Are These Common Podcasting Myths True?

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We're diving deep into common podcasting misconceptions, examining popular beliefs about podcasting success against real data and industry experience!

Myths we're covering:
• You need to launch with three episodes to get into Apple's New & Noteworthy 
• You need expensive equipment to make a good podcast
• There are too many podcasts
• Big-name guests will quickly grow your show
• There is an optimal day, time, and publishing frequency
• The "dreaded seventh episode"

Have questions about podcasting during the holiday season? We want to hear how you handle podcasting when life gets busy!

Contact Buzzcast

• Send us a text message
• Tweet us at @buzzcastpodcast, @albanbrooke, @kfinn, and @JordanPods

Thanks for listening and Keep Podcasting!

Episode Transcript

Kevin (00:00):
Hello?
Hello?

Jordan (00:01):
Can you hear us?

Kevin (00:02):
I can't hear you guys anymore.

Alban (00:03):
We can hear you.

Jordan (00:04):
Oh, there's an ear button.

Alban (00:05):
You hit the button.
No, you hit the button.
You hit the button.
I'm gonna call Kevin and tellhim.
I think I know what he did.

Kevin (00:14):
What's up?

Alban (00:15):
Um, I think you hit the button to only hear your
channel.

Kevin (00:19):
The solo button?

Alban (00:20):
There's yeah, the solo button.

Jordan (00:22):
It's a green ear.

Kevin (00:23):
No.
Hello?
Hello?
The green ear.

Jordan (00:25):
Yeah.

Alban (00:26):
Can you hear us now?

Kevin (00:27):
Yeah.
You could hear me the wholetime?
Yeah.
Thank you.
That was it.

Alban (00:29):
Alright, I'm hanging up the phone call.
Alright, so Jordan, you were inthe middle.

Kevin (00:33):
Hang on.
I can't hear you guys again.

Jordan (00:35):
No.

Kevin (00:36):
No way.
What'd I do?

Jordan (00:37):
It's the cursed episode.

Kevin (00:38):
Now I hear me, but not you.

Alban (00:40):
Was Kevin thinking he could hear us because he could
hear me through the phone?

Kevin (00:43):
Now I can hear you.
Here we go.

Jordan (00:52):
Welcome back to Buzzcast, podcast about all
things podcasting from thepeople at Buzzsprout.
Today we are going to betalking about podcasting myths.
Specifically, we're going to bebusting podcasting myths.
So we're going to go over someof the internet's most prolific
podcasting myths, urban legends,and we're going to decide if it

(01:13):
is busted, plausible,confirmed.
Where are the other ones?
Like confirmed with likenuances.
I think for the sake ofsimplicity, we'll just leave it
at busted, plausible, orconfirmed.

Kevin (01:25):
Yes.
The official categories that amyth can fall into are busted,
plausible, or confirmed.
I did do a little bit ofresearch 30 seconds ago with
ChatGPT, and it said sometimesthe team would also note nuances
such as partly busted or true,but not in the way people think.

Jordan (01:42):
Ooh.

Kevin (01:43):
So we have those options if we get in a jam.

Jordan (01:45):
Okay.

Kevin (01:46):
But for the most part, we are looking to either bust it,
call it plausible, or confirmit.

Jordan (01:51):
Okay.
The first one is you need tolaunch with three episodes to
get into Apple's new andnoteworthy.
So

Kevin (01:58):
Confirmed.

Jordan (02:00):
This is going to be a really short episode.

Alban (02:04):
This one came in from QR Code Art on Twitter.
So what supporting evidence isthere for this, Jordan?

Jordan (02:11):
Uh the first one, it was really funny.
I searched it and I found thepodcast and QA episode in which
we interviewed Chris Emerson,who credited launching with
three episodes to his successand getting featured.
We have that as a short.
It's on like YouTube, it's onthe podcast.
So we may or may not beresponsible for spreading this.
I also found in Apple Podcasts,in their promotional request,

(02:36):
help article, whatever it is,they say, take a look at the
larger picture of what your showhas to offer when reaching
potential new fans.
A narrative series, forexample, might have more success
with a feature timed after afew episodes are published,
allowing listeners to binge andbecome hooked.
And a lot of podcast coachessay that three episodes are more

(02:58):
likely to get you newnoteworthy because there's more
listener retention andfollowers.
You have more momentum becauseyou get more downloads on the
apps.
And it makes you seem likeyou're more serious about the
podcast or you're more polishedbecause you're not just starting
with a trailer or one episode.

Kevin (03:16):
I've always thought it made sense because if Apple,
whether it be an algorithm orwhether it be a human who is
making the selections for newand noteworthy, I would just
assume that the more downloadactivity they see, the more
interest they have, or thebetter your chances of getting
featured.
And so if you just launchedwith one episode, even if you do
a great job of promoting it,maybe you get the word out to a

(03:39):
thousand people.
And maybe a thousand people,you know, click and download
that episode to their app.
Great, you had a thousand.
But if you had three episodesout there, or four, or five, of
that thousand people whodownloaded one, there would be
maybe half of them woulddownload a second episode.
And then maybe 25% of themwould download the third episode
because they liked what theyheard.
So it doesn't necessarily meanthat it's a recipe for success,

(04:00):
but if you're gonna put all thiseffort and energy into
promoting your podcast, I thinkit makes sense to do it after
you have again, maybe three isthe number.
Maybe that's not an exactnumber, but I would say more
than one, and that's gonnatrigger more activity.
So instead of the thousanddownloads that we're talking
about earlier, if it was halfdid a second episode and then
25% did a third, that's 1750.

(04:21):
So it's just more downloadactivity.
So I just I think it makessense.

Jordan (04:24):
Yeah.
The earliest instance I foundof this like three episode idea
at launch was from about 11years ago.
Daniel J.
Lewis from The Audacity toPodcast had a tip in his episode
about launching with threeepisodes.
And what I think happened isApple wasn't very, they weren't

(04:48):
very upfront about the way inwhich they did things, like how
their algorithm worked, howtheir selection process worked
for promotions.
And so I think what reallytruly happened was probably a
lot of podcasters did a lot ofresearch to make sure the show
was really good.
And part of that research washaving the three episodes at
launch.
And they happened to have threeepisodes at launch and got into

(05:11):
new and noteworthy.
And they were like, oh, okay,this proves it.
Like that's what you do becausethis is what I did.
But when I looked into ApplePodcasts' four tips for getting
featured on Apple Podcasts, thefirst tip is to use promotional
request form and just make sureyou have all the information
about your podcast, like why itwould be important for people.
You have to actually go througha lot of stuff.

(05:31):
Number two is submit mycatching art.
And I actually think that thisis probably more important than
having multiple episodes in yourpodcast is the artwork.
And you're gonna have likeseveral different kinds of
artwork.
I think that they put a lot offocus on the aesthetic, like the
how appealing it is to people.
And then they also say tooptimize your feed and audience

(05:52):
title.
So they basically want to makesure that your episodes are
titled properly.
And then number four is timingis key.
And the only tip that I foundin here was the one that I
talked about before about themsaying, take a look at the
larger picture of your show andyou know, maybe have a few
episodes to like so that peoplecan really get an idea for it.
But it was more of asuggestion.

(06:14):
And the actual tip that theyhave in timing the like
promotion request is saying ifyou request a Monday as the
featured date, your request willfall naturally within our
planning, which increases yourchances of getting picked up.
That was the only like, hey,here's a little tip.

(06:35):
If you do it on this day, thenit's gonna increase your
chances.
And so I think that this isplausible.

Kevin (06:43):
Yeah, I I think you're right, Jordan.
I think plausible, you know,the way that you presented the
myth, like technically, you needto launch for three episodes to
get into Apple's New andNoteworthy.

Jordan (06:53):
Yeah.

Kevin (06:54):
That we could bust.
That is definitely bustable.
That's not true.
You don't need to.

Jordan (06:59):
I mean, we see people in New and Noteworthy all the time
that just have a trailer.

Kevin (07:03):
But I do think there is some truth to it's not gonna
hurt you to have more than oneepisode.

Jordan (07:09):
Absolutely.

Kevin (07:09):
So if your show is set up in a way where you, you know,
record at least weekly, like youdo still want it to be new.
There are exceptions for sure.
But if your show's been aroundfor six months or more, that's
probably a negative signal tothe Apple team.
So you probably want to submityour show within the first six
months or so of launch and youcan do your own promotion and

(07:31):
stuff around that to sort ofbuild an audience.
But then when do you want tosubmit to Apple to try to get
that new and noteworthy feature?
We know right from Apple'smouth if you choose a date when
you fill out that form, likechoose a Monday for the feature
to go live if selected.
And then I do think it willhelp if you have a few episodes.
But if you don't want to, likeif you want to just submit with
a trailer, again, they don'thave any official guidance

(07:52):
around that, but I do think itcould help if you have the type
of show that would play intothis strategy.

Jordan (07:59):
Our next myth was submitted from a listener in
Steamboat Springs, Colorado.
You need expensive equipment tomake a good podcast.
All right, so this myth is thatyour podcast is only as good as
your audio quality.
And if you want to be takenseriously, you need to sound
professional.
And the only way to soundprofessional is to buy fancy

(08:20):
gear.

Alban (08:21):
That makes sense.
I'll try to give the positiveargument for this.
High-end gear is the best wayto get studio quality sound.
Really, when you spend themoney, it's actually signaling
to yourself, I'm committed, I'mgonna do a really good job.
And you know, you didn't justsay I'm gonna start a podcast.
You spent $2,000 on equipment.
So now you're really committed.

(08:42):
Yeah.
And you know your spouse knowsyou're committed.
And everyone in your life who'sseen this stuff getting
delivered by Amazon knows you'recommitted.

Jordan (08:50):
Your neighbors know.

Alban (08:51):
And now it's important that it sounds great.
And so you're gonna put alittle bit more effort and
polished production does help,especially in competitive areas.
So I think it just you getbetter audio, you're going to be
more invested, and it's gonnalead to a good podcast.

Kevin (09:09):
Yeah.
Let me add on to this becauseit can be fun for a lot of
people.
A lot of people are into fancytech.
And whether that be uh aroadcaster for your desk or a
fancy microphone or niceheadphones that are super
comfortable, and you're all intoall the gadgets and gizmos are
in there to make themcomfortable and sound great and
all that stuff, you're into allthat stuff.

(09:30):
It could make podcasting moreenjoyable.
And if it's more enjoyable,there's a better chance you're
gonna stick with it.
And we know that you have tostick with it for a pretty long
time to have a decent chance ofbeing successful.
Nobody really in podcasting,unless you're a celebrity or
something, you're not gonna bean overnight success.
It's going to take some time.
So the more things that you cando to enjoy the process, enjoy

(09:53):
the journey, the better chanceyou have at being successful.
I think those are all greatreasons to buy expensive gear.
Again, if you have the budgetand the means to do it, you
shouldn't be going into debtover your hobby, regardless of
your hobby, whether it bepodcasting or some sport or some
exercise stuff, whatever it is,you should not be going into
debt for a hobby.
But if you have the means andyou enjoy it, remember 99% of

(10:17):
podcasters are doing it for thelove of the game.
So if you get enjoyment out ofit, absolutely.

Jordan (10:22):
I'm gonna say a third point here, which is I think
that video podcasting is furtherperpetuating this because
you're on video.
And so people can see whatequipment you have.
They can see if your videoquality is super good, they can
see if you have the really fancyoverpriced pipe mic that Alban

(10:45):
and Kevin have.

Alban (10:46):
Pipe mic.

Jordan (10:47):
It just looks like a pipe to me.

Alban (10:48):
You have the Sure SM7B, which is like the mic everyone
on YouTube does use.
Yeah.

Jordan (10:54):
Yes.
I've got the Joe Roganstandard.
I'm guilty of this.
I've got the white Rodcasterduo and I have my buttons
programmed to be pink andpurple.
I like the aesthetic.
But yeah, so I think that videois maybe making this a little
bit more ingrained in peoplestarting.
Like they feel like they needthe expensive cameras and the
super nice microphones becauseit's gonna show on camera.

Alban (11:14):
We've done a great job giving it the best argument.

Jordan (11:17):
Sure, yeah, we tried.

Alban (11:18):
But the audio quality is nearly identical.
It's really not a bigdifference between a $100 mic
and a $600 mic.
We can do audio tests for you.
We probably should do them atsome point where we record with
both.
Yeah.
And it's gonna be very similar.
You're going to probably getbetter improvements by learning
how to use your $60 Samsung Q2Uthan you would for buying the

(11:42):
$1,000 setup if you're not goingto spend the time to really
learn how to use it.
Yeah.

Kevin (11:47):
More expensive equipment can oftentimes sound worse if
you don't use it correctly.
Right.
And oftentimes the moreexpensive equipment requires
more training.
You've got to read the manuals,you've got to practice more,
you've got to figure out howit's more complicated to set up
with your mixing board andeverything.
And you might have to soundtreat your room because the
microphones, as they get moreexpensive, might be more
sensitive.

Jordan (12:06):
There's more room for technical issues.

Kevin (12:08):
Yeah, you can run into more technical issues.
The more gear you add, the morepoints of failure.

Jordan (12:12):
We had an issue literally just during this
recording.

Alban (12:15):
We did.

Jordan (12:16):
And so we had to stop.

Alban (12:17):
And you can clean up audio without the equipment.
Magic mastering can do it foryou.
Numerous like tools you can useto try to improve your audio.
You could learn to masteraudio.
All that can improve the audioquality.
Recording in a good environmentis going to improve your audio.
The equipment, again, is not asimportant.
We've talked about all thisplenty of times.

(12:38):
So people know our opinionshere.
And I listen to podcasts, andlater on we'll find out, oh,
it's a really good show and itwas recorded with a blue Yeti,
which I think sounds terrible.
But podcasts I've listened tothat I'm like, oh, this is good.
Later on, we'll find out isrecorded with a mic that I don't
like at all.
So I'd put this in the fullbusted category.

(12:59):
I may even see it's evendirectionally incorrect.
Like it's the opposite of truethat if you're spending a bunch
of money on the equipment,you're getting all the fun out
of the equipment buying.
You're not getting the fun outof actually doing the thing,
which is recording a podcast andreleasing it.

Jordan (13:14):
Busted.
That's mine busted.
I need I need you guys tocontribute a busted too.
There we go.
That's better.

Kevin (13:22):
I will say one of the biggest things that I've I've
noticed a difference in audioquality for our podcast
specifically.
And it so it must be true forothers, but I'm just more kind
of tuned in to how we sound.

Jordan (13:32):
Uh-huh.

Kevin (13:33):
I listen to us live as we're recording, and then I can
I listen to us various ways.
So I and I'm just, I don'tknow, more tuned in to how each
one of us sound.
So if I listen through myairpods, I might listen through
my computer speakers.
Oftentimes I would listen backin the car.
And then there's two differentways I'll listen to in the car.
One is like through a Bluetoothconnection, and the other is

(13:54):
like through the built-ininfotainment system.
I have Audible built intothere.
Audible has their podcastplayer in there, and so I can
listen straight through that.
And then I know there's anotherway too, which is car play.
Anyway, I notice more of adifference between listening in
those different environmentsthan I do like what type of
microphone we're using.

Jordan (14:14):
Yes.

Kevin (14:15):
So when we travel, we don't have this, we don't take
this big home setups that weeach have.
We don't take them on the roadwith us.
Oftentimes we'll grab a Q2U ora 2100X or something.
If we're in a hotel roomtogether or whatever, we might
use like a portable recorder.
We've done all sorts ofdifferent things.
We usually sound pretty muchthe same, regardless of the
microphones that we're using.

(14:35):
We get it pretty close.
But I do notice a bigdifference.
Like when I put those AirPodsin, especially like the pros
with the noise canceling, I'mlike, oh my gosh, we sound
really good right now.
If I listen through the Audiblebuilt-in app, it sounds
significantly better and clearerand sharper and more rich than
it does when I'm just listeningthrough pocket casts on a
Bluetooth stream in the car.
And I've heard people who arereally into music say the same

(14:56):
thing.
Like they don't like to listento their music through the
Bluetooth connection.
They want it, you know, bakedinto the infotainment system.
And I think CarPlay and AndroidAuto does the same thing
because it has like morebandwidth to go over the Wi-Fi
connection instead of theBluetooth, whatever.
But I think the environmentscan actually create more audio
issues and you can have a biggerdifference in how people are
listening than your microphone.

(15:17):
And so it's funny that we workso hard to create this great
audio up front, just for themajority of people who listen,
they're gonna be listening innoisy environments and cars over
a Bluetooth connection.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
It's true.
Yeah.
So the goal should never be tolike I want to recreate that
Howard Stern amazing, rich, deepradio recording, and I have to
upload this huge, you know, wavefile, and it really doesn't

(15:39):
matter at the end of the day.
Now, there is a basic levelthat we need to get to.
You know, like we don't wantbad audio, but the difference
between good audio and greatamazing, the best you can have
audio is negligible to most ofyour listening audience.

Jordan (15:52):
Yes.

Alban (15:53):
Something I'd like to know if anybody knows this right
in.
Is the reason that radio voicesare typically like basier and
more rich?
Is that because AM and FM radioare so like low quality bit
rates, Kevin?
I mean, it's not bitrate, butit's like very low quality
transmission signals.

(16:13):
Like they can't send a ton ofinformation.
And so it kind of just sounds,you get a lot of static, you get
a lot of sound loss, verylossy.
Is that why we get that typicalradio voice?

Kevin (16:25):
I think, Alban, it's more like intentional that I think
that they tune the mics and thesound and and they're going
through mixers and soundboardsand all that stuff.
I said, I think they're beingintentional about getting the
sound that way, which oftentimesis deeper and richer.
I think that they think thatit's more appealing on the whole
to more people to listen tothat.

Jordan (16:44):
Like more commanding, maybe.

Alban (16:46):
Maybe.
But is it possible that thatpart of the voice spectrum comes
through through like AM radio,which is really low fidelity?
No, no.

Jordan (16:56):
Don't you ever hear those things where it's like on
NYX 106 and they have like thereally sharp, I hate that stuff.

Alban (17:02):
Right, I see.
All right.
Well, that was a uh impromptubusted myth for everybody out
there.
I I just had this thought allof a sudden I'm like, why is
that the radio voice?
And I was like, I know the AMradio is like really low
bandwidth, and you don't get alot.
And maybe I just invented amyth.

Kevin (17:21):
Yeah, it is it is like bandwidth constrained,
especially the old analogsignals.
Now you have digital FM, so youhave more the opportunity to
push more data through over adigital signal.
But I think even beingbandwidth constrained, you still
had the full range to play likeall the sounds that appear in
music.
So you could absolutely playhigh tones and low tones.
And I don't think that lendeditself to creating this radio

(17:43):
voice that you're talking about.
I think it's more about tryingto figure out like general user
preference.
What do we like listening to?
More people would probably lendthemselves towards more of this
deep, commanding voice,especially like for uh Shock
Jock Morning Radio, they all hadlike big booming voices, and uh
and Howard Stern notoriously.
But I heard this could beanother myth.
I heard Howard Stern used totravel his own little box, and

(18:06):
so if he went to other studiosthat weren't his, he would plug
his XLR cable into one side andout the other before it went to
their mixer because he alwayshad to sound exactly the same
because it was his brand.

Jordan (18:15):
Whoa.

Kevin (18:16):
And that little box made him sound that way.
That could be a rumor, butsomebody told me that at one
point.

Jordan (18:22):
It's another myth to bust another day.

Kevin (18:24):
Let's look into that.

Jordan (18:25):
We're just perpetuating more myths as we go.

Kevin (18:28):
You know who knows this stuff for sure is Adam Curry.
Adam, if you're listening tothis episode, smash that text
button and tell us how dumb weare.
Let us know all the secrets.

Jordan (18:36):
Please let us know.

Alban (18:37):
Years ago, I interviewed Adam for some episode of one of
our podcasts.
And part of my research, Ifound out that he was on Howard
Stern maybe 20 years ago.
And I found a guy on YouTubewho had an archive of every
interview, and he pulled the onefrom Adam Curry and sent and
emailed it to me.

Jordan (18:57):
Wow.

Alban (18:58):
And so maybe Adam would actually know, Kevin, about
whether or not the Howard Sternaudio box.
Yeah, maybe.

Jordan (19:03):
Oh, this is gonna be such a good follow-up.

Alban (19:05):
Until we learn more, I'm gonna go ahead and bust my own
myth.
I just created.

Jordan (19:09):
All right, let's move on to.
Oh, this is one of myfavorites.
I I love seeing this on theinternet.
There are too many podcasts.
And I'm gonna put this in thesame bucket as everyone has a
podcast, and people feel likeit's too late to start a
podcast, or that they'll beperceived to be a podcast bro,
as Tom Raftery put it.

(19:30):
So I think that generalconsensus is people are
experiencing a little bit oflike celebrity podcast fatigue
because it seemed like everycelebrity was starting a podcast
and it was like always the sameinterview format where they're
just talking to their friends.
As far as data goes, on listennotes, you can see that in 2015
there were 57,000 new podcastspublished.

(19:51):
And in 2020, over one millionpodcasts, and that's gone down a
bit still, but I think it'sstill something like 400,000 new
podcasts are being published.

Alban (20:02):
I'll argue that there's too many.
Um, I'll at least give theargument for it.

Jordan (20:05):
I love this.

Alban (20:06):
The argument is that during COVID, everybody in the
world did have at least onefriend who started a podcast for
a short period.
You know, people were justexperimenting and Clubhouse was
really big, and we were all kindof like testing out new stuff.
And the thing that kind ofcaught was a lot of people
started podcasts, and we alltold each other we were starting

(20:28):
podcasts.
And there were a lot of peoplewho just when they talked, they
were like, you know, we'refunny.
We could do a podcast becausethe format of like a chat show
where you just kind of interviewpeople randomly and ask them
about their lives, that seemedaccessible to everybody.
And so a lot of people didstart.
Now, when we look at the data,we see that they all also

(20:48):
stopped.
And most of those shows didn'tstick around, but one, maybe two
episodes.
And so the idea that there'stoo many because we had this one
period where it felt reallysaturated.
I think that that's the myth.
It felt very saturated thenbecause everybody was kind of
trying to start.
And everyone realized eventhough the format may seem

(21:10):
accessible, the format of justget on and riff with the
interesting person you invitedonto your podcast, it takes a
lot of charisma, it takes a lotof work, takes a lot of prep.
And the people who are good atthat type of show, they have a
skill set that most people don'thave.

Kevin (21:26):
Oftentimes, people will combat this argument by citing
how many blogs exist in theworld, how many YouTube channels
exist in the world, how manyInstagram accounts and TikTok
accounts exist in the world.
And those are a lot more ofmost of those things than
podcasts by like orders ofmagnitude.
And so if you compare thenumber of podcasts that exist or

(21:46):
get started every year to thenumber of YouTube channels that
exist or get started every year,it's like, oh no, there's no,
there's nowhere near as manypodcasts.
But I would say the amount oftime and attention that a new
podcast in my life consumes isway greater than a YouTube
channel that launched.
So if somebody launches a newYouTube channel, great.
Even if I like tap the followbutton, I might follow hundreds

(22:09):
of YouTube channels becausethey, you know, most of the
content is very short form.
If it's not interesting to me,I just flick right past it and
go on to the next thing.
YouTube is always going to findsomething interesting for me.
Anytime I load up the app,YouTube is doing the heavy
lifting of showing me thingsthat they think I'm interested
in.
It's not really how many likewho I follow and who I don't.
But podcasting doesn't worklike that.

(22:30):
If Alban comes to me and says,Kevin, I've got this great new
podcast, you have to listen toit, immediately it's running
through my filter of, like, do Ihave enough time in my life for
another podcast?
Podcasts are a big commitment.
It's like somebody saying youshould read this book.
I'm like, how many pages is thebook?
How interesting is the book?
How many other books am Ireading at this moment?
I might put it in my queue andthen get to it in six months,

(22:53):
but I'm probably not going to goout and buy that book and start
reading it that night.
Right.
And podcasts to me fall intothat category.
So even though there are likefewer comparatively to those
other things, those other thingsare so easy to jump into.

Alban (23:04):
I've heard people describe this as podcasting has
the shelf space problem thatmost of us only have three to
seven podcasts we listen to on aregular basis.

Jordan (23:14):
Yeah.

Alban (23:15):
And I'm very open to testing out individual episodes.
But the idea of a podcastmaking it into that rotation
where I might spend an hour withthat podcast every week, that's
a much bigger commitment thanwhen I read a book and I go, oh,
this author might bring outanother book in three years.
So there's another eight hoursof future reading if they bring

(23:36):
that out.
It's just that's such a lowercommitment than a podcast that
may want 52 hours of listeningtime, you know, over the next
year.

Jordan (23:45):
Yeah, I mean, it's hard because that's always like my
argument, too, is the one thatyou were referencing, Kevin.
You know, there's 113 millionactive YouTube channels and
Google has like 156 millionbooks published, estimated.
And I think the reason why thatcomes up so much is because it
almost feels like this is astatement reserved for

(24:08):
podcasting.
There's just something about itwhere it's almost like a stigma
that podcasting has, or thatsomeone who wants to start a
podcast is experiencing wherethey feel like they're going to
get, I don't know what the wordfor it is, razzed for starting a
podcast.
Like people are going to givethem crap or be like, oh my
gosh, this guy's going to starta podcast too.
Everyone has a podcast.

(24:28):
And that's another one of thethings that if I meet somebody
outside the podcasting space andthey're like, oh, you're a
podcast producer, you know.
I mean, like everyone else, Ihave a podcast too.
But in reality, I don'tactually meet that many people
that do have a podcast.
I don't know.
Yeah.
That's that's my thinking aboutit.

Kevin (24:46):
Yeah.
I just think it's very applesand oranges.
If somebody tells me they havea YouTube channel, I should
check it out.
To me, that goes into thebucket of, oh, that would take
me five minutes to check thatout.
Like, I'll go check out yourYouTube channel and whatever.
Oh, you're a friend of mine orI know you, so I'll support you
by, you know, tapping the followbutton or whatever.
It doesn't, it's not gonna hurtmy life in any way.
If you tell me you have apodcast, I'm like, oh man, I

(25:07):
gotta listen to this now.
It's how long your episode isthere?
An hour?
I got to carve out an hour inmy life to listen to you.
And so it's just different.
I don't think that there aretoo many podcasts.
I guess we can go on thedispelling side now to dispel
this one.
I don't think that there aretoo many, but I do think,
especially when you're tellingpeople about it, it's just a
bigger commitment for somebodyto check out your podcast.

(25:27):
That's not just something I'mgonna casually like, you know,
flip over to your Instagram andscroll through a couple of the
funny reels you made.

Alban (25:33):
Yeah, I think it's a good argument for why your podcast
needs to have a why beyond thefact that it exists.
If I told Kevin, oh, I launcheda YouTube channel and I've got
two videos up, and so I have atotal of like 12 minutes of
content, Kevin might go watcheverything I've ever done on
YouTube.

Jordan (25:49):
Yeah.

Alban (25:49):
But if I told Kevin I launched a new podcast and it
was on marketing, so it'srelated to our work, Kevin still
would go, I don't know, man,you've got 12 episodes out there
and they're an hour long.
I might listen to one or two.
I'm not listening to all ofthem.
And it's not because you don'tcare about people.
You just need to make sure thepodcast is for them because the

(26:10):
commitment on the listener side,which is what leads to this
disproportionate uh feeling ofconnection, the commitment is
much higher.
So you've got to have a strongwhy.
It can't be the COVID cast,which is like, hey, we're all
hanging out, just a couplefriends, we drink a beer and we
talk about what happened overthe last week.
There's some really impressivepeople who are able to do that

(26:33):
type of show and they do itwell, but that's a very
difficult format to make work.

Jordan (26:38):
Yeah.
And along with the, you know,really focusing on your why, I
think niching down is extraimportant because yeah, there
are 4.588 million podcastsavailable to listen to right
now, but there's also 584million people worldwide who
have listened to podcasts so farthis year.
And next year is expected tohit 651 million.

(27:00):
So you might not be oneveryone's shelf, but you could
be on a little, like a smallshare of that shelf.
And so making sure that you areniche down and really focused
on that slice of the pie.

Alban (27:14):
Yeah, there's something like 20 YouTube channels for
every podcast.
And that includes like twomillion podcasts that haven't
been updated in multiple yearsthat are hosted on Anchor or on
Spotify for podcasters.
There's all sorts of blogs thathaven't been touched in 10
years, but you can still findthem in Google.
And there's podcasts that areold that I regularly find old

(27:36):
podcasts.
I'm searching for episodes thatare not putting on new
episodes, that I find it.
And I'm like, oh, this is areally cool thing from five
years ago.
So I think there's plenty ofspace.
I mean, we're talking hundredsof thousands of podcasts that
have released any content in thelast three months.
It's not that many.
So there's plenty ofopportunities.
But I think the advice thatmaybe we're kind of talking

(27:59):
ourselves into is you need tohave a strong why for the show.
It's not just a, hey, it'ssomething you can listen to.
So you probably should listento it.
We've got to have a reason foryour listeners to listen.

Jordan (28:09):
Yeah.

Alban (28:10):
And if you can nail that, people are going to find time
in their life if they go, oh, Ireally want a show.
What we were talking about lasttime on the quick cast, a show
about pollen allergies.
Yeah.
If you have a pollen allergyand you hear that, you go,
that's actually going to bevaluable for me.
But if your friend just says,like, hey, you should listen to
my podcast, you're going to go,I might do it because we're
buds, but I'm not going to keeplistening for months.

Jordan (28:33):
It's funny.
This is such like a rollercoaster because I went into this
myth being like, this isstupid.
This is so busted.
And then you guys kind of talkme into like, maybe there are
too many podcasts.
Now I'm like back edgethinking, this is stupid.
There's not too many podcasts.

Alban (28:47):
There's too many podcasts for me, the listener.
As the listener, I don't needanother podcast because I've got
a bunch of shows.

Kevin (28:55):
Can I push back on that a little bit?
I always have room in my lifefor another high quality podcast
that I love.
Alban, you're right on thatnumber.
Like you said, four to seven.
For me, I'm probably towardsthe higher end of that.
At any given time, my queue isfilled with seven podcasts that
I follow and I'm excited whenI'm walking the dog or going for
a drive to queue up the nextone.

(29:16):
But there is a priority.
Like in my mind, they they'rerankings.
Like I, this is my number one,this is my number two.
I can't wait for my numberthree show to come out.
But whoever's at the bottom ofthat list, like you could get
bumped at any moment.
And it's not because you're nota great quality show.
Like you're still in the list.
But if I stumble upon or I heara recommendation for somebody
else and I fall in love quick,like there's room.

(29:37):
I'll either expand how muchtime I have to listen or I'll
bump one of those shows from theregular rotation.
And then there's this extendedcut list, which is really only
shows that I get into when I'mon a long road trip, you know,
or when I'm traveling.
I've got a little bit moretime, or I'm on vacation this
week.
I've got more time in myschedule to listen.
So I might go catch up on somestuff.
But I'm always on the hunt formore high quality podcasts.

(29:59):
What's interesting is like inthe podcasting industry, which
where we operate, there's onlylike two or three shows that I
really listen to on a regularbasis just to kind of catch up
on what and keep in tune withwhat's going on in our industry.
Now it's not because therearen't more shows.
There certainly are more shows,but they just don't resonate
with me for one reason oranother.
And I don't need to express allthose views.

(30:20):
You can go find all the showsabout podcasting and figure out
which ones resonate with you.
But the great thing aboutpodcasting is there's probably,
who knows, 20 shows that talkabout podcasting specifically.
Well, three or four are a goodfit for me.
And those, if you're intopodcasting, three or four
different ones might be a goodfit for you.
But that's one of the specialunique things about podcasting
is that you can kind of findyour flavor, find your hosts,

(30:42):
your personalities around thetopic that you want.
And I think that there's stillplenty of room for more because
I think I have three shows aboutthe podcasting industry now
that I listen to on a regularbasis, but I definitely have
room in my life for four orfive.
But I just haven't found thefourth or fifth show yet.
So I don't think it exists yet.
But I'm waiting for somebody tocreate it.
So you want to start a podcastabout podcasting?
I've got room in my life foryou.

Alban (31:03):
There's a slot in my life for a good, like what's
happening in this week on AIpodcast that's funny and with
like interesting hosts.
And that has never I've neverfound one.
I found really dry ones.
I found ones that go way too indepth on like a philosophical
angle, and I don't need that.
I'm like, if there's a lightone, I'm I've got a slot for it.

(31:26):
I've not found it.
There's a slot for that formaybe for marketing.
All the marketing ones I foundalways feel very salesy, and so
I don't love them.
Yeah, I guess there are.
There are slots available, butthey're particular types of
shows.
And I think maybe that's theadvice.
There's not too many podcasts,there's just too many generic
podcasts.

(31:46):
We need more specific podcasts.
We need people who can say,here's what this show is going
to be.
Here's a distinct format, tone,posts, and it works well, and
now it can fit into your life.
But like Kevin, I've got thelist and it is a ranking.
There's podcasts that when theyrelease, that episode's at the
top of the list and it's thenext thing to get listened to.

(32:08):
And there's others that I seeit come in and I go, nope, and I
archive that episode.
Nope, archive that one.
So I'm ready to bump numberseven off the list.

Jordan (32:18):
All right.
So I think this one is going togo into I'm forgetting what the
uh caveat ones are.

Alban (32:25):
True, but not in the way people think.

Jordan (32:27):
Yeah, that's the one.

Alban (32:28):
I think true, but not in the way people think.

Jordan (32:30):
Yeah.

Alban (32:31):
Man, I did some of these answers we're coming up with are
not what I expect to know.

Jordan (32:35):
I thought it was just gonna be busted all the way
down.

Kevin (32:38):
So there are too many podcasts, true, but not in the
way that people think.

Jordan (32:42):
Love it.
All right, so the next one bigname guests will quickly grow
your show.
One of the quickest ways togrow your podcast is to reel in
the biggest names you can.
After all, they have millionsof fans who are guaranteed to
listen, right?

Alban (32:56):
Not too sure about that.
All right.
Supporting arguments for this.
Having a big guest gives yousocial proof.

Jordan (33:03):
Yeah.

Alban (33:04):
If you can say this famous person has been on my,
and I'm talking A-list celebrityor somebody in your space that
everyone knows, if you get one,that is going to be in every
outreach email from now on.
And so as soon as you start,you land one, it's going to give
you credibility.
People will go, oh, someonefamous has been here.

(33:24):
Or maybe, you know, in thepodcasting space, it might be
someone like Pat Flynn or itcould be Adam Curry.
And you go, people go, oh, youknow, if Buzzcast has had Adam
Curry on the show, then thismust be a real podcast that
actually does, you know, do realresearch and they know people
in this industry.
So it gives you the credibilityand it kind of gets you at
least to the like this show istrying level.

(33:46):
Big name guests, people aremore likely to give it a chance
if they look at your podcast andthey go, Oh, I actually
recognize the guest name.
Maybe they'll click play,they'll give you a shot.
They sometimes have been onother shows, so they have good
stories.

Jordan (34:00):
Yeah.

Alban (34:01):
Maybe they have an audience that will follow them
to your podcast.
I think that's less likely, butthose are the arguments for a
big name guest will help.

Kevin (34:09):
There are some shows that I only listen to if I find the
guest interesting.
Lex Friedman falls into thatcategory.
Joe Rogan falls into thatcategory.
Even how I built this fallsinto that category.
Now, there's some exceptionsbecause how I built this also
will go into my like extendedcut cue for companies who I'm I
I don't really know.
I haven't heard about them thatmuch.

(34:30):
So I might not prioritizelistening to that episode, but
now I'm on a road trip and Ineed something to listen to.
I know it's going to be a goodstory, even though I haven't
heard of this company.
But Lex Friedman and Joe Rogan,like three-hour episodes on the
regular, I'm not listening tosomebody unless I kind of have
at least some cursory knowledgeof who they are or why I might
be interested in it.

Jordan (34:47):
Yeah.

Kevin (34:48):
So I would say that it's a possible growth strategy for
podcasts, is that if you canland a big name guest, then why
not?
But let me go back to see howthis was.
Big name guests will quicklygrow your show.

Jordan (35:01):
Yep.
This is a growth tactic thatpeople use.
It's not about having a guestthat's going to bring value to
their podcast.
It's about getting a big nameguest to share with their
audiences so you can quicklygather as many bodies as you
can.

Alban (35:18):
My hot take is that people aren't using this as a
strategy.
They're using it as an excuse.
They're saying, you know, Iwould be doing well, but if I I
can't really get the big nameguests.
You know, the celebrities canget the big name guests, and
that's what really works in thisspace, but it won't work for
me.
My biggest argument againstthis, I think I've mentioned
this on the show, Dwarkeshpodcast has had Mark Zuckerberg,

(35:41):
has had everybody in, you know,Sam Altman from OpenAI, has had
every famous tech person hasbeen on this podcast.
And if you go look at the mostpopular episodes, the top five
are all a woman who's aprofessor at the Naval College,
Sarah Payne.
And it's like back to back toback, these on YouTube they get

(36:04):
millions of views on the podcastthat gets millions of
downloads.
And it's consistent, she is themost popular guest by like an
order of magnitude.
Why?
Because they're good episodes.
And she had written books andwas a professor for a long time,
but was not very well knownuntil she was on this podcast.
And you know, I mean, it'sfunny to see like five of her

(36:26):
videos are way more watched thanan hour-long sit-down with Mark
Zuckerberg talking aboutspending $10 billion on AI.

Jordan (36:36):
So, as far as dispelling this, one of the first things
that I thought of was ourcelebrity podcast graveyard
episode where we talked aboutall the failed celebrity
podcasts.
And I feel like just thatextensive list of big names who
had big names on their show andfailed miserably is enough to
dispel this.

Alban (36:56):
I I think that's great.
I mean, a lot of thosecelebrity podcasts, they had
themselves on every episode andit did not grow.

Kevin (37:02):
So I think it's possible.
Let me let me talk this out andsee if you guys can follow this
logic.

Jordan (37:07):
Okay.

Kevin (37:07):
I think if you have a big name person, whether it be big
name in your industry or bigname to everybody, like
celebrity, on your podcast, Ithink that there is a high
probability that that does growyour podcast.
Numbers, right?
Now, there's also a costassociated with that.
One to book that guest, two,the level of stress or whatever

(37:29):
that you feel in prepping forthat guest and all that other
kind of stuff.
And then what's the net?
Right?
You pay the cost, um, you gotsome level of bump.
And so this is where I thinkthe formula starts to break
down, is because I think peopleexpect the bump to be massive.
And so even if the cost ismassive, like I'm gonna have
whoever my favorite celebrityperson is on the show.
Like, you know, in our space,it might be somebody like you

(37:51):
mentioned Adam Curry or PatFlynn or somebody like a big
name podcaster, somebody's got agood reputation in the space
and they're gonna come on yourshow, they're gonna do a good
job.
We're gonna prep, we're gonnado some background research,
we're gonna pay a high cost andprep and get ready.
But then the bump is gonnacome, and I don't think the bump
is gonna be what you think itmight be, right?
It's primarily gonna be youraudience first, and then there

(38:11):
might be some people who do likethe super fans of let's just
take Pat Flynn, for example.
They're gonna be Pat Flynn'ssuper fans are gonna find it.
You know, Pat is a great guestbecause he always does a good
job of promoting, but justbecause he promoted something
across his social channelsdoesn't mean that every single
one of those views are actuallygonna turn into a podcast
download.
And so let's say Pat Flynn hasthe potential to influence a

(38:33):
million people.
Out of that million people,maybe 50,000 of them actually
take action, and then how manyof those 50,000 actually listen
to your whole episode, and thenhow many of those people like it
enough to subscribe?
Yeah.
Because they're really not fansof you, they're fans of him, so
they're not, you know,hopefully you shine through
enough in that interviewprocess.
So you might have some level ofgrowth.
I'm not saying that you won'thave growth, but I don't think
it's going to be massive.

Jordan (38:54):
Yeah.

Kevin (38:54):
And it's not really sustainable because as soon as
that one guest is gone andwhatever, you know, big
marketing push and campaign youdid around that one episode, as
soon as that is not new anymore,you have to find the next new.
And so, like, what's your netgain from this strategy?
I don't know that it'ssustainable.
Like, I don't know that you'regoing to be net positive for how
much work and effort goes intoit.

(39:15):
And then you measure thatagainst the results that you
had.
I don't think that it's along-term uh growth strategy for
a podcast.
Let's go ahead and throw thebusted label on it.
Busted.
Okay.
But I will say that like it'salso the dream of a lot of
podcasters.
They have their, you know,dream guest.
They have their moonshot.

Jordan (39:34):
Yeah.

Kevin (39:34):
And I would say, like, do that for the fun of doing that.
Like, if one of the reasonsthat you got into podcasting was
to meet more people in yourindustry or whatever you're
talking about.
And then of that list ofpeople, there's one who's like,
that would be the dream guest.
That would be the most fun.
If that I ever got anopportunity, like that would be
my perfect person to have on mypodcast.
Like, pursue that.
But do it for the joy of thatpursuit and the joy of having

(39:55):
that conversation and makingthat connection.
Don't tie it to a growthstrategy.
And then, regardless of howthat like, and don't measure the
success or failure of that ifyou ever do land it based on how
much you grew your show.
Yeah.
Like look back on that as afond, fun memory and part of
your podcasting journey.
And that is the win and that isthe goal.
And maybe your numbers go upand maybe they don't, but that's
like a byproduct, a sidebenefit.

(40:16):
The cherry on the Sunday, if ithappens.
But the guests themselvesshould be the reward.

Jordan (40:21):
Our next myth
frequency of publishing.
And if you want to squeeze themost downloads out of the week,
there is a certain day, time,and frequency you should be
putting your show out.
And data says that's what allthe successful podcasters do.
It's really funny becausefinding the supporting
information on this, the datavaries depending on who you ask.

(40:44):
And something that wasreferenced a lot in podcasting
blogs and articles is amegaphone statistic, but it was
released back in like 2018.
They said that most of thepodcasters publish episodes on
Tuesday, Wednesday, and Thursdaybetween 2 a.m.
and 5 a.m.
And the podcasts that releasedon Tuesday at 5 a.m.

(41:04):
had the most downloads.
I could pull out a millionstatistics for this.
Generally, it's like midweek,first thing in the morning.

Alban (41:13):
Jordan, when when in our outline it says the data says
that's what all successfulpodcasters do.
Did you rate that or did wasthat in the question?
That's or where did that comefrom?

Jordan (41:23):
That is the myth.
That's the myth.
Like this is what all thesuccessful podcasters do.
If you do this, you'll get likemaximum input of downloads.
And, you know, this is the myththat I see all the time is that
there is an optimal time, day,and frequency of publishing for
podcasts.

Kevin (41:39):
I will tell you this.
We published a show on Friday.
And for a while, I would wakeup and get moving in the morning
and pop up my phone and flipover to the podcast apps and
look at what other shows havepublished Friday morning.
And our show was always likepast the first screen of new
episodes.
I'd have to scroll down and belike, oh yeah, okay.

(42:00):
Our episode did publish.
And that annoyed me enough thatI asked Jordan to please change
our publishing time from Fridayat midnight to Friday at 8 a.m.
Is that when you do it?

Jordan (42:13):
8 a.m.
Yeah.

Kevin (42:14):
That change was a result of just annoyance that wasn't
like trying to game the numbersor get more downloads.
But Jordan, did you notice anydownload changes after you made
that change?
Like did we get more or less orstayed the same?

Jordan (42:27):
I think we got a little bit more.

Kevin (42:29):
Okay.

Jordan (42:30):
But not like a crazy amount.

Kevin (42:32):
Okay.

Jordan (42:32):
But I did notice that we are at the top of the podcast
feed for me on Fridays.
So that's nice.
Yeah.

Kevin (42:39):
Friday is a busy publishing day.
And it might just, you know,like it depends on what shows
you follow.
But for whatever reason, theshows that I happen to follow,
and it sounds like Jordan 2, alot of these shows just happen
to publish on Friday.
And so I would wake up Fridaymorning and there's like 10 new
episodes.
Now, some of these podcasts Ifollow, publish two or three
times a week.

Jordan (42:58):
Yeah.

Kevin (42:59):
But whatever, we weren't on the first screen.
But just that shift from movingfrom midnight until 8 a.m.
made sure that if we're not thetop, we're at least on screen
one.

Alban (43:07):
That seems like a good idea, Kevin, to get more people
to listen to the show early.
But I think that this has gotto be just a total myth,
especially the data that we'reseeing from six years ago
saying, oh, big shows release onTuesday, Wednesday, Thursdays
at this period.
Like at best, we're talkingabout a correlation, not a
causation, right?
We're really just saying, like,hey, it seems like the shows

(43:30):
that do well do release in themiddle of the week.
But what's the strength of theassociation?
Like the shows on Tuesdays dobetter.
No, we're not even sayingthere's really even an
association because there'sthere's tons of small shows that
don't do well that release onthose days.
I mean, I feel like I've seenthis exact same data with email
newsletters a lot.

(43:50):
It was really trendy for awhile.
People were like, you've got tosend them on Thursday mornings.
Well, as soon as like one, youknow, convert kit article went
out about maybe Thursdaymornings are a good time.
A bunch of marketers moved toThursday mornings, clogged up
the Thursday morning emailinbox, and then Monday morning
opened up.
And then somebody else wrote itand they everyone moved over

(44:11):
there.

Jordan (44:11):
Yeah.

Alban (44:12):
I think really you want the consistency for your
listeners that they knowBuzzcast is going to be here on
Fridays, whether it's a quickcast or it's a full episode,
it's going to be here onFridays.
I think Kevin's gamification alittle bit and saying, hey,
let's release a little later sothat we're at the top of people

(44:32):
who get that feed in the orderof episodes.
I think that's smart.

Jordan (44:36):
Yeah.

Alban (44:37):
That's a good play.

Jordan (44:38):
Yeah, that's that's a good one.

Alban (44:39):
In the same way that we send emails right at like nine,
so that people are sitting downat their desk as the email comes
out.
So we'll try to do the samething with email, but I just
don't think there's like manyreasons you would expect a
Tuesday episode to do well and aFriday episode not to do well.

Jordan (44:57):
Yeah.

Alban (44:57):
That's only really going to ever apply to shows you're
subscribed to.
And if you're subscribed to it,then you're going to get the
episode no matter when it comesout.
It could come out Sunday atfour in the afternoon, and you
may not see it until Monday, butit doesn't matter.
It's on my phone anddownloaded.

Jordan (45:12):
If you look at the top shows in any app, they're all
different publishingfrequencies.
You know, some are daily, someare weekly, some are bi-weekly,
some are monthly, some will dropan episode once every like
three months.
It's all over the place.
They're all different days ofthe week.
And then additionally, I thinkthat probably the most important

(45:32):
thing is just what content yourpodcast has.
So I mean, if you're doingcurrent events or you have some
sort of like timely podcast, oryou're doing an episode where
you're covering something thatjust recently happened, then you
might break your publishingschedule anyway.
Right.
I definitely think that this oneis dispelled, though maybe
there's a little bit of weightinto the time of day you publish

(45:54):
as opposed to what day or howoften you drop episodes.

Alban (45:58):
But like Kevin and I said earlier, we have shows that
when an episode comes out, itbumps to the top of the queue
because we're excited to listento it.
The release time hack thatKevin came up with, that's only
really applicable for the secondtier shows anyway, that it's
just like you want to be at thetop of the queue.
And so it's like, oh, I noticedthat that one's there.
But for like your favorite twoshows, you already know when

(46:20):
they're coming out.
And if it's at the top of thequeue or the third down, you're
still going to find it.

Kevin (46:25):
Let me drop one more.
This doesn't like lean into themyth that much, but I think it
could be the same thing of likeadjusting your publishing time.
It could help you get noticedmore.
I think one of the things thatwe want to do as podcasters is
we want to try to figure outways to make our shows stand
out.
And so if you're podcasting andthe stuff that you're covering

(46:48):
isn't timely, like it doesn'thave to, you're not talking
about today's events and it'sgot to go out today, then you do
have some flexibility to figureout which day you want to
publish on.
And you can usually do thiswithout changing your recording
schedule too much.
You just kind of change it forlike one week, adjust to your
new schedule, and now you've gota new publishing day.
And I think there's anopportunity for people to figure
out what are the other showsthat are competing for the same

(47:10):
type of attention, the same typeof audience that your show is.
And then instead of competingwith them by publishing on the
same day and around the sametime, find another day.

Jordan (47:20):
Yeah.

Kevin (47:20):
And so if you're into uh pollen or knitting or real
estate or whatever your sort ofniche genre is for your podcast,
follow a bunch of other showsthat are sort of popular.
Figure out is there any dayswhere uh these shows seem to be
dropping?
They're dropping every Monday,they're dropping every
Wednesday.
Oh, Thursday's available andTuesday's available and Friday's
available.

(47:40):
Pick one of those days.
So then at least people don'twake up on Wednesday morning and
they're like, oh, here's thesix real estate podcasts that I
listen to all on the same day.
I'm never gonna like getthrough these today.
And it just might be a way thatyou stand out a little bit
more.

Jordan (47:54):
So this is busted.

Kevin (47:57):
You got to give us the sound effect.

Jordan (47:58):
Okay, hold on.
This is busted.
That's about getting.
All right.
Our last myth for this episodeis the dreaded seventh episode.
This myth, I see it every nowand then in forums and chats and
in community groups, and itreminds me of like a school yard

(48:21):
curse where they're like, oh,the senior curse or something
like that.
And it's either called thedreaded or the magic seventh
episode.
And it's purported that it isthe determining factor for
whether you rise into stardom orfade into oblivion.
Have you guys heard of thisone?

Kevin (48:38):
Yes.
Seven gets thrown around a lot.

Jordan (48:41):
Yeah.

Kevin (48:41):
You know, seven, this is there's a marriage thing about
you got to make it past thefirst seven years of marriage.
Seven-year itch.

Jordan (48:49):
Yeah.

Kevin (48:49):
Generally, I don't like it.
It just feels pessimistic.

Jordan (48:53):
It does.

Kevin (48:54):
Also arbitrary.
Yeah, it doesn't feel like agoal to try to get past the
seventh.
It just feels like uh you'llprobably won't make it past the
seventh.
Mm-hmm when people talk aboutit.
Now, that said, I I do thinkit's a little bit true that I
don't know if the number'sexactly seven, but there's a
shocking number of podcasts thatlaunch and don't get that far
in before they never publishagain.

(49:15):
But I've seen it, I've seenthem die out at episode three,
episode four, episode five.
I actually think seven's like apretty high number here.
If I were gonna guess, I'd sayit's closer to three or four.

Alban (49:25):
Yeah, we we looked this up once, and no matter what we
do, the most common number ofepisodes people release is zero.
Right.
Even if you sign up for BuzzProwl and you say, I'm gonna
start a podcast, and you put ina title and description, the
most likely you're still gonnalaunch at that point is zero.

Jordan (49:42):
Yeah.

Alban (49:43):
The second most likely number is one, the third most
likely number is two, and it'sjust the every subsequent
episode, the drop off to thenext one is smaller.
So the longer you make it, it'suh what's this called?
The Lindy effect.
The longer something's beenaround, the more likely it will
be around even longer.

(50:03):
So if you've done the podcastfor one month, that's a really
good indicator.
And if you've done it for fourmonths, that's even a better
indicator.

Jordan (50:11):
Yeah.

Alban (50:12):
But there's nothing magical or cursed or anything
special about number seven.
Besides, if you've gotten anumber seven, you've made it
through one, two, three, four,five, and six.
And it's gonna be even betterif you can get to episode 14.
But this myth has been aroundat least 11 years.
It's been around since the verybeginning of when I got into

(50:33):
podcasting.
I was like, oh, all of a suddenI'm hearing about this seventh
episode.
I'm like, oh, this soundsreally important.
We should write an articleabout it.
And then we start like lookingat numbers, and I'm like, this
just sounds like totally madeup.
It's just an arbitrary number.
It's a good goal, but it's justas good as the goal.
I mean, a better goal would beeight, I guess.

Jordan (50:50):
Yeah, it just varies wildly.
I was trying to find data toback this up, but everyone has a
different opinion on it.
I was thinking, I wonder if itvaries based on how much people
are invested in podcasting, butI don't know.

Kevin (51:04):
Those numbers are so skewed because they don't really
take into account the peoplewho at least got to the point of
signing up for a podcasthosting account.

Jordan (51:12):
Yeah.

Kevin (51:12):
Saying that they were gonna release an episode and
still never release an episode.
That number, like Alban said,far and away is zero.

Alban (51:18):
Yeah, I mean, everybody has thought about starting a
YouTube channel and everyone'sthought of starting a blog and a
podcast and everything else,and not done it.
And the most common thing isyou just kind of start and then
you fade off.
So I don't know.
Even the surveys thateveryone's run and you've got a
bunch of data in here, itreminds me of there's an XKCD
comment that's like a surveyresponse and it says, Do you

(51:40):
like answering surveys?
And it says 100% I loveanswering surveys, because
anyone who was to say no wouldnot have answered the survey.
And I feel like the people whoare responding to all of us
saying, Did you make it to theseepisodes?
They're already podcasters.
So it's even skewed moretowards they hit that seventh
episode.

Jordan (52:00):
Yeah.
All right.
Well, I'm gonna say that thismyth has been busted.
The seventh episode or makingit past the seventh episode does
not determine if you areofficially a podcaster or if you
are gonna die off because it'scursed.
It's just an urban legend.

Kevin (52:15):
Right.
And it's hard to find anystatistics that really back up
that number of sevenspecifically.
If anything, I think we allagree it would be lower.
Busted.

Jordan (52:27):
Okay, let's get into some fan mail.
We've got three messages here.
The first is from Sudolna,Alaska.
Hello, have we talked aboutwhat things to look for when
hiring an editor or what taskpeople typically offload first?
Uh, I don't think that we havetalked about this things to look
for when hiring an editor.

Kevin (52:48):
It's never been top of my list when I got into
podcasting.
Part of what I got excitedabout and starting a podcast was
the editing.
Like was the, you know,recording all the junk and then
crafting, you know, cutting itdown to make a compelling
episode or a compelling story orwhatever you're doing on your
show.
So for me, I always find itinteresting when people are new
to podcasting and they want tooffload editing, like even

(53:10):
before they give it a shot,because it's possible that you
might like it.
And if you're podcasting forthe joy of podcasting, why would
you want to offload anythingthat you find fun?
Like it's it's part of thehobby.
But for sure, there's gonna bepeople who that part is more
draining.
It's more like we call it likered zones and green zones.
It might be a more of a redzone for you, so it might be
something you want to offload.
And it's it's something thatyou can definitely offload.

(53:34):
There are definitely people whoare like very good at it, and
it be probably reasonablypriced.
There's just like anything inlife, there's the high-end shops
that are gonna be hundreds andhundreds of dollars, and then
there's some people who you canfind on Fiverr who maybe just
love it and love doing it nightsand weekends, so they'll be
willing to do it for less money,but they might be really
competent and good at it still.

(53:54):
But I don't have a ton ofexperience with how to do it, so
I can't really speak to that.

Alban (53:59):
Yeah, I think uh exactly what Kevin just said, what's the
red and what's green zones foryou?
For me, editing has never hadany appeal.
I don't really like that partof podcasting.
I actually really enjoy thefront end, like planning the
episode and researching andwriting the outline.

Jordan (54:17):
Yeah.

Alban (54:17):
And so when Jordan's not here, I naturally take that
piece and Kevin takes theediting because Kevin doesn't
love the outlining and I don'tlove the editing.
So we both fit into differentspots.
And I think if either of us dida show without each other and
without Jordan, we wouldprobably outsource different
parts of it because I don'treally want to edit it.

(54:39):
And I think Kevin would likesomeone else to pull together
the sources.

Jordan (54:43):
Yeah, I would say editing was the first thing that
I personally offloaded becauseI didn't used to like it.
I like it now.
I've learned to enjoy editing.
But yeah, it wasn't somethingthat I used to enjoy when I was
like newer.
Something to look for whenhiring an editor, I would really
say maybe just go to someoneyou know or a podcaster that you
know and ask if they have any.
Go to group forums that do nothave too much soliciting.

(55:07):
Like the Best Pro CommunityFacebook group is actually a
really good place for you to askif anyone has recommendations.
So this is like a trustedsource.
I think that someone who'srecommended is probably gonna be
your best bet if you're lookingto hire an editor.
All right, next up we've gotMatt from California.
We just launched a listenersurvey with a gift card drawing

(55:27):
as an incentive and a 30-secondpre-roll promoting the link in
the show notes.
And for a show that gets about$700 a month, we only have a
handful of responses.
Is a 1% response rate expectedor good?
It certainly isn't superactionable.
And how can we boost this?

Alban (55:43):
Is 1% response rate expected or good?
I mean, I'm guessing it's gonnabe somewhere in the single
digits.
Um, one reason that it's gonnabe a little harder when it's a
gift card drawing as theincentive is that in our minds,
just imagine for a second,you're the listener and you're
hearing this, you're driving towork, and you're not ever
imagining you're gonna win.

(56:04):
And so you don't get to workand then go, oh, I'm gonna enter
that survey real quick, eventhough I just walked in two
minutes late.
So I think that what you mightwant to do is lean into the fact
that only 1% of people aregoing to respond.
And so I might say on there,hey, we are doing this survey,
just letting you know, last timeonly seven people even applied

(56:27):
for it.
So if you do, uh, there's agood chance you might win if you
actually answer the survey.
And then people hear it andthey go, Oh, wow, so this is
actually doable.
Yeah, I think I'll put in aresponse.

Kevin (56:37):
Right.
I would encourage you to leanmore into the connection that
you have with your audience.
Like they might not bemotivated by winning a gift card
nearly as much as they could bemotivated by helping you out.
So if you let them know howthis is helpful to you and why
you're doing it, there's abetter chance that the 700
people who download and listento you every month would be
they're connected to you, thatthey might be willing to take a

(57:00):
few minutes.
They might not want, I don'tknow what type of gift card, a
$50 Amazon gift card orsomething.
Again, that like Alban said,maybe they just don't think
they're gonna win it.
But if they say, Hey, I listento this show every week, and
this is really helpful.
It would help me continue tocreate great content that you
love and be really meaningful tome as a creator to know that
people are listening and takingaction and helping me create

(57:20):
this show.
Can you just take five minutesfor like your survey?
I'd be more motivated to dothat.
And maybe your audience wouldtoo.
So maybe you can lean in onboth sides.
You can say, Hey, I'm gonna doa gift card and I'm also gonna
make this flea.
The other thing is that thepre-roll tool is great because
it adds it to all your backcatalog episodes.
But talking about it in yourcurrent episodes at length a
little bit more than just the 30seconds and telling people

(57:41):
about why it's important and howyou're gonna use the
information to make your showbetter, you can do that real
time in the in the episodes thatyou're doing now.
And you just using the leaningon the pre-roll for your
previous episodes.
Because oftentimes um we'reused to hearing ads and stuff in
the beginning of episodes, sothey oftentimes just get skipped
over.

Jordan (57:57):
Yeah, I'm gonna piggyback on that too, because
I've done surveys for myaudience.
And I will say 1% response rateis actually great because I my
podcast got millions ofdownloads and I would do
listener surveys and get like200 responses.
And I also tried putting a giftcard up for grabs and it did

(58:19):
not improve the response rate atall.
It just cost me like 25 bucks.
And the other thing is if youdo work it into your episode,
it's really important to justhave a one single call to
action.
If you have multiple calls toaction where you're just like,
hey, leave us a rating roomreview, make sure you tap the
Texas show link in the shownotes and make sure to subscribe
for bonus episodes and alsotell a friend and family member

(58:42):
about the show and also likeanswer my survey.
Those are going to be reallyoverwhelming to people.
So just have one call toaction, even if it's like you
introduce the show and you say,Hey, I just want to take a
minute to like let you guys knowwe have the survey.
It'd be so meaningful.
Everything that Kevin said inthat and album too.
Also make sure that the surveyis short and the people know
it's short and it's not going totake them a lot of time.

(59:04):
Those kind of things are reallygoing to improve your response
rate.
All right.
And our last famous message isfrom Robert Peterson from the
Notorious Bakersfield podcast,saying that every year he does
uh audio driving tour and hewould like to offer a one-time
payment through BuzzRoutesubscriptions for that.

Kevin (59:22):
I love this idea.
One-time payment options forlistener support and
subscription content is on ourroadmap, our internal roadmap
that we don't publish or talkabout publicly.
So I can't no comments.
No, it's it's something that weabsolutely want to get to, and
we will get to it, butunfortunately, you're looking
for it before Halloween, andit's not going to happen before

(59:43):
Halloween this year.
So, whatever solution you'veused in the past, you're gonna
have to do that again.
And hopefully by Halloween of2026, not a promise, but a hope.
Uh we can get that in.
But yeah, a lot of people wantthat, and we think it would be a
great feature.
We agree with you.
So yeah, we'll plus one thatfeature.
Feature request for you.
Thanks for writing in.

Jordan (01:00:01):
All right.
And speaking of Halloween, ournext deep dive episode, because
we are heading into the holidayseason, we've got the Buzz Brout
Summit coming up where we'regoing to be traveling to Tampa.
So we're going to do an episodeabout podcasting in the holiday
season, batching episodes,things that you need to do to
prepare for the holidays, kidsbeing home, all this different

(01:00:25):
stuff.
So if you have any questionsabout podcasting when life gets
a little busy or you'retraveling, or uh if you have any
tips for how you handlepodcasting in the holiday
season, go ahead and tap theTexas show link in the show
notes to send it in.
And as always, thanks forlistening and keep podcasting.
So I have done something forthe first time in my entire

(01:00:52):
life.
And that is I applied to be ona reality competition show.

Kevin (01:00:57):
Oh.
What was the name of the show?
When they opened upapplications a couple weeks ago,
didn't we all say in thecompany chat that you'd be good
for the show?

Jordan (01:01:07):
Yep.
Um, I applied to be on TheTraitors, which is my favorite
reality competition show otherthan Survivor, though I've never
applied to be on Survivorbecause I get nauseous if I get
hungry and hot.
And so I can't never do thatshow.
I know I can never do thatshow.

Alban (01:01:23):
There's no way you could handle Survivor.

Jordan (01:01:25):
I'm like, I've been to Florida.
I don't want to be on a beachin Fiji starving and living with
bugs.
But I would, I'm sure I wouldkill it at that show if they fed
you and put you in a hotel,which is basically what the
traitors is.
So I'm just like reallycrossing my fingers.
I could just get selected tolive in a castle for like four
weeks.

Alban (01:01:45):
Jordan, I love that you're like, I'd be really good
at this show if they changed theentire premise of this show
rather than surviving on adesert island.
Instead, it was a luxury hotel.

Jordan (01:01:55):
That's literally, yeah.
That's exactly it.

Alban (01:01:57):
All right.
So, traitors, you did a at someum company-wide hangout we had.
Uh, we got everybody togetherand you organized a trader's
viewing.
What is traitors?

Jordan (01:02:07):
So, yeah, so Traitors is a reality competition show in
which the cast members go to acastle in Scotland.
It's hosted by Alan Cumming,and they select three traitors
who go and murder people everysingle night.
And the faithful, like theinnocent ones, have to figure
out who the traitors are.
And if they vote out a trader,like more traitors get selected.

(01:02:28):
And at the very end of theshow, if a trader remains, then
the trader wins.
And if the faithful onlyremain, they split the pot.
So it's a very fun game.
It's very like murder mystery,dinner party-esque.
There's a lot of like fashionand dark humor and weird
challenges where they have to gothrough like a haunted house or
something.
It's just, it's right up myalley.

Kevin (01:02:48):
So the people who are playing the game get make
pretend unalived.
Yes.
And then are they are they outof the game?
Is that how you get eliminated?

Jordan (01:02:55):
Yes, they're out of the game.
But it was really funny becauseI actually included some images
of me doing that PowerPointpresentation in my um
application video.

Kevin (01:03:05):
Oh, you have a video.

Jordan (01:03:06):
I had submit a video to them.

Kevin (01:03:08):
Are we gonna share this video with the world?

Jordan (01:03:10):
No, no, absolutely not.

Alban (01:03:12):
How do we how do we support this?
You you don't.

Kevin (01:03:15):
Can we like write letters on your behalf?

Jordan (01:03:17):
You just cross your fingers and hope.

Alban (01:03:18):
Because I think there's like there's not a zero chance
that you get an interview.
Did you say I have a veryfamous podcast?

Jordan (01:03:25):
I did not say that.

Alban (01:03:26):
Yeah, you should have put that because people send me
emails and say I'd like to be onyour very famous podcast.
And then they are like areptile expert.
And I'm like, I'm pretty surethis is a auto-generated email.

Jordan (01:03:37):
Yeah.
No, I didn't I didn't do that.
It kind of sucked because youhave to like send your social
media handles and stuff likethat.
And I don't have a huge socialmedia following.
So I'm like, hopefully I'll belike a personality hire for that
show, but we'll see.

Kevin (01:03:50):
Do the people who get selected, do they typically have
large social media followings?

Jordan (01:03:54):
Well, so this is the first time that they've opened
the show up to the generalpublic because it's actually a
celebrity competition show.
So it started out withcelebrities for the first like
three seasons, and now they'redoing a second version of it
because they've expanded to likeTraitors Ireland and Traitors
UK is doing celebrity now inaddition to regular people, and

(01:04:14):
they have like Australia and uhTraitors Canada is coming up
now.
So it's sort of like expandingbecause it's become such a
popular show.
So this is the first time thatthey're opening up to just
regular people.

Alban (01:04:26):
Jordan, we wish you the best.
It'd be so much fun if you'reon this uh reality show.

Kevin (01:04:30):
It would.
I I'll make this commitmentright now that you might not be
allowed to because you'llprobably be under like NDAs and
stuff.
But if you make it on the show,we will somebody from the
company will make it happen.
We'll launch a companionpodcast.
Yes.
So that and we'll do viewingswhenever the shows come out, and
then we'll recap all theepisodes.
I commit to Priscilla doing thepodcast.

(01:04:51):
And then at at one point,whatever your whenever your NDA
allows you, you can be ourspecial guest on the podcast.

Jordan (01:04:59):
Here's hopin'.