Podcast Listening Has Crossed Into The Mainstream

Send us a text

Podcasting has officially gone mainstream according to Edison Research's Infinite Dial, with 55% of Americans now consuming podcasts monthly. Does this mean we never have to explain what a podcast is again? Let's hope!

Mentioned in this episode: 

• Rory McIlroy's club switch during tournament
• Buzzsprout Hang Out at Podcast Movement Evolutions
• Netflix exploring video podcasts as potential content on their platform 
• Bulksprout: New bulk upload tool released for Buzzsprout users
• Keith Morrison's storytelling techniques and how to apply them to podcasting
• 2025 Infinite Dial Report
• Buzzcast 121: Spotify's New Podcast Strategy 

Sound-Off: Have you ever had an embarrassing foot-in-mouth experience? 

Support the show

Contact Buzzcast

• Send us a text message
• Tweet us at @buzzcastpodcast, @albanbrooke, @kfinn, and @JordanPods

Thanks for listening and Keep Podcasting!

Episode Transcript

Kevin (00:00):
I haven't looked at the outline yet, so I'll do that in
a second.
Oh God but before we get intothe podcasting talk, let's do a
little marketing talk, okay, Isent Alban a news story and an
online ad, and so Alban knowsthis already.
But, Jordan, I want to hear howyou respond to this.

Jordan (00:14):
Okay.

Kevin (00:14):
As somebody on the Buzzsprout marketing team.
You're a professional.
How would you handle asituation like this?
There is a company right nowthat makes sporting equipment
and every year, the sportingequipment company all of them
they have to come out with thelatest version of something.
So this is golf equipment.
The company is Taylor Made.
They came out with their brandnew clubs for 2025.
They sponsor Rory McIlroy.

(00:36):
He's doing great, having aphenomenal year, but he's like
seven shots away from leadingthis tournament in Orlando and
he's not feeling confident withthe latest, greatest version of
clubs that this company ishaving him play with and they're
his main sponsor.

Jordan (00:51):
Okay.

Kevin (00:51):
So he pays an Uber driver $1,000 to drive down to his
house in Jupiter or his club,pick up his old clubs and bring
them to him so he can play thefinal round.
And the story goes viralbecause it's like you know, Rory
pays an Uber driver a thousanddollars to go pick up his old
clubs and then think about ifyou're the company that pays him
millions of dollars to rep yourgear and he doesn't even want
to play with your latest stufffor the final round because he

(01:13):
doesn't feel confident.
This is a marketing nightmare.

Alban (01:15):
It's totally understandable too from like a
golf perspective.
It's just, it's probably justin his head and it was just
enough of a difference.
He's like I'm just gonna getthe new one, and now Taylor Made
is like what the heck?

Kevin (01:28):
Would you not lose your mind?
Think about like we do stuff atsuch a small scale compared to
this, but like if we were, if werolled out a new feature or
something like that, and then wesponsor, you know, the pod news
weekly review, and then they'relike listen, we got to use the
old version of Buzzsproutbecause this new version we just
don't feel confident publishingour show with it.

Alban (01:44):
We paid an editor $1,000 to make the UI look the same as
it used to.

Jordan (01:51):
I mean, so did he drive back to get that brand of clubs?

Kevin (01:56):
It's the same brand of club.
It's just last year's model.
He wanted to use the oldversion, not the new version.

Jordan (02:01):
You know what, Maybe from a marketing standpoint,
it's like you know what.
Why mess with perfection?
You know what I mean.

Kevin (02:12):
They have to sell new versions of these clubs every
year.
They spent millions of dollarsdeveloping this new version of
this club.
They're not going to toss itjust because Roy didn't feel
confident going into his finalround.

Jordan (02:19):
Yeah, I don't know if there is a spin on this.

Alban (02:22):
I mean golf equipment is one of the few areas that the
equipment has gottensignificantly better over the
last 20 years.
But year on year it's barelychanging.
And for an old driver you canbuy them used for a couple
hundred bucks.
A new driver some of them arelike $800.
Yeah, and they come out with anew one every year, because

(02:43):
there's this whole group ofpeople who buy a new driver
every year, because they buy thenew one and they sell the old
one to the secondhand store andthen people like me buy one of
those and we have it for 10years.
They're propping up the wholeindustry, the people who buy the
new one every year, and thenthe person they're all aspiring

(03:03):
to be, rory, is like man.
I would actually maybe beleading this tournament if I had
the old clubs.
Why don't I pay someone a bunchof money to go get my old ones?
Taylormate's, like this wholehouse of cards, has fallen apart
because everyone's going to go.
Okay, problem solved.

Kevin (03:22):
Right, I get to save a bunch of money this year.
I don't have to buy new stuff.

Jordan (03:25):
Yeah, this is bad.
It is bad.
I don't know if there is a wayaround it other than to just
wait for the news cycle.
Like everyone's, memories areso short nowadays.
You know what I mean.

Kevin (03:35):
Yeah, that's true.
Story broke like two days ago.

Jordan (03:41):
So it's pretty much already on, and then, like five
months ago, you're like hey, youremember that.
It's like oh yeah, I forgotabout that.

Alban (03:47):
I thought about creating a Twitter profile that all I did
was every day I would go ononce a day and see, like what's
the biggest story today?

Jordan (03:56):
Like in history or Like just what's the biggest story
right now.

Alban (03:58):
No like the scandal of the day.
What's the scandal of the day?
And I tweet the scandal of theday is X, the story of the day
is X, right, and I have itpublished one year later and it
just says one year ago we wereall worked up about this.

Kevin (04:14):
Oh yeah, what's today's we're recording on Tuesday,
March 25th.
Today's story of the day isthat a bunch of people from the
Trump administration had asignal chat going and they
accidentally invited a reporterinto their private chat.

Alban (04:28):
I saw that.
Well, they're planning a war.
They're planning a war.

Kevin (04:34):
That's crazy, yeah, and you're right.
Like three days from now, noone will be talking about this.

Jordan (04:38):
Nope, there's going to be something else.
It's crazy.

Alban (04:40):
This is one of the few political stories that broke
through for me.
I was like I can't go anywherewithout all these jokes and I'm
like what's happening?
And then I go read the storyand I'm like how is this true?

Jordan (04:52):
I immediately thought back to.
I know everyone has been inthis situation where you do
something, you mess up publiclyat your job or you publish
something you shouldn't have,and then you get that like flood
of heat up into your face and Iwas thinking the guy who added
that reporter to the group chat.
I can't even imagine like thepit in your stomach you would

(05:13):
feel, it's so cringy though.

Alban (05:16):
Kevin and I have a friend who was at a company where I
guess some people were gettinglaid off and he was like hey, if
everyone is here, the nextperson to get laid off is
probably Jim or something.
I don't remember the name he'slike, but it's going to be Jim.
And so he messages like yeah,jim's probably going to be the
next one to be laid off.
And he means to message likeone person and he messaged Jim.

Kevin (05:41):
I think, if it's the story I'm thinking about, yeah,
he actually said this person didsomething and then he said
that's why I think this shouldbe the next person who gets laid
off.

Alban (05:50):
Oh my gosh but he sent it to that person and they sit
face to face on desks.
So Jim goes.
What the hell?
He gets the text.
He's like yeah.
So I immediately just had toown it and go hey, jamie, you
want to go have a conversation?

Jordan (06:07):
He's like sorry, I thought it was really rude of me
.

Alban (06:09):
I didn't mean to send it to you.

Jordan (06:11):
That's just one of those times you wish like the earth
would just open up and swallowyou down.

Alban (06:15):
It would be a little worse, though, if you're like.
This is why we should bombJim's house.

Jordan (06:19):
That's true.

Kevin (06:20):
Oh my gosh, it should be a sound off question.
We should hear Everyone's gotthese stories.

Jordan (06:24):
Oh yeah.

Alban (06:25):
It hurts when you do it.
I feel like I've avoided thesefor a long time.
I feel like I have a little bitcompulsive about it and I want
to check, but when you get themyou feel so dumb.

Kevin (06:34):
Yeah.

Alban (06:34):
Here we go.

Jordan (06:41):
Welcome back to Buzzcast , a podcast about all things.
Podcasting from the people atBuzzsprout.
Next week is Podcast MovementEvolutions.
This year it's in Chicago andif any of our listeners are
attending, can they expect tosee anyone from Buzzsprout there
?

Alban (06:54):
They can see me, and that's it.

Jordan (06:57):
That's it.

Alban (06:57):
That's enough.
That's enough.
I'm sure there'll be a bunch ofBuzzsprout customers and lots
of friends, but yeah, I'll bethe only one who flies up from
the Buzzsprout team.

Jordan (07:05):
Yeah, what is your experience been with evolutions
versus the regular, like podcastmovement?

Alban (07:11):
So they launched evolutions.
I want to say 2020 was thefirst one and the idea was this
was going to always be in LA andI think it was their chance to
like be more connected withHollywood and like kind of the
big media scene and they weregoing to always have podcast,
movement, move around andevolutions would be in LA.

(07:32):
And the first year I went wasalmost the last year I would go,
because we went and we werelike, yeah, it's very media
heavy.

Jordan (07:40):
Yeah.

Alban (07:41):
It's a lot of industry and it's the Hollywood industry,
it's not the indie podcasterscene.
So I had a lot of industry andit's the Hollywood industry,
it's not the indie podcasterscene.
So I had a lot of fun, Ienjoyed LA, I liked everyone
there, but it didn't seem likesomething worth going back to.
And then I went again, maybelast year, and I was like you
know, this feels way differentnow as the big media money has

(08:01):
kind of left evolutions.
It seems like they've kind ofmoved it a bit more towards.
It's just a second event we do.
It's a little bit smaller, it'sat a different time of the year
and it's going to be in adifferent city.
So they both are moving around.
So this year it's in Chicagoand you can go up there and
learn about podcasting and it'smuch more similar to podcast

(08:21):
movement as a whole.

Jordan (08:22):
Yeah, I think the only evolutions I have been to was
when they had it in Las Vegas,because it's very close to where
I live, and I think I went to abad one because everyone was
very polarized by Las Vegas.
Some people were like, yes, I'mso glad it's there, and then
there was another half of thepodcasting population that was
like I hate Vegas, I'm not goingto this one, and so it really

(08:45):
wound up being like a lotsmaller than I was expecting and
it was pretty much just theindustry leaders, which was
actually kind of nice because Igot to know them, but there
wasn't as many people as I washoping.
So hopefully Chicago will be alittle bit better, though I do
think it's going to be windy andcold when you're there.
I don't know.

Alban (08:58):
I mean I'll be inside most of it and I'll be talking
to people about their podcastsand telling them about
Buzzsprout.
But if you come or if you're aBuzzcast listener and you're
planning to go write in to ormaybe let's, I'll put something
in the show notes.
Maybe we can collect emailaddresses and try to do a bit of
a meetup.
Maybe we all meet up at a barfor a drink and Buzzsprout can

(09:19):
sponsor.
This is on the fly marketingright now, not some huge event,
but maybe for the Buzzcastlisteners who happen to be in
Chicago, maybe we could all meetup and have a drink and take a
photo and we'll talk about it ona future episode.

Jordan (09:33):
Awesome.
I think it's starting to becomethe tradition that James
Cridland has his pod news reportcard.
He gets up on stage and he goesthrough it and, if you don't
know, the pod News report cardis something that he runs every
single year and people basicallygrade podcast listening apps
and the podcasting industry andstuff like that from a

(09:53):
podcaster's perspective.

Alban (09:55):
The report card is nice because it collects all of this
feedback.
Some of the feedback is aboutlisteners, some of it's from
industry insiders.
You get podcast creators, youget a lot of people and it's
from industry insiders.
You get podcast creators, youget a lot of people, and it's
all at least presented to theteams.
So I remember the first yearApple Podcasts might have been
the only major app to want allthe feedback and then, once

(10:17):
James started getting on stageand saying Apple Podcasts and I
met, then Spotify startedmeeting with him and then I
think the YouTube team met withhim.
It's just becoming a Not thatthey're going to implement all
the feedback, or we don't knowexactly how seriously they take
it, but it's really good to hearthat there's at least an avenue
where the creators of thelargest podcasting apps are

(10:37):
hearing hey, here's what peopleseem to like, here's what people
don't like about your app, andthey get a grade and they're
incentivized to improve the appsand be responsive.
So it's a good thing.
I think I wouldn't have put somuch time into it as James did,
but it does seem to be payingoff.

Jordan (10:54):
Yeah.
And then another thing that Inoticed when I was looking at
the schedule was that Netflix issponsoring like a coffee hour
every morning at the event.
Ooh yeah, and I was like why isNetflix doing that?
It's kind of weird.
And then I remembered like, oh,they do have a handful of
podcasts.
But I also noticed in the newsthat they're thinking about
bringing creator content to theNetflix platform.

Alban (11:17):
Yeah, I saw this article that you shared.
So Netflix is looking at videopodcasts and they're seeing
there's a lot of very popularkind of video interview shows
where they show the mic.
So they call it a podcast andthey're on YouTube and they're
thinking, hey, you know how easyit is to create that content,
extremely cheap, and if peoplereally like it, maybe Netflix

(11:39):
should buy it and we could throwit onto the platform.

Kevin (11:42):
Does Netflix do that?
Currently I don't watch a lotof Netflix, so, but you guys
have a couple of shows that youwatch on Netflix, right, and
Jordan, I know you used to likereality TV, still do.

Jordan (11:52):
I still do, yeah, I still do.

Kevin (11:59):
So I do remember from years ago they started doing
after Survivor.
They would do like a post showafter the Survivor episode airs
and they'd have the people whowere on that episode and like
the person who got kicked outand they would kind of like
debrief the show.
Does Netflix do any of that fortheir shows.

Jordan (12:11):
I noticed that the companion podcasts are more from
CBS or Apple TV has been comingout with a few like Severance
companion podcasts.
I know HBO has a bunch of those, but are those video shows or
audio?
They're audio actually which isinteresting.

Kevin (12:26):
And I would think Netflix would do some video ones.

Alban (12:28):
Well, so there have been a few Netflix shows where they
went and poached a creator fromYouTube.
Somebody was independent.
There was the comedian ColleenBallinger or something and she
had like comedy on YouTube andthen she went and created a
Netflix show.
Cocoa Melon was really reallybig on YouTube and then she went
and created a Netflix show.
Cocoa Melon was really reallybig on YouTube and then it was

(12:48):
bought and so they moved it toNetflix, or at least Netflix
licensed the content and there'sjust a bunch.
I think they do it a lot morearound areas like kids videos,
where they know it's going to belots of watch time.
You get kids hooked on CocoaMelon on Netflix and it sits
there.
Your kids are locked in on itforever.
You're never letting thatsubscription lapse.

(13:08):
So I know they've done this inthe past and now they're like
probably looking and going shootfor how much money it costs to
create a really great movie.
We could have just licensedlike five of the biggest
podcasts and made them exclusiveto Netflix to make a video
podcast.
I would not be happy about that, for it to all be locked up

(13:32):
behind Netflix's paywall.
But I kind of see the argument.
It's relatively easy to createthem.
They could probably get therights for what's cheap compared
to video, and there's a segmentof the population that's going
to go.
Man, if I really want to watchDiary of a CEO podcast
interviews, then I got to go toNetflix.
I'll go to Netflix.

Jordan (13:50):
Yeah, I'm not sure if they're making it like platform
specific.

Alban (13:53):
Well, I'll have to swing by and ask them about it at the
coffee happy hour.

Jordan (13:58):
Yeah, there you go.

Alban (14:04):
I saw this over on X a couple of days ago.
Jay Owen, who actually is afriend of Tom, who was on the
podcast last time with Jordanand I.
Jay uses Buzzsprout and hecreated an app where you can
bulk upload episodes toBuzzsprout.
So he often gets 14 episodesfrom one of his clients.
He uploads them one at a timeto Buzzsprout.

(14:26):
You know it's a little bit of aslow process when you're doing
14 at a time.
So he hooks up to his GoogleDrive and clicks all 14 and they
upload them all and it namesthem all and it does all the
work for him and it's processed.
Oh, that's cool so if thissounds like something that would
be helpful for you.
If you're often uploadingmultiple files at once, you can
go to bulk sproutcom, bulk B?

(14:47):
U L K sproutcom, and if you'reusing the Buzzsprout API to
create something cool, let usknow.
I'd love to hear about it sothat we can help spread the word
for it.

Kevin (14:56):
You know, I feel like this is a better name for when
Alban and I go to conferences.
We usually put our workoutroutines like when we're going
to work out, on the schedule,and I feel like bulk sprout is a
better name for our workouttimes.
Oh, that's so good.

Jordan (15:11):
What's the one that you go with?
Is it whoop fit?

Kevin (15:14):
We called it buzz fit last time.

Jordan (15:16):
Oh, but bulk sprout is better.

Kevin (15:19):
I love that's great, kevin.
I hope Jay doesn't mind.
I'm sure I don't know if you'velike trademarked the name yet
or not, but maybe we could getsome bulk sprout t-shirts like
whatever, I love this idea likea single I early muscle shirts.
You know, cut the sleeves off.
Bulk sprout in the conferencegym every morning, just going
for it getting swole it's sogood.

Jordan (15:39):
I have a technical question about this.
I love the website looks clean,yeah, but I noticed that
they're asking for an API key.
Where does someone find that?

Alban (15:48):
So in Buzzsprout you would just log into your account
, make sure you're on thepodcast that you want to be able
to bulk upload to.

Jordan (15:57):
Okay.

Alban (15:57):
And you just click settings and then click API key
and it will give you your title,your API token token and the ID
.
And this is all just so thatwhen you try to upload something
to Buzzsprout, we're puttingthat episode on the right
podcast and we're not allowingjust some random person.
So it's a really long string.
You copy paste it and you'reset to go.

Jordan (16:17):
Oh, very cool.
Okay, so that's honestly themost complicated thing about
this bulk uploader.
So if you want to use it andyou're not technically inclined,
I think it's actually very easy.

Kevin (16:29):
Yeah, it's great for anybody who does batching, like
most podcasters probably aren'tuploading 14 episodes at a time,
but oftentimes we hear aboutcustomers who record two or
three or four episodes for themonth, for example, and then
want to upload all four at onceand then their podcast is set
all month and so instead ofdoing one at a time, this would
help you just drag and drop allfour and I think, like the

(16:54):
titles and show notes and stuffare sort of templatized, like
you can kind of use littletokens to say like insert show
title here and then do this andincrement the show number by
this many.
It's a pretty nice little tool.

Jordan (17:05):
Okay, so here's something kind of fun that I
wanted to talk about.
One of the members of ourpodcaster community group shared
a YouTube video from NBCUAcademy, which I didn't know is
a thing, and I really love thatthese journalism and audio
companies create resources forcreators to like learn
journalism and audiostorytelling techniques and
stuff like that, and so I'vealready known about Gimlet

(17:28):
Academy and there's the NPRtraining resources page, and so,
yeah, I was surprised that NBCalso has a whole learning
resource too.
Anyway, this video is aboutKeith Morrison, who you might
know from Dateline.
I think everyone knows thisvelvety rich voice of Keith
Morrison.
Yeah, it's Keith Morrison, whoyou might know from Dateline.
I think everyone knows thisvelvety rich voice of Keith
Morrison.

Alban (17:47):
Is Keith Morrison the like.
Cynthia didn't know what waswaiting for her at home.
It was tragedy, that guy.

Jordan (17:55):
Yes.

Alban (17:56):
Okay, I know who this guy is.

Jordan (17:58):
Yes, On the NBCU Academy website.
They say sometimes consider thegranddaddy of true crime.
Keith Morrison has one of themost famous voices on television
and, yeah, so he's famous forhis voice.
He's famous for how he readsscripts and, you know, uses his
instrument for storytelling.
So they have a whole blog post.

Kevin (18:19):
Are we just going to let it slide that you called his
voice, his instrument, jordan?

Jordan (18:23):
It is an instrument.

Kevin (18:25):
Leave it in.
I love it when the theater kidin Jordan comes out.
This is so great, okay.

Jordan (18:36):
It is an instrument.
It's a finely tuned instrumentand he's been perfecting it for
30 years.

Kevin (18:42):
I love it.
Okay, so if you want to tuneyour instrument, what's?

Alban (18:45):
different.
I mean, he got kind of like afunny intonation and he kind of
I don't know why the way hetalks somehow like undermines
the horror of the show.
It's always so strange to me.
It's like people are murderedand he somehow is.
The way he talks about it makesit feel like it was
entertaining.

Kevin (19:03):
Well, yeah, they created a Saturday Night Live skit about
this.

Jordan (19:07):
Yes, yeah, bill Hader.

Kevin (19:08):
Bill Hader does an impression where there's
someone's describing a terriblecrime that happened and he's
like and then what happened?
Like he's like way too happyabout it.
Yeah, that's how.

Alban (19:21):
I feel so.
I like that there's educationalmaterials, but I don't want to
emulate this.
I feel like there's he kind offake empathizes, but I'm like
this is a real victim, Like thisis the family is when he was
killed.

Jordan (19:34):
Oh yeah, there are times where he gets a a real victim
Like this is the family is whenhe was killed.
Oh yeah, there are times wherehe gets a little sassy.
It's like sassy Keith, and Imean he'll be talking about like
if the police find out thatsomeone was lying about
something, and he'll be like, ohdear, I love it, it's so good,

(19:57):
but I mean, that's the thingthat he's famous for is he's
reading from a script but itdoesn't sound like it, and he's
been doing this for like so long.
He has to fill out two hours ofa Dateline show with his
narrative and he has to make itinteresting and new and fresh
every single time.
And I think that that'ssomething that a lot of
podcasters really struggle withis making sure that they are

(20:19):
telling their point of view inan engaging way, especially if
you're not someone who doespublic speaking, who you know
has a theater background oranything like that.
So if you don't have that, Ithink that you know something
like this is actually veryhelpful, especially from someone
who's as animated as KeithMorrison.
If you could just take like asmidge of that and just apply it

(20:40):
to how you read your script or,you know, talk in your podcast.
I think it makes a bigdifference.

Alban (20:46):
Can I propose an alternative?
Don't do a podcast likeDateline.
Like the way Dateline doesstuff is they're telling this
terrible story and somehow theymake it a little bit
entertaining, which makes mealways feel kind of gross.
And then they're like coming upnext and then they tell you
what's about to happen.
And then you go into longcommercials and then they're
like what just happened?

(21:06):
And then they recap what justhappened and so it's like if
it's two hours, maybe there'slike 35 minutes of real content,
but they're mostly rehashingthe same two facts over and over
.

Jordan (21:18):
That's true.

Alban (21:18):
So I feel like this is the problem podcasters do fall
into is we're like I got tostretch this out and make sure
I've got a big long podcastepisode, but really what we
should be doing is trying tolike tighten it up and maybe be
a little bit more empathetic.
I think the true crime genrecould do with a bit more empathy
and like really consideringit's not just like a fictional

(21:40):
story.
These are real people who losta loved one and there's
something always feels gross tome about it.

Kevin (21:46):
It does feel like at least a couple of the true crime
podcasts that I've listened to.
They do a good job of likeinterjecting humor and
lightening it up, you know, justto play a little bit of devil's
advocate against what Alban issaying.
The stories are deep andthey're heavy and they're dark,
and if you covered it from thatside and you just tried to
empathize to an appropriateamount without adding some

(22:08):
levity to it, I do think itwouldn't be a very popular genre
.
Because, like how much can thehuman mind bear that?
You know I couldn't listen toanother horrible story every
single week.
There has to be some levity inthere.
There has to be some, you know,goofy detective who did
something wrong, and that's alight part to bring us up a
little bit.
And then we go back into theheavy.

Jordan (22:28):
Yeah.

Kevin (22:28):
Now, of course there's there's lines and all this stuff
, and some of the best truecrime podcasters have figured
out how to toe the line.
But just to give the other sideof the formula a little bit,
yeah, and I mean you're notwrong, Alban.

Jordan (22:40):
There's a little bit of like an ethical dilemma with
true crime.
Especially if someone's like atrue crime fan, it feels a
little weird because you're nota fan of, like you know, people
getting hurt or stolen from oranything like that.
You're just a fan of learningabout the stories, and so it
does kind of align betweenentertainment and education, and
when it gets more into theentertainment side it's a little

(23:00):
yucky.
But the points you brought upweren't necessarily what you can
learn from this article.
It's more of a resource abouthow to effectively tell a story,
not so much the actual likeproduction of it.
So he goes into like what hedoes when he gets a script from
Dateline, because obviously he'snot the one writing the script,

(23:21):
so he has to like read throughit and reword it the way that he
would say things, becausesometimes I think a lot of
people will write scripts in theway that makes them sound the
most intellectual.
It's not the way you speak, andso they'll struggle with
reading it and it'll soundrobotic because it literally is
like a robot wrote this script.
And then he also gives tips onrecording your voice and tips on

(23:42):
how to prepare your voice for arecording session, so it's like
a five minute YouTube video.
I think it's really interesting.
I think it's very fun.

Kevin (23:49):
Prepare your voice for a recording session.
Yeah, I should probably listento that.
Never done it, always doeverything wrong.
I'm sure Probably doesn'tmention Jocko Go.

Jordan (24:02):
Let's talk about the Infinite Dial Report from Edison
Research.
This is an annual report thatthey've been doing since, I
think, 2008 about audio trendsin the United States.
It's always really interestingwith things that they find, and
this year was actuallyexceptional because, according
to James Curland, podcasting isnow officially mainstream, and

(24:24):
his reasoning for this is thatthere's more podcast listeners
than there are not podcastlisteners in the US.
So that's pretty cool.
I think that's my biggesttakeaway from this one.

Alban (24:33):
So 55% of Americans over the age of 12 are now a monthly
podcast consumer.

Kevin (24:39):
Yeah.

Alban (24:39):
That includes all of my family, who are non-consenting
podcast listeners.
We're driving the car and I putone on and they're like you
know what this is better thanyour music, so we're fine.

Jordan (24:52):
I've actually like felt this shift in real life because
I remember back when I startedmy podcast, I would tell like
family or friends about it andthey more often than not had no
idea what I was talking about.
And then I went out to dinnerwith some like old family
friends and they were talkingabout how much they love
podcasts and they're like superinto all these different ones
and oh, what ones do you have?

(25:12):
And I thought that was reallycool, because these are all
people that are in like their60s and 70s and so I feel like I
can actually feel this shiftinto podcasting being more
mainstream, more widely accepted.

Alban (25:25):
Yeah, I'm starting to get way more people that recommend
podcasts.
To me One of the tough thingsthat's hard is people will
recommend like a two and a halfhour show and they're like, wow,
this is really good and I'mlike that's a big commitment off
of that was really good.
So we need a little more info,but you do get more
recommendations.
73% of people or of Americanshave consumed a podcast, and

(25:48):
when they say consumed, it'sbecause they're including video
and audio.
I did notice James made thispoint in the video.
I think he's made this pointactually in pod news as well
that YouTube's marking a lot ofthings as podcasts right now and
the definition of what countsas a podcast is I think it's

(26:08):
just when somebody creates aplaylist in YouTube and they say
this playlist is a podcast,that all counts as quote unquote
podcast material, and somebodyremarked on it.
It's really just an interviewwhere the mics are showing, and
that's what people seem to sayas a podcast.
If two people are talking ormore and they have mics, that's

(26:29):
on camera.
They kind of just call that apodcast.
Now, we would not consider thata podcast, but at least when
Edison's talking about itthey're including anytime
someone says yeah, it was apodcast because I saw an
interview.

Jordan (26:41):
Yeah, yeah, and I heard that YouTube is like marking
stuff that's not a podcast as apodcast.
So if you go to the podcastpage, there's a lot of stuff on
there that's clearly not apodcast, like it doesn't have
the microphones and that kind ofstuff on there.

Alban (26:54):
that's clearly not a podcast, like it doesn't have
the microphones and that kind ofstuff.
Well, I think that's peopledesignating this is a podcast
themselves and they pick that by.
They throw a bunch of stuff ina playlist and they say this is
a podcast and then it shows upon that page.
Kevin is intensely shaking hishead.
No, what did I get wrong there?

Kevin (27:10):
No, just I'm agreeing with Jordan's point is that the
more James looks into this he'stalking to people or he has some
insight into this is not markedas a podcast like in YouTube as
far as he can tell, and it'sstill showing up on those
podcast labeled pages and sohe's saying it's not what
YouTube is saying.
Like, how they figure out whatis a podcast and what is not a
podcast is not necessarilyaligning 100% with what he's

(27:32):
seeing.
Interesting is not necessarilyaligning 100% with what he's
seeing.
But, like I think this is worthtalking about as somebody who
works in podcasting, two otherpeople who work in podcasting,
do you know who never asks whatis a podcast?
Now you say who, who, who.

Jordan (27:47):
Kevin.

Kevin (27:47):
People who don't work in podcasting.
I never hear people who don'twork in podcasting say what is a
podcast.
I think everybody kind of knowsgenerally what a podcast is.
I do think that a lot of peoplethink, oh, it's there, you can
just listen to a podcast, orsome podcasts have video or
whatever.
But I generally know what apodcast is.
It's something that I probablylike.

(28:08):
I get it on the internet, I canget it on my phone.
It's one or more people talkingand having a conversation and
sometimes they have a videocomponent to it and sometimes
they don't.
I don't think anybody thinksabout it except for people who
are in the industry People whoare in the industry for some
reason.
It's very important for us tohave a strict, firm definition
of what a podcast is and isn't.
But I don't think the rest ofthe world, which is pretty much

(28:31):
the whole world, cares at alland I don't think there's a big
question around it either.

Alban (28:36):
I'm with you.
But when we're looking at thisinfinite dial we're like, oh
cool.
The number of people who saythey've consumed a podcast is at
an all-time high.
It's mainstream now.
It's important to note eightyears ago nobody would have said
they were consuming podcasts onYouTube, but now they're all
saying 51% are saying I'mwatching podcasts on YouTube.

(28:57):
Well, that is important becausethat's probably a big reason
why this number is inflating.
I don't know if the number isinflating because people are
starting to listen in athird-party podcasting app in
their car.
They might be but the numberthat is going up is the overall
I consume podcast number.

Kevin (29:18):
Yeah, but I just think it's.
I think it's a good thing.
Like I don't think it mattersif video podcasts are getting
like the listenership on the onthe video side is growing faster
than the audio side, or theaudio side is growing faster
than the video, so I don't thinkit really matters.
What I think matters is thatpodcasting is becoming
mainstream.
More people are gettingfamiliar with that term and

(29:39):
making it a part of their life.
And so when somebody says, oh,have you listened to any good
podcasts lately?
And then I say, yeah, here's ashow that you might like, and
they say, tell me about it, Itell them they say, oh, cool,
where do I find that?
Is that on YouTube?
And I might say, no, I don'tfind on YouTube, I got it on
Apple podcast or I got it onSpotify or whatever.
I think most people are kind oflike that's fine.
The people who I encounteranyway, they're like I have some

(30:02):
sort of podcast player, like ifI have an iPhone, I have Apple
podcast or Spotify, and thenmost people have YouTube and so
it's something you watched onyoutube.
Then you might say it's apodcast, but then you were just
going to tell the person oh, goget it, you can find on youtube
they do split up the listen toand watched a podcast in this

(30:24):
one.

Jordan (30:24):
I think this is the first year that they've done it,
where they made a definitivesplit, just because of how much,
you know, platforms likespotify and YouTube are pushing
video podcasting.
They're saying that 70% of theUS population has ever listened
to a podcast, and then theconsumed a podcast is like 73.

(30:46):
So it's only three points morewhere the only thing that
they've ever done is watched apodcast, right, and so I think
that there's still just a vastmajority that are sitting in the
audio consumption.
I don't really see the watchingversion of it taking over the
listening.

Alban (31:04):
Yeah, I'm with you.
There's a few other things Ikind of found out here that were
interesting.
Older listeners, 55 plus, arethe fastest growing group.
We've got lots of peoplelistening to all sorts of online
audio.
More people are using thesekind of like Android, auto or
car play systems in their car sothey can listen to podcasts on

(31:26):
the go.
And then Infinite Dial has allthis other stuff about like
social media usage, which isinteresting for people who work
in marketing, though probablynot super interesting to people
who listen to this podcast.

Jordan (31:37):
Maybe that was one of the things that really stood out
to me is that the car audiolistening podcasts come in third
after online radio and the AMFM.

Kevin (31:48):
Yeah, I think that's super encouraging because that's
only going to like shift moretowards podcasting, right?

Jordan (31:54):
Exactly, especially with all of these digital audio
interfaces in the cars.
None of my vehicles have these.
My cars are way too old to haveanything like this.
You know, I'm like super closeto still rocking the cassette
tape that has like the wirecoming out of it.
But one of the things that wasalso a little bit different this
year in the infinite dial isbecause of the potential TikTok

(32:18):
ban in America.
They did have a portion of thereport dedicated to like what
platform you will go to if theydo ban TikTok, if it goes away.
So everyone was saying, like ifTikTok goes away, we're
overwhelmingly going to go toYouTube and Instagram.

Alban (32:37):
I just feel like I mean good data point for the people
who really need that data pointbut, like the most obvious
result ever, If the app I use isbanned, I'm going to go to its
immediate competitor.
That makes sense.
If they ban Gate gas station,I'm probably going to go to a
different gas station.
You got me 80% of people planto continue using social media

(33:02):
at an unhealthy level.
Yeah, I believe it.

Jordan (33:04):
I think the thing that was like more surprising to me
was how many more people aregoing to go to like meta based
social media instead of YouTube,because YouTube just seems huge
.
They're talking about how it'slike number one for podcast
discovery or whatever, and it'sactually still pretty low, even
if you take TikTok out of theequation, compared to like
Instagram.
So I think looking at that, youcan say you know what?

(33:25):
Maybe I'll focus a little bitmore on Instagram and YouTube or
just this, instead of LinkedInand Pinterest and all these
other things.
So if you want to look at theInfinite Dial, they have the
replay available on YouTube.
I'll link to that in the shownotes along with the slides so
you can see the rest of it.
All right, let's get intoSoundOff.

(33:49):
First up we have a message fromDee Sparkling.
Life Coach D says Miss Kevin,but it was great listening to
Tom.
Such an informative episode.
Kudos to Tom for accomplishing20 days sugar-free.
That's quite an accomplishment.
Loved all the challengesuggestions.
Thanks, d.

Kevin (34:03):
Yeah, we need to circle back to that, because I listened
to the episode.
Tom did do a great job I agreewith D there and she challenged
us to do what Seven days.

Jordan (34:13):
Yes, sugar-free yes.

Kevin (34:15):
I think that's worth taking on.

Jordan (34:16):
Are you going to do that one?

Kevin (34:17):
I heard a couple of them and I was like, no, that's not
happening.
But the seven-day sugar-free itsounds just like there's only
upside.
It's going to be hard, butthere's only upside.
I think we should try it.
Okay, From right now.

Alban (34:29):
From right now.

Kevin (34:30):
Yeah, oh, I wasn't ready for that.

Alban (34:31):
Why do you need a plan not eating sugar?
Do you have like a chocolatebar sitting in?

Kevin (34:35):
your desk.
I got to do like a binge.
I got to go get like a cake andjust go at it until I feel sick
.
So then I can make it for awhole week.

Alban (34:43):
Everybody can't see this, but Kevin's got a Snickers like
right about in his mouth.

Jordan (34:52):
He's like, let me finish first.

Alban (34:53):
He's been hiding it in his shirt sleeve, thinking we
can't see it when he takes abite.

Kevin (34:58):
All right, this is happening seven days from right
now, so the next a week from now, at 4 30, I will uh fine, no
sugar, you got it all right.
Parameters real quick naturalsugars.
Can I have an apple?

Alban (35:11):
yeah, no added sugar.
That's the problem.
Oh, like refined sugar, yeah,you can't.
You can't eat candy, you can'thave a cake, you can't drink a
Coke, but you can have.
You could have a apple, you canhave berries.
I think you should also avoidthe artificial sugars too.

Kevin (35:26):
Oh, artificial sweeteners , you mean, yeah, no.

Alban (35:31):
Coke zeros or any of that stuff.
Yeah, and that stuff I don'tthink is good for your like
stomach anyway.
So your microbiome Got it.

Jordan (35:38):
Do you like a monk fruit or like a stevia leaf thing?

Kevin (35:42):
Sound like it.
Honey, can you do honey?

Alban (35:44):
I think you can't Honey, I think is okay.

Kevin (35:46):
Natural local honey also helps with allergies.

Alban (35:48):
According to the lady who sells the natural local honey
to us.
She just buys the tubes andputs them in her own containers.

Kevin (35:57):
Jordan are you in?
Are you in with us?
You know, I heard you say lastweek that you've already got
some other life challenges goingon, and you didn't.

Jordan (36:03):
I was going to say.
I'm almost a month into my dryMarch and it's actually been
very easy, so maybe I'll try nosugar with you guys, yep.
Let's go.

Alban (36:14):
You're going to have to give us a report at the end of
dry March.

Kevin (36:17):
Okay, One more clarifying question Can you have like
carbohydrates that turn intosugar immediately after
consumption?
So alcohol.
I wasn't actually asking aboutalcohol.
I was talking about likespaghetti or bread right Like
pastas breads.

Alban (36:30):
Is that a no go?
I think you're allowed to inthe no sugar challenge.
My feeling about the no sugarchallenge is added sugars are a
big source of calories and theAmerican diet it's how we get.
So this eliminates a lot ofprocessed foods and we're trying
to like, ramp up oursensitivity to this taste of
sugar so that a little bit oflike berries are whoa, that's

(36:53):
really sweet.
Not like berries.
Oh, they probably need likesugar on top and be next to a
cake for me to eat them.

Kevin (36:59):
All right, let's do it.
Hands in one, two, three, nosugar.

Jordan (37:02):
No sugar Bulk sprout.

Kevin (37:04):
Am I allowed to have like a glass of wine, I guess.
So it's a fruit right, justgrapes, all right.

Jordan (37:09):
You're much healthier.

Kevin (37:25):
I guess All right If you listen to the show.
Please support us by alsohaving no sugar for a week, and
then we're all going to comeback Exceptionally grumpy.

Alban (37:30):
Tell us, how are you doing?
Second sound off was Matt fromGirl Dad Nation.
He said I was listening to thenewest episode with Tom about
stats.
The guy that downloads thepodcast to burn to a CD is
awesome.
That was my story about the guyin Africa who's burning his
podcast to a CD.
And Matt said he still uses hisiPod Classic.
And then he sent a picture ofhim flying in Southwest Airlines

(37:54):
with an old iPod Classicplugged in and if you zoom in
you can see he's listening tohis own podcast in the photo.
Awesome, I love the iPodClassic.

Jordan (38:04):
I told him he needs to sell that thing on eBay.
It's like vintage.

Kevin (38:08):
I have a very old iPod Nano that I break out once in a
while, but the syncing hasbecome so difficult that I
usually give up.
I use it for a couple days andthen I'm like I can't keep
plugging this in I forget isnano, the clippy one I had the
very, very small one that isjust.
The whole thing is a clip, andso it was like for running.
You could like clip it on yourshirt, the whole thing.
It had a screen on it like itstill works, but I don't even

(38:31):
know how to sync it anymore.
Anonymous wrote in and said hi,I have my podcast with you and,
very ironically, instead oflistening to the Buzzsprout
informational one, buzzsproutWeekly, I would be thrilled if
you'd include the transcript inthe emails you send.
I definitely read it, but Iwon't listen.
Many others must feel the sameway I do, just offering feedback
in case that would be an option.
Thank you, same way I do, justoffering feedback, in case that

(38:52):
would be an option.
Thank you.

Alban (38:54):
So I saw this when it came in and I've been racking my
brain trying to understand it.
So maybe a clarifying point.
We write a weekly newsletterand we send it out with all the
stuff we think you should knowfrom the week.
And at some point Megan and Iwere talking we're like what if
we just read the email and werecord that as a podcast so if

(39:16):
somebody wanted to listen to itthey could.
That podcast is calledBuzzsprout Weekly.
The transcript is the email.
Like the email is that's thesource, that's the first thing.

Kevin (39:27):
Oh, I totally understand this, Alban.
I can clarify this for you.
I think the person found thepodcast somehow.
Maybe they went into theirpodcast app and they searched
for Buzzsprout or something andthey found Buzzsprout Weekly and
so they subscribed to it andthey started listening, but they
never have signed up for thenewsletter.
Or they unsubscribed at somepoint or something, or they're
not getting the newsletter butthey've subscribed to the

(39:47):
podcast and they might not knowthe newsletter exists.

Jordan (39:50):
But they said I would be thrilled if you'd include the
transcript in the emails yousend.

Kevin (39:57):
So they know we send emails.
We send some emails, but Idon't think they know that we
send this.

Alban (39:59):
Buzzsprout Weekly email.
Yeah Well, maybe we'll needsome clarification.
The email is the transcript,though, so maybe we could put a
link to that in the.

Kevin (40:06):
I think you should make sure in the show notes for every
Buzzsprout Weekly podcastepisode a link to sign up if
you'd rather read this as anewsletter.
Ooh, I think that's goodfeedback, not a bad idea.

Jordan (40:17):
That is good feedback.
Cool United Arab Emirateslistener hail Ben and the rest
of the team at Buzzcast.
First off, congrats onfinishing your 15K miles.
Such a funny coincidence, I waslistening to the episode while
doing my half marathon.

Alban (40:30):
Really hey, there we go.

Jordan (40:38):
I also wanted to say something to Tom regarding your
skepticism about using a webplayer to listen to podcasts.
I actually listen using Appleweb player while working on my
PC, since I prefer to keep myphone away from distractions.
Yeah, also never knew Alban wasa CrossFitter.
Alban, did we say, you're aCrossFitter?

Alban (40:47):
No, I'm definitely not a CrossFitter.
I've done CrossFit like threetimes and been injured from
CrossFit three times.
Oh no, it's a hundred percentinjury rate for me.
So I don't do CrossFit.
But I will attempt it with thelistener who is in Chicago, so
they said they were intoCrossFit.
I'll go work out.

Kevin (41:07):
Yeah, I do one CrossFit workout a year.
Can you guess which one?
It's gotta be?
Murph, right.
Yeah, it's the Murph.
It'sph.

Alban (41:13):
it's Memorial Day right yeah, it's, people do it for
Memorial Day.
Uh, for a veteran who passedit's something Murph?
Uh yeah, michael Murphy, whowas a US Navy SEAL he would used
to run a mile and then he'd dolike 100 pull-ups and 200
push-ups and 300 squats, thenhe'd run a mile and so
CrossFitters will wear like aweighted vest and do that

(41:33):
workout as fast as they can andit's brutal.
It's such an intense workoutand it's kind of like this
measuring stick for CrossFitpeople.

Jordan (41:43):
Yeah, yeah, ever since they put that CrossFit gym in
next door to me, I thought aboutit because I'm like it's right,
there, I could join a CrossFitgym, I could get in like the
best shape of my life.
And then every morning at 5.30,I'm sitting there drinking my
coffee, watching them runthrough my back alleyway and I'm
like, nah, I don't think I will.

Kevin (42:07):
It's a big lifestyle change and I absolutely applaud
the people who find it in themto shape their lives in that way
.
I love working out, but it'snever resonated with me in that
way.

Alban (42:14):
Allison from the Art of Home podcast reached out.
You guys have helped me keeppodcasting since 2001.
I just celebrated my fourthpodcast birthday on March 11th,
so thank you for that.
That is awesome, Allison.
She continues.
I really enjoyed today's episodeon stats.
While I firmly believe thatcomparison is the thief of joy,
sometimes it is helpful to knowwhere you stand in your niche.

(42:36):
Here's one way I found to do iton Spotify, which is where most
of my listeners are.
On the podcast homepage, justbelow the cover art and star
rating, there's a tiny rectangleshowing the most recent
episodes cover art.
Right next to it, the followbutton.
If you click that littlerectangle, it'll play a
soundbite from the latestepisode and it also shows you
how many followers that show hason Spotify.

(42:59):
It's not the same as downloadnumbers, of course, but seeing
the follower count still givesme a good sense of the reach of
other shows and of my own.
Yeah, that's really interesting, Allison.
I like that.
It's a bit buried too, becausemaybe go and seek it out once a
year.
We shouldn't obsess over it,but it's nice to know if you
want, just like a you know abouthow much bigger are other shows

(43:21):
or how much smaller, are they?
This will give you a little bitof an idea.

Kevin (43:24):
Brad Shreve wrote in and said what?
No mention of podcast addict.
I tried switching to PocketCast and I had to go back.
It doesn't have some of thefeatures that the others do, but
it is user-friendly and keepsimproving.
So that's probably my mistake.
I am an iPhone user and PodcastAddict is not on iOS, it is
Android only.
I have used it on Android and Ido agree it is a great app, but

(43:48):
it's not always top of mind forme.
So apologize, brad.
That is a great app, but it'snot always top of mind for me,
so I apologize, brad.
That is a great app, thanks forreminding me.

Jordan (43:53):
And then we got another message from Fort Washington,
Pennsylvania.
Gotta know, why is Buzzcast noton Spotify?
Well, actually we have goneover this too many times ad
nauseum.
That's right, we're going tospare our listeners from another
downward spiral.
Yeah, rant.

Alban (44:09):
Downward spiral.

Jordan (44:10):
Yeah, rant, downward spiral.
So episode 121, spotify's newpodcast strategy, we go in depth
about it.
We rant, we rave.
You will know fully everyreasoning behind us not being
listed on Spotify, so I willlink to that in the show notes
as well.

Alban (44:26):
Joe Motz, host of Caffeinated Jiu-Jitsu.
The episode on stayingmotivated for podcasting really
hit home.
I was re-energized my passionfor podcasting and showed me by
keeping things simple will makeit easier to continue forward.
Thank you for helping me keepmy passion brewing, Joe.
Thank you for the message.
That's really cool.
That's very encouraging for ustoo.

Kevin (44:46):
I like the pun there.
Keep his passion brewingCaffeinated.

Jordan (44:49):
Jiu.

Kevin (44:49):
Caffeinated jujitsu.
Yeah on brand.
Good job, joe.

Jordan (44:54):
All right, now sound off question from our last episode.
We wanted to hear from you whatis something about you that we
would not know from looking atstats?
So first up we have a messagesaying I'm a listener from
Steamboat Springs, colorado.
Thank you for the suggestion todive into listener engagement
numbers through Apple PodcastConnect.
While I don't have manylisteners, it is still helpful
to see what type of content mylisteners stick around for and

(45:16):
the content where they clearlystop listening.
Yes, that is by far the mostimportant one.

Alban (45:21):
Somebody else wrote.
Buzzcast episodes are some ofthe 1,809 podcast episodes I've
listened to in 2024 in Brisbane,australia, according to Pocket
Cast.
I'm aiming for 2000 in 2025.
That is so many podcastepisodes 2000 in a year.

(45:43):
That's like constant listening.

Jordan (45:45):
That reminds me of those challenges where people are
like I'm going to read 52 booksthis year.
It's like I'm going to listento 2000 podcasts.
That's fun.

Kevin (45:52):
Yeah, it makes me think that that is not a one X
listener, that is a.
That is a finely tuned ear.
That is a 1.5 X minimum.

Alban (46:00):
They're getting to a point where there aren't enough
hours in the day.

Jordan (46:03):
Did you see that YouTube is now testing out like four X
listening?
I just can't even fathom it.

Kevin (46:11):
That's, that's extreme.
Next person wrote in and saidlistening from Orlando Florida.
I live alone and I'm not reallya TV watcher, so I do usually
listen all day to either audiobooks or podcasts.
I have about 70 of them in myplaylist.
That's a lot.

Jordan (46:25):
Sarah Zett.
Wish I'd known then podcast,hey Buzzcast.
My phone number is from Floridabut I actually live in Spring,
texas Stats.
Won't tell you that I'm theauthor of over 30 mystery novels
that are whodunits, like AgathaChristie or Knives Out.
And LOL on the phrase the mostfun stat, because I never
associate statistics with fun,but I totally agree that the

(46:46):
location data makes me smileevery time.
Thanks, sarah.

Alban (46:50):
We got another one from the UAE.
From the phone number you'llprobably know I'm in the UAE and
I used to be a buzzsprouterbefore I podfaded.
Do some personal issues?
I believe Alban might rememberme.
I might, but I need to know alittle bit more about you.
There's lots of podcasters atUAE.
We've met a handful atconferences, so I'm sure I would
.
Maybe if I saw your face youtold us a little bit more.

(47:12):
Yeah, we've got to get you backinto podcasting.
I'm glad you're still listeningto the show.

Kevin (47:21):
And Barnabas from Kids Code Podcast wrote in and said I
listen from Windsor Vermont andI listen to podcasts and
created mine on a slow oldWindows PC yeah.
That's something we wouldn'tknow.
We don't have no insight intowhere you create your podcast,
Only like what people listen tothem on.
Yeah, Okay, so the sound offquestion for next week.
If Jordan didn't cut it fromthe intro to this episode I

(47:43):
hinted to it, but I think weshould go with it which is we
were talking about kind of somefoot in mouth moments.
These can happen through emailor can happen through email, or
it can happen through texts, ormaybe somebody overhears a
conversation they're notsupposed to.
But it doesn't necessarily haveto be podcasting related.
But it would just be fun tohear from people who listen to
the show, Like what is yourfunny, you know foot in mouth

(48:03):
moment where you were maybemortified or felt a pit in your
stomach that you texted somebodysomething on accident or
emailed something accidentally.
I'd love to hear it.
We just are interested inlearning more about people who
listen to the show andconnecting more with you.
So if you have a story that youwouldn't mind sharing with us
and having us share it withanyone who listens to this show,
please click the link in theshow notes and send it our way.

Jordan (48:26):
Oh man, I can't wait, all right, Until next time, keep
podcasting.
Can't wait, all right, untilnext time, keep podcasting.

Kevin (48:35):
Okay, Alban, welcome back from the big trip out west.

Alban (48:38):
Thank you, kevin.
Glad to be home, glad to be inthe humidity again.

Kevin (48:42):
Yeah, so just to catch up , jordan, I think you know, but
you know Alban told us that forhis spring break he was going to
fly out to Las Vegas.
For his spring break he wasgoing to fly out to Las Vegas,
pick up some sort of RV-ish,off-road-ish type vehicle
situation with his wife anddaughter and some friends of
theirs, and then they were goingto travel into as many national
parks as they could hit ontheir way over to Denver I think

(49:04):
Is Denver where you flew out of.

Alban (49:05):
Yeah, we flew out of Denver Yep so long road trip
over nine days, and we went to abunch of national parks and had
a honestly a blast yeah.

Kevin (49:14):
So I want to hear all about this.
Alban Like, here's somethingthat people who listen to the
show might not know Jordan, youmay not know, but you know cause
.
Alban and I spend a lot of timetogether outside of the office
as well.
We share a lot of interests,and so Alban and I share our
locations with each other on ourphone.

Alban (49:29):
Oh no.
I don't know where this isgoing.

Kevin (49:33):
And so I want to say, a couple of times during the week
I had loaded up, you know, tofind my application to figure
out where various kids were atcertain times or whatever, and
so I'm watching Alban kind ofyou know, like every time the
map would pop up, Alban wouldlike jump another 300 miles
Northeast, northeast, Northeast,and he's making his way through
some of the coolest places inthe United States.

(49:53):
I was insanely jealous thewhole time.
But I want to say Friday nightI was curious.
My daughter was like trying toreplace her phone or something
and I was trying to figure outif her location was working.
So I loaded up and I noticedthat, Alban, it looked like you
might have been having the bestWestern experience that anybody
could possibly have.
Did I see that?

(50:15):
Was that accurate?
Were you really having the bestWestern experience?

Alban (50:20):
Yes, we, we we were in a best Western, so you were not
supposed to be in a best Western.
You're not supposed to be thebest Western that's funny that
you saw that I've had this dreamfor most of my life and it was
to travel across the country inan RV and mostly live out of the
RV, and whenever I was likedoing a house project I was sick

(50:41):
of.
I just have this fantasy oflike, you know, you could just
live out of an RV, you know, betotally fine, you could just
like have a really niceairstream Like who needs this
stupid house, Right?

Kevin (50:52):
Just whatever dirt road comes your way, you just pull
off onto it and wherever thewind blows you, and then you
camp for the night.
And you're really roughing itin your RV, right.

Alban (51:02):
My wife.
She did not share this dreamwith me, but she was open to
letting it like.
We're going to try it out for atime.
And, oh my gosh, RVs may not bethat bad, but they're done.
They're done in the Brookefamily for sure.

Jordan (51:17):
Oh, no, what happened?

Alban (51:18):
It's going to take years to tell you.
So this is all true.
This is the most abbreviated Ican make it.
We pick up an RV from IndyCampers.
First thing I notice theemployees are in the parking lot
grilling.
They've got to grill out,they're grilling food this is
aligning perfectly with how Iwould envision it so I'm like
okay, little strange that mostof them are out here grilling,

(51:40):
but whatever, like you know,people go eat lunch but it's
like 2 30, so it's a little bitstrange but not a big deal.
Yeah, go inside.
There's like open milk and openoj sitting on a table.
That are like clearly old andit says free next to it.

Kevin (51:55):
I'm like that's weird.

Alban (51:57):
Again, these are like slightly red flags, but
nothing's keyed me up and yet Igo in.
I get kind of a hard sellupgrade the insurance, upgrade
to the unlimited miles, do this,do that, and I'm like I'm good,
I'm just, I figured it all out,I'm happy with what I've got.
Yeah, we go out to theunlimited miles, do this, do
that, and I'm like I'm good, I'mjust, I figured it all out.
I'm happy with what I've got.
Yeah, we go out to the car andfirst thing I look at are the
tires.
We're driving through snow andI'm telling you, pure bald tire.

(52:20):
And so I go yeah, we can't takethis vehicle.
And they're like why not?
This is the vehicle.
And I'm like dude, we can'tdrive a bald tire.
And she goes okay, here's whatyou can do.
Take it now, sign off that it'sall good, take it to the tire
shop.
We'll call up and they'll puton new tires for you.
I'm not taking possession of avehicle with ball tires.
And she starts disappearing forlike 15, 20 minutes at a time

(52:45):
and eventually comes back andI'm like look, if you want to
refund it because you can't getus another vehicle, no problem,
I'll go get a rental car rightnow.
Then we get a new vehicle,number two.
Vehicle Number two no propane,no water, full gray water tank,
probably full sewage tank andnot cleaned.
And they go this is the vehicle.
Now she disappears again.
My buddy looks out the windowand he goes hey, isn't that the

(53:07):
girl helping you walking downthe street?
And I assume to go get some ofthe stuff we paid for and I'm
like she'll be back, probablygoing to storage or something.
No, she'd clocked out and wasgone, only is going to get worse
.
It's unbelievable.
We finally get it all sorted.
One guy jumps in, he helps.

(53:27):
When we get there, we're out inthe middle of nowhere.
Sheets are all stained.

Jordan (53:32):
Ew Like not washed, oh no.

Alban (53:34):
So I look it up to drive to Walmart the nearest Walmart
is like 45 minutes away and itcloses in 51 minutes and I go
unplug the car.
Right now we're going, we loadup, we're running as fast as we
can down the mountain oh, ourlicense plate lights out.
No, running as fast as we candown the mountain oh, our
license plate lights out.
No chance to stop.
Got to get these sheets, getthem come back.
Oh, the privacy curtainsweren't included with the RV.

(53:58):
So now I'm hanging sheets to tryto get some privacy.
We're still going to make itwork.
No big deal.
The fire extinguisher isn't inthe vehicle.
Your tolerance for no big dealis way way down the road from
where I am.
I'm solving these problems.

Jordan (54:13):
Because you're going to make your dream work.

Alban (54:15):
I'm going to make this dream work.
No fire extinguisher chips inthe windshield.
I'm like I can handle thesethings.
We're going to be good, butwe're not cooking with propane
anymore because stuff's rackingup.

Jordan (54:27):
Yeah.

Alban (54:28):
And we're like we're going to make it.
Things are feeling good again,and day three, we lose all water
.

Kevin (54:33):
Oh gosh.

Alban (54:35):
Water just starts pouring out of the bottom of the
vehicle, no reason why.
We don't know what's going on.
And that was the moment I wentover the edge.
I'm like we can't wash ourhands, we can't use the restroom
, no, and I start writing in andthis company is insane.
This is the standard.
I start researching and there'sthousands of reviews about

(54:57):
indie campers online where theyjust send them out totally
busted and then when people sayyeah, I guess like I got peer
pressured into saying it wasgood they do and we bring it
back.
This is what's happened to myfriend.
They took photos of all thedamage.
It was all logged.
Today they got hit with a$10,000 fine, like charged to

(55:20):
their card, for being in anaccident.
They weren't in an accident, no, and it's the damage that was
already there that has beendocumented.
Again, you'd think it was likejust a joke.

Jordan (55:32):
This sounds like a scam.

Alban (55:33):
It is.
I really am at a point whereI'm like this is intentional.
This is not a legal opinion,this is just a personal belief.
But if you go research Indiecampers online, one thing you'll
find are lots of negativereviews.
Another thing you'll find is alot of reviews by Alban Brooke.

Kevin (55:51):
I am in full on.
How did you not see any ofthese reviews in all?

Alban (55:55):
the research you did, dude.
There's a handful of sites nowthat look like their reviews are
really good, and I'm seeingsome of these sites with.
I'm realizing now like it seemslike Trustpilot might be one of
them where they have greatreviews.
Now it seems like Trustpilotmight be one of them.
Where they have great reviews,they will pay people to remove

(56:16):
the bad reviews.
Oh no, so that one's anallegation.
I'm not.
I don't know that to be true.
I've now read that on Reddit.
Who knows if that's true, butit's wild.
And I'm in full on Larry Davidspite store mode.
Kevin, you're going to start upyour own RV rental.
I do it.
I'm just.
I'm writing them every day.
They write back and they've nowoffered me a refund of up to I

(56:37):
don't know like $118 foreverything Like a totally
unusable RV.
Oh, brutal.
I'm totally leaning into thiswith like pure joy.
I'm like you know, this tripwas awesome, with the exception
of the Indy Camper, but I thinkthis is the first project that's
like unified every part of me.
It's got the lawyer part of me,it's got the marketer part of

(57:01):
me, it's got the spiteful kindof jerk part of me, it's got all
of it and it's all motivated tospread the word about how bad
IndyCampers is and, like we'vebeen done with this trip for
four days, it's not leaving mymind.
I'm like, so locked in.
This is the biggest projectI've taken on.
I'm excited to see where itgoes.

Jordan (57:23):
Alban, if this was a miniseries podcast about, like,
the demise of IndyCamper, Iwould listen to it Like a man's
journey to destroy Indy.
Camper.
I would listen to it.
A man's journey to destroy IndyCamper.

Alban (57:33):
I mean this with true seriousness.
From what I've read, I am a bitsurprised there has not been a
class action lawsuit.
There is so, so many peoplewho've said hey, I was peer
pressured into signing thisthing.
I was really disorganized.
I drove it.
It had issues.
They wouldn't fix it.
I took it.
It had issues, they wouldn'tfix it.
I took it and got it fixed.

(57:54):
They wouldn't refund it.
And then they charged my cardfraudulently.
There's enough of those onlineand I'm like good grief, and
they're paying people to removethe bad ones.
There's a lot of people outthere.
It makes me think like therecould be some sort of class
action out there.

Kevin (58:12):
Yeah, I think the reality is is that most people, myself
included just I just don't haveit in me to fight the bad
experiences that hard and Ithink most people probably don't
.
Like I would take it back, Iwould reverse the charges with
my credit card, I would leavelike one one star review and
just be like don't rent fromthese people, they're terrible.

Alban (58:30):
As of right now, I've done one podcast interview.
That's this right now.
And 11 reviews.
11 reviews, dude, I'm findingeverything I find I'm like.
Oh, there's the social mediaposts they put on their website.
I'm happy to go into those paidsocial posts and start writing
reviews there.
Oh, this is your educationalvideo on how to run the camper.

(58:51):
I'm going to tell people don'tsign your contract and get out
of there if you can.
These are all the true story ofwhat happened to me on my trip,
and if I'm only getting $117back, there's multiple thousands
of dollars of spite out thereto be gained.

Jordan (59:06):
Oh yeah.

Kevin (59:06):
Yeah, it seems like this is invigorating some level of
joy in you to be able to sharethis story.

Alban (59:13):
I don't know why.
I'm enjoying it so much.
But it's like I think maybeit's this Kevin.
For so long I've been on theother side of a company that one
person writes in and we feel itand we're like, oh wow, we
really didn't do right bysomebody.
They thought they canceledtheir podcast, but they didn't.
We could have made that alittle bit easier.
And then we work with them andwe refund months of payments.

(59:36):
And it wasn't our fault, but wewant to do the right thing and I
use Amex and they always treatyou so well and Delta treats me
so well, and there's so manycompanies and then I ran across
one that I believe at this pointis actively trying to scam
people out of money.

Jordan (59:52):
Yeah.

Alban (59:52):
And I'm like all this goodness from all these great
companies that try so hard.
You know, people really shouldbe leaning into making sure
these bad reviews get out thereand someone's got to take a lot
of interest in it, and I don'tknow why, but it has.
It's caught me.
So to be continued, I guess Ican't wait.

Kevin (01:00:11):
So let's end on a positive note.
Tell me how wonderful it waswhen you crashed at that Best
Western hotel, Because BestWestern probably doesn't get a
lot of really great reviews.
So here's your opportunity togo to Best Western and say when
I felt like I was at rock bottomand things couldn't get any
worse in terms of accommodationson this trip, Best Western came
through and saved the day withtheir clean sheets and their

(01:00:32):
cool air conditioning.

Alban (01:00:33):
I'll tell you this.
We stayed at a Best Western,but the Westin's where my wife
who Kevin knows is pretty mellowshe walked in and was so happy
to be out of the camper.
She jumped and squealed andwent oh, this is nice, and I've
never seen her do that in 10years of marriage.

(01:00:53):
I'm like you've never done that.
When I came home from a worktrip and you were, she was so
happy to be out of that camperand I was like man, you know,
sometimes you can solve aproblem with $170 hotel room and
I did.
And to see that much joy I waslike, oh, this is awesome, like
I would pay this every time.

(01:01:14):
So Westin, best Western,gravity House, all the hotels we
booked on a whim to get out ofthat thing.
Thank you to all you and thankyou to Walmart, the only place
that will sell you sheets at 11o'clock at night in the middle
of nowhere, thank God forWalmart.