Why Leaving Corporate with Chronic Illness Feels So Scary (and What Helps) | Liz Carmines - Business With Chronic Illness

Episode Transcript
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Nikita (00:00):
This episode is for the woman who's listening while

(00:03):
sitting in her car after work orscrolling job boards on LinkedIn
while managing pain flares.
Wondering, is this really it?
Is this what I have to settlefor just because my body is
unpredictable?
If you have ever wanted to leaveyour nine to five but felt like

(00:24):
it was too risky, especiallywith your health, you're not
alone.
This episode is for you.
I'm talking with Liz Carmines, abusiness owner and a chronic
illness warrior who made theleap from corporate to running
her own business whilenavigating pain, brain fog, and
all the emotional weight thatcomes with trying to stay fine

(00:47):
at work when you're anything,but we're actually talking about
what that might look like foryou, but also what it looked
like for her.
We talk honestly about the fearof leaving a job with benefits,
how guilt shows up when you'retrying to keep it together, and
what it actually looks like tobuild a business that supports

(01:09):
you, not drains you.
So if you've been asking, whatif I can't keep this up, or what
if I finally choose myself andit still doesn't work?
This is the reason why you needto keep listening, take a
breath, and know that you're notcrazy, you're courageous, you're
hopeful, and you're allowed towant more.

(01:33):
So let's dig in.

Nikita's voice (01:38):
Welcome to Business with Chronic Illness,
the Globally Ranked podcast forwomen living with chronic
illness who want to start andgrow a business online.
I'm your host, Nikita Williamsand I went from living a normal
life to all of a sudden being inconstant pain with no answers to
being diagnosed with multiplechronic illnesses.
And trying to make a livableincome.
I faced the challenge ofadapting traditional business

(02:01):
advice to fit my uniquecircumstances with chronic
illness, feeling frustrated andmore burned out than I already
was while managing my chronicillness to becoming an
award-winning coach with aflexible, sustainable online
coaching business.
I found the surprisingly simplesteps to starting growing a
profitable business withoutcompromising my health or my

(02:22):
peace.
Since then, I've helped dozensof women just like you learn how
to do the same.
If you're ready to create athriving business that aligns
with your lifestyle andwellbeing, you're in the right
place.
Together, we're shifting thenarrative of what's possible for
women with chronic illness andhow we make a living.
This is business with chronicillness.

(02:49):
Well, I am really excited aboutthis episode because we're gonna
be talking about.
Rain fog and pain and doing thatwhen you're trying to start a
business or transition from yourbus, like from your full-time
life of your job into abusiness.
And I haven't really had a, aguest on the show talking about
this.
I've talked about my ownjourney.

(03:09):
I've talked about just how I'veseen it happen with my clients,
but I thought would be nice tohave this chat with our, our Liz
Welcome.
Liz, welcome.
Hi.

Liz Carmines (03:18):
Thank you for having me.

And she is an amazing business owner.
But before we get into a littlebit about her introduction, I'd
love to chat with you to hearabout how did, like being in a
full-time job or in a, in a,like a, in a corporate
environment or whatever type ofenvironment affect living with
pain and when was the, thechoice of being like, I need to

(03:42):
start my own business.
Like when did that happen foryou?
I.

Yeah, so I had a full-time job working at a large
nonprofit, so it was kind oflike corporate nonprofit, so to
say.
I was super fortunate because Ihad a pretty flexible work life
and work schedule in that theywere the type of organization
that were like, we were supposedto be online, right?
Like we, we had our hours andthings, but they weren't like,

(04:07):
oh, you were gone for an hour.
Where were you?
You know, it wasn't that type ofenvironment, so.
In a way, I felt like I had alot of flexibility, but I also
had a lot of guilt.
And so during this, I worked atthis job for a year.
And I was also working, startingto build my business on the
side.
I had a few freelance clients onthe side, and at the time I was

(04:27):
really going through thisjourney of trying to like get
some answers about my health.
Spoiler alert.
I never really got them, but Iwas going, I was going to
different doctors.
That would take me a while,right?
So like I would be gone forlike.
Half of the day, sometimes.
I remember there's this, I wasliving outside of Washington DC
There was this one doctor Iwanted to go to and I took a

(04:51):
bus, I took the train, I tookanother bus to get there.
So it was like an hour to getthere.
You know, this hour and a halflong appointment, an hour back.
And of course these doctors arelike, you have to go during the
daytime, Monday through Friday,and.
I just remember feeling a lot ofguilt about it and also the
emotional burden of all of thatwas really, really challenging
at the time.

(05:11):
The nonprofit also, I felt likeI had this big emotional burden
because we were a disasteremergency response organization.
It was the war in Ukraine wasjust starting.
I was the social media manager,so I was working weekends, I was
working evenings.
If new information came outabout.
This war going on.
Like I needed to be one of thepeople that was online.

(05:33):
And so I'm kind of dealing bothwith both of these emotional
things at once of my job.
And it's like this emotionalburden of these stories and
telling these stories and theother side of it, of giving all
this, getting all thisinformation, spending the time,
spending the money, yeah.
Trying to figure things out.
It was a lot.
I would say I'm grateful that Ihad this flexible environment

(05:54):
where no one made me feel bad,but I felt, I felt the corporate
guilt.
Right?
Like even if no one put it onme,

I have been there.
Yes.
Mm-hmm.

Yeah.
And ultimately there were a lotof reasons I decided I.
To shift from working thefull-time job forever to doing
my, my business.
Honestly, I wanted the full-timejob to be my path.
Mm.
It felt easier.
Like I really, really wantedthat to be for me.
Mm.
You know, the benefits, thehealthcare, yeah.
All of those things like Iwanted it to be for me, but I

(06:23):
just realized that like therewas this part of me that would
never be settled in thatenvironment.
I wanted to kind of like spreadmy wings.
I wanted to lead my own life,and I did find it really
appealing that.
I could, once I went working onmy own, that like if there's a
day where I'm just struggling, Idon't have to force myself to

(06:44):
sit at that computer all day andget work done.
I can decide this is just gonnabe, I'm gonna take the L on this
morning and I'm not gonna work.
Mm-hmm.
That was attractive to me too.
Mm-hmm.
So that was, there were a lot ofreasons, but that was one of the
reasons I was like, if I workfor myself, if I'm not feeling
good one day, I don't have toapologize to anyone.
I don't have to explain myselfto anyone.

(07:04):
I can just take that time and noone will know the difference.
So that was part of it for sure.

Yeah, I mean there's so much part, so, so
many parts of those that I canrelate to and also that I know
lots of the folks listening haveexperienced or are currently
experiencing, right?
Especially if they are workingfor environments.
They might be working for areally great company that does,
you know, give them thatflexibility even though judgment
even, you know, I do think thoseare fewer than many of those,

(07:34):
but some of us have those, youknow, some of those folks have
those jobs and I'm like.
Bless you.
Bless that.
You have that.
But I felt the same way.
Like when I worked in corporate,it was one of those things where
it was the guilt, but it wasalso like, what are you guys
thinking about me?
Like that was part of mythought.
Like, what are you thinkingabout me?
If you see that I'm not here orthat I can't do something or.

(07:58):
I'm gone for so many hoursbecause I went to a doctor's
appointment.
It's like, what are youthinking?
I was very concerned at the timebefore.
I know a lot about my mindsetwork that I did with
entrepreneurship, but I wasreally concerned about that and
I didn't want my reputation tobe tainted by like I.
She's lazy, she just doesn't doanything.
I had a lot of those thoughtsthat were a part of my

(08:19):
experience in corporate.
And then also I literally, in mycorporate job, literally there
was like twice that people hadto literally take me to the
hospital.
And that was also likeembarrassment and shame and all
of these things.
Like, I don't know if I can livemy life like this.
Yeah.
So I can relate to like eventhough, and the company, my
company too was pretty decent.
It was pretty decent, but it wasalso like, man, I.

(08:41):
I just want more freedom andautonomy of my own time, my own
agency, and like you said, if Iwanna stay in bed and don't
wanna get out, I don't, I, Idon't wanna be thinking what are
they thinking?

Yeah, for sure.
For me, there was also some ofthose times where like we would
have big team retreats where,you know, we were mostly a
remote team and so everyonewould fly in and you'd have
these like two or three longdays in a row in the office
where it's kind of like.
We are all here for thisretreat.
You kind of have to be there andwe're gonna stay late for
dinner.
And those were some of myhardest days where I'm just like

(09:12):
taking painkillers all day totry to get through it, right?
Like I have this headache andI'm like.
I just need to lay down rightnow, but I just have to smile
and be so happy to be here.
Mm.
And that was hard too, and itwasn't that often, but it is.
Those things that were like,those were some of my worst
times because I just had to pushthrough.
Yeah.
For days and days and days.

(09:34):
And so I never have to do thatanymore.
Yeah.
And I love that, like that I, Idon't have to do that anymore.

Yeah, it's a hint.
Do you think it's theanticipation too, like knowing
that those, that time is comingwhere you do have to quote
unquote be on and you don't knowif you'll be able to be on
without being on like

Yeah, well, yeah.
Especially when you, like I wasworking hybrid so I would have
days in the office, but I couldkind of leave whenever I felt
like it, you know, I wouldusually, I would usually stay
'cause I would, I would try tobe there and like socialize and
stuff, but like I knew that if Icould leave.
Or if I had wanted to leave, Icould.
And I think it's also just that,like not being used to that,

(10:12):
like not being used to having topush through like I was used to
being able to like go home andtake a nap if I really needed
to.
Right.
Or, or whatever.
So yeah, partially, I, I thinkthat was part of it.

Yeah.
So you were saying that you kindof, you kind of transitioned
into, were kind of workingfreelance at the time.
Was it within the social withpurpose, like mm-hmm.
So tell us a little bit aboutthat.
So give us a little bit more oflike an introduction of like
your business where you are nowand how did, let's just do that

(10:45):
first.
Okay.
I'm asking too many questions.

No, you're not asking too many questions.
Yeah.
Okay.
So social purpose came to be.
I sort of had like a false
start
before I had this full-time job.
I, I wanted to start social withpurpose, but a co and I started
it.
I started working with clients.
I started taking on somefreelance gigs, and about six
months in, I just was like, I amnot prepared for this

(11:08):
responsibility.
I wasn't charging enough tolive.
Mm-hmm.
You know, like I was, I wasn'tgo, I didn't know how to run a
business and I was in my earlytwenties, and so that just felt
like.
I was like, I just don't have torush this.
So I ended up applying andgetting this full-time job and
it felt great and I was reallyexcited.
Like I said, I was like, well,maybe I don't even need to do

(11:31):
social with purpose.
Maybe I will just love workingin this environment and have a
full-time job and that would bemy life.
And so I actually kind of took asmall break from social with
purpose.
When I started this job, Icontinued my commitments with
some of my clients.
But in, in terms of likemarketing the business and
building the business, I reallytook a break so I could give the
job a fair shake and see is thisgonna make me happy?

(11:54):
But ultimately, you know, likethat desire creeped back in of
wanting to do it.
So I was super blessed then thatI had this runway, like I had
this full-time job.
I would work on the evenings andweekends, continuing working
with clients, and then I alsoused that time to build my
website, do some of thosebackend business things so that
when it came time that I got theitch to just.

(12:16):
Go all in.
I felt pretty prepared.
Mm.
Like it was a scary leap, likeany leap.
Mm-hmm.
But it wasn't as scary as thefirst time around when I
literally was just, I had noidea what I was doing.
Mm-hmm.
So I'm super, super gratefulthat I gave myself that time and
built some things beforehand.
Obviously there's still a lot tofigure out as you go, but that

(12:38):
made the transition a loteasier.
And that was.
Last March that I left thefull-time job.
So I've been full-time in mybusiness a little over a year
now, and now I'm at this pointwhere I'm kind of like figuring
out what's the next level.
Mm-hmm.
Which is really exciting.
I have myself, I have a couplefreelancers working with me,
which is really fun, and I'mkind of just figuring out how to

(12:59):
grow and how to maintain thevision that I've always had and
maintain the quality and youknow, the relationships with
clients and things whilecontinuing to grow.

Yeah, I love that.
Like it's a leap you can haveevery, this is the thing I think
we all think, I think we allthink we can have like perfect
situation all the way through tomake this leap.
Like we have everything dialedin and I do think we can do a
really good job of preparation.
Like so I know like you werejust sharing like you kind of

(13:29):
had a runway, you kind ofprepare some things on the back
end.
I've even had clients like, youcan have a savings account and
like you can have all of thesethings, but like I.
Still, it's gonna be scary.
Mm-hmm.
It still is gonna be scary.
Like you will have thoughtsabout it.
I think one of the biggestthings that I find for those of
living with chronic illness,though, one of the bigger fears

(13:52):
is, or pain like and fatigue islike, am I capable of
maintaining this?
Hmm.
Like, am I capable of like, atleast with A JOB, right?
Like there are some.
How do I say this without how,what am I trying to say?
Obviously with a job, there arethe perks of having a job,
especially if you're W nine.

(14:13):
There's health insurance,there's FMLA, there's.
All this stuff that you can planfor that, that's part of your
benefits packages.
But when you're like, I wannastart my own business, you get
into your business, you'remaking money, and you're like,
it feels like there's no safetynet.
Mm-hmm.
And so the other thoughts comeup, right?
Am I capable of maintainingthis?

(14:34):
What did that look like for youwhen it came to like managing
your symptoms or the pain like.
What things did you kind of likehave to plan for, or did some
things come up that you weren'texpecting?

Yeah.
Okay.
I feel like this is a bigquestion, so I might take this
in a lot of differentdirections.
No, go ahead.
First of all, I would say that Idefinitely had the mentality of
wanting to be as ready aspossible.
Mm-hmm.
Before I quit my job, right?
Mm-hmm.
Like I wanted to have thesavings and all the things, but
it did get to a point where Iwas burning myself out trying to
do both things.
So that was my signal that itwas time, because I wanted to do

(15:12):
both.
And do both well, and you justcan't do that.
Right.
So, Ooh, such a good point.
I, that was my signal that like,okay, I need to have faith in
myself and jump.
That doesn't mean it's notterrifying.
It's, it was, it has beenterrifying and it continues to
be terrifying.
I have, I have days where I'mlike, wow, I feel so good about

(15:34):
this.
And then I have days wherepanic.
Induces and I'm like, can I dothis?
And I do think that my health isone of those things.
I often have the thought oflike, well, what happens if one
day I'm just not okay?
And that's part of the reasonI'm wanting to grow a team.
Mm-hmm.
Because I myself, if I'm notokay, I want my clients in the

(15:57):
business to continue and Iwanted, I wanna be able to
continue doing great work.
Mm-hmm.
That's part of it.
It's like my health.
Is pretty stable, but like youjust never know what's gonna
happen, especially when you'reliving with a chronic condition.
I think, I'm trying to think oflike all the, the pieces of your
question that I wanted to answermy bad for so

many parts of it.

No, no, no, no, you're fine.
I, I, I like the question.
So in terms of managing it.
I think that a couple things.
One, the health insurance thing,I've sort of just accepted that
it, it sucks and like, yes, nomatter what, like I've been on
so many different types ofhealth insurance.
I've been on alternative costsharing plans.

(16:40):
I've been on these differentthings and the thing that I've
just realized is like, I'm gonnahave to budget extra for that.
Yes.
For paying for things out ofpocket.
Mm-hmm.
And.
For me, I really try toprioritize budgeting for care,
so
mm-hmm.
Massages, chiropractor, going to those
like at least once a month I'vestarted doing acupuncture.

(17:02):
Those are all things that I'vejust realized I have to make
sure I budget for and Iprioritize.
Mm-hmm.
Because if I go more than liketwo weeks without any one of
those things, I feel it and Ifeel it a lot.
The other thing, this has beensomething that's like kind of
come up recently is.
I've tried to manage painthrough more holistic things

(17:23):
like acupuncture, massage, andsomeone recently just said to me
like, maybe you should go to achronic or to a pain pain.
Manage a pain management clinicand like see if they can
prescribe you something.
And I was always hesitant to dothat because when I first
started my experience with painwhen I was in high school, I did
get some.
Medications given to me that mybody didn't respond very well

(17:44):
to, and it was not a funexperience.
So I've kind of had this thingin my head that like, I don't
wanna go down that route becauseI don't want it to make me feel
worse in other ways.
Mm-hmm.
But the thing that I've realizedis like the flare ups will never
stop The, the pain will neverstop no matter how much wellness
and self care and all thosethings that I do.
Like I haven't crashed the codeon how to be perfectly fine all

(18:08):
of the time.
Mm-hmm.
And so I'm also trying to openmy mind.
To, to doing some of those otherthings.
Yeah.
And, and just exploring what'soptions are out there for me,
because I also realize that ifI'm in pain, if I'm fatigued, if
I have brain fog, I can'tperform well in my business and
like I want to perform well inmy business.
I want to show up consistently.

(18:28):
I want to do all those things.
And so I just have to say like,let me put the time and energy
into this, even though it'sexhausting.

Yeah, yeah.
You know, this is sointeresting.
It's an interesting thoughtaround like the.
Pain management specificallywith, I talk about this too, and
I think there's, there'smindset, and I'm working on this
too with my therapist.
Just this thought of, there'salmost been this kind of like
era of health wellness, of doingit the holistic way.

(19:00):
And then if you wanna add likedoing it not.
Like as a this and versus a thisor scenario of like western
medicine meets, you know,holistic medicine.
Like there's like this weirdtribe that's happening and we're
gonna get beat up in the cornerif we do one or the other,
whatever.
Right?
Like, it just feels like there'sa lot of thoughts around this.

(19:21):
And when you're running abusiness and you deal with pain,
like yes, the holistic methmethods work.
For the most part, they, they dohelp, but then there are
sometimes where there's noamount of breath work, oils,
tapping, acupuncture, drykneeling, that's gonna cut it.
Like one of my, my, myfunctional medicine doctor says

(19:42):
like, yeah, sometimes it's likebringing a gun to a a, a ni a
bring a knife to a gunfight.
Like literally there's not muchyou can do at that point.
And so.
We, I think we've all kind ofbeen conditioned depending on
how long you've been in thisgame of entrepreneurship online,
and you've seen the world ofholistic, taking care of
yourself and like eating betterand doing all these things, and

(20:05):
there's this mind drama around,should I take the medicine?
Mm-hmm.
Should I go to a pain managementspecialist?
What does that mean about me?
I'm not committed to being wholeand well, so there's, it's a
whole nother side of thisjourney, right?
For sure.

Yeah, and for me it's like just wanting to
explore options and know it'savailable.
And I got pretty burnt out ondoing that for a while.
So I took a break, like for awhile I was going to all the
doctors and, and my walletcouldn't do it anymore, and my,
my brain couldn't handle itanymore.
Yeah, it was too muchinformation.
It was too much having toexplain my situation again and

(20:42):
again and again, and getdifferent responses and it was
just.
So frustrating.
Yeah.
Like I had just got to thispoint where I was like, I cannot
go to any doctors right now.
Mm-hmm.
But it, it's kind of like wanting to go back into
that process, but maybe not as,as much as I was like mm-hmm.
You know, trying to find thatbalance between like, exploring
the options and getting answerswhile also just accepting that

(21:06):
like, I cannot go to everysingle doctor till I find the
answer I'm looking for.
Like, I just can't, like they'renot gonna have it and I can't.
My, my brain can't handle that,so yeah.
Yeah.
Just trying to like explorewithout burning myself out
again.
Yeah.
Because I do think a lot ofchronic patients get very burnt
out on healthcare.
Absolutely.
Um, just in general.
Yeah.

Yeah, this makes me think of episode 1 63.
I think when I talk about likethe chronic illness phases, like
there are different phases.
I feel like identities that wehave, I have been there as well
around like that burnout,feeling that like just
overwhelm, especially whenyou're first diagnosed.
And I would also offer this listjust from the context.

(21:49):
I don't know if that feeling ofburnout and stuff happened like.
In the beginning of whatever wasgoing on and you were trying to
figure everything out and itjust felt like, let me figure
everything out or, and nowyou're kind of past that phase
of like figuring everything out,if you will, but knowing like
it's kind of there and it justlike, I think when we're in that
newbie stage of chronic illness,it's.

(22:10):
It, it is extremely overwhelmingtimes like 200.

Yeah.

But I will offer, going back into like
trying to figure it out isactually a lot easier once
you've had space in that time.
Mm-hmm.
To know, like.
I'm gonna cap going to threedifferent rheumatologists
instead of trying to go to six,like, you know, like I'm gonna
cap, like having all of theselabs done, I'm gonna figure out
a way to like do'em all in oneplace and like y'all figure it

(22:37):
out.
Like there's different things wekind of have to like kind of
parse out, if you will,sometimes that I have found.
Because when we wanna go backinto like, how do we manage the
pain?
Our brains and our body likes togo back to that initial
experience and we're like, ohheck no.
Like we are never doing thatagain.

(22:58):
And so I have found for myselfpersonally and just also with
clients, like they're like, Idon't ever wanna go that through
again.
I'm like, well, let's just usethe parts of it that can empower
you now.

Yeah, for sure.
And that's definitely somethingI've had to learn too, is just
like setting boundaries like.
Around what information andadvice I'm willing to accept
from people.
Yeah, like sometimes the thingthat makes me so mad is when I
go, especially chiropractors, Igo to a chiropractor and they're
like, oh, you just have badposture.
I'm like, I'm sure I have badposture and it doesn't help that

(23:30):
I sit at a desk most of the day,but like.
Can you not erase over a decadeof pain?
That's not like I can say thatit's a part of it, but it is not
the whole thing.
And for you to reduce myexperience down to this one
thing, I will not accept thatand I will not come back and see
you again.
Mm-hmm.
And I've just had to learn tolike.

(23:51):
Really set boundaries and like,not take it personally and just
be like, you know what?
They don't get it.
They're not listening to me andI'm just gonna move on and find
someone else who will.
Yes.
And that's, that's all I want islike what you were saying before
is like the two things can betrue at once.
Situation.
Mm-hmm.
Where it's like you can doholistic healing and you can
also do pharmaceuticals orwhatever.
This too, like I can say, okay,I can work on my posture, but

(24:14):
like.
I know that's not gonna solveeverything going on.
Mm-hmm.
And so, yeah, just really,really like setting boundaries
and, and with people in my lifetoo, you know, like when you
have a headache and their firstthing they say is, oh, just
drink some water.
I'm like, you know that, that'snot what's going on here.
Right.
I'm sure drinking water couldn'thurt, but like.
It's not gonna make this wholesituation go away.

Yeah, exactly.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Totally love that.
Okay, so we kind of went offthere, but that's important
because I feel like we all, Idon't think we hear enough about
those kind of conversationsabout that paradigm of that tug
of war.
And I love that you said likeyou just accept that the
function, like figuring out thehealth insurance piece is just

(24:56):
gonna be difficult.
Something that I've startedincorporating this year is
something I call the heal meFun.
And that can look like,obviously the things you do to
take care of yourselfphysically, that.
Holistic things, but also likethe financial skill of saving
for these things that even ifyou had insurance, it's not
gonna cover it all.

(25:16):
Like getting into that mindset.
So I love that.
That's kind of like what youwere sha sharing about the
business aspect of things, ofmoving into like, I just have to
budget for it.
This is just what I have to do.
Mm-hmm.
Instead of, but we can only dothat if we like accept it.
Like we have to, like, we can'tjust hope that it doesn't
happen.
You
gotta plan for it.
You gotta plan it to the best ofyour ability.

(25:38):
And so that's one way that youcan do that.
So I love that to hear that,like that was kind of your
focus.
When it comes to something elseyou said about like building a
team, because there are gonna betimes that you can't do the
work.
How have you managed that foryourself?
Like do you have systems?

(25:58):
How did you build this team?
How did you train this team?
Like what did that look like foryou?
I.

Yeah, this is like, it's not really a.
What did it look like?
It's like, what is it lookinglike?
Because I'm really in the middleof this.
Mm-hmm.
But, so I've, I've actuallyalways had another freelancer
working with me.
She's my sister.
And so that's been reallyhelpful because we have this
relationship where like, I kindof can be like, Hey, can you
jump in and work on this?
Mm-hmm.
And she, we have thisunderstanding, right.

(26:26):
And she's been such a blessingand help to me, the one thing
that the, the ne, the very nexthire that I need was a virtual
assistant.
And I think that that is goingto, has already helped and will
continue to help.
She's really helped me set up aproject management system so
that everything is clear, likethe due dates and the files, and

(26:46):
where to find things.
And I think that's gonna be oneof the biggest pieces so that I
can say to anyone on my team.
Hey, this is what I want you towork on.
Everything is right here.
It's documented.
I don't need to like pull linksfrom this place and that folder
and all of those things.
It's already there.
The other thing I think is gonnabe really helpful is when I get
her to take over my emailbecause sometimes.

(27:07):
Email can be, especially whenI'm in the middle of like a
brain fog mm-hmm.
Responding to emails.
I don't know why it takes methree seconds, but it's one of
the most draining things.
No, it, it's

totally the most draining thing ever.
It

really is.
And so for me it's likeidentifying what are those
things that drain me.
And you know, if I'm having kindof an off day, what I wanna be
working on are the things thatfuel me.
Mm-hmm.
Making videos or editing cameragraphics, so things that are
just fun and creative andenjoyable and I can just put on
a movie in the background andmm-hmm.
You know, trying to figure outwhat are those things that I can

(27:40):
give to somebody else to takeoff my plate that really I can't
do when I'm not feeling well.
Versus what are the things thatlight me up that like I want to
hold for myself, like I want tocreate the time and space to do
them.
So that's kind of how I'm tryingto think about planning and
structuring a team.
Mm-hmm.
It kind of like to support me ina way.

(28:00):
And, and also, you know, therewill be evolutions of that where
like people have differentresponsibilities, but right now
what I'm focusing on are, arethose things.

Yeah.
Yeah.
I, I love that.
And absolutely.
Having support.
I just, first of all, I don'tunderstand how anybody does it
without like, and I getespecially, and I think for
those of folks that arelistening who are like, they are
in a corporate job and they areabout to transition, I actually
think if there's anything that Iwould've done differently, I

(28:29):
would've probably did that.
I would've hired a VA from theget go from that standpoint
before I was like folded into mybusiness because man, the amount
of.
Peace of mind.
I feel like just from, as achronic illness warrior, it
helps you so much to have apeace of mind that even if you
can't, client delivery, clientcommunication, client, whatever,

(28:54):
that you literally all have todo is like text or email this
other person and they go intolike fix it mode and you don't
have to.
Mm-hmm.
Alone, to me is just like.
Peace of mind that I will payfor.
Yeah, 100%.

Yeah.

Right.
And so I think a lot of times wethink about having a VA or
having support our business assomething that you need when
you're making KU money and likeyou're making like the seven and
six figures and everything'sjazzy and money's just rolling
in.
But I feel like for chronicillness warriors, we have to
almost.
Not almost, we have to likeconsider that as a cost of

(29:35):
business.
Mm-hmm.
And also as an ROI, and also what I like to
call an ROE into our business,our return of investment and a
return of energy.
Mm-hmm.
When you have a va.
Mm-hmm.
Because I just, I can't, I mean,even when I was broke, like,
broke, broke in my business, Ifound somebody on fiber, like
you can find somebody.

(29:55):
Yeah.
You know what I'm saying?
Yeah.
Like, so I think the idea oflike you can't have help until
you're at a certain amount ofincome level is usually why I
think businesses fail within thefirst one or two, three years.
And if you're living withchronic illness, that's even, I
think that's the other reasonwhy it happens.
I.

Yeah, for sure.
I mean, it, it's definitelyscary hiring.
Mm-hmm.
Because you feel like you'retaking on this big
responsibility.
You know, if I can't pay myselfone month in my business or pay
myself the full amount I wantedto or whatever, it's like I can
handle that, right?
Mm-hmm.
But if I can't pay somebodyelse, that's just not okay.
Mm-hmm.
And so.
It felt scary.

(30:31):
It felt overwhelming, but it isone of those things that like
once I just did it, she took somuch off my plate and, and this
applies I think, to anyentrepreneur, but like you said,
especially people with chronicillness that.
That has just taken so much offof my plate and freed me up to
focus so much on the things thatI wanna be doing.
And, you know, I've been able tokind of start taking every other

(30:51):
Friday off.
And it's just those littlethings that like, have felt so
good and, and now I'm not scaredanymore.
Mm.
I'm like, oh, I can sustainthis.
Like, I believe in my ability tocreate the revenue I need to
create.
To sustain this employment forthis person.
Yeah.
And, and now like, I've kind ofstarted hiring a few more
freelancers because once I'vejust hired the first one, I

(31:13):
don't really count my sisterbecause she's been with me since
the very beginning.
And like we just, I, it's justfunny how she got involved, but
this was like the first realhire for me.
And once I got past that andworked with her for like a
month, I was like, okay, what'smy next one?
Because it's just mm-hmm.
It, it does really free me up tojust, and the other thing is
like.

(31:34):
I need to create more time to beCEO of my business, right?
Mm-hmm.
Like, no, those are the thingsno one is doing for me.
Mm-hmm.
And, and I really need to createthat time to build the business
and strategize and, you know,plan and do all the
implementation then, and, andthat's how it's gonna have to
happen at this point.

Yeah.
I love that.
And I also, I wonder, do you,are you guys working on, like,
putting some systems in place sothat.
Like even if you can't deliveron the things that you enjoy
doing, that there is a processthat they can kind of follow.
Because I also think that's theother thing that happens for
most of us living with, I thinkentrepreneurs starting out in

(32:14):
general, but I specificallythink this is more tailored to
those living with chronicillnesses that we think some of
these things can wait.
And in reality, our flareupsdon't wait.
The pain doesn't wait.
The doctor's appointments andall these things don't wait.
So having these things in place,like a VA in systems now is what
literally is our safety net.
Yeah.
So like how has that looked likefor you?

(32:36):
I.

Yeah, we're, we're working on getting SOPs created,
so that'll be helpful.
And the other thing is, it just,I mean, it feels good knowing
that between my sister and myva, that two people know
everything that's going on inthe business.
Mm-hmm.
Like, even if it's not relevantto them, like they're, they're
not needing to work on itnecessarily right now.

(32:58):
I like to inform them like,okay, I have this new client,
we're working on this.
It's just kind of me and theclient, but like, you know,
maybe it's coaching orconsulting, but I still want
other people to kind of know.
And again, we're kind of likeworking to figure out what are
those systems, but it just helpsfor me to know that they're
clued in.
There's, I have created a clientcontacts document that my VA has

(33:20):
access to.
So if I were to send her thelike.
SOS message of whatever kind.
Mm-hmm.
She has contact with all of myclients that she could
communicate with them on mybehalf.
That I think is really helpful.
Yeah.
And, and knowing my sister onlike the, the deliverable side
mm-hmm.
She knows the systems andprocesses and she knows all the

(33:40):
new freelancers I'm hiring.
Mm-hmm.
So if, again, same thing on herside.
If, if I.
Had the SOS message to her, Icould say, okay, you know, all
the freelancers, these are thedeliverables that need to get
done with clients.
Please manage that.
And she, she just knows becauseshe's been doing it with me.
Mm-hmm.
So those are kind of how we're,we're managing it right now.
Yeah.
And I actually have reached outto a, a system strategist from

(34:02):
the Chronic West Collective thatI'm hoping to kind of chat with
her more about like high levelsystems, because I do think with
growth, that's gotta be toppriority.

Yeah, yeah.
Automations and all of that.
Jazz is.
The way to go, especially if youjust need to click a button and
you need to go to sleep.
Yeah.
Like that's how I feel about it.
Like, can I click a button andthen go NN I'm happy.
So let me tell you about one ofthe tools that has quietly
become the heartbeat of mybusiness over the years.

(34:33):
It's HoneyBook.
I use it for everything.
No, seriously everything.
It's how I book my podcastguests, bring on new one-on-one
clients, even manage groupcoaching calls when my other
platforms decide that they wannahave a meltdown from contracts
and payments to contact forms,to task reminders.
HoneyBook keeps all of themoving parts in one place, and

(34:53):
it is all automated.
And here's the real kicker.
It works with my capacity.
Whether I'm having a low energyweek or need to automate a bunch
of stuff in one go, or justcreate a system that makes it
easy for me to run a flexiblebusiness, HoneyBook gives me
that freedom to still move mybusiness forward if you are
looking for a central hub tohelp you work smarter.
Not harder.

(35:14):
I highly recommend you checkingit out.
So if you head on over to theshow notes, you'll get 50% off
your first year.
And yes, that's my affiliatelink, but I only share what I
actually use in love.
HoneyBook is my jam and I hopeyou check it out.
So just a, a thing for you, what does like
being like when pain happens foryou in your business now versus

(35:39):
like when you were working inyour, like the nine to five,
what is different?

Hmm.
I would say the first thing,like I said before, is like a
lot less guilt and a lot lesspushing through.
Like last week I had a day, Imean last week I had a week,
but, but I had one day where Ijust woke up in the morning and
I was like, my body doesn't feelright.
My brain doesn not feel right.
And I just did, I didn't doanything.

(36:05):
Mm-hmm.
I opened up my email to makesure that there wasn't anything
immediate that I needed to getback to anyone on.
I looked through the email, Ithought, okay, nothing's urgent,
and I shut the laptop and I justlaid down for like the first
half of the day.
And the fact that I didn't haveto feel any guilt about that, I
didn't feel like I had tomessage anyone and check in or
you know, whatever felt so good.

(36:26):
Sometimes there are consequencesto that where maybe then, okay,
I have to say I'm gonna worklate another night to make up
for it because let's be real,like we're business owners and
like we have work to get doneand I can't just take off all
the time, but.
But I'm okay with that.
Like that's a, that's a tradeoff I'm happy to make because it
means that when my body's notfeeling good, like I think I
ended up napping.

(36:48):
And then I said, I called one ofmy friends from home and we, I
walked for an hour on the phonewith a friend and that just
filled my cup on that day when Iwas not feeling good.
And I moved my body a little bitand.
And then I was able to like, sitdown at my computer after dinner
and just get some of thosethings done that I was supposed
to do that day.
Yeah.
That's what's different.
Yeah.
And, and it's a trade off.
I'm happy to, to have.

Yeah.
And that's the thing, right?
I don't even like to call thosetrade-offs.
I called them perks.
Yeah, for sure.
Because like, I can't, Icouldn't do that in a nine to
five, like.
Like, I couldn't be like, Heyguys, I'm just gonna nap for
today.
And then like, I'll see you guysat six.
Oh, I'm sorry you guys won't bethere.

(37:29):
I guess I'll still come into theoffice and still work at this
desk.
Like I couldn't do that.
And so to me like that's theprivilege, that's the perks of,
that's the benefits.
Like to me, those are thebenefits of being an
entrepreneur and being like.
Yeah, I got to sleep in todayand I didn't do anything, but
you know what?
I woke up and I had time at nineo'clock and I did it like

(37:50):
mm-hmm.
That's awesome.
Yeah, and I, I definitely thinkit comes from just being able to
not make it mean that we are notenough, it's just that we did it
different.

Yeah, absolutely.
I, I mean.
I think people who don't livewith chronic conditions probably
don't really get it.
Mm-hmm.
But it's just one of thosethings like I, I can't.
I don't want to feel bad aboutfeeling bad, right?
Mm-hmm.
Like it, it's just, this is whatit is.
This is the reality.
And if I tried to sit there atmy computer right now and do

(38:25):
this work, I would probably endup staring at a screen for three
hours and getting nothing done,right?
Mm-hmm.
Yeah, because like my, my mindand my body are not there.
They're not.
Capable in that moment to, to doit.
And so for me, it's like, I, Ican't, I'm, I'm not gonna feel
bad about that because it's justnot productive, right?
Mm-hmm.
Like, it's just not a good useof time in when I could have

(38:48):
just been doing the things toget me to feel better.
Yeah.
Instead, I just forced, tried toforce myself and then it's like
a lose lose situation.

Yeah.
So what are some things that,like if someone is like
listening right now who's like,okay, I.
All right, Liz, and y'alltalking about me transitioning
from full-time job to my ownbusiness.
What are some of the things thatyou did that helped you make
that as, as uns scary but stillscary enough?
Like what was some of the thingsthat you did?

(39:18):
Mm-hmm.

Well, the, the one that everyone says is like, have
savings.
Mm-hmm.
I think that that obviouslyreally, really helps for me.
Also, the fact that I alreadyhad clients when I quit my
full-time job and knew I wasn'tgoing from like a full-time
salary to$0.
Mm-hmm.
Like knowing that even thoughthe, the amount of clients

(39:39):
wasn't what I wanted in terms ofa business.
It was something to start withthat was super helpful.
So I would say like if there'sany way you can start doing it
on the side at a small scale,just it'll give you that con,
that confidence too of like,okay, I have proof of con
concept.
I know I can get clients, or Iknow I can sell this product or
whatever.
So you don't jump feeling like,can I even make this work?

(40:04):
Mm-hmm.
That would be one.
I would also say that reallyfiguring out your offer.
Really, really helps because forme, I used the time while I was
in my full-time job to like doall of the market research, to
do the pro the pricing researchand come up with my pricing,
come up with like those, youknow, my portfolio that I send

(40:27):
to future potential clients andthings.
This way, when I quit myfull-time job, I was able to
just go and start trying to getnew clients instead of spending
a month doing all of thosethings.
To me that was just, you know, Icould sit down one evening after
work and spend three hours onthis, on this portfolio and just
check it off the list.
That was the other thing I did,was made a, a, a checklist of

(40:50):
things that needed to get donein order for me to feel ready to
leave the, the job and thenthings that I wanted to get
done.
Yeah.
So this way, when I reached thatpoint of burnout, I looked at my
list and I said.
Okay.
I'm in like a pretty good spot.
Maybe I didn't get all thethings I wanted to get done, but
I needed, I, I got everything onthe need to-do list done.
Mm-hmm.

(41:10):
And, and that just felt, feltgood knowing that like, I had
kind of had a plan and I didn'tget the full way through the
plan, but I had laid enoughgroundwork to feel ready.

Yeah.

And the other thing that did really help me in
the transition, and this is notan option to everyone, but when
I quit my full-time job, theyactually asked me, I put in my
two weeks notice and theyactually asked me to stay.
So I ended up having six weeks.
I transitioned to part-time at aa certain point.
That was just a huge, huge helpand.
I went into that processthinking that they were not

(41:45):
like, I thought they were gonnabe like, we're done with you.
But really they loved that I wasable to offer them that time
because my last day was the newsocial media manager's first
day.
So I got to sit down with thenew social media manager and
onboard her a little bit andsay, this is where I keep things
and.
Instead of them having this gap.
So if you have a full-time job,you can always just offer that.

(42:06):
Like, I'm willing to stay on andhelp with the transition.
I even interviewed myreplacements.
Mm.
Like I was fully immersed inthat process because I stayed on
and I think they really enjoyedthat.
So if you can ask your job, Hey,I would love to have like a slow
off board.
Mm-hmm.
Then that can be a huge helpfinancially too.

Yeah.
Love that.
Yeah.
You know, we, I love that yousaid that.
'cause sometimes we're, we'relike just operating in the fear
of what's gonna happen when weleave versus in the, like to me
that's more like I.
What's possible if you did leavein the way that felt the
greatest to you?
I mean now if you're trying toleave the job'cause you

(42:46):
absolutely hate the place andthey're crazy, then that's
different.
But if it's like a, a, a, aenvironment that you may have
have been with for a while orthat you do enjoy or you wanna
keep that bridge unburned likeYeah.
Then I love that, that youshared that as well.

Yeah.
For me, part of it too was onceI had told them.
It felt so much better.
Like it released me.
'cause I kind of felt like mybrain was in two different
places.
I felt a little like scared atwork because I was like, I have
this other thing, and I was likescared.
I didn't wanna talk to anyoneabout it.
But once they knew and they werealso excited for me, like I was
fortunate.
Like I said, I had a really goodwork environment that like.

(43:25):
It just felt good then that Icould actually talk to them
about it too.
And it again, like you said,it's not right in every
scenario, right?
But it was a win-win on bothsides that I got more time of
getting paid and they got moretime for the transition.
And so, yeah.
I went into that fully, likeimagining in my head the, the
thing where they're like, justgo empty out your desk.

(43:45):
You're done.
You know?
I don't know why like you, we goto the worst case scenario.
Yeah.
But like, yeah, thinking aboutwhat's the best case scenario
and just like, why not?
Why not ask, why not put it outthere?

Yeah.
I love that.
Yeah.
I love that so much.
How did you prepare?
What were some things youprepared as far as like living
with the chronic pain and thefatigue and the brain fog to
prep for that as well?

That's a good question.
So it actually was really kindof unexpected because I had
actually gotten to a really goodplace with my care routine.
I had found an amazingchiropractor who was more than a
chiropractor.
He did like soft tissue work andall those things, and so I was,
I was in a really, really goodplace actually with this regimen
that I had with him.

(44:27):
Then a month after I quit myjob, my long-term boyfriend got
a new job in a different state.
So we ended up moving out ofstate like a couple months later
and uh, wow.
It actually made it a lot, alittle bit harder.
The stress, right?
Because stress is one of my hugepain triggers.

(44:47):
So the stress of this kind ofquick move that we were kind of
planning for, but we were notplanning for it to happen as
soon as it did, that was a hugetrigger.
And also just losing thischiropractor, I.
That was helping me so much andgot me to like such a great
place was really, really hardfor me.
I was so devastated.
Mm-hmm.
And so that actually was reallyhard because when you move to a

(45:09):
new place, it's hard to findthose people again.
Yeah.
So the way I prepared was bylike getting myself to a good
baseline where I was having lesspain days.
Right.
I was having less flareups thatdidn't stay that way because of
life.
But that's the best thing Iwould recommend is just like.
This is gonna be leaving andstarting a business is gonna be

(45:30):
so stressful.
Like, it was so stressful forme.
And so the best thing I could dofor myself was just get myself
to the best place possible sothat when that stress ramped up,
I already had, my care providerI knew was really helping me,
that I could book an appointmentor like I had this routine and
I, I was already in a goodplace.
So that's what I would do.
It didn't work out.

That's what I attend to.
Well, you prepare.
Well, you can prepare for it.
I mean, you can prepare for alot of things and things, you
know, shift.
I think one of the things I.
I love that you did.
It was just like, okay, I knowI'm going, you anticipated that
this is gonna be a little bitmore stressful of a time, and so
you anticipated like, I need toramp up this, I need to do that.
And I definitely think everyone,that's just something to keep in

(46:14):
mind too is like maybe it's notlike you may not, maybe you are
gonna wanna ramp up some moreself care, some more.
Mindset work as well.
So more physical activity,movement and things like that.
And getting your body to a placethat's almost like when it's in
that state, if you're gonna gothrough something like that,

(46:35):
that it's not pulling fromnothing.
Mm-hmm.
It's a storehouse of things youhave there that it can pull
from.
Yeah.
And that you can, you can kindof relax into at the same time.
So, such good points there.
So tell us a little bit aboutyour business.
You as a social media manager,what does that look like for you

(46:57):
operating in that living withchronic illness?

Yeah, so I, my business is social with purpose.
We do social media management,we do social media content
creation, and we do liketraining and consulting.
And so it's kind of interesting.
One of the things is like mybusiness is very built around
social media management, and Iprioritize working with
nonprofit organizations andpurpose-driven businesses.

(47:21):
And it's like I have this provenmodel where like the majority of
my clients are in this space,but it's also trying to figure
out like.
How to diversify a little bitand how to get clients in
different ways, like in more ofa consulting capacity or in more
of like the content creationcapacity.
Because I think everyone wants asocial media manager to like
just jump in and do it for themand, and, and that's just, it

(47:44):
works really well.
But definitely I'm, in terms ofbusiness, just wanting to like,
think a little bit further interms of like, how do we
diversify in terms of like, youknow, just my experience.
It, I think it's just kind of.
The reason it works really wellfor me is I don't have to be
always on for my clients.
It's based on deliverables.
It's based on once a month Ideliver content for them to

(48:06):
review.
We have these meetings andcheck-ins and things, but the
vast majority I can do wheneverI want.
And that's one thing that reallyhelps me because it doesn't
require me to be always on.
I'm not logging hours forclients, you know, I'm not
online at certain time, I'mjust.
I know each month what I have toget done for these clients and
when I get them done and how Iget them done is kind of up to

(48:27):
me.
So that's one of the reasons Ithink it works really well for
me and with my health becauselike I said, you know, I have
that flexibility.
If, if I'm not feeling good oneday, I don't have to push
through.
I, I.
Try to plan it so that I'mworking on things a little
before when they're due, which,let's be real, we're business
owners.
It doesn't always happen.
'cause we get, you know, whenyou're building a business,

(48:48):
there's a lot of components andit can be a, it can be a hustle
sometimes, honestly, like to,to, I don't want it to be that
way and I'm actively workingagainst that.
But there are some sometimeswhere you just find yourself
with more work than youanticipated on your plate.
Mm-hmm.
Or you didn't plan things rightor whatever.
But for the most part.
It means I can work ahead andget things done and not have to

(49:11):
stress.

Mm.

Because I don't have to be on for them at any
particular time.

Yeah.
Yeah.
Love that.
Love that.
Yeah.
Build a business that worksaround your life.
That's what I say.
Mm-hmm.
I personally think from astandpoint of like the type of
business that works the best iswhere you are in the most
control.
The driver's seat of.
What and when you need to dosomething and you not always

(49:36):
rely on other people for that tohappen, and so because then you
give yourself that flexibilityand freedom, this is why I will
probably die saying coaching andconsulting are the best ways to
do that, but I.
If you are going to have aservice-based business, like be
sure you are designing it sothat it gives you more
flexibility and freedom in thatway, and you're not like being

(49:58):
handicapped or chained to theseclients in a certain way.
Mm-hmm.
Uh, I think sometimes I.
When I see service providerswith chronic illness, I feel
like they overcomplicate thedelivery.
Mm-hmm.
And because when theyovercomplicate the delivery,
they put themselves in thisspace of having to be more on
than they need to be.
Right.
And so that creates that samekind of experience that you had

(50:21):
in a nine to five where you'relike, oh no, I feel guilty, and
like, let's not recreate thething we tried to get away from.
Yeah.
So it sounds like you have beenreally designing your business
in that way as well.

Yeah, I've tried because I think it just works
for me personality wise too, youknow?
Mm-hmm.
Um, and I want to be availableto my clients, right?
If they have questions or like,you know, if they have something
quick that like comes up, youknow, I wanna be available to
them.
But I also have structured it ina way where it's like.
It's around my preferences.

(50:54):
Mm-hmm.
Of when and how and where itgets done.
And that I don't need to be likewaiting for them to like text me
on a Tuesday morning so we canget this post out.
Like that's not really the wayI've built it.
There are once in a while,exceptions that we make, but for
the most part it's like.
Oh, you send us something latethat you want posted.
Okay, it's gonna go out when weget it to go out and we try to

(51:15):
prioritize it and get it done,but it's like, I can't guarantee
this is gonna happen today.
Right.
Yeah.
Boundaries like trying to setthose boundaries for sure.
It's hard.
It can be really hard,especially when you're newer in
business.
And this is something that fromthe business owner mindset
perspective, I struggled with alittle bit was.
I think when you work afull-time job and you get hired,
you have that feeling of beinglike, oh, they trust me.

(51:37):
Like they've, they've placedthis title on me that they
believe in me, and so I can begood at what I do and you know,
I can believe in myself.
And when you start your ownbusiness, you're basically
placing that title on yourselfand saying, Hey guys, I do this
thing and I'm pretty good at it.
And that was kind of hard for meat first.
I was very, mm.
Intimidated.
And I've really struggled withthat concept of like under

(51:58):
promise and overdeliver where Iput so much pressure on myself
to always overdeliver.
So there was a time where I didfeel like I had to like respond
immediately.
I had to like be so on top ofthings.
I had to be going above andbeyond in every single way.
Yeah.
But I am sort of shifting thatmindset and saying like, you
know what?
Like I can't operate that way'cause that is another road to

(52:20):
burnout that I don't wanna be onAnd mm-hmm.
It's part of it is confidence.
Part of it is just lessonslearned about boundaries.
But I definitely made somemistakes in saying yes to too
many things at first, or beingtoo available to the point where
they, you kind of like get takenadvantage of or just, you know,
you didn't set the rightboundaries.
And that's something I've had tolearn.

(52:40):
But fortunately I've, I've nothad any challenges with, like,
pushback from clients either.
Yeah.
I think I've, I've found clientsthat really respect my
boundaries and, and when I setthem, so I am super happy with
that.

Yeah.
And you work in a niche that youwanna work in.
Like you work with people thatyou really like.
Mm-hmm.
And you really are like down fortheir mission and, and their
values.
Like you align in that way.
And I think I.
Again, this is something else Iwill always say is like, if
you're living with chronicillness, we don't have time to
be dealing with people who arenot in alignment with

Yeah.

What we want or how we wanna help the people in
the world.
So like why waste our time withthat?

Mm-hmm.
And that can be a double-edgedsword.
'cause I think, especially whenI work with nonprofits, I would
always feel the need to likereally over deliver.
Yeah.
And really give a lot becausethey're nonprofit organizations.
Mm-hmm.
And I still do, like, I thinkfor every client, you know, I
think I still try to be givingand like do those things to
surprise and delight that asthey say.

(53:40):
But I, I think I've also had torelease that, like feeling that
because they're a nonprofit, Ihave to make sure that I'm doing
so much more for them becausenow I just try to think about it
of like, they're all my clients,whether they're a for-profit
business or they're a nonprofitorganization.
And I shouldn't be treatinganyone any differently, and I've
just had to kind of like releasethat, that like, I don't know

(54:01):
what it is, like thevolunteerism, guilt or something
like that.

Yeah.
Yeah.
I think it's funny.
Yeah.
I mean in and in reality,nonprofit versus profit, I.
It's a tax difference and forthe most part.
Mm-hmm.
Um, and it is still a business.
Like I always joke with some ofmy friends who are nonprofits
and they're like, y'all bignonprofits, is that we don't
make money.
Like we're not trying to makemoney.
It's like, no, we have to makemoney.

For sure.
And I think that this is justsomething that I hear like a
lot, not just in the socialmedia space, like, you know, I
feel bad.
Like, oh, if the client saysthat this is like.
A little bit outside of theirbudget, like, oh, I feel bad.
I wanna make sure they'regetting the most.
But the thing that I've also hadto remember is like that is,
that has nothing to do with me.
Like, I don't need to feel bad.
This is business.

(54:46):
And like, if they can't affordit, then they, they can't afford
it.
But I don't need to like.
Give discounts because they're abrand new business.
Yeah.
Or, you know, do all of thosethings.
Like, this is what I offer andif I'm sorry, I feel like I, I
almost said it.
You know, I'm sorry.
If you can't afford it, we canfind other ways to work
together.
Right.
Or I can refer you to someonethat maybe has like a different

(55:06):
price point, but like, I can'tfeel bad because I've built my
business this way and this iswhat works for me and this is
how I value my work and all ofthose things.

Yeah.
So much.
That's a whole nother, a wholenother episode, right.
Just on.
Not feeling bad about people notaffording our prices.
One of the things that havehelped me in this thought is.
Like, I create content that'sfree.
I, I do things like this, likethe podcast I enter, you know,
I'm in networking groups.
I'm like, I go do speakingengagements and things like

(55:37):
that, that are relativelyusually free to the audience or
very low accessible for peopleto do.
And then like, my services aremy services, right?
So I'm not doing everything atthis high and whatever, and
nobody can.
You know, learn or be helped.
And so that's helped me a lotand around like my prices and my
prices and why I'm not sorrythat that's my prices.

(55:59):
Yeah.
And, and it definitely helps me to think
about it when I think about,well, my Heal Me fund that I
have is like, I.
Literally, I can't help anyoneif I can't heal myself.
So yeah.
I gotta, I gotta make money too.

Yeah, for sure.
I, that's a really good, I lovethat you talk about that, like
offering things for, for freethat are more like accessible
and things, because it is like,I.
You can feel good knowing thatlike you're contributing and,
and you have that like servantheart kind of Yeah.
But you also on the businessside of things are like, this is
what it is and I have to be ableto earn this much and I'll, you

(56:32):
know Yeah.
Value it appropriately.

Yeah.
So tell us how we can connectwith you if anyone who is in
those niches and maybe lookingfor a, not a social media
manager or consultant for socialmedia, how can they find you?

Yeah, so my website is
www.socialwithpurpose.co.
There's no M at the end, it'sjust.co.
I'm on Instagram at Social withPurpose.
You can find me on LinkedIn, LizCarmines.
Those are probably the bestplaces.

That's awesome.
Can I just say something realfunny real quick?
Yeah.
So in my out, out like outro, Isay ww.pro to thrive.com and I,
I got so much flack from myhusband and some of my friends,
they're like, why do you say wwwdot?
Like, why don't you just say thename and then.com or.co or
whatever.
I'm like, I don't know, but Ifeel like that's what I'm

(57:25):
supposed to say.
It's not the full website.
And they're like, nobody saysthat.
And I'm like.
Aha.
Listen, it, I'm well known.

I, I'm thinking about like the, the wide
demographic of potentialaudiences that are listening and
they say never assume anything.
I don't wanna assume anyoneknows, so.
Exactly.
I'm with you, girl.
I don't think it hurt it as Iwas saying, I was like, this is
a little long, but like, youknow, it, I, I just think you
don't wanna.
Assume anyone knows what you'retalking about.
I

love it.
I feel the same way.
So there you go.
Anyway, this was so much fun.
Thank you so much for being onand sharing your story, and I
hope that this really servessomeone who might be in the same
little boat transitioning orthinking about doing this as
well.
Anything you want to leavebefore we hop off?

I guess I would just say like.
I'm really passionate aboutpeople who really think that
this is their path, just goingfor it.
And there's gonna be a lot offear.
There's gonna be a lot ofuncertainty, potentially
imposter syndrome, comparison,whatever it is.
And those are all things thatyou can and will overcome with

(58:32):
practice and.
Just, those are the things thatcan stop us in our tracks
sometimes and make us quit orjust like panic and get a, a new
job or whatever.
But, you know, if this is likein your heart and you really
wanna do it and you believe it,then those are the things you
can work through.
Like, you can always be workingthrough your fear and overcoming
mindset and all of those things,but just don't let that stop you

(58:54):
from, from doing the thing,because you know.
Seize the day.

Yes.
I love that.
Well, thank you so much.
Thank you.
Yeah,

thank you so much for having me.
It was such a great conversationand I love listening to your
podcast, so,

Aw, thanks for being on.
I appreciate you.
Thank you.
That's a wrap for this episodeof Business with Chronic
Illness.
If you would like to start andgrow an online coaching business
with me.
Head to the show notes to clicka link to book a sales call and
learn how to make money withchronic illness.
You can also check out ourwebsite at ww dot crafted to

(59:26):
thrive.com.
For this episode's, show notesand join our email list to get
exclusive content where I coachyou on how to chronically grow a
profitable business while livingwith chronic illness.
Until next time, remember, yes,you are crafted to thrive.

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