January 3, 2025 • 43 mins
Is PayPal's Honey browser extension siphoning affiliate commissions? In Megalag's YouTube video, The Honey Trap: Exposing PayPal's Influencer Scam, we learn about the accusations of Honey overriding affiliate cookies, stealing income from influencers, and manipulating consumer savings—all under the guise of helping shoppers save money.
Before we cover that, we share updates about PodFest 2025, including Buzzsprout’s VIP party and unique swag!
Then, we reflect on 2024 and all our favorite new things Buzzsprout released in the last year!
View the discussion thread on Twitter/X
Sound-Off Question: What are you most proud of from podcasting in 2024?
Contact Buzzcast
- Send us a text message
- Tweet us at @buzzcastpodcast, @albanbrooke, @kfinn, and @JordanPods
Thanks for listening and Keep Podcasting!
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Alban (00:03):
I hate this song now.
Kevin (00:05):
Me too.
Jordan (00:07):
Air drums.
No one can hear that in anaudio format.
Kevin (00:26):
All right Jordan on the horn.
Jordan (00:30):
I don't know, and all the way from the east coast of
florida oh, I was gonna be me.
Solo.
Welcome back to Buzzcast, apodcast about all things
(00:51):
podcasting from the people atBuzzsprout.
All right, so today we'rekicking off the episode with
some info about PodFest 2025.
She's coming up fast, it'scoming.
I thought we had a couple moreweeks, but we don't.
I'm not ready for the new year.
Alban (01:04):
You know how, sometimes like it's February before you
write.
She's coming up fast, it'scoming.
I thought we had a couple moreweeks, but we don't.
I'm not ready for the new year,you know how sometimes it's
February before you write thecorrect date.
Yes, yeah.
2025 does not seem like a realyear.
That seems like a very distantyear.
Jordan (01:16):
Yeah, I don't know how we got here so fast.
So this is going to be atRenaissance Orlando at SeaWorld
this year, which I'm veryexcited about, and we will be
there from Thursday the 16ththrough Saturday the 18th.
It's going to be a good time.
Alban (01:32):
Yeah, it'll be a lot of fun.
There's hours in the expo hall,there's talks, there's going to
be lots of parties and there'sa Buzzsprout Podfest party.
So if you are coming withBuzzsprout, if you're on Bus
Brow, you're invited, yourguests are invited and we'll
have food, we'll have drinks I'msure we'll have other stuff and
you just meet and greet, hangout, have friends and if you're
(01:52):
like Jordan, you can meetsomebody and go to Harry Potter
Land together the next day yeah.
Kevin (01:58):
Where is the party?
Is it on premise at the hotel,or is?
Alban (02:02):
it off.
Not only is it on premise,kevin, it's in the Podfest VIP
room.
Jordan (02:08):
Vip lounge which is fancier than a room.
Alban (02:12):
I'm not sure what the VIP lounge entails.
Does that mean like velvetwalls?
I think it means like we're ina hotel and there's a room where
, if you're a VIP, you can go inand get snacks.
During the day, yeah, but atnight you can go in and get food
and drinks with Buzzsprout atour exclusive VIP Buzzsprout
Podfest party.
Jordan (02:32):
Yeah, I don't think it's going to be like dimly lit with
like booths and stuff like that.
Yeah, that's what it should belike a speakeasy, it really
should be, but I think it'sgoing to look like all the other
rooms, but be limited to whocan go in there.
Kevin (02:46):
When you walk in the door , will you be handed a flute of
champagne?
Alban (02:50):
We could make that happen .
Jordan (02:52):
Alban going to be in a tux, just by the door.
Kevin (02:54):
A little towel over your arm handing out flutes of
champagne.
I have a tux.
Can you make that happen?
Alban (03:00):
You want that to happen.
Kevin (03:01):
If this is what you want out.
Alban (03:03):
Of 2025, start the year off.
Right me handing out champagneflutes and a tux.
I can make that happen.
I, uh, I have a tux.
I'm ready to dress up.
Well, there you go.
All right, I'll wear out.
What's the like band you haveover your cummerbund?
The thing over your likestomach area?
That looks terrible.
(03:24):
Those never look good.
Why do people do this?
I agree.
Jordan (03:26):
Well, you're not wearing it, right.
Alban (03:28):
Not wearing it right.
Jordan (03:29):
Yeah.
Alban (03:29):
It's just like an additional item that's involved.
I don't understand.
Why is it a thing?
What is the point?
Kevin (03:35):
I like how Jordan just immediately assumes if it looks
dumb on you, Alban, you'rewearing it wrong.
Alban (03:47):
Because if you're wearing it right it would.
You'd be killing it.
I think that's a complimentactually, does your tux have
tails?
No, it doesn't, it's like anormal tux.
Kevin (03:51):
It's not formal enough, then, for this event it's my
wedding, tux no, a normal tuxhas tails yeah, normal tux.
You have to kick your tails outbefore you sit down at the
grand piano yeah, you might aswell just be wearing a suit.
Alban (04:02):
This is not I agree, you can tell it's a tux because you
wear the patent leather shoes.
Jordan (04:07):
Oh, are they like the covers?
Do you have like the shoecovers that go?
Alban (04:12):
You guys have been watching too many movies from
like the 1930s, like jazz era orsomething.
Kevin (04:17):
I like that.
I want you to wear a Gatsby tuxSame tux from the great Gatsby
All right, podfest, okay tux.
Alban (04:25):
Same tux from the great gatsby.
All right, pod fest.
Okay, it's gonna happen.
It's gonna be good.
You're gonna make friends.
You're gonna go to harry potterland if you want.
Yeah, and if this is reallykevin's goal for 2025, I'll be
wearing a great gatsby tux andGot.
Shit Fake Blutes.
Jordan (04:46):
So stupid.
I love it.
Kevin (04:47):
I don't want to give too much away, but we are also here
in Jacksonville, Florida.
The team here is working on themost unique swag that we've
ever attempted to bring to apodcast conference.
Alban (04:59):
To be clear, unique and good are not always the same.
Exactly as we said, with ourmarketing tips, there's overlap
sometimes.
Jordan (05:05):
We've established that, like a few episodes ago.
Kevin (05:08):
Anybody who's been a listener to this podcast
understands that every episodeis unique.
Very rarely are they good.
Jordan (05:13):
What other swag do we have?
So okay, so we're we've gotthis like secret unique swag,
and then what else do we havethat we're bringing?
Alban (05:20):
We're bringing a podcast achievement pins, so people
who've hit new achievements willbe getting those.
Jordan (05:25):
Yeah.
Alban (05:25):
We're going to have stickers.
We're going to have t-shirts.
Kevin (05:28):
In the VIP lounge, we'll bring our coasters out.
Alban (05:30):
Bring out our coasters.
Kevin (05:31):
Yeah, so standard Buzzsprout, how we normally roll
.
Jordan (05:35):
Yeah.
Kevin (05:35):
Really cool t-shirts, tons of stickers.
The achievement pins have beenaround for a year now, so come
you know, get updated on yourlatest achievement pins, and
this year we're trying somethingnew.
It might be a total flop, butwe're going to give it a go.
It might be awesome, but Ithink everyone should come by
the booth and see what we'reattempting.
Alban and I have a lot of workto do over the next week or so.
Jordan (05:54):
Yeah, well, and it's awesome because we actually got
family from road adventures, ofcycling, men, of leisure, and
they asked if we were going tohave the achievement pins.
So they'll be very excited tohear that we will have them at
the booth.
So come by the Expo Hall Ithink it opens at like 3 pm on
Thursday.
Come get your pins, say hi, getpictures with us, it'll be
great.
As of this recording, it's thefinal day of 2024.
(06:19):
And when I was putting thisoutline together, I was thinking
back on like how awesome thisyear has been for Buzzsprout,
and so I went to our new pagewhere we post like the
announcements and anything newto Buzzsprout.
And, holy cow, this year wasbananas for us.
I actually like copied some ofour new announcements over to
the outline, and so I kind ofwant to like look back on this a
(06:40):
little bit with you guys andsee, you know, what was your
favorite thing that weaccomplished this year for
Buzzsprout.
Alban (06:46):
Mine, I think, is pretty easy.
Jordan (06:48):
Okay.
Alban (06:48):
I've got two.
Okay, there you go.
I broke it already.
I mean, my favorite is that wereleased the iOS and Android
apps.
This is an idea that I know hasbeen going around in Kevin's
mind for like five years.
Jordan (07:02):
Yeah.
Alban (07:02):
Trying to make it work, trying to think of ways that it
could work out.
Kevin's like we got to do itand we found the right people
and we built these things prettyquickly and they just keep
getting better and better.
We've had a bunch of newreleases and I just really like
them.
I think I don't have like themetrics to prove that this is
the greatest decision and thegreatest idea of all time,
(07:24):
except that I really like them.
And we have a podcast and I nowsee my widget every day and I
see all of our downloads and Isee our progress and I see that
cool microphone design and Ijust like it and I click in and
I use it more, even when I'm atmy desk with my computer.
It's more accessible to get tocertain things inside of
(07:45):
Buzzsprout and so maybe I'mactually more of a user of this
feature, but that's probably myfavorite thing that we did this
year.
Jordan (07:53):
Yeah, I agree with you on that and I think that you
know, having a native app reallyopened a lot of doors for us to
have more features, moreaccessibility, more fun with the
product.
So, yeah, I can see that forsure.
Kevin (08:11):
Yeah, I'm going to be boring because I have the same
answer.
Everything like 2024 for me isall the achievements we made in
mobile.
Yeah, one of the things I'mmost proud of.
And, jordan, this might be thewrong way because I know you
don't love ratings and reviews,but the Buzzsprout app in the
iOS app store has over athousand ratings.
Jordan (08:23):
The average is 4.9, which is insanely high Mind
blowing to me, yeah.
Kevin (08:27):
Yeah, it was something that we talked a lot about when
we were building the app makingsure that we came out strong.
Like you hear about apps all thetime and when you go search
them up in the app store and youlook at them like it's never a
good feeling when you see thatthing with a 2.5 star rating or
a three star rating.
I got some stuff for Christmasthat required getting an app to
make it work and I'm like, oh, Ijust looked the app up and I
(08:49):
got to download this thing tomake it work and it only has
three stars.
This is going to be garbage,terrible experience, and so we
wanted to build something thatwas substantial enough, that was
just a strong enough foot outthe door to make sure that when
people saw it in the app store,it gave them a good feeling of
confidence that this is going tobe good.
It's going to be added to myexperience.
It's worth your timedownloading, installing and
(09:10):
learning how to use.
You know a different experienceand different UI, even though
it's the same product.
Here we are almost a full yearlater from the initial release
and we're at 4.9 stars.
I'm just really proud of that.
Like that actually really doesexceed my expectations for.
Jordan (09:25):
All right, so I think my answer is actually a little bit
different from yours.
I am very aestheticallymotivated person, like I like
things to be pretty.
What was so exciting about thisyear for Buzzsprout was not
just that we have this reallyfun rebranding Now we have this
like lightning bolt and allthese like beautiful colors with
(09:46):
it and it just looks gorgeous.
But we also redesigned like thepodcast websites and the
dashboard, and it's just so funfor me because I just I like
when things look really good andI enjoy using things so much
more when they look just pretty.
Alban (10:02):
I'd like to point out Jordan, great answer, but you
picked three things.
You know how to do that, butit's over the umbrella.
I like that.
Everything looks better.
And then you picked everydesign.
Jordan (10:15):
I was trying to like sneak that in, and I didn't even
mention like how much I lovethat now you can display fan
mail on your website, which isanother thing.
I'm just going to like connecteverything together, so I get my
one thing and it's actuallyfour.
Kevin (10:33):
I get it.
So you're saying in 2024 wasthe year of Buzzsprout's glow up
?
Jordan (10:38):
Yes, yes.
Kevin (10:40):
And you know, I think it aligns right with the life cycle
of the product.
So this year we also celebratedour 15 year anniversary.
So if you think about the lifecycle of a human anyway, like
when we first launchedBuzzsprout.
It's kind of like this baby.
All babies are cute, right?
I mean they're a little pudgy,they got rolls, and some have
hair and some don't, but they'recute and that lasts for a
(11:03):
little while.
You know through I don't knowelementary school age.
But then everyone enters theirawkward stage, right Adolescence
.
You start to get, you know, youget some pimples.
You don't know what to do withyour hair.
Jordan (11:14):
Trying to figure out your style, yeah.
Kevin (11:16):
Yeah, you know you're awkward.
You're.
You know, somebody who was,might've been super athletic is
now not as athletic becausetheir body's growing faster and
they're getting used to it andeverything there.
So they look awkward, they moveawkwardly.
Middle school was awkward, yeah, they move awkwardly.
Mill school is awkward, yeah,and Buzzsprout had a little bit
of that right.
Yeah, but right around 15 yearsold they're kind of.
You know, they're stepping intothat puberty stage.
They're starting to glow up alittle bit.
They're starting to, you know,tuck in their shirt.
(11:38):
They're working on theirhygiene, they're brushing their
hair more regularly.
Kevin, you have like boys atthis age, I know right in step
with where they are.
Alban (11:47):
I'm going to have to send this over to them and be like
this is how your dad feels aboutyou.
You're finally hitting yourglow up stage.
Yeah, they would agree.
Jordan (11:54):
It's like Buzzsprout had its quinceañera and it came out
with its gorgeous ball gown and, just like went down the stairs
you know, like Scarlett O'Harastyle.
Yeah, that's what it was.
Kevin (12:04):
The braces are off.
Jordan (12:05):
Yeah.
Kevin (12:06):
Yeah, and it's really starting to hit.
Jordan (12:08):
Alban, how are we doing on the branding message?
Alban (12:14):
We're off, oh man, but I think there's lots of little
ones, and I recently got thisemail from Superhuman, which is
like a email client that I use.
And they just kind of listed outeverything they'd done over the
year, and I really liked itbecause I went through it and
there were certain ones that Iremember.
I saw the announcement and Ithought that might be useful for
(12:35):
me, but I never dug into it andit was nice to see it all in
one place so that if there wassomething that was you know, I
was like, oh, I should go back,I could.
So could we kind of go throughmaybe kind of the top line level
announcements through the year,even if they weren't our number
one or one of Jordan's sixfavorites?
Okay?
Jordan (12:53):
Yeah, absolutely Okay, so I actually timeline this out
for us.
So February 20th we addedYouTube and YouTube Music to the
podcast directories, and thenon March 3rd, we released
Buzzsprout for iOS.
Kevin (13:03):
Yes.
Jordan (13:04):
April 26th.
We made it so you can run adson specific podcasts.
Alban (13:08):
Run ads on specific podcasts.
So made it so you can run adson specific podcasts.
Run ads on specific podcasts.
So that's a Buzzsprout adsfeature where if you want to
target Buzzcast only and youwanted to run an ad with us, you
could buy an ad throughBuzzsprout and target only our
show and if we pick it up thenyou get to run it only on
Buzzcast and you don't getspread around to other shows.
Right, yeah, what was the nextone?
Jordan (13:29):
Next was one of my favorites.
We added fan mail on May 3rdand then on May 24th we added
the ability to back up yourpodcast episodes.
And then June 12th, chaptermarkers we're starting to work
in Spotify.
Alban (13:43):
This is one of the things I really loved these small
little tweaks that we figuredout a way after a while to make
it all work in Spotify and makeit so if you add dynamic content
, then everything's stilladjusted.
Spotify had that show notes wayof doing it, but the downside
is those are static.
Jordan (14:01):
Yeah.
Alban (14:02):
And now they easily break .
But this way, chapter markersare going to work in Spotify, no
matter what.
Jordan (14:08):
Yeah, basically, when we add a feature that removes a
workaround for a podcaster,that's a good thing.
Alban (14:13):
Yeah, that's a very good thing.
Jordan (14:15):
And then June 24th we released Buzzsprout for Android
and July 1st was the Buzzsproutrebrand and redesign, which is
crazy, looking at that, likehaving the app come out and then
, like basically a week later,we announced like a redesign.
Alban (14:30):
That, honestly, to me feels like more than a year ago.
Jordan (14:33):
I know, is that weird?
Alban (14:34):
Doesn't it feel like that to you, Kevin?
Kevin (14:35):
The rebrand launch, yeah it feels like a long time.
Well, I mean, we did work on itfor a very long time before we
released it publicly.
Jordan (14:42):
That's true.
Kevin (14:47):
And I do remember, you know, the decision that we made
about why it released almostwhat was it a week later?
you said Jordan than the Androidlaunch, and that was because we
didn't want to have to reskinthe app right after we launched
it, and so we tried to keep themtight.
I think we had two builds onewith the old logo, one with the
new and so we did publish itjust to make sure we got
approval in the app store, andthen quickly released it with a
new build that had all the newerlogo, assets and everything,
(15:13):
and then, since people are goingto be downloading, that then we
had to publicly do the rebrandannouncement.
Jordan (15:16):
It was a hectic summer scheduling all that stuff.
Well, in looking at September.
So September 9th we added lockscreen widgets.
September 11th we redesignedthe podcast websites.
Alban (15:22):
That one was big yeah.
Jordan (15:24):
I know it was a big one.
Alban (15:25):
That was a big project Every time I see them I'm like I
feel so much better.
Oh, it's so good Because we'dhad the last version of the
podcast websites.
We'd made updates over theyears but, like the core, piece
of that was made I don't know,like 2016,.
2018 was when we rebuilt themand they got updates, but the
(15:46):
core was from back then and thenew ones are so much cleaner.
Jordan (15:47):
And then September 19th we got our IAB version 2.2
certification, which was a beast.
And then September 26th weupdated the podcast website
customizer, which was anotherreally big, very cool project.
So September was a big monthfor us.
Kevin (16:04):
Yeah, so a couple of weeks between the launch of the
new customizer and the newwebsites.
They were two big projectsright, and so we didn't want to
hold back the new websites fromeverybody while we polished up
the experience of customizingyour website.
So you're using the old UI tocustomize this you know very new
, cool website and a few weekslater then you got a new, fresh
(16:25):
UI to make updating that easier.
Jordan (16:27):
Yeah, and then October 7th, we had the ability to
create custom mid-rollplacements, which was so
exciting because that was areally big request from our
podcasters.
Kevin (16:37):
Some podcasters.
Some podcasters, not all ofthem.
Alban (16:39):
It was one of those features that we would hear
about, and yet it was a smallpercentage, that it matters a
lot too, and so it's nice to beable to build it for them.
And then the end of October wedid the new home dashboard.
So all the learnings we hadfrom doing the mobile apps and
having this kind of like landingpage because for years we'd had
the landing page and Buzzsproutwas just the episodes page,
(17:02):
which I kind of liked because itwas always encouraging like
time to upload a new episode butnow we have the home dashboard
which kind of sends you out toall the different things you
need to do in Buzzsprout so youcan kind of stay motivated, stay
on top of your podcast,continually make progress.
Some days that progress isuploading a new episode, but
sometimes it's digging intostats or it's setting up your
(17:25):
website or doing something else.
Jordan (17:27):
Or learning more about how to be a great podcaster.
I still get really excited whenI go into my Buzzsprout
dashboard and I see an updatefrom, like the Buzzsprout blog
or Alban, when you posted like anew video on YouTube.
It's just so fun for me to seethose things come up and, you
know, just be refreshed in likereal time, basically.
So I just love that.
(17:47):
And then, of course, wefinished this year with adding
the home screen widgets, whichwas a big deal because people on
Android couldn't get the lockscreen widgets, so this is a
present for them.
Kevin (17:59):
Yep, and, as we announced last week, just the shared
Instagram stories, which is justa tease of some new ideas that
we might be thinking about.
It's a very cool feature, butit's also like testing some
ideas that we have aroundsharing.
Jordan (18:12):
Kevin, you're just being a big tease this episode.
You're teasing like new swagthat we're doing.
Kevin (18:19):
Sorry, not meaning to, but yeah, ideas are ideas until
they're real, and so happy totalk about some ideas that we
have, but no commitments on anyof this stuff, but I do.
We really like the idea.
It's not a secret, of coursewe're podcasters as well as
builders of podcast software, sowe like the idea of making it
easy to share your stuff.
You create stuff and then youhave to promote it, and so all
(18:43):
the time we're trying to thinkabout what are tools that we can
put in the hands of podcastersto make sharing and spreading
the word about what you're doingand what you're creating easier
.
Alban (18:51):
Well, jordan, thanks for pulling all that together.
I really love looking at thelist.
I mean, there's multiple thingsin here that, in my mind, feel
like they were longer than ayear ago.
I recently did this past yearreview where I kind of looked
back at a bunch of the thingsthat I'd done personally over
the last year, and it's kind ofnice to do this for Buzzsprout
(19:13):
and see all the work that we didon the product side, and
there's so many more projectsthan I'd remembered and I'm
excited to see what we do nextyear.
We never plan more than sixweeks in advance, so we are just
now starting to come up withideas for the beginning of
January and February, but I'msure at the end of next year,
2025, the year that feels fakewe're going to be looking back
at another list, just this big.
Jordan (19:38):
Buckle up because I have a wild story about a PayPal
influencer scam.
Yes, this story is so good butso infuriating at the same time.
So I saw this in a pod news,james Cridland.
Linked to this, there's aYouTube video by Megalag where
he investigates honey.
Have you heard of honey?
Alban (19:58):
Yeah, the Chrome extension.
Kevin (19:59):
Yeah, yeah, honey, the Chrome extension.
But first let me understand thesource.
What was the YouTuber's name?
Jordan (20:04):
Megalag.
Kevin (20:04):
Megalag.
Is this like a popular YouTuber?
Alban (20:08):
Growing Like.
He was definitely less than amillion subscribers before he
did this and the video is nowlike 13 million views in like
nine days.
Okay.
Jordan (20:18):
Yeah.
Alban (20:19):
So James linked to it when it was a.
The video had not taken offwhen I first watched it before
our Snapcast or whatever ourQuickcast last week, and then it
just keeps blowing up sincethen.
Kevin (20:31):
Okay, so are we going into the story with the
assumption that this is true,like this is good journalistic
findings, or I believe that thisis good journalistic findings.
Jordan (20:41):
He spent a lot of time.
He was very thorough.
The video is like 28 minutes, Ithink is long and it's dense.
So he did a lot of interviewsfrom some of the influencers
that got scammed.
He looked under the hood forhow the scam is operating.
It's pretty well done, so Ihighly recommend that you watch
the video.
Alban (21:00):
Honey is this browser extension that basically sits in
Chrome and always is checkingthe pages you go to, and so
anytime you hit a checkout page,whether it be Amazon or it's a
Shopify page or it's anywhereelse, it says hey, do you want
us to find you some coupon codes?
And you know those coupon sites.
(21:20):
They have all the coupon codesand you can go through yourself
and like, copy and paste them inhoping to get 15% off or
something.
Honey runs all of those couponcodes.
This is what they say they do,and they figure out which one
will save you the most money.
So you pretty much do no extrawork and at the end of the day
you get like a nice coupon codethat saves you money.
Jordan (21:41):
Yeah.
Alban (21:42):
And what's happening is pretty much no matter what,
honey was giving themselvescredit for your sale.
And so this digs into the wholeworld of affiliate marketing,
where somebody does a video or apodcaster talks about a product
and we say, hey, you reallymight like Jocko Go.
(22:03):
Kevin drinks Jocko Go, he lovesit, and here's the link.
And if you clicked on that linkto go buy Jocko Go, because
Kevin's talked about it 15 times, then Kevin might get an
affiliate commission for it.
You buy $10 of Jocko Go and hegets $1 himself, but then comes
in this honey extension.
(22:23):
So, jordan, tell us what thisscam is.
Jordan (22:26):
So basically what happens is you have honey and
you put the Jocko Go from Kevinin your cart, you go to checkout
and then Honey's extension popsup and it says, hey, we might
have a coupon for you.
And you go, oh great, I can getsome like 10% off of this maybe
.
And so you click the extension,it runs it and it goes sorry,
(22:46):
no coupons.
But, and then what happens underthe hood is that they then
remove Kevin's affiliate cookiethat gives him credit for the
purchase and they put PayPal'saffiliate cookie in there, and
so, by doing nothing, they getthe affiliate income for that
(23:07):
purchase.
Alban (23:07):
So Kevin told you about Jocko Go 15 times.
Someone clicked the link andthe person who got a dollar is
the Honey browser extension byPayPal.
Jordan (23:17):
Yeah, megalac actually had a really good example, like
real life example, of how thiswould not work in real world.
So if you go to a store and youhave a sales rep that sells you
like, let's say, an appliance,and he goes, here's my card.
And then you take that cardthat gives him like credit for
the sale, the commission.
And when you go up to thecounter they say, hey, who was
(23:39):
your salesman?
You hand them that card and ithas his name on it.
Honey is like the person thatcomes up and they go, hey, would
you like a coupon for thatappliance?
And you go, oh great, sure.
And then they like steal theperson's commission card.
Alban (23:53):
Right.
Jordan (23:53):
And then they put their own in its place, and then they
get the commission for that sale, not the actual salesman that's
on the floor.
Alban (24:00):
To be clear, that is something that happens in retail
.
Jordan (24:03):
Does it?
Alban (24:04):
Yeah, my sister similar.
My sister used to work atBanana Republic and she might be
on the floor helping someonewith clothing.
You're cleaning up the dressingroom, you're getting the sizes,
so you work together for 20, 30minutes.
They go and buy a pair of jeansand then when you go up and you
buy the pair of jeans, they say, hey, did anybody help you?
Well, you might go, oh, sarahdid, and they go great and they
(24:26):
put down Sarah, so she gets likewhatever percentage of those
jeans, they go great.
Jordan (24:30):
And they put down.
Alban (24:31):
Sarah, so she gets like whatever percentage of those
jeans Okay.
But sometimes multiple peopleare working the floor and also
running the registers and so youknow, Jimmy may be out there
and go hey, did anybody help you?
And you say Sarah did.
He goes, okay, and he types inJimmy, and now Jimmy gets that
sale.
And so there's people who dosteal commissions and then they
get fired from retail for doingit and it's wild that the other
(24:53):
people doing it is a browserthat does tell you this is what
we're doing, run by PayPal, thatthey bought for $4 billion Like
this isn't a small company.
This is a massive, massivecompany doing a ton of work,
doing a ton of work, and allit's doing is pretty much is
(25:13):
millions and millions andmillions of affiliate codes
every day are gettingoverwritten by Honey's browser
extension and essentially juststealing those commissions from
any creator who is out theretrying to do affiliate codes.
Jordan (25:24):
And what's even worse is these are the creators that are
promoting Honey.
They're the ones spreading theword about Honey.
They're the ones being paid byhoney to get other people to
install the honey extension, andthen honey goes and steals
their affiliate income from it.
I mean it's just wild.
Alban (25:39):
That's ironic.
I think that's less bad.
Jordan (25:41):
Well how is that less bad?
Alban (25:43):
Okay, so Mr Beast is trying to sell you something, or
MKBHD or Linus Tech Tips, let'slook on those.
So they're talking about a techproduct and they say install
the Honey browser and they'llhelp you out and go buy this
hard drive.
And then you go buy the harddrive and you installed Honey,
which they told you to do.
So they got paid by Honey toconvince you to install it, and
(26:05):
then it stole their affiliatecode.
Okay, at least they knew whatthey were telling you to install
.
The person I feel really badfor is Kevin on Buzzcast telling
you about Jocko Go.
Kevin says go buy Jocko Go.
He never told you to buy Honey.
He never got money from Honey.
He had nothing to do with thisstupid browser extension.
And then it's sitting on yourbrowser because you watched a Mr
(26:29):
Beast video that said installHoney.
And now it steals Kevin'saffiliate code.
Jordan (26:33):
Yeah.
Alban (26:34):
Kevin is just the victim here.
You got nothing.
The only person who gotanything was Mr Beast, who said,
and Honey, who worked togetherto set up this arrangement.
Kevin (26:44):
Yeah, I mean in defense of Honey, which I'm not going to
make a strong case of defensefor them.
That's probably for the best,but the way the affiliate system
itself sort of is at fault aswell.
So is Honey doing something bad?
Yes, they probably are.
They're taking advantage of asystem that does have a flaw,
and the flaw in most affiliateprograms, the way they work, is
(27:06):
it's sort of like the last inthe last attribute Last click,
last click, last attribute.
Alban (27:10):
Last click.
Kevin (27:10):
Last click attribution Last click gets the commission
In real life.
That rarely is how it works.
Most people are kind enough orsmart enough, like the retail
example that Alban gave.
If you're shopping withsomebody for a couple hours and
finding all these clothes, andthen that person's like oh I
actually I'm at the end of myshift and I got to run and pick
up my kid there's somebody who'sgoing to come in and be like
I'll check them out for you andI'm going to give you the
(27:32):
commission.
And then that person might belike oh well, split it, like
take 10% for yourself, orsomething Like people are nice.
Generally In the onlineaffiliate world, you don't have
all those tools available to you.
Usually there's, and so thiscan happen in other scenarios,
like if somebody's watching.
We don't do a lot of affiliatemarketing for Buzzsprout, but
(27:54):
let's just say we did.
We could have invested hundredsof thousands of dollars over
years building up a YouTubechannel and then linking to all
these different products thatwe're reviewing microphones and
all that other kind of stuff andpeople could watch our whole
library and then finally decidethey're going to buy this one
ATR 2100X but then they justhappen to watch one more
reviewer and it could be thefirst video they've ever watched
from that person.
Jordan (28:13):
Yeah.
Kevin (28:13):
And then they say you know what?
Buzzsprout told me this for thepast five years to buy this mic
.
And now this one person alsosaid it.
Also, I'm going to just goahead and do it, mostly because
of Buzzsprout's recommendation,but they actually clicked the
link from somebody else's video.
It's just how it works, and soI'm not defending Honey here,
but I think that's going to betheir defense when they
ultimately probably have a classaction lawsuit or the
(28:34):
Department of Justice orsomebody brings some sort of
case against them at some point.
They're probably going to saythis is how affiliate marketing
works and so we're notnecessarily doing anything wrong
.
Now, it could be highlyobjectionable, you could have
moral problems with it, but isit illegal?
I don't know.
Again, the courts will decidethat, but I'm not defending them
.
I'm not defending them, but Ido say that's how the affiliate
system works and for them to putthemselves in a position to
(28:55):
basically always get the lastclick, because by installing
that thing, you know, honey'salways going to prompt you and
it's a very tempting offer of oh, you're about to check out, do
you want us to check for coupons?
Jordan (29:04):
Yeah.
Kevin (29:05):
Yes, check for coupons.
Okay, now we're the affiliateright.
Alban (29:08):
This is how all those coupon sites work.
Have you ever noticed?
You search for coupons for Gapand you pull up and it's like
here's all the coupon codes forGap.
And they always say, like clickto apply coupon.
It never shows you the name.
The reason you click is becauseyou click and then it runs you
through their URL which appliesthe cookie to you.
(29:30):
So it says, hey, we're the oneswho recommended them and so it
doesn't matter what the couponcode is.
They try to claim credit.
And this is also what happenswith search arbitrage, where
sometimes you search forsomething like Buzzsprout and
then you get a Buzzsprout promocode ad and you're like, oh,
I'll take that.
And you click it and you're onsome weird site.
(29:51):
They're trying to get a cookieto get like a refer, a friend
code for Buzzsprout or something, and so we have to track those
people down and shut them down.
But this happens all over theaffiliate world.
They're scams.
Part of it is that what we'retalking about now that it's just
so effective that Honey hasdone it better than ever that
they're using all of the biggestaffiliate marketers in the
(30:13):
world to get this out to theworld, and so there were like 20
million people using the Honeyextension, which is really high.
But then there's other things inhere, kevin.
They're even worse.
Even if they don't find acoupon code, they change the
affiliates themselves.
They hide coupon codes becausethey actually partner with the
merchants.
So let's say I went to a Idon't know, I'm buying from a
(30:37):
clothing company.
Let's go back to Gap.
We're buying at Gap and there'sactually a 10% coupon out there
and they say we'll find thebest coupons.
Well, they can work with Gapand Gap just says tell people
it's a 5% coupon max.
And so they run it and they'relike wow, we found the 5%.
And they're like I guess that'sthe very best one and it
(30:57):
applies.
Even though Honey will knowabout bigger coupons, if they
work with the merchant, theywill actively limit it so that
you don't get the largest sale.
Jordan (31:06):
Yeah, well, and on top of that they also have this like
Honey Gold slash, like PayPalrewards program sort of thing.
So if the coupons aren't doingit for you, then they'll like
pop up and say like hey, you canearn 300 PayPal or honey gold
for this purchase and you gogreat, and so you click it to
apply that so you can receiveyour 300 gold.
(31:28):
And yeah, megalag, he ran athing where he signed up for an
affiliate link through NordVPNand then he tried to use his own
affiliate code to purchasesomething from Nord and so he
made the purchase and he wassupposed to get like a $35
commission but he applied thatlike honey gold thing because
(31:48):
that popped up and they took his$35 commission but him as a
consumer received 89 cents inrewards for that purchase.
It just like it doesn't.
I don't know, it's pretty crazy.
Kevin (32:02):
It's brutal, but I think this report could be very
interesting.
If the video is I don't want touse the term going viral, but I
don't know what else to say itis going viral.
Obviously, most people, whoprobably are big on YouTube,
have heard about this by now orseen this video, and I wonder if
the most effective recourse forthis is that I imagine
(32:23):
influencers are probably goingto start creating their own
anti-honey videos and campaignsagainst them which could be way
more effective than a classaction lawsuit or the DOJ coming
in and saying they've harmedconsumers on a mass level and so
we're going to step in.
That stuff usually results ineveryone getting a check for $26
(32:43):
, but the company can stilloperate under modified rules and
all this other kind of stufflike that.
If you have even the topthousand channels on YouTube
creating anti-honey like, youneed to get this off your
computer.
It's harming creators, it'sharming everybody who creates
this content that you love, andthey're stealing all our
commissions and all that kind ofstuff.
That would be brutal, like thatwould absolutely kill the
(33:03):
product.
Jordan (33:04):
Yeah, especially since they rely on lack of
transparency for this businessmodel.
Alban (33:09):
Right.
Yeah, I think the argument thatwhat they're doing is illegal,
that's going to be tougher.
It may seem it may be slightlydeceptive practices that they
say we're getting the bestcommission but then they don't
always do it.
That might be deceptive.
There may be something aboutthem overriding the cookie that
could get them in trouble.
But this was the business model.
(33:29):
Paypal paid $4 billion becauseit was well known in 2020 that
they were trying to get lastclick attribution for affiliate
sales and by having a verypopular browser extension, they
could make millions and millionsor billions in affiliate
commissions.
It's definitely bad forcreators.
So if you are running thisextension, I would consider
(33:52):
turning it off, because you'renot going to really save a ton
of money.
You might actually get lessdeals and you're definitely
going to cost creators and otherpeople who work off affiliate
commission.
You'll cost them money.
There actually has been a classaction lawsuit filed since the
video came out.
Jordan (34:09):
Oh really.
Alban (34:10):
On behalf of the creators .
So Wendover Productions versusPayPal.
It's a class action.
Now, with class actions, youoften get a bunch of people who
file them pretty quickly andthen you'll figure out which
one's actually going to be therepresentative and you'll
certify the class.
So there's a long way to go,but there was probably this one
and there might be another, I'dimagine, on behalf of consumers
(34:32):
who are harmed, because it's notjust the creators.
There's harm for the consumers.
This is maybe the most damningfor Honey overall is when this
video came out, they had 20million users on the Chrome
extension web store.
It's down to 17 million.
So 3 million people have goneand removed the Honey extension
(34:54):
from Chrome.
At least, that's what it lookslike from screenshots I saw on
Twitter.
Kevin (34:57):
Yeah, and there's a Firefox extension and there's a
Safari extension and there mighteven be an Edge extension, but
I think almost every majorbrowser now has an extension
store.
Alban (35:06):
Yeah, and I mean that's something like 15% losing 15% of
their user base in a very shortamount of time and a very big
hit to their brand reputation.
I'm sure there'll be anotherlawsuit against Megalag, which
you'll probably need to raisesome money to defend.
Even if it's all true, it'sstill extremely expensive to
defend yourself in litigationlike this.
(35:28):
That's true.
But it's a great video.
I highly recommend watching it.
It's interesting.
It's very interesting for meworking with creators, working
with affiliate work where weactually have paid affiliates in
the past.
It's interesting to see it fromall the different angles.
So great video and definitelygo check it out.
Jordan (35:47):
All right, so let's get into SoundOff.
So, first off, we have a fanmail message from Kevin from
when Life Gives you Lemons.
This entire process fromresearch to release has been a
challenge.
Get into sound off.
So, first off, we have a fanmail message from Kevin from
when life gives you lemons.
This entire process fromresearch to release has been a
challenge, since it's just mywife and I.
Our audience is disabilitycentered and we are not really
in this for the money, but dotry to constantly grow.
We basically learned everythingabout podcasting from
buzzsprout, so thank everyonethere for us, awesome.
(36:10):
Thank you so much, kevin.
I'm happy to hear that it isdifficult to you know, bootstrap
your podcast and just be a oneor two person team for
podcasting, but I'm really gladthat we were able to make it a
little bit better for you.
Kevin (36:22):
Yeah, thanks so much for writing in.
That's great, all right,barnabas from the Kids Code
podcast wrote in and said Ilistened to one of my earlier
episodes.
Thank you, barnabas, he did hishomework.
I don't know if that's, is iteasier to do as your kid?
You're just in the habit ofdoing homework.
That was great.
He said he listened to one fromabout a year and a half ago and
it was really interesting tohear A couple of things.
That stood out was he soundedmuch younger, and so he noticed
(36:44):
that he also used some differentmusic back then and he is now
switching voices.
So I guess he's doing like acharacter podcast where he's
switching between differentvoice characters and he's able
to switch between them muchfaster than he used to be able
to do that.
So he said it still feels a bitawkward, but at the same time
he's getting more knowledgeableand just improving his podcast
overall.
So that's great.
Barnabas, Thank you so much fordoing that homework.
(37:05):
Also, he liked the marketingidea that I think Alban gave him
to do.
Was that Alban or Jordan's?
To do the cipher cards?
Jordan (37:10):
It was Alban, yeah, yeah to do the cipher cards.
Kevin (37:12):
He's going to give that a try, so that's awesome, very
cool.
Good job, barnabas.
Jordan (37:16):
All right, so what should our sound off question be
for our next episode?
We didn't have one last time,which is why the sound off is so
short this time, but I don'tknow.
Alban (37:36):
I think I'm thinking sometimes, when we ask people,
what are you proud of, theythink what will other people be
proud of me for?
And so what I really want tohear is like, what did you
accomplish that you're proud of?
Because sometimes I'm proud ofmyself for things that I
wouldn't even share, because I'mlike it's not a very big
accomplishment, but I know forme personally, it's an area that
I'm not very good at, and soI'm impressed with myself.
I'm happy that I made a firststep.
Jordan (37:56):
Yeah.
So it can be something thatyou're, you know, outwardly
proud of or something thatyou're just like.
This was a personal growththing for me.
Go ahead and tap the link inthe show notes to send in a
response, for what are you mostproud of for accomplishing in
your podcast in 2024.
And we will be sure to readthat in the next episode.
So, as always, thanks forlistening and keep podcasting.
(38:20):
Guess what I'm gonna do tonight.
Kevin (38:23):
Ooh, New Year's Eve, what are you doing?
Jordan (38:25):
I'm going to watch football Probably the first time
since I wanna say 2004.
Alban (38:32):
Wait, who's playing tonight?
Jordan (38:33):
It's going to be BSU versus Penn State for the Fiesta
Bowl.
Kevin (38:39):
Okay, Wait, wait, BSU Boise.
Alban (38:41):
Boise State.
This is your Boise State.
Jordan (38:43):
This is my Boise.
Alban (38:44):
State With the blue field .
Jordan (38:45):
Smurf, turf, baby, yeah, so I'm going to get to watch
some football tonight and I'mhoping I enjoy it.
Kevin (38:54):
Good for you, I'm proud of you, thank you?
Are you planning on likeengaging the game or are you
just going to a social eventwhere the game will be on?
Jordan (39:01):
It's going to be at my house.
It's just going to be me and myhusband watching it, but yeah,
we're going to watch the game.
It's not going to be social.
Okay, we'll probably eat lotsof chips and salsa, though.
Kevin (39:10):
So yeah, you're really going to watch the football game
.
Jordan (39:12):
I'm going to do it.
I'm going to watch it, becauseI watched the Fiesta Bowl back
in I don't know, when I was inhigh school.
It was like that game where itwas a bunch of like trick plays
and stuff and BSU won.
So I mean, we love a goodunderdog story, so I get very
excited about it.
Alban (39:25):
I have actually been to a Boise state football game
Jordan.
Jordan (39:28):
Have you really?
Alban (39:29):
I went to.
I want to say it was the firstgame Boise State Georgia in 2011
.
And Georgia's play calling wasso bad that the drunk guy
sitting like a row ahead of usjust kept yelling out what play
we were going to do.
We did it and Boise State alsoknew what it was.
So he'd be like run up themiddle and then we'd run it
(39:51):
right in the middle and stuffhe's like pass to the middle and
then we'd run it right in themiddle and stuff he's like pass
to the flat.
And then we did it.
I was like okay, we need a newplay calling.
Jordan (39:59):
That's really bad.
Alban (40:02):
But it's like the one memory from that game and I
laugh every time I think of it.
This guy who is, I wouldn'thave trusted to drive, but he
apparently was some kind offootball savant.
Jordan (40:11):
Wow, I drive, but he apparently was some kind of
football savant.
Wow.
I don't know if this is true,but I heard that if we win this
game, Boise State is going to beplaying in Florida next.
Alban (40:25):
It could be.
The bowl games are confusing tome.
So now we're down to what?
Is it?
Eight teams, and so there's acouple more rounds until the
national championship.
National championship, I think,is in Atlanta this year, but
we've got at least one of thegames is down in Miami.
I think that's the Orange Bowl,maybe.
Jordan (40:39):
I think that's right.
Alban (40:41):
So, jordan, if Georgia wins tomorrow and Boise State
wins today, we have to go toMiami.
Jordan (40:47):
Yeah, we do, that'd be so fun.
Alban (40:50):
I think it'll happen while you're down here right or
right around it.
Jordan (40:53):
I think so.
So, yeah, maybe we'll have tolike carve out some time and be
like sorry, got to take PTOright before podcast.
Kevin (41:01):
Have you ever been to a football game in person?
Jordan (41:04):
No, I've never been to a football game in person.
I think I tried to go to like aBSU game when I was in college
there, but like it was just toomany, it was too busy, it was
like really crazy, so I justdidn't go.
Alban (41:15):
Every sporting event is better in person, I think, like
it's, in my opinion, so muchbetter.
I don't ever watch hockey and Iwent to a hockey game this year
and I was like this is so muchfun in person.
Jordan (41:28):
Hockey games are stupid fun.
Alban (41:29):
I don't really like watching basketball and I went
to like pro basketball games andI'm like this is a blast.
The energy at sporting eventsis just so high and you're
connected to all these peoplewho are like riding all this
wave of emotion with you.
I love that experience.
It's like a concert, but insports it's a great thing to do.
Jordan (41:50):
The only sporting events I've ever been to.
So I went to one hockey gamethat was just so fun.
And then I've been to twobaseball games.
We did the Nationals at PodcastMovement and then I went to a
Mariners game when I was inSeattle one time and both of
them I found very boring.
So I don't know if baseball isjust not for me, but I would
love to go to a football gamesomeday and see how fun that can
(42:12):
be.
Alban (42:13):
One of my favorite photos I've ever seen online about a
baseball game.
There's a guy sitting inamazing seats at a baseball game
, like slouched, like lookingjust miserable, holding his
phone, and this photo is takenbehind him.
And what he searched is howmany innings are in a baseball
game and in the background youcan see it's the top of the
second inning and there's nineinnings minimum in a baseball
(42:36):
game.
And in the background you cansee it's the top of the second
inning and there's nine inningsminimum in a baseball game.
You're like, oh, this guy's gotlike three hours to go.
Jordan (42:42):
Oh my gosh, my father-in-law.
He came to visit us fromWashington this one time and he
was like, oh, I don't want tomiss this Mariners game while
I'm visiting.
Can we watch it at your place?
And we're like sure, whatever.
And we like bought something tobe able to stream it.
And this stupid game was like18 innings and the entire night.
We're just sitting in theliving room and I'm just sitting
there like hating life and Iwas just like I really wish we
(43:04):
didn't have to watch this stupidgame.
Yeah, I think.
Maybe.
Maybe I just don't likebaseball, I don't know.
Alban (43:14):
Baseball is just a different emotion than all other
sports because it's so muchmore laid back and calm and
there's much more like.
There's calm moments, and Ithink a lot of it is.
If you have played baseball andyou have a bit more
understanding of what's going onwith, like the pitch count,
then each pitch can have someweight.
But as a casual fan you're justlike no one's hitting the ball,
no one's hitting the ball, theyhit a ball, oh, it's over.
(43:34):
And I could see it being boring, especially if you're a little
bit more of a casual fan.
I hate this song now.
Kevin (00:05):
Me too.
Jordan (00:07):
Air drums.
No one can hear that in anaudio format.
Kevin (00:26):
All right Jordan on the horn.
Jordan (00:30):
I don't know, and all the way from the east coast of
florida oh, I was gonna be me.
Solo.
Welcome back to Buzzcast, apodcast about all things
(00:51):
podcasting from the people atBuzzsprout.
All right, so today we'rekicking off the episode with
some info about PodFest 2025.
She's coming up fast, it'scoming.
I thought we had a couple moreweeks, but we don't.
I'm not ready for the new year.
Alban (01:04):
You know how, sometimes like it's February before you
write.
She's coming up fast, it'scoming.
I thought we had a couple moreweeks, but we don't.
I'm not ready for the new year,you know how sometimes it's
February before you write thecorrect date.
Yes, yeah.
2025 does not seem like a realyear.
That seems like a very distantyear.
Jordan (01:16):
Yeah, I don't know how we got here so fast.
So this is going to be atRenaissance Orlando at SeaWorld
this year, which I'm veryexcited about, and we will be
there from Thursday the 16ththrough Saturday the 18th.
It's going to be a good time.
Alban (01:32):
Yeah, it'll be a lot of fun.
There's hours in the expo hall,there's talks, there's going to
be lots of parties and there'sa Buzzsprout Podfest party.
So if you are coming withBuzzsprout, if you're on Bus
Brow, you're invited, yourguests are invited and we'll
have food, we'll have drinks I'msure we'll have other stuff and
you just meet and greet, hangout, have friends and if you're
(01:52):
like Jordan, you can meetsomebody and go to Harry Potter
Land together the next day yeah.
Kevin (01:58):
Where is the party?
Is it on premise at the hotel,or is?
Alban (02:02):
it off.
Not only is it on premise,kevin, it's in the Podfest VIP
room.
Jordan (02:08):
Vip lounge which is fancier than a room.
Alban (02:12):
I'm not sure what the VIP lounge entails.
Does that mean like velvetwalls?
I think it means like we're ina hotel and there's a room where
, if you're a VIP, you can go inand get snacks.
During the day, yeah, but atnight you can go in and get food
and drinks with Buzzsprout atour exclusive VIP Buzzsprout
Podfest party.
Jordan (02:32):
Yeah, I don't think it's going to be like dimly lit with
like booths and stuff like that.
Yeah, that's what it should belike a speakeasy, it really
should be, but I think it'sgoing to look like all the other
rooms, but be limited to whocan go in there.
Kevin (02:46):
When you walk in the door , will you be handed a flute of
champagne?
Alban (02:50):
We could make that happen .
Jordan (02:52):
Alban going to be in a tux, just by the door.
Kevin (02:54):
A little towel over your arm handing out flutes of
champagne.
I have a tux.
Can you make that happen?
Alban (03:00):
You want that to happen.
Kevin (03:01):
If this is what you want out.
Alban (03:03):
Of 2025, start the year off.
Right me handing out champagneflutes and a tux.
I can make that happen.
I, uh, I have a tux.
I'm ready to dress up.
Well, there you go.
All right, I'll wear out.
What's the like band you haveover your cummerbund?
The thing over your likestomach area?
That looks terrible.
(03:24):
Those never look good.
Why do people do this?
I agree.
Jordan (03:26):
Well, you're not wearing it, right.
Alban (03:28):
Not wearing it right.
Jordan (03:29):
Yeah.
Alban (03:29):
It's just like an additional item that's involved.
I don't understand.
Why is it a thing?
What is the point?
Kevin (03:35):
I like how Jordan just immediately assumes if it looks
dumb on you, Alban, you'rewearing it wrong.
Alban (03:47):
Because if you're wearing it right it would.
You'd be killing it.
I think that's a complimentactually, does your tux have
tails?
No, it doesn't, it's like anormal tux.
Kevin (03:51):
It's not formal enough, then, for this event it's my
wedding, tux no, a normal tuxhas tails yeah, normal tux.
You have to kick your tails outbefore you sit down at the
grand piano yeah, you might aswell just be wearing a suit.
Alban (04:02):
This is not I agree, you can tell it's a tux because you
wear the patent leather shoes.
Jordan (04:07):
Oh, are they like the covers?
Do you have like the shoecovers that go?
Alban (04:12):
You guys have been watching too many movies from
like the 1930s, like jazz era orsomething.
Kevin (04:17):
I like that.
I want you to wear a Gatsby tuxSame tux from the great Gatsby
All right, podfest, okay tux.
Alban (04:25):
Same tux from the great gatsby.
All right, pod fest.
Okay, it's gonna happen.
It's gonna be good.
You're gonna make friends.
You're gonna go to harry potterland if you want.
Yeah, and if this is reallykevin's goal for 2025, I'll be
wearing a great gatsby tux andGot.
Shit Fake Blutes.
Jordan (04:46):
So stupid.
I love it.
Kevin (04:47):
I don't want to give too much away, but we are also here
in Jacksonville, Florida.
The team here is working on themost unique swag that we've
ever attempted to bring to apodcast conference.
Alban (04:59):
To be clear, unique and good are not always the same.
Exactly as we said, with ourmarketing tips, there's overlap
sometimes.
Jordan (05:05):
We've established that, like a few episodes ago.
Kevin (05:08):
Anybody who's been a listener to this podcast
understands that every episodeis unique.
Very rarely are they good.
Jordan (05:13):
What other swag do we have?
So okay, so we're we've gotthis like secret unique swag,
and then what else do we havethat we're bringing?
Alban (05:20):
We're bringing a podcast achievement pins, so people
who've hit new achievements willbe getting those.
Jordan (05:25):
Yeah.
Alban (05:25):
We're going to have stickers.
We're going to have t-shirts.
Kevin (05:28):
In the VIP lounge, we'll bring our coasters out.
Alban (05:30):
Bring out our coasters.
Kevin (05:31):
Yeah, so standard Buzzsprout, how we normally roll
.
Jordan (05:35):
Yeah.
Kevin (05:35):
Really cool t-shirts, tons of stickers.
The achievement pins have beenaround for a year now, so come
you know, get updated on yourlatest achievement pins, and
this year we're trying somethingnew.
It might be a total flop, butwe're going to give it a go.
It might be awesome, but Ithink everyone should come by
the booth and see what we'reattempting.
Alban and I have a lot of workto do over the next week or so.
Jordan (05:54):
Yeah, well, and it's awesome because we actually got
family from road adventures, ofcycling, men, of leisure, and
they asked if we were going tohave the achievement pins.
So they'll be very excited tohear that we will have them at
the booth.
So come by the Expo Hall Ithink it opens at like 3 pm on
Thursday.
Come get your pins, say hi, getpictures with us, it'll be
great.
As of this recording, it's thefinal day of 2024.
(06:19):
And when I was putting thisoutline together, I was thinking
back on like how awesome thisyear has been for Buzzsprout,
and so I went to our new pagewhere we post like the
announcements and anything newto Buzzsprout.
And, holy cow, this year wasbananas for us.
I actually like copied some ofour new announcements over to
the outline, and so I kind ofwant to like look back on this a
(06:40):
little bit with you guys andsee, you know, what was your
favorite thing that weaccomplished this year for
Buzzsprout.
Alban (06:46):
Mine, I think, is pretty easy.
Jordan (06:48):
Okay.
Alban (06:48):
I've got two.
Okay, there you go.
I broke it already.
I mean, my favorite is that wereleased the iOS and Android
apps.
This is an idea that I know hasbeen going around in Kevin's
mind for like five years.
Jordan (07:02):
Yeah.
Alban (07:02):
Trying to make it work, trying to think of ways that it
could work out.
Kevin's like we got to do itand we found the right people
and we built these things prettyquickly and they just keep
getting better and better.
We've had a bunch of newreleases and I just really like
them.
I think I don't have like themetrics to prove that this is
the greatest decision and thegreatest idea of all time,
(07:24):
except that I really like them.
And we have a podcast and I nowsee my widget every day and I
see all of our downloads and Isee our progress and I see that
cool microphone design and Ijust like it and I click in and
I use it more, even when I'm atmy desk with my computer.
It's more accessible to get tocertain things inside of
(07:45):
Buzzsprout and so maybe I'mactually more of a user of this
feature, but that's probably myfavorite thing that we did this
year.
Jordan (07:53):
Yeah, I agree with you on that and I think that you
know, having a native app reallyopened a lot of doors for us to
have more features, moreaccessibility, more fun with the
product.
So, yeah, I can see that forsure.
Kevin (08:11):
Yeah, I'm going to be boring because I have the same
answer.
Everything like 2024 for me isall the achievements we made in
mobile.
Yeah, one of the things I'mmost proud of.
And, jordan, this might be thewrong way because I know you
don't love ratings and reviews,but the Buzzsprout app in the
iOS app store has over athousand ratings.
Jordan (08:23):
The average is 4.9, which is insanely high Mind
blowing to me, yeah.
Kevin (08:27):
Yeah, it was something that we talked a lot about when
we were building the app makingsure that we came out strong.
Like you hear about apps all thetime and when you go search
them up in the app store and youlook at them like it's never a
good feeling when you see thatthing with a 2.5 star rating or
a three star rating.
I got some stuff for Christmasthat required getting an app to
make it work and I'm like, oh, Ijust looked the app up and I
(08:49):
got to download this thing tomake it work and it only has
three stars.
This is going to be garbage,terrible experience, and so we
wanted to build something thatwas substantial enough, that was
just a strong enough foot outthe door to make sure that when
people saw it in the app store,it gave them a good feeling of
confidence that this is going tobe good.
It's going to be added to myexperience.
It's worth your timedownloading, installing and
(09:10):
learning how to use.
You know a different experienceand different UI, even though
it's the same product.
Here we are almost a full yearlater from the initial release
and we're at 4.9 stars.
I'm just really proud of that.
Like that actually really doesexceed my expectations for.
Jordan (09:25):
All right, so I think my answer is actually a little bit
different from yours.
I am very aestheticallymotivated person, like I like
things to be pretty.
What was so exciting about thisyear for Buzzsprout was not
just that we have this reallyfun rebranding Now we have this
like lightning bolt and allthese like beautiful colors with
(09:46):
it and it just looks gorgeous.
But we also redesigned like thepodcast websites and the
dashboard, and it's just so funfor me because I just I like
when things look really good andI enjoy using things so much
more when they look just pretty.
Alban (10:02):
I'd like to point out Jordan, great answer, but you
picked three things.
You know how to do that, butit's over the umbrella.
I like that.
Everything looks better.
And then you picked everydesign.
Jordan (10:15):
I was trying to like sneak that in, and I didn't even
mention like how much I lovethat now you can display fan
mail on your website, which isanother thing.
I'm just going to like connecteverything together, so I get my
one thing and it's actuallyfour.
Kevin (10:33):
I get it.
So you're saying in 2024 wasthe year of Buzzsprout's glow up
?
Jordan (10:38):
Yes, yes.
Kevin (10:40):
And you know, I think it aligns right with the life cycle
of the product.
So this year we also celebratedour 15 year anniversary.
So if you think about the lifecycle of a human anyway, like
when we first launchedBuzzsprout.
It's kind of like this baby.
All babies are cute, right?
I mean they're a little pudgy,they got rolls, and some have
hair and some don't, but they'recute and that lasts for a
(11:03):
little while.
You know through I don't knowelementary school age.
But then everyone enters theirawkward stage, right Adolescence
.
You start to get, you know, youget some pimples.
You don't know what to do withyour hair.
Jordan (11:14):
Trying to figure out your style, yeah.
Kevin (11:16):
Yeah, you know you're awkward.
You're.
You know, somebody who was,might've been super athletic is
now not as athletic becausetheir body's growing faster and
they're getting used to it andeverything there.
So they look awkward, they moveawkwardly.
Middle school was awkward, yeah, they move awkwardly.
Mill school is awkward, yeah,and Buzzsprout had a little bit
of that right.
Yeah, but right around 15 yearsold they're kind of.
You know, they're stepping intothat puberty stage.
They're starting to glow up alittle bit.
They're starting to, you know,tuck in their shirt.
(11:38):
They're working on theirhygiene, they're brushing their
hair more regularly.
Kevin, you have like boys atthis age, I know right in step
with where they are.
Alban (11:47):
I'm going to have to send this over to them and be like
this is how your dad feels aboutyou.
You're finally hitting yourglow up stage.
Yeah, they would agree.
Jordan (11:54):
It's like Buzzsprout had its quinceañera and it came out
with its gorgeous ball gown and, just like went down the stairs
you know, like Scarlett O'Harastyle.
Yeah, that's what it was.
Kevin (12:04):
The braces are off.
Jordan (12:05):
Yeah.
Kevin (12:06):
Yeah, and it's really starting to hit.
Jordan (12:08):
Alban, how are we doing on the branding message?
Alban (12:14):
We're off, oh man, but I think there's lots of little
ones, and I recently got thisemail from Superhuman, which is
like a email client that I use.
And they just kind of listed outeverything they'd done over the
year, and I really liked itbecause I went through it and
there were certain ones that Iremember.
I saw the announcement and Ithought that might be useful for
(12:35):
me, but I never dug into it andit was nice to see it all in
one place so that if there wassomething that was you know, I
was like, oh, I should go back,I could.
So could we kind of go throughmaybe kind of the top line level
announcements through the year,even if they weren't our number
one or one of Jordan's sixfavorites?
Okay?
Jordan (12:53):
Yeah, absolutely Okay, so I actually timeline this out
for us.
So February 20th we addedYouTube and YouTube Music to the
podcast directories, and thenon March 3rd, we released
Buzzsprout for iOS.
Kevin (13:03):
Yes.
Jordan (13:04):
April 26th.
We made it so you can run adson specific podcasts.
Alban (13:08):
Run ads on specific podcasts.
So made it so you can run adson specific podcasts.
Run ads on specific podcasts.
So that's a Buzzsprout adsfeature where if you want to
target Buzzcast only and youwanted to run an ad with us, you
could buy an ad throughBuzzsprout and target only our
show and if we pick it up thenyou get to run it only on
Buzzcast and you don't getspread around to other shows.
Right, yeah, what was the nextone?
Jordan (13:29):
Next was one of my favorites.
We added fan mail on May 3rdand then on May 24th we added
the ability to back up yourpodcast episodes.
And then June 12th, chaptermarkers we're starting to work
in Spotify.
Alban (13:43):
This is one of the things I really loved these small
little tweaks that we figuredout a way after a while to make
it all work in Spotify and makeit so if you add dynamic content
, then everything's stilladjusted.
Spotify had that show notes wayof doing it, but the downside
is those are static.
Jordan (14:01):
Yeah.
Alban (14:02):
And now they easily break .
But this way, chapter markersare going to work in Spotify, no
matter what.
Jordan (14:08):
Yeah, basically, when we add a feature that removes a
workaround for a podcaster,that's a good thing.
Alban (14:13):
Yeah, that's a very good thing.
Jordan (14:15):
And then June 24th we released Buzzsprout for Android
and July 1st was the Buzzsproutrebrand and redesign, which is
crazy, looking at that, likehaving the app come out and then
, like basically a week later,we announced like a redesign.
Alban (14:30):
That, honestly, to me feels like more than a year ago.
Jordan (14:33):
I know, is that weird?
Alban (14:34):
Doesn't it feel like that to you, Kevin?
Kevin (14:35):
The rebrand launch, yeah it feels like a long time.
Well, I mean, we did work on itfor a very long time before we
released it publicly.
Jordan (14:42):
That's true.
Kevin (14:47):
And I do remember, you know, the decision that we made
about why it released almostwhat was it a week later?
you said Jordan than the Androidlaunch, and that was because we
didn't want to have to reskinthe app right after we launched
it, and so we tried to keep themtight.
I think we had two builds onewith the old logo, one with the
new and so we did publish itjust to make sure we got
approval in the app store, andthen quickly released it with a
new build that had all the newerlogo, assets and everything,
(15:13):
and then, since people are goingto be downloading, that then we
had to publicly do the rebrandannouncement.
Jordan (15:16):
It was a hectic summer scheduling all that stuff.
Well, in looking at September.
So September 9th we added lockscreen widgets.
September 11th we redesignedthe podcast websites.
Alban (15:22):
That one was big yeah.
Jordan (15:24):
I know it was a big one.
Alban (15:25):
That was a big project Every time I see them I'm like I
feel so much better.
Oh, it's so good Because we'dhad the last version of the
podcast websites.
We'd made updates over theyears but, like the core, piece
of that was made I don't know,like 2016,.
2018 was when we rebuilt themand they got updates, but the
(15:46):
core was from back then and thenew ones are so much cleaner.
Jordan (15:47):
And then September 19th we got our IAB version 2.2
certification, which was a beast.
And then September 26th weupdated the podcast website
customizer, which was anotherreally big, very cool project.
So September was a big monthfor us.
Kevin (16:04):
Yeah, so a couple of weeks between the launch of the
new customizer and the newwebsites.
They were two big projectsright, and so we didn't want to
hold back the new websites fromeverybody while we polished up
the experience of customizingyour website.
So you're using the old UI tocustomize this you know very new
, cool website and a few weekslater then you got a new, fresh
(16:25):
UI to make updating that easier.
Jordan (16:27):
Yeah, and then October 7th, we had the ability to
create custom mid-rollplacements, which was so
exciting because that was areally big request from our
podcasters.
Kevin (16:37):
Some podcasters.
Some podcasters, not all ofthem.
Alban (16:39):
It was one of those features that we would hear
about, and yet it was a smallpercentage, that it matters a
lot too, and so it's nice to beable to build it for them.
And then the end of October wedid the new home dashboard.
So all the learnings we hadfrom doing the mobile apps and
having this kind of like landingpage because for years we'd had
the landing page and Buzzsproutwas just the episodes page,
(17:02):
which I kind of liked because itwas always encouraging like
time to upload a new episode butnow we have the home dashboard
which kind of sends you out toall the different things you
need to do in Buzzsprout so youcan kind of stay motivated, stay
on top of your podcast,continually make progress.
Some days that progress isuploading a new episode, but
sometimes it's digging intostats or it's setting up your
(17:25):
website or doing something else.
Jordan (17:27):
Or learning more about how to be a great podcaster.
I still get really excited whenI go into my Buzzsprout
dashboard and I see an updatefrom, like the Buzzsprout blog
or Alban, when you posted like anew video on YouTube.
It's just so fun for me to seethose things come up and, you
know, just be refreshed in likereal time, basically.
So I just love that.
(17:47):
And then, of course, wefinished this year with adding
the home screen widgets, whichwas a big deal because people on
Android couldn't get the lockscreen widgets, so this is a
present for them.
Kevin (17:59):
Yep, and, as we announced last week, just the shared
Instagram stories, which is justa tease of some new ideas that
we might be thinking about.
It's a very cool feature, butit's also like testing some
ideas that we have aroundsharing.
Jordan (18:12):
Kevin, you're just being a big tease this episode.
You're teasing like new swagthat we're doing.
Kevin (18:19):
Sorry, not meaning to, but yeah, ideas are ideas until
they're real, and so happy totalk about some ideas that we
have, but no commitments on anyof this stuff, but I do.
We really like the idea.
It's not a secret, of coursewe're podcasters as well as
builders of podcast software, sowe like the idea of making it
easy to share your stuff.
You create stuff and then youhave to promote it, and so all
(18:43):
the time we're trying to thinkabout what are tools that we can
put in the hands of podcastersto make sharing and spreading
the word about what you're doingand what you're creating easier
.
Alban (18:51):
Well, jordan, thanks for pulling all that together.
I really love looking at thelist.
I mean, there's multiple thingsin here that, in my mind, feel
like they were longer than ayear ago.
I recently did this past yearreview where I kind of looked
back at a bunch of the thingsthat I'd done personally over
the last year, and it's kind ofnice to do this for Buzzsprout
(19:13):
and see all the work that we didon the product side, and
there's so many more projectsthan I'd remembered and I'm
excited to see what we do nextyear.
We never plan more than sixweeks in advance, so we are just
now starting to come up withideas for the beginning of
January and February, but I'msure at the end of next year,
2025, the year that feels fakewe're going to be looking back
at another list, just this big.
Jordan (19:38):
Buckle up because I have a wild story about a PayPal
influencer scam.
Yes, this story is so good butso infuriating at the same time.
So I saw this in a pod news,james Cridland.
Linked to this, there's aYouTube video by Megalag where
he investigates honey.
Have you heard of honey?
Alban (19:58):
Yeah, the Chrome extension.
Kevin (19:59):
Yeah, yeah, honey, the Chrome extension.
But first let me understand thesource.
What was the YouTuber's name?
Jordan (20:04):
Megalag.
Kevin (20:04):
Megalag.
Is this like a popular YouTuber?
Alban (20:08):
Growing Like.
He was definitely less than amillion subscribers before he
did this and the video is nowlike 13 million views in like
nine days.
Okay.
Jordan (20:18):
Yeah.
Alban (20:19):
So James linked to it when it was a.
The video had not taken offwhen I first watched it before
our Snapcast or whatever ourQuickcast last week, and then it
just keeps blowing up sincethen.
Kevin (20:31):
Okay, so are we going into the story with the
assumption that this is true,like this is good journalistic
findings, or I believe that thisis good journalistic findings.
Jordan (20:41):
He spent a lot of time.
He was very thorough.
The video is like 28 minutes, Ithink is long and it's dense.
So he did a lot of interviewsfrom some of the influencers
that got scammed.
He looked under the hood forhow the scam is operating.
It's pretty well done, so Ihighly recommend that you watch
the video.
Alban (21:00):
Honey is this browser extension that basically sits in
Chrome and always is checkingthe pages you go to, and so
anytime you hit a checkout page,whether it be Amazon or it's a
Shopify page or it's anywhereelse, it says hey, do you want
us to find you some coupon codes?
And you know those coupon sites.
(21:20):
They have all the coupon codesand you can go through yourself
and like, copy and paste them inhoping to get 15% off or
something.
Honey runs all of those couponcodes.
This is what they say they do,and they figure out which one
will save you the most money.
So you pretty much do no extrawork and at the end of the day
you get like a nice coupon codethat saves you money.
Jordan (21:41):
Yeah.
Alban (21:42):
And what's happening is pretty much no matter what,
honey was giving themselvescredit for your sale.
And so this digs into the wholeworld of affiliate marketing,
where somebody does a video or apodcaster talks about a product
and we say, hey, you reallymight like Jocko Go.
(22:03):
Kevin drinks Jocko Go, he lovesit, and here's the link.
And if you clicked on that linkto go buy Jocko Go, because
Kevin's talked about it 15 times, then Kevin might get an
affiliate commission for it.
You buy $10 of Jocko Go and hegets $1 himself, but then comes
in this honey extension.
(22:23):
So, jordan, tell us what thisscam is.
Jordan (22:26):
So basically what happens is you have honey and
you put the Jocko Go from Kevinin your cart, you go to checkout
and then Honey's extension popsup and it says, hey, we might
have a coupon for you.
And you go, oh great, I can getsome like 10% off of this maybe
.
And so you click the extension,it runs it and it goes sorry,
(22:46):
no coupons.
But, and then what happens underthe hood is that they then
remove Kevin's affiliate cookiethat gives him credit for the
purchase and they put PayPal'saffiliate cookie in there, and
so, by doing nothing, they getthe affiliate income for that
(23:07):
purchase.
Alban (23:07):
So Kevin told you about Jocko Go 15 times.
Someone clicked the link andthe person who got a dollar is
the Honey browser extension byPayPal.
Jordan (23:17):
Yeah, megalac actually had a really good example, like
real life example, of how thiswould not work in real world.
So if you go to a store and youhave a sales rep that sells you
like, let's say, an appliance,and he goes, here's my card.
And then you take that cardthat gives him like credit for
the sale, the commission.
And when you go up to thecounter they say, hey, who was
(23:39):
your salesman?
You hand them that card and ithas his name on it.
Honey is like the person thatcomes up and they go, hey, would
you like a coupon for thatappliance?
And you go, oh great, sure.
And then they like steal theperson's commission card.
Alban (23:53):
Right.
Jordan (23:53):
And then they put their own in its place, and then they
get the commission for that sale, not the actual salesman that's
on the floor.
Alban (24:00):
To be clear, that is something that happens in retail
.
Jordan (24:03):
Does it?
Alban (24:04):
Yeah, my sister similar.
My sister used to work atBanana Republic and she might be
on the floor helping someonewith clothing.
You're cleaning up the dressingroom, you're getting the sizes,
so you work together for 20, 30minutes.
They go and buy a pair of jeansand then when you go up and you
buy the pair of jeans, they say, hey, did anybody help you?
Well, you might go, oh, sarahdid, and they go great and they
(24:26):
put down Sarah, so she gets likewhatever percentage of those
jeans, they go great.
Jordan (24:30):
And they put down.
Alban (24:31):
Sarah, so she gets like whatever percentage of those
jeans Okay.
But sometimes multiple peopleare working the floor and also
running the registers and so youknow, Jimmy may be out there
and go hey, did anybody help you?
And you say Sarah did.
He goes, okay, and he types inJimmy, and now Jimmy gets that
sale.
And so there's people who dosteal commissions and then they
get fired from retail for doingit and it's wild that the other
(24:53):
people doing it is a browserthat does tell you this is what
we're doing, run by PayPal, thatthey bought for $4 billion Like
this isn't a small company.
This is a massive, massivecompany doing a ton of work,
doing a ton of work, and allit's doing is pretty much is
(25:13):
millions and millions andmillions of affiliate codes
every day are gettingoverwritten by Honey's browser
extension and essentially juststealing those commissions from
any creator who is out theretrying to do affiliate codes.
Jordan (25:24):
And what's even worse is these are the creators that are
promoting Honey.
They're the ones spreading theword about Honey.
They're the ones being paid byhoney to get other people to
install the honey extension, andthen honey goes and steals
their affiliate income from it.
I mean it's just wild.
Alban (25:39):
That's ironic.
I think that's less bad.
Jordan (25:41):
Well how is that less bad?
Alban (25:43):
Okay, so Mr Beast is trying to sell you something, or
MKBHD or Linus Tech Tips, let'slook on those.
So they're talking about a techproduct and they say install
the Honey browser and they'llhelp you out and go buy this
hard drive.
And then you go buy the harddrive and you installed Honey,
which they told you to do.
So they got paid by Honey toconvince you to install it, and
(26:05):
then it stole their affiliatecode.
Okay, at least they knew whatthey were telling you to install
.
The person I feel really badfor is Kevin on Buzzcast telling
you about Jocko Go.
Kevin says go buy Jocko Go.
He never told you to buy Honey.
He never got money from Honey.
He had nothing to do with thisstupid browser extension.
And then it's sitting on yourbrowser because you watched a Mr
(26:29):
Beast video that said installHoney.
And now it steals Kevin'saffiliate code.
Jordan (26:33):
Yeah.
Alban (26:34):
Kevin is just the victim here.
You got nothing.
The only person who gotanything was Mr Beast, who said,
and Honey, who worked togetherto set up this arrangement.
Kevin (26:44):
Yeah, I mean in defense of Honey, which I'm not going to
make a strong case of defensefor them.
That's probably for the best,but the way the affiliate system
itself sort of is at fault aswell.
So is Honey doing something bad?
Yes, they probably are.
They're taking advantage of asystem that does have a flaw,
and the flaw in most affiliateprograms, the way they work, is
(27:06):
it's sort of like the last inthe last attribute Last click,
last click, last attribute.
Alban (27:10):
Last click.
Kevin (27:10):
Last click attribution Last click gets the commission
In real life.
That rarely is how it works.
Most people are kind enough orsmart enough, like the retail
example that Alban gave.
If you're shopping withsomebody for a couple hours and
finding all these clothes, andthen that person's like oh I
actually I'm at the end of myshift and I got to run and pick
up my kid there's somebody who'sgoing to come in and be like
I'll check them out for you andI'm going to give you the
(27:32):
commission.
And then that person might belike oh well, split it, like
take 10% for yourself, orsomething Like people are nice.
Generally In the onlineaffiliate world, you don't have
all those tools available to you.
Usually there's, and so thiscan happen in other scenarios,
like if somebody's watching.
We don't do a lot of affiliatemarketing for Buzzsprout, but
(27:54):
let's just say we did.
We could have invested hundredsof thousands of dollars over
years building up a YouTubechannel and then linking to all
these different products thatwe're reviewing microphones and
all that other kind of stuff andpeople could watch our whole
library and then finally decidethey're going to buy this one
ATR 2100X but then they justhappen to watch one more
reviewer and it could be thefirst video they've ever watched
from that person.
Jordan (28:13):
Yeah.
Kevin (28:13):
And then they say you know what?
Buzzsprout told me this for thepast five years to buy this mic
.
And now this one person alsosaid it.
Also, I'm going to just goahead and do it, mostly because
of Buzzsprout's recommendation,but they actually clicked the
link from somebody else's video.
It's just how it works, and soI'm not defending Honey here,
but I think that's going to betheir defense when they
ultimately probably have a classaction lawsuit or the
(28:34):
Department of Justice orsomebody brings some sort of
case against them at some point.
They're probably going to saythis is how affiliate marketing
works and so we're notnecessarily doing anything wrong
.
Now, it could be highlyobjectionable, you could have
moral problems with it, but isit illegal?
I don't know.
Again, the courts will decidethat, but I'm not defending them
.
I'm not defending them, but Ido say that's how the affiliate
system works and for them to putthemselves in a position to
(28:55):
basically always get the lastclick, because by installing
that thing, you know, honey'salways going to prompt you and
it's a very tempting offer of oh, you're about to check out, do
you want us to check for coupons?
Jordan (29:04):
Yeah.
Kevin (29:05):
Yes, check for coupons.
Okay, now we're the affiliateright.
Alban (29:08):
This is how all those coupon sites work.
Have you ever noticed?
You search for coupons for Gapand you pull up and it's like
here's all the coupon codes forGap.
And they always say, like clickto apply coupon.
It never shows you the name.
The reason you click is becauseyou click and then it runs you
through their URL which appliesthe cookie to you.
(29:30):
So it says, hey, we're the oneswho recommended them and so it
doesn't matter what the couponcode is.
They try to claim credit.
And this is also what happenswith search arbitrage, where
sometimes you search forsomething like Buzzsprout and
then you get a Buzzsprout promocode ad and you're like, oh,
I'll take that.
And you click it and you're onsome weird site.
(29:51):
They're trying to get a cookieto get like a refer, a friend
code for Buzzsprout or something, and so we have to track those
people down and shut them down.
But this happens all over theaffiliate world.
They're scams.
Part of it is that what we'retalking about now that it's just
so effective that Honey hasdone it better than ever that
they're using all of the biggestaffiliate marketers in the
(30:13):
world to get this out to theworld, and so there were like 20
million people using the Honeyextension, which is really high.
But then there's other things inhere, kevin.
They're even worse.
Even if they don't find acoupon code, they change the
affiliates themselves.
They hide coupon codes becausethey actually partner with the
merchants.
So let's say I went to a Idon't know, I'm buying from a
(30:37):
clothing company.
Let's go back to Gap.
We're buying at Gap and there'sactually a 10% coupon out there
and they say we'll find thebest coupons.
Well, they can work with Gapand Gap just says tell people
it's a 5% coupon max.
And so they run it and they'relike wow, we found the 5%.
And they're like I guess that'sthe very best one and it
(30:57):
applies.
Even though Honey will knowabout bigger coupons, if they
work with the merchant, theywill actively limit it so that
you don't get the largest sale.
Jordan (31:06):
Yeah, well, and on top of that they also have this like
Honey Gold slash, like PayPalrewards program sort of thing.
So if the coupons aren't doingit for you, then they'll like
pop up and say like hey, you canearn 300 PayPal or honey gold
for this purchase and you gogreat, and so you click it to
apply that so you can receiveyour 300 gold.
(31:28):
And yeah, megalag, he ran athing where he signed up for an
affiliate link through NordVPNand then he tried to use his own
affiliate code to purchasesomething from Nord and so he
made the purchase and he wassupposed to get like a $35
commission but he applied thatlike honey gold thing because
(31:48):
that popped up and they took his$35 commission but him as a
consumer received 89 cents inrewards for that purchase.
It just like it doesn't.
I don't know, it's pretty crazy.
Kevin (32:02):
It's brutal, but I think this report could be very
interesting.
If the video is I don't want touse the term going viral, but I
don't know what else to say itis going viral.
Obviously, most people, whoprobably are big on YouTube,
have heard about this by now orseen this video, and I wonder if
the most effective recourse forthis is that I imagine
(32:23):
influencers are probably goingto start creating their own
anti-honey videos and campaignsagainst them which could be way
more effective than a classaction lawsuit or the DOJ coming
in and saying they've harmedconsumers on a mass level and so
we're going to step in.
That stuff usually results ineveryone getting a check for $26
(32:43):
, but the company can stilloperate under modified rules and
all this other kind of stufflike that.
If you have even the topthousand channels on YouTube
creating anti-honey like, youneed to get this off your
computer.
It's harming creators, it'sharming everybody who creates
this content that you love, andthey're stealing all our
commissions and all that kind ofstuff.
That would be brutal, like thatwould absolutely kill the
(33:03):
product.
Jordan (33:04):
Yeah, especially since they rely on lack of
transparency for this businessmodel.
Alban (33:09):
Right.
Yeah, I think the argument thatwhat they're doing is illegal,
that's going to be tougher.
It may seem it may be slightlydeceptive practices that they
say we're getting the bestcommission but then they don't
always do it.
That might be deceptive.
There may be something aboutthem overriding the cookie that
could get them in trouble.
But this was the business model.
(33:29):
Paypal paid $4 billion becauseit was well known in 2020 that
they were trying to get lastclick attribution for affiliate
sales and by having a verypopular browser extension, they
could make millions and millionsor billions in affiliate
commissions.
It's definitely bad forcreators.
So if you are running thisextension, I would consider
(33:52):
turning it off, because you'renot going to really save a ton
of money.
You might actually get lessdeals and you're definitely
going to cost creators and otherpeople who work off affiliate
commission.
You'll cost them money.
There actually has been a classaction lawsuit filed since the
video came out.
Jordan (34:09):
Oh really.
Alban (34:10):
On behalf of the creators .
So Wendover Productions versusPayPal.
It's a class action.
Now, with class actions, youoften get a bunch of people who
file them pretty quickly andthen you'll figure out which
one's actually going to be therepresentative and you'll
certify the class.
So there's a long way to go,but there was probably this one
and there might be another, I'dimagine, on behalf of consumers
(34:32):
who are harmed, because it's notjust the creators.
There's harm for the consumers.
This is maybe the most damningfor Honey overall is when this
video came out, they had 20million users on the Chrome
extension web store.
It's down to 17 million.
So 3 million people have goneand removed the Honey extension
(34:54):
from Chrome.
At least, that's what it lookslike from screenshots I saw on
Twitter.
Kevin (34:57):
Yeah, and there's a Firefox extension and there's a
Safari extension and there mighteven be an Edge extension, but
I think almost every majorbrowser now has an extension
store.
Alban (35:06):
Yeah, and I mean that's something like 15% losing 15% of
their user base in a very shortamount of time and a very big
hit to their brand reputation.
I'm sure there'll be anotherlawsuit against Megalag, which
you'll probably need to raisesome money to defend.
Even if it's all true, it'sstill extremely expensive to
defend yourself in litigationlike this.
(35:28):
That's true.
But it's a great video.
I highly recommend watching it.
It's interesting.
It's very interesting for meworking with creators, working
with affiliate work where weactually have paid affiliates in
the past.
It's interesting to see it fromall the different angles.
So great video and definitelygo check it out.
Jordan (35:47):
All right, so let's get into SoundOff.
So, first off, we have a fanmail message from Kevin from
when Life Gives you Lemons.
This entire process fromresearch to release has been a
challenge.
Get into sound off.
So, first off, we have a fanmail message from Kevin from
when life gives you lemons.
This entire process fromresearch to release has been a
challenge, since it's just mywife and I.
Our audience is disabilitycentered and we are not really
in this for the money, but dotry to constantly grow.
We basically learned everythingabout podcasting from
buzzsprout, so thank everyonethere for us, awesome.
(36:10):
Thank you so much, kevin.
I'm happy to hear that it isdifficult to you know, bootstrap
your podcast and just be a oneor two person team for
podcasting, but I'm really gladthat we were able to make it a
little bit better for you.
Kevin (36:22):
Yeah, thanks so much for writing in.
That's great, all right,barnabas from the Kids Code
podcast wrote in and said Ilistened to one of my earlier
episodes.
Thank you, barnabas, he did hishomework.
I don't know if that's, is iteasier to do as your kid?
You're just in the habit ofdoing homework.
That was great.
He said he listened to one fromabout a year and a half ago and
it was really interesting tohear A couple of things.
That stood out was he soundedmuch younger, and so he noticed
(36:44):
that he also used some differentmusic back then and he is now
switching voices.
So I guess he's doing like acharacter podcast where he's
switching between differentvoice characters and he's able
to switch between them muchfaster than he used to be able
to do that.
So he said it still feels a bitawkward, but at the same time
he's getting more knowledgeableand just improving his podcast
overall.
So that's great.
Barnabas, Thank you so much fordoing that homework.
(37:05):
Also, he liked the marketingidea that I think Alban gave him
to do.
Was that Alban or Jordan's?
To do the cipher cards?
Jordan (37:10):
It was Alban, yeah, yeah to do the cipher cards.
Kevin (37:12):
He's going to give that a try, so that's awesome, very
cool.
Good job, barnabas.
Jordan (37:16):
All right, so what should our sound off question be
for our next episode?
We didn't have one last time,which is why the sound off is so
short this time, but I don'tknow.
Alban (37:36):
I think I'm thinking sometimes, when we ask people,
what are you proud of, theythink what will other people be
proud of me for?
And so what I really want tohear is like, what did you
accomplish that you're proud of?
Because sometimes I'm proud ofmyself for things that I
wouldn't even share, because I'mlike it's not a very big
accomplishment, but I know forme personally, it's an area that
I'm not very good at, and soI'm impressed with myself.
I'm happy that I made a firststep.
Jordan (37:56):
Yeah.
So it can be something thatyou're, you know, outwardly
proud of or something thatyou're just like.
This was a personal growththing for me.
Go ahead and tap the link inthe show notes to send in a
response, for what are you mostproud of for accomplishing in
your podcast in 2024.
And we will be sure to readthat in the next episode.
So, as always, thanks forlistening and keep podcasting.
(38:20):
Guess what I'm gonna do tonight.
Kevin (38:23):
Ooh, New Year's Eve, what are you doing?
Jordan (38:25):
I'm going to watch football Probably the first time
since I wanna say 2004.
Alban (38:32):
Wait, who's playing tonight?
Jordan (38:33):
It's going to be BSU versus Penn State for the Fiesta
Bowl.
Kevin (38:39):
Okay, Wait, wait, BSU Boise.
Alban (38:41):
Boise State.
This is your Boise State.
Jordan (38:43):
This is my Boise.
Alban (38:44):
State With the blue field .
Jordan (38:45):
Smurf, turf, baby, yeah, so I'm going to get to watch
some football tonight and I'mhoping I enjoy it.
Kevin (38:54):
Good for you, I'm proud of you, thank you?
Are you planning on likeengaging the game or are you
just going to a social eventwhere the game will be on?
Jordan (39:01):
It's going to be at my house.
It's just going to be me and myhusband watching it, but yeah,
we're going to watch the game.
It's not going to be social.
Okay, we'll probably eat lotsof chips and salsa, though.
Kevin (39:10):
So yeah, you're really going to watch the football game
.
Jordan (39:12):
I'm going to do it.
I'm going to watch it, becauseI watched the Fiesta Bowl back
in I don't know, when I was inhigh school.
It was like that game where itwas a bunch of like trick plays
and stuff and BSU won.
So I mean, we love a goodunderdog story, so I get very
excited about it.
Alban (39:25):
I have actually been to a Boise state football game
Jordan.
Jordan (39:28):
Have you really?
Alban (39:29):
I went to.
I want to say it was the firstgame Boise State Georgia in 2011
.
And Georgia's play calling wasso bad that the drunk guy
sitting like a row ahead of usjust kept yelling out what play
we were going to do.
We did it and Boise State alsoknew what it was.
So he'd be like run up themiddle and then we'd run it
(39:51):
right in the middle and stuffhe's like pass to the middle and
then we'd run it right in themiddle and stuff he's like pass
to the flat.
And then we did it.
I was like okay, we need a newplay calling.
Jordan (39:59):
That's really bad.
Alban (40:02):
But it's like the one memory from that game and I
laugh every time I think of it.
This guy who is, I wouldn'thave trusted to drive, but he
apparently was some kind offootball savant.
Jordan (40:11):
Wow, I drive, but he apparently was some kind of
football savant.
Wow.
I don't know if this is true,but I heard that if we win this
game, Boise State is going to beplaying in Florida next.
Alban (40:25):
It could be.
The bowl games are confusing tome.
So now we're down to what?
Is it?
Eight teams, and so there's acouple more rounds until the
national championship.
National championship, I think,is in Atlanta this year, but
we've got at least one of thegames is down in Miami.
I think that's the Orange Bowl,maybe.
Jordan (40:39):
I think that's right.
Alban (40:41):
So, jordan, if Georgia wins tomorrow and Boise State
wins today, we have to go toMiami.
Jordan (40:47):
Yeah, we do, that'd be so fun.
Alban (40:50):
I think it'll happen while you're down here right or
right around it.
Jordan (40:53):
I think so.
So, yeah, maybe we'll have tolike carve out some time and be
like sorry, got to take PTOright before podcast.
Kevin (41:01):
Have you ever been to a football game in person?
Jordan (41:04):
No, I've never been to a football game in person.
I think I tried to go to like aBSU game when I was in college
there, but like it was just toomany, it was too busy, it was
like really crazy, so I justdidn't go.
Alban (41:15):
Every sporting event is better in person, I think, like
it's, in my opinion, so muchbetter.
I don't ever watch hockey and Iwent to a hockey game this year
and I was like this is so muchfun in person.
Jordan (41:28):
Hockey games are stupid fun.
Alban (41:29):
I don't really like watching basketball and I went
to like pro basketball games andI'm like this is a blast.
The energy at sporting eventsis just so high and you're
connected to all these peoplewho are like riding all this
wave of emotion with you.
I love that experience.
It's like a concert, but insports it's a great thing to do.
Jordan (41:50):
The only sporting events I've ever been to.
So I went to one hockey gamethat was just so fun.
And then I've been to twobaseball games.
We did the Nationals at PodcastMovement and then I went to a
Mariners game when I was inSeattle one time and both of
them I found very boring.
So I don't know if baseball isjust not for me, but I would
love to go to a football gamesomeday and see how fun that can
(42:12):
be.
Alban (42:13):
One of my favorite photos I've ever seen online about a
baseball game.
There's a guy sitting inamazing seats at a baseball game
, like slouched, like lookingjust miserable, holding his
phone, and this photo is takenbehind him.
And what he searched is howmany innings are in a baseball
game and in the background youcan see it's the top of the
second inning and there's nineinnings minimum in a baseball
(42:36):
game.
And in the background you cansee it's the top of the second
inning and there's nine inningsminimum in a baseball game.
You're like, oh, this guy's gotlike three hours to go.
Jordan (42:42):
Oh my gosh, my father-in-law.
He came to visit us fromWashington this one time and he
was like, oh, I don't want tomiss this Mariners game while
I'm visiting.
Can we watch it at your place?
And we're like sure, whatever.
And we like bought something tobe able to stream it.
And this stupid game was like18 innings and the entire night.
We're just sitting in theliving room and I'm just sitting
there like hating life and Iwas just like I really wish we
(43:04):
didn't have to watch this stupidgame.
Yeah, I think.
Maybe.
Maybe I just don't likebaseball, I don't know.
Alban (43:14):
Baseball is just a different emotion than all other
sports because it's so muchmore laid back and calm and
there's much more like.
There's calm moments, and Ithink a lot of it is.
If you have played baseball andyou have a bit more
understanding of what's going onwith, like the pitch count,
then each pitch can have someweight.
But as a casual fan you're justlike no one's hitting the ball,
no one's hitting the ball, theyhit a ball, oh, it's over.
(43:34):
And I could see it being boring, especially if you're a little
bit more of a casual fan.
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