March 27, 2025 • 43 mins
Great experiences don’t happen by accident—they’re designed with intention. From the first click on a website to the moment a visitor steps through your door to engagement after they leave, every interaction shapes how people feel about an organization. So what does it take to create a truly exceptional guest experience?
Emily O’Hara, Senior Director of Guest Experience at the Detroit Zoological Society, thinks about this every day. In this episode, she shares how the Detroit Zoo fosters personal connections and creates a welcoming, engaging environment for every guest. We explore practical strategies for delivering wildly good experiences that turn visitors into raving (and returning) fans.
CI to Eye with Emily O'Hara (1:30) – Dan and Emily discuss the growing importance of hospitality in arts and culture, making our venues more accessible with thoughtful accommodations, and the magic of penguin exhibits.
CI-lebrity Sightings (41:00) – Dan shares his favorite stories of CI clients in the news. This episode’s roundup includes ArtsEmerson, Boston Ballet, The Children’s Theater of Cincinnati, The Huntington Theatre, and San Francisco Symphony.
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LINKS:
WBUR | Free tickets drop for Boston kids as performance arts venues join city program
Broadway World | The Children's Theatre of Cincinnati Receives $2 Million Anonymous Challenge Gift
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:09):
Hello everyone. Dan here. So ifyou've been tuning in for a while,
you've probably heard us talk a lotabout audience hospitality-those little
things we can do to make someone'sexperience unforgettable and leave them
wanting more. In today'scompetitive landscape,
every touchpoint counts.
Audiences have infinite optionsof how to spend their time.
There are endless streaming platforms,the temptation of a cozy couch,
(00:32):
a new episode of The White Lotus ormy personal favorite, Below Deck...
So how do we stand out and get themto choose our venues instead? Well,
the answer isn't straightforward,but one thing is simple.
Exceptional guest experiences matter,
and those experiences don'tjust happen on their own.
They're designed with intention.
From the first click on a website tothe moment a visitor steps through your
(00:54):
door to engagement after they leave,
every interaction shapes how peoplefeel about your organization.
We wanted to learn more about what ittakes to create a truly exceptional guest
experience. So for today's episode,I sat down with Emily O'Hara,
senior director of guest experienceat the Detroit Zoological Society.
Emily shared how the Detroit Zoo fosterspersonal connections and creates a
(01:18):
welcoming, engagingenvironment for every guest.
We discussed practical strategies fordelivering wildly good experiences (get
it?) that turn visitors intoraving and returning fans.
I enjoyed this conversation somuch and I know you will too.
So without further ado,let's dive in, shall we?
(01:47):
I'm so excited to be sittingdown with Emily O'Hara,
the Senior Director of Guest Experienceat the Detroit Zoological Society,
a nonprofit organization that operatesboth the Detroit Zoo and Belle Isle
Nature Center. Emily,welcome to CI to Eye.
Thank you for having me.
I've been so excited about thispodcast interview because my major was
(02:07):
zoology. For a long time in my life,
I was on the careerpath of animal sciences.
I also lived right next to Chester Zoo,
which is one of the biggestzoos in the United Kingdom.
So much so that I could hear thesea lions barking in the morning,
and so I've always beenobsessed with zoos and
love anything to do with animals.
That's awesome. What isyour favorite animal?
(02:28):
Oh, ants. I love ants. Yeah, so Istudied rock ants at university.
I spent a long time looking at ants ona table and tracking them with a webcam.
It's a whole thing. I'm notsure if it was useful science,
but it was definitely science. Soyeah, anything to do with ants,
I could watch them for hours.What's your favorite animal?
So traditionally I say my favoriteanimal is a crested screamer,
(02:49):
which is a bird, a veryunique looking bird.
They used to live at the Detroit Zoo,
but the pair that lived here actuallymoved down to sunny Florida so that they
could be outdoors year round.
So now I say of the residentswho live at the Detroit Zoo,
scarlet ibis is currently my favorite.
Another bird that livesin our free flight aviary.
(03:12):
Amazing.
Watch the search volume on Google Trendsof crested screamers popping up after
this.
I know.
I do suggest you also go and watch aYouTube video of their vocalization.
They're a fun bird.
I'm definitely going to dothis after this interview.
Many arts and culture organizationsdon't have a dedicated director of guest
experiences. Tell us moreabout what your role entails.
(03:36):
So really it's lookingat the guest experience.
No matter whether you're here as a generaldaytime admission guest or here for
a special event, maybe one of ourevening hours, or even for a wedding,
we want to ensure that youare having a great experience,
that you are able to accessthe amenities that you need,
that you're able to enjoy time with thefamily members or friends who you're
(03:59):
visiting with, and ultimately that we'reable to connect you to our mission.
And so why is it important to havesomeone championing this work in an
organization?
It's really important to ensure that wedon't leave the guest experience behind,
and in some sense, wecan't operate without it.
Especially at cultural organizations,
the guest experience is essentialbecause oftentimes we have mission
(04:22):
messages that we're also trying to share.So for the Detroit Zoological Society,
we want to connect people,animals, and the natural world.
And oftentimes we're talkingabout conservation stories or work that we're doing
out around the world or even with theanimals who live either at the zoo or at
the nature center.
And you can't get to those messages ifyou haven't met your basic needs of your
(04:44):
guest. It's one of the, in some sense,
founding principles of why schools dofree breakfast or free lunch to make sure
that their learners are able to focuson what they want them to focus on.
So we have a similar philosophy in thatwe want to ensure that the guests who
come feel welcome but also are able tohave those basic needs met and that they
(05:06):
can kind of move past,
where am I going to go get lunch? How amI going to get to the bathroom in time
if my kid tells me he has to go?
We want you to be able to have thosethings taken care of so that you can start
to learn about some of the things thatwe are either doing here at the zoo
or some of our conservationefforts around the world.
(05:28):
We really want to make sure that we'reable to connect guests with those things
while they're having a great experience.
We also want to make sure you're havinga good time with the group that you came
with.
The highest reported reason why guestsare coming to our facilities are to spend
time with other people,
and we want to make sure that you canhave that quality time and be building
(05:48):
those memories together as well.And sometimes at the end of the day,
you are tired. It's been a long one.
We want to make sure that you haveaccess to restrooms on the way
out, that you can grab a wateror a snack for your drive home,
that you can really take that away sothat you can talk about the memories of
(06:08):
your day rather than gettingcaught up in the logistics or the
headaches of just adventuringout into the world.
Absolutely.
And it seems like your role is more commonat exhibit based organizations-things
like zoos, museums,aquariums, science centers.
But it's not as common maybe inperformance-based institutions.
And there are definitely exceptions tothat rule that we've talked about on the
(06:30):
podcast, but do you have anythought why that might be?
Yeah, so for an exhibitbased organization, we're building your experience.
So every time someone iscoming through the door,
we're kind of curating what it is basedon how we've set up the journey to go.
I do wonder if performance-basedinstitutions, because the thing you're doing,
(06:50):
it's kind of this external party is comingin and performing and you're sitting
there and taking it in,
the crafting of that experience kind ofhappens in a slightly different format.
Performance-based institutions are reallyengaging with their guests when they
arrive and right when they departand probably during intermission,
but not so much during those interimparts when the entertainment is being
(07:13):
provided.
And so I'm wondering if that is thatsplit that you're seeing when you're
looking across cultural organizations?
Yeah, definitely. It feels likevisiting an exhibit based organization,
the experience is the whole thing,
whereas at a performancebased institution,
often the thought is that the experienceyou're getting is just the bit where
(07:33):
the curtain goes up and maybe weneed to rethink that a little.
And in some sense there are certainpoints in the interaction where it is very
much the same. We're ticket taking, right?
Trying to get folks in through the doors.
And we want to ensure that theticket buying process was clear.
You know what you're expecting. Wedo have amenities, right? Restrooms,
(07:53):
vending of some sort, whether it'srestaurants or other dining offerings,
and then ultimately, can you get backto your car or back to public transit?
How are you getting home afterwards?
So ensuring that we'recovering those things.
I think we definitely still havea lot of overlaps with each other.
Yeah.
What's the first moment and last momentyou want a visitor to experience at
(08:15):
Detroit Zoo?
So ideally we want youto come in and say, whoa.
We're really excited to enter this place.
We did go through rebranding this lastyear and we focused on our main entry,
so we wanted to make sure that we hadlight pole banners and big signage,
and we have a giant photo op that youcan get a family photo with as you're
(08:35):
walking up to our main admissiongates so that you have that
excitement, that new energy alreadybuilding on your way into the zoo.
What do you want guests tofeel when they leave the zoo?
What's the primary feelingyou are aiming for?
I'm hoping joy. We really want tomake sure that you had a joyous day.
(08:56):
It is a tricky thing in that theend of the day can be exhausting
depending on the weather thatday. It might've been hot,
it might've been really cold, you mighthave a hike to get back to your car.
So we want to make sure to makethat exit as smooth as we can
so that you can be talkingabout the awesome time that you had at the zoo rather
(09:17):
than complaining about being tired orI have to go to the bathroom or I'm
hungry or thirsty.
It feels like you really thoughtabout hospitality in such a deep way,
and there's so many aspectsof that visitor experience that you've thought about
in their entire journeythrough the zoo and after.
How do you prioritizewhich areas to focus on?
(09:38):
Do you conduct any focus groupsor audience behavior research?
So we have a variety of methods. Sowe're always collecting visitor feedback,
so we send experience surveysafter guests come to visit,
and we do that for both our daytimeguests as well as for events.
Last year we were able to bring in agroup to do a specialized accessibility
survey as well,
(09:59):
and that has really helped becauseespecially if you're talking a zoo,
we've been around for a long time,
so we have infrastructure that hasbeen potentially grandfathered in,
but there are better practicesthat we can institute.
So we're going back through that andprioritizing what reaches more guests,
what are things that we can make changeson that can impact across the board.
(10:21):
I mean,
the great thing about accessibility isthat one accessible change that may be
targeted for a certain groupor individual helps across the
board. Curb cuts are alwaysused as the standard example of,
curb cuts help strollers.
Curb cuts help people who use wheelchairs.Curb cuts help if you have a dolly
and you're just trying tomove stuff across an area.
(10:43):
So we want to be prioritizing thosethings that can really help across the
board. And then there's alsojust resource limitations,
so making sure as you alluded to,we can't do everything all at once,
but we're really trying to ensure thatwe're hitting the things that are the
biggest pain points first sothat those aren't lingering.
(11:05):
We always want to make sure that we'reacting on those things to the best of our
ability so that we can get to the thingsthat will really enhance the guest
experience -- some of those fun, whimsy...
the things that we can really touch ononce you get past the basics of what the
limitations are.
I mean,
(11:25):
the fun and whimsy sort of side of stuffis obviously the bit that people maybe
focus on. I can imagine it'd bequite easy to go for the shiny thing,
go for a new photo activationor guest activation bit.
Whereas what you actually need to do isdo all the base work that you've done
first.
Oh yeah.
And one of the other things that wedo is regular walks with our team and
(11:47):
across the organization.
So I do a weekly walk with our head offacilities just to make sure that he and
I are on the same page abouthow are we prioritizing repairs,
how are we prioritizing upgrades todifferent areas -- particularly, again,
our restrooms, oursidewalks, our fencing --
so that we are in alignment withwhat we want to tackle next.
(12:09):
Have you ever had any really surprising,
counterintuitive things you've learnedthrough either your walkthroughs or your
research? Any light bulb moments?
One of the things that has stuck withme for years now from market research is
the idea of accessible institutionsfrom a financial perspective
and the idea that just because a certaingroup of people isn't coming to your
(12:33):
institution,
it doesn't mean they can't afford tocome because you might make it free,
but if you're not welcoming to them,
if they don't feel like it'sa place that they belong,
they're still not going to come.
All the free tickets in the world aren'tgoing to make somebody come to your
institution if they don'tfeel like it's meant for them.
So that is also something that we reallystrive to ensure that we're conveying
(12:57):
through our marketing efforts,
through ensuring that when we have alot of different visitors who come visit
our campuses, that we have amenitiesavailable, that they can feel comfortable,
and that they can know they belong here.
It's always stuck with me because Ithink it's a default when folks say, oh,
such and such are not coming to ourcampuses. Oftentimes the default is,
(13:18):
just give them free tickets and they'llcome. And that doesn't solve it.
It doesn't fix the problem.
I think there's a parallel there. We'veoften talked about diversity, inclusion,
and accessibility of having the doorunlocked versus having the door open.
Sure, people can go and openthe door if they want to,
but by truly welcoming people,
by opening the door andinviting them in wholeheartedly,
(13:42):
then it makes such ahuge difference, I think.
We encountered that in the last year.
Last year we had a couple of sensoryfriendly evenings, and again,
it was an effort to say we want to bemore welcoming to guests who have sensory
sensitivities or sensory needs.
So we had some sensory friendly hoursand it was from three to seven three
(14:03):
times last year where we advertisedand were hoping to have folks come in.
And I'm really glad that we listenedto people who either came or people who
didn't come that said, you know what?Dinner time's not the best time.
We have routines, we needto stick to those routines.
So that didn't work for them. Alsoknowing, well, these three random dates,
(14:26):
there's no consistency. I can'tbuild a schedule around that.
And so what we ended up doing was wejust shifted our model and said...
This year we shifted to the secondMonday of every month from opening to
noon are sensory friendly hours.And that way our families who we're
working with can planmonths ahead of time,
(14:46):
consistently see whatworks for their schedule.
It worked better for them as faras time of day, morning time,
you can do something that maybeis out of the norm a little bit.
But that was just one exampleof where we had an idea of, oh,
we want to help this group ofguests who haven't been coming,
and we had to make adjustments.
(15:07):
We had to really listen and find out howcan we continue to improve on opening
that door and having it be open ratherthan just unlocked. I like that.
Yeah, for sure. Out of interest,
what other accommodations do youmake for sensory friendly audiences?
So our main thing is we canmake adjustments to some of our attractions around
the campus. When you enterthe zoo right up at the front,
(15:30):
the Pope Penguin Conservation Center isthe spectacular two story building that
houses five different species of penguins.
And as part of thatexperience when you walk in,
we have a ramp that you start in SouthAmerica and then you go down the ramp and
you cross Drake's Passageto go toward Antarctica.
And when you're on Drake's Passage,there is projection all around you.
(15:52):
It is sunny. A sea shanty's playing inthe background under the blue skies,
but then it turns to a storm. And sodepending on where you are in the cycle,
there can be water spray. The wholeroom feels like it's kind of moving,
it can be loud. So for oursensory sensitivity mornings,
we have the lightspartially up in that ramp,
and then we keep it ondaytime the whole time.
(16:14):
So you still get the nice experiencewithout some of the unpredictability of
that. Also, we have a 4Dtheater on our campus,
and so we can run thatwithout all the effects,
so you won't have the air blowing inyour face and we can do our lights
partially up. Those are the kindsof modifications that we're making.
Amazing. That penguinexhibition sounds phenomenal.
(16:36):
I've never ever seen someone leavea penguin exhibition unhappy.
They're such joyful animals,just watching them on the glass,
watching them dive through, andit looks like they're playing.
I don't know if they are, butit looks like they're playing.
Yeah, and the great thing I willsay with the five different species,
they kind of hang out in differentareas. They have different habits.
(16:58):
The king penguins love -- wehave a snow machine ice maker.
They will stand under it and have littlepeaks of snow just falling over them.
The chinstrap penguins are almostalways swimming around in the water.
They're super active.
And then the macaroni and rockhopperpenguins are often near that kind of South
American glass. We're goinginto breeding season soon,
(17:18):
so they're going to bemoving rocks around.
They use rocks to build their nests andkind of present rocks to each other.
And so soon that habitat's going tobe full of all kinds of rocks that the
penguins can take and manipulate andmove around to their nesting areas.
Oh my goodness, magical.I love that so much.
You mentioned before the rebrand.
And you served on the organization'score team for new brand development.
(17:43):
Can you walk us through some of theelements that were designed to make the
guest experience evenbetter with this rebrand?
Yeah, so with the rebrand,
it really was about shifting the DetroitZoological Society and the Detroit
Zoo to ensure that we had thingsthat were digitally friendly,
but then when you're on campus,we wanted to make sure that again,
it was welcoming, friendly,
(18:05):
really conveyed the feeling and thespirit that we wanted to get across.
So our new logo has the O's of the zooact as these containers that we can also
have animals walk through. Weuse video superimposed behind it.
We'll also have people kind of poppingout of them and breaking kind of the
shape a little bit as well to really looklike they're integrated with the logo.
(18:28):
And that was a way for us to highlightthat people are essential as well.
And then the other big part ofthe rebrand was the color palette.
We went through and reallywanted bright saturated
colors that worked togetheragain in a fun way,
and we've really rolledthat out across our campus.
(18:49):
We painted some roofs last year thinkingabout how that integrates into the
finishes of our built environment as well,
so that it isn't always justin signage or just in digital
formats, but how can we then integrateit into our full campus plan?
So how do you use data to measure theimpact of hospitality initiatives?
(19:11):
Are there key metrics or visitorbehaviors that you track?
Yes. So I mentioned that we doguest experience feedback surveys,
and this is one of thosefair, poor, good, excellent,
and outstanding.
So we do have that kind ofbaseline guest experience question
as a KPI. So we are trackingthat percentage year after year,
(19:35):
but we have other questions on the surveythat we are also paying attention to.
'Likelihood to recommend' wedefinitely look at very closely.
And then for us as a zoo,
we have very specific questionsaround conservation messaging,
animal visibility, and thensimilar across other boards.
Our dining and retail also get alot of feedback that we're usually
(19:58):
looking at there.
And then the other piece of data thatwe've started to integrate more fully are
reviews on social media sites.
So what comments are we gettingon Google reviews, Yelp,
TripAdvisor, and then what are guestscommenting on social media posts?
So we really integrate with ourcommunications team to ensure that we're
capturing those things and looking atthem holistically across the board.
(20:22):
I think some leaders see hospitalityas maybe a nice to have rather than a
necessity. What's yourresponse to this perspective?
How would you argue that hospitalityis essential to long-term success?
I think hospitality is essential toensuring that you have ongoing support of
your community, of yourguests, of your visitors,
of the people who live inand around your institutions.
(20:45):
We want to make surethat we're integrated,
that we are providing a community service,
and part of that is providing agreat experience when you visit.
So to me,
it is essential for that long-term successto ensure that you're thriving beyond
just today.
We want to make sure that we'rein existence decades, centuries,
(21:06):
into the future.
We just had our 95th anniversary andstarting in that planning for that
hundredth anniversary and thinking aboutkeeping an organization going for a
hundred years requires that buy-in,
requires that you have people whowant to keep coming back and want to
keep supporting both the experience aswell as the mission that you're moving
(21:27):
forward.
A hundred years or so, it requires suchorganizational strength and robustness.
When you compare that to --
the average Fortune 500company is under 20 years old.
That is wild to thinkabout that contrast. Yeah.
What's one mistake you can see culturalorganizations making when it comes to
hospitality and how canthey course correct?
(21:48):
One of the challenges that sometimescomes up is how accessibility is
viewed as a nice-to-have down the road.
So when projects are getting planned,
sometimes accessibility isthat add-on thing at the end,
and sometimes people think ofit as something that can be cut.
One of the challenges is that in thatyou are making a decision and saying,
(22:12):
we are intentionally not going tobuild something that every guest can
participate in.
And I challenge organizationalleaders to really think about the
statement that you're making when-- you are silently saying it,
but you are still saying,
not every guest is important enough forus to have thought about how they were
(22:35):
going to engage in this activity.
It is something that I know a lot oforganizations often end up with one or two
champions and they'reable to make some changes,
and then when those folks move onor move to other roles or other
responsibilities, some ofthat can fall off again.
And it really is something thatyou have to stay diligent about.
(22:55):
You have to build it into yourbudget and into your planning,
and you have to make sure that all ofyour designers who are on the project
understand how important that is.
It is something that can get overlookedor left behind, and unfortunately,
it's a trend that I see come and go fromdifferent organizations and it's really
unfortunate because it's a really strongmessage that not everyone might realize
(23:18):
they're putting out there whenthey make those decisions.
I think that's such a good point,
and I think we can often seeaccessibility as you say, this add-on,
whereas really it makes sense bothethically to make sure that you are giving
everyone a chance to interactwith your organization.
And it also kind ofmakes sense financially,
and it can often be sortof an uncomfortable thing to say when you make this
(23:40):
argument,
but that's a huge portion of youraudience or your guests that come to your
organization benefit fromhaving accessibility,
and so there's a return on investmentargument that you can make as well.
And I would also argue if you'replanning it early in the project,
then it gets baked in.
It is much lower tobuild things into a plan.
(24:04):
I mentioned earlier how wedid the accessibility review last year and one of the
things that we knew, old infrastructure,
we don't have automatic door openerson all of our doors across our campus.
Well, it costs a lot moreto run that electricity,
change the hinges on the doors so that --
change out the doors so thatthey can have this accommodation.
Adding in push buttons wherethey didn't exist before,
(24:27):
it's a large add-on. And so weare gradually chipping away,
but we're saying every single new doorthat we are planning better have it built
in.
It is much easier to run the electricout there before you put up the walls,
and so we are making sure that thosethings are built in so that we're not
coming back afterwards andhaving to correct previous gaps.
(24:50):
And I think that also points to anotherthing with accessibility is people often
think it's an all or nothingthing. It's like, oh, well,
we can't be accessible in this75-year-old exhibit. Right?
Because it wasn't thoughtabout at the time.
So we don't do any of the accessibility.
Whereas I think you're making areally good argument for like, hey,
do everything you can.
One thing we hear from marketers whenwe're talking about hospitality is it
(25:13):
doesn't have much to do with them,but from the outside looking in,
there's actually quite a lot of overlapbetween marketing and guest experiences.
People are interacting with yourmarketing first and then going to the
organization,
but really that's kind of a seamlesssort of journey that people are taking.
That's your first interaction,
is maybe before you're evenin the parking lot of the zoo.
(25:33):
What's your perspective?
How do these two functionswork together at Detroit Zoo?
Marketing is essential and critical,I would say, to hospitality.
I think at the baselinelevel they set expectation,
so what you are showing or choosingto highlight within a marketing
campaign is going to be a guest assumptionof what they're going to encounter
(25:56):
when they get there.I'll say historically,
we've worked really closely with ourmarketing team over various years and
various campaigns, and it can be achallenge, I'll say particularly at a zoo,
because there are certain animalswho might get more clicks,
might be more eye catching,
(26:16):
but maybe they're not visibleduring a certain time of year.
And so we have to work really closelywith our team to ensure that we're not
setting up a false guest expectation.
We don't want to publicize the bigphoto of a polar bear when it's dening
season and the female's going to bebehind the scenes. We have one male and a
really large habitat,which is spectacular,
(26:38):
but we don't want to set you up tothink this is going to be your one big
experience of the day, right? For us,
maybe a better thing to highlight thenin that particular instance are the
penguins because you canget right up to the glass.
They're really visible all year round,
and so we try and shift ourmarketing efforts to align with
(26:59):
what the guest expectation shouldbe during that time of year.
During the winter, we actually,
we will highlight animalswho are playing in the snow.
So we have river otters orwolverines who are great outdoor snow
animals, and we want to highlight ourindoor experiences where you can be warm.
We have a walkthrough ButterflyGarden and Free Flight Aviary,
(27:21):
our National AmphibianConservation Center.
Those are places that you can come toand actually have a really great indoor
winter experience as well. So we'reable to leverage off of each other,
but only through reallyclear communication.
So we want to make sure that weare communicating those things.
We do a similar thing whenwe're marketing our events,
(27:41):
ensuring what are going to be thethings that people are actually doing.
I will say we've moved moreinto leveraging our guest feedback surveys to help
drive our marketing for the coming year.
So one of the things is we havea 21 plus series where it's four
events throughout the year,evening adult-only drinking events,
(28:02):
so we have -- Zoo Brew is coming up next,
and then Spooky Spirits is our fall onethat overlaps with Halloween displays
that we have.
We have Polar Beers in the winter thatoverlaps with our wild lights holiday
light display.
And we went back to our guest feedbacksurveys and one of the top things that
those guests said theyenjoyed was seeing animals,
(28:23):
and we weren't really highlighting inour marketing efforts that you can see
animals when you come to these events.We had been highlighting drink variety,
additional yard games, and that kind ofthing. We haven't gotten rid of that,
but we've shifted so that we alsohighlight you have access to the zoo's
campus during Zoo Brew.
(28:44):
You can walk around with a beerand watch the camels in the field.
You can go back and see the polar bears.
So we wanted to ensure that we'reworking in lockstep with one another
so that the marketing teamhas the information that they need to be able to move
forward and do that as well.
Yeah,
that's such a good example of listeningproperly to what your audience is saying
(29:06):
as well and not going with whatyou initially think is the guest
experience. 'They'll like thisbecause there's lots of drinks.' Well,
you can get lots of drinks at a bar.
The big thing is you're seeing it inthe context of all these incredible
animals. But,
it feels like there's lotsof communication at the Detroit Zoological Society.
You're trying to break down those silosbetween all these different departments.
(29:29):
It is an ongoing effort.
Of course.
I think for every organization, figuringout where the silos have existed --
we have had silos and probablyin some sense we still do,
but we have worked diligentlyand very intentionally to
try to break some of those things downto ensure that we're able to move forward
in the best direction together.
(29:51):
We never want to be undercutting eachother's efforts because ultimately
we do all have the same goal.
Each one of us needs to have a seat atthe table because we are representing a
different perspective. Sowhen I'm sitting at the table,
I am much more focused on the guestexperience than I am on animal wellbeing.
It doesn't mean I'm discounting it,
(30:12):
it doesn't mean that I'm operatingwithout thinking about it,
but it means that I'm sitting at thetable with that perspective so that when
our head of animal research is there,
she can be sharing her perspective andwe can come together on what the best
solution is.
Yeah,
it's about illuminatingrather than fighting between two different departments.
And for us, especiallyin our event planning,
(30:34):
one of the big changes that we've madein the last two years is just making sure
that we're doing pre-meetingswith everybody on campus who wants to attend from
the various departments so that thelandscape team knows what's coming up.
The maintenance techsknow what's coming up,
but also our animal curators knowthere's going to be heavy equipment
going by certain habitats,
(30:55):
and we want to make sure thatthey're really clued in on that.
We also have this Attractions Trail thatthis summer is going to have dragons
in it -- animatronic dragonsand mythical creatures.
And we will invite ouranimal teams to come
out and we do sound monitoring with them,
so any of the habitats thatare close to that footprint,
(31:18):
we make sure that they're included inpart of that process in the angling of our
speakers, in motion,
if there's going to be anything thatcan be visible from outside of that
footprint, we want tomake sure that, again,
we're working together so that we aren'tfighting against each other's goals so
that we can all get to the same ultimateend goal of fulfilling our mission
(31:39):
together.
So how do you think audience expectationsaround hospitality will evolve in the
next five years, and how shouldarts and culture leaders prepare?
One of the things that we are tacklingis how individualized do we make
the experience?
While most guests report that theyare visiting our attractions or
(32:00):
cultural institutions tospend time with other people,
there is a tendency to think that we needto really narrow in that experience to
cater to an individual.
It is something that I feel like withinthe last decade has really popped up.
A lot of, oh, you cancustomize your phone.
Are we used to social media catering your
(32:22):
reels, your For You Page?
How much are people expecting that theworld around them reflects their own
desires in that moment? How much doesit cater to what they're expecting?
On the negative side ofthings, people are like, well,
does that just develop an echo chamberand how much can you experience new
(32:42):
things?
And one of our goals is that you doexperience new things when you come to the
zoo or come to the nature center.It has been an ongoing
discussion. I think it willcontinue to be an ongoing one.
One of the places where we have hadthat discussion on our campuses is last
year,
we added a new Detroit Zooapp and our app enables you
(33:03):
to pre-plan your visit,
build out and save whichanimals do you want to see,
which restaurant maybe doyou want to go to for lunch,
and then on the app itself,
you then have a layer thatyou've built your journey.
When we were talking aboutthis, the question came up,
are we expecting guests to all have theapp on their individual device? Well,
(33:26):
no, because we kind of wantyour group to stay together.
We don't want everyone in your party tobreak off and have your own experience
because much of some of that connectionbuilding or storytelling later is that
you're having these experiences together.So we are hoping that as a
family or as a visiting group,
you're sitting down and you're buildingout that experience before you come.
(33:48):
While it has the capability ofproviding a completely individualized
experience,
we're hoping that you're still doingit together so that you can take those
stories away and share them. Again,
it's something we need to continue totackle and continue to listen to guests
when they're experiencingthese things to find out,
(34:08):
how much was it actually important?
How much did it enable you to enjoy theexperience more or did it even isolate
you from people around you?
Did it distract you?
Yeah.
It's such an interesting nuance becauseI would automatically think that
personalization is better,
but really when you go to aperformance or you go to an exhibit,
the first thing you do whenyou see something amazing is you look to the person
(34:30):
next to you. I remember seeingthe cheetahs at Chester Zoo.
They were lazy for the whole dayand suddenly something got them.
They all sprinted towards the doorand one of the first things you do,
you don't look at thatand log it in your diary.
You look to the person next toyou and say, did you see that?
The first thing you do at a comedy showwhen you laugh is you look at the person
(34:52):
who you're with to laugh with,and that's not personalization.
That's about the community.
That's about the experience that youhave with people at an organization,
at a performance.
And especially in the zoo environment,
we are trying to build empathyfor animals in a variety of ways,
and one of the best ways to do thatis to have guests share their own
(35:12):
experiences with one another.
You might have someone in your visitinggroup who is uncomfortable around
snakes, and you might not feel comfortablegoing up to a snake habitat yourself,
but you might enter that buildingbecause your whole group is going in,
and then maybe they'll share, oh,
I actually had a garter snakethat lived in my backyard.
It was really neat for this reason.
I saw it sunning itselfon a rock one morning.
(35:34):
And starting to tell those storiesand build past some discomfort that
someone may initially say, oh, nope.I actually don't want to go near --
I don't want to be exposed tocertain animals or certain things.
And really being in that visiting groupcan help expand someone's thinking
around those animals as well.
Wow. I love that.
(35:55):
One of my favorite things at zoos islistening to a random kid tell me a
fact about an animal. I thinkkids want to share naturally.
I think they don't have the sort ofblockers on the adults sometimes have of
like, oh, I don't necessarily want toshare this with this other person. Kids,
they want to tell you the fact aboutthe smokey jungle frog or something.
(36:17):
And sometimes they're amazingly funand I didn't know them myself either.
It can be really fun to goout around campus and see,
what are people reallyconnecting to that day?
What did they know before they came?
What are they finding out while they'rehere? And then later finding out,
what is it inspiring them topursue after they leave our campus,
(36:39):
too?
If an organization wants to improveits visitor experience but doesn't know
where to start or perhapshas very limited resources,
what's one small stepthey could take today?
I think the first step is askingwhat needs to be improved.
Figuring out where you should actuallybe focusing your time, effort,
and energy to me is the baseline.
(36:59):
Is to get that initial feedback.
And it doesn't mean thatyou have to initially do
a full survey of everyone who's cometo your organization. In the last year,
one of the things that we did when wewere starting to work on our campus
navigation project was I dida survey of our frontline
(37:20):
staff. I said, where dopeople ask you to go to first?
Where are they trying to getto when they enter the campus?
And we were able to get a greatinitial baseline for us to then start
digging into so that we can askfurther guest questions, but that was,
we had data that wejust had never compiled,
(37:43):
and that really enabled us to get aheadstart on some things before we could
launch into a full survey orfull data collection around that.
Absolutely.
It really reminds me how often we've hadthe conversation with marketers about,
hey,
talk to your box office staff becausethey are the people who are seeing the
guests first. They'reseeing your patrons first.
(38:03):
They get all the questions that you'venever even thought would be possible to
ask or you thought had an obvious answer.
That's the other placethat we really tap into.
What questions are peoplecalling and asking about?
Because that means they have taken thetime to find a phone number and they
really want to talk to a personand find out this answer,
and that means thatthey've hit other barriers,
(38:24):
that it isn't obvious on the website.
It isn't obvious through othercommunication methods that we use.
So we want to make sure that we'recapturing those things as well.
If you could broadcast one message toexecutive directors, leadership teams,
staff,
and boards of thousandsof arts and culture and exhibition based organizations,
what would it be?
(38:44):
Please don't forget the people.I think the big thing is, right,
making sure that you rememberthat why we continue to be able to
operate is because peopleare coming to visit us.
People are coming through ourdoors. People are supporting us.
And to know that when a guest isasking for something or getting
clarification or needingassistance, we are here for them.
(39:08):
And so ensuring that we are providingthat support and thinking through and
really addressing the concerns thatexist because we wouldn't exist without
them.
Amazing. I love that.Whenever I go to a zoo,
one of the first places I look for onthe map is the reptile enclosure or the
reptile exhibits.
What's one of your favorite exhibits atthe zoo that all of our listeners should
(39:31):
go and see?
My favorite place to take a littleescape when I'm at the Detroit
Zoo is our free flight aviary.
It is a walkthrough experiencewhere birds are free to fly
all around you.
It has two story glass enclosure and
(39:51):
tons of plants.
You feel like you were completelytransformed to a jungle
forest, and you hearbird calls, bird songs,
and then you start to see them,
and that is one of the parts that Iactually love about it is you have to slow
down to be able to see all of thebirds that live inside of there.
(40:12):
Because they blend in, or they'reup high, some are down low,
and so it really slows youdown in a way that I love.
I love to be able to slow down and kindof escape time a little bit in there.
Amazing. Emily, thank you so much forbeing here. I've loved this conversation.
Thank you so much, Dan. Iappreciate you having me.
(40:38):
Let's wrap things up with a quickround of CI-lebrity Sightings.
Here's some of our favorite storiesabout CI clients in the news. First up,
Boston's WBUR reported that the cityis expanding its Family Days program,
which offers school-aged children andtheir families free access to cultural
institutions twice a month.
The program now includes performing artsinstitutions, including ArtsEmerson,
(41:01):
Boston Ballet, and HuntingtonTheatre. Excellent news, Boston!
Next,
The Children's Theater of Cincinnatireceived a major boost for their capital
campaign to restore theirhistoric Emory Theater.
An anonymous donor gave $2 million.According to Broadway World,
this donation covers half of the remainingfunds needed to reach their goal.
(41:23):
Way to go! And finally,
the San Francisco Symphony and itschorus partnered with the San Francisco
Conservatory of Music Orchestra for abenefit concert supporting those affected
by the recent Los Angeles fires.
The SF Chronicle reported that nearly1900 people attended the event.
What an incredible example of usingthe arts to bring people together for a
(41:45):
meaningful cause. Huge applause to theseorganizations for sharing art, support,
and inspiration with their communities.Got a story that deserves a shout out?
Well, tag us on social and let us know.
(42:08):
Thank you for listening to CI to Eye.
This episode was edited and produced byKaren McConarty and co-written by Karen
McConarty and myself, Dan Titmuss.
Stephanie Medina and Jess Berube are CIto Eye's designers and video editors,
and all work together tocreate CI's digital content.
Our music is by whoisuzo. Ifyou enjoyed today's episode,
(42:29):
please take a moment torate us or leave a review.
A nice comment goes a long way in helpingother people discover CI to Eye and
hear from experts in the arts and beyond.If you didn't enjoy today's episode,
pass it on to all of your enemies.Don't forget to follow us on Facebook,
Instagram, LinkedIn, YouTube,
and TikTok for regular contentto help you market smarter.
(42:50):
You can also sign up for our newsletterat capacityinteractive.com so you never
miss an update. And ifyou haven't already,
please click the subscribe buttonwherever you get your podcasts.
Until next time, stay nerdy.
Hello everyone. Dan here. So ifyou've been tuning in for a while,
you've probably heard us talk a lotabout audience hospitality-those little
things we can do to make someone'sexperience unforgettable and leave them
wanting more. In today'scompetitive landscape,
every touchpoint counts.
Audiences have infinite optionsof how to spend their time.
There are endless streaming platforms,the temptation of a cozy couch,
(00:32):
a new episode of The White Lotus ormy personal favorite, Below Deck...
So how do we stand out and get themto choose our venues instead? Well,
the answer isn't straightforward,but one thing is simple.
Exceptional guest experiences matter,
and those experiences don'tjust happen on their own.
They're designed with intention.
From the first click on a website tothe moment a visitor steps through your
(00:54):
door to engagement after they leave,
every interaction shapes how peoplefeel about your organization.
We wanted to learn more about what ittakes to create a truly exceptional guest
experience. So for today's episode,I sat down with Emily O'Hara,
senior director of guest experienceat the Detroit Zoological Society.
Emily shared how the Detroit Zoo fosterspersonal connections and creates a
(01:18):
welcoming, engagingenvironment for every guest.
We discussed practical strategies fordelivering wildly good experiences (get
it?) that turn visitors intoraving and returning fans.
I enjoyed this conversation somuch and I know you will too.
So without further ado,let's dive in, shall we?
(01:47):
I'm so excited to be sittingdown with Emily O'Hara,
the Senior Director of Guest Experienceat the Detroit Zoological Society,
a nonprofit organization that operatesboth the Detroit Zoo and Belle Isle
Nature Center. Emily,welcome to CI to Eye.
Thank you for having me.
I've been so excited about thispodcast interview because my major was
(02:07):
zoology. For a long time in my life,
I was on the careerpath of animal sciences.
I also lived right next to Chester Zoo,
which is one of the biggestzoos in the United Kingdom.
So much so that I could hear thesea lions barking in the morning,
and so I've always beenobsessed with zoos and
love anything to do with animals.
That's awesome. What isyour favorite animal?
(02:28):
Oh, ants. I love ants. Yeah, so Istudied rock ants at university.
I spent a long time looking at ants ona table and tracking them with a webcam.
It's a whole thing. I'm notsure if it was useful science,
but it was definitely science. Soyeah, anything to do with ants,
I could watch them for hours.What's your favorite animal?
So traditionally I say my favoriteanimal is a crested screamer,
(02:49):
which is a bird, a veryunique looking bird.
They used to live at the Detroit Zoo,
but the pair that lived here actuallymoved down to sunny Florida so that they
could be outdoors year round.
So now I say of the residentswho live at the Detroit Zoo,
scarlet ibis is currently my favorite.
Another bird that livesin our free flight aviary.
(03:12):
Amazing.
Watch the search volume on Google Trendsof crested screamers popping up after
this.
I know.
I do suggest you also go and watch aYouTube video of their vocalization.
They're a fun bird.
I'm definitely going to dothis after this interview.
Many arts and culture organizationsdon't have a dedicated director of guest
experiences. Tell us moreabout what your role entails.
(03:36):
So really it's lookingat the guest experience.
No matter whether you're here as a generaldaytime admission guest or here for
a special event, maybe one of ourevening hours, or even for a wedding,
we want to ensure that youare having a great experience,
that you are able to accessthe amenities that you need,
that you're able to enjoy time with thefamily members or friends who you're
(03:59):
visiting with, and ultimately that we'reable to connect you to our mission.
And so why is it important to havesomeone championing this work in an
organization?
It's really important to ensure that wedon't leave the guest experience behind,
and in some sense, wecan't operate without it.
Especially at cultural organizations,
the guest experience is essentialbecause oftentimes we have mission
(04:22):
messages that we're also trying to share.So for the Detroit Zoological Society,
we want to connect people,animals, and the natural world.
And oftentimes we're talkingabout conservation stories or work that we're doing
out around the world or even with theanimals who live either at the zoo or at
the nature center.
And you can't get to those messages ifyou haven't met your basic needs of your
(04:44):
guest. It's one of the, in some sense,
founding principles of why schools dofree breakfast or free lunch to make sure
that their learners are able to focuson what they want them to focus on.
So we have a similar philosophy in thatwe want to ensure that the guests who
come feel welcome but also are able tohave those basic needs met and that they
(05:06):
can kind of move past,
where am I going to go get lunch? How amI going to get to the bathroom in time
if my kid tells me he has to go?
We want you to be able to have thosethings taken care of so that you can start
to learn about some of the things thatwe are either doing here at the zoo
or some of our conservationefforts around the world.
(05:28):
We really want to make sure that we'reable to connect guests with those things
while they're having a great experience.
We also want to make sure you're havinga good time with the group that you came
with.
The highest reported reason why guestsare coming to our facilities are to spend
time with other people,
and we want to make sure that you canhave that quality time and be building
(05:48):
those memories together as well.And sometimes at the end of the day,
you are tired. It's been a long one.
We want to make sure that you haveaccess to restrooms on the way
out, that you can grab a wateror a snack for your drive home,
that you can really take that away sothat you can talk about the memories of
(06:08):
your day rather than gettingcaught up in the logistics or the
headaches of just adventuringout into the world.
Absolutely.
And it seems like your role is more commonat exhibit based organizations-things
like zoos, museums,aquariums, science centers.
But it's not as common maybe inperformance-based institutions.
And there are definitely exceptions tothat rule that we've talked about on the
(06:30):
podcast, but do you have anythought why that might be?
Yeah, so for an exhibitbased organization, we're building your experience.
So every time someone iscoming through the door,
we're kind of curating what it is basedon how we've set up the journey to go.
I do wonder if performance-basedinstitutions, because the thing you're doing,
(06:50):
it's kind of this external party is comingin and performing and you're sitting
there and taking it in,
the crafting of that experience kind ofhappens in a slightly different format.
Performance-based institutions are reallyengaging with their guests when they
arrive and right when they departand probably during intermission,
but not so much during those interimparts when the entertainment is being
(07:13):
provided.
And so I'm wondering if that is thatsplit that you're seeing when you're
looking across cultural organizations?
Yeah, definitely. It feels likevisiting an exhibit based organization,
the experience is the whole thing,
whereas at a performancebased institution,
often the thought is that the experienceyou're getting is just the bit where
(07:33):
the curtain goes up and maybe weneed to rethink that a little.
And in some sense there are certainpoints in the interaction where it is very
much the same. We're ticket taking, right?
Trying to get folks in through the doors.
And we want to ensure that theticket buying process was clear.
You know what you're expecting. Wedo have amenities, right? Restrooms,
(07:53):
vending of some sort, whether it'srestaurants or other dining offerings,
and then ultimately, can you get backto your car or back to public transit?
How are you getting home afterwards?
So ensuring that we'recovering those things.
I think we definitely still havea lot of overlaps with each other.
Yeah.
What's the first moment and last momentyou want a visitor to experience at
(08:15):
Detroit Zoo?
So ideally we want youto come in and say, whoa.
We're really excited to enter this place.
We did go through rebranding this lastyear and we focused on our main entry,
so we wanted to make sure that we hadlight pole banners and big signage,
and we have a giant photo op that youcan get a family photo with as you're
(08:35):
walking up to our main admissiongates so that you have that
excitement, that new energy alreadybuilding on your way into the zoo.
What do you want guests tofeel when they leave the zoo?
What's the primary feelingyou are aiming for?
I'm hoping joy. We really want tomake sure that you had a joyous day.
(08:56):
It is a tricky thing in that theend of the day can be exhausting
depending on the weather thatday. It might've been hot,
it might've been really cold, you mighthave a hike to get back to your car.
So we want to make sure to makethat exit as smooth as we can
so that you can be talkingabout the awesome time that you had at the zoo rather
(09:17):
than complaining about being tired orI have to go to the bathroom or I'm
hungry or thirsty.
It feels like you really thoughtabout hospitality in such a deep way,
and there's so many aspectsof that visitor experience that you've thought about
in their entire journeythrough the zoo and after.
How do you prioritizewhich areas to focus on?
(09:38):
Do you conduct any focus groupsor audience behavior research?
So we have a variety of methods. Sowe're always collecting visitor feedback,
so we send experience surveysafter guests come to visit,
and we do that for both our daytimeguests as well as for events.
Last year we were able to bring in agroup to do a specialized accessibility
survey as well,
(09:59):
and that has really helped becauseespecially if you're talking a zoo,
we've been around for a long time,
so we have infrastructure that hasbeen potentially grandfathered in,
but there are better practicesthat we can institute.
So we're going back through that andprioritizing what reaches more guests,
what are things that we can make changeson that can impact across the board.
(10:21):
I mean,
the great thing about accessibility isthat one accessible change that may be
targeted for a certain groupor individual helps across the
board. Curb cuts are alwaysused as the standard example of,
curb cuts help strollers.
Curb cuts help people who use wheelchairs.Curb cuts help if you have a dolly
and you're just trying tomove stuff across an area.
(10:43):
So we want to be prioritizing thosethings that can really help across the
board. And then there's alsojust resource limitations,
so making sure as you alluded to,we can't do everything all at once,
but we're really trying to ensure thatwe're hitting the things that are the
biggest pain points first sothat those aren't lingering.
(11:05):
We always want to make sure that we'reacting on those things to the best of our
ability so that we can get to the thingsthat will really enhance the guest
experience -- some of those fun, whimsy...
the things that we can really touch ononce you get past the basics of what the
limitations are.
I mean,
(11:25):
the fun and whimsy sort of side of stuffis obviously the bit that people maybe
focus on. I can imagine it'd bequite easy to go for the shiny thing,
go for a new photo activationor guest activation bit.
Whereas what you actually need to do isdo all the base work that you've done
first.
Oh yeah.
And one of the other things that wedo is regular walks with our team and
(11:47):
across the organization.
So I do a weekly walk with our head offacilities just to make sure that he and
I are on the same page abouthow are we prioritizing repairs,
how are we prioritizing upgrades todifferent areas -- particularly, again,
our restrooms, oursidewalks, our fencing --
so that we are in alignment withwhat we want to tackle next.
(12:09):
Have you ever had any really surprising,
counterintuitive things you've learnedthrough either your walkthroughs or your
research? Any light bulb moments?
One of the things that has stuck withme for years now from market research is
the idea of accessible institutionsfrom a financial perspective
and the idea that just because a certaingroup of people isn't coming to your
(12:33):
institution,
it doesn't mean they can't afford tocome because you might make it free,
but if you're not welcoming to them,
if they don't feel like it'sa place that they belong,
they're still not going to come.
All the free tickets in the world aren'tgoing to make somebody come to your
institution if they don'tfeel like it's meant for them.
So that is also something that we reallystrive to ensure that we're conveying
(12:57):
through our marketing efforts,
through ensuring that when we have alot of different visitors who come visit
our campuses, that we have amenitiesavailable, that they can feel comfortable,
and that they can know they belong here.
It's always stuck with me because Ithink it's a default when folks say, oh,
such and such are not coming to ourcampuses. Oftentimes the default is,
(13:18):
just give them free tickets and they'llcome. And that doesn't solve it.
It doesn't fix the problem.
I think there's a parallel there. We'veoften talked about diversity, inclusion,
and accessibility of having the doorunlocked versus having the door open.
Sure, people can go and openthe door if they want to,
but by truly welcoming people,
by opening the door andinviting them in wholeheartedly,
(13:42):
then it makes such ahuge difference, I think.
We encountered that in the last year.
Last year we had a couple of sensoryfriendly evenings, and again,
it was an effort to say we want to bemore welcoming to guests who have sensory
sensitivities or sensory needs.
So we had some sensory friendly hoursand it was from three to seven three
(14:03):
times last year where we advertisedand were hoping to have folks come in.
And I'm really glad that we listenedto people who either came or people who
didn't come that said, you know what?Dinner time's not the best time.
We have routines, we needto stick to those routines.
So that didn't work for them. Alsoknowing, well, these three random dates,
(14:26):
there's no consistency. I can'tbuild a schedule around that.
And so what we ended up doing was wejust shifted our model and said...
This year we shifted to the secondMonday of every month from opening to
noon are sensory friendly hours.And that way our families who we're
working with can planmonths ahead of time,
(14:46):
consistently see whatworks for their schedule.
It worked better for them as faras time of day, morning time,
you can do something that maybeis out of the norm a little bit.
But that was just one exampleof where we had an idea of, oh,
we want to help this group ofguests who haven't been coming,
and we had to make adjustments.
(15:07):
We had to really listen and find out howcan we continue to improve on opening
that door and having it be open ratherthan just unlocked. I like that.
Yeah, for sure. Out of interest,
what other accommodations do youmake for sensory friendly audiences?
So our main thing is we canmake adjustments to some of our attractions around
the campus. When you enterthe zoo right up at the front,
(15:30):
the Pope Penguin Conservation Center isthe spectacular two story building that
houses five different species of penguins.
And as part of thatexperience when you walk in,
we have a ramp that you start in SouthAmerica and then you go down the ramp and
you cross Drake's Passageto go toward Antarctica.
And when you're on Drake's Passage,there is projection all around you.
(15:52):
It is sunny. A sea shanty's playing inthe background under the blue skies,
but then it turns to a storm. And sodepending on where you are in the cycle,
there can be water spray. The wholeroom feels like it's kind of moving,
it can be loud. So for oursensory sensitivity mornings,
we have the lightspartially up in that ramp,
and then we keep it ondaytime the whole time.
(16:14):
So you still get the nice experiencewithout some of the unpredictability of
that. Also, we have a 4Dtheater on our campus,
and so we can run thatwithout all the effects,
so you won't have the air blowing inyour face and we can do our lights
partially up. Those are the kindsof modifications that we're making.
Amazing. That penguinexhibition sounds phenomenal.
(16:36):
I've never ever seen someone leavea penguin exhibition unhappy.
They're such joyful animals,just watching them on the glass,
watching them dive through, andit looks like they're playing.
I don't know if they are, butit looks like they're playing.
Yeah, and the great thing I willsay with the five different species,
they kind of hang out in differentareas. They have different habits.
(16:58):
The king penguins love -- wehave a snow machine ice maker.
They will stand under it and have littlepeaks of snow just falling over them.
The chinstrap penguins are almostalways swimming around in the water.
They're super active.
And then the macaroni and rockhopperpenguins are often near that kind of South
American glass. We're goinginto breeding season soon,
(17:18):
so they're going to bemoving rocks around.
They use rocks to build their nests andkind of present rocks to each other.
And so soon that habitat's going tobe full of all kinds of rocks that the
penguins can take and manipulate andmove around to their nesting areas.
Oh my goodness, magical.I love that so much.
You mentioned before the rebrand.
And you served on the organization'score team for new brand development.
(17:43):
Can you walk us through some of theelements that were designed to make the
guest experience evenbetter with this rebrand?
Yeah, so with the rebrand,
it really was about shifting the DetroitZoological Society and the Detroit
Zoo to ensure that we had thingsthat were digitally friendly,
but then when you're on campus,we wanted to make sure that again,
it was welcoming, friendly,
(18:05):
really conveyed the feeling and thespirit that we wanted to get across.
So our new logo has the O's of the zooact as these containers that we can also
have animals walk through. Weuse video superimposed behind it.
We'll also have people kind of poppingout of them and breaking kind of the
shape a little bit as well to really looklike they're integrated with the logo.
(18:28):
And that was a way for us to highlightthat people are essential as well.
And then the other big part ofthe rebrand was the color palette.
We went through and reallywanted bright saturated
colors that worked togetheragain in a fun way,
and we've really rolledthat out across our campus.
(18:49):
We painted some roofs last year thinkingabout how that integrates into the
finishes of our built environment as well,
so that it isn't always justin signage or just in digital
formats, but how can we then integrateit into our full campus plan?
So how do you use data to measure theimpact of hospitality initiatives?
(19:11):
Are there key metrics or visitorbehaviors that you track?
Yes. So I mentioned that we doguest experience feedback surveys,
and this is one of thosefair, poor, good, excellent,
and outstanding.
So we do have that kind ofbaseline guest experience question
as a KPI. So we are trackingthat percentage year after year,
(19:35):
but we have other questions on the surveythat we are also paying attention to.
'Likelihood to recommend' wedefinitely look at very closely.
And then for us as a zoo,
we have very specific questionsaround conservation messaging,
animal visibility, and thensimilar across other boards.
Our dining and retail also get alot of feedback that we're usually
(19:58):
looking at there.
And then the other piece of data thatwe've started to integrate more fully are
reviews on social media sites.
So what comments are we gettingon Google reviews, Yelp,
TripAdvisor, and then what are guestscommenting on social media posts?
So we really integrate with ourcommunications team to ensure that we're
capturing those things and looking atthem holistically across the board.
(20:22):
I think some leaders see hospitalityas maybe a nice to have rather than a
necessity. What's yourresponse to this perspective?
How would you argue that hospitalityis essential to long-term success?
I think hospitality is essential toensuring that you have ongoing support of
your community, of yourguests, of your visitors,
of the people who live inand around your institutions.
(20:45):
We want to make surethat we're integrated,
that we are providing a community service,
and part of that is providing agreat experience when you visit.
So to me,
it is essential for that long-term successto ensure that you're thriving beyond
just today.
We want to make sure that we'rein existence decades, centuries,
(21:06):
into the future.
We just had our 95th anniversary andstarting in that planning for that
hundredth anniversary and thinking aboutkeeping an organization going for a
hundred years requires that buy-in,
requires that you have people whowant to keep coming back and want to
keep supporting both the experience aswell as the mission that you're moving
(21:27):
forward.
A hundred years or so, it requires suchorganizational strength and robustness.
When you compare that to --
the average Fortune 500company is under 20 years old.
That is wild to thinkabout that contrast. Yeah.
What's one mistake you can see culturalorganizations making when it comes to
hospitality and how canthey course correct?
(21:48):
One of the challenges that sometimescomes up is how accessibility is
viewed as a nice-to-have down the road.
So when projects are getting planned,
sometimes accessibility isthat add-on thing at the end,
and sometimes people think ofit as something that can be cut.
One of the challenges is that in thatyou are making a decision and saying,
(22:12):
we are intentionally not going tobuild something that every guest can
participate in.
And I challenge organizationalleaders to really think about the
statement that you're making when-- you are silently saying it,
but you are still saying,
not every guest is important enough forus to have thought about how they were
(22:35):
going to engage in this activity.
It is something that I know a lot oforganizations often end up with one or two
champions and they'reable to make some changes,
and then when those folks move onor move to other roles or other
responsibilities, some ofthat can fall off again.
And it really is something thatyou have to stay diligent about.
(22:55):
You have to build it into yourbudget and into your planning,
and you have to make sure that all ofyour designers who are on the project
understand how important that is.
It is something that can get overlookedor left behind, and unfortunately,
it's a trend that I see come and go fromdifferent organizations and it's really
unfortunate because it's a really strongmessage that not everyone might realize
(23:18):
they're putting out there whenthey make those decisions.
I think that's such a good point,
and I think we can often seeaccessibility as you say, this add-on,
whereas really it makes sense bothethically to make sure that you are giving
everyone a chance to interactwith your organization.
And it also kind ofmakes sense financially,
and it can often be sortof an uncomfortable thing to say when you make this
(23:40):
argument,
but that's a huge portion of youraudience or your guests that come to your
organization benefit fromhaving accessibility,
and so there's a return on investmentargument that you can make as well.
And I would also argue if you'replanning it early in the project,
then it gets baked in.
It is much lower tobuild things into a plan.
(24:04):
I mentioned earlier how wedid the accessibility review last year and one of the
things that we knew, old infrastructure,
we don't have automatic door openerson all of our doors across our campus.
Well, it costs a lot moreto run that electricity,
change the hinges on the doors so that --
change out the doors so thatthey can have this accommodation.
Adding in push buttons wherethey didn't exist before,
(24:27):
it's a large add-on. And so weare gradually chipping away,
but we're saying every single new doorthat we are planning better have it built
in.
It is much easier to run the electricout there before you put up the walls,
and so we are making sure that thosethings are built in so that we're not
coming back afterwards andhaving to correct previous gaps.
(24:50):
And I think that also points to anotherthing with accessibility is people often
think it's an all or nothingthing. It's like, oh, well,
we can't be accessible in this75-year-old exhibit. Right?
Because it wasn't thoughtabout at the time.
So we don't do any of the accessibility.
Whereas I think you're making areally good argument for like, hey,
do everything you can.
One thing we hear from marketers whenwe're talking about hospitality is it
(25:13):
doesn't have much to do with them,but from the outside looking in,
there's actually quite a lot of overlapbetween marketing and guest experiences.
People are interacting with yourmarketing first and then going to the
organization,
but really that's kind of a seamlesssort of journey that people are taking.
That's your first interaction,
is maybe before you're evenin the parking lot of the zoo.
(25:33):
What's your perspective?
How do these two functionswork together at Detroit Zoo?
Marketing is essential and critical,I would say, to hospitality.
I think at the baselinelevel they set expectation,
so what you are showing or choosingto highlight within a marketing
campaign is going to be a guest assumptionof what they're going to encounter
(25:56):
when they get there.I'll say historically,
we've worked really closely with ourmarketing team over various years and
various campaigns, and it can be achallenge, I'll say particularly at a zoo,
because there are certain animalswho might get more clicks,
might be more eye catching,
(26:16):
but maybe they're not visibleduring a certain time of year.
And so we have to work really closelywith our team to ensure that we're not
setting up a false guest expectation.
We don't want to publicize the bigphoto of a polar bear when it's dening
season and the female's going to bebehind the scenes. We have one male and a
really large habitat,which is spectacular,
(26:38):
but we don't want to set you up tothink this is going to be your one big
experience of the day, right? For us,
maybe a better thing to highlight thenin that particular instance are the
penguins because you canget right up to the glass.
They're really visible all year round,
and so we try and shift ourmarketing efforts to align with
(26:59):
what the guest expectation shouldbe during that time of year.
During the winter, we actually,
we will highlight animalswho are playing in the snow.
So we have river otters orwolverines who are great outdoor snow
animals, and we want to highlight ourindoor experiences where you can be warm.
We have a walkthrough ButterflyGarden and Free Flight Aviary,
(27:21):
our National AmphibianConservation Center.
Those are places that you can come toand actually have a really great indoor
winter experience as well. So we'reable to leverage off of each other,
but only through reallyclear communication.
So we want to make sure that weare communicating those things.
We do a similar thing whenwe're marketing our events,
(27:41):
ensuring what are going to be thethings that people are actually doing.
I will say we've moved moreinto leveraging our guest feedback surveys to help
drive our marketing for the coming year.
So one of the things is we havea 21 plus series where it's four
events throughout the year,evening adult-only drinking events,
(28:02):
so we have -- Zoo Brew is coming up next,
and then Spooky Spirits is our fall onethat overlaps with Halloween displays
that we have.
We have Polar Beers in the winter thatoverlaps with our wild lights holiday
light display.
And we went back to our guest feedbacksurveys and one of the top things that
those guests said theyenjoyed was seeing animals,
(28:23):
and we weren't really highlighting inour marketing efforts that you can see
animals when you come to these events.We had been highlighting drink variety,
additional yard games, and that kind ofthing. We haven't gotten rid of that,
but we've shifted so that we alsohighlight you have access to the zoo's
campus during Zoo Brew.
(28:44):
You can walk around with a beerand watch the camels in the field.
You can go back and see the polar bears.
So we wanted to ensure that we'reworking in lockstep with one another
so that the marketing teamhas the information that they need to be able to move
forward and do that as well.
Yeah,
that's such a good example of listeningproperly to what your audience is saying
(29:06):
as well and not going with whatyou initially think is the guest
experience. 'They'll like thisbecause there's lots of drinks.' Well,
you can get lots of drinks at a bar.
The big thing is you're seeing it inthe context of all these incredible
animals. But,
it feels like there's lotsof communication at the Detroit Zoological Society.
You're trying to break down those silosbetween all these different departments.
(29:29):
It is an ongoing effort.
Of course.
I think for every organization, figuringout where the silos have existed --
we have had silos and probablyin some sense we still do,
but we have worked diligentlyand very intentionally to
try to break some of those things downto ensure that we're able to move forward
in the best direction together.
(29:51):
We never want to be undercutting eachother's efforts because ultimately
we do all have the same goal.
Each one of us needs to have a seat atthe table because we are representing a
different perspective. Sowhen I'm sitting at the table,
I am much more focused on the guestexperience than I am on animal wellbeing.
It doesn't mean I'm discounting it,
(30:12):
it doesn't mean that I'm operatingwithout thinking about it,
but it means that I'm sitting at thetable with that perspective so that when
our head of animal research is there,
she can be sharing her perspective andwe can come together on what the best
solution is.
Yeah,
it's about illuminatingrather than fighting between two different departments.
And for us, especiallyin our event planning,
(30:34):
one of the big changes that we've madein the last two years is just making sure
that we're doing pre-meetingswith everybody on campus who wants to attend from
the various departments so that thelandscape team knows what's coming up.
The maintenance techsknow what's coming up,
but also our animal curators knowthere's going to be heavy equipment
going by certain habitats,
(30:55):
and we want to make sure thatthey're really clued in on that.
We also have this Attractions Trail thatthis summer is going to have dragons
in it -- animatronic dragonsand mythical creatures.
And we will invite ouranimal teams to come
out and we do sound monitoring with them,
so any of the habitats thatare close to that footprint,
(31:18):
we make sure that they're included inpart of that process in the angling of our
speakers, in motion,
if there's going to be anything thatcan be visible from outside of that
footprint, we want tomake sure that, again,
we're working together so that we aren'tfighting against each other's goals so
that we can all get to the same ultimateend goal of fulfilling our mission
(31:39):
together.
So how do you think audience expectationsaround hospitality will evolve in the
next five years, and how shouldarts and culture leaders prepare?
One of the things that we are tacklingis how individualized do we make
the experience?
While most guests report that theyare visiting our attractions or
(32:00):
cultural institutions tospend time with other people,
there is a tendency to think that we needto really narrow in that experience to
cater to an individual.
It is something that I feel like withinthe last decade has really popped up.
A lot of, oh, you cancustomize your phone.
Are we used to social media catering your
(32:22):
reels, your For You Page?
How much are people expecting that theworld around them reflects their own
desires in that moment? How much doesit cater to what they're expecting?
On the negative side ofthings, people are like, well,
does that just develop an echo chamberand how much can you experience new
(32:42):
things?
And one of our goals is that you doexperience new things when you come to the
zoo or come to the nature center.It has been an ongoing
discussion. I think it willcontinue to be an ongoing one.
One of the places where we have hadthat discussion on our campuses is last
year,
we added a new Detroit Zooapp and our app enables you
(33:03):
to pre-plan your visit,
build out and save whichanimals do you want to see,
which restaurant maybe doyou want to go to for lunch,
and then on the app itself,
you then have a layer thatyou've built your journey.
When we were talking aboutthis, the question came up,
are we expecting guests to all have theapp on their individual device? Well,
(33:26):
no, because we kind of wantyour group to stay together.
We don't want everyone in your party tobreak off and have your own experience
because much of some of that connectionbuilding or storytelling later is that
you're having these experiences together.So we are hoping that as a
family or as a visiting group,
you're sitting down and you're buildingout that experience before you come.
(33:48):
While it has the capability ofproviding a completely individualized
experience,
we're hoping that you're still doingit together so that you can take those
stories away and share them. Again,
it's something we need to continue totackle and continue to listen to guests
when they're experiencingthese things to find out,
(34:08):
how much was it actually important?
How much did it enable you to enjoy theexperience more or did it even isolate
you from people around you?
Did it distract you?
Yeah.
It's such an interesting nuance becauseI would automatically think that
personalization is better,
but really when you go to aperformance or you go to an exhibit,
the first thing you do whenyou see something amazing is you look to the person
(34:30):
next to you. I remember seeingthe cheetahs at Chester Zoo.
They were lazy for the whole dayand suddenly something got them.
They all sprinted towards the doorand one of the first things you do,
you don't look at thatand log it in your diary.
You look to the person next toyou and say, did you see that?
The first thing you do at a comedy showwhen you laugh is you look at the person
(34:52):
who you're with to laugh with,and that's not personalization.
That's about the community.
That's about the experience that youhave with people at an organization,
at a performance.
And especially in the zoo environment,
we are trying to build empathyfor animals in a variety of ways,
and one of the best ways to do thatis to have guests share their own
(35:12):
experiences with one another.
You might have someone in your visitinggroup who is uncomfortable around
snakes, and you might not feel comfortablegoing up to a snake habitat yourself,
but you might enter that buildingbecause your whole group is going in,
and then maybe they'll share, oh,
I actually had a garter snakethat lived in my backyard.
It was really neat for this reason.
I saw it sunning itselfon a rock one morning.
(35:34):
And starting to tell those storiesand build past some discomfort that
someone may initially say, oh, nope.I actually don't want to go near --
I don't want to be exposed tocertain animals or certain things.
And really being in that visiting groupcan help expand someone's thinking
around those animals as well.
Wow. I love that.
(35:55):
One of my favorite things at zoos islistening to a random kid tell me a
fact about an animal. I thinkkids want to share naturally.
I think they don't have the sort ofblockers on the adults sometimes have of
like, oh, I don't necessarily want toshare this with this other person. Kids,
they want to tell you the fact aboutthe smokey jungle frog or something.
(36:17):
And sometimes they're amazingly funand I didn't know them myself either.
It can be really fun to goout around campus and see,
what are people reallyconnecting to that day?
What did they know before they came?
What are they finding out while they'rehere? And then later finding out,
what is it inspiring them topursue after they leave our campus,
(36:39):
too?
If an organization wants to improveits visitor experience but doesn't know
where to start or perhapshas very limited resources,
what's one small stepthey could take today?
I think the first step is askingwhat needs to be improved.
Figuring out where you should actuallybe focusing your time, effort,
and energy to me is the baseline.
(36:59):
Is to get that initial feedback.
And it doesn't mean thatyou have to initially do
a full survey of everyone who's cometo your organization. In the last year,
one of the things that we did when wewere starting to work on our campus
navigation project was I dida survey of our frontline
(37:20):
staff. I said, where dopeople ask you to go to first?
Where are they trying to getto when they enter the campus?
And we were able to get a greatinitial baseline for us to then start
digging into so that we can askfurther guest questions, but that was,
we had data that wejust had never compiled,
(37:43):
and that really enabled us to get aheadstart on some things before we could
launch into a full survey orfull data collection around that.
Absolutely.
It really reminds me how often we've hadthe conversation with marketers about,
hey,
talk to your box office staff becausethey are the people who are seeing the
guests first. They'reseeing your patrons first.
(38:03):
They get all the questions that you'venever even thought would be possible to
ask or you thought had an obvious answer.
That's the other placethat we really tap into.
What questions are peoplecalling and asking about?
Because that means they have taken thetime to find a phone number and they
really want to talk to a personand find out this answer,
and that means thatthey've hit other barriers,
(38:24):
that it isn't obvious on the website.
It isn't obvious through othercommunication methods that we use.
So we want to make sure that we'recapturing those things as well.
If you could broadcast one message toexecutive directors, leadership teams,
staff,
and boards of thousandsof arts and culture and exhibition based organizations,
what would it be?
(38:44):
Please don't forget the people.I think the big thing is, right,
making sure that you rememberthat why we continue to be able to
operate is because peopleare coming to visit us.
People are coming through ourdoors. People are supporting us.
And to know that when a guest isasking for something or getting
clarification or needingassistance, we are here for them.
(39:08):
And so ensuring that we are providingthat support and thinking through and
really addressing the concerns thatexist because we wouldn't exist without
them.
Amazing. I love that.Whenever I go to a zoo,
one of the first places I look for onthe map is the reptile enclosure or the
reptile exhibits.
What's one of your favorite exhibits atthe zoo that all of our listeners should
(39:31):
go and see?
My favorite place to take a littleescape when I'm at the Detroit
Zoo is our free flight aviary.
It is a walkthrough experiencewhere birds are free to fly
all around you.
It has two story glass enclosure and
(39:51):
tons of plants.
You feel like you were completelytransformed to a jungle
forest, and you hearbird calls, bird songs,
and then you start to see them,
and that is one of the parts that Iactually love about it is you have to slow
down to be able to see all of thebirds that live inside of there.
(40:12):
Because they blend in, or they'reup high, some are down low,
and so it really slows youdown in a way that I love.
I love to be able to slow down and kindof escape time a little bit in there.
Amazing. Emily, thank you so much forbeing here. I've loved this conversation.
Thank you so much, Dan. Iappreciate you having me.
(40:38):
Let's wrap things up with a quickround of CI-lebrity Sightings.
Here's some of our favorite storiesabout CI clients in the news. First up,
Boston's WBUR reported that the cityis expanding its Family Days program,
which offers school-aged children andtheir families free access to cultural
institutions twice a month.
The program now includes performing artsinstitutions, including ArtsEmerson,
(41:01):
Boston Ballet, and HuntingtonTheatre. Excellent news, Boston!
Next,
The Children's Theater of Cincinnatireceived a major boost for their capital
campaign to restore theirhistoric Emory Theater.
An anonymous donor gave $2 million.According to Broadway World,
this donation covers half of the remainingfunds needed to reach their goal.
(41:23):
Way to go! And finally,
the San Francisco Symphony and itschorus partnered with the San Francisco
Conservatory of Music Orchestra for abenefit concert supporting those affected
by the recent Los Angeles fires.
The SF Chronicle reported that nearly1900 people attended the event.
What an incredible example of usingthe arts to bring people together for a
(41:45):
meaningful cause. Huge applause to theseorganizations for sharing art, support,
and inspiration with their communities.Got a story that deserves a shout out?
Well, tag us on social and let us know.
(42:08):
Thank you for listening to CI to Eye.
This episode was edited and produced byKaren McConarty and co-written by Karen
McConarty and myself, Dan Titmuss.
Stephanie Medina and Jess Berube are CIto Eye's designers and video editors,
and all work together tocreate CI's digital content.
Our music is by whoisuzo. Ifyou enjoyed today's episode,
(42:29):
please take a moment torate us or leave a review.
A nice comment goes a long way in helpingother people discover CI to Eye and
hear from experts in the arts and beyond.If you didn't enjoy today's episode,
pass it on to all of your enemies.Don't forget to follow us on Facebook,
Instagram, LinkedIn, YouTube,
and TikTok for regular contentto help you market smarter.
(42:50):
You can also sign up for our newsletterat capacityinteractive.com so you never
miss an update. And ifyou haven't already,
please click the subscribe buttonwherever you get your podcasts.
Until next time, stay nerdy.
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