't want a
candy dish. I don't want a set of plates. Those
are practical things I need for our first apartment. And
I'm like, what? So I could not believe Doctor Chapman
and Chris that I was the one on the defense.
(25:47):
Like I'm the one who has to defend that. You
put Toms on our wedding registry. So I tried to
think of a word picture. Right. Because that's what they
tell you, that people use a word picture. In our counseling,
we were learning this. I said, imagine you went to
the Queen and you wrapped a beautiful gift, and she
opened it and it was Windex. I was like, that
would be inappropriate, right? So. So I guess it worked
(26:10):
enough so that we took everything off the list except
the camping equipment. So I was so pleased. But it
was funny because I thought I was so right, like.
And he was so wrong. And then I realized, oh
my goodness, in his eyes, what he did was right.
Because when we did get to that apartment, there were
(26:31):
a lot of bugs in that apartment, and we could
use some Tylenol, you know. so you realize with the
expectations like, oh my goodness, I think you are so wrong,
but actually in your own eyes and in your own way,
you're right to so to to really give each other
the benefit of the doubt that okay, your expectation is valid,
(26:52):
just as mine is.
S4 (26:53):
Yeah.
S2 (26:59):
This is the building relationships with Doctor Gary Chapman podcast.
Thanks for listening and for telling others about our conversations.
When you go to five Love Languages. Com you can
find more ways to strengthen your relationships. Just click the
resources tab and you'll find the podcast there and today's
featured resource again go to five Love Languages. Com.
S4 (27:24):
Arlene, in the book you talk about various decisions. And
one of those decisions is about transferring the atmosphere of
your home from complaining to giving thanks. Why is complaining
such a danger in a marriage?
S1 (27:41):
Yeah, to give thanks every day. That decision, you know.
Think about if you have a person in your life
who is always saying, oh, it's too hot. Oh, she
was so rude. Oh, I can't believe they served me this.
This is the wrong order. Like, do you want to
be around this person? Right. Like, we're like, this is
not a pleasant person to be around. And I think
(28:05):
with strangers or with casual acquaintances, even with our friends,
we can show that common courtesy of of not complaining,
but with our spouses, you know, and even with our kids,
we can kind of let it all go loose right
at home and just be grumbling and complaining. And that
is a very unattractive person to be with and really
not very fun to be yourself to. And so what
(28:27):
can change that? What can transform that spirit of grumbling
and complaining? And let's remember the children of Israel when
they were wandering around the desert and they could not
enter the Promised Land. It wasn't for those big sins
of murder or idolatry like they made another calf or adultery.
It was. They were complaining. They had a grumbling attitude
(28:47):
that this manna isn't enough. This quail is. We didn't
really like it. We liked it the first day after that.
We didn't like it. This whole cloud by day, fire
by night, we're over it. Like, these were miraculous ways.
God was taking care of his children. And his children
were like, we we don't really like this. We. And
they grumbled, and you see that harsh consequence because it
(29:11):
was the opposite of being thankful to God. Being thankful.
Thank you for what I had. So in a marriage,
if you can transform from oh my goodness, I can't
believe you did that. You're always doing that wrong. You
always leave the toilet seat up, blah blah blah blah.
Instead of grumbling that we are thankful, I'm. I'm really
thankful you're alive. I mean, if you have to start there,
(29:34):
there are a lot of people who have lost their spouses,
or their spouses are gravely ill, and they do anything
for a spouse that walks around, you know. So for you,
just start being grateful. Turn that to God, because that's
what what God wants us to do. We know that
give thanks to God and and start giving thanks for
your marriage.
S4 (29:53):
It's amazing how much that could transform the atmosphere, isn't it?
S1 (29:57):
Yes.
S4 (29:57):
When you give thanks rather than complaining.
S1 (30:00):
Yep.
S4 (30:00):
But if you have that pattern, it. You know, you
may have to ask God to help me. Lord help me.
You know my natural tendency here. Yeah, well, another topic
you deal with is social media and how it impacts marriages.
What can a couple do to help eliminate some of
the harmful effects of social media?
S1 (30:21):
Recognizing that what you see on social media is not
real life. You know, when you looked at a magazine
or a TV show, you knew like, oh, they spent hours,
like making their house look so nice or oh, that's
like just for the camera because it's this TV show.
But now we have in our pockets social media that
shows us like our friends. And I say that kind
(30:42):
of in air quotes, like people like us, like our peers,
but it also shows us celebrities and all sorts of
people who have, you know, that's their whole job is
to make their house or their marriage look super, super
amazing and happy. And when you look at that constantly,
you'll think, well, I don't have that. I don't have
a house like that. I don't have a cute spouse
like that. I don't go to fun locales with my spouse.
(31:04):
And all of a sudden, what does this do? We're
not thankful we're comparing and we're falling short. And so
if you realize, wait a minute, this is really not
helping me in my marriage, because think of it, how
much social media helps you? Like, oh, that really supported
my marriage. You know what I mean? Like like, hopefully
they could could come and they'll see something that you create,
(31:25):
something that I create and, and hopefully that will help
them think, oh, you know, let's, let's do this thing.
But believe me, my social media following is a whole
lot tinier than most, right? So what we're normally seeing
is not supportive to your marriage. You're looking at an advertisement.
You're looking at something to buy. You're looking at someone
that you wish you had their life. And so recognize that.
(31:48):
And if that's a problem, take a fast say, hey,
you know what, for one week, I'm not going to
do any social media and just see what that does
to your mind, to your heart, to your outlook. Be open.
If you ask your spouse, hey, am I? Am I
on my phone too much? Do you feel like I'm
like scrolling through social media too much because your spouse
may say, yeah, I kind of wish you were more
(32:10):
present with me. And you'd look at me, you know,
it could be sports, it could be checking stock quotes,
it could be Netflix, it could be anything but be here,
you know, and I talk about, like when you go
on vacation, your vacation is to be together. It's not
to make a social media reel. You know, a lot
of us will get to a spot and think, oh,
this would be such a beautiful thing to post on
social media. And then the whole thing becomes making this
(32:33):
amazing thing for social media. And I say, no, take
a few pictures, put your phone in your pocket and
enjoy that for your spouse. He is your audience. She
is your audience. Not all these thousands of followers who
don't even hardly know you. So keep all these kinds
of things in mind that the real relationship of your spouse,
that's what's most important to tend and care for, not
(32:54):
your social media feed.
S4 (32:57):
Well, we know that in marriage there are hard times
and marriages are tested in the hard times. You talk
about a miscarriage you had at 26 weeks. How did
you and your husband navigate that loss?
S1 (33:10):
Yeah. You know, and I and people grieve in different ways,
you know, so I kind of wanted to talk about it.
James was maybe a little bit more quiet about it.
And there was, you know, you're at different places in it.
So one might be going further along and then one
might be taking a little bit longer. Right. So just
be sensitive to that, that you deal with difficulties in
(33:32):
different ways. Be available to each other. But I really
think that when we lost that baby, it was such
a time where God carried us. When the Lord helped
us like we'd be at church and the exact right,
you know, song would come, or someone would pray over
us and it would be exactly what we needed for
that day. So be immersed yourself with with spiritual people
(33:56):
who love you, care about you, and who can speak
truth and comfort in your life. So I think that
was a huge thing, to be able to navigate that
together and then to be able to, you know, have
I think it's that mindset that says the difficulties will
strengthen us. They won't weaken us because they can, because
(34:17):
then you've gone through this thing together and no one
else has gone through it but you, the two of you.
That's it. You know, you are the ones that were
in the eye of the storm. And if you can
be in the eye of the storm together, come out
on the other side. Boom. It just it levels up
your relationship. And I know for many, though, when that
eye of the storm hits, it's like it just throws
(34:38):
them opposite directions. Right. And that difficulty really harms them.
So I think if you can be praying together, if
you can find like, you know, like I mentioned, going
to church, you know, be be regular. Don't don't skip
going to church because you're going through a hard time.
Go to church together and and find that healing together
(34:59):
as a couple.
S4 (35:01):
Yeah. Yeah. You know, another decision you talk about is
the importance of serving your spouse. Now, I think there
are a lot of people today who have the notion that, well,
that's an old fashioned idea, serving because they have the
idea of, you know, a wife is going to, you know,
he's going to take advantage of me. All I've got
to do is serve him. But but explain that to us. What?
(35:22):
What is biblical service?
S1 (35:23):
Yeah. You look at Jesus. Right? And what do the
gospels tell us? The Son of Man came to serve.
We cannot get around it. So as much as we think,
I don't want to serve that. I want someone to
serve me, you know, or I want to be their equal. Right?
That would be more like I want to be their equal.
I don't need to serve them. They need to respect me.
But this whole idea of, you know what? I care
(35:45):
about you. And if there's something I can do to
help you, I will. So I think it is this
attitude of I will help you. It's not this attitude
of like, oh, I'm just so less than and you
can step all over me and I'm, I'm not even worthy,
you know, to bring you your water. No, that's not
that's not what I'm talking about. But it is this
idea of like, hey, I'm I'm around to make your
(36:08):
life easier. I mean, can you imagine if each spouse
that was there thought of like, hey, you know what?
I'm here today. I'm here to make your life easier.
And if you approached it that way, you need something.
How can I help you? You know my daughter, she's
a sophomore in high school. She is. You know, like
this particular day, she has to stay after school because
she has this dance recital, so she kind of is busy.
(36:30):
So in the morning I'll say, how can I help you?
Can I, you know, usually she makes her lunch herself,
all these different things, but she's got more to do
to get ready. So I say, you know, how can
I help you? So again, we do it kind of
easily with our children, but in the same. And so
does that mean she's going to walk all over me? No.
As long as she has responsibilities. No, she's going to
be like, thank you, mom. Thank you for helping me.
(36:52):
So for our spouses to have that same attitude. Oh, boy. Honey,
you have a big day at work today. How can
I help you today? You know, that's that's serving your spouse.
And that's something really beautiful and life giving. It is
not demeaning or punitive.
S4 (37:08):
You know that that question that you worded, how can
I make your life easier is one of the questions
that literally turned my marriage around. When I asked, my
wife started asking her on a regular basis, how can
I make your life easier today? You know, how can
I make your life easier? And she typically had an idea,
you know.
S1 (37:30):
She said pick up the vacuum.
S4 (37:31):
Yeah. When I did that, you know, I mean, she
she felt, you know, treasured and loved. Yeah. So yeah,
that's super important. It's a Christian lifestyle, really. You know,
because that's what love is all about. It's serving other people. Yeah. Now,
you and your husband were on the today show, which
was a dream for you. How can spouses support one
(37:54):
another's dreams?
S1 (37:56):
Yeah. I think this was such a funny situation because
I was asked for one of my books to come
on the today show, but they said you can only
come if we like your husband because we want him
to come also. So they asked, does your husband have
any videos of him that we can watch? And of course,
my husband, he's just like a normal guy. He's not
like a, you know, YouTube sensation. But he had posted
(38:19):
a YouTube video of him making kettle corn like an
instructional video of how to make kettle corn. So I
thought to myself, oh my goodness. My appearance on the
Today show is contingent upon this kettle corn video. So
it was kind of funny, but thankfully they said, oh well,
he can talk, he'll be fine. So they had him
on and I thought to myself, what a husband. Because
(38:42):
I at that time had done interviews and many of
them in the past. But this was James's first ever
media interview. He'd never been interviewed in his entire life.
And he's going on the Today Show, you know? So
it's like, go big or go home. And so I
really admired that. He was like, he didn't even hesitate. Yes,
(39:02):
I will do that. That would be great for you.
I will do that. And we practiced we put little
stools up in our house and I asked him questions
and he sat on the stool and he answered my questions.
We even set up an event at our church where
we did a little informal Q&A so that people could
ask us questions, and he could get used to giving
answers like, I mean, this is amazing. This is my
(39:23):
husband that he will like, oh, let me learn, I
will grow, I will do it, I will help you.
So having this attitude, you know of, hey, if if
this is important to you, then it's important to me too.
Now I give this this little side note though, if
it's the kind of dream that has become an obsession, right?
(39:43):
It's like everything is about this dream and the marriage
is falling apart and the kids are falling apart. And
you never sleep anymore because you're pursuing this dream. You know,
dreams should unite you as a couple, not divide you.
And if you're finding that, yeah, it's hard, but it's
actually dividing us, you know? Then it's time to talk
about it. Is this a dream that we both can
get behind to support one another? And it should be
(40:07):
something that enhances your marriage and not detracts from it.
S4 (40:11):
Yeah, yeah. Well, we talked a bit earlier about the
importance of fun in a marriage. And I know in
your book you have a long list, really, of activities
that husbands and wives can try together. And of course
we all have different interests and that sort of thing.
But could you share some of the things you and
your husband do for fun that might help the rest
(40:34):
of us?
S1 (40:34):
Yes, and you will find a very long list in
the book. That is something you're going to find, something
that you have in common. So for my husband and I,
it has been hard to find fun things because he's
much more athletic and I am not. He is very
outdoorsy and I am not, you know, so it's like,
oh my goodness, what are we going to do? So
part of the thing is having the attitude like, okay,
(40:56):
if you like it, I'll try it. So we have
done everything from rollerblading to skiing to martial arts to
dancing to ultimate frisbee, to, you know, all these different things.
And what we have kind of settled on right now.
We are in the age of dancing, so we are
going to a ballroom dance class. So we're learning how
(41:17):
to waltz and foxtrot and salsa and tango and all
this stuff. And it's very funny because the first time
we went, you know, it's this huge ballroom and there
are lessons there, but it's all, you know, people probably
age 60 and up who dance really well. Yeah. So
we got there and we do not know what we're doing.
It's as if a neon sign was over our heads, like,
(41:40):
we are new and we are terrible, you know? So
all these people came up to us and they're trying
to help us, and we're trying to imitate what they do.
I mean, I thought for sure that first lesson, I'm like,
we are never coming back here. Like, we are really
bad at this. But you know what? We kept going.
And we're a year in and we're actually decent where
(42:01):
we can get around the floor now. And we figured
it's something we can do together. It's something it is fun.
Like we both think it's fun. And then we realize
as we get older, like, you can keep doing this.
So for us right now, it's dancing. We play ultimate
Frisbee with our kids, which is kind of like soccer
with the Frisbee. So a lot of running and you're
scoring goals and we started that during Covid, playing every
(42:24):
Sunday afternoon. And believe it or not, since 2020 till
today we are still playing every afternoon and with other
families and people and it's it's we never want to
go by. We I mean, Lucy and I, we my
daughter and I, we are like, oh, we have to
go again. We're so lazy. We don't want to go.
But every time we go, we have a lot of fun.
(42:45):
So sometimes with the fun, you kind of drag your
feet on it. Like, I don't want to go do that.
A lot of effort. But after it's over, you're like,
that was hilarious. That was really fun. So those are
a few of the fun things we do.
S4 (42:57):
Well, I think that long list that you have in
the book is going to be helpful to some people,
because there's some who are hearing the things you and
James have done and say, oh, I could never do that.
You know.
S1 (43:06):
I don't want to do that. Yeah, there are much
more quieter things to do too.
S4 (43:10):
Yeah, but the but the list covers a lot of
personality types. I think that people will find those to
be helpful. Now, you and your husband, James, have been
married now for 26 years. And you say that of
all ages, at all ages in a marriage, people should
be preparing for the golden years. So, uh, how how
(43:31):
do you and how do you prepare for the golden years?
And what are you all doing?
S1 (43:36):
Yeah, we're so short term sometimes. Right? We just think, like,
how can I get through the day without realizing, hey,
the habits I have today that affects the quality of
my life tomorrow. You know, and when we think of
these senior years, golden years, you know, now, James and
I are in our 50s. So now it's not as
we used to think, that 55 plus thing where they
were really old people. Now we're like, oh no, those
(43:57):
people are not old at all. Those are very young people.
So how can we prepare for those things? And part
of it is liking each other, right. So that when
your kids leave and your empty nesters, you still like
one another. Well, how do you do that? How what
what made you like them in the first place? You
had fun together. You cared about each other. You had conversations.
(44:18):
You had novel experiences. So some of the things you
can do to prepare now for those golden years is
keep being together like, you know, decide. Obviously, I'm going
to stay married, but then really keep showing up. Go
to the date nights, you know, make that a priority.
Try novel experiences whether it's you know, that we it
(44:39):
doesn't have to be an athletic pursuit. It could be
a cooking class. You know, try a novel experience together
so that you're used to growing and learning so that
when you're in your later years, you still have that
rhythm that you can keep learning and growing that that
would be fun. You know, they, uh, they talked about
in a book about how What makes a Happy Retiree
(45:01):
by Wes Moss and they talked about the happy retirees
have 3.6 core pursuits together. So in other words, they
have about 3 or 4 activities they like to do
together that could be taking grandkids out, playing chess, you know,
going on vacation to a, you know, to Hawaii. You know,
(45:21):
so they. But there are things they like to do together.
So if that's what makes us happy in the golden years,
why not have a little practice now, right? So? So
do those things together. So that when it comes time,
you're used to doing those things.
S4 (45:34):
You know, the big thing now with a lot of
our friends is pickleball.
S1 (45:37):
That's right. Yes, exactly. Have you given it a try,
Doctor Chapman?
S4 (45:42):
I have not given it a try. No, I have
to be honest, I have not. But so many of
our friends have. And of course, some of our friends
have also gotten injured in pickleball.
S1 (45:53):
It comes at a bit of a cost.
S4 (45:54):
You're right. Well, Arlene, this has been fun chatting with
you again. Of course, I've always enjoyed being with you
and James and your family and interfacing with them along
the way. And the books you and I have written together. Uh,
I've always enjoyed doing that, but. So good to have
you with us today, and thanks for writing this book
that really focuses on marriage. And I think whether couples
(46:15):
are dating and thinking about marriage, this book would be
a good book to work through together, or whether you've
been married for a while. Either way, I think it's
going to be helpful. So again, thanks for being with
us today.
S1 (46:26):
Thank you so much. It's been so fun.
S3 (46:29):
And if you go to Building relationships you will see
our featured resource today, the book Making Marriage Easier How
to Love and Like Your Spouse for life. It's written
by our guest today, Arlene Pelikan. Just go to Building
Relationships to find out more. And coming up next week,
our summer best of programs continue with the practical broadcast
(46:52):
on reducing stress in your life. Don't miss it.
S2 (46:56):
Well, a big thank you to our production team, Steve
Wick and Janice. Backing building relationships with Doctor Gary Chapman
is a production of Moody Radio in Chicago, in association
with Moody Publishers. Thanks for listening.
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