EP#441: Exploring the Arctic Through Art and Technology with Cy Keener

In this episode, Parker Dillmann and Stephen Kraig chat with Cy Keener, an interdisciplinary artist who merges art and technology to document and visualize the natural world. Cy discusses his journey from architecture to creating custom instruments and sensors for scientific research in the Arctic. He explains how his work helps visualize complex phenomena like sea ice and ocean waves, and shares insights into his collaboration with scientists. Cy also delves into the engineering challenges of building durable sensors for extreme environments and the artistic process of transforming raw data into compelling visual art.

Key Discussion Points:

• Cy Keener's background in architecture and transition to art and technology.
• The process of designing custom instruments and sensors for Arctic research.
• Challenges of creating durable electronics for extreme environments.
• Collaboration with scientists to document and visualize sea ice and icebergs.
• The artistic process of transforming scientific data into visual art.
• The significance of art in making scientific data accessible and engaging.
• The role of broader impacts in National Science Foundation funding.
• The evolution of Cy's sensor designs from Arduino-based prototypes to advanced devices.
• The use of different materials and technologies for creating resilient enclosures.
• Insights into the conservation of electronic art for future generations.
• Examples of Cy's art installations and exhibitions showcasing Arctic data.
• The importance of merging empirical data with experiential art.

Relevant Links:

• Cy Keener's portfolio: cykeener.com
• National Science Foundation: nsf.gov
• Make Magazine article on Arduino and Iridium satellite modem: Make Magazine
• Particle devices: Particle.io

Community Questions:

• What are your thoughts on the intersection of art and technology in scientific research?
• How do you think visual art can help make complex scientific data more accessible?
• What other natural phenomena would you like to see visualized through art and technology?

MacroFab:

This show is brought to you by MacroFab, which provides a platform for electronics manufacturing services (EMS), hardware development, designing, and prototyping for individuals, startups, and businesses. Key MacroFab services include PCB (Printed Circuit Board) fabrication, assembly, and testing. Customers can use MacroFab's platform to upload their PCB designs, select components, and specify manufacturing requirements.

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Episode Transcript

Parker Dillmann (00:36):
Welcome to circuit break from Macrofab, a
weekly show about all thingsengineering, DIY projects,
manufacturing, industry news,and Arctic art. We're your
hosts, electrical engineers,Parker Dillmann. And Steven
Kraig. This is episode 441, andthis week is our guest, Cy
Keener.

Stephen Kraig (00:55):
Cy is an interdisciplinary artist focused
on recording and representingthe natural world. He is an
associate professor of sculptureand emerging technology at the
University of Maryland. Since2018, he has collaborated with
scientists to document sea ice,icebergs, and glaciers in the
Arctic with funding frommultiple institutions including

(01:16):
the National Science Foundation.His work includes a range of
database efforts to visualizediverse phenomena, including
ice, wind, rain, and oceanwaves. He received a master's of
fine arts from the stand fromStanford University and a master
of arc architecture from theUniversity of California,
Berkeley.

Parker Dillmann (01:35):
Welcome to the podcast, Sai.

Cy Keener (01:37):
Yeah. Thanks for having me. It's, it's great to
be here. I'm a a fan of the theMacrofab Institution, so I'm,
I'm happy to join.

Parker Dillmann (01:47):
So before we kinda jump into, your current
projects and stuff, can you,like, just explain maybe in the
context of a of a of a previousproject of, like, what do you
actually do? Because that'sthat's that's a big chunk of
just words that Steven just justsaid.

Stephen Kraig (02:05):
Yeah. There's a lot going on there.

Cy Keener (02:07):
I know. That's the apologies for the the academic.
That's, like, simple foracademic language, but we gotta
we we gotta, like, kinda soundfancy sometimes when we when we
describe what we do. Yeah. Imean, I think at the most basic
level, what I I have this, kindof incredible privilege of, it

(02:30):
kind of runs under the banner ofart or art professor, but,
basically, I get to designinstruments or sensors to at at
some level of specificity, andthen I get to deploy those in
the field.
So I actually get to travel anddo scientific field work in the

(02:50):
Arctic has has been the focusfor the last little while. And
then I get to receive the datathat's produced by those
sensors, and then I get tocreate art with that data. So, I
think that, you know, most folksare familiar with these models
of like data visualization,where you you receive the data
that that someone else hasgenerated and then you try to

(03:11):
help people understand it. And Ifeel like I, as an artist, and
especially with this arcticstuff, then I have this kind of
extra, sort of scope of beingable to not just receive

(03:33):
environment that I'm out therein, in, experience that
environment, think about ways totry to communicate what that's
like to other people, and thencome up with a sensing system
analogies that I use is is it, Ithink of myself a little bit

(03:56):
like a photographer and this isanalogy. I'm not, I'm not
literally a photographer, butthe photographer is out there
trying to use a tool, thecamera, to capture something
that exists in the real world.
They're making creativedecisions and how they capture
that and what that looks like,but they're still trying to kind
of show you something about theworld that exists outside of us.

(04:18):
And then I think I'm using thetool set of electrical
engineering and some mechanicalengineering and, the subject of
the environment to try to dosomething similar.

Parker Dillmann (04:31):
So so like a photographer, but you're also
building the camera.

Cy Keener (04:35):
Yeah. Absolutely. And I think photographers do that.
Or some some photographers dothat. And I think that that's
that's kind of the I would liketo to believe in some way that's
the art side that, like, to me,the artists that I really
respect out there have, like,you they are people who, if they
don't invent their tools, thenthey're very creative in the the

(04:58):
use of existing tools or they'rekind of pushing that tool use to
some sort of boundary or to theedge of what's possible.
And then sometimes, sort ofcreating their own version of
tools in order to to accomplishwhat they're doing.

Stephen Kraig (05:13):
So so I'm actually curious. Did the did
the art come first or did theelectronics come first? In other
words, did you have an idea andyou needed to invent the
electronics or did you have theelectronics and then figure out
some way to incorporate thatinto art?

Cy Keener (05:27):
Yeah. That's a great question. For me, I guess I
guess the art came first. I'vebeen lucky to be able to kind
of, I don't know, like hack awayat the at I I think what one of
the one of the greatest giftsyou can have in any kind of
creative career is just sort oflongevity or the ability to kind

(05:49):
of keep pursuing this thing,whether or not that's just
something you're doing in thebasement or it's brewing beer or
it's making drawings orpaintings or whatever, machining
parts. Like, there's this kindof, beauty that comes with just
being able to do it over alonger period of time.
And so I had, my my first sortof 3 or 4 years in art was I did

(06:11):
not know anything aboutelectronics or coding, and I was
basically using architecturaldesign skill set. You mentioned
in my bio that I was actuallytrained as an architect, which
just means that I knew how touse CAD and I knew how to make
things. And then I actually hada background in construction

(06:32):
before architecture, and so Ikind of came to architecture as
a maker or as a, a person usedto to constructing things. And
then, even when I was inarchitecture school, I got to
spend a year looking at the waythat CNC technology was being
incorporated into crafttraditions, construction craft

(06:52):
traditions, around the world.And, so I kind of brought that
skill set to art, and then thatlooked like we still had a sort
of similar subject.
I was still interested in theenvironment or just these
experiences that I'd hadoutside, and trying to
communicate those. But the themethod was more it's what they

(07:15):
call installation art, which iswhere you transform a space. And
so it's, you know, people arefamiliar with painting and
sculpture, but then installationart means more just working at a
room scale or environmentalscale within a building
typically, and then you'recreating an experience for
someone to walk through. So Ihad a kind of period of of doing

(07:37):
that, and then, it wasrewarding, but I I wanted. It
felt a little bit, like,circular instead of self
referential or limited, and andI just really liked, I guess,
this idea that I described a fewminutes ago of being able to
just really see something or,like, represent or represent

(07:59):
something about the real worldand that sort of the the real
world is way more complex thanany interesting than any ideas
that I have in my head about it.
And so I see sensors likebasically, you know, sensors
from an EE perspective, allow usto see and hear and experience
things that we cannot with oursenses, like with our our kind

(08:22):
of 5 human senses. And so Ithink that that was really the
attraction, that drew me into,going back to school for art.
And then I basically I went toschool for art at an engineering
school, and then I used thattime to take, like, basic
atmospheric science andoceanography and then mechanical
engineering product design, andthen also, like a sensor network

(08:47):
class, like a civil andenvironmental engineering
network class that had somebasic signal processing content.
And then but I I learnedelectronics and I learned coding
in our context. So it wasactually, from my art
professors, that and using thethe Arduino environment that I

(09:09):
came into, like, that skill set.

Stephen Kraig (09:13):
So why the Arctic?

Parker Dillmann (09:15):
Yeah. You you mentioned a bit, you took some
oceanography classes too.

Cy Keener (09:21):
Yeah. I think there's, you know, some of the
some of the things that youchoose in your career, I feel
like you you kind of I don'tknow. Some some of the things
are are kind of circumstantial,and then some things are are
intentional. But I guess thatthe maybe the evolution, of my

(09:42):
sensor projects as an artist waswas kind of it's maybe it's
worth talking about, but the thevery first large scale sensor
project that I did, it was kindof trying to get to that
installation scale, was I put 30wind speed and direction sensors
out in this field, that Stanfordmaintained and that had a good

(10:03):
Wi Fi access and had power. Soit was this kind of biological
preserve.
And so I put 30 of these windspeed and direction sensors out
fairly close to each other in agrid, in an array. And then I
had 30, lights on servos thatwere at a gallery space about 4
miles away back at campus, andthen each of the wind speed and

(10:25):
direction sensors was indexed toone of the lights. So it
basically created this array,like a, vector field of the
wind. So that the whole ideathere was to basically, you you
stand in a field of grass andyou get to watch the wind cross
the field and you get to see allthe kind of intricate patterns

(10:46):
that the that the wind makes.And then this was a art piece
that was an attempt to visualizethat or to kind of re, sort of
do that in a technical means asopposed to just taking video of
the grass or something likethat.
So that one, I I got to use abunch of try to do an array of

(11:07):
30 sensors, which is really hardto do. There's just always
things breaking, but it wasstill dependent on Wi Fi and
power. There was, I gotbasically an outhouse that was
nearby that had a power outlet,and so it ran off of that. And
then I still had to do one moreproject, as part of my master's

(11:28):
degree, and so I just I kindawanted to see how far I could
take that. Like, could I improveon that?
And then the the idea that I hadwas to put things in the ocean
and then to switch to battery,solar, and, satellite
communication. And there is aarticle that came out in Make
Magazine, and this kind of shortarticle that just pointed the

(11:49):
way to do that with Arduino anda Iridium satellite modem and a
GPS. And so I I kinda went downthat path, and then I think that
was sorta 2016 ish. And thenwhen I showed up to to start
working as a professor here inMaryland, Washington DC is a
really great area because wehave NOAA, NASA, and all these

(12:10):
other folks nearby, and I endedup making connection with,
somebody at the National IceCenter. There's a a place that
the federal government andmaritime safety and and defense,
and, and that to sort of openthe door to, and that to sort of
open the door to, being able togo to the Arctic or being able

(12:32):
to kind of think about makingsensors for the Arctic and kind
of adapt this PCB and circuitand some code that I'd been
working on from a kind of warmocean environment to a cold
ocean environment.
And then I just poured all myenergy into that, and then
that's what kind of turned intothis longer term collaboration,

(12:54):
with a group of scientists thatI've that's now kinda coming up
on 5 years. And so so yeah. AndI think the Arctic like, I grew
up in the Pacific Northwest. Igrew up in Seattle, and I had
access to to mountains andglaciers and some of that
outdoor stuff when I was growingup. And then the Arctic Before I
started going there, it feltlike some kind of mythical place

(13:17):
that people didn't really get toexperience, but you, like, saw
the National Geographic movies.
And then, just getting toexperience that firsthand was
pretty powerful. And, I just dideverything I could to make
myself useful to that group andto try to to really, just become

(13:39):
a part of their team. And so atthis point, I'm I'm, basically
their self appointed, like, rand d division. So scientists
are always trying to they alwayswanna do new things and measure
new things or try out new ideas,but they don't really have the
time to, create new instruments.And, then the option is the off

(14:02):
the shelf options from differentcommercial companies are kinda
limited.
So, my strange skill set, like,my formal title is sculpture and
emerging technology, whichdoesn't mean that much to
anyone, but I I do this mix ofelectrical engineering, kind of
mechanical engineering, and thenenclosure design. So it's
basically just all of the same,like, that same consumer

(14:26):
electronic skill set that goesinto any product. And I just do
that for I've I've basicallyprototype. Like, I I prototype
instruments, is is mycontribution, and do kind of low
low production runs of differentinstruments that hopefully
enable the scientists to do whatthey're doing better or to do

(14:46):
things in a in an improved wayor a slightly different way.

Parker Dillmann (14:51):
Well, let's, let's dig into the electronics
then. So I guess let's let'stalk about, like, what the
current iteration and thenmaybe, like, the history leading
up to it. Like how did you gofrom an Arduino into something
that can survive, in the waterin the Arctic? That's that

(15:12):
because that's its own set ofengineering challenges.

Cy Keener (15:16):
Yeah. And I would I, I approach that very humbly in
the sense that that the Arcticis a is a pretty harsh
environment, and I would neverkind of say that I've solved
that problem. I think we're kindof continually trying to to
improve on our our longevity ofthe instruments. But, yeah, the
development of that was superfun. So, I guess I started with

(15:41):
that Make Magazine article, andthen in, in, in art school, I
basically taught myself, how tobuild, I guess, like, PCBs for,
breakout boards.
So, like, basically, just like aI don't know what the kind of

(16:02):
correct term for that is, butjust like a a PCB that would
have a bunch of headers and andfixed routing on it so that you
could plug in, like, you know,your Arduino Nano plus the GPS
plus some sort of sensor, andthen they would all talk to each
other and be a little bit morerobust than just a bunch of junk
soldered together, with wires.And so I I taught myself how to

(16:25):
use Eagle using a book, and thenI the art method is is really
project based and experiential.You just kind of try and fail
and then try again. And I had aadviser, at Stanford who has
been doing art and electronicsfor, I guess, close to 45 or 50

(16:46):
years now. And he was actuallyat Atari, in the early days, and
he was at Xerox PARC.
And so I think I think thatthere's this like, most of the
EE community probably doesn'tknow, but there's a there's
actually a pretty strong historyof artists working in
electronics and at thesedifferent organizations over the
years. So, I would get as far asI could get, and then I would

(17:09):
run next door to his studio.Instead of calling them labs, we
call them studios in art, and Iwould run next door with my
questions. And kinda I would saythat save up all my questions
because I didn't wanna be thereevery 5 minutes, and then I
would just kinda run next doorand he would, like, tell me what
to do or how to solve thisstuff. Yeah.
So I I got some traction out ofthat and just it was a really a

(17:29):
great time and place to also bedoing that stuff. Like, I was at
Stanford. I think RadioShackwas, like, just about to go out
of business, the localRadioShack, and then we had this
JMCO, electronics. So I couldjust get in the car and cruise
20 minutes down the freeway andbe able to pick up stuff. And I
would I would submit these,like, bare bones PCBs to Bay

(17:51):
Area Circuits at, like, 4 PM,and then I would be there, like,
lurking in their parking lot thenext day waiting for my email to
the the circuit was ready and

Parker Dillmann (18:02):
Imagine you, like, peering into the blinds.

Cy Keener (18:06):
Yeah. I was, like, usually, they emailed me around
4. So I'll be there at, like,355. And, Yeah. So it's just
this kind of amazing and and funperiod of of figuring that stuff
out through trial and error, butwith really good support from
some knowledgeable folks.
So that I think that was kindaphase 1, and then that yielded
these different, sort of plugand play, like, PCBs. And then

(18:31):
when the arctic, like,opportunity came up, then I
spent about 6 months. I waslike, oh, I gotta up my game. I
need to do my first, like, fullsurface mount PCB What? And,
like, a standalone PCB.
Yeah. Go ahead.

Parker Dillmann (18:44):
Is when because you jumped from you know, you're
doing these projects, withStanford and stuff and then to
the Arctic. How did I know yousaid you met some people that
like, some scientists that wereworking up there, but how did
that conversation actually go?Like, the Yeah. Like, was it

(19:05):
like you just, like, chilling ata bar with them and then they're
like, man, these sensors that wehave are they suck.

Stephen Kraig (19:13):
Or or

Parker Dillmann (19:14):
or was it more like you pitch what you can do?

Cy Keener (19:18):
That's a really great question. Yeah. So I work at the
University of Maryland. And atthe time when I showed up, then
they had somebody whose job wasto try to connect you with
people who you didn't know, butyou but might be, like, good
collaborators.

Parker Dillmann (19:33):
Like synergy kind of stuff?

Cy Keener (19:36):
Yeah. Or just,

Parker Dillmann (19:38):
yeah.

Cy Keener (19:38):
I mean, I think Synergy is right, but then also
just somebody you couldactually, like, do projects with
or something. So I I wasactually I was looking for
somebody that could help mewith, I guess, access and also
just more technical expertiserelated to glaciers. And then I
got put in touch with thisreally wonderful guy, John
Woods, who at the time was atthe National Ice Center, but he

(20:02):
had been a meteorology andoceanography officer in the
Navy. And then he had actuallytaught at the part of his active
duty was teaching undergrads atthe Naval Academy. So the Naval
Academy Annapolis is just, justoutside of town here.
He had spent, like, a year ofhis life working on, building
buoys using Arduino andRaspberry Pi stuff with these

(20:24):
undergrads as a capstoneproject. So the Naval Academy
does these really ambitiouscapstone projects. Like, they'll
launch cube satellites. They'll,they'll do these pretty
technical kind of things. And,and so we actually just bonded
over like, I got an introductionto him, and then we bonded over
just kind of trying to figureall this stuff out in a Arduino

(20:46):
slash Raspberry Pi environment.
I think he had, like, a littlebit more sophisticated, approach
to it technically, but he wasn'treally he was more, like,
managing that. Like, there wassomebody at the Stanford
Research Institute, just kindacoincidentally, that was that
was kinda doing his coding andhis hardware dev for him. But he

(21:06):
had just kinda had thisexperience and we bonded over
that and just trying to getstuff to work out there. So
Like, if it just getting stuffto work out there is really
hard. So so that was my end, andthen I I basically, like,
committed myself to, to tryingto contribute to what he was
doing.
And initially, it was more like,I'll just send the instruments,

(21:28):
but then he could see just allthe work I was putting into it.
And I I had this background inclimbing and kind of outdoor
stuff. And so I was just like,hey, you know, if if you ever
get a chance to let me join,like, I'd be excited to join.
And so it was actually I met himin July or August, and then it
was, like, March of the nextyear that I was actually in the
Arctic for the first time withthis science team.

Stephen Kraig (21:48):
Oh, that's cool.

Cy Keener (21:49):
Which is a pretty pretty quick turnaround. Super
lucky. I didn't know at thetime, but he actually had a
whole track record of enablingthat kind of access. So there's
he had actually let, this this,woman artist who does these
really beautiful glacial kind ofpaintings, like, on these NASA

(22:10):
flights, so that she could takepictures and kinda see these,
like, these NASA overflights ofGreenland and Arctic and and
stuff like that. So I thinkthat, you know, the scientific
community is kinda open to theright folks and and I think that
maybe one other practical thingI'll throw in here is that the
the National Science Foundationis when you submit a proposal to

(22:34):
them, it's competitive, butyou're judged on the science
that you're doing.
They call that the intellectualmerit, but you're also judged on
your ability to share that withthe public. And they get the
term that they have for that iscalled broader impacts. But
basically, they're saying it'snot good enough for you just to
do the science, but you have toalso basically try to tell the
taxpayer why it's worth doing orlike what's exciting about it.

(22:57):
And so that's that's kind ofbeen my, that's my I feel like
if I have a superpower as anartist, it's like my ability to
collaborate with scientists andthen to, to that allows me to
also have access to funding.That is like, I I get kind of
like a small portion of whatthey get, but for an artist,

(23:18):
it's like a huge amount.
Right. So, there's, like,there's kind of like different
different scales at work there.

Stephen Kraig (23:25):
Do do you find

Parker Dillmann (23:26):
that Yeah.

Cy Keener (23:26):
So that's sorry. It's kind of a long explanation, but
I think that that's it's it'slike a human it's just a human
thing, like, I got introduced tosomebody, and I just worked
really hard to try to, to, be apart of the team, basically.

Stephen Kraig (23:40):
Is that part, do you find that part difficult,
the justification of theproject?

Cy Keener (23:46):
Oh, gosh. I mean, I feel like once you once you
decide you're an artist andjustification is kinda out the
window. Like, you're you're sortof

Stephen Kraig (23:57):
Well, but but but but just be like, it's cool.

Parker Dillmann (24:00):
Let me do it because it's

Stephen Kraig (24:01):
cool. Well, but but but even even you saying it
to the taxpayer justification tothe taxpayer can be an uphill
battle. Right? I I I did alittle bit of, audio no. Sorry.
I did a little bit of artelectronics with a collaborative
group back in Houston, and andit was very difficult for us to
find funding, because it wasvery difficult for us to, I
guess, you could say prove to aplace that, hey. This this is

(24:24):
going to be a thing that brings,I don't know, brings something
to the table. I don't even knowhow what to what to say about
it, but it was very difficultfor us.

Cy Keener (24:34):
Yeah. And I and I think that's an open
conversation. There there is amovement, to to kind of promote
or or to kinda explore this ideaof arts based research. So
there's actually been, there'sbeen a movement to try to say
that the arts approach canproduce knowledge. Like, it's

(24:58):
not just about datavisualization.
So there's there's sort ofgroups of folks out there that
are really trying to say thatthis arts approach actually has
something positive to, toprovide or to kind of share with
the public. And I feel likewithin my own work, then that's
the ability like, almosteverything that I make on the
art side or in the the kind ofexhibition side is is at a human

(25:22):
scale. So I'm really interestedin not like, we all know what
it's like to look at a graph,and we all know what it's like
to to sort of receiveinformation intellectually. But,
like, one one of my art pieces,it takes, light and temperature
sensors throughout, basically,like a core of active sea ice
that's out there in the oceanthat's 5 foot thick. And then it

(25:45):
receives that data by asatellite, and then it recreates
that data at full scale, a oneto one scale using about a 1000
LEDs in this tube.
And so then the idea is that youcan stand next to this tube of
LED light, and you canexperience the colors, the RGB
colors for exactly what they arein the ice that day with, like,

(26:05):
4 hour latency or whatever. Andthen you can sort of experience
it as an embodied human, whichis a totally different thing
than sort of, like, reading somechart or some graph or something
like that. So I think I thinkthat it's we're not after like,
I will never tell you thatartists are trying to produce
the same thing as scientificinformation or it's a it's like

(26:30):
a different mode, but I thinkthat there's there's different
ways that we understand things.Like, we understand things
through experience. And and justlike in engineering, there's
there's a empirical approach tounderstanding things.
So there's there's the datasheet calculation approach, and
they both have their their valueand their their kind of time and
place. And so I think that I'm alittle bit more on that, like

(26:52):
using data to create thisempirical approach. Another art
piece that I have takes, wavereadings from the ocean, and
then it projects a laser linearound the room. So it's more of
like a mechatronic piece, but itthe idea with that is just that
you can experience the the kindof mood of the ocean through the
this horizon line shifting upand down. So I I think that I'm

(27:13):
really after, like, in some ofmy work, I'm after really trying
to to sort of share thisexperience of the place or kind
of have it be this embodiedexperience.
But I also that's that's, like,the the kind of ambitious art
side to my work, but I'm alsopretty conservative in the sense
that it's I feel like it's agreat privilege to get to ride

(27:35):
along with these scientists, andI wanna contribute to their core
mission, and not just be thereas, like, an art kinda add on
that, like, is gonna get cutwhen the budget gets cut or
something. And so I actually usethe this kind of, like, low cost
IoT Arduino approach to try tobuild instruments that
contribute to their coremission. So the group that I

(27:56):
work with is the InternationalArctic Buoy Program, and they're
responsible for putting thesensors on the Arctic Ocean that
contribute to numerical weatherprediction, which is just a
fancy term for, like, theweather forecast. So if you were
seeing the tornado or, like, thehurricane prediction, then then

(28:17):
the hurricane path or all that.There's, like, the American
weather model.
There's the European weathermodel. The the Arctic Ocean is
the size of the United States,and it has whatever sensors the
group that I work with can putout there, which is typically,
like, a 150 to 200 at any onetime. And then the United
States, like, the land mass hasabout a quarter million weather

(28:38):
sensors. So there's a hugedifference in, the kind of
quality and the the, amount ofdata that goes into those
systems. So, yeah.
So the the kind of bread andbutter funding wise for what we
do is is getting a pressuresensor and a temperature sensor
on the surface of the ArcticOcean in as many places as
possible, and that's what drivesthe the weather models. So I

(29:02):
think I have a there's, like, amaybe that sort of romantic side
of me that likes to to do theart stuff, but then I also want
to I wanna be on the plane whenit takes off. I wanna be part of
the mission critical team andand get to go out there and see
that stuff. And so I I do both,you know, I I try to to

(29:25):
contribute to the the fulleffort.

Stephen Kraig (29:28):
So so as of right now, there's I don't know. What
I don't if you mentioned thenumber, but there's a number of
Arduinos surviving up in theArctic. I I'm I I looked up the
the temperature range of of anArduino, and they're technically
rated down to negative 40 c andthe average arctic temperature
is like negative 12. Sotechnically it's within range

(29:49):
but I I would have neverexpected that an Arduino would
survive up there. That's that'sfascinating and I love that
you're contributing to that kindof knowledge.
It's just yeah. You can use anArduino extensively up there. It
were in that kind ofenvironment.

Cy Keener (30:05):
Yeah. No. The I mean, this the circuit development was
fun. I mean, it basically, itbasically comes down to just
creating a device that is as lowpower as possible, and it can
work on a wide range ofvoltages. So, the, I guess, that
the the kind of engineeringanswer to an Arctic battery is

(30:27):
this thing.
It's a lithium thionyl chloridebattery. It's like this weird,
chemical composition, but it'slike, Tataran is the company
that makes it. So this is more,like, military grade batteries.
And then that's the one batterythat is sort of approved to
operate down to minus 40, andit's gonna, it's gonna work for

(30:48):
you at all times. But thatbattery, you cannot bring on a
passenger airplane.
So it's, like, really amazingfrom an engineering perspective,
but, like, almost completelyuseless from, like, getting it
into the field perspective. Andeven if you commit to that
battery, like, some of my firstdevices that I deployed had that
battery, But even if you committo it, you still it still has a

(31:12):
a pretty radical voltage dropover that, temperature range. So
I think that the the one that Iwas using was sort of like 3.9
at, like room temperature, andthen it would get down to, like,
2.7 or something like that at aat the minus 40 temperature. And
it has to have it has to becustom made. It has to have this
capacitor if you're gonna use itfor, like, Sherpa's data or any

(31:36):
of the, like, Iridiumcommunication and all these kind
of complications.
And then a lot of the folks inArctic science actually just end
up using alkaline cells, which Ithink we we all kind of dismiss
as being, kind of low tech ornot good in the cold, but, the I
don't know. The know. Theoceanographic community just has
pretty good luck with thealkaline cells, operating, and

(31:58):
they also have that prettyradical voltage drop, that that
takes place over thattemperature range. But but yeah.
I mean, I think all of the like,when I say Arduino, then I'm in
the current status of my board,like, the PCB that I've been
working on since about 2018, I Icall it the ice drifter.
I'm not quite sure how we got tothat name. I think it was just,

(32:19):
like, a a project name thatstuck around. But, but that
thing is a, it's a ATmega6441284. So it's basically, we
started with the 328 and ran outof room. So we basically just,
like, started with an ArduinoUno and then ran out of room for
what we were trying to do onthere.
It has a a TI boost circuit. Sothe, the so the cool thing about

(32:45):
the the ATmega series is thatthey they can run just on raw
battery power with a prettycrazy voltage range. I I forget
what it is, but it's, like, 1.8to 5 something. So you actually
don't have to to condition orregulate that power over a
pretty wide range. So I havethat thing just hooked up to
direct battery power.
I have all my kinda peripheralstuff switched, just with,

(33:09):
enable pins on voltageregulators. And so I it it's
going into, like, a kinda poortimer, just like watchdog timer
sleep mode. For an hour, it'swaking back up. It's, querying
the GPS and finding out whattime it is, finding out if it's
supposed to do stuff or just goback to sleep. And then, if it

(33:30):
does if it is time for it to dosomething, then it goes around,
and it it does a barometricpressure, external temperature,
and fires up the GPS to get alocation.
And then it shuts all that down,and then it fires up the boost
circuit, which, which enablesthe Iridium satellite modem.
I've been mostly using theseIridium, or these these other

(33:55):
PCBs produced by a companycalled rockbroc rock Block. I
think they changed it groundcontrol, but basically this,
they came up with a just asupport PCB for the Iridium
modem. And we found in theory,it has a battery pin, but we
found that it was unreliablewithout that TI boost, getting
it up to 5 volts. So, yeah, sothat's kind of the range.
Like, we've tested it down to2.7 volts, and I've got one

(34:20):
that's been sitting at this testtable in the Arctic. I was
looking at it last night, and Ithink it it's at, like, 28 100
transmits or something, andthat's at a twice per day cycle.
So that thing's beentransmitting for, like, 3 years
now, and that's in literally thenorthernmost point of Alaska. I
think it's around 72 degreesnorth, And it it it's on a on a

(34:43):
table about, you know, about aquarter mile from the ocean, up
by this NOAA station there. And,I've swapped the battery on it,
but the the PCB and the modemhave just been running since, I
don't know, about 2021 sometime.
So yeah. So it's not it's it'slike a bunch of Arduino code.
It's a bunch of open sourcecircuits that I kinda hacked, or

(35:07):
I I would basically just get ridof all the stuff that I didn't
want, add in some, some powermanagement, and then try to make
the board somewhat condensed.Yeah. And just just improve that
over time.
Had really good mentors thatwould, you know, I would make my

(35:29):
version of it, and then theywould look at it and laugh and
tell me all the things I didwrong and send me back a bunch
of notes. And, I would makerevisions. And, eventually, that
went all the way to the silkscreen where my my friend was
like, look, man. You just gottayou gotta do a better job with
the silk screen. This thinglooks like shit.
So, he's also a designer and anartist. He's like, he does EE

(35:53):
stuff, but, yeah. So I thinkit's a yeah. So, like, that's
been kind of the journey. Iactually hand built, probably
the first 30 units of, like, 3or 4 revs of that.
And then, switching over toMacrofab was, like, my big my
step up to the big leagues whereI got a little bit of science

(36:15):
money, and I was able to, to dolike, like, I I was kinda like a
OSH Park, OSH OSH stencil, like,hand build on the target Teflon
hot plate kinda guy, for awhile, and then, yeah, and then
switched over. I think even whenI started on that board, I
brought in all of the the macrofab and house parts into the

(36:38):
into the Eagle library, and Iwas specifically just like,
okay. These guys are I'll I'llkinda offload whatever parts are
a thing that I can to these guysand then, just go after my my
primary components. So

Parker Dillmann (36:52):
That that's that's interesting to hear. So
that means that footprints thatSteven and I designed are in the
Arctic because Steven and Iworked on that Absolutely, man.
Steven and I worked on that partlibrary.

Stephen Kraig (37:03):
That was that was a while ago. A long time ago.
Yeah.

Cy Keener (37:07):
Yeah. Is it is it okay that I'm still using it?
Oh, yeah. Is anybody using it?Okay.
Good. I I just think it's that

Parker Dillmann (37:14):
this is the first time we've talked to
someone who's used them.

Cy Keener (37:18):
Oh, alright. On the podcast.

Parker Dillmann (37:21):
I I imagine as people are using them because I
I use them all the time. So

Cy Keener (37:27):
Yeah. No. I think I think they're great, and I think
I have because I lacked, like, 5years of EE formal training,
then I I have, like, a I thinkof it kind of like a
superstitious approach whereit's like, if this worked for
somebody else, then there's achance it's gonna work for me.
And so any anything I can do tokinda triangulate and validate,
like, this is the, you know,this is a part that I'm working

(37:50):
with someone else's sort ofproven results, then I will take
it. I will take it for sure.
Yeah. And then in, like, 10days, I'm going back to we have
this really great gig with theAir National Guard in Anchorage
right now. I think I said Ishared some of these images with
your support team when I gotstuck in needing their help back
in January. And, yeah. So Ithink in in, like, 10 days or

(38:14):
something, I'll head back toAlaska, and we've actually got a
version of the buoy that, cansurvive getting thrown out of
airplane and have a parachuteopen and then land on the ice
and then operate from the iceand the the open ocean once the
ice melts.
So there's another 8 of thosethose macro fab library circuits
are gonna get thrown out theairplane here in about 14 days.

Parker Dillmann (38:35):
So So so I wanna I wanna talk about the,
oh, because because you've beendeveloping this this hardware
for about 5 years now. How hasit changed? What what have you
learned over those 5 years tomake the circuit better?

Cy Keener (38:50):
Oh, man. I mean, I think that the the the hard spot
was I just went through the Iwent through a mild version of
the pandemic part shortage justlike all of everyone else did.
And I think that that, thatkinda made it just difficult to
keep producing the thing. Andthen then I made some yeah. I

(39:16):
mean, you can just laugh at mefor a minute, but I made some
really dumb, mistakes and thenhad to kinda fix them.
But one of them was that ifyou're if you're coming at this
kind of from the outside, like,you just really like LED lights
that tell you that it's working.And so for maybe, like, the
first 4 or 5 years, I I wastrying to do this ultra low
power device, but I had a LEDlight that I couldn't disable.

(39:38):
It took me a while to so Ibasically had, like, a LED light
in a dark box in the Arctic andit was using up, like, half my
battery. So so the most the mostrecent rev actually has, it has,
some pins that that you can,connect and then turn the LED
light on, but it doesn't come,like, naturally powered. We've

(40:00):
had to swap the, the pressuresensor, like I switch from a
Bosch BMP280 to this TE sensorthat's, part of that was just
due to some parts shortagestuff.
But then also, this TE sensoractually has this kind of nice
stainless steel, mount that youcan put an o ring on. So you can

(40:22):
actually put, like, a tube downto it, which is kinda cool. And
then, I'm sort of slacking, butI I would like to I think I
think that the thing that Iwould definitely wanna change on
it moving forward is justupgrading the processing power.
Like, we're we would, I've hadplans for, like, 2 or 3 years to
make us the MD 21 version of it.And the, you know, the the

(40:45):
ATmega works fine, but it justfeels like using an ATmega in
2024 is, like, slightly strangething to do when there's there's
other options out there.
So I think there's that. The bigthe big project that I'm trying
to take on is is that I've beenusing these sensors. Like we

(41:07):
will do these kind ofperipherals with it. So the
circuit has the ability to tocommunicate over serial or ITC
to other devices. And so, abunch of the work that I've done
in the Arctic, has involvedtemperature and light sensors
created by a Croatian company,that are these kind of custom

(41:29):
sensors for Arctic applications,and they're they're basically
like a flex PCB with a bunch oflittle thermistors or a bunch of
RGB IR sensors at like a 2centimeter or 5 centimeter
increment, and you put thosedown through the ice.
But basically, we've had to, todo that. We would like, they had
their own ATmega 328 board thatwould talk to the sensors and

(41:52):
that it would communicate backand forth to my ATmega board
over serial and kinda send thedata then do that. But we'd like
to kinda bring that in house. SoI've I've got sorta unrealized
designs to to try to bring thatin house. I also spent a bunch
of time, sorting out my ownIridium support board, and I got

(42:17):
that to end build stage, butthen I haven't kind of done a
full I got that working at thatstage, but I haven't done, like,
a full production run of thatand gotten that out into the
Arctic.
So there's a bunch of like, Iguess my problem as an artist is
that I I have, like, too wide ofa skill set or something or,
like, too many ambitions to dodifferent things, and then it

(42:39):
just kinda goes in cycles. But Iwould love to to carve out 6
months just to to kinda crankout 3 or 4 iterations of like,
future iterations of the thing.So so, yeah, I mean, I think I
think it in some ways I've justexperienced all the same that
sort of, like, design formanufacturing and parts shortage

(43:01):
stuff on a smaller scale that,that everyone else has
experienced and kinda struggledwith.

Parker Dillmann (43:06):
Yeah. Having too much to do is about you're
at home here.

Cy Keener (43:13):
Yeah. I get that. I I listen to to you guys a little
bit, and I I, I get that. Yeah.

Parker Dillmann (43:21):
That's not a bad thing.

Cy Keener (43:22):
I think no. I agree with you. I think it's a it's a
good thing for sure. But I thinkyou went on one of the the the
snippets I listened to. You saidyou can't talk about projects
unless they're over 50 percentdone.
So I think I might have justbroken the rule on 1 of those

Stephen Kraig (43:38):
1

Cy Keener (43:38):
or 2 of those projects. So apologies.

Stephen Kraig (43:40):
We've been trying really hard to stick to that
rule. Yeah.

Cy Keener (43:45):
It's easy to have good ideas. You know, a lot of
people have good ideas. Yes.It's hard to have a working
circuit. So So,

Parker Dillmann (43:52):
Sai, I wanna talk about the enclosure, now.
Yeah. So because you now have anew version. So I wanna talk
about the old version and maybe,like, the first iteration of
how, like, it came the enclosurecame about to survive the arctic
Mhmm. And then up to the currentversion that now you can just
like yeet it out of a plane and

Stephen Kraig (44:11):
it's fine.

Cy Keener (44:14):
Yeah. I don't I think that that path has been pretty
windy but I think that the yeah.I mean, the the forces up there
are kinda tricky. There's thecold that we've talked about,
but then, one of the biggesthurdles is that that the Arctic

(44:35):
has this stuff called sea ice.Sea ice forms on the surface of
the ocean just like it forms ona lake.
So it's actually, like, startingon the surface and then
thickening from the air. Andthen that stuff moves around on
the surface of the ocean. Sothere's obviously ocean currents
and then there's wind. And sothen that stuff kind of moves
around and collides into itselfand makes this whole crazy

(44:57):
landscape. But there's a there'sa ton of crushing forces, with
all that.
So your your kind of idealenclosure has to operate in the
cold, but it also has to absorb,like, I don't know, thousands of
pound blocks of stuff comingtogether and trying to crush it.

(45:18):
Like, it's a it's a pretty,impossible task to really just
solve. I think the the buoysthat, that really last for 3 to
5 years are solving that almostat, like, a small boat scale,
which I'm not really interestedin working at. But when we,
like, when we go to Alaska in acouple of weeks, we'll be

(45:39):
putting some of these buoys outthat weigh a £180, and they
actually have, like, afiberglass hole that's
equivalent to kind of, like, asmall, a small boat. And that
hole is pretty good at kind of,like, rising up out of ice and
surviving all that.
And then we also there's anothersmaller scale sort of, like,

(46:01):
beach ball scale, like, 30 poundbuoy that is just a sphere. So I
think the sphere is, like, apretty good shape, for for
surviving all that that kind ofcrushing forces. And, so those
are the defaults, and then ourour super lazy, enclosure is a
Pelican box. So so that's kindof, like, the opposite of

(46:22):
extremes. On the one side, wehave, like, a $40,000 custom
made thing that's made by aship, like a small boat making
company.
And then on the other side, ifwe're just trying to see if
something works, then we'll usea Pelican box, and try to test
that. And then my my enclosureskinda fall in between there. I
think in the earlier days, thena lot of my enclosures were,

(46:46):
kind of riff on that thathemispheres or kind of 2
hemispheres with a o ring, andsome sort of clamping force,
like some a bunch of bolts andthen the different sealing
approaches using, like I don'tknow, like 3 ms makes this below
the water line sealant that'skind of like a caulk, and all
these kind of things. And then Ispent the last year working on a

(47:08):
a tube buoy. So we actually,there's this whole other group
up in New Hampshire that hasbeen making these 10 or 12 foot
long tube buoys that use, 4inch, either historically they
use 4 inch PVC pipe and then themore recent ones use ABS pipe.
You're basically just going toHome Depot or Lowe's and you're
buying like 4 inch pipe and thenthey're you're building a buoy

(47:31):
around that. They have So that'swhat the air

Parker Dillmann (47:32):
They have Arctic rated PVC pipe?

Cy Keener (47:36):
They they don't. You end up you end up to I mean,
it's just like Arturopeo. Right?You end up with this mash up of,
like, kind of high spec stuffand then just kinda, like,
whatever was laying around.

Stephen Kraig (47:46):
Yeah. I I I I like that, yeah, the mil spec
battery that probably cost a lotand has a long lead time and
then Home Depot pipe.

Cy Keener (47:55):
Yeah. Yeah. I mean, my my equivalent of that for the
first round of these, it wasthat I would buy this $150 chunk
of ABS, this, like, inch and ahalf, what 12 by 12 inch chunk
of ABS from McMaster Carr. Andthen I would pay these, like,
these instructional fab labs,these, like, undergrad labs to c
and c that thing. And then andthen I would attach that to,

(48:15):
like, $5 a pipe.
It was my way of, like, tryingto to just be like, okay. I know
that I I will have this, like,custom part, that needs to
absorb a bunch of forces in it.I want it to be, like, ABS
proper. But now we're we've beenjust evolving that design. I
haven't been doing that on myown.
It's been one of the greatthings about the end of the

(48:35):
university is that I get tocollaborate a bunch, and so I've
actually been working on thatdesign with a group of undergrad
aerospace students for the lastyear. So I I ran a cohort of 5
or 6, and then one of the one ofthem is just super talented at
at kind of part design. And sohe and I have been moving that
thing forward, and it's almostall, ABS 3 d prints at this

(48:57):
point. So we've kind of figuredout ways of pulling a lot of the
forces, like like, putting theforces into the tube and kind of
pulling them out of customparts. And then, this weird
German company came up withthis, chemical that you can
bathe FDM prints in, and itmakes them suitable for
underwater applications.
So it sort of, like, heals allthe layers. And so we've been

(49:19):
testing that for, like, the last3 or 4 months, and then, 3 m
makes this other, like, reallyMasterCar sells it as, like, a
fire resistant wire repaircoating, but it's, it's this
really amazing, resin that youcan basically just use a thin
layer of to kind of seal things.And then the underwater robotics

(49:41):
community uses that stuff as,like, duct tape or whatever.
Like, if there's ever a problem,then you just put this this,
like, 3 m product on it, andit's solved as far as, like It

Stephen Kraig (49:50):
just fixed.

Cy Keener (49:51):
Waterproofing things at depth. Yeah.

Parker Dillmann (49:53):
Is it Flex Seal?

Cy Keener (49:54):
Is it? No. It's, but I I wouldn't like, I don't wanna
admit this in public, but I Imay have used Flex Seal on other
projects. It makes, like, not anot a terrible, not a terrible,
option for some ceiling stuff.But, yeah, I forget this.

(50:15):
It's something cast, but thisthis, 3 m product is so now our
current thing is, like, the ABSpipe is these treated, ABS FDM
prints, and then there's this,like, this 3 d three m, like,
resin product that goes over thetop of that. And then we have
some some water jet cut ringsthat are for the parachute

(50:37):
attachment and trying to get theparachute to detach from it.
Yeah. But I think our goal, youknow, like, the the Norwegians
make one of these ice buoysthat's in the $30,000 range.
This other American companythat's kinda like boat maker
makes these $40,000 buoys, andthen our job or my goal is
always to sort of make somethingthat's in the, like I think my
electronics with the Iridiummodem and the battery and stuff

(51:00):
probably cost around $500.
And then if I can hit somethingmore like $1,000 of course, this
excludes time, so it's you gottabe careful. But I have a I work
at the university and my timeis, like, covered by by them and
then so I'm I'm aiming for thismore, like, $1,000, like, bomb

(51:21):
cost, I guess, to to try toreplace an instrument that
typically costs more, like,35100 to 40,000 or whatever. So
I think that's what the Arduino,like, community and then you
guys as well kinda opened up andjust kinda made it possible is
that, like, you know, 20 yearsago, I would have had to be a

(51:42):
full EE and, in order to haveany effectiveness in this in
these areas. But I think thatthat these communities, have
really kinda opened access tofolks like me. Yeah.
But enclosures are hard, and I Ifeel like I'm still I'm still

(52:05):
learning, and we're still we'restill testing.

Stephen Kraig (52:09):
You know, we're we're about 50, 52 minutes into
this episode, and I feel like wecould go a whole another episode
talking about the art side ofthings, but but I think I think
it would be, I think we need totouch on that at least just a
little bit here. So so theactual presentation of what you
are doing with the data, can youtalk about that? Is it are are

(52:31):
you doing gallery shows, or whatdoes it actually look like?

Cy Keener (52:34):
Yeah. I think I did a series of electronic art pieces,
like, that probably doesn't meanthat much to your audience. But
I did a series of, like, ofmore, like, light and motor or
mechatronic pieces. So that was,like, the wind, that kind of
wind vector, piece. There was,that ocean wave piece and then

(52:58):
this, LED light piece thatworked off of the basically like
this digital ICE core.
So I feel like I have that kindof one range, and then the other
range is trying to take some ofthe data, that we get and then
put it kind of back into more ofa a fixed sculpture or a drawing

(53:21):
of some sort. So, those I guessthere's there's mechatronic
pieces. Like, those have to beinstalled. Like, they're they're
pretty hard to run, and they'realways trying to break. And, you
have to, like, fly to a placeand install them in a special
room and then kind of babysitthem for the show.

Parker Dillmann (53:41):
I I I do like how you said they try to break.
Not that they not just theybreak, but they try to break.

Cy Keener (53:49):
Yep. Yeah. I mean, you're that first the first the
first large scale piece I did,it had 30 separate did you guys
ever heard of the particleparticle dot io? Mhmm. It was
these guys that Yeah.

Stephen Kraig (54:01):
I know. We had them on the podcast.

Cy Keener (54:04):
Oh, okay. Great. Yeah. Zach and Zach maybe or I'm
not sure who yet. But anyway butthey they supported, like, my
first big Arduino piece and itbasically had 30 of their
particle devices in the field,each one of those talking to 2
sensors, a wind speed anddirection sensor.
And then I have 30 of theirparticle devices in the gallery,
each running 2 servos, lights,and I guess that was it. It

(54:25):
feels like there's one othervariable there. But so that's
basically 60 separate Arduinosand a 120 sensors. We lost them.
We lost them.

Parker Dillmann (54:34):
That's all it said. Oh.

Stephen Kraig (54:36):
The Arctic has claimed him.

Parker Dillmann (54:38):
Hello. You're back.

Cy Keener (54:39):
Can you guys hear me? Yep. Okay. I'm sorry. Anyway,
but, yeah, though, this is thisthing just had it had 60
separate Arduino type things.
There are particle devices, ithad a 120 sensors, and then it
on the other side, it had a 120lights and a 120 servos, so
everything was breaking all thetime. Like, there's just no way
that you're gonna get all ofthose things to work, over a 3

(55:04):
month run. So I guess it in art,it feels like 3 months is kind
of like a a reasonable time todo an electronic art piece. And
so so that's really hard. Andand then I think over time then
a lot of a lot of my kind of Idon't wanna call it expertise,

(55:24):
but a lot of my maturity or alot of the effort that I put
into the electric art pieces isactually just trying to make
them reliable.
Like, so you you it's, like,easy to to get a 30 second demo
for YouTube. Like, I don't poston YouTube, but, like, it's easy
to get a 30 second demo ofsomething working, and it's
really hard to get it to runevery every day or 5 days a week

(55:46):
in a gallery for 3 months. Andthen the the approaches that you
use for those two things arepretty different. And so yeah.
So I think that that's a wholeaspect of my art, is really that
kind of using lights and motorsto enact things.
And then I think the other sideof my art is is the kind of

(56:07):
taking that historic data andthen trying to present it in a
static way, but in another waythat's kinda compelling. So I
did I had a, show at theNational Academy of Sciences,
which is this place inWashington, DC, and then I'm
gonna be kinda redoing a bunchof that work for a show in
Michigan, that'll be next year.But that had this these kind of
beautiful, sculptures where eachone had 7 there are there are 10

(56:34):
different of these kind of,like, custom machine trays, that
hung from the wall. They'reabout 16 inches by 8 feet tall,
and each one of those kind ofaluminum trays had 7 different,
time instances of this digitalice core. So they were, like,
very kind of carefully printedcolors on acrylic, and then it
had the actual thermistor, like,data printed and the RGB data

(57:01):
printed.
And then those were at this kindof 45 degree angle so that as
you moved around it, you couldkinda see light shift through
it. So, so that's not a livedata piece. Like, some of my
work is more in this live dataside, and then that's a little
bit

Stephen Kraig (57:15):
more of

Cy Keener (57:15):
a in some ways, it's just me trying to be more
practical, like, havingsomething that you can ship and
and have somebody hang on thewall and that actually sticks
around and isn't just in art,they have this word called
conservation, which is, like,the word for like, people think
of conservation as, like,someone retouching a

(57:36):
Michelangelo painting on the,like, Sistine Chapel, but it
also exists for, electronic artwhere they're basically, like,
this this is a beautifulelectronic art piece, but, like,
how are we gonna show this 20years from now? Like, are we
just gonna abandon the entire,like, 20 year old technology and
remake it with the sameintentions? Or are we gonna try

(57:56):
to, like, go around and buy upTVs from the eighties in order
to, like, show this piece, like,5 years from now or there's this
whole kind of conversation wherewe think, you know, we we
encounter, like, end of life andand all of these other things as
engineers, but the theassumption is, like, in consumer
electronics, you just shipanother one. And then in art,
you have this kind of addedcomplication that something is,

(58:17):
like, an original or it's, like,has this value that's slightly
outside of just the the PCB thatit's printed on or the code that
it's running.

Parker Dillmann (58:26):
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Consumer electronics is
you can if you can get the 5year mark, you're doing really
good. Whereas, like, art, willit work a 1000 years from now?

Cy Keener (58:39):
Yeah. It's a big ask. It's a big ask. Yeah. So I think
I I kinda go back and forth.
I have these these kind of,like, live data pieces, and then
I'll also do things. I had thislarge series that where we got
to tag a bunch of icebergs withGPS trackers, and then I did
photogrammetry or I kind of didthis, like, documentation of the

(59:00):
icebergs, and then we use thatto make these things that we
called iceberg portraits. So itwas it was trying to really kind
of show, like, with this onedrawing, we could show the scale
of the iceberg. We could showthe path that it took, through a
bay bay in Greenland, and wecould, we even kinda spied on it
with satellites, and we couldshow how it changed over time

(59:20):
and how the iceberg should,like, change shape. So it's
really just trying to kind of,like, tell this full story of
the of the iceberg as it's,moving through time and space.
So I think that those are, yeah,those are it's a good gamut of
of examples of differentprojects that I've done on the
art side.

Stephen Kraig (59:38):
I guess I guess one other quick thing, in terms
of abstracting the data and howyou present it to the, someone
in the gallery or someonelooking at your piece, do you
prefer to, get get their eyeson, I guess, on the as close to
the raw data as possible or doyou try to put something in

(01:00:01):
between, the data and whatthey're looking at?

Cy Keener (01:00:06):
Yeah. It's a really great question, and I think my
my answer we it's kinda like theenclosure question where it
remains aspirational. But Ithink, in art, it should it
should if the piece issuccessful, it will grab you the
first time that you see it andthat you are curious about it
and you wanna know more aboutit. And then if the art is good,

(01:00:28):
then the more you know about it,the more that you like it,
basically. Like, the more thatit reveals about the kind of
thought that went into it or thedifficulty of the things that
the artist went through tocreate it.
And so I think, I think anotheranother angle or just kinda side
to the question you're asking isjust how much are you like,
there's this word didactic,which is kind of a weird word.

(01:00:51):
But it's just sort of, like, howmuch are you kind of trying to
put the information like, bevery clear about what the
information is, which is howmuch are you trying to, like,
let the audience sort ofexperience it and know that
there's something there, butalso kinda create their own
experience. So it's almost likein a like in a rock and roll
song or something where youlike, sometimes it's good when

(01:01:13):
you find out what the what theartist actually meant, but
sometimes you're like, oh, thatthat kinda ruined that song for
me. So I think that the, I thinkthat good art should sort of
stand on its own even if youdon't, if you don't know exactly
what it's about. But that thenthe kind of the more you learn,

(01:01:33):
then the more it's sort of likea puzzle that's sort of
unfolding, and and you're kindof the more you learn about it,
then the more kind of interestedin you are.
So that's that's what I'm aimingfor. I think that that's, you
know, the thing like, if you putpretty lights or, like, moving
lights in a room, like, it it'skind of fun and kind of

(01:01:53):
exciting, but I also want it tobe something where they the
person comes away with with somesort of some sort of meaning. I
guess, like in art, we kind ofshoot for some sort of meaning.
Like, it's not any that's one ofthe things that sort of
differentiates it from otherendeavors where where you
ideally, you would come awaysort of seeing your world just a

(01:02:14):
little bit differently, thanwhen you saw that previous
thing. You'd think, oh, like, Inever really thought about
icebergs and how they wouldactually, like, move through
space and roll and change shapeand do all this stuff, or I
never really thought about thatthe ice on the Arctic Ocean
could be 6 feet thick.
And then if I can stand next tothat, then, that's kind of a
powerful experience.

Parker Dillmann (01:02:33):
So Do we want to wrap up? I think so. Cool.
Cool. So Sai, thank you so muchfor sharing your journey so far
and your projects and and yourart.
Where can people find more aboutyour art installations and what
you're currently working on?

Cy Keener (01:02:52):
Yeah. I maintain a a portfolio website. It's it's
what we call it. It's just myfull name.com. So cykeener.com.
I'm sure you guys can throw alink to that. Yeah. And then I
guess my my information isfairly public. I'm a a professor
at the University of Maryland,so my my information is just

(01:03:12):
kinda out there. If feel free toshoot an email or reach out with
any questions.
Yeah. But I I post some videoand a lot of images on that
portfolio website. So, it'd be afun fun thing to check out after
the podcast.

Parker Dillmann (01:03:27):
Again, thank you so much, Sai. It's been a
it's been very interestinggetting your perspective on on,
especially that podcast to getthe experience. So

Cy Keener (01:03:45):
Yeah. I've been I've been lucky to be able to do
that, but I I think it's becauseof our Arduino community and and
your company and and other folksthat, have been super generous
with just, sharing informationand helping make that possible.
So yeah. So thanks for having meon. Appreciate it.

Parker Dillmann (01:04:03):
For listening to circuit break from MacroFab,
we are your hosts, ParkerDillman.

Stephen Kraig (01:04:08):
And Steve and Craig. Later, everyone. Take it
easy.

Parker Dillmann (01:04:12):
Breaker for downloading our podcast. Tell
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