April 25, 2025 • 50 mins
What would you do if someone offered you $100 million for your podcast?
In this episode, we dive into Steven Bartlett’s recent disclosure that he turned down not one, but two massive podcasting deals — including a $100M offer. Why? Because they came with strings attached: platform exclusivity, ad overload, and a loss of creative control.
We discuss why prioritizing your listeners, values, and long-term vision might be worth more than the biggest paycheck. Plus, we hear the drawbacks of video podcasting through perspectives of reluctant celebrity podcasters.
Mentioned in this episode:
- The Only Men Allowed to Podcast Are Tween Boys
- The Diary of a CEO Turned Down $100M Podcast Deal
- Smartless: Maria Shriver
- Office Ladies: Webisodes: The Podcast & The Office Ladies Podcast Pilot
- The Compassion of Sound
Sound-off question: What is the strangest podcast growth tip that actually works?
Contact Buzzcast
- Send us a text message
- Tweet us at @buzzcastpodcast, @albanbrooke, @kfinn, and @JordanPods
Thanks for listening and Keep Podcasting!
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Kevin (00:00):
Do you guys want to hear about my Uber ride this morning?
Got in the car, very nicegentleman driving me home from
the auto repair shop.
He was listening to whatsounded like talk radio, but I
noticed it was coming throughApple CarPlay.
So I of course asked what areyou listening to?
And it was a sports programthat I'd never heard of before.
And I said, oh, is that apodcast?
And he said no, I don't knowanything about podcasts.
(00:21):
And I said, oh well, what areyou listening on?
And he said TikTok live.
What TikTok live every morning?
And I said, oh, is this like aregular show that you listen to
on TikTok live?
Yeah, and he said, yeah, everymorning these guys come on and
they do their show live onTikTok.
So I just go on TikTok, Ifollow them.
It pops up and I just listen toit as I drive around.
(00:43):
And so we talked a little bitabout what podcasts are and that
he doesn't have to tune in atthe same time every day.
He could listen whenever hewants.
And again, I can't remember thename of the show, but I asked
him if these guys had a podcast.
So we loaded up Apple Podcastson his phone.
We searched for them.
We found their show and so nowhe can listen any time of the
day and he was very thankful,wow.
(01:09):
So I was thinking like maybe alot of people are listening to
things on YouTube and TikTok andstuff, but podcasts might be a
better solution for them.
That's what it got me thinking,at least for this gentleman.
He seemed appreciative.
He might've just been beingpolite, but he was like no, this
is great.
So like now, if I'm driving inthe afternoons and my morning
show is not on, I can stilllisten to the morning show.
I was like, yeah, that'sexactly, it's like on demand.
Jordan (01:28):
He's like this is great.
This is exactly what a podcastis.
Kevin (01:31):
So I changed a life for the better today with podcasting
.
Alban (01:33):
Wow, that's great.
Kevin Finn podcast evangelistyeah.
Jordan (01:37):
You know, that reminds me of that story that I saw I
think it was a couple of weeksago, maybe last week, and it was
those tween boys that have thatpodcast that they're basically
streaming on like TikTok andYouTube.
It's like a bunch of like foodreviewers, but they have no
experience in like tasting foods, so they talk about like school
lunches and stuff, and I wasreally surprised to see that
(01:58):
they didn't have their show onpodcast apps.
It's literally just likeYouTube and Twitter, and so I
wonder if there's just someweird sub-genre of people who
are podcasting by streaming onthese platforms.
But I didn't realize that theycould do that on TikTok.
Kevin (02:13):
Yeah, I didn't know that either.
What also was interesting isthe conversation took a weird
twist when I said do they haveany ads?
Do they do any ads in theirshow?
And he said, no, they just getpaid by TikTok.
And so I was like, well, whywould TikTok pay them?
And he's like, because TikTokhas a lot of money.
Alban (02:32):
So they just no somewhere .
Tiktok has to be making money.
A lot of the live streams Iremember for a while were making
money because people would likedonate to the live stream.
Kevin (02:40):
He did say that.
He said there is a way that youcan just give them money.
He said, like you can give themcoins or hats.
I was like hats, what do youmean?
You give them a hat.
He's like I don't know, there'sa little hat button.
I can click it and then the hatgoes on their head if you're
watching it.
But it costs you money to put ahat on their head.
Alban (03:11):
And he's like I think they get the hat button and then
that solved it all.
The value for value stuff.
No, it wasn't that, it wasn'tpatreon, it wasn't exclusive
content.
Kevin (03:15):
It was, and I feel like we were close a couple months
ago when I switched my profileimage to the cowboy hat image.
Yeah, like we were justteetering around the idea we
just missed, missed it.
But like how, as a listener tothis show, how much would you
pay to be able to put hats on us?
Alban (03:29):
Well, I can tell you someone very famous, kevin, a
podcaster who always wears a hat, is Tim pool, that's right.
Jordan (03:36):
What a segue I?
Kevin (03:37):
saw the news article.
I saw the headline that abuzzsprout podcaster has made it
into the white house press pool.
Jordan (03:43):
Oh boy.
Kevin (03:44):
A former Buzzsprout podcaster, former.
Alban (03:45):
Buzzsprout.
Right yeah, so that's thesecond former Buzzsprout
podcaster who has been in theWhite House, the first being
former President Joe Biden andnow frequent hat wearer Tim.
Kevin (03:57):
Pool Is a beanie.
A hat?
Yeah, I guess it is a hat.
It's a genre of hat, but nobodycalls it a hat?
Jordan (04:01):
Is it a hat or a sock?
Alban (04:05):
Head sock.
Yeah Well, we're still waitingfor our Press Pool briefing
badge.
Kevin (04:11):
Yeah so we talked about that on this show that the White
House opened up a new mediaseat and one of the types of
people that they were lookingfor were podcasters.
They brought in a podcasterlast week.
It was Tim Pool, who is acontroversial figure in the new
media space.
We're not saying anything goodor bad, we're just saying he is
a podcaster and we can also saythat he started I think he
(04:36):
launched his first podcast onBuzzsprout since moved to.
I don't know a differentnetwork.
He moved to Megaphone shortlyafter For ad deals and stuff
like that.
Jordan (04:45):
Yeah.
Kevin (04:45):
So no longer a Buzzsprouter, but got to ask
Caroline Levitt a question.
I think it was not a questionthat has anything to do with
podcasting, so we won't cover it.
But he got in there.
Alban (04:59):
I just want to know what's the best way to start a
podcast.
After that follow-up, what'sthe best way to keep podcasting?
I've got to know like, oh, whata great question, you just got
to go to buzzsproutcom.
Jordan (05:16):
Welcome back to buzzcast podcast about all things
podcasting for the people atbuzzsprout.
So we're going to start offwith an attention grabbing
headline.
People at Buzzsprout.
So we're going to start offwith an attention-grabbing
headline.
Bartlett turned down massive100 million podcast deal.
And that's Stephen Bartlettfrom Diary of CEO, and he
recently disclosed that he hadturned down two pretty big
(05:36):
podcasting deals, one worthabout $100 million and the other
I'm not entirely sure, but I'mguessing it's a lot.
Did you guys get a chance toread this article?
Alban (05:46):
Yeah, I did.
It's interesting to see hisrationale for turning down $100
million First off.
That's just so much money andeven when it's totally against
your principles, it's reallyimpressive to see people turn it
down.
I mean, that's notlife-changing money.
That's like forever never workagain and also your kids and
(06:06):
their grandchildren never workagain.
Money if you want it to be, butvery cool to see him kind of
make this decision and talkabout it publicly.
Do we know where those dealscame from, by the way?
Jordan (06:16):
He did not disclose that .
I'm assuming one of them wasprobably Spotify, because there
was a little bit of a mentionabout how this was during the
time when there were these bigacquisitions, and he did mention
that one of the reasons why heturned down this huge deal was
because they were wanting him tobe platform exclusive, and I
(06:36):
believe that Spotify was one ofthe only platforms that was
doing the platform exclusivedeals.
Alban (06:42):
Yeah, I actually just heard there was a little clip
from the Netflix where Netflixwas doing the platform exclusive
deals.
Yeah, I actually just heardthere was a little clip from the
Netflix where Netflix was doingtheir earnings call and they
asked about podcasting and theirCEO had a response about video
podcasters starting to get moreand more similar to talk shows.
Kevin (06:59):
Yeah.
Alban (06:59):
And so you could see us bringing those kind of talk
shows onto our platform, and soit made me wonder if maybe the
more recent of the deals mightcome from Netflix, because his
diary of CEO is availableeverywhere on podcast listening
apps, but it's predominantly onYouTube, and so I wondered if
maybe they were trying to pullthem on there.
Jordan (07:20):
Another reason why he turned down this deal was
because he said that it would bea 300% increase in ad sales on
his episodes, which isridiculous.
So he would have to go platformexclusive and then have three
times the amount of ads on hispodcast than he wants.
He wouldn't have creativecontrol over the podcast.
(07:43):
Looking at it, it's like yeah,that's a life-changing amount of
money.
And then you look at it andit's like that could also tank
your podcast and he would bebeholden to the platform that
he's on.
Alban (07:54):
So there was this other little bit that he mentioned,
and it's funny.
We're trying to pull apartmultiple deals that we haven't
been able to see.
But $100 million is like youknow, your eyes pop.
And then it's multi-year payouttied to performance targets.
Jordan (08:09):
Yeah.
Alban (08:10):
And then you're like Ooh, and then it's three times the
adverts, ooh, and less creativecontrol.
And then you realize that he'salready making a massive amount
of money with the podcast.
Now, if you have to hit theseperformance targets over a
five-year period, then it'sreally looking like 20 million a
(08:31):
year for five years if youcontinue to grow and you pump
massive amounts of ads into yourshow.
Kevin (08:37):
You know it reminds me of and I don't want to take
anything away from the fact thathe turned down a generational
wealth amount of money, as Albansaid earlier.
I'm not saying that's easy, butI am reminded of.
There's a tech person who Ifollow and they are 100
millionaires.
They have made it way beyondbig.
(08:58):
And he talked one time aboutthe different stages of wealth
that he's been able to gothrough in his life and he was
like there's a really big jump.
That kind of happens for him.
Anyway, his experience betweengoing from being pretty wealthy
at making hundreds of thousandsof dollars a year to being a
multimillionaire he was likethat was pretty life-changing.
(09:18):
I used to live in a nice houseand drive a nice car, but now I
could take multiple vacations ayear, I could have multiple cars
, I could have a bigger house ormultiple houses, and that
happened between, you know, acouple hundred thousand dollars
a year and a couple milliondollars a year, and he said that
was the biggest life changefrom there forward to like
accumulating $50 million and ahundred million dollars.
(09:38):
He's like you know, yeah, I cando all these things.
I could have a private jet, Icould have a helicopter, I could
probably buy an Island or stuff, but those weren't things that
were really desirable for himand he was, like it, just kind
of felt I don't know gluttonous,like too much or whatever.
I don't know that you'd havethat perspective before you got
there.
I certainly don't have thatperspective now, like it would
be hard to turn down a hundredmillion dollars, but at least
(09:59):
for somebody who'd been throughit it was interesting to hear
them talk about it from thatperspective.
Anyway, it makes me think, likeStephen Bartlett, the entire
CEO, it sounds like he's alreadymade the huge life-changing
thing where he has more moneythan he will ever possibly need
and anything that he wants to door anything that you can get
with money.
He can probably already get thenext level jump.
Maybe he had enough foresightto see that what he'd be giving
(10:22):
up in the quality of life andthe joy and the creative
expression and the control of ashow like that's not worth it
just to be able to I don't knowhave a private jet that you can
call on.
Alban (10:31):
It is important to remember.
You know you can turn thingsinto money sometimes, but is
that what you want to do?
Do you want to spend day in,day out working for whatever
company he'd be working for anddoing shows that they want to do
and pumping ads in and notbeing able to control it, when
maybe you do get four or fivetimes as much money as you would
have otherwise?
(10:51):
But the lifestyle may notchange drastically in a positive
way, and if you can see yourwork life actually getting a bit
more annoying now you're inmeetings about whether or not
you're allowed to interviewsomebody you want to interview,
or okay, people are mad thatthere's all these weird ads in
my show now and I can't make thedecision.
That could be much more of acost than the additional money
(11:14):
might've been worth.
Jordan (11:16):
His vision for his podcast was really to diversify
where his income streams arecoming from, and he saw way more
value in that than just gettingthis huge brand deal.
It seems like it's up front,but it's not up front.
So he talked about equity dealswhere he would get shares in a
company in exchange for doingads or being sponsored by them.
(11:38):
He talked about these long-termpartnerships where you actually
integrate the brand into thepodcast and so it seems a little
bit more like natural and fluidin your.
Your audience can get familiarwith that brand and there's just
all these different things with, like, merch or listener
subscriptions.
So there's all these differentways that you can make money,
and he chose to just bet on thatas opposed to getting this like
(12:01):
upfront cash and then and thenmaybe it'll work out.
Kevin (12:04):
Right, you talked on equity deals and I think that
Tim Ferriss made a lot of hisworth out of doing equity deals
and just being able to createrelationships.
So he was an author and apodcaster for many years and
through the relationships on hispodcast he got opportunities to
invest in companies at somevery early stages.
I think he also was introducedto some new products and
(12:27):
companies and would like themhimself and said listen, I want
to be like an ambassador forthis product, so don't pay me to
do the ad.
I'm going to talk about it whenit feels natural.
I'm going to help build it, butin exchange for whatever a
small percent of equity in thecompany 2% or 5% or something
like that and that has workedout for him really well.
Jordan (12:50):
He's crushing the wealth side of life anyway, yeah, and
I think that's something thatseeing these huge, massive deals
and thinking like podcasterscan really take away from this
how important it is to be loyalto your listeners and be
intentional with your podcastand long-term, that will build
up the success of your podcastway more than selling out for
these like programmatic ads thatare just going to alienate
(13:11):
listeners.
It's going to annoy them, theymight drop off, and so I think
it's really important to keepthat in mind, that, no matter
how big your podcast is, it'sjust important to be thinking
about your listeners first andforemost.
Alban (13:22):
The thing I took away from it was you need to remember
and keep in mind am I doing thething that I want to do, even
if there's a big bunch of moneycoming with the thing you don't
want to do, then pay attention.
Well, if it's not the thing, Iwant, to be spending the next
five years of my life who knowswhere Steven will be in five
years?
And if it's not what he wantsto do, then awesome, great
(13:44):
decision.
Yeah, I don't want to do it.
And the other piece was man,this deal sounds insane when
it's 100 million, but thenyou're like oh, it's over five
years, there's earnouts, there'sactually a bunch of ads,
there's platform exclusivity,and then you add all that up and
you're like okay, it startsfeeling like the present day
value of this deal is way, waysmaller and the lost revenue
(14:07):
from the show being exclusiveand him not getting all the ads
anymore, probably it wasn't asbig of a turndown, I guess, as
we imagine.
Jordan (14:15):
Yeah, I think that's so true because it is.
It's just this headline whereit's like turn down $100 million
and you're like whoa, what,that's crazy.
And then you look at it andyou're like actually, yeah, that
was the right choice.
Kevin (14:27):
So the takeaway here would be when those $100 million
offers start flowing in foryour podcast show.
Jordan (14:33):
Which it will.
Kevin (14:34):
Don't sign too fast.
Think it through, read all thedetails, and maybe there's a
lesson that Stephen Bartlett hasto share with you.
Jordan (14:51):
All right.
Alban (14:52):
So I know that a couple episodes ago we promised, we
swore that we would not rantabout video podcasting again,
but I found a loophole.
What's our loophole, Jordan?
Jordan (14:59):
Our loophole is our wonderful listeners, who sent us
clips of celebrity podcaststalking about video podcasting,
and also some friends in theindustry talking about it too.
So we're going to discuss thatand it's it's not us, it's them.
Kevin (15:15):
All right.
Jordan (15:16):
I'm going to play a couple of clips here.
So the first was sent to usfrom David John Clark of late
bloomer Actor.
So there's an episode of SmartList from the month of April and
they had Maria Shriver on.
Kevin (15:29):
The Maria Shriver.
Jordan (15:31):
The beautiful Maria Shriver.
Smartless (15:35):
We can talk to you about anything though, is what I
love about you you can tackleany issue.
Yes, that's why I can't wait totalk about 10,000 things.
But you said to me I said whatI'm so excited about is the only
show I've ever gone on where Ihaven't prepared at all, because
you told me not to prepare atall.
Correct so I didn't brush myhair.
I had no makeup.
Yeah, because we're not AnythingRight?
We're not filming this, it'sjust audio, it's a podcast.
(15:56):
You know, Don't explain to herwhat a podcast is Thank you.
Will.
Thank you.
I mean, my God, this is abridge too far, yeah, really.
Jordan (16:07):
Oh my God, I could listen to Will Arnett talk all
day.
I love his voice, batman, yeah.
Kevin (16:14):
I love it.
Hey, I will play the part ofMaria Shriver today.
This is exactly why I loveaudio podcasting.
I don't have to do my hair,which is like an impossible task
for me.
I don't have to.
It doesn't matter what I'mwearing, I don't even have to
read the outline, I just show upand chime in with stupidity
aplenty, and that's a podcast.
Jordan (16:36):
All right, and so this next clip that we have is from
Remy Roy, host of the DrivenIntrovert.
Let's know that the officeladies also had a rant about
video podcasting when a listenerasked them to make a video
version of the show.
Office Ladies (16:50):
We have discussed many times the idea of adding a
video element of the podcast,and it boils down to this.
I don't want to yeah, I mean,it's a podcast.
Aren't podcasts just bydefinition something you listen
to?
Why do we have to watcheverything?
Why does?
everything have a video.
(17:10):
I like the idea of somethingthat I just listen to and I
think once a camera's there, itchanges how you share.
It's not as intimate.
I feel like I would be aware ofthe camera in some way.
The camera would be like thisextra person in the room that I
would clock in to the camera.
(17:31):
I just like that.
There's not this third thing inthe room, it's just me and you
having a conversation.
Well, listen, we tried it veryearly on.
Back in the Earwolf studios,Josh and Lee came in with two
cameras and they set up lightsfor us and we tried to record
the podcast while we were beingvideotaped.
(17:54):
And it was horrible.
We didn't even put that podcastout, we stopped in the middle
and we were like shut offcameras.
I was so self-conscious, I wasso like I don't know, I didn't
like it.
Also, sometimes I don't want tobrush my hair before we record
and I want to wear my sweatpantsand I want to be in my cozies
(18:16):
and I just don't want to feellike I'm on display.
Oh, I know.
Kevin (18:21):
It's another good clip.
Jordan (18:23):
Okay, so this is two actresses who have built a
career on being in front of acamera and they're saying no,
absolutely not, Turn it off.
We're not doing this.
Kevin (18:34):
Yeah, and I'm picking up on a theme here.
Jordan (18:36):
Yeah, women don't like to get ready.
Kevin (18:38):
Hair and podcasting do not mix.
I feel like maybe this is whyso many video podcasters are
bald men Do we think?
Jordan (18:49):
I think you're onto something.
Alban (18:51):
Is Stephen Bartlett from Diary of a CEO.
Does he have hair?
What's the hair situation?
Jordan (18:56):
We were talking about Tim Pool.
He wears that beanie all thetime.
Alban (19:00):
That's the video podcasting hack.
Is the eventual beanie?
Yeah, all right, stephenBartlett does have hair, but it
is pretty closely cropped, somaybe he doesn't have to do too
much work.
Kevin (19:12):
Yeah, yeah, I'm sorry.
You're making a really goodpoint about these being
professional actresses who are,like I was, assumingly very
comfortable on camera and yetthey still did not like the
camera for their podcast.
Yeah.
Alban (19:23):
I feel that too.
I mean, how many times have youbeen somewhere and you're just
having friends?
You're hanging out with friends, you're having a good time,
you're at a wedding and peopleare dancing and then you realize
somebody's pulled their phoneout and you're like oh,
everything changed as soon asthere's video and it's being
recorded.
Then you're watching yourselfand you're going okay, is this
(19:44):
cool?
What am I doing?
Is it fun?
Are people going to like itwhen they watch it back?
And that running in your headchanges all of the feel, all the
feelings that you have aboutwhatever you're doing.
Yeah, and I feel that withpodcasting, for some reason,
with audio, I don't feel as muchof that self-conscious kind of
checking oh, what are we saying,how are we performing, how do
(20:07):
we show up?
Instead, you're just a littlebit more authentic, and maybe
that's to our detrimentsometimes, but I think often you
just end up being a little bitmore casual.
It's another reason why I likepodcasts more than live audio,
because you can say somethingand go oh, that was kind of dumb
or I didn't.
I don't really agree with that.
I don't know why I said it thatway.
Let me cut it.
(20:28):
And it kind of takes two of theinhibitors of being authentic
and sharing off the cuff.
I'm not being recorded videoand I had the chance to go back
and re-say something if I get itwrong.
Jordan (20:42):
It makes it so you can be much more real.
Yeah, I actually cut that clipa little bit short because it
was a longer clip, but they wenton to talk about how they also
don't like how judgy people arewhen they do video.
They get so sick of peoplemaking comments like when did
her chin start looking like that?
Or getting distracted insteadof like oh, brutal.
Chin reviews, but I mean, youknow how people on the internet
(21:05):
are.
they get like snarky and theyhave comments about everything
they have to like judge howsomeone looks or how someone has
aged, and what that reminded meof so much was that blog that
you actually shared with us,kevin.
The compassion of audio fromHindenburg.
Kevin (21:20):
Yes.
Jordan (21:21):
And in that Nick actually mentioned that.
That's kind of the beautifulthing about audio is we turn off
our judgment for a hot second.
You know what I mean?
There's just something builtinto us that when we see someone
on video we're judging and thatcould be a good judgment or a
bad judgment, but it just itsort of like having those visual
cues of what someone's wearing,how someone looks, kind of
(21:47):
takes us out of it for a second.
We get distracted by the waythat someone like blinks, or the
way that someone is dressing orfidgeting with something while
they're speaking, and in audioyou don't have that.
Kevin (21:55):
Yeah, that's profound.
I don't know that.
I've spent a lot of timethinking about that until you
just raised it, but for sure Iwould agree with if I'm watching
someone, I can see what theylook like.
I don't think it's conscious,but I think subconsciously I'm
probably making assessments ofwhether they are like me or not
based on how they look, based onhow they dress, based on cues I
pick up on just by theirappearance, and then I probably
(22:20):
value or devalue some of thethings that they're saying based
on how similar I perceive themto be to me.
And with audio you don't havethat as much.
You might have a little bit ofthe oh by the voice.
I'm sort of envisioning whatthis person might look like, but
it's definitely not right inyour face.
And so I do find myselfoftentimes listening to audio
(22:42):
and I hope, hope, I feel likethis is true, being more open
minded to ideas that I might nothave myself, or being in a
position where I could beconvinced that you're right even
though initially I didn't lovethe idea of this that you're
expressing this viewpoint andI'm like, oh, I'm really against
that.
I see that different way.
But then, after listening tothem for 20 or 30 minutes I
might come around to at least totheir perspective.
(23:04):
Like I still might not agreewith it, but at least I
understand where you're comingfrom now because I'm really
engaging in the idea more than Iam the person, somebody who
I've perceived to come from atotally different walk of life.
So we're never going to see eyeto eye immediately.
It's like I don't know whatwalk of life you come from, I
don't know your story, so I'mjust hearing your perspective.
I'm just kind of judging youbased on the argument you're
presenting and trying to qualifythe idea and the thinking
(23:28):
without all this other noise anddistraction around it.
And noise and distraction inthis scenario just being video,
like just being what somebodylooks like, which is terrible,
like we don't want to do that,like I said, and ideally you
wouldn't, but I think it doeshappen subconsciously.
Alban (23:42):
Yeah, I was pretty surprised once when I saw a
video of Nina Totenberg.
She's like the Supreme courtcorrespondence for NPR and she's
been covering the Supreme courtfor years and so I think if
you'd asked me how old is she, Iwould have probably said she's
got to be at least in hersixties.
But I really had not everthought of her age.
And then I saw a video andshe's in her eighties.
Oh, wow but that had neverclicked for me, because all I'd
(24:05):
ever listened to was she has agreat voice and she knows a ton
about the Supreme Court, andthat was like my only experience
.
And I did wonder if I'd seenvideo from the beginning of
having listened to her for yearsand kind of put her in a box of
oh, she's like my grandmother'sage almost, and she's similar
to my grandmother.
(24:26):
Then would I have likeapproached the ideas differently
?
And I think it's anuncomfortable question, because
when I'm surprised that peoplelook different than I imagined,
that this is, I guess, rude topodcasters, but people are
always more attractive in mymind.
I was thinking the same thingand I think this it's because
when people are on TV, we selectpretty heavily for beautiful
(24:49):
people, like even normal rolesin TV.
You think like they're thenormal person in the TV show and
yet if you knew them in reallife, like they're pretty
attractive.
That's just like the way TVworks.
It's even the way like YouTubeworks and I think there's a
pretty heavy bias towards peoplewho are attractive, you think
are smarter, and I think thatpodcasting I noticed that must
(25:13):
be true for me, because ithappens the opposite way, that I
hear people and I go, wow, theysound smart, they must be
beautiful, they.
And then you see them andyou're like, whoa, this guy is
wearing like some wild outfit.
I can't deal with watching thisvideo but I'm like, oh, but I'm
going back to the podcast andit's great.
Jordan (25:33):
Yeah, I was.
It's so funny you brought thatup, because I don't know like
sometimes podcasters sound verylike hot with their voices, like
they just have hot voices, youknow what I mean, and I'm like
they're probably like super cute.
And then I see them and I'malways surprised if the voice
matches the face, cause usuallyit does not.
Alban (25:50):
But another reason why we don't do video podcasting Kevin
, are there any podcasters youlisten to that you think are hot
?
Kevin (25:57):
I don't think I process it in the same way, but it might
be a good explanation of why wedon't do live events, like we
don't want to disappoint ourfans.
That's true, the few that wehave.
Alban (26:09):
We had somebody once come to the booth and they met us in
person.
They're like all right, sowho's Kevin, who's Alban?
It was like that's verysurprising to me that it wasn't
obvious off the bat.
But why would it be obvious?
Kevin (26:22):
Right, but then as a joke , you said something kind of
grumpy.
You're like well, let me justtell you, I don't really like
anything about you know videos.
And then she was like oh you'reKevin.
You totally fooled her.
Jordan (26:38):
Okay, let's get into our sound off segment.
So first off, we have a fanmail message from wits and
weights.
Hey guys, long time listenerand host of wits and weights on
buzzsprout, of course love theeffort behind the no sugar
challenge.
That said, I tend to cringe alittle when restrictive dieting
is promoted, especially when itdismisses tools like artificial
sweeteners, which can actuallyhelp people manage calorie
(27:00):
intake.
On On our show, we focus onflexible dieting and sustainable
habits that don't villainizeany specific foods, including
sugar.
Well, my initial thought whenreading this is that I don't
think we were promoting it atall, because clearly I couldn't
stick to any sort of sugar diet.
Kevin (27:18):
So defensive Jordan, you were clearly promoting this.
Jordan (27:21):
I don't think I was.
I think I was saying it wasn'tpossible.
Alban (27:24):
It's funny because to me, every diet has been so much
more effective if it'scompletely restrictive.
I must have some likelegalistic streak in me that
when I'm like absolutely nochips, then the chip cravings go
away.
But as soon as I'm like I don'tvilify any food, I have a
little bit, I go off the rails,or at least it's just.
(27:45):
It's much easier when I'm likeI don't drink.
It's so much easier.
Jordan (27:49):
It's like when you did that thing where it was just
like no drinking, like you'redoing whatever diet and then
you're exercising twice a dayOne of them must be outside and
then you have to read anonfiction book every night.
Alban (27:59):
I'm just like wow, so much easier than if you were
like eat 40% less chips.
I'd be like, oh, that's goingto be a lot harder.
But I know I may not be typical, because my wife is much more
similar to what Wits and Weightsis talking about, where she can
do anything in moderation andas soon as there's like a rule
(28:21):
in place, she's like oh, now Iwant to break the rule.
Kevin (28:29):
I agree I don't like restrictive dieting and I'm in
the camp of it.
It's never worked well for meeither.
I will say this, though mydaughter has this trick that
she's been doing that I reallyfind fun, and that is anytime
somebody asks her if she wantssomething, she says no, thanks,
I'm full.
Like regardless of if she'sfull or not, she says that first
to like take their offering heror pushing something, and so
she's like I'm gonna eat whenI'm hungry or if I want
(28:49):
something, I'm gonna evaluatethat.
But if I'm not even thinkingabout food and then someone's
like oh, I'm going to get a bagof chips, do you want some?
No, comes out immediately andshe's like I'm going to make my
food choices, I'm not going tohave other people put food
choices on me, and I'm like thatwas pretty clever.
I don't know where she got itfrom, but she was just home for
the weekend, for Easter weekend,and anytime somebody said
something like oh, do you wantdessert or do you want?
(29:11):
I'm grabbing this, do you wantsome?
Alban (29:23):
No thanks, I'm full.
She's like I wasn the familyhistories podcast.
I was air punching duringAlban's video podcast monologue
rant.
Loved it Nice.
I got to say some of these aremy favorite messages.
I don't know why the peoplegetting excited if I rant.
Yeah, now I'm going to be moreprone to ranting in the future.
Kevin (29:37):
I like the air punching I used to.
You know I'm a little oldschool.
I would call.
Would call that uh, who is?
It was at arsenio hall.
He used to do the.
Uh, the dog pound the.
Jordan (29:46):
Remember that I was picturing the breakfast club
like n scene, you know thebeauty of podcasting.
Kevin (29:55):
we all can create our own visuals.
Dave jackson from schoolpodcasting wrote in and said I
added the funding info, but Idon't see it in pocket casts.
I refreshed is this a featurethat is here or a feature that
is coming?
Okay, dave, I had this problemtoo.
It is a feature that is here.
I looked for it in podcast.
I couldn't find it.
So then I went like to the appstore, like trying to force an
(30:15):
update, and I noticed an updatewas available.
So then I hit the update,whatever button, and then I went
back into Pocket Cast and Istill wasn't seeing it.
So then of course, I go to mypodcasting expert, jordan, and I
said, jordan, I can't find thisthing, have you seen it?
And she sent me a screenshot.
So I knew it was theresomething I was doing wrong.
So what I had to do was forcequit the app on my phone and
then I relaunched it and then Isaw it.
Jordan (30:46):
So if like quit that app in a while, it might not pop in
until you do that, well, theyhave that like lovely minimalist
interface going on.
So you have to like actuallyclick the title of the podcast
and then the options will showup, which I didn't know because
I'm not familiar with PocketCast.
It's not my daily driver.
You guys probably knew that.
Kevin (30:56):
Yeah, it's not as front and center as I would like it to
be, but I'm not going tocriticize anybody who's making
any positive moves.
So great job.
Pocket Cast.
If you want to make it moreapparent in the future, I would
love that as well.
But no criticism, all love.
Thank you for putting it inthere.
Jordan (31:12):
Our last question for our sound off was what feature
would you like to have in yourpodcast listening app?
First up, we had someone fromMetacast reach out and said you
want bookmarking of transcriptsand podcast apps.
We've got it in Metacastapp.
You just swipe the segment andit saves the bookmark.
Check it out.
Very cool.
Alban (31:30):
So did all three of us download Metacast, or just Kevin
and I?
Yeah, I have it.
Jordan (31:34):
I got it.
Alban (31:35):
I was able to bookmark stuff.
It was good.
I listened to some podcasts andwas able to do it, but
unfortunately only the firstfive minutes of the transcript
were available.
So that's the.
The paywall or Metacast app is,if you want to be able to see
the full transcript, that youhave to upgrade.
So it's good, but you wouldneed to pay for the full thing.
Kevin (31:59):
Yeah, and let me, let let me just say I checked out a
couple of different podcasts.
One that I know does not havetranscripts provided by the
podcaster, so the app iscreating the transcript on the
fly, which I like.
That, if the podcaster is notdoing, I love that the app is
doing it.
And to put those behind apaywall, no problem with that.
I get that.
(32:19):
I don't like the fact that,like for when we looked up
Buzzcast on there, we providefull transcripts through our RSS
feeds and only the first fiveminutes are available in the app
and you still have to pay forthe upgrade to see the full
transcript.
I don't love that.
Jordan (32:34):
Yeah.
Kevin (32:35):
I mean, I feel like us, as the creators, are creating a
transcript, we're editing it,we're making sure the names are
correct.
Like you know, most automatedtranscriptions get Alban's name
wrong they call them Alban andstuff like that so we make those
adjustments, we publish it.
I would like the Metacast appto just display what we're
publishing.
We're putting it out for free.
I don't like that.
You're taking our stuff andputting it behind your paywall.
(32:56):
But that's just my opinion.
The rest of the functionality Ireally love and I think that
there's probably some othergreat opportunities to paywall
some of that functionality.
That's not paywalling thecontent from the creators
specifically.
Yeah, so not to be supercritical.
Thanks for listening to theshow, thanks for writing in, but
I would like to see that change.
Alban (33:15):
Chris from Podtastic Audio reached out with a app
request.
He said I don't know if manyapps have this feature, but
could we create an about sectionof the show with photos and
bios?
Look more like a website thanjust some text.
There's been some work in thisspace.
I know that some of thepodcasting 2.0 stuff has talked
about having photos of the hosts, but after our talk about the
(33:38):
compassion of audio andapparently like extreme
attractiveness bias that we allseem to have, I'm of the opinion
maybe we need to keep thissection out.
I don't really know if I wantpeople to go and see all these
photos of Kevin and I.
Kevin (33:53):
Yeah, but I do like the idea of being able to bring more
of the podcast website into theapps.
There's a lot of stuff, like onthe websites that we provide
for all of Buzzsprout customers.
There's a lot of things you cando in there, from contributions
to, if they providesubscription content to a little
bit more about the show.
Other like we have this tagthat we call the pod roll tag,
(34:15):
so you could bring in othershows that this podcast
recommends.
So there's a lot more contentthat could be brought into
podcasting apps.
It might be nice if the appsjust did something as simple as
there is a link to a podcastwebsite in every rss feed, if
you could just tap that and makesure they had a nice mobile
browsing experience within theapp.
That could be a simple way toexecute on it.
(34:35):
But I do like the idea.
I think there's some good stuffthere.
Jordan (34:38):
yeah, I was gonna say we have the person tag that's
usually associated with the hostphoto and you can have a bio
and all that stuff.
So it's really just a matter ofthe podcast apps adopting that
and implementing it.
Apple podcast has somethingvery similar.
When you go to a podcast, youcan scroll down and they do have
the photos of the host thereand if you click the photo it'll
(35:01):
actually show the podcastepisodes that they are on.
Guests are on, things like that.
So that's nice, but yeah, itwould be nice if it was a little
bit more widely adopted.
Kevin (35:11):
Yeah, all right.
Damien the DM wrote in and saidI use podcast addict and one
thing I'd love to see is anative way to take a podcast,
clip, a section, and generate anmp3 that I can send to people,
share on social media or use forcreating audiograms.
I love this, and there are acouple of podcasting apps that
I'm aware of that do this reallywell.
One, but if you're a podcastaddict, I'm assuming you're an
(35:33):
Android user.
I don't know any offhand.
Oh, pocket Cast is available onAndroid, and Pocket Cast has a
great clip sharing feature, andthe other one I was going to
mention is Overcast, who sort ofkind of pioneered this in the
podcast app space, but they'reiOS only, so you might check out
Pocket Cast.
Alban (35:50):
I really enjoy those because you can create a little
clip and it's a video clip thatjust shows, like, the progress
going across, but it's got theartwork, it's got the episode
title, all of that information.
So when you send it to somebodythey can listen to it anywhere,
but then they can also see allthis other information about the
podcast, in case they want togo listen to the whole thing.
Kevin (36:09):
Yeah, a little nuance.
It's not that these apps don'tgenerate MP3s, so maybe not
super easy to use as anaudiogram, but they are movie
files like Albanston.
Jordan (36:18):
Yeah, what I've been doing lately, whenever I want to
share a clip, is I don't knowif Android has this they
probably do but iOS, they justhave a built in screen recording
tool.
Kevin (36:27):
Yes, that's on Android.
Jordan (36:28):
I'll line it up and I'll do the screen recording and
then I have to go into my photosand like crop it so you don't
see how low my battery is, Causeit's really embarrassing how
low it is all the time.
So I'm I'm in the camp of that.
Would be cool to have a nativeway to have like a little screen
grab.
Kevin (36:43):
Yeah, Isn't that funny.
Why is?
Why is low battery anembarrassing thing?
Alban (36:46):
Because people call it out.
I don't know, but also crackedscreen, oh yeah.
I always if someone's got like,it's not like a big crack, it's
mostly like oh, I'm going towait to upgrade it, but it's
like the small cracks.
I'm like what's going on?
You're dropping this phone alot, but you don't get a case.
What's going?
Kevin (37:01):
on here.
Yeah, I get all the littlechips around the edges.
Feel like it's just like ametaphor for your life, like
everything's just kind ofchipped and rolling around.
Jordan (37:11):
I once accidentally dropped my iPhone off of a patio
and it fell on the concrete andof course, the screen shattered
but it was still functionalbecause iPhones are amazing and
I took packing tape and put itover the top and I kept that
phone for like another ninemonths or something like that
and my boss at the time hefinally bought me a new phone
(37:32):
because I was embarrassing himat work meetings.
Like I just looked insane withthis like cracked screen with
tape on it.
Alban (37:40):
I did have a friend once who broke her phone and then was
like I'm going to show you.
And then said I'm going to takea screenshot to show you how it
broke.
Like that's not going to work.
It's on a photo of the screen.
Jordan (37:56):
All right.
So Steph Geopats podcast.
I want to be able to order mydownloaded episodes.
Can't do that in Podcast Addict.
Do any apps do this?
Yeah, Apple podcast does this.
They have a queue.
Spotify also has a queue whereyou can like rearrange the
episodes that you want to playnext.
Do you guys know of any otherones that you can do this?
Kevin (38:16):
Yeah, pocket cast has a I think they call it now, like up
next, I think is what they callit, and you can drag anything
up and down and around in there.
Alban (38:24):
Yeah, it's pretty much just setting up the queue so
that your episodes you want tolisten to next are up there and
then when that finishes, it goesinto the next one.
D Sparkling, life Coach,reached out, said I'm with
Jordan and Albert.
I'd love to see an option forsocial like commenting and
liking and bookmarking episodes,similar to what YouTube and
GoodPods have.
My favorite app is ApplePodcasts, but I've been
(38:45):
listening more on GoodPods forthat option.
Yeah, I mean D, I agree withyou, agreeing with us.
It would be nice to have oneplace, you know, where you could
just drop comments and chatwith people kind of
asynchronously about an episode.
That is one of the things thatI really love about YouTube is,
you know you can go onto a videothat's five years old and it's
(39:05):
got all of the you know, theseinteresting comments and people
sharing things, and so you canlearn more about whatever the
topic is about.
Jordan (39:13):
I actually heard from Megan, who does our Buzzsprout
Weekly podcast and she does theBuzzsprout newsletter.
She had pulled a story thatDeezer has implemented an
algorithm where listeners caneither like or downvote podcast
episodes and it's sort of like aReddit style recommendation
(39:36):
algorithm that they have, butit's personal to that podcast
listener and I really like that.
I would love that so much morethan having like rating and
reviewing systems, like if wecould have that and more podcast
apps where I could just saylike, yeah, I like this or no, I
didn't really enjoy this andthey go great.
We'll quit serving up more ofthis stuff to you.
Kevin (39:56):
Yeah, as far as what they're recommending.
Jordan (39:58):
Yeah.
Kevin (39:59):
Yeah, I do like that.
That's reminiscent of earlyNetflix work.
Yes, you remember when you usedto have to log into Netflix.
You'd watch something andthey'd ask you to give it a
thumbs up or thumbs down.
Then they moved to like a starrating.
But it was all for the benefitof them trying to get an
understanding of the type ofmovies and TV shows you'd like,
so they could suggest otherthings that you might also like.
Jordan (40:22):
And then you start figuring out like the weird
niches that you're into, likecerebral, like clown stuff, I
don't know, know like it wasalways they always have really
weird categories, cerebral cruckat some point.
Kevin (40:35):
I'm imagining they got sophisticated enough where
they're like.
We don't have to ask themanymore.
We can just tell by how much ofthe stuff that they're watching
that we can figure out what youlike and don't like.
They're probably still tryingto figure me out, since I watch
all my movies at 2X no you don't?
Jordan (40:49):
Yes, he does, please don't.
Kevin (40:51):
Yes, he does.
Yeah, but that's good.
But what's more exciting to meabout that is Deezer is alive.
That's fantastic.
I thought Deezer got shut downat one point.
I hadn't heard anything aboutthem in a long time.
All right, well, good for them.
Deezer should also check outthe you know the pod roll tag
that you could find out if I'mlistening to a show, that
(41:12):
podcaster may be recommendingother shows.
That might have some influenceon your algorithm as well.
Yeah.
Alban (41:15):
So for sound off next week I was in the buzzsprout
Reddit group, where now we're upto, I think, 900 people in the
group, so we'd love for peopleto come and join us.
But I was in there and chattingwith somebody and they're
talking about all these growthtips that they've done.
They're like, oh, we've triedeverything that's like off the
wall.
And they named all these kindof random ideas.
(41:37):
But one of them was they madeany music that they made for the
episode they put on likeSoundCloud and then link back to
the podcast.
And then they made Pinterestposts about the podcast and they
were sharing all these kind oflike off the wall ideas.
And they said and now we cansee a third of our new listeners
come from all these weirdbacklinks that we created over
(41:59):
the years.
Jordan (42:01):
Oh, interesting.
Alban (42:02):
And so my question for you is like what's the strangest
podcast growth tip that you'vetried that's worked?
I'd love to hear you know wecame up with unique podcast
growth tips a few months ago forpeople but I'd like to hear
from our listeners Are there anythat you've tried that are
unique, that we maybe haven'theard of?
Jordan (42:21):
Yeah, let's get into the weird stuff.
Man, let's go.
Alban (42:26):
I'd think weird, as in like very few people are trying
this, and if it's working, thenwe want to get it out there, so
everybody knows.
Oh yeah, I wouldn't havethought you would get any
listeners by taking the musicyou made for your show and
putting it on SoundCloud, butapparently somebody did make
that work.
Jordan (42:42):
All right.
So to have your responsefeatured on our next episode, go
ahead and tap the Texas Showlink in our show notes.
That's the easiest way for meto grab all those.
So when you send us messagesvia email, DMs, Twitter, it's a
little bit harder for me toremember and I might miss them
on the next episode.
So be sure to tap that Texasshow link.
Thank you all for listening andkeep podcasting.
Kevin (43:09):
Did you guys notice a new feature in Buzzsprout?
No, I did not.
What did we launch?
There is a hidden.
It's pretty hidden.
Jordan (43:21):
Okay.
Kevin (43:21):
But Buzzsprout has been a longtime supporter of
transcripts.
You both know that we've beendoing a lot of work to be able
to generate high qualitytranscripts ourselves without
using a third party.
The bar is pretty high for usbecause we've been using some
really great third party tools,so it's not like we can just
roll out kind of averagetranscripts.
We need to roll out goodtranscripts if we're going to
(43:42):
replace any offerings that wehave currently.
And that work is now beenpublished, and the really nice
thing about it is that, sincewe're it's brand new and we're
testing it out right now, anypodcast episode that's uploaded
to Buzzsprout you can create atranscript for free using the
new Buzzsprout transcripts tool.
Okay, how does this work?
(44:03):
Okay, so any episode you upload, if you don't have, if you have
co-host turned on, youautomatically get a transcript
for free.
That already happens.
You can edit it, all the thingsyou'd expect.
If you don't have co-host, thenyou can click into your episode
and on the right hand sidethere's a little section that
says do you know you have atranscript for this episode or
do you want to create one?
Add a transcript here.
You tap into that and thenyou're brought to a page which
(44:33):
gives you different options.
One like if you already have awritten transcript, you want to
upload that or paste that in.
You can just do that If youdon't have a transcript.
There's some options below thatto create a transcript.
And now there's a new optionthere and it's basically let
Buzzsprout create a transcriptfor you for free for a limited
time, and we're just calling itBuzzsprout transcripts.
It's in in beta, but it is openand available to anybody who's
on any paid plan withinbuzzsprout very cool.
(44:53):
So I think we're probably gonnalet them roll for free for, you
know, four to six weeks,roughly like that's a work cycle
in our plate and like how werun things.
We're gonna let it roll for alittle while while people give
us some feedback on the qualityof the transcripts they're
getting and the editingexperience.
After that we'll probably rollit into like an add-on package,
like we do with magic, masteringand co-host and everything else
(45:15):
.
These transcripts are not freefor us to create, so there's
some cost involved.
So we need to make sure we'recovering our bases there.
But I'm really excited because,uh, we do it.
We did it for a couple reasons.
One, we believe in the power oftranscripts for helping all the
accessibility benefits thatcome along with that opening the
podcast listening experience tomore and more people,
(45:35):
regardless of whateverconditions they may have that
may limit their ability to hearclearly so you can always read
along.
It also helps with somediscoverability, so more and
more podcast apps are pulling intranscripts and then you could
search through episodes, like wejust talked about in our
SoundOff segment today.
More apps are doing greatthings, like Metacast being able
to swipe and create notes fromtranscripts.
(45:56):
More apps are just supportingtranscripts in general.
Like we talked about this year,apple Podcast Apps has a really
great transcript integrationfeature.
Pocket Cast is adding it.
We'll probably see more andmore of that coming to more and
more podcast apps.
So I just feel like 2025 andbeyond is just going to be like
(46:16):
transcripts are just going tobecome table stakes for
podcasting.
If you publish a podcast, it'sgoing to sort of be expected
that there's a transcriptavailable with it, and so we
decided to make the biginvestment to make sure that
everybody who hosts onBuzzsprout has a really easy way
to get high quality transcripts.
Alban (46:29):
I really love it because I mostly am not reading podcasts
, Though sometimes I'll listento a podcast and later on go
back and read and kind of pullnotes.
But lately I found myself muchmore often pulling up old
Buzzcast episodes and I'm like Ithink we talked about this.
I want to remember what wecovered and what we didn't and
you could just go back andsearch.
It's so nice to be able tosearch old episodes.
(46:51):
Kevin sent an article, I don'tknow, maybe a week ago, and
you're like, oh, this isinteresting.
And I was like, yeah, I thinkwe talked about it on Buzzcast.
And I went back and I was like,oh, we kind of talked about it,
but it was a little bitdifferent than I'd remembered.
But I wasn't going to gothrough the process of listening
(47:12):
to hours of content trying tofind that bit again.
But it was super easy whenthere's a couple keywords and
you just start searching and yougo, okay, yeah, it's not there.
Smartless (47:17):
Yeah, yeah.
Kevin (47:18):
There's.
There's some really fun thingsyou can do when the majority or
all of your podcast episodeshave transcripts associated with
them.
With AI tools that areavailable today, you can train
your AI.
So, for example, I've got achat GPT subscription and I and
it's now it has memory so youcan teach it things and so you
can say this is my podcast,here's the RSS feed and you can
(47:39):
see at line whatever.
73, there is a link to atranscript file.
There is a pattern there.
Can you see the pattern betweenthis episode and all the other
episodes?
Yes, so now you know how topull down transcripts.
Can you please pull down thetranscripts from my last 10
episodes and tell me like giveme ideas for what a good next
episode would be, and like youcan start interacting with AI
(48:00):
agents in this way.
Does that work?
It does work.
Yeah, I've been doing a lot ofexperimenting with that, but I
think they're going to getbetter at being able to discover
transcripts on their own, butright now, you have to teach it
the pattern of how to find yourtranscript and then, once it
finds that pattern, then it canfollow that pattern and it can
pull in transcriptsautomatically.
It can read them, parse them,get that knowledge and then you
can ask it questions about yourstuff.
Jordan (48:22):
That would have been so nice to have when we had our
hundredth episode.
Oh yeah, and I pulled thoseclips that were like the best of
moments of buzzcast in the pasthundred episodes that took so
much time for me to go through,find it, figure out what
timestamp it was on, and then,like, go and listen through all
these things and be like, ohyeah, that was a good moment or
(48:44):
this was really compelling orfunny and I that would have
saved me hours probably.
Kevin (48:49):
Yeah, Do you guys remember a couple of weeks ago
when I was in the company chat,I was saying you know, like I'm
teaching chat GPT how to dothings, and I said I taught it
how to find the transcript for abuzzcast episode and I said I
was wondering if it knew, sinceI taught it from basically my
instance of chat GPT, if yourinstance would then figure it
out.
I remember you asking aboutthis yes.
Yeah, instance of ChatGPT, ifyour instance would then figure
(49:13):
it out.
I remember you asking aboutthis, yes, yeah, and so I think
like one of our programmerschimed in and said I asked
ChatGPT to find a Buzzsprouttranscript and it could not find
it.
So my experiment was failing.
It wasn't going outside of mybox, but I can still go into my
ChatGPT and say, hey, can youfind the latest transcript for
the latest Buzzcast episode, andthen I can ask it questions
about that, and it can do that.
I don't have to retrain itevery time.
That's pretty impressive, yeah.
So anyway, enough with the AIstuff.
But yeah, if you don't dotranscripts, please hop in there
(49:34):
.
We would love as many people aspossible to try out the new
Buzzsprout transcripts featureand edit your transcript.
Once it's processed and youhave one, jump into the editor,
see what you think about that.
You can assign speakers, youcan correct any typos.
You don't have to do extensivelike get every single word
perfect, but just polish up theglaring errors and then publish
it.
They appear on your Buzzsproutwebsite.
(49:59):
And, as I mentioned before, areappearing in more and more
podcast apps.
So it's a good thing, we'reexcited to bring it to you, but
it's still early days, so weneed testers and feedback and
all that stuff.
Do you guys want to hear about my Uber ride this morning?
Got in the car, very nicegentleman driving me home from
the auto repair shop.
He was listening to whatsounded like talk radio, but I
noticed it was coming throughApple CarPlay.
So I of course asked what areyou listening to?
And it was a sports programthat I'd never heard of before.
And I said, oh, is that apodcast?
And he said no, I don't knowanything about podcasts.
(00:21):
And I said, oh well, what areyou listening on?
And he said TikTok live.
What TikTok live every morning?
And I said, oh, is this like aregular show that you listen to
on TikTok live?
Yeah, and he said, yeah, everymorning these guys come on and
they do their show live onTikTok.
So I just go on TikTok, Ifollow them.
It pops up and I just listen toit as I drive around.
(00:43):
And so we talked a little bitabout what podcasts are and that
he doesn't have to tune in atthe same time every day.
He could listen whenever hewants.
And again, I can't remember thename of the show, but I asked
him if these guys had a podcast.
So we loaded up Apple Podcastson his phone.
We searched for them.
We found their show and so nowhe can listen any time of the
day and he was very thankful,wow.
(01:09):
So I was thinking like maybe alot of people are listening to
things on YouTube and TikTok andstuff, but podcasts might be a
better solution for them.
That's what it got me thinking,at least for this gentleman.
He seemed appreciative.
He might've just been beingpolite, but he was like no, this
is great.
So like now, if I'm driving inthe afternoons and my morning
show is not on, I can stilllisten to the morning show.
I was like, yeah, that'sexactly, it's like on demand.
Jordan (01:28):
He's like this is great.
This is exactly what a podcastis.
Kevin (01:31):
So I changed a life for the better today with podcasting
.
Alban (01:33):
Wow, that's great.
Kevin Finn podcast evangelistyeah.
Jordan (01:37):
You know, that reminds me of that story that I saw I
think it was a couple of weeksago, maybe last week, and it was
those tween boys that have thatpodcast that they're basically
streaming on like TikTok andYouTube.
It's like a bunch of like foodreviewers, but they have no
experience in like tasting foods, so they talk about like school
lunches and stuff, and I wasreally surprised to see that
(01:58):
they didn't have their show onpodcast apps.
It's literally just likeYouTube and Twitter, and so I
wonder if there's just someweird sub-genre of people who
are podcasting by streaming onthese platforms.
But I didn't realize that theycould do that on TikTok.
Kevin (02:13):
Yeah, I didn't know that either.
What also was interesting isthe conversation took a weird
twist when I said do they haveany ads?
Do they do any ads in theirshow?
And he said, no, they just getpaid by TikTok.
And so I was like, well, whywould TikTok pay them?
And he's like, because TikTokhas a lot of money.
Alban (02:32):
So they just no somewhere .
Tiktok has to be making money.
A lot of the live streams Iremember for a while were making
money because people would likedonate to the live stream.
Kevin (02:40):
He did say that.
He said there is a way that youcan just give them money.
He said, like you can give themcoins or hats.
I was like hats, what do youmean?
You give them a hat.
He's like I don't know, there'sa little hat button.
I can click it and then the hatgoes on their head if you're
watching it.
But it costs you money to put ahat on their head.
Alban (03:11):
And he's like I think they get the hat button and then
that solved it all.
The value for value stuff.
No, it wasn't that, it wasn'tpatreon, it wasn't exclusive
content.
Kevin (03:15):
It was, and I feel like we were close a couple months
ago when I switched my profileimage to the cowboy hat image.
Yeah, like we were justteetering around the idea we
just missed, missed it.
But like how, as a listener tothis show, how much would you
pay to be able to put hats on us?
Alban (03:29):
Well, I can tell you someone very famous, kevin, a
podcaster who always wears a hat, is Tim pool, that's right.
Jordan (03:36):
What a segue I?
Kevin (03:37):
saw the news article.
I saw the headline that abuzzsprout podcaster has made it
into the white house press pool.
Jordan (03:43):
Oh boy.
Kevin (03:44):
A former Buzzsprout podcaster, former.
Alban (03:45):
Buzzsprout.
Right yeah, so that's thesecond former Buzzsprout
podcaster who has been in theWhite House, the first being
former President Joe Biden andnow frequent hat wearer Tim.
Kevin (03:57):
Pool Is a beanie.
A hat?
Yeah, I guess it is a hat.
It's a genre of hat, but nobodycalls it a hat?
Jordan (04:01):
Is it a hat or a sock?
Alban (04:05):
Head sock.
Yeah Well, we're still waitingfor our Press Pool briefing
badge.
Kevin (04:11):
Yeah so we talked about that on this show that the White
House opened up a new mediaseat and one of the types of
people that they were lookingfor were podcasters.
They brought in a podcasterlast week.
It was Tim Pool, who is acontroversial figure in the new
media space.
We're not saying anything goodor bad, we're just saying he is
a podcaster and we can also saythat he started I think he
(04:36):
launched his first podcast onBuzzsprout since moved to.
I don't know a differentnetwork.
He moved to Megaphone shortlyafter For ad deals and stuff
like that.
Jordan (04:45):
Yeah.
Kevin (04:45):
So no longer a Buzzsprouter, but got to ask
Caroline Levitt a question.
I think it was not a questionthat has anything to do with
podcasting, so we won't cover it.
But he got in there.
Alban (04:59):
I just want to know what's the best way to start a
podcast.
After that follow-up, what'sthe best way to keep podcasting?
I've got to know like, oh, whata great question, you just got
to go to buzzsproutcom.
Jordan (05:16):
Welcome back to buzzcast podcast about all things
podcasting for the people atbuzzsprout.
So we're going to start offwith an attention grabbing
headline.
People at Buzzsprout.
So we're going to start offwith an attention-grabbing
headline.
Bartlett turned down massive100 million podcast deal.
And that's Stephen Bartlettfrom Diary of CEO, and he
recently disclosed that he hadturned down two pretty big
(05:36):
podcasting deals, one worthabout $100 million and the other
I'm not entirely sure, but I'mguessing it's a lot.
Did you guys get a chance toread this article?
Alban (05:46):
Yeah, I did.
It's interesting to see hisrationale for turning down $100
million First off.
That's just so much money andeven when it's totally against
your principles, it's reallyimpressive to see people turn it
down.
I mean, that's notlife-changing money.
That's like forever never workagain and also your kids and
(06:06):
their grandchildren never workagain.
Money if you want it to be, butvery cool to see him kind of
make this decision and talkabout it publicly.
Do we know where those dealscame from, by the way?
Jordan (06:16):
He did not disclose that .
I'm assuming one of them wasprobably Spotify, because there
was a little bit of a mentionabout how this was during the
time when there were these bigacquisitions, and he did mention
that one of the reasons why heturned down this huge deal was
because they were wanting him tobe platform exclusive, and I
(06:36):
believe that Spotify was one ofthe only platforms that was
doing the platform exclusivedeals.
Alban (06:42):
Yeah, I actually just heard there was a little clip
from the Netflix where Netflixwas doing the platform exclusive
deals.
Yeah, I actually just heardthere was a little clip from the
Netflix where Netflix was doingtheir earnings call and they
asked about podcasting and theirCEO had a response about video
podcasters starting to get moreand more similar to talk shows.
Kevin (06:59):
Yeah.
Alban (06:59):
And so you could see us bringing those kind of talk
shows onto our platform, and soit made me wonder if maybe the
more recent of the deals mightcome from Netflix, because his
diary of CEO is availableeverywhere on podcast listening
apps, but it's predominantly onYouTube, and so I wondered if
maybe they were trying to pullthem on there.
Jordan (07:20):
Another reason why he turned down this deal was
because he said that it would bea 300% increase in ad sales on
his episodes, which isridiculous.
So he would have to go platformexclusive and then have three
times the amount of ads on hispodcast than he wants.
He wouldn't have creativecontrol over the podcast.
(07:43):
Looking at it, it's like yeah,that's a life-changing amount of
money.
And then you look at it andit's like that could also tank
your podcast and he would bebeholden to the platform that
he's on.
Alban (07:54):
So there was this other little bit that he mentioned,
and it's funny.
We're trying to pull apartmultiple deals that we haven't
been able to see.
But $100 million is like youknow, your eyes pop.
And then it's multi-year payouttied to performance targets.
Jordan (08:09):
Yeah.
Alban (08:10):
And then you're like Ooh, and then it's three times the
adverts, ooh, and less creativecontrol.
And then you realize that he'salready making a massive amount
of money with the podcast.
Now, if you have to hit theseperformance targets over a
five-year period, then it'sreally looking like 20 million a
(08:31):
year for five years if youcontinue to grow and you pump
massive amounts of ads into yourshow.
Kevin (08:37):
You know it reminds me of and I don't want to take
anything away from the fact thathe turned down a generational
wealth amount of money, as Albansaid earlier.
I'm not saying that's easy, butI am reminded of.
There's a tech person who Ifollow and they are 100
millionaires.
They have made it way beyondbig.
(08:58):
And he talked one time aboutthe different stages of wealth
that he's been able to gothrough in his life and he was
like there's a really big jump.
That kind of happens for him.
Anyway, his experience betweengoing from being pretty wealthy
at making hundreds of thousandsof dollars a year to being a
multimillionaire he was likethat was pretty life-changing.
(09:18):
I used to live in a nice houseand drive a nice car, but now I
could take multiple vacations ayear, I could have multiple cars
, I could have a bigger house ormultiple houses, and that
happened between, you know, acouple hundred thousand dollars
a year and a couple milliondollars a year, and he said that
was the biggest life changefrom there forward to like
accumulating $50 million and ahundred million dollars.
(09:38):
He's like you know, yeah, I cando all these things.
I could have a private jet, Icould have a helicopter, I could
probably buy an Island or stuff, but those weren't things that
were really desirable for himand he was, like it, just kind
of felt I don't know gluttonous,like too much or whatever.
I don't know that you'd havethat perspective before you got
there.
I certainly don't have thatperspective now, like it would
be hard to turn down a hundredmillion dollars, but at least
(09:59):
for somebody who'd been throughit it was interesting to hear
them talk about it from thatperspective.
Anyway, it makes me think, likeStephen Bartlett, the entire
CEO, it sounds like he's alreadymade the huge life-changing
thing where he has more moneythan he will ever possibly need
and anything that he wants to door anything that you can get
with money.
He can probably already get thenext level jump.
Maybe he had enough foresightto see that what he'd be giving
(10:22):
up in the quality of life andthe joy and the creative
expression and the control of ashow like that's not worth it
just to be able to I don't knowhave a private jet that you can
call on.
Alban (10:31):
It is important to remember.
You know you can turn thingsinto money sometimes, but is
that what you want to do?
Do you want to spend day in,day out working for whatever
company he'd be working for anddoing shows that they want to do
and pumping ads in and notbeing able to control it, when
maybe you do get four or fivetimes as much money as you would
have otherwise?
(10:51):
But the lifestyle may notchange drastically in a positive
way, and if you can see yourwork life actually getting a bit
more annoying now you're inmeetings about whether or not
you're allowed to interviewsomebody you want to interview,
or okay, people are mad thatthere's all these weird ads in
my show now and I can't make thedecision.
That could be much more of acost than the additional money
(11:14):
might've been worth.
Jordan (11:16):
His vision for his podcast was really to diversify
where his income streams arecoming from, and he saw way more
value in that than just gettingthis huge brand deal.
It seems like it's up front,but it's not up front.
So he talked about equity dealswhere he would get shares in a
company in exchange for doingads or being sponsored by them.
(11:38):
He talked about these long-termpartnerships where you actually
integrate the brand into thepodcast and so it seems a little
bit more like natural and fluidin your.
Your audience can get familiarwith that brand and there's just
all these different things with, like, merch or listener
subscriptions.
So there's all these differentways that you can make money,
and he chose to just bet on thatas opposed to getting this like
(12:01):
upfront cash and then and thenmaybe it'll work out.
Kevin (12:04):
Right, you talked on equity deals and I think that
Tim Ferriss made a lot of hisworth out of doing equity deals
and just being able to createrelationships.
So he was an author and apodcaster for many years and
through the relationships on hispodcast he got opportunities to
invest in companies at somevery early stages.
I think he also was introducedto some new products and
(12:27):
companies and would like themhimself and said listen, I want
to be like an ambassador forthis product, so don't pay me to
do the ad.
I'm going to talk about it whenit feels natural.
I'm going to help build it, butin exchange for whatever a
small percent of equity in thecompany 2% or 5% or something
like that and that has workedout for him really well.
Jordan (12:50):
He's crushing the wealth side of life anyway, yeah, and
I think that's something thatseeing these huge, massive deals
and thinking like podcasterscan really take away from this
how important it is to be loyalto your listeners and be
intentional with your podcastand long-term, that will build
up the success of your podcastway more than selling out for
these like programmatic ads thatare just going to alienate
(13:11):
listeners.
It's going to annoy them, theymight drop off, and so I think
it's really important to keepthat in mind, that, no matter
how big your podcast is, it'sjust important to be thinking
about your listeners first andforemost.
Alban (13:22):
The thing I took away from it was you need to remember
and keep in mind am I doing thething that I want to do, even
if there's a big bunch of moneycoming with the thing you don't
want to do, then pay attention.
Well, if it's not the thing, Iwant, to be spending the next
five years of my life who knowswhere Steven will be in five
years?
And if it's not what he wantsto do, then awesome, great
(13:44):
decision.
Yeah, I don't want to do it.
And the other piece was man,this deal sounds insane when
it's 100 million, but thenyou're like oh, it's over five
years, there's earnouts, there'sactually a bunch of ads,
there's platform exclusivity,and then you add all that up and
you're like okay, it startsfeeling like the present day
value of this deal is way, waysmaller and the lost revenue
(14:07):
from the show being exclusiveand him not getting all the ads
anymore, probably it wasn't asbig of a turndown, I guess, as
we imagine.
Jordan (14:15):
Yeah, I think that's so true because it is.
It's just this headline whereit's like turn down $100 million
and you're like whoa, what,that's crazy.
And then you look at it andyou're like actually, yeah, that
was the right choice.
Kevin (14:27):
So the takeaway here would be when those $100 million
offers start flowing in foryour podcast show.
Jordan (14:33):
Which it will.
Kevin (14:34):
Don't sign too fast.
Think it through, read all thedetails, and maybe there's a
lesson that Stephen Bartlett hasto share with you.
Jordan (14:51):
All right.
Alban (14:52):
So I know that a couple episodes ago we promised, we
swore that we would not rantabout video podcasting again,
but I found a loophole.
What's our loophole, Jordan?
Jordan (14:59):
Our loophole is our wonderful listeners, who sent us
clips of celebrity podcaststalking about video podcasting,
and also some friends in theindustry talking about it too.
So we're going to discuss thatand it's it's not us, it's them.
Kevin (15:15):
All right.
Jordan (15:16):
I'm going to play a couple of clips here.
So the first was sent to usfrom David John Clark of late
bloomer Actor.
So there's an episode of SmartList from the month of April and
they had Maria Shriver on.
Kevin (15:29):
The Maria Shriver.
Jordan (15:31):
The beautiful Maria Shriver.
Smartless (15:35):
We can talk to you about anything though, is what I
love about you you can tackleany issue.
Yes, that's why I can't wait totalk about 10,000 things.
But you said to me I said whatI'm so excited about is the only
show I've ever gone on where Ihaven't prepared at all, because
you told me not to prepare atall.
Correct so I didn't brush myhair.
I had no makeup.
Yeah, because we're not AnythingRight?
We're not filming this, it'sjust audio, it's a podcast.
(15:56):
You know, Don't explain to herwhat a podcast is Thank you.
Will.
Thank you.
I mean, my God, this is abridge too far, yeah, really.
Jordan (16:07):
Oh my God, I could listen to Will Arnett talk all
day.
I love his voice, batman, yeah.
Kevin (16:14):
I love it.
Hey, I will play the part ofMaria Shriver today.
This is exactly why I loveaudio podcasting.
I don't have to do my hair,which is like an impossible task
for me.
I don't have to.
It doesn't matter what I'mwearing, I don't even have to
read the outline, I just show upand chime in with stupidity
aplenty, and that's a podcast.
Jordan (16:36):
All right, and so this next clip that we have is from
Remy Roy, host of the DrivenIntrovert.
Let's know that the officeladies also had a rant about
video podcasting when a listenerasked them to make a video
version of the show.
Office Ladies (16:50):
We have discussed many times the idea of adding a
video element of the podcast,and it boils down to this.
I don't want to yeah, I mean,it's a podcast.
Aren't podcasts just bydefinition something you listen
to?
Why do we have to watcheverything?
Why does?
everything have a video.
(17:10):
I like the idea of somethingthat I just listen to and I
think once a camera's there, itchanges how you share.
It's not as intimate.
I feel like I would be aware ofthe camera in some way.
The camera would be like thisextra person in the room that I
would clock in to the camera.
(17:31):
I just like that.
There's not this third thing inthe room, it's just me and you
having a conversation.
Well, listen, we tried it veryearly on.
Back in the Earwolf studios,Josh and Lee came in with two
cameras and they set up lightsfor us and we tried to record
the podcast while we were beingvideotaped.
(17:54):
And it was horrible.
We didn't even put that podcastout, we stopped in the middle
and we were like shut offcameras.
I was so self-conscious, I wasso like I don't know, I didn't
like it.
Also, sometimes I don't want tobrush my hair before we record
and I want to wear my sweatpantsand I want to be in my cozies
(18:16):
and I just don't want to feellike I'm on display.
Oh, I know.
Kevin (18:21):
It's another good clip.
Jordan (18:23):
Okay, so this is two actresses who have built a
career on being in front of acamera and they're saying no,
absolutely not, Turn it off.
We're not doing this.
Kevin (18:34):
Yeah, and I'm picking up on a theme here.
Jordan (18:36):
Yeah, women don't like to get ready.
Kevin (18:38):
Hair and podcasting do not mix.
I feel like maybe this is whyso many video podcasters are
bald men Do we think?
Jordan (18:49):
I think you're onto something.
Alban (18:51):
Is Stephen Bartlett from Diary of a CEO.
Does he have hair?
What's the hair situation?
Jordan (18:56):
We were talking about Tim Pool.
He wears that beanie all thetime.
Alban (19:00):
That's the video podcasting hack.
Is the eventual beanie?
Yeah, all right, stephenBartlett does have hair, but it
is pretty closely cropped, somaybe he doesn't have to do too
much work.
Kevin (19:12):
Yeah, yeah, I'm sorry.
You're making a really goodpoint about these being
professional actresses who are,like I was, assumingly very
comfortable on camera and yetthey still did not like the
camera for their podcast.
Yeah.
Alban (19:23):
I feel that too.
I mean, how many times have youbeen somewhere and you're just
having friends?
You're hanging out with friends, you're having a good time,
you're at a wedding and peopleare dancing and then you realize
somebody's pulled their phoneout and you're like oh,
everything changed as soon asthere's video and it's being
recorded.
Then you're watching yourselfand you're going okay, is this
(19:44):
cool?
What am I doing?
Is it fun?
Are people going to like itwhen they watch it back?
And that running in your headchanges all of the feel, all the
feelings that you have aboutwhatever you're doing.
Yeah, and I feel that withpodcasting, for some reason,
with audio, I don't feel as muchof that self-conscious kind of
checking oh, what are we saying,how are we performing, how do
(20:07):
we show up?
Instead, you're just a littlebit more authentic, and maybe
that's to our detrimentsometimes, but I think often you
just end up being a little bitmore casual.
It's another reason why I likepodcasts more than live audio,
because you can say somethingand go oh, that was kind of dumb
or I didn't.
I don't really agree with that.
I don't know why I said it thatway.
Let me cut it.
(20:28):
And it kind of takes two of theinhibitors of being authentic
and sharing off the cuff.
I'm not being recorded videoand I had the chance to go back
and re-say something if I get itwrong.
Jordan (20:42):
It makes it so you can be much more real.
Yeah, I actually cut that clipa little bit short because it
was a longer clip, but they wenton to talk about how they also
don't like how judgy people arewhen they do video.
They get so sick of peoplemaking comments like when did
her chin start looking like that?
Or getting distracted insteadof like oh, brutal.
Chin reviews, but I mean, youknow how people on the internet
(21:05):
are.
they get like snarky and theyhave comments about everything
they have to like judge howsomeone looks or how someone has
aged, and what that reminded meof so much was that blog that
you actually shared with us,kevin.
The compassion of audio fromHindenburg.
Kevin (21:20):
Yes.
Jordan (21:21):
And in that Nick actually mentioned that.
That's kind of the beautifulthing about audio is we turn off
our judgment for a hot second.
You know what I mean?
There's just something builtinto us that when we see someone
on video we're judging and thatcould be a good judgment or a
bad judgment, but it just itsort of like having those visual
cues of what someone's wearing,how someone looks, kind of
(21:47):
takes us out of it for a second.
We get distracted by the waythat someone like blinks, or the
way that someone is dressing orfidgeting with something while
they're speaking, and in audioyou don't have that.
Kevin (21:55):
Yeah, that's profound.
I don't know that.
I've spent a lot of timethinking about that until you
just raised it, but for sure Iwould agree with if I'm watching
someone, I can see what theylook like.
I don't think it's conscious,but I think subconsciously I'm
probably making assessments ofwhether they are like me or not
based on how they look, based onhow they dress, based on cues I
pick up on just by theirappearance, and then I probably
(22:20):
value or devalue some of thethings that they're saying based
on how similar I perceive themto be to me.
And with audio you don't havethat as much.
You might have a little bit ofthe oh by the voice.
I'm sort of envisioning whatthis person might look like, but
it's definitely not right inyour face.
And so I do find myselfoftentimes listening to audio
(22:42):
and I hope, hope, I feel likethis is true, being more open
minded to ideas that I might nothave myself, or being in a
position where I could beconvinced that you're right even
though initially I didn't lovethe idea of this that you're
expressing this viewpoint andI'm like, oh, I'm really against
that.
I see that different way.
But then, after listening tothem for 20 or 30 minutes I
might come around to at least totheir perspective.
(23:04):
Like I still might not agreewith it, but at least I
understand where you're comingfrom now because I'm really
engaging in the idea more than Iam the person, somebody who
I've perceived to come from atotally different walk of life.
So we're never going to see eyeto eye immediately.
It's like I don't know whatwalk of life you come from, I
don't know your story, so I'mjust hearing your perspective.
I'm just kind of judging youbased on the argument you're
presenting and trying to qualifythe idea and the thinking
(23:28):
without all this other noise anddistraction around it.
And noise and distraction inthis scenario just being video,
like just being what somebodylooks like, which is terrible,
like we don't want to do that,like I said, and ideally you
wouldn't, but I think it doeshappen subconsciously.
Alban (23:42):
Yeah, I was pretty surprised once when I saw a
video of Nina Totenberg.
She's like the Supreme courtcorrespondence for NPR and she's
been covering the Supreme courtfor years and so I think if
you'd asked me how old is she, Iwould have probably said she's
got to be at least in hersixties.
But I really had not everthought of her age.
And then I saw a video andshe's in her eighties.
Oh, wow but that had neverclicked for me, because all I'd
(24:05):
ever listened to was she has agreat voice and she knows a ton
about the Supreme Court, andthat was like my only experience
.
And I did wonder if I'd seenvideo from the beginning of
having listened to her for yearsand kind of put her in a box of
oh, she's like my grandmother'sage almost, and she's similar
to my grandmother.
(24:26):
Then would I have likeapproached the ideas differently
?
And I think it's anuncomfortable question, because
when I'm surprised that peoplelook different than I imagined,
that this is, I guess, rude topodcasters, but people are
always more attractive in mymind.
I was thinking the same thingand I think this it's because
when people are on TV, we selectpretty heavily for beautiful
(24:49):
people, like even normal rolesin TV.
You think like they're thenormal person in the TV show and
yet if you knew them in reallife, like they're pretty
attractive.
That's just like the way TVworks.
It's even the way like YouTubeworks and I think there's a
pretty heavy bias towards peoplewho are attractive, you think
are smarter, and I think thatpodcasting I noticed that must
(25:13):
be true for me, because ithappens the opposite way, that I
hear people and I go, wow, theysound smart, they must be
beautiful, they.
And then you see them andyou're like, whoa, this guy is
wearing like some wild outfit.
I can't deal with watching thisvideo but I'm like, oh, but I'm
going back to the podcast andit's great.
Jordan (25:33):
Yeah, I was.
It's so funny you brought thatup, because I don't know like
sometimes podcasters sound verylike hot with their voices, like
they just have hot voices, youknow what I mean, and I'm like
they're probably like super cute.
And then I see them and I'malways surprised if the voice
matches the face, cause usuallyit does not.
Alban (25:50):
But another reason why we don't do video podcasting Kevin
, are there any podcasters youlisten to that you think are hot
?
Kevin (25:57):
I don't think I process it in the same way, but it might
be a good explanation of why wedon't do live events, like we
don't want to disappoint ourfans.
That's true, the few that wehave.
Alban (26:09):
We had somebody once come to the booth and they met us in
person.
They're like all right, sowho's Kevin, who's Alban?
It was like that's verysurprising to me that it wasn't
obvious off the bat.
But why would it be obvious?
Kevin (26:22):
Right, but then as a joke , you said something kind of
grumpy.
You're like well, let me justtell you, I don't really like
anything about you know videos.
And then she was like oh you'reKevin.
You totally fooled her.
Jordan (26:38):
Okay, let's get into our sound off segment.
So first off, we have a fanmail message from wits and
weights.
Hey guys, long time listenerand host of wits and weights on
buzzsprout, of course love theeffort behind the no sugar
challenge.
That said, I tend to cringe alittle when restrictive dieting
is promoted, especially when itdismisses tools like artificial
sweeteners, which can actuallyhelp people manage calorie
(27:00):
intake.
On On our show, we focus onflexible dieting and sustainable
habits that don't villainizeany specific foods, including
sugar.
Well, my initial thought whenreading this is that I don't
think we were promoting it atall, because clearly I couldn't
stick to any sort of sugar diet.
Kevin (27:18):
So defensive Jordan, you were clearly promoting this.
Jordan (27:21):
I don't think I was.
I think I was saying it wasn'tpossible.
Alban (27:24):
It's funny because to me, every diet has been so much
more effective if it'scompletely restrictive.
I must have some likelegalistic streak in me that
when I'm like absolutely nochips, then the chip cravings go
away.
But as soon as I'm like I don'tvilify any food, I have a
little bit, I go off the rails,or at least it's just.
(27:45):
It's much easier when I'm likeI don't drink.
It's so much easier.
Jordan (27:49):
It's like when you did that thing where it was just
like no drinking, like you'redoing whatever diet and then
you're exercising twice a dayOne of them must be outside and
then you have to read anonfiction book every night.
Alban (27:59):
I'm just like wow, so much easier than if you were
like eat 40% less chips.
I'd be like, oh, that's goingto be a lot harder.
But I know I may not be typical, because my wife is much more
similar to what Wits and Weightsis talking about, where she can
do anything in moderation andas soon as there's like a rule
(28:21):
in place, she's like oh, now Iwant to break the rule.
Kevin (28:29):
I agree I don't like restrictive dieting and I'm in
the camp of it.
It's never worked well for meeither.
I will say this, though mydaughter has this trick that
she's been doing that I reallyfind fun, and that is anytime
somebody asks her if she wantssomething, she says no, thanks,
I'm full.
Like regardless of if she'sfull or not, she says that first
to like take their offering heror pushing something, and so
she's like I'm gonna eat whenI'm hungry or if I want
(28:49):
something, I'm gonna evaluatethat.
But if I'm not even thinkingabout food and then someone's
like oh, I'm going to get a bagof chips, do you want some?
No, comes out immediately andshe's like I'm going to make my
food choices, I'm not going tohave other people put food
choices on me, and I'm like thatwas pretty clever.
I don't know where she got itfrom, but she was just home for
the weekend, for Easter weekend,and anytime somebody said
something like oh, do you wantdessert or do you want?
(29:11):
I'm grabbing this, do you wantsome?
Alban (29:23):
No thanks, I'm full.
She's like I wasn the familyhistories podcast.
I was air punching duringAlban's video podcast monologue
rant.
Loved it Nice.
I got to say some of these aremy favorite messages.
I don't know why the peoplegetting excited if I rant.
Yeah, now I'm going to be moreprone to ranting in the future.
Kevin (29:37):
I like the air punching I used to.
You know I'm a little oldschool.
I would call.
Would call that uh, who is?
It was at arsenio hall.
He used to do the.
Uh, the dog pound the.
Jordan (29:46):
Remember that I was picturing the breakfast club
like n scene, you know thebeauty of podcasting.
Kevin (29:55):
we all can create our own visuals.
Dave jackson from schoolpodcasting wrote in and said I
added the funding info, but Idon't see it in pocket casts.
I refreshed is this a featurethat is here or a feature that
is coming?
Okay, dave, I had this problemtoo.
It is a feature that is here.
I looked for it in podcast.
I couldn't find it.
So then I went like to the appstore, like trying to force an
(30:15):
update, and I noticed an updatewas available.
So then I hit the update,whatever button, and then I went
back into Pocket Cast and Istill wasn't seeing it.
So then of course, I go to mypodcasting expert, jordan, and I
said, jordan, I can't find thisthing, have you seen it?
And she sent me a screenshot.
So I knew it was theresomething I was doing wrong.
So what I had to do was forcequit the app on my phone and
then I relaunched it and then Isaw it.
Jordan (30:46):
So if like quit that app in a while, it might not pop in
until you do that, well, theyhave that like lovely minimalist
interface going on.
So you have to like actuallyclick the title of the podcast
and then the options will showup, which I didn't know because
I'm not familiar with PocketCast.
It's not my daily driver.
You guys probably knew that.
Kevin (30:56):
Yeah, it's not as front and center as I would like it to
be, but I'm not going tocriticize anybody who's making
any positive moves.
So great job.
Pocket Cast.
If you want to make it moreapparent in the future, I would
love that as well.
But no criticism, all love.
Thank you for putting it inthere.
Jordan (31:12):
Our last question for our sound off was what feature
would you like to have in yourpodcast listening app?
First up, we had someone fromMetacast reach out and said you
want bookmarking of transcriptsand podcast apps.
We've got it in Metacastapp.
You just swipe the segment andit saves the bookmark.
Check it out.
Very cool.
Alban (31:30):
So did all three of us download Metacast, or just Kevin
and I?
Yeah, I have it.
Jordan (31:34):
I got it.
Alban (31:35):
I was able to bookmark stuff.
It was good.
I listened to some podcasts andwas able to do it, but
unfortunately only the firstfive minutes of the transcript
were available.
So that's the.
The paywall or Metacast app is,if you want to be able to see
the full transcript, that youhave to upgrade.
So it's good, but you wouldneed to pay for the full thing.
Kevin (31:59):
Yeah, and let me, let let me just say I checked out a
couple of different podcasts.
One that I know does not havetranscripts provided by the
podcaster, so the app iscreating the transcript on the
fly, which I like.
That, if the podcaster is notdoing, I love that the app is
doing it.
And to put those behind apaywall, no problem with that.
I get that.
(32:19):
I don't like the fact that,like for when we looked up
Buzzcast on there, we providefull transcripts through our RSS
feeds and only the first fiveminutes are available in the app
and you still have to pay forthe upgrade to see the full
transcript.
I don't love that.
Jordan (32:34):
Yeah.
Kevin (32:35):
I mean, I feel like us, as the creators, are creating a
transcript, we're editing it,we're making sure the names are
correct.
Like you know, most automatedtranscriptions get Alban's name
wrong they call them Alban andstuff like that so we make those
adjustments, we publish it.
I would like the Metacast appto just display what we're
publishing.
We're putting it out for free.
I don't like that.
You're taking our stuff andputting it behind your paywall.
(32:56):
But that's just my opinion.
The rest of the functionality Ireally love and I think that
there's probably some othergreat opportunities to paywall
some of that functionality.
That's not paywalling thecontent from the creators
specifically.
Yeah, so not to be supercritical.
Thanks for listening to theshow, thanks for writing in, but
I would like to see that change.
Alban (33:15):
Chris from Podtastic Audio reached out with a app
request.
He said I don't know if manyapps have this feature, but
could we create an about sectionof the show with photos and
bios?
Look more like a website thanjust some text.
There's been some work in thisspace.
I know that some of thepodcasting 2.0 stuff has talked
about having photos of the hosts, but after our talk about the
(33:38):
compassion of audio andapparently like extreme
attractiveness bias that we allseem to have, I'm of the opinion
maybe we need to keep thissection out.
I don't really know if I wantpeople to go and see all these
photos of Kevin and I.
Kevin (33:53):
Yeah, but I do like the idea of being able to bring more
of the podcast website into theapps.
There's a lot of stuff, like onthe websites that we provide
for all of Buzzsprout customers.
There's a lot of things you cando in there, from contributions
to, if they providesubscription content to a little
bit more about the show.
Other like we have this tagthat we call the pod roll tag,
(34:15):
so you could bring in othershows that this podcast
recommends.
So there's a lot more contentthat could be brought into
podcasting apps.
It might be nice if the appsjust did something as simple as
there is a link to a podcastwebsite in every rss feed, if
you could just tap that and makesure they had a nice mobile
browsing experience within theapp.
That could be a simple way toexecute on it.
(34:35):
But I do like the idea.
I think there's some good stuffthere.
Jordan (34:38):
yeah, I was gonna say we have the person tag that's
usually associated with the hostphoto and you can have a bio
and all that stuff.
So it's really just a matter ofthe podcast apps adopting that
and implementing it.
Apple podcast has somethingvery similar.
When you go to a podcast, youcan scroll down and they do have
the photos of the host thereand if you click the photo it'll
(35:01):
actually show the podcastepisodes that they are on.
Guests are on, things like that.
So that's nice, but yeah, itwould be nice if it was a little
bit more widely adopted.
Kevin (35:11):
Yeah, all right.
Damien the DM wrote in and saidI use podcast addict and one
thing I'd love to see is anative way to take a podcast,
clip, a section, and generate anmp3 that I can send to people,
share on social media or use forcreating audiograms.
I love this, and there are acouple of podcasting apps that
I'm aware of that do this reallywell.
One, but if you're a podcastaddict, I'm assuming you're an
(35:33):
Android user.
I don't know any offhand.
Oh, pocket Cast is available onAndroid, and Pocket Cast has a
great clip sharing feature, andthe other one I was going to
mention is Overcast, who sort ofkind of pioneered this in the
podcast app space, but they'reiOS only, so you might check out
Pocket Cast.
Alban (35:50):
I really enjoy those because you can create a little
clip and it's a video clip thatjust shows, like, the progress
going across, but it's got theartwork, it's got the episode
title, all of that information.
So when you send it to somebodythey can listen to it anywhere,
but then they can also see allthis other information about the
podcast, in case they want togo listen to the whole thing.
Kevin (36:09):
Yeah, a little nuance.
It's not that these apps don'tgenerate MP3s, so maybe not
super easy to use as anaudiogram, but they are movie
files like Albanston.
Jordan (36:18):
Yeah, what I've been doing lately, whenever I want to
share a clip, is I don't knowif Android has this they
probably do but iOS, they justhave a built in screen recording
tool.
Kevin (36:27):
Yes, that's on Android.
Jordan (36:28):
I'll line it up and I'll do the screen recording and
then I have to go into my photosand like crop it so you don't
see how low my battery is, Causeit's really embarrassing how
low it is all the time.
So I'm I'm in the camp of that.
Would be cool to have a nativeway to have like a little screen
grab.
Kevin (36:43):
Yeah, Isn't that funny.
Why is?
Why is low battery anembarrassing thing?
Alban (36:46):
Because people call it out.
I don't know, but also crackedscreen, oh yeah.
I always if someone's got like,it's not like a big crack, it's
mostly like oh, I'm going towait to upgrade it, but it's
like the small cracks.
I'm like what's going on?
You're dropping this phone alot, but you don't get a case.
What's going?
Kevin (37:01):
on here.
Yeah, I get all the littlechips around the edges.
Feel like it's just like ametaphor for your life, like
everything's just kind ofchipped and rolling around.
Jordan (37:11):
I once accidentally dropped my iPhone off of a patio
and it fell on the concrete andof course, the screen shattered
but it was still functionalbecause iPhones are amazing and
I took packing tape and put itover the top and I kept that
phone for like another ninemonths or something like that
and my boss at the time hefinally bought me a new phone
(37:32):
because I was embarrassing himat work meetings.
Like I just looked insane withthis like cracked screen with
tape on it.
Alban (37:40):
I did have a friend once who broke her phone and then was
like I'm going to show you.
And then said I'm going to takea screenshot to show you how it
broke.
Like that's not going to work.
It's on a photo of the screen.
Jordan (37:56):
All right.
So Steph Geopats podcast.
I want to be able to order mydownloaded episodes.
Can't do that in Podcast Addict.
Do any apps do this?
Yeah, Apple podcast does this.
They have a queue.
Spotify also has a queue whereyou can like rearrange the
episodes that you want to playnext.
Do you guys know of any otherones that you can do this?
Kevin (38:16):
Yeah, pocket cast has a I think they call it now, like up
next, I think is what they callit, and you can drag anything
up and down and around in there.
Alban (38:24):
Yeah, it's pretty much just setting up the queue so
that your episodes you want tolisten to next are up there and
then when that finishes, it goesinto the next one.
D Sparkling, life Coach,reached out, said I'm with
Jordan and Albert.
I'd love to see an option forsocial like commenting and
liking and bookmarking episodes,similar to what YouTube and
GoodPods have.
My favorite app is ApplePodcasts, but I've been
(38:45):
listening more on GoodPods forthat option.
Yeah, I mean D, I agree withyou, agreeing with us.
It would be nice to have oneplace, you know, where you could
just drop comments and chatwith people kind of
asynchronously about an episode.
That is one of the things thatI really love about YouTube is,
you know you can go onto a videothat's five years old and it's
(39:05):
got all of the you know, theseinteresting comments and people
sharing things, and so you canlearn more about whatever the
topic is about.
Jordan (39:13):
I actually heard from Megan, who does our Buzzsprout
Weekly podcast and she does theBuzzsprout newsletter.
She had pulled a story thatDeezer has implemented an
algorithm where listeners caneither like or downvote podcast
episodes and it's sort of like aReddit style recommendation
(39:36):
algorithm that they have, butit's personal to that podcast
listener and I really like that.
I would love that so much morethan having like rating and
reviewing systems, like if wecould have that and more podcast
apps where I could just saylike, yeah, I like this or no, I
didn't really enjoy this andthey go great.
We'll quit serving up more ofthis stuff to you.
Kevin (39:56):
Yeah, as far as what they're recommending.
Jordan (39:58):
Yeah.
Kevin (39:59):
Yeah, I do like that.
That's reminiscent of earlyNetflix work.
Yes, you remember when you usedto have to log into Netflix.
You'd watch something andthey'd ask you to give it a
thumbs up or thumbs down.
Then they moved to like a starrating.
But it was all for the benefitof them trying to get an
understanding of the type ofmovies and TV shows you'd like,
so they could suggest otherthings that you might also like.
Jordan (40:22):
And then you start figuring out like the weird
niches that you're into, likecerebral, like clown stuff, I
don't know, know like it wasalways they always have really
weird categories, cerebral cruckat some point.
Kevin (40:35):
I'm imagining they got sophisticated enough where
they're like.
We don't have to ask themanymore.
We can just tell by how much ofthe stuff that they're watching
that we can figure out what youlike and don't like.
They're probably still tryingto figure me out, since I watch
all my movies at 2X no you don't?
Jordan (40:49):
Yes, he does, please don't.
Kevin (40:51):
Yes, he does.
Yeah, but that's good.
But what's more exciting to meabout that is Deezer is alive.
That's fantastic.
I thought Deezer got shut downat one point.
I hadn't heard anything aboutthem in a long time.
All right, well, good for them.
Deezer should also check outthe you know the pod roll tag
that you could find out if I'mlistening to a show, that
(41:12):
podcaster may be recommendingother shows.
That might have some influenceon your algorithm as well.
Yeah.
Alban (41:15):
So for sound off next week I was in the buzzsprout
Reddit group, where now we're upto, I think, 900 people in the
group, so we'd love for peopleto come and join us.
But I was in there and chattingwith somebody and they're
talking about all these growthtips that they've done.
They're like, oh, we've triedeverything that's like off the
wall.
And they named all these kindof random ideas.
(41:37):
But one of them was they madeany music that they made for the
episode they put on likeSoundCloud and then link back to
the podcast.
And then they made Pinterestposts about the podcast and they
were sharing all these kind oflike off the wall ideas.
And they said and now we cansee a third of our new listeners
come from all these weirdbacklinks that we created over
(41:59):
the years.
Jordan (42:01):
Oh, interesting.
Alban (42:02):
And so my question for you is like what's the strangest
podcast growth tip that you'vetried that's worked?
I'd love to hear you know wecame up with unique podcast
growth tips a few months ago forpeople but I'd like to hear
from our listeners Are there anythat you've tried that are
unique, that we maybe haven'theard of?
Jordan (42:21):
Yeah, let's get into the weird stuff.
Man, let's go.
Alban (42:26):
I'd think weird, as in like very few people are trying
this, and if it's working, thenwe want to get it out there, so
everybody knows.
Oh yeah, I wouldn't havethought you would get any
listeners by taking the musicyou made for your show and
putting it on SoundCloud, butapparently somebody did make
that work.
Jordan (42:42):
All right.
So to have your responsefeatured on our next episode, go
ahead and tap the Texas Showlink in our show notes.
That's the easiest way for meto grab all those.
So when you send us messagesvia email, DMs, Twitter, it's a
little bit harder for me toremember and I might miss them
on the next episode.
So be sure to tap that Texasshow link.
Thank you all for listening andkeep podcasting.
Kevin (43:09):
Did you guys notice a new feature in Buzzsprout?
No, I did not.
What did we launch?
There is a hidden.
It's pretty hidden.
Jordan (43:21):
Okay.
Kevin (43:21):
But Buzzsprout has been a longtime supporter of
transcripts.
You both know that we've beendoing a lot of work to be able
to generate high qualitytranscripts ourselves without
using a third party.
The bar is pretty high for usbecause we've been using some
really great third party tools,so it's not like we can just
roll out kind of averagetranscripts.
We need to roll out goodtranscripts if we're going to
(43:42):
replace any offerings that wehave currently.
And that work is now beenpublished, and the really nice
thing about it is that, sincewe're it's brand new and we're
testing it out right now, anypodcast episode that's uploaded
to Buzzsprout you can create atranscript for free using the
new Buzzsprout transcripts tool.
Okay, how does this work?
(44:03):
Okay, so any episode you upload, if you don't have, if you have
co-host turned on, youautomatically get a transcript
for free.
That already happens.
You can edit it, all the thingsyou'd expect.
If you don't have co-host, thenyou can click into your episode
and on the right hand sidethere's a little section that
says do you know you have atranscript for this episode or
do you want to create one?
Add a transcript here.
You tap into that and thenyou're brought to a page which
(44:33):
gives you different options.
One like if you already have awritten transcript, you want to
upload that or paste that in.
You can just do that If youdon't have a transcript.
There's some options below thatto create a transcript.
And now there's a new optionthere and it's basically let
Buzzsprout create a transcriptfor you for free for a limited
time, and we're just calling itBuzzsprout transcripts.
It's in in beta, but it is openand available to anybody who's
on any paid plan withinbuzzsprout very cool.
(44:53):
So I think we're probably gonnalet them roll for free for, you
know, four to six weeks,roughly like that's a work cycle
in our plate and like how werun things.
We're gonna let it roll for alittle while while people give
us some feedback on the qualityof the transcripts they're
getting and the editingexperience.
After that we'll probably rollit into like an add-on package,
like we do with magic, masteringand co-host and everything else
(45:15):
.
These transcripts are not freefor us to create, so there's
some cost involved.
So we need to make sure we'recovering our bases there.
But I'm really excited because,uh, we do it.
We did it for a couple reasons.
One, we believe in the power oftranscripts for helping all the
accessibility benefits thatcome along with that opening the
podcast listening experience tomore and more people,
(45:35):
regardless of whateverconditions they may have that
may limit their ability to hearclearly so you can always read
along.
It also helps with somediscoverability, so more and
more podcast apps are pulling intranscripts and then you could
search through episodes, like wejust talked about in our
SoundOff segment today.
More apps are doing greatthings, like Metacast being able
to swipe and create notes fromtranscripts.
(45:56):
More apps are just supportingtranscripts in general.
Like we talked about this year,apple Podcast Apps has a really
great transcript integrationfeature.
Pocket Cast is adding it.
We'll probably see more andmore of that coming to more and
more podcast apps.
So I just feel like 2025 andbeyond is just going to be like
(46:16):
transcripts are just going tobecome table stakes for
podcasting.
If you publish a podcast, it'sgoing to sort of be expected
that there's a transcriptavailable with it, and so we
decided to make the biginvestment to make sure that
everybody who hosts onBuzzsprout has a really easy way
to get high quality transcripts.
Alban (46:29):
I really love it because I mostly am not reading podcasts
, Though sometimes I'll listento a podcast and later on go
back and read and kind of pullnotes.
But lately I found myself muchmore often pulling up old
Buzzcast episodes and I'm like Ithink we talked about this.
I want to remember what wecovered and what we didn't and
you could just go back andsearch.
It's so nice to be able tosearch old episodes.
(46:51):
Kevin sent an article, I don'tknow, maybe a week ago, and
you're like, oh, this isinteresting.
And I was like, yeah, I thinkwe talked about it on Buzzcast.
And I went back and I was like,oh, we kind of talked about it,
but it was a little bitdifferent than I'd remembered.
But I wasn't going to gothrough the process of listening
(47:12):
to hours of content trying tofind that bit again.
But it was super easy whenthere's a couple keywords and
you just start searching and yougo, okay, yeah, it's not there.
Smartless (47:17):
Yeah, yeah.
Kevin (47:18):
There's.
There's some really fun thingsyou can do when the majority or
all of your podcast episodeshave transcripts associated with
them.
With AI tools that areavailable today, you can train
your AI.
So, for example, I've got achat GPT subscription and I and
it's now it has memory so youcan teach it things and so you
can say this is my podcast,here's the RSS feed and you can
(47:39):
see at line whatever.
73, there is a link to atranscript file.
There is a pattern there.
Can you see the pattern betweenthis episode and all the other
episodes?
Yes, so now you know how topull down transcripts.
Can you please pull down thetranscripts from my last 10
episodes and tell me like giveme ideas for what a good next
episode would be, and like youcan start interacting with AI
(48:00):
agents in this way.
Does that work?
It does work.
Yeah, I've been doing a lot ofexperimenting with that, but I
think they're going to getbetter at being able to discover
transcripts on their own, butright now, you have to teach it
the pattern of how to find yourtranscript and then, once it
finds that pattern, then it canfollow that pattern and it can
pull in transcriptsautomatically.
It can read them, parse them,get that knowledge and then you
can ask it questions about yourstuff.
Jordan (48:22):
That would have been so nice to have when we had our
hundredth episode.
Oh yeah, and I pulled thoseclips that were like the best of
moments of buzzcast in the pasthundred episodes that took so
much time for me to go through,find it, figure out what
timestamp it was on, and then,like, go and listen through all
these things and be like, ohyeah, that was a good moment or
(48:44):
this was really compelling orfunny and I that would have
saved me hours probably.
Kevin (48:49):
Yeah, Do you guys remember a couple of weeks ago
when I was in the company chat,I was saying you know, like I'm
teaching chat GPT how to dothings, and I said I taught it
how to find the transcript for abuzzcast episode and I said I
was wondering if it knew, sinceI taught it from basically my
instance of chat GPT, if yourinstance would then figure it
out.
I remember you asking aboutthis yes.
Yeah, instance of ChatGPT, ifyour instance would then figure
(49:13):
it out.
I remember you asking aboutthis, yes, yeah, and so I think
like one of our programmerschimed in and said I asked
ChatGPT to find a Buzzsprouttranscript and it could not find
it.
So my experiment was failing.
It wasn't going outside of mybox, but I can still go into my
ChatGPT and say, hey, can youfind the latest transcript for
the latest Buzzcast episode, andthen I can ask it questions
about that, and it can do that.
I don't have to retrain itevery time.
That's pretty impressive, yeah.
So anyway, enough with the AIstuff.
But yeah, if you don't dotranscripts, please hop in there
(49:34):
.
We would love as many people aspossible to try out the new
Buzzsprout transcripts featureand edit your transcript.
Once it's processed and youhave one, jump into the editor,
see what you think about that.
You can assign speakers, youcan correct any typos.
You don't have to do extensivelike get every single word
perfect, but just polish up theglaring errors and then publish
it.
They appear on your Buzzsproutwebsite.
(49:59):
And, as I mentioned before, areappearing in more and more
podcast apps.
So it's a good thing, we'reexcited to bring it to you, but
it's still early days, so weneed testers and feedback and
all that stuff.
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