May 24, 2025 • 49 mins
How do you enjoy a vibrant marriage to a member of the military? On this Building Relationships with Dr. Gary Chapman, author and seasoned military spouse, Ashley Ashcraft, talks about the combat deployments, solo parenting, post-traumatic effects of war, and much more. What are the challenges and joys of maintaining a strong marriage to a military spouse? Hear encouragement on Building Relationships with Dr. Gary Chapman.
Featured resource: Mission-Ready Marriage: A Christian Guide to Discovering Hope and Purpose as a Military Wife
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S1 (00:01):
The struggles and triumphs of military marriages today. On building
relationships with Doctor Gary Chapman.
S2 (00:08):
You do have to take a back seat. A lot
of times as a military spouse, you're told where to
go and when to go, and your heart has to
be primed to follow, hopefully with loving service.
S3 (00:21):
That calling is a spouse. You're entering a mission field
and as a service member, and I think that's an
area that is ripe for believers and just a calling
out of what that could bring to marriages. Certainly in
the military and many marriages that are second or third
marriages as well.
S1 (00:44):
Welcome to building relationships with Doctor Gary Chapman, author of
the New York Times best seller The Five Love Languages. Today,
through multiple combat deployments, frequent sole parenting, post-traumatic stress, and
12 moves, Ashley realized she needed a plan to survive
her military marriage to her husband, Tim.
S4 (01:03):
And that plan is our featured resource today at Building Relationships.
It's titled Mission Ready Marriage A Christian Guide to Discovering
Hope and purpose as a military wife. Again, go to
building relationships. And with Memorial Day coming up this Monday,
I think this is the perfect time to talk about
(01:24):
military marriages and some of the struggles they face. Gary,
through the years, you've spoken into the lives of those
who serve our country, and it's not just the person
in uniform that serves. It's really the whole family, isn't it?
S5 (01:38):
Well, it is, Chris, no question about it, because every
family member is impacted by military lifestyle, which is very
different from the lifestyle that non-military people live. So. And
as you know, I've been very, very interested and concerned
with military couples. Wrote a special edition you remember of
the five love languages for military couples trying to face
(02:00):
some of those things. So I am really excited about
our conversation today and excited about this book. I think
it's going to be very helpful to our listeners.
S4 (02:07):
I do too. Let's meet our guests first. Ashley Ashcraft
is a nationally recognized educator, military wife, down syndrome advocate,
and homeschool mom. She's also a contributing writer for Military
Spouse magazine. Her husband, Tim Ashcraft, is a career Army
aviation officer and recipient of the Distinguished Flying Cross for
(02:28):
his actions in Afghanistan as an ah 64 Apache helicopter pilot.
He holds two masters, one in aerospace engineering, one in
military studies, served as an assistant professor in the Civil
and Mechanical Engineering department at West Point. Tim and Ashley
have been married for more than 15 years. They have
four children and are featured. Resource is the book Mission
(02:50):
Ready Marriage. You'll find out more at Building Relationships.
S5 (02:55):
Well, Ashley and Tim, Welcome to Building Relationships.
S2 (02:58):
Thank you, Doctor Chapman. It is a huge honor and
blessing to be with you today. You have been a
pivotal part of our marriage, because the five love languages
is something that we hold very dear to our marriage
and constantly remind ourselves of how to love the other.
So thank you for your work and as you mentioned,
your specific book for those who are married in the military.
S5 (03:23):
Well, I'm excited about your book that you're having you
and Tim on the program today. You know, we like
to hear love stories on this program. So, Ashley, start
us off. How did you meet Tim and how did
you know that he was the one for you?
S2 (03:38):
We met in our freshman English class in high school,
and we became dear friends, and we tried to date
a few times, but more than that, we were friends
for about eight years and this was before the time
of text messaging, so we constantly pass each other notes
in between classes and we would always address them from
(04:01):
famous characters. So two Prince Charming from Cinderella. And that's
how our love story started out. And then it was
our senior year in college, when I visited him up
at West Point on a trip over Easter where I
truly felt like I wanted to, that I knew I
(04:21):
wanted to dedicate the rest of my life to loving
this man and calling him my husband.
S5 (04:27):
Okay, Taylor, it's your turn. What was it like for you?
S3 (04:31):
I'll never forget when Ashley walked into Mrs. Hughes freshman
English class. And I was assuming we were dating all
those eight years, but. No, but we became very good friends.
And even through long distance. Um, and that's what really
cemented it. Of course, I fell more and more in
love with her through the years. But what what was
(04:53):
incredible to me was when she decided to move to
a small town in Alabama while I was finishing up
flight school, get a place of her own. And I
hadn't even proposed yet. And I thought, wow, I better
get serious because she's she's all in and I will
never forget that commitment early on.
S5 (05:11):
All right. Well, you know, all of us have a
story and it's amazing how God leads us together. Some
early in life, as with the two of you. Well, actually,
did you know what you were signing up for when
you married a military man?
S2 (05:26):
I had absolutely no clue. Which seems to be the
consensus in our community. I had two family members who
had served in the military before I was born, but
it wasn't something that was discussed or talked about as
I grew up. So other than knowing we would move
frequently and there would be deployments, I had no understanding
(05:50):
of what this life would actually entail as a military spouse?
S5 (05:54):
Yeah, most of us have no idea our little idea
of what marriage is going to be like, even if
we're not in the military.
S2 (06:01):
Amen.
S5 (06:03):
Well, Tim, uh, did you have any idea of the
adjustments in all that Ashley and later your family would
have to make?
S3 (06:11):
No idea. I really think there's a beautiful illustration in
Ashley's book about a spouse's oath of office. You know,
in the military, you take an oath of office and
any public service. And she has this beautiful illustration of
how there should be almost at the altar or when
you join up a spouse's oath of office, because they
(06:34):
really take on not just your oath, but the whole
family and providing for the family. So I, I had
no idea hardly what I was getting into and let
alone Ashley.
S5 (06:48):
Yeah. Ashley. What are some of the challenges, just in
a general sense, that military families face, that the general
public doesn't understand?
S2 (06:58):
I think one of the most important things for the
community to understand is that the military has the highest
divorce rate of any profession on the planet, so we
are in desperate need of support in our marriages. Also, 25%
of military families struggle with food insecurity, and this is
(07:18):
because of the low wages that they earn early on,
but also because of financial guidance that is really lacking
in the military community. And lastly, the military spouse unemployment
rate is five times the national average. So because we
(07:39):
move so frequently, it's challenging to transfer our licenses and
repeat tests and find jobs that fit our niche everywhere
that we go. So if there's not an unemployment rate,
then oftentimes we are underemployed as well.
S5 (07:57):
I think you're right on those things, and I think
very few civilians understand some of those things and perhaps
would not even have thought about those things.
S4 (08:07):
Tim, as as a person in the military, it must
break your heart to see marriages around you doing what
they're doing and those who are in the service.
S3 (08:18):
It really does. And it is a mission field for believers.
You cry out for those that are believers and struggling,
but those that don't even have a faith. I so
admire the the Chaplain Corps and the work they do,
but not just their work as a mission field. Ashley
(08:38):
talks in her book how that calling is a spouse.
You're entering a mission field and as a service member. Um,
and I think that's an area that is ripe for
believers and for just a calling out of what that
could bring to marriages, certainly in the military and many
marriages that are second or third marriages as well.
S5 (09:00):
Well, Tim, if you were talking to a young man
or a group of young men or women for that matter,
about joining the military, what would you say to them
in their consideration of the process of going into the military?
S3 (09:14):
I would say that there is a jersey for you,
and I'm I'm stealing that from my boss, who gave
a beautiful speech on if you want to be a veterinarian,
an artist, an astronaut, a pilot, a tanker, there is
a jersey for you. And a lot of people just
don't know the careers that they can take on. There's
(09:35):
incredible stories of people who have enlisted, who come from
the most humble beginnings, and go on to be general
officers or to serve distinguished careers twice over in the military,
and I would encourage them to really look into what
they want to be as a as a professional, as
(09:55):
a person, and how the military can complement that. And
when you couple those together, you have some of the
most incredible experiences you couldn't even ever imagine, while also
having a sense of service and and a calling to
something beyond yourself.
S5 (10:12):
Yeah, I think the plus side of military life is
often not emphasized among civilians, but there are a lot
of positive things there. I'm just thinking about children, for example,
and what exposure they have to various places, living various
places and all of that sort of thing. Yeah, so
(10:33):
I would certainly encourage young, young men who have any
interest at all, or young women for that matter, if
that's their interest to seriously consider military service. So actually, Ashley,
you mentioned some of the difficulties military families go through.
What was the most difficult for you and how did
you cope with it?
S2 (10:54):
By far the most difficult thing that we've been through
was Tim's first deployment. And true to military life, we
missed our first wedding anniversary together. He deployed the month
prior and two months into his deployment. I got a
phone call from him. And I knew something was wrong
(11:14):
right away and learned that earlier that morning he had
been shot down. And it was the night of power.
And extremists believed that on the night of power, if
they kill the enemy, then they will be rewarded by
Allah a thousand fold. And so, just as him and
his co-pilot were landing, they noticed that there were about
(11:38):
50 insurgents dressed in stolen US military uniforms breaching the wire.
And so they lifted back up but weren't able to
get to a high enough level for safety. And their
helicopter took 15 rounds. And by the grace of God,
they survived. But you don't come home from a deployment
(12:01):
like that without trauma. Well, trauma changes the brain, and
neither of us were equipped for what reintegration would look
like after he came home from that deployment. I think
there is a romanticized idea of what that's going to
look like. But he lost close friends over there and
(12:24):
he experienced traumatic events. And shortly after he returned home,
within just weeks, we moved to a new town. That
was a huge challenge in our marriage, figuring out how
to love and serve each other well in the midst
of trying to process everything that had just happened in
(12:46):
the last year and being ill equipped to do so.
S5 (12:49):
Yeah. Tim. Tim. What was that like for you? Just
just a few words from when you went through that
traumatic experience.
S3 (12:58):
The scenario that Ashley described, it was one an incredible
affirmation of my faith. I had never felt that peace
that surpasses all understanding more than I did in that
moment when we were fairly convinced that was it would
be going down in hostile territory. And I just felt
God's presence and by his grace. And but coming home,
(13:22):
despite the reintegration training that is given for the service
member and the spouse and the family, there was an
aspect of pride for me, and maybe arrogance too, of
oh no, I could go through that and I wouldn't
bring any of that home. But it really took Ashley
sitting me down and saying, no, you. You're different and
I love you and I just need you to acknowledge that.
(13:44):
So it was almost the that denial initially that had
to be gracefully presented by my, my wife, um, to
overcome that pride and start working through it.
S5 (13:57):
I don't think those of us who have never been
through that type of experience can imagine that. But the
positive thing for Christians, which you've shared, is the presence
of God in the midst of that of that trauma. Wow. Well, Tim,
it must have also been difficult for you to have
to deploy again and again and leave your family, or
(14:18):
be the reason why they had to move again. Uh,
what was that like for you?
S3 (14:23):
You know, I think it was a challenge I didn't
think about when signing up for the military. And I
don't know that at 17 years old, I had the
capacity to comprehend One. Starting a family in the military,
two having my wife move while deployed, and three raising
(14:47):
kids in that environment as well. So I not necessarily
expect a young teenager to think through that, but I
would encourage anyone at any stage to get involved in
their church, to get involved in a in a small group,
in their community, because we lean so heavily on those
(15:08):
around us and really lifted us up. And despite Ashley's strength,
really held up our our marriage and figurative and literal
way as well.
S5 (15:18):
You know, I remember once being at Fort Bragg, uh,
and I was speaking to the spouses and in Afghanistan,
they had a hookup where the spouses could actually hear
me at the same time. And then afterwards, later, another
time I was there. Carolyn and I were there when
(15:38):
the the troops were coming back and we watched, you know,
these spouses greeting them for the first time after they
came back and all and and it brought tears to
our eyes just just realizing, you know, what? What they
had gone through. Actually talk to young women who are
in love and they think things will work out fine,
(16:00):
and they're going to marry a military spouse, and they
don't see that as a big deal. What would you
say to them to perhaps help them prepare for this?
S2 (16:11):
I would say first that I understand you're so in love,
and it's hard to see beyond that. But I think
it's essential to prepare your heart for the mission work
that you're about to do. So the Lord determines our boundaries.
It says in acts 1726. And another one of the
(16:31):
positives about the military is that you get to travel
all around the country or the world, and God is
sending you out to do this mission work. But we
can't take that lightly, and we really have to prepare
our hearts in prayer to not fall into a trap
of bitterness and resentment, but to see this as the
(16:52):
Lord's work and to ask for his guidance. And I
think it would be imperative for a young woman to
ask for a mentor. Maybe that's somebody in her church
or at her fiance's local installation, but find someone who
has walked this path before you and that loves Jesus
(17:14):
more than anything, and have her hold your hand through
this and help prepare you. Because I think, as Tim
has alluded to, community has been essential for us, and
having those other Christ like brothers and sisters come alongside
us is really important to this process.
S5 (17:31):
Yeah, I really like the emphasis you have in the
book of this being a mission. You know, as Christians,
we're on mission. And I'm thinking in terms of missionaries
that we send out to other countries and churches, you know,
will adopt missionaries. They will have people praying for them
all the time. And really, it would be great if
we could have that kind of program for any military
(17:53):
couple that's in a Christian church, that they would have
couples at home praying for them. You know, like we
pray for our missionaries. So I really I really like
that emphasis. And but of course, you're emphasizing also not
only people at home praying for you, but also involve
yourself in chapels and churches wherever you go so that
(18:14):
you're you're walking this journey with other individuals.
S2 (18:18):
Absolutely. And I, I appreciate you mentioning that. And I
think if there are any church leaders that are listening
to this, that I would highly encourage them to pray
about seeing their those in their congregation that are in
the military as their missionaries and looking at how they
could support them through prayer or even financially as as
(18:39):
you mentioned.
S5 (18:40):
Yeah. Tim, would it be fair to say you felt
called to the military? Now, you went in very young,
but did you have a sense that God was calling
you into the military?
S3 (18:52):
So I had a romantic idea about the military. My
my grandfather was in World War two and commissioned into
the horse cavalry of all things. And then they mechanized
things and served in the war and came back. And
it was a great example to me, but I hadn't
really seriously considered it until I was looking at where
to go to school. So West Point to me, after
(19:14):
looking at all the academies, you get an Ivy League education.
You you can play army, you can go into the
you commission into the army. After that had first engineering
school in America. It was just all of the things
that that I was attracted to, but I didn't understand
the long, longer term commitment beyond your initial obligation. And
(19:38):
we were juniors in high school when nine over 11 happened.
So there was very much a sense of wanting to
serve and re-energizing the entire base in America of patriotism
and and really felt called to that. But even while
I was in school there, we thought the war would
be quickly over, much like the first Gulf War. So
I think it was a little bit of both. I
think that while I was in school, I really was.
(20:03):
It affirmed my reason for going and wanting to go
into the Army and out of the gate. I think
I was just a little too young to to understand
the long term commitment.
S5 (20:14):
Yeah. Ashley, you think it's important that wives of military
I'm talking about Christians now, uh, have that same sense of,
you know, being called with with that military person to
this particular mission.
S2 (20:29):
I think definitely taking this commitment to God and asking
him to prepare their hearts and to lead them and
to guide them. You know, I don't think it's an
accident when a military, when a woman falls in love
with a military man and that as you're speaking specifically
(20:49):
to Christians, I would just ask that or suggest that
she really pray about this and and search the scriptures
and see if she feels like she can support her
husband's service, because you do have to take a back seat.
A lot of times as a military spouse and you
(21:09):
don't often get a lot of choice, you're told where
to go and when to go, and your heart has
to be primed to to follow. Um, hopefully with loving service.
S5 (21:22):
Now, we hear a lot today, not only in the military,
even outside the military of loneliness. But I think being
in the military and for a spouse and often when
the when the husband or the other wife, only either
one is deployed and the other is left at home,
(21:42):
there has to be a sense of loneliness associated with
all of this. Speak to that in terms of your
own experience.
S2 (21:49):
I think that's one of the biggest hindrances that our
military spouse community faces is loneliness. And coupled with that
anxiety and depression and we're we move so often and
depending on your personality style, it can be really hard
to get out there and meet new people. It's not
likely that people are just going to show up at
(22:10):
your door and invite them into our lives, but that's
one thing that I have learned is to be that person.
Even when we've moved after 12 times, it gets a
little bit exhausting to start relationships again, but you never
know how long you're going to be there and the
friends and neighbors around you essentially need to become your
community for you to thrive. And so we've really learned
(22:32):
to just show up at all the doors around us
and jump into the churches and jump into serving and
find out ways that we can connect on our installations
has really been an imperative process. And the one thing
where I believe that God can use loneliness that we
experience happened for us. An example, when we were at
(22:54):
Fort Rucker, Alabama, and we went for a short course
so we weren't there long enough for me to teach,
which was my profession at the time. And so I
had to stay home and just felt very lonely. Not
having friends, not having community, not having family. Our church
at that time had challenged us to read the Bible
in 90 days, and without my having any work, I
(23:17):
was able to accept that challenge. And so I spent
those 90 days for the first time reading through the
entire Bible. I didn't always understand what I was reading,
but with the Holy Spirit's guidance, I was able to
get through that. And I think God really used that
time to draw me intimately close to him. And that's
really where my relationship with him caught fire. And so
(23:39):
I think there is a benefit to the quiet spaces
that are sometimes created for us as we move. But
along with that, I was also involved with our church,
so it's important to have that community as well.
S5 (23:52):
Yeah, I think utilizing that time when you are alone
more than at other times can be very, very profitable.
S1 (24:06):
This is the building relationships with Doctor Gary Chapman podcast.
For more simple ways to strengthen your relationships, go to
five Love Languages. Com our featured resource today is the
book by Ashley Ashcraft titled Mission Ready Marriage A Christian
Guide to Discovering Hope and purpose as a military wife.
Find out more at Five Love languages.com.
S4 (24:29):
I just want to say a word about Lieutenant Colonel
Ashcraft because I. I texted my brother, who is a
West Point grad, and said, hey, I got another West
Point grad coming on, and he sent me. You guys
at West Point know each other everything. He knows your
shoe size. He knows everything that you've done. And also,
(24:50):
I was interested when you were when you graduated high
school in Arizona, you were had honors, southern Arizona honors.
In football, you were a recipient of several awards. You
excelled in fine arts. So not only can you get
in a helicopter and go fly it over there, you
can sing a song and dance across the stage. And
(25:12):
now I understand why I actually was drawn to you, Tim.
S6 (25:16):
He was definitely the All-American.
S3 (25:19):
I'm sure my unit will have fun with that, sir, But.
S6 (25:23):
I.
S3 (25:24):
Will say there, there is. I'm so grateful for the
upbringing that I had. And serving on a worship arts
team in a chapel in Afghanistan was one of the
most special experiences I'll have. And doing an Easter sunrise
service in a in a country that is so beautiful,
yet has been war torn for so many years. It
(25:45):
was something else. And the bond that we have with those,
those folks will never be broken.
S4 (25:51):
Yeah. Keyboard and drums. Gary. So we can ask Tim
to do just about anything. But you know what he is?
He is a cheerleader for Ashley's book because he really
believes in this. And, uh, one other question, and then
I'll get it back. Give it back to you, Gary.
And that is the Distinguished Flying Cross. Not everybody gets that,
(26:11):
nor the Bronze Star. So when I see this picture
of you with all of these medals there, what goes
through your mind, Tim? When when you get to where
these things that have been given to you.
S3 (26:27):
Well thank you. It's very humbling. It is humbling to
think about those who served before and will continue to.
And I will say there's an immense sense of pride
in each of those awards and ribbons. Every, every one
of them has a story, but something that in the
military edition that Doctor Chapman talks about, there's an illustration
(26:50):
of a couple where the husband says, I would give
it all away because his marriage was falling apart. And
I would say that none of that would ever have
been possible without Ashley's support. And in that scenario that
that earned us the crew, the Distinguished Flying Cross. Ashley
wanted to know every detail and wanted to support me through,
(27:14):
you know, healing process and and everything else experienced through deployment. Redeployment.
And I would say I would. I would give it
all away if I had to. Thankfully, as as Doctor
Chapman alludes to in his book, you can have a
successful marriage and career as well, and through faith, I
believe is key. As an illustration, those metals are held
(27:36):
on in the back by a little pin. You know,
if there's anything that's held me through a military career,
it's it's Ashley. Um, and her, her rock solid faith
and foundation for our family. And, um, so that's a,
I guess, a bit of a metaphor, but that's what
I think of.
S5 (27:56):
I think we ought to have a little song and
celebration for you, Ashley. Right now. Okay.
S6 (28:01):
Hit it. Tim. One.
S3 (28:04):
Two. Three.
S5 (28:07):
All right, well, let's change the subject a bit here. Ashley. Uh,
you polled a lot of military wives, and you saw
a need in an area that you really hadn't planned
to address in this book. Talk about that.
S2 (28:20):
Yes, I was very surprised. I had outlined all the
chapters in my book and thought I had every subject
in there that needed to be addressed. But over and over,
as I talked to military spouses, one of the primary
concerns was their family of origin and their extended families
not understanding the depths of the sacrifice and really placing
(28:42):
a lot of blame and shame on our families. For example,
it's not easy for us to travel home for Christmas.
One of the reasons, of course, is financial. You know,
for my family to get across the country for Christmas
last year, if we would have gone, it would have
cost us $5,000. And that's very challenging. And but they
(29:04):
also don't understand often that some of our husbands are
on a deployment call where they have to be ready
to go in two hours, and so we can't plan
trips to go home. Often when our husbands are unable
to travel. Just understanding too that sometimes, most of the
(29:24):
time our vacations are home to our family of origin
and our extended families. But sometimes we need that time
to our immediate family ourselves, to create new memories and
to recoup. Because even if our spouse isn't deployed or
out training in the field, which feels like most of
the time their hours are really insane. And so we
(29:47):
hardly have any time together as a family. And so
it's also important for us to just have that time
with our immediate family and for our extended families to
understand that that's not anything against them. We just need
to cultivate our family bond as well. And so there's
a whole list of ways that we can help communicate
(30:07):
with our families back home, to help them understand ways
that they can support us. And as Tim has mentioned,
our families have. We've been very blessed to our families
have showed up every time that we have moved. They
have helped watch our kids, helped load the truck, have
helped pack the dishes. They welcome us home and create
(30:28):
beautiful environments for us to be home and create fun memories.
And and they really do understand that when we can't
come home, it's not personal.
S5 (30:39):
Yeah. Yeah. You're alluded to this, but talk about the
financial struggles of military couples. Why do so many have
difficulty in this area and what can be done to help?
S6 (30:51):
I think we could say.
S2 (30:53):
That generally across the board, people are struggling, not in education.
That unfortunately is being passed down in families or in school.
And but in the military specifically, it's a huge challenge.
And if you look at the statistics, it's near 8,090%
of us are in debt and at a very high number.
(31:14):
And so thankfully, one of the things that our family
has been blessed by is Financial Peace University by Dave Ramsey.
And they actually offer their Financial Peace University course for
free for active duty members. And so that's Tim and
I did that when we were engaged, and we followed
their program our entire marriage. And it has been a
(31:36):
huge blessing to our family.
S5 (31:38):
Yeah. Yeah. I hope that many military couples who don't
know about that will search that out, because that's certainly
good training. Well, let's talk about military kids. What have
you learned about helping kids? Going through a lot of
transitions in life?
S2 (31:53):
Our kids, when we moved to this house, had lived
in as many houses as they were old. So our
eight year old had just moved into her eighth house.
Our six year old moved into his sixth house, and
our four year old at that time had moved into
her fourth house. And so transition is all they know.
Saying goodbye to their friends, meeting new friends, leaving their homes,
(32:14):
finding new homes. And it's just been a challenge. So
one of our kids I talk about in the book
has been diagnosed with a transition disorder, and that is
common in our community. Um, a lot of it comes
with anxiety and depression, but we also try and create
a lot of fun with it too. When we move,
we try and find fun places along the route. When
(32:37):
dad is deployed or in training, the little ones that
still think it's fun to sleep in bed with mom.
They can hop in bed and sleep with me, or
we make silly dinners like waffles and pancakes that I
wouldn't make for dinner when Tim is home. And so
we've tried to create fun experiences amidst the challenges. But also,
I think the most imperative part for our military kids
(32:59):
is to know that they too, are on mission, that
they are never too young to love others, to serve others,
to share the gospel message. And that can be very
practical things we try and get our kids involved in.
For example, if we have a neighbour who is deployed,
then our kids can help bring the trash up, or
they can help us babysit their kids so that the
(33:22):
mom can get a break. Or when we have new
neighbors move in, we can invite them over for s'mores
in the backyard, or bring some flowers. And just real
practical ways to teach our kids that the Lord has
placed them at each military installation on purpose, um, for
them to serve and love.
S5 (33:41):
I think that whole theme of service, which is at
the heart of what the Christian lifestyle is all about,
if if non-military couples can teach their children to thank
military couples, you know, and for what they're doing. I
was just walking through an airport some time ago and
there were about five, I think 5 or 6 military
(34:04):
people there dressed in military garb. And this family was
walking by. And this young boy, I'm guessing he was
six years old. He looked up to these military people
and he said, thank you for protecting us. And I thought, man,
those parents are doing a great job at that age
that he has that concept. You know, that they're there
(34:26):
serving us. So yeah. So whether you're in the military
or out of military, if you're a Christian, service is
a theme of our lifestyle. Now, Tim and Ashley, with
your fourth child, you got some surprising news. Tell us
what happened.
S2 (34:43):
When we had our fourth baby, Tim wanted to have
a gender reveal party because those weren't popular when we
had our first three kids. So he wanted to shoot
off some confetti and find out what the gender of
our baby was. And at our OB that we were at,
they said the way they did that was through blood work.
And so when I received a phone call from my
(35:03):
OB office, I simply anticipated them saying that I would
be picking up a card at the front office, that
it was available with the gender. But the lady informed
me that, in fact, my blood work showed that there
was a nine out of ten chance that our baby
would have down syndrome, and unfortunately, there was no support
(35:23):
offered on that phone call. And I was completely ignorant
about down syndrome. So I was an absolute wreck with
that news. Uh, called Tim right away at work. He
rushed home to comfort me and explained to me the
truth that I knew in my heart, but that my
head just couldn't wrap itself around, was that the Lord
(35:44):
would be blessing us with this child, and he would
use this baby for for his kingdom purposes. And while
I was in the middle of writing this book, she
was born nine weeks early with two holes in her heart,
weighing just £2 and 12oz. And we lived in the
Ronald McDonald House for three months while she was in
(36:05):
the hospital. It was a complete surprise to us. Um,
nothing we would have planned for, but it has been
the biggest blessing in our life and brought the most
joy to our family. Amidst the challenges, um, God knows
what he's doing for our families. You know, when he
sends these surprises.
S5 (36:24):
How old is she now?
S2 (36:26):
She is 21 months now.
S5 (36:29):
Oh, Tim, what was your, uh, thoughts and feelings and
emotions during that time?
S3 (36:37):
You know, I think as we talked about earlier, God's
presence is always there and shows up when you need
it most. And I was in the busiest job I've
ever had when Ashley texted me and said, I need
you to call me right away. And that was always
you can tell right when you need to stop what
you're doing, regardless of how important you think it is.
(36:58):
And I called her and she was, um, I guess
hysterical in the sense of the word I was concerned
that she had lost the baby, and when she told
me it was a diagnosis for down syndrome. It was
almost a sense of relief because what came out was,
it'll be okay. And I don't know that I, without
(37:21):
God's presence, would have been able to say that otherwise. Um,
the weight of carrying a child and going through delivery,
I believe, is so much more on the mother. But when,
as the husband and the father, the other kids, you
realize that your wife is in such a vulnerable state
(37:46):
with a child with special needs, it really awakens you.
And I will say that it was God's way of
really shaking me and reprioritizing what's important. So God had
a at a different way of using that towards me,
But I will emphasize what Ashley said, that it has
been a blessing that we could never have imagined, despite
(38:11):
its challenges.
S5 (38:12):
Yeah, I think any parent who's listening who has a
special needs child, can certainly identify with everything that both
of you are saying. Ashley, in every chapter in your book,
you end with a section called Modeling Jesus. Why do
you think that's an essential ingredient for a successful marriage?
(38:34):
And how have you seen that play out in your
own marriage?
S2 (38:39):
I think it is the most essential thing for us
to do is to model Jesus in our marriages. And
far beyond that, you know, in our communities and our
parenting everything. But where that I really learned that lesson
came when we were stationed in Fort Leavenworth, Kansas. And
it had been a decade of me just feeling bitterness
(39:01):
and resentful for all the sacrifices that I had had
to make at a as a military spouse. And I
just reached a point where I was tired of myself
and I didn't want to feel that way anymore. And
so I decided lent was approaching, and I decided to
fast from being a bitter wife for 40 days. And
(39:22):
in that place I decided to create 40 challenges. So
for 40 days I loved him extravagantly and selflessly, even
if I didn't feel like it. Um, just to really
try and model Jesus. And we both agree that those
40 days were the best 40 days that we've had
(39:43):
in 15 years of marriage, and Tim didn't want it
to end when it was over. So he in turn
created a 40 day challenge for me. And that's where
I think we both really learned practically kind of boots
on the ground. What does it look like to model
Jesus in your marriage? And then we saw the benefits
of that.
S5 (40:04):
Yeah. If a husband and a wife can both have
the attitude of Christ, who said I didn't come to
be served? I came to serve. Are they going to
be on a road to a healthy marriage, whether you're
in the military or out of the military? Absolutely. Well,
talk to the couple going through some very real and
(40:26):
difficult times in their military marriage. Uh, what advice would
either of you, uh, give to them?
S2 (40:34):
I would first say, I see you. You know, we've
been through multiple deployments. We have lost all of our
belongings in a housing situation. We have lost babies and
trying to create a marriage and sustain a marriage. Cultivate
(40:56):
a marriage amidst that is very challenging, and I would
say that you can't do it alone. So if both parties, um,
will just invest into Christ, into the church, I think
that that's really imperative to help you through that. For us,
counseling has been a significant part of our healing journey
(41:19):
and finding a biblically and clinically informed therapist to help
you process everything and continue to grow together. And I
also think being around other brothers and sisters in Christ
as a couple together is really important. Um, having people
over for your from church together or being a part
of a Bible study together so you can see what
(41:41):
it looks like when other men and women who love
Jesus are trying to love their spouses.
S5 (41:47):
Yeah. Jim, would you add anything to that?
S3 (41:50):
I would, I, I would say that in the hardest
of times, one of your chapters really was striking for
me in Five Love Languages, and I think it Ashley's
book is almost a book on that chapter, and it's
love is a choice and modeling Jesus. Jesus chose to
love people that did not love him back. And Ashley's
(42:13):
book takes that concept into practical application for couples that
are in a really hard place where the easy choice
is to give up, and the cadet prayer says choose
the harder right over, the easier wrong, I think. Which
segues into another theme of loving the unlovely. Ashley has
(42:35):
had to love the unlovely more times than I can remember,
and fortunately for me, I. Ashley's lovely, so I've never
had to reciprocate. And I mean that sincerely. But through
this military life and just through marriage, any couple going
through a battlefield, right. Choosing to love the unlovely and
(42:56):
making that choice to love with grace and mercy like
Jesus did.
S5 (43:00):
Yeah, well, actually, writing was always a dream of yours.
And I assume that with your children and all the
kind of things we've been talking about that you've gone through,
you must have had to put that idea on the
shelf for a while. Uh, talk to those people who
maybe have a dream. It may not be writing, but
they have a dream, but they can't see a way
(43:22):
to achieve it. What would you say to them?
S2 (43:26):
I love how God puts dreams in our hearts. Even
from childhood, I'd always wanted to write ever since I
was a little girl, and I think just being in
constant prayer with God about that dream and asking him
to open and close the doors to make that dream happen,
if that's his will. Also, there's been seasons where I definitely,
(43:47):
you know, with three kids under five, earlier on in
our marriage, there was no way I could write a book.
But there were simple ways I could cultivate the craft
by writing a blog while the kids were napping, or
taking a course online while they were sleeping at night.
Just little things that that you can, um, continue to
learn in whatever that dream is that you're trying to achieve.
(44:10):
And then I would also say to connect with others
in the area that are pursuing that same dream that
you want to achieve, whether that's, you know, if you
really want to excel as a homeschool mom, connecting with
other moms who love Jesus that are homeschooling and, um,
just whatever that craft is, I would say just, yeah,
(44:30):
be in prayer, cultivate it in the moments when you can,
and then just leave it up to God for him
to create the opportunities, um, if that's his will for you.
S5 (44:40):
Well, lastly, as we come toward the end of our
time together today, we haven't talked a lot about PTSD. Uh,
can you address the stress on a family and the
returning soldier. Who's going through that?
S2 (44:54):
Yeah, absolutely. And I'd love to hear Tim's perspective on this, too.
But PTSD is something that we are so intimately familiar
with in our community. One of my best friends lost
her husband to suicide because of PTSD, and it's something
that we need to keep at the forefront of our conversations. Um,
(45:16):
we need to know the signs and symptoms of PTSD,
and it doesn't just happen on deployments. It can happen
in trainings. It can happen in daily operations in our
military community as well. So the book has a full
list of things that you need to be aware of
as a military spouse. Um, and also just to we
need to be keeping the dialogue open with our husbands, um,
(45:38):
checking in on them. Uh, sometimes they won't share with us. So, um,
being in prayer also that God would lead them to
open up and to share with whether that's their chaplain
or somebody in their chain of command or ourselves. But, um,
this is something that is definitely a challenge in our community.
S5 (46:00):
Yeah. Tim, what would you say to that?
S3 (46:04):
I would point back to something we discussed earlier of
of really leaning into as a spouse, leaning into your spouse,
of asking questions. And, and I understand, you know, sometimes
we can't talk about the scenario or we don't want to.
But for me, it has been especially healing to be
(46:26):
able to be completely transparent with Ashley on whatever it
is I've been through. You know, we can't have those
same level of conversations with our kids, but our kids
also know why I don't particularly care for a house
full of balloons during a party. And, uh, they get it.
They understand that. And that's been a nice way. Ashley's, uh.
(46:48):
gently been able to to love me and and support
me as an anecdote. But there is an abundance of
resources out there. I think we're at a transition to
where it's was stigmatized, and it has it is not
as stigmatized. And and I would take advantage of every resource, um,
(47:09):
both the service member, the spouse. And again, it doesn't
have to be a military service member or family going
through PTSD. And to what Ashley said earlier, you know,
biblically based counseling is is key and essential. It may
not be perfect and it may not solve everything you're
going through, but it it gets things out there in
(47:30):
a in a neutral playing field and really helps you
start to unpack it and understand it a bit better.
And again, just that choice to love that's that's part
of it is doing the hard work.
S5 (47:43):
Yeah. Well, Tim and Ashley, I want to thank you
for being with us today on the program and Ashley
for writing this book. And I just want to say
to our listeners, this is not just a book to
be read by military wives or military couples. I wish
civilian couples could read this book, because it will give
(48:03):
you a picture of a lifestyle that you're not familiar with,
and it will also help you be more effective in
praying for and encouraging military couples that you may know.
So thanks again for being with us and looking forward
to how God is going to use this book to
help others.
S2 (48:20):
Thank you so much for this opportunity. It's been an
absolute pleasure.
S3 (48:24):
Thank you, Doctor Chapman. If I could just say it
is surreal for us to be talking with someone who
has changed the lexicon in our society. When we talk about, hey,
you're not talking my love language, whether it's at home
or work, it is just an absolute honor.
S5 (48:41):
Well thank you.
S4 (48:42):
The title of that book is Mission Ready Marriage A
Christian Guide to Discovering Hope and purpose as a military wife.
But I agree with Gary. Everybody get a copy. Read it.
It's by Ashley Ashcraft. She and her husband, Tim have
been our guests today. You can find out more at
Building Relationships, Building Relationships.
S5 (49:05):
And next week we open the lines for your questions
and comments.
S1 (49:09):
Well that's right. And you can leave a message for
Doctor Chapman now at 1866424. Gary again call with any
relationship question. You have 1-866-424-4279. Our thanks to Janice backing
and Steve Wick for their work behind the scenes. Building
relationships with Doctor Gary Chapman is a production of Moody
(49:31):
Radio in association with Moody Publishers, a ministry of Moody
Bible Institute. Thanks for listening.
The struggles and triumphs of military marriages today. On building
relationships with Doctor Gary Chapman.
S2 (00:08):
You do have to take a back seat. A lot
of times as a military spouse, you're told where to
go and when to go, and your heart has to
be primed to follow, hopefully with loving service.
S3 (00:21):
That calling is a spouse. You're entering a mission field
and as a service member, and I think that's an
area that is ripe for believers and just a calling
out of what that could bring to marriages. Certainly in
the military and many marriages that are second or third
marriages as well.
S1 (00:44):
Welcome to building relationships with Doctor Gary Chapman, author of
the New York Times best seller The Five Love Languages. Today,
through multiple combat deployments, frequent sole parenting, post-traumatic stress, and
12 moves, Ashley realized she needed a plan to survive
her military marriage to her husband, Tim.
S4 (01:03):
And that plan is our featured resource today at Building Relationships.
It's titled Mission Ready Marriage A Christian Guide to Discovering
Hope and purpose as a military wife. Again, go to
building relationships. And with Memorial Day coming up this Monday,
I think this is the perfect time to talk about
(01:24):
military marriages and some of the struggles they face. Gary,
through the years, you've spoken into the lives of those
who serve our country, and it's not just the person
in uniform that serves. It's really the whole family, isn't it?
S5 (01:38):
Well, it is, Chris, no question about it, because every
family member is impacted by military lifestyle, which is very
different from the lifestyle that non-military people live. So. And
as you know, I've been very, very interested and concerned
with military couples. Wrote a special edition you remember of
the five love languages for military couples trying to face
(02:00):
some of those things. So I am really excited about
our conversation today and excited about this book. I think
it's going to be very helpful to our listeners.
S4 (02:07):
I do too. Let's meet our guests first. Ashley Ashcraft
is a nationally recognized educator, military wife, down syndrome advocate,
and homeschool mom. She's also a contributing writer for Military
Spouse magazine. Her husband, Tim Ashcraft, is a career Army
aviation officer and recipient of the Distinguished Flying Cross for
(02:28):
his actions in Afghanistan as an ah 64 Apache helicopter pilot.
He holds two masters, one in aerospace engineering, one in
military studies, served as an assistant professor in the Civil
and Mechanical Engineering department at West Point. Tim and Ashley
have been married for more than 15 years. They have
four children and are featured. Resource is the book Mission
(02:50):
Ready Marriage. You'll find out more at Building Relationships.
S5 (02:55):
Well, Ashley and Tim, Welcome to Building Relationships.
S2 (02:58):
Thank you, Doctor Chapman. It is a huge honor and
blessing to be with you today. You have been a
pivotal part of our marriage, because the five love languages
is something that we hold very dear to our marriage
and constantly remind ourselves of how to love the other.
So thank you for your work and as you mentioned,
your specific book for those who are married in the military.
S5 (03:23):
Well, I'm excited about your book that you're having you
and Tim on the program today. You know, we like
to hear love stories on this program. So, Ashley, start
us off. How did you meet Tim and how did
you know that he was the one for you?
S2 (03:38):
We met in our freshman English class in high school,
and we became dear friends, and we tried to date
a few times, but more than that, we were friends
for about eight years and this was before the time
of text messaging, so we constantly pass each other notes
in between classes and we would always address them from
(04:01):
famous characters. So two Prince Charming from Cinderella. And that's
how our love story started out. And then it was
our senior year in college, when I visited him up
at West Point on a trip over Easter where I
truly felt like I wanted to, that I knew I
(04:21):
wanted to dedicate the rest of my life to loving
this man and calling him my husband.
S5 (04:27):
Okay, Taylor, it's your turn. What was it like for you?
S3 (04:31):
I'll never forget when Ashley walked into Mrs. Hughes freshman
English class. And I was assuming we were dating all
those eight years, but. No, but we became very good friends.
And even through long distance. Um, and that's what really
cemented it. Of course, I fell more and more in
love with her through the years. But what what was
(04:53):
incredible to me was when she decided to move to
a small town in Alabama while I was finishing up
flight school, get a place of her own. And I
hadn't even proposed yet. And I thought, wow, I better
get serious because she's she's all in and I will
never forget that commitment early on.
S5 (05:11):
All right. Well, you know, all of us have a
story and it's amazing how God leads us together. Some
early in life, as with the two of you. Well, actually,
did you know what you were signing up for when
you married a military man?
S2 (05:26):
I had absolutely no clue. Which seems to be the
consensus in our community. I had two family members who
had served in the military before I was born, but
it wasn't something that was discussed or talked about as
I grew up. So other than knowing we would move
frequently and there would be deployments, I had no understanding
(05:50):
of what this life would actually entail as a military spouse?
S5 (05:54):
Yeah, most of us have no idea our little idea
of what marriage is going to be like, even if
we're not in the military.
S2 (06:01):
Amen.
S5 (06:03):
Well, Tim, uh, did you have any idea of the
adjustments in all that Ashley and later your family would
have to make?
S3 (06:11):
No idea. I really think there's a beautiful illustration in
Ashley's book about a spouse's oath of office. You know,
in the military, you take an oath of office and
any public service. And she has this beautiful illustration of
how there should be almost at the altar or when
you join up a spouse's oath of office, because they
(06:34):
really take on not just your oath, but the whole
family and providing for the family. So I, I had
no idea hardly what I was getting into and let
alone Ashley.
S5 (06:48):
Yeah. Ashley. What are some of the challenges, just in
a general sense, that military families face, that the general
public doesn't understand?
S2 (06:58):
I think one of the most important things for the
community to understand is that the military has the highest
divorce rate of any profession on the planet, so we
are in desperate need of support in our marriages. Also, 25%
of military families struggle with food insecurity, and this is
(07:18):
because of the low wages that they earn early on,
but also because of financial guidance that is really lacking
in the military community. And lastly, the military spouse unemployment
rate is five times the national average. So because we
(07:39):
move so frequently, it's challenging to transfer our licenses and
repeat tests and find jobs that fit our niche everywhere
that we go. So if there's not an unemployment rate,
then oftentimes we are underemployed as well.
S5 (07:57):
I think you're right on those things, and I think
very few civilians understand some of those things and perhaps
would not even have thought about those things.
S4 (08:07):
Tim, as as a person in the military, it must
break your heart to see marriages around you doing what
they're doing and those who are in the service.
S3 (08:18):
It really does. And it is a mission field for believers.
You cry out for those that are believers and struggling,
but those that don't even have a faith. I so
admire the the Chaplain Corps and the work they do,
but not just their work as a mission field. Ashley
(08:38):
talks in her book how that calling is a spouse.
You're entering a mission field and as a service member. Um,
and I think that's an area that is ripe for
believers and for just a calling out of what that
could bring to marriages, certainly in the military and many
marriages that are second or third marriages as well.
S5 (09:00):
Well, Tim, if you were talking to a young man
or a group of young men or women for that matter,
about joining the military, what would you say to them
in their consideration of the process of going into the military?
S3 (09:14):
I would say that there is a jersey for you,
and I'm I'm stealing that from my boss, who gave
a beautiful speech on if you want to be a veterinarian,
an artist, an astronaut, a pilot, a tanker, there is
a jersey for you. And a lot of people just
don't know the careers that they can take on. There's
(09:35):
incredible stories of people who have enlisted, who come from
the most humble beginnings, and go on to be general
officers or to serve distinguished careers twice over in the military,
and I would encourage them to really look into what
they want to be as a as a professional, as
(09:55):
a person, and how the military can complement that. And
when you couple those together, you have some of the
most incredible experiences you couldn't even ever imagine, while also
having a sense of service and and a calling to
something beyond yourself.
S5 (10:12):
Yeah, I think the plus side of military life is
often not emphasized among civilians, but there are a lot
of positive things there. I'm just thinking about children, for example,
and what exposure they have to various places, living various
places and all of that sort of thing. Yeah, so
(10:33):
I would certainly encourage young, young men who have any
interest at all, or young women for that matter, if
that's their interest to seriously consider military service. So actually, Ashley,
you mentioned some of the difficulties military families go through.
What was the most difficult for you and how did
you cope with it?
S2 (10:54):
By far the most difficult thing that we've been through
was Tim's first deployment. And true to military life, we
missed our first wedding anniversary together. He deployed the month
prior and two months into his deployment. I got a
phone call from him. And I knew something was wrong
(11:14):
right away and learned that earlier that morning he had
been shot down. And it was the night of power.
And extremists believed that on the night of power, if
they kill the enemy, then they will be rewarded by
Allah a thousand fold. And so, just as him and
his co-pilot were landing, they noticed that there were about
(11:38):
50 insurgents dressed in stolen US military uniforms breaching the wire.
And so they lifted back up but weren't able to
get to a high enough level for safety. And their
helicopter took 15 rounds. And by the grace of God,
they survived. But you don't come home from a deployment
(12:01):
like that without trauma. Well, trauma changes the brain, and
neither of us were equipped for what reintegration would look
like after he came home from that deployment. I think
there is a romanticized idea of what that's going to
look like. But he lost close friends over there and
(12:24):
he experienced traumatic events. And shortly after he returned home,
within just weeks, we moved to a new town. That
was a huge challenge in our marriage, figuring out how
to love and serve each other well in the midst
of trying to process everything that had just happened in
(12:46):
the last year and being ill equipped to do so.
S5 (12:49):
Yeah. Tim. Tim. What was that like for you? Just
just a few words from when you went through that
traumatic experience.
S3 (12:58):
The scenario that Ashley described, it was one an incredible
affirmation of my faith. I had never felt that peace
that surpasses all understanding more than I did in that
moment when we were fairly convinced that was it would
be going down in hostile territory. And I just felt
God's presence and by his grace. And but coming home,
(13:22):
despite the reintegration training that is given for the service
member and the spouse and the family, there was an
aspect of pride for me, and maybe arrogance too, of
oh no, I could go through that and I wouldn't
bring any of that home. But it really took Ashley
sitting me down and saying, no, you. You're different and
I love you and I just need you to acknowledge that.
(13:44):
So it was almost the that denial initially that had
to be gracefully presented by my, my wife, um, to
overcome that pride and start working through it.
S5 (13:57):
I don't think those of us who have never been
through that type of experience can imagine that. But the
positive thing for Christians, which you've shared, is the presence
of God in the midst of that of that trauma. Wow. Well, Tim,
it must have also been difficult for you to have
to deploy again and again and leave your family, or
(14:18):
be the reason why they had to move again. Uh,
what was that like for you?
S3 (14:23):
You know, I think it was a challenge I didn't
think about when signing up for the military. And I
don't know that at 17 years old, I had the
capacity to comprehend One. Starting a family in the military,
two having my wife move while deployed, and three raising
(14:47):
kids in that environment as well. So I not necessarily
expect a young teenager to think through that, but I
would encourage anyone at any stage to get involved in
their church, to get involved in a in a small group,
in their community, because we lean so heavily on those
(15:08):
around us and really lifted us up. And despite Ashley's strength,
really held up our our marriage and figurative and literal
way as well.
S5 (15:18):
You know, I remember once being at Fort Bragg, uh,
and I was speaking to the spouses and in Afghanistan,
they had a hookup where the spouses could actually hear
me at the same time. And then afterwards, later, another
time I was there. Carolyn and I were there when
(15:38):
the the troops were coming back and we watched, you know,
these spouses greeting them for the first time after they
came back and all and and it brought tears to
our eyes just just realizing, you know, what? What they
had gone through. Actually talk to young women who are
in love and they think things will work out fine,
(16:00):
and they're going to marry a military spouse, and they
don't see that as a big deal. What would you
say to them to perhaps help them prepare for this?
S2 (16:11):
I would say first that I understand you're so in love,
and it's hard to see beyond that. But I think
it's essential to prepare your heart for the mission work
that you're about to do. So the Lord determines our boundaries.
It says in acts 1726. And another one of the
(16:31):
positives about the military is that you get to travel
all around the country or the world, and God is
sending you out to do this mission work. But we
can't take that lightly, and we really have to prepare
our hearts in prayer to not fall into a trap
of bitterness and resentment, but to see this as the
(16:52):
Lord's work and to ask for his guidance. And I
think it would be imperative for a young woman to
ask for a mentor. Maybe that's somebody in her church
or at her fiance's local installation, but find someone who
has walked this path before you and that loves Jesus
(17:14):
more than anything, and have her hold your hand through
this and help prepare you. Because I think, as Tim
has alluded to, community has been essential for us, and
having those other Christ like brothers and sisters come alongside
us is really important to this process.
S5 (17:31):
Yeah, I really like the emphasis you have in the
book of this being a mission. You know, as Christians,
we're on mission. And I'm thinking in terms of missionaries
that we send out to other countries and churches, you know,
will adopt missionaries. They will have people praying for them
all the time. And really, it would be great if
we could have that kind of program for any military
(17:53):
couple that's in a Christian church, that they would have
couples at home praying for them. You know, like we
pray for our missionaries. So I really I really like
that emphasis. And but of course, you're emphasizing also not
only people at home praying for you, but also involve
yourself in chapels and churches wherever you go so that
(18:14):
you're you're walking this journey with other individuals.
S2 (18:18):
Absolutely. And I, I appreciate you mentioning that. And I
think if there are any church leaders that are listening
to this, that I would highly encourage them to pray
about seeing their those in their congregation that are in
the military as their missionaries and looking at how they
could support them through prayer or even financially as as
(18:39):
you mentioned.
S5 (18:40):
Yeah. Tim, would it be fair to say you felt
called to the military? Now, you went in very young,
but did you have a sense that God was calling
you into the military?
S3 (18:52):
So I had a romantic idea about the military. My
my grandfather was in World War two and commissioned into
the horse cavalry of all things. And then they mechanized
things and served in the war and came back. And
it was a great example to me, but I hadn't
really seriously considered it until I was looking at where
to go to school. So West Point to me, after
(19:14):
looking at all the academies, you get an Ivy League education.
You you can play army, you can go into the
you commission into the army. After that had first engineering
school in America. It was just all of the things
that that I was attracted to, but I didn't understand
the long, longer term commitment beyond your initial obligation. And
(19:38):
we were juniors in high school when nine over 11 happened.
So there was very much a sense of wanting to
serve and re-energizing the entire base in America of patriotism
and and really felt called to that. But even while
I was in school there, we thought the war would
be quickly over, much like the first Gulf War. So
I think it was a little bit of both. I
think that while I was in school, I really was.
(20:03):
It affirmed my reason for going and wanting to go
into the Army and out of the gate. I think
I was just a little too young to to understand
the long term commitment.
S5 (20:14):
Yeah. Ashley, you think it's important that wives of military
I'm talking about Christians now, uh, have that same sense of,
you know, being called with with that military person to
this particular mission.
S2 (20:29):
I think definitely taking this commitment to God and asking
him to prepare their hearts and to lead them and
to guide them. You know, I don't think it's an
accident when a military, when a woman falls in love
with a military man and that as you're speaking specifically
(20:49):
to Christians, I would just ask that or suggest that
she really pray about this and and search the scriptures
and see if she feels like she can support her
husband's service, because you do have to take a back seat.
A lot of times as a military spouse and you
(21:09):
don't often get a lot of choice, you're told where
to go and when to go, and your heart has
to be primed to to follow. Um, hopefully with loving service.
S5 (21:22):
Now, we hear a lot today, not only in the military,
even outside the military of loneliness. But I think being
in the military and for a spouse and often when
the when the husband or the other wife, only either
one is deployed and the other is left at home,
(21:42):
there has to be a sense of loneliness associated with
all of this. Speak to that in terms of your
own experience.
S2 (21:49):
I think that's one of the biggest hindrances that our
military spouse community faces is loneliness. And coupled with that
anxiety and depression and we're we move so often and
depending on your personality style, it can be really hard
to get out there and meet new people. It's not
likely that people are just going to show up at
(22:10):
your door and invite them into our lives, but that's
one thing that I have learned is to be that person.
Even when we've moved after 12 times, it gets a
little bit exhausting to start relationships again, but you never
know how long you're going to be there and the
friends and neighbors around you essentially need to become your
community for you to thrive. And so we've really learned
(22:32):
to just show up at all the doors around us
and jump into the churches and jump into serving and
find out ways that we can connect on our installations
has really been an imperative process. And the one thing
where I believe that God can use loneliness that we
experience happened for us. An example, when we were at
(22:54):
Fort Rucker, Alabama, and we went for a short course
so we weren't there long enough for me to teach,
which was my profession at the time. And so I
had to stay home and just felt very lonely. Not
having friends, not having community, not having family. Our church
at that time had challenged us to read the Bible
in 90 days, and without my having any work, I
(23:17):
was able to accept that challenge. And so I spent
those 90 days for the first time reading through the
entire Bible. I didn't always understand what I was reading,
but with the Holy Spirit's guidance, I was able to
get through that. And I think God really used that
time to draw me intimately close to him. And that's
really where my relationship with him caught fire. And so
(23:39):
I think there is a benefit to the quiet spaces
that are sometimes created for us as we move. But
along with that, I was also involved with our church,
so it's important to have that community as well.
S5 (23:52):
Yeah, I think utilizing that time when you are alone
more than at other times can be very, very profitable.
S1 (24:06):
This is the building relationships with Doctor Gary Chapman podcast.
For more simple ways to strengthen your relationships, go to
five Love Languages. Com our featured resource today is the
book by Ashley Ashcraft titled Mission Ready Marriage A Christian
Guide to Discovering Hope and purpose as a military wife.
Find out more at Five Love languages.com.
S4 (24:29):
I just want to say a word about Lieutenant Colonel
Ashcraft because I. I texted my brother, who is a
West Point grad, and said, hey, I got another West
Point grad coming on, and he sent me. You guys
at West Point know each other everything. He knows your
shoe size. He knows everything that you've done. And also,
(24:50):
I was interested when you were when you graduated high
school in Arizona, you were had honors, southern Arizona honors.
In football, you were a recipient of several awards. You
excelled in fine arts. So not only can you get
in a helicopter and go fly it over there, you
can sing a song and dance across the stage. And
(25:12):
now I understand why I actually was drawn to you, Tim.
S6 (25:16):
He was definitely the All-American.
S3 (25:19):
I'm sure my unit will have fun with that, sir, But.
S6 (25:23):
I.
S3 (25:24):
Will say there, there is. I'm so grateful for the
upbringing that I had. And serving on a worship arts
team in a chapel in Afghanistan was one of the
most special experiences I'll have. And doing an Easter sunrise
service in a in a country that is so beautiful,
yet has been war torn for so many years. It
(25:45):
was something else. And the bond that we have with those,
those folks will never be broken.
S4 (25:51):
Yeah. Keyboard and drums. Gary. So we can ask Tim
to do just about anything. But you know what he is?
He is a cheerleader for Ashley's book because he really
believes in this. And, uh, one other question, and then
I'll get it back. Give it back to you, Gary.
And that is the Distinguished Flying Cross. Not everybody gets that,
(26:11):
nor the Bronze Star. So when I see this picture
of you with all of these medals there, what goes
through your mind, Tim? When when you get to where
these things that have been given to you.
S3 (26:27):
Well thank you. It's very humbling. It is humbling to
think about those who served before and will continue to.
And I will say there's an immense sense of pride
in each of those awards and ribbons. Every, every one
of them has a story, but something that in the
military edition that Doctor Chapman talks about, there's an illustration
(26:50):
of a couple where the husband says, I would give
it all away because his marriage was falling apart. And
I would say that none of that would ever have
been possible without Ashley's support. And in that scenario that
that earned us the crew, the Distinguished Flying Cross. Ashley
wanted to know every detail and wanted to support me through,
(27:14):
you know, healing process and and everything else experienced through deployment. Redeployment.
And I would say I would. I would give it
all away if I had to. Thankfully, as as Doctor
Chapman alludes to in his book, you can have a
successful marriage and career as well, and through faith, I
believe is key. As an illustration, those metals are held
(27:36):
on in the back by a little pin. You know,
if there's anything that's held me through a military career,
it's it's Ashley. Um, and her, her rock solid faith
and foundation for our family. And, um, so that's a,
I guess, a bit of a metaphor, but that's what
I think of.
S5 (27:56):
I think we ought to have a little song and
celebration for you, Ashley. Right now. Okay.
S6 (28:01):
Hit it. Tim. One.
S3 (28:04):
Two. Three.
S5 (28:07):
All right, well, let's change the subject a bit here. Ashley. Uh,
you polled a lot of military wives, and you saw
a need in an area that you really hadn't planned
to address in this book. Talk about that.
S2 (28:20):
Yes, I was very surprised. I had outlined all the
chapters in my book and thought I had every subject
in there that needed to be addressed. But over and over,
as I talked to military spouses, one of the primary
concerns was their family of origin and their extended families
not understanding the depths of the sacrifice and really placing
(28:42):
a lot of blame and shame on our families. For example,
it's not easy for us to travel home for Christmas.
One of the reasons, of course, is financial. You know,
for my family to get across the country for Christmas
last year, if we would have gone, it would have
cost us $5,000. And that's very challenging. And but they
(29:04):
also don't understand often that some of our husbands are
on a deployment call where they have to be ready
to go in two hours, and so we can't plan
trips to go home. Often when our husbands are unable
to travel. Just understanding too that sometimes, most of the
(29:24):
time our vacations are home to our family of origin
and our extended families. But sometimes we need that time
to our immediate family ourselves, to create new memories and
to recoup. Because even if our spouse isn't deployed or
out training in the field, which feels like most of
the time their hours are really insane. And so we
(29:47):
hardly have any time together as a family. And so
it's also important for us to just have that time
with our immediate family and for our extended families to
understand that that's not anything against them. We just need
to cultivate our family bond as well. And so there's
a whole list of ways that we can help communicate
(30:07):
with our families back home, to help them understand ways
that they can support us. And as Tim has mentioned,
our families have. We've been very blessed to our families
have showed up every time that we have moved. They
have helped watch our kids, helped load the truck, have
helped pack the dishes. They welcome us home and create
(30:28):
beautiful environments for us to be home and create fun memories.
And and they really do understand that when we can't
come home, it's not personal.
S5 (30:39):
Yeah. Yeah. You're alluded to this, but talk about the
financial struggles of military couples. Why do so many have
difficulty in this area and what can be done to help?
S6 (30:51):
I think we could say.
S2 (30:53):
That generally across the board, people are struggling, not in education.
That unfortunately is being passed down in families or in school.
And but in the military specifically, it's a huge challenge.
And if you look at the statistics, it's near 8,090%
of us are in debt and at a very high number.
(31:14):
And so thankfully, one of the things that our family
has been blessed by is Financial Peace University by Dave Ramsey.
And they actually offer their Financial Peace University course for
free for active duty members. And so that's Tim and
I did that when we were engaged, and we followed
their program our entire marriage. And it has been a
(31:36):
huge blessing to our family.
S5 (31:38):
Yeah. Yeah. I hope that many military couples who don't
know about that will search that out, because that's certainly
good training. Well, let's talk about military kids. What have
you learned about helping kids? Going through a lot of
transitions in life?
S2 (31:53):
Our kids, when we moved to this house, had lived
in as many houses as they were old. So our
eight year old had just moved into her eighth house.
Our six year old moved into his sixth house, and
our four year old at that time had moved into
her fourth house. And so transition is all they know.
Saying goodbye to their friends, meeting new friends, leaving their homes,
(32:14):
finding new homes. And it's just been a challenge. So
one of our kids I talk about in the book
has been diagnosed with a transition disorder, and that is
common in our community. Um, a lot of it comes
with anxiety and depression, but we also try and create
a lot of fun with it too. When we move,
we try and find fun places along the route. When
(32:37):
dad is deployed or in training, the little ones that
still think it's fun to sleep in bed with mom.
They can hop in bed and sleep with me, or
we make silly dinners like waffles and pancakes that I
wouldn't make for dinner when Tim is home. And so
we've tried to create fun experiences amidst the challenges. But also,
I think the most imperative part for our military kids
(32:59):
is to know that they too, are on mission, that
they are never too young to love others, to serve others,
to share the gospel message. And that can be very
practical things we try and get our kids involved in.
For example, if we have a neighbour who is deployed,
then our kids can help bring the trash up, or
they can help us babysit their kids so that the
(33:22):
mom can get a break. Or when we have new
neighbors move in, we can invite them over for s'mores
in the backyard, or bring some flowers. And just real
practical ways to teach our kids that the Lord has
placed them at each military installation on purpose, um, for
them to serve and love.
S5 (33:41):
I think that whole theme of service, which is at
the heart of what the Christian lifestyle is all about,
if if non-military couples can teach their children to thank
military couples, you know, and for what they're doing. I
was just walking through an airport some time ago and
there were about five, I think 5 or 6 military
(34:04):
people there dressed in military garb. And this family was
walking by. And this young boy, I'm guessing he was
six years old. He looked up to these military people
and he said, thank you for protecting us. And I thought, man,
those parents are doing a great job at that age
that he has that concept. You know, that they're there
(34:26):
serving us. So yeah. So whether you're in the military
or out of military, if you're a Christian, service is
a theme of our lifestyle. Now, Tim and Ashley, with
your fourth child, you got some surprising news. Tell us
what happened.
S2 (34:43):
When we had our fourth baby, Tim wanted to have
a gender reveal party because those weren't popular when we
had our first three kids. So he wanted to shoot
off some confetti and find out what the gender of
our baby was. And at our OB that we were at,
they said the way they did that was through blood work.
And so when I received a phone call from my
(35:03):
OB office, I simply anticipated them saying that I would
be picking up a card at the front office, that
it was available with the gender. But the lady informed
me that, in fact, my blood work showed that there
was a nine out of ten chance that our baby
would have down syndrome, and unfortunately, there was no support
(35:23):
offered on that phone call. And I was completely ignorant
about down syndrome. So I was an absolute wreck with
that news. Uh, called Tim right away at work. He
rushed home to comfort me and explained to me the
truth that I knew in my heart, but that my
head just couldn't wrap itself around, was that the Lord
(35:44):
would be blessing us with this child, and he would
use this baby for for his kingdom purposes. And while
I was in the middle of writing this book, she
was born nine weeks early with two holes in her heart,
weighing just £2 and 12oz. And we lived in the
Ronald McDonald House for three months while she was in
(36:05):
the hospital. It was a complete surprise to us. Um,
nothing we would have planned for, but it has been
the biggest blessing in our life and brought the most
joy to our family. Amidst the challenges, um, God knows
what he's doing for our families. You know, when he
sends these surprises.
S5 (36:24):
How old is she now?
S2 (36:26):
She is 21 months now.
S5 (36:29):
Oh, Tim, what was your, uh, thoughts and feelings and
emotions during that time?
S3 (36:37):
You know, I think as we talked about earlier, God's
presence is always there and shows up when you need
it most. And I was in the busiest job I've
ever had when Ashley texted me and said, I need
you to call me right away. And that was always
you can tell right when you need to stop what
you're doing, regardless of how important you think it is.
(36:58):
And I called her and she was, um, I guess
hysterical in the sense of the word I was concerned
that she had lost the baby, and when she told
me it was a diagnosis for down syndrome. It was
almost a sense of relief because what came out was,
it'll be okay. And I don't know that I, without
(37:21):
God's presence, would have been able to say that otherwise. Um,
the weight of carrying a child and going through delivery,
I believe, is so much more on the mother. But when,
as the husband and the father, the other kids, you
realize that your wife is in such a vulnerable state
(37:46):
with a child with special needs, it really awakens you.
And I will say that it was God's way of
really shaking me and reprioritizing what's important. So God had
a at a different way of using that towards me,
But I will emphasize what Ashley said, that it has
been a blessing that we could never have imagined, despite
(38:11):
its challenges.
S5 (38:12):
Yeah, I think any parent who's listening who has a
special needs child, can certainly identify with everything that both
of you are saying. Ashley, in every chapter in your book,
you end with a section called Modeling Jesus. Why do
you think that's an essential ingredient for a successful marriage?
(38:34):
And how have you seen that play out in your
own marriage?
S2 (38:39):
I think it is the most essential thing for us
to do is to model Jesus in our marriages. And
far beyond that, you know, in our communities and our
parenting everything. But where that I really learned that lesson
came when we were stationed in Fort Leavenworth, Kansas. And
it had been a decade of me just feeling bitterness
(39:01):
and resentful for all the sacrifices that I had had
to make at a as a military spouse. And I
just reached a point where I was tired of myself
and I didn't want to feel that way anymore. And
so I decided lent was approaching, and I decided to
fast from being a bitter wife for 40 days. And
(39:22):
in that place I decided to create 40 challenges. So
for 40 days I loved him extravagantly and selflessly, even
if I didn't feel like it. Um, just to really
try and model Jesus. And we both agree that those
40 days were the best 40 days that we've had
(39:43):
in 15 years of marriage, and Tim didn't want it
to end when it was over. So he in turn
created a 40 day challenge for me. And that's where
I think we both really learned practically kind of boots
on the ground. What does it look like to model
Jesus in your marriage? And then we saw the benefits
of that.
S5 (40:04):
Yeah. If a husband and a wife can both have
the attitude of Christ, who said I didn't come to
be served? I came to serve. Are they going to
be on a road to a healthy marriage, whether you're
in the military or out of the military? Absolutely. Well,
talk to the couple going through some very real and
(40:26):
difficult times in their military marriage. Uh, what advice would
either of you, uh, give to them?
S2 (40:34):
I would first say, I see you. You know, we've
been through multiple deployments. We have lost all of our
belongings in a housing situation. We have lost babies and
trying to create a marriage and sustain a marriage. Cultivate
(40:56):
a marriage amidst that is very challenging, and I would
say that you can't do it alone. So if both parties, um,
will just invest into Christ, into the church, I think
that that's really imperative to help you through that. For us,
counseling has been a significant part of our healing journey
(41:19):
and finding a biblically and clinically informed therapist to help
you process everything and continue to grow together. And I
also think being around other brothers and sisters in Christ
as a couple together is really important. Um, having people
over for your from church together or being a part
of a Bible study together so you can see what
(41:41):
it looks like when other men and women who love
Jesus are trying to love their spouses.
S5 (41:47):
Yeah. Jim, would you add anything to that?
S3 (41:50):
I would, I, I would say that in the hardest
of times, one of your chapters really was striking for
me in Five Love Languages, and I think it Ashley's
book is almost a book on that chapter, and it's
love is a choice and modeling Jesus. Jesus chose to
love people that did not love him back. And Ashley's
(42:13):
book takes that concept into practical application for couples that
are in a really hard place where the easy choice
is to give up, and the cadet prayer says choose
the harder right over, the easier wrong, I think. Which
segues into another theme of loving the unlovely. Ashley has
(42:35):
had to love the unlovely more times than I can remember,
and fortunately for me, I. Ashley's lovely, so I've never
had to reciprocate. And I mean that sincerely. But through
this military life and just through marriage, any couple going
through a battlefield, right. Choosing to love the unlovely and
(42:56):
making that choice to love with grace and mercy like
Jesus did.
S5 (43:00):
Yeah, well, actually, writing was always a dream of yours.
And I assume that with your children and all the
kind of things we've been talking about that you've gone through,
you must have had to put that idea on the
shelf for a while. Uh, talk to those people who
maybe have a dream. It may not be writing, but
they have a dream, but they can't see a way
(43:22):
to achieve it. What would you say to them?
S2 (43:26):
I love how God puts dreams in our hearts. Even
from childhood, I'd always wanted to write ever since I
was a little girl, and I think just being in
constant prayer with God about that dream and asking him
to open and close the doors to make that dream happen,
if that's his will. Also, there's been seasons where I definitely,
(43:47):
you know, with three kids under five, earlier on in
our marriage, there was no way I could write a book.
But there were simple ways I could cultivate the craft
by writing a blog while the kids were napping, or
taking a course online while they were sleeping at night.
Just little things that that you can, um, continue to
learn in whatever that dream is that you're trying to achieve.
(44:10):
And then I would also say to connect with others
in the area that are pursuing that same dream that
you want to achieve, whether that's, you know, if you
really want to excel as a homeschool mom, connecting with
other moms who love Jesus that are homeschooling and, um,
just whatever that craft is, I would say just, yeah,
(44:30):
be in prayer, cultivate it in the moments when you can,
and then just leave it up to God for him
to create the opportunities, um, if that's his will for you.
S5 (44:40):
Well, lastly, as we come toward the end of our
time together today, we haven't talked a lot about PTSD. Uh,
can you address the stress on a family and the
returning soldier. Who's going through that?
S2 (44:54):
Yeah, absolutely. And I'd love to hear Tim's perspective on this, too.
But PTSD is something that we are so intimately familiar
with in our community. One of my best friends lost
her husband to suicide because of PTSD, and it's something
that we need to keep at the forefront of our conversations. Um,
(45:16):
we need to know the signs and symptoms of PTSD,
and it doesn't just happen on deployments. It can happen
in trainings. It can happen in daily operations in our
military community as well. So the book has a full
list of things that you need to be aware of
as a military spouse. Um, and also just to we
need to be keeping the dialogue open with our husbands, um,
(45:38):
checking in on them. Uh, sometimes they won't share with us. So, um,
being in prayer also that God would lead them to
open up and to share with whether that's their chaplain
or somebody in their chain of command or ourselves. But, um,
this is something that is definitely a challenge in our community.
S5 (46:00):
Yeah. Tim, what would you say to that?
S3 (46:04):
I would point back to something we discussed earlier of
of really leaning into as a spouse, leaning into your spouse,
of asking questions. And, and I understand, you know, sometimes
we can't talk about the scenario or we don't want to.
But for me, it has been especially healing to be
(46:26):
able to be completely transparent with Ashley on whatever it
is I've been through. You know, we can't have those
same level of conversations with our kids, but our kids
also know why I don't particularly care for a house
full of balloons during a party. And, uh, they get it.
They understand that. And that's been a nice way. Ashley's, uh.
(46:48):
gently been able to to love me and and support
me as an anecdote. But there is an abundance of
resources out there. I think we're at a transition to
where it's was stigmatized, and it has it is not
as stigmatized. And and I would take advantage of every resource, um,
(47:09):
both the service member, the spouse. And again, it doesn't
have to be a military service member or family going
through PTSD. And to what Ashley said earlier, you know,
biblically based counseling is is key and essential. It may
not be perfect and it may not solve everything you're
going through, but it it gets things out there in
(47:30):
a in a neutral playing field and really helps you
start to unpack it and understand it a bit better.
And again, just that choice to love that's that's part
of it is doing the hard work.
S5 (47:43):
Yeah. Well, Tim and Ashley, I want to thank you
for being with us today on the program and Ashley
for writing this book. And I just want to say
to our listeners, this is not just a book to
be read by military wives or military couples. I wish
civilian couples could read this book, because it will give
(48:03):
you a picture of a lifestyle that you're not familiar with,
and it will also help you be more effective in
praying for and encouraging military couples that you may know.
So thanks again for being with us and looking forward
to how God is going to use this book to
help others.
S2 (48:20):
Thank you so much for this opportunity. It's been an
absolute pleasure.
S3 (48:24):
Thank you, Doctor Chapman. If I could just say it
is surreal for us to be talking with someone who
has changed the lexicon in our society. When we talk about, hey,
you're not talking my love language, whether it's at home
or work, it is just an absolute honor.
S5 (48:41):
Well thank you.
S4 (48:42):
The title of that book is Mission Ready Marriage A
Christian Guide to Discovering Hope and purpose as a military wife.
But I agree with Gary. Everybody get a copy. Read it.
It's by Ashley Ashcraft. She and her husband, Tim have
been our guests today. You can find out more at
Building Relationships, Building Relationships.
S5 (49:05):
And next week we open the lines for your questions
and comments.
S1 (49:09):
Well that's right. And you can leave a message for
Doctor Chapman now at 1866424. Gary again call with any
relationship question. You have 1-866-424-4279. Our thanks to Janice backing
and Steve Wick for their work behind the scenes. Building
relationships with Doctor Gary Chapman is a production of Moody
(49:31):
Radio in association with Moody Publishers, a ministry of Moody
Bible Institute. Thanks for listening.
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