February 26, 2025 • 46 mins
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Intro/Outro (00:10):
Welcome to Building the Future with your host, Kevin
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Kevin Horek (01:15):
Welcome back to the show. Today, we have Eddie
Weinworm. He's the CEO atAvvious Future. Eddie, welcome
to the show.
Eddi Weinwurm (01:23):
Hi, Kevin. Thanks for having me.
Kevin Horek (01:26):
Yeah. I'm excited to have you on the show. I think
what you guys are doing isreally innovative and cool. But
before we get into that, maybelet's get to know you a little
bit better and start off withwhere you grew up.
Eddi Weinwurm (01:40):
Yeah. So getting, my my biography is quite
confusing. So, I grew up inVienna, Austria, very classical,
very atypical. I grew up withoutTV, just reading books. It was
quite boring back then.
You know, no Internet, no TV, nobooks. And, but it, I don't
(02:04):
know. It it it teach it it itteach me one thing, like,
curious curiosity needs work.Yeah. You have to Yeah.
Go out and discover instead of,expecting that things get
presented. Yeah. So I had to goto the library every week to,
collect a bunch of books. Else,my life would have been boring.
(02:25):
Yeah.
So, yeah, classical, Europeaneducation background, I would
say.
Kevin Horek (02:33):
Okay. So what did you take, in university and why?
Eddi Weinwurm (02:37):
So, yeah, university. I I I studied
philosophy. So that, was the mymy my father told me, like, as a
as a main subject. You know? Youdo you want to become taxi
driver?
Yeah. And so philosophy, teachme to read, to write, to
(02:59):
understand, and to reflect onthings, especially to doubt
things, doubt their own bias andso on. And, actually, that's
that's that's that's somethingwhich helped me all the time.
Yeah. So I I always was in Ialways was in between two worlds
all my life.
On the one side, the logicalmathematical side, which I
(03:22):
really love, and on the otherside, the creative, parts, the
more fuzzy, yeah. The, yeah, thethe creativeness and, the the
the softness. Yeah. So hardnessand logic and mathematics and
softness on the, communicationside and on the creative side.
(03:44):
So I was always, in betweenthese two sides.
And, so, yeah, philosophy was asubject for me to where could
unite both things because ithas, the one side, it has logic,
and on the other side, it hadall this poststructuralistic,
theories and so on, which arevery, very, creative. Yeah. So
(04:08):
that, that was my, universitytarget.
Kevin Horek (04:12):
Okay. Very cool. So walk us through your career up
until becoming CEO ofAviosFuture, and let's dive into
that.
Eddi Weinwurm (04:24):
Yeah. So, honestly, I I I I'm not often
talking about, this careerbecause it confuses people.
Because, people Okay. Needs tothey they, you know, they want
to put you in boxes. Yeah?
And you
Kevin Horek (04:38):
Carry. Yeah.
Eddi Weinwurm (04:38):
Around box in a in in in in this, yeah, nerd box
or in a creative box or in amanagement box. Yeah? So my
career, I I started, fresh fromuniversity at radio as a
journalist, later switched toTV, made my career there,
directed, directed commercialsand so on. And, at one point, I
(05:05):
don't know. I was getting, youknow, to write software was
always for me, like, for othersgoing to the gym.
Yeah? Because, you know, in thisin this creative world, you're
in this creative world, you'realways, you know, everything is
fuzzy. Yeah. So everydiscussion, you cannot prove
(05:27):
anything. It's it's allspeculation.
Yeah. Why did a commercial failor why did it succeed and so on?
It's it's all relative. Yeah.It's all a big discussion.
And the nice thing on writingcode is actually, when I came
home, I sit down, write somecode because it's so binary.
Either it works or it doesn't.Yeah?
Kevin Horek (05:46):
Yeah. That's fair.
Eddi Weinwurm (05:47):
Yep. This was like going to the gym. And at
some point in Berlin, I washired as a consultant for a TV
station, and they had thischallenge of, getting their
storage managed. And I wassitting in my my big office,
board. I had to attend a fewmeetings that weekend.
(06:09):
That's all. So I sat down andstarted to write this. And this
was actually this started my myfirst company. And very quickly,
I switched from the creativeside and from the the the the,
yeah, visual creative side tothe hardcore tech side. Of
course, it was still connected.
This product was, from, yeah,was handling TV stuff. But yeah.
(06:36):
So that's, where I started myfirst company. And, like, seven
years ago, I, you know, I wasalways interested in AI. Like,
from my childhood on, like,talking with the computer, like,
what we do now, chatting withChechi, it was always my dream.
Yeah.
Kevin Horek (06:54):
So That's awesome.
Eddi Weinwurm (06:56):
Yeah. So, even at university, I I took some
subjects back then about AI andso on. So, yeah, so I grew. This
company, it was quitesuccessful, but I I always
wanted to go into the AIdirection. And my partner,
Spectan, seven years ago, didbelieve in this issue.
You know, there was Interesting.AI will never be I can never and
(07:19):
AI blah blah. So yeah. And Ireally had this problem, that I
I I didn't want to administer acompany. I I'm a creator.
Yeah?
Kevin Horek (07:30):
Sure. Yep. I get it.
Eddi Weinwurm (07:32):
So I I stepped down as CEO, and sold my shares
and focused on AI beforeeverybody else jumped on the
train. Yeah. And it was quitedifficult, back then to to to
convince people to join and soon. Yeah. And now this, big AI
explosion is happening, and wewere prepared, with our
(07:55):
research, with our technology totake off from day one.
And yeah. So it's it's funnybecause, you know, all these,
people who always doubt, AI andvery, very, well, laughing about
it, they are now AI experts.Over there, they became AI
experts because they can writesome prompts. Yeah. Mhmm.
(08:17):
So what we do in in ourcompanies, we we we do really
hardcore AI research, and, yeah,because we have the knowledge to
do it. Yeah.
Kevin Horek (08:30):
Okay. So let's dive a little bit deeper into how
does it actually work, and howdo companies leverage your
technology?
Eddi Weinwurm (08:38):
Yeah. So, our big technology is to, think against
the grain or go against thegrain because, it's, you know,
every AI these days is happeningin the clouds. So, all these
models are cloud APIs. You know,when you chat with, chat GPT or
(09:03):
you have some Google APIs, it'sall happening in the cloud. And
this this is actually the easyway to go because if you want to
improve your model, you just addnew parameters.
You make it larger and larger.So, AI is currently, like,
exploding in size, and everymodel is is bigger and bigger.
That's the easy way to go. But,what what what I discovered
(09:24):
early on is, like, you know,cloud is nice and great, but in
a lot of lot of cases, you don'twant to use cloud services
because you have really sensibledata. There there are use cases
where there's not even anInternet connection.
You know? It's it's like a brickfirewall air gapped. Yeah. So,
(09:49):
of course, there is also in thiscase, you also want to use AI.
So what our first product, is,for example, Caravan, which I
placed in the market where Icome from because I really
understand this market verywell.
It's, audio visual AI. Yeah. Soused by, for example, major
(10:13):
Hollywood studios. Why it'simportant for them? Because
their production environmentswhere the edits, the movies
Kevin Horek (10:22):
Right.
Eddi Weinwurm (10:23):
Is completed. They have cameras watching the
editors. Mhmm. They record thescreens of the computers and so
on. They have a a a securitylike the NSA.
Yeah? So, of course, it'simpossible there to connect to
the Internet or do anything,like, with this big model. So,
(10:43):
we came up with solutions whichcan run, the build this, very
deep, machine learning, stuffand tools, really on prem
isolated from the Internet, allself contained in hardware we
ship. So that that they don'tneed to use, really, like, a
(11:06):
supercomputer there, but it canrun on on on normal hardware.
And and that's the success we'recurrently having.
Yeah? So media production, filmproduction, TV studios, but
also, I don't know, big retailchains, which which use it for
customer interviews and so on.So everywhere where you want to
(11:29):
keep the stuff safe and secureand, and and, on premise. Yeah.
That's where we fit in becauseit was really hard engineering
to make the models a lot bigger,but smaller.
Sure. While, getting them, yeah,optimized.
Kevin Horek (11:50):
No. That's that's very cool. So how do okay. So,
like, if I'm in a movie studioand I'm editing, for example,
how am I using your technologyin that process? Or, like, how
do I, like, how do I leverageyour tech with we you know, in
as a customer?
Eddi Weinwurm (12:07):
For example, the simplest, the the simplest
example is, you want to editthis interview now.
Kevin Horek (12:15):
K.
Eddi Weinwurm (12:15):
So, and then you remembered I told something
about my childhood, in Vienna.
Kevin Horek (12:22):
Okay. Yeah.
Eddi Weinwurm (12:23):
You have no idea how I formulated this. Yeah?
What words are used? Yeah. So Sowe're talking about Vienna now
again, but probably that's notwhat you're looking for.
Yeah? So, there you can searchwith this context of our search,
and we are talking aboutsearches in really, really huge
archives. Yeah. We have, forexample, years of archive or
(12:47):
fifty years. Yeah.
Kevin Horek (12:48):
Right.
Eddi Weinwurm (12:49):
Searching there really with all this soft skill,
like an assistant would for afootage by describing it, but
describing it like, really,like, an emotional phrases.
Yeah. Not what, will happen,what you really want to see, but
what feeling it should representor searching in in in
interviews. That's, for example,one fractional idea we have.
(13:11):
Yeah.
And, you know, when you search,for a fast car, you usually in
in in media production, you wantto illustrate something, and you
don't want the fast car parkedin a clip in front of a
restaurant. Yeah.
Kevin Horek (13:28):
Right. Yeah.
Eddi Weinwurm (13:29):
Yeah. So being able to search with, like, a
human description, that's onemajor feature we have. And then,
of course, we have featureswhich just help the editors.
They help, like, to predict howthis story can visually
continue.
Kevin Horek (13:47):
Okay.
Eddi Weinwurm (13:48):
And then you have different options, and you don't
have to, you you don't have to,like, go through your material
and find the right footage,when, the AI can already help
you. So, you know, that that'sreally, there's a hot topic in
media production, of course,that AI takes jobs. And, we
(14:09):
really take care in our productdevelopment that we develop
something which is, actuallytaking away the boring part.
Kevin Horek (14:17):
Yeah.
Eddi Weinwurm (14:18):
So, you know, like, when you edit this
interview to shuttle around andto search for certain, it's
super boring. Yeah. Superannoying. Yeah. So we, have a
lot of tools now included, whichjust take away the boring part
that the creatives can reallyfocus on on on on on what's fun.
(14:40):
Yeah.
Kevin Horek (14:42):
No. Yeah. I I % agree. Like, I've been using AI
for basically everything thesedays. Right?
And it gets you a certain partof the way maybe down the road
of an idea, but you really needto execute it or you have to
constantly, like, walk itthrough step by step to do
certain tasks for you. And it'snot really any different than
(15:05):
starting with a template backYeah. Like, before AI. Like,
it's just the next evolution ofthat. And I think you're right.
It gets rid of those, like, miniminimal or, like, kinda boring
parts of the job that I don'twanna do. And well, nobody wants
to do. Right? So I can focus onthe, like, the the better and
more fun stuff. Right?
And I think we're so far awayfrom it really eliminating
(15:28):
people's jobs in my opinion.Sounds like you kinda share the
the same, opinion.
Eddi Weinwurm (15:35):
Yeah. The I mean, the the the, I see there are two
approaches to it. Yeah. Ofcourse, you can create AI which
acts as like a person and whichis let them in competition to
you. Yeah.
Yeah. But there is this otherperspective which I prefer, and
that's where I also develop myproducts too. It's what I call
symbiotic AI. Like, it's it'senhancing you. Yeah.
(15:59):
It's advancing you and yourabilities that you can even
compete with an AI, and and youcan compete on the market. Yeah.
So these are two differentaspects. Of course, some
companies will replace chopswith this, really acting AI, but
I think if we use AI clever, andand and develop a clever AI,
(16:22):
which can be really built at thesymbiosis with us. Yeah.
Enhancing our perception,enhancing our thoughts, and
enhancing our expression. Yeah.I think that's really what we
should aim for, and that's,really what I can recommend, to
(16:42):
to everyone. Yes. Start usingAI.
Start using it to be really, ina symbiotic relationship and get
support and get the best of it.Yeah.
Kevin Horek (16:55):
Yeah. No. No. That makes makes a lot of sense. So
do you wanna maybe give us a fewother use cases in other
industries of how people areleveraging your technology?
Eddi Weinwurm (17:06):
Yeah. So, of course, we said we started in
this one vertical in the mediaand entertainment industry, and
then we soon discovered, oh,this problem, yeah, it it exists
in a lot of markets. Yeah. And,honestly, you know, everywhere
where you deal with tradesecrets, internal communication,
(17:30):
contracts, and so on, that'swhere you don't want to send it
to a third party. Because notthat you don't need to trust a
third party, but, you know, itit it all can be hacked, all can
be abused and misused.
And, you know, you have a lot ofregulations. We have, for
example, in Europe, this GDPRdata protection and so on, and
(17:50):
this all is a is anadministrative administrative
hell if you if you reallyinteract with third party
services. So yeah. But what whatwe offer, is, for example, you
know, in in in the healthindustry, you know, patient
datas are the most sensible datayou can have. Yeah.
Kevin Horek (18:09):
Yeah.
Eddi Weinwurm (18:09):
And, there, of course, the AI can be quite
useful or, like, monitoring ofof a facility. Yeah. You you
have a camera which is watcheswhich watching which is watching
your top secret research lab. Doyou actually want to livestream
(18:30):
this? Yeah.
Of course not. Yeah. So, Ithink, you know, with every new
technology, we have these twophases. The first phase is,
yeah, it flies. This this,Wright brothers, okay, it flies.
And we don't care the first carused. I don't know how many
(18:51):
gallons. Whatever. So we didn'tcare. But soon after, then the
phase of, engineering andoptimization starts because then
it's, the question, okay.
We we cannot just pump more gasinto it. Yeah? Yeah. Or or
really build I don't know. Nownow now we're building atomic
(19:12):
power plants just to run theseAI models.
Yeah?
Kevin Horek (19:15):
Yeah.
Eddi Weinwurm (19:16):
So we should start to to to go into this
engineering and say, okay. Howcan we optimize it, that it's
really interesting for business?
Kevin Horek (19:24):
Yeah. Interesting.
Eddi Weinwurm (19:26):
Of course, in this optimization, we can also
go further and say, okay. Can weoptimize it that much that we
can run it on prem on location?Yeah.
Kevin Horek (19:35):
No. Fair enough. So how do you basically get in
front of a customer and thenfigure out what their needs are?
Because that health care spacethat you just obviously, there's
a million things you could do inthe healthcare space. Right?
So how do you, like, kind ofbecause people are I think
(19:55):
people are still scared of AI,and then you're going into
something where it's, like,very, like, patient data.
There's a bunch of laws aroundthis stuff. So, like, how do you
go in, sell your services tothese, you know, big
organizations and governments,and then still be able to
create, like, a product out ofit?
Eddi Weinwurm (20:14):
Yeah. Yeah.
Kevin Horek (20:15):
And service.
Eddi Weinwurm (20:16):
So, honestly, it it it it we get approached. You
know? The people see what we donow now in the media business or
what we achieved in the mediabusiness. Yeah. And for example,
we have one big retail chainhere in The US, One of the
biggest, actually.
We started to use our product inthe media production because
(20:39):
they have in house mediaproduction, social media
production and so on. And then,for example, the customer
research passes by and says, oh,what's this nice AI? We also
want it. Because, you know, wehave this endless Zoom
interviews with with withcustomers where we check the
market trends, and then we wantto search, okay, peanut butter
recipes or whatever. Yeah?
(21:00):
So, you know, you want to thiscustomer interviews where they
check really the the thecustomer values. They are very
they have to be very openbecause you want to have the
customer talk freely. So, forexample, then then the approach
is, yeah, we this is a goodidea. So it it's currently
working this way because, youknow, a lot of companies are
(21:22):
missing the expertise. We aretalking now about chief AI
officer and so on, and then theyare these these are future jobs.
Yeah. So the they're they'rereally also huge companies lack,
the the the real expertise, andthen they often hire some young
college kids. Our script kiddieswould think, okay. I download
(21:45):
some models from Hugging Faceand I have my product ready, but
they never experiencedengineering and how much it
really what's the differencebetween a prototype and a
prototype?
Kevin Horek (21:55):
Yeah. Yeah. Totally. Interesting.
Eddi Weinwurm (21:59):
I mean, this really surprises me because I'm
I'm I'm talking with hugecompanies. They sometimes really
lack, understanding about thewhole topic. Yeah?
Kevin Horek (22:14):
So how do you bridge that gap, though, and how
do you start educating themabout AI and what they can and
can't do with it? Becausethere's so much misinformation
out there about what AI can dotoday, what the promise people
are hoping for can do in thefuture. So, like, how are you
(22:35):
actually working with thesecompanies to actually say, like,
here's what we can do, andhere's hopefully what we can
maybe do in the future? Yeah.
Eddi Weinwurm (22:44):
Yeah. So, you know, when we have a a ready,
you know, a really finishedproduct like, caravana in the
meat industry, it's it's Ialways prefer to make, you know,
these POC installations, whichis proof of concept. You know,
they get something delivered,and then I say, oh, but, you
know, don't upload as techniciantest material. Let the end users
(23:08):
play with it.
Ad (23:09):
Yeah. Then it's solved.
Eddi Weinwurm (23:10):
Then it then I then I have it solved because
the end users don't want to giveit out of hands again. Yeah. So
I get them hooked on it. Yeah.That's that's that's actually
when you have really goodproduct, the the best approach
to say, okay.
We ship a unit there. You weinstall it, and it's it's an end
and then it's sold. Yeah.
Kevin Horek (23:31):
Okay. So are you building, like, a physical box
then that houses yourtechnology? Is that what you
just kinda said?
Eddi Weinwurm (23:39):
Yeah. Yeah. So we don't build them ourselves. Of
course,
Kevin Horek (23:42):
we have
Eddi Weinwurm (23:42):
partners who do this. Okay. And but, of course,
it gets, preinstalled. That'swhat we call an AI node. And the
nice thing on this AI node isyou can cluster them.
So, if, if the the the customerswant to use this in other
sectors or want to expand theirdataset or whatever, they can
buy additional, units and linearclusters. Yeah. So we want to
(24:07):
keep it as simple. That's ourgoal, as simple as connecting to
an API. And, I don't know if youplayed around with these APIs of
of Yeah.
The AI and so on. They're quiteeasy to implement. So
Kevin Horek (24:20):
Yeah.
Eddi Weinwurm (24:21):
Our goal is to to to to to come to a similar,
yeah, setup. You know, it it'splug and play. Of course, it
needs a bit of setup, currently.But, in the end, yeah, it's it
should be as simple as possible.Yeah.
That's that's the reason why wereally ship this as boxes. Yeah.
Kevin Horek (24:43):
Okay. So I wanna dive a little bit deeper into
that. So you called it Carolone? Yeah. Okay.
So and and what does thatactually do? Like, walk us
through from what it like,becoming a customer to actually
getting it and using it and thewhole setup? Because I'm curious
to know how the hardware andsoftware kind of fit into that.
Eddi Weinwurm (25:05):
Yeah. Yeah. So, most usually, that it works this
way that, you have some assets,you have some archives or you
have some production assets.Depends. For example, you have a
Netflix show documentary.
You you worked the film forthree years. So, you you install
(25:30):
our appliance, connect it to thestorage. AI automatically starts
to, analyze the storage, startsto watch these, clips, the
assets which are there. And andthen you can just, have a user
interface, which is veryintuitive where the, you know,
the greatest then can quiteeasily work search for them
(25:52):
getting, get, I don't know,recommendation how to continue
stuff and so on. So, that's alsoagain, you know, we want to keep
it as easy to, yeah, to run.
Of course, there are then usecases when we go really into big
(26:12):
installations, like, we we didnow for a major science fiction
franchise, training on theiruniverse.
Kevin Horek (26:21):
Okay.
Eddi Weinwurm (26:22):
Our models really learn to identify spaceship by
parts or planets by their, treesand so on. Yeah.
Kevin Horek (26:29):
That's cool.
Eddi Weinwurm (26:30):
Yeah. That's, you know, for for for my, engineers
and, data analyst. It was reallyfun because they love it. Yeah.
Kevin Horek (26:40):
Sure. Yeah. Totally. Yeah. That's cool.
It
Eddi Weinwurm (26:43):
it was highly motivating them. Yeah. So but,
that's an additional services weprovide. Yeah. So because, as I
said, we are really these modelswe are having, we're really
developing them ourselves.
We are training them ourselves.We know how to to to to come up
with new things. Yeah. So, evenif they want to, have new,
(27:09):
functionalities, AIfunctionalities implemented, we
sit down with our engineers, andwe we come up with solutions. So
yeah.
So, we offer more than just thisplug and play box. If they
really want, we can integratethis into existing
infrastructures and so on or,come up with custom models,
(27:30):
custom training, and so on.
Kevin Horek (27:32):
Okay. No. That makes sense. So the hardware box
itself, you you mentioned youpartner with people. Like, is it
basically just like a Linuxcomputer or or kinda what's in
it exactly?
Eddi Weinwurm (27:47):
Yep. So, it's it's it's a Linux box. Yeah. So
it's a Linux box with a strong,GPU in the end. Yeah.
Kevin Horek (27:56):
Sure.
Eddi Weinwurm (27:57):
So, you know, we we we we want to keep this also
as efficient and, you know, as,yeah, as affordable as possible.
We don't you know, it it's forthe customer in the end, it's
much cheaper to buy this. Evenwe would also offer this, like,
(28:19):
as a as a as a service. Yeah?But it's it's much cheaper to
buy this than to go into thisuse all these APIs because, you
know, these cloud services,they, the costs, they are
really, significant.
Yeah. Yeah. Now imagine you havefifty years of archive. Yeah?
Kevin Horek (28:36):
Yeah.
Eddi Weinwurm (28:38):
Sending all this, the sunburn is gets really
expensive. Yeah.
Kevin Horek (28:43):
So, you know, I I understand agree with you. So
roughly, what's the cost of abox?
Eddi Weinwurm (28:49):
I'd say that between 40 and 50 k.
Kevin Horek (28:52):
Okay. That
Eddi Weinwurm (28:53):
that's that's the starting point. Yeah. And, I
don't know if we have customerswhich then have, like, really a
lot of these boxes, but
Kevin Horek (29:01):
Right.
Eddi Weinwurm (29:02):
We really build them so that they are easily to
cluster, easy, comfortable, and,hot swappable and stuff like
this. Yeah? Because we reallythat's that's the thing. Yeah.
We want to bring AI down fromthe, yeah, it flies to, okay,
here it it runs.
(29:22):
Yeah.
Kevin Horek (29:23):
Yeah. No. That that's really cool. So walk us
through maybe some I see on yourwebsite you have, some
government use cases. Do youwanna maybe give us some of
those as well?
Eddi Weinwurm (29:36):
Yeah. That's no. The the government use cases,
they they are now, some projectswe are having, but they are not
really like customers yet. Butit's quite complicated. Sure.
I can imagine. Bureaucracysquared. But I don't want to
(29:58):
complain. But the thing is, likemost governments, they're really
limited in AI news. And thiscreates a huge imbalance.
For example, you know, patentlawyers, they are now allowed to
use ChatGPT officially. Yeah. Sothey they they they research,
(30:20):
okay, what does the what does,do other patents say about this
and so on? And, you know, theexaminers, they're not allowed
to use it.
Kevin Horek (30:32):
Right.
Eddi Weinwurm (30:32):
So this creates a huge imbalance. Yeah. And then
and this is in many sectors.Yeah. Like, it's it's even like,
I don't know, for tax or for foreverything.
Yeah. Usually, governmentagencies, are not yet allowed to
use it. Yeah. So there we see,of course, the market. Yeah.
(30:54):
The government itself wants toinvest now. I don't know if
you're here. It is about 10, ahundred billions and so on
because they see this problem.But, you know, if the government
built something, it takes sometime to it's really running and,
yeah. So, yeah, these are these,yeah, the, different verticals
(31:17):
we see, where we fit in.
And in the end, we want to,expand to, yeah, to a lot of
sectors. Also, which is easy touse, you know, we ship your
hardware, you plug it in, andyou get a product. Yeah.
Kevin Horek (31:32):
No. That's that's really cool. So I wanna talk a
little bit about what can youactually do with AI, and what
are your kind of thoughts aroundAI right now? Because, like, I
wanted some of the gadgets thatwere, you know, like, came out
last year when they werepromised, you know, a bunch of
(31:55):
stuff, like, I really wantedsome of that stuff to be true.
And I think the perfect exampleis, like, the rabbit r one.
Like, I wanted that thing to bewhat they said it was. Yeah. I
pre ordered one. I got it, andit's the biggest piece of
garbage, and it's sitting on mydesk collecting dust.
Eddi Weinwurm (32:13):
Yeah.
Kevin Horek (32:13):
And so to me, that was the perfect example of
something that, like, I wantedit to be true, but it's
completely nowhere near what wasdemoed on stage.
Eddi Weinwurm (32:22):
Yeah.
Kevin Horek (32:23):
And I think a lot of people kind of have that.
Like, they're, like, they'reterrified of it because of,
like, what's promised, but thereality is so disconnected. So
can you maybe talk about wherewe are? Because you've been in
the space a long time and and
Eddi Weinwurm (32:39):
what your thoughts are. So that's actually
the the future vision I havewith the company because, you
know, we have Moore's law thatthe hardware gets more and more
performant.
Kevin Horek (32:49):
Yeah.
Eddi Weinwurm (32:49):
And this is now especially through in in all
these, GPU applications. And onthe other side, we are working
against this because we try tomake this thing smaller. And I
think one big problem wecurrently have, and even if I
use, like, chat GPT, the voicechat, Yep. You know, you will
have this really awkward delayof replies, and you're sharing
(33:12):
the resources, this model withmillions of others. So you can
sometimes wait really long forthe reply.
And, actually, you know what Iwould what I'm dreaming of
glasses, which where I'm whileI'm looking point at different
things, like see, or even, like,darken down some parts of the
vision and, enhance, the pointwhere I'm where I should look
(33:35):
for. So, you know, this part ofAI, which is really, like,
responsive Yeah. And, andtherefore can just run on your
local device. Yeah. So, I thinkthat's that's a lot of, that's a
huge problem in the experience.
Yeah. Because Yeah. If I havethe smart glasses, which I
really love. Yeah. And I reallywish I had it, like, soon in a
(33:58):
working.
Right? Yep. Yeah. Yeah. But thisresponsiveness and you you're
developing UX.
Yeah. You're a UX developer. Youknow how important
responsiveness is. Yeah.
Kevin Horek (34:09):
%. It it it's almost like the number one
thing.
Eddi Weinwurm (34:13):
Yeah. So and and there I see the crossing point.
It's also a question of privacybecause, you know, when I have
this symbiotic what I callsymbiotic AI, I want to have it
always on. Yeah? Yeah.
It's like I don't want to givemy brain when I when I enter the
house, I don't want to put mybrain on the on the, yeah, on
the cupboard.
Kevin Horek (34:33):
So
Eddi Weinwurm (34:35):
but I also don't want to stream what's happening
in my bedroom, you know. Yeah.And there we again at this
point, yeah, but we say, okay,it's nice to talk with Chat GPT
about business and whatever,but, you know, when it gets
really about private issues andwhen maybe really this AI starts
to watch my daily life and it'son twenty four seven Yeah. Want
(34:57):
to have it on me. Yeah.
Kevin Horek (35:00):
Yeah. Yeah. That's interesting. Well, the other
thing too is I think you alsodon't like, especially if you're
wearing glasses, you don't wantthem like, again, it's kind of
like Google Glass was, like, thefirst kinda thing with that. But
if you wore those out in public,everybody was, like, so
uncomfortable.
Right? And you also looked kindaridiculous. So you need
(35:23):
something that looks just likeregular glasses. And, obviously,
some of this like, some of thethe amount of actual surface
area where you can even stick abattery is basically
nonexistent. Right?
Unless you connect a cable to abattery pack like kind of the
Vision Pro does. So we're kinda,like, it's we're in a weird
place, right, where the tech'snot really there yet compared to
(35:46):
work with the hardware.
Eddi Weinwurm (35:47):
But there is a lot of, investment going on in
this sector, and I think we willbe there. And I I don't know. I
I wish you know, I I I reallybad in remembering names, and
I'm on a lot of conventions.Yeah. I always need my assistant
next to me, which whispers in myear, oh, this is not Tom,
whatever, and asking me abouthis, children.
(36:08):
Yeah. Right. So having somethinglike this Yeah. Of assistant, I
would love it. Yeah.
And and, you know, just a littleplug in the ear, which is
transparent to to to the normalaudio and gives me some,
enriches my perception. Yeah?Yeah. This alone would would be
(36:29):
amazing.
Kevin Horek (36:31):
Interesting. Yeah. No. I % agree. So as somebody
that's building hardware for AI,like,
Eddi Weinwurm (36:41):
how
Kevin Horek (36:41):
and I know I've seen what, like, kind of
Facebook and Meta are doing withtheir glasses and the snap
glasses and and whatnot. And allthese like, I played with the
Vision Pro. Like, how soon doyou actually think we are out
from that? Are we three years,five years, ten years? Do you
know roughly?
Eddi Weinwurm (37:02):
I would say, you know, it depends what what you
what you demand. Yeah? So if youwant to if you want to really
run a a GPT four model on yourphone, it this takes at least
more than ten years. Yeah?
Kevin Horek (37:19):
Okay. What
Eddi Weinwurm (37:21):
we do for example, what's our trick? Why
how we get our AI smaller is,because we are using compounds
instead of monolithic models. Itmeans, like, for example, this
media solution we have there,like, now over 10 different
models.
Kevin Horek (37:35):
Okay.
Eddi Weinwurm (37:37):
Which makes sense because, you know, when you ask,
about, cookie recipe, Yeah. Justto pass through all these layers
with all this information aboutquantum physics, Shakespeare,
and so on just to give you thethe right amount of sugar to
add. Yeah?
Kevin Horek (37:52):
Right.
Eddi Weinwurm (37:53):
Waste. Yeah. So, we use, for example, expert
models. Yeah.
Kevin Horek (37:58):
Okay.
Eddi Weinwurm (37:58):
I plan on models, which, or routing models, which
say, okay. This model ishandling this and that. Yeah. So
climate engineering in that.And, what I see earlier is in
hybrid.
Yeah? Hybrid. So that you say,okay. You have some models
running locally.
Kevin Horek (38:16):
Right.
Eddi Weinwurm (38:16):
And then you have, if you it's really the
heavy lifting, reasoning, itkinda happen in the cloud.
Something like that.
Kevin Horek (38:25):
This. Okay. Kinda what Apple's trying to do with
Apple intelligence and failingmiserably at it. Yes.
Eddi Weinwurm (38:29):
Kind of. But, that's that's what I what I I
meant before. You know? It'seasy to build a prototype, and
it's fucking difficult to tobuild a product. Yeah.
Kevin Horek (38:43):
Yeah. No. That's that's fair. And it's
interesting because, like, if abig company like that is
struggling to build, you know,simple things, then, you know,
like, but the caveat to thatthough is you can build some
pretty incredible things with itif you kind of walk it step by
step through, you know, prompts.Right?
Eddi Weinwurm (39:03):
Yeah. Yeah. So I did end it. It's it's all
engineering, and you can youknow, a lot of companies are
now, like, you know, the thing,like, okay. One, woman needs
nine months to to give birth toit, to a baby, let's hire nine
women and get it done in onemonth.
Yeah? So that's that's the rightphilosophy philosophy. Yeah.
(39:26):
Yeah. So just, throwing a lot ofof clever scientists onto a
problem, doesn't give you aproduct.
Yeah.
Kevin Horek (39:35):
Interesting. Yeah.
Eddi Weinwurm (39:36):
They are more reacting than acting. Yeah. And
our advantages, because westarted seven years ago with all
this, you know, we are acting.And we were the first to, for
example, introduce this semanticsearch, in in in the media
sector. Yeah?
Yeah. You know, before everybodyelse. And all the others, the
big companies like Adobe and soon, they had to react. And
Kevin Horek (39:59):
Yep.
Eddi Weinwurm (40:00):
And that's the state of the industry. And then
you get something like, youknow, that these products which
are half baked monsters. Yeah.
Kevin Horek (40:10):
Yeah. That's that's interesting. What what about
the, the AGI stuff that we keepreading about? What are your
thoughts around that?
Eddi Weinwurm (40:21):
AGI, like a general intelligent.
Kevin Horek (40:25):
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
Eddi Weinwurm (40:29):
I don't know. I if you ask me as a philosopher
Yeah. Okay. No. I think it'scoming.
Yeah. And I think, we humans arenot so unique. Our language is
not so unique. You know, thatthat's that's really the the
weird thing that, languagemodels were much quicker,
(40:55):
trained and then much quicker itdid show up much quicker in
research than, all these imagemodels. Yeah.
We really understand visually orrobots are still bumping against
stuff. Yeah? And language modelswriting academic papers. Yeah?
So we we we understand thatmaybe, yeah, of course, we are
the best, which is known to usas humans.
(41:18):
But, where should the why shouldthere be a limit, of of
intelligence which can't getbetter than us? And I'm thinking
I I'm I'm thinking, we'reheading there. Yeah? And,
probably, you know, with thenext generation of, OpenAI
(41:38):
models, we will have really,PhD, reasoning. And yeah.
So we have Interesting. If it'sgood or bad, I don't ask me.
It's, weird. I didn't I didn'tknow when I when I had Yeah.
When I had this wish, I want totalk with my computer.
(42:01):
I didn't expect this. Yeah.That's, yeah. But I'm living
this dream actually. Yeah.
Kevin Horek (42:06):
No. That's that's really cool. Do you have
thoughts or advice for people tomaybe stay relevant in their
careers or things that they cando to make themselves more
valuable? Because I especiallyin tech right now, it's it seems
to be coming out of the doom andgloom a bit. But do you have any
advice for people that are maybelooking to get into tech or are
(42:27):
kind of panicked about all thisstuff in tech?
Eddi Weinwurm (42:30):
So, my advice is, the the wise, advice I give to
my developers, use AI as much aspossible. And, yeah, it's I, you
know, that's I know softwaredevelopment from before, AI, and
I know it now. And for me, thedifference is, we are just much
(42:52):
faster. We can achieve much morein the time. Yeah?
That's Yeah. Changed. But myteam size didn't change. Yeah?
So I don't know how it will bein the future.
I I don't know. But maybe,maybe, AI plus human is still of
more value than AI withouthuman. Yeah?
Kevin Horek (43:14):
So I I think so.
Eddi Weinwurm (43:16):
Yeah. So having having this human creativity and
maybe, even human, weirdness ofcreativity. And there is again
where, you know, I mentioned inthe beginning, I'm in between
this world of creativity andmathematics. Yeah? Yeah.
So, having this weirdness. Yeah?Additionally, as an input,
(43:37):
maybe, helps, yeah, makes ourthe the the our product, what we
produce when we work together insynergy with AI, maybe this
little better that we can beatpure AI. Yeah. So I I can just
recommend every everyone keep upto date, with AI.
(44:00):
Use it, learn to use it, and,learn to handle it, yeah, to
guide it. Yeah? And Yeah.
Kevin Horek (44:11):
No. I I think that's actually really good
advice. So other you'vementioned chat g b t. Is there
any other AI tools that that youfind useful in your day to day
that you'd recommend people tryout?
Eddi Weinwurm (44:24):
No. For from I don't know. For me, I'm lazy in
this way. I'm using the newestmodel, the one, and that's
mostly what I use as a sparingpartner. As I said, I I, you
know, I learned to write.
Yeah. Yeah. That's was my jobback then. So I'm writing, but I
(44:48):
I'm I'm using it to getfeedback.
Kevin Horek (44:51):
Totally.
Eddi Weinwurm (44:52):
Using it as a sparing partner for ideas, that
stuff. Yeah. So, I think weshould just that's also what
what I recommend to think morecreative what you can do with
it. Yeah. And not just, like, dothis for me, but maybe ask me
something.
Yeah? Maybe make me make mereflect my buyers I'm having.
(45:18):
Because of you know, inbusiness, for example, as a CEO,
I have to make decisions. Yeah.And
Kevin Horek (45:23):
I Yeah.
Eddi Weinwurm (45:24):
Else. Yeah. So turning it around. Yeah. That's,
for example, what else I canrecommend.
So be creative also in the wayyou use it.
Kevin Horek (45:36):
Yeah. No. I I think that's that's actually really
good advice, but we're kindacoming to the end of the show.
So how about we close withmentioning where people can get
more information about yourself,obvious future, and any other
links you wanna mention?
Eddi Weinwurm (45:49):
Yeah. Obviously, yeah. On ObviousFuture.com.
Yeah. One word,ObviousFuture.com.
Or at me on LinkedIn, EddieWineworm. And, yeah. I'm always,
happy to yeah. As you see, I'mI'm always happy to talk about
(46:10):
it because I It's good. Aboutthis.
Yeah.
Kevin Horek (46:13):
Oh, very cool, Eddie. Well, I really appreciate
you taking the time out of yourday to be on the show, and I
look forward to keeping in touchwith you, and have a good rest
of your day.
Eddi Weinwurm (46:20):
Thank you.
Kevin Horek (46:21):
Thank you. K. Bye.
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Kevin Horek (01:15):
Welcome back to the show. Today, we have Eddie
Weinworm. He's the CEO atAvvious Future. Eddie, welcome
to the show.
Eddi Weinwurm (01:23):
Hi, Kevin. Thanks for having me.
Kevin Horek (01:26):
Yeah. I'm excited to have you on the show. I think
what you guys are doing isreally innovative and cool. But
before we get into that, maybelet's get to know you a little
bit better and start off withwhere you grew up.
Eddi Weinwurm (01:40):
Yeah. So getting, my my biography is quite
confusing. So, I grew up inVienna, Austria, very classical,
very atypical. I grew up withoutTV, just reading books. It was
quite boring back then.
You know, no Internet, no TV, nobooks. And, but it, I don't
(02:04):
know. It it it teach it it itteach me one thing, like,
curious curiosity needs work.Yeah. You have to Yeah.
Go out and discover instead of,expecting that things get
presented. Yeah. So I had to goto the library every week to,
collect a bunch of books. Else,my life would have been boring.
(02:25):
Yeah.
So, yeah, classical, Europeaneducation background, I would
say.
Kevin Horek (02:33):
Okay. So what did you take, in university and why?
Eddi Weinwurm (02:37):
So, yeah, university. I I I studied
philosophy. So that, was the mymy my father told me, like, as a
as a main subject. You know? Youdo you want to become taxi
driver?
Yeah. And so philosophy, teachme to read, to write, to
(02:59):
understand, and to reflect onthings, especially to doubt
things, doubt their own bias andso on. And, actually, that's
that's that's that's somethingwhich helped me all the time.
Yeah. So I I always was in Ialways was in between two worlds
all my life.
On the one side, the logicalmathematical side, which I
(03:22):
really love, and on the otherside, the creative, parts, the
more fuzzy, yeah. The, yeah, thethe creativeness and, the the
the softness. Yeah. So hardnessand logic and mathematics and
softness on the, communicationside and on the creative side.
(03:44):
So I was always, in betweenthese two sides.
And, so, yeah, philosophy was asubject for me to where could
unite both things because ithas, the one side, it has logic,
and on the other side, it hadall this poststructuralistic,
theories and so on, which arevery, very, creative. Yeah. So
(04:08):
that, that was my, universitytarget.
Kevin Horek (04:12):
Okay. Very cool. So walk us through your career up
until becoming CEO ofAviosFuture, and let's dive into
that.
Eddi Weinwurm (04:24):
Yeah. So, honestly, I I I I'm not often
talking about, this careerbecause it confuses people.
Because, people Okay. Needs tothey they, you know, they want
to put you in boxes. Yeah?
And you
Kevin Horek (04:38):
Carry. Yeah.
Eddi Weinwurm (04:38):
Around box in a in in in in this, yeah, nerd box
or in a creative box or in amanagement box. Yeah? So my
career, I I started, fresh fromuniversity at radio as a
journalist, later switched toTV, made my career there,
directed, directed commercialsand so on. And, at one point, I
(05:05):
don't know. I was getting, youknow, to write software was
always for me, like, for othersgoing to the gym.
Yeah? Because, you know, in thisin this creative world, you're
in this creative world, you'realways, you know, everything is
fuzzy. Yeah. So everydiscussion, you cannot prove
(05:27):
anything. It's it's allspeculation.
Yeah. Why did a commercial failor why did it succeed and so on?
It's it's all relative. Yeah.It's all a big discussion.
And the nice thing on writingcode is actually, when I came
home, I sit down, write somecode because it's so binary.
Either it works or it doesn't.Yeah?
Kevin Horek (05:46):
Yeah. That's fair.
Eddi Weinwurm (05:47):
Yep. This was like going to the gym. And at
some point in Berlin, I washired as a consultant for a TV
station, and they had thischallenge of, getting their
storage managed. And I wassitting in my my big office,
board. I had to attend a fewmeetings that weekend.
(06:09):
That's all. So I sat down andstarted to write this. And this
was actually this started my myfirst company. And very quickly,
I switched from the creativeside and from the the the the,
yeah, visual creative side tothe hardcore tech side. Of
course, it was still connected.
This product was, from, yeah,was handling TV stuff. But yeah.
(06:36):
So that's, where I started myfirst company. And, like, seven
years ago, I, you know, I wasalways interested in AI. Like,
from my childhood on, like,talking with the computer, like,
what we do now, chatting withChechi, it was always my dream.
Yeah.
Kevin Horek (06:54):
So That's awesome.
Eddi Weinwurm (06:56):
Yeah. So, even at university, I I took some
subjects back then about AI andso on. So, yeah, so I grew. This
company, it was quitesuccessful, but I I always
wanted to go into the AIdirection. And my partner,
Spectan, seven years ago, didbelieve in this issue.
You know, there was Interesting.AI will never be I can never and
(07:19):
AI blah blah. So yeah. And Ireally had this problem, that I
I I didn't want to administer acompany. I I'm a creator.
Yeah?
Kevin Horek (07:30):
Sure. Yep. I get it.
Eddi Weinwurm (07:32):
So I I stepped down as CEO, and sold my shares
and focused on AI beforeeverybody else jumped on the
train. Yeah. And it was quitedifficult, back then to to to
convince people to join and soon. Yeah. And now this, big AI
explosion is happening, and wewere prepared, with our
(07:55):
research, with our technology totake off from day one.
And yeah. So it's it's funnybecause, you know, all these,
people who always doubt, AI andvery, very, well, laughing about
it, they are now AI experts.Over there, they became AI
experts because they can writesome prompts. Yeah. Mhmm.
(08:17):
So what we do in in ourcompanies, we we we do really
hardcore AI research, and, yeah,because we have the knowledge to
do it. Yeah.
Kevin Horek (08:30):
Okay. So let's dive a little bit deeper into how
does it actually work, and howdo companies leverage your
technology?
Eddi Weinwurm (08:38):
Yeah. So, our big technology is to, think against
the grain or go against thegrain because, it's, you know,
every AI these days is happeningin the clouds. So, all these
models are cloud APIs. You know,when you chat with, chat GPT or
(09:03):
you have some Google APIs, it'sall happening in the cloud. And
this this is actually the easyway to go because if you want to
improve your model, you just addnew parameters.
You make it larger and larger.So, AI is currently, like,
exploding in size, and everymodel is is bigger and bigger.
That's the easy way to go. But,what what what I discovered
(09:24):
early on is, like, you know,cloud is nice and great, but in
a lot of lot of cases, you don'twant to use cloud services
because you have really sensibledata. There there are use cases
where there's not even anInternet connection.
You know? It's it's like a brickfirewall air gapped. Yeah. So,
(09:49):
of course, there is also in thiscase, you also want to use AI.
So what our first product, is,for example, Caravan, which I
placed in the market where Icome from because I really
understand this market verywell.
It's, audio visual AI. Yeah. Soused by, for example, major
(10:13):
Hollywood studios. Why it'simportant for them? Because
their production environmentswhere the edits, the movies
Kevin Horek (10:22):
Right.
Eddi Weinwurm (10:23):
Is completed. They have cameras watching the
editors. Mhmm. They record thescreens of the computers and so
on. They have a a a securitylike the NSA.
Yeah? So, of course, it'simpossible there to connect to
the Internet or do anything,like, with this big model. So,
(10:43):
we came up with solutions whichcan run, the build this, very
deep, machine learning, stuffand tools, really on prem
isolated from the Internet, allself contained in hardware we
ship. So that that they don'tneed to use, really, like, a
(11:06):
supercomputer there, but it canrun on on on normal hardware.
And and that's the success we'recurrently having.
Yeah? So media production, filmproduction, TV studios, but
also, I don't know, big retailchains, which which use it for
customer interviews and so on.So everywhere where you want to
(11:29):
keep the stuff safe and secureand, and and, on premise. Yeah.
That's where we fit in becauseit was really hard engineering
to make the models a lot bigger,but smaller.
Sure. While, getting them, yeah,optimized.
Kevin Horek (11:50):
No. That's that's very cool. So how do okay. So,
like, if I'm in a movie studioand I'm editing, for example,
how am I using your technologyin that process? Or, like, how
do I, like, how do I leverageyour tech with we you know, in
as a customer?
Eddi Weinwurm (12:07):
For example, the simplest, the the simplest
example is, you want to editthis interview now.
Kevin Horek (12:15):
K.
Eddi Weinwurm (12:15):
So, and then you remembered I told something
about my childhood, in Vienna.
Kevin Horek (12:22):
Okay. Yeah.
Eddi Weinwurm (12:23):
You have no idea how I formulated this. Yeah?
What words are used? Yeah. So Sowe're talking about Vienna now
again, but probably that's notwhat you're looking for.
Yeah? So, there you can searchwith this context of our search,
and we are talking aboutsearches in really, really huge
archives. Yeah. We have, forexample, years of archive or
(12:47):
fifty years. Yeah.
Kevin Horek (12:48):
Right.
Eddi Weinwurm (12:49):
Searching there really with all this soft skill,
like an assistant would for afootage by describing it, but
describing it like, really,like, an emotional phrases.
Yeah. Not what, will happen,what you really want to see, but
what feeling it should representor searching in in in
interviews. That's, for example,one fractional idea we have.
(13:11):
Yeah.
And, you know, when you search,for a fast car, you usually in
in in media production, you wantto illustrate something, and you
don't want the fast car parkedin a clip in front of a
restaurant. Yeah.
Kevin Horek (13:28):
Right. Yeah.
Eddi Weinwurm (13:29):
Yeah. So being able to search with, like, a
human description, that's onemajor feature we have. And then,
of course, we have featureswhich just help the editors.
They help, like, to predict howthis story can visually
continue.
Kevin Horek (13:47):
Okay.
Eddi Weinwurm (13:48):
And then you have different options, and you don't
have to, you you don't have to,like, go through your material
and find the right footage,when, the AI can already help
you. So, you know, that that'sreally, there's a hot topic in
media production, of course,that AI takes jobs. And, we
(14:09):
really take care in our productdevelopment that we develop
something which is, actuallytaking away the boring part.
Kevin Horek (14:17):
Yeah.
Eddi Weinwurm (14:18):
So, you know, like, when you edit this
interview to shuttle around andto search for certain, it's
super boring. Yeah. Superannoying. Yeah. So we, have a
lot of tools now included, whichjust take away the boring part
that the creatives can reallyfocus on on on on on what's fun.
(14:40):
Yeah.
Kevin Horek (14:42):
No. Yeah. I I % agree. Like, I've been using AI
for basically everything thesedays. Right?
And it gets you a certain partof the way maybe down the road
of an idea, but you really needto execute it or you have to
constantly, like, walk itthrough step by step to do
certain tasks for you. And it'snot really any different than
(15:05):
starting with a template backYeah. Like, before AI. Like,
it's just the next evolution ofthat. And I think you're right.
It gets rid of those, like, miniminimal or, like, kinda boring
parts of the job that I don'twanna do. And well, nobody wants
to do. Right? So I can focus onthe, like, the the better and
more fun stuff. Right?
And I think we're so far awayfrom it really eliminating
(15:28):
people's jobs in my opinion.Sounds like you kinda share the
the same, opinion.
Eddi Weinwurm (15:35):
Yeah. The I mean, the the the, I see there are two
approaches to it. Yeah. Ofcourse, you can create AI which
acts as like a person and whichis let them in competition to
you. Yeah.
Yeah. But there is this otherperspective which I prefer, and
that's where I also develop myproducts too. It's what I call
symbiotic AI. Like, it's it'senhancing you. Yeah.
(15:59):
It's advancing you and yourabilities that you can even
compete with an AI, and and youcan compete on the market. Yeah.
So these are two differentaspects. Of course, some
companies will replace chopswith this, really acting AI, but
I think if we use AI clever, andand and develop a clever AI,
(16:22):
which can be really built at thesymbiosis with us. Yeah.
Enhancing our perception,enhancing our thoughts, and
enhancing our expression. Yeah.I think that's really what we
should aim for, and that's,really what I can recommend, to
(16:42):
to everyone. Yes. Start usingAI.
Start using it to be really, ina symbiotic relationship and get
support and get the best of it.Yeah.
Kevin Horek (16:55):
Yeah. No. No. That makes makes a lot of sense. So
do you wanna maybe give us a fewother use cases in other
industries of how people areleveraging your technology?
Eddi Weinwurm (17:06):
Yeah. So, of course, we said we started in
this one vertical in the mediaand entertainment industry, and
then we soon discovered, oh,this problem, yeah, it it exists
in a lot of markets. Yeah. And,honestly, you know, everywhere
where you deal with tradesecrets, internal communication,
(17:30):
contracts, and so on, that'swhere you don't want to send it
to a third party. Because notthat you don't need to trust a
third party, but, you know, itit it all can be hacked, all can
be abused and misused.
And, you know, you have a lot ofregulations. We have, for
example, in Europe, this GDPRdata protection and so on, and
(17:50):
this all is a is anadministrative administrative
hell if you if you reallyinteract with third party
services. So yeah. But what whatwe offer, is, for example, you
know, in in in the healthindustry, you know, patient
datas are the most sensible datayou can have. Yeah.
Kevin Horek (18:09):
Yeah.
Eddi Weinwurm (18:09):
And, there, of course, the AI can be quite
useful or, like, monitoring ofof a facility. Yeah. You you
have a camera which is watcheswhich watching which is watching
your top secret research lab. Doyou actually want to livestream
(18:30):
this? Yeah.
Of course not. Yeah. So, Ithink, you know, with every new
technology, we have these twophases. The first phase is,
yeah, it flies. This this,Wright brothers, okay, it flies.
And we don't care the first carused. I don't know how many
(18:51):
gallons. Whatever. So we didn'tcare. But soon after, then the
phase of, engineering andoptimization starts because then
it's, the question, okay.
We we cannot just pump more gasinto it. Yeah? Yeah. Or or
really build I don't know. Nownow now we're building atomic
(19:12):
power plants just to run theseAI models.
Yeah?
Kevin Horek (19:15):
Yeah.
Eddi Weinwurm (19:16):
So we should start to to to go into this
engineering and say, okay. Howcan we optimize it, that it's
really interesting for business?
Kevin Horek (19:24):
Yeah. Interesting.
Eddi Weinwurm (19:26):
Of course, in this optimization, we can also
go further and say, okay. Can weoptimize it that much that we
can run it on prem on location?Yeah.
Kevin Horek (19:35):
No. Fair enough. So how do you basically get in
front of a customer and thenfigure out what their needs are?
Because that health care spacethat you just obviously, there's
a million things you could do inthe healthcare space. Right?
So how do you, like, kind ofbecause people are I think
(19:55):
people are still scared of AI,and then you're going into
something where it's, like,very, like, patient data.
There's a bunch of laws aroundthis stuff. So, like, how do you
go in, sell your services tothese, you know, big
organizations and governments,and then still be able to
create, like, a product out ofit?
Eddi Weinwurm (20:14):
Yeah. Yeah.
Kevin Horek (20:15):
And service.
Eddi Weinwurm (20:16):
So, honestly, it it it it we get approached. You
know? The people see what we donow now in the media business or
what we achieved in the mediabusiness. Yeah. And for example,
we have one big retail chainhere in The US, One of the
biggest, actually.
We started to use our product inthe media production because
(20:39):
they have in house mediaproduction, social media
production and so on. And then,for example, the customer
research passes by and says, oh,what's this nice AI? We also
want it. Because, you know, wehave this endless Zoom
interviews with with withcustomers where we check the
market trends, and then we wantto search, okay, peanut butter
recipes or whatever. Yeah?
(21:00):
So, you know, you want to thiscustomer interviews where they
check really the the thecustomer values. They are very
they have to be very openbecause you want to have the
customer talk freely. So, forexample, then then the approach
is, yeah, we this is a goodidea. So it it's currently
working this way because, youknow, a lot of companies are
(21:22):
missing the expertise. We aretalking now about chief AI
officer and so on, and then theyare these these are future jobs.
Yeah. So the they're they'rereally also huge companies lack,
the the the real expertise, andthen they often hire some young
college kids. Our script kiddieswould think, okay. I download
(21:45):
some models from Hugging Faceand I have my product ready, but
they never experiencedengineering and how much it
really what's the differencebetween a prototype and a
prototype?
Kevin Horek (21:55):
Yeah. Yeah. Totally. Interesting.
Eddi Weinwurm (21:59):
I mean, this really surprises me because I'm
I'm I'm talking with hugecompanies. They sometimes really
lack, understanding about thewhole topic. Yeah?
Kevin Horek (22:14):
So how do you bridge that gap, though, and how
do you start educating themabout AI and what they can and
can't do with it? Becausethere's so much misinformation
out there about what AI can dotoday, what the promise people
are hoping for can do in thefuture. So, like, how are you
(22:35):
actually working with thesecompanies to actually say, like,
here's what we can do, andhere's hopefully what we can
maybe do in the future? Yeah.
Eddi Weinwurm (22:44):
Yeah. So, you know, when we have a a ready,
you know, a really finishedproduct like, caravana in the
meat industry, it's it's Ialways prefer to make, you know,
these POC installations, whichis proof of concept. You know,
they get something delivered,and then I say, oh, but, you
know, don't upload as techniciantest material. Let the end users
(23:08):
play with it.
Ad (23:09):
Yeah. Then it's solved.
Eddi Weinwurm (23:10):
Then it then I then I have it solved because
the end users don't want to giveit out of hands again. Yeah. So
I get them hooked on it. Yeah.That's that's that's actually
when you have really goodproduct, the the best approach
to say, okay.
We ship a unit there. You weinstall it, and it's it's an end
and then it's sold. Yeah.
Kevin Horek (23:31):
Okay. So are you building, like, a physical box
then that houses yourtechnology? Is that what you
just kinda said?
Eddi Weinwurm (23:39):
Yeah. Yeah. So we don't build them ourselves. Of
course,
Kevin Horek (23:42):
we have
Eddi Weinwurm (23:42):
partners who do this. Okay. And but, of course,
it gets, preinstalled. That'swhat we call an AI node. And the
nice thing on this AI node isyou can cluster them.
So, if, if the the the customerswant to use this in other
sectors or want to expand theirdataset or whatever, they can
buy additional, units and linearclusters. Yeah. So we want to
(24:07):
keep it as simple. That's ourgoal, as simple as connecting to
an API. And, I don't know if youplayed around with these APIs of
of Yeah.
The AI and so on. They're quiteeasy to implement. So
Kevin Horek (24:20):
Yeah.
Eddi Weinwurm (24:21):
Our goal is to to to to to come to a similar,
yeah, setup. You know, it it'splug and play. Of course, it
needs a bit of setup, currently.But, in the end, yeah, it's it
should be as simple as possible.Yeah.
That's that's the reason why wereally ship this as boxes. Yeah.
Kevin Horek (24:43):
Okay. So I wanna dive a little bit deeper into
that. So you called it Carolone? Yeah. Okay.
So and and what does thatactually do? Like, walk us
through from what it like,becoming a customer to actually
getting it and using it and thewhole setup? Because I'm curious
to know how the hardware andsoftware kind of fit into that.
Eddi Weinwurm (25:05):
Yeah. Yeah. So, most usually, that it works this
way that, you have some assets,you have some archives or you
have some production assets.Depends. For example, you have a
Netflix show documentary.
You you worked the film forthree years. So, you you install
(25:30):
our appliance, connect it to thestorage. AI automatically starts
to, analyze the storage, startsto watch these, clips, the
assets which are there. And andthen you can just, have a user
interface, which is veryintuitive where the, you know,
the greatest then can quiteeasily work search for them
(25:52):
getting, get, I don't know,recommendation how to continue
stuff and so on. So, that's alsoagain, you know, we want to keep
it as easy to, yeah, to run.
Of course, there are then usecases when we go really into big
(26:12):
installations, like, we we didnow for a major science fiction
franchise, training on theiruniverse.
Kevin Horek (26:21):
Okay.
Eddi Weinwurm (26:22):
Our models really learn to identify spaceship by
parts or planets by their, treesand so on. Yeah.
Kevin Horek (26:29):
That's cool.
Eddi Weinwurm (26:30):
Yeah. That's, you know, for for for my, engineers
and, data analyst. It was reallyfun because they love it. Yeah.
Kevin Horek (26:40):
Sure. Yeah. Totally. Yeah. That's cool.
It
Eddi Weinwurm (26:43):
it was highly motivating them. Yeah. So but,
that's an additional services weprovide. Yeah. So because, as I
said, we are really these modelswe are having, we're really
developing them ourselves.
We are training them ourselves.We know how to to to to come up
with new things. Yeah. So, evenif they want to, have new,
(27:09):
functionalities, AIfunctionalities implemented, we
sit down with our engineers, andwe we come up with solutions. So
yeah.
So, we offer more than just thisplug and play box. If they
really want, we can integratethis into existing
infrastructures and so on or,come up with custom models,
(27:30):
custom training, and so on.
Kevin Horek (27:32):
Okay. No. That makes sense. So the hardware box
itself, you you mentioned youpartner with people. Like, is it
basically just like a Linuxcomputer or or kinda what's in
it exactly?
Eddi Weinwurm (27:47):
Yep. So, it's it's it's a Linux box. Yeah. So
it's a Linux box with a strong,GPU in the end. Yeah.
Kevin Horek (27:56):
Sure.
Eddi Weinwurm (27:57):
So, you know, we we we we want to keep this also
as efficient and, you know, as,yeah, as affordable as possible.
We don't you know, it it's forthe customer in the end, it's
much cheaper to buy this. Evenwe would also offer this, like,
(28:19):
as a as a as a service. Yeah?But it's it's much cheaper to
buy this than to go into thisuse all these APIs because, you
know, these cloud services,they, the costs, they are
really, significant.
Yeah. Yeah. Now imagine you havefifty years of archive. Yeah?
Kevin Horek (28:36):
Yeah.
Eddi Weinwurm (28:38):
Sending all this, the sunburn is gets really
expensive. Yeah.
Kevin Horek (28:43):
So, you know, I I understand agree with you. So
roughly, what's the cost of abox?
Eddi Weinwurm (28:49):
I'd say that between 40 and 50 k.
Kevin Horek (28:52):
Okay. That
Eddi Weinwurm (28:53):
that's that's the starting point. Yeah. And, I
don't know if we have customerswhich then have, like, really a
lot of these boxes, but
Kevin Horek (29:01):
Right.
Eddi Weinwurm (29:02):
We really build them so that they are easily to
cluster, easy, comfortable, and,hot swappable and stuff like
this. Yeah? Because we reallythat's that's the thing. Yeah.
We want to bring AI down fromthe, yeah, it flies to, okay,
here it it runs.
(29:22):
Yeah.
Kevin Horek (29:23):
Yeah. No. That that's really cool. So walk us
through maybe some I see on yourwebsite you have, some
government use cases. Do youwanna maybe give us some of
those as well?
Eddi Weinwurm (29:36):
Yeah. That's no. The the government use cases,
they they are now, some projectswe are having, but they are not
really like customers yet. Butit's quite complicated. Sure.
I can imagine. Bureaucracysquared. But I don't want to
(29:58):
complain. But the thing is, likemost governments, they're really
limited in AI news. And thiscreates a huge imbalance.
For example, you know, patentlawyers, they are now allowed to
use ChatGPT officially. Yeah. Sothey they they they research,
(30:20):
okay, what does the what does,do other patents say about this
and so on? And, you know, theexaminers, they're not allowed
to use it.
Kevin Horek (30:32):
Right.
Eddi Weinwurm (30:32):
So this creates a huge imbalance. Yeah. And then
and this is in many sectors.Yeah. Like, it's it's even like,
I don't know, for tax or for foreverything.
Yeah. Usually, governmentagencies, are not yet allowed to
use it. Yeah. So there we see,of course, the market. Yeah.
(30:54):
The government itself wants toinvest now. I don't know if
you're here. It is about 10, ahundred billions and so on
because they see this problem.But, you know, if the government
built something, it takes sometime to it's really running and,
yeah. So, yeah, these are these,yeah, the, different verticals
(31:17):
we see, where we fit in.
And in the end, we want to,expand to, yeah, to a lot of
sectors. Also, which is easy touse, you know, we ship your
hardware, you plug it in, andyou get a product. Yeah.
Kevin Horek (31:32):
No. That's that's really cool. So I wanna talk a
little bit about what can youactually do with AI, and what
are your kind of thoughts aroundAI right now? Because, like, I
wanted some of the gadgets thatwere, you know, like, came out
last year when they werepromised, you know, a bunch of
(31:55):
stuff, like, I really wantedsome of that stuff to be true.
And I think the perfect exampleis, like, the rabbit r one.
Like, I wanted that thing to bewhat they said it was. Yeah. I
pre ordered one. I got it, andit's the biggest piece of
garbage, and it's sitting on mydesk collecting dust.
Eddi Weinwurm (32:13):
Yeah.
Kevin Horek (32:13):
And so to me, that was the perfect example of
something that, like, I wantedit to be true, but it's
completely nowhere near what wasdemoed on stage.
Eddi Weinwurm (32:22):
Yeah.
Kevin Horek (32:23):
And I think a lot of people kind of have that.
Like, they're, like, they'reterrified of it because of,
like, what's promised, but thereality is so disconnected. So
can you maybe talk about wherewe are? Because you've been in
the space a long time and and
Eddi Weinwurm (32:39):
what your thoughts are. So that's actually
the the future vision I havewith the company because, you
know, we have Moore's law thatthe hardware gets more and more
performant.
Kevin Horek (32:49):
Yeah.
Eddi Weinwurm (32:49):
And this is now especially through in in all
these, GPU applications. And onthe other side, we are working
against this because we try tomake this thing smaller. And I
think one big problem wecurrently have, and even if I
use, like, chat GPT, the voicechat, Yep. You know, you will
have this really awkward delayof replies, and you're sharing
(33:12):
the resources, this model withmillions of others. So you can
sometimes wait really long forthe reply.
And, actually, you know what Iwould what I'm dreaming of
glasses, which where I'm whileI'm looking point at different
things, like see, or even, like,darken down some parts of the
vision and, enhance, the pointwhere I'm where I should look
(33:35):
for. So, you know, this part ofAI, which is really, like,
responsive Yeah. And, andtherefore can just run on your
local device. Yeah. So, I thinkthat's that's a lot of, that's a
huge problem in the experience.
Yeah. Because Yeah. If I havethe smart glasses, which I
really love. Yeah. And I reallywish I had it, like, soon in a
(33:58):
working.
Right? Yep. Yeah. Yeah. But thisresponsiveness and you you're
developing UX.
Yeah. You're a UX developer. Youknow how important
responsiveness is. Yeah.
Kevin Horek (34:09):
%. It it it's almost like the number one
thing.
Eddi Weinwurm (34:13):
Yeah. So and and there I see the crossing point.
It's also a question of privacybecause, you know, when I have
this symbiotic what I callsymbiotic AI, I want to have it
always on. Yeah? Yeah.
It's like I don't want to givemy brain when I when I enter the
house, I don't want to put mybrain on the on the, yeah, on
the cupboard.
Kevin Horek (34:33):
So
Eddi Weinwurm (34:35):
but I also don't want to stream what's happening
in my bedroom, you know. Yeah.And there we again at this
point, yeah, but we say, okay,it's nice to talk with Chat GPT
about business and whatever,but, you know, when it gets
really about private issues andwhen maybe really this AI starts
to watch my daily life and it'son twenty four seven Yeah. Want
(34:57):
to have it on me. Yeah.
Kevin Horek (35:00):
Yeah. Yeah. That's interesting. Well, the other
thing too is I think you alsodon't like, especially if you're
wearing glasses, you don't wantthem like, again, it's kind of
like Google Glass was, like, thefirst kinda thing with that. But
if you wore those out in public,everybody was, like, so
uncomfortable.
Right? And you also looked kindaridiculous. So you need
(35:23):
something that looks just likeregular glasses. And, obviously,
some of this like, some of thethe amount of actual surface
area where you can even stick abattery is basically
nonexistent. Right?
Unless you connect a cable to abattery pack like kind of the
Vision Pro does. So we're kinda,like, it's we're in a weird
place, right, where the tech'snot really there yet compared to
(35:46):
work with the hardware.
Eddi Weinwurm (35:47):
But there is a lot of, investment going on in
this sector, and I think we willbe there. And I I don't know. I
I wish you know, I I I reallybad in remembering names, and
I'm on a lot of conventions.Yeah. I always need my assistant
next to me, which whispers in myear, oh, this is not Tom,
whatever, and asking me abouthis, children.
(36:08):
Yeah. Right. So having somethinglike this Yeah. Of assistant, I
would love it. Yeah.
And and, you know, just a littleplug in the ear, which is
transparent to to to the normalaudio and gives me some,
enriches my perception. Yeah?Yeah. This alone would would be
(36:29):
amazing.
Kevin Horek (36:31):
Interesting. Yeah. No. I % agree. So as somebody
that's building hardware for AI,like,
Eddi Weinwurm (36:41):
how
Kevin Horek (36:41):
and I know I've seen what, like, kind of
Facebook and Meta are doing withtheir glasses and the snap
glasses and and whatnot. And allthese like, I played with the
Vision Pro. Like, how soon doyou actually think we are out
from that? Are we three years,five years, ten years? Do you
know roughly?
Eddi Weinwurm (37:02):
I would say, you know, it depends what what you
what you demand. Yeah? So if youwant to if you want to really
run a a GPT four model on yourphone, it this takes at least
more than ten years. Yeah?
Kevin Horek (37:19):
Okay. What
Eddi Weinwurm (37:21):
we do for example, what's our trick? Why
how we get our AI smaller is,because we are using compounds
instead of monolithic models. Itmeans, like, for example, this
media solution we have there,like, now over 10 different
models.
Kevin Horek (37:35):
Okay.
Eddi Weinwurm (37:37):
Which makes sense because, you know, when you ask,
about, cookie recipe, Yeah. Justto pass through all these layers
with all this information aboutquantum physics, Shakespeare,
and so on just to give you thethe right amount of sugar to
add. Yeah?
Kevin Horek (37:52):
Right.
Eddi Weinwurm (37:53):
Waste. Yeah. So, we use, for example, expert
models. Yeah.
Kevin Horek (37:58):
Okay.
Eddi Weinwurm (37:58):
I plan on models, which, or routing models, which
say, okay. This model ishandling this and that. Yeah. So
climate engineering in that.And, what I see earlier is in
hybrid.
Yeah? Hybrid. So that you say,okay. You have some models
running locally.
Kevin Horek (38:16):
Right.
Eddi Weinwurm (38:16):
And then you have, if you it's really the
heavy lifting, reasoning, itkinda happen in the cloud.
Something like that.
Kevin Horek (38:25):
This. Okay. Kinda what Apple's trying to do with
Apple intelligence and failingmiserably at it. Yes.
Eddi Weinwurm (38:29):
Kind of. But, that's that's what I what I I
meant before. You know? It'seasy to build a prototype, and
it's fucking difficult to tobuild a product. Yeah.
Kevin Horek (38:43):
Yeah. No. That's that's fair. And it's
interesting because, like, if abig company like that is
struggling to build, you know,simple things, then, you know,
like, but the caveat to thatthough is you can build some
pretty incredible things with itif you kind of walk it step by
step through, you know, prompts.Right?
Eddi Weinwurm (39:03):
Yeah. Yeah. So I did end it. It's it's all
engineering, and you can youknow, a lot of companies are
now, like, you know, the thing,like, okay. One, woman needs
nine months to to give birth toit, to a baby, let's hire nine
women and get it done in onemonth.
Yeah? So that's that's the rightphilosophy philosophy. Yeah.
(39:26):
Yeah. So just, throwing a lot ofof clever scientists onto a
problem, doesn't give you aproduct.
Yeah.
Kevin Horek (39:35):
Interesting. Yeah.
Eddi Weinwurm (39:36):
They are more reacting than acting. Yeah. And
our advantages, because westarted seven years ago with all
this, you know, we are acting.And we were the first to, for
example, introduce this semanticsearch, in in in the media
sector. Yeah?
Yeah. You know, before everybodyelse. And all the others, the
big companies like Adobe and soon, they had to react. And
Kevin Horek (39:59):
Yep.
Eddi Weinwurm (40:00):
And that's the state of the industry. And then
you get something like, youknow, that these products which
are half baked monsters. Yeah.
Kevin Horek (40:10):
Yeah. That's that's interesting. What what about
the, the AGI stuff that we keepreading about? What are your
thoughts around that?
Eddi Weinwurm (40:21):
AGI, like a general intelligent.
Kevin Horek (40:25):
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
Eddi Weinwurm (40:29):
I don't know. I if you ask me as a philosopher
Yeah. Okay. No. I think it'scoming.
Yeah. And I think, we humans arenot so unique. Our language is
not so unique. You know, thatthat's that's really the the
weird thing that, languagemodels were much quicker,
(40:55):
trained and then much quicker itdid show up much quicker in
research than, all these imagemodels. Yeah.
We really understand visually orrobots are still bumping against
stuff. Yeah? And language modelswriting academic papers. Yeah?
So we we we understand thatmaybe, yeah, of course, we are
the best, which is known to usas humans.
(41:18):
But, where should the why shouldthere be a limit, of of
intelligence which can't getbetter than us? And I'm thinking
I I'm I'm thinking, we'reheading there. Yeah? And,
probably, you know, with thenext generation of, OpenAI
(41:38):
models, we will have really,PhD, reasoning. And yeah.
So we have Interesting. If it'sgood or bad, I don't ask me.
It's, weird. I didn't I didn'tknow when I when I had Yeah.
When I had this wish, I want totalk with my computer.
(42:01):
I didn't expect this. Yeah.That's, yeah. But I'm living
this dream actually. Yeah.
Kevin Horek (42:06):
No. That's that's really cool. Do you have
thoughts or advice for people tomaybe stay relevant in their
careers or things that they cando to make themselves more
valuable? Because I especiallyin tech right now, it's it seems
to be coming out of the doom andgloom a bit. But do you have any
advice for people that are maybelooking to get into tech or are
(42:27):
kind of panicked about all thisstuff in tech?
Eddi Weinwurm (42:30):
So, my advice is, the the wise, advice I give to
my developers, use AI as much aspossible. And, yeah, it's I, you
know, that's I know softwaredevelopment from before, AI, and
I know it now. And for me, thedifference is, we are just much
(42:52):
faster. We can achieve much morein the time. Yeah?
That's Yeah. Changed. But myteam size didn't change. Yeah?
So I don't know how it will bein the future.
I I don't know. But maybe,maybe, AI plus human is still of
more value than AI withouthuman. Yeah?
Kevin Horek (43:14):
So I I think so.
Eddi Weinwurm (43:16):
Yeah. So having having this human creativity and
maybe, even human, weirdness ofcreativity. And there is again
where, you know, I mentioned inthe beginning, I'm in between
this world of creativity andmathematics. Yeah? Yeah.
So, having this weirdness. Yeah?Additionally, as an input,
(43:37):
maybe, helps, yeah, makes ourthe the the our product, what we
produce when we work together insynergy with AI, maybe this
little better that we can beatpure AI. Yeah. So I I can just
recommend every everyone keep upto date, with AI.
(44:00):
Use it, learn to use it, and,learn to handle it, yeah, to
guide it. Yeah? And Yeah.
Kevin Horek (44:11):
No. I I think that's actually really good
advice. So other you'vementioned chat g b t. Is there
any other AI tools that that youfind useful in your day to day
that you'd recommend people tryout?
Eddi Weinwurm (44:24):
No. For from I don't know. For me, I'm lazy in
this way. I'm using the newestmodel, the one, and that's
mostly what I use as a sparingpartner. As I said, I I, you
know, I learned to write.
Yeah. Yeah. That's was my jobback then. So I'm writing, but I
(44:48):
I'm I'm using it to getfeedback.
Kevin Horek (44:51):
Totally.
Eddi Weinwurm (44:52):
Using it as a sparing partner for ideas, that
stuff. Yeah. So, I think weshould just that's also what
what I recommend to think morecreative what you can do with
it. Yeah. And not just, like, dothis for me, but maybe ask me
something.
Yeah? Maybe make me make mereflect my buyers I'm having.
(45:18):
Because of you know, inbusiness, for example, as a CEO,
I have to make decisions. Yeah.And
Kevin Horek (45:23):
I Yeah.
Eddi Weinwurm (45:24):
Else. Yeah. So turning it around. Yeah. That's,
for example, what else I canrecommend.
So be creative also in the wayyou use it.
Kevin Horek (45:36):
Yeah. No. I I think that's that's actually really
good advice, but we're kindacoming to the end of the show.
So how about we close withmentioning where people can get
more information about yourself,obvious future, and any other
links you wanna mention?
Eddi Weinwurm (45:49):
Yeah. Obviously, yeah. On ObviousFuture.com.
Yeah. One word,ObviousFuture.com.
Or at me on LinkedIn, EddieWineworm. And, yeah. I'm always,
happy to yeah. As you see, I'mI'm always happy to talk about
(46:10):
it because I It's good. Aboutthis.
Yeah.
Kevin Horek (46:13):
Oh, very cool, Eddie. Well, I really appreciate
you taking the time out of yourday to be on the show, and I
look forward to keeping in touchwith you, and have a good rest
of your day.
Eddi Weinwurm (46:20):
Thank you.
Kevin Horek (46:21):
Thank you. K. Bye.
Intro/Outro (46:30):
For more episodes, you can find us on all major
podcasting platforms or visitIambuildingthefuture.com. Join
us next time and keep buildingthe future.
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