The 5 Mistakes That Lose Podcast Listeners

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Are you unknowingly sabotaging your podcast? We’re diving deep into the biggest pitfalls that trip up even the most seasoned podcasters—and how you can avoid them. From stretching episode lengths (when is it too long?) to finding the right balance with ads, we tackle the choices that can make or break a show’s success.

Plus, we're thrilled about all the Buzzsprout podcasters announced in the Women in Podcasting Awards, Kevin gets excited about a cognitive study on speed-listening, and we recount our recent meetup in Nashville!

Links mentioned:

• David Hooper - Big Podcast
• Why Listeners Enjoy Sped-Up Podcasts
• 2024 Women in Podcasting Award Winners
• Five Ways that Podcasters are Their Own Worst Enemy 

Sound-Off Question: Have you ever experienced a podcasting pitfall? What did you learn from it?

Contact Buzzcast

• Send us a text message
• Tweet us at @buzzcastpodcast, @albanbrooke, @kfinn, and @JordanPods

Thanks for listening and Keep Podcasting!

Episode Transcript

Kevin (00:00):
All right, hey, before we kick off today, as you know, we
are three influencers and wehave had a rough week.
We lost an influencer this week.
I think we should start theshow with a moment of silence
for P'nut the Squirrel.

Jordan (00:11):
I don't even know who P'nut the Squirrel is.

Alban (00:13):
Jordan.
This is kind of big right now.
How do you not know who P'nutthe Squirrel is?

Jordan (00:17):
Well, okay, now I got to look it up.

Kevin (00:19):
Oh it's sad, it's terribly sad.

Jordan (00:21):
Oh, but it's going to be like when Grumpy Cat died,
isn't it?

Kevin (00:25):
It's actually worse.
I think yeah, because GrumpyCat, I think, died of natural
causes.

Jordan (00:29):
Oh geez.

Alban (00:31):
So P'nut.
P'nut was murdered by the state.

Jordan (00:33):
Oh my gosh.

Alban (00:35):
It's basically, you remember Harambe the gorilla.

Jordan (00:38):
Yeah.

Alban (00:39):
That only it's a squirrel .

Jordan (00:40):
Did P'nut bite somebody?

Kevin (00:43):
There's allegations that P'nut did bite one of the people
trying to remove him from hishome.
Self-defense I think it wasself-defense, yeah.

Jordan (00:49):
Oh, P'nut was so cute.
I'm looking at this Call forjustice for P'nut and NYSDEC
reform.
Holy cow, they've got $153,000raised for this, whoa.

Kevin (01:06):
The state is saying that P'nut bit somebody who tried to
remove him from his house.
So they had to test P'nut forrabies.
And the only way to test P'nutfor rabies is to euthanize him.
What that's how?
They can't test him when he'salive, evidently.
But the argument against thatis P'nut lived with his owner
for seven years before they cameto get him.
So it's like obviously P'nutdidn't have rabies and it seems
like you can have a squirrel asa pet, you just have to have a
permit.

(01:26):
And the owner did not have apermit, so that was his bad.
But why couldn't the state justcome in and say listen, you've
got like just 14 days or 30 daysor something like get a permit,
and if not we're going to comeback and take P'nut.
Yeah, but like, do they have tojust do it right, get a permit?

(01:48):
Well, we got through that.

Jordan (01:49):
On that note.

Kevin (01:50):
RIP P'nut.

Jordan (01:50):
RIP Peanut.
Welcome back to Buzzcast! Apodcast about all things
podcasting from the people atBuzzsprout.
Let's get into our trip toNashville.

Alban (01:59):
It was a great week yeah, it was a great week.
This is the third annualbuzzprout meetup and we got
everyone together.
We went to Nashville andsomeone who didn't plan it,
kevin, did most of the planning.
I feel like I can say that wasour best one by a lot, I thought
it was really really well doneand really had a wonderful time
in Nashville.

Kevin (02:18):
Yeah, I was super impressed with Nashville.
I've never spent a lot of timethere, been in and out a few
times.
There was a podcast movementthere a couple of years ago.

Jordan (02:25):
That's where I met you guys for the first time.

Kevin (02:27):
You say that I don't believe that's true, but we
don't have to go into all thatagain the first time in person.

Jordan (02:33):
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Kevin (02:34):
If you say so.
But yeah, it's the first timethat I've seen Nashville like
boots on the ground, hitBroadway, had like Nashville
restaurants, did a little jogaround the city, Got to see the
Vanderbilt campus and stuff.
Really nice, really nice town.
We had great weather.
It was a beautiful place.

Alban (02:51):
Yeah, I think it's very cool because it's got all the
music in the world and it's gotmultiple colleges, so it's got
college town feel.
It's got kind of thisdestination Country Music Hall
of Fame, but it's also gotBroadway, but also as a football
team.
And Country Music Hall of Fame,but it's also got Broadway, but
also as a football team, and sothere's lots coming together
and it's also not a big city, soit's a bit different.
I don't know, maybe the closestto it would be something like

(03:11):
New Orleans.

Jordan (03:12):
Really.

Alban (03:13):
So I'm trying to think of , like not very large cities
that have destination purposes,that's what.
New Orleans pops in yeah.

Jordan (03:19):
Yeah, and we stayed in like a really neat place, so we
were at the Virgin Hotels.

Kevin (03:25):
Right.

Jordan (03:25):
And we got to stay at the flight house there.
It's like a big red house justplopped in the middle of
downtown and it was really cool.
It was like I don't know it waswhat.
Even was it?
It was like a Airbnb or yeahit's an Airbnb.

Kevin (03:40):
I don't know the history of the flight house.
I imagine there is some historybecause it looks like it's been
there for a long time, ahundred plus years.
Very old, old house that's nowbeen renovated as a luxury
vacation rental.
Yeah, national being a bigdestination city for
bachelorette parties and stufflike that, I think that's
primarily what people use it for.
We were able to use it for acorporate retreat Same vibe.

Jordan (04:07):
Yeah, it was really cool .
So the girls got to stay in theflight house and it was very
fun because there was like apink room and like a yellow room
and an orange room and a blueroom and it was really fun just
going around to like eachother's rooms and seeing who got
what.
It was just all decorated likereally crazy.
You could definitely tell itwas like intended to be a party
house, but it was really cool.

Kevin (04:25):
Yeah, and they have a great outdoor space and a great
kitchen space and like acomfortable big living room area
so we could use that for ourall team meetings.
You mentioned the Virgin hotel.
The Virgin hotel was amazingfor anybody listening who's
looking for a hotel that isaccommodating to large groups.
The Virgin Hotel was probablythe easiest I've ever worked
with.

Alban (04:45):
I feel like there's so many times that I've been
radicalized by going to adifferent hotel and then they
get you on a contract and thenyou're like, oh, we need like
one more table.
And then some like guy comesout and he's like, all right,
I'm gonna have to get two morepeople, we have to update the
contract.
We're gonna bring out the tableand you're like, oh, my gosh,
can we just have another table?

Jordan (05:02):
Oh yeah.

Alban (05:03):
And everything is new contract, more workers, and it
just spirals out of control.
But here they were, just likeeverything was super
accommodating and it waswonderful, I mean we had an
awesome meetup.
We had drinks, we had food, wehad people taking photos, we had
all sorts of stuff.

Jordan (05:18):
We got to meet some Buzzcast listeners.

Kevin (05:20):
Yeah, the customer meetup on Thursday night was great
yeah.
A lot of fun I think we had.
I don't know I'm not good atestimating numbers Probably
around 30.

Alban (05:27):
Does that sound right to you guys?

Kevin (05:28):
30 customers or so show up from the Nashville area 30
customers, 20 Bus Broughtemployees, probably about 50
total.

Alban (05:34):
That'd be my guess.
Yeah.

Jordan (05:36):
Yeah, so Eric Nordhoff and his wife came by you were
there.

Alban (05:40):
They were fun to talk to, Always good to see them.
I actually met David Hooper.
I don't know if either of youknow David, but he wrote a book
called Big Podcast a few yearsago that we have in the office.
He lives in Nashville.
So he showed up and he was liketelling me about this book and
I'm like I'm pretty sure I havethat book.
It's right next to my desk.

Jordan (05:59):
That's so funny.

Kevin (06:00):
Yeah, I spoke with Lark and Momster.
They have a podcast Hosted onBuzzsprout which I hadn't
listened to before, but I got tomeet them and while I was
eating we had a fun conversation.

Jordan (06:10):
Yeah, they were super cool.
We also got to meet Derek fromPardon the Insurrection.

Kevin (06:16):
Oh, yes, yeah, Derek is awesome.

Jordan (06:19):
He was so cool.
I love Derek I think we've methim a few times at different
podcasting events.
It's always good to see him,yeah, and then the gals from the
Sideline Rewind podcast.

Alban (06:29):
Were they the former Titans?
Cheerleaders, yeah.

Jordan (06:32):
Oh my gosh Seriously yeah.

Alban (06:34):
That's so cool.

Kevin (06:34):
That's because they connected with Kara because Kara
was a cheerleader for theJaguars and so they had a lot in
common, yeah, and evidentlyKara might be on their podcast
soon, oh cool.
So it was a great night.
It was an outdoor event, whichis always a little nerve
wracking because you never knowwhat the weather's going to be
like.
There's a backup plan to moveindoors, but nobody really wants
that.
But the weather cooperated.
The space was wonderful, thefood was great, it was a

(06:56):
wonderful time.
So I mean, we can't do itobviously at any place.
It has to be bigger cities.
We have a decent chance ofhaving enough customers in the
area to make it worthwhile.
But we've rolled the dice withNashville and I think it worked
out really well, and so maybethis is something that we try to
add on to all of our teammeetups going forward, as long
as the city is large enough tohave enough customers in the
area.

Alban (07:16):
Absolutely.
I think that's a really goodidea.
Obviously, I think it's nicefor people who want to come to
the meetup the customers but myreal reason for it is pretty
selfish and that's that peopleon the team get to meet somebody
who they impact with their work.
So I had somebody I was talkingto who was telling me about how
much they enjoyed theBuzzsprout apps and they're like

(07:36):
yeah, it's so cool that you'redoing all these apps.
It's really valuable.
I use them every day and I'mlike okay, let me introduce you
to somebody.
And then I walk them over toDylan and I'm like this is Dylan
, he leads all of our mobilework.
And then they get to talk andDylan's like wow, it was so cool
I've never met someone that Icreated the app and then they
were using it.
And you just get to set those upover and over and over again.

(07:58):
People meet someone who helpedthem in customer support, or you
watched a video that Jordan orI made, or they listened to
Buzzcast.
It's so important for us tofeel, oh, the work that I did
didn't just go out to the void,didn't go out to nobody, it
actually went out to real people.
And then if you get to meetthem in person, that's just so
encouraging for when next timeyou're working on something to

(08:19):
remember.
Oh yeah, like David Hooper toldme, he listens to Buzzcast.
That's cool.
I'm going to remember it whenI'm prepping for an episode and
I want to do a little bit of abetter job.

Jordan (08:28):
Yeah, just think of David.
So this is a topic that we haveactually covered in the past
because of Kevin's horrendouspodcast and movie consumption
rates.

Kevin (08:42):
And now there's some science behind my position.

Jordan (08:45):
Now there's some science behind it and Kevin's getting
vindicated and I'm likebegrudgingly talking about this
story.

Alban (08:52):
I don't buy it.
This, this whole article, oh mygosh.

Kevin (08:55):
Alban, follow the science , my friend, it's right in front
of you.

Alban (08:58):
I got to do my own research on this one, kevin,
because nothing in this ringstrue to me.
All right, jordan, you can.
You can recap the article, Iguess, before I jump in.

Jordan (09:05):
Let's cue this up.
So CBC News interviewed acognitive scientist to
understand the effects ofaccelerated media on the brain.

Kevin (09:14):
And what did they find?

Jordan (09:16):
They found this.
The first thing that they talkabout is podcasts, because a lot
of people listen to podcasts atlike 1.25 1.5 speed, but a
study by UCLA's Alan Castellshowed that younger listeners,
especially college-age students,retain nearly as much
information when listening tocontent at double speed.

Kevin (09:34):
Double speed.

Jordan (09:35):
And for many they said it reduces mind wandering, which
is where they just like getdistracted and don't think about
what they're listening to.

Alban (09:43):
You know what mind wandering is?
I'm just saying.

Jordan (09:46):
I don't know if you guys were mind wandering while I was
explaining it.

Kevin (09:50):
No, you know I didn't do a good job of articulating that
part of my argument, but I thinkI do suffer from that.
When I listen to podcasts at 1X, I oftentimes I'm doing
something else and then I findmyself getting more involved in
whatever else I'm doing insteadof listening to the content.
But when the content's faster,it holds my attention a little
better.

Alban (10:07):
Yeah, I think that maybe it's just that I'm doing
different things when I'mlistening to podcasts.
I was never listened bythemselves.
I'm not sitting there likearound the radio listening with
my family, mostly driving orworking out or you know,
cleaning or something, and Ifeel like doing two things at
once keeps my attentionextremely locked in.
So I feel like when I'mlistening to a podcast even one

(10:30):
X or with kind of like smartspeed where it's cutting out the
silences, I feel like I'm aboutas focused as I could be.
I don't know if I would getmore focused with like 1.5 or
two X or something.

Jordan (10:40):
Yeah, and it sounds like it's a slippery slope because
they're saying that you know, ifyou, if you regularly listen to
podcasts that like anaccelerated speed, then you
train your brain to like want todo that, but that I mean that
kind of segues to the music.
Portion of this is that youknow people are starting to
listen to music at acceleratedspeeds too, and really we have
TikTok to think for this.

(11:01):
Think about the Wednesday dance.
So Wednesday there was thisfamous scene where she's dancing
in the black dress.
Everyone's seen it.
It's to Bloody Mary by LadyGaga.
But the version of it that gotreally popularized was this like
super sped up version.
It's that's what people like,because if you actually listen
to the real song it's like athalf speed and it sounds weird,
like it sounds wrong.

Kevin (11:21):
Do you know why they sped it up for the TikTok version?

Jordan (11:24):
I honestly feel like it's to match up with
Wednesday's dance.
Like she's got this like handthing.
That's very like MichaelJackson-esque.

Kevin (11:31):
But isn't she dancing, Like when they did that for the
show?
Wasn't she dancing to that song?

Jordan (11:36):
That song was.
The song that she danced to wasGoo Goo Muck.

Kevin (11:39):
Oh.

Jordan (11:40):
Which is also really good.

Kevin (11:40):
but Well, I might've been wrong on this.
I mean on the social apps, onTikTok and Instagram reels and
YouTube shorts.
I always assumed people werespeeding up the songs to get
around the automated copyrightviolation stuff.

Jordan (11:53):
Ooh.

Kevin (11:54):
Thinking that they would be tricking the automated
systems that were looking forthat type of music.

Jordan (11:58):
And maybe if you sped it up, it wouldn't catch it as
often.

Kevin (12:01):
But maybe that's where it started, and then people
started catching on.

Alban (12:10):
Yeah, well, there was some research that was in this
article about that.
Sometimes increasing the tempoof a song makes people feel
happier like higher heart rateand so they'll take long but
slow and sad songs and compressthem.
And then people will be like,oh yeah, this is like exciting
and fun now, but I feel likethat defeats the purpose.
If it's a sad song, the pointis to like feel the sad
song-ness of it, not the listento it, and be like, oh, I'm
going to make like ahappy-go-lucky version of this.

Kevin (12:33):
I found a new word in here that I wasn't familiar with
.
They refer to it as acceleratedmusic is also known as
nightcore.
Yeah, I'd never heard of that.
It's become a phenomenon,especially on platforms like
TikTok, where a sped up versionof a song often gains more
traction than its originals.
When I look up Nightcore onWikipedia, also known as sped up
edit of a version of a musictrack that increases the pitch
and tempo of its source material, so you need to start listening

(12:56):
to like Nightcore podcastingyeah.
I wonder where they got thatname.
The name is derived from theNorwegian musical duo Nightcore,
which released pitch-shiftedversions of trance and Eurodance
songs.
There you go, all right.
And what do they say aboutwatching fast movies and TV
shows?

Jordan (13:13):
This is the one that just it pains me.
There was a cognitive scientistthat found that audiences have
gotten so good at processingthese visuals that shot lengths
in movies are actually shorternow than they used to be, which
makes sense, and I think thatit's just kind of like a
reflection on how quickly peopleare receiving information now,

(13:33):
like we just yeah people'sbrains are changing.

Alban (13:36):
Have you seen this trend of combining multiple clips into
one, like YouTube or Instagramshort or real or whatever?
Like you're watching on the topis like a podcast interview and
on the bottom is like somebodyplaying Roblox or Minecraft or
something, and they put both onthere just so that your
attention is a little bit morelikely to stick.

(13:57):
So if you start watching theRoblox character jumping like
platform to platform for half asecond or the car racing down a
track and hitting stuff andyou're like, oh interesting, as
you're listening to the audio, Imean it just feels hyper
optimized in a very negative way.
I'm not a fan of this.
I think that our attentionspans get shorter and shorter

(14:17):
the more of this junk we throwin there, and our brains are
like, oh, I need more novelty,more bangs and Michael Bay style
explosions and fast music andeverything like constantly
switching and it just feels verylike chaotic.
To me it still works, it justdoesn't feel healthy.

Jordan (14:35):
Yeah.

Kevin (14:36):
Yeah, brain change.
Everyone's talking aboutclimate change, but we should be
talking more about brain change.

Jordan (14:41):
Brain changes.

Alban (14:42):
Well, it was interesting how many people they got that
said.
Songs that are sped up createnovelty.
I think that makes sense to me.
You know, you hear a song onceand then you listen to it at 2x
and you're like, oh, it remindsme of the original.
But the one that did not landfor me at all was somebody who
said we've gotten better atpulling information quickly from
our screens and that was whywe're watching faster videos and

(15:03):
faster podcasts and all thisstuff.
I'm like.
The fastest, though, is reading.
Reading is so much moreefficient than watching a movie
or listening to a podcast, and Ifeel like if all we're focused
on is efficiency, then I wouldjust find like a really good
book or podcast transcript orsomething Like you can read that
so much faster than you couldever listen to it.

Kevin (15:24):
I don't know.
I don't know if I agree withthat I think it depends on the
person.
Yeah, you've gotten good atreading because you're an avid
reader.

Alban (15:31):
Yeah.

Kevin (15:31):
And so you can read very quickly, and I'm assuming have
gotten very good at retainingwhat you read very quickly.

Jordan (15:37):
Yeah.

Kevin (15:37):
I am not an avid reader.
I am at best a casual reader.
Maybe I'll read like maybe sixbooks a year, tops, probably
more like four on an averageyear, and so I'm not reading a
ton, and so it does take me awhile to get through a book, but
I've gotten very good atlistening to podcasts very
quickly, so I think it's justwhatever you practice?

Alban (15:57):
Do you think that if, like we had a 45 minute podcast
and you were to listen to thatin 22 and a half minutes but you
also had like a blog post thatwas on the same thing, Do you
think that you would still takeover 22 and a half minutes to
read the blog post?

Kevin (16:12):
I don't know I've never tested that theory.
I could confidently say that ifwe had the same amount of
material that you and I both hadto read and then took a test on
retention, and we only had acertain amount of time to read
it, you'd probably do better onthe reading portion.
And if we had to listen to apodcast like at 2X and then took
a test on retention, I might dobetter than you on that.

Alban (16:31):
But which of us would do better if it was a TikTok where
the top was a Roblox characterand the bottom was an AI?

Kevin (16:37):
voice talking over it.
See, Roblox doesn't hold myattention, but if they were
cutting moonsand with amulticolored knife, I'd be all
in for that.

Alban (16:44):
I know exactly what you're talking about.
I've seen this too.

Jordan (16:46):
Shampooing a rug?

Kevin (16:48):
Oh, yes, I get so much dirt out of those rugs.

Alban (16:58):
I can watch that forever, all the power washing videos,
if it gets me.
I'm like wow, that's reallydirty.
Oh my gosh, power washing stillworks.
Yeah, actually, I think thishas proven our point that it
does work pretty well.

Kevin (17:06):
Yeah, it does All right.
Well, I feel vindicated by thescience.
Please link up that article soeveryone can read along and feel
good about their 2x listening.

Jordan (17:18):
The winners were announced for the 2024 Women in
Podcasting Awards, and 11 ofthem are host on Buzzsprout.
Women in Podcasting Awards, and11 of them are hosts on
Buzzsprout.
So there is over 15,000listeners participating in the
voting process and there were400 nominees for the Women in
Podcasting Awards.

Alban (17:34):
Yeah, that's really cool.
Big thanks to James Cridland,who highlighted this for us and
sent it over.

Jordan (17:40):
Yeah.

Alban (17:40):
There's lots of interesting shows.
And do either of you ever getjust kind of blown away by how
many good podcasts there arethat you've never heard of shows
?
And do either of you ever getjust kind of blown away by how
many good podcasts there arethat you've never heard of?

Jordan (17:48):
Yes.

Alban (17:49):
I pretty regularly will find a show and I'll click into
it.
I'm like, wow, this is reallygood, this is really well done.
You know, it's just reallyexciting to see somebody doing a
cool show and then you're likeman, this is still not a very
large show and it's also oftenone I've never heard of.
There's just so much good stuffout there.

Kevin (18:06):
Yeah, I really love the categories I'm looking at.
Best travel podcast was aBuzzsprout winner.
Best storytelling podcast.
Best science podcast.
Best regional podcast.
Like these are not juststandard iTunes categories, like
they came up with some reallycool unique ones and I think
they did a great job.

Jordan (18:21):
Well and honestly, usually a lot of the women's
like podcasting awards thatpeople have done in the past,
the awards are kind of oddcategories.
It's not like you know the best, like design podcast, best
business podcast, things likethat like typical award
categories that you would justsee.
Generally they always have someweird odd categories whereas,
like, I think there was one Isaw that was like most

(18:43):
unflappable host, I was likewhat does that even mean?
I'm happy to see some likenormal award categories here.

Alban (18:50):
I think you're right.
You're both right in thatpicking different categories
made these probably come outwith better content, so they
surfaced a lot of differentshows.

Jordan (18:59):
Yeah.

Alban (18:59):
When you pick the same categories that Apple Podcasts
has well, Apple Podcasts has aranking.
It's called the Apple Podcastshas.
Well, Apple Podcasts has aranking.
It's called the Apple PodcastCharts, yeah.
And so you click in there and alot of times what wins are the
things that are at the top ofthe charts, the most popular.
But when you pick somethingthat might not be a one-to-one
Apple Podcast category it's notexactly another category then

(19:20):
maybe like documentary podcastsI don't think there's like a
documentary category, butregardless, there's tons of
these in here and I think whatthat does is people think about
it a little bit more and theythink, oh well, here's a podcast
I really love that's hosted bya woman, that is in this
category, and then theyrecommend it versus somebody
just scrolling through the Applepodcast categories and going,

(19:42):
okay, well, number one on thislist, number four on this list,
were hosted by women.
So those are the two winners.
That yields kind of more boringresults, I guess.

Jordan (19:50):
Yeah, the other thing that I really like about this is
that it's listener voted.
You know we had this withdiscover pods, and then discover
pods quit doing their awards,like a few years ago, and so
it's really nice to see this.
Where it's not a lot of theseaward shows feel very like
bought.

Alban (20:07):
You probably have to be a major network in order to win's
broad appeal podcasts, andmaybe you know like current

(20:27):
event podcasts or news podcasts,where everyone's like I kind of
want to keep up with what'shappening in the world and you
look in like eight of the top 20podcasts are all going to be
news related.
It's not that people are likethis is an amazing news related
show, it's just that it's news,so people listen to it every day
.
But these are podcasts thatsome of them probably only
release once every two weeks orsometimes even more, but the

(20:49):
listeners going no, this isactually a great podcast.
There's one about careers bestcareers podcast and people
listen to it and go yeah, thisactually impacted my career, so
I want to vote for it versus theones that are broad appeal.
So very good list.
We should definitely link to itin the show notes so people can
find.
I mean, there's like 50 showsin here.

Kevin (21:07):
So yep, that's great.
Congratulations to all thewinners, and especially the
Buzzsprout customers.
Thank you for trusting us withyour amazing podcast.

Jordan (21:18):
All right.
So there was a Substack articlelinked in Pod News this week
that really caught my attention.
It's from Frank Rachopi andit's called Five Ways that
Podcasters Are their Own WorstEnemy.

Kevin (21:31):
Yeah, catchy title.

Jordan (21:32):
Yeah, really catchy.
So the first three points arebasically, frank, whacking you
over the head with a less ismore stick.
I don't know.
At first I thought it was kindof critical of all podcasters,
so let's just go through some ofthe points that Frank made here
.
The first point he makes isthat podcasters have too many
podcasts.
All the podcasters havemultiple shows just because they

(21:53):
can podcast, and it's likecluttering up the ecosystem.

Alban (21:58):
Now is he arguing from a we're filling up the podcast
apps with too many options, oris he saying the podcasters are
splitting themselves among toomany different shows?

Jordan (22:07):
He's basically saying both podcasters, you know, just
because they can, they'recreating multiple podcasts and
it's like diluting listenershipbecause listeners can't listen
to that many podcasts, whichcould be proven wrong, based on
our couple segments ago where wetalked about listening at two X
speed becoming more and morepopular so they can consume more
podcasts.

(22:27):
But this is interesting.
So he says listeners carebecause podcast discoverability
is already a major issue withoutmore podcasts tossed into the
pool.
Other podcasters care becauseevery new podcast takes a slice
of the pie from existingpodcasts.

Kevin (22:42):
I don't know.
Here's what I'm thinking as apodcast consumer and listener.
My show selection is usuallybased on a combination of I find
a topic that I'm interested inand then I find a personality
that is covering that topic, andthen when the two come together
and align with my sensibilities, then I become a listener of
that show.
Oftentimes I find a show wherethe hosts also do other shows

(23:07):
and I'm not immediately drawn tothose other shows.
So it's very common for me tolisten to a podcast of a
podcaster who has two or threeor four podcasts and I've never
even gone to listen to the otherpodcasts because they're
different topics and thosetopics are not interesting to me
.

Alban (23:22):
Yeah, I think I'm with you, kevin.
I didn't really think of thispoint, but I think of Nilay
Patel on the Verge cast is notall that interesting to me, but
on Decoder, that's reallyinteresting to me and I think
he's a really good interviewer.
But I think the roundtablediscussion about tech news isn't
all that exciting for me, andif they were to kind of cram

(23:43):
those into one podcast or try todo different segments, I'd
probably find that show to be abit more boring and I might
churn away.
The point that I do like fromthis article, though, is I
definitely.
I mean, you meet people who arelike oh, I have three podcasts,
I have one about this, oneabout this, one about this, and
my thoughts are you know, ifyou're trying to grow any of

(24:04):
them, it might be valuable tojust focus on one and put all
your efforts into the one andget better and better at
podcasting rather than spinningup new projects, right.
So for that point I think I havea bit of like.
There's a bit of me that says,yes, this is definitely a
problem.
Podcaster can be their ownworst enemy, but when it's a
different format and you're asuccessful podcaster, I think

(24:26):
splitting it off is kind of kindto your audience, who doesn't
really want to listen tomultiple formats in the same
feed.

Kevin (24:32):
I think maybe the trap that this person might be
pointing out is that, as apodcast creator, you might think
that you're going to get morecarryover than you actually will
by launching additionalpodcasts.

Jordan (24:42):
Yes, so you might say oh .

Kevin (24:43):
I've got this show.
It's going pretty well.
I should launch another one,then I'll get all my existing
listeners plus new ones who areinterested in this new topic as
well.
Oh, yeah, and I think thatthat's a trap, like that's
probably not going to happen asmuch as you might want it to, or
you might think it might.

Jordan (24:56):
That's a good point.
Let's go to his second point,which is podcasters increasing
the length of their podcast.
So he's saying over the pastfew years episodes have been
getting longer and that can leadto listener fatigue, and he's
suggesting that you keepepisodes like concise and tight
and well-edited to respect youraudiences.

Kevin (25:15):
I'm all in on this one.

Jordan (25:16):
Yeah.

Kevin (25:16):
The majority of podcasts that I've listened to that have
been long running.
Shows have gotten a little bitlonger and longer and I don't
think it's like not becausethey're getting better and
better, they're just gettinglonger and longer and I find
myself skipping more andlistening faster and skipping
episodes.
But there's a show I used tolisten to on the regular, but it
used to be a little bit over anhour.
Now it's regularly over twohours and I'm like I'm not drawn

(25:38):
into it nearly as much.
I see it pop up that theyreleased again this week.
Okay, great, and I'm notexcited to listen to it.
I felt like it used to be a lottighter and I couldn't wait for
it to come out.

Alban (25:46):
You know, I feel like that way about TV shows.
There's times where TV showsthat are like 30 minutes long
are much easier to get into,because I'm like, okay, there's
a full story arc here in 30minutes and maybe you'll watch a
few of them, but if there's amovie that's like a three hour
movie, you have to almost likeplan the whole night around
watching that long movie.

Jordan (26:04):
Yeah.

Alban (26:05):
And there's times with podcasts where I see it's like
this two and a half hour showand I'm like I'm not getting
into that.
Now, Where's my podcast?
It's 15 minutes a piece.

Jordan (26:14):
Yeah.

Alban (26:14):
I'll listen to those and it just feels like a commitment.
Sometimes, when it's like athis is two hours, like come on,
this didn't need to be twohours.

Kevin (26:21):
I think there must be different personality types
though, because, like, I'm notfor the premium version of
podcasts, it's never a draw tome, it's never attractive to me
to pay to get the extended uncutversion of episodes or to get
the bonus interview or whatever.
I'm like I'm assuming thatyou're already taking the best
and cutting it down to be thetightest version and that's what
I got.
And then you want me to pay forthe junk you cut out because it

(26:42):
wasn't good enough to make thereal show.
But I'm also the person I'venever watched like a director's
cut of a movie.
I have no interest in reallywatching the director's cut.
Now, like the director'scommentary, I do find those
interesting when they're talkingabout how they shot this or why
they made these decisions.
I think that's interesting.
But this the extendeddirector's cut again, I'm like

(27:05):
eh, there's a reason why you cutout that extra 45 minutes of
the movie, right?

Alban (27:09):
Because most people found it boring.
I feel like it should actuallybe the other like.
The free version is the raw,unedited meandering conversation
and it's like and if you wantthe same episode with editing,
then come over to the Buzzsproutsupporters yeah, we covered the
same stuff, and half the time.

Jordan (27:26):
Yeah, I think you create a new premium subscription
model.
Shorter episodes.

Kevin (27:30):
I probably got that wrong with the books too.
Like the full book should belike 10 bucks and the SparkNotes
version should be like 150.
Like we're saving you a ton oftime.

Alban (27:40):
I remember reading the reviews on a book I read and on
Amazon, someone was like Readingthe reviews on a book I read
and on Amazon, someone was likegreat book, way too short and it
was nonfiction and I was likewhat's the?
You wanted her to rewrite thislonger.

Jordan (27:52):
Yeah.

Alban (27:53):
With more fluff.
Like that's what happens tobooks.
The author comes in with like areally good idea and premise
and they've got five reallygreat examples and the editor's
like look, we want to sell thisbook for like 19 bucks, so it
needs to be 230 pages minimum,so go add me another hundred
pages.
No, I'd much rather pay for theversion the author wrote that

(28:15):
was tight and was easier to read, rather than a bunch of fluff
that you're like this doesn'treally make their point.

Jordan (28:21):
Yeah, I mean we had a whole discussion about this on
one of our more recent episodes,where I mean we talked about
how the guys from acquired likeyeah, they have three hour
episodes, but it's edited.

Kevin (28:33):
Yeah, it's a tight three hours.
There's nothing wrong with along podcast.
There's a.
There's a problem with theboring podcast?
Yeah.

Jordan (28:39):
I mean it's like okay, so survivor.
You know they were 45 minuteepisodes.
They're 90 now, like the pastfew seasons it's been 90 minute
episodes.

Alban (28:48):
We're talking about survivor, like the TV show.

Jordan (28:50):
Yeah, and it's it's so stinking good, but it does take
more time and I'm finding thatsometimes we have to put off
watching an episode because oftime.
It kind of sucks a little bitin that way.
But we we do love it becauseit's it's a tight 90, you know a
tight 90.
It's really good.
It goes by fast.

Alban (29:08):
It's like a perfect segue to number three.

Jordan (29:10):
Okay, yeah, podcasters monetizing with too many ads and
his argument is that excessiveads, especially interruptive
programmatic advertising, iscompletely disrupting the
listener experience and it'skind of ruining podcasting.

Alban (29:24):
Well, I think that's why a lot of them got longer.
I think when it's longer andlonger there's more ad break
spots and if you're doing a verypopular three-hour show, you
could put in six, seven ad breakspots and you're like, oh, this
still would be a really lightload compared to radio or TV.
So the ad load's low, it's fine, and I think the ads plus the

(29:48):
desire to not really editcombine together to create these
long, meandering episodes thatshould be tightened up quite a
bit.
But when the money says golonger and stick a bunch of ads
in there and the laziness says,go longer, don't worry about
editing, I think that's whyeverything keeps getting more
and more, just longer episodes.
They're just getting longer.
They get more ads, cut themdown.

Kevin (30:09):
Yeah, I'm going to have to confess something on the show
.

Jordan (30:12):
Oh boy.

Kevin (30:13):
So I don't listen to a lot of podcasts produced by
Spotify, but I did this week.
I'm not in like a regularlistener to the Joe Rogan
podcast, but I did listen thisweek.
It's an election cycle and hehad a couple guests on this week
that I felt compelled toeducate myself and just listen.
Okay, who was it?
I don't want it to be politicaland this isn't what I'm talking

(30:38):
about, but the first one Ilistened to there were no ads
and I didn't even think about ituntil I listened to the next
episode, and I think maybe theyintentionally didn't put ads in
there because they didn't wantto monetize this particular
polarizing figure.
Okay, fine, that's not what I'mtalking about.
But the next episode that Ilistened to of the Joe Rogan
podcast there were ads and theywere in the worst possible spots

(30:59):
ever, like right in the middleof one person talking at length
about something pretty deep.
It would just cut off and go toan ad and then the ad is super
loud and it was Joe Rogan wasreading the ad.
It was definitely a prerecordedad that they just inserted at
this terrible spot, and I wasblown away with how terrible
this Spotify ad tech is.

Jordan (31:19):
Yeah, it's awful.

Kevin (31:20):
They're like, probably the company that's spending the
most in podcasting right now,and their ad tech is just
atrocious.

Jordan (31:26):
Yeah.

Kevin (31:27):
And so I'm wondering of how many poor opinions about
podcast advertising are beingformulated around Spotify just
not seeming to care about howthey approach ads and
advertising in general in thepodcasting space.

Jordan (31:40):
Yeah.

Kevin (31:41):
It was so jarring I literally had my earbuds in and
I was pressure washing and solike everything's already very
loud and then all of a suddenthis whole interview just gets
interrupted and Joe Carlin'sHardcore History has the most
aggressive jarring forgeteverything you knew about

(32:10):
history.

Jordan (32:12):
And the guy will be mid-sentence.
He's very soft-spoken, verygentle, and then I get the
forget everything you learnedabout history.
And it's just so loud.
It's scary and it's making mehate this podcast because it's
so loud.
Okay, so point number threehate this podcast because it's
so loud.

Kevin (32:26):
Okay, so point number three, I think, is a good point.

Jordan (32:29):
Yes.

Kevin (32:29):
Excessive ads, especially interrupted programmatic ads,
disrupt the listening experienceand can deter audiences.
I agree, but I do think ifmonetization of your podcast is
something that's important toyou and advertising is a
strategy that you want toimplement, I think there is a
good way to do it.
So I don't want to like throwthe baby out with the bathwater.

Alban (32:51):
Yeah, but it does seem like some of the largest
podcasts are doing a veryterrible job at this.

Jordan (32:52):
I agree.
All right, what do we have now?
Point number four podcastersengaging in extremism.
I somewhat agree with this.
So he's basically saying youknow, I love podcasting and I
don't want to become a trashheap of hate, extremism and
advocacy for violence.

Alban (33:07):
I think the point is yeah , this is a good point.

Jordan (33:11):
Yes.

Alban (33:12):
Extremist content.
Not great.
We're in a unique position oftrust.
That's true.
It's not good to createdivisive, sensational material,
but that doesn't apply uniquelyto podcasting, where some of
these other things are unique topodcasting.
This is just kind of a generallike yeah, if the only thing
you're doing in the world iscreating a bunch of hateful

(33:32):
rhetoric or something like,whether doing that on YouTube or
Tik TOK or a blog or anewspaper, you're just doing it
on a street corner, you're justa jerk.
Don't do it Like lean into someof the beautiful things in the
world.
Yeah, this is sort of just likea foundational thing, like just
don't be a garbage human being,I mean.
But I think podcasts seem tohave gotten a bit more of this.

(33:53):
Like often people talk aboutpodcasting as if podcasting is
extreme.
Podcasting, I don't think, isas extreme as lots of other
media types.

Jordan (33:59):
Yeah.

Alban (34:00):
I think it's just that you can find it here, like you
do on YouTube and you doanywhere else, and so I don't
know.
I think I thumbs down this.
It's a fair point, but I don'tfind it to be particularly
focused on podcasting Like.
This isn't really a podcastingexclusive problem.

Kevin (34:16):
Yeah, I don't even know what to say about this point.
It is definitely a weird thingfor him to try to touch on.

Jordan (34:22):
Yeah.

Kevin (34:23):
Podcasting is a unique publishing format, much like
blogs were at the time, and thenthey got kind of sucked up with
social media feeds and stufflike that.
And then, as those largerplatforms had user created
content and then they were usingalgorithms to promote certain
content, then they had to figureout where the lines were about
content they should promote andshouldn't promote.

(34:43):
That doesn't exist yet inpodcasting.
Maybe it does a little bit withlike Apple's charts and
Spotify's charts and stuff likethat, and those platforms need
to figure that out forthemselves.
But I think content creatorsshould be able to create
whatever content they want.
If you're going to buildsomething that's then going to
promote or demote content, youneed to seriously think about
what we're going to promote ordemote.
But the internet exists as aplace for people to publish

(35:04):
whatever they want, and the bestway for garbage content to not
get any traction is for peopleto talk about how.
You know this is not a good wayof thinking.
So if there's a podcast outthere that's extremist and yada,
yada, yada and it's starting togain traction, like I think,
the way to and that doesn'talign with you and your
sensibilities, then start apodcast about why that's not
good, and here's a better way tothink or highlight all the cool

(35:26):
podcasts we talked about at thebeginning of this.
Yeah, there's multiple ways tocombat this, but I don't.

Alban (35:30):
I feel like there's all these good shows that we are
finding that are not ones wehear about and we spend a lot of
time hand wringing over likepretty minor podcasts.
I mean like, oh, this is badyeah.

Kevin (35:42):
I don't like this point.
We'll move on.

Jordan (35:44):
All right, let's see how you feel about the final point
here Podcasters, copycattingtopics, genres and styles.

Alban (35:50):
Yes, 100%.

Jordan (35:54):
Here's the thing is he's saying true crime, celebrity
interview podcasts, they'reoversaturating the market and I
think that's true.
But I think that it's verygeneralizing to say that you
know copycatting topics andgenres.
The thing is, is there's onlyso many genres of anything you
know and so you're going tosomewhat copycat that?

Alban (36:15):
I think that that's true again, not just in podcasting,
but in any space, any medium youknow YouTubers copycatting each
other movies, books, but Ithink the very cool things
almost always are somewhatunique.
They're trying to tread somenew ground.
Look at podcasting.
10 years ago Serial came out.
That was a multi-episode deepdive into a court case that had

(36:38):
not really been done well onpodcasting before that.
Look at Rogan starting acomedian and TV show anchor or
game show guy, whatever you wantto say A comedian and TV show
anchor or game show guy,whatever you want to say doing
three-hour interviews withcelebrities.
That really wasn't being donewell at that point.
Look at Welcome to Night Vale,an entire fiction podcast about
a horror town or hardcorehistory, like you mentioned.

(37:01):
Five-hour deep dives into ahistorical story with one person
telling you the story.

Jordan (37:07):
Yeah.

Alban (37:07):
Those were unique or at least pretty unproven areas.
And now there's like 5,000podcasts with decent listener
bases that are all like we'regoing to do a deep dive into
this court case and I'm like,yeah, but we have serial, we
have a handful of good truecrime shows.
It would be very cool for youto try something totally

(37:27):
different, and I think theexperimenting phase of
podcasting was really high earlyon and it does seem like it's
died off a bit as people go oh,I'm a comedian, I could do a
celebrity podcast interview show.
It's like we've got enoughcomedians doing celebrity
podcast interview shows.

Kevin (37:44):
Right.
So I think the key word here isthe copycat, versus when he
goes in to make the argument hetalks about oversaturation.
And I don't think oversaturationis the problem.
I think copycatting is aproblem for podcasters.
And like, if you have a certainstyle or genre or whatever a
podcast that you enjoy, then tojust say, oh, I'm also going to

(38:06):
create my own podcast and it'sgoing to be just like these,
that's really not needed in theworld.
That podcast already exists,you don't need to copycat it.
But what's cool aboutpodcasting is that everybody has
their own unique take orperspective on something.
So if you love true crimepodcasts, is he saying, don't
start a true crime podcast.
I hope not.
I think what he's saying iswhat is your version of a true

(38:26):
crime podcast and how is itdifferent than all the other
true crime podcasts that are outthere?
So just this last week I had aconversation with a guy who runs
.
I just joined a localpickleball club and I was
talking with the owner.
He looked at my email addresswhen I registered and he's like
oh, you're with Buzzsprout.
I was like, yeah, he's like Ihad a podcast on Buzzsprout like
five or six years ago.
Run anymore?
He's like, no, pickleballwasn't big enough.

(38:46):
I wasn't, you know, getting thetraction.
I just, you know, wanted tostart up this business and
didn't have time and so we'retalking about that.
And I was like, well, that'scrazy now because, man, if you
would have stuck with it, thinkabout how big you'd be right now
.
Pickleball podcasts are huge.
There's a bunch of them that doreally well in the space.
I'm like it's too bad you gavethat up, but you should start it
up again.
Like there's no reason youshouldn't start it up again.
They're doing great.

(39:06):
He's like yeah, but now there'sso many.
He's like I should have stuckwith it, cause back when I was
doing it, there's only two orthree.
And now there's like 500pickleball podcasts and I was
like, well, how many do youlisten to?
And he goes.
I just listened to one.
I was like, what?
There's 500, are they no good?

(39:26):
And he's like, well, I want totalk about, like what is it like
to run a pickleball businessand how do you build a
pickleball community in the cityand what are like the cool,
like ideas and events you haveand what's unique about your
opinion?
I was like, if that podcastdoesn't exist, then that's your
show.
That's what you need to do this.

Alban (39:45):
Okay, isn't it a bit ironic that when nobody was
doing it, it was proof thatthere was no interest in the
area.
It was proof that it was a badidea.
And then, when a lot of peoplestarted doing it, it became
proof that it was overdone.
Like, maybe, if you feel likeit should be made, make it and
don't overthink the fact that,uh oh, this market isn't proven

(40:06):
out yet.
Yeah, it's probably not provenout because it's a unique idea
and you're going to get a reallynice first mover advantage.
And then, if you are going tobe the 30th, go listen to the
ones that are already doing itand identify what makes them bad
how could they be better, andthen come up with your own angle
.
Well, good article, jordan,thanks for sharing that with us.
I think a handful of these Ireally agree with.

(40:26):
A few kind of kicked off someinteresting conversations.

Jordan (40:29):
Yeah, I mean he basically wraps it up saying
that really the podcast networksare going to do what they're
going to do and it feels likethey're poisoning the well is
the gist I get from his article.
So he's just really hoping thatany podcasters will continue to
innovate and keep up theintegrity of the podcasting
space, because at some pointthey're going to do really well

(40:51):
and it's not going to matterwhat the big networks are going
to do.
So positive note.
All right.
So we've got some sound offmessages.
First off, we have a messagefrom Eric Nordhoff saying you
guys really lived out thestereotype of the Nashville life
this week.
Great to see you all last night, except we missed chatting with
Jordan.
Yep, I did miss you, eric.

(41:12):
I saw you but I didn't get togo say hi.

Alban (41:16):
It does say at the end, she was never freed up from her
adoring fans, which you left off.

Jordan (41:20):
I did leave that off because it's not true.

Kevin (41:23):
No, that's typical.
That's typical.
Everybody wants to hear theJordan laugh in real life.

Alban (41:32):
Glenn from Spirit Led Hope, hey Buzzcast.
Thank you for your faithfulencouragement and support of
podcasters of all sizes.
I run a small podcast in myspare time from my local church.
I appreciate the way yourtopics and insights are useful,
even for those of us who are notworried about listener numbers
or income.
Plus, your friendly bantermakes it fun.
Y'all are appreciated.
Thanks, Glenn.
That is such an awesome message.
I really appreciate it.

Kevin (41:50):
Yeah, thank you, glenn.
Rob from the Wicked Wanderingspodcast wrote in and said I
mentioned this before and youseem to take note about it, but
I was wondering if you'dimplement it.
I'd like to be able to add abutton in the follow section to
our merch store or add a buttonsomewhere else on the website.
Yep, I'm going to take note ofit again.
Only because we don't talkabout new features before
they're released, but we dolisten all the time and we have

(42:11):
long lists and a bunch of greatideas that we're implementing.
So maybe we will get around tothat at some point soon, but I
can't make any promises.
But thanks, rob, keep themcoming.

Jordan (42:18):
All right.
And then Glendale Alaska sentus a couple of messages, the
first one saying the thing Ifound interesting and humorous
about all of this host-readadvertising talk is that such a
thing is really a flashback toold-time radio.
Go back and listen to old-timeshows such as Jack Benny, fred
Allen and more.
They would make jokes about theproduct.
They would have comedy songswritten about the product and
they made the product part ofthe show.
It even became a joke sometimeswhen a product was mentioned

(42:41):
that wasn't an advertiser.
I actually went on YouTube and Ilooked up Jack Benny and I
found a really funny like fromthe 1960s Texco commercial where
he was interrupted midmonologue and they said, hey,
it's time for the ad.
And so he sat down and he readthe ad while they were changing
the set and it reminded me a lotof like some of these comedic

(43:02):
things that we see from likeConan O'Brien.
All right.
And then our second messagesays regarding your after show
comments, there are certainlymany movies we enjoyed in our
youth holding up when we viewthem as adults.
There are other movies that,while they don't hold up, we
still love them enough that wereally don't care, for example,
the original version of theRogers and Hammerstein
Cinderella with Leslie AnnWarren was a television
production shot on videotapewith fairly low end sets and

(43:23):
props, and yet, despite itstechnical failings, I still love
it.

Alban (43:27):
The thing that stands out , I remember, in this vein is
these old Lion, the Witch andthe Wardrobe.
Oh yeah, and like all theanimals are human sized because
they're just like costumes withhumans in them.

Jordan (43:40):
Yeah.

Alban (43:41):
And I didn't really appreciate as a child how
ridiculous it looked.
And then I rewatched part ofone I don't know years ago and I
was like this is wild.
This is a movie that I loved asa kid, but I'm sure watching it
you know the nostalgia helps ithold up a little bit better.

Jordan (43:57):
Okay, so one of my favorite shows when I was a kid
was HR Puff and Stuff, which isa deep cut from the seventies,
and if you look that up it is afever dream.
It's not great.

Kevin (44:10):
Not familiar.

Alban (44:12):
We got a message from Matt.
From Matt and Friends Drink theUniverse.
You all need to check out theGood Pods app.
It's newly redone and driven byrecommendations and likes from
listeners.
It's essentially a social appfor podcast listeners.
As a podcaster, I love it.
Good Pods has been doing lotsof interesting things over the
years and every few months I endup trying it out.
So if they've redone it andthey made some changes, maybe

(44:34):
it's time to go back and give itanother listen.

Jordan (44:36):
Yeah.

Alban (44:36):
I think, another look, another look.

Jordan (44:39):
All right, and our last sound off question was what are
some things you've gone to inperson lately and what made it
valuable?

Kevin (44:45):
Yeah, Sarah Rossett wrote in from a Wish I'd Known Then
podcast and said what meetupwould Kevin drive a couple of
hours to go to?
She suggested HVAC Fest.
I probably would.
I probably would.
I am very interested in theHVAC world.
Yeah, good suggestion, Sarah.
Thank you.

Jordan (45:02):
Dave Jackson said.
I attended EC Creator Camp andI love that it was capped at 100
people so I got to meeteveryone.
Their swag bag had stuff youactually would use, like a newer
light.
They kept you fed and all thesessions were about learning and
not vaguely veiled pitches.
You actually saw photos that heposted from the EC Creator Camp
and it looked really cool and Ilove those smaller get

(45:23):
togethers where it's only like100 people, because you really
do get to build strongerconnections with people over the
time that you're there.

Alban (45:30):
Yeah, ec Creator Camp for people who don't know is Ecamm
Live's king.
I had to look that up myself totry to figure out what it was.
One of the best conferences Iever went to was one that was
run like this.
I wanna say it was like 500people, but it was for Moz, the
SEO software.
I went two years ago and it wasvery expensive, but they
provided all the meals.

(45:50):
Everything was very high end.
They did a really good jobvetting speakers.
It was one track and I just gotso much out of that conference
and I think it was because whenthe prices are a little bit
higher, they're able to invest abit more in making the
conference as valuable aspossible.

Jordan (46:07):
Yeah, and our sound off question for our next episode.
Since we talked about the fiveways that podcasters are their
own worst enemy, I would like toknow if you have ever been your
own worst enemy in podcastingand what's a podcasting lesson
that you've learned the hard wayfrom that.
So, to send in your response,tap the fan mail link in our
show notes and you'reresponsibly featured on our next

(46:29):
episode.
So until then, thanks forlistening and keep podcasting.

Kevin (46:38):
You guys notice anything different about me.

Jordan (46:40):
Are you mewing?
That's what my kids do.
They do like the thing.

Kevin (46:44):
Do you see anything different?
Do I look different?

Alban (46:45):
Oh you grew your beard out a little more, a little
Santa.

Jordan (46:48):
Did you get Botox?

Kevin (46:50):
No, do you know what this is?

Jordan (46:51):
What am I looking at?

Kevin (46:52):
Mouth tape.
Mouth tape.

Jordan (46:54):
Oh, I heard Jimmy Fallon talking about this.

Alban (46:56):
What does that have to do with?
What are you trying to show usthat's different about you?
I mean one of the unproven havelike an improved jawline.

Kevin (47:11):
Do your jawlines improving Cause you've lost
weight and you work out all thetime, or it could be the last
two nights of using mouth tape.

Jordan (47:19):
Okay, it's so wild because I've never heard of
mouth tape up until like justrecently, and now it's just kind
of like blowing up, like peopleare using it for like snoring
and all this stuff.
Is this what this is for?

Kevin (47:29):
Any stupid little trend that hits online, I'm all in for
testing.
And so I went ahead and gotsome mouth tape.
I'm two nights in.
Yeah, I'm not convinced it'smagical, but I'm going for it.
You guys want to try some?
Should I send you some mouthtape?
I've already.
I've done mouth tape have I'vealready.

Alban (47:45):
I've done mouth tape, have you?
Oh yeah, I'm trying to pull upmy stats for it real quick.

Kevin (47:49):
Did you log it in your Wupat?
Yeah, did you see anyimprovements?

Alban (47:52):
Missing it now, but it was like 3% improvement on
recovery for me so it seemedlike it was helping a little bit
on the margins.

Kevin (47:59):
So why didn't you?
Why didn't you keep using it?
Does it stick to my mustache?
I know it does.
It pulls your hair out in themorning and it would always.

Alban (48:06):
I'd like rip it off in the night and then I'd have like
bumps on my lips from where it,like sticker, was stuck to me.

Jordan (48:12):
Oh my gosh.

Kevin (48:17):
There's a little hack around that.
I found that out.
I had the same problem nightone.

Alban (48:19):
So night two, I put chapstick on first before I put
the mouth tape on.
I don't believe in chapstick.
I'm serious, dude.
Chapstick is one of theseproducts that I don't know why
people ever start it, becauseonce you start, you can't stop.
It is addictive.
It's like a nicotine.

Kevin (48:32):
But you live in Florida, that's why.

Jordan (48:33):
Come live in the desert Alban, I give you one week in
the desert Holy cow.

Alban (48:39):
Totally agree.
You're right.
There's many, many places inthe world where chapstick is
needed.
Florida is not one of them.
Florida, the humidity is anatural chapstick, and then you
start using it and then yourlips dry out and you have to
keep reapplying and then youbecome one of those people who
carries a chapstick everywhere.

Kevin (48:55):
The good thing about chapstick is I'm convinced every
stick is a lifetime supply.
I'm convinced no one has everfully used an entire chapstick
they either leave it in theircar and it melts or they lose it
, but no one's ever just used itall the way up.

Jordan (49:08):
Oh man, it doesn't happen.
Well, I think I'm the firstperson, then, kevin.

Kevin (49:12):
You've used yours up.
You've kept one stick ofchapstick long enough to use it
all the way up.

Jordan (49:17):
Yeah.
So I have like differentchapsticks, like there's like
purse chapstick, living roomchapstick, kitchen chapstick,
I've got desk chapstick and allof them stay in their assigned
place and then when it runs outI go get a replacement for it
and it's like this EOS lip balmstuff.
That's really good and they'rekind of like expensive ones.

Kevin (49:36):
You're blowing my mind right now.

Alban (49:38):
Yeah, wait, is this community chapstick Jordan Like,
or is this?

Jordan (49:41):
personal.
No, this is personal.
How do?

Kevin (49:43):
you know, no one else uses your chapstick, yeah.

Jordan (49:45):
Cause my kids lips are chapped to all heck, and so I'm
trying to get them to use it andthey won't use it.
I know Josh has his ownchapstick, but that's like a
pocket chapstick.
We're heavy chapstick usershere, like you need to be.

Kevin (49:58):
Yeah, that's where I think I'm going wrong is I'm a.
I get one chapstick at a timeand then I try to take it where
I might need it and itinevitably disappears.

Jordan (50:06):
Yeah, that's why you lose it.
You got to invest in severalchapsticks and then they just
stay in place.

Kevin (50:11):
Maybe four to six applications of a chapstick
before it's gone.
Yeah, and then I have to go buya new chapstick.

Jordan (50:16):
You know, like Alban said, like you don't really need
that where you guys are at.

Kevin (50:19):
So but I need it now.
The only thing that concerns meputting on the mouth tape is if
I get a stuffy nose in themiddle of the night, what's
going to happen?

Alban (50:27):
You'll wake up within like 20 seconds and take the
mouth tape off.

Kevin (50:34):
I don't know if you will, because people who have sleep
apnea they stop breathing forlike a minute or more at a time.

Alban (50:36):
Yeah Well, I think sleep apnea is.
You're so sleep deprived thatyou end up sleeping through it,
and then you do wake up and thenyou restart breathing and then
you fall back asleep.

Kevin (50:44):
So what if I'm really tired and then I get a stuffy
nose in the middle of the night?
Then it's over.

Alban (50:49):
Then you would basically cause yourself to have sleep
apnea one night.
I mean, I've woken up with themouth tape and gone oh, this
isn't comfortable, and rip itoff in the middle of the night
and go back to sleep.

Kevin (50:59):
Do you want to hear all the potential benefits?
Yes, improved sleep obviouslyespecially beneficial for people
with mild sleep apnea.
I don't think I have that.
I used to but I don't think Ido anymore.
Reduce snoring that is truebecause I have a sleep snoring
app tracker thing and I barelysnore.
But if I do, it's been like oneor two minutes per night of
snoring and last two nightsthere's been zero minutes.

(51:21):
That's working.
Better oral health Mouth tapingcan prevent cavities and gum
disease by reducing dry mouth.
Bet you didn't know that Weird.
Improved oxygen intake Nasalbreathing can increase the
amount of oxygen you take inwhile you're sleeping.
Improved blood pressure Nasalbreathing can help regulate
blood pressure and improve sleepquality.
And reduce allergens, sincebreathing through your nose can

(51:43):
help filter out allergens anddust.

Alban (51:45):
I think some of these sound like being a total mouth
breather isn't great.
Yeah, if you have your mouthopen, going like a lab, that's
going to be a problem.
But I don't know if, like, doyou normally sleep with your
mouth open?
I guess maybe that's thequestion.

Kevin (52:00):
I don't know, maybe I should film myself while I sleep
.

Alban (52:03):
Well, I know that I don't .
I I don't think the mouth tapebothers me a whole lot.
I keep my mouth shut most ofthe time.

Kevin (52:10):
All right, well, take it or leave it, I'm on the tape.

Jordan (52:12):
You're on the tape, kevin's on the tape.