June 27, 2025 • 28 mins
Apple celebrates 20 years of podcasting with a list of 20 influential shows that shaped the medium across four eras, highlighting podcasts that pushed boundaries and set standards for creativity and storytelling.
Check out 20 Podcasts We Love by Apple Podcasts, and find out why they made the list!
• 2005-2010 pioneering era includes 99% Invisible, This American Life, and Love + Radio
• 2011-2015 podcasting boom features Serial, Song Exploder, Mystery Show and Acquired
• 2016-2020 includes mainstream hits like The Daily and Call Her Daddy
• 2021-2025 showcases expert-led content like Huberman Lab and narrative journalism like Sweet Bobby
Text us your tips for finding guests and making sure they're a good fit for your podcast, and we'll share them on the next episode!
Contact Buzzcast
- Send us a text message
- Tweet us at @buzzcastpodcast, @albanbrooke, @kfinn, and @JordanPods
Thanks for listening and Keep Podcasting!
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Kevin (00:00):
Well, Jordan, I'm glad you're back.
I'm glad you had fun on yourtrip.
Jordan (00:03):
Yeah, I had so much fun.
Kevin (00:05):
But you can never do that again.
Jordan (00:08):
Yeah, you had a late night on Thursday.
Kevin (00:10):
I did.
I thought for sure I hadThursday carved out to edit
Buzzcast and I thought certainlyI can get this done in a day.
And then, you know, I kind ofdillied a little bit in the
morning.
I opened up the recording, Idid a few rough edits, I got
through the first five minutesor whatever, and I'm like, oh,
it's going fine, hop into someother stuff.
And I came back to it afterlunch and then it was probably
(00:30):
like two o'clock, I don't knowroughly sometime around, when I
pinged Alban and I was like nineminutes in and we had two hours
of recording material and I waslike nine minutes in.
I was like Alban, this istaking forever.
I'm in trouble.
Jordan (00:44):
Yeah.
Kevin (00:45):
And I think we had something to do that evening.
So I had to stop at like sixo'clock or seven o'clock and go
do whatever we did that night,and then I had to come back and
it was like a midnight deal.
Jordan (00:53):
Oh my gosh.
Kevin (00:54):
I'm glad we don't publish at midnight anymore.
I wouldn't miss the deadline,but I knew I had till 8am, so
caffeine and hours were on myside.
Jordan (01:02):
Yeah, that's the thing.
Whenever people say like, okay,like when estimating how much
time it takes to edit something,it's usually like three times
the amount of whatever yourecorded, and I think that
that's true.
If you're not like a verydetail oriented person, like if
you're just like hacking, thatsucker it's.
Yeah, you could probably get itin like a two hour episode in
six hours, but if you take anypride in your work, it's going
(01:27):
to be like two days.
Yeah, I don't know what it is,it's so weird.
Kevin (01:32):
And I was like surely I used to be faster at this, but I
haven't done it in such a longtime.
I had to relearn, like when Iwas starting I was.
I started the first 20 minutesor so.
I was just like watching youtubekeyboard shortcuts and stuff,
because I'm like got a full edto do.
I need to remember how to dothis thing.
Oh yeah, what software did youuse?
(01:52):
Hindenburg, which I still love,but I forgot.
I knew how to like cut, but Ididn't know how to like cut and
collapse, like get the rest ofthe recordings to come down.
And I'm pretty sure I was stilldoing it the wrong way, because
I figured out a way to make itwork and and I'm like I'm just
going to do this- yeah.
It was a little bit clunky, likeI had to drag the position
thing through all the differenttracks and then I did a cut.
I think there's a way that youcan just like hit it on one
track and cut, and then theother tracks still follow suit.
(02:14):
Anyway, I was terrible.
I'm glad you're back and I dolike editing.
I do, I find it enjoyable.
Jordan (02:20):
Yeah, it can be.
Alban (02:21):
Do you know how financial services companies will force
everyone to take a week vacation, so that's how they can
discover fraud.
Is you're out of your job?
Someone else has to do your jobfor at least a week, so they
can tell there's somethinghappening.
The sabbaticals are our way ofappreciating the work everyone
else does, because I never feltanything.
(02:42):
We would have an outline andwe'd go through, we go.
All right, we didn't get thatstory, toss it.
And sometimes I'd see onJordan's face a little bit of
like oh, even if it was a storyyou didn't like, I still saw it.
And then I had mine, I had thestory I didn't care about.
But we go, we don't have timefor that.
And I went oh, I felt like man,I prepped this story that I
(03:04):
didn't even want to talk about,it's still, you felt.
I felt a little bit like oh,man, we dropped that.
And then we cut a story in theedit which was the weakest one
and I went oh man, I was likeit's good to feel that
experience a little bit for you.
Jordan (03:25):
And I think it was nice for Kevin to feel the other side
, the edit side, of what youwork on.
Well, thanks you guys.
I really appreciate you takingover so I can go get on some
roller coasters and have a greatweek.
Alban (03:32):
Well, we're glad to have you back.
Two weeks ago, we kind ofpreviewed this.
We talked about how Apple addedpodcast iTunes 20 years ago,
and then Apple just put out thisreally cool press release where
they went through and they said, ok, 20 years, we're picking 20
(03:54):
podcasts that are 20 of ourfavorite shows that help
exemplify what's best aboutpodcasting, and it's a it's a
cool list.
Jordan (04:02):
Yeah, I love what they said at the beginning of this
list because this was puttogether by the Apple Podcast
Editorial team, so obviouslythey have seen through the years
, all the podcasts that are, youknow, top of the charts making
big moves.
And they said this list is alove letter to the podcast that
left a lasting impact on us andthe ones we continue to
recommend again and again.
(04:23):
They are shows with hosts thatfeel like friends and shows that
make us press play immediatelyon the latest episode to hear
what happens next.
These shows have measurablyimproved our lives and helped
define this medium we know andlove.
I thought that was great.
So, all the podcasts that theychose it's 20 podcasts for 20
years that you know changed themedium in some format.
(04:43):
They were chosen for pushingboundaries, shaping genres or
setting standard for creativityand storytelling, and they
divide the list into fourfive-year eras, between 2005 and
2025, as a snapshot ofpodcasting's evolution.
I just thought everything thatthey did with this list is so
cool.
It was very thought out, it wasvery intentional.
It was really fun to go backand see what podcasts that I
(05:06):
knew that made the list and theones that I was like I've never
heard of that.
Alban (05:11):
Yeah, there are quite a few I didn't know about.
Jordan (05:12):
Yeah.
Alban (05:13):
I think starting these lists with this is our love
letter to these shows, is theway that these lists should be
written, because the first thingI see is I go, oh, but what
about this show, what about thatshow?
My list would be different.
Jordan (05:26):
Yeah.
Alban (05:26):
And the whole point of having a perspective is, of
course.
Of course, the list will bedifferent.
This is the shows we love, butlots of good shows Are we going
to go through and talk aboutthese.
Jordan (05:36):
I would love to, and I think at the end it'd be kind of
cool to see what ones you thinkshould have made the list,
because I also have a couplethat was like man, I was really
surprised that wasn't on thelist.
But yeah, let's kick it offwith 2005 to 2010.
So these are like thepioneering years, these are the
first years.
This is like the public radiostyle.
So, first off, they have loveand radio with off-kilter
episodes that get under yourskin in the best way.
(05:57):
This american life no surprisethere, right, uh, the show that
invented a format and thenperfected it.
And then they also have 99%invisible.
Kevin (06:07):
All right, my pick out of this section is 99% invisible.
That is a show that I follow.
This is an interesting podcastfor me and I'm wondering if you
guys view this the same way thateither one of you listen to the
show.
Yes.
Alban (06:19):
I listened to every episode for many years and then
have dropped off in the last fewthat's where I was.
Kevin (06:26):
I used to listen to every single one and now I really
kind of only listen on roadtrips, when I get through sort
of like topical stuff likewhat's going on today.
That's sort of what carries meweek to week in my podcast
listening and 99% invisible.
It just feels like there'salways something good there.
I know that I can always, if Iget through all the podcasting
(06:46):
news stuff and the currentevents stuff and the who was
everybody talking about, who wason Joe Rogan or Human Lab or
whatever, and I get through allthat stuff and then something
else to listen to.
Like 99% Invisible is a showthat I can continue to go back
to and just scroll through someepisode titles and be like that
sounds interesting and it neverdisappoints.
Jordan (07:02):
That's exactly where it sits.
For me, that's my relationshipwith that podcast is I've been
through everything.
I have nothing less to oh wait,99% invisible.
I'm going to just findsomething, and it's always a
good time.
Kevin (07:12):
It's always like why do I not listen to this more every
time, I feel like if you listento this consistently and I
probably should do it moreyou're probably going to be the
most interesting person at theparty always, because it's just
chock full of like all theselittle details and things that
you know, you don't know.
You never walk away fromlistening to an episode 99%
invisible, without someinteresting facts that you can't
(07:32):
wait to share.
You can't wait to drop it atthe next social event you're at.
Yeah.
Alban (07:36):
I feel that way about this American life.
This American life was thefirst podcast I ever listened to
at least I can remember and thecombination of like there's
real journalism, but thenthere's also like memoir, and
then there's like culturalcommentary and then there'll be
like a poem, and I just lovedlike that.
They have a theme and it'ssometimes a very loose theme and
(08:00):
they're kind of crafting a fewstories together and then, like
David Sedaris comes on at theend and reads a short story, and
I loved it.
I mean, I remember downloadinglike the this American Life app
so that I could get all the backcatalog and listen to it, and
it was another one that I waswondering if there was too much.
That was good.
I know that seems like such astrange thing to say, but same
(08:22):
with 99% Invisible.
You like you get into the samerhythm and there's just like you
look, at some point there'slike nine episodes in the back
that I've already downloaded andI'm like I'm going to take a
little bit of a break and I'venoticed I haven't come back, but
these were like the 99%Invisible and this American Life
are two of my very favoriteshows, the very beginning of me
listening to podcasts.
Jordan (08:42):
Yeah, that's what I loved about reply.
All was that it was all justbanger after banger, but it
would have come out once everylike month or three months, and
so it was just like this treatthat you got every now and then,
and so it was like really easyto keep up with it, because you
didn't have to listen everysingle week.
Alban (08:59):
Yeah, what a strange experience, though, that we talk
about the value of having aweekly show and then there are
some it's really nice to be likeyeah, there's eight episodes a
year, but every one of them islike awesome and you get so
excited for it.
Maybe it's just that thequality has to be so so much
higher when you have a show likethat.
Jordan (09:20):
Yeah, all right, let's move into the next era, 2011 to
2015.
So this is like the podcastingboom and the shows in this list
are like experimental, they'rebingeable.
So this is when people startedlike discovering that little
purple app on their phone andlistening to things like Serial.
So the first one is the Truth,and this is modern short stories
(09:41):
that venture into the uncannyvalley.
The Read the original hang withfriends, culture, conversation,
and it's interesting becausethe read they said that we're so
accustomed now to shows withhot takes and a personal tone
that's easy to forget how theread did it first and continues
to do it so incredibly well.
So that's why that one made iton the list.
Then we have, of course, songexploder fall in love with your
(10:03):
favorite songs all over Serial,a show that changed everything
for podcasting Mystery Show, lowStakes Mysteries with
Emotionally High StakesInvestigations and, of course,
acquired world's biggestcompanies enthusiastically
unpacked.
I was not surprised to see SongExploder Serial and Acquired on
this.
Kevin (10:23):
Yeah, looking at this list reminds me like 2011 to
2015,.
It was sort of like podcastingis becoming a thing Now.
Obviously, the shows that wejust talked about that came
before this, but this is, I mean, serial sort of introduced
podcasting to so many people andit's this little four year
period where all these amazingshows and new formats and all
(10:44):
this type of stuff launched.
I can't even believe the depthof content Just take like Sonic
Splitter, for example, liketheir back catalog is so massive
and the production quality isso high and the amount of energy
that must just go intoarranging recording sessions
with all these high profile,very famous, very busy people.
(11:04):
Oftentimes they bring a lot ofmaterials into these podcast
episodes.
So you get like earlyrecordings or you get like
studio sessions and stuff.
Oh my gosh, this is just agreat era of podcasting in
general.
Jordan (11:16):
Oh yeah.
Alban (11:17):
Song Exploder, one of my favorite podcasts of all time.
Jordan (11:20):
Really.
Alban (11:20):
So many times I would listen to a podcast and I'm
going through the episode andI'm like this song, like I know
this song and I don't like it.
And then, as I hear the storyand the songwriting and then
what's happening with, like thedrumbeat and how it changes, and
then they're like, oh, and thenwe change keys and then like,
(11:41):
as I learned about the song andthere was so much more happening
, and then they always play thesong at the end.
I'd never have left one ofthose episodes and not been like
this is a song that I like nowand maybe it's just that there's
so much more meaning in thesong after I've heard it.
And I've probably shared thatpodcast more than any other,
because if I listened to a song,somebody likes that music and I
(12:04):
learned more about the song.
I'm like, oh, have you seenthis?
Like this is your favorite bandand this is one of their
well-known songs.
But I never knew this backstoryand so I shared it all the time
.
One of the things I love, ifyou ever go back to the very
beginning.
Richie K Sherway is in thepodcast.
He is asking questions and theyanswer, but then he said he was
(12:26):
inspired by I think it wasinside the actor's studio where
they edited out all thequestions and it's like episode
two the format changes where allof the questions have been
edited out and so it's almostlike the artist is just telling
the story and they explain themelody and then you hear the
melody and they explain somelyrics.
(12:47):
Know the melody?
And then you hear the melodyand they explain some lyrics and
then just you hear that part ofthe lyrics.
It's just such a well done showI need to go back and start
listening a lot more.
Mystery Show is another showthat stands out here, one of the
only podcasts, I think, thatwent like so deep into quality
that it ended up kind of killingthe show.
That went like so deep intoquality that it ended up kind of
(13:09):
killing the show.
Pretty much everyone who Ithink has listened to it likes
the episodes.
But then shortly after Gimletbrought it in or after Gimlet
was sold to Spotify, it wascanceled and they were just like
you know the amount of effortthat was going in like some of
these episodes had hundreds ofhours of research and interviews
to produce a single episode,while amazing for all of us who
(13:31):
get to listen and we're like oh,there's a ton of effort that
went in here.
It sounded like that was kindof.
The downfall in the end was howmuch was going into each of
these episodes?
Jordan (13:40):
Yeah, that was one I hadn't heard of, which I was
really surprised, because I lovepretty much all of Gimlet's
shows, and so that's on my listnow of things I need to binge.
Kevin (13:49):
Yeah, did you guys notice that the Apple podcast
editorial team did somethingreally nice?
Here is they didn't justrecognize these shows, they also
said you can find some of theirfavorite episodes.
So it's kind of like a starthere list if you've never heard
the show.
Jordan (14:02):
Yeah.
Kevin (14:03):
And so I'm super excited for the next road trip I have,
because some of these shows,like you said, I haven't heard
of them.
I don't know how these showsare so big and I've been in
podcasting for so long I'vemissed some of these shows.
But you also have great jumpingoff points.
Jordan (14:17):
Yeah, that was something I was really excited about too,
cause we talk about this allthe time with pod role.
When someone you know curatessomething and they recommend
this is a specific episode thatyou'll really enjoy, that this
is a specific show that youreally enjoy, you go all right,
I'm going to trust you on that.
I'm going to listen to that one.
Kevin (14:31):
Yeah, and if it's a serial show, then fine, start at
the beginning.
But for episodic shows, wheredo you go?
Just the latest or what youkind of want to start with?
I don't know.
It's like if you're introducingsomeone to a band, you don't
just say, just go listen to thisband randomly, you say start
with this song and then go tothis song and then from there
you'll be hooked and you can godiscover more stuff from there.
Alban (14:50):
And there's different content that works for people
who've listened to a podcast orlistened to an artist for a long
period and that you like.
You're like, you know thethemes, you know the jokes.
It's very accessible to you now.
But for somebody who's brandnew, there's a different type of
thing you'll recommend.
So I like that they've donethat here, acquired as well Lots
of good episodes in there.
That's another one that I'venot even gotten close to
(15:12):
listening to every episode, butI remember listening to quite a
few early on, like I rememberthe Google maps.
One was like a four hour Googlemaps history and I remember
just being like how did they dothis much research and learn
everything about, like the teamof three people that did Google
Maps like years before they wereacquired?
Just a really cool show thatalso is kind of broken out into
(15:35):
the mainstream so much that theydid that one episode where they
had, like they sold out anentire theater.
Kevin (15:41):
Yeah, I'm looking at the acquired list right now and one
of the episodes that theyrecommend you start with is the
Rolex one and I was like, oh,Rolex, that'd be interesting.
It's five hours, which is forme, at two X it's only two and a
half hours, but I got to clearoff two and a half hours to
listen to the Rolex episode.
Jordan (15:59):
All right, let's go into 2016 to 2020.
So this is like when celebritypodcasts started rising and we
have like influencer shows andit starts going mainstream.
You know, we have like theCOVID podcast boom.
First one is Lost Culturistas,which is the culture
commentators who have become theculture.
The Daily, which is the pioneerof daily news podcasts.
(16:20):
Call Her Daddy, which created anew interview standard.
I think she kind of likeinvented the pajama party
podcast genre.
Moonface, highly personalfiction that helps us understand
ourselves more deeply.
Dolly Parton's America, how amusic icon reflects our culture
back to us.
And the rest is history.
History from hosts that feellike your smartest friends.
(16:42):
I have not listened to a singleone of these podcasts as in
this list and, yes, I tend toagree.
Kevin (16:49):
This is not my.
This is not my era ofpodcasting.
For sure, I'd listened to thedaily pretty regularly, but
that's it.
Alban (16:56):
I have not even heard of moon face Every other one I've
heard of and yet maybe hadn'tlistened.
Moon face totally new.
So I think I want to go findout an episode and listen to it
and figure out what this isabout.
But I did end up researchingsome of these just to learn Las
Culturistas I didn't know muchabout it and I'm reading it.
(17:17):
And Bowen, yang edited thispodcast on his own using
Audacity in the beginning, whileapplying to be on SNL and doing
auditions, I found this storyabout using Audacity to edit it
and I was like, oh, that's socool that at least feels very
relatable for all of thepodcasters that we know.
Jordan (17:36):
Wow, I thought that that podcast came out after he was
on SNL, so that's reallysurprising.
Yeah, um, yeah, the daily.
I was not surprised to see thisone list and they even
mentioned that.
You know, the daily kind ofpioneered how news organizations
deliver news.
It's not like this rapid fire,like here's all the current
events that are happening today,like the daily just focuses on
(17:58):
one thing.
They're going to deep dive intoit.
You're gonna understand it andthat's it for the day.
Alban (18:01):
There's something nice about it that feels like we are
going to bracket the amount oftime that you're going to invest
in knowing about this thing andyou want to feel like I'm up to
date on what's happening in thenews and we've seen it in lots
of other areas where it's likehey, do you want to keep up with
podcasting?
Read pod news.
You read it.
It takes you like six minutes aday and you feel comfortable,
(18:23):
like I know what's going on inthis industry and the Daily was
that for US news, and I feellike you're always are kind of
caught up.
You're like OK, I know what'sgoing on.
I did find this little anecdotewhen I was reading about some
of these Michael Barbaro's linehere's what else you need to
know today.
Kevin (18:44):
He just said that in episode two and they're like
that's not a really good use itagain and it just stuck in there
forever.
I'm always impressed with thedailies ability to have it seems
like they have deep knowledgeof topics that just happened
yesterday.
There's a lot of stuff shakingdown, like in the middle East
right now.
This is a very current event.
Trump just announced that hehelped negotiate a ceasefire.
This was like Tuesday night orsomething.
(19:05):
And then Wednesday's.
The daily is like the title ofthe episode is Will the
Ceasefire Hold?
Like somehow they went fromannouncement of ceasefire to
fully produced podcast episodeyou know 20, 30 minute episode
within 12 hours and they broughtin all this you know back
knowledge.
So it's like they must havethis team that is constantly
working on all these currentevents and then they have this
(19:28):
amazing ability to bring it alltogether quickly in a highly
produced podcast episode on veryshort notice, and I always find
that massively impressive.
Alban (19:35):
And most of the reporters who are doing it are also
writing the story that's goingto end up on the front page of
the New York Times, like thenext morning.
Kevin (19:42):
Yeah, and they're all excellent podcasters too.
They've got great voices.
They explain things very well.
It's very impressive.
Jordan (19:48):
All right, let's get into the last era.
This is the social mediacrossovers, global storytelling
and expert led edutainment.
So first up, of course, we haveHuberman lab, translating
health information for everybody.
Suave exploring life afterprison with a human story at its
heart.
Then we have sweet bobby, theshow with a twist that made her
(20:09):
jaws drop, baby this is kikipalmer candid conversations with
an undeniably charismatic hostand finally, therapist with jake
shane.
Advice that only an internetaddict could give.
Um.
Out of this list, I've listenedto one podcast and that was
Sweet Bobby, and it was a veryplot twisty podcast and I see
(20:30):
why it's on the list.
But the rest of them I haven'tlistened to.
Alban (20:33):
It's about a woman who's catfished, right Mm.
Hmm, okay, this would be a goodone.
I didn't know much about it,and then I started reading a
little bit.
Jordan (20:47):
I was like, okay, it I get why people, why this is on
the list like the top list forweeks and weeks and weeks this
is.
Kevin (20:54):
This is a great era.
I I listened to a lot ofhuberman lab again this.
These are longer, not all ofthem.
What's weird about human lab isthat he will drop, you know,
two and a half hour episode, afour and a hour episode, and
then he'll drop a 37 minuteepisode and so and I think maybe
it's a little bit of a theme in, like some of these shows that
we think are most successful,like they don't seem to follow
(21:17):
rules.
They just kind of do what theydo.
Most indie podcasters.
When you talk to them you'relike, oh, what's your show about
?
What do you do?
Do you interview people?
Is it just you?
And how long your episodes?
Like they have good answers forall these things.
I feel like if we sit down withsome of the people who their
shows appear on this list,they're just, you know, some
episodes are four hours, someepisodes are 30 minutes.
(21:37):
Some do you publish regularlySometimes, yeah, sometimes we
try to hit every week orsometimes, like the daily hits
daily, of course, but like HumanLab, for example, I don't
necessarily know that hepublishes every single week, and
a lot of these shows seem tobreak a lot of rules, which I
think, as indie podcasters, Ihope maybe the takeaway from
that is like don't feel thepressure, don't feel constrained
(21:59):
that you might not be doingsomething right.
Right, that some of the biggestshows that exist in podcasting
don't follow rules or breakrules, or they're kind of all
over the place.
Jordan (22:07):
Yeah, the rules are not one size fits all.
Just do whatever is going toserve your audience best, going
to serve you best as a podcaster, so you don't burn out and you
can continue doing what you'repassionate about, absolutely.
Alban (22:18):
All right, so can we go into what we feel like was
missed out on this, or just likein our lists what things would
be on there that didn't make ithere.
Jordan (22:26):
Absolutely, Alban.
Do you want to start it?
Alban (22:28):
Well, I went and looked.
I know why these didn't make itbecause part of what they want
to do is kind of sample somefrom each year about.
You know, they're trying to getthem from different eras and
all my big podcasts.
Most of them came out in like2008, 2009 period, so I
understand why, came out in like2008, 2009 period.
(22:51):
So I understand why.
But like no radio lab nohardcore history.
No reply.
All yeah, WTF with Mark Maron,Freakonomics Radio.
I probably would not have thisjob if it wasn't Freakonomics
Radio.
Jordan (22:59):
Really.
Alban (23:00):
I'm sure I've told this story before, but between law
school and getting my first jobas a lawyer, I just need
something to do.
So I was mowing lawns and Ilistened to the entire back
catalog of Freakonomics radioand there was an episode about
quitting something and like notfalling prey to the sunk cost
fallacy.
You have to stick withsomething because you paid for
it.
And I remember this distinctthought I know where I was and I
(23:24):
was like I'm not the kind ofperson who'd do that.
And then, a year and a halflater, I'm like I really do not
like being a lawyer.
I've got to move.
And then I'm like I can'treally do it.
And then I was like, dude, ayear and a half ago, you're
mowing lawns, going like ofcourse I would quit.
Yeah, you've got to do it, but Ikept thinking about that
episode as I made that, thatdecision.
So Freakonomics Radio maybeFreakonomics Radio is actually
(23:45):
top of the list for me.
Jordan (23:46):
Wow, one of the ones that was on my list was on your
list too.
That's, of course, reply All.
I feel like that was such ahuge podcast that really got me
into that kind of deep dive onweird stuff genre, if that makes
sense.
The other two that I was reallysurprised did not make it on
there were Welcome to Night Vale.
(24:07):
I feel like Welcome to NightVale was such an interesting
narrative fiction podcast and Imean they're still touring like
today Like they've touredeverywhere.
They came to like Boise.
No one comes to Boise and so Iknow they're just like
constantly touring and doing allthese live shows and I think it
was just like such a hugepodcast for the genre.
(24:28):
And then my last one that wasreally surprised was on here was
Up and Vanished by TenderfootTV.
Alban (24:35):
Oh yeah.
Jordan (24:36):
I mean the first season.
Like Payne Lindsey, he didn'tknow anything about like
investigative journalism oranything like that, and Up and
Vanished was really the podcastwhere he like took interest in a
story and then like did theinvestigation himself.
He's basically like an armchairdetective and he's going and
talking to people and likemaking this documentary series
and then, based on all thisevidence, he like solves the
(24:58):
case and then the guy goes tojail, right Like.
I just felt like that was sucha huge moment in podcasting
history.
Alban (25:05):
Imagine committing a crime and you're like I got away
with it.
And then someone's like apodcaster and investigates it
and you're like and you'rebusted.
Jordan (25:13):
Yeah, like some handsome dude with like a microphone
just shows up on your doorstepand he's like, hey, you want to
talk?
And you're like, yeah, sure,man.
Alban (25:20):
Oh wait, so did the.
Did he actually interview theperson who did the crime?
Jordan (25:23):
Oh gosh, it's been years since I listened to it, but I
think I remember the guy beingon the podcast.
Oh yeah.
I don't remember exactly.
Alban (25:32):
Kevin, what's on your list?
Kevin (25:34):
Okay, I got a lot, so I'll just run through them
quickly.
First S town.
You guys listen to S town.
Jordan (25:39):
I haven't yet.
You've recommended it so manytimes and I feel like S town.
Alban (25:43):
I kind of just put it in the cereal bucket.
I thought of it as like acereal episode yeah, oh, that's
right.
Jordan (25:48):
I think I went to listen to it and it was paywalled and
I was like nah yeah, I don'tknow what they've done with that
.
Kevin (25:53):
I listened to it years ago but it's great and I've
introduced a lot of people thatlike get excited about
podcasting after listening to stown uh, how I built this.
Where's that?
How?
I built this great show, tons ofamazing episodes and yeah, I
got left off somehow.
Uh, akimbo, smaller show,probably like seth godin show.
Yeah, seth godin akimbo isgreat.
(26:13):
Honestly, with barry weiss,great show.
And uh, I also think I I wouldput the tim ferriss show on
there, but I don't love everyepisode.
I don't love every episode, butthe ones that are great are
really great.
And then this is just I get it.
Apple not wanting to be likethis show is probably too
controversial for them to put ontheir list, but it's the
biggest podcast in podcastingand has been for many years.
(26:35):
The Joe Rogan experience itjust got.
I see why they didn't want toput it on there but, how do you
not Like?
it just is the biggest show inpodcasting.
Jordan (26:43):
Yeah, the second that you started talking about that I
had this like face palm momentof like, oh my gosh, how did I
miss Joe Rogan?
Crime junkie.
But I don't know.
Yeah, I'm sure.
Kevin (26:53):
Apple just doesn't want the pushback because there's
people who just love it and thenthere's a lot of people who
just hate it.
It's too controversial for themto add to the list, but at the
same time it is the biggest showin podcasting right now and
possibly ever.
Alban (27:06):
All lists, I think, remind you your list should be
different.
You know, if you just pick thetop 20 biggest shows of all time
, most of those would not begreat picks for any individual
person.
I got tons of coolrecommendations here.
I'm going to listen to a few ofthese shows.
Kevin (27:20):
Yeah.
Alban (27:25):
I'd like to hear I mean, this isn't an official sound off
question, but, like, what aresome of the formative podcasts
for our listeners?
What do you listen to thatdidn't make this list or what
would be at the top of yours?
Kevin (27:33):
Yeah, Maybe a way to frame that would be when you
bump into somebody and you starttalking about podcasting.
If you find out that they arelooking for their next podcast
to start listening to, orthey've never listened to a
podcast, what do you recommendto them besides your own show?
Jordan (27:46):
And then for our next episode, be sure to text us your
tips for finding guests andmaking sure that they're a good
fit for your podcast, and we'llbe sharing those on the next
episode.
So until next time, keeppodcasting.
Well, Jordan, I'm glad you're back.
I'm glad you had fun on yourtrip.
Jordan (00:03):
Yeah, I had so much fun.
Kevin (00:05):
But you can never do that again.
Jordan (00:08):
Yeah, you had a late night on Thursday.
Kevin (00:10):
I did.
I thought for sure I hadThursday carved out to edit
Buzzcast and I thought certainlyI can get this done in a day.
And then, you know, I kind ofdillied a little bit in the
morning.
I opened up the recording, Idid a few rough edits, I got
through the first five minutesor whatever, and I'm like, oh,
it's going fine, hop into someother stuff.
And I came back to it afterlunch and then it was probably
(00:30):
like two o'clock, I don't knowroughly sometime around, when I
pinged Alban and I was like nineminutes in and we had two hours
of recording material and I waslike nine minutes in.
I was like Alban, this istaking forever.
I'm in trouble.
Jordan (00:44):
Yeah.
Kevin (00:45):
And I think we had something to do that evening.
So I had to stop at like sixo'clock or seven o'clock and go
do whatever we did that night,and then I had to come back and
it was like a midnight deal.
Jordan (00:53):
Oh my gosh.
Kevin (00:54):
I'm glad we don't publish at midnight anymore.
I wouldn't miss the deadline,but I knew I had till 8am, so
caffeine and hours were on myside.
Jordan (01:02):
Yeah, that's the thing.
Whenever people say like, okay,like when estimating how much
time it takes to edit something,it's usually like three times
the amount of whatever yourecorded, and I think that
that's true.
If you're not like a verydetail oriented person, like if
you're just like hacking, thatsucker it's.
Yeah, you could probably get itin like a two hour episode in
six hours, but if you take anypride in your work, it's going
(01:27):
to be like two days.
Yeah, I don't know what it is,it's so weird.
Kevin (01:32):
And I was like surely I used to be faster at this, but I
haven't done it in such a longtime.
I had to relearn, like when Iwas starting I was.
I started the first 20 minutesor so.
I was just like watching youtubekeyboard shortcuts and stuff,
because I'm like got a full edto do.
I need to remember how to dothis thing.
Oh yeah, what software did youuse?
(01:52):
Hindenburg, which I still love,but I forgot.
I knew how to like cut, but Ididn't know how to like cut and
collapse, like get the rest ofthe recordings to come down.
And I'm pretty sure I was stilldoing it the wrong way, because
I figured out a way to make itwork and and I'm like I'm just
going to do this- yeah.
It was a little bit clunky, likeI had to drag the position
thing through all the differenttracks and then I did a cut.
I think there's a way that youcan just like hit it on one
track and cut, and then theother tracks still follow suit.
(02:14):
Anyway, I was terrible.
I'm glad you're back and I dolike editing.
I do, I find it enjoyable.
Jordan (02:20):
Yeah, it can be.
Alban (02:21):
Do you know how financial services companies will force
everyone to take a week vacation, so that's how they can
discover fraud.
Is you're out of your job?
Someone else has to do your jobfor at least a week, so they
can tell there's somethinghappening.
The sabbaticals are our way ofappreciating the work everyone
else does, because I never feltanything.
(02:42):
We would have an outline andwe'd go through, we go.
All right, we didn't get thatstory, toss it.
And sometimes I'd see onJordan's face a little bit of
like oh, even if it was a storyyou didn't like, I still saw it.
And then I had mine, I had thestory I didn't care about.
But we go, we don't have timefor that.
And I went oh, I felt like man,I prepped this story that I
(03:04):
didn't even want to talk about,it's still, you felt.
I felt a little bit like oh,man, we dropped that.
And then we cut a story in theedit which was the weakest one
and I went oh man, I was likeit's good to feel that
experience a little bit for you.
Jordan (03:25):
And I think it was nice for Kevin to feel the other side
, the edit side, of what youwork on.
Well, thanks you guys.
I really appreciate you takingover so I can go get on some
roller coasters and have a greatweek.
Alban (03:32):
Well, we're glad to have you back.
Two weeks ago, we kind ofpreviewed this.
We talked about how Apple addedpodcast iTunes 20 years ago,
and then Apple just put out thisreally cool press release where
they went through and they said, ok, 20 years, we're picking 20
(03:54):
podcasts that are 20 of ourfavorite shows that help
exemplify what's best aboutpodcasting, and it's a it's a
cool list.
Jordan (04:02):
Yeah, I love what they said at the beginning of this
list because this was puttogether by the Apple Podcast
Editorial team, so obviouslythey have seen through the years
, all the podcasts that are, youknow, top of the charts making
big moves.
And they said this list is alove letter to the podcast that
left a lasting impact on us andthe ones we continue to
recommend again and again.
(04:23):
They are shows with hosts thatfeel like friends and shows that
make us press play immediatelyon the latest episode to hear
what happens next.
These shows have measurablyimproved our lives and helped
define this medium we know andlove.
I thought that was great.
So, all the podcasts that theychose it's 20 podcasts for 20
years that you know changed themedium in some format.
(04:43):
They were chosen for pushingboundaries, shaping genres or
setting standard for creativityand storytelling, and they
divide the list into fourfive-year eras, between 2005 and
2025, as a snapshot ofpodcasting's evolution.
I just thought everything thatthey did with this list is so
cool.
It was very thought out, it wasvery intentional.
It was really fun to go backand see what podcasts that I
(05:06):
knew that made the list and theones that I was like I've never
heard of that.
Alban (05:11):
Yeah, there are quite a few I didn't know about.
Jordan (05:12):
Yeah.
Alban (05:13):
I think starting these lists with this is our love
letter to these shows, is theway that these lists should be
written, because the first thingI see is I go, oh, but what
about this show, what about thatshow?
My list would be different.
Jordan (05:26):
Yeah.
Alban (05:26):
And the whole point of having a perspective is, of
course.
Of course, the list will bedifferent.
This is the shows we love, butlots of good shows Are we going
to go through and talk aboutthese.
Jordan (05:36):
I would love to, and I think at the end it'd be kind of
cool to see what ones you thinkshould have made the list,
because I also have a couplethat was like man, I was really
surprised that wasn't on thelist.
But yeah, let's kick it offwith 2005 to 2010.
So these are like thepioneering years, these are the
first years.
This is like the public radiostyle.
So, first off, they have loveand radio with off-kilter
episodes that get under yourskin in the best way.
(05:57):
This american life no surprisethere, right, uh, the show that
invented a format and thenperfected it.
And then they also have 99%invisible.
Kevin (06:07):
All right, my pick out of this section is 99% invisible.
That is a show that I follow.
This is an interesting podcastfor me and I'm wondering if you
guys view this the same way thateither one of you listen to the
show.
Yes.
Alban (06:19):
I listened to every episode for many years and then
have dropped off in the last fewthat's where I was.
Kevin (06:26):
I used to listen to every single one and now I really
kind of only listen on roadtrips, when I get through sort
of like topical stuff likewhat's going on today.
That's sort of what carries meweek to week in my podcast
listening and 99% invisible.
It just feels like there'salways something good there.
I know that I can always, if Iget through all the podcasting
(06:46):
news stuff and the currentevents stuff and the who was
everybody talking about, who wason Joe Rogan or Human Lab or
whatever, and I get through allthat stuff and then something
else to listen to.
Like 99% Invisible is a showthat I can continue to go back
to and just scroll through someepisode titles and be like that
sounds interesting and it neverdisappoints.
Jordan (07:02):
That's exactly where it sits.
For me, that's my relationshipwith that podcast is I've been
through everything.
I have nothing less to oh wait,99% invisible.
I'm going to just findsomething, and it's always a
good time.
Kevin (07:12):
It's always like why do I not listen to this more every
time, I feel like if you listento this consistently and I
probably should do it moreyou're probably going to be the
most interesting person at theparty always, because it's just
chock full of like all theselittle details and things that
you know, you don't know.
You never walk away fromlistening to an episode 99%
invisible, without someinteresting facts that you can't
(07:32):
wait to share.
You can't wait to drop it atthe next social event you're at.
Yeah.
Alban (07:36):
I feel that way about this American life.
This American life was thefirst podcast I ever listened to
at least I can remember and thecombination of like there's
real journalism, but thenthere's also like memoir, and
then there's like culturalcommentary and then there'll be
like a poem, and I just lovedlike that.
They have a theme and it'ssometimes a very loose theme and
(08:00):
they're kind of crafting a fewstories together and then, like
David Sedaris comes on at theend and reads a short story, and
I loved it.
I mean, I remember downloadinglike the this American Life app
so that I could get all the backcatalog and listen to it, and
it was another one that I waswondering if there was too much.
That was good.
I know that seems like such astrange thing to say, but same
(08:22):
with 99% Invisible.
You like you get into the samerhythm and there's just like you
look, at some point there'slike nine episodes in the back
that I've already downloaded andI'm like I'm going to take a
little bit of a break and I'venoticed I haven't come back, but
these were like the 99%Invisible and this American Life
are two of my very favoriteshows, the very beginning of me
listening to podcasts.
Jordan (08:42):
Yeah, that's what I loved about reply.
All was that it was all justbanger after banger, but it
would have come out once everylike month or three months, and
so it was just like this treatthat you got every now and then,
and so it was like really easyto keep up with it, because you
didn't have to listen everysingle week.
Alban (08:59):
Yeah, what a strange experience, though, that we talk
about the value of having aweekly show and then there are
some it's really nice to be likeyeah, there's eight episodes a
year, but every one of them islike awesome and you get so
excited for it.
Maybe it's just that thequality has to be so so much
higher when you have a show likethat.
Jordan (09:20):
Yeah, all right, let's move into the next era, 2011 to
2015.
So this is like the podcastingboom and the shows in this list
are like experimental, they'rebingeable.
So this is when people startedlike discovering that little
purple app on their phone andlistening to things like Serial.
So the first one is the Truth,and this is modern short stories
(09:41):
that venture into the uncannyvalley.
The Read the original hang withfriends, culture, conversation,
and it's interesting becausethe read they said that we're so
accustomed now to shows withhot takes and a personal tone
that's easy to forget how theread did it first and continues
to do it so incredibly well.
So that's why that one made iton the list.
Then we have, of course, songexploder fall in love with your
(10:03):
favorite songs all over Serial,a show that changed everything
for podcasting Mystery Show, lowStakes Mysteries with
Emotionally High StakesInvestigations and, of course,
acquired world's biggestcompanies enthusiastically
unpacked.
I was not surprised to see SongExploder Serial and Acquired on
this.
Kevin (10:23):
Yeah, looking at this list reminds me like 2011 to
2015,.
It was sort of like podcastingis becoming a thing Now.
Obviously, the shows that wejust talked about that came
before this, but this is, I mean, serial sort of introduced
podcasting to so many people andit's this little four year
period where all these amazingshows and new formats and all
(10:44):
this type of stuff launched.
I can't even believe the depthof content Just take like Sonic
Splitter, for example, liketheir back catalog is so massive
and the production quality isso high and the amount of energy
that must just go intoarranging recording sessions
with all these high profile,very famous, very busy people.
(11:04):
Oftentimes they bring a lot ofmaterials into these podcast
episodes.
So you get like earlyrecordings or you get like
studio sessions and stuff.
Oh my gosh, this is just agreat era of podcasting in
general.
Jordan (11:16):
Oh yeah.
Alban (11:17):
Song Exploder, one of my favorite podcasts of all time.
Jordan (11:20):
Really.
Alban (11:20):
So many times I would listen to a podcast and I'm
going through the episode andI'm like this song, like I know
this song and I don't like it.
And then, as I hear the storyand the songwriting and then
what's happening with, like thedrumbeat and how it changes, and
then they're like, oh, and thenwe change keys and then like,
(11:41):
as I learned about the song andthere was so much more happening
, and then they always play thesong at the end.
I'd never have left one ofthose episodes and not been like
this is a song that I like nowand maybe it's just that there's
so much more meaning in thesong after I've heard it.
And I've probably shared thatpodcast more than any other,
because if I listened to a song,somebody likes that music and I
(12:04):
learned more about the song.
I'm like, oh, have you seenthis?
Like this is your favorite bandand this is one of their
well-known songs.
But I never knew this backstoryand so I shared it all the time
.
One of the things I love, ifyou ever go back to the very
beginning.
Richie K Sherway is in thepodcast.
He is asking questions and theyanswer, but then he said he was
(12:26):
inspired by I think it wasinside the actor's studio where
they edited out all thequestions and it's like episode
two the format changes where allof the questions have been
edited out and so it's almostlike the artist is just telling
the story and they explain themelody and then you hear the
melody and they explain somelyrics.
(12:47):
Know the melody?
And then you hear the melodyand they explain some lyrics and
then just you hear that part ofthe lyrics.
It's just such a well done showI need to go back and start
listening a lot more.
Mystery Show is another showthat stands out here, one of the
only podcasts, I think, thatwent like so deep into quality
that it ended up kind of killingthe show.
That went like so deep intoquality that it ended up kind of
(13:09):
killing the show.
Pretty much everyone who Ithink has listened to it likes
the episodes.
But then shortly after Gimletbrought it in or after Gimlet
was sold to Spotify, it wascanceled and they were just like
you know the amount of effortthat was going in like some of
these episodes had hundreds ofhours of research and interviews
to produce a single episode,while amazing for all of us who
(13:31):
get to listen and we're like oh,there's a ton of effort that
went in here.
It sounded like that was kindof.
The downfall in the end was howmuch was going into each of
these episodes?
Jordan (13:40):
Yeah, that was one I hadn't heard of, which I was
really surprised, because I lovepretty much all of Gimlet's
shows, and so that's on my listnow of things I need to binge.
Kevin (13:49):
Yeah, did you guys notice that the Apple podcast
editorial team did somethingreally nice?
Here is they didn't justrecognize these shows, they also
said you can find some of theirfavorite episodes.
So it's kind of like a starthere list if you've never heard
the show.
Jordan (14:02):
Yeah.
Kevin (14:03):
And so I'm super excited for the next road trip I have,
because some of these shows,like you said, I haven't heard
of them.
I don't know how these showsare so big and I've been in
podcasting for so long I'vemissed some of these shows.
But you also have great jumpingoff points.
Jordan (14:17):
Yeah, that was something I was really excited about too,
cause we talk about this allthe time with pod role.
When someone you know curatessomething and they recommend
this is a specific episode thatyou'll really enjoy, that this
is a specific show that youreally enjoy, you go all right,
I'm going to trust you on that.
I'm going to listen to that one.
Kevin (14:31):
Yeah, and if it's a serial show, then fine, start at
the beginning.
But for episodic shows, wheredo you go?
Just the latest or what youkind of want to start with?
I don't know.
It's like if you're introducingsomeone to a band, you don't
just say, just go listen to thisband randomly, you say start
with this song and then go tothis song and then from there
you'll be hooked and you can godiscover more stuff from there.
Alban (14:50):
And there's different content that works for people
who've listened to a podcast orlistened to an artist for a long
period and that you like.
You're like, you know thethemes, you know the jokes.
It's very accessible to you now.
But for somebody who's brandnew, there's a different type of
thing you'll recommend.
So I like that they've donethat here, acquired as well Lots
of good episodes in there.
That's another one that I'venot even gotten close to
(15:12):
listening to every episode, butI remember listening to quite a
few early on, like I rememberthe Google maps.
One was like a four hour Googlemaps history and I remember
just being like how did they dothis much research and learn
everything about, like the teamof three people that did Google
Maps like years before they wereacquired?
Just a really cool show thatalso is kind of broken out into
(15:35):
the mainstream so much that theydid that one episode where they
had, like they sold out anentire theater.
Kevin (15:41):
Yeah, I'm looking at the acquired list right now and one
of the episodes that theyrecommend you start with is the
Rolex one and I was like, oh,Rolex, that'd be interesting.
It's five hours, which is forme, at two X it's only two and a
half hours, but I got to clearoff two and a half hours to
listen to the Rolex episode.
Jordan (15:59):
All right, let's go into 2016 to 2020.
So this is like when celebritypodcasts started rising and we
have like influencer shows andit starts going mainstream.
You know, we have like theCOVID podcast boom.
First one is Lost Culturistas,which is the culture
commentators who have become theculture.
The Daily, which is the pioneerof daily news podcasts.
(16:20):
Call Her Daddy, which created anew interview standard.
I think she kind of likeinvented the pajama party
podcast genre.
Moonface, highly personalfiction that helps us understand
ourselves more deeply.
Dolly Parton's America, how amusic icon reflects our culture
back to us.
And the rest is history.
History from hosts that feellike your smartest friends.
(16:42):
I have not listened to a singleone of these podcasts as in
this list and, yes, I tend toagree.
Kevin (16:49):
This is not my.
This is not my era ofpodcasting.
For sure, I'd listened to thedaily pretty regularly, but
that's it.
Alban (16:56):
I have not even heard of moon face Every other one I've
heard of and yet maybe hadn'tlistened.
Moon face totally new.
So I think I want to go findout an episode and listen to it
and figure out what this isabout.
But I did end up researchingsome of these just to learn Las
Culturistas I didn't know muchabout it and I'm reading it.
(17:17):
And Bowen, yang edited thispodcast on his own using
Audacity in the beginning, whileapplying to be on SNL and doing
auditions, I found this storyabout using Audacity to edit it
and I was like, oh, that's socool that at least feels very
relatable for all of thepodcasters that we know.
Jordan (17:36):
Wow, I thought that that podcast came out after he was
on SNL, so that's reallysurprising.
Yeah, um, yeah, the daily.
I was not surprised to see thisone list and they even
mentioned that.
You know, the daily kind ofpioneered how news organizations
deliver news.
It's not like this rapid fire,like here's all the current
events that are happening today,like the daily just focuses on
(17:58):
one thing.
They're going to deep dive intoit.
You're gonna understand it andthat's it for the day.
Alban (18:01):
There's something nice about it that feels like we are
going to bracket the amount oftime that you're going to invest
in knowing about this thing andyou want to feel like I'm up to
date on what's happening in thenews and we've seen it in lots
of other areas where it's likehey, do you want to keep up with
podcasting?
Read pod news.
You read it.
It takes you like six minutes aday and you feel comfortable,
(18:23):
like I know what's going on inthis industry and the Daily was
that for US news, and I feellike you're always are kind of
caught up.
You're like OK, I know what'sgoing on.
I did find this little anecdotewhen I was reading about some
of these Michael Barbaro's linehere's what else you need to
know today.
Kevin (18:44):
He just said that in episode two and they're like
that's not a really good use itagain and it just stuck in there
forever.
I'm always impressed with thedailies ability to have it seems
like they have deep knowledgeof topics that just happened
yesterday.
There's a lot of stuff shakingdown, like in the middle East
right now.
This is a very current event.
Trump just announced that hehelped negotiate a ceasefire.
This was like Tuesday night orsomething.
(19:05):
And then Wednesday's.
The daily is like the title ofthe episode is Will the
Ceasefire Hold?
Like somehow they went fromannouncement of ceasefire to
fully produced podcast episodeyou know 20, 30 minute episode
within 12 hours and they broughtin all this you know back
knowledge.
So it's like they must havethis team that is constantly
working on all these currentevents and then they have this
(19:28):
amazing ability to bring it alltogether quickly in a highly
produced podcast episode on veryshort notice, and I always find
that massively impressive.
Alban (19:35):
And most of the reporters who are doing it are also
writing the story that's goingto end up on the front page of
the New York Times, like thenext morning.
Kevin (19:42):
Yeah, and they're all excellent podcasters too.
They've got great voices.
They explain things very well.
It's very impressive.
Jordan (19:48):
All right, let's get into the last era.
This is the social mediacrossovers, global storytelling
and expert led edutainment.
So first up, of course, we haveHuberman lab, translating
health information for everybody.
Suave exploring life afterprison with a human story at its
heart.
Then we have sweet bobby, theshow with a twist that made her
(20:09):
jaws drop, baby this is kikipalmer candid conversations with
an undeniably charismatic hostand finally, therapist with jake
shane.
Advice that only an internetaddict could give.
Um.
Out of this list, I've listenedto one podcast and that was
Sweet Bobby, and it was a veryplot twisty podcast and I see
(20:30):
why it's on the list.
But the rest of them I haven'tlistened to.
Alban (20:33):
It's about a woman who's catfished, right Mm.
Hmm, okay, this would be a goodone.
I didn't know much about it,and then I started reading a
little bit.
Jordan (20:47):
I was like, okay, it I get why people, why this is on
the list like the top list forweeks and weeks and weeks this
is.
Kevin (20:54):
This is a great era.
I I listened to a lot ofhuberman lab again this.
These are longer, not all ofthem.
What's weird about human lab isthat he will drop, you know,
two and a half hour episode, afour and a hour episode, and
then he'll drop a 37 minuteepisode and so and I think maybe
it's a little bit of a theme in, like some of these shows that
we think are most successful,like they don't seem to follow
(21:17):
rules.
They just kind of do what theydo.
Most indie podcasters.
When you talk to them you'relike, oh, what's your show about
?
What do you do?
Do you interview people?
Is it just you?
And how long your episodes?
Like they have good answers forall these things.
I feel like if we sit down withsome of the people who their
shows appear on this list,they're just, you know, some
episodes are four hours, someepisodes are 30 minutes.
(21:37):
Some do you publish regularlySometimes, yeah, sometimes we
try to hit every week orsometimes, like the daily hits
daily, of course, but like HumanLab, for example, I don't
necessarily know that hepublishes every single week, and
a lot of these shows seem tobreak a lot of rules, which I
think, as indie podcasters, Ihope maybe the takeaway from
that is like don't feel thepressure, don't feel constrained
(21:59):
that you might not be doingsomething right.
Right, that some of the biggestshows that exist in podcasting
don't follow rules or breakrules, or they're kind of all
over the place.
Jordan (22:07):
Yeah, the rules are not one size fits all.
Just do whatever is going toserve your audience best, going
to serve you best as a podcaster, so you don't burn out and you
can continue doing what you'repassionate about, absolutely.
Alban (22:18):
All right, so can we go into what we feel like was
missed out on this, or just likein our lists what things would
be on there that didn't make ithere.
Jordan (22:26):
Absolutely, Alban.
Do you want to start it?
Alban (22:28):
Well, I went and looked.
I know why these didn't make itbecause part of what they want
to do is kind of sample somefrom each year about.
You know, they're trying to getthem from different eras and
all my big podcasts.
Most of them came out in like2008, 2009 period, so I
understand why, came out in like2008, 2009 period.
(22:51):
So I understand why.
But like no radio lab nohardcore history.
No reply.
All yeah, WTF with Mark Maron,Freakonomics Radio.
I probably would not have thisjob if it wasn't Freakonomics
Radio.
Jordan (22:59):
Really.
Alban (23:00):
I'm sure I've told this story before, but between law
school and getting my first jobas a lawyer, I just need
something to do.
So I was mowing lawns and Ilistened to the entire back
catalog of Freakonomics radioand there was an episode about
quitting something and like notfalling prey to the sunk cost
fallacy.
You have to stick withsomething because you paid for
it.
And I remember this distinctthought I know where I was and I
(23:24):
was like I'm not the kind ofperson who'd do that.
And then, a year and a halflater, I'm like I really do not
like being a lawyer.
I've got to move.
And then I'm like I can'treally do it.
And then I was like, dude, ayear and a half ago, you're
mowing lawns, going like ofcourse I would quit.
Yeah, you've got to do it, but Ikept thinking about that
episode as I made that, thatdecision.
So Freakonomics Radio maybeFreakonomics Radio is actually
(23:45):
top of the list for me.
Jordan (23:46):
Wow, one of the ones that was on my list was on your
list too.
That's, of course, reply All.
I feel like that was such ahuge podcast that really got me
into that kind of deep dive onweird stuff genre, if that makes
sense.
The other two that I was reallysurprised did not make it on
there were Welcome to Night Vale.
(24:07):
I feel like Welcome to NightVale was such an interesting
narrative fiction podcast and Imean they're still touring like
today Like they've touredeverywhere.
They came to like Boise.
No one comes to Boise and so Iknow they're just like
constantly touring and doing allthese live shows and I think it
was just like such a hugepodcast for the genre.
(24:28):
And then my last one that wasreally surprised was on here was
Up and Vanished by TenderfootTV.
Alban (24:35):
Oh yeah.
Jordan (24:36):
I mean the first season.
Like Payne Lindsey, he didn'tknow anything about like
investigative journalism oranything like that, and Up and
Vanished was really the podcastwhere he like took interest in a
story and then like did theinvestigation himself.
He's basically like an armchairdetective and he's going and
talking to people and likemaking this documentary series
and then, based on all thisevidence, he like solves the
(24:58):
case and then the guy goes tojail, right Like.
I just felt like that was sucha huge moment in podcasting
history.
Alban (25:05):
Imagine committing a crime and you're like I got away
with it.
And then someone's like apodcaster and investigates it
and you're like and you'rebusted.
Jordan (25:13):
Yeah, like some handsome dude with like a microphone
just shows up on your doorstepand he's like, hey, you want to
talk?
And you're like, yeah, sure,man.
Alban (25:20):
Oh wait, so did the.
Did he actually interview theperson who did the crime?
Jordan (25:23):
Oh gosh, it's been years since I listened to it, but I
think I remember the guy beingon the podcast.
Oh yeah.
I don't remember exactly.
Alban (25:32):
Kevin, what's on your list?
Kevin (25:34):
Okay, I got a lot, so I'll just run through them
quickly.
First S town.
You guys listen to S town.
Jordan (25:39):
I haven't yet.
You've recommended it so manytimes and I feel like S town.
Alban (25:43):
I kind of just put it in the cereal bucket.
I thought of it as like acereal episode yeah, oh, that's
right.
Jordan (25:48):
I think I went to listen to it and it was paywalled and
I was like nah yeah, I don'tknow what they've done with that
.
Kevin (25:53):
I listened to it years ago but it's great and I've
introduced a lot of people thatlike get excited about
podcasting after listening to stown uh, how I built this.
Where's that?
How?
I built this great show, tons ofamazing episodes and yeah, I
got left off somehow.
Uh, akimbo, smaller show,probably like seth godin show.
Yeah, seth godin akimbo isgreat.
(26:13):
Honestly, with barry weiss,great show.
And uh, I also think I I wouldput the tim ferriss show on
there, but I don't love everyepisode.
I don't love every episode, butthe ones that are great are
really great.
And then this is just I get it.
Apple not wanting to be likethis show is probably too
controversial for them to put ontheir list, but it's the
biggest podcast in podcastingand has been for many years.
(26:35):
The Joe Rogan experience itjust got.
I see why they didn't want toput it on there but, how do you
not Like?
it just is the biggest show inpodcasting.
Jordan (26:43):
Yeah, the second that you started talking about that I
had this like face palm momentof like, oh my gosh, how did I
miss Joe Rogan?
Crime junkie.
But I don't know.
Yeah, I'm sure.
Kevin (26:53):
Apple just doesn't want the pushback because there's
people who just love it and thenthere's a lot of people who
just hate it.
It's too controversial for themto add to the list, but at the
same time it is the biggest showin podcasting right now and
possibly ever.
Alban (27:06):
All lists, I think, remind you your list should be
different.
You know, if you just pick thetop 20 biggest shows of all time
, most of those would not begreat picks for any individual
person.
I got tons of coolrecommendations here.
I'm going to listen to a few ofthese shows.
Kevin (27:20):
Yeah.
Alban (27:25):
I'd like to hear I mean, this isn't an official sound off
question, but, like, what aresome of the formative podcasts
for our listeners?
What do you listen to thatdidn't make this list or what
would be at the top of yours?
Kevin (27:33):
Yeah, Maybe a way to frame that would be when you
bump into somebody and you starttalking about podcasting.
If you find out that they arelooking for their next podcast
to start listening to, orthey've never listened to a
podcast, what do you recommendto them besides your own show?
Jordan (27:46):
And then for our next episode, be sure to text us your
tips for finding guests andmaking sure that they're a good
fit for your podcast, and we'llbe sharing those on the next
episode.
So until next time, keeppodcasting.
Popular Podcasts
Bookmarked by Reese's Book Club
Welcome to Bookmarked by Reese’s Book Club — the podcast where great stories, bold women, and irresistible conversations collide! Hosted by award-winning journalist Danielle Robay, each week new episodes balance thoughtful literary insight with the fervor of buzzy book trends, pop culture and more. Bookmarked brings together celebrities, tastemakers, influencers and authors from Reese's Book Club and beyond to share stories that transcend the page. Pull up a chair. You’re not just listening — you’re part of the conversation.
On Purpose with Jay Shetty
I’m Jay Shetty host of On Purpose the worlds #1 Mental Health podcast and I’m so grateful you found us. I started this podcast 5 years ago to invite you into conversations and workshops that are designed to help make you happier, healthier and more healed. I believe that when you (yes you) feel seen, heard and understood you’re able to deal with relationship struggles, work challenges and life’s ups and downs with more ease and grace. I interview experts, celebrities, thought leaders and athletes so that we can grow our mindset, build better habits and uncover a side of them we’ve never seen before. New episodes every Monday and Friday. Your support means the world to me and I don’t take it for granted — click the follow button and leave a review to help us spread the love with On Purpose. I can’t wait for you to listen to your first or 500th episode!
Dateline NBC
Current and classic episodes, featuring compelling true-crime mysteries, powerful documentaries and in-depth investigations. Follow now to get the latest episodes of Dateline NBC completely free, or subscribe to Dateline Premium for ad-free listening and exclusive bonus content: DatelinePremium.com