April 30, 2025 • 33 mins
Recent political developments in the U.S.—from executive orders to proposed agency closures and evolving federal funding guidelines—have placed cultural organizations at the center of a national conversation about how institutions uphold their values and navigate their role in a rapidly changing America.
In this episode, Brett Egan of the DeVos Institute of Arts and Nonprofit Management breaks down what’s happening now, what’s at stake, and where cultural organizations might find unexpected opportunity in the turbulence.
CI to Eye with Brett Egan (1:30) -- CI’s President (Interim) Christopher Williams sits down with Brett Egan, President of the DeVos Institute of Arts and Nonprofit Management. They discuss how to prepare for threats to the arts and cultural industry, and rethink what resilience means moving forward.
CI-lebrity Sightings (31:55) -- Dan Titmuss shares his favorite stories about CI clients in the news. This month’s episode spotlights The Juilliard School, Louisville Orchestra, and San Diego Theatres.
LINKS:
DeVos Institute of Arts and Nonprofit Management
Capacity Interactive | The Arts and Culture Sector is Facing a Funding Squeeze in 2025
New York Times | Juilliard Plans $550 Million Drive to Go Tuition Free
Sentinel News | Louisville Orchestra bring classical music to all corners of Kentucky
Broadway World | San Diego Civic Theatre Will Get $7.5 Million Renovation
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:09):
Hey everybody, it's ChristopherWilliams. Today on the podcast,
we are welcoming back Brett Egan,
president of the DeVos Instituteof Arts and Nonprofit Management.
Brett joins us at a criticalmoment for our sector.
Recent political shifts in the UnitedStates, including executive orders,
proposed agency closures, and changesto our federal funding guidelines,
(00:31):
have placed cultural organizations atthe center of a national conversation
about how institutions uphold their valuesand navigate their role in a rapidly
changing America. In this episode,
Brett helps us navigatethe latest developments,
offering insight into therisks organizations face and the bold opportunities
that might emerge fromthis turbulent time.
(00:54):
We'll talk about how to preparefor threats to our industry,
like shrinking grant funding,increasing restrictions on our speech,
and instability in higher educationand international relations,
but we'll also explore a proactive outlookand rethink what resilience means for
our industry moving forward.
If you're wondering how to lead with bothcourage and pragmatism when the ground
(01:17):
keeps shifting underneath ourfeet, this conversation is for you.
Without further ado, here's Brett Egan.
Brett Egan, welcome back to CI to Eye.
(01:38):
Thanks, Christopher.
The last time you werehere was five years ago,
which that in and of itselffeels like a crazy thing to say,
but it was days after the March 2020
Covid shutdown.
And you recorded an episode ofthe podcast with our founder Erik
(01:59):
Gensler,
which quite frankly holds up really welltoday when you go back and listen to
it. It's quite interesting.
So there are things afoot in the worldagain today, and so here you are,
hopefully back to giveus some of your sage
guidance.
I appreciate that, Christopher.
Some days it feels like it's been like35 years since that talk with Erik.
(02:21):
Don't we get -- eachCovid year was a dog year.
We get seven years creditfor each of those dog years.
Yeah, that is a very --
It's been 26 years sincemy discussion with Erik,
and in some cases it feels likeit was just yesterday. I mean,
when the fifth anniversary of Covid blewby I guess almost exactly a month ago,
it sort of left me breathless thinkingthat it's actually been five years.
(02:42):
Because a lot of theimpacts have left traces
and we're still workingthrough them. But yeah,
that conversation with Erik cameat a time when the world went
sideways, and so wheneverI feel distressed,
I try to put together a plan. Youmight even call it a neurosis,
and I suppose we find ourselveshere in a different form of 50
(03:06):
shades of darkness lookingfor similar structure.
So what has brought ustogether is our combined desire
to discuss what has beenhappening in the world,
but more specifically what ishappening to arts and culture as a
result of the administration.
(03:26):
And you have made quite astudy of some of that so
far, I know.
I know that not everyone canstay on top of all of this.
Some people very much choose to ignoreit because it's just more than they can
handle.
But can we start by justdoing a broad overview
of what has happened so far?
(03:47):
And I should say we are recording thisat 10:30 in the morning on Friday,
April 25th,
and I think everyone will understand thatwe have to say things like that these
days because there are things that areconstantly coming at us and changing.
Depending on when you'relistening to this,
it might be importantfor you to know the date.
Well, here's my responseto that, Christopher.
Thank goodness we have institutionslike the National Council of Nonprofits
(04:12):
and Americans for the Arts thatare keeping tabs on this daily.
I have grown to really rely on theirsynthesis and consult with their
resources as often as I can, tryingto make sense of the changes,
make sense of what has been said and whatthis means for all of us. It's a mess.
It's a total mess and thereare huge areas of uncertainty
(04:34):
and it's exhausting to try tokeep up with it. As of right now,
the two executive orders 14173,
which was illegal DEI, and 14168,
which is gender ideology,
those are the two that were issuedearly on that remain the most relevant
executive orders,
and we are still in a gray space as towhether or not those two executive orders
(04:58):
are or are not going to have animpact on what the National Endowment
for the Arts will fund. The NationalEndowment for the Arts has said that it
is undertaking a process of internalreview and it will clarify its position in
respect to whether or not those twoEOs are going to be taken into account
specifically within theassurance of compliance.
(05:19):
And the question really is whetheror not the NEA will be formally and
finally changing its guidelines inresponse to those two executive orders.
And I don't have the answerto that. As far as I know,
nobody has the answer to that as wesit here today. In principle, April 30,
we'll see. When this podcast is released,
NEA is meant to producesome clarity there and
(05:41):
there will be implicationsfor programs and
possibly speech that intersects with the
at present definition of illegal DEI
and gender ideology. Iwill remind our listeners,
I'm sure folks are followingalong on this very closely,
(06:03):
that is the subject of thecurrent suit filed by ACLU
in partnership with TCG,Theater Communications Group,
group of theaters of Rhode Island...That is under injunction as well,
at present. It is a tangle of issues,
and there was anotherslate of executive orders,
which just was released this week thatpertains to the field of education,
(06:23):
and I think people are still unpackingwhat the relevance of those are for arts
and culture, but that's -- so far as Iunderstand it -- where we stand today.
What about our museum andlibrary friends and things
that are happening to IMLS and theNEH? What are your thoughts there?
The situation there is both of theagencies, for practical purposes,
(06:46):
have been at least temporarilyshuttered or destabilized to the
point where they would havea very hard time functioning,
including making grants.
And I think that we all know that inthe case of IMLS and in the case of NEH,
previously made grants have in somecases been suspended or been recalled.
We also know that, for instance,
(07:07):
grants to state humanitiescouncils have stopped,
and this is really devastatingto the state humanities councils.
I fully expect and I think we willsee that many of the state humanities
councils,
and in particular those who servicemore rural areas of the country,
will cease to operatewithin a matter of months.
There's a crisis there for sure.
(07:28):
Yeah.
What have you heard from yourclients or friends in the sector
as we've all sort of experienced whatjust basically generally feels like an
attack over the last fewmonths? What are you hearing?
How are people feeling?
Yeah, it's a very confusing,
(07:49):
vexing and overwhelming time for many,
and I think that we are sortof as a sector grappling
with two vectors ofpsychological activity.
One (08:02):
as I think generally sentient, conscientious, thoughtful people,
we have a concern for our nation.We have a concern for our democracy.
We have a concern for our institutions.
We are questioning the core values of our
nation, whether they're shared,
but then when we drop down and we go toour office and we sit in front of our
(08:25):
computer and we're looking in our inboxand we're thinking about payroll and
we're thinking about cashflow,
there are also the second layerof concerns about how that
filters down into our business.
And here there are a dozenvectors at least that we're
dealing with,
and it's a mess to untangle andit is overwhelming to think about.
(08:48):
Right.
One of the experiences that I'veshared with you is my front row seat to
what has happened to the Kennedy Center.
My organization has worked with thatorganization for a very long time.
It is a daily trauma to sit next to.
I don't think any of us could haveimagined that something like this would
happen, and happen this quickly.
(09:09):
And I have tremendous empathy forall of my personal and professional
relationships that still existinside of that organization.
It's definitely still happening to manypeople that a lot of us care about,
and it's been acomplicated thing, I think,
for the industry to engagewith because it's sort of like,
to boycott or not?
(09:31):
What does it mean to pull your supportwhen those people are still there?
It's super complicated and you made thepoint in a previous conversation that
all of this has put arts andculture back on the front pages,
above the fold, and whatdoes that mean for all of us?
How can we actually take advantageof the fact that that is happening?
(09:53):
Yeah. Well, when I look at what'shappened at the Kennedy Center,
I share your concern and I share yourcompassion for the people who are
affected by the changethat's taking place there.
There's a lot of suffering and there'sa good deal of contest and some
litigation and that's going to play out.
And I think it is not a phenomenonthat we necessarily would've chosen,
(10:15):
that would've transpired in this way,
but it is a phenomenon that theNational Endowment for the Arts,
the National Endowment forHumanities, the I-M-L-S-C-B-P,
the Kennedy Center, these massivepillars of American arts, culture,
humanities,
which for most of recent memory have
not been headline items, are nowheadline items with consistency.
(10:39):
I think the sector has aquestion ahead of it, which is,
is there some use to make of thefact that the work that we do,
that we have always felt iscentral to civil society,
is critical to American democracy,
is an essential tool forself-realization and the affirmation
of the huge and incredible diversityand pluralism of identities in our
(11:03):
country...We believe these things and in a sense,
the actions that have beenrecently taken affirm that.
Not perhaps in the way in which wewould want. Nonetheless, we're here.
I mean the spotlight thatthe administration has shown on the power of arts
and culture,
the power of arts and culture tohelp define the psyche of a nation,
(11:24):
to facilitate ideas,
to be a place of welcomeand belonging or be a place
of ideological contest.
We have the opportunity as a sectorto look at the changes that are taking
place and say, well, does thatproduce any opening for us?
Does it produce any opening for us tothink in a different way or does it
(11:47):
produce any opening for us to have adifferent type of conversation with
ourselves or with the nation? I'vestarted to try to come around to,
how do we organize our thinking here?And the framework that I've settled on
is the following. There are certainlythings that we cannot control.
We are not going to be ableto affect the global economy.
We are probably not going to be able toaffect the way in which global society
(12:11):
views American decision making.
We don't have the power most likely toproduce a megaphone that is going to
outweigh the headlines that come out ofthe global press on a daily basis that
are reflecting upon changestaking place in our country.
And I think even though these concernus and they concern us deeply,
we have to put those in one column andwe have to build another column that
(12:34):
says, okay, here are thethings that we can control,
areas that we need to defend ourselvesand we need to defend our institutions.
And then also areas where we mightbe able to make some progress. Or,
what we might call defense and offense.
Let's get into that. Where dowe start? Offense or defense?
We're going to start with defense.
(12:55):
So the first huge cluster obviouslywithin the context of defense is the arts
and culture sector's relationshipwith the federal government,
and the first focal point is the agencies.
IMLS, NEH, NEA, CVP.
One thing we can certainly dois rally to the defense of the
agencies that are taking thelead, and I think it's AFTA, AAM,
(13:20):
the American Library Association,the National Council of Nonprofits,
and there are others,
and all of them have putforward frameworks for communicating with Congress.
Second, for anybody who hasreceived a grant termination,
especially our friends in the humanities,
working through the NationalCouncil of Nonprofits.
They appear to be the tip ofthe spear in pushing back.
Also in the defense category,
(13:41):
I think we have to begin toconsider that the money that we
have received from theagencies... Unfortunately,
I think at this point we haveto consider it a nice-to-have,
not a must-have as we move through.And we have to deal with it.
It's emotional, it's unfair.
Aspects of it may be oncontestable legal grounds,
(14:03):
the speed is shocking, butreally it's not surprising.
So should we rally to the defense ofthese institutions? Of course we should.
Absolutely. Is it going to make adifference this time with this congress?
I don't know. Time will tell.
The odds look a bit worse todaythan they did in previous cycles,
so how do we think aboutmoney in our own budgets?
(14:26):
It's different for sure moving forward.
The other big thing obviously that we'recontending with on the defense side is
speech. This one is tough.
EO 14173, which was thequote illegal DEI EO,
and then 14168, which is genderideology -- both of these, obviously,
they have funding implications in sofar as they intersect with the agencies,
(14:49):
but they also have clearspeech implications and the fights that are going on in
the courts in respect to the two ofthese are referencing first amendment and
speech issues.
But we are in a gray zone right now.We're in a gray zone right now about how
this might be enforced and uponwhom. Now the big question is,
do we remove our languagenow from our website?
(15:09):
What does it mean to acquiesce?What does it mean to push back?
And what are going to be theimplications of those two courses?
I don't think there's a standard.
I think these are individual debates thatsomehow we have been pulled into that
we have to settle at theorganization level. But then again,
I also really ask organizations tothink, what is the exact pressure?
(15:31):
What is the exact pressure thatwe're facing to change our language?
Is there a specific grant at thispoint that we're not going to get,
we feel we should get and we won't getunless we do it? Did we receive a letter?
Are we worried that we might receivea letter and are we acting too soon?
I'm not advising any of my colleagues,
certainly not the ones whodo not rely upon big grants
(15:56):
from the federal government,
to make any changes at all ifthey still hold the same values.
In fact,
I am seeing certain organizationsactually double down on their language and
their commitments in particular principlesof DEI and doing quite well with
individual donors who agree with themand foundations that agree with them.
I just want to ask peopleto discern between,
(16:18):
is there a direct catalyst that forcesaction and do you wish to take action or
do you wish to tell the catalyst we don'tneed you if you can afford to do that?
Another thing really onmy mind, Christopher,
is universities and university-basedarts programs. And as we start to see
our universities imperiled inmany cases -- in many cases,
(16:39):
it's not like theadministration is saying,
we're cutting arts funding to theuniversities. We know that's not the case,
but when you see universities losinga billion dollars here and $6 billion
here in research money and you realizethat inside of that research money,
a significant chunk of it pays foradministrative overhead and facilities,
of course it's going to trickle down.
(16:59):
And so in the universitycontext in particular,
one thing that I think donors can do,
and one thing I thinkadministrators can do,
is start to have this conversationnow and talk about what
impacts may be coming nextfiscal and to prepare for that.
And then the other sort of big thing asit pertains to the federal government is
(17:24):
just international relations and impactsfor US arts organizations and artists,
for any arts organization or artist whohas enjoyed a sense of global community.
Sadly, the position of the US inthe global discussion is changing,
and I think it's going tohave an impact on touring,
on international cooperation,and in many cases,
(17:46):
the money that arts and culturalorganizations based in the US derive from
international participation.
Yeah. I've literally heard from a numberof organizations already stories about
international artists saying,
'We are not comfortable comingto the US' and pulling away.
Yeah, there's, do people want tocome here? The list is endless,
(18:08):
right? I mean, let me move onto the economy for a minute.
There's obviously the tariffs, theimpact on 401Ks, the uncertainty.
That's not good for us, right?
We're definitely looking out at fiscal'26 with conservative contributed revenue
projections. We'reabsolutely recalibrating.
We are anticipating thepossible impact of a recession.
(18:29):
When we think back about whichrecession is most likely to
resemble the one that'scoming up if we have one,
I think unfortunately it's2008, which was the hardest.
But during that time,foundations were most reliable.
Individuals were second most helpful.
Government historicallyhad been pretty supportive,
(18:50):
but I wouldn't count onthat this fall or early '26,
especially not for arts andculture. And then corporate, sadly,
in every recession, artshave been cut first.
So I would say sort of as weapproach this upcoming fiscal season,
on the defense side,
obviously there's a huge cluster aboutthe relationship with the federal
(19:11):
government. There's a clusteraround the changing economy,
and I think there's one cluster aroundcontinuing to deal with audiences,
the potential of recession and sort ofongoing distraction that they have as
well.And this leads me to think
if we can a little bit moreassertively about getting off our heels
(19:34):
and onto our toes.
The defense of all of thisis fairly overwhelming,
and I know you have somegreat ideas about how
we can make moves offensively,
and I would love for youto take us up if we can.
Yeah.
(19:54):
I'm going to go back for a minute toour relationship with the agencies
and reiterate that Ithink our first step is to
defend these investments,
but I think that we also haveto contemplate an intermediate,
if not near term,
potential reality that these agenciesmay not be the same or they may not
(20:17):
exist at all. That wouldbe a seismic shift,
and I think we are faced there with a gap.
If you combine how much grantmoney was distributed by the three
agencies in fiscal '25, or I shouldsay budgeted to be distributed,
it was about 450 million. Abouta 135-137 million from the NEA,
(20:40):
110 and change from the NEH,and about 200 million from IMLS.
There's about 150 millionor 152 million taxpayers in
the United States. So on average,
about three bucks aperson who pays taxes has
made its way into the government and madeits way back out to the ecosystem. In
(21:02):
the event that we wake up onsome Thursday morning and read
that the NEA, the NEH,
and IMLS have effectivelybeen either defunded or
decommissioned... on the one hand,
we have a extremely distressing and sad
(21:23):
event. On the other hand,
we have an American public thatwe know values its museums,
its libraries, and its arts entities,
and I do think that if a
critical mass of our nationaladvocacy organizations
committed to work togetherto tell this story,
(21:46):
there's enough demand in theAmerican psyche for arts, culture,
museums, libraries, performances...
to get a campaign that would result in --
whether we look at it as 152million taxpayers each contributing
$3 each,
whether we look at it as QR codes onevery library card in America that link
(22:08):
to a campaign page,
whether we look at it as a 25cent or 50 cent contribution
tied electively to eachticket purchased for each
performance.
I think that if Americans for the Artsand the National Assembly of State Arts
Agencies and the TCGs and the Dance USAsand the Opera Americas and the Chorus
(22:29):
Americas and the League ofAmerican Orchestras, AAM, AAMD,
American Library Association, theState Arts and Humanities Councils,
the Trust for Historical Preservation,grant makers in the arts,
DeVos Institutes...
I think if these leadership organizationscame together and said to the American
public, we've lost this. Together,
(22:50):
we can build this.I think we have perhaps a once in a
generation opportunity tohave a conversation with the American public about the
role of arts and culture in Americathat could result in the unprecedented
elective contributionin lieu of money spent
through the federal government on artsand culture to a national campaign
(23:14):
to replace those budgets.
And I might think of it as somethingalong the lines of a Citizens Alliance for
Arts Libraries and Museums.
CALM.
Yeah. I want to be really clear,
this is not my favorite outcome.
My favorite outcome is that the agenciesare affirmed as pillars of a necessary
(23:39):
civil society. Hopefully thatwill be the outcome. If it's not,
I think we have an opportunity.
We have the opportunity to think aboutenhanced cause-based fundraising.
For every dollar that we lose, perhapsin a relationship with the government,
go for a reverse match with individualdonors who care about your cause and your
issues,
(23:59):
especially if we're saying electivelythat we're not going to pursue federal
funding because the guidelines havechanged and they are incompatible with our
values.
I think that there are plenty of waysto work with individual donors to think
about how we can replace that.
I think that this is a time that reallycalls for pushing aggressively with what
(24:19):
we would call institutional marketing,telling a story about why our mission,
why our impact matters. I think we'regoing to need to be thinking about cross
sector relationships. In particular,
I think the Arts Impact Explorer thatAFT has pulled together gives us really
beautiful ways to think about partneringwith some of the other hard hit
sectors (24:37):
Meals on Wheels or areas that receive Title 1 funding or environment or
education.
We have a whole variety of frontiersnow on which we can show our value and
really function as an elevatedproblem-solving partner.
I think there's a lot of possibilitythere where we can appeal not only to arts
funders,
but also to other funders who might seethey can spend the same dollar twice
(25:00):
funding an arts and culture nonprofitand helping to improve outcomes in the
environment or in education.Obviously this is not a new idea,
but I think that front is going to beincreasingly vibrant for us over the
course of the next five years.
I think we can anticipate that ourlocal arts agencies and our state arts
councils and our regional artscouncils are going to become even more
(25:23):
essential in advocating for therole that arts and culture can play,
particularly within the Title 1 area,
and particularly as that money makes itsway into state education agencies and
the local educational agencies truingup those relationships between our arts
advocates and state andlocal education agencies.
I think there's an opportunityfor us there, but I think safe,
(25:46):
ethical AI is something wehave to pay attention to.
We can increase our productivityby whopping amounts, 30%,
40%,
so we have the equivalent of an extraemployee for every three employees using
AI well. It's not 'wave a wand and ithappens.' It has to be done carefully.
We have to make sure we function in a waythat's humane and is respectful of the
(26:07):
work that artists could doand only artists could do,
but I think that there's a lot of gainthat we can make over the course of the
next few years in this area.So Christopher,
if we start to break things down intowhat we need to do in order to defend
ourselves and defend our advocates anddefend the pillars that we believe in,
and we think about maybesome of the openings,
(26:29):
maybe some of the openings that we didn'tchoose. We didn't choose this moment,
but it's here.
We're being acted upon and we needto think of more areas in which we
can react with action andnot confuse statements
and essays and analysis for action.
That's not to say I don't thinkcalling congresspeople is worthwhile.
(26:49):
We have to do it. Of course wedo. We have to fight that fight.
At the same time, are there steps thatwe can take to recreate or rethink?
We are being rethought.
I think it's time we have to rethink aswell. And really the last thing I would
say, Christopher, I hopethat the next season,
political season, let's call it the nextthree years, next three or four years,
(27:12):
I hope that this will be an opportunityfor our sector, arts, culture,
humanities, literary,
and adjacent fields towork with a capacious
sense of grace andtolerance toward each other.
There is an extraordinary and Ithink quite beautiful spectrum
(27:32):
of diversity of thought anddiversity of background and
diversity of hyperlocalcircumstance in our country's arts
and culture ecosystem.Urban, rural, affluent,
historically underinvested,racial, economic,
belief system. I mean,the diversity is enormous,
(27:55):
and there are major flashpointscoming up. Just this week,
the Trump administration issueda call for 250 sculptures.
They're offering what looks like$200,000 per commission to create
a Garden of American Heroes.
Artists are being called into actionto create a Garden of American Heroes.
(28:17):
There's a lot of money behind this.
Certain artists are going to lookat this and say, I can't abide that,
and that's not something I'm going to do.
Certain artists are goingto look at that and say,
I've lost a lot of other opportunities.
I need to look at this in orderto keep my practice going.
And there's going tobe a fault line there.
There's going to be a fault lineabout who wants to continue to work in
institutions like the Kennedy Center,
(28:39):
who wants to go there and performand who says, I can't abide it.
There's going to be a fault linearound who continues to retain
the use of words like diversity,equity, and inclusion,
and institutions that say,for one reason or another,
we need to find other language.
There's going to be a fault line aroundorganizations that apply for NEA funding
(28:59):
and organizations who say,we don't align anymore.
There's going to be organizationsthat choose to participate in the semi
quincentennial -- Has everyone learnedthis word yet? I know it took me a while.
Semi quincentennial --and organizations who say,
I don't want to be part of that eventhough it pains me because I would love to
celebrate our nation,
but I'm not sure I can get with theway in which it's being done. These
(29:23):
fault lines are here. They'regoing to get more exacting.
And I think that we have anopportunity as a sector as much as
possible to be tolerantof different perspectives
and assume goodwill while holdingrigorous discussion and debate,
while holding each other to account,
(29:45):
while showing a respectfullistening posture.
Also really leaning in and tryingto understand the truth that others
experience,
but remaining aware of the factthat if we stand any chance of
getting people outside of the sector,
especially those who feel like our workisn't for them, to pay attention to us,
we're going to have to be ableto listen to each other first.
(30:08):
And I think that this next four yearsis going to present us with plenty of
opportunities to splinter andplenty of opportunities to step back
and breathe and recognize the humanityin each other. And even if we disagree,
to understand and assume goodwill, becauseI think in four years or five years,
if we start to see thechange or maybe the return to
(30:32):
principles that I thinkmost of us hold very dear,
the best chance that we have is witha sector that has embraced its own
diversity and has tried to keep asmany doors to conversation open as
possible.And I think this is a strength of ours,
and if we can recommit to this overthe course of the next four years,
we will stand a chance as asector that is extremely diverse,
(30:55):
but unified in an essential sense.
And that doesn't mean unifiedin all ways of thinking,
and it doesn't mean notholding ourselves to account,
but it does mean operating with a senseof tolerance and goodwill toward each
other that we will be able to make adifference in the world beyond the sector
that I think many of us seek.
(31:15):
Well said. Brett, thankyou so much for being here.
Christopher, you guys are thebest. Thanks for the work you do.
See you on the other side.
Hi, everyone. Dan here.So before we sign off,
let's do a quick round of CI-lebritysightings where we celebrate CI clients
(31:37):
making headlines. First up,big news from Juilliard.
They're launching a $550million fundraising campaign to make their programs
completely tuition free.According to the New York Times,
it's a bold step towardsmaking a Juilliard education more accessible for future
artists. We love to seeit. Over in Kentucky,
the Sentinel News highlightedthe incredible reach of the Louisville Orchestra's
(31:58):
In Harmony tour:
free community concerts that havealready brought music to more than 34,000
people across 43 counties.
What an inspiring way to shareclassical music far and wide.
And in California,
San Diego Theatres is getting readyto celebrate the Civic Theatre's 60th
anniversary with a major renovation.
Broadway World reported that upgradeswill include a refreshed lobby,
(32:21):
modern restrooms, and new plaza amenities,
all aimed at creating a more welcoming,accessible experience for guests.
Cheers to that! Snaps toall these organizations for making the arts more open,
inviting, and inspiring. Got a storythat deserves a shout out? Well,
tag us on social and let us know.
(32:48):
Thank you for listening to CI to Eye.
This episode was edited and produced byKaren McConarty and co-written by Karen
McConarty and myself, Dan Titmuss.
Stephanie Medina and Jess Berube are CIto Eye's designers and video editors,
and all work together tocreate CI's digital content.
Our music is by whoisuzo. Ifyou enjoyed today's episode,
(33:09):
please take a moment torate us or leave a review.
A nice comment goes a long way in helpingother people discover CI to Eye and
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(33:30):
You can also sign up for our newsletterat capacityinteractive.com so you never
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please click the subscribe buttonwherever you get your podcasts.
Until next time, stay nerdy.
Hey everybody, it's ChristopherWilliams. Today on the podcast,
we are welcoming back Brett Egan,
president of the DeVos Instituteof Arts and Nonprofit Management.
Brett joins us at a criticalmoment for our sector.
Recent political shifts in the UnitedStates, including executive orders,
proposed agency closures, and changesto our federal funding guidelines,
(00:31):
have placed cultural organizations atthe center of a national conversation
about how institutions uphold their valuesand navigate their role in a rapidly
changing America. In this episode,
Brett helps us navigatethe latest developments,
offering insight into therisks organizations face and the bold opportunities
that might emerge fromthis turbulent time.
(00:54):
We'll talk about how to preparefor threats to our industry,
like shrinking grant funding,increasing restrictions on our speech,
and instability in higher educationand international relations,
but we'll also explore a proactive outlookand rethink what resilience means for
our industry moving forward.
If you're wondering how to lead with bothcourage and pragmatism when the ground
(01:17):
keeps shifting underneath ourfeet, this conversation is for you.
Without further ado, here's Brett Egan.
Brett Egan, welcome back to CI to Eye.
(01:38):
Thanks, Christopher.
The last time you werehere was five years ago,
which that in and of itselffeels like a crazy thing to say,
but it was days after the March 2020
Covid shutdown.
And you recorded an episode ofthe podcast with our founder Erik
(01:59):
Gensler,
which quite frankly holds up really welltoday when you go back and listen to
it. It's quite interesting.
So there are things afoot in the worldagain today, and so here you are,
hopefully back to giveus some of your sage
guidance.
I appreciate that, Christopher.
Some days it feels like it's been like35 years since that talk with Erik.
(02:21):
Don't we get -- eachCovid year was a dog year.
We get seven years creditfor each of those dog years.
Yeah, that is a very --
It's been 26 years sincemy discussion with Erik,
and in some cases it feels likeit was just yesterday. I mean,
when the fifth anniversary of Covid blewby I guess almost exactly a month ago,
it sort of left me breathless thinkingthat it's actually been five years.
(02:42):
Because a lot of theimpacts have left traces
and we're still workingthrough them. But yeah,
that conversation with Erik cameat a time when the world went
sideways, and so wheneverI feel distressed,
I try to put together a plan. Youmight even call it a neurosis,
and I suppose we find ourselveshere in a different form of 50
(03:06):
shades of darkness lookingfor similar structure.
So what has brought ustogether is our combined desire
to discuss what has beenhappening in the world,
but more specifically what ishappening to arts and culture as a
result of the administration.
(03:26):
And you have made quite astudy of some of that so
far, I know.
I know that not everyone canstay on top of all of this.
Some people very much choose to ignoreit because it's just more than they can
handle.
But can we start by justdoing a broad overview
of what has happened so far?
(03:47):
And I should say we are recording thisat 10:30 in the morning on Friday,
April 25th,
and I think everyone will understand thatwe have to say things like that these
days because there are things that areconstantly coming at us and changing.
Depending on when you'relistening to this,
it might be importantfor you to know the date.
Well, here's my responseto that, Christopher.
Thank goodness we have institutionslike the National Council of Nonprofits
(04:12):
and Americans for the Arts thatare keeping tabs on this daily.
I have grown to really rely on theirsynthesis and consult with their
resources as often as I can, tryingto make sense of the changes,
make sense of what has been said and whatthis means for all of us. It's a mess.
It's a total mess and thereare huge areas of uncertainty
(04:34):
and it's exhausting to try tokeep up with it. As of right now,
the two executive orders 14173,
which was illegal DEI, and 14168,
which is gender ideology,
those are the two that were issuedearly on that remain the most relevant
executive orders,
and we are still in a gray space as towhether or not those two executive orders
(04:58):
are or are not going to have animpact on what the National Endowment
for the Arts will fund. The NationalEndowment for the Arts has said that it
is undertaking a process of internalreview and it will clarify its position in
respect to whether or not those twoEOs are going to be taken into account
specifically within theassurance of compliance.
(05:19):
And the question really is whetheror not the NEA will be formally and
finally changing its guidelines inresponse to those two executive orders.
And I don't have the answerto that. As far as I know,
nobody has the answer to that as wesit here today. In principle, April 30,
we'll see. When this podcast is released,
NEA is meant to producesome clarity there and
(05:41):
there will be implicationsfor programs and
possibly speech that intersects with the
at present definition of illegal DEI
and gender ideology. Iwill remind our listeners,
I'm sure folks are followingalong on this very closely,
(06:03):
that is the subject of thecurrent suit filed by ACLU
in partnership with TCG,Theater Communications Group,
group of theaters of Rhode Island...That is under injunction as well,
at present. It is a tangle of issues,
and there was anotherslate of executive orders,
which just was released this week thatpertains to the field of education,
(06:23):
and I think people are still unpackingwhat the relevance of those are for arts
and culture, but that's -- so far as Iunderstand it -- where we stand today.
What about our museum andlibrary friends and things
that are happening to IMLS and theNEH? What are your thoughts there?
The situation there is both of theagencies, for practical purposes,
(06:46):
have been at least temporarilyshuttered or destabilized to the
point where they would havea very hard time functioning,
including making grants.
And I think that we all know that inthe case of IMLS and in the case of NEH,
previously made grants have in somecases been suspended or been recalled.
We also know that, for instance,
(07:07):
grants to state humanitiescouncils have stopped,
and this is really devastatingto the state humanities councils.
I fully expect and I think we willsee that many of the state humanities
councils,
and in particular those who servicemore rural areas of the country,
will cease to operatewithin a matter of months.
There's a crisis there for sure.
(07:28):
Yeah.
What have you heard from yourclients or friends in the sector
as we've all sort of experienced whatjust basically generally feels like an
attack over the last fewmonths? What are you hearing?
How are people feeling?
Yeah, it's a very confusing,
(07:49):
vexing and overwhelming time for many,
and I think that we are sortof as a sector grappling
with two vectors ofpsychological activity.
One (08:02):
as I think generally sentient, conscientious, thoughtful people,
we have a concern for our nation.We have a concern for our democracy.
We have a concern for our institutions.
We are questioning the core values of our
nation, whether they're shared,
but then when we drop down and we go toour office and we sit in front of our
(08:25):
computer and we're looking in our inboxand we're thinking about payroll and
we're thinking about cashflow,
there are also the second layerof concerns about how that
filters down into our business.
And here there are a dozenvectors at least that we're
dealing with,
and it's a mess to untangle andit is overwhelming to think about.
(08:48):
Right.
One of the experiences that I'veshared with you is my front row seat to
what has happened to the Kennedy Center.
My organization has worked with thatorganization for a very long time.
It is a daily trauma to sit next to.
I don't think any of us could haveimagined that something like this would
happen, and happen this quickly.
(09:09):
And I have tremendous empathy forall of my personal and professional
relationships that still existinside of that organization.
It's definitely still happening to manypeople that a lot of us care about,
and it's been acomplicated thing, I think,
for the industry to engagewith because it's sort of like,
to boycott or not?
(09:31):
What does it mean to pull your supportwhen those people are still there?
It's super complicated and you made thepoint in a previous conversation that
all of this has put arts andculture back on the front pages,
above the fold, and whatdoes that mean for all of us?
How can we actually take advantageof the fact that that is happening?
(09:53):
Yeah. Well, when I look at what'shappened at the Kennedy Center,
I share your concern and I share yourcompassion for the people who are
affected by the changethat's taking place there.
There's a lot of suffering and there'sa good deal of contest and some
litigation and that's going to play out.
And I think it is not a phenomenonthat we necessarily would've chosen,
(10:15):
that would've transpired in this way,
but it is a phenomenon that theNational Endowment for the Arts,
the National Endowment forHumanities, the I-M-L-S-C-B-P,
the Kennedy Center, these massivepillars of American arts, culture,
humanities,
which for most of recent memory have
not been headline items, are nowheadline items with consistency.
(10:39):
I think the sector has aquestion ahead of it, which is,
is there some use to make of thefact that the work that we do,
that we have always felt iscentral to civil society,
is critical to American democracy,
is an essential tool forself-realization and the affirmation
of the huge and incredible diversityand pluralism of identities in our
(11:03):
country...We believe these things and in a sense,
the actions that have beenrecently taken affirm that.
Not perhaps in the way in which wewould want. Nonetheless, we're here.
I mean the spotlight thatthe administration has shown on the power of arts
and culture,
the power of arts and culture tohelp define the psyche of a nation,
(11:24):
to facilitate ideas,
to be a place of welcomeand belonging or be a place
of ideological contest.
We have the opportunity as a sectorto look at the changes that are taking
place and say, well, does thatproduce any opening for us?
Does it produce any opening for us tothink in a different way or does it
(11:47):
produce any opening for us to have adifferent type of conversation with
ourselves or with the nation? I'vestarted to try to come around to,
how do we organize our thinking here?And the framework that I've settled on
is the following. There are certainlythings that we cannot control.
We are not going to be ableto affect the global economy.
We are probably not going to be able toaffect the way in which global society
(12:11):
views American decision making.
We don't have the power most likely toproduce a megaphone that is going to
outweigh the headlines that come out ofthe global press on a daily basis that
are reflecting upon changestaking place in our country.
And I think even though these concernus and they concern us deeply,
we have to put those in one column andwe have to build another column that
(12:34):
says, okay, here are thethings that we can control,
areas that we need to defend ourselvesand we need to defend our institutions.
And then also areas where we mightbe able to make some progress. Or,
what we might call defense and offense.
Let's get into that. Where dowe start? Offense or defense?
We're going to start with defense.
(12:55):
So the first huge cluster obviouslywithin the context of defense is the arts
and culture sector's relationshipwith the federal government,
and the first focal point is the agencies.
IMLS, NEH, NEA, CVP.
One thing we can certainly dois rally to the defense of the
agencies that are taking thelead, and I think it's AFTA, AAM,
(13:20):
the American Library Association,the National Council of Nonprofits,
and there are others,
and all of them have putforward frameworks for communicating with Congress.
Second, for anybody who hasreceived a grant termination,
especially our friends in the humanities,
working through the NationalCouncil of Nonprofits.
They appear to be the tip ofthe spear in pushing back.
Also in the defense category,
(13:41):
I think we have to begin toconsider that the money that we
have received from theagencies... Unfortunately,
I think at this point we haveto consider it a nice-to-have,
not a must-have as we move through.And we have to deal with it.
It's emotional, it's unfair.
Aspects of it may be oncontestable legal grounds,
(14:03):
the speed is shocking, butreally it's not surprising.
So should we rally to the defense ofthese institutions? Of course we should.
Absolutely. Is it going to make adifference this time with this congress?
I don't know. Time will tell.
The odds look a bit worse todaythan they did in previous cycles,
so how do we think aboutmoney in our own budgets?
(14:26):
It's different for sure moving forward.
The other big thing obviously that we'recontending with on the defense side is
speech. This one is tough.
EO 14173, which was thequote illegal DEI EO,
and then 14168, which is genderideology -- both of these, obviously,
they have funding implications in sofar as they intersect with the agencies,
(14:49):
but they also have clearspeech implications and the fights that are going on in
the courts in respect to the two ofthese are referencing first amendment and
speech issues.
But we are in a gray zone right now.We're in a gray zone right now about how
this might be enforced and uponwhom. Now the big question is,
do we remove our languagenow from our website?
(15:09):
What does it mean to acquiesce?What does it mean to push back?
And what are going to be theimplications of those two courses?
I don't think there's a standard.
I think these are individual debates thatsomehow we have been pulled into that
we have to settle at theorganization level. But then again,
I also really ask organizations tothink, what is the exact pressure?
(15:31):
What is the exact pressure thatwe're facing to change our language?
Is there a specific grant at thispoint that we're not going to get,
we feel we should get and we won't getunless we do it? Did we receive a letter?
Are we worried that we might receivea letter and are we acting too soon?
I'm not advising any of my colleagues,
certainly not the ones whodo not rely upon big grants
(15:56):
from the federal government,
to make any changes at all ifthey still hold the same values.
In fact,
I am seeing certain organizationsactually double down on their language and
their commitments in particular principlesof DEI and doing quite well with
individual donors who agree with themand foundations that agree with them.
I just want to ask peopleto discern between,
(16:18):
is there a direct catalyst that forcesaction and do you wish to take action or
do you wish to tell the catalyst we don'tneed you if you can afford to do that?
Another thing really onmy mind, Christopher,
is universities and university-basedarts programs. And as we start to see
our universities imperiled inmany cases -- in many cases,
(16:39):
it's not like theadministration is saying,
we're cutting arts funding to theuniversities. We know that's not the case,
but when you see universities losinga billion dollars here and $6 billion
here in research money and you realizethat inside of that research money,
a significant chunk of it pays foradministrative overhead and facilities,
of course it's going to trickle down.
(16:59):
And so in the universitycontext in particular,
one thing that I think donors can do,
and one thing I thinkadministrators can do,
is start to have this conversationnow and talk about what
impacts may be coming nextfiscal and to prepare for that.
And then the other sort of big thing asit pertains to the federal government is
(17:24):
just international relations and impactsfor US arts organizations and artists,
for any arts organization or artist whohas enjoyed a sense of global community.
Sadly, the position of the US inthe global discussion is changing,
and I think it's going tohave an impact on touring,
on international cooperation,and in many cases,
(17:46):
the money that arts and culturalorganizations based in the US derive from
international participation.
Yeah. I've literally heard from a numberof organizations already stories about
international artists saying,
'We are not comfortable comingto the US' and pulling away.
Yeah, there's, do people want tocome here? The list is endless,
(18:08):
right? I mean, let me move onto the economy for a minute.
There's obviously the tariffs, theimpact on 401Ks, the uncertainty.
That's not good for us, right?
We're definitely looking out at fiscal'26 with conservative contributed revenue
projections. We'reabsolutely recalibrating.
We are anticipating thepossible impact of a recession.
(18:29):
When we think back about whichrecession is most likely to
resemble the one that'scoming up if we have one,
I think unfortunately it's2008, which was the hardest.
But during that time,foundations were most reliable.
Individuals were second most helpful.
Government historicallyhad been pretty supportive,
(18:50):
but I wouldn't count onthat this fall or early '26,
especially not for arts andculture. And then corporate, sadly,
in every recession, artshave been cut first.
So I would say sort of as weapproach this upcoming fiscal season,
on the defense side,
obviously there's a huge cluster aboutthe relationship with the federal
(19:11):
government. There's a clusteraround the changing economy,
and I think there's one cluster aroundcontinuing to deal with audiences,
the potential of recession and sort ofongoing distraction that they have as
well.And this leads me to think
if we can a little bit moreassertively about getting off our heels
(19:34):
and onto our toes.
The defense of all of thisis fairly overwhelming,
and I know you have somegreat ideas about how
we can make moves offensively,
and I would love for youto take us up if we can.
Yeah.
(19:54):
I'm going to go back for a minute toour relationship with the agencies
and reiterate that Ithink our first step is to
defend these investments,
but I think that we also haveto contemplate an intermediate,
if not near term,
potential reality that these agenciesmay not be the same or they may not
(20:17):
exist at all. That wouldbe a seismic shift,
and I think we are faced there with a gap.
If you combine how much grantmoney was distributed by the three
agencies in fiscal '25, or I shouldsay budgeted to be distributed,
it was about 450 million. Abouta 135-137 million from the NEA,
(20:40):
110 and change from the NEH,and about 200 million from IMLS.
There's about 150 millionor 152 million taxpayers in
the United States. So on average,
about three bucks aperson who pays taxes has
made its way into the government and madeits way back out to the ecosystem. In
(21:02):
the event that we wake up onsome Thursday morning and read
that the NEA, the NEH,
and IMLS have effectivelybeen either defunded or
decommissioned... on the one hand,
we have a extremely distressing and sad
(21:23):
event. On the other hand,
we have an American public thatwe know values its museums,
its libraries, and its arts entities,
and I do think that if a
critical mass of our nationaladvocacy organizations
committed to work togetherto tell this story,
(21:46):
there's enough demand in theAmerican psyche for arts, culture,
museums, libraries, performances...
to get a campaign that would result in --
whether we look at it as 152million taxpayers each contributing
$3 each,
whether we look at it as QR codes onevery library card in America that link
(22:08):
to a campaign page,
whether we look at it as a 25cent or 50 cent contribution
tied electively to eachticket purchased for each
performance.
I think that if Americans for the Artsand the National Assembly of State Arts
Agencies and the TCGs and the Dance USAsand the Opera Americas and the Chorus
(22:29):
Americas and the League ofAmerican Orchestras, AAM, AAMD,
American Library Association, theState Arts and Humanities Councils,
the Trust for Historical Preservation,grant makers in the arts,
DeVos Institutes...
I think if these leadership organizationscame together and said to the American
public, we've lost this. Together,
(22:50):
we can build this.I think we have perhaps a once in a
generation opportunity tohave a conversation with the American public about the
role of arts and culture in Americathat could result in the unprecedented
elective contributionin lieu of money spent
through the federal government on artsand culture to a national campaign
(23:14):
to replace those budgets.
And I might think of it as somethingalong the lines of a Citizens Alliance for
Arts Libraries and Museums.
CALM.
Yeah. I want to be really clear,
this is not my favorite outcome.
My favorite outcome is that the agenciesare affirmed as pillars of a necessary
(23:39):
civil society. Hopefully thatwill be the outcome. If it's not,
I think we have an opportunity.
We have the opportunity to think aboutenhanced cause-based fundraising.
For every dollar that we lose, perhapsin a relationship with the government,
go for a reverse match with individualdonors who care about your cause and your
issues,
(23:59):
especially if we're saying electivelythat we're not going to pursue federal
funding because the guidelines havechanged and they are incompatible with our
values.
I think that there are plenty of waysto work with individual donors to think
about how we can replace that.
I think that this is a time that reallycalls for pushing aggressively with what
(24:19):
we would call institutional marketing,telling a story about why our mission,
why our impact matters. I think we'regoing to need to be thinking about cross
sector relationships. In particular,
I think the Arts Impact Explorer thatAFT has pulled together gives us really
beautiful ways to think about partneringwith some of the other hard hit
sectors (24:37):
Meals on Wheels or areas that receive Title 1 funding or environment or
education.
We have a whole variety of frontiersnow on which we can show our value and
really function as an elevatedproblem-solving partner.
I think there's a lot of possibilitythere where we can appeal not only to arts
funders,
but also to other funders who might seethey can spend the same dollar twice
(25:00):
funding an arts and culture nonprofitand helping to improve outcomes in the
environment or in education.Obviously this is not a new idea,
but I think that front is going to beincreasingly vibrant for us over the
course of the next five years.
I think we can anticipate that ourlocal arts agencies and our state arts
councils and our regional artscouncils are going to become even more
(25:23):
essential in advocating for therole that arts and culture can play,
particularly within the Title 1 area,
and particularly as that money makes itsway into state education agencies and
the local educational agencies truingup those relationships between our arts
advocates and state andlocal education agencies.
I think there's an opportunityfor us there, but I think safe,
(25:46):
ethical AI is something wehave to pay attention to.
We can increase our productivityby whopping amounts, 30%,
40%,
so we have the equivalent of an extraemployee for every three employees using
AI well. It's not 'wave a wand and ithappens.' It has to be done carefully.
We have to make sure we function in a waythat's humane and is respectful of the
(26:07):
work that artists could doand only artists could do,
but I think that there's a lot of gainthat we can make over the course of the
next few years in this area.So Christopher,
if we start to break things down intowhat we need to do in order to defend
ourselves and defend our advocates anddefend the pillars that we believe in,
and we think about maybesome of the openings,
(26:29):
maybe some of the openings that we didn'tchoose. We didn't choose this moment,
but it's here.
We're being acted upon and we needto think of more areas in which we
can react with action andnot confuse statements
and essays and analysis for action.
That's not to say I don't thinkcalling congresspeople is worthwhile.
(26:49):
We have to do it. Of course wedo. We have to fight that fight.
At the same time, are there steps thatwe can take to recreate or rethink?
We are being rethought.
I think it's time we have to rethink aswell. And really the last thing I would
say, Christopher, I hopethat the next season,
political season, let's call it the nextthree years, next three or four years,
(27:12):
I hope that this will be an opportunityfor our sector, arts, culture,
humanities, literary,
and adjacent fields towork with a capacious
sense of grace andtolerance toward each other.
There is an extraordinary and Ithink quite beautiful spectrum
(27:32):
of diversity of thought anddiversity of background and
diversity of hyperlocalcircumstance in our country's arts
and culture ecosystem.Urban, rural, affluent,
historically underinvested,racial, economic,
belief system. I mean,the diversity is enormous,
(27:55):
and there are major flashpointscoming up. Just this week,
the Trump administration issueda call for 250 sculptures.
They're offering what looks like$200,000 per commission to create
a Garden of American Heroes.
Artists are being called into actionto create a Garden of American Heroes.
(28:17):
There's a lot of money behind this.
Certain artists are going to lookat this and say, I can't abide that,
and that's not something I'm going to do.
Certain artists are goingto look at that and say,
I've lost a lot of other opportunities.
I need to look at this in orderto keep my practice going.
And there's going tobe a fault line there.
There's going to be a fault lineabout who wants to continue to work in
institutions like the Kennedy Center,
(28:39):
who wants to go there and performand who says, I can't abide it.
There's going to be a fault linearound who continues to retain
the use of words like diversity,equity, and inclusion,
and institutions that say,for one reason or another,
we need to find other language.
There's going to be a fault line aroundorganizations that apply for NEA funding
(28:59):
and organizations who say,we don't align anymore.
There's going to be organizationsthat choose to participate in the semi
quincentennial -- Has everyone learnedthis word yet? I know it took me a while.
Semi quincentennial --and organizations who say,
I don't want to be part of that eventhough it pains me because I would love to
celebrate our nation,
but I'm not sure I can get with theway in which it's being done. These
(29:23):
fault lines are here. They'regoing to get more exacting.
And I think that we have anopportunity as a sector as much as
possible to be tolerantof different perspectives
and assume goodwill while holdingrigorous discussion and debate,
while holding each other to account,
(29:45):
while showing a respectfullistening posture.
Also really leaning in and tryingto understand the truth that others
experience,
but remaining aware of the factthat if we stand any chance of
getting people outside of the sector,
especially those who feel like our workisn't for them, to pay attention to us,
we're going to have to be ableto listen to each other first.
(30:08):
And I think that this next four yearsis going to present us with plenty of
opportunities to splinter andplenty of opportunities to step back
and breathe and recognize the humanityin each other. And even if we disagree,
to understand and assume goodwill, becauseI think in four years or five years,
if we start to see thechange or maybe the return to
(30:32):
principles that I thinkmost of us hold very dear,
the best chance that we have is witha sector that has embraced its own
diversity and has tried to keep asmany doors to conversation open as
possible.And I think this is a strength of ours,
and if we can recommit to this overthe course of the next four years,
we will stand a chance as asector that is extremely diverse,
(30:55):
but unified in an essential sense.
And that doesn't mean unifiedin all ways of thinking,
and it doesn't mean notholding ourselves to account,
but it does mean operating with a senseof tolerance and goodwill toward each
other that we will be able to make adifference in the world beyond the sector
that I think many of us seek.
(31:15):
Well said. Brett, thankyou so much for being here.
Christopher, you guys are thebest. Thanks for the work you do.
See you on the other side.
Hi, everyone. Dan here.So before we sign off,
let's do a quick round of CI-lebritysightings where we celebrate CI clients
(31:37):
making headlines. First up,big news from Juilliard.
They're launching a $550million fundraising campaign to make their programs
completely tuition free.According to the New York Times,
it's a bold step towardsmaking a Juilliard education more accessible for future
artists. We love to seeit. Over in Kentucky,
the Sentinel News highlightedthe incredible reach of the Louisville Orchestra's
(31:58):
In Harmony tour:
free community concerts that havealready brought music to more than 34,000
people across 43 counties.
What an inspiring way to shareclassical music far and wide.
And in California,
San Diego Theatres is getting readyto celebrate the Civic Theatre's 60th
anniversary with a major renovation.
Broadway World reported that upgradeswill include a refreshed lobby,
(32:21):
modern restrooms, and new plaza amenities,
all aimed at creating a more welcoming,accessible experience for guests.
Cheers to that! Snaps toall these organizations for making the arts more open,
inviting, and inspiring. Got a storythat deserves a shout out? Well,
tag us on social and let us know.
(32:48):
Thank you for listening to CI to Eye.
This episode was edited and produced byKaren McConarty and co-written by Karen
McConarty and myself, Dan Titmuss.
Stephanie Medina and Jess Berube are CIto Eye's designers and video editors,
and all work together tocreate CI's digital content.
Our music is by whoisuzo. Ifyou enjoyed today's episode,
(33:09):
please take a moment torate us or leave a review.
A nice comment goes a long way in helpingother people discover CI to Eye and
hear from experts in the arts and beyond.If you didn't enjoy today's episode,
pass it on to all of your enemies.Don't forget to follow us on Facebook,
Instagram, LinkedIn, YouTube,
and TikTok for regular contentto help you market smarter.
(33:30):
You can also sign up for our newsletterat capacityinteractive.com so you never
miss an update. And ifyou haven't already,
please click the subscribe buttonwherever you get your podcasts.
Until next time, stay nerdy.
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