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In this episode, the hosts plan a Podcast Movement pop-up party, embark on a digital treasure hunt, discuss BJ Novak's new podcaster movie, decide that The Jerky Boys were the first podcasters, and give an exciting Buzzsprout Ads update.

PODCAST MOVEMENT 2022
https://2022.podcastmovement.com/
Buzzsprout will be there! Come to our booth to sign up for the pop-up party & play Mic or Mike? for the chance to win a super cool Buzzsprout tshirt!

X MARKS THE SPOT PODCAST
https://www.xmtspodcast.com/
A 9 episode series about Forest Fenn, a man who hid a 12th century bronze chest with $2 million worth of treasure somewhere in the Rocky Mountains in 2010. The twist? X Marks The Spot podcast is hosting their own digital treasure hunt worth $50k.

AMAZON MUSIC STATS
https://podcasters.amazon.com/
Connect to their podcaster dashboard to see their new metrics.

VENGEANCE
https://youtu.be/1GT1jFsNnPw
https://www.focusfeatures.com/vengeance
The "directorial debut" film from BJ Novak about a journalistic podcaster who investigates the death of a girl he was dating. In theaters July 29th. 

PODNEWS SPAMTRAP
https://podnews.net/article/podcast-industry-biggest-spammer
In May, James Cridland updated the RSS Feed for PodNews with trackable email addresses and revealed who the top spammers in the industry were. 
Spam results list:
https://podnews.net/article/spammers

WHO WAS THE FIRST PODCASTER?
https://podnews.net/article/robin-williams-podcast
Article by James Cridland

The Jerky Boys
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Jerky_Boys

Who Let The Dogs Out Documentary
https://www.hulu.com/movie/who-let-the-dogs-out

Contact Buzzcast

• Send us a text message
• Tweet us at @buzzcastpodcast, @albanbrooke, @kfinn, and @JordanPods

Thanks for listening and Keep Podcasting!

Episode Transcript

Kevin (00:00):
Alban Do you know that we're doing the show right now?
Like, Jordans recording this?
not turned on your showvoice. You're just like, Yeah, I
don't know.

Alban (00:15):
I'm also over here eating like Cheetos flaming hot fries,
so probably wouldn't do that ifI knew you're recording.

Jordan (00:22):
Okay, so we're recording the shows right now and you're
shoving Flaming Hot Cheeto friesinto your mouth.

Alban (00:30):
Breakfast of champions.

Jordan (00:31):
Oh, god. Yeah, it's like, what? Seven o'clock in the
morning?

Alban (00:35):
7

Jordan (00:36):
What are you, ten?

Alban (00:40):
All right, can we start?

Kevin (00:48):
You guys wanna play game?

Jordan (00:49):
I'm always down to play games. I love games.

Kevin (00:51):
Alright, Jordan, you go first. How many microphones can
you name?

Jordan (00:55):
Oh, no. Okay,

Kevin (00:57):
What's this one?

Jordan (00:59):
Pod mic?

Kevin (00:59):
Yeah. What's this one?

Jordan (01:01):
Q2U

Kevin (01:03):
Correct. This one.

Jordan (01:06):
MV7...SM7B?

Kevin (01:07):
Yep.

Jordan (01:09):
Q7V5? That's a mic right?

Kevin (01:14):
No. Alban. Do you know?

Alban (01:16):
I know what it looks like in real life. I don't remember
the name of it. It's one ofthose condenser mics.

Kevin (01:21):
It's the RT20. Alright, this one

Jordan (01:24):
ATR something, something maybe?

Alban (01:27):
LPR 40.

Kevin (01:28):
That's right. And then the bottom left.

Jordan (01:32):
It's funny, because I think you have this one. Kevin.
It's a road. Do you know,

Kevin (01:39):
I have the PR40. Oh,

Alban (01:41):
That used to be Travis's mic.

Jordan (01:43):
I don't know what that is. I know. I've seen it before.

Kevin (01:46):
It's called the Procaster. Anything about that?

Alban (01:48):
Yeah, that's a cool shirt.

Jordan (01:50):
Yeah, that's cool! It would be just called Mic or
Mike. Yeah. And we just put up a

Kevin (01:51):
So I want to do a grid of nine different mics. And then
just put like a Buzzsprout logo,like on the back up on your
famous mic or a famousmicrophone, right? It's actually
neck, and just bring like 100 ofthem to Podcast Movement. That
would be really cool. And thenplay a little game at the booth.
Like anybody can get aBuzzsprout shirt, but you want
to make sure you gotta name likefour of the nine mics. And I
thought it'd be fun to have likea little sheet of paper for
anybody who's like, reallydoesn't know mics at all. Then

(02:13):
they could like play thealternate version, where we have
like, Mike Tyson and MichaelJordan and Michael Jackson. They
can just pictures of them. Andthey can just name five of those
Mikes.
it's a combination of the two.
Kevin Right.
It's a game if you want to winthe mic shirt. You can name the

(02:33):
mics on the shirt or the famousMikes.

Alban (02:35):
Yeah, I'm excited about Mic or Mike. I'm actually
writing this down.

Kevin (02:38):
Mic or Mike to win the mic shirt.

Jordan (02:40):
We'll play that Podcast Movement. Speaking of which,
we're going to be a PodcastMovement. All three of us,
right? Yeah. So on Wednesday, atPodcast Movement, Alban, you're
gonna be on a panel with somereally cool people talking about
how to maintain motivation whilepodcasting.
Yeah, who put that paneltogether, Alban?

Alban (02:58):
Fatima from Quill reached out, they're sponsoring like a
whole, I think like a wholestage. And so they were putting
them all together. And yeah, I'mreally excited. I saw everyone
who was on it. And I was like,Oh, this is going to be good. So
I'm actually the moderator. I'mputting together questions. And
I'm sure it's gonna be exciting.
I'm excited to be part of it.

Jordan (03:17):
Really cool. And then on Friday, the Buzzsprout crews all
getting together and we're goingto talk about what indie
podcasters are doing to rivalthe pros. I'm really excited
about this one. This is a funtopic. So it's going to be you
and me and Gilon and Sarah, whopeople might recognize from the
YouTube channel. So that's gonnabe a really fun one. And then a

(03:39):
whole bunch of us are going tobe holding down the fort in the
expo hall.

Alban (03:42):
Yeah, yeah. Kevin's coming. Tom's coming. Our friend
Reggie is coming. We're gonnahave a big group. It's gonna be
fun.

Kevin (03:49):
Are we doing any like meetups or anything? Happy
hours, something like that.

Alban (03:53):
We don't have any planned I we put something together. I'm
sure.

Jordan (03:56):
We should!

Alban (03:57):
The best ones we've ever done is like we just walk up to
a bar. And we're like, Hey, wegot a tap now. And we told
everybody to come over here. Wecould collect like cell phone
numbers or something. Or someway to like contact people.

Kevin (04:10):
Oh, it'd be like a pop up party.

Alban (04:11):
Pop up party! Yes!

Kevin (04:12):
So we could put a signup sheet at the booth and they can
write down their cell phonenumber for pop up party. And
then we will at some randomtime. Give everyone like 10
minutes notice. Pop up party.

Alban (04:21):
I'll be honest, if somebody put Give me your cell
phone number for a pop up party,I would not put myself number
down.

Jordan (04:27):
I would have 1,000% but my cell phone number down.

Alban (04:29):
You're gonna get random texts.

Kevin (04:32):
Yeah, I would do it.
You're not putting it out therefor everybody. You're signing up
on the Buzzsprout sheet for theBuzzsprout pop up party. It's
totally fine. You don't want toput your cell phone number down
then you don't go to the party.
I mean, I'm not talking aboutyou because you you're putting
on the party. Yeah, everyone'sgonna be there. So I think it's
thing is pop up party thing, ordo we just invent that? I'm sure
it's the thing. It's gonna be athing at Podcast Movement. Can

(04:54):
you put like a QR code down andpeople can scan it and then join
your Whatsapp group? Yep. Forreal Then that's it, scan this
QR code for the pop up party.

Alban (05:04):
Alright, so we'll have a QR code on the table, we'll
figure out a way to messageeverybody like to WhatsApp or
some sort of like chat group,because then everybody can
connect about not just the oneor two like, Hey, we're going
out and grabbing drinks. But ifpeople want to get dinner
together, if people want to goto talks together, hey, what
talk are you looking at? Hey,would you give me your notes,

(05:24):
building those connections?
Because if you go to aconference by yourself, totally,
it can get pretty lonely orboring. And it's so much more
fun to go with a group ofpeople. And you know, keep up
with them after the conferenceends.

Jordan (05:35):
Yeah, that was what was really surprising to me was like
how easy it was to get loopedinto like group chats and stuff.
I mean, I knew some people likefrom the Facebook group and
stuff. So it was really cool tomeet people from the Facebook
group. But yeah, I was reallysurprised at how easy it was to
get looped into chats, and thenyou'd like randomly get like a
message like, Hey, we're gonnago out to dinner or like, you
want to come or we're gonna gograb lunch. Do you need lunch?

(05:58):
It's definitely good way to doit. So yeah, if we had a
Buzzsprout group chat kind ofthing going on, that'd be a
great way for people to not bealone if they're going by
themselves.

Kevin (06:07):
Alright, so Podcast Movement plans are coming
together. Right, so talks arelocked in. We've got a game to
play at our booth. We've gotsome new shirts coming and a
good crew

Jordan (06:21):
So have either of you two ever been treasure hunting?

Kevin (06:24):
Yeah.

Alban (06:25):
No, but I definitely started once I read what you
posted. I started going throughthis poem and trying to pull out
clues and got some ideas

Jordan (06:34):
It's interesting to me that you guys have not ever been
treasure hunting especiallysince you live in Florida you
guys got like the like pirategold and like the Spaniards

Kevin (06:42):
I have been treasure hunting

Jordan (06:43):
You have been?

Kevin (06:44):
Yeah a lot.

Jordan (06:45):
Like on a ship?

Kevin (06:46):
No.

Jordan (06:47):
Oh.

Kevin (06:47):
No, that's not real.
People in Florida don't reallydo that.

Jordan (06:50):
You never did like the diving stuff?

Kevin (06:52):
You do the geocaching.

Jordan (06:53):
Me too!

Kevin (06:54):
Yeah, that's treasure hunting.

Jordan (06:56):
We should go geocaching.
Yeah, I love geocaching. It'svery fun.

Kevin (07:00):
Oh Alban's looking like you don't know what this is. You
know what geocaching is?

Alban (07:03):
Yeah, I know geocaching is I've gone for runs and seeing
people geocaching. I wouldn'tdescribe what I saw as a lot of
fun. I try my like, I followinglike the GPS coordinates to a
location. And then it's like,look for the old pill bottle.
Like oh, there it is.
Jordan, I'm assuming to do thiswith your kids, right?

Jordan (07:24):
No! no.

Alban (07:27):
I knew it. Oh.

Jordan (07:31):
I actually really enjoy geocaching. Like when I go
traveling and stuff like that,like go like different places.
Because typically what people dois they hide the caches in a
spot that's really special insome way. Or maybe like a place
that you want to go. It's areally good way to like explore
city or something. I mean, it'snot always like a pill bottle.
Like they have macro caches too,that are just like ginormous.

(07:52):
And then they have micro cachesthat are like the size of a
pill. It's a it's really,really, really fun. But I was
really excited about this Xmarks the spot podcast is a
podcast about Forrest Fenn,who's that kind of like
eccentric art dealer that hid $2million worth of treasure in
like a bronze chest. And hewrote a book. And in the book,

(08:15):
it had clues to his treasure aswell as a poem. And some like
information about it. But thispodcast X marks the spot kind of
tells the story about that. Andit's only nine episodes long,
which is really nice, actuallyjust binged it this week. And
it's very, very well produced.
It's fun, fun, listen, so Idefinitely recommend it. But at
the end of the podcast series,they actually announced that

(08:38):
they themselves have created atreasure hunt within the
podcast, they have $50,000 upfor grabs as the prize for
whoever can solve it. And it'sreally exciting that it's a
digital treasure hunt. You know,you can be just one of those
like armchair to treasurehunters. I went to the website
and the admin for the websitesaid that clues are dispersed

(09:00):
throughout both the YouTube andthe podcast, audio feed. And the
clues in each are not the same,which I thought was really
interesting because I went tothe YouTube channel, and I
thought maybe it would be videoso there'd be like a visual
aspect to it. But it's just likethe static podcast cover. So I
think that there might bediscrepancies in like the audio
between the podcast and betweenthe YouTube Audio. And then they

(09:21):
also indicated in a couple spotsthat there's clues hidden in
their social posts as well. ButI guess most of the clues to
this $50,000 prize are withinthe podcast itself. And then
they have a poem listed too.
Yeah, this is just like all myfavorite things. I love riddles.
I love games. I love treasurehunts. I love podcasts like it's

(09:44):
just like this culmination ofvery exciting things. So I have
to admit I thought about this alot more than I thought I would.

Kevin (09:52):
This is a marketing angle. Is that what I'm hearing?

Alban (09:55):
]Yeah, for sure. I mean, you're getting everybody to go
watch you on YouTube and listento the podcast probably multiple
times really closely. You know,this has happened a few times
with different books. Yeah, thatpeople have hidden stuff inside
of the book, or they've hiddentreasure and said, Hey, this
book contains the clues. Itdrives up the sails because
everyone's like, franticallygoing around. And then you see

(10:16):
someone like digging in a randomarea. They're like, what are you
doing, like, are trying to findsome treasure for a book? And,
hey, this is good, freemarketing for you. So I mean, we
wouldn't have talked about thispodcast.

Kevin (10:27):
What did you mean, Jordan, when you said it was
like a digital thing? Like youcan solve this whole mystery
just from sitting at home infront of your computer? You can
solve the whole thing?

Jordan (10:35):
Yes, yeah, you can. So you can register on their
website, I'll put a link to itin the show notes. But when you
enter the treasure hunt, theywill actually send you an email
that has like a little bit moreinformation and some hints to
like help you along the way. Butit's only open to people in the
United States. Some honestly,like having listened to the

(10:57):
whole series through one time,I'm super tempted to listen
again and just see if there werethings that like I missed, it's
very, very fun.

Alban (11:05):
I'm in real time like researching stuff, trying to
find what some of thesereferences. Can I read some of
this poem? And he's pretty good.
"I know the keeper has threekeys, but he keeps them away
from me. Ever watchful Cerberussees, let's hear closely what
awaits me." If it's digital, andthree keys, doesn't an SSL
certificate have three keys,Kevin?

Kevin (11:25):
I do not know.

Alban (11:26):
I think it does. I think you have a session key private
key and public key services, thethree headed dog that guards
hell, right? Yeah. Yeah, this isone of the things that's like
very unhealthy for me to getinterested in. Because like, I'm
either going to be like, Ah,this is dumb, and move on. Or be
like, Alright, so now I need torip the audio off these YouTubes

(11:47):
and transcribe them and thencompare it with the podcast
transcript that I write and,okay, what's the discrepancy? Is
there a way to analyze to see ifthere's actually any changes in
the video? Or is it really juststatic or is like stuff pop up
on the screen for half a frame,you know, going line by line
trying to pull it apart? I don'tknow. Like, it just seems like
one of these things like youcould spend hundreds and

(12:09):
hundreds of hours on. And thenyou find out somebody else found
the treasure and it was totallya direct path. And you're like,
Oh, great. I need to go get anew job now.

Jordan (12:18):
I love stuff like this.
Like I've even done the homelike murder cases and stuff like
that and solve those. I'm justlike a sucker for riddles and
brain teasers and things likethat. So

Alban (12:31):
Well, I think it's a super cool idea. I wish it was
available to people outside theUS. It's kind of a bummer.

Jordan (12:37):
If you're gonna play along, though.

Alban (12:40):
A little bit of a bummer, right? It's like you can play
along with somebody else's getaway in your $50,000 like, Okay,
thanks.

Jordan (12:46):
I have to admit, I'm, I'm going to try to solve this
myself. Do I think I will be thefirst one to solve it and get
the 50k? No, but for me, it'skind of like more fun in the
solving of the problem is gonnabe

Alban (12:59):
like four months from now. Jordans, like becoming
increasingly disheveled in allthe videos and it's like, "I
found it!"

Jordan (13:08):
I'm gonna start looking like that It's Always Sunny in
Philadelphia meme of the guywith like, the cigarette.

Alban (13:13):
Exactly. Charlie, all the strings.

Kevin (13:16):
Yeah, Pepe Silvia. It's a great idea for a true crime
genre podcast. Because all thepeople who listen like you're
giving them an opportunity tosolve a mystery to write like,
follow clues solveWell, I don't think it is a true
crime genrekind of fits into that right,
isn't it? Like, I mean, youlisten to the podcast, I didn't.
But I feel like a treasure huntis kind of like solving it is
not not like true crime mystery,but solving a mystery of where's

(13:39):
this treasure? And so people wholike true crime probably like
this, people who like true crimeprobably like the idea of I wish
I could follow the clues one dayand like, here's an opportunity
to follow some clues and notnecessarily solve a crime but
have a reward at the end.

Jordan (13:53):
Yeah, I think that there's like that element of
adventure and outdoors. Andthere's also like a historical
element to it. Because there'ssome references to like
historical figures that mightlie in the clues and stuff like
that. So it's a little bit ofeverything. I like it. I mean,
that's kind of thing is like, welove treasure hunts. We love the
Goonies, we love TreasureIsland, we love National

(14:15):
Treasure. You know, like thosemovies are exciting, because
there's like a thrill infiguring things out and like
getting to the prize,

Kevin (14:23):
you probably have some level of success, even without
the price, like just solving thepuzzle. It makes me think like
whenever somebody puts a bigprize at the end of something
like this, it makes me feel likeyou want me to take on this
hobby. And now you're you'relike trying to force me to take
it on with this massive prizethat only one person is going to
win. I'd be more motivated to doit without the prize, like the
prize is the journey, right?
That's going to be fun.

Alban (14:44):
So you're actually saying it's the fact that you're a US
citizen is why you're not doingit.

Kevin (14:47):
I'm just saying like Jordan brought up the Goonies
example, isn't that a greatexample? Like who wouldn't? Like
if you had the opportunity totake a Goonies adventure like
wouldn't you take the Gooniesadventure? That sounds like a
blast, right? I don't need allthe gold and rubies at the end.
But if there are golden rubiesat the end, and then I don't get
them, that's a massivedisappointment. And then I miss
out on the fun of the journey.
Anyway, I'm just trying to say,if you have an idea like this

(15:08):
that could work for yourpodcast, you don't have to put
up a $50,000 prize, I think youcould still make a fun thing
that might work as a marketingtool, people still might just
enjoy the process.

Jordan (15:17):
What if you do a treasure hunt? Like a digital
treasure hunt? And the prize isthe link to a secret bonus
episode of your podcast? Yeah,that can be fun. Yeah. Alvin
does not look enthused.

Alban (15:32):
Nobody's tried to solve a riddle for a bonus episode of
Buzzcast. Or I don't even knowwhat to record.

Kevin (15:37):
This is what we're gonna do, we're gonna workshop this
out Podcast Movement, you canjoin the WhatsApp group to get
the first clue to where theparty is. But you got to follow
the clue to find another clue.
Another clue. And at the end,there'll be like one person that
shows up to our party.

Jordan (15:51):
It'll be me. I figured it out, guys.

Alban (15:55):
Jordan. You were there in the meeting when we planned
this.
So Amazon Music has joined Appleand Spotify and Stitcher and
Google by adding some more oftheir own platform stats. So
there's all the stats that youknow, Buzzsprout can create for
you based on who's downloadingfiles. But there's also some

(16:18):
stats that are not super easy tobe passed to the podcast hosts.
And Amazon has added, you know,a bunch of those to their
platform. So Jordan, can youtell us a little bit about what
kind of stats we can expect fromAmazon music?

Jordan (16:29):
I went ahead and connected my podcasts to their
podcasters dashboard. Andthey're actually very basic
stats, you know, they havestarts place the number of
listeners and the number offollowers, which is always nice
to see. And you can actuallylook at it for the last seven
days or up to like last 90 daysor so.

Kevin (16:48):
So what's helpful about these stats is they show
followers and like listeners,listeners usually will probably
tie pretty closely to theDownload stats that you see in
your Buzzsprout account. Butfollowers, not something that we
have. So that's cool. And nowyou can get it from Apple
podcasts. You get it fromSpotify. Google stitcher has
some analytics. I don't thinkmany people listen on Stitcher,
but Amazon continues to growslowly in the space and you can

(17:11):
send any followers you have onAmazon. It's not a breathtaking
amount of data. But it issomething and if you're in the
stats, it's another thing thatyou can add that when you're
going through your data, you cancheck Amazon now. So that's
cool.

Alban (17:20):
When players provide this, like podcast Apps Show
this data, think the playthrough data is the most
valuable that and the Hey 40people downloaded it, but only
20 of them actually played anyof it. Those are those two stats
that I really want to see.

Kevin (17:36):
Yeah, but I think it's alright, though, don't you
because Amazon represents such asmall number, like a small
percentage of total plays rightnow, it doesn't even really
matter. The good news here isthat they're interested in
providing some stats back topodcasters when you list your
podcasts on their platform, andso I imagine as they continue to
get more and more influence inthe space and listener share,
they'll probably add more stats.
Right now if they were showingyou the play through data on the

(17:57):
10 downloads that you didthrough Amazon music. Again, it
would be such a small percentageof your total downloads. I'm not
sure how helpful it would be butI like that they seem to be
moving in that direction.

Alban (18:11):
Vengeance is new movie that comes out today. The first
time that BJ Novak has directedsomething.

Kevin (18:17):
He never directed any of The Office episodes?

Alban (18:19):
He was one of the writers.

Jordan (18:21):
He actually was a director on a couple on like
five different shows. But it'shis directorial debut for film I
believe. Even though everyone'ssaying it's the directorial if
you go to his IMDb it's he's gotbunch

Alban (18:34):
That's like a pretty niche like announcement. Ooh,
isn't my directorial debut of afilm that he's directed like a
ton of hit TV shows. It's notlike the office is some obscure
nobody's ever heard of it. Butkeep he's probably a pretty good
director.

Kevin (18:48):
I think that's what builds the excitement is that
people who have seen him on TVand they liked the episodes of
the television episodes thathe's directed there, like now
you can watch that same style infilm. That's the excitement. I
don't think it's like anaccolade.

Alban (19:00):
He's playing a guy from New York who's investigating the
death of a girl he was dating orinterested in or something. And
she has died in West Texas andhe is a podcaster and he is
traveling around interviewingpeople and probably doing show
reads for Blue Apron and Caspermattresses along the way.

Kevin (19:19):
I thought I thought the trailer was like good and bad.
There was moments where I waslike, Oh, this could be a really
good show. It looks promising.
And then there's parts of thetrailer that looks really hokey
and terrible.

Jordan (19:28):
You know, it's funny because the reviews that I've
seen have been very mixed aboutthis movie. So I think it's one
of those things where like, I'mgonna have to see it for myself
and maybe just not look at itthrough like a critical lens but
more is just like a bit of likea dark comedy or something like
that. I get the feeling thatthere is some like humor in it
that is not quite landing forsome people, but maybe seeing it

(19:50):
through the lens of a podcasterI'm sure that there's some
things that might be a littlebit more funny to me than it
would be to someone who doesn'tknow anything about it.

Alban (19:58):
This may not be a flattering portrayal of
podcaster may be like a personwho's a podcaster and thinks
they're a journalist and thinksthey can solve a murder. But
instead, they just getthemselves into more trouble
than they mess up lawenforcement. We don't know what
there's gonna be a positiveportrayal.

Jordan (20:11):
Based on what I saw. I'm kind of curious if he is
portraying, like acharacterization of Payne
Lindsey from Up and Vanished.
There's there's just likecertain things that remind me a
lot of Payne Lindsey so I'minterested to see if he is sort
of poking fun at that kind ofpodcasting journalist.

Alban (20:31):
I think that's just a very attractive thing to write
into a story because one, it'slike, completely absurd. And it
comes across as like a littleegotistical like, Oh, you think
you're gonna solve this case,but then it keeps happening that
people are getting out of jailor like cases are actually being
solved. And like investigativejournalists have done for a

(20:51):
really long time is they'relike, hey, there's something
kind of weird about this case.
And they look into it. And ifyou have someone who's smart,
paying attention and readingeverything for months,
eventually some of them go, oh,I actually found something that
probably law enforcement couldhave caught and they get
something reopened and it kicksoff somebody being released or
somebody being captured.

Jordan (21:12):
It's really, really exciting when you're listening
to a podcast, and then you getto an episode where it's just
like, hey, update, there wasactually like a break because
like a listener recognizedsomebody from something. And
like that listener reported it.
So I've actually listened topodcasts where they actually
brought the story to the massesthrough the podcast, and then a

(21:34):
listener was like, Wait asecond. I mean, that's what
America's Most Wanted. AndUnsolved Mysteries did a lot to
where they would like presentthe story. It's just kind of
like a different medium. I usedto be so scared of America's
most moronic. Yeah, like thescary music, and it's like this
person still on the loose as akid, oh, just like, Oh, my God.

Alban (21:56):
So I have heard I don't know this is true that America's
Most Wanted was actually highlyinfluenced, like, who was on the
list was highly influenced bypeople they thought they're
ready to capture. So is actuallylike propaganda. I don't know if
that is true in any way. I haveheard that. It'd be interesting
to look into. But also likehaving your face out there as
like a terrible criminal. Likesomebody works with you at

(22:19):
Arby's, and is like, oh my gosh,that guy I don't like is a
serial killer. I knew it. I'mturning him in.

Kevin (22:26):
It's got an 80% Rotten Tomatoes and 70% Fan score.
That's pretty good. Yeah. Andthe more podcasts show up in
mainstream, like the better forthe whole podcasting ecosystem.
So that's great.

Jordan (22:37):
I am really excited about this movie, because I do
like BJ Novak. I love him as anactor, as a writer and as a
producer, so I'm excited to seehim do a movie too.

Alban (22:53):
Alright, so speaking of investigative reporters, solving
crimes, did you guys read thisarticle from James Cridland
trying to solve the crime ofpeople spamming? podcasters?

Jordan (23:04):
Yeah, he really set up quite the trap, which is very
funny and very creative of him,James Cridland, he updated the
RSS feed for pod news withtrackable email addresses. And
then he keeps a running list ofthe podcast companies that are
combing through the RSS feeds tospam podcasters. So he's got a

(23:28):
results list that is actuallylike currently being updated
still. And we'll have links tothat in the show notes. But this
is a really interesting story.

Alban (23:36):
What happens is we put our email addresses in the RSS
feed. And it's a way for you tovalidate like, hey, actually
control this podcast and yousubmit it to directories. That's
the main reason that it was putin there. The main use case is
for companies to go throughmillions and millions of
podcasts, grab all the emailaddresses out, and then send a

(23:56):
bunch of garbage to everybody.
And so what James did was he setup a totally different email,
because everyone's sending stuffto like, whatever his you know,
general inboxes. So he sets upthis new one is his spam trap.

Kevin (24:08):
Yeah. So based on the user agent that's requesting the
feed, he gives them differentemail addresses, which is pretty
clever solution. So it'sprobably all lands in the same
inbox. But if it's Applepodcasts that's requesting it,
they'll get one email addressand Spotify get another and
overcast to get another and sothen he can tell like which
directory they're using to beable to pull his email address

(24:30):
from

Alban (24:30):
Ooh, interesting. Yeah, it's clever. So what were the
results

Jordan (24:35):
since he did the spam trap in May? It looks like the
number one top spammer wasbacktracks. What's kind of
interesting about this? When youlook at his graph on the
spammers list, you can see thatmajority of the spam emails were
received in May and June, andthen almost as soon as James can

(25:00):
Hold out the spammers. You cansee there's this definite drop
in the spam emails on his graphthat he's got going on. It's
just almost zero.

Alban (25:09):
Yeah, you're right. May it just keeps escalating. And
then in June, it just liketotally cuts off. So do you
think I thought there could betwo reasons like one is yours,
but I actually think is might beright that maybe people noticed
it? And we're like, oh, we'regonna get called out? Or do you
think it could also be that it'slike when a new podcast feed
comes out? Is this a new feed?
Or is this just the he said

Jordan (25:31):
in May 2022, we amended PodNews's podcast RSS feed to
produce a near infinite amountof trackable email addresses as
a kind of spam trap.

Kevin (25:40):
That's interesting, because I was, I knew where
you're going with that album.
And I agreed with that theory.
Whenever I publish a newpodcast, I seem to get more spam
on the new one. And then it diesoff after a little while,

Jordan (25:50):
I still get a lot of spam on my personal podcast
email.

Alban (25:54):
So that could still be a way that this is like a newness
issue. Like you're gonna havethese trackers that are going
around trying to grab emailaddresses. And maybe when they
see a new one, they're like,ooh, new email address, put this
on the like fresh list orsomething and send out a new
collection. So it could be thatsince he was dynamically putting
new email addresses in maybe hewas getting more hits, but that

(26:17):
seeming less and less likely tobe now I'm think I'm convincing
myself of years Jordan thatmaybe what's happening here is
people saw it, and they're like,oh, gosh, I really don't like
all this a cast. You know,reporting that's been coming out
of everybody seems to be kind ofpiling on and talking about how
bad they cast spam is. We'veactually been sending a ton of
spam from backtracks andbacktracks is like, you know,

(26:39):
let's, let's tone that down. Sowhat were the others on this
list?

Jordan (26:43):
So the other ones were on podium, good pods, pod vine,
who actually did not have a wayto unsubscribe for their emails
to which James called out andthen they later fixed and then
Gmail and one that I'm prettysure all the other podcasters
listening this are familiar withwisdom app. Wisdom app sends

(27:03):
copious amounts of spam email, Iwas actually surprised that they
weren't at the top of the listand backtracks was, because I
think wisdom is one of the topspammers in the industry right?
Now,

Alban (27:14):
this might seem pretty obvious to everybody else. But
when I saw Gmail, I was like,what is what is Google sending?
And, like, realize these are thedomains that are sending the
emails. And so this is just [e-mail] [e-mail]
Writing people. So as people arescraping a list and sending it
from their personal Gmail, it'snot like Google workspace is

(27:36):
sending a bunch of like, hey,get your podcast onto this
platform or something.

Jordan (27:40):
Yeah, if you scroll down a bit, he actually has the
emails listed out if you scrolldown, it looks like pod machine
is also spamming a lot based onthis.

Alban (27:50):
Yeah, there's a lot that are just like, here are the
podcasts that are trending.
Here's your podcast, and it'sranking in this chart. Here.
It's ranking in good pods. Thatseems to be some of the top
spammers. They're really justsaying, like, Hey, your podcast
is trending here. And I'm sureit's a way for them to kind of
gin up a little bit moreengagement on their app, or
their tracking setup. Andthey're like, Hey, come over

(28:13):
here and set up an account. Andyou can see how your podcast is
tracking with backtracks or goodpots, or how it's performing
over here, we're gonna have tojust say, we can't even have
email addresses in feeds. Ifevery time you sign up, you get
one email from Apple saying,hey, please verify. And like one
from Google, you get like twoemails that are like, Hey, let's
verify that you control thispodcast. Everything else is

(28:33):
like, hey, why don't you sign upfor the service that you weren't
looking for? And not that theservices are bad, but the
marketing tactic is definitelybad. I can't unsubscribe. I
can't get out of it. And Ididn't sign up for this to begin
with.

Jordan (28:50):
Yeah, why do we have the email addresses in the RSS feed?

Alban (28:54):
The it's just for the verification, Apple used to some
of the other directories used itso that you could say, you know,
I submitted this podcast, butnow I have a way of getting
communicated to by Apple. Ithink that was the theory for
why it's put in there to beginwith. But you're actually
signing up for Apple podcastsconnect Spotify, you're
submitting via an API throughyour podcast host. So we're

(29:17):
actually finding ways aroundthis anyway. I almost wonder How
bad would it be if we juststopped putting that in there?

Jordan (29:24):
Do you think that there's any possibility of email
addresses being removed from theRSS feed?

Kevin (29:29):
I think there is a possibility of doing that. I
haven't read James proposal fordoing it. But I'm sure it's
good. I'm not against it, weprobably will have to do it at
some point. It's just theproblem is the spammers, like
slimy marketing tactics. And itannoys people. somebody knocks
on your door at six o'clock whenyou're trying to get dinner
ready, and they want to sell youwhatever magazines that's what
spam feels like. Until I'm likelistening to a podcast. And

(29:50):
there's an ad where I understandthe ad is helping to pay for
this podcast that I'm receivingfor free or subsidized by the ad
or something like that, likethat feels like a fair exchange.
Or if I'm doing a Google search,and there's During the ads for
something relevant to what Isearched for, that kind of feels
like a fair exchange, like I'mactively seeking out something,
you're trying to be helpful. Andthere's some advertising
dollars. There are models thatfeel less scammy than this. But

(30:12):
it's just disruptive. It'spushy. And that's the problem.
And so I Liked this article, Ilike what James is doing. I
think this is a good use of hisjournalistic power to try to
shut some of this stuff down. Sothe problem isn't necessarily
email addresses in RSS feeds, wemight be able to solve that. But
that's not really the problem.
The problem are people who areusing that to do things that is
just turn off for people. He hadRoss Adams from a cast on pod

(30:32):
land last week or the weekbefore Sam, I think asked him
the question about spamming. AndI thought it was like, I don't
know, like, you can listen topodcast, you can decide for
yourself for me, I listened tohis answer. He said, Yeah, we A
B test lots of differentmarketing channels. And you
know, if it works, we do it andlike that we're actually cutting
back on. But he didn't say we'recutting back on it, because it's
crap and thing to do. He said,we're cutting back on it,

(30:55):
basically, because it's notworking. And it's like, well, is
that really the brand image youwant to put out there for people
is that we'll do things, whetherthey're, they're good or bad, or
they make people feel good orbad, or whether it's pushy or
scammy, or spammy or whatever.
If it works, we'll do it. Like,that's what I took away from
that interview. So if that's thetype of company that you want to
be fine, go ahead. There aremany of those companies all over

(31:15):
the world. And if people want towork with those companies then
Have at it, you know, we're notgoing to do that. I was
disappointed to see good pods onthere. Hopefully, they learned a
lesson about doing stuff likethat, because good pods is a
good company with good people,like don't hurt your reputation
in that way. But everybody elseon that list, like they kind of
are garbage companies. Itdoesn't surprise me that I see
garbage marketing tactics fromgarbage companies.

Alban (31:39):
So Acast may not have been the first people to figure
out how to spam you. But RobinWilliams may have been the first
podcaster what do we have here?

Jordan (31:48):
James Cridland wrote up an article stating that he
thought perhaps Robin Williamscould have been the first
podcaster. And he broughtreceipts. He had YouTube videos
from 2000 when Robin Williams,who was an early investor in
audible had actually created ashow on Audible that you could

(32:11):
download. And they had this liketech that would go along with
it. So he was actually doingrounds on these talk shows in
early 2000. And it's so funny towatch these videos, because it's
him saying like, well, it's anmp3 and it's a show and I have
like this celebrity on and wetalked about this. And the hosts
are just like so confused. LikeI don't understand, what would

(32:34):
you do with this. And so he'slike, trying to explain to them
how downloading audio to yourdevice works. And it's just it's
really fun to watch. So, there'ssome interesting things that
James Cridland brings up in thisarticle.

Alban (32:46):
The first experience I had with the story was James put
out a like a little sarcastictweet, he found something on
Audible and was like, maybeRobin Williams was the first
podcaster and he's like, What isthis kinda like? Well, great,
another person who says thefirst podcaster and then started
researching it. And when I'vewatched these clips, and I read
this article, what RobinWilliams was doing in 2000 is

(33:09):
more like what I would say, is apodcast than what is happening
on a lot of YouTube channelsthat I call podcasts. It's
missing these like technicalthings like a lot of the
argument now is about liketechnicalities, like, Oh, does
it have to be distributed an RSSfeed with an audio enclosure?
And like it wasn't using an RSSfeed and audio enclosure? So if

(33:31):
that's your definition, no, itdoesn't work. But these are
Robin Williams talking tocelebrity friends in these kind
of like uncut interviews, andthey're having fun. And you can
download the audio. And you canplay it on your device. And you
can listen to it, you cansubscribe to it. So that is
automatically downloaded. Andthe way he's talking about it

(33:53):
sounds exactly like a podcast,even the reasons like oh, well I
can connect better to theaudience. It's longer form. I
don't have to try to fit theradio style. It's uncensored,
and I have complete control. I'mlike, This sounds like the stuff
that we hear at Podcast Movementhere. And 22 years later, it was
almost kind of surreal. And it'slike everybody's so much younger

(34:14):
in the videos. It's actuallypretty cool.
Yeah, you know what it remindedme of? I don't know the whole
backstory. But do you rememberthe Jerky Boys?
What are the Jerky Boys?

Kevin (34:24):
The Jerky Boys were these guys who did prank phone calls.
And they did all these sillyvoices. They'd call random
people they'd call restaurantsthey'd call whatever businesses
and they would do these reallyfunny bits

Alban (34:35):
Like Crank Yankers or whatever.

Kevin (34:36):
Yeah, kind of like that.
And this was like, I must havebeen in middle school when
people would get Jerky Boyscassette tapes that started as a
very viral underground thing.
Somebody would have a tape andyou'd listen to and it's
hilarious and you would doubleit. You'd make a copy of that
tape and then you'd make copiesfor your friends and you were
spreading this stuff aroundbecause they were they might

(34:56):
have been they want to work fora radio station or something
like that. But I think theystarted just like completely on
their own. And they made copiesof these tapes for their
friends. And then those friendsmade copies for their friends.
And then I think they got pickedup and I got a radio gig. And
then at some point, theyactually got a deal. And they
got CDs. But it started like oncassette tapes, copies of
cassette tapes that were beingspread around. And before that,

(35:18):
there were ham radio operators,and everyone that has wanted to,
like, have a show have a radioshow, right? Like, how do I do
this just as a normal person, Idon't work for a radio station,
how do I create audio contentand share it with the world. And
whether that your solution tothat was ham radio operator, or
whether your solution to thatwas, I'm just going to record
myself to a cassette tape andmake copies for my friends, or
your solution was RobinWilliams, you know, knew

(35:39):
somebody at Audible and recordedhimself talking with other
celebrities. And they publishedthat through audible somehow, I
think the beginnings ofpodcasting, just go back
forever. And you'll alwaysprobably be able to find
somebody further back who didsomething similar, which is fun
to explore the rich history ofthat. But I don't really
understand our podcasters whoget all uptight about who is the

(36:00):
official first podcaster. Like,who really cares. I just think
it's really fun and interestingto see that there's roots like
to what we're doing now, likethe roots go back so deep. And
so that's really fun andinteresting.

Alban (36:11):
Did you ever watch this documentary about the origins of
Who let the dogs out know thesong who looked up? From the
Baja boys?

Kevin (36:19):
That was for the Chihuahua movie, right?

Alban (36:21):
It was in the Chihuahua movie. It was a hit song, and
you know, about 2000 or 99, orsomething. And this guy, a
comedians, like, oh, there wasactually a bunch of lawsuits
about who wrote the song. Andthen he starts going back
farther and farther. He's like,oh, this person claims they
wrote the song. And then he goesback, and he talks to them. And

(36:43):
he's like, but then it actuallyseems like somebody else claimed
it, and then somebody else andhe keeps going back further and
further and further. And it'sjust ridiculous. Like, he's
going from 99 to 96 to 95 to 94.
And then there's someone in 88.
And it just keeps going. It'slike, it's one of these things
like you're like, okay, thestory's over now. And then
there's some prior version, thatslightly different, you know,

(37:05):
some things just seemed likethere wasn't really something
totally like this until it'shappened for the first time. But
other trends like you can justsee the threads for dozens and
dozens of years, and it kind ofis materializing into its final
form. And podcasting feels likethat in 2006, like iTunes ads

(37:25):
podcast, and that's a hugemoment, but then you're like,
well, 2004 there's people arepodcasting. And actually 2001 We
have Adam curry and Dave Weiner,like trying to put audio into
the enclosure, probably it'slike two dozen ones, the
beginning of podcasting. And nowwe're seeing man Robin Williams
was doing something seemed a lotlike a podcast, and then rob
Greenlee over at Lipson poppedup and was like, if that counts

(37:45):
as a podcast, I was doing thisother thing and 99 that kind of
counts. And I don't know if it'slike the world's most
interesting conversation toargue about who is like
technically number one, but itis a really cool piece of
history to see, oh, this hasactually been materializing. For
a long time. Maybe the JerkyBoys were number one candidate.

Kevin (38:07):
Yeah, I just looked at Wikipedia. They started in the
70s. Yes. Okay. So we need to

Alban (38:11):
reach out to a bunch of journalists, we found diverse
podcasters the Jerky Boys,

Jordan (38:17):
I think with that train of thought we're gonna wind up
at the Gutenberg Press. Ifyou're gonna go back, like, like
a cassette, this link to this islinked to that.

Kevin (38:29):
Yeah, I mean, I agree that Dave and Adam were the two
guys who put the technologytogether that gives us the
podcasting that we know today,right, like a digital audio file
distributed through an RSSenclosure. That's what we know,
is podcasting today, but eventoday, the definition of that is
continuing to get stretched andexpanded, like is a YouTube
show. That's just you know, twoor three people talking about

(38:50):
microphones is that a podcast alot of people say it is. And
that's not distributed with anRSS feed and enclose your tag
and all that other kind ofstuff. So who really cares?
What's interesting here is likeall the fun versions of the
history and not only like whereit started, whether it be
cassette tape or ham radio, or,you know, whatever slate and
chisel all the way through likein the future, what could it

(39:12):
possibly become?

Alban (39:13):
I would like to be clear that the only thing that
actually seems a lot like apodcast that's before the RSS is
this Robin Williams thing, likeall the style is there. The
conversations there, unedited.
The point is that I can do itand there's no gatekeeper on a
radio station. There's noregulation over this thing so I
could totally be myselfinterviewing.

(39:35):
Well, the Jerky Boys fit thatmold too.

Jordan (39:37):
Subscribing for automatic downloads...

Alban (39:39):
Subcribing for automatic downloads.

Kevin (39:41):
The Jerky Boys didn't have subscriptions.

Alban (39:42):
If a new jerky boy cassette drop, Kevin would drive
into your house.

Kevin (39:47):
It was a big day in middle school when somebody had
a new Jerky Boys tape tellingyou and then all your friends
had to bring you blank tapes solike because they're like make
me a copy. I'm like bring me ablank tape. I'll make you copy.

Alban (39:58):
Is this is this real?

Kevin (40:00):
This is real. This is how we used to do it.

Jordan (40:03):
He was running like a Jerky Boys ring.

Kevin (40:06):
Yeah, I never even thought to sell them and never
even thought to sell them. But Iprobably could have I could have
been a premium podcastdistribution model could have
been the first

Jordan (40:13):
I wonder what the statute of limitations on
cassette duplication is.

Kevin (40:17):
Yeah, I didn't think about that.

Alban (40:19):
Yeah. Jerky Boys V. Kevin Finn.

Kevin (40:22):
If I were smart, I would have gone to local retailers and
I would have had like, let theJerky Boys do a little five
minute bit and then I would havedone my ad for the local arcade.
And then five more minutes ofJerky Boys and then Kevin do an
ad read for another localbusiness. The ice cream shop
down the road.

Alban (40:36):
Kevin's selling actual blue aprons. Yeah. "Do you have
a white aprons, they get stuffall over them. But now with Blue
Apron. You've got color hidingtechnology"

Kevin (40:48):
"Visit me at locker Bay 17 to pick up your Blue Apron
today."

Alban (40:53):
It has to have an audio enclosure and RSS feed. If it
doesn't have a blue apron or aCasper mattress ad in it,
doesn't count as is a realpodcast.

Jordan (41:01):
Not a podcast. Debunked.

Alban (41:11):
So Robin Williams might not have been reading
advertisements in this possiblefirst podcast ever. But if
you've been using Buzzsproutads, he would have been able to
include some ads in there.
Kevin, do we have an update?

Kevin (41:23):
Yeah, there's there's some big news where Buzzsprout
ads...your transitions areridiculous. Yeah, so let me give
you an update, we are working onsome new code for people who are
creating advertisements. So ifyou're doing an ad for your
podcast, you're gonna get awhole new section of reports.
And that is going to drop we'rerecording on Friday, this

(41:43):
episode is going to come out aweek from now. So it'll be out
by the time that anyone'slistening to this. So I'm just
gonna go and tell you about itand hope that it doesn't get
delayed. So what happens now isyou place your ad and you get
three air checks, which means webasically tell you three of the
many podcasts that your ad getsdropped into, then you can click
and listen to it in any of thosethree podcasts. But we've been
hearing more and more thatpeople want to hear, like all of

(42:05):
them, they want Air Checks foreverything and airchecks kind of
a funny word, because it's inthere for a little while, but
then it can come back out ofthat episode. That's the dynamic
nature of the advertising thatwe're offering. And so while
your ad is running, if it'srunning in 20, or 30, different
podcasts, you're gonna get linksto all 20 or 30 podcasts that
it's running in. And we're alsoproviding the feedback now for
like why some people have chosennot to run your ad. And I think

(42:28):
that's the other valuable pieceis that right? Now people can
accept your ad or they candecline it. And if they decline
it, we ask some questions aboutlike, why are you declining? It?
Are you just not interested init is the audio quality poor or
something else, I forget whatthe third one is, but now we're
going to show you that on yourreporting page as well. So when
you run an ad, you can see that,hey, it matched for 200
podcasts, but only 30 of themran it. And 20 People said that,

(42:50):
you know, they weren'tinterested in it. And but 10 of
them said the audio quality wasan issue for them. So if the
audio quality was higher orbetter, or maybe it didn't have
music in it or something likethat, maybe you would have
gotten in more podcasts. So allthat information is coming in
this new update. It's a big one,it's super exciting. That should
be live by the time you'rehearing this. The other big
announcement is that podcastersare making real money with

(43:12):
Buzzsprout ads, it's exceedingour expectations big time. And
so if you're a podcaster, andyou qualify, you should
definitely give this a look,we've paid out now $100,000 To
podcasters, who were justrunning ads with Buzzsprout ads.
So in the first five weeks,since people have been able to
get access to Buzzsprout ads andrun ads in their episodes,
$100,000 has now been paid out.
So that's amazing.

Alban (43:35):
100,000 is a lot because this is money that people were
not making. So this isn't like,oh, you turned off some other
ads feature. And you turned thison. This is in addition to
anything that our podcasters aredoing on their own. So people
always could have been doingvalue for value or donation
links, or using dynamic content,put in their own ads, or doing

(43:57):
baked in ads or doing a Patreon,like all that stuff is still
available. And that's notincluded in this number. This is
all just the Buzzsprout ads,once you start getting to a few
$1,000 to make some materialdifference in your life. This
isn't like you know, $5 thatyou're like, Okay, you know, I'm
going to buy like a happy mealor something like a few $1,000

(44:18):
that changes the budget for yourfamily's finances. And things
are getting really different.
And the prospect of, hey, Ireally don't like the job I've
been doing during the day andmaybe this podcasting thing can
become a bit more of what I'mdoing full time. That starts
making sense once you startgetting into those numbers. And
so it's very exciting that thisis just a piece of the

(44:41):
monetization for Buzzsproutpodcasters. Five weeks in, it's
very early, we have hundreds andhundreds of great ideas of how
to improve it.

Jordan (44:52):
It gives so much more control and so much more insight
to the podcasters that areactually doing the advertising
and putting their podcastspromos into the other podcasts,
they have the ability to makesure that the shows that are
running their ads are a good fitfor them as well, which is
really good. That's somethingthat they were asking for. And

(45:12):
then with the feedback, thefeedback, super helpful, but
it's also anonymous for thepodcasters that are choosing
that it's not a good fit. Sojust so that people know, like,
they're not going to know thatthis podcast said that my audio
quality was poor, it'scompletely anonymous. And it's
just kind of summarized forthose people to observe.

Kevin (45:33):
There's two sides to this marketplace, right? There's the
podcaster side who are runningthe ads. And then there's
advertisers who are right nowthey're all podcasters running
ads for their podcasts. And sowhen we launched, we really
focused on, you know, bothsides, but really focused on
making sure podcasters hadcontrol of what was being played
in their podcasts, that was themost important thing up front.
Now, we were able to roll thesecond side where we say, hey,

(45:55):
advertisers also need control.
And they're paying for an adspend. And it's going to be
played in a whole bunch ofdifferent podcasts, we want to
make sure that they have thecontrols that they need to feel
good about the money thatthey're spending to run their
ad. And as Jordan was saying,like, you're not only going to
see the full list of podcaststhat are playing your ad, but
you can also pull it out. So ifyou say you know what, this
person got matched with my ad,and they accepted it. But after

(46:17):
looking at that podcast orlistening to it, I don't
actually want my ad running inthere, you can just hit block,
it pulls your ad out, and addsthem to a block list. And now
when you run ads in the future,you don't have to do that,
again, they are blocked, as longas they're on your block list.
You can no if you change yourmind down the road, you can
always go back to that blocklist and take them off. But
that's the type of control nowthat we're going to have on both
sides of the equation.

Alban (46:38):
One thing I would like to point out because this wasn't
obvious to me, when Kevin firsttold me how it worked, the Air
Checks are only going to workwhile your ad is running. And I
was like, Oh, why can't we justkeep that so that everyone can
listen to the your checksforever. And he's like, Well,
because those ads will no longerexist. So once the ad has been

(46:58):
run, we can tell you how manytimes there was played. And we
can tell you a lot about it. Butwell, it's no longer in that
episode. So if you were to clickthrough, you would just hear
probably a different ad. Sothat's why those Air Checks are
there while it's being run. Andwhile you can make a change. And
you could say I don't like howthis sounds, I want my podcast

(47:19):
ad out of here, I don't want topay for this. So you can make
that you can make the decisionto block them.

Kevin (47:25):
Yeah, we've also we're starting to move away from the
term Air Checks because aircheck is traditional industry
term for a host read ad, that'swhere you would do the air check
because you gave a host talkingpoints, and then they just did
their own version of your ad. Soyou don't really need that when
it's a pre recorded ad, you canlisten to your pre recorded that
whenever you want. Whether theads running or not. What I was
talking about is hearing it incontext with the episode that

(47:47):
you can do while the while theads are live. But they come in
and then they play for a whilethen your ad fulfills and they
get pulled out. So you won't beable to hear it in context
anymore. Once that is fulfilled,but you can always hear your ad
we keep that on file.

Jordan (47:59):
Alright, that ends our show. So with that, thank you
for listening and keeppodcasting.

Alban (48:03):
Did you have any feedback from the Kevin Snopes editor
that... did it make it into ourpodcast?

Jordan (48:13):
I don't remember if it made it in.

Alban (48:14):
No? I mean, that was a good bit.

Kevin (48:16):
It did. I think that was the that was an open wasn't. I
thought it was the open butmaybe it wasn't now the open was
you given me harsh feedback.

Jordan (48:23):
Josh told me he was like, you probably really hurt
his feelings. And I was like, Idon't think I did. He's like you
probably did. You probablyreally hurt his feelings. And I
was just like, Oh, I didn't meanto.

Kevin (48:35):
No, you don't. My feelings are reserved for my
children. So we don't havefeelings on the show. You're
fine. You can say whatever.

Jordan (48:42):
That sounds very passive aggressive.

Alban (48:44):
Sounds like your feelings got hurt.

Kevin (48:46):
No, I'm not. I'm literally like, as your children
get older, you will start torealize that they are so mean,
teenagers are so mean. And so myfeelings are hurt so many times
during the day that when I haveany sort of other interaction
with an adult, it doesn't reallymatter what they say, I've
already been like, torn down tonothing. There's no more,
there's no lower it go. I haveno pride, or self confidence or

(49:10):
anything. I'm just okay. That'stotally fine. You don't like

Jordan (49:13):
I know you're trying to like assure me that I did not
hurt your feelings. But--

Alban (49:17):
By saying that other people are ripping you apart.

Kevin (49:20):
I've got nothing left.

Jordan (49:21):
You have no feelings left and like you know and to
build you up. Which is making mefeel worse.

Kevin (49:30):
Your feedback was good.
We moved quickly based on yourfeedback, sent it off to the
printer and ordered it. And Iasked Alban I said, should we
even show it to Jordan? And hesaid, Are you going to change
it? I said no. And he said,Well, then don't show her.

Alban (49:44):
That's pretty good advice.

Jordan (49:46):
It's solid. Just don't, don't bring her into it.

Alban (49:50):
There's two types of feedback. One is, hey, I'm ready
to make big changes to this. Letme know what you truly think.
Another type of feedback Is thispretty much has to go out right
now. And I don't feel 100%. Soif you were to tell me something
nice about it, that'd be cool.
But what I get myself intotrouble is when I'm in group

(50:11):
two, and I'm like, Kevin, whatdo you think about this? And
he's like, do you do a lotbetter than this? This kind of
stinks. No, we don't have timeto do that. He's like, okay,
then why are you asking me?
Like, we don't have time. Idon't know what to say. You just
want me to say this looks good.
Yeah, it looks good, dude.

Kevin (50:29):
Yeah, I mean, sometimes you're trying to do the best
work of your life. And sometimesyou're trying to make a slight
improvement over what you have,even though it's not the best.
And we were we were there. Wewere trying to get a slight
improvement. So it's fine. WhatI showed last week was a rough
concept of a rough idea. AndJordan said, stop pursuing that
idea. Fair enough. We still hadthree days till it had to go to

(50:52):
the printer. So a new concept?
Yeah, yeah, a new concept cametogether. And I showed Alvin and
he's like, it's better than wehave now. So let's go. Have you
guys started thinking anybodylooked at our show schedule? And
see if we're supposed to berecording the week that we're
doing the or work retreat?

Jordan (51:09):
Yeah. So we're recording to stay. Here's the thing is we
are supposed to record nextweek?

Kevin (51:16):
Well, I'm just wondering if we are if we're on the work
retreat while we're supposed torecord. I wonder if that gives
us an opportunity to do like aremote show.

Alban (51:23):
We could also do on a podcast movement. Yeah. Live
show. Yeah.

Kevin (51:26):
Let's look at the calendar quick. Let's see,
because we could meet somebodyelse there, maybe interview him
having a guest on the show.

Alban (51:32):
I like that idea. I did that with POD land. We went and
recorded the James and Sam. Andit was nice to be able to be at
the conference and in persondoing a podcast recording it
much better than doing the Zoomcalls, or Riverside calls. Like
I love that this technologyexists. But it's

Kevin (51:50):
tough. Oh, I got an idea.
What's the idea? I'm so excitedabout it. All right. At this pop
up party that we have, we set upa little recording area. And we
do like speed podcasting. Soanybody who comes to our pop up
party can sit down in the speedpodcasting, and we'll record to
do three to five minuteinterviews.

Jordan (52:11):
But you want to say I mean, also we're talking about
like a pop up party in a publicspace. I'm not editing our
ambient restaurant noise.

Alban (52:21):
I think you have to accept the restaurant noise is
part of the charm. I don't knowif I want the is James have got
podcast about Jane podcast. It'slike a talk about you know,
dating, relationships, politics.
Yeah, we're talking. You'relike, Oh my this why we brought
up with this.

Kevin (52:38):
And I think what you want you want to ask them questions
about what they're learning atPodcast Movement. Like, what's
your best takeaway from today?
What was the best talk thatyou're Yeah, who's the best?

Alban (52:47):
What's the number one thing first Podcast Movement?

Kevin (52:49):
Or how many you've been to? Why do you keep coming back?
Why is this first one? How longhave you been podcasting stuff?
Like,

Jordan (52:54):
oh, so it's not gonna be like a montage reel of like,
podcasters being like, oh, yeah,I just went to this panel is
really cool. Like, it's notgonna be like that.

Kevin (53:03):
You don't ask all the people all the questions you
asked one person the question,

Alban (53:07):
Jordan, I loved it. You talked about how hurt Kevin was
and how hard is it? And then assoon as the idea came out, she
was like, this idea is garbage.
Oh my gosh, terrible.

Kevin (53:18):
I'm not gonna listen to that. Jordan so concerned about
my feelings. Is there like abook that teaches somebody about
like the safe space that'screated around brainstorming?
Because I would like to orderthat for Jordan?

Alban (53:33):
I would like for other people on this call to read that
as well

Kevin (53:36):
get that all right. Well,

Jordan (53:38):
I love that journey for you but maybe not

Kevin (53:42):
my journey is not your journey Well, the pop up party
is still happening.

Alban (53:48):
Oh yeah. Kevin and I are going to go rogue record like a
few minutes get it in and we'rejust going to tack it on to the
end of the episode of the postshow is going to be the pop up
party.

Kevin (53:57):
We're bringing a recorder with us we're gonna do it

Jordan (54:02):
I think it's cool to have like cool people on that
like actually have somethinglike really interesting to say,

Kevin (54:09):
Oh, you're gonna get some hate.

Alban (54:11):
I'll be honest, it's always bugged me Kevin that like
Travis and Jordan they have likecomplete immunity? We're on the
line all the time. They see whatthey want and they go number he
could delete or they were yourecord themselves. I know Travis
did it, I don't know if Jordansdone that, record, splice it in.
We're we're on the line. We saysomething stupid. Guaranteed

(54:32):
it's getting locked into theepisode.

Jordan (54:34):
I actually did try to do that once because I misspoke
about something. But the thingis, is that like the audio
quality, recording intoRiverside is different than the
audio quality of recordingdirectly into Audition, Adobe
Audition. Like it's just it's somuch cleaner and more crisp. So

(54:55):
it's like really obvious if I'mtalking and then like all of a
sudden like just the audioquality completely changes for
like two words and then itchanges again. I tried to fix
something, but it soundedstupid. I was like forget it. So
you have to worry about thatwith me.

Alban (55:11):
But the reason is not that you don't have editor
immunity. It's that when youtried to do it, you went, Oh, I
don't actually sound muchbetter. The audio quality is a
little obvious. So then youbacked off.

Jordan (55:23):
It was just it was like a stupid thing that I like,
couldn't fix. And I think Iended up just deleting the
sentence altogether. It was itwas like something like that
just because it wasn't

Alban (55:32):
Case in point!

Jordan (55:33):
I delete out your stupid stuff all the time. Come on.

Kevin (55:36):
Yeah, that's true.

Alban (55:38):
No, I've listened to these episodes. Most of the
stuff I've saying is