November 28, 2025 • 19 mins
We explore why filler words exist, when they help, and how to replace the noisy ones with breath, pause, and clean sentence endings. We share fast tools to calm nerves, better mic habits, and a pacing strategy that makes you sound confident without rushing.
Watch the full Huberman Labs episode: How to Speak Clearly & With Confidence | Matt Abrahams
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Alban (00:00):
I got back on social media, and one of the first
things I saw was actuallysomething that was good.
Jordan (00:05):
Nice.
Alban (00:06):
And so maybe I'm back.
I don't know.
Jordan (00:08):
I I don't think so.
I think you got lucky.
Alban (00:11):
I think I got lucky.
In between a bunch of likepolitical fighting, there was a
great tweet, at least I thoughta good tweet, from Andrew
Huberman, uh famous podcaster.
And it said the best protocolto eliminate filler words like
ums and ahs is in this video.
And he spoke with somebody whoI guess is a speech expert, Matt
(00:31):
Abrams.
And I watched this short clip,and it was about how to try to
land your sentences to removefiller words.
And it was convicting for mebecause what he's describing is
I have like the anti-pattern ofthis.
So maybe somebody else can jumpin and share.
Kevin (00:49):
What is the anti-pattern?
Alban (00:50):
But you never land the sentence, you just keep talking.
Okay, so I told this uh toKevin the other day because
Kevin now knows two of mysiblings.
And one of the patterns we haveis you're hearing a group of
five kids.
As soon as you get attentionfrom your parents as a child,
you have to kind of hold it andyou never ever let it go.
(01:11):
And the way you do it is bylots of filler words, and then
like you finish a sentence andimmediately start the second
one, and then you hold it, andthen you get a breath, and then
you go and you you always keepcontinuing.
Kevin (01:23):
Yeah.
Right.
Alban (01:23):
So you your stories just kind of stink and you ramble.
Yeah.
Kevin (01:26):
I have noticed this in the Brooke family.
They all one story just bleedsright into another story, bleeds
into another story.
And they're not all A plusstories, if we're being honest.
No, I think they tell four orfive stories and try to like get
one hit out of the four or fivethat they weep.
It's a numbers game for sure.
Jordan (01:45):
So I listened to the full clip of this.
Like the whole episode is overtwo hours long.
I I started it and then I wentto the place where he actually
went into the questions wheresomeone asked, like, what can I
do about filler words?
And it's interesting that youbring up growing up in a
household of five siblings aslike that's what formed your
(02:07):
speech patterns, because hetalks about how filler words
actually serve a purpose.
And he used to think they wereall bad, but they're not all bad
because some of them indicatethat, you know, you are about to
say something.
So you're holding your place sothat no one interrupts you.
And then he also talks abouthow there was research done
(02:28):
where kids have kind of gleanedfrom the way that adults speak
that when they say um or uh,it's almost like a flag that
what they're about to say isreally important.
And so that's ingrained in us.
And so what happens is when wehear a lot of people say, um,
(02:48):
and then they don't say anythingimportant or they say another
um or another uh, it irritatesus, it frustrates us in like
this really innate way.
So it makes sense to me thatyou would use a lot of filler
words to hold attention becauseyou're like holding your place,
like I'm about to say somethingreally important here.
So I need you to focus on me.
Alban (03:09):
You're letting people know I'm thinking through this.
So that makes sense.
There might be something with alittle bit more thought right
after the ums and ahs.
Jordan (03:18):
Yeah.
Alban (03:18):
It's one of the reasons I actually like so when we added
filler word removal, we didn'ttake them all out.
We only do ones with highconfidence, and that ends up
being ones with like spacearound them, ums and ahs that
are like back to back to back.
Jordan (03:33):
Yeah.
Alban (03:34):
It sounds a little bit better.
Like maybe we shouldn't betaking them all out.
I've shared this many times,but Barack Obama learned to add
them into his speech patternbecause he didn't have any, or
he'd somehow grown up withoutusing any.
And so it sounded unnatural topeople.
So when he ran for office, headded them in.
He did not have five siblings.
Kevin (03:52):
So he didn't.
Alban (03:55):
I don't maybe he got he got the healthier pattern.
So what do we do?
What are the protocols that wecan take to learn how to land a
sentence?
Jordan (04:04):
Okay, so what Matt Abrams said, one of the things
that he does to avoid fillerwords is you have to make sure
that you're breathing in becauseyou can't speak while you're
breathing in.
So that means you can't say afiller word while you're
breathing in.
And so the tip that he gave isto use up all your air as you
(04:26):
say your sentence and to landthe sentence, kind of like how a
gymnast would like jump andthen like, you know, stick the
landing.
You want to do the same thingwith your sentences.
And so you want to make surethat you land your phrases and
then at the end of the phrase,you take in air.
So instead of saying, um, whenyou're thinking, you're actually
just taking in air.
But I have to say, it wasfunny.
(04:47):
When I first heard this, I waslike, well, I don't know if this
is gonna work for a theaterperson like myself because I can
push out a lot of words beforeI run out of air.
Like it's all in there.
So I don't know.
Kevin (04:59):
Does the laugh, the laugh, does that count as a
filler word?
I feel like Jordan, you land alot of your sentences with a
laugh.
Jordan (05:05):
I do.
And actually, that's somethingI've been working on a lot
because it's sort of like anervous thing that I do
sometimes.
If I get like really nervous, Iget super giggly.
Kevin (05:13):
Oh, I have tips on this.
Oh, handling handling nerves.
Alban (05:16):
So we can, we can maybe if we have time, we can get into
some of that.
All right.
So the main protocol is you'retrying to end the amount of air
that you have in your lungs.
You're trying to get it all outat the period or the whatever
the terminal punctuation is.
It ends the sentence as you endyour breath so that you breathe
in between sentences.
And maybe there's a couplesentences in a row, but when it
(05:40):
ends is when your breath ends.
So you're not tempted to take abig um and then take a breath
after that.
Yeah.
Kevin (05:47):
I think it's a pretty good technique, especially for
public speaking.
And I think it could workpretty well in podcasting too,
depending on how good you got atlike honing this technique in.
But I do know also that one ofthe things that annoys
podcasters more than listeners,I think, but podcasters can be
self-conscious about whenthey're listening back to their
recording, they get consciousabout hearing themselves breathe
(06:09):
in the microphone.
And so I do think if you'redoing this, you don't want every
time you land a sentence, youdon't want to hear a big that
would that would probably driveme crazy too.
And so I think this could alsoplay into your microphone
technique.
Like land your sentence, pullyourself off the mic, and
breathe in.
That's the only thing I wouldadd specifically for podcasters,
because otherwise, you're justgonna end up in a spot where
(06:32):
instead of removing filler wordsfrom your recordings, you're
removing all these breathsounds.
Jordan (06:36):
Yes.
That's another thing I wasthinking about too, Kevin, as an
editor.
Alban (06:39):
Yeah, technique number two, it's gotta be breathe
through your nose.
You know, take a bigdiaphragmatic breath through the
nose.
In the pre-show, Kevin was uhlike, what is this word?
You can't use that word.
It just sounds so complicated.
Yeah, diaphragmatic breath.
Breathe with your belly, letyour belly come out a little
bit, take a big deep breaththrough your nose.
We're not gonna be a mouthbreather.
(07:00):
And if you do that, you're notgoing to have a big breath in
the mic.
Jordan (07:05):
I don't know.
To me, like those big breathscan also indicate excitement,
similar to how some filler wordsindicate to me, like, I don't
know.
Kevin (07:14):
I think I know what you're saying because I I did a
little bit of research.
Ha-da! Ooh, super exciting.
Jordan (07:19):
This is like the second episode where you've done some.
I'm all in.
Kevin (07:22):
I'm all in on the podcast now.
We're over 200 episodes.
Jordan (07:25):
I feel like it's you're finally buying in.
Kevin (07:27):
Yeah, we're gonna stick with this long term.
I'm gonna put some more effortin.
So I did some research, andwhat you're saying about it is
it shows excitement.
One of the tips that I have islike you can underline words in
your speech.
Jordan (07:40):
Like in the outline, right?
Kevin (07:42):
Like if you're reading a written page, you could have
underlined words, you could havebolded words or something.
How can you do that when you'respeaking?
And it's also easier toprobably do that in person.
Like you could use handgestures, you could show
excitement on your face.
If you're doing a video, youcould use some of those
techniques.
But if it's just audio, how doyou underline a word?
And the tip here was to markkeywords per sentence by slowing
(08:06):
down and emphasizing specificwords.
Jordan (08:09):
I see what you did there.
Kevin (08:10):
You see what I did?
Alban (08:10):
I feel like you're giving me some attitude.
That's what I hear.
By slowing down andemphasizing.
Right.
Those words were underlined.
Kevin (08:20):
Yeah.
Alban (08:21):
Audibly.
All right.
Well, I also did some research,Kevin, so I've got some other
tips.
Okay.
Let's hear them.
The belly breathing was themain one I got.
Kevin (08:29):
Yeah.
Alban (08:30):
But then I read this blog that said it helps you prevent
running out of air and vocalfry.
I didn't know that's what vocalfry was.
I know like kind of the nasallysound is vocal fry, but it's
running out of air.
Kevin (08:43):
Yeah, it makes sense.
It makes sense.
If you want to, if you want tomake your voice intentionally
sound a little fryy, you're notpushing out a lot of air to get
that sound.
Jordan (08:53):
Yeah.
Kevin (08:53):
And so it makes sense that it would happen
accidentally as you're runningout of air.
Jordan (08:57):
Yeah.
Kevin (08:57):
Uh, I have another one.
Okay.
A technique that I think thatI've gotten pretty good at,
which is to speak in shortclusters of two to three
sentences and then just pause.
I like doing this because Jordanand I were not going to talk
(09:20):
there.
So we were just seeing how longthis pause is going to be with
just the right amount of pause.
Jordan, please leave the wholepause.
Jordan (09:29):
I'm going to.
It's going to be in there.
I'm really sorry for ourlisteners that get confused and
trying to check their apps tosee if it's still playing.
Kevin (09:40):
I like doing it because I think it gives time for the
person that you're communicatingto to process what you just
said, and it gives you time tothink of like what's the next
point I want to make.
Jordan (09:49):
Yeah.
Kevin (09:50):
If you're constantly filling the space with a filler
word, with just random things.
All filler words are not alwaysums or ahs.
Sometimes they're just likehabitual things we say.
Like a lot of people will say,you know what I mean?
Or they'll say like, or they'llsay right.
They'll kind of ask questionsin the middle of talking.
And I think that takes awayfrom the effectiveness of what
(10:12):
you're trying to communicatebecause you just asked a
question after you said astatement.
So you're trying to get somefeedback, but that interrupts
the thought process.
Jordan (10:21):
So that kind of leads to on this episode, they were
talking about how reallyspeaking with confidence in
itself and not getting in yourhead and not thinking about like
constantly judging yourself ortrying to judge what other
people are thinking about whatyou're saying is probably the
best way to speak with moreconfidence.
(10:41):
And when you speak withconfidence, you don't use as
many filler words.
And so I think that trying toget comfortable with speaking
into a microphone or trying toget comfortable with asking
someone questions without fearof judgment might be one of the
best tips to remove filler wordsin your speech.
Alban (10:59):
I know that for sure for me.
Yeah.
If I'm judging what I'm sayingwhile I say it, I lose like 40
IQ points and I'm running out.
Kevin (11:09):
Me too.
Alban (11:10):
That's not good.
Kevin (11:11):
Yeah.
Alban (11:11):
But there's people, and I think my uncle is one of these
people who they make you feellike you're the smartest person
they've ever talked to.
Like they're such goodlisteners.
And when you're talking tosomeone who's just a really good
listener, you feel confident.
You feel like everything yousay makes sense.
And I think it makes you quitea bit smarter.
(11:32):
Or at least it makes whatyou're saying so much more
confident.
And I think actually what I'msaying is more likely to be
accurate.
Jordan (11:41):
I mean, it makes you a better communicator.
Alban (11:43):
Yeah, that's probably a better way of saying it.
I'm I'm a little bit nervousright now, so it's probably not
coming out right.
Jordan (11:50):
But it's true.
It when you're able to just saythings in a very like concise
way, it actually makes you soundmore intelligent.
Kevin (11:57):
You guys have mentioned nerves a few times.
Can we transition into nerves?
Sure.
And how to take control ofyour, I don't know, physical
reaction to whether you'republic speaking or recording a
podcast or anything like that.
Uh the first category here ispre-talk physical control and
it's basically stress reduction.
And so I have a coupletechniques that I'm gonna run by
(12:18):
you guys.
We could try them together ifyou want.
Let's do it.
Let's do it live.
Yeah, the first one is veryquick.
So we can try this one first,and then I'll just explain the
other two because they're alittle longer.
First one is calledphysiological psi.
And the way that you do this isyou do two short inhales and
then one long exhale.
And the promise here is that itwill reduce stress in under 10
seconds.
Alban (12:38):
This does work.
Should we practice this?
The way you do it is you take abig breath and then you take
another on top of it.
Yep.
You go and then a long exhale.
Do you feel less stressed?
Jordan (12:50):
Oh, that sounds good.
Alban (12:52):
Go like as much as you get on the first one.
You're trying to get as deep ofa breath, and then you pull
another one on top of it, andyou get so much more air, and
then you let the sigh go as longas you can.
The next one is called quadrantbreathing.
Kevin (13:09):
Maybe you've heard of this.
Oh, is this a square?
Box breathing.
Yeah, it's like box breathing,is another thing you pull, which
is a four-second inhale, afour-second hold, a four-second
exhale, and a four-second hold.
Jordan (13:20):
This works.
Kevin (13:21):
This takes a little bit longer, but what it does is it
calms your heart rate and itsteadies your voice.
So this is something you woulddo like five minutes before
you're gonna record or somethinglike that.
Just to reduce your stress,like right before you record,
you can do the quick inhales andlong exhale.
But if if you have a fewminutes before you start
recording, you can do some boxbreathing or quadrant breathing,
and that will calm your heartrate and steady your voice.
(13:42):
Yeah.
And there's also a warm-up hum,which is a low humming for 30 to
60 seconds, which vibrates thevagus nerve and soothes your
vocal tone.
Jordan (13:52):
Ariana Grande does this.
Kevin (13:54):
Oh, really?
Jordan (13:54):
Mm-hmm.
This is how she warms up.
Like she'll just hum for likean hour in the morning and she
just hums throughout the day andstuff.
And she said that that's whatshe does.
Kevin (14:02):
Well, there you go.
Jordan (14:03):
It works.
Kevin (14:04):
You could be the next Ariana Grande.
Jordan (14:06):
Yeah.
Kevin (14:08):
All right.
Next, next category.
I'll cover this quick.
Mental reframing.
Yes.
So instead of saying thingslike, I'm nervous, you change
that to I'm excited.
Alban (14:16):
All right.
So this, I remember the firsttime I heard it, this changed
how I saw a lot of things asbeing uh stressful into being
more excited.
Because I enjoy publicspeaking.
And there'd be times where I'mgoing on stage and I'd get
excited.
And there's times I was feelinglike anxious about it or
nervous about it.
And the insight that I thinkit's William James had is that
(14:40):
the physiological state, thefeelings in your body are the
same feelings.
They're just sometimes coded inour minds as I'm scared or I'm
anxious or I'm stressed.
And sometimes they're coded asI'm excited.
Like it's an arousal state forall of them.
It can either be a positivearousal state, like excitement,
(15:02):
and not or a negative arousalstate like stressed or anxious.
Jordan (15:07):
Yeah, or fearful.
Alban (15:08):
And now I just when I'm feeling that, I'm going, oh, I'm
really excited about this.
I can feel my heart rate goingup.
I can feel that I'm a littlebit uh bouncy.
This is great.
I'm ready to go for this talk.
And it has a real benefit forme.
Jordan (15:24):
Yeah.
Alban (15:24):
So I've I've shared this with a bunch of people.
I don't know if it's everlanded for anyone I've shared it
with, probably because I wasusing the run-on sentence uh
strategy.
Jordan (15:33):
You shared it with me and I tried this, but I don't
know what it my brain just goes,girl, don't lie to yourself.
Like, no, you can't pull oneover on me.
And so I've been in a couplesituations where I was like
feeling like a little bitanxious, or I started feeling
that like panic kind of comingup.
And I'm like, okay, wow, I'mI'm so excited.
(15:57):
I just have like all thesebutterflies because I'm I just
can't wait to do this thing.
And I I tell myself that.
And then like I just know deepin my heart, like, girl, no,
you're petrified right now.
It's not true.
And so that one doesn't workfor me.
I can't lie to myself.
Kevin (16:15):
Well, they might not work for everybody.
Jordan (16:17):
Yeah.
Kevin (16:18):
All right, I have one more.
Jordan (16:19):
Okay.
Kevin (16:20):
And this is this is under the behavior management
category.
And this is don't rush thestart.
The concept is to deliver yourfirst line slowly and set your
baseline pace.
We want to speak slowly,usually, especially if we're um
excited or anxious, depending onwhat you believe when you tell
yourself.
You have a tendency to come outpretty hot and then your energy
(16:42):
wanes throughout.
And this technique is aboutstarting off slow.
So you have like sustainingenergy.
So you would probably startslow, you'd build energy into
your you know, podcast episode,and then hopefully have enough
to sustain a more steady energythroughout instead of starting
super hot and then waningquickly.
Jordan (17:00):
I think that this is a technique that a lot of stand-up
comedians use.
Cause you see, um, if you'veever gone to a comedy show where
the comedian just bombs, whichI mean happens, you know,
they'll come out and they're soexcited, they're like, hey
everyone, uh, and then as thingsare just kind of like
digressing, they get a littlebit more quiet, and then it's
like, all right, oh, bye.
(17:20):
You know, it's you don't wantto bomb on stage.
And so it works out a lotbetter, I think, when the
comedians come out and then theywork up to the comedy and
you're just kind of like on thisjourney with them.
Um, I see that a lot withcomedians.
Kevin (17:35):
Yeah.
I always feel like when I geton a recording, I've got to come
in with a bunch of energy anddeliver it all up front because
I'm just thinking, like ifpeople are listening to the
beginning of an episode and I'mnot bringing it right from the
first 10, 15 seconds, thenthey're gonna skip the podcast
or something.
But I don't think that's true.
That might be true on YouTube,that might be true on Instagram
and TikTok and YouTube Shorts.
(17:56):
It might be true.
I mean, that's I mean, peopleare scrolling like crazy.
Yeah.
But when I tune into a podcast,I'm giving it a couple minutes
for sure.
And I'm mostly just listeningand figuring out am I tracking
with the topic?
Am I interested in the topic?
Where I do get lost, if I'mgonna get lost in a topic that
I'm interested in, it's becausehalfway through the host has
sort of, I don't know, gottentired and waned off, or they've
(18:20):
gone on rabbit trails andthey're not holding true to the
content they told me that theywere gonna talk about at the
beginning of the episode.
And so I don't know that wehave to always come in super hot
in the podcasting format.
You can start at a reasonable,controlled, slow pace, and I
think that could be totallyacceptable and probably welcome
by a lot of listeners.
And remember, they haveplayback controls in their
(18:40):
podcast apps.
So if you're talking too slowfor them, they can make you talk
a little faster.
Very rarely do I think peopleslow down podcasts.
And so if you're just talkingtoo fast, probably you're gonna
lose some people because they'renot gonna turn you down.
It's gonna sound weird.
They're just gonna feel likeI'm not tracking with this
episode.
I'm gonna move on to somethingelse.
Alban (19:00):
You can speed the podcast up.
You could use Apple's newchapter markers that they're
automatically adding intopodcasts to skip bat episode
segments.
People can move around, theydon't have to listen to the
whole thing.
So maybe you can speak with abit more confidence.
These are all people who haveopted in to listen to this story
as opposed to maybe familymembers who are just a captive
(19:23):
audience for a few minutes whileyou ramble.
Jordan (19:26):
Yeah.
I think that you shoulddefinitely, if you want to
improve as a speaker, as apodcaster, as an interviewer.
I think this is the first timeI'm going to recommend a
Huberman Lab episode.
And so I'll link to that in theshow notes.
And I think that you shouldlisten to it.
Thanks for listening and keeppodcasting.
I got back on social media, and one of the first
things I saw was actuallysomething that was good.
Jordan (00:05):
Nice.
Alban (00:06):
And so maybe I'm back.
I don't know.
Jordan (00:08):
I I don't think so.
I think you got lucky.
Alban (00:11):
I think I got lucky.
In between a bunch of likepolitical fighting, there was a
great tweet, at least I thoughta good tweet, from Andrew
Huberman, uh famous podcaster.
And it said the best protocolto eliminate filler words like
ums and ahs is in this video.
And he spoke with somebody whoI guess is a speech expert, Matt
(00:31):
Abrams.
And I watched this short clip,and it was about how to try to
land your sentences to removefiller words.
And it was convicting for mebecause what he's describing is
I have like the anti-pattern ofthis.
So maybe somebody else can jumpin and share.
Kevin (00:49):
What is the anti-pattern?
Alban (00:50):
But you never land the sentence, you just keep talking.
Okay, so I told this uh toKevin the other day because
Kevin now knows two of mysiblings.
And one of the patterns we haveis you're hearing a group of
five kids.
As soon as you get attentionfrom your parents as a child,
you have to kind of hold it andyou never ever let it go.
(01:11):
And the way you do it is bylots of filler words, and then
like you finish a sentence andimmediately start the second
one, and then you hold it, andthen you get a breath, and then
you go and you you always keepcontinuing.
Kevin (01:23):
Yeah.
Right.
Alban (01:23):
So you your stories just kind of stink and you ramble.
Yeah.
Kevin (01:26):
I have noticed this in the Brooke family.
They all one story just bleedsright into another story, bleeds
into another story.
And they're not all A plusstories, if we're being honest.
No, I think they tell four orfive stories and try to like get
one hit out of the four or fivethat they weep.
It's a numbers game for sure.
Jordan (01:45):
So I listened to the full clip of this.
Like the whole episode is overtwo hours long.
I I started it and then I wentto the place where he actually
went into the questions wheresomeone asked, like, what can I
do about filler words?
And it's interesting that youbring up growing up in a
household of five siblings aslike that's what formed your
(02:07):
speech patterns, because hetalks about how filler words
actually serve a purpose.
And he used to think they wereall bad, but they're not all bad
because some of them indicatethat, you know, you are about to
say something.
So you're holding your place sothat no one interrupts you.
And then he also talks abouthow there was research done
(02:28):
where kids have kind of gleanedfrom the way that adults speak
that when they say um or uh,it's almost like a flag that
what they're about to say isreally important.
And so that's ingrained in us.
And so what happens is when wehear a lot of people say, um,
(02:48):
and then they don't say anythingimportant or they say another
um or another uh, it irritatesus, it frustrates us in like
this really innate way.
So it makes sense to me thatyou would use a lot of filler
words to hold attention becauseyou're like holding your place,
like I'm about to say somethingreally important here.
So I need you to focus on me.
Alban (03:09):
You're letting people know I'm thinking through this.
So that makes sense.
There might be something with alittle bit more thought right
after the ums and ahs.
Jordan (03:18):
Yeah.
Alban (03:18):
It's one of the reasons I actually like so when we added
filler word removal, we didn'ttake them all out.
We only do ones with highconfidence, and that ends up
being ones with like spacearound them, ums and ahs that
are like back to back to back.
Jordan (03:33):
Yeah.
Alban (03:34):
It sounds a little bit better.
Like maybe we shouldn't betaking them all out.
I've shared this many times,but Barack Obama learned to add
them into his speech patternbecause he didn't have any, or
he'd somehow grown up withoutusing any.
And so it sounded unnatural topeople.
So when he ran for office, headded them in.
He did not have five siblings.
Kevin (03:52):
So he didn't.
Alban (03:55):
I don't maybe he got he got the healthier pattern.
So what do we do?
What are the protocols that wecan take to learn how to land a
sentence?
Jordan (04:04):
Okay, so what Matt Abrams said, one of the things
that he does to avoid fillerwords is you have to make sure
that you're breathing in becauseyou can't speak while you're
breathing in.
So that means you can't say afiller word while you're
breathing in.
And so the tip that he gave isto use up all your air as you
(04:26):
say your sentence and to landthe sentence, kind of like how a
gymnast would like jump andthen like, you know, stick the
landing.
You want to do the same thingwith your sentences.
And so you want to make surethat you land your phrases and
then at the end of the phrase,you take in air.
So instead of saying, um, whenyou're thinking, you're actually
just taking in air.
But I have to say, it wasfunny.
(04:47):
When I first heard this, I waslike, well, I don't know if this
is gonna work for a theaterperson like myself because I can
push out a lot of words beforeI run out of air.
Like it's all in there.
So I don't know.
Kevin (04:59):
Does the laugh, the laugh, does that count as a
filler word?
I feel like Jordan, you land alot of your sentences with a
laugh.
Jordan (05:05):
I do.
And actually, that's somethingI've been working on a lot
because it's sort of like anervous thing that I do
sometimes.
If I get like really nervous, Iget super giggly.
Kevin (05:13):
Oh, I have tips on this.
Oh, handling handling nerves.
Alban (05:16):
So we can, we can maybe if we have time, we can get into
some of that.
All right.
So the main protocol is you'retrying to end the amount of air
that you have in your lungs.
You're trying to get it all outat the period or the whatever
the terminal punctuation is.
It ends the sentence as you endyour breath so that you breathe
in between sentences.
And maybe there's a couplesentences in a row, but when it
(05:40):
ends is when your breath ends.
So you're not tempted to take abig um and then take a breath
after that.
Yeah.
Kevin (05:47):
I think it's a pretty good technique, especially for
public speaking.
And I think it could workpretty well in podcasting too,
depending on how good you got atlike honing this technique in.
But I do know also that one ofthe things that annoys
podcasters more than listeners,I think, but podcasters can be
self-conscious about whenthey're listening back to their
recording, they get consciousabout hearing themselves breathe
(06:09):
in the microphone.
And so I do think if you'redoing this, you don't want every
time you land a sentence, youdon't want to hear a big that
would that would probably driveme crazy too.
And so I think this could alsoplay into your microphone
technique.
Like land your sentence, pullyourself off the mic, and
breathe in.
That's the only thing I wouldadd specifically for podcasters,
because otherwise, you're justgonna end up in a spot where
(06:32):
instead of removing filler wordsfrom your recordings, you're
removing all these breathsounds.
Jordan (06:36):
Yes.
That's another thing I wasthinking about too, Kevin, as an
editor.
Alban (06:39):
Yeah, technique number two, it's gotta be breathe
through your nose.
You know, take a bigdiaphragmatic breath through the
nose.
In the pre-show, Kevin was uhlike, what is this word?
You can't use that word.
It just sounds so complicated.
Yeah, diaphragmatic breath.
Breathe with your belly, letyour belly come out a little
bit, take a big deep breaththrough your nose.
We're not gonna be a mouthbreather.
(07:00):
And if you do that, you're notgoing to have a big breath in
the mic.
Jordan (07:05):
I don't know.
To me, like those big breathscan also indicate excitement,
similar to how some filler wordsindicate to me, like, I don't
know.
Kevin (07:14):
I think I know what you're saying because I I did a
little bit of research.
Ha-da! Ooh, super exciting.
Jordan (07:19):
This is like the second episode where you've done some.
I'm all in.
Kevin (07:22):
I'm all in on the podcast now.
We're over 200 episodes.
Jordan (07:25):
I feel like it's you're finally buying in.
Kevin (07:27):
Yeah, we're gonna stick with this long term.
I'm gonna put some more effortin.
So I did some research, andwhat you're saying about it is
it shows excitement.
One of the tips that I have islike you can underline words in
your speech.
Jordan (07:40):
Like in the outline, right?
Kevin (07:42):
Like if you're reading a written page, you could have
underlined words, you could havebolded words or something.
How can you do that when you'respeaking?
And it's also easier toprobably do that in person.
Like you could use handgestures, you could show
excitement on your face.
If you're doing a video, youcould use some of those
techniques.
But if it's just audio, how doyou underline a word?
And the tip here was to markkeywords per sentence by slowing
(08:06):
down and emphasizing specificwords.
Jordan (08:09):
I see what you did there.
Kevin (08:10):
You see what I did?
Alban (08:10):
I feel like you're giving me some attitude.
That's what I hear.
By slowing down andemphasizing.
Right.
Those words were underlined.
Kevin (08:20):
Yeah.
Alban (08:21):
Audibly.
All right.
Well, I also did some research,Kevin, so I've got some other
tips.
Okay.
Let's hear them.
The belly breathing was themain one I got.
Kevin (08:29):
Yeah.
Alban (08:30):
But then I read this blog that said it helps you prevent
running out of air and vocalfry.
I didn't know that's what vocalfry was.
I know like kind of the nasallysound is vocal fry, but it's
running out of air.
Kevin (08:43):
Yeah, it makes sense.
It makes sense.
If you want to, if you want tomake your voice intentionally
sound a little fryy, you're notpushing out a lot of air to get
that sound.
Jordan (08:53):
Yeah.
Kevin (08:53):
And so it makes sense that it would happen
accidentally as you're runningout of air.
Jordan (08:57):
Yeah.
Kevin (08:57):
Uh, I have another one.
Okay.
A technique that I think thatI've gotten pretty good at,
which is to speak in shortclusters of two to three
sentences and then just pause.
I like doing this because Jordanand I were not going to talk
(09:20):
there.
So we were just seeing how longthis pause is going to be with
just the right amount of pause.
Jordan, please leave the wholepause.
Jordan (09:29):
I'm going to.
It's going to be in there.
I'm really sorry for ourlisteners that get confused and
trying to check their apps tosee if it's still playing.
Kevin (09:40):
I like doing it because I think it gives time for the
person that you're communicatingto to process what you just
said, and it gives you time tothink of like what's the next
point I want to make.
Jordan (09:49):
Yeah.
Kevin (09:50):
If you're constantly filling the space with a filler
word, with just random things.
All filler words are not alwaysums or ahs.
Sometimes they're just likehabitual things we say.
Like a lot of people will say,you know what I mean?
Or they'll say like, or they'llsay right.
They'll kind of ask questionsin the middle of talking.
And I think that takes awayfrom the effectiveness of what
(10:12):
you're trying to communicatebecause you just asked a
question after you said astatement.
So you're trying to get somefeedback, but that interrupts
the thought process.
Jordan (10:21):
So that kind of leads to on this episode, they were
talking about how reallyspeaking with confidence in
itself and not getting in yourhead and not thinking about like
constantly judging yourself ortrying to judge what other
people are thinking about whatyou're saying is probably the
best way to speak with moreconfidence.
(10:41):
And when you speak withconfidence, you don't use as
many filler words.
And so I think that trying toget comfortable with speaking
into a microphone or trying toget comfortable with asking
someone questions without fearof judgment might be one of the
best tips to remove filler wordsin your speech.
Alban (10:59):
I know that for sure for me.
Yeah.
If I'm judging what I'm sayingwhile I say it, I lose like 40
IQ points and I'm running out.
Kevin (11:09):
Me too.
Alban (11:10):
That's not good.
Kevin (11:11):
Yeah.
Alban (11:11):
But there's people, and I think my uncle is one of these
people who they make you feellike you're the smartest person
they've ever talked to.
Like they're such goodlisteners.
And when you're talking tosomeone who's just a really good
listener, you feel confident.
You feel like everything yousay makes sense.
And I think it makes you quitea bit smarter.
(11:32):
Or at least it makes whatyou're saying so much more
confident.
And I think actually what I'msaying is more likely to be
accurate.
Jordan (11:41):
I mean, it makes you a better communicator.
Alban (11:43):
Yeah, that's probably a better way of saying it.
I'm I'm a little bit nervousright now, so it's probably not
coming out right.
Jordan (11:50):
But it's true.
It when you're able to just saythings in a very like concise
way, it actually makes you soundmore intelligent.
Kevin (11:57):
You guys have mentioned nerves a few times.
Can we transition into nerves?
Sure.
And how to take control ofyour, I don't know, physical
reaction to whether you'republic speaking or recording a
podcast or anything like that.
Uh the first category here ispre-talk physical control and
it's basically stress reduction.
And so I have a coupletechniques that I'm gonna run by
(12:18):
you guys.
We could try them together ifyou want.
Let's do it.
Let's do it live.
Yeah, the first one is veryquick.
So we can try this one first,and then I'll just explain the
other two because they're alittle longer.
First one is calledphysiological psi.
And the way that you do this isyou do two short inhales and
then one long exhale.
And the promise here is that itwill reduce stress in under 10
seconds.
Alban (12:38):
This does work.
Should we practice this?
The way you do it is you take abig breath and then you take
another on top of it.
Yep.
You go and then a long exhale.
Do you feel less stressed?
Jordan (12:50):
Oh, that sounds good.
Alban (12:52):
Go like as much as you get on the first one.
You're trying to get as deep ofa breath, and then you pull
another one on top of it, andyou get so much more air, and
then you let the sigh go as longas you can.
The next one is called quadrantbreathing.
Kevin (13:09):
Maybe you've heard of this.
Oh, is this a square?
Box breathing.
Yeah, it's like box breathing,is another thing you pull, which
is a four-second inhale, afour-second hold, a four-second
exhale, and a four-second hold.
Jordan (13:20):
This works.
Kevin (13:21):
This takes a little bit longer, but what it does is it
calms your heart rate and itsteadies your voice.
So this is something you woulddo like five minutes before
you're gonna record or somethinglike that.
Just to reduce your stress,like right before you record,
you can do the quick inhales andlong exhale.
But if if you have a fewminutes before you start
recording, you can do some boxbreathing or quadrant breathing,
and that will calm your heartrate and steady your voice.
(13:42):
Yeah.
And there's also a warm-up hum,which is a low humming for 30 to
60 seconds, which vibrates thevagus nerve and soothes your
vocal tone.
Jordan (13:52):
Ariana Grande does this.
Kevin (13:54):
Oh, really?
Jordan (13:54):
Mm-hmm.
This is how she warms up.
Like she'll just hum for likean hour in the morning and she
just hums throughout the day andstuff.
And she said that that's whatshe does.
Kevin (14:02):
Well, there you go.
Jordan (14:03):
It works.
Kevin (14:04):
You could be the next Ariana Grande.
Jordan (14:06):
Yeah.
Kevin (14:08):
All right.
Next, next category.
I'll cover this quick.
Mental reframing.
Yes.
So instead of saying thingslike, I'm nervous, you change
that to I'm excited.
Alban (14:16):
All right.
So this, I remember the firsttime I heard it, this changed
how I saw a lot of things asbeing uh stressful into being
more excited.
Because I enjoy publicspeaking.
And there'd be times where I'mgoing on stage and I'd get
excited.
And there's times I was feelinglike anxious about it or
nervous about it.
And the insight that I thinkit's William James had is that
(14:40):
the physiological state, thefeelings in your body are the
same feelings.
They're just sometimes coded inour minds as I'm scared or I'm
anxious or I'm stressed.
And sometimes they're coded asI'm excited.
Like it's an arousal state forall of them.
It can either be a positivearousal state, like excitement,
(15:02):
and not or a negative arousalstate like stressed or anxious.
Jordan (15:07):
Yeah, or fearful.
Alban (15:08):
And now I just when I'm feeling that, I'm going, oh, I'm
really excited about this.
I can feel my heart rate goingup.
I can feel that I'm a littlebit uh bouncy.
This is great.
I'm ready to go for this talk.
And it has a real benefit forme.
Jordan (15:24):
Yeah.
Alban (15:24):
So I've I've shared this with a bunch of people.
I don't know if it's everlanded for anyone I've shared it
with, probably because I wasusing the run-on sentence uh
strategy.
Jordan (15:33):
You shared it with me and I tried this, but I don't
know what it my brain just goes,girl, don't lie to yourself.
Like, no, you can't pull oneover on me.
And so I've been in a couplesituations where I was like
feeling like a little bitanxious, or I started feeling
that like panic kind of comingup.
And I'm like, okay, wow, I'mI'm so excited.
(15:57):
I just have like all thesebutterflies because I'm I just
can't wait to do this thing.
And I I tell myself that.
And then like I just know deepin my heart, like, girl, no,
you're petrified right now.
It's not true.
And so that one doesn't workfor me.
I can't lie to myself.
Kevin (16:15):
Well, they might not work for everybody.
Jordan (16:17):
Yeah.
Kevin (16:18):
All right, I have one more.
Jordan (16:19):
Okay.
Kevin (16:20):
And this is this is under the behavior management
category.
And this is don't rush thestart.
The concept is to deliver yourfirst line slowly and set your
baseline pace.
We want to speak slowly,usually, especially if we're um
excited or anxious, depending onwhat you believe when you tell
yourself.
You have a tendency to come outpretty hot and then your energy
(16:42):
wanes throughout.
And this technique is aboutstarting off slow.
So you have like sustainingenergy.
So you would probably startslow, you'd build energy into
your you know, podcast episode,and then hopefully have enough
to sustain a more steady energythroughout instead of starting
super hot and then waningquickly.
Jordan (17:00):
I think that this is a technique that a lot of stand-up
comedians use.
Cause you see, um, if you'veever gone to a comedy show where
the comedian just bombs, whichI mean happens, you know,
they'll come out and they're soexcited, they're like, hey
everyone, uh, and then as thingsare just kind of like
digressing, they get a littlebit more quiet, and then it's
like, all right, oh, bye.
(17:20):
You know, it's you don't wantto bomb on stage.
And so it works out a lotbetter, I think, when the
comedians come out and then theywork up to the comedy and
you're just kind of like on thisjourney with them.
Um, I see that a lot withcomedians.
Kevin (17:35):
Yeah.
I always feel like when I geton a recording, I've got to come
in with a bunch of energy anddeliver it all up front because
I'm just thinking, like ifpeople are listening to the
beginning of an episode and I'mnot bringing it right from the
first 10, 15 seconds, thenthey're gonna skip the podcast
or something.
But I don't think that's true.
That might be true on YouTube,that might be true on Instagram
and TikTok and YouTube Shorts.
(17:56):
It might be true.
I mean, that's I mean, peopleare scrolling like crazy.
Yeah.
But when I tune into a podcast,I'm giving it a couple minutes
for sure.
And I'm mostly just listeningand figuring out am I tracking
with the topic?
Am I interested in the topic?
Where I do get lost, if I'mgonna get lost in a topic that
I'm interested in, it's becausehalfway through the host has
sort of, I don't know, gottentired and waned off, or they've
(18:20):
gone on rabbit trails andthey're not holding true to the
content they told me that theywere gonna talk about at the
beginning of the episode.
And so I don't know that wehave to always come in super hot
in the podcasting format.
You can start at a reasonable,controlled, slow pace, and I
think that could be totallyacceptable and probably welcome
by a lot of listeners.
And remember, they haveplayback controls in their
(18:40):
podcast apps.
So if you're talking too slowfor them, they can make you talk
a little faster.
Very rarely do I think peopleslow down podcasts.
And so if you're just talkingtoo fast, probably you're gonna
lose some people because they'renot gonna turn you down.
It's gonna sound weird.
They're just gonna feel likeI'm not tracking with this
episode.
I'm gonna move on to somethingelse.
Alban (19:00):
You can speed the podcast up.
You could use Apple's newchapter markers that they're
automatically adding intopodcasts to skip bat episode
segments.
People can move around, theydon't have to listen to the
whole thing.
So maybe you can speak with abit more confidence.
These are all people who haveopted in to listen to this story
as opposed to maybe familymembers who are just a captive
(19:23):
audience for a few minutes whileyou ramble.
Jordan (19:26):
Yeah.
I think that you shoulddefinitely, if you want to
improve as a speaker, as apodcaster, as an interviewer.
I think this is the first timeI'm going to recommend a
Huberman Lab episode.
And so I'll link to that in theshow notes.
And I think that you shouldlisten to it.
Thanks for listening and keeppodcasting.
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