#165 Becoming a Backcountry Foodie with Aaron Owens

Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:21):
Welcome back to the Byland podcast.
My name is Emory.
Thank you so much for beinghere.
Welcome to Better Backpacking.
This is episode 165, and myguest today is Erin Owens,
otherwise known as the BackCountry Foodie.
Now, I started following Erinback in 2017 when she kicked off
her PCT hike and I have to sayit has been a pleasure watching

(00:41):
her become what she is.
She has carved out a nicelittle niche for herself as the
go-to foodie for all thingsbackpacking and specifically
through hiking, and the reasonErin is on the show today is
because I had a moment lastsummer where I was on a
backpacking trip, looking intomy food bag and thinking I have
got to do something different.

(01:02):
I was just bored of what I'dbeen eating and immediately Erin
popped into my head.
If you're not familiar withErin and what she does, she has
a massive passion for backcountry food and it is second to
none, and she just so happensto be a dietitian, so she has
the education to back upeverything that she's doing.

(01:25):
I promise you that you willleave this episode with a ton of
information, actionable thingsyou can put into your next food
bag on your next backpackingtrip.
But if, for some reason you'restill struggling with the back
country food thing, she's gotyou covered because she offers
meal planning and shippingservices.

(01:46):
That's right.
She will literally plan andpack your meals for you.
So all you have to do is put inyour order, have it delivered,
toss it in your backpack and gobackpacking.
How awesome is that?
Like I said, she's a foodiewhen it comes to back packing.
So if you're struggling, enjoyyour food in the back country.
She can help.
Please take a minute to go tothe show notes, check out the

(02:11):
links, go to a website and checkout all of the services she
offers.
There's recipes, there'sshipping services, there's all
kinds of stuff, and she enjoysdoing it.
So, yeah, I'm really excited tohave her on the podcast today
because, again, I'd like tolearn as well.
I don't know everything.
I want to get better, and Eringave me a ton of tips and

(02:33):
suggestions on how I can improvemy own meals in the back
country.
If you like the podcast and youlike what I'm doing here with
Byland and you want to help meout, you can do so in a few ways
.
First, if you or anyone youknow it's new to backpacking,
send them my way, because I havea beginner backpacking course
called Learn how To Backpackthat I designed specifically for
beginners.
It is very affordable, it'seasy to take, it's all online

(02:58):
and it will get people up andgoing quickly, easily, and just
get rid of all of that learningcurve that happens early on, so
you can kind of get out thereand enjoy the good parts sooner
rather than later.
So send them my way.
That would be awesome if youknow someone that is new to
backpacking.
Secondly, you can share thepodcast with a friend, a

(03:18):
colleague, or toss it on socialmedia.
That would be great.
And if you're feeling frisky,you can also donate to the show
through the link in the shownotes to help me pay for all the
things that go into producing apodcast.
There's subscriptions, there'shardware, software, all kinds of
stuff.
Even just a few bucks reallydoes go a long way.

(03:39):
So if you feel like you want todo that, you can donate to the
show.
But any of those options are agreat way to support the show
and I appreciate all of them.
To all of you that have donatedrecently or even in the past,
thank you.
I really, really appreciate it.
It really does mean a lot.
It's very encouraging thatsomeone put their own donation

(04:01):
into the podcast.
It just makes me want to domore of them, so thank you.
Thank you so much for yoursupport.
All right, please enjoy thisepisode with Aaron Owens.
Aaron, welcome to the podcast.

(04:29):
I'm really excited to have youon.
Yeah, thank you.

Speaker 2 (04:32):
I'm excited to be here.

Speaker 1 (04:33):
I believe or not.
I think maybe you know, I don'tknow.
I've actually followed yousince your PCT.
When was that Like 20, did yougo?

Speaker 2 (04:44):
2017?
Yeah, we're coming on six years.
Backcountry 50 is coming on sixyears, december 26.
So that was almost 70 years agothat I started the PCT.
I started my 40th birthdayMarch 26 of 17.

Speaker 1 (04:57):
What was the?
I have to know the backstory.
I love getting to know well,because here's the thing I feel
like the rest of thisconversation.
This is the launch pad for therest of the conversation.
I think, I could be wrong, butlike at least for me, I found
you when you were hiking the PCTand you were into food then.
But like I don't know yourbackstory on how you got to the

(05:18):
PCT, I had a midlife crisis,okay, so I turned 40 in.
January.

Speaker 2 (05:26):
Maybe that's is that, when it happens, I was turning
40 and was miserable at work.
I lived in Seattle at the timeand my commute it turned into
what were you doing for work?
I've been a clinical dieticianmy entire career, so at the time
I'd been already 16 years as aclinical dietician Got it.
I'm living in Seattle, two hourcommute each way, so I would
get up at four to get to work ateight and then you get home

(05:49):
when it's dark.
I'm too tired to exercise.
So it was just this awful cycle.
I, you know, I had the house, Ihad the car, I had the
relationship, I had all thethings good job that you're
supposed to have.
But I was still miserable.
And then I started making reallybad life decisions that my
friends are picking up on in myfamily, one being this is a good
story I met a guy.

(06:10):
This was before I met my nowhusband, but I met a guy online.
He was a rock climber in thePhilippines and never met him,
flew to the Philippines, hikedaround, climbed with him for a
week and then we went to Balifor a week and then, luckily, I
didn't die and he didn't doanything to me and came home and
was like, okay, I really got todo something because that was a
really bad life decision.

(06:31):
So that's when I decided like,what am I going to do with
myself.
So I quit my job and decided Iwas going to hike the PCT
because I figured five months isplenty of time to figure out,
like, what is going on right nowand then give me time to think
about what am I going to do nextand that's when the backcountry
foodie thing started is that Ihad been a long distance trail
runner at the time so and I wasreally struggling keeping weight

(06:54):
on because running four toeight hours at a time, I had to
eat a ton of food.
So I knew that if I wasstruggling to keep weight on
doing that many miles one day aweek, I'm going to keep the
weight on doing 20 miles a dayfor, you know, five months
straight.
So I started kind of panickingabout that because at the time
I'd only hiked up to five dayswas my longest hike ever and you

(07:15):
probably, like you, knew toomuch Like you knew?
Yeah, I knew Right.

Speaker 1 (07:20):
You knew too much Like a lot of people go into
these hikes and they're like mehyeah no, I had already.

Speaker 2 (07:26):
It was like, okay, I can't afford mountain house
because it's too bulky, it's tooexpensive.
And then I'd never made DIYbackpacking food.
So I started reading cookbooksand looking into all those
things and then again, being thedietitian knowing too much, I
was like these don't have enoughcarbs, this doesn't have enough
protein, this doesn't haveenough XYZ.
Okay, now what do I do?

(07:46):
So I just started tinkering inthe kitchen, taking those
available recipes, making theminto what I needed them to do,
and then I also learned aboutultra light.
I'd never heard about ultralight backpacking.
I was somebody that carried a35 pound pack.

Speaker 1 (08:00):
And again.

Speaker 2 (08:00):
I was like I can't carry this thing because I
packed everything up like Inormally was, like this is
really heavy, like I got toknock some of this out.
So that's where also the ultralight food idea came in, as I
tinkered everything's in thecomputer software so it's very
nerdy, very numbers oriented andtinkered around enough to get
recipes as small as possible, asmuch nutrition as possible.
And then that's what I did.

(08:22):
I made 450 pounds of food, fivemonths worth of food before I
left and just took off on thetrail.
And then people what was kindof funny, I'd never had an
Instagram account before.
So this is like totally new tome, the social media thing, as I
was a preceptor for students atthe hospital.
They're like oh Aaron, you'vetotally got to get on Instagram,

(08:43):
you got to share this withpeople.
And then that's kind of how, asI went on my hike, I was
starting to get direct messageslike where are you?
Did you leave any food in thehiker box, like I'm totally into
this.
And then it just went on fromthere.
And we're now six years later.
Now I have an online have arecipe platform, a nutrition
coaching, a resupply service,and we just opened a shop for

(09:05):
backpacking food three weeks ago, four weeks ago now.

Speaker 1 (09:08):
So where's the shop?
Where's the shop?

Speaker 2 (09:11):
That's an online shop , a Shopify.
Okay, got it Cool.
It'll soon be physical because.
I'm out growing my house.
Yeah, I was gonna say where?

Speaker 1 (09:21):
where are you going to set up shop at?
On the physical location?

Speaker 2 (09:26):
So we're currently in my commercial kitchen.
I just got my commercialkitchen license is in San Luis,
the Vismo, California, so I'mlooking for more in Orchid,
California is where we live.
So somewhere between here andthere I'm going to look for some
retail space and have my ownkitchen and shop.

Speaker 1 (09:43):
I love slow.

Speaker 2 (09:45):
Yeah, it's nice.
It's so nice to do it.
I found the perfect littleplace that I'm really hoping I
can get into.

Speaker 1 (09:52):
Oh my gosh, san Luis, the Vismo.
I've gone there so many timesfor work and I just every time I
go there I'm like it almostfeels like a second home.
I drive through them like theseold homes, the towns, cute,
it's like just, oh man, thatwhole area.
But the whole area is like very, very nice, especially if you

(10:13):
like wine.

Speaker 2 (10:14):
Oh, that too.
Well, and we're an hour to themountains.
I mean there's, we're close tothe beach or close to the
mountains.
I mean everything's right hereand it's after living in Seattle
the commute it takes me 10minutes to get anywhere Instead
of two hours.
So I really I never thought Iwould like California, but I've
really fallen in love with theCentral Coast.

Speaker 1 (10:32):
Oh for sure, and it's very funny.
I live in Portland or rightacross the river from Portland,
and I feel like it's very notthat they're the same, but the
idea of that you're kind ofcentrally located.
You can go do a lot ofdifferent things.
Interesting.
How did you were you intobackpacking at the time Was
through hiking on your radar atthis time?

Speaker 2 (10:52):
It had been on my radar for a while.
It's something that I wanted todo.
I don't think I thought aboutit as intensely as I did when I
was like I really need to dosomething Again.
I started backpacking in 2001.
And I'll never forget that veryfirst trip.
Blue jeans long sleeve cottonshirt and a RAI backpack that
didn't fit and mountaineeringboots.

Speaker 1 (11:14):
It was awful, all the things you just don't do so.

Speaker 2 (11:22):
Yeah, I'd already been backpacking, but, like I
said, three to five days was themost.
I'd ever done so this was, andI'd actually asked for the time
off and my boss said you can'ttake the time off.
So I was like, well, I'm outthen, Because I'm pretty unhappy
and I'm too young to be unhappy.
So I'm going to do this andI'll just figure it out when I
get back.

Speaker 1 (11:42):
How did that did it?
What'd you do when you got back?
See, I don't know what happenedafter you got back.

Speaker 2 (11:48):
So well, I ended up getting injured early on.
I hurt my shoulder, so then Iwent home and rehabbed.
I was like, okay, I quit my job, I have five months worth of
food left.
Now what do I do?
So I jumped on that place ontrail and then I jumped on the
AT and midway at Harper's Ferrybecause that's where the bubble
is starting to hit and then theAT and the PCT hiking are

(12:08):
totally different.
So I was in PCT kind of shapeand not AT.
So I ended up tearing my quadmuscle 500 miles in on the AT
and then that was kind of theend of the season 2017.
And then, because people werestill really excited about the
foodie thing, I was like, okay,now what do I do?
I decided to write a cookbookin 2018 when I got back, and

(12:29):
then I don't like to write andkind of the cookbook.
I didn't like that, which iswhy we have the online platform
now, as I like to share, as Icreate.
I didn't want to have to create, hold on to everything like two
other recipes, and then I sharethem kind of thing for paper,
for cookbook purposes.
So that's why we transition tothe online platform that we have

(12:49):
today.

Speaker 1 (12:50):
Oh cool, wow, I didn't, so you didn't bring any.
You made all of your own foodthat year.

Speaker 2 (12:58):
I'll never do five months in advance again, but yes
, I made all my own food.
I haven't eaten and I haven'tmade a pre-made meal since then.

Speaker 1 (13:08):
I've made all my food for the last six, seven years.

Speaker 2 (13:11):
So when people ask well, can you recommend like a
commercial meal, I can't becauseI haven't eaten one?
I have no idea.

Speaker 1 (13:17):
Wow, that's incredible.
See, here's the thing.
So the reason why I wanted tochat with you is one I think a
lot of people.
I find that it's like gear andit's food that people struggle
with.
It's like dialing in their gearand I would say that, like, the
gear thing is easily solvable.
I mean that's easily fixable.

(13:40):
The food thing not so much.
And I have horror stories in mypast with not eating the right
food and then my diet on the PCT.
I struggled for the like mostpeople struggle for the first
couple hundred miles trying tofigure out like what the heck is
my body Like?
I was just bonk all the time.
I mean, I remember one time Iwas I just took a break and I

(14:06):
just had just eaten lunch.
We get up and we're on themiddle, in the middle of a hill.
I start hiking and like five or10 minutes later I was like
like just bonking right.
It's like what the heck is wrongwith me?
And I took a break eight to poptarts.
And then it was like I wasright as rain and I started

(14:28):
going but I didn't know what washappening.
And then I mean, I know, thisis horrible.
I've talked to Kyle, my buddy,about this as well, but for me
pastries just forced me up thetrail Like I did.

Speaker 2 (14:41):
the junk food.

Speaker 1 (14:42):
Yeah, I just did the junk food diet.
I caved and I felt the besteating that kind of stuff.
It was terrible for my teeth.
I had a lot of cavities at theend of the trail, oh gosh, but
that was like my.
That's what ended up workingfor me.
On the trail, I hit a wall thislast year where I was like I

(15:10):
don't want to do this anymore,like I just like my.
I was just I've been eating thesame stuff all the time and I
know what my body needs.
But like I think I'm just inthe different mindset, like I'm
starting to take my little girlsbackpacking, I'm doing weekend
trips and more like enjoyable,not trying to crush miles, type
food type trips.
So I need food that goes alongwith that.

(15:33):
Like I want to, I guess, eat,when I say better, I want to eat
, I want to eat, taste your foodand different food.
So and I think a lot of peopleare in the same boat Like they
just eat the same things all thetime.
Do you, did you ever strugglewith that, or did you?
Or do you struggle with eatingthe same stuff all the time, or

(15:54):
do you have a diverse menu thatyou eat from?

Speaker 2 (15:56):
Actually, this is the one thing I like to focus on
and like you're saying you'reeating pop, tarts and those
kinds of things is I try toencourage people to continue
what you normally eat at homeinto the back country, because
that's what you're used tometabolizing, you're used to
getting those energy sources,the fiber sources and those kind
of things.
So that's why my recipes arejust regular food.
They're just regular pastas orregular bean dips, they're

(16:18):
regular hummus, they're justsomething you would normally eat
at home but they're in a dryform.
So then you feel you don't feellike you're eating something
that's totally different.
Which is kind of going back towhat you're saying a second ago,
is that I also like to treat orteach people to think of
yourself as an athlete, becausethat's what I've noticed with my
coaching customers is that theywill look at their home diet

(16:40):
and then look at their hikingdiet.
Is that their hiking diet willbe less food than what they
normally eat at home.
So we do a lot of let's look atwhat you normally do and then
we boost on top of that.
So once people kind of changetheir mindset that I am an
athlete, what other?
I like to think of it this wayas a sport.
What other sport do you carry aheavy backpack, you're doing 10
to 15 miles a day.
You're sleeping on the ground,you know.

(17:01):
You're doing an inclementweather, you're doing elevation
change, I don't know.
I mean even triathletes.
They get to go home and eat apasta dinner, you know that kind
of thing.
So I think it's just a mindsetchange to fuel, use food as fuel
and then try to eat justregular things.
So yeah, as for repeating, Idon't really I have a problem
with repeating because I getbored with food, so I like to

(17:22):
eat lots of different things allthe time.
So does that answer yourquestion?
Yeah, I mean.

Speaker 1 (17:26):
I just want to be able to look in my bag and be
like, oh cool, this is like.
I don't want to eat forsustenance, I want to eat.
I just want to.
I'm like yeah, I want to enjoywhat I'm eating, but I but I
don't personally know how to dothat.
So, going back to the eatingwhat you eat at home and going
and then doing that on trial, Iwill say that that sounds very

(17:50):
familiar because I think a lotof people separate the two
things and they're like this iswhat I eat in the back country
and this is what I eat at home.
I mean, I do that myself.
Do you have examples orguidance on how to reframe your
mind for people Like I don'tknow how to explain this, but a
lot of times, even after the PCT, I find myself when I'm gearing

(18:13):
up for a backpacking trip.
I'm like I don't even knowwhere I'm supposed to start,
like I'm losing.
I sometimes I lose track of, andit's embarrassing because you'd
think by now I would have itdown.
But that's like super.
What I have down is very onedimensional.
I want to like expand it out.
So when you're getting readyfor a backpacking trip or when

(18:36):
someone's getting ready, whereshould they start?
What's like a good startingpoint for that.

Speaker 2 (18:41):
It's actually not as complicated as you think.

Speaker 1 (18:44):
I try to really simplify.

Speaker 2 (18:45):
I really try to simplify things so it doesn't
feel so overwhelming.
So, going back to the what youeat at home, translating into
the back country so if you tendto eat cold cereal in the
morning at home, then do likebran flakes and everything's dry
, and that's the other thing Itry to do is everything's just
dry ingredients based.
I don't do a lot of makingfresh and dehydrating because
we're all busy, we don't havetime to do that.

Speaker 1 (19:06):
Right.

Speaker 2 (19:07):
So an example would be whatever like your cold
cereal, if you do a bran flakesor something and then do some
sort of milk powder whetheryou're vegan, you use almond
powder, soy, milk powder, dairypowder and then a boost it.
This is where the extranutrition comes from.
As a hiker is add some pecans,add some walnuts, add some
raisins, add some coconut, addsome extra something to give it

(19:27):
a little more of a boost, andthen you just have a normal
breakfast.
Just add water, eat it with aspoon, you're done.
I particularly fond of yogurtparfaits at home.
I eat yogurt, berries andgranolas for my normal breakfast
.
So you use freeze dried yogurtwhich you can get in the baby
food aisle they're just littlebaby yogurt mounds and then I
crush them up and add water andit turns right into yogurt, Put

(19:48):
a little bit of granola in thereand some berries and then
you've got like a normalbreakfast.
So similar kind of thing.
Like I love, hummus is what Inormally have.
Pretzels and hummus is like aregular lunch for me at home.
So there's actually I'm goingto give a shout out to mother of
products.
They have an amazing hummus mix.
It's just add water, add alittle bit of olive oil, dip it

(20:08):
with pretzels and there's thelunch.
I mean super duper easy.

Speaker 1 (20:12):
And what about like caloric intake, like that
breakfast, like a breakfastparfait, or this, the other one
you mentioned?
I know a lot of people areobsessed with calories and you
mentioned like a boost.
Is that where you're talkingabout?
Like the boost in calories?
Right?

Speaker 2 (20:29):
So that's going from your normal breakfast to, like,
your hiking.
So you need to eat more whenyou're hiking backpacking than
you do at home.
So it's kind of like start withmy normal home and then add
more to it.
Ok, and as for how manycalories, we actually spend an
entire year building a caloriecalculator.
I don't know if I mentionedthis when we were chatting
before.

Speaker 1 (20:48):
No, no, no.

Speaker 2 (20:49):
So I was super frustrated with the calorie
calculators online because theyproduce horrible estimations,
being that there's so manyvariables, like I was mentioning
before your backpack weight,your type of trail that you're
on, the elevation, the altitude,the temperature, and then a lot
of the capric.
Later, excuse me, you also haveto think about your base of

(21:09):
metal ball.
Great, we're going to get alittle nerdy here.

Speaker 1 (21:12):
Let's do it, let's start out.

Speaker 2 (21:14):
Men are different than women.
A five foot two person isdifferent from a six foot two
person.
One hundred twenty pound personis different from a two hundred
twenty five pound person, sothose aren't taken into account
in a lot of the onlinecalculators.
So we built one that has 14variables.
It is like every possiblevariable that you can think of
and it took us an entire year tobuild out the algorithm to mesh

(21:35):
all those together.
And it's a free resource on awebsite.
So and I've checked it againstall my trips and it's spot on to
what I've used before.
So I really believe in that.
The number that's estimated isaccurate.
So that's kind of a resourcewe're trying to really get
people to use.
So you don't have to thinkabout the calories.
Yeah Well, I had an algorithmspecialist, as much smarter when

(21:58):
it comes to calculus and thosekind of things.

Speaker 1 (22:01):
But yeah, another dietician and I've read all the
research that's out there.

Speaker 2 (22:06):
It's based on military equations, the Olympic
Committee, elite athletes, so wejust meshed all these different
equations that are out therefrom the research.
It's not me just making upnumbers, right?
And then, yeah, my algorithmguy plugged in Because it would
have taken me a half an hour todo this math.
I mean it's just crazy math.
And then we had a plug in guybuild it for us.
So, yeah, it took a team offour to make it happen, but it

(22:29):
did take us an entire year towork out all the kinks and make
sure everything jives and itprovided an estimate that was
accurate.
So how does it work?

Speaker 1 (22:38):
So if I wanted to use the calculator to find out my,
to find out my caloric needs forwhat I'm doing, what's my input
?

Speaker 2 (22:49):
So it goes through your height, your age, your
weight, your backpack weight,what distance you're covering.
And here's another key thingthat the other calculators don't
do is is it a day hike or anovernight trip?
Because a lot of the online,because a day hike is the
calories are while you'reactively hiking, so that could
be three hours, five hours, Anovernight trip.
You're burning calories whileyou're sleeping.

(23:10):
You're burning calories whileyou're sitting in camp.
So there's a significantdifference from how many
calories you're burning whileyou're physically moving versus
a 24 hour time period.
So that's where I was findingsignificant.
Oh yeah.

Speaker 1 (23:23):
When you yeah, I mean just because you're burning
calories.

Speaker 2 (23:26):
You're burning calories, I mean just being
alive.
For me is 1500 calories.
So if the calculator only doeslike 2000 calories while I'm
actively moving, I'm alreadydeficient 1500 because it didn't
take in what I need to justbreathe in my heart to pump.

Speaker 1 (23:43):
Oh dude, what Wait?
Okay, so these othercalculators are only calculating
daytime activity, like activityburn not like.
Here's your, what your bodyburns up, just being alive in 24
hours Right.
Oh, I didn't know.
Huge difference.

Speaker 2 (23:59):
So that's where I was seeing that hikers were relying
on these calculator outputs.
But there's like it's not rightand most people don't know what
I know about knowing to add onextra calories for your basal
metabolic rate.
You know, just being alive, howare you?

Speaker 1 (24:15):
able to achieve.
So, okay, do you have a like aperson like me?
I'm like I'm 40, like five,eight, 160.
If I go on a 30, like a fire,20 miles a day, generally, is
that.
I mean, is there like a roundestimate of how much I would

(24:36):
need?

Speaker 2 (24:37):
It's all because every hiker is different, your
body types are different, yourage is different, the terrain is
different and just being a lotof people don't know this just
standing at altitude above12,000 feet, your basal
metabolic rate, just to live,increases by 30%.
Just standing there, juststanding there.

Speaker 1 (24:55):
What is?
What happens when our bodiesdon't reach this like calorie?
What happens when we'redeficient?

Speaker 2 (25:01):
I should say that's when you hit the wall like
you're talking about.
That's when you run out ofenergy.
You start getting cranky orhangry.
I know myself well enough towhere I start stumbling because
my legs start getting reallywobbly, and my husband knows now
too that he's like you'restarting to stumble, you're
tripping, you need to stop andeat something.
So I've learned what my bodydoes when I'm not eating enough.

(25:21):
And then you're just riskinggetting especially if you're
doing some mountaineering things, if you're starting to get like
really depleted, you're riskinggetting injured.
And I actually have a storywhere I fell off the side of the
mountain and landed on a treelimb and then paled my leg and
had to quit my trip early and goto the emergency room and get
stitches.
I was too focused on hiking andhaving a good time and didn't

(25:44):
eat, and then I just depletedmyself and, off the side of the
mountain, I went into a tree.

Speaker 1 (25:50):
Does calorie deficiency hit people different?
Everyone?
Does everyone look differenthow it hits?

Speaker 2 (25:55):
them.

Speaker 1 (25:55):
Everybody's a little different.
Yeah, like mental fog orphysical impacts, right, some
people get really, really cranky.

Speaker 2 (26:01):
I physically get the jello leg.
So everybody kind of gets alittle bit different, something
different.
Some people get headaches, soit's just kind of noticing.
And that's what I found when Ifirst started hiking is that I
thought it just sucked Like Ithought you're just cranky, I
thought I just heard it all thetime, you know, I thought it was
just this.
But once I started focusing onfeeding myself, that went away

(26:21):
and then I enjoyed the hike more, because then I was like okay,
I'm sore because this is areally hard climb, not because
my body's mad at me, because Ihaven't put enough fuel in it.

Speaker 1 (26:31):
Man, I feel like people need to know that that
was like one of the first.

Speaker 2 (26:36):
That's why I have a job.

Speaker 1 (26:38):
I mean that's one of the things I try to.
I mean that's why I starteddoing what I do, because I'm
like, once I realize thatbackpacking doesn't suck, like
the hard part about backpackingshould be the physical portion,
the physical exertion yeah thephysical exertion, or, oh, I'm
mentally challenging myself.
If it's not that, like youshouldn't have pain from your

(27:03):
backpack, you shouldn't be angryand like no energy.
Those are all fixable problemsand the cool thing is about that
like it's not uncomfortable,it's not painful.

Speaker 2 (27:15):
It doesn't have to be that way.
It doesn't have to be Exactly.

Speaker 1 (27:18):
We need to talk right and you're just going at it
from the food standpoint, whichis so huge because my first real
backpacking trip.
I do this annual trip aroundHelens, so it's like 30 miles,
and the first time I did it itwas my.
I would say that it was myfirst real backpacking trip and

(27:41):
because it was a few days ofsustained back.
It was supposed to be a fewdays of sustained backpacking,
but we ended up doing it in twodays and I'd never done that
before.

Speaker 2 (27:49):
And that's a tough hike.
I know that one.
Yeah, it's not, it's fairlytough right.

Speaker 1 (27:53):
Yeah, for some reason it's like 30 miles that are.
It's just hard on the body.
For some reason the trailconditions are kind of rough.
There's not quality trail butit's just kind of rugged and I
did it.
I agreed to do it in two daysand I didn't eat much for the
first.
I was trying to keep up withthe guy that I was hiking with

(28:14):
and I didn't set myself on aschedule to eat.
I didn't stop myself and so andI wasn't eating and I wasn't
drinking, and it all caught upto me at like 10 miles and I was
by then I was so far gone.

Speaker 2 (28:32):
It takes hours to recover.

Speaker 1 (28:34):
Yeah, I couldn't eat.
You know the feeling whereyou're like I can't physically
eat anything.
We had five more miles to go.
I was basically begging thisguy like I need to stop crawled
into my tent and just pretendedI didn't exist.
I couldn't eat anything and hewas totally fine.

(28:56):
I don't remember what he wasdoing eating or drinking or
anything but I just had not fedmy body and it was 10 miles of
pretty rugged country and I wasDone.
It was done.
I was cooked.
He gave me some tea and thathelped with my appetite to where

(29:19):
I was able to eat a meal and goback to sleep.
I'll never forget that trip.
I learned my lesson and then,going fast forward to the PCT, I
just put myself on.
I'm the guy that I have to eatevery hour Something.
I have to eat something everyhour.
It doesn't need to be a fullmeal, but I need like a couple
hundred calories every hour, itappears, and that's the way it
should be Every 60 to 90 minutes.

Speaker 2 (29:40):
If you're actively hiking, then you should be at
least nibbling on something,Because it only takes one to
three hours to completelydeplete your carbohydrate stores
in your body.
So, depending on the intensityof what you're doing, it could
only be 60 minutes and thenyou're done.
Or if it's a less intense hike,then you've got about three
hours' worth of stored energyand then you're going to be done
.

Speaker 1 (29:59):
And one of what you're talking about.

Speaker 2 (30:01):
your situation is I'm a solo hiker.
Now Because of that reason isthat I have to follow schedule,
so I might hike with somebodyand I'm like I got to stop and
take a break, eat my snack, youcan keep going, I'll catch up
with you, kind of thing, becauseI learned my lesson.
Similar situation is trying tokeep up with people not
following my schedule and youfeel terrible.

Speaker 1 (30:21):
The peer pressure of hiking.
It's terrible, it is the worstthing ever, because you feel
like you need to keep going.
When I go with someone, if I'mhiking and I know that I'm more
in shape or I'm better equipped,I make sure that I check in
with that person all the timeand we're not going further than

(30:43):
what we need to be.
And I'm just like I'm eatingright now, like we're doing this
Like sorry, and I'm the sameway like.
I'd much rather hike alone,because I perform way better
hiking alone.

Speaker 2 (30:55):
Well, and I follow my own pace too.
That's what happened on the ATis that I met this amazing trail
family and it was like I got tohustle, hustle, hustle because
I want to keep up with them, butthen I pushed myself so hard
that I tore my quad muscle.
So now I actually enjoy myhikes a lot more because I'm not
hustling and I've just becomemore comfortable with being by
myself, which, being a female,it's harder because we're

(31:17):
worried about critters, men, allthose kind of things.
So I think a lot more women areat more risk of this happening
because they want to keep upwith somebody if they don't
necessarily feel as comfortablebeing by themselves.

Speaker 1 (31:29):
You know it's funny.
I'm actually wrapping up.
I'm writing a solo backpackingcourse to help people push past
that barrier and it's more oflike a personal development
course over more than anythingelse.
Like there's no skills involvedwith solo backpacking for the
most part.
Like if you can go backpacking,you can do it by yourself.

(31:50):
You can go by yourself but thegetting to that point of like
being okay, being alone outthere takes some work.
So I've, like it's called, sixweeks to solo backpacking that's
what I'm going to launch it as,and it's literally just like
exposure therapy, like to theoutdoors and then get to that

(32:12):
place because backpacking aloneis really, really fun.

Speaker 2 (32:18):
And it's free.
And it's like you get anotification for me.

Speaker 1 (32:24):
I mean, backpacking with people is fun too, but
there's something differentabout going alone.
It's empowering, and you canjust.
I remember the first time Iever hiked alone, by myself.
I remember thinking I was likeoh, I can do anything I want, I
can stop here, or I don't haveto stop here to Lake for as long
as you want.

Speaker 2 (32:42):
You can push up and over as long as you can stop,
for you know dinner whenever youwant.
Go to bed as early as you want.

Speaker 1 (32:47):
Yeah, it's so fun.
What are your thoughts on thejunk food diet as a dietitian?

Speaker 2 (32:57):
I think it's more age related.
Younger people can get awaywith it because they're able to
recover easier.
They've got more energy.
I've even just noticed in thelast five years I need to really
pay attention to what I eat.
I don't recover nearly as wellif I eat the junk food diet.
That's also not what I normallyeat on a regular day.
My body freaks out like what isall this sugar?

(33:18):
Where's the extra protein, thecar, these kinds of things you
normally function on?
For me personally, it doesn'twork very well.
I've just noticed that with mycustomers too.
The older hikers do a lotbetter when they pay more
attention to it.
Younger hikers, you can usuallyget away with it.
I've noticed it be more agerelated.

Speaker 1 (33:39):
When you say that one of the things I was curious
about you mentioned theimportance of keeping your
day-to-day diet andtransitioning that to the field.
Can you expand on why that'simportant or what happens to
your body when you all of asudden just shift your diet?
I would imagine it's similar toif you travel and all of a
sudden you're now eating food inthe airport or on the road and

(34:03):
something changes in your body.
I think people notice that intheir bodies as well, but I
don't really know what'shappening.
Can you go down that rabbithole for us?

Speaker 2 (34:12):
Junk food diet and I also believe no food is a bad
food.
That's the thing too is I dohave my snickers, I do have my
gummy bears, I do have thosethings.
When I consider junk food diet,I think of that as a whole
picture.
You're consistently eating lotsof processed sugars, which will
give you, like you're saying,your pop tarts.
It gives you an energy boost,but a lot of those don't have

(34:34):
the complex carbohydrates whichactually level out that energy
for a longer period of time.
A lot of the simple sugar foodsdon't have the protein.
That's also going to even outthat, because protein takes
longer to digest than simplesugars just being like cane
sugar, those simple corn syrup,those kind of things that are in
a lot of processed foods.
So the protein will slow downyour digestion, give your energy

(34:57):
a longer time period and also,again being an older person, I
just recover better because I'musing my muscles and I just need
that to feel better the nextday.
The other thing a lot ofprocessed foods don't have fiber
.
So if you're used to eatingfruits and veggies, salads,
those kind of fresh fruit inyour daily diet I'm a dietitian

(35:17):
I'm not worried about talkingabout poop, but you could have
bowel problems.

Speaker 1 (35:21):
I mean, when we say something shifts, I would say,
90 people get backed up.

Speaker 2 (35:27):
Yeah, Like that's when everyone complains about it
.

Speaker 1 (35:31):
Yeah, that's what everyone complains about is like
they just get backed up.

Speaker 2 (35:35):
Yep, and then the opposite can happen too.
So a lot of hikers that I foundwant to be ultra light hikers,
so they really focus on usingolive oil being the most
chlorically dense food possible.
So they douse everything inolive oil that can actually make
you really loose.
So if you suddenly go to thesuper high-fat diet that you're
not used to, you have theopposite problem, so you can

(35:56):
have really loose stools insteadof getting backed up.
So that's something I recommendpeople do is like, don't jump
into the super high-fat diet ifthat's not something you're used
to doing.
Just kind of slowly ramp it upif that's what you want to use
to add some more calories toyour diet.

Speaker 1 (36:09):
So that's why it's important to like is it hard on
your body to do that, to makethat transition if you go from
daily food to just yourbackpacking food being
drastically different, is ithard on your body?

Speaker 2 (36:24):
I made that mistake on the PCT the first week
because I was focused so much ongetting all these calories in
and adding olive oil before I'ddone this whole new diet thing.
And I mean I did, I got reallyloose stools and I'm like what
is going on?
You know, this is not my norm.
So, for me it happened withinthe first couple of days and
again, I think everybody'sdifferent and to the degree that

(36:46):
you change your diet, I thinkit's going to make a difference
too.
So if you go from eating reallycomplex carbs whole grains, you
know those things fruits andveggies, to suddenly sour patch
kids you know gummy bears, youknow Pop Tarts, all those things
that are significantlydifferent, you'll probably
notice a lot sooner Then.
If you just don't want to PopTarts for breakfast but you
still eat like tortillas withsome other things at lunch that

(37:07):
have similar things to whatyou're used to.
If you're used to eating peanutbutter and jelly for lunch, you
know that kind of thing, so on.

Speaker 1 (37:14):
So the junk food.
Am I understanding thiscorrectly that you approach it
as more of like a?
Would you use junk food like aSnickers as like a tool in your
food?
Like to as like a?
Ok, I need a quick shot ofsugar and energy, but I also
need to level it out.
With what.
Would you level it out withLike, if you?

(37:36):
Eat a Snickers for how wouldyou employ a Snickers, I guess?

Speaker 2 (37:40):
And I also believe in happy foods, so there's times
where I like to have this iswhere I just know makes me happy
If I'm having a really crappyday on trail.
Snickers always make me happyand licorice is my go to.
So if I'm really struggling andI just need a quick energy
boost, like licorice is my go tothat.
I know I need to follow that upwith something better well, not

(38:01):
better, but with complex carbs,that kind of thing because
licorice is going to give methat boost to like I'm really
struggling and I'm not quite tothe top of the climb.
I'll pop one of those, but thatenergy might be depleted by the
time I get there.
And now you have to go backdown.
So this is where I was sayinggoing down, I don't need wobbly
legs going down the other side,I need to have my legs strong,
otherwise I'm going to gotumbling down.

(38:22):
So I think, like you said, Ithink there's a purpose, a
reason to use those anddifferent timing to use those
Snickers.
I believe it's actually a goodfood because it's carbs, protein
and fat all in one.
So I don't feel like it's a badfood and if you have a smile on
your face, then I think it'stotally fine.

Speaker 1 (38:41):
So when do you?
So, if you're going to eat aSnickers, when do you eat it?
And then what do you do?
You eat it with something.

Speaker 2 (38:49):
It's usually my kind of set aside food that when I'm
really struggling and I needenergy it's kind of like my set
aside food.
That just kind of lives.
It's a part of my like myemergency kit.
You know, like I'm reallystruggling, I need a boost or
I'm just really cranky and Iknow this is going to make me
happy, so it's just kind of oneof those things I set aside to
have when I need it.

Speaker 1 (39:13):
Walk me through.
You make these food bags, forwhich I want to get to here in a
minute, but when you make mealplans for people, can you give
me a general outline of likewhat a day of food looks like,
because I think a lot of peoplelike me A lot of times I just

(39:34):
need some ideas on like what?
What are some ideas that I canput in my bag that make sense
for backpack?
And one of the things Iappreciate about you is that you
have this dietitian background.
You understand that weight isimportant.
You also like to eat food andyou know you like to just you
like to taste things and yourrecipes, the things you put out,

(39:58):
I'm like like I remember I sawthe whole yogurt parfait thing
and I was like, what the heck?
How have I never like, how haveI never thought about this
stuff?
You know what I mean it's like.
But once you see it, I rememberreading some of your recipes I
was like, oh, that makes totalsense, but I can't get my brain
there because I'm not like afood person, right?
So when you build out like aday's worth of food for someone,

(40:21):
can you give me like a generalfeel for what you're doing what
that looks like like breakfastsnacks, lunch, dinner and the
snacks in between, and how you,why you have it that way?

Speaker 2 (40:32):
Well, and one of the things I think is really
important too is all my mealplans are customized.
I don't like to share mealplans on our website, because
you know what time you wake upis different from your partner.
You know what time you like totake a break, what time you some
people don't like to eatbreakfast, still have their
coffee and then start eating.
So all my meal plans arecompletely customized based on
what your hiking strategy islike, what your day looks like,

(40:56):
so each meal plan could lookvery different Right now.
Right now, I'm working with agal that's going to do the AT.
She doesn't like eating a lotin the morning, so she has
coffee which has zero caloriesin it, so we're actually going
to switch it to.
And I don't know if you knowabout my meal replacement drinks
.
I believe heavily in them.

Speaker 1 (41:14):
I remember hearing about them yeah.

Speaker 2 (41:15):
Yeah.
So essentially what they are isthey're some sort of milk based
.
There's some sort of protein inthere, the carb, so it's kind
of this full meal in a shake,eight ounces or so.
You get all your nutrition,carbs and everything.
So they work really well whenyou're not hungry or if you just
need a quick thing on the go.
So what we're going to do forher is have like a half serving

(41:36):
in the morning, because shelikes to eat lunch or eat
breakfast about an hour aftershe gets going.
And her breakfast she loveseating cereal at home.
So we're going to do one ofthose cereal combinations.
So cereal could it could be acold cereal.
If you like to cook, it couldbe an oatmeal, and this is what
I see a lot of hikers doing.
It's just a packet of oatmealthat's like a hundred calories.
That's not going to sustain you.

(41:57):
So do oats at some kind of milkbase, add nuts, coconut
Coconut's kind of my go-tosecret weapon.
It's tons of calories but itdoesn't add a lot of flavor and
then dried fruit in there.
So you go from a hundredcalorie packet to a 600 calorie
meal and it's not hard.
They're all just normal thingsyou get at the grocery store and
then, like we were talkingabout so, then, the next thing

(42:18):
about how many hours in betweenyour breakfast meal and your
lunch and we talked about eatingevery six to 90 minutes.
So insert snacks in between andthen that could be whether it's
a handful of nuts, a bar, youknow, a gel, if you need like a
quick boost.
I don't know goldfish.
I love teas.
It's it's kind of my junk food,but I love them because they're
salty and they're crunchy, theyhigh in calorie.

Speaker 1 (42:40):
Yeah, I think there are 130,000 people in the
country who are eating.

Speaker 2 (42:44):
Don't quote me, but I think they're about 130
calories per ounce.
Pita chips are really good to.
Plantain chips are actuallyanother awesome one.
I use those as almost like anelectrolyte supplement too,
because they've got tons ofpotassium, tons of sodium on
them you know, and there arelots of carbs.
There's fat in there.
So that's part of my ultralight planning is every bite of
food has all macronutrients init carbs, protein and fat, so

(43:10):
every.
If you can maximize every bite,then you actually eat less food
.
So an example I'm kind ofgetting off on another no, no,
no, keep going, keep going.
So I'm like ingesting all ofthem.

Speaker 1 (43:19):
I'm trying to like okay, cool, this is like a read.
Food is the thing that I haveto.
I have to like continuallyteach myself about.

Speaker 2 (43:27):
So what I noticed?
You know there's a kind oftypical hiker um tortilla, tuna
and something else, whatever youadd in there.
So the tortillas, your goodsource of carbs, the tuna is
your source of protein and,let's say, maybe you put some
mayonnaise in there, make itkind of like a tuna salad thing.
Yeah, you have three differentthings you have to eat and
they're fairly heavy versus ifyou were to eat something like.

(43:49):
I say this in all my podcasts Ilove quinoa because there's
carbs, protein and fat in everysingle bite, so you can actually
eat a smaller volume of foodand get the nutrition you need.
It weighs less, takes up lessspace and has more fiber.
You know those kind of things,instead of having to pack three
different things to get thatkind of nutrition.
Um, so that's where I call it.

(44:09):
Combination foods is kind of mywhat I call it, what I call for
.
That that makes sense Um so,yeah, so, going back to the plan
, so inserting snacks and thenknowing how many calories you go
back to, using that caloriecalculator, you just kind of
divide up your day.
And then lunch, whatever, ifyou like a short lunch, if you
want to like do something on thego, like a shake is really easy
for on the go.
Uh, if you are a cold soaker, Ilove pasta salads.

(44:32):
Um, we can go on and on and onabout cold soaking.

Speaker 1 (44:36):
Um, yeah, please.
So that's like a whole notherthing.

Speaker 2 (44:39):
So cold soaking is like a whole nother thing.
Um, I did it for the entireOregon coast trail.
I'll never do it again, but Ihave learned things that make it
better.
Okay, Um.
So yeah, whatever your lunchtimemight look like, if it's
something that you want to sitand have like an hour, or if you
want something quick, um, itdoesn't have to be a solid meal,
it could just be you know somesnack bars, you know energy bars

(45:00):
, nuts, whatever fits your style.
And then think about how manyhours is it going to take you to
get to dinner, to finish.
So sometimes dinner, or, excuseme, by the time you finish your
day, you may only have anotherhour worth of hiking, so you
might only need one more snackand then you wait until dinner
time.
Or, if you're not going tofinish hiking until seven or
eight, make sure you're stilleating every hour to every hour

(45:21):
and a half.
So insert snacks and thendinner is same thing.
Think about plenty of carbs,because you probably may not
have kept up all day long, soyou need to replenish the carbs
you burned.
I think really heavily onprotein to get you to recover
for the next day.

Speaker 1 (45:37):
Yeah, I was going to ask you if protein comes in
heavily at night.

Speaker 2 (45:41):
I shoot for 20 to 25 grams.
You don't have to go over andabove like huge amounts, because
your body can only utilize somuch.
So, and we're most of us aren'tbody builders, we're not, you
know, ingesting huge quantitiesof protein.
So the sweet spot from what Iread in the research is 20 to 25
grams, and it's usually notvery hard to get that much.
Um, so yeah, and other thing,kind of a trick, you're getting

(46:04):
all my golden nuggets.
You're getting like everythingI teach in all my classes on one
podcast.
Um, so the other thing is thatif you're camping in cold
weather, a lot of people thinklike, oh, I need fat.
That's a slow burning fuel,like that'll keep me warmer at
night.
But it's actually protein.
And getting into metabolism,the thermic effect of food, it's

(46:24):
how much energy is burned fromusing the food.
It produces heat.
Protein produces more heat thanfat does.
So if you have a higher proteindinner, you're actually going
to increase your bodytemperature faster.
Um, if you're sleeping in thecold, so a lot of the women that
I work with that struggle withstaying warm, then that's we do
like a peanut butter packetbefore they go to bed.

(46:45):
So you've got some of that slowburning fuel, the fat, but then
you've also got this boost ofprotein to kind of get you warm,
um yeah, so there's kind of aday, okay, and so everybody's
unique, just kind of insert whatworks for your style, um, and
then yeah, and then betweenthese, like how, how many
calories generally do you likefor me?

Speaker 1 (47:07):
I shoot, I guess we already covered it to 300
calories for like that.
That in between snack likethat's 68.
Okay, so I'm not that feels itmakes me feel good, because
that's usually I find myselfwhen I do my snacks on the trail
.
I'm not sitting down for verylong Cause.
Usually, especially if I'm bymyself, I sit down for like 10

(47:28):
minutes max, right, like Iliterally just sit down, eat and
then I'm rolling again and it'swell and I've gotten to where I
have self care I have tostretch.

Speaker 2 (47:38):
So that's kind of my I'm taking a bite stretching,
taking a bite stretching.

Speaker 1 (47:41):
And then all this leads like yeah, oh, my gosh
Care is not very important to me.

Speaker 2 (47:47):
Yeah, I didn't worry about stretching when I was 20.

Speaker 1 (47:51):
Oh man, I'm getting real.
My, my IT band is so tight.

Speaker 2 (47:54):
Yeah, I feel like my dad carry one of those scrapers
now I don't know what they'recalled.
But I scraped the fascia.
Yeah, and it doesn't feel good,but I feel much better the next
day, so that's part of myroutine.

Speaker 1 (48:06):
Oh yeah, I should probably do that, I just it's so
painful.

Speaker 2 (48:10):
It doesn't feel good.
No, no, I feel better overall.
That's awesome.

Speaker 1 (48:15):
Okay, cool, so I'm not like way off on my timing or
my estimated color, can take onmy breaks.
I think for me it's just a, andit's fascinating that you say
that, like I'm the tortilla tunaguy, for lunch I was even doing
tortilla and my favorite mealon the PCT through Washington.

(48:36):
I'm not kidding around, I wouldget done eating it and for some
reason, for like the 500 milesof Washington, this is what I
ate and I never got tired of it.
I would go tortilla, salami,easy cheese.
I would bring an easy cheese.
First time I packed in mybuddy's like, are you packing

(49:01):
easy cheese?
And it's not very lightweight.
Clearly Right.
But dude, I don't know what itwas, but man, that kind of
changes when you're throughhiking.

Speaker 2 (49:10):
It really did.
It's weird stuff.

Speaker 1 (49:13):
It was probably because I was doing the most
miles I'd done on the trailthrough Washington.
So, and I noticed that's when Idropped the most amount of
weight.
I dropped weight consistentlyon the trail Through there.
But then when I started doingno less than 25 to 27 miles a
day through Washington, I justthe weight just fell right off.

(49:35):
So I was and I was just, butthat was my, that was my meal
for lunch and I would get doneeating.
I was like, oh, I want to haveanother one, but I couldn't you
know because you're like timedout.

Speaker 2 (49:46):
You know, I gotta get , I gotta, I gotta save this one
for tomorrow.

Speaker 1 (49:49):
So, yeah, it's funny.
Yeah, and that's the otherthing about those trails is that
you're or you know like a longhunt or something like that, or
you know you're out for a coupleof days.
How do you battle palettechanges in your in?

Speaker 2 (50:03):
your packs.

Speaker 1 (50:03):
That's tough.

Speaker 2 (50:04):
That's tough, because normally at home I like nuts
when I backpack I can't standthem, so I think it's just a
matter of like, more and more.

Speaker 1 (50:11):
Yeah, it's just a matter of more and more
experience.

Speaker 2 (50:13):
Like being out in the back country, more you learn
what you really like and whatyou don't like.
I never eat cheese.
It's on my regular days at home, but they just.
It's one of my happy foods.
I love them.

Speaker 1 (50:23):
They're salty, they're crunchy, it's just one
of those things that I do.
You know they're salty.

Speaker 2 (50:28):
They're crunchy.

Speaker 1 (50:30):
Oh, there's crunchy, but it's not that much there's
crunchy but it's not something Iever eat at home.

Speaker 2 (50:35):
But, it's just something that I've learned,
that really like that kind ofthing and even my favorite
preferences have changed overthe years.
I think, like bars I mean somany bars.
The past couple of years Icouldn't touch them, but now
that I went without them I'mtrying a lot of new flavors, new
companies and I'm liking themagain.

Speaker 1 (50:52):
Do you have any favorites off the top of your
head right now?

Speaker 2 (50:55):
Right now I'm trying the yes bars.
Oops, and they are so good andthey're calorically dense.
I'm actually including them inall of our new meal kits now
because they're about onehundred and fifty calories per
ounce, which is unheard of forbars.
And then the bearded brothershave switched over to those, and
the other reason why I likethese is they're calorically
dense.
They're tiny.
So, yeah, like pro bar meals, Ican't eat one of those.

(51:17):
It's like a calorie bomb in mystomach.
There's just like this brick.
That is just too much.
So I'm on the hunt for liketiny little bars that are like
three bites and then I'm donekind of thing.

Speaker 1 (51:29):
Are you the kitchen?
Let's let's transition to whatyou're up to, because I feel
like you've just doused everyonewith a ton of knowledge.

Speaker 2 (51:41):
Brain spinning yeah.

Speaker 1 (51:43):
Your kitchen that you opened you are.
What are you doing in yourkitchen?

Speaker 2 (51:49):
So how I moved into the kitchen is this past season
I started a resupply service soit was a custom service to where
I built food boxes for hikers,because it's one of those things
that I learned like people arereally struggling getting the
food that they want on the trail, especially if you have special
diets, whether you're glutenfree, dairy free, whatever it is
that you have that I was likeyou know what there's.

(52:10):
I love making resupply boxes.
It's a weird passion.
It is very strange, it's verystrange, but I've been doing it
for all my hikes, like I nevergo to the grocery store.

Speaker 1 (52:19):
The one person in the world that likes to resupply,
Like you know.
It really gets me up in themorning, Resupply boxes.

Speaker 2 (52:25):
I love resupply boxes and I'm good at it.
I'm super organized, it'ssomething I enjoy doing.
So that's what I started thisseason was building boxes for
hikers and then just realizingthat I can only help so many
people.
So that's why we built the shopto where now I'm making all the
meals in the large volumes wehave.

(52:46):
You can't see around the cornerof my house, but we have three
eight foot tall shelving unitsthat are all just bars and
snacks and all those kind ofthings.
So now I can pull those fromthe bins, put them in a box and
get them out the next day kindof thing.
So I've taken my recipes.
That other reason why I'm goingto the commercial kitchen is my
customers, through our mealplanning site, have been begging

(53:07):
for me to make them.
Like, aaron, I love your foodbut I don't have time to make it
.
Would you just make it for me?
And I've been hesitant allthese years because it's like,
is that going to take the funout of it?
You know like I've been puttingit off and putting it off, but
then I realized just that's justone more way that I can help
people and I am good at it.
I do enjoy doing it.
So we moved into the commercial.

(53:29):
I started out and caught itthrough this season, and now
I've moved into the commercialkitchen just a few weeks ago, so
now I'm making hundred, ahundred servings at a time.

Speaker 1 (53:40):
Are you?
Is all the ingredients thatyou're doing?
Is it already dry?

Speaker 2 (53:45):
It's all dry ingredients based.

Speaker 1 (53:48):
Yeah, no cooking.
It's essentially all amusing myrecipe is just mixing.

Speaker 2 (53:54):
It's easy work and just doing it for people.
So I'm taking the top recipesthat people really love from our
membership site and just makingthem for them and packaging
them up.
And now they're just get on thewebsite, pull out your
favorites and then off you go.
Nothing fancy, that's so cool.

Speaker 1 (54:12):
I feel like there was a spike in outdoor food, like
meals and stuff like that, andthen I feel like it seemed like
there was a lot of options for ashort period of time and then
they all collapsed.
They all went away, but I feellike there's such a need for it,
so I'm excited to see have you?

(54:35):
You've messed around withfreeze dryers.

Speaker 2 (54:39):
Yes.

Speaker 1 (54:40):
What are your thoughts?
I have a home free.

Speaker 2 (54:41):
I love mine.
I have a home freeze dryer, butit can't keep up with what?

Speaker 1 (54:45):
I'm doing right now.

Speaker 2 (54:47):
So as soon as I have enough sales coming in, I'm
going to buy a couple ofcommercial ones.
But yeah, the home quality of afreeze dryer home freeze dryer
is so much better than that'swhat I'm actually struggling
because I know the berries thatI dried myself are just so much
better than what I have to buy.
So I'll eventually get to whereI can afford an enormous
commercial freeze dryer.

Speaker 1 (55:08):
What would be your plan with that?
Would you actually be?
Would you just be making yourown?
Would you be making meals andthen freeze, drying them?
Or would you be getting organicbarriers and things like that?

Speaker 2 (55:18):
Just organic berries, bananas, vegetables and those
kind of things.
Because for me, believe it ornot, I don't like to cook.
I don't like to be in the stoveand cook.
Drying ingredients, dumping itin a bag, super duper easy.
That's fine, but I don't likebeing in there stirring a stew
for two hours and then the wholeprocess.
I can just pump out so manymore meals, dry ingredients,
putting them in a bag, thengetting out, chopping fresh

(55:42):
vegetables, stirring it up fortwo hours, then you have to dry
it for 24 hours, so to me thatjust doesn't sound fun.
I want to.

Speaker 1 (55:48):
I want to one of those harvest dryers harvest
right freeze dryers so badbecause my wife she hasn't made
it in a while which I need tomention this to her Because she
makes this butter chicken meal.
It's like the most amazingthing ever and I, every time she
makes it, I'm like I want tofreeze dry this and eat it in

(56:10):
the mountains, like she makes agood chili.
She makes good.
I mean, I was even thinkingabout doing it, just going to
the store and getting you knowlike canned chili or canned soup
and just freeze drying that andthen toss it in the backpack.
I'd be like I paid like $2 forthis Right.

(56:31):
Like if you had a freeze dryerand you just did like canned
food, you could save yourself alot of money once you you know A
lot of money.

Speaker 2 (56:41):
Well and I've looked at the again, being the nerdy
dietician, the number cruncher,the energy a lot of people are
like, oh, you're paying forelectricity.

Speaker 1 (56:47):
I was going to ask you about that.

Speaker 2 (56:49):
Yeah, I've monitored all that too and it usually
costs me about $2 per batch andelectricity, and that's in
California and I'm sure ourrates are higher.
How big is your freeze dryer?
I have the medium size harvestright, let's see.
Is it either five or six trays?
Five trays, four trays,something like that.
It's not huge.
And actually, what's misleadingwhen you're reading the

(57:10):
descriptions on those, thatgives the how many pounds it can
hold.
Well, five pounds of stew isvery different from five pounds
of apples, because apples takeup more space.
I have to think about thesurface area that the food's
going to take up, because whenyou slice up apples, by the time
they take up the surface areaof the tray, they don't wait

(57:31):
much.
I can only put two apples pertray, not five pounds of apples
per tray.
So that's where I definitely, ifyou are thinking about getting
one and you are going to do geta bigger one like pay the extra
money because you're going to bedoing more and more batches and
it does take 24 hours.
So that's kind of the downsideis you do have to be ready to be

(57:52):
in there.
Because I made the mistake?
Because, lesson learned bananaswill absorb moisture from the
air really quickly and stick tothe trays and not come off.
So I made the mistake ofleaving out the trays, going to
the grocery, coming back, andthen I had to chisel them off of
the tray by the time.
I got home.

Speaker 1 (58:11):
So how's the freeze drying work you just so you put
it on these little trays, tossit in there, push the button
push the button 24 hours lateryou're pulling it out.

Speaker 2 (58:19):
Is there like a?

Speaker 1 (58:21):
to get it.
This is ready to go, you justbag it up, or something.

Speaker 2 (58:24):
Just bag it up.
I actually sort of storeeverything in mason jars because
I'm trying to get away fromusing so much plastic.
Yeah, the businessman built Ihad some mason jars.
He built shelving units for mymason jars and then on Amazon
there's actually a section avacuum seal all of them, so they
last longer.
So there's actually a littlesuction cup that you can get for
a vacuum sealer and just sit onthe mason jars and that's it.

(58:47):
It's easy and you can even usefreeze, frozen vegetables,
frozen fruit.
You don't have to chop them up.
That's I'm lazy.
I mean I do all things that I'mlazy.
So you just take frozenbroccoli, throw it on there, and
then it actually dries fasterbecause it's already frozen, so
it actually goes a little bitquicker.

Speaker 1 (59:04):
This is going to be a really dumb question.
Is fruit like an apple on thetrail?
Does it make sense?

Speaker 2 (59:15):
Like I love Apple.

Speaker 1 (59:16):
Yeah, like I love apples, I really love them.
I've never brought one into thebackpacking, though.
Is it a good food to have onthe trail?
Is it not a good food to haveon the trail?

Speaker 2 (59:30):
Again, I don't believe in what a good food or
bad food.
If it's something that makesyou happy and you really enjoy
it, it's optimal.
Well, the thing is, if you'rean ultra light backpacker, it's
heavy, so that's the kind ofthing.
And then please, don't leavethe core behind.
So you have to think aboutmaking sure you carry out the
core kind of thing too.
So if it's something that youenjoy, there's no reason why you
couldn't take it.
Similar kind of thing likeavocados.

(59:51):
People love taking avocados.
You just have to make sure youpack out the pit and the skin.

Speaker 1 (59:56):
So yeah, I feel like there's a lot of avocado eaters
out there that bring them on thetrail, and every time I see one
I'm like odd choice.

Speaker 2 (01:00:05):
It's kind of one of those little fresh treats that
it's actually shelf stable soit's not going to get mashed up
too terribly bad.
You're probably not going totake a fresh tomato out because
it's going to get squashed, butsomething like an apple or an
orange, something like that.
That if it makes you happy andyou're okay with carrying the
extra weight, then yeah, go forit.

Speaker 1 (01:00:23):
I like your approach, what makes you happy, and try
not to change your diet toodrastically from home recipes or
actually home recipes.

Speaker 2 (01:00:35):
Like my spaghetti is my mom's spaghetti recipe.
I call it Yo Simity yams.
Essentially is our Thanksgivingsweet potato pasta roll, so
it's all just things that wenormally eat at home.
I've just figured out how tomanipulate in a way that it's
backfacking friendly.

Speaker 1 (01:00:50):
And how?
Okay, so take the yams one.
These are dried yams.

Speaker 2 (01:00:59):
So that one I do make fresh and dehydrate.

Speaker 1 (01:01:02):
So that one is super super simple.

Speaker 2 (01:01:04):
So it's just canned sweet potatoes.
I put pineapple in it, brownsugar, some pecans, and then,
because fat doesn't dehydrate, Idon't add fat, so those things
go in, and then when it comesout I powder it or mash it up as
best as possible so itrehydrates better, and then I
add either.
I used to use coconut oil, butnow it's really hard to find so

(01:01:24):
I'm using MCT powder.
Because you don't have coconutoil.
You had to have hot water toget it to dissolve, or at least
some sort of heat to get it todissolve, and I've switched to
MCT powder because it's the samething as dried from coconuts,
but it doesn't need the heat todissolve.
So it works really well andthen it's just regular food.
It's what I normally eat athome.

Speaker 1 (01:01:44):
Wow, okay, your business, let's let's wrap up by
like recapping all the thingsthat you're offering people from
top to bottom.
What's like your main jam?

Speaker 2 (01:01:59):
It has been the recipe platform for the last six
years.
So that's where, like I wassaying that, I produce recipes.
I'm constantly trail testingthat kind of thing as I upload
those to our membership site.
It is an membership platform,so we have three tiers.
There's just the recipeplatform.
That's all you get is ourrecipes.
And then if you're reallywanting to dive in and meal plan

(01:02:20):
a little bit better, if you'retired of using spreadsheets or
spreadsheets are overwhelmingour meal planner is all
automated.
So if you want to drop in thefoods that you want to eat, it
tells you all the nutritionnumbers, it tells you how much
it weighs, the carbs, theprotein, everything you'd ever
need to know.
If you're watching your sodium,it tells you how much sodium is
in there.
So that's the next level is ourmeal planner platform.
And then the next level is ifyou really want to deep dive and

(01:02:42):
take my classes at sixdifferent classes that I teach
you essentially what we'vetalked about today, but in like
three times as much informationas I might be overwhelming, but
there's master classes.
And then in that level we haveonce a month, like live Q and a.
Essentially what we're doingright now is people ask
questions and then I respondonce a month for about an hour.
So it's kind of like havingyour little personal dietitian

(01:03:03):
once a month.
So that's what we've been doing.
Then the nutrition coaching isone on one, and then what I just
launched, which we're reallyfocusing on, is our shop and the
resupply boxes is what we'redoing now.
So in the race we had 18 hikerssigned up for my resupply, so
I'm going to be feeding thisyear.
Wow, do you have a cap?
Um, I will work its way down to10, because it's inevitable

(01:03:28):
that somebody gets hurt, there'sa family situation or something
.
So 10 is my comfortable level.
I start out with a lot more,just expecting it to kind of
drop.
So once I people start dropping, then I can add in like a JMT
hiker that's starting later inthe season or a Colorado Trail
hiker that's starting in July iskind of what I'm managing.

Speaker 1 (01:03:46):
So you take care of them for the entire trail?
Mm, hmm, oh fascinating, so I'mincluding gear.

Speaker 2 (01:03:51):
I do gear.
I'm essentially like a trailmom.
So you place your order, tellme what you want to eat, and
then I magically put it alltogether and then it shows up at
the post office.

Speaker 1 (01:04:00):
I love it.

Speaker 2 (01:04:01):
That's so cool and I have a lot of international
hikers that don't have supportpeople here in the country.
So they mail me or orderAmerican gear, ship it to me and
I hold on to it until they needto switch it in and out, kind
of thing.
So, going to the Sierra, I sendthem, in their winter, they
send back the desert gear.
And then some funny things thathappened last year.
I got a we communicate byGarmin or some kind of text

(01:04:23):
messaging is.
I got a message.
I just ripped my pants.
Erin, can you please get me apair of pants ASAP?
So I do that kind of stuff too.

Speaker 1 (01:04:30):
As all because Amazon can't ship to post offices.
Yeah, you're like an angeltrail foodie Right.

Speaker 2 (01:04:39):
One of my hikers called me the trail costier.
I make all the magic and I loveit.
It's just I kind of miss myhikers after six months.
They're like we just get toknow each other so well.

Speaker 1 (01:04:49):
Oh, that's so cool.

Speaker 2 (01:04:50):
And then I check in on them.
I'm like you're looking alittle thin, Can I give you some
more food?

Speaker 1 (01:04:54):
So I actually have.

Speaker 2 (01:04:56):
My hikers have all maintained their weight because
we've been able to kind of keepthem healthy and eating well
along the way.

Speaker 1 (01:05:02):
That's so cool, is there any?
So the reset button, so you'redoing a resupply boxes as well.
If someone needed to likesomeone's going on like what if
it's not through hiking?
What if it's just hey, I have afive day backpacking trip
coming up Can and I'm like Idon't want to make this.
I don't know, can you take careof my food?

Speaker 2 (01:05:22):
Yes.
So another thing we've startedis our one day meal kits.
So it's already pre planned outfor you.
I've already pre done thecalories, the carbs, that.
I've already done all that foryou, as you just go in and pick
out how many kits you want andthen the box that goes, and then
you're done.
No planning needed on your part.
So they are set at right now.
I'm setting them about 3000calories because it's kind of
like the base level that anyhiker would need.

(01:05:44):
And then we have these caloriebooster bundles.
So if you need 4000 calories,you add on extra booster bundles
that I've already kind of predone out and then again it's all
done for you.
It just shows up in a box andoff you go.

Speaker 1 (01:05:57):
That's so cool.
I'm going to try that this year.
My wife, I was like dude, youshould check out what the
foodie's doing, because we bothfollowed you for a while Cause
it's so fun.
Like you, you one of myfavorite things is going into
hiker season and just findingsome hikers to follow.
It's just so fun.
And then so you were one of thepeople that my wife and I had

(01:06:20):
followed and I was like.
So we've always like kind ofwe've known what you've been up
to and like what's foodie up tothis?

Speaker 2 (01:06:27):
year.
Yeah, she's got so much goingon and she was on your website.

Speaker 1 (01:06:31):
She's like you need to do this.
So I'm going to.
I want to try this next yearbecause there's some trips I
want to do and I, like I said, Ijust want to branch out and be
like sometimes you just needsomeone to show you the way to
like okay, there's, here's how Ineed to start thinking about it
.
And it's hard when I've kind ofmoved into a.
It's easy for you becauseyou're seeing it all the time.

(01:06:52):
Right, it's like repetition isvery, like, very important.
But like when you move intolike just your average
backpacking stuff and you're notgoing every weekend, it's hard
to remember.
It's hard to remember whatworked and what didn't work.

Speaker 2 (01:07:05):
And even if you've been, I encourage my people to
do is keep a hiking food journal.

Speaker 1 (01:07:09):
Ooh, that's a good one.

Speaker 2 (01:07:11):
Is write it down what you had before you left and
then, when you come back, writedown what worked and what didn't
work, and then you don't haveto make the mistakes the next
time.

Speaker 1 (01:07:20):
Yeah, and you know what?

Speaker 2 (01:07:22):
And it only takes a couple of times you know do that
a couple of times, and then youfigure it out.

Speaker 1 (01:07:26):
I have one of the things I've.
I've always I've always beenjealous of people that can eat
peanut butter wraps.
I can't do it.

Speaker 2 (01:07:34):
I cannot, I can't do it.

Speaker 1 (01:07:36):
And I've screwed myself so many times.
I'm like you know, I'm going togo peanut butter this time.
Bad idea Just a.
I don't eat it.
I can't do it for something.
Something happens in my bodywhere I like all eat peanut
butter toast all the time.
I'm like man, I just want somepeanut butter and toast, like I
love it.
I cannot eat peanut butter inthe back country, I don't know

(01:07:59):
why, just can't do it yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:08:01):
But just like I was saying nuts, I can't touch them.
I don't know why it is, butit's just one of those things
and I've learned that just fromexperience.
So, again taking notes, writethat down.
You get back like this meal,just I couldn't touch it.
So you know not to do it againthe next time.

Speaker 1 (01:08:14):
What am I?
I started making my own littletrail mix.
It's not very light, obviously,trail trail mix is not very
light, but depends on how youmake it.

Speaker 2 (01:08:22):
Oh really.

Speaker 1 (01:08:24):
I put corn, I start putting like corn nuts and M&Ms
and I'll do like a, I think,almonds.
So corn nuts, almonds and M&Ms,I'll toss them in just a Ziploc
baggy and that's, and it's likepart of my.
I usually take like a handfulof them when I sit down, like I
don't know how many calories itends up being, but I like to eat

(01:08:45):
them.
I like corn nuts and likealmonds and almonds I can eat,
and then the chocolate's justthere for like flavor.
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:08:53):
Yeah, I think trail mixes are good too, because you
can get that whole mixture ofsalty sweet, you know, crunchy.
I actually have a recipe calleddon't knock it till you try it,
because it's so bizarre but itis so amazing.
So it's wheat thens, which,again, is not something I
normally eat, but I love them ontrail.
So pretzels, little littlepretzel twists, chocolate

(01:09:15):
covered raisins and pecansTotally random ingredients but,
yeah, totally weird, random, butit's amazing when you you
actually have to eat a littlebit of everything all in one
bite and just whatever thatflavor combination is.
It's so good.

Speaker 1 (01:09:29):
Is there a high calorie chip that you send out
with people?

Speaker 2 (01:09:34):
Like potato chips.

Speaker 1 (01:09:35):
Yeah, like a potato chip.

Speaker 2 (01:09:37):
I think they're pretty much pretty darn close to
all the same 150, 160 caloriesper ounce on average.
But, like I said, I really likethe plantain chips because,
they just do what I need them todo.
That's kind of that combinationfood thing that I think about.

Speaker 1 (01:09:49):
Yeah, that's a good takeaway.
Like, try to find a combinationfood, very cool.
Last question why do you dothis?
Why do you?
You're just like so happy aboutit, like what what?
I love it.

Speaker 2 (01:10:00):
It's such a weird passion, why?

Speaker 1 (01:10:03):
Have you ever like?
Why?
What makes you so excited to dothis?
It's my two passions.

Speaker 2 (01:10:09):
I love food.
I've always been a dietitian,I'll never be anything else, and
I love being outdoors.
So I get to combine the twothings I love the most and earn
a living doing it and helpingother people.
I've always that's kind ofbeing a dietitian.
That's one thing that's in ourDNA is we like to help people.
We're in the field because welike to help and I just learned
that through all my mistakesthat I learned.

(01:10:29):
Then I just teach everybodyelse before they get to that
position and make the samemistakes.
So I do, I love it.

Speaker 1 (01:10:36):
Very cool.

Speaker 2 (01:10:36):
There's no way I'm going.
If I feel like I'm struggling,then the motivation is you have
to go back to your old job andlike no, I got to figure this
out.
I'm not going back to my oldjob, so I just troubleshoot,
evolve and then just make itwork.

Speaker 1 (01:10:47):
That's awesome.
Well, I would encourage anyoneto check out that a minimum of
the recipes that you put out andget a hold of those things,
because and this calculator, howcool is that.

Speaker 2 (01:10:57):
The calculator for sure.
Yeah, like that will solve yourfirst problem, yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:11:02):
But like the recipes that you'll share on Instagram
and stuff like that, I'm likethis is incredible, Like so
helpful for a lot of people andI feel like food is such a key
to success out there.
It's so important from justlike a food makes people feel
good and it can help you and ithelps you perform and if you get
it wrong, it sucks, it sucks.

Speaker 2 (01:11:25):
Well, people will spend hundreds and hundreds of
dollars on gear and then not payattention to their food.

Speaker 1 (01:11:29):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:11:31):
So even if you're comfortable on your nice puffy
jacket, you're physicallymiserable because you're not
fueling what's inside that puffyjacket.

Speaker 1 (01:11:38):
I love it.
Do we miss anything?
Did we cover everything?
Any final, any final.

Speaker 2 (01:11:43):
I got a lot going on at foodie.
Any final thoughts from thefoodie?
I feel like you're the foremostexpert on like it's like.
I don't know, I don't know, Idon't know.

Speaker 1 (01:11:47):
I don't know, I don't know, I don't know, I don't
know.
I get like a gorilla foodfood-making out there Like every
time you come up with like arecipe, I'm like man, this is
like some gorilla warfare stuff.
Like because nothing again.
Like you don't, nothing's toyour point.
Like you haven't eaten acommercial off the shelf meal

(01:12:09):
and that's seriously, that's howI do it Is.

Speaker 2 (01:12:11):
I get on Pinterest or I'll get on all recipes or
something like that, and I justlook at like what sounds really
good for dinner and then I justmanipulated into a backpack, you
know so I would like to turnThanksgiving into backpacking
meals.

Speaker 1 (01:12:24):
I would like to figure out a way to do that, so
gravy.
I love Thanksgiving meals.

Speaker 2 (01:12:30):
Cranberry you can do dried cranberries, stove top,
dried powder gravy, you know ifyou get a freeze-dried,
freeze-dried your turkey.
So it's really, it's not thathard, it's just having that
know-how which is what I'mtrying to teach people, yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:12:42):
Well, where should they go if they wanna learn more
?

Speaker 2 (01:12:46):
Backcountrybootycom, and everything is there.
So our recipes, our blog,they're.
Do just go there and thenthat'll direct you to where you
need to go.

Speaker 1 (01:12:53):
Awesome.

Speaker 2 (01:12:53):
And on Instagram and Facebook.

Speaker 1 (01:12:55):
Cool, I'll make sure to put all of that in the show
now so people can click away.
And man, thank you so much fordoing this.
I really appreciate you.

Speaker 2 (01:13:02):
You're welcome.
Thanks for having me.
Yeah, thanks for sharing.
Let me share my story and mypassion and all the things that
we do.

Speaker 1 (01:13:07):
Well, you're welcome on anytime.
This is super great and I thinkit's gonna benefit a lot of
people.
So thank you so much.
You're welcome.
All right, that is it forepisode 165 with the Backcountry
Booty.
Thanks so much for tuning in Tofollow up on anything we

(01:13:29):
mentioned in this episode.
I have included links to all ofit in the show notes, so be
sure to check those out when youhave a chance, and if you have
not yet introduced yourself tome, please do.
I love hearing from you guys.
I always respond.
So if you haven't said hi, makesure you do so.
You can reach me at emory atbylandco, and I promise you'll

(01:13:49):
get a response.
That's it for me.
If you're headed out on anadventure anytime soon, be safe,
make great decisions and we'llsee you next time.
第二 Junior you, you, you, you,you.

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.css-14f5ked{margin:0;word-break:break-word;display:-webkit-box;-webkit-box-orient:vertical;box-orient:vertical;-webkit-line-clamp:2;overflow:hidden;}#165 Becoming a Backcountry Foodie with Aaron Owens

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