March 14, 2025 • 45 mins
Our mission at NEP is to strengthen emergency responder departments and unions, nonprofit organizations, electrical unions, and teachers unions through the use of proprietary technology, time proven fundraising strategy, and brand building communications assistance that transcends traditional and social media.
NEP is the leading fundraising, web, software, and media management company for Emergency Management, Non-Profit, Law Enforcement, Fire Associations, and Unions. In the past few years, NEP has experienced record growth and looks to continue that growth through mixed media strategic communications.
From websites, communications apps, email campaigns, direct mail, social media marketing, and more, NEP Services has been on the forefront of the technological revolution for over a quarter of a century. We help provide top-tier website development, public relations, social media, fundraising, SEO, direct mail marketing, event management, political outreach, management solutions, organizational resources, and much more.
We serve our clients in changing public perception through in-depth marketing strategies.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:01):
Welcome to building the future hosted by Kevin
Horick. With millions oflisteners a month, building the
future has quickly become one ofthe fastest rising programs with
a focus on interviewingstartups, entrepreneurs,
investors, CEOs, and more. Theradio and TV show airs in 15
markets across the globe,including Silicon Valley. For
(00:22):
full showtimes, past episodes,or to sponsor the show, please
visit buildingthefutureshow.com.
Speaker 2 (00:34):
Welcome back to the show. Today, have Stacy Yudin.
She's the CEO of NEP Services.Stacy, welcome to the show.
Speaker 3 (00:41):
Thank you. Good morning.
Speaker 2 (00:43):
Yeah. I'm excited to have you on the show. I think
what you guys are doing isreally innovative and cool. But
maybe before we get into allthat, let's get to know you a
little bit better and start offwith where you grew up.
Speaker 3 (00:56):
Sure. I'm a California girl, born and
raised, Huntington Beach. Yes. Ilive I live in Laguna Beach now,
so I'm very, very lucky we havegreat weather. I went to UCLA,
so any Bruin fans out there.
Speaker 2 (01:12):
Very cool. What did you take, at UCLA and why?
Speaker 3 (01:17):
Oh, wow. Well, life takes a variety of turns, but I
was a history major, and I was,you know, first gonna go to
medical school and did all mysciences, but decided that life
as an entrepreneur was much moreexciting and and innovating and
invigorating, I should say, thanthan following a career in
(01:38):
medicine.
Speaker 2 (01:38):
Okay. So how did you or what made you figure that
out? Was there, like, a definingmoment, or how did that come to
be?
Speaker 3 (01:48):
You know, you know, I'm a big proponent of doing,
you know, summer classes and andtraveling and getting outside of
your city. And and I spent a lotof time working with
international nonprofits. Iworked with US campaign for
Burma and for UNICEF. And alongthose journeys, I was able to
experience working outside ofthe scope of my community. And I
(02:12):
realized that there was I I wasgeared towards a life in
business, and I love solving bigproblems, and big challenges
were exciting, not intimidating.
And so being an entrepreneurand, you know, really, really
innovating, you know, difficultproblems was more attractive to
me than maybe spending time oneon one with patients. I thought
(02:36):
I could make a bigger impact,working on the business side
than I could, you know, one onone.
Speaker 2 (02:42):
Got it. Okay. So walk us through your career up until
coming to NEP, and then let'stalk about your career and
because you've had a number ofpositions there, and now you're
CEO.
Speaker 3 (02:54):
Yeah. So my I first started off working with, like I
said, international nonprofit. Iwas working for the David Geffen
School of Medicine
Speaker 2 (03:03):
Oh, cool.
Speaker 3 (03:03):
In the program in global health, working on
international research projects.We were basically creating these
research sites and using it asan opportunity to train medical
students, doctors, and residentsabout, that particular research
grant in that particularcountry.
Speaker 2 (03:22):
Cool.
Speaker 3 (03:23):
So it was an opportunity for me to really get
on the ground and say, okay.Well, how do we start this
clinic? How do we start thiseducation program? You know,
setting up everything from wherepeople are gonna stay to the
actual facility and and payrolland, equipment. And so it was
just kinda like starting a smallbusiness in different country
(03:44):
with a variety of regulationsand stop gaps and hurdles and
challenges at the local level aswell as well as at, the
institutional level.
So that was, you know, that myfirst real opportunity to solve
some big challenges, and and weended up building seven
different international researchfacilities and sites and seven
(04:08):
different training programsaround the world. And we're
we're very, very proud of whatwe've done and been able to
train local doctors and havelocal experts also provide
training to US Physicians. Andso it was a really, great
experience as far as startingsomething from zero. I mean,
(04:28):
from concept, you know, awhiteboard and some paper and
pens to, you know, a full blowntraining facility.
Speaker 2 (04:38):
Very cool. So how did you find out about NEP and and
kinda get involved with them?And then let's talk about kind
of your rise there, and thenlet's dive into what, you guys
do.
Speaker 3 (04:49):
NEP Services was providing fundraising services
through direct mail for, firstresponder organizations, on the
West Coast, and I happened tomeet the founder. And I we were
I was taking a look at hisbusiness as a consultant, and we
had a lot of conversations abouthow could we do more for these
nonprofits. Right? We werehandling a lot of the
(05:11):
transactions in the marketingside, but the the idea and the
big vision was what if we buildplatforms that would help the
nonprofit be more efficient? Youhelp them communicate and market
better to their donors, includethe donors in the conversation
of how they're driving impactfor that community.
And so the you know, again, backto the whiteboard, back to the
(05:34):
pen and paper, what was that bigvision, and then then the hard
work started where we had to putthat into action. So that that
was the beginning of our dream,when we first started building
NEP services technologyplatforms, and that was about a
decade ago.
Speaker 2 (05:50):
Okay. So walk us through that journey and what is
it today and kind of let's diveinto the services and offerings
of the software.
Speaker 3 (05:59):
Yeah. So NEP Services now provides advanced
fundraising and communicationplatforms for nonprofits, labor
organizations, five zero one cthrees that help them transform
their marketing and internaloperations.
Speaker 2 (06:16):
Okay.
Speaker 3 (06:17):
So one of one of the areas of impact I always talk to
nonprofit leaders about is thatyou have to run your nonprofit
like it's a business. So youneed to think about your
internal operations, how you canstreamline and make those
effective, as well as yourfundraising strategy. Right.
(06:37):
Nonprofits a lot of time focuson, we've gotta raise money.
We've gotta raise money.
That's our bread and butter, andthat is 100% of your budget is
how much you can raise from yoursupport from your supporters and
donors.
Speaker 2 (06:49):
Right.
Speaker 3 (06:50):
But the other side of that is how do you be really
strategic with the vendors andpartners that you choose, and
then how do you operate youractual nonprofit operations? And
you should you should approachit like a business. So choosing
best in class solutions foraccounting, choosing best in
class solutions for yourwebsite, and all the other
(07:13):
administrative tools that youneed, not just the most cost
efficient solution. Somethingthat it can really future proof,
set you up for success in yournonprofit.
Speaker 2 (07:23):
No. That makes sense. Well and you want the because
you have to when you putyourself out there to your,
like, to your users as anonprofit, like, if they have a
terrible experience, they're notgonna wanna use your platform or
your website or whatever.Correct?
Speaker 3 (07:38):
Yeah. I mean, it's just like a business with a
customer. You know, you wannamake sure that you're presenting
yourself in the best light.You're communicating effectively
with that, you know, customer ordonor. Either they're
effectively the same thing,you're selling, the impact that
you're making as a nonprofit.
So you wanna make sure thatyou're engaging your audience
(07:59):
just like you would for anybusiness. And so the tools that
you're using need to be at thatsame caliber as if you're a
Fortune 500 company. So one ofmy biggest challenges as at that
time was a consultant anddirector of business development
any at NEP was, how do youdesign products that are as good
as best in class products forFortune 500 companies, but at a
(08:24):
a budget level for a nonprofitthat's just getting going?
Speaker 2 (08:28):
Right.
Speaker 3 (08:28):
So how do you how do you make that affordable? How do
you fit that market, fornonprofits that don't have as
much discretionary spend asFortune five hundred companies?
So that was one of our biggestchallenges when we're designing
and investing into theseproducts is making sure that
they're they could be priced inthis marketplace appropriately.
(08:51):
That that's a whole another showprobably on pricing strategy.
Speaker 2 (08:55):
Well, can you maybe dive a little bit deeper into
that? Because I like you said,obviously, that I think is a
challenge. Even I think as a lotof start ups, just getting early
customers sometimes just pricingcan be a challenge. Right? So
how have you kind of solvedthat?
Speaker 3 (09:10):
Yeah. So I think one of one of the areas where NEP
really, really did well and wereally did well early on was not
overbuilding our product.
Speaker 2 (09:20):
Okay.
Speaker 3 (09:20):
So as an entrepreneur, you know, we all
have ideas, and it it's reallyeasy to have great ideas. And I
hate to say that, but what'sdifficult is implementing a
great product using your ideas.And so it's really about paring
down what you're gonna buildinto your MVP. You should be
(09:41):
building the least amount ofyour ideas as possible, holding
yourself back from jumping offthe cliff no matter how exciting
that might seem, building atleast at least amount of
features as possible, and theniterating off of actual customer
feedback. And and I've I've readthat that is not a new
(10:02):
recommendation.
I didn't come up with thatrecommendation, but it's really,
really hard to follow becausethere's a lot of excitement, and
you get a lot of tractioninitially with your platform.
But what happens is that you'reunable to iterate any one
feature well enough to besuccessful long term. So I I I
(10:25):
now tell everyone, you know, allmy entrepreneur friends and
young business owners thatreally wanna dive in a % into
their product is that holdyourself back, build as build it
build it as small as you can sothat you can focus on iterating
piece by piece. What that doeslater is it also allows you to
(10:47):
have a less expensive productbecause you've invested less
upfront. So you're gonna be ableto enter the market and keep
your price points as low aspossible so that you can get
either early adopters or atleast have a little bit of a a
wider margin when it comes toyour pricing strategy down the
road.
Speaker 2 (11:08):
I % agree with you. But how have you kinda managed,
or what's your advice for that?Because, obviously, you have a a
road map. You have featurerequests from clients. You might
have, like, a big customerthat's maybe willing to pay you
to develop some features, or youmight have a customer saying,
we'll sign up if you add thesethree to five things or whatever
(11:29):
the number is.
So, like, how have you managedthat? Because that's really
challenging.
Speaker 3 (11:37):
That is probably the most challenging part of this.
And I can admit to everyone onthe air who's listening to this
that I didn't I didn't make theright decision a lot of the
times because you do get pulledin with these what you've you've
you see then as your keycustomer, as your ideal
customer. They pull you in withthe idea that, oh, we're gonna
(11:57):
refer everyone and Yeah. Yeah.We're gonna use this platform.
They kind of sell you in a way.
Speaker 2 (12:02):
Interesting. Yeah.
Speaker 3 (12:03):
You you get you get wrapped in with the idea of, you
know, this is someone who'sgonna elevate my platform to the
next level. I'm gonna be able todemonstrate their use cases and
their success. And so I wouldjust you know, I I had a lot of
business mentors at this pointin my career as well, and they
cautioned me on the same thingthat I would say is that you
(12:26):
really, really need to hold holdyour platform close and not get
not get sold on on your customeruser base and be really, really
strategic with what you buildout, not overbuild. Because I
did overbuild on my firstplatform. My first version of my
of NEP Connect are membershipcommunication and engagement
(12:49):
software for unions andnonprofits.
It we we were very successful.We scaled in eighteen months to,
over almost three quarters of amillion users, which is a huge
success, very successful. But wewe overbuilt some features, and
we were at these scale wallsthat we've now had to to
(13:13):
basically refactor. And so Ilooked back at a few key
customers, and I spent too muchtime focusing on a couple key
customers who kinda promised methe world. And I didn't spend
enough time looking at theentire platform analytics and
your your your your 80% of yourusers.
(13:36):
What are they doing on theplatform? Where are they
spending their time? Whatfeatures are they using the
most? What are what are theinnovations, and what are the
use cases that I need to bedeveloping for 80% of my
customer base? Not not the 20%that maybe is screaming the
loudest or selling me on whatthey're gonna do for the
(13:57):
platform.
So it's a hard absolutely avery, very hard line to walk.
Speaker 2 (14:04):
No. I I hundred percent agree. So I wanna dive a
little bit deeper into whatexactly do people get with the
platform, and is there add ons?Like, how does it kinda work
when you're onboarding a newuser or or, I guess, like, union
or whoever?
Speaker 3 (14:21):
Yes. Again, another another great example of a a
challenge we learned building aplatform for unions and
nonprofits is that the use casesare varied, very varied. You
know, this is not just one typeof customer who's going out and
buying a car and wants this typeof experience during the sale
(14:41):
process. When you're workingwith labor organizations,
unions, first responderorganization, nonprofits, they
all have a very, very diverseset of needs. So our our latest
version of Connect Plus, ourmembership database engagement
(15:01):
and member experience platformis a brand new kind of entry
point into the marketplace ofhow do we create early adopters
for nonprofits?
How do we how do we give thedonor experience the feeling
that they're they're workingalongside the nonprofit every
day? How do we help unionsengage their membership? And so
(15:25):
we do that through an all in onesoftware that allows the union
or nonprofit to deploycommunications. So emails, text
message, encrypted documents,and a membership space in the
cloud where they can have twoway conversations with their
donors or with their members allin one ecosystem. And so it's
(15:48):
kinda like the metaverse wrappedinto a website where that donor
can get engaged with thatnonprofit as much or as little
as they want to.
Same with unions and theirmembers. A union member needs to
pay their dues. They wannacommunicate with their nonprofit
or their their organization.They need to look at their
(16:10):
benefits. They can do all ofthat inside of this virtual
union space that we call ConnectPlus.
And so it's really been able toconnect the union to their
members or the nonprofit totheir donors.
Speaker 2 (16:26):
Okay. And so what because you have a bunch of,
like, like, they can have awebsite. They can have a few
other things. Like, let's dive alittle bit deeper into some of
the other features that oncethey get the kind of core that
they can kind of expand on.
Speaker 3 (16:41):
Oh, yeah. Once they build out this virtual office
and this virtual space thatallows them to run the
nonprofit, communicate withtheir members, keep their
membership data, they can expandand really start to deliver
strategic marketing. So, youknow, they can attach their web
site. They can add on virtualvoting. They can do surveying to
the community.
(17:02):
We have a platform called Help AHero, which allows our
nonprofits to raise fundssecurely through a a
crowdfunding web site, that dataof those donors is automatically
embedded into their web platformwith us. And so one of the areas
where we stand out is that I'vetaken the time to integrate each
(17:24):
one of these separate tools intoConnect Plus that their entire
operation is streamlined. And wehave that interoperability,
which allows the the leaders todo things a lot easier than
they're used to. They don't haveto spend their time behind a
desk. You know?
The data from their membershipand from their donors are all
(17:45):
integrated into one platform,which is a a big lift when
you're talking about managing anonprofit or managing a labor
union.
Speaker 2 (17:54):
Yeah. Well and the other thing too is not having
to, like, have this tool for onething, this tool for another
thing, this tool, like and thentrying to integrate and get all
the data from all those is anightmare.
Speaker 3 (18:06):
Right? It's one of the biggest, yeah, it's
absolutely one of the biggestchallenges I think for anyone
who's running a business,nonprofit or other. I've got a
texting tool over here. I've gotan email, Mailchimp, Constant
Contact over here. I've got awebsite with Wix.
A lot of amazing, incredibletools out there, but there's
really not a platform right nowthat can pull in all of that and
(18:29):
integrate it into a virtualspace. And so that was the big
elephant in the room that wewere trying to solve in a way
that was cost effective andefficient for nonprofits and
labor unions. We're gonna giveyou the best in class tools.
We're gonna allow you tointegrate with any third party
tool that you'd like all on onestreamlined platforms. So that
(18:52):
that is a it's a big problem tosolve, and that's what we've
been solving and iterating on atNEP for now a decade.
Speaker 2 (19:01):
Wow. No. That's awesome. So I wanna dive a
little bit deeper into, like,what's the cost, or does it
kinda range, or how do youcharge for this?
Speaker 3 (19:12):
Again, in a pricing strategy, when you first start
out, you know, you have a goalin mind, what you think the
market will bear, what what willnonprofits, what can nonprofits
afford, What's appropriate? Youknow, one of our goals at NEP is
we're working with nonprofits.We wanna make sure that the
maximum number of dollars raisedgoes back to the cause. So how
(19:34):
do we be efficient with buildinga very cost effective platform?
So we're proud that our ourlatest iteration and version, we
have communication platforms andwebsites that start at $99 a
month for nonprofits that arejust starting out and labor
(19:54):
unions that are small all theway to enterprise level support,
you know, for organizations thatare state level and
international.
So we've been able to build avery flexible platform that
allows and and encourages eventhe smallest nonprofit to get
the best tools in the industry,and we're very proud of that. We
(20:15):
want you to be excited to launchyour nonprofit and make an
impact in your community. And Iwanna make sure that I can give
you the best tools to do thatthat are affordable and cost
effective as you grow.
Speaker 2 (20:28):
No. That that makes a lot of sense. So, obviously,
some of these, well, nonprofitsor or especially maybe on the
union side, the sales cycle canbe either probably pretty quick
or maybe, like, you know, ayear, two years, somewhere in
there. What's your advice or howhave you landed some of these
(20:49):
bigger accounts? Because I'msure they were challenging.
Speaker 3 (20:55):
Yeah. I mean, of course, everyone wants that
sweet spot with your thatcustomer. Right? The customer
that can go on your website,make a decision, download the
product, and train themselves.But in the reality of business,
that's very unlikely.
Ask any director of customersuccess or any team of customer
success individuals. They'regonna tell you a completely
(21:17):
different story. So, you know,you obviously, we wanna make our
mark with enterprise levelclients. That that gives us a
breadth and depth to ourplatform. It gives us that
street credibility.
And now, you know, having youknow, this is our third
iteration of the platform. We'vehad enterprise customers for,
(21:37):
you know, over five years. Andso that sales process and cycle
takes time. So what we've doneis we've really pushed our
platform to allow organizations,especially enterprise, to jump
on a freemium model to testdrive the platform early. And
(22:00):
then we build a scope for thoselarger enterprise clients, and
we really start looking at howtheir data of their union
members or nonprofit or theirdonors are constructed.
So we've hired on not only datahygiene experts, people that are
database engineers so that theycan help manage the data and
(22:22):
organize the data before welaunch an enterprise customer's
platform. So that that is a hugechallenge when you're dealing
with these large customers, butwe built on teams of people with
that expertise because thecustomer is not the expert in
that. We need to provide thatexpertise, and that does shorten
your delivery cycle. But it it'sit's still a challenge. But what
(22:45):
I always tell our groups is baddata in, bad results.
And so it's better that we spendtime in the in the enterprise
build process to clean theirdata up first. And so we yeah.
NEP also does that for ourcustomers.
Speaker 2 (23:00):
No. That that makes a lot of sense. So it sounds like
are you building custom, like,features sometimes for certain
clients, or are you just kindacleaning the data to get it into
your platform, a bit of both?How does that kinda work?
Speaker 3 (23:14):
Yeah. Unfortunately and unfortunately, you know,
we're doing both. We're we'rewe're Kinda have to. Yeah. You
kinda have to in this world.
I mean, 80% of our customers useour platforms as they are. Yeah.
But we're constantly watching,you know, what are the user
behaviors? What are the topfeatures being requested? What
(23:35):
are the top tickets?
One of the things I always sayis that we need to stare ugly in
the face. What part of ourplatform is not being used? What
part of our platform needs to beenhanced? And so we're Yeah.
Speaker 2 (23:48):
That's interesting.
Speaker 3 (23:48):
Focusing we're focusing being on being very
client centric, very clientfocused. What is the feedback
customers are giving us? What dothey not like? It's it's much
more difficult, and some peoplecan take it personally, but
you've gotta stare ugly in theface and focus on fixing those
problems early, talking tocustomers, getting their real on
(24:10):
the ground feedback. So I remindour customer success team and
our directors across the companyconsistently to listen to
customers.
Let's read these tickets. Let'stalk about them. Let's have
conversations on what's workingwell and what's not working
well. We can't avoid that. Weshould be fixing those problems
early and including ourcustomers in that conversation.
(24:32):
So I spent a lot of time atmeetings on the ground, having
great conversations withcustomers and asking the hard
questions. What don't you like?What's really not effective on
the platform? And that's givenus really great feedback over
the last decade, and I thinkthat's what's led to our success
today is our customers'feedback, is our customers'
(24:53):
commentary.
Speaker 2 (24:54):
No. I think that's actually really good advice. I'm
curious though, how do youmanage, like, getting actual
good feedback? Because sometimesit's like, yeah, I like it.
You're like, that's not helpful.
Like, I wanna know, like, whatyou hate or what you don't like
or because you're gonna you andthe team are gonna have to come
up with probably the solution alot of the time because they're
(25:16):
not software people. But, like,how do you kinda manage that?
Because that's hard.
Speaker 3 (25:23):
Yeah. You're you're gonna have those customers that
just want to, you know,complain. But I think it's all
about building relationshipswith your customer base. So, you
know, our customer success team,although we have all of the
great software strategies of aticket system and and automated
bug reporting and all of that,you still need to have a
(25:44):
conversation with yourcustomers. You still need to
build a relationship with yourcustomers, and then that's how
you build that dialogue chain.
You know, sometime people have ahard time telling you what's not
working. They
Speaker 2 (25:56):
Yeah. They
Speaker 3 (25:57):
you know, some some customers don't have a problem
telling you what's not working.And so it's about identifying
those strong customerrelationships, working those up
the chain. And then I I spend alot of time going to meet them
in person. I've never I've neverspared any expense saying, hey.
You know, let's sit down in aroom.
Let me let me, you know, orderin lunch, and let's sit in a
(26:18):
boardroom. And I really, reallywanna dig into you. When you
show them that type of respectYeah. They're gonna really give
you some great feedback. And soour active users that are very
highly engaged in the platform,we know that those are the areas
and those are the individualsthat we can have these really
robust conversations.
And you're right. We come upwith the software solutions, but
(26:41):
truly the best ideas come fromthe marketplace.
Speaker 2 (26:44):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (26:45):
So the more you listen to your your key
customers, the ones that arereally using the platform, I
think the stronger youriteration and your solution set
will be for that customer andfor your customers. It's when
you try to to design things in ablack room with only software
people is when you waste a lotof time and a lot of money.
Speaker 2 (27:07):
Yeah. Well, and a lot of times the people actually
doing the design and developmentaren't the customer. They're not
the actual user of the platform.And arguably, I always say,
like, some somebody or maybe allthe team might even hate the
software because they're not thetarget user. But if the target
user loves it or they want thebutton orange instead of purple,
(27:29):
for example, it's like, well,we're gonna make the button
orange because, like, that'swhat our users want.
Right? And I think founderskinda can forget that in my
experience sometimes. It's like,well, are you the user? Well,
maybe you might hate it. But ifyour users love it, well, what
are you gonna do here?
You probably wanna go with theuser, not you.
Speaker 3 (27:45):
No. You told you hit the nail right on the head and
and that's what I mean by youcan't design or iterate in a
black room in your conferenceroom by yourself with just your
developers because if yourdevelopers had their way, your
platform would be 100% differentthan what the consumer, what the
marketplace, what your what yourusers actually need. And so you
(28:06):
have to take your ego out of thedevelopment process. You as a
founder, you are you are anempty vessel, and you really
should be echoing now, again,you should lead, but you should
also listen closely to what yourcustomers are saying. You should
look at the data of how yourcustomer base is using the
(28:26):
platform because I agree withyou.
There have been plenty of timeswhere I'm in a I'm in a room,
and I'm saying there's no waywe're gonna design it like that.
Speaker 2 (28:35):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (28:35):
But I'm wrong. I I really have to be looking
listening and looking at whatthe customers need. What are
their needs? Right? And when youlisten to the marketplace, you
take your ego out of the buildprocess.
It it totally changes yourapproach to building a platform
and to solving the problembecause ultimately, it's your
users. It's your customer'sproblem you're trying to solve,
(28:58):
not your own. You gotta takeyourself out of that. Yeah. And
that's hard to do.
Speaker 2 (29:02):
That's really hard. Yeah. No. I I think that's
actually really good advice. I'mcurious though, and I think
because your user base and youI'm guessing here is probably
somebody that's very technicalall the way down to, like, not
technical at all.
And designing and building forthat range of people is really
(29:23):
challenging in itself.
Speaker 3 (29:26):
Yes. I I mean, every every SaaS platform has a
variety of challenges, but ouruser base, you know, are they
tend to be older. Okay. Youknow, they're not they're not
out there in the metaverse. Youknow, they're not spinning up,
you know, YouTube videos anddance marathons.
(29:47):
We're we're talking about a userbase that is a little bit less
familiar with onlineapplications. So, yes, we've had
to really think very, very, verylong and hard about how to make
it really easy. So one of therules that I say is nothing
should be more than three steps.Even if you're gonna run a very
(30:11):
complicated membership reportand you have 10,000 members in
your union
Speaker 2 (30:16):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (30:17):
How do we how do we make the filtering and the
membership reporting process soeasy that my grandmother can use
it. Yep. And so it's taking verycomplicated processes
traditionally and breaking themdown into very clear steps and
then trying to automate this asmuch as possible. So one of the
(30:37):
areas I'm most proud about NEPConnect and our Connect Plus
membership platform is that it'sa database that really anyone
can use. And you can drag anddrop.
You can change the display ofhow your member's data is being
shown. So and you don't need adatabase engineer to do that.
(30:58):
You can drag and drop it on yourscreen as a user. Anyone can do
that. And when you get toreporting on the data, which is
the most important part as a asa organization, you can
customize, a report in the clickof a button, click of a button
three times.
One a, b, and c, and you canpull out a very complicate what
(31:20):
should be a very complicatedmembership report, but it's
gonna it's gonna export in afiltered way very, very easy for
that user. And when I showcustomers how to do that, I've
never seen so much excitementover a database. And and that
makes us very happy. How do wetake something super challenging
and make it very, very easy fora set of users that don't have
(31:44):
as much computer skills as maybesome of us.
Speaker 2 (31:47):
Which is actually really hard to do. Like, make
something complicated simple inan application.
Speaker 3 (31:54):
Yeah. And and and this hasn't happened overnight.
You know, this is ten years ofiteration.
Speaker 2 (32:00):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (32:00):
But going back to having relationships with your
customers from day one, beingable to ask the hard questions
and say, yeah. That that sucks.It doesn't work very well. What
do you think? How what are youropinion?
How should it work? Listeningand having conversations with
your customers, being customercentric. That's how we were able
(32:20):
to make something that wasreally, really difficult into
something now that is fairlysimple for the average user. It
was it's not a process thathappens overnight. It's a lot of
iteration, a lot ofconversations, a lot of
difficult conversations also.
Speaker 2 (32:35):
No. I that's really good advice. So how does AI
apply to NEP? Are you working onit? The are you currently using
it?
Walk us through that.
Speaker 3 (32:46):
Yeah. I I'm I'm someone who loves the next best
thing as maybe a lot of yourlisteners can agree with. You
know, I'm always keeping my eyesand ears open as to what's
happening in the marketplace.We've been following AI and
dabbling in it for years. And Ithink now it's such an exciting
opportunity for any type ofplatform like mine because
(33:09):
there's so many tools that wecan now integrate, and I don't
have to build them.
You know? I just I don't need tobe the master of all, and I
don't want to be. By the way, noone should want to be the master
of all. So there's a lot of alot of innovations that are
happening in real time. And so,yeah, we're we're embedding and
incorporating AI features intoour platform now both on the
(33:33):
user communication side.
Right? So how to just makecommunicating easier, that's
just a win for our customerbase. I wanna write this email.
I wanna send this text message.You know, write this for me.
That gives our customerssomething immediately that they
can use. But also on the morecomplicated, so cleaning data,
(33:55):
the data hygiene process. Whenyou're importing 25,000 member
records into a member managementsoftware, that data needs to be
in a better place. You know,those email addresses need to be
validated. Lots of data hygienethat needs to happen.
And so we're working on somemore complicated solutions to
how do we make the data hygieneprocess cleaner and easier? How
(34:18):
do we make it easier and moreefficient, by the way, for our
customers and NEP's customersuccess team to help customers
upload their data and getstarted quickly? So that that
launch point, I think, with thehelp of AI is gonna go from, you
know, six months, like you askedme earlier, to hopefully six
(34:38):
weeks. And so that's some of ourtarget goals using AI. And it's
very exciting time.
I'm one of those people thatwants to embrace every AI tool
in the market, and it's my teamthat holds me back.
Speaker 2 (34:50):
No. Makes sense. So I wanna well, I've been thinking
about this since I asked it awhile ago. Like, so you work
with maybe some of your largerclients and maybe some of the
custom stuff to add in newfeatures. When you roll those
features out, are you rollingthose out to all your clients
and maybe they don't use them,or are you just rolling them out
(35:11):
to a specific client or ahandful of clients?
Like, how do you manage those,like, custom feature requests?
Speaker 3 (35:19):
Well, one of the ways that we manage is we take a deep
breath and know that everyonewill always want everything.
Speaker 1 (35:25):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (35:26):
And so I think the first part about those custom
feature requests is the abilityto say no, and that was very
hard for me and our team to dobeing so customer centric. Yep.
It's the, you know, the deviland the angel on your shoulder.
You want to be customer centricand listen to your customers,
but you also need to say no.Yeah.
Because that's not the long termvision of the company and the
(35:49):
platform. And so you have to askyourself questions like, will
this benefit, you know, 80% ofmy customers, or will this
benefit my enterprise levelcustomers, you know, in the next
five years, in the next twoyears? Does this really build
upon our product road map? Doesthis enhance our product road
map, or does this change thenature of my platform entirely?
(36:11):
And so when you lean into, doesit change the nature of my
platform?
You've gotta say no. But if itdoesn't do that and it enhances
your road map and it's gonnareally bring value back to your
entire to most of yourcustomers, I should say 80% is
the target that I I look to,then we really start to get
(36:32):
into, well, how do we map thatout? What does that look like?
And so what I'm really proudabout, our new Connect Plus
association management solutionis that we can both deploy these
enterprise level changes to oneinstallation, or we can make
them available across the entireplatform. And so when we did our
(36:52):
our rebuild just recently, thatwas one of the big corporate
challenges we wanted to solve.
Speaker 2 (36:58):
Okay.
Speaker 3 (36:59):
It's how do we find that balance? How do we deploy
these customizations that arereally needed for enterprise
level customers? But also, andin some cases, make those
available across a platform. Sowe've been able to do that. And,
again, that's time and time andingenuity on what's gonna work
well for NEP NEP's platform, andthey connect post platform over
(37:21):
the next five years.
How do we build scale?
Speaker 2 (37:23):
Right.
Speaker 3 (37:24):
So that was a big challenge for our developers.
Speaker 2 (37:26):
No. No. It makes a lot of sense. I I'm curious
though, how do you manage themaintenance of those features
that are maybe only rolled outto a few enterprise customers?
Because, like, that's where youcan really get kinda lost in the
weeds.
Right? Or, like, those featuresjust stop working because, like,
it's you have a lot going on.Right?
Speaker 3 (37:46):
Yeah. Maintenance is it's really not the build as you
accurately noted. It's the longterm technical debt and
maintenance of those customfeatures. So we've been able to
do it in a way wecompartmentalize a lot of our
maintenance packaging, both onthe feature set, but also on the
platform. And so our team spendsa lot of time thinking about how
(38:09):
do we how do we make sure thateverything is maintained both
for security and usability andfeature updates and all of that
across the platform.
So it's truly all built forglobal use, but it's only
deployed in local installations.So that when we do massive,
updates and and maintenanceissues, we address that feature
(38:30):
by feature. So, yes, that'sprobably the number one
consideration when buildingcustom features is what is the
long term maintenancerequirement, and burden for you
as a business.
Speaker 2 (38:43):
Yeah. No. I think that's really good advice. So
you and the team were recentlynominated or, well, won the Fast
Company, like, one of the mostinnovative companies in North
America. How did that come to beand kind of like, that's
congrats on that.
That's huge.
Speaker 3 (39:00):
Thank you. Yeah. The the innovation award was by Fast
Company was a surprise to us. Wegot number eight in all of North
America, which
Speaker 2 (39:09):
Which is huge.
Speaker 3 (39:10):
To be to yeah. It's huge.
Speaker 2 (39:12):
To be on the list. Make the list. Never mind the
top 10.
Speaker 3 (39:15):
Exactly. To be on the same list with Amazon and and
Treger and all these incrediblecompanies leading the way for
decades and decades, it was it'squite an honor. And I think, you
know, from a softwareperspective and from a client
perspective, we're in amarketplace that people
traditionally don't look at.
Speaker 2 (39:34):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (39:34):
And so we've been really committed to our industry
and to our marketplace, andwhere we've taken a lot of steps
to elevate nonprofits and laborunions to have the same best in
class tools as everyone elsehas. And so it was really nice
to be recognized by Fast Companyand other publications as well
as, you know, nonprofits are abillion dollar industry. If we
(40:00):
wanna look at it from a freemarket perspective, The US is
one of the most generouscountries in the world. Our
citizens raise, they are reallyactive in their communities. A
lot of great people doing a lotof great work, making a huge
impact for those that are lessfortunate, whether it's on the
health care side and innovationswith grants and research
(40:22):
projects all the way to yourlocal community foundation, Ron
McDonald, the local boys andgirls club.
Speaker 2 (40:28):
Right.
Speaker 3 (40:29):
There's a lot of business in the world of
nonprofit. So it was great thatdespite nonprofit or labor union
marketplace, they're getting thesame recognition, you know, as
as Fortune 500 corporations onthe stock exchange. They do a
lot of great impacts in The US,so it was great to be featured
as a private company servingthat that those institutions.
Speaker 2 (40:52):
Yeah. No. That's that's really awesome. So I'm
curious. Is there anything elsethat you wanna mention related
to the platform or other advicethat you'd maybe wanna pass on
to others whether they're in thespace or just, you know, doing a
startup and being anentrepreneur?
Because you guys have beenaround a very long time and, you
(41:13):
know, you've had a bunch ofsuccess.
Speaker 3 (41:16):
Well, I think first and foremost, you know, we're
we're incredibly honored to berecognized by Fast Company. You
know, we're innovating withpurpose at the core of it. Every
every single person that workson our team, we're all really
committed to helping ourclients. So there's a lot of
passion, that's that drives ourproduct development, our
(41:39):
maintenance, you know, customersuccess. We help others make a
difference in their community.
So our platforms, whether it'shelp a hero crowdfunding,
communitypetition.com, whichhelps you deploy a free online
petitions to get, you know, yourmessage out, Connect Plus
membership management solutionthat helps manage a database and
(42:03):
have best in class communicationsoftware all in one space, and
the native mobile app that goesalong with that, all of these
products. We're just verypassionate about delivering
innovative, best in classsoftware to nonprofits and labor
unions. So that's been thedriving force behind everything
that we do. I'm very lucky. Iget to wake up every day and
(42:27):
know that my work helps a lot ofpeople, and it helps a lot of
people make a bigger impact.
So I I love what we do. I loveworking in the nonprofit space.
I love working with firstresponder organizations, having
their back on a daily basis. Youknow? There are people that risk
their lives every day to keepour community safe.
(42:48):
They run into burning buildings.
Speaker 2 (42:50):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (42:50):
So making sure that they're supported, their labor
unions are supported, theirfoundations are supported, that
we have their backs. And ourwhole team is very passionate
about giving back, and I'm I'mvery fortunate to have a
wonderful set of colleagues buteach one of them in their own
way is passionate about givingback in some way. And that's why
(43:11):
they work here. They get to workin tech plus, you know, make
their community stronger.
Speaker 2 (43:17):
No. I I no. I think that that's really great. I'm
curious, though, is the teamkind of spread out across North
America, the world? How doesthat kinda work?
Or do you have an office or abit of both?
Speaker 3 (43:28):
Yeah. We we have three corporate headquarters.
Speaker 2 (43:30):
Okay.
Speaker 3 (43:31):
One in DC, One in Austin, and then our our head
original headquarters, our OGheadquarters in Newport Beach,
California. But we were we weredoing remote work before it was
a cool thing, before COVID.
Speaker 2 (43:44):
Sure.
Speaker 3 (43:45):
So we've we've built a team of engineers, of
developers, customer supportpeople, accounting across the
country. So I think we havecustomers and customers and
employees in 34 states
Speaker 2 (43:58):
That's cool.
Speaker 3 (43:59):
Which is exciting. And they all bring a different a
different vibe and a differentculture piece to our internal
culture, so we love that. Sowe've been doing remote work for
years.
Speaker 2 (44:09):
Oh, that's that's great. So how will we close the
show with mentioning wherepeople can get more information
about yourself, NEP, and anyother links you wanna mention?
Speaker 3 (44:18):
Yeah. Well, if you need any type of technology for
labor unions, nonprofits, ifyou'd like to raise money,
manage your membership, you cango to our website,
nepservices.com. You can send usa message. You can reach out to
us on LinkedIn. Again, that'sNEP Services, or, you know, hit
(44:39):
me up on LinkedIn as well, andwe'd be happy to work with your
organization and make themstronger and help you innovate.
Speaker 2 (44:47):
Perfect, Stacy. Well, I really appreciate you taking
the time out of your day to beon the show, and I look forward
to keeping in touch with you.And have a good rest of your
day.
Speaker 3 (44:53):
Thank you so much, Kevin. Have a great day, and and
thanks so much.
Speaker 2 (44:57):
Thank you. K. Bye.
Speaker 1 (44:59):
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Welcome to building the future hosted by Kevin
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(00:22):
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Speaker 2 (00:34):
Welcome back to the show. Today, have Stacy Yudin.
She's the CEO of NEP Services.Stacy, welcome to the show.
Speaker 3 (00:41):
Thank you. Good morning.
Speaker 2 (00:43):
Yeah. I'm excited to have you on the show. I think
what you guys are doing isreally innovative and cool. But
maybe before we get into allthat, let's get to know you a
little bit better and start offwith where you grew up.
Speaker 3 (00:56):
Sure. I'm a California girl, born and
raised, Huntington Beach. Yes. Ilive I live in Laguna Beach now,
so I'm very, very lucky we havegreat weather. I went to UCLA,
so any Bruin fans out there.
Speaker 2 (01:12):
Very cool. What did you take, at UCLA and why?
Speaker 3 (01:17):
Oh, wow. Well, life takes a variety of turns, but I
was a history major, and I was,you know, first gonna go to
medical school and did all mysciences, but decided that life
as an entrepreneur was much moreexciting and and innovating and
invigorating, I should say, thanthan following a career in
(01:38):
medicine.
Speaker 2 (01:38):
Okay. So how did you or what made you figure that
out? Was there, like, a definingmoment, or how did that come to
be?
Speaker 3 (01:48):
You know, you know, I'm a big proponent of doing,
you know, summer classes and andtraveling and getting outside of
your city. And and I spent a lotof time working with
international nonprofits. Iworked with US campaign for
Burma and for UNICEF. And alongthose journeys, I was able to
experience working outside ofthe scope of my community. And I
(02:12):
realized that there was I I wasgeared towards a life in
business, and I love solving bigproblems, and big challenges
were exciting, not intimidating.
And so being an entrepreneurand, you know, really, really
innovating, you know, difficultproblems was more attractive to
me than maybe spending time oneon one with patients. I thought
(02:36):
I could make a bigger impact,working on the business side
than I could, you know, one onone.
Speaker 2 (02:42):
Got it. Okay. So walk us through your career up until
coming to NEP, and then let'stalk about your career and
because you've had a number ofpositions there, and now you're
CEO.
Speaker 3 (02:54):
Yeah. So my I first started off working with, like I
said, international nonprofit. Iwas working for the David Geffen
School of Medicine
Speaker 2 (03:03):
Oh, cool.
Speaker 3 (03:03):
In the program in global health, working on
international research projects.We were basically creating these
research sites and using it asan opportunity to train medical
students, doctors, and residentsabout, that particular research
grant in that particularcountry.
Speaker 2 (03:22):
Cool.
Speaker 3 (03:23):
So it was an opportunity for me to really get
on the ground and say, okay.Well, how do we start this
clinic? How do we start thiseducation program? You know,
setting up everything from wherepeople are gonna stay to the
actual facility and and payrolland, equipment. And so it was
just kinda like starting a smallbusiness in different country
(03:44):
with a variety of regulationsand stop gaps and hurdles and
challenges at the local level aswell as well as at, the
institutional level.
So that was, you know, that myfirst real opportunity to solve
some big challenges, and and weended up building seven
different international researchfacilities and sites and seven
(04:08):
different training programsaround the world. And we're
we're very, very proud of whatwe've done and been able to
train local doctors and havelocal experts also provide
training to US Physicians. Andso it was a really, great
experience as far as startingsomething from zero. I mean,
(04:28):
from concept, you know, awhiteboard and some paper and
pens to, you know, a full blowntraining facility.
Speaker 2 (04:38):
Very cool. So how did you find out about NEP and and
kinda get involved with them?And then let's talk about kind
of your rise there, and thenlet's dive into what, you guys
do.
Speaker 3 (04:49):
NEP Services was providing fundraising services
through direct mail for, firstresponder organizations, on the
West Coast, and I happened tomeet the founder. And I we were
I was taking a look at hisbusiness as a consultant, and we
had a lot of conversations abouthow could we do more for these
nonprofits. Right? We werehandling a lot of the
(05:11):
transactions in the marketingside, but the the idea and the
big vision was what if we buildplatforms that would help the
nonprofit be more efficient? Youhelp them communicate and market
better to their donors, includethe donors in the conversation
of how they're driving impactfor that community.
And so the you know, again, backto the whiteboard, back to the
(05:34):
pen and paper, what was that bigvision, and then then the hard
work started where we had to putthat into action. So that that
was the beginning of our dream,when we first started building
NEP services technologyplatforms, and that was about a
decade ago.
Speaker 2 (05:50):
Okay. So walk us through that journey and what is
it today and kind of let's diveinto the services and offerings
of the software.
Speaker 3 (05:59):
Yeah. So NEP Services now provides advanced
fundraising and communicationplatforms for nonprofits, labor
organizations, five zero one cthrees that help them transform
their marketing and internaloperations.
Speaker 2 (06:16):
Okay.
Speaker 3 (06:17):
So one of one of the areas of impact I always talk to
nonprofit leaders about is thatyou have to run your nonprofit
like it's a business. So youneed to think about your
internal operations, how you canstreamline and make those
effective, as well as yourfundraising strategy. Right.
(06:37):
Nonprofits a lot of time focuson, we've gotta raise money.
We've gotta raise money.
That's our bread and butter, andthat is 100% of your budget is
how much you can raise from yoursupport from your supporters and
donors.
Speaker 2 (06:49):
Right.
Speaker 3 (06:50):
But the other side of that is how do you be really
strategic with the vendors andpartners that you choose, and
then how do you operate youractual nonprofit operations? And
you should you should approachit like a business. So choosing
best in class solutions foraccounting, choosing best in
class solutions for yourwebsite, and all the other
(07:13):
administrative tools that youneed, not just the most cost
efficient solution. Somethingthat it can really future proof,
set you up for success in yournonprofit.
Speaker 2 (07:23):
No. That makes sense. Well and you want the because
you have to when you putyourself out there to your,
like, to your users as anonprofit, like, if they have a
terrible experience, they're notgonna wanna use your platform or
your website or whatever.Correct?
Speaker 3 (07:38):
Yeah. I mean, it's just like a business with a
customer. You know, you wannamake sure that you're presenting
yourself in the best light.You're communicating effectively
with that, you know, customer ordonor. Either they're
effectively the same thing,you're selling, the impact that
you're making as a nonprofit.
So you wanna make sure thatyou're engaging your audience
(07:59):
just like you would for anybusiness. And so the tools that
you're using need to be at thatsame caliber as if you're a
Fortune 500 company. So one ofmy biggest challenges as at that
time was a consultant anddirector of business development
any at NEP was, how do youdesign products that are as good
as best in class products forFortune 500 companies, but at a
(08:24):
a budget level for a nonprofitthat's just getting going?
Speaker 2 (08:28):
Right.
Speaker 3 (08:28):
So how do you how do you make that affordable? How do
you fit that market, fornonprofits that don't have as
much discretionary spend asFortune five hundred companies?
So that was one of our biggestchallenges when we're designing
and investing into theseproducts is making sure that
they're they could be priced inthis marketplace appropriately.
(08:51):
That that's a whole another showprobably on pricing strategy.
Speaker 2 (08:55):
Well, can you maybe dive a little bit deeper into
that? Because I like you said,obviously, that I think is a
challenge. Even I think as a lotof start ups, just getting early
customers sometimes just pricingcan be a challenge. Right? So
how have you kind of solvedthat?
Speaker 3 (09:10):
Yeah. So I think one of one of the areas where NEP
really, really did well and wereally did well early on was not
overbuilding our product.
Speaker 2 (09:20):
Okay.
Speaker 3 (09:20):
So as an entrepreneur, you know, we all
have ideas, and it it's reallyeasy to have great ideas. And I
hate to say that, but what'sdifficult is implementing a
great product using your ideas.And so it's really about paring
down what you're gonna buildinto your MVP. You should be
(09:41):
building the least amount ofyour ideas as possible, holding
yourself back from jumping offthe cliff no matter how exciting
that might seem, building atleast at least amount of
features as possible, and theniterating off of actual customer
feedback. And and I've I've readthat that is not a new
(10:02):
recommendation.
I didn't come up with thatrecommendation, but it's really,
really hard to follow becausethere's a lot of excitement, and
you get a lot of tractioninitially with your platform.
But what happens is that you'reunable to iterate any one
feature well enough to besuccessful long term. So I I I
(10:25):
now tell everyone, you know, allmy entrepreneur friends and
young business owners thatreally wanna dive in a % into
their product is that holdyourself back, build as build it
build it as small as you can sothat you can focus on iterating
piece by piece. What that doeslater is it also allows you to
(10:47):
have a less expensive productbecause you've invested less
upfront. So you're gonna be ableto enter the market and keep
your price points as low aspossible so that you can get
either early adopters or atleast have a little bit of a a
wider margin when it comes toyour pricing strategy down the
road.
Speaker 2 (11:08):
I % agree with you. But how have you kinda managed,
or what's your advice for that?Because, obviously, you have a a
road map. You have featurerequests from clients. You might
have, like, a big customerthat's maybe willing to pay you
to develop some features, or youmight have a customer saying,
we'll sign up if you add thesethree to five things or whatever
(11:29):
the number is.
So, like, how have you managedthat? Because that's really
challenging.
Speaker 3 (11:37):
That is probably the most challenging part of this.
And I can admit to everyone onthe air who's listening to this
that I didn't I didn't make theright decision a lot of the
times because you do get pulledin with these what you've you've
you see then as your keycustomer, as your ideal
customer. They pull you in withthe idea that, oh, we're gonna
(11:57):
refer everyone and Yeah. Yeah.We're gonna use this platform.
They kind of sell you in a way.
Speaker 2 (12:02):
Interesting. Yeah.
Speaker 3 (12:03):
You you get you get wrapped in with the idea of, you
know, this is someone who'sgonna elevate my platform to the
next level. I'm gonna be able todemonstrate their use cases and
their success. And so I wouldjust you know, I I had a lot of
business mentors at this pointin my career as well, and they
cautioned me on the same thingthat I would say is that you
(12:26):
really, really need to hold holdyour platform close and not get
not get sold on on your customeruser base and be really, really
strategic with what you buildout, not overbuild. Because I
did overbuild on my firstplatform. My first version of my
of NEP Connect are membershipcommunication and engagement
(12:49):
software for unions andnonprofits.
It we we were very successful.We scaled in eighteen months to,
over almost three quarters of amillion users, which is a huge
success, very successful. But wewe overbuilt some features, and
we were at these scale wallsthat we've now had to to
(13:13):
basically refactor. And so Ilooked back at a few key
customers, and I spent too muchtime focusing on a couple key
customers who kinda promised methe world. And I didn't spend
enough time looking at theentire platform analytics and
your your your your 80% of yourusers.
(13:36):
What are they doing on theplatform? Where are they
spending their time? Whatfeatures are they using the
most? What are what are theinnovations, and what are the
use cases that I need to bedeveloping for 80% of my
customer base? Not not the 20%that maybe is screaming the
loudest or selling me on whatthey're gonna do for the
(13:57):
platform.
So it's a hard absolutely avery, very hard line to walk.
Speaker 2 (14:04):
No. I I hundred percent agree. So I wanna dive a
little bit deeper into whatexactly do people get with the
platform, and is there add ons?Like, how does it kinda work
when you're onboarding a newuser or or, I guess, like, union
or whoever?
Speaker 3 (14:21):
Yes. Again, another another great example of a a
challenge we learned building aplatform for unions and
nonprofits is that the use casesare varied, very varied. You
know, this is not just one typeof customer who's going out and
buying a car and wants this typeof experience during the sale
(14:41):
process. When you're workingwith labor organizations,
unions, first responderorganization, nonprofits, they
all have a very, very diverseset of needs. So our our latest
version of Connect Plus, ourmembership database engagement
(15:01):
and member experience platformis a brand new kind of entry
point into the marketplace ofhow do we create early adopters
for nonprofits?
How do we how do we give thedonor experience the feeling
that they're they're workingalongside the nonprofit every
day? How do we help unionsengage their membership? And so
(15:25):
we do that through an all in onesoftware that allows the union
or nonprofit to deploycommunications. So emails, text
message, encrypted documents,and a membership space in the
cloud where they can have twoway conversations with their
donors or with their members allin one ecosystem. And so it's
(15:48):
kinda like the metaverse wrappedinto a website where that donor
can get engaged with thatnonprofit as much or as little
as they want to.
Same with unions and theirmembers. A union member needs to
pay their dues. They wannacommunicate with their nonprofit
or their their organization.They need to look at their
(16:10):
benefits. They can do all ofthat inside of this virtual
union space that we call ConnectPlus.
And so it's really been able toconnect the union to their
members or the nonprofit totheir donors.
Speaker 2 (16:26):
Okay. And so what because you have a bunch of,
like, like, they can have awebsite. They can have a few
other things. Like, let's dive alittle bit deeper into some of
the other features that oncethey get the kind of core that
they can kind of expand on.
Speaker 3 (16:41):
Oh, yeah. Once they build out this virtual office
and this virtual space thatallows them to run the
nonprofit, communicate withtheir members, keep their
membership data, they can expandand really start to deliver
strategic marketing. So, youknow, they can attach their web
site. They can add on virtualvoting. They can do surveying to
the community.
(17:02):
We have a platform called Help AHero, which allows our
nonprofits to raise fundssecurely through a a
crowdfunding web site, that dataof those donors is automatically
embedded into their web platformwith us. And so one of the areas
where we stand out is that I'vetaken the time to integrate each
(17:24):
one of these separate tools intoConnect Plus that their entire
operation is streamlined. And wehave that interoperability,
which allows the the leaders todo things a lot easier than
they're used to. They don't haveto spend their time behind a
desk. You know?
The data from their membershipand from their donors are all
(17:45):
integrated into one platform,which is a a big lift when
you're talking about managing anonprofit or managing a labor
union.
Speaker 2 (17:54):
Yeah. Well and the other thing too is not having
to, like, have this tool for onething, this tool for another
thing, this tool, like and thentrying to integrate and get all
the data from all those is anightmare.
Speaker 3 (18:06):
Right? It's one of the biggest, yeah, it's
absolutely one of the biggestchallenges I think for anyone
who's running a business,nonprofit or other. I've got a
texting tool over here. I've gotan email, Mailchimp, Constant
Contact over here. I've got awebsite with Wix.
A lot of amazing, incredibletools out there, but there's
really not a platform right nowthat can pull in all of that and
(18:29):
integrate it into a virtualspace. And so that was the big
elephant in the room that wewere trying to solve in a way
that was cost effective andefficient for nonprofits and
labor unions. We're gonna giveyou the best in class tools.
We're gonna allow you tointegrate with any third party
tool that you'd like all on onestreamlined platforms. So that
(18:52):
that is a it's a big problem tosolve, and that's what we've
been solving and iterating on atNEP for now a decade.
Speaker 2 (19:01):
Wow. No. That's awesome. So I wanna dive a
little bit deeper into, like,what's the cost, or does it
kinda range, or how do youcharge for this?
Speaker 3 (19:12):
Again, in a pricing strategy, when you first start
out, you know, you have a goalin mind, what you think the
market will bear, what what willnonprofits, what can nonprofits
afford, What's appropriate? Youknow, one of our goals at NEP is
we're working with nonprofits.We wanna make sure that the
maximum number of dollars raisedgoes back to the cause. So how
(19:34):
do we be efficient with buildinga very cost effective platform?
So we're proud that our ourlatest iteration and version, we
have communication platforms andwebsites that start at $99 a
month for nonprofits that arejust starting out and labor
(19:54):
unions that are small all theway to enterprise level support,
you know, for organizations thatare state level and
international.
So we've been able to build avery flexible platform that
allows and and encourages eventhe smallest nonprofit to get
the best tools in the industry,and we're very proud of that. We
(20:15):
want you to be excited to launchyour nonprofit and make an
impact in your community. And Iwanna make sure that I can give
you the best tools to do thatthat are affordable and cost
effective as you grow.
Speaker 2 (20:28):
No. That that makes a lot of sense. So, obviously,
some of these, well, nonprofitsor or especially maybe on the
union side, the sales cycle canbe either probably pretty quick
or maybe, like, you know, ayear, two years, somewhere in
there. What's your advice or howhave you landed some of these
(20:49):
bigger accounts? Because I'msure they were challenging.
Speaker 3 (20:55):
Yeah. I mean, of course, everyone wants that
sweet spot with your thatcustomer. Right? The customer
that can go on your website,make a decision, download the
product, and train themselves.But in the reality of business,
that's very unlikely.
Ask any director of customersuccess or any team of customer
success individuals. They'regonna tell you a completely
(21:17):
different story. So, you know,you obviously, we wanna make our
mark with enterprise levelclients. That that gives us a
breadth and depth to ourplatform. It gives us that
street credibility.
And now, you know, having youknow, this is our third
iteration of the platform. We'vehad enterprise customers for,
(21:37):
you know, over five years. Andso that sales process and cycle
takes time. So what we've doneis we've really pushed our
platform to allow organizations,especially enterprise, to jump
on a freemium model to testdrive the platform early. And
(22:00):
then we build a scope for thoselarger enterprise clients, and
we really start looking at howtheir data of their union
members or nonprofit or theirdonors are constructed.
So we've hired on not only datahygiene experts, people that are
database engineers so that theycan help manage the data and
(22:22):
organize the data before welaunch an enterprise customer's
platform. So that that is a hugechallenge when you're dealing
with these large customers, butwe built on teams of people with
that expertise because thecustomer is not the expert in
that. We need to provide thatexpertise, and that does shorten
your delivery cycle. But it it'sit's still a challenge. But what
(22:45):
I always tell our groups is baddata in, bad results.
And so it's better that we spendtime in the in the enterprise
build process to clean theirdata up first. And so we yeah.
NEP also does that for ourcustomers.
Speaker 2 (23:00):
No. That that makes a lot of sense. So it sounds like
are you building custom, like,features sometimes for certain
clients, or are you just kindacleaning the data to get it into
your platform, a bit of both?How does that kinda work?
Speaker 3 (23:14):
Yeah. Unfortunately and unfortunately, you know,
we're doing both. We're we'rewe're Kinda have to. Yeah. You
kinda have to in this world.
I mean, 80% of our customers useour platforms as they are. Yeah.
But we're constantly watching,you know, what are the user
behaviors? What are the topfeatures being requested? What
(23:35):
are the top tickets?
One of the things I always sayis that we need to stare ugly in
the face. What part of ourplatform is not being used? What
part of our platform needs to beenhanced? And so we're Yeah.
Speaker 2 (23:48):
That's interesting.
Speaker 3 (23:48):
Focusing we're focusing being on being very
client centric, very clientfocused. What is the feedback
customers are giving us? What dothey not like? It's it's much
more difficult, and some peoplecan take it personally, but
you've gotta stare ugly in theface and focus on fixing those
problems early, talking tocustomers, getting their real on
(24:10):
the ground feedback. So I remindour customer success team and
our directors across the companyconsistently to listen to
customers.
Let's read these tickets. Let'stalk about them. Let's have
conversations on what's workingwell and what's not working
well. We can't avoid that. Weshould be fixing those problems
early and including ourcustomers in that conversation.
(24:32):
So I spent a lot of time atmeetings on the ground, having
great conversations withcustomers and asking the hard
questions. What don't you like?What's really not effective on
the platform? And that's givenus really great feedback over
the last decade, and I thinkthat's what's led to our success
today is our customers'feedback, is our customers'
(24:53):
commentary.
Speaker 2 (24:54):
No. I think that's actually really good advice. I'm
curious though, how do youmanage, like, getting actual
good feedback? Because sometimesit's like, yeah, I like it.
You're like, that's not helpful.
Like, I wanna know, like, whatyou hate or what you don't like
or because you're gonna you andthe team are gonna have to come
up with probably the solution alot of the time because they're
(25:16):
not software people. But, like,how do you kinda manage that?
Because that's hard.
Speaker 3 (25:23):
Yeah. You're you're gonna have those customers that
just want to, you know,complain. But I think it's all
about building relationshipswith your customer base. So, you
know, our customer success team,although we have all of the
great software strategies of aticket system and and automated
bug reporting and all of that,you still need to have a
(25:44):
conversation with yourcustomers. You still need to
build a relationship with yourcustomers, and then that's how
you build that dialogue chain.
You know, sometime people have ahard time telling you what's not
working. They
Speaker 2 (25:56):
Yeah. They
Speaker 3 (25:57):
you know, some some customers don't have a problem
telling you what's not working.And so it's about identifying
those strong customerrelationships, working those up
the chain. And then I I spend alot of time going to meet them
in person. I've never I've neverspared any expense saying, hey.
You know, let's sit down in aroom.
Let me let me, you know, orderin lunch, and let's sit in a
(26:18):
boardroom. And I really, reallywanna dig into you. When you
show them that type of respectYeah. They're gonna really give
you some great feedback. And soour active users that are very
highly engaged in the platform,we know that those are the areas
and those are the individualsthat we can have these really
robust conversations.
And you're right. We come upwith the software solutions, but
(26:41):
truly the best ideas come fromthe marketplace.
Speaker 2 (26:44):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (26:45):
So the more you listen to your your key
customers, the ones that arereally using the platform, I
think the stronger youriteration and your solution set
will be for that customer andfor your customers. It's when
you try to to design things in ablack room with only software
people is when you waste a lotof time and a lot of money.
Speaker 2 (27:07):
Yeah. Well, and a lot of times the people actually
doing the design and developmentaren't the customer. They're not
the actual user of the platform.And arguably, I always say,
like, some somebody or maybe allthe team might even hate the
software because they're not thetarget user. But if the target
user loves it or they want thebutton orange instead of purple,
(27:29):
for example, it's like, well,we're gonna make the button
orange because, like, that'swhat our users want.
Right? And I think founderskinda can forget that in my
experience sometimes. It's like,well, are you the user? Well,
maybe you might hate it. But ifyour users love it, well, what
are you gonna do here?
You probably wanna go with theuser, not you.
Speaker 3 (27:45):
No. You told you hit the nail right on the head and
and that's what I mean by youcan't design or iterate in a
black room in your conferenceroom by yourself with just your
developers because if yourdevelopers had their way, your
platform would be 100% differentthan what the consumer, what the
marketplace, what your what yourusers actually need. And so you
(28:06):
have to take your ego out of thedevelopment process. You as a
founder, you are you are anempty vessel, and you really
should be echoing now, again,you should lead, but you should
also listen closely to what yourcustomers are saying. You should
look at the data of how yourcustomer base is using the
(28:26):
platform because I agree withyou.
There have been plenty of timeswhere I'm in a I'm in a room,
and I'm saying there's no waywe're gonna design it like that.
Speaker 2 (28:35):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (28:35):
But I'm wrong. I I really have to be looking
listening and looking at whatthe customers need. What are
their needs? Right? And when youlisten to the marketplace, you
take your ego out of the buildprocess.
It it totally changes yourapproach to building a platform
and to solving the problembecause ultimately, it's your
users. It's your customer'sproblem you're trying to solve,
(28:58):
not your own. You gotta takeyourself out of that. Yeah. And
that's hard to do.
Speaker 2 (29:02):
That's really hard. Yeah. No. I I think that's
actually really good advice. I'mcurious though, and I think
because your user base and youI'm guessing here is probably
somebody that's very technicalall the way down to, like, not
technical at all.
And designing and building forthat range of people is really
(29:23):
challenging in itself.
Speaker 3 (29:26):
Yes. I I mean, every every SaaS platform has a
variety of challenges, but ouruser base, you know, are they
tend to be older. Okay. Youknow, they're not they're not
out there in the metaverse. Youknow, they're not spinning up,
you know, YouTube videos anddance marathons.
(29:47):
We're we're talking about a userbase that is a little bit less
familiar with onlineapplications. So, yes, we've had
to really think very, very, verylong and hard about how to make
it really easy. So one of therules that I say is nothing
should be more than three steps.Even if you're gonna run a very
(30:11):
complicated membership reportand you have 10,000 members in
your union
Speaker 2 (30:16):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (30:17):
How do we how do we make the filtering and the
membership reporting process soeasy that my grandmother can use
it. Yep. And so it's taking verycomplicated processes
traditionally and breaking themdown into very clear steps and
then trying to automate this asmuch as possible. So one of the
(30:37):
areas I'm most proud about NEPConnect and our Connect Plus
membership platform is that it'sa database that really anyone
can use. And you can drag anddrop.
You can change the display ofhow your member's data is being
shown. So and you don't need adatabase engineer to do that.
(30:58):
You can drag and drop it on yourscreen as a user. Anyone can do
that. And when you get toreporting on the data, which is
the most important part as a asa organization, you can
customize, a report in the clickof a button, click of a button
three times.
One a, b, and c, and you canpull out a very complicate what
(31:20):
should be a very complicatedmembership report, but it's
gonna it's gonna export in afiltered way very, very easy for
that user. And when I showcustomers how to do that, I've
never seen so much excitementover a database. And and that
makes us very happy. How do wetake something super challenging
and make it very, very easy fora set of users that don't have
(31:44):
as much computer skills as maybesome of us.
Speaker 2 (31:47):
Which is actually really hard to do. Like, make
something complicated simple inan application.
Speaker 3 (31:54):
Yeah. And and and this hasn't happened overnight.
You know, this is ten years ofiteration.
Speaker 2 (32:00):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (32:00):
But going back to having relationships with your
customers from day one, beingable to ask the hard questions
and say, yeah. That that sucks.It doesn't work very well. What
do you think? How what are youropinion?
How should it work? Listeningand having conversations with
your customers, being customercentric. That's how we were able
(32:20):
to make something that wasreally, really difficult into
something now that is fairlysimple for the average user. It
was it's not a process thathappens overnight. It's a lot of
iteration, a lot ofconversations, a lot of
difficult conversations also.
Speaker 2 (32:35):
No. I that's really good advice. So how does AI
apply to NEP? Are you working onit? The are you currently using
it?
Walk us through that.
Speaker 3 (32:46):
Yeah. I I'm I'm someone who loves the next best
thing as maybe a lot of yourlisteners can agree with. You
know, I'm always keeping my eyesand ears open as to what's
happening in the marketplace.We've been following AI and
dabbling in it for years. And Ithink now it's such an exciting
opportunity for any type ofplatform like mine because
(33:09):
there's so many tools that wecan now integrate, and I don't
have to build them.
You know? I just I don't need tobe the master of all, and I
don't want to be. By the way, noone should want to be the master
of all. So there's a lot of alot of innovations that are
happening in real time. And so,yeah, we're we're embedding and
incorporating AI features intoour platform now both on the
(33:33):
user communication side.
Right? So how to just makecommunicating easier, that's
just a win for our customerbase. I wanna write this email.
I wanna send this text message.You know, write this for me.
That gives our customerssomething immediately that they
can use. But also on the morecomplicated, so cleaning data,
(33:55):
the data hygiene process. Whenyou're importing 25,000 member
records into a member managementsoftware, that data needs to be
in a better place. You know,those email addresses need to be
validated. Lots of data hygienethat needs to happen.
And so we're working on somemore complicated solutions to
how do we make the data hygieneprocess cleaner and easier? How
(34:18):
do we make it easier and moreefficient, by the way, for our
customers and NEP's customersuccess team to help customers
upload their data and getstarted quickly? So that that
launch point, I think, with thehelp of AI is gonna go from, you
know, six months, like you askedme earlier, to hopefully six
(34:38):
weeks. And so that's some of ourtarget goals using AI. And it's
very exciting time.
I'm one of those people thatwants to embrace every AI tool
in the market, and it's my teamthat holds me back.
Speaker 2 (34:50):
No. Makes sense. So I wanna well, I've been thinking
about this since I asked it awhile ago. Like, so you work
with maybe some of your largerclients and maybe some of the
custom stuff to add in newfeatures. When you roll those
features out, are you rollingthose out to all your clients
and maybe they don't use them,or are you just rolling them out
(35:11):
to a specific client or ahandful of clients?
Like, how do you manage those,like, custom feature requests?
Speaker 3 (35:19):
Well, one of the ways that we manage is we take a deep
breath and know that everyonewill always want everything.
Speaker 1 (35:25):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (35:26):
And so I think the first part about those custom
feature requests is the abilityto say no, and that was very
hard for me and our team to dobeing so customer centric. Yep.
It's the, you know, the deviland the angel on your shoulder.
You want to be customer centricand listen to your customers,
but you also need to say no.Yeah.
Because that's not the long termvision of the company and the
(35:49):
platform. And so you have to askyourself questions like, will
this benefit, you know, 80% ofmy customers, or will this
benefit my enterprise levelcustomers, you know, in the next
five years, in the next twoyears? Does this really build
upon our product road map? Doesthis enhance our product road
map, or does this change thenature of my platform entirely?
(36:11):
And so when you lean into, doesit change the nature of my
platform?
You've gotta say no. But if itdoesn't do that and it enhances
your road map and it's gonnareally bring value back to your
entire to most of yourcustomers, I should say 80% is
the target that I I look to,then we really start to get
(36:32):
into, well, how do we map thatout? What does that look like?
And so what I'm really proudabout, our new Connect Plus
association management solutionis that we can both deploy these
enterprise level changes to oneinstallation, or we can make
them available across the entireplatform. And so when we did our
(36:52):
our rebuild just recently, thatwas one of the big corporate
challenges we wanted to solve.
Speaker 2 (36:58):
Okay.
Speaker 3 (36:59):
It's how do we find that balance? How do we deploy
these customizations that arereally needed for enterprise
level customers? But also, andin some cases, make those
available across a platform. Sowe've been able to do that. And,
again, that's time and time andingenuity on what's gonna work
well for NEP NEP's platform, andthey connect post platform over
(37:21):
the next five years.
How do we build scale?
Speaker 2 (37:23):
Right.
Speaker 3 (37:24):
So that was a big challenge for our developers.
Speaker 2 (37:26):
No. No. It makes a lot of sense. I I'm curious
though, how do you manage themaintenance of those features
that are maybe only rolled outto a few enterprise customers?
Because, like, that's where youcan really get kinda lost in the
weeds.
Right? Or, like, those featuresjust stop working because, like,
it's you have a lot going on.Right?
Speaker 3 (37:46):
Yeah. Maintenance is it's really not the build as you
accurately noted. It's the longterm technical debt and
maintenance of those customfeatures. So we've been able to
do it in a way wecompartmentalize a lot of our
maintenance packaging, both onthe feature set, but also on the
platform. And so our team spendsa lot of time thinking about how
(38:09):
do we how do we make sure thateverything is maintained both
for security and usability andfeature updates and all of that
across the platform.
So it's truly all built forglobal use, but it's only
deployed in local installations.So that when we do massive,
updates and and maintenanceissues, we address that feature
(38:30):
by feature. So, yes, that'sprobably the number one
consideration when buildingcustom features is what is the
long term maintenancerequirement, and burden for you
as a business.
Speaker 2 (38:43):
Yeah. No. I think that's really good advice. So
you and the team were recentlynominated or, well, won the Fast
Company, like, one of the mostinnovative companies in North
America. How did that come to beand kind of like, that's
congrats on that.
That's huge.
Speaker 3 (39:00):
Thank you. Yeah. The the innovation award was by Fast
Company was a surprise to us. Wegot number eight in all of North
America, which
Speaker 2 (39:09):
Which is huge.
Speaker 3 (39:10):
To be to yeah. It's huge.
Speaker 2 (39:12):
To be on the list. Make the list. Never mind the
top 10.
Speaker 3 (39:15):
Exactly. To be on the same list with Amazon and and
Treger and all these incrediblecompanies leading the way for
decades and decades, it was it'squite an honor. And I think, you
know, from a softwareperspective and from a client
perspective, we're in amarketplace that people
traditionally don't look at.
Speaker 2 (39:34):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (39:34):
And so we've been really committed to our industry
and to our marketplace, andwhere we've taken a lot of steps
to elevate nonprofits and laborunions to have the same best in
class tools as everyone elsehas. And so it was really nice
to be recognized by Fast Companyand other publications as well
as, you know, nonprofits are abillion dollar industry. If we
(40:00):
wanna look at it from a freemarket perspective, The US is
one of the most generouscountries in the world. Our
citizens raise, they are reallyactive in their communities. A
lot of great people doing a lotof great work, making a huge
impact for those that are lessfortunate, whether it's on the
health care side and innovationswith grants and research
(40:22):
projects all the way to yourlocal community foundation, Ron
McDonald, the local boys andgirls club.
Speaker 2 (40:28):
Right.
Speaker 3 (40:29):
There's a lot of business in the world of
nonprofit. So it was great thatdespite nonprofit or labor union
marketplace, they're getting thesame recognition, you know, as
as Fortune 500 corporations onthe stock exchange. They do a
lot of great impacts in The US,so it was great to be featured
as a private company servingthat that those institutions.
Speaker 2 (40:52):
Yeah. No. That's that's really awesome. So I'm
curious. Is there anything elsethat you wanna mention related
to the platform or other advicethat you'd maybe wanna pass on
to others whether they're in thespace or just, you know, doing a
startup and being anentrepreneur?
Because you guys have beenaround a very long time and, you
(41:13):
know, you've had a bunch ofsuccess.
Speaker 3 (41:16):
Well, I think first and foremost, you know, we're
we're incredibly honored to berecognized by Fast Company. You
know, we're innovating withpurpose at the core of it. Every
every single person that workson our team, we're all really
committed to helping ourclients. So there's a lot of
passion, that's that drives ourproduct development, our
(41:39):
maintenance, you know, customersuccess. We help others make a
difference in their community.
So our platforms, whether it'shelp a hero crowdfunding,
communitypetition.com, whichhelps you deploy a free online
petitions to get, you know, yourmessage out, Connect Plus
membership management solutionthat helps manage a database and
(42:03):
have best in class communicationsoftware all in one space, and
the native mobile app that goesalong with that, all of these
products. We're just verypassionate about delivering
innovative, best in classsoftware to nonprofits and labor
unions. So that's been thedriving force behind everything
that we do. I'm very lucky. Iget to wake up every day and
(42:27):
know that my work helps a lot ofpeople, and it helps a lot of
people make a bigger impact.
So I I love what we do. I loveworking in the nonprofit space.
I love working with firstresponder organizations, having
their back on a daily basis. Youknow? There are people that risk
their lives every day to keepour community safe.
(42:48):
They run into burning buildings.
Speaker 2 (42:50):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (42:50):
So making sure that they're supported, their labor
unions are supported, theirfoundations are supported, that
we have their backs. And ourwhole team is very passionate
about giving back, and I'm I'mvery fortunate to have a
wonderful set of colleagues buteach one of them in their own
way is passionate about givingback in some way. And that's why
(43:11):
they work here. They get to workin tech plus, you know, make
their community stronger.
Speaker 2 (43:17):
No. I I no. I think that that's really great. I'm
curious, though, is the teamkind of spread out across North
America, the world? How doesthat kinda work?
Or do you have an office or abit of both?
Speaker 3 (43:28):
Yeah. We we have three corporate headquarters.
Speaker 2 (43:30):
Okay.
Speaker 3 (43:31):
One in DC, One in Austin, and then our our head
original headquarters, our OGheadquarters in Newport Beach,
California. But we were we weredoing remote work before it was
a cool thing, before COVID.
Speaker 2 (43:44):
Sure.
Speaker 3 (43:45):
So we've we've built a team of engineers, of
developers, customer supportpeople, accounting across the
country. So I think we havecustomers and customers and
employees in 34 states
Speaker 2 (43:58):
That's cool.
Speaker 3 (43:59):
Which is exciting. And they all bring a different a
different vibe and a differentculture piece to our internal
culture, so we love that. Sowe've been doing remote work for
years.
Speaker 2 (44:09):
Oh, that's that's great. So how will we close the
show with mentioning wherepeople can get more information
about yourself, NEP, and anyother links you wanna mention?
Speaker 3 (44:18):
Yeah. Well, if you need any type of technology for
labor unions, nonprofits, ifyou'd like to raise money,
manage your membership, you cango to our website,
nepservices.com. You can send usa message. You can reach out to
us on LinkedIn. Again, that'sNEP Services, or, you know, hit
(44:39):
me up on LinkedIn as well, andwe'd be happy to work with your
organization and make themstronger and help you innovate.
Speaker 2 (44:47):
Perfect, Stacy. Well, I really appreciate you taking
the time out of your day to beon the show, and I look forward
to keeping in touch with you.And have a good rest of your
day.
Speaker 3 (44:53):
Thank you so much, Kevin. Have a great day, and and
thanks so much.
Speaker 2 (44:57):
Thank you. K. Bye.
Speaker 1 (44:59):
Thanks for listening. Please visit our website at
buildingthefutureshow.com tojoin the free community, sign up
for our newsletter, or tosponsor the show. The music is
done by Electric Mantra. You cancheck him out at
electricmantra.com and keepbuilding the future.
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