Discover Your Favorite Podcast's Favorite Podcasts

Send us a text

We're discussing a powerful shift in podcast discovery: trusted recommendations from real people instead of algorithms. With Pocket Casts now surfacing creator-curated suggestions, listeners have a new way to uncover shows they’ll actually love. We share how this works behind the scenes and why podcaster-driven discovery offers something smarter and more authentic than charts and rankings ever could.

We also highlight a creative summer listening challenge for kids, reflect on Apple’s unexpected role in preserving open podcasting over the last 20 years, and share updates on remote recording reliability. 

Sound-Off Question: What is something you wish you knew when you started podcasting?

Contact Buzzcast

• Send us a text message
• Tweet us at @buzzcastpodcast, @albanbrooke, @kfinn, and @JordanPods

Thanks for listening and Keep Podcasting!

Episode Transcript

Alban (00:00):
Since our last episode, Kevin, you're top 2% in two
different areas.

Kevin (00:05):
I hear you don't want to be a top 1%-er.
That's a bad thing, but a top2%-er.
I think the jury's still out.
That could be good.

Alban (00:12):
We went and did iFly, which is like a simulated
skydiving, where they blow a tonof air up at you and you jump
into the room and fly around alittle bit.

Jordan (00:23):
It's like a giant leaf blower.

Alban (00:25):
A giant leaf blower.
A giant leaf blower and theinstructor was very impressed.
Kevin, you jumped in.
You just looked like you'refloating in the air and he was
like you're top 5%.
And Kevin's like whoa, he goesno top 2%.
You got upgraded from 5% to 2%as soon as he showed us the QR
code for the tip jar.
This is awesome.

(00:48):
But you also made top 2%.
You got upgraded in yourpickleball score.

Kevin (00:59):
Yeah, that's the one I'm really excited about.
I don't imagine I'm going to bespending a lot of my free time
doing indoor skydiving, eventhough I do show some, well, I
should say a lot of potentialright, and there's a path I
could take.
But I'm do show some well, Ishould say, a lot of potential
right, and it's a path I couldtake.
But I'm going to pass on that.
I'm going to continue to investin my pickleballing.
I play in a ladder league onTuesday nights, which is tonight
, and I just got the ratingstoday for where we're all seated
for the ladder league tonightand I got my first 4.0 rating,

(01:20):
which in the pickleball worldit's kind of a big deal.

Jordan (01:23):
Is it like martial arts, where you like get a different
colored belt every time you likeupgrade?

Alban (01:27):
Or different headband.

Kevin (01:32):
We should do.
We should do headbands.
That's a great idea.
Your DUPR, I don't even knowwhat that stands for, but it's
D- U-P-R, gets adjusted basedon, like how many games you play
, who you play against, what thescore is of the game and their
ratings and your ratings, and soevery Tuesday I play in this
league and it's a bunch of Ithink three, seven, five to four

(01:52):
, two, fives or four fivesthere's definitely a four or
five in the group and based on,like I said, the score, it
updates.

Jordan (01:59):
Oh, like chess.

Alban (02:00):
Yeah, it's like an ELO rating.

Jordan (02:01):
Oh okay.

Kevin (02:02):
I'm not familiar with chess, but I'd probably be top
2% in that.
But I'm not

Jordan (02:06):
Yeah, first try, you'll beat the grandmaster.

Kevin (02:10):
Yeah, so I'm excited I'm going into tonight's match as a
official.
On their scorecard anyway,official 4.0 player, so I got to
bring my game tonight.

Alban (02:18):
All right.
Well, you'll have to cue us inon on how it goes.

Kevin (02:21):
Yeah, I'm probably going to have the worst night of my
life at pickleball.

Jordan (02:25):
That's what it's like when you like play Halo online.
As soon as you start going upinto the higher rankings, you
just get demolished. And thenthe second you get like lowered
again after getting your buttkicked, you just destroy
everything.
There's just such like a weirdbalance when you're in between
like different rankings ofthings, like when you level up,
it's a different tier.

Kevin (02:45):
Yeah, you know, there's this thing in baseball, baseball
being a very old sport with avery rich history, and there's
been a lot of like,superstitions and just
courtesies that have developedover time.
I think these things take a lotof time to develop.
They have not developed like,as you said, jordan in video
gaming.
They've not developed like, asyou said, Jordan in video gaming
.
They've not developed inpickleball.

(03:05):
And that is like when somebodyis doing well, somebody's having
the game of their life inbaseball, everyone knows you
don't call them out on it, youdon't be like oh, my gosh you're
on fire you're having the gameof your life.
You know it's a sixth inning andyou've got a no hitter going.
That would never happen inbaseball.
Everybody knows like you.
Just respect them.
You give them their space.
They know.
They know what's happening.
You don't say it out loud.

(03:26):
That's bad, juju.
That's going to get in theirhead like they don't want to
think about what's happening.
They just want to stay lockedin and keep going.
Yeah, in pickleball, thisdoesn't happen in video games.
Just the game itself calls youout like you're on a kill streak
.
You're like no, no, don't tellme that.

Alban (03:41):
Like, like you don't want people to tell you like good
shot.
When you make a good shot, Imean that's fine.

Kevin (03:47):
But I don't want anybody coming up to me like between
games and just being like you'replaying lights out.
This is the night of your lifeLike that stuff.
It happens all the time andyou're like no, no, no, no, no,

Alban (03:56):
Never happens to me.
People are like get it together, dude, dude, I'm sick of losing
.

Jordan (04:02):
Have you ever heard of the ironic process theory?

Kevin (04:10):
No, is this what I'm talking about?

Jordan (04:11):
I think this is related to it.
So I was listening to thispodcast this morning about the
game.
If you're a millennial, I'mreally sorry.
I just made you lose the game,but it's like a game that we all
played in like middle and highschool, where you lose the game
by thinking about the game.
Right, and it's based on,.
there was like a polar bearthought experiment and
Dostoevsky, in Ironic ProcessTheory, he would say like don't

(04:32):
think about the polar bear.
But by saying do not thinkabout the polar bear, you
immediately think about thepolar bear and then you get into
your head about it and then soyou basically fail thinking
about the polar bear, and so Ithink, it's a very similar thing
where, if anyone mentions thatyou're winning the game, you're
just like and it puts you into,it, puts you in your head Right

Kevin (04:53):
I did a.
I did a motorcycle ridingcourse out in Colorado off-road
motorcycle riding classes and wewere all connected, we had
microphones and earpieces in ourhelmets and we're following
instructors down paths andinevitably the instructor's like
don't look at the terrain, lookwhere you want to go.
And so they'd be right ahead ofme and they'd be coming around
a corner and they'd be like okay, big boulder right in the
center of the trail, don't lookat the boulder, don't look at

(05:14):
the boulder.
I'm like what you just said Bigboulder right in the middle of
the trail.
Don't look at the boulder.
Where am I going to look?
I'm going to look at theboulder and the second I look at
the boulder.
The bike goes right into theboulder.
It's like, just don't say it.
All you have to say is okayaround the bend, stay left.
That's all you need to say.
Then I would have looked left,I would have gone left.
But yeah, once you say, don'tdo something, that's 100% going

(05:37):
to do that.

Jordan (05:38):
Thousand percent All right.

Alban (05:40):
Let's ironically have the best podcast recording of our
lives.

Kevin (05:43):
Jordan's on fire.

Jordan (05:44):
Oh no

Alban (05:46):
Wait, how do you do this?
Opposite Jordan, we say don'thave a bad podcast or do have a
bad

Jordan (05:51):
You just don't bring up the podcast.

Alban (05:53):
Oh, we're done.

Jordan (06:01):
Welcome back to Buzzcast , a podcast about all things
podcasting from the people atBuzzsprout.
All right, so let's kick thingsoff with another fantastic
Pocket Casts update.
So Pocket Casts has added podroll recommendations and it
looks like they added anotherpodcast discovery tool where
they put out like podcastrecommendations.

(06:23):
They said we're rolling outpodcast recommendations to help
you discover your next favoriteshow without even trying, and
then they've also added supportfor Podroll so your favorite
podcast can also recommend showsthey think you'll love.

Alban (06:35):
Yeah, I love this.
So you scroll down, you clickthis, you might like tab and for
every podcast, like Buzzcast,it's got a whole list of shows
you may like and they're goingto find shows that they think
are similar that you would enjoy.
But if the podcaster hasrecommended other podcasts, we
do that through our pod role.
Those are the recommendationsthat show up at top.

(06:56):
So they're utilizing this openstandard to populate all these
recommendations.
But if you don't have them,they're going to put good shows
there as well.
So I went and looked at oursand it's all the shows that we
have in our pod role.
So go check them out,especially if you're on pocket
casts.

Kevin (07:12):
I think this is a really nice implementation.
They recognized that not a tonof shows right now have pod
roles, and so they aresupplementing it with their own
recommendations.
They have their own mechanism.
I mean probably some sort ofalgorithm that would recommend
shows just based on other showsthat you've listened to, that
you're following in Pocket Cast.
So your show might have showslisted under the you might like

(07:36):
button, but you get to controlthem and you might not recognize
that.
You do get to control them andso if you are a Buzzsprout
podcaster, you can log intoBuzzsprout, you can go to
podcast info pod role and youcan quickly search for the shows
that you like and you want torecommend and you can add them.
If you add them there, we willadd them to your RSS feed and
then, once it updates it mighttake a day or two for Pocket

(07:57):
Cast to update, but once theyingest that information, then
when you tap on you might like,there's a little subhead that
will show up and it will sayrecommended shows by the creator
and that's how you can tell thedifference.
So if you're looking at variousshows and pocket casts, almost
all of them will have somethingunder the you might like section
, but what you're looking for isthat little subhead that says

(08:18):
recommended by the creator,which is nice, because now you
know these are coming directlyfrom the podcaster themselves,
so, like if I look at podcasting2.0, I tap on, you might like.
I see, oh, disappointing,buzzcast isn't here.
I see they are recommending, uh, the pod news, weekly review
this week in bitcoin, the noagenda show, the no media show

(08:40):
and field recording podcast bycsB.
Okay, and I'm sure next weekBuzzcast will probably be on
that list as well.

Jordan (08:47):
Better be.

Kevin (08:48):
If I go to, let me pull up the pod news weekly review.
You might like Great.
I see the subhead recommendedshows by the creator.
They are recommending thefuture of podcasting.
Buzzcast number two All right,we think that'd be number one.
We're the main sponsor, that'sall right.
In and around podcasting,podcasting 2.0 and practice.

(09:10):
Uh, that was the Claire WaiteBrown show.
Yeah, podcasting 2.0 pod news.
Daily pod news extra and newpodcasts.

Alban (09:13):
Kevin's discovered a new podcast discovery tool to grow
the podcast and that'scomplaining about our friends so
that they put us in their podroles.

Jordan (09:22):
It's like the MySpace top eight.
It's like why am I not underMySpace?
It is the MySpace top eight wewant to be in your fade five.

Alban (09:29):
Oh, man, you just have to tell people like no, no, no,
it's not in an order.
Oh, is it an order that I'mnumber two?
Why'd I move to?

Kevin (09:35):
number two.
Oh yeah, it's definitely in anorder you can reorder them right
inside of Buzzsprout.

Jordan (09:40):
It's super easy Click.
I actually have a funny storyabout pod roles.
So I stumbled upon this podcastand it's a like fiction podcast
and it was so well produced.
I was like man, this is reallygood.
And then I saw that they have apod role and this is Afterlight
Fictions with Jonathan Marsh.
And I look at this pod role andlisted in the pod role is

(10:03):
dreamful, buzzcast, buzzsproutconversations and I was like
this is why this podcast is sogood.
Of course it totally checks out.

Alban (10:13):
Oh, that's so cool.

Jordan (10:14):
I know, I was so excited .

Alban (10:16):
It'd be nice if we could find when people recommended
your show and like send peoplean email or notification and say
, hey, you just were recommendedby another podcaster.

Kevin (10:24):
Oh, I would love that I think we definitely can do that
and my brain is starting to cookin that direction now because
we finally have.
You know, I don't want to takeanything away from the smaller
apps, but it shifts prioritiesright when a bigger podcasting
app implements a new feature,that is super exciting.
But again, I don't want to takeanything away from the smaller
guys, because the smallerplayers that implemented this
stuff first.

(10:45):
They are part of thegroundswell and the momentum,
moving and doing important work.
And so apps like TrueFans andapps like I don't know if
Fountain ever did it, butCastomatic and Podfriend I love
you guys and I'm super thankfulfor all the work that you're
doing and you're pushing andshowing and modeling how this
stuff can play out in real life.

(11:06):
And then I think that's a bigpart of what takes a larger
company like Automatic that nowruns Pocket Cast and says, oh
look, we have all these examplesof how it could work and we
should be doing this stuff onour app too.
So congratulations to PocketCast for doing it, but thank you
so much to all the othersmaller apps that paved the way
for this big change doing it.
But thank you so much to allthe other smaller apps that

(11:26):
paved the way for this bigchange.
I think it's super important andexciting that open podcasting
has now brought our first sortof real contribution to podcast
discovery and we brought it in away that is not reliant on an
algorithm.
It's not like the PSP group gottogether and said, hey, here's
how we should recommend podcastsand here's the algorithm that
you should use and here's theweighting factors and the levers
that you can pull to decidewhich podcast you're going to

(11:48):
recommend.
We just solved it as simply aspossible, which is saying, hey,
if you're a podcaster, you'reprobably into podcasting and you
probably have other shows thatyou really like and you, as a
human, might want to recommendthose to the humans who like
your show.
And here's a very simple way todo it and that is now like
mainstream might be a bit of astretch, but we know that
Spotify and Apple podcaststhey're kind of the two main

(12:11):
mainstream apps.
But in terms of smallerthird-party podcast listening
apps for people who are reallyinto podcasting and go out and
get like the non-default app forlistening to podcasts, pocket
Cast is one of the biggest weknow.
Overcast is another big one and, like I said before, all the
smaller ones that are doinglaying a lot of this groundwork
and pushing the bigger apps inthis direction.

(12:32):
They're all growing and so I'mexcited about that.
But this is exciting.
When was the last time we sawsomething happen on the internet
that was like a low-techhuman-to-human solution that a
big company actually picked upand implemented?

Jordan (12:46):
Yeah.

Kevin (12:46):
Right.
It just doesn't happen anymore.
Like, everything now isalgorithms and AI and oh, we've
got the best podcastrecommendations and yeah, yeah.
Then everyone's trying toreverse engineer the algorithm
and create content that plays tothe algorithm and all that kind
of stuff.
This is the opposite of that.
This is create a good show,maybe connect with people in
real life, go to podcastconferences and meet people, and

(13:09):
if you do all that really well,they might add you to their pod
role.
And if you get added to theirpod role, you might start
picking up another listener here, another listener there, more
and more and more, and I reallyhope that this at least opens
the interest on, like the Appleside, to this idea that you guys
do have a good algorithm forrecommending shows.
There's the you might also likesection in, like a now playing

(13:29):
screen at the bottom or whenyou're browsing through shows,
they recommend other things.
Why not take the pod role andat least integrate that into
some of those suggestions?
Am I, am I too excited aboutthis new idea?
Are you guys joining me in myexcitement?

Alban (13:41):
I'm with it.
I love it.
I think it's funny that at thesame time, we've got YouTube and
Spotify both touting their newalgorithmic recommendation
engines, and YouTube's going todo a bunch of rankings and say
here's the weekly top podcastshows.
Spotify is going to try to giveyou like a personalized podcast
recommendation page, andthere's something about like

(14:05):
when you find a thing on yourown and it was recommended by a
source or a friend or anotherpodcast, something that you
trust and you connected with,that it feels much more
serendipitous and it's fun.
It's fun to be like.
I am reading some book seriesnow and I really enjoy it, but I
got into it because of mybrother and so now every time
there's a funny part in the bookI can reach out to him.

(14:26):
The book is good on its own,but the fun thing about it is
now that my brother and I areconnecting over something that
we both enjoy.
Yeah, and that's the promise oflike web 1.0.
And now we're on to thisalgorithmic world where what are
the weekly top shows?
I mean, it's probably going tobe about the 10 same shows.

(14:47):
It's going to be number oneRogan.
Number two Call Her Daddy.
Number three New Heights.
Number four, my Favorite,murder.
It's going to be the same 10.
And it's just going to promotethe top 0.1% of shows.
That are all good.
They're well-done shows, theyget good engagement.
That's why they're up there.

(15:09):
But there's something fun aboutjust connecting with something
that's not always the mostpolished, the most perfect thing
.
It's something that feels likeit was made for you and you
found it through like aninteresting way, and so it was
what was fun about blog roles,it's what's fun about pod roles,
and I love that it's nowgetting implemented in more and
more places.

Jordan (15:24):
Of course, true to form Spotify.
When they announced their newdiscovery tools, one of the
things that they mentioned wascross content links, and so
creators can now link to likeother podcasts and stuff like
that, and it's just like.
Of course, it has to be done intheir platform.
They can't just like pull it infrom the RSS feed.
It's like you're making morework for yourselves.

Kevin (15:45):
What they're making more work for ourselves, yeah.

Jordan (15:47):
They're making more work for everyone.
Everyone has more work, juststop.

Alban (15:51):
Well, it's the business model is fighting the technology
.
The technology is do it onceand it goes out there for
everybody and it's free and it'seasy to get and grab, and the
business model is you've got toconvince people to bring free
content to Spotify so that wedon't keep getting these painful
negotiations with the recordstudios.

(16:11):
So I understand it.
It just is not a great fit.
But what is a great fit is podrolls and this is fun, and I
think we need to go back andlook at our shows that we're
recommending, make sure werecommend all of them and
they're all still putting outnew stuff, because now these are
going to have a lot morevisibility than they did a few
months ago.

Kevin (16:29):
Yeah, and let me end on two quick notes.
One, don't get hung up on theterm pod role.
A lot of people don't like it,I get it.
It is the silly throwback toblog roles.
That's where it came from,that's where the idea came from,
so we kind of wanted to payhomage to that.
Technically, the people whowere helping shape the spec
right and all cards on the table.
I was a big part of that, so Ikind of got a big say in

(16:54):
choosing the name.
It's a dumb name, I get it, butI like playing paying homage to
old things, and especially whenthey heavily influence the new
thing.
But don't get hung up on that.
Recognize what it is.
It is a way for you torecommend podcasts to your
listening audience.
Okay, so I really love thepocket cast implementation,
which is you might like, you tapthat and you see the shows you
might like, even in buzzsproutitself.
I think we do call it pod role,but we then explain exactly
what it is.
It's a way for you to recommendshows to anybody who's

(17:16):
listening to your podcast.
All right, so that out of theway.
I will then say this it is nowmore important than ever for you
, as a podcaster to have a podrole.
We pushed this when we rolledit out and then we've continued
to mention it from time to timeon this show.
We mentioned in our newsletterour educational materials and
all that kind of stuff, but weneed to up the volume of that

(17:36):
now, because now there is a appthat across the board for
Buzzsprout accounts for 1% oftotal plays that happen through
the Buzzsprout network, and fora lot of shows it's 2%, 3%, 4%,
5%, and so it's very importantfor every show to be
recommending whatever you'relistening to, whatever you think
your audience might beinterested.
Take the five minutes, log intoBuzzsprout, click on podcast

(17:59):
info, pod roll, find your showsthat you want to recommend, put
them in the order that you like.
It doesn't take a lot of time,but I'm hoping that this can
start to get a lot of momentumand that people get excited
about finding new podcasts thisway.
Right, the discoverabilityengine doesn't work if there's
no recommendations out there,and these recommendations are
not driven by an algorithm,they're driven by humans.

(18:20):
So humans who are listening tothis, I'm telling you go and do
the human work.
It takes very quick, but it'sreally important, and I know
like I use Pocket Cast a lot.
Most of the podcasts I listento I listen to in Pocket Cast.
I'm going to be tapping intothose shows now and I'm going to
seeing what they recommend.
I'm going to be looking forthat little sub tab that says
these are recommended by theshow's creators.
If I don't see it, I don't carewhat the recommendations are,

(18:43):
but if I do see it, I'm going topay a lot of attention and they
give you a very quick way whenthey show you that list of
podcasts that the podcastcreators are recommending.
It's one tap to follow thoseshows, and so I think it could
be a great way for indiepodcasters to promote other
podcasts they like and hopefullyyour shows get put on other
people's pod roles and you startpicking up followers.
But it starts at the podcasters.

(19:03):
We have to make therecommendations.
So please, if you're listeningaction item, pause the show
right now.
Log into Buzzsprout.
You can do it in the mobile apptoo.
Super fast in the mobile app.

Jordan (19:17):
So get it done, Okay.
So this next story that I wantto talk about.
I'm kind of like, in my own way, hoping that it's an update to
our creative marketing ideas,because I noticed that some
podcasters that I know to be atleast in the past Buzzcast
listeners and Buzzsproutpodcasters are participating in
a summer listening challenge Imight accidentally say summer

(19:39):
reading challenge.
Alban, you might be in the sameboat.
We both have background inlibraries, and libraries always
do a summer reading challengeevery summer.
I was always in charge of that.
I was always handing outtickets and prizes to the kids
when they turn in their sheets.
Alban, do you remember this?

Alban (19:56):
No, I was.
I was over in like themultimedia area and they mostly
just had me shelving books, so Iwasn't doing anything fun.

Jordan (20:04):
Yeah, I was.
I was always with the kiddos,so this really struck a chord
with me and it made me just veryexcited about gamifying,
listening to podcasts and Ithink this is a really cool
thing.
So it's eight children'spodcasters.
So it's like what If World,koala, shine Stoop, kids Stories
, girl Tales, dork Tales, storyTime, culture, kids by kids, for

(20:24):
kids, and the weekly roar, andwhat they have posted is a
really simple PDF tracker sheetfor parents to print out and as
kids listen to two episodes ofthese podcasts, of these eight
podcasts, so it's 16 episodestotal throughout the summer.
Then they get to like check itoff or put a sticker on it and

(20:47):
then the parents scan it andthey send it in and if they
complete listening to allepisodes, then they get a video
from the podcast host sent tothem.

Alban (20:59):
Oh fun.

Jordan (21:00):
I know it's not so fun, it's almost like a cameo, but I
just was thinking.
I was like man, there's a fewpodcasts that I know of my kids
like listen to it and I likewrote in and the they received a
video, even if it was just ahey, congrats, you finished this
.
You know, saying something inlike a character voice, they
would lose their minds.
They'd be so excited.

Alban (21:20):
That's fine.
I mean, podcasts are a greatway to take a little bit of
break from screen time and notjust sit there and look at the
iPad for a whole summer.
Keep learning.
And I love that it's eightpodcasters all got together.
They all have this commoninterest and they started it off
when I was little.
We used to do book it, where ifyou write a book, pizza Hut

(21:40):
would give you a coupon for apersonal pan pizza, and those
are, to this day, the bestpizzas I ever had, because it
was like you got your bucket.
Everyone went together.
You got a personal pan pizza.
You could pick it was cheese orpepperoni and it was like, oh,
what a huge win, and so I lovethat.
Like podcasters are doingsomething like this.

Jordan (22:00):
You know what?
This is actually another usefor a pod role.
It'd be so cool if they wouldadd the other podcasts that are
doing the summer listeningprogram to their pod role.

Kevin (22:07):
Yeah, yeah, they definitely should.
I noticed you posted ascreenshot from their message
for grownups into our outlinetoday and I just read it.
That first sentence.
I love this.
This is such a great way todescribe podcasts.
It says podcasts are ascreen-free way to boost
listening skills, sparkcuriosity and make learning fun
anytime, anywhere.
And in this currentprofessional podcasting space

(22:32):
where there's a lot of chatterabout, do we need to move into
video podcasting and yada, yada,yada.

Alban (22:38):
Because the big issue is we don't have enough screen time
.
I've been saying that toeverybody.
I know I'm like we're notlooking at our screens enough.
You know there's way too muchoutdoor time, way too dangerous.
We got to be locked in on thescreens.

Kevin (22:53):
This message is if we're not careful, in a couple of
years this message might notring true anymore.

Jordan (22:59):
Yeah.

Kevin (22:59):
Like right now I read this and I'm like, yes, this is
a great description of podcastsand why podcasts are such a
healthy thing for young kids toengage in, especially as a fun
summer challenge, right, yeah.
But if people start associatingthe word podcast with watching
a video on a device, then thismessage for grownups isn't going

(23:21):
to work anymore.
If a mom reads this five yearsfrom now and in her mind she
just thinks, oh, podcast, thatjust means YouTube watching or
Spotify watching or somethingit's going to be like what.
This doesn't make any sense.
I don't want my kids justwatching more TV, just on a
smaller screen, which might bebig for the summer reading
challenges out there, but itwouldn't be good for the summer

(23:42):
listening challenges and we needmore summer listening
challenges, and so I love this.
They get podcasting, theyunderstand why it's special and
it's the right messaging for thegrownups.
But us in the professionalpodcasting space like, take note
, this is what's great aboutpodcasting, let's not give it up
.

Jordan (23:58):
Yeah, and if you want your kids to participate in the
summer listening challenge, orif you are a kid and you want to
participate, I'll put a link inthe show notes to Jonathan from
Dark Tale Storytime's webpage.

Alban (24:13):
So, Kevin, you're talking about what does podcasting look
like in five years?
And, at the same time, I'mthinking about what did
podcasting look like 20 yearsago?
Look like 20 years ago.
We're coming up on WWDC, whichis like when Apple announces all
their software updates and whatthey're planning on doing for
the next year.
And 20 years ago in June, it'sprobably going to be passed in

(24:34):
the next few weeks is when SteveJobs got on stage and said
iTunes, like four, we're goingto add this new thing.
It's like radio for your iPodand it's called podcasts and
they're awesome.
And he played a little bit ofAdam Curry cussing at his
computer.

Kevin (24:55):
Of all the rehearsing and stuff that we always heard
about Steve Jobs doing before akeynote.
I don't know how that clip madeit into the live presentation.

Jordan (25:03):
Wait, this actually happened.

Alban (25:04):
Oh, Adam Curry's convinced it was intentional.
You think it was intentional?

Kevin (25:08):
Maybe it was that's right .

Alban (25:10):
Adam says, oh, I know for a fact, it was intentional, not
like he's highly confidentbecause it's so perfect.
He goes oh, let's play thispodcast.
And he pulls up Adam Curry'spodcast and he double clicks on
an episode and it starts andhe's like I'm having a effing
bad day because of my Maccomputer keeps crashing on me.

(25:30):
And he's like okay, let's moveon.

Kevin (25:32):
Yeah, it's a dig on Macs.

Jordan (25:34):
Oh, that's funny.

Alban (25:35):
But 20 years ago, and so it kind of got me thinking about
you know what the last 20 yearsof podcasting has been like,
especially with in the age ofApple having a big hand in
podcasting.
As soon as they launched it waslike a day later millions of
people had subscribed to theirfirst podcast.

(25:56):
And there's all these pressreleases from like two days
after they announced it abouthow big it was, and Adam's
quoted in all of those.
And then it just grows yearafter year.
You see big shows like theRicky Gervais show launched
right after Adam Carolla'spodcast becomes the biggest
podcast ever at some point afterthat.

(26:17):
And I was just thinking backthrough this history and Apple's
role in it and it's just likeit's so surprising.
You know we think of how hardit is to convince big companies
to adopt podcasting in an openway.
We're really excited now thatPodRoll is getting some adoption
, but it's pretty hard toconvince.

(26:37):
You know, youtubes andSpotify's and Facebook's and
Amazon the big companies of theworld hey, this thing called
podcasting is cool.
Part of what's cool about it isthat you don't control it.
It's kind of open and free.
I still just think it's likesuch happenstance and luck that
Steve Jobs found these and goesman, this is cool, and it is

(26:59):
cool the way it's implemented.
Let's just take it as it is,rather than saying Apple needs
to own and control all ofpodcasting for us to ever add it
to iTunes.

Kevin (27:09):
Yeah, and like embracing it the way it was working Right.

Jordan (27:12):
Yeah.

Kevin (27:12):
To the point that you're making, albin.
It's very counterintuitive andI wonder if that was the
long-term plan, like I wonder ifhe was thinking let's implement
it as it's currently working.
It's the easiest way to seewhat the interest level is and
to see how many people engage inthis type of content once we
add it to iTunes and if itstarts picking up, maybe we'll

(27:33):
make a different move or go adifferent direction.
But I don't know that that'sreally what he was thinking,
because he lived for many yearspast that and podcast listening
became a pretty big thing and atany point in time there was
certainly an opportunity forApple to say we are going to
make it easier for people tolaunch podcasts into iTunes.
And there were companies thatwere popping up, buzzsprout

(27:55):
being one of them, that weresolving that problem, because it
was definitely a problem.
And now Apple is not afraid ofBuzzsprout and they're not
afraid of Libsyn and they're notafraid of Blueberry and a few
other people that were poppingup.
And so it's a little bitpuzzling that Apple didn't just
say we're just going to squashBuzzsprout and Libsyn and
Blueberry and we're going to ownpodcasting, we're going to

(28:17):
launch our own podcasting host.
We're going to do it.
We're going to undercut them onprice and we're going to overdo
the quality because we've got10,000 engineers and they've got
four.
They could have done it.
We probably would have lost,but they never did, and I don't
know if it was intentional ornot.
Apple doesn't talk about stufflike this, and who would you
even talk to anymore?
Right, like cause it's.
It's a.
It's a big, distributed company, but for whatever reason, this

(28:38):
little piece of the internetremains open and there's no real
gatekeeper.
It's still the self-publishingmodel to this day.
There are some movements in adifferent direction.
Youtube is a differentdirection.
Youtube is like we're going towin the video space and if you
want to do video online, we'regoing to own it, and so the only
real way to get any traction oraudience around online video is

(28:59):
basically to concede to YouTubeand their game, their rules,
their structure, theiralgorithms, their everything,
their structure, theiralgorithms, their everything.
Might not always have to belike that, but that's where it
is kind of today.
But audio even though you haveSpotify and YouTube both taking
some level of interest in space,it's still largely uncontrolled
.

Alban (29:19):
And I think that that's because there was a 12-year
period where it was pretty muchiTunes.
It was iTunes and third partyapps, right.

Kevin (29:27):
And for whatever reason, they've resisted the temptation
to control it, to own it.

Alban (29:31):
Yeah, in fact, right before I started working at
Buzzsprout, was when Apple saidyou know, we really love this
thing called podcasts and we'regoing to add something new.
We're going to make a podcastapp for the iPhone.
And they added that.
And then, in 2014, they made ita default app on everyone's
phone.
And so 2014, the first timeever, everybody starts getting

(29:52):
this purple app on their phoneand clicking it and going what's
this?

Jordan (29:55):
Yeah.

Alban (29:56):
And checking out Apple podcasts for the first time,
downloading shows, and I don'tthink it's a coincidence that
that happened and that'sannounced I guess it's this time
in 2014.
So it would have been out inlike September, october.
And do you know what happensright after that?

Jordan (30:11):
No.

Alban (30:12):
Is Serial.

Jordan (30:13):
Oh yeah.

Alban (30:13):
Serial launches at the end of 2014.
I would not be surprised.
I think it would be cool to goback and look at some data,
maybe if Serial knew where thisplace came from.
But my guess is it had thiscultural moment and for a lot of
people it was the first podcastthey ever listened to, and I
think if we don't have ApplePodcasts pre-installed on tons

(30:33):
of devices, it would have beenso much harder for it to break
in to the mainstream of everyonetalking about this show.
I think a lot of people they'relike oh, that app on my phone.
So much easier to click itrather than go and try to set
something up and downloadepisodes and then move them over
from iTunes and do this wholething.
Instead, they were just able toclick it, download and start

(30:57):
listening to what turned out tobe an incredible show.
20 years later, and how manythings Apple has done that I did
not love, from the butterflykeyboards to taking a big
percentage of apps, payments ormagic mouse charging the
keyboard switching.
The only lightning cable I havein the whole house is this one

(31:20):
plugged into my keyboard.
Whatever it may be, this is onethat I just feel so grateful
for.
It's a whole area of the webthat I think there was a 12-year
period where Apple could havejust on their own said this is
ours, now we're taking it, andwe could have all fought it.
But it would have been verypainful and Apple at least could

(31:41):
have stymied the growth of openpodcasting quite a bit.
And it's just such a specialarea of the web and I just feel
I guess I'm saying I feelgrateful that Apple was a part
of this and, for whatever reason, decided to say hey, we're
going to promote it, we're goingto highlight it in our apps,
but we don't have to control it.
We're going to let the creatorshave much more control in this

(32:04):
area than they have almostanywhere else.

Kevin (32:07):
Yeah, I'll speak a little bit about my personal
experience with interacting withsome people who work on the
Apple podcast team and, at thesame time, try to address some
of the criticisms of Apple overthe years.
And that is when Apple decidedto bring podcasts into iTunes.
They did launch a new namespacefor podcasting which was a
supplement to the RSS 2.0 spec,and the criticism around that

(32:31):
was that Apple was dictatingwhat lives in a podcast feed and
what doesn't.
And they all have this iTunesnamespace and everyone has to
follow these rules.
And I think the biggestcriticism is that that largely
went unchanged for years andyears and years.
There was no innovation, therewas no adding of anything.
When the podcast namespaceproject launched, that was in

(32:52):
response to that was that wehave sort of this benevolent
dictator, but the dictator's not.
While they're not doinganything bad, they're also not
doing anything good to move thespace forward, you know, except
for the fact that they'releaving it open, which is a
really good thing, but they'renot helping to advance it or
whatever, and so that's some ofthe criticism that they've had.
I will say that I think that,again, this is just my

(33:13):
experience and not necessarilythe viewpoint of Buzzsprout or
anything.
So general disclaimers out ofthe way.
Everyone who I've everinteracted with who works on the
Apple podcasting team.
What comes through is thatthese people care and love the
podcasting space.
They care about podcasters,they care about creating a great
experience.
I always feel like they aredoing their absolute best to

(33:35):
curate the podcasting experiencethrough Apple perspective and
through their products, whileoperating within the
organization in which theyoperate.
So Apple is a huge corporation.
We all know this, if not thelargest, one of the largest in
the world.
There's a culture there, thereare rules, there are regulations
.
There are things that they bumpinto from time to time, like

(33:55):
fees on subscriptions and howyou're going to make payments,
and other podcasting apps thatare trying to get into the app
store have to play by the appstore rules, which is a
different team than the Applepodcasting team, and I think
they navigate this stuffbrilliantly.
I'm sure there are times whenpeople on the Apple podcast
teams are feeling thefrustration that is a result of

(34:18):
some of the criticisms that theyget, like does Apple not care
about creators?
Does Apple not care aboutdevelopers?
I'm sure they feel that sameway too, but they know that
there's a bigger vision, whichis they have this massive reach.
They have these hundreds ofmillions of devices that are out
in the world and, even thoughit might take them much longer
to roll something out liketranscripts or like
subscriptions and they have todo it the Apple way and it's not

(34:41):
gonna please everybody, there'sgonna be a lot of critics they
really do their best to sort ofto manage this tension between
we're operating within a hugecompany with a lot of
responsibility and legalregulations and the Apple way of
doing things, and we're alsotrying to promote this thing for
the open podcasting space andfor people who love podcasts and
people who love creatingpodcasts and are very

(35:02):
open-minded as opposed to silothinking.
I don't know how that happened,but it's this magical thing.
There are these just greatpeople of this small team that
work at Apple who manage thistension really well, never say
anything bad about the company,never criticize the ideas of the
open podcasting community,somehow manage all this tension
within their own little team andthen, slowly but surely, make

(35:24):
podcasting better on Appleplatforms.
And I think they're brilliant,they're nice and somehow, 20
years later, apple I think it'shard to point to anything that
they've done in the podcastingspace and say this was actively
harmful for open podcasting.
They just haven't done it.

Alban (35:40):
Yeah, I think the criticisms are oh, we got a top
2% world, we didn't get the top1%.
Oh, you know what would be coolIf they never tried to control
podcasting, but then they alsoimproved the namespace
collaboratively with all of us.
Yeah, I guess that would bebetter.
There's ways we could improveon it.
It's just every once in a whileI think I get a little bit

(36:01):
nostalgic and I thought about itwhen I was looking at this and
I was like this really is a veryfortunate way that it all
panned out, and whether it bejust Steve Jobs' vision or the
people who've worked at ApplePodcasts the last 20 years and
worked on this product, or acombination of all of it and
it's a very fortunate space tobe in and I do feel pretty

(36:23):
grateful where everybody else,including Buzzsprout who's
jumped into the podcasting gameall of us have a financial
incentive to be here.
Everybody else is as much, aswe're all helping the ecosystem
and we're all participating,whether it be Spotify or YouTube
or us or Libsyn or any othercompanies, we're all trying to
make money as well.
Apple has actively lost moneyon podcasting until they

(36:46):
launched Apple podcastsubscriptions.

Kevin (36:49):
Yeah, I'd push back on that.
I mean, the financialmotivation for them is that.
It's another reason for you touse an iPhone, right?
I think that's the big thinkingbehind making it a default app
is it's super simple to just tapthe purple icon and there's a
whole bunch of shows there thatyou probably like.
One of them and it's anotherreason I love my iPhone is that
podcast listening is so easy onthe iPhone.

(37:09):
So I do think they have afinancial reason.
But you're right, the teamdoesn't get to go back to Apple
corporate and say look how muchmoney we're bringing into the
Apple ecosystem.
It's super clear in thesefinancial reports that we're
making all this money, so weshould get to do this.
They don't get to do that, andso that again they have to
manage that tension and it'sprobably why things might take a

(37:29):
little bit longer, Like as thecorporation is figuring out.
Like if we invest in services,if we invest in hardware, if we,
you know, add this camerasystem to the new iPhone and if
we do the make the iPad, youknow, 15% lighter, we're going
to sell this many more, all thatkind of stuff.
The Apple podcast team doesn'thave that same type of leverage,
and so I'm not envious at allof the job that these people do,
but I'm just saying that Ithink they do a really good job

(37:52):
and they have open communicationwith people working in the
space and they show up topodcast events.
If you attend a podcast event,you might not ever notice it and
know that they're there.
They're not big, they're notflashy, they have meetings

Alban (38:02):
Except for the podcast show where they spoke.
They did speak.
Yeah, I feel like bummed that we didn't know they were
speaking, or else we could havetried to go out there.

Kevin (38:08):
Yeah, but I feel like a little bit of unnecessary
criticism around that Apple onlyhas closed door meetings and
stuff like that.
Yeah, but they have them andalmost anybody who works in the
space can get a time if you wantone.
There is another large companywho has recently started pushing
heavily into podcasting.
That doesn't operate that waythat you can't get an audience
with them.
And if you do want to have acandid discussion about open

(38:31):
technologies and what are youwilling to embrace or what are
you not it's just a differentvibe altogether At least Apple
will come sit with you face toface and say we can't comment on
that.
I hear your point here's acounterpoint but I can't say
anything more than that.
Like they tell you where thelines are and where the
boundaries are and again, I justthink it's.
I don't think it's necessarilyone culture is better than

(38:52):
another culture, I just thinkit's people.
And so if for nothing else, Ijust want to give my experience
with the Apple podcasting teamis I think they're stellar group
of people.

Jordan (39:05):
It's time for sound off.
Let's get into some of ourfan mail messages.
Alban, do you want to kickthings off with a couple of
responses to our subscriptions?

Alban (39:13):
Sure.
The first was from Alaska andthey said oh, I wish there was a
name your own price feature fordonations and subscriptions.
For donations, they can give upto $10.
Subscriptions For donationsthey can give up to $10.
Subscriptions they can add $20onto whatever the subscription
price is.
So here's the feedback thatyou'd like a little more
customization there.
So we always appreciate yourideas.

(39:35):
And then from Rhode Island.
They said I was hoping you weregoing to announce improvements
to the show supporter page,which they'd sent in some ideas
about.
We've got lots of ideas forboth of these and ways to
improve them.
So if you have ways that youwould use them specifically,
please feel free to reach out.
We might not read all of themon air, but it's always

(39:56):
interesting for us to hear howyou would use Buzzsprout
subscriptions or the supportpage.

Kevin (40:02):
We got a message from the Kitty Wink crew.
We'd love to hear your thoughts, specifically on subscription
models for kids content.
Our goal is to stay accessibleto all children, but we're also
looking for a sustainable way tointroduce a subscription-based
revenue stream.
Do you know any models thatwork particularly well for this
type of podcast?

Alban (40:19):
I would say early access.
Early access is a great way togive people a way to support the
show.
You know they get a realbenefit.
They get early access.
If you have kids, they'velistened to every episode.
They'll be excited to listen tothe ones that are behind the
paywall.
But then eventually it's freefor everybody and it's open for
everyone.
So you could put shows behindthat paywall for five days and

(40:42):
and then afterward it'savailable to all of your
listeners or your potentiallisteners, so everybody can get
it.
But there's a real benefit forpeople to upgrade and it helps,
you know, support your show.

Jordan (40:52):
Yeah, so I have children that subscribe to my show and
they go to it for the bonusepisodes.
So I just record like two bonusepisodes a month and then I
have had kids write in sayingthat they earn the premium
subscription through like anallowance base kind of thing.
I think a lot of parents dothat with like Roblox, like

(41:13):
Robux and stuff like that.
But you can also offer thatwith a podcast subscription.

Kevin (41:18):
Okay, yeah, a couple of great ideas there.
I will tackle it from just thesupport side, not the premium
content like subscriber side.
From the support side, not thepremium content like subscriber
side.
From the support side, one ofthe default benefits that we
have is an option that you canchoose is get a shout out on the
show.
So you could just open uplistener support, which is
basically one click withinBuzzsprout, set your benefit
message to get a shout out onthe show and then, if any of the

(41:41):
children that listen end upbeing a supporter, you just give
them a shout out on the show.
You could talk a little bitabout maybe the fan emoji that
they choose, or you could gettheir email address and you
could drop them an email and youcould say hey, if you want to
write a message that we'll readon the show, you can do it that
way.
I love that idea.
Great idea.
Yeah, I think kids love likehearing their name again.
You know like be intentionalabout protecting identities, so

(42:02):
maybe first name only, or firstname like last initial and stuff
like that.
You know cause you do achildren's show.
You know the appropriate way tohandle this, but I loved when I
was younger.
This is something I've beendoing high school.
All the time I'm trying to callin on a radio show to win
tickets to the uh, you know theminor league baseball game or
the local hockey team orsomething like that.
Just like getting on the radiowas a huge reward.

(42:26):
So I imagine a kid hearingtheir name on one of their
favorite podcasts would be ahuge reward for them and maybe
something that their parentswould say hey, well, if you do
these chores or whatever, wewill support the show at $3 a
month, at $5 a month, so thatyou get a call out every episode
.

Jordan (42:36):
I'm actually going to take a page from the summer
listening challenge, where thepodcasters will send a video
message to the kids and it'slike a prerecorded video message
that's going to apply toanybody and I feel like you
could email that to somebody.
Just prerecord a message, asyou know the host of the podcast
, telling them how much youappreciate their support and

(42:58):
maybe saying something that youknow resonates with your fan
base or like an inside joke fromthe show, and then you can
email that to the parents or tothe kids that sign up.

Kevin (43:08):
Yeah, this is one of the things that's a little bit
different about how Buzzsproutdoes support and subscribers is
that you actually get access tothe email address that they use
when they sign up to become asupporter or a subscriber.
If somebody subscribes, likethrough our Apple podcast
integration, you don't get that,so you have to be a little bit
more creative in how you couldreach out to them directly.
But if you're just doingBuzzsprout subscriptions and
Buzzsprout listener support, youcan email them directly.

Jordan (43:30):
All right.
And then we got a message fromDevin that says I have a Patreon
, just one subscriber, arelative but I personally
subscribe to a few networks likeGZM Shows and NPR Plus.
I love their models ad-freeplus early access or ad-free and
bonus content and I'd reallylike to see Buzzsprout
subscriptions support comboslike that and ideally across
multiple podcasts.
Great feedback and we'reworking on subscriptions and

(43:53):
support as we said, so put thatin there.

Kevin (43:56):
Yeah, I will say this If you use the Apple podcast
subscriptions integration,there's no reason that you can't
do this stuff over there today.
And so go ahead and set up yourBuzzsprout subscription and
that might be a simpler model.
But then you can log into ApplePodcast Connect, modify your
subscription there, you cancreate a channel and you can put
multiple shows in that channeland you can merge different

(44:17):
types of benefits so you can doad free and early access and all
that kind of stuff.
So for people who subscribethrough Apple Podcasts, that's
an offering that's uniquelythere and you can maybe even
talk about that on your show.

Jordan (44:28):
Awesome and great news, guys.
Uh, Devin also said I love theSpotify rants.
It's why I avoid publishingthere or on YouTube music too.

Kevin (44:36):
Oh hey, good for you.
Good for you.
Like we said, we it's.
It's not a small price to pay.
So I really am proud of whenpeople say that they don't like
the way that somebody'soperating in a certain space.
So I'm just not going to use itLike that's powerful.
Thank you.

Alban (44:50):
Scott with talk with history, reached out and said I
subscribe to everything's 80movie review podcasts on Patreon
.
It's an extra show from thefree everything's 80 podcast
host does a great job with thefree version and I had to sign
up for the patreon only episodesas well.

Kevin (45:08):
I do like that.
Everything 80s podcast.
I mean, I'm an 80s child and,oh my gosh, some of those
episodes are so good.
David john clark from the latebloomer actor wrote in and said
I use buzzsprout subscriptions.
I don't offer premium contentbecause I podcast to share info
freely, but still I do offersubscribers a chance to join
live recordings and askquestions.

(45:28):
That is that's, I mean, a huge,huge benefit.
Can you imagine if you're anavid listener of a show and you
say, hey, if you become asubscriber, I will interact with
you and give you a chance tocome on the show?
Huge, so I love it.
It's completely creative andunique.
Great job, david.

Alban (45:44):
All right, so we've got a bunch of people who wrote in
about remote recordings and allthe different tools you use and
all the different pitfalls yourun into.
We've reached out to Riverside.
We talked to them a bit aboutwhat we've had, so if we figure
out the solution we will let youknow.
But some of you wrote in withyour ideas as well.
So Kelly is first.
She said if you find anythingthat's really reliable with

(46:07):
audio and video, she wants in.
Kelly uses Squadcast, whichseemed to be most reliable for
them and it was good becausethey're not interviewing other
podcasters.
They're mostly interviewingpeople who are new to podcasting
.
Kelly said the most commonissue that she runs into is
guests not having at least 10megabytes per second upload

(46:27):
speed, which I guess forSquadcast seems to be really
important.
So they try to catch thatduring the screening process.
I think we're all good there,but another good thing to check
out.
So thank you, kelly, forreaching out.

Jordan (46:40):
All right.
And then Matt Purdy from whatit's Like To Be and Chris from
Podtastic Audio both recommendClean Feed as a remote recording
software and they swear by it,so that's kind of cool to know.

Alban (46:51):
I used Clean Feed once.

Kevin (46:52):
Yeah, I have heard so many good things about Clean
Feed.
I just you know we would missthe video component, but maybe
we can do without video.
Who knows?
Caitlin from Our Kids PlayHockey said you guys got to try
StreamYard.
We do the local recordingsNever had an issue with gargling
.
In fact, I can count on onehand the amount of issues we had
in two years.
I didn't know.
Honestly, I didn't know.

(47:13):
Streamyard was just a remoterecording solution.
I thought it was just forsetting up live streaming, which
we are not interested in at all.

Jordan (47:19):
I thought so too.

Kevin (47:21):
So I just didn't have them as a competitor in this
space, but maybe worth checkingout.

Alban (47:26):
Katie and David both reached out.
They have kind of similarissues or they experienced
something like we have withgarbled audio before.
Katie says it's frustrating.
David said I think I have asolution, but it involved
turning off all Chromeextensions, closing all other
programs, disabling OneDrive andany other backup services.
But since doing that myrecordings have been smooth.

Jordan (47:48):
I'm just thinking about like having my outline up, like
that'd be impossible.

Alban (47:52):
I think there's got to be a solution that's simpler than
that, but it's good to know thatDavid has been able to get it
down so that he doesn't have anyof these issues.

Kevin (48:01):
Steve Vaughn from the photography pod said I'm a
podcaster and a weddingphotographer.
Okay, steve, you're like whatis it when you're addicted to
stress or cortisol, like themost high stress things ever?
But he says I use Riverside andrarely ever have problems.
I think the answer is to do asmuch of the editing in the app
itself.
Okay, well, that's, that'spossible.

(48:21):
Um, that's not a workflow thatwe use.
Jordan downloads the raw audiofiles and does editing outside
of the app.
But maybe if you do editinginside the app, I don't want to.
I know you don't want to, butmaybe it does resolve some of
those issues, but that's greatto hear.
I'm excited to hear that Steveis not having any problems.

Jordan (48:38):
We actually have a final recommendation that came in
while we were recording, so thiswas from Derek, from
Intentional Teaching, sayingthat he uses Zencaster and also
experiences the garbling that Imentioned.
Hmm, it's interesting.

Alban (48:54):
I think that that probably leads more to this
theory that Kevin had earlier,that this more is likely
connected to things with Chromeand the libraries that everybody
else is using, rather thanspecific software.

Jordan (49:07):
Yeah, well, I guess we'll see if we get any answers
for that and then follow up.

Kevin (49:12):
All right.
So, wrapping up that segment ofremote recording feedback from
our last episode, I do want tosay that, of all the companies
that we spoke about, there wasone company that proactively
reached out to both Alban and Iand said we are interested in
solving any issues that you guysare having with your remote
recording, and that is thecompany that we currently use as

(49:33):
our remote recording solution.
That is Riverside.
And so they reached out toAlban, they reached out to me
and they said if you're havingany problems, we want to fix
them, and so we are activelyworking with them, and Jordan is
getting audio examples, and sowe are optimistic that we will
soon have a follow-up story thatsays here's what was happening,
here's why it's happening,here's how it's been resolved.
We'll let you know to bedetermined, but I do want to

(49:54):
give them props because they aremaybe they're the only company
that listens, I don't know, butit does go hand in hand with
what we've thought for a longtime, which is that the people
at Riverside are good people,they're interested in building
good software and they want towork with their customers to
provide the best solution theycan, and so here's evidence of
that.
So thank you to the team atRiverside that's reaching out,
yeah, and we're excited aboutcontinuing to use your product.

(50:16):
So hopefully we can get theseminor issues resolved and we'll
report back once they are.

Alban (50:21):
Sarah from Wish I'd Known Then reached out and said, in
response to Kevin's quandaryabout what to call a side hustle
or a hobbyist podcaster, myco-host and I say we're semi-pro
podcasters.
I love it.
I've got to say I'm not a fanof corporate advertising, feed
drops or displaying play counts.

Kevin (50:42):
I want less algorithms in my life, not more.

Alban (50:43):
Well, Sarah, then you know what you're going to love
Pod roll, pod roll.
You got to get on.
You got to recommend the showsthat you love.
We can be the algorithm that wewant in the world.
That's not the catchphrase.
We're working on thecatchphrase.

Kevin (50:57):
Be the algorithm that you want in the world.

Jordan (51:02):
That's our next merch line.

Kevin (51:04):
What's the saying?
The change thing, be the changeyou want to see in the world.
Be the algorithm you want tosee in the world.
Maybe that's it.

Jordan (51:11):
D Sparkling Life Coach, wrote in and said I'll scratch
your back.
As believed, it was started inthe 17th century English Navy.
Back then, sailors werepunished with a
cat-of-nine-tails, which is awhip.
Sometimes they'd make deals togo easy on each other, just
scratching the offender's backin exchange for a favor later,
it's dark.

Kevin (51:28):
Yeah, it's dark, but I do think the saying makes a lot
more sense in that context.

Jordan (51:32):
Yeah, it does yeah.

Kevin (51:33):
You know, because today I'm thinking somebody wants me
to scratch their back becausethey want to feel good, which
creeps me out.
I'm just imagining people whodon't have one of those long
forks to scratch the back.
Oh yeah, and then Matt Purdywrote in he's the producer on
what it's like to be podcast andsays I got a question for y'all
.
How do you handle transcriptsin Apple?

(51:53):
I see that you're uploadingthem yourselves rather than
relying on Apple to translatethe episodes for you.
Do you upload a properlyformatted transcript in Apple
podcast for creators each timeand then upload a transcript
formatted in a different way viaBuzzsprout dashboard for all of
the other platforms?
I haven't been able to figureout a best practice for this yet
, jordan.
What do you do?

Jordan (52:12):
Well, I let our episode run through co-host AI and then
I edit the transcript inBuzzsprout and hit publish.
That's all I do.
Yep, Very simple.

Kevin (52:21):
So that is the simplest workflow.
It does require that you havethe co-host add-on added to your
Buzzsprout account in order forthat to happen, but that is the
simplest way to have aconsistent transcript across all
platforms.
Now Apple still has theirdiscretion whether they will use
the podcaster createdtranscript or use their own.
That is a bit of a black box.

(52:42):
Well, I say a bit.
It's a total black box.
We don't really know the rules.
They just say a high qualitytranscript and they are the ones
who determine whether the oneyou're providing is higher
quality than the one that theyautomatically created or not.
There was a time in thebeginning when we couldn't seem
to produce a higher qualitytranscript than they could,
according to them, and we didour best to make it absolutely
perfect, and they would stillsay it's not high quality enough

(53:10):
.
I think that's changed.
I don't know for a fact, but Ido think they are pulling at
least some of our transcriptsnow, even if they are edited
perfectly.
Sometimes some ones still won'tget through.
But that's the best you can do,which is provide the highest
possible transcript that you can.
It does have to be in the rightformat, which is SRT or VTT.
That will be automaticallycreated for you if you use
co-host.
If not, that's what you have toupload to Buzzsprout to get it
into Apple.

Alban (53:28):
Yeah, all right, for our next big episode, jordan will be
on her sabbatical.
She's been at Buzzsprout forthree years, is going to take
some well-deserved time off andI am going to be your host.
So I'm putting together anoutline.
I want to try something new.
We're not going to have a soundoff segment.
I don't want to have a wholesection of feedback.
Instead, I want to incorporateyour feedback into the entire

(53:50):
episode.
So we're going to do an episodeabout what did you wish you
knew before you startedpodcasting.
Kevin and I have beenpodcasting for over 10 years
each, so we're going to comewith a couple of tips, things
that we wish we knew, but wewant to incorporate your
feedback.
So tell us how long have youbeen podcasting, whether it has
been a single episode or you'vebeen doing it for 20 years.

(54:11):
Tell us what's something youwish you knew before you started
podcasting, and to have youranswer featured text the show.
Click the link and we will getthat and we will incorporate it
into the full outline.

Kevin (54:23):
Yeah, and if you're wondering what makes Alban and I
so uniquely qualified to answerthese questions, not only have
we been podcasting for 10 years,as Alban mentioned, but we are
also a top 2% podcast in thepodcast about podcasting niche
Trader Space.
This is one of the many thingsthat are on my long list of the
top 2% club that I'm in.
It is indoor skydiving,pickleballing and podcasting

(54:47):
about podcasting.

Jordan (54:48):
I'm excited for that episode.
So until next time, keeppodcasting.

Alban (54:57):
So last week we had Jordan in town and it's one of
the few times a year that we seeyou in person.
We don't see you on videoscreens.
It does make me think of howmuch I enjoy living in a world
with all these cool digital andinternet products and that we
can all work remote and we don'thave to go to the office every
day.
It's really nice, but there issomething about just going and

(55:19):
seeing people in person that isso much better and it's so much
more rich, more fun.
So it's great to more rich,more fun.
So it was great to have youhere.

Jordan (55:25):
Yeah, I mean we record this episode for like two hours
and by the end of it I am toast,I am exhausted.
But it's so funny because whenI get to work in the office I
will be in a conference roomhanging out with you literally
the entire day brainstormingprojects, working on stuff, and
I'm not exhausted.
And then we like go out at theend of the day and it's just.

(55:47):
It's such a different energyand environment than just being
in a zoom call.

Kevin (55:52):
All right, I'm looking at Alban, ping me a question and
said are you going to go topodcast movement this year?
And I'm looking at the datesfor that and let me tell you I'm
thinking about this becausethat's the next time that we're
probably all going to betogether, right?
If I say yes to this question,which I'm trying to say yes to,
what are you thinking?
Is the answer yes, I'm going tohave to make this work.

(56:13):
I don't know exactly how I'mgoing to make this work, but my
daughter is.
She's going to be transferringschool, so she's going to TCU,
which is in Fort Worth, which isright next to Dallas Whoa, and
I have to help her move in theweek before podcast movement.

Alban (56:30):
So I wonder am I just going to spend the whole week?
Yeah, stay there, come to.
Uh, jordan and I are going togo a day early.
Uh, so is Megan, and we'regoing to have like a day to work
together.
We'll probably do that Monday,and then Tuesday, wednesday,
thursday, we have podcastmovement.
You could come work with us onMonday, I'll hang out.

Kevin (56:49):
All right.
Well, I'm going to need helpfrom the buzzcast listening
audience then, because if I amgoing to be in Dallas, fort
Worth, for almost two weeksbecause I'm going to have to be
there a few days to get hermoved in ahead of time, then I'm
going to have a few days ofdowntime and then you guys are
coming in the next week forpodcast movement.
You know I'm a four ohpickleball player.
Now I can't go two weeks, I haveto find some local courts and a

(57:12):
local community to challenge meon my game.
Keep my skills up.

Alban (57:15):
Wait.
So you're going to go with yourdaughter, you're going to go up
there like the week before,like the eighth or something,
and then you're going to stay awhole week.

Kevin (57:22):
I think she said that she wants to needs to move in like
the 11th, 12th, 13th orsomething.
Okay, so somewhere in there.

Jordan (57:30):
Well, have you ever been to Fort Worth?

Kevin (57:32):
No, I've never been.

Jordan (57:33):
Oh, so last summer I went to Fort Worth because my
in-laws moved to Texas like acouple of years ago, and so we
took the kids down there and wewent and did their daily
Longhorn cattle drive that theydo down like the old road in
Fort Worth and it sounds reallylame but it is so cool.
I was way too excited.

(57:54):
I think I was enjoying thatmore than the kids were.

Alban (57:56):
All right, so cattle drive, it's on the agenda.

Jordan (58:00):
Yep, there's some great pubs around there.

Alban (58:02):
I've already texted a friend, friend kevin.
10 years ago we went to ourfirst podcast movement and
that's where I met my friendreggie, who was at podcast
moving with his show, and heended up becoming good friends.
He's come to jacksonville ahandful of times so I'm going to
stay there an extra day andhang out with him.
You could probably connect withreggie.
I'm sure there's otherpodcasters in the area you could

(58:23):
go out and do stuff with, maybeplay some pickleball.

Kevin (58:26):
Oh, yeah, yeah.
So now, now, this, uh, thistrip to move in my daughter has
turned into a.
I gotta have an agenda.
Yeah, I gotta get somepickleball on the calendar.
I got a.
I got some sort of cattle drivegoing down main street and, um,
I'm sure the Rangers will be intown at some point, right,
rangers?

Alban (58:43):
are in town, yeah, and so are the Cowboys.
You could go to a preseasonfootball game.

Kevin (58:48):
Probably going to pass on that.

Alban (58:50):
You can see I've already started.
As soon as we decided we weregoing to be there a day early,
megan and I start pulling upwhat sporting events are going
to happen, and she's likeRangers and they're going to be
out of town, but they're therethe week before where you're
there, and then we both lovefootball games.
So we looked it up and we werelike, oh, the Cowboys just the
week before.
So that opportunity is therefor you, kevin.

Kevin (59:11):
Well, if anyone's listening from the Dallas Fort
Worth area, not only should yougo buy a ticket to podcast
movement, because we'll be thereand it'll be fun, but shoot me
some ideas, tap text the showand tell me what I should be
doing in Dallas, fort Worth and,especially if you're on the
pickleball scene there, tell mewhich courts I need to hit and
where I can find some goodcompetitive play.

Alban (59:30):
There we go.