6 New Ways To Earn Money With Buzzsprout Subscriptions

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Buzzsprout just rolled out a major update to its subscription features! We're talking about the six Buzzsprout Support & Subscriptions options now available. These include premium episodes, ad-free content, back catalog access, early access, subscriber-only podcasts, and listener support. 

We share tips on engaging supporters without adding more work to your production schedule and cover the new Apple Podcasts integration that allows you to manage both platforms from inside your Buzzsprout dashboard.

Mentioned in this episode:

• Apple Podcasts for Creators new artwork page
• Spotify’s public play count feature and why it sparked backlash
• The mystery behind the ATR2100x mic being discontinued

Sound-Off: Have you ever subscribed to a podcast or offered subscriptions on your own show? Which perks made it worth it for you (or your listeners)? 

Contact Buzzcast

• Send us a text message
• Tweet us at @buzzcastpodcast, @albanbrooke, @kfinn, and @JordanPods

Thanks for listening and Keep Podcasting!

Episode Transcript

Alban (00:00):
So we talked about unique podcast marketing ideas last
week.
Uh-huh.
And I was in Vegas for 12 hoursa few days ago and as we're
there, I see an Uber drive byand for some reason the Uber's
in Vegas.
There's advertising everywhere,so they put advertising on
video boards in the back of theUber so that you look in the
rear of the car and then you cansee some advertisement.

(00:23):
Oh yeah, and one we were drivingbehind was advertising a
podcast.

Kevin (00:27):
Which podcast?

Alban (00:28):
I don't know.
It switched too soon for me tonotice the podcast.
I saw Apple podcast, spotifylogos on there and YouTube logo
and I was like, oh, it said,like, listen to the podcast.
And then by then it alreadyswitched.
I was like, oh, that's a uniqueidea.
It's kind of the bumper stickerone, but you swap them in and
out and probably not all thatexpensive to run those ads,

(00:48):
because there's literally tensof thousands of Ubers driving
around with these mobileadvertisers in the back

Kevin (00:54):
Any sort of digital advertising like that, like a
digital billboard or somethingthat switches, gives me anxiety.
Yeah, like, as soon as it.
If it catches my attention andit's something that I'm like oh,
like, I actually need a mobiledetailing service or something
like that, I immediately getanxiety because it's going to
switch before I can capture theinformation.

Alban (01:13):
And it's going to switch.
And you're driving down thehighway and you see it and it
switches and you're like, oh, Ido need an accident attorney
because of that accident Irecently had.
And then it's got the number onthere and it goes away.
So what are you going to do?
Park on the highway and waitfor it to cycle back a minute
later?

Jordan (01:35):
Welcome back to Buzzcast , a podcast about all things
podcasting from the people atBuzzsprout.
Today, we have to talk aboutthis great, big, awesome update
that we have done to Buzzsproutsubscriptions.

Kevin (01:49):
Yes, we introduced two years ago roughly the concept of
Buzzsprout subscriptions, andnow this is even when we pitched
it as a work cycle.
I don't, I don't think I cameup with a fancy name for it.
We just called it Buzzsproutsubscriptions update or
something like that.

Alban (02:02):
Unleashed 2.0.
Right the ultimate version.
Buzzsprout subscriptionsultimate.

Kevin (02:08):
Right, and I will tell you, even in this big update it
was a big update we still didn'tget everything in that I have
in my wish list forsubscriptions.
I still have a few more ideas.
I don't think you'll be shockedby any of them, but I hope,
like what we're trying to dowith everything that we do in
Buzzsprout is we put out ourbest version of the initial idea
to see how much of it resonateswith podcasters, how many of

(02:30):
them start using it, collectsome feedback, get some new
ideas.
Polish refine do so.
So this is like our secondversion.
There might be a third, theremight be a fourth.
We're just going to have to seehow this stuff plays out.
So, first version we tried somereally great stuff, got some
really good feedback, got adecent number of customers that
were engaging it and using it,and now we've done version two,

(02:51):
which is the next round ofimprovement, All right.
So the first thing that isdifferent is that listener
support and subscriptions arenow two separate features in the
UI.

Jordan (03:01):
Nice.

Kevin (03:02):
So before they were kind of bundled together and you
could choose to do premiumcontent or just offer like a
listener support subscription.
And we've got big visions forboth of these things now and so
they've been split out andlistener support is kind of the
same as it was before.
It's just broken out into itsown page with its own settings,
and we did a bunch of work onthe subscription side, and so

(03:23):
when I say we have even moreideas, you can kind of infer
where this might be going Like.
The next big round of revisionsmight be more on the listener
support side.
But listener support is just away for you to turn on the
ability for you to collectdonations right through
Buzzsprout without having to usea third party like Patreon or
buy me coffee or PayPal or cashapp or any of those, and if you
want to use those, you totallycan.

(03:44):
This is just a really easy wayjust to click one button in
Buzzsprout and people can giveyou donations.
We'll collect the money for youin your Buzzsprout account and
then you can cash out wheneveryou want or apply it towards
your Buzzsprout invoices orwhatever.

Jordan (03:56):
And what's great about subscriptions is it's not extra
work for you.
This is literally just liketoggle it on keep doing what
you're doing and then invitelisteners to support your work.

Kevin (04:06):
Right, and that's a very key point in all of this If you
don't ask, you probably won'tget much engagement on it.
Yeah, and we have a like a casestudy on this, because a Pod
news Weekly Review, even thoughthey don't know, they're a case
study.
I have been observing them overthe past couple of years and
for the first year that they hadthis feature turned on, they
had very few people who weresupporting them, and then they

(04:28):
started calling out theirsupporters and thanking them at
the end of every episode.
And then they started callingthem their power supporters.
And then they started invitingtheir power supporters to come
and give like year end podcastpredictions for a special
episode at the end of the year.
They started making it a thingon their podcast and now they
have 18 supporters that aregiving more than $3 a month or

(04:49):
something like that.
So it's not life-changing money, but they're making good money
through people who are justsupporting their podcasts and
all they're doing is thankingthem and calling them out and
telling people how they can alsosupport the show if they're
getting some value from it.
So if you're getting some valuefrom it, so if you're going to

(05:10):
do it, I would suggest you talkabout it and maybe come up with
a good way to engage thosepeople and have some benefit for
them.
Okay, and then the other bigpart of the update was, since
listener support is its ownsection now subscriptions is its
own section as well, and wehave massively added the types
of subscriptions that you canoffer.
So we think about subscriptioncontent just typically being
what we've had for the pastcouple of years, which is bonus

(05:30):
content or special episodes thatyou have to pay to get access
to.
But there's actually lots ofdifferent types of subscriptions
that you can offer, and Applesort of categorized these and
made them a thing in Applepodcast subscriptions two years
ago, and so we've adopted all ofthose subscription types.

(05:52):
We've built them intoBuzzsprout now and we've added
an Apple integration.

Alban (05:53):
Yeah, I remember when they launched these they came
out with five and I was like, oh, that kind of covers all five
and thinking there's probablymore.
I don't really know if there'smore.
They kind of hit.
These are the five types ofpremium content.
You can offer Premium episodes,like Kevin said, kind of like
the bonus content ones that arebehind a paywall.
Early access, which is you getthe same podcast episodes

(06:16):
everybody else gets, but you getthem early.
That catalog you get the sameepisodes that people could have
gotten, but you're the only one,now that you pay, who gets
access to the old episodes.
That's kind of like DanCarlin's hardcore history model.
Subscriber-only podcast, justlike I put everything behind the
paywall.
And then ad-free episodes,which I think are pretty popular

(06:38):
now, especially for the largestshows, where they'll have the
ad version out for everybody.
But if you want to pay more,you can get that ad free version
as a way of you know, like somekind of perk.
And those are the five thatkeep coming up, and so we
supported all five of them and,as we talked about it, I think
Kevin sold me on this the onethat I'm most excited about now

(07:01):
is early access Because the waywe launched it two years ago was
pretty much we were focusing onpremium episodes and bonus
content, and what I saw as oneof the things we learned was
people would say, hey, I'm goingto do bonus content, and then
their supporters are like cool,and like 5%, start paying.

(07:22):
But now they've committed tobonus content for these 5% of
their supporters.
So if you have a small show,you might have 100 people.
You say I'm going to do a bonusepisode every week and five of
them pay for it.
And now that's not sustainable.
You're $15 a month, you'regetting from the five supporters
and now you're going to givethem a bonus episode every week.
The math doesn't work.

(07:43):
Early access is like a reallygreat alignment of all the
interests.
You still get to put all yourepisodes out for free for
everybody.
Eventually, your paidsubscribers actually get a real
benefit the fact that they getthis content early and you are
not doing more work.
Yeah.
You're doing the same work, thesame episodes, you're putting

(08:04):
them out there and then thepremium get them, but then
everybody else three days later,five days later, a week later,
and it just feels so good,especially for smaller
podcasters who want to take astep into premium content
without committing themselves todoing like twice as much work
every week.

Jordan (08:23):
Yeah, and there's some additional benefits to the
subscribers.
Especially if you are a I wantto say, midsize to larger
podcast and you're offering likemerch or you're doing like live
shows, it is very easy toutilize the early access
episodes to kind of give thesubscribers, you know, like a

(08:43):
first pass at like new merchdrops before it sells out or the
first dibs on tickets to likelive shows or things like that.
So there's a lot more that youcould do with early access as
well, which is kind of cool.

Kevin (08:55):
Yeah, yeah, that's a great point.
Yeah, I really do like the ideafor any sort of amateur.
I don't like the word amateurgolfing term.
We can use amateur.

Jordan (09:05):
Sounds so pretentious.

Kevin (09:07):
For non-professional podcasters.
I like the idea of trying tofind ways to make monetization
simple, because it really isjust ancillary income For most
people.
It's not, like I said, notlife-changing income, but it's
something to help support yourhobby, and so in order for stuff
like that to work, it can't adda lot to your workflow.

(09:27):
This hobby is hopefully veryenjoyable and gives more than it
takes from you, but every timewe up how much it's taking like
because now I'm doing bonusepisodes or something like Alban
said then it has to give more,and on the subscription side
that might not be possible,depending on the size of your
audience.
But early access is one ofthese things that fits the bill
perfectly because it really isjust a setting now that you can

(09:51):
set right in your Buzzsproutaccount and your episodes can
drop three days early, and maybethat's more convenient for
people.
Maybe some people are.
That's enough benefit for themto be able to support your show
I'd be interested of the two ofyou.

Alban (10:03):
do you pay for podcasting content?
I know both of you do.
What type of perk is beingoffered from these?

Jordan (10:10):
I usually subscribe to podcasts that offer bonus
episodes, and it's usually apodcast.
I've just binged their entireback catalog and I'm insatiable.
I need more, and so I'm asucker for bonus episodes, but
that's because I listened to waytoo much podcasting like way
too much, so it's probablyunhealthy.

Kevin (10:30):
I'm subscribed to two shows.
Both of them are only availableat like.
The entire show is premium.
They do preview episodessometimes at least on one of
them it's a sharp tech anddithering.
I don't know if dithering doespreview episodes or not, not
that I know of.
I don't know if dithering doespreview episodes or not Not that
I know of.
I don't think they do.
I think you can just like everyonce in a while they throw out
a free episode with like abumper in the beginning, like

(10:51):
this is a free episode, butsharp tech, that's like a bigger
show.
They regularly promote it and Ithink, try to actively really
grow that show.
They do previews so the wholeshow is, you know, an hour,
sometimes an hour and a half,and they do like 12 to 20 minute
free preview drops, likethey'll grab one segment from a
show and they'll drop them outlike every week.
That again feels like a lot ofwork to me because they have to

(11:13):
edit that free preview.

Jordan (11:15):
Yeah, another thing that podcasters can offer that
doesn't actually require moreeffort is the back catalog
access and the subscriber onlypodcast.
So what I love about the backcatalog access is you can opt to
move your episodes into yourback catalog 7, 14, or 30 days
after publish.
And what's so great about thisis now, if you want to archive

(11:39):
older episodes but you don'twant to have to like remember to
go back into your dashboard andcheck the subscriber only box
you know, setting a reminder onyour phone or whatever to do
that after 30 days it'llautomatically do that for you,
and that's another one of thosethings that it doesn't take
extra work on your end.
You can actually just say likehey, make these older episodes

(11:59):
subscriber only so that peoplewho find my podcast with the new
episodes and get hooked theycan go back and listen.
But it's no extra work for you.

Kevin (12:08):
Yeah, it is an interesting benefit.
There's part of this that Idon't like the idea of having
all this great content thatmight go back for years and
years and years and it's lockedaway.
That part of it does not sitwell with me, but I know at the
same time there have been somereally successful podcasts that
have been able to do this markmaron, yep, this american life,

(12:31):
this american life does it.
I didn't know that.
Yeah s town it works really wellfor a lot of big podcasts.
So I would suggest maybe that'snot a great strategy for
somebody who's just starting outin podcasting, but if you've
been doing it for a few yearsand you have a decent sized show
and you've built a followingand the snowball is like growing
on its own you've got someorganic growth to your podcast.
Word is being spread then itcould absolutely work.

(12:53):
Yeah.

Alban (12:53):
My feeling is that catalog access works for
evergreen shows that are reallybig.
Because if you get into thisAmerican Life in 2025, and
you're like whoa, this is agreat podcast and then you go
listen to the three episodes inthe feed or whatever it is, then
you go I really want to listento the old ones.
And then you go and you pay forall the back catalog, which is

(13:17):
like thousands of episodes.
I know that when they firststopped publishing the back
catalog, I went and bought their.
They had a little app for $3 inlike 2014, which you got access
to all of the episodes and Ithought that was a great deal.
$3 now is not going to get youat all now, but I don't love
this idea for anyone who's notmassive, because you're limiting

(13:40):
your own growth.
All these great episodes youpoured so much effort into
aren't being shared anymore.
They're not getting caught inthe moment, people aren't
finding them, and maybe you dida deep dive into some topic and
later on that topic becomes veryimportant and what are you
going to do?
I guess you could republishthose episodes as new ones and

(14:01):
say, oh, we're going back intothe catalog and pulling this out
, but you've limited your owngrowth, where early access the
only downside will ever be forseven days.
This episode is not live and ifit's breaking news, you could
always just move that one out ofearly access early.
So I just love like you don'thave to limit yourself with

(14:23):
early access.
You don't have to do any extrawork and you're getting a real
benefit.
I looked at all the shows that Ipay for.
Two of them are premium, onlyto.
I pay for ad free versions, andthen another I just support
because I wanted to support them.
None of them are early accessor back catalog.
I think I just, if it's like areally good show, I want to just

(14:46):
, you know, vote with my money alittle bit we're talking a few
dollars a month and give myfavorite podcast a little bit of
money and say, yeah, whatyou're doing is really valuable.

Jordan (14:57):
Perhaps if back catalog access like doesn't work for
your podcast, something thatcould work is the subscriber
only podcast, and I think thathas to be done in a certain way.
I don't think you can justpaywall your entire podcast and
pull one of those.
Like if you build it they willcome, sort of things Like I
think that you have to have oneor two episodes or even like the
trailer open for people tolisten to.

(15:19):
But I was just trying toimagine in my mind what kind of
podcasts that are independentpodcasts would do really well
with subscriber only.
And what keeps coming to mymind for some reason are like
the life coach kind of podcastsor business coach podcasts,
audio dramas or narrative likeaudio fiction podcasts could do

(15:39):
that where they have one or twoepisodes like hook the listener
into the story.
I was thinking of podcasts thatI've listened to where if they
had one or two episodes to hookthe listener into the story.
I was thinking of podcasts thatI've listened to where if they
had one or two episodes, I wouldimmediately go subscribe to
binge the whole thing.
That were audio drama styleones, miniseries If you just
have a miniseries like one-offpodcast, that would work really

(16:00):
well.
Or there's also been people whohave recorded an audio book and
they're trying to sell theaudio book as a podcast.
Well, one way you could do thatis to do one or two chapters
non-paywalled and then paywallthe other chapters.
I think that would work reallywell for an independent
podcaster, probably better thanjust back catalog access.

(16:21):
Yeah.

Kevin (16:21):
I agree, especially if you have something compelling,
when that first episode or two,you can really get people
engaged and hooked in the story.
Yeah, and they definitely wantto hear the end.

Alban (16:30):
I think the premium podcast.
You still have to have a strongmarketing channel around that
premium content Because I thinkpeople imagine I'll lock it up
and then people will really wantaccess to it and then they'll
pay.
But you have to get even morepeople interested in the content
to ever make any of those sales.
And I think of the shows that Ipay for or the ones Kevin just

(16:53):
mentioned, and they're puttingout tons of free content.
So Dithering and Sharp Tech areboth Ben Thompson's and even
his newsletter.
He's giving out a reallywell-researched article every
week for everybody and hundredsof thousands of people read it
and then some people go on tosubscribe to the podcast.

(17:14):
So these aren't going to be.
I just made my own paid podcastand threw it out in the world
and imagined it's gonna getfound on its own and make its
way out there.
There has to be a marketingchannel around it, right.

Kevin (17:27):
Yeah, and the examples that we're citing are people who
have been doing this for a verylong time.
So these people have built anaudience to a place where these
different types of subscriptionmodels become sustainable.
They become really good options.
If you don't have that yet,it's totally fine.
Like, turn on listener support.
Maybe you grow a little bit andthen you turn on the idea of
early access Again, baby steps.

(17:47):
And what I like with all thesedifferent subscription models is
you have steps that you can gothrough and you can switch
between them very easily as yourpodcast matures, as you mature,
as your podcast grows from ahobby into a little bit of a
side hustle into a business.
It's a long journey.
The chances of somebodystarting a podcast this year and
getting to the point where theywill have hundreds of episodes

(18:08):
that they can monetize in a backcatalog or a show that could
launch and be totally premiumfrom the get-go very slim.
But with all these options youhave this growth strategy that
you can execute and mature andchange over time.

Jordan (18:21):
And then one more thing I want to talk about with our
subscription models is thead-free episodes.
It's not just that subscribersget ad-free episodes, and the
way that it works like the waythat you technically give the
ad-free episode to subscribersis that you upload a separate
audio file Right, which meansthat you could have a special

(18:42):
version for paying subscribers.

Alban (18:45):
Yeah, so it could be a version without ads, but you're
implying it could also be alonger version, or director's
cut or something.

Jordan (18:51):
Yeah, like, maybe you can have a little fun with it.
You know, maybe Barnabas couldhave like a secret code put into
his episode that only thepaying subscribers will get.
You know what I mean.

Alban (19:02):
Right.
Or you could get the extendedversion of Buzzcast where we
argue about whether or not Ihave processing on my audio.
Yes, right.

Kevin (19:11):
We have to talk about the Apple podcast integration in a
second.
Yes, that will be a discussionin and of itself, so I don't
want to jump too far ahead.
But all of these podcastssubscription types that you set
up you can set a benefit message, like you're telling the
potential subscriber whatthey're going to get, and the
default options change based onthe type of subscription that

(19:32):
you choose.
But with all of them you canalso write your own custom
message.
So if you chose ad-free, forexample, but what that really
means to you is I'm going toupload an extended cut you could
then choose as a benefitmessage you know, subscribe to
the podcast to get extended cutsor whatever and with the Apple
Podcasts subscriptionintegration that we're going to
talk about next, you'll see thatyou can also do a custom

(19:53):
message on that side as well.
So, yeah, you could definitelymake that work.

Alban (19:56):
Yeah, so in addition to having all these improvements
for Buzzsprout subscriptions, wenow have built this integration
with Apple podcastsubscriptions so you can manage
one subscription in Buzzsproutthat is offered on your
Buzzsprout website to any appyou want to use that has custom
RSS feeds, but also offer aApple podcast subscription that

(20:21):
you can manage in Buzzsprout.
That is pretty much the easiestthing to any easiest way to
subscribe to premium contentthat's out there.

Jordan (20:30):
Yeah, and as someone who has both a Buzzsprout
subscription and also the Applepodcast subscriptions, it used
to be that you had to upload abonus episode in Buzzsprout and
then you'd also have to log intoyour Apple podcast upload bonus
episode process.
It do all that, so you'rebasically doubling up on the
work.
But now oh my gosh, I'm soexcited about this I can't even

(20:52):
express it.
I just upload my episode inBuzzsprout, mark that subscriber
episode and then publish it,and then it shows up in my Apple
podcast subscriptions for myApple podcast subscribers as
well.
So it's just one step and I'mdone, and so this is very
exciting, Saving me like half anhour.

Kevin (21:11):
No, it is.
It is very nice when you get itall set up and it's.
It's working exactly as Jordandescribed.
It's beautiful, like Apple has.
I think you have to give themcredit for the way that they
have implemented I don't knowsubscriber only ad free early
access.
The way they've implementedthat in the Apple Podcast app is
the absolute best way to do it.

(21:31):
It's great.
They've removed all the friction.
You stumble upon a podcast thathas some sort of subscription
offering and it is super simpleto subscribe.
Apple Pay boom.
All the new content that youjust unlocked shows up in your
app.
You can listen all you want andwhen you want to unsubscribe
you can manage it just like anyother subscription that you
manage on your phone, whether itbe app purchases or you know if

(21:55):
you arcade.
Apple arcade, or if you'vesubscribed to the New York Times
or whatever any podcast thatyou subscribe to, they're all
listed in that same.
You know iCloud subscriptionssetting in there and you can
turn them on or off super easy.
And that's wonderful andbeautiful because we have been
doing subscriptions.
I don't want to knock our ownproduct, but we've done
subscriptions for a couple ofyears now and when you do a

(22:17):
subscription through RSS, youhave to give somebody their own
personal feed that they thenhave to load into the app of
their choice.
And there's a lot of goodnessin that.
That people can still listen inwhatever app that they want and
it's open and all that goodstuff.
Not taking away from any ofthat.
But for a lot of people like ifyou think about somebody who's
not super technical or somethingthe idea of them getting a

(22:39):
personalized RSS feed and thenfinding an app to put that in
and they're like I don't evenhave another podcasting app.
All I have is Apple Podcasts.
Why are you making me jumpthrough all these hoops?
That's why we did the ApplePodcast integration, because
there's going to be a section ofyour audience.
Regardless of how big youraudience is, there's going to be
a section of them that areprobably not very technical and
they just use Apple Podcasts ontheir iPhone and they just want

(23:00):
one button to subscribe and thissolves that problem really well
.

Alban (23:05):
And that button experience is so easy.
You just click it and says doyou want to pay the $3 a month
or whatever the price is?
You click it and then it sayssubscribe, just like every other
app that I have on my phone.
I click yes and the conversionrate there is always going to be
so much better than kickingsomebody out.

(23:27):
Get your own RSS feed, pay forit, grab the link, come back, go
into your app, add a custom URL.
Okay, now your credit cardfailed.
You don't really know where yousigned up for this thing months
ago.
It just is a little bit morecumbersome, and if you lose 10%
of the people who are going tosubscribe, that's 10% of the

(23:49):
people that you don't getbecause they got confused during
the flow and they go, I'm out.
So this is just a really niceexperience.
That is in the Apple Podcastsubscriptions.
We see more and more peopleusing it, and so people like
Jordan now can manage it allinside of Buzzsprout.

Jordan (24:05):
Yeah, and it's nice.
Apple Podcasts subscriptionshas its own set of analytics so
you can see those conversionrates for people that click to
subscribe or try your free trial.
So if you do want to set upyour Apple Podcasts
subscriptions, it's a little bitmore complicated than just you
know toggling on Buzzsproutsubscriptions, but it is doable.
You just sign up for the ApplePodcasters program, which is

(24:31):
like $20 a year, and you createsubscription artwork for promo
icon, things like that, and theyhave templates for that.
They actually create a newsection dedicated to the Apple
Podcasts artwork show page allthis different stuff.
So they've curated all thatwhere you can download templates
and stuff like that, and I'lllink to that in the show notes.
And then what do they do afterthey set up their Apple podcast

(24:52):
subscriptions in order to linkit up to Buzzsprout
subscriptions?

Kevin (24:56):
Sure, you'll see it Once you go through this flow.
There's a section in the Applepodcast connect app that is
called keys K E-S and you wouldclick into that section.
You would download a key.
It's going to ask you to nameit.
You can just name it Buzzsproutor whatever my podcast.
Give it whatever name you want,it doesn't matter.
You're going to download thislittle encrypted file and then
you're going to switch over toyour Buzzsprout account.

(25:16):
You're going to upload thatencrypted file to us and that's
just.
It's like an authentication key.
It gives us the key to be ableto push stuff into your Apple
Podcasts subscriptions account,so that way you can upload one
time to Buzzsprout and then wecan push it to Apple on your
behalf.

Jordan (25:31):
If you run into any problems with that, you can
always just reach out to ourawesome support team.

Kevin (25:34):
Yeah, and you know I would say this I might suggest
that you experiment withsubscriptions and kind of get it
locked in a little bit and seeif you get a subscriber or two
before you take all the steps ofdoing the whole Apple Podcasts
subscriptions integration piece.
I just don't want to push peopleinto setting that all up to
find out that you know in amonth or two, well, subscription
content isn't really workingfor my podcast anyway.

(25:56):
But setting it up in Buzzsproutis super easy.
So definitely turn on, listener, support, talk about it,
promote it, maybe experimentwith some subscription stuff,
see if you get a few people thatare interested.
But once you do, once you findout this is something that could
actually work for my podcastand maybe I get a little bit of
pizza money or something on theside from doing this, then that
Apple podcast subscriptionintegration is really nice and
it makes it really easy for youraudience.

(26:18):
So I'm excited about thefeature.
Like I said, it's not somethingthat somebody probably in your
first year of podcasting youdon't want to kind of jump right
into right out of the gate.
But we've got so many customerswho've been podcasting for 2, 3
, 4, 5, 10, 15 years who aretotally ready for this stuff,
and so it was the right time forBuzzsprout to add it, and I'm
excited that we have it.

Jordan (26:48):
Okay, Alban, you have a conspiracy theory for me today.

Kevin (26:49):
I cannot wait for this.
What do we have going on?
It's been a while since we'vehad a good conspiracy theory.

Jordan (26:51):
It's been a minute.

Alban (26:52):
Well, you and Kevin both love a good conspiracy theory.
Yeah, I started doing researchand I came up with my own
opinion, and so that's maybe alittle bit of marketing to get
you guys excited.

Jordan (27:02):
I was hooked.

Alban (27:03):
So yesterday I saw somebody posting online.
I'm so upset.
The ATR 2100 X is now beingdiscontinued.
No way, this is the mic.
We've been recommending thesefor 11 years at least.

Kevin (27:17):
Yeah, it was our number one for a little while.
I feel like it's squarely beenour number one and a half or two
for the past couple of years 1A, 1b with the Samsung Q2U Right.

Alban (27:27):
More on those two mics coming up in just a second.
Okay, part of this conspiracytheory research, okay.
But we've been recommendingthis mic for like 11 years.
As this is such a good mic, youshould probably get it.
And yeah, audio-technicaquietly marked it as
discontinued on their productpage.
You go there, it's got adiscontinued thing on there and

(27:47):
it's just disappointing.
This is a great USB XLR micSounds great, easy setup and now
it's gone.
So Audio-Technica didn't putout like a press release or
anything, but I was like I wantto figure out why this has been
discontinued and there's likeReddit threads on it and there's
people on social media and Ithink Audio Technica said some
stuff, maybe privately, but whatpeople are saying is two

(28:11):
reasons.
One, it's too similar to twoother mics they have and they're
like oh, it's just like thesetwo other mics the 2005 USB and
the 2040 USB so you could justbe using one of those mics and
the 2040.
USB so you could just be usingone of those mics.
Okay, so I've got some thoughtsthere.
It's not really like these mics, but it's similar.
Yeah.

(28:32):
And then they said there'sissues with sourcing chips since
COVID and I was like that'sstrange.
This mic came out during COVID,during 2020, the update.
I was like that's interesting.
And I look at Amazon on all theone-star reviews.
I was like okay, if there's aproblem with the chips, it's
going to show up here, and itdefinitely does.
There's tons of people who saidthe USB board failed on me.

(28:55):
So the USB plug stopped working.
Xlr kept going fine, usb didn't, and it looks like it happened
when they went to USB-C didn't.
And it looks like happened whenthey added the.
They went to USB-C.
So it's like, okay, there mightbe some credibility there.
But Kevin and I, like a weekago, we're talking about this

(29:15):
mic and we were like why isn'tit even more popular than it is?
And Kevin had this theory.
Sometimes things are too good.
So, kevin, I want to tee you uphere.
How is this mic just too good?
I feel like when it gotdiscontinued, I went.
It got killed because it wastoo good.

Jordan (29:33):
Oh no.

Kevin (29:34):
We were doing some analogies, I think, around golf
clubs, right.

Alban (29:38):
You had golf clubs and mine was old land cruisers.

Kevin (29:41):
Yeah, the thing that happened in the golf world, and
does happen regularly, is thatthese manufacturers they're not
subscription products, sothey're not getting continual
revenue.
The way that they get moremoney is by coming out with a
new version of a product or atotally new product, but
typically what you're doing isyou're coming out with the 2023
version, the 2024 version, the2025 version and you have to

(30:03):
make them better.
Sometimes that's really hard todo.
If you don't have abreakthrough in the year, how am
I going to market this thingand convince everyone that it's
better and it's worth spendingmoney on the upgrade?
I think that Audio-Technicaknocked it out of the park with
this microphone 10 years ago 11years ago, whenever it came out.
And what can they do besidesmake it cheaper?

(30:24):
Now it now it's an 11 year oldmicrophone.
How do we sell more?
How do we get people excitedabout it, except make it cheaper
?
And I think that they could bein a position where they're
stuck.
You can't just take thismicrophone and charge more for
it.
They probably don't want tosell it for a lot less.

Alban (30:41):
I mean, this is a mic that got down to like $35 on
Amazon regularly, yeah, andwe're not recommending it
because we're like, oh, we don'tthink you have $45.
We're recommending it becauseif you go out of this price
range, the next mics Ipersonally get excited about are
$400 mics.
Yeah, the $100 to $200 markethas no appeal to me because

(31:02):
they're not really all thatbetter.
Might even be worse.

Jordan (31:05):
Sometimes yeah.

Alban (31:06):
Than the 2100X and they're 10 times as much money
almost.

Kevin (31:12):
It's definitely not worth it Thinking about this a little
bit further.
This did happen before.
Yes, I think four years agothey came out with the X right.

Alban (31:21):
So the ATR 2100 was always like $65 and it would get
discounted and so you'd see itin the 50 range.
And then, as soon as COVIDhappened and everyone was home
and everybody who wanted tostart a podcast or a blog or
something they want to startsomething with a mic they went I
need a mic.
And Audio Technical sold a tonof these mics and they go oh, we

(31:44):
want to reset the price point.
And so they came out with the2100X, which was a $100
microphone.
They discontinued the old oneand they're exactly the same,
minus they swapped out the USBport to make it USB-C and I
think they added like a badstand, and they changed the
color and that was it.

(32:05):
And it was just the same mic,only slightly different.
But they did it to reset theprice point.
Yeah.
I was like this mic has justgotten cheaper and cheaper and
cheaper and I think it's toocheap.
And I went and looked and I waslike, okay, what has
Audio-Technica launched sincethis mic got too cheap?
Yeah.
Since 2020, they've come up withlike five mics for podcasters

(32:28):
and the 2040, which is a hundreddollar mic it's the same as the
2100 with a worse form factor.
It's like the old 2100 and thenthe 2020, which they have like
five different versions of andthat always is at 150 to like
$180 price point and I thinkthis is just like they want to

(32:50):
sell multiple mics for specificuse cases so they don't get
resold as much.
They simplify their supplychain because that board that
tried to do XLR and USB was theproblem.
They get that out of there.
They used to have a lifetimewarranty, so if that board had a
problem that was really hurtingthem with support, I think they

(33:10):
just cut it because it was likefor 35 bucks.
They were probably undercuttingall of their other mics and
they said shoot, we're onlymaking $10 a mic anyway.
Cut it out and we'll probablymake it up with people buying
the 2040 or the 2020.

Kevin (33:27):
Or because, I think, before they came out with the
2100X, they discontinued the2100.
Before the 2100X came out, ohreally.
So there was a couple monthswhen it just looked like the
2100 was not going to beavailable anymore and you're
going to have to, you know, findanother high quality budget
microphone for intro podcasters,which has been fine because
they have good competition inthe Samsung Q2U, right.

(33:51):
So it wasn't the end of theworld, but it was kind of like
oh, we used to have two goodoptions, now we just have one.
And then a few months laterthey dropped the 2100X as a
replacement.
So it is possible that we'reall just speculating about this
stuff.
We have no inside information,but it is possible that the
2100X whatever X2 is going todrop in the next month or two.

Jordan (34:10):
Yeah, man, I really thought we were going to be
going in the direction of likeyou've heard those conspiracy
theories of people invent newtech and then it gets bought up
by like private companies justto like kill it.

Kevin (34:22):
So they can-.

Jordan (34:22):
Planned obsolescence.
Yeah, like I thought it wasgoing to be like some sort of
like innovation suppressionstory, but it kind of is, though
I guess is a $35 mic.

Alban (34:33):
that, okay, had some bad reviews, but we've had zero
break for us ever.
Yeah.
We've used tons of these mics.
We've given away I don't know,50 plus of these mics.
We've never heard of a singlecomplaint.

Jordan (34:46):
Yeah, people love them.

Alban (34:47):
We've dropped them.
We bang them around when wetake them to conferences like
they're rock solid mics.
They're the ones we send toeverybody on the support team
when they sign up and they wantto have a good mic.
We use them all the time, andat $35, and they don't break and
they sound great and they giveyou premium sound.
I think it is a bit of like theLED lights in the early 80s.

(35:11):
They were a little too good.
They didn't break.

Kevin (35:14):
Yeah, and the $35 price point, by the way, is like the
Black Friday deal.

Jordan (35:18):
Yeah.

Kevin (35:19):
Usually Amazon does a Black Friday deal and for some
reason the 2100X is usually inthere and it's usually $35 to
$39.
And we usually buy like ahundred of them.

Alban (35:29):
Yeah.

Kevin (35:29):
And just throughout the year we find places that people
you know.
We give them away to whoeverneeds them.

Alban (35:34):
Which actually now means Kevin, we have about a hundred.

Jordan (35:37):
Discontinued.

Alban (35:37):
I don't know like throwback mics.

Jordan (35:40):
These are collector's items.

Alban (35:41):
This is not like.
These aren't just mics to giveaway anymore.
These are like whoa, you gotsome of the ATR 2100X.
We might have one of thelargest stashes of these in the
world.

Jordan (35:50):
Yeah, we got to hoard them like Beanie Babies.

Alban (35:54):
Exactly.

Jordan (36:05):
Okay, so here is a story that was brought to my
attention from Priv Discussionson Reddit.
A member of our BuzzsproutReddit community, spotify,
announced that they were goingto be displaying plays, and
basically what happened is theysaid that they were creating a
new metric called plays.
They didn't go into what playsmeant as opposed to like streams
or listens, so your guess ismine, but the numbers would

(36:29):
appear on the podcast episodesin the Spotify app.
Spotify said that this wasmeant to improve podcast
discovery for users and providecreators with a more immediate
snapshot of engagement Kind of acool thing.
But what happened was sort ofthe opposite of what I believe
they expected for the podcastingcommunity.
A lot of podcasters were justkind of immediately like no, I

(36:51):
don't want my listens to be seenpublicly.
I don't want people to see thatI spent 20 hours editing an
episode that only got like sevendownloads, which is real and
there's so many responses.
Yeah.

Alban (37:10):
They're amped up, you know, because it's the internet
and that's the way that youengage is you know?
They're no, absolutely no.
Nobody asked for this.
It's like a little bit much,but one that landed with me so
much was this comment as an avidaudio listener, I'd rather not
see those numbers.
I'm fatigued by algorithms anddata telling me what I should

(37:33):
like or engage in.

Jordan (37:34):
Yeah.

Alban (37:35):
And I thought that was a good point.
This algorithm is still goingto recommend stuff to you
whether or not you know theplays or not, but it does feel
like I want to be able to justengage with something and not
have to think about is itpopular, does it have the social
validation, before I decide tolisten.
And it's nice, as a creator, tobe able to put something out in

(37:57):
the world and not have toevaluate it based on play
numbers, especially play numbersthat if you are a little bit
shy about creating something,not having to make it public.
Yeah, and I saw this otherconcern which kind of makes
sense to me Podcasts are notonly on Spotify.
Spotify doesn't advertise that,but they're actually on all

(38:18):
sorts of apps, and these wouldonly ever be the seven listeners
you had on Spotify.
The 200 you had on otherplatforms wouldn't show up.
And so I think podcast creatorsare concerned.
Man, my show might look reallysmall if Spotify hasn't promoted
it at all, but all of my work'sgoing in on the Apple side.
And now it makes me kind oflook like a liar to my

(38:40):
advertisers when they can seethis number is very different
from the number I'm telling them.

Jordan (38:51):
And I think that the sentiment was really similar for
a lot of podcast creators,where they were just like man,
can I just show up and createsomething and not have people
assessing how much engagementI'm getting or how many likes or
views I'm getting on this thing, that I'm just putting my
passion into?

Kevin (39:04):
Right.
I think it's one of the dangersin the podcasting space.
That's been happening over thepast couple of years as larger
companies get interested in whatpodcasting space.
That's been happening over thepast couple of years as larger
companies get interested in whatpodcasting has to offer them,
right.
So Spotify might've been thefirst really big player after
Apple to take an interest inpodcasting.
Google and YouTube haveexpressed an interest, but, like

(39:26):
the motivations of thesecompanies are, they're not
motivated by what makespodcasting special.
They not motivated by whatmakes podcasting special,
they're motivated by what canmake them more money.
Yeah, and I'd like the fact thatpeople are responding to this
play count thing Like it's notjust, uh, hey, youtube does it,
we should do it in podcastingtoo.
It's like, yeah, it doesn'texist in podcasting and that's a

(39:48):
good thing.
Like that seems to be thesentiment of people who really
love podcasting, either on thelistener side or on the consumer
side.
Yeah, and oftentimes I hearwell, let me say, too often I've
been hearing professionals inthe podcasting space, the people
who are making tech forpodcasting.
So whether you're on thehosting side or the app side, or
you might work for one of theselarger companies getting on the

(40:11):
bandwagon of no.
Podcasting has to be more likevideo.
It has to be more like social.
It has to be more like shortform.
It has to be more like this,more like that.
That doesn't feel like the wayto preserve what's special about
podcasting.
That just feels like the way tomove you know one more thing
into this social algorithmgarbage that has sort of

(40:34):
consumed the whole online space.
It kind of consumed onlineblogging and it consumed online
video and it consumed now it'sthe 30 different services we
have to subscribe to just towatch a TV show and all this
other stuff.
Podcasting is different and Idon't feel like there's enough
people who are just like bydefault.
We should say no, because whatwe have is good and there's

(40:55):
gonna be a lot of people whokeep trying to change it.
But we should move slowly andcarefully because otherwise
you're going to blink andpodcasting is just going to be,
you know, tiktok.
It's just going to be YouTube.
It's just going to be likeeverything else, controlled by a
few massive companies.
It's just going to be likeeverything else controlled by a
few massive companies garbage,brain rot, not helping people,
not super fun anymore.

(41:16):
It reminds me I've just sawthis week one of the largest
YouTube channels.
Have either of you ever watchedthe outdoor boys?
Yes, I saw this.
Yes, so the outdoor boys ismostly the main guy from the
outdoor boys who started thisYouTube channel.
He's an outdoor enthusiast.
He goes on these hugeexpeditions outside and brings
very little with them andsurvives for two, three, four or

(41:37):
five days in very remote, veryharsh conditions.
And he's learned how to do it.
Well, he started filminghimself, started uploading them
to YouTube and in a short amountof time a couple, maybe two to
five years or whatever he wentfrom a million or so subscribers
like a successful channel to.
In the past two years.
It's really blown up and he haslike 14 and a half million

(41:58):
subscribers now on his YouTubechannel.
Yeah.
He said in the last week or so,I'm shutting down the channel,
I'm walking away, and it's beenhard for people to wrap their
head around.
But his explanation was justlike I'm a normal guy and I like
to enjoy the outdoors, but thefilming and the editing, and
even beyond that, like going outin public.

(42:23):
Now I can't go out to get icecream with my family without,
you know, being somewhat of acelebrity.
And he's like it's not what Isigned up for, it's not why I do
it, and it's just become toomuch.
And so he's shutting it down.
And it seems laughable to a layperson like me, like, oh, you
stumbled upon this massivesuccess and you're just going to
walk away from it.
But I don't know, because I'venever had his experience, maybe
I would do the same thing.

Alban (42:43):
I am so impressed when people do something like this.
I think of Harper Lee, whowrote To Kill a Mockingbird and
she wrote one book during herlife that was published and for
years everybody was like you'vegot to write more books.
And she's like I wrote the bookthat I needed to write and just
from her life experience wentinto this book and it went out

(43:07):
and it was well received and itdid really well and she never
wrote another book to bepublished.
There was a second book writtenshe said, not very good, not
getting published, and it wasonly after she passed that it
got published.
And I love somebody who'swilling to say I know fame and
notoriety are hard to achieve,but now that I've achieved it, I

(43:30):
know that I don't want it andI'm going to let it go.
And I know there's millions ofpeople who are also trying to
get this thing and they're allblown away by the fact that I
would give it up.
I think that there was aoffensive lineman one year in
the NFL who said I love doingmath, he was like a math PhD and
he goes.
I'm afraid I'm going to get aconcussion that will damage my

(43:52):
ability to do high level math,so I'm walking away from the NFL
millions of dollars a year andI think it's so impressive to
find out I've got something andI'm letting it go because it's
not the thing that I want.
Well, I guess, kevin, now youhave to connect to this story to
back to podcasting, because nowI'm trying to land the plane
and I have no idea where it goes.
Yeah, but I do love the storyit made me very happy.

Kevin (44:15):
I can definitely bring it back.
I mean, the reason I brought itup was just that everything
kind of becomes this other stuff.
Anyway, podcasting can happen,especially when you start.
Showing numbers is somethingthat is passionate and fun for
you.
And I want to get on themicrophone with a friend and we
want to talk about sports or wewant to talk about the real
estate business or we want totalk about gardening or whatever
, and then all of a sudden itstarts blowing up and your

(44:36):
numbers are public and all thiskind of stuff or the pressure to
do that, or the inverse ofwe're working so hard and
nobody's looking and that'sembarrassing, so maybe I'm going
to quit, whatever.
That that's how I'm trying toconnect.
It is like sometimes you'remassively successful and that's
just as bad as if you're notsuccessful at all.
And I like the fact that peopleare speaking out against it
from all those differentperspectives and they're not

(44:57):
saying podcasting is differentand we need to protect it.
But I kind of see likeunderneath what they're saying
that's the sentiment that Ithink people who are in the
podcasting space professionallyand are building tech for it.
That's what we need to do ishelp people understand and
remember what is special aboutpodcasting and why is it worth
protecting.

(45:17):
Yeah.
And so Spotify rolls out a newfeature, and Apple rolls out a
new feature, and Google rollsout a new feature, and YouTube
wants us to put our podcasts inthere and all this other kind of
stuff.
Like I just think, by default,we should slow down, we should
probably say no we should thinkit through.

Jordan (45:36):
We should figure out does this add to or take away
what is special and unique aboutpodcasting?
If you read through all thesecomments on Spotify's social
media posts about this, if youzoom out, you can really see
that that is the sentiment.
It's like I just wanted thisone precious thing and we don't
want this.
And it's both, as you said,it's both the people who are
only getting a few downloads perepisode and and they don't want
people to see that because theydon't want to like stunt their

(45:59):
growth.
And then you have the peoplethat have bigger numbers and
they have a different set ofproblems with it and they're
just like no, don't, don't dothis.
So it's like, across the board,pretty much nobody really wants
this.
So it's like across the board.
Pretty much nobody really wantsthis.
And so Spotify came back andsaid like, okay, you know, we've

(46:20):
, we've heard, we've heard youloud and clear and we've taken
this into consideration, which Iactually think is great,
because historically Spotify hasbeen like this is a great thing
and they roll it out.
And then after they roll it out, they say, hey, look at this
thing we've done.
I mean, you remember like whenthey posted the comments thing
and I had like the poop emojison my episodes and I was like no
, I'm sorry I got to disagreewith this so hard.

Alban (46:43):
This is not a good compromise.
This is a.
This is a version of compromise.
That's the worst type.

Jordan (46:50):
I did not say it was a good compromise.
I said they came back with acompromise.

Alban (46:54):
It's so patronizing to me the like.
We've engaged with thecommunity and we appreciate your
thoughtful feedback, and here'swhat we came up with.
Play counts will be presentedto Spotify users at incremental
milestone markers, once anepisode reaches 50,000 plays.
Yeah.
If it's under 50,000, we don'tshow the plays, and after that

(47:15):
it's 50, 100, blah, blah, blah.
What.
Who cares?
Like now I know, not popularshow because it doesn't have
plays, yeah, and who cares that,like the number is slightly
obfuscated because it's 50,000,plays Like that doesn't solve
the problem for anybody.
Yeah.
All it did was you kind ofchanged the idea in a way that

(47:36):
didn't really matter and thenyou gave us a patronizing like
thanks for the communityfeedback comment.
Either roll it out and force itand be like nope, we're just
going to be like YouTube and youknow, tough is tough which I
think is like what Spotifyreally wants or be like oh, we
appreciate the feedback and theway we're taking it is the
feedback we got, which was wedon't want it.

Jordan (47:57):
Yeah.

Alban (47:57):
So make a decision and it feels like this is those
watered down, you know fakecompromise, and I don't care for
this either way and I probablyprefer give us the real numbers,
the way YouTube does.

Jordan (48:09):
I actually think that there were some suggestions from
the podcasting community thatmade a lot of sense in this
instance.
They were saying give us anoption to toggle this off.
You know, if you want to showoff these milestone markers,
that's really cool, but let usdecide if we want to show that
number off.
I thought that was actually areally good idea because, yeah,

(48:30):
there's probably a few episodes,that number off.
I thought that was actually areally good idea because, yeah,
there's probably a few episodes.
I'd be more than happy to havethat 50 K stamp of approval on,
like that could be really fun.
But then there's other thingswhere I'm just like I don't know
if I'd really want that.

Alban (48:40):
Sure, I think that actually would be a good idea.
I think that they're not doingit because what they want to do
is show, play numbers for bigshows.
Yeah.
And so they kind of came upwith a false compromise.
What I'm trying to get at is,sometimes the compromise is
worse than both of the opposingviewpoints, and that's what it
feels like now.
Spotify didn't get really getthe thing they wanted, and the

(49:00):
people giving feedback didn'tget what they wanted.
We got some weird hybrid.
Yeah.
And whatever, I don't useSpotify.
This show is not on Spotify.
No one's going to see that itdoesn't have many listeners
anyway.

Jordan (49:11):
That's true.
No one's going to see this.

Kevin (49:13):
Well, and maybe here's an opportunity for me to circle
back to my point I was makingbefore about people who are in
the industry, who I think have ashared responsibility to try to
protect what's great aboutpodcasting.
A little bit of a soapbox here.
I'm not going to call anybodyout specifically, but Alban just
made the point.
This show is not on Spotifybecause they continue to make

(49:34):
decisions and do things that wedon't necessarily feel like are
in the best interest of openpodcasting long-term.
Again, I've said this a milliontimes I can't fault them for it
.
They are a for-profit publiccompany.
I'm obviously not an investor,so I can say whatever I want and
they're making the decisionsthat are best for them and their
shareholders, not necessarilyin this idea of protecting open

(49:57):
podcasting.
Anyway, the point I'm trying tomake is if you do make a living
in this industry and you do seewhat you're doing and you don't
necessarily think it's the bestthing, then why are you putting
your shows on their platform?
We don't do it and people mightsay oh well, you know it's easy
for you guys to do it.
You're Buzzsprout and itdoesn't matter if you don't have
a few listeners.
It's not easy.
We get feedback all the timefrom people who say I want to

(50:18):
listen to your show but it's noton Spotify.
Or I heard you have a podcast.
I can't find it on Spotify.
We would reach more people, wewould sell more people who show
up at conferences and meet usand say, yeah, I've heard your
show because I listen on Spotify.
It's not easy, it stinks, butit's a small price to pay to
protect something that we love.
And so I call out and challengeeverybody in the podcasting

(50:41):
space whether you're building anapp that serves a really cool,
unique niche audience, or you'rein the hosting space, or you're
doing like podcast, guestmatching services or whatever
your deal is in this space.
I'm hoping that you're doing itand you got into it because you
love podcasting and you thinkit's one of the last sort of
free and fun and interestingspaces on the internet that's

(51:03):
not completely controlled by oneof these mega tech giants and
like let's protect it.
And if you really care and youwant to protect it, then don't
act like you do and thencontinue to publish your stuff
on Spotify because it doesn'tmake sense.

Alban (51:14):
Yeah, that's the oh, thank you.
We love engaging with thepodcasting community.
It's so valuable, and then dowhatever you want it anyway,
like there's nothing wrong withbeing honest and saying I don't
give a rip about open podcasting.
What I really care about iscool video podcasts and that's
what I want to support.
And I feel like you know,riverside, that'd probably be

(51:37):
something they would say wereally love cool video podcasts
and so we're all in on it.
They don't give us this likefake.
We're really proud of the openpodcasting ecosystem talk.
So I never feel anythingstrange.
It's when you get the oh, I'mall in on the open podcasting
ecosystem stuff, and then thenext thing is like but oh, I'm
all about pushing people toyoutube, I'm all about spotify,
like well then, you're notreally for it.

(51:59):
You're just kind of happy thatthere's a talking point that
kind of makes sense, but that'sall it is.
If you have no, there's nothingbehind it.
There's no skin in the game.
And this is, we're talking,very small skin in the game.
We're talking Buzzsproutdoesn't reach, I don't know, 400
extra people an episode andwe're just okay with it because
it's not that big of acompromise and yet it's like one

(52:22):
of the only shows that are evenwilling to take like a little
hit like that.
It's not a good sign.

Kevin (52:30):
All rightant's over Gosh.
Every time you bring up Spotify, we get all fired up.

Jordan (52:35):
It was really funny because Priv Discussions said
looking forward to Buzzcast'sview and analysis on this.
So there you go.
That's our view.

Alban (52:45):
View and analysis, whatever.
Whatever.
This is dumb.
I just can't get away from this.
If people were not online in thenineties and I was very young
online but the beginning of theinternet was not social media,
where you uploaded and the goalwas to get in front of millions

(53:05):
of people the default was I'mpublishing for myself and I send
this URL to like five people.
And then when, like AltaVistaand the very early search
engines came out, maybe youwould get random people would
link to it or a blog role.
You'd show up and maybe you'dfind a few readers on your blog,
but it wasn't the default.

(53:27):
The default was you werewriting mostly for yourself and
a few people wasn't the default.
The default was you werewriting mostly for yourself and
a few people.
And then we got to some newworld where the number metric,
the views on the tweet, thelikes, the hearts, the retweets,
the favorites, whatever thesuper likes all of those things

(53:47):
became the point.
And maybe take it back toKevin's Outdoor Boys.
The plays weren't the point.
And maybe take it back toKevin's outdoor boys, like the
plays weren't the point.
The being in the outdoors andsharing that with friends was
the point.
And so he had the courage tosay, okay, I won the view game,
but that wasn't the game Iwanted.
I wanted the fun outdoor game.
So I am stepping back from theYouTube channel because all it
gets me is the thing I didn'twant anyway, you notice he

(54:08):
didn't say I'm not goingoutdoors anymore, right.
He said I want to protect thething I want, which is to have a
family that can go get icecream without being accosted by
people who are fans Right, andnot that the fans were doing
anything wrong, but like he justwanted to be able to go and be
anonymous, I get it.

Kevin (54:24):
Right and go spend a couple nights outdoors without
the pressure of I have to filmand I have to narrate and I have
to share my inner thoughts, andI had.
He was like it was starting torob the joy of the thing he
really loved the most, which wasjust like he's going to go dig
a snow cave and survive and likejust to be able to do that
without the pressure of oh, Iforgot to record cooking that
rice.
Dang it, that was robbing thefun of it.

Jordan (54:47):
It's funny that trying to survive in the elements that
are actively trying to kill youis less stressful than having a
YouTube channel.
All right, let's get into soundoff.
First up, we have a messagefrom Warren, from J to HR.

(55:09):
I would love for Kevin to do adeep dive into the chat GPT
prompts he uses that he spokeabout.
So this is referencing anepisode we did a while ago where
you trained it to go throughour transcripts.

Kevin (55:22):
Yeah, yeah, I remember, so I can't do a deep dive.
I can tell you how I taught itto do it.
It was right after theyannounced that they were
building memory into chatGPT.
It came to pro accounts.
First I have a pro account, Iwas testing that out.
I was really interested if Icould teach it overall so that
anybody could then, you know,pull a transcript without having
to get like the URL just to thetranscript.

(55:43):
Turns out that didn't work, butit did remember it for me and
so now I can open up my ChatGPTinstance and I can say hey, can
you pull the transcript from thelatest buzzcast episode?
And it knows how to do that.
Um, but that wasn't a one clean,beautifully engineered prompt.
It was a conversation back andforth I was having with chat GPT
of saying hey, here's the RSSfeed for my podcast, do you see?

(56:03):
Yes, I see that, I can read it,I can parse it.
Do you see the line where itreferences the transcript?
Yes, and then I tried to get itto like to read the SVT version
.
It couldn't read that, but itread the text version, fine,
like.
We went back and forth for awhile and then I said do you see
the pattern of like URLs, ofhow to find, like, what the next
one would be.
Yes, I see the pattern.

(56:24):
It's like this, just explainingit anyway.
So back and forth a couple oftimes and it had it figured out
and I said it's great.
So now that is how youreference a transcript file for
a buzzcast episode.
If I ever ask you about itagain, can you remember that?
And it said it will.
And then I went back a coupleof days later and I said can you
pull the latest transcript?
Yes, and you had to pull thelatest transcript and then I

(56:45):
could query it and I could askyou questions about it.
So I think that a pro one whichis like really expensive one,
but I think the $20 a month one,whatever that one is, I think
that has memory now that hasmemory now too, so it should be.
as long as you have a paidversion of chat GPT, I think you
can have a conversation with it, show it how to figure out,
like, where the transcripts are,and then you'll be good to go
from there.

Jordan (57:04):
Good to go.
I don't think I would be ableto do it based on that.

Kevin (57:12):
It's conversational, so it'll ask you.
If you say I can't find it, yousay, well, you know where you
can say where are you gettingstuck?
It's right here in the RSS file.

Jordan (57:16):
Yeah, but you have to read the RSS file.

Kevin (57:19):
You can actually ask it.
Here's my RSS file.
Can you help me understandwhere it is Does?
Anything, look like itreferences the transcript in
here and it'll say this lookslike it might reference a
transcript.

Jordan (57:28):
Okay, that's going to be my method of doing it.
Help me read this, yeah.

Kevin (57:33):
Another, kevin, wrote in from when Life Gives you Lemons
and said about the present AIassistant production of
transcripts.
Our experience has been prettybad because both the guests and
myself are unable to speakclearly and the transcripts
require quite a bit of editing.
I'm anxious to try out the newapp that you were speaking of,
let me say this editing.
I'm anxious to try out the newapp that you were speaking of,

(57:53):
let me say this the AItranscription stuff, any sort of
automated transcripts.
They've been getting so muchbetter over the past couple of
years, and so I do think we'reat the point now where if you
speak clearly and none of us doon a regular basis but if you're
pretty good at speaking clearly, they're getting in the high
90s percent of accuracy and theywill probably be getting even

(58:17):
better and better and betterfrom there.
So if you do have some troublespeaking clearly, consistently
and your guests do as well itmight not be the perfect
solution yet, but I think youcan remain optimistic because
they're getting better andthey're getting closer to just
like, probably, when you have aconversation with a human, even
if some of the words aren'tenunciated as clearly as you
would like, people can stillmake them out.
Ai stuff is catching up to that, and so I hope you're going to

(58:41):
see massive improvements and Ihope this becomes a good
solution for you rapidly andI've been thoroughly impressed
just over the past couple ofyears.

Alban (58:47):
The accuracy rates just continue to get better and
better, so I'm super optimisticbecause I'm regularly running
our transcripts throughdifferent models just to see
like, okay, how does this comeout?
And a few times now I've hadsome that were so good that it
caught like a joke or somethingthat Jordan or you said that I
didn't hear.
And so I've read one and wentthey didn't say that.

(59:10):
And then I played the audioagain and went, oh, they did say
that, but it was kind ofgarbled a little bit and I
didn't hear it Right.
And so it's happened twice nowwhere I didn't hear it until I
read it and then I went andre-listened and I went, oh, that
is there.
So we need to get you to trythe beta of our transcripts and
see if that happens for you,because I am very surprised and

(59:34):
it just seems like it getsbetter and better and faster and
faster every week and I thinkwe're going to be just a much
better spot in a few months andin a few years and I think
everybody is going to be really,really benefit from this.
All right, we had a longdiscussion about feed drops last
week where we were kind ofdoing some research into it and
AJ from the Regeneration podcastreached out, said I've had this

(59:56):
experience a few times and I'mgetting these feed drops but
they're not between regularepisodes either.
They're just dropped in asstandalone additions to the feed
.
He had this experience with theInTrust podcast and said it was
pretty frustrating.
The feed drops had no personalrecommendation attached.
So you see, it says it feelslike a letdown when I think

(01:00:17):
there's a new episode from apodcast I actually signed up for
and often there's no clearindication in the title that
it's something else entirely.
It's gotten to the point where Istarted unfollowing these
podcasts.
It just feels like a kind ofdubious way to treat followers.
I'm all in for host sharingrecommendations, but not for
being sold.
I totally agree, aj.

(01:00:38):
Like, if it just comes in, itjust feels like a bait and
switch.
The show I like dropped anepisode.
I'm so excited I keyed it upand it's something totally
different.
Like that's not a goodexperience.
Short term you might make somemoney by doing these feed drops
that way, but you are burningdown the trust that you've built
with your audience.

(01:00:58):
Ironic, that was on the InTrustpodcast.
You're burning it down for 50bucks CPM.
Not worth it.

Jordan (01:01:09):
All right.
Dave Jackson actually wrote inalso about feed drops, saying
Jordan, how long did it take youto get paid on your feed drop?
It depends.
So if I did a feed drop myself,what I would do is, when I
published the feed drop in myfeed, I would write up like an
invoice and you could either dolike net 15 or net 30.

(01:01:29):
So I'd usually get paid withintwo weeks to a month from giving
that invoice to the company.
And then the other feed dropsthat I did were through a
marketing agency and so I gotpaid with whatever you know
whatever timeline they had,which I think was something like
60 days.
So it wasn't too bad, but it'sa lot better if you do it
yourself and you can just shootthem the invoice.

Kevin (01:01:50):
Naomi in Iowa wrote in and said I was loving the show
about preparing podcast guests.
So much great insight into thecomposition process.
I'm assigning this episode tomy students for next fall when I
teach a unit on podcasting in aprofessional writing class.
Thank you, thank you, thank you.

Jordan (01:02:06):
That's so cool.

Kevin (01:02:07):
And I'm going to say thank you because I wasn't even
on that episode.
So that was Priscilla fillingin for me and just bringing
wonderful content in my absence,which is a low bar, let's be
honest.
But she did a great job.
Nonetheless totally killed it.
That episode, yes, it was great.
So if you didn't catch that one, go back.
It's just one or two episodesback.

(01:02:27):
Priscilla talking about how toprepare podcast guests.

Jordan (01:02:31):
Yeah, it was a great one .

Alban (01:02:33):
Somebody reached out from Illinois and wrote for unknown
reasons.
The doubts and bad thoughts hitme hard.
This weekend I startedlistening to your recent episode
and it was exactly how I wasfeeling.
Thank you for the episode.
It was helpful in a moment whendoubting why I was podcasting.
Well, thank you for writing in.
Those are the pieces of fanmail that I find most
inspirational, make me veryhappy that we're doing this show

(01:02:54):
.
So, yeah, I hope you're feelinguplifted and you're excited to
keep podcasting.
Keep up the great work.

Jordan (01:03:00):
Yeah, terry, from the intuitive eating and body
positivity podcast.
I just want to say I love theepisode on preparing for guest
episodes.
I could really relateespecially to the part about
being hesitant to share yourpodcast in spaces where friends
might see it.
That what will they think of me?
Fear was very real for me too,but in the end it turned out to
be an unfounded worry.
Every time I've shared anepisode or celebrated a podcast

(01:03:21):
milestone, people have only beensupportive and cheered me on.
Honestly, I've found that ifanyone does have an issue with
it, they usually don't sayanything not to my face and not
online.

Alban (01:03:34):
So my approach is if I don't know about it, it can't
hurt me.
Priscilla shared with me theother day her aunt found out
that she had the Happy to Helppodcast.
Oh yeah, and wrote her and waslike oh, I'm so proud of you,
the podcast sounds amazing.
And she was, oh, okay, cool.
And then her cousin reached outand was like my mom sent this
to the whole family.
Everyone's listening to it.
No, you sound amazing, it's sogood.
None of them do customersuccess or customer support in

(01:03:57):
any capacity, but they were alllistening and supporting her
Just made me so happy to hearthat story.

Jordan (01:04:03):
Also how lucky that you finally got family members to
listen to your podcast.
I've been trying to get myfamily list of mine forever.
They won't do it.

Alban (01:04:13):
All right, we got a bunch of messages, jordan, about our
post show on that episode.
So, jordan, you and Priscillawere giving me recommendations
on movies and TV shows and Isaid, hey, write in if you want
to listen to this podcast.
Yeah, and we got a bunch.
Kansas City, missouri yes, I'dlisten to the movie review
podcast.
Jacksonville, florida, I'dlisten to a podcast with Jordan

(01:04:34):
and Priscilla talking aboutmovies.
Slash TV, sarah from Wish I'dKnown.
Then podcast reached out.
I love the post entertainmentwrecks.
I've burned too many times byshows that got canceled, just
lost their zing after severalseasons and I felt like I was
just being strung along.
I'm with you, sarah.
I switched to watching Asianshows, like Korean dramas and
Japanese dramas, because theytell a complete story in 10 to

(01:04:56):
16 episodes.
They have a beginning, middleand, most importantly, an end.

Jordan (01:05:02):
Okay, sarah, yes, korean dramas are so good and I love
the romantic ones too.
They're so funny to watchbecause there's always like a
slow motion scene and there'slike suddenly like cherry
blossom petals falling throughand like this music, and it
happens several times in everyepisode.
It is amazing, it is so good,so I love it too.

Alban (01:05:26):
And then David Clark, the late bloomer actor, also
reached out to us.
I'm all in for Priscilla andJordan movie TV podcast as a
listener, but also as an Aussieguest actor as well, if you'll
have me.

Jordan (01:05:39):
Man I don't know if I've said this before on this
podcast, but I will die on thehill that Australians have
perfected reality television.
It is by far the best.
So, David, yes, you would be on, but you got to be on reality
TV.

Alban (01:05:53):
The only one I think I've watched that was Australian was
Love on the Spectrum.

Jordan (01:05:58):
Oh, so, good yes.

Alban (01:05:59):
It is so, so sweet.
It is like one of the mostwholesome.

Jordan (01:06:03):
I would die for Michael.

Alban (01:06:05):
Great shows.
Yes, highly recommended.
I don't watch a lot of TV, butit makes me so happy every time
I think of, or watch, that show.

Jordan (01:06:13):
Oh, yeah, okay.
So that's going to be ourrecommendation for this episode.
Love on Spectrum is justperfection.

Kevin (01:06:19):
All right, two quick observations.
One you guys, as listeners ofthis podcast, just be so
thankful that this is not a liveshow, because that just took us
about 20 minutes and like sixtakes just to read fan mail to
get through all those things.
So anybody who still believeslive podcasting is the next big
thing in podcasting is not.

Alban (01:06:38):
You've got to subscribe to get the director's cut where
I read multiple of those threetimes plus, because I can't read
some of the things people writeLike I try to read verbatim but
it doesn't make sense to mybrain.
So then the the things peoplewrite Like I try to read it
verbatim but it doesn't makesense to my brain.
So then the enunciation's wrong.
So I basically memorize thepoints and say it in my own
voice.

Kevin (01:06:59):
Second observation real quick, it sounds like the
Priscilla and Jordan TV movieHappy Hour needs to happen.
Yeah.
And, if it happens, it feelslike that could be a great
opportunity for us to test afeed drop in the Buzzcast feed,
because it sounds like a lot ofBuzzcast listeners really want
the show to happen.
They want to know about it whenit drops, and so I think you

(01:07:20):
two need to create that podcastand then we'll drop an episode
in this feed.
We'll get you an audience rightoff the bat and you'll be off
and running.

Alban (01:07:27):
We're going to drop it on a Friday instead of doing an
actual episode.

Jordan (01:07:31):
Oh, my gosh Could you imagine.

Kevin (01:07:34):
No intro, no context, no nothing.
The worst possible way.
It's going to be a subscriber,only show.

Jordan (01:07:43):
Oh my gosh.
And our last sound off questionwas do you have any guest prep
tips?
First up, we have Brian fromBrian's Run Pod saying I have a
couple tips for interviewingguests.
One, ask open-ended questionswho, what, why.
It will help the flow of theconversation.
And second, I use a great appfor scheduling interviews.
It is called Calendly.

(01:08:03):
I love Calendly.
This stops the back and forthabout when someone is available
and it has a web interface andthey have a mobile app.
Also, they have a free plan.
It's been a lifesaver.
Yes, I get so excited when Isee a Calendly link in and like
guesting invitation email, Iwill immediately click it and
schedule.
It's amazing.

Kevin (01:08:22):
Sarah wrote in again from wish I'd known then.
She also uses Calendly and sheputs right in the form that
they're going to need headphonesand a microphone and a quiet
place to record which lets themknow up front what equipment
they're going to need.
She also said that they chatfor a few minutes before she
hits record and that seems to goa long way in helping them feel
at ease.

Jordan (01:08:41):
Yeah, I love it.
Alban, do you want me to readthis next one, or do you got it?
Oh, I've got it, Okay.

Alban (01:08:47):
Hopefully we'll see.
Okay, matt Purdy from what it'sLike To Be podcast Nailed it,
nailed it, reached out.
In each episode we talk withone person about what it's like
to do their job Brain surgeons,aircraft carrier commanders,
bartenders.
We talk to brain surgeons.

Jordan (01:09:07):
That was my rewrite.
I'm sorry.
I was trying to rewrite it.
Jordan, I was nailing it.

Kevin (01:09:12):
Alban's.
Like I'm just going to read it.
I'm going to read it straight.
And then Jordan blew it for him.
This time I blew it.

Alban (01:09:18):
I'm sorry it's also.

Jordan (01:09:25):
I wish everybody could see it's written the same thing
as the other twice, but alsosurgeons is misspelled.
This time I was in a hurry.

Alban (01:09:29):
All right, on this podcast, matt talks to brain
surgeons, aircraft carriercommanders, bartenders, about
what it's like to do their job.
Since many of our guests havenever done a podcast interview
before, I let them know that allwill record a 90 minute
interview.
It'll be edited down to 30minutes.
I do this for two reasons One,to ease their nerves.

(01:09:51):
That will edit out all theflubs, mistakes, tangents, but
really lowers the stakes andhelps them relax Love that point
.
And to set expectations.
Many don't realize how muchediting goes into podcast
production, so this helps themunderstand what gets released
won't be the full uncut version.
It's all about transparency,making sure they understand the
process and aren't caught offguard by anything along the way.

(01:10:13):
Matt, two really really goodpoints.
I love that you're kind ofsetting them up early on with
healthy expectations that helpcalm down the setup.
That's why, again, I don't lovedoing everything live, because
it's on the spot, you got oneshot and if it goes wrong you
feel terrible the whole time.

(01:10:33):
And if it's edited, you know Icould say something three times
and then we just pick the bestone and it all works out
perfectly.

Jordan (01:10:40):
So what's your sound off question for our next episode
be.

Kevin (01:10:43):
Can I take the next sound off question?

Jordan (01:10:45):
Please do.

Kevin (01:10:46):
All right, I'm excited to hear about subscription stuff
in podcasting.
Yeah, whether you run asubscription for your podcast
currently you've tried one inthe past or, as maybe a fan of
podcasts, maybe you subscribe toa podcast.
What type of show is it?
Are you happy to pay for it?
Is it like it's something youthink about canceling every
month?
Whatever, just tell me what isgoing on in your world and how

(01:11:08):
it relates to podcasts andsubscribing and whatever.
I want to hear stories from alldifferent sides.

Jordan (01:11:14):
Awesome.
So to send in your responses,tap the Texas show link in the
show notes and we'll read themoff in the next episode.
Until next time, thank you allfor listening and keep
podcasting.

Kevin (01:11:29):
Alban, you mentioned in the very beginning of this
episode that you were in Vegas.
Yes, okay, I know why you werein Vegas.
You just hiked the Grand Canyon, right, I did.

Alban (01:11:38):
I felt bad to even say I was in Vegas because I
personally, vegas is on topworst cities I've ever been to.

Kevin (01:11:45):
No, offense to all of our Vegas listeners.

Alban (01:11:47):
Oh, if anyone's from Vegas, I do apologize.
Offense to all of our Vegaslisteners.
Oh, if anyone's from Vegas, Ido apologize.
But man, I've been there twice,both flying in to go somewhere
else and it does not align withme.

Jordan (01:12:00):
It does not land right.
I love.
Vegas.

Kevin (01:12:01):
That surprises me, that's fine I mean Vegas is one of
those places where it's notgoing to hit for everybody, but
for those it hits for.
They love it.
So I'm sure our Vegas listenersunderstand.

Jordan (01:12:12):
Cool people, fun people, love it.

Alban (01:12:15):
Some people love it.
It's their favorite place to go.
Yeah.
And it lands perfect.
Maybe I just have gone to thewrong places and I've never.
You know, I don't really getinto the gambling and the
drinking and stuff, so maybethat's it.
But uh, yeah, we.
We went into Vegas so we couldgo hike the Grand Canyon.
I have two brothers, and theyounger one just turned 30.

(01:12:36):
And so he said for his birthdayhe was like I really want to
hang out with the two of you.
We all have families.
But I said I want to dosomething with the two of you.
Can we go do something hard?
Oh gosh.
And so we planned apparentlyyou can hike the Grand Canyon,
which is like you hike a miledown into the Grand Canyon and a
mile up out and total it's like20 something miles across Whoa,

(01:12:58):
and then there's two paths.
And so we went.
You know it'd be really good.
Let's hike through it once,sleep, and then let's hike back
the other way.
And so over the course of twodays we did something like 53
miles and 15,000 feet ofelevation loss and gain.

Jordan (01:13:14):
Oh my gosh, I was thinking you did that over the
course of like three or fourdays.
You did it in two days.

Alban (01:13:22):
It was two days.
I mean these are intense dayslike wake up at 345 to drive and
get ready to get on the trailby six, hike until dark, sleep,
wake up again.
I mean the last two hours we'rehiking out.
You know, we're at 51 miles andwe're hiking out totally in the
dark, so headlamps along thecliff faces going, you know,

(01:13:43):
just stay in the zone Right?

Kevin (01:13:46):
Yeah, you can't.
You have to stay locked inright, like some of that's
treacherous.
I'm imagining you could slipoff and that would be bad.

Alban (01:13:53):
I mean, there's miles where, yeah, a fall is that's
your last fall, Right?
So, lots of periods where youneed to stay focused.
I didn't think I took away fromit A lot of gratitude, a lot of
really enjoyed spending timewith my brothers.
But the other was like how coolis it that we have?

Jordan (01:14:13):
the national parks, yeah .

Alban (01:14:13):
Like there's these places that are just totally different
and they're so special andthey're so undeveloped and
they're kept that way on purposeand you're hiking these trails,
which feel natural but liketrails are a lot of work to
maintain.
And this blew my mind.
The National Parks app is likea top 10 app I've ever used.

(01:14:35):
I don't understand how agovernment agency has an app
this good, but it was so good.
And the experience of the GrandCanyon and National Parks for
the last few years where we'vegone to more, I've just been
like so awesome.
And so we're hiking down throughthis valley and you get down to
the bottom and it's all theselush trees and you see the park

(01:14:58):
rangers out there checking in onyou because they airlift out a
person like every three days sothat they don't die down in the
Grand Canyon and as you're doing, I was just like felt like man.
This is a really cool thingthat we have.
You know you've got all thesecool national parks and you live
near one.
I would highly recommend tryingto get out there and enjoy it
to the extent that you'reinterested in doing, whether

(01:15:21):
that be a couple miles or youwant to go do something really
big.
It was just a blast.

Jordan (01:15:26):
It's funny because I'm surrounded by national parks and
I've never been to one, whichis really sad.

Alban (01:15:32):
Jordan, this is your moment.

Jordan (01:15:33):
I know I got to do it.

Alban (01:15:35):
I didn't know you'd never been to one, but I am such a
big fan of the national parksnow.

Kevin (01:15:40):
Yeah, unfortunately the only national park I think it's
the only national park inFlorida is Everglades National
Park.
Yeah.
Isn't that right and that's notideal for the majority of the
year in Florida.

Jordan (01:15:54):
You don't want to go like hiking through the swamps.

Kevin (01:16:02):
I mean it is beautiful and you can boat through it, you
can kayak through it.
A lot of people do airboatrides and stuff like that and
they have camping platforms andstuff like there's snakes and
alligators and, a few places,crocodiles mosquitoes.

Alban (01:16:09):
Mosquitoes are thequitoes .
The mosquitoes are the thingthat I don't want to deal with.

Jordan (01:16:12):
I forget about the crocodiles.

Kevin (01:16:14):
But really there's only like four months of which you
can actually go into it and staythere for any amount of time.
Yeah.
If you're not traveling, youknow 30 miles an hour on an
airboat, yeah, yeah.
So the national park in Floridanot the greatest, but out west
Not the greatest.

Alban (01:16:31):
Everglades is not a top park for me but like Great Smoky
Mountains up in North Georgia,Tennessee I think, maybe mostly
North Carolina, that areaBeautiful national park.
And then there's just so, somany out west, Lots in Utah,
lots in that area, lots up nearJordan, and they're just.
I just like now, whenever Itravel and I'm traveling for

(01:16:52):
work I'll look around and belike, hey, is there a national
park nearby?
Yeah, so when I went to podcastmovement evolutions I knew I
had to fly back on Friday.
So I did my flight later onFriday and took four hours of
PTO and went to Indiana dunesand hiked to the dunes out there
because there was a nationalpark nearby.
I get so much joy from theseplaces that are just so wild and

(01:17:15):
different from each other.

Jordan (01:17:16):
Yeah.

Alban (01:17:17):
And it's just a blast and it costs like $35 for a whole
year or something.
It's basically free and youknow your tax dollars are paying
for it, so you might as well goenjoy it.

Jordan (01:17:27):
Yeah, and speaking of wild and different, kevin, you
just got back from a trip aswell.

Kevin (01:17:32):
Oh, yes, yes, yes, I went to.
Costa Rica Was not a nationalpark.

Jordan (01:17:36):
Just as beautiful though .

Kevin (01:17:37):
Well, I'm sure Costa Rica is very beautiful.
I stayed in San Jose, which isvery urban, it's a city, and I
was staying with the missionsorganization so we were doing
awesome stuff and I loved it.
Got to go with my daughter butwe did homeless feedings, we
worked with children, we didsome construction projects, we
did some painting projects andso I wasn't really there as a

(01:17:58):
tourist as much as I was toserve and give back to the
community and help the city ofSan Jose.
But I absolutely fell in lovewith that place it is.
I don't know the spirit andenergy in that place and I know
there's a lot of like we wereserving in some really poor
areas and a lot of it was heavyto see people in those
conditions, but the spirit ofthe community is just still like

(01:18:19):
, lively and bright andoptimistic, even though
conditions are less than idealfor a lot of people who live
there.

Jordan (01:18:24):
Don't they have a saying like Pura Vida or something
like?

Kevin (01:18:27):
that that's a Costa.

Jordan (01:18:28):
Rican thing right.

Kevin (01:18:29):
It is yeah.

Jordan (01:18:30):
So you got that Pura Vida vibe.

Kevin (01:18:32):
Yeah.
So I didn't get to go throughall the beautiful lush landscape
, jungle stuff.
I didn't get out to the beachor any of that.
But even though it was a verydifferent kind of Costa Rican
experience, I very much enjoyedthe trip, had a great time with
my daughter and I think therereally is.
A lot of people say there's alot of special stuff going on in
Costa Rica and from what I sawI get it.

(01:18:54):
I would like to go back andexperience all the more
beautiful touristy parts at somepoint.
But even not doing that for myfirst trip, I wasn't optimistic
that we were going to.
I was going to feel that way onthe return.
I thought I would just kind offeel tired and I didn't.
It's a fun place.
I understand why a lot ofpeople have.