10 Podcasting Tips from 40 Years of Podcasting

Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Alban (00:00):
Kevin new podcast marketing strategy.
Just dropped what.
What we have a new podcastmarketing strategy, new strategy
, and I'm going to nominate youfor this one.
So I saw in pod news not onlyis Jacksonville, florida, the
home of Buzzsprout, but now itis the home of a podcaster
running for Congress.
Oh, I want to do that.

(00:21):
Is it you, mark K?
I don't know who Mark K is, buton LinkedIn we have about 17
mutual friends.
Mark K is now challenging JohnRutherford and running for
Congress.
And his claim to fame is that heis a famous podcaster.

Tom (00:41):
according to this press release, Now, where does he host
his podcast?
That's the real question.
If I'm going to support him, Ineed to know.

Alban (00:49):
Same question, Dom, that I had and I know all of us would
have.
But first I've got to read youa statement from Mark Kay about
what he is, why he's running.
He says he's been yelling atthe politicians to change things
for years.
Now he's got to take it intohis own hands.
A fierce advocate for freespeech and small business, Mark

(01:12):
has been pledged to stand up forconservative voices being
silenced online and push backagainst big tech censorship.
Yes, and to answer Tom'squestion, hosted on Megaphone a.
Swedish company measured byPodTrack and Nielsen.

Kevin (01:32):
I feel like we have an obligation to out him.
This is hypocritical.

Alban (01:38):
I agree, we're going to have to come out.
We might have to leak this to,uh, john Rutherford.

Kevin (01:45):
Yeah, hey, when we publish this episode, let's tag
him and if he, if he, reallywants our vote, then he will
move to Buzzsprout.
That's simple.
I like it Pretty simple.
We're, we're.
We're easily persuaded.

Alban (02:02):
Kevin's a one issue voter .
One issue.
Do you have a podcast follow-upissue voter?
Is it hosted with?

Tom (02:10):
us for 12 a month.
You can buy our vote I thinkthat's illegal, we'll fix it in
post all right, we're back.

Kevin (02:24):
After the edit, Tom's audio sounded a little bit wonky
.
It's just because he had hisgain a little high.
So tip for anyone listening ifyou want clean recordings, keep
your gain down and stay close toyour mic.
Thanks for that.
Thanks for the demonstration.

Alban (02:38):
Tom I live to serve.
Welcome back to Buzzcast, theshow from the people at
Buzzsprout about all thingspodcasting.
Today we are joined by TomRossi, the co-founder of
Buzzsprout.
He's filling in for Jordan, ormaybe I'm filling in for Jordan
and Tom's filling in for me.
Tom, welcome to the show.
Thanks for having me.

Kevin (02:56):
So, Megan, who runs the Buzzsprout board, and I'm here
too.
This is Kevin, the trustysidekick.
He's always around.

Alban (03:03):
And also joining us is Kevin.
You know Kevin, he's been onevery other episode, he needs no
introduction.

Kevin (03:10):
We all have our roles for a reason.
Good job, alvin, let's go,let's go.

Alban (03:15):
So Megan, who runs the Buzzsprout blog and newsletter,
and I have been talking about, Ijust celebrated my 10-year
podcast anniversary 10 yearsworking at Buzzsprout and
recording shows and we were like, if I try to distill those 10
years into 10 tips, I feel likethat would be kind of a good
blog post, and so I titled thisepisode 10 Podcasting Tips from

(03:39):
10 Years of Podcasting.
But now that I've got you andTom I think both of you are 15
years plus right as podcasters.
Yeah, when did you record?

Kevin (03:49):
your first show, your first podcast?
Oh, I recorded my first podcastbefore we launched buzzsprout.

Alban (03:55):
Well, tom what was that?

Tom (03:57):
podcast you were on.
What was the first podcast youwere ever on?

Kevin (04:00):
a friend of a friend of mine.
Um, back from my miami days andI started a podcast where we we
were sort of doing like atechnology show, like we just
talk about I don't know stuffthat was going on in technology.
I think we recorded three orfour episodes.
They know this show never wentanywhere.
Um, I don't remember how welike I don't even remember the,

(04:21):
what we used to publish it, butit wasn't buzzsprout, because it
was pre-Buzzsprout.
We did not make it past theseven episode hump.
We faded early.
That was my first foray intopodcasting and then I might've
guessed it on a podcast because,you know, before we launched
Buzzsprout we had a timetracking product called Tick.

(04:41):
Tick is still around and liveand a lot of people still use it
.
It's a great producttickspotcom, if anybody wants to
check it out, and we might'vedone some podcast episodes
talking about that or talkingabout building a SaaS product in
general or technology.
Do you remember any podcastsyou did in the?

Tom (04:59):
early Tick days.
Tom, yeah, I feel like I'm aimitation podcaster because I'm
just a guest.
I don't have my own podcast,but I've been a guest on a bunch
of different podcasts.

Alban (05:09):
You're a co-host.
You've been here 15 episodesplus.

Tom (05:12):
I remember doing a number of podcast episodes, I think
before Buzz Sprout, when we werejust talking about SaaS, when
we were talking about buildingthe business and what it was
like to run a software business.

Alban (05:25):
So I'm going to update this now Between the three of us
.
We're over 40 years, over 40years of recording podcasts and
collectively, both of you, atleast 15, I'll give myself 10.
And we're going to pull ittogether and we're going to do
10 tips, and some of these weresent in from our listeners.
Many I sourced from Reddit andfrom blog posts and just reading

(05:48):
online, and I'd like to getboth of your reactions to these
because I think some of themyou're going to like, some of
you won't.
Okay, All right.
Tip number one focus on thelistener's experience, not the
downloads.
Stats lag behind quality.
So you know you make a greatepisode.
Then the stats come later andreally number watching kind of

(06:10):
just checking those statsrepetitively really saps
motivation, and I found this guyon Reddit who wrote this
comment that I just loved whenyou're doing a podcast, do it
for yourself.
If you watch the numbers,you're going to lose motivation
and let it die, but if you makethe podcast for your own fun,
you'll enjoy the process most ofthe time and produce a good
podcast.

Tom (06:31):
Yeah, I think.
I think this is this is a greatfirst.
A first one because you see somany podcasters that have the
life just sucked out of them asthey are, you know, constantly
hitting refresh and looking attheir numbers when, when they
first started out of them.
As they are constantly hittingrefresh and looking at their
numbers when, when they firststarted, they were so passionate
about whatever it is they weretalking about.
I do think that there's there'speople that get into podcasting

(06:53):
as a business and it might beharder for them to reconcile
that quote right, because theyget into podcasting and I'm
going to build a business aroundthis, but the quote, the quote
might not land with them, butthe lesson is still true that
you should focus on thelistener's experience and not on
the downloads.
Even if you're building apodcast as part of a business
and you want to make money fromit, whether that's driving,

(07:16):
using the podcast to drivetraffic to your website or
whether you know, whatevermonetization strategy you have,
focusing on listener experienceis still better than focusing on
downloads.

Alban (07:26):
Do you remember?
We've listened to this podcasta few times called Lenny's
podcast.
Tom has recommended episodes toit from it for our leadership
meetups and he had a quote.
He had a whole blog post oftips that he's given and his
podcast has done over 10 milliondownloads in the first two
years, so it's done very well.

(07:47):
Called the Lenny podcast andhis first one was, instead of
trying to make something a lotof people like, create a podcast
that a hundred people will love.
I love that idea of picking outjust like it only has to be a
hundred, but they have to reallylove it.
Like don't try to makesomething mass market that
everybody might kind of like.

(08:07):
The two and a half men ofpodcasting that show that
everyone was like it's fine,which is why it was big, but no
one really loved the show.

Kevin (08:16):
You know, I I think I get what Lenny's getting at with
this quote, but for me, in theway that my brain works, is it
sounds like he's moving towardspractical advice, but he's not
quite there yet.
For me, I'm still left with thequestion like, oh okay, that
sounds great, but how do youmake something that a hundred
people love?
Like?
That still feels too abstractfor me, and so let me try to

(08:37):
personalize it.
Maybe it'll help somebody who'slistening.
But for me, every time I recorda podcast episode, like my, my
meter of whether I feel like itwas a good episode or not is was
there something that we talkedabout?
Was there a piece of that showthat I'm so excited about, that
I'm so proud of that?
I have to share that withsomebody, and so oftentimes,

(09:01):
unfortunately for my poor wife,she's the recipient of a lot of
this stuff.
But when we record a buzzcastepisode, there might be a little
segment in there where there'sa part of the show where I'm
like that was really good and Iwill.
You know, we'll be on a walktogether and I should be like
you know what's going on, what'snew, and I might share that
part with her.
I'm like, hey, listen to this,like what did you think of that?

(09:28):
And so, for me, that's how Itry to do.
I think what Lenny is issuggesting here is create
something that a hundred peoplelove.
Well, I, if, if we do somethingon this podcast that I am
excited enough that I have totell at least one person or more
, then I know it was a goodepisode.
That's what I'm looking forEvery time we record is that
there's something that I have toshare.

Alban (09:50):
There's only one person you really know what they really
like, and it's yourself.
If you're paying attention, youknow what you like and it is
funny that we're all like, oh,other people will enjoy this
stuff.
I'm not really into it, butit's gonna work well in the
algorithm.
Like, just make something thatyou're proud of, and if you're
proud of it, it doesn't reallymatter if the listeners come,

(10:12):
but likely if you're proud of itand you like it, there's gonna
be a lot of people who willthink the same way you do.

Tom (10:19):
I think there's a practical application too, in terms of
the content that you're talkingabout in your episodes.
You know, I laugh a lot whenI'm looking at podcast
descriptions, for just lookingthrough our, our podcasters, and
there's, there's always adescription that says something
like two guys talking aboutstuff, and it's, there's.

(10:40):
There's nothing specific aboutwhat they're going to talk about
.
And even you'll.
You'll be at a podcastingconference and you'll ask them,
like, what's your podcast about?
Oh man, it's everything.

Alban (10:49):
It's music, it's pop culture, it's everything.

Tom (10:54):
It's politics, right, and you're like that makes it kind
of hard to get a handle on whatpeople are going to love about
what you do.
Now, some people can pull itoff because it's their
personality right, so they loveyour personality.
So whether you're talking aboutpolitics or pop culture, it
doesn't matter.
It could work for your podcast.
But I think that's really hardto pull off.
It's much easier to pull off.
Hey, I'm going to talk aboutsomething specific that I know

(11:17):
people who love Dungeons andDragons are going to love this
podcast, you know.
Or people that love gaming aregoing to love this podcast.
But if it's just two guystalking about stuff, it's going
to be it's going to be hard toget people to really love that.

Alban (11:31):
That's going to be a podcast I'm going to start.
Welcome back to buzzcast.
Three guys talking aboutpodcasting stuff, all right, uh,
great, first tip.
Uh, we're onto tip two.
Uh, pick a cadence you canalways hit.
So we talked a lot last weekabout the celebrity podcasters
and which one succeeded.

(11:52):
And really the sign of a podcastthat's not going to succeed is
a podcast that starts publishinginfrequently, and I saw this
quote every missed episodeerodes trust with your audience.
Quote every missed episodeerodes trust with your audience.
And I always tell peopleremember, you're still going to

(12:13):
have a job when you launch thispodcast and you want podcasting
to fit into the life you have.
And so you probably, in thebeginning, need to be honest
with yourself what is a showthat you can commit to and then
actually commit to doing itconsistently?
And you know we, we movedBuzzcast from two weeks because
that's what we could commit toin the beginning, and eventually
we said we're going to do aweekly show.
We've talked about so manypodcasts that have been

(12:35):
consistent and said that thatwas kind of their bread and
butter.
That's what helped them grow.
Have you either?
You seen any examples with thisExamples?

Kevin (12:46):
Nothing's.
Nothing's popping into mind,but I do.
I do like how you referencedBuzzcast.
You know, when we started, whenwe started Buzzcast and we came
up with this the idea for whatthe show is going to be, who's
the audience going to be wetalked a lot about.
We all have a lot ofresponsibilities around
Buzzsprout, and so this wasgoing to cut into the amount of
time that we had to give toeverything else, and so what we
could all commit to was makingsure that we pushed out a show

(13:09):
every two weeks and then, as theshow began to grow, it was
valuable always, whether anybodywas listening or not.
It was valuable for us to beconnecting as a team, to be
watching what's going on inpodcasting, to collect our
thoughts about that, to vocalizethose thoughts and to share
them with however many peoplewere listening.

Tom (13:26):
Eating our own dog food.

Kevin (13:28):
Yeah, Eating your own dog food using our own product,
Absolutely Again where does thatphrase come from?

Alban (13:34):
Nobody's eating their own dog food.
Hopefully, Hopefully yeah.

Tom (13:37):
That's a good point.

Kevin (13:39):
But as the show grew in the reach, it also started
providing more value.
So, like I said, there wasalways some value from the
beginning, but as it startedreturning more value, then we
were able to up our level ofinvestment in it.
And keeping those things incheck I think has a lot to do
with, like determining thecadence that feels right and
that you can always hit.

(13:59):
In the beginning.
You're not going to have a lotof value coming back.
The value might just be oh,it's fun and I get to connect
with this co-host that I don'tget to talk to on a regular
basis, or I get to meetinteresting people because I do
an interview show, and so I'malways reaching out and finding
new people.
But whatever, there's going tobe value in the beginning, but
it might not be so much valuethat you can justify a daily

(14:20):
show or even a weekly show.
So, starting slow and then, asit builds and you're like, oh,
this is actually giving morethan I'm putting into it and
maybe if I put in a little more,it will give a lot more.
And so that's what we saw withBuzzcast, and I think a lot of
podcasters can see that.
But the danger is that you makethis massive investment up
front, and it's going to take along time for that value to even

(14:43):
even out with the amount thatyou're you're investing, no less
surpass it, and so the chancesof you stopping before you break
even are high and you say Ithink you're my soulmate.

Alban (15:02):
It's like your commitment is so high from day one that
you're going to fail, Likewhatever you just said.
Like the person across thetable is going, even if they're
excited about that, they're likeyou're good, You're going to
let me down.
But if you go in you're saying,oh, this is a casual, we just
got coffee.
And then it ramps up andeventually you become soulmates.
That's great and it feels likeit's a one way road.

(15:25):
You're going to do morefrequent episodes, more intense
interviews, more research, more,more, more.
And I think it's much healthierto start at the lower level of
investment and move up, becauseyou never want to promise daily
episodes.
People get into it for thedaily episodes and then two
weeks in you're totally burnedout going.

(15:46):
I guess this podcast is dead,when really the podcast probably
would have been great as aweekly show.

Tom (15:51):
There's something to be said about seasonality, to like
seasons of podcasts.
Like one of my favoritepodcasts, this is land of the
giants, that podcast will have aseason and then they'll take a
break and then I'm you know, I'mhitting refresh.
I'm ready for the next seasonto start.
I don't know how much it hurtsthem.
Sure, they get more downloadsif they created more content,

(16:11):
but I think their bar is setpretty high in terms of what
those episodes look like, and sothat will work, even though
it's an inconsistent cadence.
So the lesson, the idea pick acadence that you can always hit.
I like that lesson from theperspective of the health of the
podcaster, the idea that, as apodcaster, as a creator, if you
pick a cadence that you can'talways hit, there's a good

(16:32):
chance you're going to burn out,and so I like this lesson for
that more than I do about hey.
You're going to get moredownloads If you can pick a
cadence that you can always hit.

Kevin (16:40):
Yeah, and you have to remember like it's not just the
amount of time that you'rerecording.
There's most podcasts probablyhave a certain amount of prep
that goes into getting ready torecord in the first place, like
choosing a topic, choosing aguest, choosing all the stuff
that goes in ahead of time,getting your equipment set up,
yada, yada, yada.
Then you get to record andthat's the really fun part and
but that's maybe only an houryou know most podcasts somewhere

(17:03):
around an hour and then youhave all the post stuff like how
much editing are you going todo?
Are you gonna?
How are you gonna title yourepisode right?
What's the description?
And there are tools likeco-host and stuff that make all
that stuff easier.
But it's not just recording andoftentimes that gets missed up
front.
So when you're thinking aboutstarting a podcast and you're
thinking about like what'srealistic for me in terms of how
often I can publish, realizethat whatever you think in your

(17:24):
head, you probably should doubleor triple that investment.
Start conservative.
You can always go more.
I think most audiences whoconnect with you, who love
whatever you're putting outthere again, that is the goal
from the first tip.
No one's going to complain ifyou're doing more, but they
might be disappointed if you aredoing less.

Alban (17:41):
All right, so I'm going to skip ahead to a tip I had a
little bit later, but you kindof segued into this nicely,
kevin.
Uh, create shorter episodes.
I think there's way too manybig interview shows that are
doing three plus hour interviewsand a lot of new podcasters,
myself included, look at thatand go oh, that's the recipe for
success.
You know, I need to be doinglong shows because that's where

(18:05):
you get really good content andthe truth is we don't have many.
We need more great short shows,short episodes, less effort to
put into them.
You're gonna be able to yourecord for a long time, but you
can cut a ton of the fluff.
You can get down to what's thebest quality content.
And the truth is, attention isscarce and people are much more

(18:29):
likely to jump into a 15 minuteshow and just try it on a whim
than they are to a three hourepisode I've had so many times
people have said you shouldreally listen to this episode of
Tim Ferriss, but I look at itand it's two and a half hours
and I go.
I don't have two and a halfhours and so it just sits in the
recommended by a friend queue.

Kevin (18:47):
You know who's really good at this is the rework
podcast.
They're like 20 to 30 minutes.
They're tight, they're they'rethey're shorter episodes and
usually they're just chockedfull of it's.
It's not just like one greattakeaway or two great takeaways,
it's like five or 10 in 20minutes.
I don't know if that's a resultof just the preparation that
goes in ahead of time or if thefact that the it's David and

(19:11):
Jason here on that show who do alot of public speaking, they do
a lot of message testing andhoning and they've kind of got
their messaging all locked inand they're talking about stuff
that I pretty much heard themtalk about before.
And maybe the podcast is justkind of them Like we've already
tested all this messaging, wealready know where our thoughts
are on all this stuff and sowe're just giving you the best
of it.
Or it could be editing, itcould be just done in post that

(19:31):
they actually tighten it up.
However it happens, I usuallyget to the end of those episodes
and I'm like I would listen tothat whole thing in its entirety
again because it was so dense.
When you stumble upon podcastepisodes like that, those are
the ones I'm really excitedabout sharing.
There's been like you said TimFerriss is a great example
Plenty of great Tim Ferrisspodcast episodes that I've
listened to that I was like, oh,there's a good nugget there,
there's a good nugget there.
But I feel bad sharing themwith somebody because I know

(19:54):
like you're going to here's twohours of your life for this 32nd
thing that I loved.
So I'll share those, like witha timestamp.
Maybe that's totally fine, likeat least you're still sharing
it, you're still introducingsomebody to it.
But I feel an extraresponsibility as a listener now
to be like hey, tom, check outthis awesome podcast episode and
I'm going to share it with thetimestamp, because this is the
part that's really gold.

(20:15):
And if you want to listen tothe whole thing, listen to the
whole thing.

Tom (20:28):
But I don't want you coming back.
I was like, oh, but there wasthis one bit, and Tom's like I
didn't even get to that bit.
You know, it was like I don'thave that much time.
Yeah, I think the createshorter episodes lesson is a
good one, uh, and it can betweaked a little bit to say go
through and pull out the thingsthat just don't land a hundred
percent, that don't, that justaren't that valuable.
It's so hard.
I know I've seen this beforewhere you're putting together a
talk for a conference orsomething like that, and there's
certain points that you want tomake but they just don't land,

(20:50):
as well as other points, andit's so hard to kill that point
and just cut it because you'vedone the, you know, you've done
the thought process, you've comeup with the illustration,
whatever, and cutting it outafter the fact is just, you know
it's like killing your darlings, it's, it's, it's not something
that you want to do, but at theend of the day, it makes it so
much tighter.
Um, when you can just gothrough it and say, okay, this,

(21:11):
this is the really strong point,this one, not as strong or
maybe not as supportive, uh, ofof the bigger point that you're
trying to make with your episode, or the thing that you're
trying to to expose in yourepisode, and being able to kill
those things to be able tocreate shorter episodes, I think
is really good takeaway.

Kevin (21:26):
Really good.
Editors are pretty like brutalwhen it comes down to it, and
there's a reason why usually thebest podcasts have, you know,
the people who are recording arenot the people editing because
it's a lot easier for somebodyelse to put themselves in the
position of a listener and justsay, oh, this is actually, you

(21:47):
know, they're beating aroundsomething kind of interesting,
but they never get there andit's not worth the 15 minute
segment to get to a place wherethey're just kind of like that
doesn't resolve powerfully andso I'm going to cut the whole
thing.
But as a creator, you're likethat was 15 minutes Like, and we
, we got close, so I'm justgoing to leave it in Like
somebody.
Somebody will find somethingNah like.
Ultimately, the episode will bebetter if you kill it, but, as

(22:10):
Tom said, it's hard to kill yourown darlings.
I also understand that as, assomebody who's starting in
podcasting, you're going to beyour own editor, like Jordan's
out this week.
I'm editing this episode.
We might end up with six goodminutes.

Tom (22:22):
I have no idea how long this episode is going to be, and
the thing is, you're your owneditor and you like all your
stuff because you said it.

Kevin (22:28):
It's your stuff, you said it.
I'm like I'm so smart I'm notcutting that I'd leave you.

Tom (22:33):
It makes me think of.
I was just on a family vacationand I'm sharing photos with the
family.
We have a shared photo albumthat we share pictures with, and
you take 10 shots of the samething.
Right, we're all at the sameplace.
You don't share all 10, man,nobody wants to look at all 10
of those photos.
You got to pick one.

(22:55):
Oh, but this one is just alittle bit different.
Oh, the kids just got, you know, a different smile on their
face, and so it's so hard tokill those darlings and say I'm
only going to share one of the10 pictures that I shot, but,
man, there's a better chancethat people are going to look at
those pictures.

Alban (23:10):
Right, all right.
Tip number four expect slow,non-linear growth.
Matt from Washington DC reachedout to us and said growing an
audience requires tremendouspatience.
It reminds me of the EddieCantor quote it takes 20 years

(23:30):
to make an overnight success.
Thanks to Matt, by the way, whowas one of two people who wrote
in to sound off and answeredthis question for us.
But the point is, plateaus arenormal Persistence wins.
The marketing hacks are notwhat wins, and the truth is that
podcasts in the beginning dogrow very slowly and if you're
creating great content, thedownloads are going to come
later, whereas for video andsometimes social media, they

(23:53):
come right hand in hand.

Kevin (23:54):
Yeah, I agree, when we look back at some of the most
popular buzzcast episodes,they're always old episodes and
it doesn't mean that those werethe best episodes that we ever
had, but they were good and goodenough to have some staying
power.
So they continue to getdownloads in, like what we call
the long tail.
We published them two years ago, three years ago, and they're

(24:14):
still generating a few downloadsand that ultimately makes them
our most popular episodes.
Now, if you put them side byside with some of our more
recent episodes, I'm sure someof our more recent ones we would
say are objectively better.
For all these reasons, ouraudio quality is better.
We have tighter editing.
We did a little bit moreresearch so we were more honed
in on the topic.
It didn't take us as long tomake the points we were making.

(24:36):
Maybe we got better with ourfiller words.
There's less ums and ahs, allthat kind of stuff.
It's an objectively betterpodcast episode and our audience
has grown.
So maybe the first 30 days onour newer stuff is looking
better than it did for thoseolder episodes, but there's no
denying it.
Like you, look at our top 10episodes, there there's nothing
that we probably published inthe last year.
That's in that top 10.
It takes time, it comes inwaves.

(24:58):
That's another point that Ididn't really clarify on.
But every now and then you willhave something.
Virality and podcasting does notlook like virality on social
media.
Social media virality is short,extreme bursts of massive
numbers of impressions andvirality in podcasting can just
look like blips in your overallpicture.

(25:19):
But you do once in a while get alittle virality where on a
podcast for an indie podcaster,that might look like an episode
that got shared five or 10 morepeople and it's hard to pick
that out.
When you're looking on a chartyou're saying, okay, this one
looks a little bit higher.
Was that a viral moment for you?
Well, if you only get a hundreddownloads typically per episode
getting 105 or 110 or 115, thatcould be a bit of a viral

(25:42):
moment for you.
And of those extra 10 or 15people who listened, maybe five
of them become regular listenersand then slowly over time,
those bars on your chart aregetting a little bit bigger and
then they might be flat for awhile.
But it doesn't necessarily meanyou need you go from a hundred
downloads a month or a hundreddownloads an episode to 5,000.
Oh, I had a viral moment in mypodcast.

(26:03):
No, the viral moments are smalland sometimes they're missed,
but they do happen.

Tom (26:08):
That's one of the great things about podcasting is that
you've got this content that'sout there.
As people find out about it,they might go and start
listening to older episodes.
I see this in support.
A lot People will write intosupport and they'll go hey,
something might be wrong with mystats because I'm getting all
these downloads on my oldepisodes and you're like no man.
That's the beauty of podcasting.
Somebody found your podcast andthey were interested enough

(26:31):
that they went through your backcatalog and they downloaded
some of your old episodes Likethat's, that's great.
That's the kind of growth thathappens when you bring in new
listeners.
They go back and they listen toyour back catalog.

Alban (26:49):
You know one of the tips I kept seeing when I was
researching this was, your firstepisode is still going to get
plays for years, so make sureit's perfect.
And I was like what bad advice,because I know what the truth
of what happens there is theynever, you will never release.
You know, you'll spend twoyears editing that one episode
and never move on.
Uh, the lesson is yeah, thatwill still get plays.
And that's amazing.
And everybody's first episodeis not that great.

(27:10):
This was in that article fromthe Lenny podcast.
But he went through the firstAndrew Huberman episode, the
first Tim Ferriss episode, thefirst like of tons of podcasters
, and he's like notice how badthe audio is here, look how bad
the video is, look howuncomfortable this host is.
You know, example after example.
We're all just not going to begreat at it in the beginning, uh

(27:31):
, but we're going to grow overtime.

Kevin (27:34):
I love thinking about first episodes is like that's
the, that's now.
I'm excited.

(28:00):
So I've done this for two years, I've done this for three years
and maybe I'm not at my goalyet.
Maybe I'm not, I haven't youknow, I don't have the exact
body or the fitness level thatI'm going for, but I'm sticking
with it.
I imagine there's going to beprogress there and that progress
is going to be visible in thatphoto, and so I am sharing that
and it's like is it embarrassing?

Alban (28:18):
It's like this weird paradox of it's an embarrassing
photo but I'm proud of itbecause look where I am today
and I've never enjoyed takingthose photos.
No, no one's.
Yeah, cause I'm like the reasonI'm deciding I'm gonna get into
this routine is cause I'm likeI'm really not happy where I am
right now, but you're taking itfor your future.
Cause you're like oh no, thisis going to be the journey, and

(28:41):
when I've committed and I'vestuck with something for a few
months, it's fun to look backand go.
Man, I'm so proud of myself.
You know, I wouldn't havenoticed that it was that big of
a difference, but now that I'mlooking at two photos and the
same lighting in the same room,I'm going, whoa, that there is a
real difference.
I'm proud of myself, yeah.

Tom (28:57):
I told a friend of mine who's starting a podcast and I
said look, you're only going toget better.
As long as you're committed togetting better, you're only
going to get better.
So your first episode is goingto be your worst episode as long
as you're getting better.
And then he ended up having meon his first episode and then he
introduced it as Tom's here onmy worst episode.

Alban (29:15):
Good, that is awesome.
Another tip that I loved was uh, podcasting is great for
networking.
I found this blog from tarareed through my guests I've been
referred clients, affiliatesand speaking opportunities, and
then a pr agency owner, uh,credited her show for opening
doors to ideal clients,conference stages and specific

(29:37):
people that cold outreach neverreached.
So the funny, funny time youjust talking about you getting
onto somebody's podcasts, andpodcasts really are a wonderful
networking opportunity becauseyou can get people on the
podcast who probably don't wantto get on a phone call with you.

Kevin (29:54):
Podcasting the numbers aren't public and visible like
they are on other social mediaplatforms.
So if you think about, you knowa Tik TOK or an Instagram or
YouTube or whatever, anybody atany time can go and look and see
how many subscribers do youhave, how many followers do you
have, how many likes did you geton you know an average post
that you do?
Podcasting doesn't have that.
Some of it is good, Some of itis bad.
The bad part is that you don'thave ends or people who are

(30:16):
looking to do promotions orpromote a new book, or yada,
yada, yada reaching out to youbecause they know that you have
a lot of influence.
Okay, they don't know.
The good is that when you reachout to them, they don't know.

Alban (30:30):
So, um.

Kevin (30:32):
What they can see, though , is they can see consistency
and they can see staying power.
They can see consistency andthey can see staying power, and
so you have that opportunity asa podcaster to get that,
regardless of how many peopleyou're reaching at any given
time.
So, if you podcast for a yearand you're doing a weekly show,
you might have in the ballparkof 50 episodes, and so, when you

(30:53):
reach out to somebody and say,I would love to have you on my
podcast, I think you'd make agreat guest.
They're going to look andthey're going to check out your
podcast, and you're saying Ihave 50 episodes.
That's pretty impressive, likewhatever.
However many people arelistening, they must there must
be enough of them that they're.
They're providing enough valueback to the podcaster for them
to keep doing this thing.
That's great.
Even if those 50 podcasts aregetting 10 downloads they don't

(31:15):
know.
They don't know if they'regetting, you know, 10,000
downloads or 10 that can play inyour favor, and you have total
control over that.
So I like that and I, but Ithink, really, what you have
there is you have the power touse your podcast as a marketing
tool, if you are, if you stickwith it if you sustain right
when somebody reaches out to anyone of us to be a podcast guest

(31:37):
on their show.
If we go and look besides Tom,who's happy to be your worst
guest on your worst episode ever, most people are a little bit
hesitant.
When you only have one, two,three episodes Like so, those
are great episodes for you totry.
Hey, I'm going to try.
My first episode is a solopodcaster.
I'm going to, you know, find afriend or somebody I have a
connection with, like Tom.

(31:58):
This guy made a connection withTom beforehand and then he came
on a show for his first episode.
Do those for a while, build upyour catalog and then, when you
get 20, 30, 40 episodes in, youcan start moving up the ladder
of my dream guest.
Get closer and closer to thatideal guest that you want to
reach out to.

Tom (32:14):
I would also put this lesson under a bigger lesson.
Right, podcasting is great fornetworking.
Another way to say it isthere's tons of ways to get
value out of podcasting thatdon't involve downloads.
Right, you can measure thesuccess of your podcast a bunch
of different ways, and one ofthe ways is doors being open.

(32:34):
Just being able to have aconversation with a certain
person might make the wholepodcast worthwhile.
I knew a person who was anauthor and she started a podcast
on how difficult it is to getyour first book published.
Well, she ended up getting totalk with all these publishers
that the same people she wassubmitting her book to.
So just the bigger point thatpodcasting is great for

(32:55):
networking, but podcasting isgreat for all different types of
of uh, different strategiesbesides.
Just downloads.

Alban (33:03):
All right, Tip number six this one is a little bit more
tactical.
If you flub a line whenrecording, just restart the
whole sentence.

Kevin (33:12):
I like this one as today's editor.
The editor for this episodeenjoys it.

Alban (33:18):
We do this all the time.
There's so many times that wemess up something as we're
saying it and one of us willcatch it and just say redo the
whole thing, yep, and you goback to the beginning of that
sentence, because then you havea clean edit point, rather than
trying to splice two or threesentences together to try to get
one clean edit.
Yes, to try to get one cleanedit yes, this one came from
Reddit, where they said theexact same thing, verbatim, but

(33:45):
got to give credit to our fansover on Reddit.

Kevin (33:47):
I would also say, oftentimes we're a little bit
too critical of what needs to beedited and what doesn't.
If we give bad information, ifwe actually say the wrong thing
like if we mean kilobits and wesay kilobytes or something like
that and we just go on and thenwe realize it later and we're
like actually, can you just saykilobytes, so I can put that

(34:08):
over that?
That's actually a pretty hardlittle edit, but it's important
to make that edit.
It is easier if you just goahead and do that whole thing
again, but let's get the rightword in there.
The point I'm trying to make isoftentimes, like these are
conversations, and when you haveconversations with friends and
when you're in a group of peopleand like people misspeak all
the time and you can justcorrect it and no edit is needed
at all and it feels morenatural and it feels more

(34:31):
authentic and it feels as alistener oh, I'm actually just
listening in on a realconversation.
There is something to be saidabout.
Well, that was you know, it'snot as efficient, but it doesn't
have to be efficient.
It has to be entertaining, ithas to be engaging, it has to be
educational these are the goalsthat we're trying to do and
authentic, and we want thatstuff as tight as possible, but

(34:53):
you'll lose some of thatauthenticity If it's if it
sounds absolutely perfect andrehearsed every time.
One of the things, one of thetypes of podcasts that I don't
really enjoy, are podcasts wherepeople write the whole outline
and then they read it.
I don't really enjoy that.
I know that the content isprobably better because it's so
tight and so concise and they'vealready done all their editing,

(35:13):
pre-recording, but it doesn'tfeel like something I want to
listen to Books, audiobooks Ilisten to a lot of audiobooks.
I don't get the same connectionwhen I'm listening to an
audiobook than I do with apodcast.
I get the information and Ilike it because it allows me to
receive that information inplaces where I can't read a book

(35:33):
.
When I'm driving down thehighway, I can't be reading a
book, but I really want to readthis book.
So it's it's good in that way,but I don't feel connected to
the author or whoever'snarrating the book.
I don't feel connected to them,and podcasts allow you that
connection, and part of thatconnection is that it's real and
it's not perfect.

Alban (35:51):
So yeah, All right.
Speaking of not perfect, whereare we going here?
Number seven pick the rightco-host.
We see this a lot.
I think Tom and Kevin have verydifferent perspectives on this
one.
A lot of times we see peoplewho, Tom, you probably see a lot
of the podcast breakups I dowhen people are reaching out to

(36:14):
support.
Kevin and I have been podcastingtogether for I don't know seven
years now and one of the thingsI kept going back to when I was
writing this one was you wantto be evenly yoked with your
co-host.
This is a phrase from the Bibleabout getting married, but the
idea is like both people are ascommitted to this thing together

(36:38):
, like the commitment level isthe same, and there's podcasts
where it's pretty clear oneperson loves the show and is all
in and they're doing the workand then they struggle to get
the second person to show up forthe recording.
If you've got a co-host who'snot as committed, it can really
burn you out, and also, you'renot going to be able to even

(36:59):
record an episode if they justdecline the meeting invite.
I just feel like there's somany people that their
experience of podcasts would beimproved if they spent a little
bit more time thinking about isthis person that I'm kind of
committing to doing the showwith every week.
Are they going to be excitedand as fun to show up every week
as I?

Kevin (37:18):
am.
If you have somebody who youthink might be a good co-host
for your show, if you're havingto talk them into it, that might
be a bit of a red flag.
If you're excited about thisidea, you share it with somebody
.
If they quickly startreciprocating the excitement, it
starts building on their sideand maybe a day goes by and you
didn't, you know, text themabout it or whatever and they

(37:39):
text you and they say hey, wasthat just talk last night?
When you're talking about apodcast, or do you really want
to do it?
Like I've been thinking aboutit, like, okay, if that's where
you are and that's where theyare, that's how you're starting
to figure out.
Are we going to be equal inthis endeavor?
If you have to convincesomebody over a long period of
time a couple of weeks to dothis podcast with me and you're
dragging them into the firstrecording and you're like I'll

(38:01):
do all the work, I'll do allthis, you don't have to worry
about anything, I'll have to,yeah, could be a red flag there.

Tom (38:05):
I mean you really do have to approach it like you're
picking a partner to go to thegym.

Kevin (38:10):
Yeah, that's a good analogy.

Tom (38:18):
To get you know, start running that mentality of is
this person going to be my gymbuddy?
That on the days that I don'twant to go to the gym, they're
going to want to go to the gym,and on the days that they're not
going to go, I'm going to pushthem.
You know, are we going to be inthis together, or is it going
to just be one sided, where I'mthe one that's always trying to
get them to go?

Kevin (38:35):
Right, and I imagine that in most cases anyway, there are
the rare occasion where youjust meet somebody brand new,
fresh and decide to start apodcast and it can work out
great.
But most times you probablyhave some sort of relational
backdrop for this.
It can be tough and it can be alittle brutal, but I think you
have to ask yourselves like okay, what do I know about this
person?
When we set up a lunch date,did they show up or do they

(38:57):
cancel half the time?
Do they cancel 20% of the time?
When we say we're going to gocatch this movie together on
Friday, am I pretty much?
You know that's a 50-50 ifthey're actually going to go or
not.
As Tom said, like when you'recommitting to something that you
know up front, it's going totake a while to see results.
Jim is a great example for this.
It's going to take a while ofus investing in this before
we're going to get any returnfrom it.

(39:18):
I need somebody who's not justgoing to um, not going to
actually just show up, but alsopush me.
There's going to be days Idon't want to do it.
There's going to be days whereI'm not feeling it.
Are they going to reciprocatethat.
So I hope that most people haveone or two people in their
lives that they're like yeah,that is a person that I can
depend on, I can give it to.
Those are the types of peoplethat you're looking for Anytime

(39:38):
you're starting something that'sgoing to have some challenges.

Alban (39:41):
Another tip that I really enjoyed was be picky about
guests.
So this doesn't mean go for thehigh profile guests every time,
but there's a lot of shows thatare like, oh, I'm trying to get
an episode out, I don't have agood guest, and then they just
find somebody who will show upand the person shows up.
But it really dilutes theshow's promise.
If your show is we're talkingabout the latest in technology,

(40:05):
we're talking about embroidery,we're talking about dog shows
then get people who areinterested in those topics.
If you bring the dog showexpert onto the tech podcast, no
one's going to be excited, butit's also going to make the tech
podcast get diluted becauseeveryone's going.
Why is this on here at all?

Kevin (40:23):
Yeah, this is a really good point.
I think it can be hard, thoughsometimes honestly, in the
beginning to be super pickyabout your guests because you're
probably just excited to getanybody on your show right, and
you have a little bit.
Most podcasters struggle with alittle bit of the imposter
syndrome upfront, with like I'ma nobody, who am I to reach out

(40:46):
to this person?
And so you might reach out topeople or potential guests that
you might cast a wide net mightbe the most efficient way to say
it, and then maybe some of theresponses that you get back
aren't ideal but you're like eh,it's better than nobody, I'm
going to go with it.
And I don't think I don't thinkyou should like feel bad about
that in the beginning, but asyour show starts to develop its

(41:09):
voice, as it starts to developits audience, I think this can
be a goal that you move towards,right, I think I have the
luxury of having thisperspective because I work in
podcasting and I meet a lot ofbeginning podcasters and I don't
guest on a lot of shows, likejust to be perfectly transparent
.
But when I do, I try toremember to say upfront before

(41:30):
we start recording hey, I'm gladwe got this set up today.
I'm glad I'm on the recording.
Listen, I'm going to give youan hour of my time and I hope
it's the best episode thatyou've ever recorded.
That's, that's my goal for whatwe're doing today.
But at the end of it, if you'relistening back and you're
editing this down and you don'tfeel like it's a good fit for
your audience and you decide notto publish it, I'm fine with

(41:52):
that.
Like, this is my gift to you isthis hour, and then what you do
with it.
From that point, whether youwant to return it to the store
or re-gift it to somebody elseor just throw it in the trash
can.
Like that's not, that's not, Idon't have a problem with any of
that.
I just want to give you thistime and then you do with it
what you want.
I don't think most guestsprobably have that perspective,
but they don't work inpodcasting.

(42:12):
Now I would encourage you.
Like you know what goes intopodcasting, you know what it's
like to get guests on your showand then try to make something.
The interview didn't turn outthe way I wanted and I'm trying
to make something good about it,and I really wish I just didn't
have to publish this, but Ikind of feel obligated to the
guests I was on.
But if you're guesting on otherpodcasts, that's a gift that
you can give them and that'ssomething that we can try to do

(42:32):
as podcasters who are guestingon other podcasts.
It's gifts that we can giveeach other and I like that a lot
.

Alban (42:38):
I really like the point that you're going into these
saying it's a gift and I'vewashed my hands of it by the end
of the episode, Like I've movedon and if you decide not to
publish, that's okay, you don'towe it to me.
I've recorded episodes that inpre-interview talks this is
going to be so good.
And then when I watched backthe video or I listened back to

(43:01):
the audio and went, yeah, thisjust doesn't land anymore and
whether it be my fault or theguest fault or a combination,
I'm not excited about evenpassing it off to an editor or
editing it myself, because itdidn't feel great and so we just
didn't move forward with it.
I think it would be healthy totry to keep back some of those

(43:21):
episodes that we just, if youknow I don't really love this,
Well then, maybe don't pass it.
You know bad guests who they?
You know they put in the badguest category or a bad
interview category.

Kevin (43:43):
And they want to know, like is there an obligation for
me to publish this?
I think the responses that Ifeel like I've heard from the
Buzzsprout team in general hasbeen like, have a conversation
with them about it.
Like, have a conversation withthem about it.
If you don't feel good aboutthe episode and the final edit
you were able to come out with,chances are they might not
either.
You could have, you could shootthem an email, you could shoot

(44:06):
them a text.
You could say hey, can we hopon a phone call and talk about
this?
But do you guys have any otheradvice?
When it comes down to, Ithought this was going to be a
great guest.
I followed your advice.
I was trying to be picky aboutmy guest.
I landed this guest, we set itup, we recorded it.
It turns out at the end of theday, I don't feel like this is
going to be a good episode toput out to my audience.

Tom (44:23):
What do you think I like the advice of?
You shouldn't feel obligated toput it out.
I don't think you should feelthat obligation.
I also like going back to theother things that we said of
focusing on good content andshorter episodes.
There's a chance that an hourlong interview turns into a 15
minute episode, Even though younormally do a 30 minute or a 45
minute episode.
Maybe you only do a 15 minuteepisode cause there was only 15

(44:43):
minutes of good content that youwere able to mine out of it
Like.
I think that's acceptable.
There's podcasts that Ilistened to that vary widely in
the how long they are, based onwho they're interviewing and how
good the interview is.
So sometimes it could be athree hour interview and you're
going to listen to all of it,but sometimes it might only be a
30 minute interview.

Kevin (45:02):
Yeah, there have been a few podcast episodes.
One stands out in my mind Ithink, alvin, you'll know what
I'm talking about, cause wetalked about this, but there's
an episode of decoder.
Yes, I already know theyinterviewed, interviewed um the
substack founder, substack ceo,and they published it and it was

(45:23):
so cringy and hard to listen toand I I felt like they probably
justified it as, uh, you know,we recorded this episode and we
have an obligation to share thatconversation with our audience.
They are a bit of ajournalistic news thing, more
than entertainment, and so theyare fit.
But gosh, as a listener I feltso uncomfortable listening to it

(45:44):
Like I almost would rather havenot have listened to it.
It got so awkward.

Alban (45:48):
I would prefer to not listen to it because it hurt to
listen to, but I think NilayPatel would counter and say the
whole point was they didn't haveany answers for pretty
important questions to have, andthat that's what the five
minutes of stammering showed was.
Oh wow, you really haven'tthought through this yet.

(46:08):
Yeah, that's, that's.
That's not good.

Kevin (46:10):
But if the point of that podcast was entertaining, I was
not entertained, I wasuncomfortable.
If the point of it is this isthis is a journalistic show and
we're going to ask hardquestions and sometimes people
get uncomfortable, then it fitsand I feel like the decoder
podcast sort of bounces betweenthose two.
Like it is an entertaining showand it's a lot of tech news and
most of it is pretty light.
That episode was not and I wasuncomfortable and I just wanted

(46:34):
it to end.

Tom (46:36):
I feel like we have to share this episode wanted it to
end.

Alban (46:42):
I feel like we have to share this episode Tip number
nine uh, write the episode titlebefore you record.
So I'm not a hundred percentsure if I agree with this, but I
kept seeing things like thisand I've gotten this feedback
for YouTube videos before and Ithought it was helpful for
YouTube.
I want to know what you thinkfor podcasting, and the idea is,
before you even hit record,there needs to be a theory of

(47:03):
the case.
There needs to be like here'sthe message we're trying to get
out to the world.
We have a little bit of anoutline, we have a title, I have
a guest, I have a point ofperspective that I'm trying to
hit and you have that in handfrom the beginning.
You're not post hoc.
Oh, we did this recording.
Let's come up with a title andfire that out into my podcast

(47:25):
listeners.

Tom (47:30):
I don't know about having an episode title, but certainly
having a direction for thecontent you're about to create,
like I've.
I've guessed it on podcastsbefore, where they start with
like no, they know nothing, sotell me like what, tell me about
your business?
And you're like wait, where arewe going to go with it?
There's so many differentthings to talk about.
Are we talking about how welead our teams?
Are we talking about podcasting?
Are we talking about, you know,the early days of launching a

(47:52):
SaaS product?
Like, where are we have somedirection of what we're going to
talk about?
And you know, you'll have thosepodcasters that are like, hey, I
intentionally don't do anyresearch before the episode.
Oh, we can.
I think that's.
I just think that's a badstrategy, because how can you be
intentional about mining thegood content If you haven't

(48:12):
thought through what are?
What are my listeners going tobe interested in this interview
that I'm about to do or thiscontent that I'm about to create
?
If you haven't answered thatquestion, the chances that
you're going to land thatcontent with your listeners is
pretty slim.

Kevin (48:25):
I think it's good advice.
What's the thing you say allthe time, tom?
Like have strong opinions andhold them loosely.
So could we apply that here?
Like, have a title in mind,have a direction in mind, but
hold it loosely is maybe how I'dspin this a little bit, which
is I know who's coming on theshow.
I know a little bit of theirbackground.

(48:45):
I know why what they haveexperienced would be a good fit
for my audience and why myaudience is going to find this
entertaining, and I'm going tostart going in that direction.
Now, if we stumble uponsomething golden and it goes off
in another direction, I thinkthat's what I'm saying Hold it
loosely, because you don't wantto stifle something unexpected
that is magical, but don't justgo in blind, like Tom was saying

(49:09):
, hoping magic is going toappear.
Like, have a golden path.
And if you go off the goldenpath because the pot of gold is
bigger on this side of therainbow than the side you were
aiming for, totally fine.

Alban (49:19):
The amount of metaphors coming out of this episode is
just out of control.

Kevin (49:23):
I'm just a metaphor machine.

Tom (49:27):
I think there's a difference between, right,
there's underprepared and thenthere's overprepared.
I've also seen it before wherethe podcaster has the questions
already done, to the point wherethere's an opportunity for us
to go deeper and they don'tlisten to the answer.
And they don't listen to theanswer because you're just
moving on to the next questionand you're like well, wait a
minute, there was more meat onthat bone.
Another one there was more meaton that bone, but we're not

(49:50):
even going to talk about thatbecause you've got another
question and it feels likeneedle off the record transition
.
I love the idea of havingquestions ahead of time, but you
shouldn't hold onto those sostrongly that you can't go down
this other path.

Kevin (50:05):
So I really do like the point of having a direction
upfront, doing some research,knowing an idea of the story
that you think is going to beinteresting, that you're going
to try to tell.
But I think the best episodesare the surprises.
I didn't expect the interviewto go that direction.
I didn't expect to have thislight bulb moment where I had

(50:26):
this insight and I shared thisstory or this reflection.
That's really the excitingstuff, that's the organic stuff.
That only happens when we'renot reading from a script but
we're having a conversation with, with real people in real time
and you get reminded ofsomething or um, I don't know
you just say you know a greatmetaphor, that you don't
normally speak in metaphor, butwhen you get on a podcast, for

(50:48):
some reason, they just you knowflow like the river.

Tom (50:55):
Exactly, exactly, nailed it .

Alban (50:58):
Uh at number 10, my favorite tip came from.
Andy in indiana wrote in.
I said I wish I knew before Istarted.
Podcasting is just how fun andaddicting it is, and I thought
back to how many times in thefirst couple years of buzzcast,
kevin and I would message eachother and say we got to change

(51:20):
this, and we'd be going back andforth.
And one of us I think both ofus, multiple times said it's
going to be hard for me to beinterested in doing this every
other week if we keep X, y, z,and so we made a change and it
wasn't like a threat, it wasjust a.
It's hard to get excited whenthis is not fun for me, and this
part of the show is not fun forme, this aspect of podcasting

(51:42):
is not fun, and so we found waysto do something we found was to
be fun, and I feel like thelast five years have been much
more fun than the first twoyears because we were focusing
on what's fun so that it can besustainable.

Kevin (51:56):
Yeah, I've, I've shared this many times on this podcast
that I am a more introvertedtype person.
I am generally like if we metin person and we went and hung
out at the end of the night,most people would be like oh
yeah, kevin, he's the quiet one.
Yeah, I'm typically more quiet,and so the idea of sitting with

(52:17):
a microphone in front of myface every week now it's a
weekly show now and talkingthat's never something that I
can't wait to do.

Alban (52:27):
That's never something I can't wait to do, nailed it.

Kevin (52:30):
It's never something I can't wait to do.
I'm never super excited oh,today's a buzzcast day.
I can't wait to pop out of bedLike this is going to be great.
But every single time we getdone with recording an episode,
I am glad I did it.
And we have found ways to takea personality like mine that's
not a natural fit for this andmake it fun and make it engaging

(52:51):
and make it something, so thatat the end of it I'm really glad
I did it and at least for a fewmoments afterward I'm like I'm
looking forward to the next one.
That was fun, I'm glad I did it.
The gym is a great analogy forthis, because I feel the same
way about the gym.
Anything that like requireshard work and I'm committed to
it.
I'm ramping up, but at the endof that I know the payoff is
there I can keep doing it.

(53:12):
But if I don't have the payoffand so that does happen from
time to time we fall into lullswith this podcast where I
realized, hey, at the end ofthat recording I'm not super
happy we did it.
I'm not super proud of thatepisode.
That felt a little bit more likea drag than I need it to for me
to be able to continue doingthis, and so Alvin and I and
Jordan will have these, you know, little ping conversations Like

(53:33):
is there something off?
Is there something we canchange?
Is there some way to make thisbetter?
Because here's how I'm feelingand we've been able to do that
and that, I think, has.
How long have we been doingBuzzcast now?
Five, six years, something likethat A long time.
It is seven, so it's sustainedus for a long time.
And Albin and Tom they know mewell they will vouch for this,

(53:53):
like the idea of me doing thisconsistently every week or two
for seven years, like theyprobably would have bet against
that.

Alban (54:02):
I would have bet against any of us doing it for seven
years.
For a long time Kevin was theone saying we got to do a
podcast and I was like, ah fine,I'll show up.
He's like, and I kind of wantyou to do a lot and it took a
while to get me on board.
And then I feel like it's reallybeen totally different periods
where you're like I'm kind oflosing how much I love this show
and we found ways for you tolove it.

(54:24):
And then there are periods whereit was the exact opposite for
me, where I was the one sayingI'm not enjoying, I didn't enjoy
the last few episodes and wekind of shifted what our roles
and responsibilities were.
So I think now we've ended upwith a really good dynamic where
Jordan preps the show becauseshe wants the security of the

(54:44):
outline, she wants to knowhere's what we're going through
and she'll feel very comfortableleading the conversation.
And then I look at it and Iwant to have gone deep on a
couple things, because that'swhat I get a lot of fun out of
is the research and findingsomething interesting in the
story.
And Kevin really loves comingin and like having takes and
reacting in the moment to keepyour energy up and we wouldn't

(55:08):
have picked that in thebeginning, but we fell into
those roles over years of kindof refining and finding what's
fun for each of us, and itturned out to be pretty
different things.

Kevin (55:17):
Yeah, I love that.
It's a very natural and normalpart of our conversation.
Now, when we talk aboutanything related to buzzcast,
any changes we're thinking aboutmaking one of the top criteria
is is this going to make it morefun or less fun for us to do
the show?

Tom (55:31):
I think this is true for for work, this is true in work,
for work in general.
Right it's, it's it's difficultto do a podcast.
It's difficult to work.
There's elements of your jobthat are green, that give you
life, and there's elements ofyour job that suck the life out
of you and are red, and what youwant to do is find the balance
right, because everybody's gotsome red things that they need

(55:52):
to do.
You want to have enough green,and this, I think, has really
penetrated the approach that wehave with Buzzsprout recently,
right when we started, when werebranded ourselves and started
talking about key podcasting,what we wanted to do was to
focus on those elements that aregreen, that are life-giving to
podcasters, and allow them tospend more time in those green

(56:13):
zones and not in those red zones.
I mean, that's where co-host AIcomes from, that's where magic
mastering comes from, this ideaof the things that they don't
love doing.
We want to try to automatethose as much as we can so they
can.
The majority of the time thatthey're spent working on their
podcast is in these green zones,and so I think it's a really
good conversation that peopleshould be having.

(56:33):
It's like what elements of whatyou're doing are life-giving.
If there's no elements, you'renot going to make it.
You're not going to make itwith podcasting.
If there's no elements in yourjob that are green, you're not
going to make it in that job.
You've got to find the thingsthat are life-giving and it
should be a part of your normalconversation.

Alban (56:51):
All right.
So every year Apple has WWDCwhere they kind of set the
agenda for what they're going todo on the software side for all
their products.
So this is on their computersand their phones, their iPads,
and I think we're all kind of inthe tech world so we all watch
it or at least read the newsabout it.
And I went through and pulledout a handful of things that

(57:14):
Apple announced that kind ofrelate to podcasters.
So the first grouping is thingsthat they kind of did for
listeners.
So these are all improvements.
They're coming to the podcastapp on iPhone, the Apple podcast
app, and the first is this isright up your alley, kevin.
3x playback is now coming forthe speed listening freaks like

(57:36):
Kevin.
It was 2X, now it's 3X freakspeed listening freaks like
Kevin.
It was two X, now it's three X.
It used to stop at two X.

Kevin (57:43):
It stopped at two X.
You know, actually two would befine with me.
I don't really ever go abovetwo Um, and my default for
podcasts is one seven.
And now I have found a fewpodcasts that I need to slow
that down a little bit on.
I have not found any podcastswhere I really need to speed
that up.

(58:03):
I will say there was one lastweek where I was like borderline
going to take it up to two, butit wasn't really because they
were talking too slow, it wasbecause the content was just
boring.
I was just trying to getthrough it faster.
But yeah, who out there islistening above two X?
That that does seem.

Alban (58:21):
I mean, I find uh, you know, above 1.1 to be strange to
me.
It's like if either I want tolisten to it at one X, because
it's really high quality andthey did a great job editing and
it's really worth my time, or Ijust want to hit stop and I
want to go move on to somethingelse.

Tom (58:41):
So I don't have on this issue.

Alban (58:43):
Tom.

Tom (58:44):
I don't know.

Kevin (58:46):
I don't mean you don't know, you have.
You know what your podcastdefault is set to.

Tom (58:51):
But it depends on the podcast.
Like I have some podcasts thatI listen to at really fast
speeds and then there's somethat I don't.

Kevin (58:57):
What's kind of your default, though?
Like when you start with a newpodcast, is it starting at 1X?

Tom (59:01):
I think I start at 1.2, but I it depends on the on the
podcast, like if it's forenjoyment I typically are going
to, I'm going to listen at aslower speed If I'm just
consuming content.

Kevin (59:16):
It'll be at a higher speed, but it depends.
I think you're missing out onlife, man.
If you're enjoying it, then youshould listen faster.
You can enjoy more faster.

Tom (59:24):
That's like watching movies on Netflix at 2X.

Kevin (59:28):
Don't open that door, all right.

Alban (59:30):
What's next?
Number two enhanced dialogue.
So Apple's had all thesefeatures for, like AirPods that
have tried to improve audio.
So if someone's talking to youand you have AirPods and they
can isolate their audio, theirvoice, and play it back in your
headphones.
And now they've I imagine it'ssimilar technology.

(59:52):
They're using real-time machinelearning, audio processing, and
they're going to turn onenhanced dialogue where they
take kind of a suboptimalpodcast recording that's in
Apple Podcasts and they'llenhance the voices in that
episode.

Tom (01:00:13):
Yeah, okay.

Kevin (01:00:14):
Everybody has a different flavor of this right Overcast,
Pocket Casts, now Apple Podcasts.
Most players have some versionof this feature and they all
implement a little bitdifferently.
So I think it's just verysubjective At the end of the day
.
You might find that you likethe voice boost over, the voice
enhance versus the clean voiceLike.
But, yeah, the fact that Appleis probably sort of well now I'm

(01:00:36):
now I'm speculating a littlebit.
I'm wondering if they're addingthis at, like, the OS level or
the pocket or the Apple podcastlevel, Like, is this going to be
an API that other appdevelopers could just use in
their apps if they want, or ifit's just going on Apple
Podcasts?
I don't know, it's notimportant, but I do think it is
a table stakes feature for anypodcast listening app, Like if,
for whatever reason, you'relistening to a podcast and it's
hard for you to hear the voicesand that can change from

(01:00:58):
environment to environment,whether you're listening in
headphones or in your car orsomething being able to click
some sort of enhanced voice orvoice boost feels important.

Alban (01:01:06):
I really love a voice boost and overcast so it's
always sound.
It's improved quite a fewpodcasts for me and I like that.
Apple's doing it and of anybodyyou know podcast app developers
.
They're probably not going tohave as much expertise with
refining audio as Apple does.
So I think Apple, especiallywith all the work they've done

(01:01:28):
with machine learning on thechips, I think they're going to
be able to do something reallygood.
So I'm interested to hear howmuch improves bad podcast
recordings, because bad recordedepisodes it's just hard to
listen to sometimes.
This one is for listeners ofJordan's podcast.
Maybe Tom as well.
Airpods will now auto pauseepisodes if it thinks you've

(01:01:52):
fallen asleep.

Tom (01:01:54):
How in the world is it going to know?

Kevin (01:01:56):
This is something only Apple could do, I imagine,
because they must be tappinginto some feature of the AirPod
that's like monitoring yourheart rate, or something.
Who the heck knows what thisthing is doing.

Tom (01:02:07):
Great Apple's capturing your biometrics.

Kevin (01:02:10):
Yeah, but it just, it just begs the question like how
dangerous are these things tohave in your head, and should
you be falling asleep with them?

Alban (01:02:18):
Well, if you're listening to a help me fall asleep
podcast and you're don't want toplay it out loud, and you put
in an air pod.
It out loud and you put in anair pod.
This new auto pause feature isnow coming to new air pods.
And, last but not least, applepodcast has always been the
purple app on your phone.
We've.
That's how you recommend it topeople.

(01:02:38):
Often You're like, oh, you know, that app on your phone is
purple, like, oh, yeah, thatpodcast, I've never known what
that's for.
And you tell them aboutpodcasting.
Well, now Apple is launching allthese new themes which will
look like see-through glass, andso the purple app may not
always be a purple app goingforward.
So that's a big update foreverybody listens to this
podcast.

(01:02:58):
Yeah, very exciting, veryexciting.
All right, but more excitingare these podcasts creator
focused features we mentionedthe AirPods are getting some
updates.
One of them is what Apple iscalling studio quality audio
recordings, and they're buildingon the benefits of voice
isolation.
Airpod users will now enjoyeven cleaner calls with enhanced

(01:03:22):
voice quality, and that's goingto be useful for anyone who
records using AirPods when theyrecord their podcast.

Kevin (01:03:29):
This is really like legitimately exciting, because,
especially for anybody who doesa guest show, oftentimes you
will run into issues where yourguest does not have a quality
microphone, and so we've talkedabout all sorts of crazy things,
all the way from like sendingthem a microphone so they have a
good microphone to record thenthey can send it back, or

(01:03:52):
recommending really inexpensivemicrophones that are at least
better than the laptopmicrophone that you could just,
you know, spend $20 and sendthem this one from Amazon so
they have something.
But one thing that so manypeople have are AirPods.
Right Now, I know not everybody, but a lot more people have
AirPods than a high qualitymicrophone, and so the fact that

(01:04:14):
that device is now going to bepretty close to a high quality
microphone with this, theseupdates that they're doing at
the OS level, is super fantastic.
So now, if you're havingsomebody on your show, you can
say, hey, do you happen to havea podcasting microphone?
No, I don't.
Do you happen to have AirPods?
You probably have at least a 50, 50 chance that they do have
AirPods, and so that would begreat.
Okay, let's just use thoseAirPods.

(01:04:35):
I know that that'll be waybetter than using the built-in
microphone on your computer.

Alban (01:04:41):
My daughter was just on a trip with my sister and her, my
uh, my daughter's cousins, mynieces, and she called me a few
times using voice isolation andshe said sorry, I can't hear you
.
Everyone's talking in the car,it's so loud, and my experience
was I could hear her voiceperfectly and nothing else, and

(01:05:02):
it did just a phenomenal jobediting out all the other people
talking in the background andthe road noise because they're
in the car.
And if that's the level ofvoice isolation that we might
get with studio quality audiorecordings from airpods and I
think it's only the new airpodsthat is definitely interesting,

(01:05:23):
um, I think it would be a lotreally nice, especially for
guest shows.
Like kevin said, new airpodsare much more likely for
somebody to have that highquality mic.
A couple others from iPad One.
You can now pick different micinputs for each app or website,
so your Zoom recordings couldjust use the iPad mic, but maybe

(01:05:44):
if you record in some editingsoftware, then you could use the
mic you plug in and then onethat sounds promising.
I don't know how promising,though, is something called
local capture.
So we've been talking the lastfew weeks about what
alternatives are there torecording using a browser like

(01:06:05):
we do.
Apple launched this, so maybe,kevin, you had a little sneak
peek into what was happening atWWDC.
Uh, you can record audio andvideo from any video app using
local capture on iPad.

Kevin (01:06:19):
Yes, I.
I think this is super exciting.
Now it's super early days.
It's only in beta right now andit's only an iPad Now.
My hope is that the plan willbe for once they work the bugs
out and get it all working andsee the popularity of it, that
it goes beyond iPad.

(01:06:40):
To me, this makes a ton of senseat the desktop level, so for
Mac OS as well as iPad OS andthen maybe at some point even
iPhone OS.
But what it lets you do isrecord locally when you're on a
video conference call, and thesoftware that you're using to do
that video conference calldoesn't seem to matter.

(01:07:02):
So whether you're on a Zoomcall or a FaceTime call or a
Riverside call or a, or aSquadcast or Adobe Podcast or
whatever, it doesn't matter youcan swipe down into your control
center, tap on local recordingand it's going to record a
perfectly high quality localversion of your audio and video
and then it's going to savethose files to your iCloud drive

(01:07:22):
when they're done.
They didn't get into specificsLike, can you put in everyone's
name who was in that call oremail address?
So then that's like a sharediCloud driver.
Doesn't seem like they have allthat stuff worked out yet.
I hope they make it easy forsomebody at the end of the call
to go pick up all the files.
But the fact that we do nothave to rely on, like

(01:07:45):
browser-based software, thatthis can happen at OS level,
seems very exciting for peoplewho are who have Mac equipment.
I don't think this is going tobe a solution for um everybody
right away because, again, ifyou do a guest show, um, it does
look like local, like toggling,local capture on and off is
going to be pretty easy but itdoes require that you're on a

(01:08:07):
iPad on both sides.
But it's something that we'reon a iPad on both sides, but
it's something that we're goingto experiment with on this show
and we'll report back and seehow it goes.
I'm I think this is kind of thefuture, but I do think it's
kind of like a year or two awaymaybe.
Um, but if we can get itworking for this show, I just
think it's going to.
The reliability level of it isgoing to be higher and so I'm
optimistic that there could besomething here I think is a big

(01:08:28):
announcement.

Alban (01:08:33):
Well, it's something I think we should commit to trying
it, and let's do it as soon asit's out and, for better or for
worse, we'll be the guinea pigs.
We'll give you one episode andwe'll see how it goes.
Following up on something wetalked about last episode,
podroll, there is now a list ofthe most recommended shows on

(01:08:55):
PodRolls.
You guys want to guess what'sat the top of those podcasts.

Kevin (01:09:01):
I know, man, I sent this link to you.

Alban (01:09:04):
I already had it in the outline.
Number four, huberman Lab.
You know very popular showNumber three, podcasting 2.0 by
the founder of podcasting.
Number two, mission MattersBusiness Podcast with Adam
Torres.
And number one, buzzcast.
This show is the mostrecommended on pod roles across

(01:09:27):
the podcasting world.
So thank you so much to the 40of you who recommend Buzzcast.
We appreciate it.

Kevin (01:09:34):
Yeah, of the 40, I'm pretty sure like two or three or
they didn't look legit andanother three or four are just
us linking to our own show.
But there are a good 30 numberof like legitimate shows that
are linking to us.
But we would like to see thatnumber go up.

Tom (01:09:51):
I would also like to make it the default whenever.

Kevin (01:09:57):
I would also like to go on record and say this is just
the first of many lists wherebuzzcasts will be ranked higher
than Huberman lab.

Alban (01:10:06):
I looked through it and there's so many uh podcasts we
could actually see the list ofall 40 and many of them are
people who've written in before.
Brian's run pod.
Uh, tom Raftery shows.
Claire recommends buzzcast.
Uh, girl dad nation.
Heart to heart with AnnaJaworski.
Uh, there's so many on herethat if you've listened to this

(01:10:28):
podcast, you've probably to thispodcast.
You've probably heard thembefore.
So thank you to everybody whorecommended us.

Kevin (01:10:32):
Yeah that's super exciting and we need more and
more shows recommending othershows.
Podroll is a really excitingfeature and there's a very
popular like we said on a coupleepisodes ago Pocket Casts.
Now, supporting that and usingit as the main way from one show
to link to other shows Likeit's like the primary thing

(01:10:54):
above the algorithm is huge.
So if you're a podcaster,especially if you're on
Buzzsprout, it's super easy.
Please go in, update your podrole, recommend a few podcasts
and help this get even moretraction.

Alban (01:11:09):
All right, it's time for sound off, where you text the
show and we read it on the show.
Sometimes I think we need tomake a bit of a change.
Kevin, you tell me this isgoing to be live.
I, we get a lot of sound off,and what I want to start doing
is incorporating sound off moreinto the episode.
So that's why, two weeks ago, Iasked you know what are your
podcast tips?

(01:11:29):
And I want to start making whatpeople write more of the main
section of the show rather thanhaving a big bit at the end, and
so I am now releasing myselffrom the promise of reading all
of these.
What is your take on that?

Kevin (01:11:46):
Here's the.
The thing I'm happy to try itlike.
We do this show for the thepleasure of the listening
audience, and so I think that weshould experiment.
That's one of the great thingsthat I think that we do with
buzzcast is we run experimentsfrom time to time.
So I think it's fine for us tosay, hey, we're going to
experiment, we're going to pickand choose from all the feedback

(01:12:07):
that we get through fan mailevery week and we're going to
read the top comments in termsof, like, our subjective opinion
on what's the top comment.
Sometimes that might just besomething flattering that you
say about us, and sometimes itmight be because you bring up an
interesting topic for us totalk about.
But there's no guarantee justbecause you hit you know, text
the show and send us somethingthat you're going to get a shout
out.

Alban (01:12:26):
I think so many of these are really kind comments.
They're thoughtful, but theymay not lead to an interesting
conversation and they may not beof general interest for
everybody who listens to theshow, right?
And so, in the same way thatwe're saying, maybe there's an
interview that isn't worthpromoting to all you know 2000
year listeners and sending out.

(01:12:46):
Maybe there's times wheresomeone writes in and is like,
oh, great point, I've been, thatwas really, that was awesome.
I don't need to read that onthe episode, I can just read
that myself.
And that's what the personmeant when they sent it into, uh
, our fan mail, right?

Tom (01:13:02):
Yeah, let's give it a shot.
Matt from California writes inand says I noticed that your
shows end with a simple quickmusic cue.
Why don't you have a bunch ofcalls to action or wrap up stuff
or even post-roll ads seemnormal for many shows.
Is there a strategy here?
I'm always a little surprised,but also I usually skip that
stuff on the other shows.
Anyway, if I can get back to mycontrols in time, Uh, Matt, you

(01:13:24):
answered the question rightthere, I feel the same way in
the question.

Alban (01:13:29):
I feel the same way.
There's so many shows that theyjust go on and on and on at the
end, and there's so many callsto action and follow the
newsletter and subscribe to theFacebook account, paid whatever.
There's just too many things,and so I think years ago Kevin
said let's just use like a hangup sound and it's over, and I
love it.

Kevin (01:13:48):
Yep, we do our best to create the type of show that we
want to listen to, and so ifit's not something that we enjoy
in other podcasts, we won't doit here.
So I agree with you A lot ofpodcasts do that stuff at the
end I don't like it, I don'tlisten to it, so we're not going
to do it on our show and that'swhy that's the strategy.
All right, our next fan mailcame from another Kevin not me
Kevin, but another Kevin fromTampa, florida.

(01:14:10):
I wish we'd known how to talkabout value for value when we
asked for support.
It took us a while to work thatout.
Love the question, by the way.

Alban (01:14:18):
So I just got to point out before we go any further the
person who wrote this is notKevin.
There is a name, kevin, whichindicates for you to be the one
to read this question.

Kevin (01:14:30):
So it's not from another Kevin.

Alban (01:14:32):
No, no, it's just from Tampa Florida.
I have no other info, but Ijust put.

Kevin (01:14:39):
Hey, kevin, you read this one the same way that I wrote
Tom.
You read the one from Matt fromCalifornia.
I guess I thought it was weirdthat he had my same name and he
also had my same emoji rightnext to it.

Alban (01:14:47):
Anonymous from Tampa, florida wants wish they knew
about value for value when theyasked for support.

Kevin (01:14:54):
Value for value is a great way to talk about.
It's a great way to explain toyour audience why they should
consider supporting a podcastershow, and so that is hey, I'm
hoping that you're receivingsome value by listening to this
show.
It's well.
I don't know if this is a goodanalogy or not.
I don't know why I'm stuck onanalogies today but it's a

(01:15:16):
little bit like if you've everseen a street performer, hey,
you just stood around andwatched me juggle these sharp
knives for five minutes.
Hopefully you found thatentertaining, or else, why would
you still be standing here?
How about returning a littlesomething now?
And they pass the hat around.
That's maybe a terrible analogy,but it's a little bit like.
What value for value is is thatpeople are listening to your
show.
So at some point in your showmaybe halfway through, maybe

(01:15:36):
towards the end or whatever nowyou're talking to people who
stuck around and listened to thewhole thing and they got to
this point.
It's okay for you to explain,Explain to them that they just
received something, and ifthey'd like to return some value
to you as the podcaster, so youcan keep doing it, here's the
way to do that, and so that'sthe value for value pitch.

Tom (01:15:54):
This is on a short list for me of things that I talk about
with every podcaster at aconference.
When I talk to a podcaster andI'm giving them advice, this is
one of the things that I reallypush is recognizing that you're
creating something valuable andyou don't have to feel like
you're begging when you ask forthem to consider supporting a
show.
This is an opportunity for youto say look, I'm putting my

(01:16:16):
efforts into this, I bought amicrophone, I'm doing all this
work.
I think it's valuable and ifyou think it's valuable,
consider supporting the show.
I just think this is a really,really important thing for
podcasters to understand.

Alban (01:16:28):
And Anonymous from Tampa.
I have to apologize.
I now realize this is a really,really important thing for
podcasters to understand.
And anonymous from Tampa.
I have to apologize.
I now realize this was youanswering the question what do
you wish you knew before youstarted podcasting?
I didn't put it into thatsegment, so that's on me.
Next up is Lamar's, iowa.
Yes to StreamYard is a remoterecording option.
We love it.

Kevin (01:16:46):
Yes, I've heard many, many people who are huge fans of
StreamYard.
Uh, we did experiment with ityears and years ago and I'm sure
it's matured greatly since then.
So, uh, if if you're lookingfor a remote recording option,
maybe StreamYard works for you.
It seems to be working good inIowa, so thanks for the feedback
.

Tom (01:17:03):
Steph in Denmark.
Jordan, you mentioned using anAI transcript tool for Buzzcast
that didn't need any editing.
Can you share what it is,please?

Alban (01:17:12):
Jordan is not here, but we can share what it is, and
it's Buzzsprout.
That's what she was talkingabout.

Tom (01:17:18):
This is something that we've been working on for a
while.
We're super excited to be ableto provide it to our podcasters
the ability to be able to createthe transcripts.

Kevin (01:17:26):
Jody from Dork Tales wrote in and said thank you for
highlighting our summerlistening challenge.
All eight of us podcasts are sograteful for the mention and
discussion.
And yes, I was inspired by yourmarketing ideas, which helped
me brainstorm out of the boxideas for this collaboration.

Alban (01:17:39):
This is like one of the best pieces of fan mail we've
ever gotten.
We found this cool thing thesummer listening challenge that
a bunch of podcasters were doingand Jordan said I wonder if we
inspired this.
And I went there's got to be nochance that we inspired it.
And yeah, the episode that wedid got them thinking of out of
the box ideas and they did thiscollaboration and it's helping

(01:17:59):
tons of kids listen to newpodcast this summer.
So thank you so much forlistening.
Thanks for writing in.
And then, last but not least,from Grand Rapids, michigan,
they reached out and asked howcan I have viewers of my podcast
also get subscribed to myweekly free email?
I don't know, because how aretheir viewers of a podcast?

(01:18:20):
Podcasts are audio on this show, but probably that was a typo
Listeners to your podcast.
How do you get them tosubscribe to the weekly free
email?
I think the best way to do thatis to have a call to action and
do that in the episode.
Tie it in to what the realvalue is for that email.
Why are they subscribing tothis email in addition to the

(01:18:42):
podcast?
So let them know at anappropriate time in the episode.
Hey, I also have an email.
Here's the specific values thatyou'll get from being a
subscriber and why it's betteror additive to subscribing to
the podcast.
So that would be myrecommendation.

Kevin (01:19:02):
Yeah, and make it easy for them.
So put a link to sign up foryour newsletter in your episode
description so that when you'retalking about it you can say you
can just go over to the episodedescription right now and tap
the link and sign up for yournewsletter in your episode
description so that when you'retalking about it you can say you
can just go over to the episodedescription right now and tap
the link and sign up for thisnewsletter.

Alban (01:19:12):
Make it simple, well thank you to everybody who wrote
in.
For next week or two weeks fromnow, I want to do an episode
about podcast guests.
We talked a lot about settingup interviews.
We talked about what makes agood guest, the expectations
that should be around being aguest, about what makes a good
guest, the expectations thatshould be around being a guest.
So what tips do you have aroundpodcast guests?

(01:19:33):
And this can be how you findthem, how you vet them, your
workflows, any piece of thatprocess, how you just show up as
a good guest.
So we're going to try tocollect a few of those ideas
together and make an episode.
So, to be included, reach outto us via fan mail, click the
link in the show notes to sendus your thoughts and opinions.
Thanks for listening and, asalways, keep podcasting.

Kevin (01:20:01):
All right, post show.
Yeah, what do you got?
I'm out.
Come on, you did all that andyou didn't.
You're not going to.
You're not going to push itover the finish line.
Come on, you did all that andyou didn't.
You're not going to.
You're not going to push itover the finish line.
You drove to the 99 yard lineand you're not going to just do
the one drive play.
Come on, quarterback, sneak upthe middle.

Alban (01:20:16):
I love when they have the running back who runs all the
way to the one yard line, andthen they always let him try one
more time and they never coulddo it.

Kevin (01:20:23):
Whew, all right.
Right, so this is um.
Not everybody knows this, buteverybody who is host.
It was on this podcast thisweek.
We're all fathers, right?
Yes, we just had father's day,an entire day dedicated to
celebrating the creation, likethe fact that we, uh, are
proliferating the human race,putting more people weird way to

(01:20:45):
say that good what that's.

Alban (01:20:46):
That's not what it's about.
Proliferating the human race.
That's the celebration.

Tom (01:20:51):
That's what it's about.
Isn't that what it's about?

Alban (01:20:53):
Yeah, what about the joy of being a father, the gift of
fatherhood?
We're celebrating the gift offatherhood, so how was it?

Kevin (01:21:00):
Let's talk it through.
Let's start with Tom.
I'll host this segment.
Alvin, I got it.
Tell them how was your Father'sDay.
Did you feel loved andcelebrated and appreciated and
cared for?

Tom (01:21:14):
I did not.
Oh what, what this segment'sgoing so bad.
No, I'm hoping that when mykids get older, maybe it'll come
back around, but I had toremind them that it was Father's
Day, maybe it'll come backaround, but I had to remind them
that it was father's day.
Um, and I got, I got one textthat said happy father's day

(01:21:37):
from my, my daughter who'straveling.

Kevin (01:21:38):
Well, I'm sure all your kids listen to this show, so
yeah after they hear this, theywill feel shame and they will,
you know, shower you with gifts,I'm sure my youngest.

Tom (01:21:48):
My youngest felt bad because somebody else sent me a
text message.
Not one of my children, one ofmy friends sent me a text
message that said Happy Father'sDay and had a nice little note.
And I said, man, that's thenicest text message I got on
Father's Day and it wasn't fromany of my kids.
And my youngest daughter feltbad and she went and she drew a

(01:22:08):
picture of a, of a Mandalorianriding an electric skateboard
with the death star blowing up aplanet in the background, and
it's like happy father's day.
It's like, oh, that's sweet,that's sweet.

Alban (01:22:19):
Sorry, that's on brand, for sure that's a.
That's a Tom Rossi father's daycard.

Kevin (01:22:22):
Really nice text that you got from a friend that wasn't
for me, was it no?
From a friend that wasn't forme, was it no?
I texted you.
You sent me a text that saidhappy father's day, and I
responded with a very nicemessage that said you too.
Yeah, that was very warm.
All right, next year I'll knowto put more thought into it.

Tom (01:22:42):
Well, my kids put more thought into it.

Kevin (01:22:44):
Yeah, I'll remind them for you next year.
All right, alvin.
But yeah, I'll remind him foryou next year.

Alban (01:22:47):
All right, alvin what do you got?
My daughter was out of town forthe longest she'd ever been out
of town and came back on Sunday, so she wasn't here in the
morning.
And it is so much fun for youknow, when you the people you're
closest to, to spend a littlebit of time away and then get
back together is such a gift,because when you're separated

(01:23:09):
you go.
Man, I really miss like thisfriend, or I really miss.
I mean I was just on vacationand I missed work and I missed
everyone I work with.
And then with my daughter, Iwas like I just missed her so
much.
And she came home and I waslike this is the best thing ever
.
You know, for three days beforeI was like man three days, two
days, one day until she comesback.
Days before I was like manthree days, two days, one day

(01:23:32):
until she comes back.
And it really is.
I mean, uh, absence makes theheart grow fonder, but it does
make you really appreciate.
You know how much fun you have,uh, with certain people.
So I had a great father's day.
We didn't do a whole lot, wejust went to dinner, uh, cause
she got back a little bit later,but we really enjoyed it.
That's great.

Kevin (01:23:47):
I do think about you, Kevin.

Alban (01:23:54):
Uh, I feel like the whole segment is coming down to this,
I think that this is.

Kevin (01:23:55):
it was a setup for whatever's coming here.
No, I had a very nice.
I had a very nice father's day.
Um, we hung out, we had, we hadbrunch together, we did a
little family workout together,and this was all in preparation
for the main event, which was afamily golf tournament together.
There we go.
My wife doesn't play, but shewent with us and I teamed up

(01:24:18):
with my middle child and myoldest and youngest teamed up
and we played a family golfscramble and it was a lot of fun
.
We thought we were going to getrained out, but the clouds
cleared and we were able tosqueeze in nine holes and it was
.
It was a lot of fun.
What happened?

Alban (01:24:33):
I feel like you can't tell us.
We had the first, we had a golftournament and and my team won.

Kevin (01:24:39):
Yeah, we got my team won.
We kind of I told him ahead oftime, like I don't care if you
have to throw it or whatever,but it's father's day, I need to
win this thing.
I don't think they threw it, Ithink they played as hard as
they could.
I also like good competition,but in the end, uh, I was on the
winning team and so it was alot of fun the thing you don't

(01:24:59):
know is that kevin's two kidshad like quadruple bogey on the
final hole.
He just squeaked instead it wasall it was all legit and that
was fun.
And then we got home in timeand I got to watch the end of
the U S open and I got to see,uh, more golf on TV.
That was fun.
Um, yeah, so that was it, buthopefully anybody listening

(01:25:27):
still listening to us justjabber on If you're a father, we
wish you have a father andwe're able to celebrate them in
some way.

Tom (01:25:35):
And consider proliferating the human race.
Consider it, you don't have to.

Kevin (01:25:40):
This is the weirdest, too awkward.
All right, keep podcasting.

All Episodes

Episode Transcript

Popular Podcasts

Bookmarked by Reese's Book Club

On Purpose with Jay Shetty

Dateline NBC

.css-15opob5{left:0;position:absolute;top:0.8rem;} All Episodes

.css-14f5ked{margin:0;word-break:break-word;display:-webkit-box;-webkit-box-orient:vertical;box-orient:vertical;-webkit-line-clamp:2;overflow:hidden;}10 Podcasting Tips from 40 Years of Podcasting

Episode Transcript

Popular Podcasts

.css-r6mb8g{margin:0;word-break:break-word;display:-webkit-box;-webkit-box-orient:vertical;box-orient:vertical;-webkit-line-clamp:1;overflow:hidden;}Bookmarked by Reese's Book Club

On Purpose with Jay Shetty

Dateline NBC

All Episodes

10 Podcasting Tips from 40 Years of Podcasting

Bookmarked by Reese's Book Club