May 10, 2025 • 45 mins
Motherhood is a beautiful gift from God. But raising imperfect human beings can be exhausting and leave you depleted. On the next Building Relationships with Dr. Gary Chapman, discover how surrendering your motherhood can bring freedom. Do you feel like no matter how hard you try you’re not the mom you want to be? Hear encouragement on the next Building Relationships with Dr. Gary Chapman.
Featured resource: YOU'RE STILL A GOOD MOM: MOTHERHOOD SURRENDERED TO THE ONE WHO NEVER FAILS (EVEN WHEN YOU FEEL YOU HAVE)
Donate to Moody Radio: http://moodyradio.org/donateto/buildingrelationships
See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
S1 (00:00):
You can have your best day. You can have your
worst day, but at the end of it, there's this
sort of soul deep question we can lay our heads
down with and say, am I a good mom? And
that feels sometimes scary to ask out loud. And no
matter who we hear that from, I think somewhere I
recognize I really needed to hear that from the author
of Goodness himself.
S2 (00:24):
Welcome to Building relationships with Doctor Gary Chapman, author of
the New York Times best seller The Five Love Languages. Today,
on this Mother's Day weekend, Holly and I talks about
all the expectations of motherhood, the pressure to look good
and be the perfect mom. But what is a good mom?
And why does it seem like the lives of others
are always shinier and easier than yours?
S3 (00:47):
Holly is the author of a featured resource today at
Building Relationships. Here's the title. You are still a good mom.
Motherhood surrendered to the one who never fails, even when
you feel you have. You can find out more at
Building Relationships. And Gary, it seems like there is an
epidemic of pressure and stress on just about everybody in
(01:09):
the culture. But I think especially on moms.
S4 (01:13):
Well, I think you're right, Chris. And, you know, I'm
thinking also a lot of single moms. I mean, they
really have pressure, but but all moms, because moms love
their children. They want the best for them, you know?
And sometimes mothers put themselves under undue pressure thinking they've
got to produce a perfect child. I'm excited about our
conversation today, and I think this book is going to
(01:34):
be a great help to mothers.
S3 (01:37):
Well, let's meet Hallie Dye. She's an author, host of
the Saltworks podcast. She's a wife of 13 years to
her husband, Andrew, mom to three children, lives in Monroe, Louisiana.
And the featured resource at Building Relationships is that book,
You're Still a Good Mom. Go to Building relationships.
S4 (01:58):
Well, Hayley, welcome to Building Relationships.
S1 (02:01):
Thank you so much for having me. I am so
honored to be here with both of you. And I
just really appreciate it.
S4 (02:07):
Well, tell us about your life and family. Who is Hayley? Die.
S1 (02:11):
Hayley, die is a follower of Jesus. She is a
wife to my high school sweetheart. Actually, he's my very
best friend. As cheesy as that might sound. It's true.
I'm a mom of three kids. Boy girl boy. They are,
from start to finish, three and a half years apart.
And so it's been a busy few years. My oldest
(02:34):
is almost ten now, so in a slightly different stage
of life than when I was writing the book. I
have a podcast. I live in a somewhat small town,
love to travel though, love to read, like to read
a lot of fiction. And that's kind of me in
a nutshell.
S4 (02:52):
All right, well, sounds like many, many other mothers out there.
S1 (02:58):
Yes, yes.
S4 (02:59):
Every book has a story behind it. What's the story of?
You're still a good mom.
S1 (03:05):
You know, I at the beginning of 2020, before the
world closed down, there was a kind of a shift
where I've always needed to write or be able to
talk or pray out loud to kind of externally process things.
But there was a turning point somewhere in there where
I began to think, like, I would really like to
take writing more seriously. I don't think I ever had
(03:26):
in my mind writing a book necessarily, but just, you know,
I was like, maybe a blog. And, you know, thinking
along those lines. But then shortly after that, the world
did close down. Um, where we live, it was very
much shelter in place, and it was very isolating because
I had a four year old, a two year old
(03:47):
and a one year old. And so it was a lot, um,
not being able to go places and was already a
stay at home mom. But when we couldn't go anywhere,
that role and that time of life just became very
all consuming. Um, and I can remember I don't even
remember everything that happened on this one day, but there
was one particular day that was just really hard. The
(04:09):
needs just felt really endless. I didn't feel like enough.
I had this kind of low simmer feeling of failure
and the background, which honestly, unfortunately, I was pretty used to. Um,
but it it felt overpowering on that day. And at
the end of the day, when the kids were asleep,
I sat down on the edge of my bed and
began to type something into the notes app on my phone.
(04:32):
At the end of that, I kind of had the thought,
you know, this could be a book, which is so
funny because that was like not a whole thought that
I had. But it is. It did actually become the
intro to my book. And and it's been edited many times,
but the, the feel of it was. It's a letter
(04:52):
to a mom that feels very unseen and very. Is
anything that I'm doing amounting to anything? Am I failing?
Am I a good mom? It really just speaks to
what I needed to hear. And so that is how
this book began. Because you can have your best day.
You can have your worst day, but at the end
(05:13):
of it, there's this sort of soul deep question we
can lay our heads down with and say, am I
a good mom? And that feels sometimes scary to ask
out loud. And no matter who we hear that from,
I think somewhere I recognize I really needed to hear
that from the author of Goodness himself.
S4 (05:31):
I think a lot of moms can identify with what
you're saying. What do you hope this book accomplishes for moms?
S1 (05:37):
I hope that at the end of this book that
they feel a freedom and a rest in the gospel truth,
that he is well pleased with them because of the
righteousness of Christ. Because of that foundation that it is
no longer I who live, but Christ who lives in me.
That we will begin to mother from that place, and
(05:59):
not striving to mother for earning that position. And I
think that changes everything. And while this book is not
a parenting book because it unfortunately can't tell you how
to handle this situation with this child or this transition.
I do feel like as I was writing it, and
(06:20):
as I've learned to live the truths, um, that I
hopefully woven this book pointing back to him that it
has changed the way that I parent because there's a
freedom and a rest and a joy that I'm able
to have when I am no longer striving just to
outrun the feelings of failure.
S4 (06:38):
Yeah, I like the title because it uses the phrase
good mom. Can you define a good mom for us?
S1 (06:47):
That is such an excellent and hard question. And and
that really is what drove the entire book. And I
it's funny, I don't think I realized necessarily that that
was the concrete question I was trying to answer. Um,
I think probably when I started writing it, I was
wanting to know, am I doing enough? Am I enough,
(07:08):
am I worthy? And I think that's a lot of
times the issues. The funny thing is, defining a good
mom is sort of like teaching someone how to abide.
If you say, let me teach you, let me give
you a checklist of how to abide in the Lord.
Step one this. Step two. This. Step three. This. Maybe
(07:29):
some of those steps could be achievable. Attainable. But at
the end of it, even if we could do all
of those steps that someone gave us, would we really
have taught them to abide? And the answer is no.
Because what we've done is we've created a really great
checklist for self-sufficiency, because nothing in there has gone back
(07:50):
to him, has gone back to resting in what he says.
And so the whole idea of defining a good mom.
What I found is diving into scripture, but really learning
to turn back to him daily. I love the words
that John the Baptist says. We bear fruit in keeping
with repentance. The only way that we can bear fruit
(08:13):
is we constantly turn back to him, however many times
every minute, if we need to. That we need.
S4 (08:20):
Yeah. Well, you know, the subtitle is Motherhood surrendered to
the one who never fails.
S1 (08:28):
Mm.
S4 (08:29):
Why do you think moms today feel many of them
that they failed.
S1 (08:34):
I think a lot of that and what the first
part of the book seeks to do is hits on
what are those expectations that you're walking into motherhood with.
Is it that you were always going to cook homemade meals?
Is it that you were never going to do or say,
this is it that you are always going to be
the crafty mom, the fun mom, the strong mom? And
(08:57):
a lot of those things are things we've picked up
along the way. Maybe it was social media, maybe it
was how other people around us mother, or just what
you expected of yourself. I honestly think a lot of
that can be the way that we feel. There's a
lot of messages that we need absolutely, that hit on that.
Motherhood is not always going to look a certain way,
(09:19):
but I think sometimes what can be missing from that
conversation is motherhood is not always going to feel a
certain way either. And there's a whole chapter actually about compassion,
because sometimes we have these feelings of failure that we
didn't just wake up joyful and happy and patient and
glad to do the work set before us. And the
beautiful thing is, the compassion of Christ is that he
(09:42):
meets you there in those places that are hard. He's
he's not disappointed with us whenever we we need him again,
whenever we we need to go back and say, I
need you because I don't have the patience within myself.
And I think there's a lot of there's a lot
of that. There's a lot of us not thinking that
we should be limited or lacking. And so a lot
(10:02):
of the book is, I would say, on the front end,
kind of hitting on what are those expectations. And then
hopefully the second half begins to linger with moms on
some of these subjects of what can that look like?
S4 (10:16):
What does it mean to live surrendered? Because that's a
part of the theme of this book, is surrendering to
the one who never fails.
S1 (10:25):
Mhm. Surrender is such a hard word to use in motherhood,
because so much of what we have to do is
a task. Whether you are a biological mom, an adoptive mom,
Whether you have three kids or one, whether you are
married or you're single, there are a lot of things
that fall to you, whether it's, you know, I mean,
(10:47):
my my husband's very hands on, but there's something about
a mom that carries the weight of a lot of emotional.
Is all of my kids feeling seen? You know, are
they do they have what they need at school? Do
they know how I feel about them? There can be
this weightiness that we carry as moms, no matter how
we enter it or how much help we have, that
just falls to the role of mom. And it can
(11:10):
be hard to say, well, how does it look like
to surrender? And so I think the way that the
book is kind of written is it kind of dives
through different kind of facets of that. So there's a
whole chapter about what does it look like to live
surrendered in rest? What does it look like to live
surrendered in our dreams as moms? Can we even have hobbies?
(11:33):
Can moms have rest? Um, what does it look like
to live under the compassion of Passion of Christ. And
and I think in all of that, and really where
the book ends up in chapter 12 is we with
all things in life. There are many things where you
can you can study enough and you can practice enough
to hopefully gain that that result that you are looking for,
(11:55):
that you were hoping for. But our walk in Christianity
and in our roles as moms, that's not the case
because we can only control the input and that input
is our faithfulness. But that also allows this piece of
rest that while yes, I cannot control the outcome, I
can rest in the one who holds it all. It
(12:18):
doesn't depend on me. And so there's this joy of
I get to partner with the Lord in this role
that he's given me, instead of feeling like it all
depends on me. And so in all of these things,
surrender looks like, what would you have me do here?
Would you have me sign up my kid for this
extracurricular activity. Do you want us to go to public?
(12:39):
Private homeschool? What? What does it look like? Do you
want us to live in this neighborhood or that to
look for him in all of those things?
S4 (12:47):
Well, you know, this book is a very personal project
for you. What was the hardest section of this book
for you to write? Hailey.
S1 (12:56):
There were many chapters that I wrestled with because it
was very much one of those things that I was
having to really learn and come to grips with what
was true in order to write that down. And honestly,
I think that's a great practice for all of us
when we're wrestling with something, is can you write down
the truth? Because if you can't come to the conclusion
of what you believe, it's really hard to live from
that place or live it out. And so it was
(13:18):
a very refining process altogether and a lot of ways.
But the I would say the portion I struggled with
the most that sticks out in my mind is I
actually added chapters five and six later in the game.
And chapter five is all about how we have lack
and limitation, and. And we're supposed to. And it really
pinpoints how mom guilt always camps on what we lack.
(13:41):
It always stares at what we don't have, what we're
not good at. But it really doesn't hit on anything
we've failed at necessarily. It's just this low simmer feeling
that I'm not adding up. And so that chapter was
one in and of itself. Chapter six really went into
what does this mean for me when I have failed?
How do I navigate motherhood when I have failed, or
(14:04):
I have not navigated this relationship with my kids the
way that I would have wanted to, and I had
such a hard time not mixing chapter six into chapter five,
which just told me, for me, and I think probably
for many moms, if my wrestle was any indication that
we tend to want to write failure so much into
(14:27):
the places where we simply cannot have all of the
attributes of God and we weren't meant to.
S4 (14:34):
We know that social media has made many fall into
the comparison trap. Uh, how does a mom overcome that?
That never ending cycle of comparing herself with others?
S1 (14:47):
That is so good. And if you all find out,
let me know. Um, no.
S4 (14:51):
I'm kidding.
S1 (14:52):
I, I one thing that I think happens in social
media is you sit down and you scroll, and most
of the time you don't even mean for that to happen.
You really wanted to read a book, and then you
look up 30 minutes later, that book is sitting next
to you unopened because you're just scrolling through. And we
all have those habits and those moments where we just
kind of check out. But in that 20, 30 minute scroll,
(15:17):
you have seen a mom who made this homemade meal,
a mom who had this really clean, pristine house, a
mom who did this craft with their kids, a mom
who made it to all these events with her kids
and didn't have to miss any of them, even though
she has multiples. I mean, and at the end of
that scroll, your brain has subconsciously, you know, collected what
(15:39):
one person should be when the mom who had the
clean house didn't make the homemade meal, or the mom
that did the crafts wasn't able to go to this
soccer game because she had two conflicting things. There's just
this phenomenon that happens when we look at what's happening
in the whole world and think, we should be all
of those things, when in actuality, no one's able to
(16:00):
do all of that together. And so I think that's
one thing, you know, comparison is, is strange because we
we take ourselves and we set ourselves up next to
someone and in hopes that either we can be better
or that we can like, okay, well, I'm doing enough.
But the honest truth is we have to take all
(16:21):
of those things back to the gospel and say, really?
When I compare myself to the measure of God, I
fall very short. The honest truth is I can't compare
at all. My righteousness is filthy rags. But the beautiful
truth is that he has clothed me in his righteousness.
And when I sit in that, and we sit in
(16:43):
that gratitude of what he has done, there really isn't
room to feel like, well, why can't I be that?
Or why can't I do that? Or why? Why can't
I do better here? Because there's really only room for
that gratitude and it is hard. It's work to go
back to that all the time, but it's always true.
And that gospel truth never runs out.
S4 (17:03):
In the book you talk about how our limitations are
by design. We all have limitations. But what do you
mean by that? That they're by design. And why can
that be so hard for moms.
S1 (17:17):
At the beginning of that chapter? Lack and limitation. My
editor actually felt like that hook was not necessarily the strongest.
And she was right, because it's not this really personal
story like some of the others are. But I found
that if I wrote a personal story, like I said earlier,
I kept trying to add in things that really felt
(17:39):
like failure. And where I kind of landed was this
realization that before I became a mom, I was imperfect,
which I know is shocking, but I was. It's just
that after I became a mom, all of a sudden,
all the things that I liked that I didn't have
that that I wasn't good at, I couldn't give, I
couldn't excel at, for my child. And so all of
(18:01):
a sudden, all the areas that seemed fine for me
to have needs over here. Now, if I take room
for my needs, we we bring a baby home. Well,
now all of a sudden, every time I have a
need or I need to step away, or I need
to rest, or I'm not good at this thing that
all takes away from my child. And there's this sense that, well,
(18:25):
that shouldn't be. So, you know, a good mom should
should always be present. But but actually that that is
the design because we we can't be ever present. We
can't be all knowing. We can't be all powerful. Those
were only ever his. And so we kind of take
a look into Genesis three, because when the fall happens
and Adam and Eve, who God created the stars, he
(18:48):
created the animals, he created the plants and the water
and separated this and all of these things. And it
was good, and it was good and it was good.
And then it gets to man and woman, and all
of a sudden it's very good. And the interesting thing
is that they didn't have clothes, they lacked clothing and covering,
but he still deemed them very good. And then you
get into the fall where they're hiding and they're hiding
(19:11):
out of shame, and there's a lot there, but they
have done wrong. But when they hide and God says,
where are you? Adam says, well, we heard the sound
of you walking in the garden, which. How crazy is that?
We hid because we're naked. And God's first response before
he gets into the consequences or the deception that's unfolded,
(19:33):
the first thing he says is, who told you that
you were naked? And I think so often we come
into contact with those limitations, or we come into realization
with our lack when we fail and when we fall short.
And so we tend to want to connect those two things.
But the truth is, we see in that story that
we've always had need of a God, even before we
(19:55):
had need of a Savior. That the issue really was
not that Eve wanted to be more like God. It
was that she wanted to be more God like. So
the antidote to that is for us to continually turn
back in those places. We don't feel like we have
what we need and go, God, I'm not enough. But
you are. You give me the capacity for the things
(20:18):
that I need. And if I don't have that capacity today.
You didn't need me to, and that's okay.
S4 (20:24):
Yeah. I'm reminded of what Jesus said as recorded in
John 15 verse five when he said, I am the vine,
you're the branches. You stay connected, you bear fruit. And
then he said, without me you can do nothing.
S1 (20:38):
Exactly.
S4 (20:39):
Uh, and we realize that as moms, our dads, you know,
we desperately need God's help. And I think that's why
this book is going to be so helpful to, uh,
to moms as well. Well, this is Mother's Day weekend.
And you say in the book that this holiday has
been a struggle for you. Why is that?
S1 (20:57):
You know, and I want to say this first, because
if my husband hears this, he is amazing. And he
always makes me feel special. So it's not because he
doesn't bring flowers or thinks about me. He makes me
feel special, truly, every day. He's a wonderful person. But
I think on Mother's Day we have this picture because
(21:19):
we've seen other moms honored and, um, we've seen their
shout outs and we've heard what people have to say
about them on days like Mother's Day. And so I
think what happened was the first few Mother's Days, I
woke up thinking, okay, here's the day. Not that I
(21:41):
get to be celebrated. I used to think, okay is
my issue, that I just want to be celebrated. I
just want to be worshipped today. But when I began
to really wrestle with these concepts, I began to realize
when we go through life thinking we're not enough and
we're not worthy, and we have to strive and perform
and do enough in order to gain that. Then on
Mother's Day, if we don't feel that way, if we
(22:04):
don't feel that we are told or enough, then it
feels like major failure, because that is the one day
that we wake up thinking, I finally get to hear
if I've passed or failed. but that's not actually true.
And and I think I had to come to learn
that even a day that is called Mother's Day, it's
still a day for his glory. And that becomes way
(22:26):
easier when I realize his goodness. Um, in the way
that he loves me and in the way that he
allows me to be a mom.
S4 (22:35):
Yeah, it's a tremendous gift when you think about it. Right?
Being a mom, of course, being a dad, a great
gift that God has given us. And that's why I
think all of us are so grateful that we have
the model, you know, of God our father and Christ
our Savior, and all of that. So.
S2 (22:56):
You're listening to the Building Relationships with Doctor Gary Chapman podcast.
He's the author of the New York Times best seller
The Five Love Languages. Hallie Dye is our guest. And
if you go to Building Relationships, you'll see our featured resource,
her book, You're Still a Good Mom. Motherhood surrendered to
the one who never fails, even when you feel you have. Again,
(23:18):
go to building relationships.
S4 (23:23):
I think you said earlier that you do not consider
this book to be a parenting book. Is that true? Mhm.
S1 (23:30):
Yes. I think that's because most of the time when
I think, okay, I need a parenting book because, um,
you know, I have this really strong willed child or
now I have teenagers or how do I deal with
these toddlers. And you know, you look for books that
have methods and there's not a whole lot of method
(23:51):
to this book other than relinquishing. And yet that has
changed the way that I parent so much.
S4 (23:59):
Hmm. So relinquishing that sense of control and acknowledging that
God will give me what I need, uh, to be
the mom he wants me to be. Right.
S1 (24:12):
Right.
S4 (24:13):
What was the biggest fear in writing this book?
S1 (24:17):
Heresy.
S4 (24:20):
I was.
S1 (24:21):
I think, um, anytime I speak or teach or write anything,
that has been my greatest fear because, um, you know,
I can deal with having poor writing or grammatical errors,
but if I feel like I've failed him or failed
to bring glory to him, then that scares me. But
(24:41):
that's also something I've had to learn to really hand
to him and trust him. That's another thing I've had
to learn to surrender. I would say another thing in
writing this book has been, oh my goodness, what if
I launch this book and I'm out at target and
I still don't have all this together? And I've learned
that will happen because I still don't have all this together.
(25:04):
But the truth is that I don't have to. And
he holds again, holds the outcomes. And so it's been
very gracious for me to really work through those fears
with him. But they were also very real.
S4 (25:19):
Yeah, I can see that. Well, talk about the values
and the difficulties of connecting with other moms.
S1 (25:28):
Mhm. One difficulty, um, that comes to mind immediately is
especially with smaller kids, is just being able to finish
your sentences. I mean, you know, you sometimes will get
together and you'll leave and say, we started about 20
stories and finished none of them, you know. And that
(25:50):
can make you feel like, oh, goodness, did they feel
like I was distracted? Well, you know, we were because
we were keeping people alive, you know. And but the
value is when we really are able to connect over
things that. Oh, really? You were feeling that way too,
because you you look like you always have that together.
I had no idea you were struggling with the same things.
It's that. And that's what's been so beautiful about the book,
(26:13):
is hearing people all say, I needed to hear this,
because a lot of times, and this goes back to
fears in writing, there's a lot of those could be
a whole episode, but a lot of times I'll be
writing something and you wrestle with something so long that
at the end you can kind of convince yourself, no
one really needs to hear this. Um, everybody already knows this, but,
you know, it's been life giving to hear the Lord
(26:36):
use it in moms lives. And it connects me with strangers.
You know, when when I speak at an event and
a woman comes up with tears in her eyes and say,
I always ask myself or wonder, am I a good mom?
And so I just think there's this universal bonding that
the Lord's given us in this role. And so it's
(26:56):
so important to connect. But there can be a lot
of things. And I think going back to those feelings of,
of mom failure and guilt, we can kind of want
to overcome those with trying to look like we have
it all together, and that can actually be a hindrance
of getting getting to that deeper connection of, oh, actually
have the struggle to and and we can have this
(27:17):
deeper connection over, over that.
S4 (27:19):
Yeah. I think life was meant to be lived in community.
And whether it's parents or dads or moms or whatever,
we can help each other, and it helps us when
we realize that others may be struggling with similar things.
How did the writing of this book shape your motherhood journey?
S1 (27:38):
Well, I quit it a lot. Um, because I would
be writing and, um, then have a day where I
just felt like the most impatient mom or the biggest
mom failure, or just feel like I can't say these
things to other moms. I'm struggling to believe I'm, you know,
alone in my four walls. And so there were many
(27:59):
times I quit the book, sometimes audibly. But in all
of that, every time I returned, I had to really
come back to what is true. No, this is true.
Those things were lies. Those things were feelings. But this
is true. And so it really was refining in such
a gracious process for the Lord to have me walk through.
Because I truly believe this for other moms now, and
(28:21):
can say that with feeling and gumption, because I had
to come back to that in order for this book
to to become what it is and for me to
continue to put this out. And so that is one thing.
And also even just in the the meeting, writing deadlines
and and learning the publishing process, because it is still
foreign to me and in the marketing and still being
(28:43):
a mom on the side of all those things was
really coming to the end of that surrender we've been
talking about. If this is the capacity that I have,
there's been times that the kids are home from school
because they're sick or they're out of school that week,
and I'm speaking that week, and I have to really,
you know, like start my talk and practice and then
(29:04):
pause it and peel an apple and then come back.
And where was I? And going back a year ago,
that would have really stressed me out. But now I'm
able to rest. And you knew I would be here.
You knew that this would be our circumstances. Um, when
I said yes to this. And so the capacity that
you've given me is enough. And if I can glorify
(29:25):
you and speak truth, that's okay, because none of this
is a performance.
S4 (29:29):
Yeah, absolutely. You know, I don't know, but you may
have this experience in the future. But as I've gotten older,
I reflect back on when I was single, when I
first had children, when I first had teenagers, I've sometimes
reread my books in those areas and think, man, I
wish I'd have had this, you know, back, back then.
(29:51):
So so I think perhaps you'll find that true as well.
You know, uh, in wrestling with mom guilt because you're
You are walking through it and you're writing it as
you're going through it, you know? So I think it's
going to help a lot of ladies who are going
through it. What's the Lord teaching you in your current
season of motherhood?
S1 (30:13):
Well, first of all, let me say how encouraging that
was and also say that your work has impacted me
and I've been grateful to have it, um, in my
marriage and in my all of my relationships. So thank you.
That was extremely encouraging. I think it goes back to,
in my current motherhood is the capacity piece, but to
(30:34):
extend that also towards the ability to just be present,
because I think when we are trying to earn this
title of a good mom or, um, enough or worthy,
whatever that title is that we feel like we're fighting
for in our actions and in our tasks completed, that
we can miss the people across from us. But when
(30:55):
I'm able to rest in all of those gospel truths
that we've talked about, then I'm able to actually be
present because I don't have to earn my worth. And
we've actually had some really good conversations with some friends
after the book launch, talking about rest and being able
to play with our kids and enjoy hobbies as moms.
(31:16):
And I think one of the reasons that moms struggle
the most with those things is because if you are
finding your worth and work, then you cannot take a
break from that because you feel worthless when you rest
and you feel worthless when you play or do something
you want to do. But the gospel truth says that
(31:36):
our worth remains the same because of who he is
and what he's done. And so it actually gives us
the permission to do those things. But the benefit of
that now with older kids is they're able to see
a mom who can pause and stop and be present,
and it's that same old Martha, Martha, you are worried
about all these things, but there's only one thing that
(31:57):
is that really matters. And so that permission that Jesus
gives Martha. They're not to be merry, but to come
as Martha is. And and that, I would say, is
where I'm at right now.
S4 (32:10):
Yeah.
S3 (32:10):
It sounds to me like, as I'm hearing you, Hallie,
the truth of God's sovereignty has kind of seeped into
your soul where you're not performing for him any longer.
You're simply receiving from him and then trying. Well, it's
the abundant life. You know, I came to give life
and give it abundantly. That's what you're saying yes to.
(32:31):
Is that right?
S1 (32:33):
Yes, absolutely. And it's a daily, daily surrender and sitting
in that truth. But yes.
S4 (32:41):
Ellie, in our last segment, you mentioned Martha and what
Jesus said about her and Mary. Are there other biblical
examples that were helpful to you as you studied the scriptures,
looking at this area of motherhood?
S1 (32:54):
Absolutely two come to mind right off the bat. One
of them is how when David fought Goliath and he
tried to wear Saul's armor, that he recognized that one,
it didn't fit. But it also says that they were untested.
But what was tested and true was him being able
to rely on the Lord. And so we talk about
(33:15):
that in in the lack and limitation of he looked
outwardly unaccompanied. Goliath had a what was it, a shield bearer?
I can't remember exactly what the term was, but outwardly
David had nothing and was way smaller. But but he
had the Lord. And that is something that is so
encouraging to me as a mom, because there are many
(33:37):
times that I want to put Saul's armor on, because
I want to look like that mom, or or be
like that, mom. But the Lord has plans for me,
and I don't need to be the perfect mom. I
just need to be the mom that God made me
to be. And that is a good mom. And another
is the Proverbs 31 woman. And a lot of people
don't realize that she wasn't real. She was this sort
(34:01):
of poem created by King Lemuel's mother for him to
kind of recognize the character of, of a, of a
good wife and of a good mom. And we look
at her and we think, oh my goodness, there's no
way I can amount to all, of, all of these
things that she's good at and that she has achieved. And,
you know, she makes her own bedspreads and she gets
(34:23):
up before the dawn. That one sounds the hardest to me. Um,
but that she's an entrepreneur and she is organized and
she is wise, and she turns a profit and can
speak eloquently. And there's all these things that you think, man,
I don't have all of those. But what's really neat
when we realize that she wasn't a real person, meaning
(34:46):
to meet all of these checklists in one season and
one person, we begin to say, okay, but do you
see any of these traits that align with how God
created you to be? Well then good. You get to
see the the Word of God. Affirm those things in you,
and how can you live those out to his glory?
And so those things have been really freeing to me
(35:07):
as a mom.
S4 (35:09):
Yeah, I know every time I hear a message on
that on Mother's Day, I kind of feel for mothers
because it lays it on really heavy. And and many
times they don't make the point that you just made
that this is not a real mother. This is a
mother describing for her son what a wonderful, wonderful mother
(35:31):
would be like.
S1 (35:32):
Right. And the ultimate truth that she's a woman who
fears the Lord, you know.
S4 (35:37):
Oh, yeah, that's where it all starts. And that's really
the heart of your book, I think, too, is it's
it's our relationship with God that is going to carry
us through and make us a good mom. Not a
perfect mom, but a good mom.
S1 (35:51):
Absolutely.
S4 (35:53):
How has writing this book impacted your own personal faith
in God?
S1 (35:58):
You know, from start to finish to quitting, to starting
again and really even how this book was published. Because honestly,
I shouldn't have gotten a book deal. The world and
the publishing world says that shouldn't have happened. Um, and
that would be true. But so often as I wrestled
(36:19):
over the fears that we talked about earlier, I would pray, Lord,
if this book is not going to bring you glory,
if this book is about me and it's not about
what you have to say for moms, it's not. It's
not about you. Um, if it's not going to point
people to you, if it's going to lead anyone astray,
please don't let this book go out. Don't let this
be successful. And I had to pray that in order
(36:41):
to be able to rest, that that I was within
his will. And so I look back at really the
miraculous way that it did get published. And I go, okay,
you had a plan. And so when I look back
and say, oh, you know, maybe I should have said
this or I wouldn't have said it exactly like that
or whatever, that fear that that little worry or doubt
(37:02):
that that comes up later. I know for a fact
that he had a plan for this, and that also
allows me to rest in moving forward on the next thing, um,
whether that's a public decision or just something inside my
home to go, okay, I don't know the future. I
don't know what I need. I don't know what my
kids need. But you do. Would you guide my hands
(37:25):
in every single facet and decision? And if I begin
to walk through a door that's not for your glory
or isn't far good, would you just shut it? And
that has begun to change the way that I move forward.
Just seeing his faithfulness and his provision. Um, and really
just the providence in the past.
S4 (37:42):
Yeah. I think that a desire that all of us
who are true Christians have is we want to walk
the path that God has for us, you know, and
that's going to be different for every one of us
because we're unique and we're all gifted differently. But if
we are seeking that and want and asking God to
guide us in what he has in mind for us,
(38:03):
you know, the scriptures say man makes his plans, but
God directs his steps. And that's what all of us want.
As we come near the end of our program today,
talk to the mom who's listening, who feels guilty for
not being the perfect mother, and then feels guilty for
feeling guilty. What would you say to her?
S1 (38:25):
Oh, not the double guilt. I think so often when
we ask this question, am I a good mom? We
can be really good at remembering the the highlight reel
of all the ways we didn't measure up for the day.
You know, we don't necessarily remember all the things we
showed up and did a good job, but we can
always really remember the ways that we do feel like
we failed. And I want to say this one if
(38:49):
you have the righteousness of Christ, then you have the
covering in which he claimed, this is my son, in
whom I'm well pleased. We really need to sit in
that and and really wrestle with. Could that be true?
Because yes it is. And it will change everything. But
to the mom that says, well, you don't know this.
And I really did lose my patience and I really
(39:09):
did raise my voice and and this, this, this, the
beautiful truth about repentance and repair, repenting with the Lord
and then repairing with our kids of modeling this saying,
I'm sorry is so powerful because kids hold their parents
in high esteem no matter what we do. We just do.
(39:30):
Parents are just important. That's why people in their 30s, 40s,
50s would still love to hear this word from their
parents that they never felt like they did, or whatever
that looks like. And so our words matter. But the
beautiful thing about when we fail and we model that
repentance and repair for our kids and with our kids,
they're able to see, oh my goodness, when mom said this,
(39:53):
when dad said this, they didn't lose their worth. When
they admitted that they failed and that they're sorry. And
not only does it show them this is the way,
but it also makes it to where they can now
memorize that pathway to the throne of grace and mercy
in their time of need. And what if the Lord
is so sovereign and so providential, that he can actually
(40:16):
use even our failures to model that repentance that we
are to keep up with in order to bear fruit.
And so I would just encourage that, mom, that you
literally can't outrun his faithfulness and his goodness if you
continue to seek him and follow him in everything.
S3 (40:34):
Hallie, can you tell us a story from the book,
kind of a vulnerable place in your own life that
that will sum up what you've been talking about here today.
S1 (40:44):
Absolutely. Um, one of my favorite stories from the book,
and I joke all the time that really, this book
is just writing these great truths that my husband said,
and I just wrote it and put my name on it. Um,
but there was a one day in that season that
I talked about of we were kind of beginning to
get out of shelter at home in 2020, but, um,
(41:04):
but we were very much still at home, still had
a four now three and one year old. And I'd
been home all day with them, um, by myself. And
it was just, again, a long day and a lot
of needs and caretaking in that time of life. And, um,
just I want to say to any mom that that's
a hard season and it doesn't it's not like that forever.
(41:25):
But my husband came home and he's so fun, and
he was like, hey, let's take the kids to the pool.
Because we had recently joined a gym here locally. And
I would love to say that the gym and the
workout facility sold me. But really, the snack bar and
the splash pad and the pool sold me. So I
was like, okay, you know, well, let's, let's go. And
that'll be good. And I wanted to be the mom
(41:47):
in that instance so badly. That was joyful and excited
about that experience. I would love to be the mom
that didn't think about how hard that would be and
show up and say, oh, this is kind of a challenge.
I've never been that person. And so I'm automatically thinking, oh,
that means that I've got to get wrestle all of
them into their swimsuits. That means that we already have
(42:07):
three and there's two of us. So we've already moved
from man to man defense to zone defense. And now
we're going to do that by open pools of water.
And so I'm thinking through all those things. And um,
but I don't say any of it out loud. I
just say, okay, you know, and I'm really trying to
force my feelings into being the fun, joyful mom that
I really want to be. And so we go and
we go to the splash pad first, exhaust all the
(42:29):
splash pad. And six minutes later, when we've done that,
they're ready to go to the pool. So we go,
we get in the kiddie pool and everyone has a
good time and you know, it goes well. And then
I recognize we probably need to go before everybody gets hangry.
And so we load up. And I really just was
at war with myself for my feelings in that moment.
(42:51):
I was just even though everybody had a good time
and nobody really knew I was struggling, I just still
felt a certain way and I couldn't really pinpoint that.
So we're almost home and my kids are in the
back seat and they're playing and talking, so they're not
paying attention to us. And I finally was able to like,
pinpoint why am I feeling this way? And I voiced
to my husband, Andrew, you know, I just want to
(43:13):
be the mom that is always fun and loving and kind.
And I thought he would say, oh, you are. And
I would have ignored that because he's nice and I
that wouldn't have, you know, really made me feel better, unfortunately.
But he didn't. He said, do you want a God
that is always fun and loving and kind? And that
kind of took me aback and I thought about it.
(43:34):
And even though I recognized that we have no say
in who God is, I chose to play along and said, well, well,
I want a God that is good. Because somewhere in
my answer, I recognized there's a lot more to God
than just those things. And he said, exactly. And there's
a lot more. And like, spoke directly to that and said,
(43:56):
there's a lot more that's encompassing and good and that's
what you're giving our kids. Well, I can barely tell
that story without.
S4 (44:04):
Crying because.
S1 (44:06):
That was such a kindness to me.
S4 (44:08):
Yes. A very wise husband, I would say. Absolutely. Well, Holly,
this conversation has been very, very good. And I really
believe this book is going to help a lot of
moms who are struggling with this whole issue and often
feeling guilty of not not being a good mom. So
thanks for writing the book, and thanks for being with
(44:30):
us today on the program.
S1 (44:32):
Groom. Thank you so much. I pray that it will
and thank you for having me. It was an honor.
S3 (44:37):
Again, the title of Hally's book, You're Still a Good Mom.
Motherhood surrendered to the one who never fails, even when
you feel you have again. By Hayley Dye d y
e and you can find out more about that at
Building Relationships Again, building relationships.
S4 (44:56):
And next week, help for parents who want to raise
children the way God designed them.
S2 (45:02):
Don't miss the conversation with Sally Clarkson in one week.
Our thanks to Janice backing and Steve Wick for their
work behind the scenes. Building relationships with Doctor Gary Chapman
is a production of Moody Radio in association with Moody Publishers,
a ministry of Moody Bible Institute. Thanks for listening.
You can have your best day. You can have your
worst day, but at the end of it, there's this
sort of soul deep question we can lay our heads
down with and say, am I a good mom? And
that feels sometimes scary to ask out loud. And no
matter who we hear that from, I think somewhere I
recognize I really needed to hear that from the author
of Goodness himself.
S2 (00:24):
Welcome to Building relationships with Doctor Gary Chapman, author of
the New York Times best seller The Five Love Languages. Today,
on this Mother's Day weekend, Holly and I talks about
all the expectations of motherhood, the pressure to look good
and be the perfect mom. But what is a good mom?
And why does it seem like the lives of others
are always shinier and easier than yours?
S3 (00:47):
Holly is the author of a featured resource today at
Building Relationships. Here's the title. You are still a good mom.
Motherhood surrendered to the one who never fails, even when
you feel you have. You can find out more at
Building Relationships. And Gary, it seems like there is an
epidemic of pressure and stress on just about everybody in
(01:09):
the culture. But I think especially on moms.
S4 (01:13):
Well, I think you're right, Chris. And, you know, I'm
thinking also a lot of single moms. I mean, they
really have pressure, but but all moms, because moms love
their children. They want the best for them, you know?
And sometimes mothers put themselves under undue pressure thinking they've
got to produce a perfect child. I'm excited about our
conversation today, and I think this book is going to
(01:34):
be a great help to mothers.
S3 (01:37):
Well, let's meet Hallie Dye. She's an author, host of
the Saltworks podcast. She's a wife of 13 years to
her husband, Andrew, mom to three children, lives in Monroe, Louisiana.
And the featured resource at Building Relationships is that book,
You're Still a Good Mom. Go to Building relationships.
S4 (01:58):
Well, Hayley, welcome to Building Relationships.
S1 (02:01):
Thank you so much for having me. I am so
honored to be here with both of you. And I
just really appreciate it.
S4 (02:07):
Well, tell us about your life and family. Who is Hayley? Die.
S1 (02:11):
Hayley, die is a follower of Jesus. She is a
wife to my high school sweetheart. Actually, he's my very
best friend. As cheesy as that might sound. It's true.
I'm a mom of three kids. Boy girl boy. They are,
from start to finish, three and a half years apart.
And so it's been a busy few years. My oldest
(02:34):
is almost ten now, so in a slightly different stage
of life than when I was writing the book. I
have a podcast. I live in a somewhat small town,
love to travel though, love to read, like to read
a lot of fiction. And that's kind of me in
a nutshell.
S4 (02:52):
All right, well, sounds like many, many other mothers out there.
S1 (02:58):
Yes, yes.
S4 (02:59):
Every book has a story behind it. What's the story of?
You're still a good mom.
S1 (03:05):
You know, I at the beginning of 2020, before the
world closed down, there was a kind of a shift
where I've always needed to write or be able to
talk or pray out loud to kind of externally process things.
But there was a turning point somewhere in there where
I began to think, like, I would really like to
take writing more seriously. I don't think I ever had
(03:26):
in my mind writing a book necessarily, but just, you know,
I was like, maybe a blog. And, you know, thinking
along those lines. But then shortly after that, the world
did close down. Um, where we live, it was very
much shelter in place, and it was very isolating because
I had a four year old, a two year old
(03:47):
and a one year old. And so it was a lot, um,
not being able to go places and was already a
stay at home mom. But when we couldn't go anywhere,
that role and that time of life just became very
all consuming. Um, and I can remember I don't even
remember everything that happened on this one day, but there
was one particular day that was just really hard. The
(04:09):
needs just felt really endless. I didn't feel like enough.
I had this kind of low simmer feeling of failure
and the background, which honestly, unfortunately, I was pretty used to. Um,
but it it felt overpowering on that day. And at
the end of the day, when the kids were asleep,
I sat down on the edge of my bed and
began to type something into the notes app on my phone.
(04:32):
At the end of that, I kind of had the thought,
you know, this could be a book, which is so
funny because that was like not a whole thought that
I had. But it is. It did actually become the
intro to my book. And and it's been edited many times,
but the, the feel of it was. It's a letter
(04:52):
to a mom that feels very unseen and very. Is
anything that I'm doing amounting to anything? Am I failing?
Am I a good mom? It really just speaks to
what I needed to hear. And so that is how
this book began. Because you can have your best day.
You can have your worst day, but at the end
(05:13):
of it, there's this sort of soul deep question we
can lay our heads down with and say, am I
a good mom? And that feels sometimes scary to ask
out loud. And no matter who we hear that from,
I think somewhere I recognize I really needed to hear
that from the author of Goodness himself.
S4 (05:31):
I think a lot of moms can identify with what
you're saying. What do you hope this book accomplishes for moms?
S1 (05:37):
I hope that at the end of this book that
they feel a freedom and a rest in the gospel truth,
that he is well pleased with them because of the
righteousness of Christ. Because of that foundation that it is
no longer I who live, but Christ who lives in me.
That we will begin to mother from that place, and
(05:59):
not striving to mother for earning that position. And I
think that changes everything. And while this book is not
a parenting book because it unfortunately can't tell you how
to handle this situation with this child or this transition.
I do feel like as I was writing it, and
(06:20):
as I've learned to live the truths, um, that I
hopefully woven this book pointing back to him that it
has changed the way that I parent because there's a
freedom and a rest and a joy that I'm able
to have when I am no longer striving just to
outrun the feelings of failure.
S4 (06:38):
Yeah, I like the title because it uses the phrase
good mom. Can you define a good mom for us?
S1 (06:47):
That is such an excellent and hard question. And and
that really is what drove the entire book. And I
it's funny, I don't think I realized necessarily that that
was the concrete question I was trying to answer. Um,
I think probably when I started writing it, I was
wanting to know, am I doing enough? Am I enough,
(07:08):
am I worthy? And I think that's a lot of
times the issues. The funny thing is, defining a good
mom is sort of like teaching someone how to abide.
If you say, let me teach you, let me give
you a checklist of how to abide in the Lord.
Step one this. Step two. This. Step three. This. Maybe
(07:29):
some of those steps could be achievable. Attainable. But at
the end of it, even if we could do all
of those steps that someone gave us, would we really
have taught them to abide? And the answer is no.
Because what we've done is we've created a really great
checklist for self-sufficiency, because nothing in there has gone back
(07:50):
to him, has gone back to resting in what he says.
And so the whole idea of defining a good mom.
What I found is diving into scripture, but really learning
to turn back to him daily. I love the words
that John the Baptist says. We bear fruit in keeping
with repentance. The only way that we can bear fruit
(08:13):
is we constantly turn back to him, however many times
every minute, if we need to. That we need.
S4 (08:20):
Yeah. Well, you know, the subtitle is Motherhood surrendered to
the one who never fails.
S1 (08:28):
Mm.
S4 (08:29):
Why do you think moms today feel many of them
that they failed.
S1 (08:34):
I think a lot of that and what the first
part of the book seeks to do is hits on
what are those expectations that you're walking into motherhood with.
Is it that you were always going to cook homemade meals?
Is it that you were never going to do or say,
this is it that you are always going to be
the crafty mom, the fun mom, the strong mom? And
(08:57):
a lot of those things are things we've picked up
along the way. Maybe it was social media, maybe it
was how other people around us mother, or just what
you expected of yourself. I honestly think a lot of
that can be the way that we feel. There's a
lot of messages that we need absolutely, that hit on that.
Motherhood is not always going to look a certain way,
(09:19):
but I think sometimes what can be missing from that
conversation is motherhood is not always going to feel a
certain way either. And there's a whole chapter actually about compassion,
because sometimes we have these feelings of failure that we
didn't just wake up joyful and happy and patient and
glad to do the work set before us. And the
beautiful thing is, the compassion of Christ is that he
(09:42):
meets you there in those places that are hard. He's
he's not disappointed with us whenever we we need him again,
whenever we we need to go back and say, I
need you because I don't have the patience within myself.
And I think there's a lot of there's a lot
of that. There's a lot of us not thinking that
we should be limited or lacking. And so a lot
(10:02):
of the book is, I would say, on the front end,
kind of hitting on what are those expectations. And then
hopefully the second half begins to linger with moms on
some of these subjects of what can that look like?
S4 (10:16):
What does it mean to live surrendered? Because that's a
part of the theme of this book, is surrendering to
the one who never fails.
S1 (10:25):
Mhm. Surrender is such a hard word to use in motherhood,
because so much of what we have to do is
a task. Whether you are a biological mom, an adoptive mom,
Whether you have three kids or one, whether you are
married or you're single, there are a lot of things
that fall to you, whether it's, you know, I mean,
(10:47):
my my husband's very hands on, but there's something about
a mom that carries the weight of a lot of emotional.
Is all of my kids feeling seen? You know, are
they do they have what they need at school? Do
they know how I feel about them? There can be
this weightiness that we carry as moms, no matter how
we enter it or how much help we have, that
just falls to the role of mom. And it can
(11:10):
be hard to say, well, how does it look like
to surrender? And so I think the way that the
book is kind of written is it kind of dives
through different kind of facets of that. So there's a
whole chapter about what does it look like to live
surrendered in rest? What does it look like to live
surrendered in our dreams as moms? Can we even have hobbies?
(11:33):
Can moms have rest? Um, what does it look like
to live under the compassion of Passion of Christ. And
and I think in all of that, and really where
the book ends up in chapter 12 is we with
all things in life. There are many things where you
can you can study enough and you can practice enough
to hopefully gain that that result that you are looking for,
(11:55):
that you were hoping for. But our walk in Christianity
and in our roles as moms, that's not the case
because we can only control the input and that input
is our faithfulness. But that also allows this piece of
rest that while yes, I cannot control the outcome, I
can rest in the one who holds it all. It
(12:18):
doesn't depend on me. And so there's this joy of
I get to partner with the Lord in this role
that he's given me, instead of feeling like it all
depends on me. And so in all of these things,
surrender looks like, what would you have me do here?
Would you have me sign up my kid for this
extracurricular activity. Do you want us to go to public?
(12:39):
Private homeschool? What? What does it look like? Do you
want us to live in this neighborhood or that to
look for him in all of those things?
S4 (12:47):
Well, you know, this book is a very personal project
for you. What was the hardest section of this book
for you to write? Hailey.
S1 (12:56):
There were many chapters that I wrestled with because it
was very much one of those things that I was
having to really learn and come to grips with what
was true in order to write that down. And honestly,
I think that's a great practice for all of us
when we're wrestling with something, is can you write down
the truth? Because if you can't come to the conclusion
of what you believe, it's really hard to live from
that place or live it out. And so it was
(13:18):
a very refining process altogether and a lot of ways.
But the I would say the portion I struggled with
the most that sticks out in my mind is I
actually added chapters five and six later in the game.
And chapter five is all about how we have lack
and limitation, and. And we're supposed to. And it really
pinpoints how mom guilt always camps on what we lack.
(13:41):
It always stares at what we don't have, what we're
not good at. But it really doesn't hit on anything
we've failed at necessarily. It's just this low simmer feeling
that I'm not adding up. And so that chapter was
one in and of itself. Chapter six really went into
what does this mean for me when I have failed?
How do I navigate motherhood when I have failed, or
(14:04):
I have not navigated this relationship with my kids the
way that I would have wanted to, and I had
such a hard time not mixing chapter six into chapter five,
which just told me, for me, and I think probably
for many moms, if my wrestle was any indication that
we tend to want to write failure so much into
(14:27):
the places where we simply cannot have all of the
attributes of God and we weren't meant to.
S4 (14:34):
We know that social media has made many fall into
the comparison trap. Uh, how does a mom overcome that?
That never ending cycle of comparing herself with others?
S1 (14:47):
That is so good. And if you all find out,
let me know. Um, no.
S4 (14:51):
I'm kidding.
S1 (14:52):
I, I one thing that I think happens in social
media is you sit down and you scroll, and most
of the time you don't even mean for that to happen.
You really wanted to read a book, and then you
look up 30 minutes later, that book is sitting next
to you unopened because you're just scrolling through. And we
all have those habits and those moments where we just
kind of check out. But in that 20, 30 minute scroll,
(15:17):
you have seen a mom who made this homemade meal,
a mom who had this really clean, pristine house, a
mom who did this craft with their kids, a mom
who made it to all these events with her kids
and didn't have to miss any of them, even though
she has multiples. I mean, and at the end of
that scroll, your brain has subconsciously, you know, collected what
(15:39):
one person should be when the mom who had the
clean house didn't make the homemade meal, or the mom
that did the crafts wasn't able to go to this
soccer game because she had two conflicting things. There's just
this phenomenon that happens when we look at what's happening
in the whole world and think, we should be all
of those things, when in actuality, no one's able to
(16:00):
do all of that together. And so I think that's
one thing, you know, comparison is, is strange because we
we take ourselves and we set ourselves up next to
someone and in hopes that either we can be better
or that we can like, okay, well, I'm doing enough.
But the honest truth is we have to take all
(16:21):
of those things back to the gospel and say, really?
When I compare myself to the measure of God, I
fall very short. The honest truth is I can't compare
at all. My righteousness is filthy rags. But the beautiful
truth is that he has clothed me in his righteousness.
And when I sit in that, and we sit in
(16:43):
that gratitude of what he has done, there really isn't
room to feel like, well, why can't I be that?
Or why can't I do that? Or why? Why can't
I do better here? Because there's really only room for
that gratitude and it is hard. It's work to go
back to that all the time, but it's always true.
And that gospel truth never runs out.
S4 (17:03):
In the book you talk about how our limitations are
by design. We all have limitations. But what do you
mean by that? That they're by design. And why can
that be so hard for moms.
S1 (17:17):
At the beginning of that chapter? Lack and limitation. My
editor actually felt like that hook was not necessarily the strongest.
And she was right, because it's not this really personal
story like some of the others are. But I found
that if I wrote a personal story, like I said earlier,
I kept trying to add in things that really felt
(17:39):
like failure. And where I kind of landed was this
realization that before I became a mom, I was imperfect,
which I know is shocking, but I was. It's just
that after I became a mom, all of a sudden,
all the things that I liked that I didn't have
that that I wasn't good at, I couldn't give, I
couldn't excel at, for my child. And so all of
(18:01):
a sudden, all the areas that seemed fine for me
to have needs over here. Now, if I take room
for my needs, we we bring a baby home. Well,
now all of a sudden, every time I have a
need or I need to step away, or I need
to rest, or I'm not good at this thing that
all takes away from my child. And there's this sense that, well,
(18:25):
that shouldn't be. So, you know, a good mom should
should always be present. But but actually that that is
the design because we we can't be ever present. We
can't be all knowing. We can't be all powerful. Those
were only ever his. And so we kind of take
a look into Genesis three, because when the fall happens
and Adam and Eve, who God created the stars, he
(18:48):
created the animals, he created the plants and the water
and separated this and all of these things. And it
was good, and it was good and it was good.
And then it gets to man and woman, and all
of a sudden it's very good. And the interesting thing
is that they didn't have clothes, they lacked clothing and covering,
but he still deemed them very good. And then you
get into the fall where they're hiding and they're hiding
(19:11):
out of shame, and there's a lot there, but they
have done wrong. But when they hide and God says,
where are you? Adam says, well, we heard the sound
of you walking in the garden, which. How crazy is that?
We hid because we're naked. And God's first response before
he gets into the consequences or the deception that's unfolded,
(19:33):
the first thing he says is, who told you that
you were naked? And I think so often we come
into contact with those limitations, or we come into realization
with our lack when we fail and when we fall short.
And so we tend to want to connect those two things.
But the truth is, we see in that story that
we've always had need of a God, even before we
(19:55):
had need of a Savior. That the issue really was
not that Eve wanted to be more like God. It
was that she wanted to be more God like. So
the antidote to that is for us to continually turn
back in those places. We don't feel like we have
what we need and go, God, I'm not enough. But
you are. You give me the capacity for the things
(20:18):
that I need. And if I don't have that capacity today.
You didn't need me to, and that's okay.
S4 (20:24):
Yeah. I'm reminded of what Jesus said as recorded in
John 15 verse five when he said, I am the vine,
you're the branches. You stay connected, you bear fruit. And
then he said, without me you can do nothing.
S1 (20:38):
Exactly.
S4 (20:39):
Uh, and we realize that as moms, our dads, you know,
we desperately need God's help. And I think that's why
this book is going to be so helpful to, uh,
to moms as well. Well, this is Mother's Day weekend.
And you say in the book that this holiday has
been a struggle for you. Why is that?
S1 (20:57):
You know, and I want to say this first, because
if my husband hears this, he is amazing. And he
always makes me feel special. So it's not because he
doesn't bring flowers or thinks about me. He makes me
feel special, truly, every day. He's a wonderful person. But
I think on Mother's Day we have this picture because
(21:19):
we've seen other moms honored and, um, we've seen their
shout outs and we've heard what people have to say
about them on days like Mother's Day. And so I
think what happened was the first few Mother's Days, I
woke up thinking, okay, here's the day. Not that I
(21:41):
get to be celebrated. I used to think, okay is
my issue, that I just want to be celebrated. I
just want to be worshipped today. But when I began
to really wrestle with these concepts, I began to realize
when we go through life thinking we're not enough and
we're not worthy, and we have to strive and perform
and do enough in order to gain that. Then on
Mother's Day, if we don't feel that way, if we
(22:04):
don't feel that we are told or enough, then it
feels like major failure, because that is the one day
that we wake up thinking, I finally get to hear
if I've passed or failed. but that's not actually true.
And and I think I had to come to learn
that even a day that is called Mother's Day, it's
still a day for his glory. And that becomes way
(22:26):
easier when I realize his goodness. Um, in the way
that he loves me and in the way that he
allows me to be a mom.
S4 (22:35):
Yeah, it's a tremendous gift when you think about it. Right?
Being a mom, of course, being a dad, a great
gift that God has given us. And that's why I
think all of us are so grateful that we have
the model, you know, of God our father and Christ
our Savior, and all of that. So.
S2 (22:56):
You're listening to the Building Relationships with Doctor Gary Chapman podcast.
He's the author of the New York Times best seller
The Five Love Languages. Hallie Dye is our guest. And
if you go to Building Relationships, you'll see our featured resource,
her book, You're Still a Good Mom. Motherhood surrendered to
the one who never fails, even when you feel you have. Again,
(23:18):
go to building relationships.
S4 (23:23):
I think you said earlier that you do not consider
this book to be a parenting book. Is that true? Mhm.
S1 (23:30):
Yes. I think that's because most of the time when
I think, okay, I need a parenting book because, um,
you know, I have this really strong willed child or
now I have teenagers or how do I deal with
these toddlers. And you know, you look for books that
have methods and there's not a whole lot of method
(23:51):
to this book other than relinquishing. And yet that has
changed the way that I parent so much.
S4 (23:59):
Hmm. So relinquishing that sense of control and acknowledging that
God will give me what I need, uh, to be
the mom he wants me to be. Right.
S1 (24:12):
Right.
S4 (24:13):
What was the biggest fear in writing this book?
S1 (24:17):
Heresy.
S4 (24:20):
I was.
S1 (24:21):
I think, um, anytime I speak or teach or write anything,
that has been my greatest fear because, um, you know,
I can deal with having poor writing or grammatical errors,
but if I feel like I've failed him or failed
to bring glory to him, then that scares me. But
(24:41):
that's also something I've had to learn to really hand
to him and trust him. That's another thing I've had
to learn to surrender. I would say another thing in
writing this book has been, oh my goodness, what if
I launch this book and I'm out at target and
I still don't have all this together? And I've learned
that will happen because I still don't have all this together.
(25:04):
But the truth is that I don't have to. And
he holds again, holds the outcomes. And so it's been
very gracious for me to really work through those fears
with him. But they were also very real.
S4 (25:19):
Yeah, I can see that. Well, talk about the values
and the difficulties of connecting with other moms.
S1 (25:28):
Mhm. One difficulty, um, that comes to mind immediately is
especially with smaller kids, is just being able to finish
your sentences. I mean, you know, you sometimes will get
together and you'll leave and say, we started about 20
stories and finished none of them, you know. And that
(25:50):
can make you feel like, oh, goodness, did they feel
like I was distracted? Well, you know, we were because
we were keeping people alive, you know. And but the
value is when we really are able to connect over
things that. Oh, really? You were feeling that way too,
because you you look like you always have that together.
I had no idea you were struggling with the same things.
It's that. And that's what's been so beautiful about the book,
(26:13):
is hearing people all say, I needed to hear this,
because a lot of times, and this goes back to
fears in writing, there's a lot of those could be
a whole episode, but a lot of times I'll be
writing something and you wrestle with something so long that
at the end you can kind of convince yourself, no
one really needs to hear this. Um, everybody already knows this, but,
you know, it's been life giving to hear the Lord
(26:36):
use it in moms lives. And it connects me with strangers.
You know, when when I speak at an event and
a woman comes up with tears in her eyes and say,
I always ask myself or wonder, am I a good mom?
And so I just think there's this universal bonding that
the Lord's given us in this role. And so it's
(26:56):
so important to connect. But there can be a lot
of things. And I think going back to those feelings of,
of mom failure and guilt, we can kind of want
to overcome those with trying to look like we have
it all together, and that can actually be a hindrance
of getting getting to that deeper connection of, oh, actually
have the struggle to and and we can have this
(27:17):
deeper connection over, over that.
S4 (27:19):
Yeah. I think life was meant to be lived in community.
And whether it's parents or dads or moms or whatever,
we can help each other, and it helps us when
we realize that others may be struggling with similar things.
How did the writing of this book shape your motherhood journey?
S1 (27:38):
Well, I quit it a lot. Um, because I would
be writing and, um, then have a day where I
just felt like the most impatient mom or the biggest
mom failure, or just feel like I can't say these
things to other moms. I'm struggling to believe I'm, you know,
alone in my four walls. And so there were many
(27:59):
times I quit the book, sometimes audibly. But in all
of that, every time I returned, I had to really
come back to what is true. No, this is true.
Those things were lies. Those things were feelings. But this
is true. And so it really was refining in such
a gracious process for the Lord to have me walk through.
Because I truly believe this for other moms now, and
(28:21):
can say that with feeling and gumption, because I had
to come back to that in order for this book
to to become what it is and for me to
continue to put this out. And so that is one thing.
And also even just in the the meeting, writing deadlines
and and learning the publishing process, because it is still
foreign to me and in the marketing and still being
(28:43):
a mom on the side of all those things was
really coming to the end of that surrender we've been
talking about. If this is the capacity that I have,
there's been times that the kids are home from school
because they're sick or they're out of school that week,
and I'm speaking that week, and I have to really,
you know, like start my talk and practice and then
(29:04):
pause it and peel an apple and then come back.
And where was I? And going back a year ago,
that would have really stressed me out. But now I'm
able to rest. And you knew I would be here.
You knew that this would be our circumstances. Um, when
I said yes to this. And so the capacity that
you've given me is enough. And if I can glorify
(29:25):
you and speak truth, that's okay, because none of this
is a performance.
S4 (29:29):
Yeah, absolutely. You know, I don't know, but you may
have this experience in the future. But as I've gotten older,
I reflect back on when I was single, when I
first had children, when I first had teenagers, I've sometimes
reread my books in those areas and think, man, I
wish I'd have had this, you know, back, back then.
(29:51):
So so I think perhaps you'll find that true as well.
You know, uh, in wrestling with mom guilt because you're
You are walking through it and you're writing it as
you're going through it, you know? So I think it's
going to help a lot of ladies who are going
through it. What's the Lord teaching you in your current
season of motherhood?
S1 (30:13):
Well, first of all, let me say how encouraging that
was and also say that your work has impacted me
and I've been grateful to have it, um, in my
marriage and in my all of my relationships. So thank you.
That was extremely encouraging. I think it goes back to,
in my current motherhood is the capacity piece, but to
(30:34):
extend that also towards the ability to just be present,
because I think when we are trying to earn this
title of a good mom or, um, enough or worthy,
whatever that title is that we feel like we're fighting
for in our actions and in our tasks completed, that
we can miss the people across from us. But when
(30:55):
I'm able to rest in all of those gospel truths
that we've talked about, then I'm able to actually be
present because I don't have to earn my worth. And
we've actually had some really good conversations with some friends
after the book launch, talking about rest and being able
to play with our kids and enjoy hobbies as moms.
(31:16):
And I think one of the reasons that moms struggle
the most with those things is because if you are
finding your worth and work, then you cannot take a
break from that because you feel worthless when you rest
and you feel worthless when you play or do something
you want to do. But the gospel truth says that
(31:36):
our worth remains the same because of who he is
and what he's done. And so it actually gives us
the permission to do those things. But the benefit of
that now with older kids is they're able to see
a mom who can pause and stop and be present,
and it's that same old Martha, Martha, you are worried
about all these things, but there's only one thing that
(31:57):
is that really matters. And so that permission that Jesus
gives Martha. They're not to be merry, but to come
as Martha is. And and that, I would say, is
where I'm at right now.
S4 (32:10):
Yeah.
S3 (32:10):
It sounds to me like, as I'm hearing you, Hallie,
the truth of God's sovereignty has kind of seeped into
your soul where you're not performing for him any longer.
You're simply receiving from him and then trying. Well, it's
the abundant life. You know, I came to give life
and give it abundantly. That's what you're saying yes to.
(32:31):
Is that right?
S1 (32:33):
Yes, absolutely. And it's a daily, daily surrender and sitting
in that truth. But yes.
S4 (32:41):
Ellie, in our last segment, you mentioned Martha and what
Jesus said about her and Mary. Are there other biblical
examples that were helpful to you as you studied the scriptures,
looking at this area of motherhood?
S1 (32:54):
Absolutely two come to mind right off the bat. One
of them is how when David fought Goliath and he
tried to wear Saul's armor, that he recognized that one,
it didn't fit. But it also says that they were untested.
But what was tested and true was him being able
to rely on the Lord. And so we talk about
(33:15):
that in in the lack and limitation of he looked
outwardly unaccompanied. Goliath had a what was it, a shield bearer?
I can't remember exactly what the term was, but outwardly
David had nothing and was way smaller. But but he
had the Lord. And that is something that is so
encouraging to me as a mom, because there are many
(33:37):
times that I want to put Saul's armor on, because
I want to look like that mom, or or be
like that, mom. But the Lord has plans for me,
and I don't need to be the perfect mom. I
just need to be the mom that God made me
to be. And that is a good mom. And another
is the Proverbs 31 woman. And a lot of people
don't realize that she wasn't real. She was this sort
(34:01):
of poem created by King Lemuel's mother for him to
kind of recognize the character of, of a, of a
good wife and of a good mom. And we look
at her and we think, oh my goodness, there's no
way I can amount to all, of, all of these
things that she's good at and that she has achieved. And,
you know, she makes her own bedspreads and she gets
(34:23):
up before the dawn. That one sounds the hardest to me. Um,
but that she's an entrepreneur and she is organized and
she is wise, and she turns a profit and can
speak eloquently. And there's all these things that you think, man,
I don't have all of those. But what's really neat
when we realize that she wasn't a real person, meaning
(34:46):
to meet all of these checklists in one season and
one person, we begin to say, okay, but do you
see any of these traits that align with how God
created you to be? Well then good. You get to
see the the Word of God. Affirm those things in you,
and how can you live those out to his glory?
And so those things have been really freeing to me
(35:07):
as a mom.
S4 (35:09):
Yeah, I know every time I hear a message on
that on Mother's Day, I kind of feel for mothers
because it lays it on really heavy. And and many
times they don't make the point that you just made
that this is not a real mother. This is a
mother describing for her son what a wonderful, wonderful mother
(35:31):
would be like.
S1 (35:32):
Right. And the ultimate truth that she's a woman who
fears the Lord, you know.
S4 (35:37):
Oh, yeah, that's where it all starts. And that's really
the heart of your book, I think, too, is it's
it's our relationship with God that is going to carry
us through and make us a good mom. Not a
perfect mom, but a good mom.
S1 (35:51):
Absolutely.
S4 (35:53):
How has writing this book impacted your own personal faith
in God?
S1 (35:58):
You know, from start to finish to quitting, to starting
again and really even how this book was published. Because honestly,
I shouldn't have gotten a book deal. The world and
the publishing world says that shouldn't have happened. Um, and
that would be true. But so often as I wrestled
(36:19):
over the fears that we talked about earlier, I would pray, Lord,
if this book is not going to bring you glory,
if this book is about me and it's not about
what you have to say for moms, it's not. It's
not about you. Um, if it's not going to point
people to you, if it's going to lead anyone astray,
please don't let this book go out. Don't let this
be successful. And I had to pray that in order
(36:41):
to be able to rest, that that I was within
his will. And so I look back at really the
miraculous way that it did get published. And I go, okay,
you had a plan. And so when I look back
and say, oh, you know, maybe I should have said
this or I wouldn't have said it exactly like that
or whatever, that fear that that little worry or doubt
(37:02):
that that comes up later. I know for a fact
that he had a plan for this, and that also
allows me to rest in moving forward on the next thing, um,
whether that's a public decision or just something inside my
home to go, okay, I don't know the future. I
don't know what I need. I don't know what my
kids need. But you do. Would you guide my hands
(37:25):
in every single facet and decision? And if I begin
to walk through a door that's not for your glory
or isn't far good, would you just shut it? And
that has begun to change the way that I move forward.
Just seeing his faithfulness and his provision. Um, and really
just the providence in the past.
S4 (37:42):
Yeah. I think that a desire that all of us
who are true Christians have is we want to walk
the path that God has for us, you know, and
that's going to be different for every one of us
because we're unique and we're all gifted differently. But if
we are seeking that and want and asking God to
guide us in what he has in mind for us,
(38:03):
you know, the scriptures say man makes his plans, but
God directs his steps. And that's what all of us want.
As we come near the end of our program today,
talk to the mom who's listening, who feels guilty for
not being the perfect mother, and then feels guilty for
feeling guilty. What would you say to her?
S1 (38:25):
Oh, not the double guilt. I think so often when
we ask this question, am I a good mom? We
can be really good at remembering the the highlight reel
of all the ways we didn't measure up for the day.
You know, we don't necessarily remember all the things we
showed up and did a good job, but we can
always really remember the ways that we do feel like
we failed. And I want to say this one if
(38:49):
you have the righteousness of Christ, then you have the
covering in which he claimed, this is my son, in
whom I'm well pleased. We really need to sit in
that and and really wrestle with. Could that be true?
Because yes it is. And it will change everything. But
to the mom that says, well, you don't know this.
And I really did lose my patience and I really
(39:09):
did raise my voice and and this, this, this, the
beautiful truth about repentance and repair, repenting with the Lord
and then repairing with our kids of modeling this saying,
I'm sorry is so powerful because kids hold their parents
in high esteem no matter what we do. We just do.
(39:30):
Parents are just important. That's why people in their 30s, 40s,
50s would still love to hear this word from their
parents that they never felt like they did, or whatever
that looks like. And so our words matter. But the
beautiful thing about when we fail and we model that
repentance and repair for our kids and with our kids,
they're able to see, oh my goodness, when mom said this,
(39:53):
when dad said this, they didn't lose their worth. When
they admitted that they failed and that they're sorry. And
not only does it show them this is the way,
but it also makes it to where they can now
memorize that pathway to the throne of grace and mercy
in their time of need. And what if the Lord
is so sovereign and so providential, that he can actually
(40:16):
use even our failures to model that repentance that we
are to keep up with in order to bear fruit.
And so I would just encourage that, mom, that you
literally can't outrun his faithfulness and his goodness if you
continue to seek him and follow him in everything.
S3 (40:34):
Hallie, can you tell us a story from the book,
kind of a vulnerable place in your own life that
that will sum up what you've been talking about here today.
S1 (40:44):
Absolutely. Um, one of my favorite stories from the book,
and I joke all the time that really, this book
is just writing these great truths that my husband said,
and I just wrote it and put my name on it. Um,
but there was a one day in that season that
I talked about of we were kind of beginning to
get out of shelter at home in 2020, but, um,
(41:04):
but we were very much still at home, still had
a four now three and one year old. And I'd
been home all day with them, um, by myself. And
it was just, again, a long day and a lot
of needs and caretaking in that time of life. And, um,
just I want to say to any mom that that's
a hard season and it doesn't it's not like that forever.
(41:25):
But my husband came home and he's so fun, and
he was like, hey, let's take the kids to the pool.
Because we had recently joined a gym here locally. And
I would love to say that the gym and the
workout facility sold me. But really, the snack bar and
the splash pad and the pool sold me. So I
was like, okay, you know, well, let's, let's go. And
that'll be good. And I wanted to be the mom
(41:47):
in that instance so badly. That was joyful and excited
about that experience. I would love to be the mom
that didn't think about how hard that would be and
show up and say, oh, this is kind of a challenge.
I've never been that person. And so I'm automatically thinking, oh,
that means that I've got to get wrestle all of
them into their swimsuits. That means that we already have
(42:07):
three and there's two of us. So we've already moved
from man to man defense to zone defense. And now
we're going to do that by open pools of water.
And so I'm thinking through all those things. And um,
but I don't say any of it out loud. I
just say, okay, you know, and I'm really trying to
force my feelings into being the fun, joyful mom that
I really want to be. And so we go and
we go to the splash pad first, exhaust all the
(42:29):
splash pad. And six minutes later, when we've done that,
they're ready to go to the pool. So we go,
we get in the kiddie pool and everyone has a
good time and you know, it goes well. And then
I recognize we probably need to go before everybody gets hangry.
And so we load up. And I really just was
at war with myself for my feelings in that moment.
(42:51):
I was just even though everybody had a good time
and nobody really knew I was struggling, I just still
felt a certain way and I couldn't really pinpoint that.
So we're almost home and my kids are in the
back seat and they're playing and talking, so they're not
paying attention to us. And I finally was able to like,
pinpoint why am I feeling this way? And I voiced
to my husband, Andrew, you know, I just want to
(43:13):
be the mom that is always fun and loving and kind.
And I thought he would say, oh, you are. And
I would have ignored that because he's nice and I
that wouldn't have, you know, really made me feel better, unfortunately.
But he didn't. He said, do you want a God
that is always fun and loving and kind? And that
kind of took me aback and I thought about it.
(43:34):
And even though I recognized that we have no say
in who God is, I chose to play along and said, well, well,
I want a God that is good. Because somewhere in
my answer, I recognized there's a lot more to God
than just those things. And he said, exactly. And there's
a lot more. And like, spoke directly to that and said,
(43:56):
there's a lot more that's encompassing and good and that's
what you're giving our kids. Well, I can barely tell
that story without.
S4 (44:04):
Crying because.
S1 (44:06):
That was such a kindness to me.
S4 (44:08):
Yes. A very wise husband, I would say. Absolutely. Well, Holly,
this conversation has been very, very good. And I really
believe this book is going to help a lot of
moms who are struggling with this whole issue and often
feeling guilty of not not being a good mom. So
thanks for writing the book, and thanks for being with
(44:30):
us today on the program.
S1 (44:32):
Groom. Thank you so much. I pray that it will
and thank you for having me. It was an honor.
S3 (44:37):
Again, the title of Hally's book, You're Still a Good Mom.
Motherhood surrendered to the one who never fails, even when
you feel you have again. By Hayley Dye d y
e and you can find out more about that at
Building Relationships Again, building relationships.
S4 (44:56):
And next week, help for parents who want to raise
children the way God designed them.
S2 (45:02):
Don't miss the conversation with Sally Clarkson in one week.
Our thanks to Janice backing and Steve Wick for their
work behind the scenes. Building relationships with Doctor Gary Chapman
is a production of Moody Radio in association with Moody Publishers,
a ministry of Moody Bible Institute. Thanks for listening.
Popular Podcasts
Crime Junkie
Does hearing about a true crime case always leave you scouring the internet for the truth behind the story? Dive into your next mystery with Crime Junkie. Every Monday, join your host Ashley Flowers as she unravels all the details of infamous and underreported true crime cases with her best friend Brit Prawat. From cold cases to missing persons and heroes in our community who seek justice, Crime Junkie is your destination for theories and stories you won’t hear anywhere else. Whether you're a seasoned true crime enthusiast or new to the genre, you'll find yourself on the edge of your seat awaiting a new episode every Monday. If you can never get enough true crime... Congratulations, you’ve found your people. Follow to join a community of Crime Junkies! Crime Junkie is presented by audiochuck Media Company.
24/7 News: The Latest
The latest news in 4 minutes updated every hour, every day.
Stuff You Should Know
If you've ever wanted to know about champagne, satanism, the Stonewall Uprising, chaos theory, LSD, El Nino, true crime and Rosa Parks, then look no further. Josh and Chuck have you covered.