July 9, 2025 • 23 mins
Trees, Prairies, Conservation, and the Farm
with the Savanna Institute
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Todd Gleason (00:00):
This is the closing market report from
(00:01):
Illinois Public Media. I'mUniversity of Illinois
Extension's Todd Gleason out ofthe office for the afternoon, so
no update of the commoditymarkets. However, today we'll
talk with a couple of folks fromthe Savannah Institute. It was
inspired by the oak savannasnative to our region. The
Savannah Institute supports thegrowth of more diverse perennial
(00:24):
farming in the UpperMississippian Great Lakes
watersheds and it helps tocreate opportunities, it says,
for farmers integrating treeswith crops and pastures to
diversify farm incomes andlandscapes.
We're joined today by NateLawrence. He's an Ecosystem
scientist and MJ Oviatt, she'san Illinois agroforestry
(00:47):
educator. Thank you both forbeing with us. MJ, can you tell
me a little bit about yourself,please?
MJ Oviatt (00:53):
I'm MJ Oviatt. I'm the Illinois agroforestry
educator at the SavannahInstitute. And my role is
essentially coming up with andthen executing educational
events and workshops at ourdemonstration farms in Illinois.
And then I also do generaloutreach for Savannah Institute.
(01:14):
I go to a lot of conferences.
I think a lot of people haveprobably met me if they've ever
interacted with SavannahInstitute in Illinois. And then
I do some work with our partnerswith the Illinois Sustainable Ag
Partnership, ISAP. And then I dosome work with the nutrient loss
reduction strategy.
Todd Gleason (01:32):
Nate Lawrence here with us as well. You are with
the Savannah Institute but in adifferent role. Can you tell me
about that and where you'relocated?
Nate Lawrence (01:41):
I am Nate Lawrence, ecosystem scientist at
the Savannah Institute. I haveto call out that I was born and
raised in Illinois before I saythat I currently live in in
Madison, Wisconsin. So I'moriginally from Monticello, went
to University of Illinois, gotan in res degree, which is
something MJ and I have incommon. And then my role here is
(02:02):
focused on kind of theenvironmental half of
agroforestry. And a lot of thatfocuses on finding new revenue
streams for farmers to implementagroforestry.
And then based on someimprovement that we made to the
environment, bringing in newrevenue to make these practices,
profitable and makeenvironmental improvements
(02:22):
profitable rather than costly.
Todd Gleason (02:24):
You know, on the website for the Savannah
Institute, it says that it worksto cultivate resilience in
Midwestern agriculture, and isinspired by the oak savannas
native to the region. Can youtell me a bit more about that,
Nate, and what it really meansin the Upper Mississippi and
Great Lakes watersheds?
Nate Lawrence (02:45):
Yeah. I think a couple terms are thrown around
there. Resilience is somethingwe like to talk about because we
know that our weather patternsare changing and we need to
adapt farming systems so they'reready for what's coming next.
And I think the the inspirationfrom the Oak Savannah, we take
that sort of defined verybroadly. And so Savannah defined
(03:07):
as trees and, something growingunder the trees in a native
ecosystem that would be agrassland.
But it's kind of this twostoried eco two two tiered
ecosystem with an overstory, acanopy as well as an understory.
And so a lot of agroforestrypractices loosely mimic that
(03:30):
that same approach. And so we'llhave trees that are doing
something useful for farms,whether that's producing a tree
crop or blocking wind orproviding some conservation
value. And then around orunderneath the trees, we have,
vegetation that's being managedfor something else. So crops or
(03:52):
livestock or hay or somethinglike that.
Todd Gleason (03:56):
MJ, you you mentioned that we would talk
about some of the things youhave coming up, and I'll get to
that. But where are thedemonstration farms and plots
around the Midwest, particularlyin Illinois, that you might be
able to point us to that theSavannah Institute helps to
operate?
MJ Oviatt (04:15):
In Illinois, we have three demonstration farms. The
first one I'll talk about isactually one that we lease from
the University of Illinois. Thatis at the 4 H Memorial Camp
right next to Allerton Park inMonticello. We have a 35 acre
alley cropping demonstrationfarm there, and people can come
out and see that at any of ourpublic events. Those are all
(04:38):
posted on our website.
That site is timber alleycropping with a corn and bean
rotation in the alleys. Sosomething that we think would
be, very applicable for otherfarmers in the Central Illinois
area who do corn and beanrotations. Nearby in Urbana, we
have the largest agroforestrydemonstration site in The US
(05:00):
right now. It's right outside oftown. You may have passed it if
you live in the area.
It's 120 acres and thatshowcases similar alley cropping
to our site in Monticello withtimber and then corn and beans
in the alleyways in between thetimber rows. And then on the
other half of the farm, we havesome more unique, alley cropping
(05:25):
going on with hazelnuts andprairie strips and bunch of
interesting fruit that we arereally excited about at Savannah
Institute, things likeelderberry, black currant, and
even Japanese walnut. And thensurrounding that entire farm,
have 11 different kinds ofwindbreaks, which I think we're
(05:46):
gonna talk about a lot today.And those two are in Central
Illinois, but then we also haveone more demonstration farm up
in Ogle County near the borderwith Wisconsin, in Oregon,
Illinois, that farm's calledFields Restored. That's our
oldest demonstration farm.
We have a silvopasture byaddition experiment going on
(06:10):
there with some cattle. And thenwe also have a riparian buffer
that I just saw that yesterdaywalking around. It sounds so
amazing. You can hear all of thebugs coming back and all the
birds. And then there's alsosome alley cropping being done
on that site as well.
Starting next year, we're goingto be launching a Illinois
(06:34):
partner farm network. That'swhere we're going to formally
incorporate people that aredoing agroforestry on their own
farms into a network like we'redoing in Wisconsin this year.
Todd Gleason (06:45):
Nate, the farms in Illinois sound to me as if they
are woodland adjacent. Sothey're more into the the
prairie parts of Illinois,particularly because they are in
those areas of Illinois thatthat are not forested. You'd
have to be much further to thesouth. Can you tell me how you
(07:08):
think that producers, landownerson the prairie soils, in the
Grand Prairie, can implementsome of the things that the
Savannah Institute is looking atand the kind of research that
you're doing with these.
Nate Lawrence (07:23):
Right. A lot of Illinois is not historically,
woodland. Savannahs are a littlebit more common than forests at
least in some parts of thestate. But I think what we're
implementing is trees for awhole bunch of different
outcomes. Not all of that isgoing to be mimicking exactly
what was there two hundred yearsago per se.
(07:46):
So again, I'm going to bringback a topic that I think we'll
talk about a little bit later,but there is a historical
precedent for windbreaks acrossmuch of the Corn Belt including
Central Illinois areas that wedon't necessarily think of as
being forested. And that was anagroforestry practice that was a
(08:07):
hundred years ago planted uppretty widely and today is
probably declining in acreage.But it's not sort of unheard of.
And then there's also whole,that's kind of an edge of field
practice. Of course, windbreak.
There are a lot of differentways that trees could help be a
solution even where thereweren't necessarily trees two
(08:29):
hundred years ago. So treesproviding a different crop that
can diversify farm income, forinstance, because we're
harvesting something from thetree like a fruit or a nut or
even a timber product.
Todd Gleason (08:43):
Let's pick up with the windbreaks for just just a
moment. Windbreaks were planted,on farms across the whole of the
Corn Belt, in response to, thedust storms of the nineteen
thirties as a conservationeffort. Many of those have been
taken out in the last fourdecades. Can you tell me about
(09:08):
windbreaks and the purpose thatthey might serve and how you
think if there is a differentkind of windbreak or different
species that might serveproducers and landowners better
in the state?
Nate Lawrence (09:21):
Yeah. That's an excellent question. So we're on
the verge of launching a fiveyear project with research
collaborators at University ofIllinois at Iowa State that's
going to be examiningwindbreaks. And I think
examining them in some some newnew angles that we haven't
necessarily thought of before.So originally planted in
(09:42):
response to the dust bowl, ofcourse, as we learned recently,
dust storms might not be a thingof the past.
So that original purpose mightnot be so so out of place in
this century. But I thinkwindbreaks also could do a lot
of things that they haven'treally been planted for or
(10:04):
thought of before. So forexample, blocking some intense
storms from causing crop damage.Seem to be headed in the
direction of more intense stormsin the future. So wind related
crop damage is a pretty bigissue.
We think that wind breaks canactually play a role in reducing
(10:24):
nutrient runoff, which we cantalk more about, providing
wildlife habitat. But I thinkthe key here will be to figure
out how, where and when we canoptimize windbreaks so that they
work for a lot of differentstakeholders including perhaps
most importantly the farmers whohave the windbreaks on their
(10:45):
property. And so planting theright species, planting these
trees in the right locations sothat they're not in the way so
that we're minimizing negativeimpacts on cropland, adjacent
cropland for instance, whilemaximizing the positive impacts
on things like water qualityimprovement, on protecting crops
(11:05):
from extreme wind, on providingwildlife habitat. We can go down
the list. But I think in thethirties, we probably planted
windbreaks in the best way thatwe knew how.
And I think we can now examinethe something like 10,000 acres
of windbreaks across thisIllinois and Iowa target region.
(11:26):
Really dive into the yield mapsand a bunch of different,
rigorous science that we'rebringing to the table to try to
figure out what is the optimalwindbreak. How does that
actually work out and where doesit fit on our modern landscapes?
Todd Gleason (11:43):
MJ, there are a series of different kinds of
agroforestry practices that canbe put into place. Can you tell
us about some of them that theSavannah Institute has
implemented and other than thewindbreaks we've talked about,
and how it is that you aretrying to showcase them?
MJ Oviatt (12:03):
Windbreaks are the trees that border farms. They're
an edge of field practice. Butanother edge of field practice
that we promote a lot of isriparian buffers, particularly
riparian forest buffers. So ariparian area is, you know,
anywhere that has water flowingthrough it, either always or
(12:25):
intermittently being a stream,lake, pond, whatever, planting
woody species around that issomething that we really care
about and wanna see. And that isa USDA defined practice.
Alley cropping, I also mentionedearlier that, is where you're
planting tree rows, inside yourfield. So it's not just on the
(12:49):
edges of your farm, but alsowithin, your farm landscape. And
a lot of that can look like anut crop that you're harvesting
the nuts from, be it walnut orchestnut, and then you're
growing wheat or corn or beansor hay in between those trees.
And alley cropping I think isreally interesting and we're
(13:12):
doing a lot of research on thatat the Band Institute to see how
the trees and then theunderstory crops can really
compliment each other. And thenI also mentioned silvopasture,
that's essentially where you'regrazing an animal but instead of
just having it be an open field,it looks more like a really
(13:33):
lovely park.
So, making more of the savannahlandscape, planting trees into
that pasture, both for save forthe animal, protection for the
animal, and then alsopotentially tree fodder that you
get from the trees. So you'refeeding things from the tree to
your animals. And then forestfarming is the last practice.
(13:53):
And this one, don't talk aboutas much in Illinois where you
already have a forest canopy,maybe, and it's not a high
quality forest, or maybe youhave a lot of invasive species
in your understory, you canclear out those invasives and
use the understory to farmthings that grow well in shade.
(14:16):
So a lot of that looks likemedicinals like ginseng or
goldenseal or growing log grownmushrooms, which have a really
high price point, things likeshiitake.
And that is where you alreadyhave a forest stand. And these
are all of the conservationpractice standards from the NRCS
(14:36):
that the National AgroforestryCenter views as our five main
agroforestry systems.Agroforestry is more of a
concept. It's incorporatingtrees and shrubs into your farm
for a variety of purposes. Sooftentimes we see farmers using
(14:57):
these practices in differentways or doing them maybe not by
the book, but essentially, ifyou're incorporating a tree and
you're using that tree for thegood of your farm, that's
agroforestry.
Todd Gleason (15:10):
And that we've talked a little bit about the
impact of some of thesepractices on the farm wind
erosion, relatively speaking.But what impact might they have
on water quality?
Nate Lawrence (15:25):
Yeah. That's a great question. So all
agroforestry systems entail somesome percentage of the landscape
being managed with perennial.I'm going to pull out a keynote
from my graduate research. Andthe graduate research was
looking at wet spots on farms.
(15:45):
And we found that the spots thatwere worst for annual crop
production also tended to beworse for environmental outcomes
including nutrient loss. And soI think this probably is general
izable to a lot of marginalsteeply sloping too wet, too dry
acres. Is that those acres wherethe crops don't do well leave a
(16:07):
lot of nutrients and soilexposed for loss including to
surface waters and groundwater.And so I think there's an
opportunity for perennialpractices, different crops, some
conservation practices,different management techniques
to be implemented on some ofthese acres, hold on to the
(16:31):
nutrients all the way throughthe year, keep soil covered
throughout the year, filter outrunoff from adjacent fields. And
I think that across a broadsuite of agroforestry practices,
if we manage them well, weshould be able to deliver pretty
impressive reductions innutrient loss, both surface
(16:53):
runoff and groundwater leaching.
Todd Gleason (16:56):
Can you tell us about some of the ongoing
research you're doing, Nate?
Nate Lawrence (17:00):
Yeah. I have a few different projects right now
that all focus on trees and soilhealth, water quality, and then
biodiversity. And in this case,I mean birds. So wildlife, but
really focused on birds. Thewater quality work that I have,
projects that I have currentlygoing are related to nutrient
(17:23):
leaching.
So we install instruments calledlysimeters in the ground in a
whole bunch of differentagroforestry systems, different
management practices, kind of awhole breadth that you heard
from MJ about earlier. And thenwe see how nutrient leaching, so
the downward transport ofnutrients when, the surface soil
(17:45):
is is saturated or reaches fieldcapacity after a big rain and
then you have the water movesdown into groundwater or into
shallow, in much of Illinoiswould probably move into a tile.
We can actually put theselysimeters in and then quantify
how many nutrients are areleaching down. And this is the
(18:06):
primary way that nitrogen endsup in our groundwater and
surface water. So we have,several of the demonstration
sites that MJ has already talkedabout.
We've recovered thoselysimeters. Almost all of them
are analyzed. They look reallygood. It appears that across a
broad suite of agroforestrypractices, we're reducing
(18:27):
nutrient leaching compared toadjacent conventionally managed
cropland. And so we will befinishing up that analysis soon,
but the preliminary results dosupport that perennial
management is pretty effectiveat addressing some of these
concerns.
Todd Gleason (18:44):
You know, for many farmers, adoption of these kinds
of conservation practices comesdown down to whether they're
really economically viable. Whatare the economic considerations
surrounding agroforestry?
Nate Lawrence (18:59):
So agroforestry entails the potential to add
more revenue streams to the farmlandscape. So a lot of farms are
relying on a couple productsthat they're selling. And if we
bring in the right trees, wecould increase the number of
ways that farmers are accessingmarkets. So that could be
(19:20):
through specialty crops, fruitsand nuts. It could be timber
production.
It could even be bioenergy orbiomass production. And then I
think there's another untappedopportunity in some of the
ecosystem service incentivesthat exist. So if trees are
improving water quality, can weturn that water quality
(19:42):
improvement into additional,revenue, additional economic
opportunities for farmers tohelp break down some of these
barriers? So the practices thatdeliver for the public good in
the case of water qualityimprovement can also deliver for
farmers and make kind of makethe difference, the economic
(20:03):
difference for a farmer who'slooking, can I plant this
practice? What's it going to dofor my bottom line?
Can we bring in, additionalrevenue streams, whether that's
products from the trees orpotentially ecosystem, service
incentives like water quality,water quality improvement
benefits? And can we use that tohelp kind of make the full case
(20:26):
for, agroforestry?
Todd Gleason (20:28):
We began, Nate, our conversation by talking
about windbreaks, the Dust Bowljust a bit. And I know you have,
a project called the Corn BeltWindbreak Project. Can you tell
me about it and how people mightbe able to get involved?
Nate Lawrence (20:45):
Right. We are launching a five year, research
project in Illinois and Iowa.And step one of that research
project is going to be to findevery suitable windbreak or
shelter belt across our targetregion and invite producers to
be part of the network. And thatnetwork is going to guide the
(21:07):
research questions that we ask.So we're going to be asking
farmers what do and what don'tyou like about windbreaks.
Don't give us the sugar coatedanswer. We really want to know
the truth. And then we can helpfill in some of the knowledge
gaps that might exist. We'realso then going to be relying on
(21:28):
that farmer network for some ofthe research sites that we do
our work on. We'll have stipendpayments for any producer that's
involved in the project in anycapacity.
And we're going to be, one thingwe'll be looking for a lot of
will actually be yield mapsaround windbreaks. So farmers
are pretty familiar often withthe yield reduction in the rows
(21:51):
right next to trees. You don'thave to have a PhD to see that
corn and soybeans going rightnext to trees don't typically do
very well. But the full yieldimpact of that windbreak would
include the area that'sprotected from extreme wind. And
that extends something likeeight to 10 times the height of
the trees into the adjacentfields.
(22:13):
It's much harder to eyeball whatis the yield impact eight to 10
times into the adjacent, 10times the height, 800 feet into
the adjacent field. And it's notreally something we can eyeball.
So, that's one type of datawe'll be looking for. And again,
all of this will be compensated.The farmers, any time or data
(22:33):
that we're asking them for willbe compensated for.
And they'll be the primaryaudience for all of the findings
of the research project. So I Ireally think of the farmer
network that we're puttingtogether as the audience and and
stakeholder number one for allof the research that we're
doing.
Todd Gleason (22:52):
We've been talking with Nate Lawrence and MJ
Oviatt, both of the SavannahInstitute online at
savannahinstitute.org duringthis edition of the closing
market report that came to youfrom Illinois Public Media. It's
public radio for the farmingworld. I'm extension's Todd
Gleeson.
This is the closing market report from
(00:01):
Illinois Public Media. I'mUniversity of Illinois
Extension's Todd Gleason out ofthe office for the afternoon, so
no update of the commoditymarkets. However, today we'll
talk with a couple of folks fromthe Savannah Institute. It was
inspired by the oak savannasnative to our region. The
Savannah Institute supports thegrowth of more diverse perennial
(00:24):
farming in the UpperMississippian Great Lakes
watersheds and it helps tocreate opportunities, it says,
for farmers integrating treeswith crops and pastures to
diversify farm incomes andlandscapes.
We're joined today by NateLawrence. He's an Ecosystem
scientist and MJ Oviatt, she'san Illinois agroforestry
(00:47):
educator. Thank you both forbeing with us. MJ, can you tell
me a little bit about yourself,please?
MJ Oviatt (00:53):
I'm MJ Oviatt. I'm the Illinois agroforestry
educator at the SavannahInstitute. And my role is
essentially coming up with andthen executing educational
events and workshops at ourdemonstration farms in Illinois.
And then I also do generaloutreach for Savannah Institute.
(01:14):
I go to a lot of conferences.
I think a lot of people haveprobably met me if they've ever
interacted with SavannahInstitute in Illinois. And then
I do some work with our partnerswith the Illinois Sustainable Ag
Partnership, ISAP. And then I dosome work with the nutrient loss
reduction strategy.
Todd Gleason (01:32):
Nate Lawrence here with us as well. You are with
the Savannah Institute but in adifferent role. Can you tell me
about that and where you'relocated?
Nate Lawrence (01:41):
I am Nate Lawrence, ecosystem scientist at
the Savannah Institute. I haveto call out that I was born and
raised in Illinois before I saythat I currently live in in
Madison, Wisconsin. So I'moriginally from Monticello, went
to University of Illinois, gotan in res degree, which is
something MJ and I have incommon. And then my role here is
(02:02):
focused on kind of theenvironmental half of
agroforestry. And a lot of thatfocuses on finding new revenue
streams for farmers to implementagroforestry.
And then based on someimprovement that we made to the
environment, bringing in newrevenue to make these practices,
profitable and makeenvironmental improvements
(02:22):
profitable rather than costly.
Todd Gleason (02:24):
You know, on the website for the Savannah
Institute, it says that it worksto cultivate resilience in
Midwestern agriculture, and isinspired by the oak savannas
native to the region. Can youtell me a bit more about that,
Nate, and what it really meansin the Upper Mississippi and
Great Lakes watersheds?
Nate Lawrence (02:45):
Yeah. I think a couple terms are thrown around
there. Resilience is somethingwe like to talk about because we
know that our weather patternsare changing and we need to
adapt farming systems so they'reready for what's coming next.
And I think the the inspirationfrom the Oak Savannah, we take
that sort of defined verybroadly. And so Savannah defined
(03:07):
as trees and, something growingunder the trees in a native
ecosystem that would be agrassland.
But it's kind of this twostoried eco two two tiered
ecosystem with an overstory, acanopy as well as an understory.
And so a lot of agroforestrypractices loosely mimic that
(03:30):
that same approach. And so we'llhave trees that are doing
something useful for farms,whether that's producing a tree
crop or blocking wind orproviding some conservation
value. And then around orunderneath the trees, we have,
vegetation that's being managedfor something else. So crops or
(03:52):
livestock or hay or somethinglike that.
Todd Gleason (03:56):
MJ, you you mentioned that we would talk
about some of the things youhave coming up, and I'll get to
that. But where are thedemonstration farms and plots
around the Midwest, particularlyin Illinois, that you might be
able to point us to that theSavannah Institute helps to
operate?
MJ Oviatt (04:15):
In Illinois, we have three demonstration farms. The
first one I'll talk about isactually one that we lease from
the University of Illinois. Thatis at the 4 H Memorial Camp
right next to Allerton Park inMonticello. We have a 35 acre
alley cropping demonstrationfarm there, and people can come
out and see that at any of ourpublic events. Those are all
(04:38):
posted on our website.
That site is timber alleycropping with a corn and bean
rotation in the alleys. Sosomething that we think would
be, very applicable for otherfarmers in the Central Illinois
area who do corn and beanrotations. Nearby in Urbana, we
have the largest agroforestrydemonstration site in The US
(05:00):
right now. It's right outside oftown. You may have passed it if
you live in the area.
It's 120 acres and thatshowcases similar alley cropping
to our site in Monticello withtimber and then corn and beans
in the alleyways in between thetimber rows. And then on the
other half of the farm, we havesome more unique, alley cropping
(05:25):
going on with hazelnuts andprairie strips and bunch of
interesting fruit that we arereally excited about at Savannah
Institute, things likeelderberry, black currant, and
even Japanese walnut. And thensurrounding that entire farm,
have 11 different kinds ofwindbreaks, which I think we're
(05:46):
gonna talk about a lot today.And those two are in Central
Illinois, but then we also haveone more demonstration farm up
in Ogle County near the borderwith Wisconsin, in Oregon,
Illinois, that farm's calledFields Restored. That's our
oldest demonstration farm.
We have a silvopasture byaddition experiment going on
(06:10):
there with some cattle. And thenwe also have a riparian buffer
that I just saw that yesterdaywalking around. It sounds so
amazing. You can hear all of thebugs coming back and all the
birds. And then there's alsosome alley cropping being done
on that site as well.
Starting next year, we're goingto be launching a Illinois
(06:34):
partner farm network. That'swhere we're going to formally
incorporate people that aredoing agroforestry on their own
farms into a network like we'redoing in Wisconsin this year.
Todd Gleason (06:45):
Nate, the farms in Illinois sound to me as if they
are woodland adjacent. Sothey're more into the the
prairie parts of Illinois,particularly because they are in
those areas of Illinois thatthat are not forested. You'd
have to be much further to thesouth. Can you tell me how you
(07:08):
think that producers, landownerson the prairie soils, in the
Grand Prairie, can implementsome of the things that the
Savannah Institute is looking atand the kind of research that
you're doing with these.
Nate Lawrence (07:23):
Right. A lot of Illinois is not historically,
woodland. Savannahs are a littlebit more common than forests at
least in some parts of thestate. But I think what we're
implementing is trees for awhole bunch of different
outcomes. Not all of that isgoing to be mimicking exactly
what was there two hundred yearsago per se.
(07:46):
So again, I'm going to bringback a topic that I think we'll
talk about a little bit later,but there is a historical
precedent for windbreaks acrossmuch of the Corn Belt including
Central Illinois areas that wedon't necessarily think of as
being forested. And that was anagroforestry practice that was a
(08:07):
hundred years ago planted uppretty widely and today is
probably declining in acreage.But it's not sort of unheard of.
And then there's also whole,that's kind of an edge of field
practice. Of course, windbreak.
There are a lot of differentways that trees could help be a
solution even where thereweren't necessarily trees two
(08:29):
hundred years ago. So treesproviding a different crop that
can diversify farm income, forinstance, because we're
harvesting something from thetree like a fruit or a nut or
even a timber product.
Todd Gleason (08:43):
Let's pick up with the windbreaks for just just a
moment. Windbreaks were planted,on farms across the whole of the
Corn Belt, in response to, thedust storms of the nineteen
thirties as a conservationeffort. Many of those have been
taken out in the last fourdecades. Can you tell me about
(09:08):
windbreaks and the purpose thatthey might serve and how you
think if there is a differentkind of windbreak or different
species that might serveproducers and landowners better
in the state?
Nate Lawrence (09:21):
Yeah. That's an excellent question. So we're on
the verge of launching a fiveyear project with research
collaborators at University ofIllinois at Iowa State that's
going to be examiningwindbreaks. And I think
examining them in some some newnew angles that we haven't
necessarily thought of before.So originally planted in
(09:42):
response to the dust bowl, ofcourse, as we learned recently,
dust storms might not be a thingof the past.
So that original purpose mightnot be so so out of place in
this century. But I thinkwindbreaks also could do a lot
of things that they haven'treally been planted for or
(10:04):
thought of before. So forexample, blocking some intense
storms from causing crop damage.Seem to be headed in the
direction of more intense stormsin the future. So wind related
crop damage is a pretty bigissue.
We think that wind breaks canactually play a role in reducing
(10:24):
nutrient runoff, which we cantalk more about, providing
wildlife habitat. But I thinkthe key here will be to figure
out how, where and when we canoptimize windbreaks so that they
work for a lot of differentstakeholders including perhaps
most importantly the farmers whohave the windbreaks on their
(10:45):
property. And so planting theright species, planting these
trees in the right locations sothat they're not in the way so
that we're minimizing negativeimpacts on cropland, adjacent
cropland for instance, whilemaximizing the positive impacts
on things like water qualityimprovement, on protecting crops
(11:05):
from extreme wind, on providingwildlife habitat. We can go down
the list. But I think in thethirties, we probably planted
windbreaks in the best way thatwe knew how.
And I think we can now examinethe something like 10,000 acres
of windbreaks across thisIllinois and Iowa target region.
(11:26):
Really dive into the yield mapsand a bunch of different,
rigorous science that we'rebringing to the table to try to
figure out what is the optimalwindbreak. How does that
actually work out and where doesit fit on our modern landscapes?
Todd Gleason (11:43):
MJ, there are a series of different kinds of
agroforestry practices that canbe put into place. Can you tell
us about some of them that theSavannah Institute has
implemented and other than thewindbreaks we've talked about,
and how it is that you aretrying to showcase them?
MJ Oviatt (12:03):
Windbreaks are the trees that border farms. They're
an edge of field practice. Butanother edge of field practice
that we promote a lot of isriparian buffers, particularly
riparian forest buffers. So ariparian area is, you know,
anywhere that has water flowingthrough it, either always or
(12:25):
intermittently being a stream,lake, pond, whatever, planting
woody species around that issomething that we really care
about and wanna see. And that isa USDA defined practice.
Alley cropping, I also mentionedearlier that, is where you're
planting tree rows, inside yourfield. So it's not just on the
(12:49):
edges of your farm, but alsowithin, your farm landscape. And
a lot of that can look like anut crop that you're harvesting
the nuts from, be it walnut orchestnut, and then you're
growing wheat or corn or beansor hay in between those trees.
And alley cropping I think isreally interesting and we're
(13:12):
doing a lot of research on thatat the Band Institute to see how
the trees and then theunderstory crops can really
compliment each other. And thenI also mentioned silvopasture,
that's essentially where you'regrazing an animal but instead of
just having it be an open field,it looks more like a really
(13:33):
lovely park.
So, making more of the savannahlandscape, planting trees into
that pasture, both for save forthe animal, protection for the
animal, and then alsopotentially tree fodder that you
get from the trees. So you'refeeding things from the tree to
your animals. And then forestfarming is the last practice.
(13:53):
And this one, don't talk aboutas much in Illinois where you
already have a forest canopy,maybe, and it's not a high
quality forest, or maybe youhave a lot of invasive species
in your understory, you canclear out those invasives and
use the understory to farmthings that grow well in shade.
(14:16):
So a lot of that looks likemedicinals like ginseng or
goldenseal or growing log grownmushrooms, which have a really
high price point, things likeshiitake.
And that is where you alreadyhave a forest stand. And these
are all of the conservationpractice standards from the NRCS
(14:36):
that the National AgroforestryCenter views as our five main
agroforestry systems.Agroforestry is more of a
concept. It's incorporatingtrees and shrubs into your farm
for a variety of purposes. Sooftentimes we see farmers using
(14:57):
these practices in differentways or doing them maybe not by
the book, but essentially, ifyou're incorporating a tree and
you're using that tree for thegood of your farm, that's
agroforestry.
Todd Gleason (15:10):
And that we've talked a little bit about the
impact of some of thesepractices on the farm wind
erosion, relatively speaking.But what impact might they have
on water quality?
Nate Lawrence (15:25):
Yeah. That's a great question. So all
agroforestry systems entail somesome percentage of the landscape
being managed with perennial.I'm going to pull out a keynote
from my graduate research. Andthe graduate research was
looking at wet spots on farms.
(15:45):
And we found that the spots thatwere worst for annual crop
production also tended to beworse for environmental outcomes
including nutrient loss. And soI think this probably is general
izable to a lot of marginalsteeply sloping too wet, too dry
acres. Is that those acres wherethe crops don't do well leave a
(16:07):
lot of nutrients and soilexposed for loss including to
surface waters and groundwater.And so I think there's an
opportunity for perennialpractices, different crops, some
conservation practices,different management techniques
to be implemented on some ofthese acres, hold on to the
(16:31):
nutrients all the way throughthe year, keep soil covered
throughout the year, filter outrunoff from adjacent fields. And
I think that across a broadsuite of agroforestry practices,
if we manage them well, weshould be able to deliver pretty
impressive reductions innutrient loss, both surface
(16:53):
runoff and groundwater leaching.
Todd Gleason (16:56):
Can you tell us about some of the ongoing
research you're doing, Nate?
Nate Lawrence (17:00):
Yeah. I have a few different projects right now
that all focus on trees and soilhealth, water quality, and then
biodiversity. And in this case,I mean birds. So wildlife, but
really focused on birds. Thewater quality work that I have,
projects that I have currentlygoing are related to nutrient
(17:23):
leaching.
So we install instruments calledlysimeters in the ground in a
whole bunch of differentagroforestry systems, different
management practices, kind of awhole breadth that you heard
from MJ about earlier. And thenwe see how nutrient leaching, so
the downward transport ofnutrients when, the surface soil
(17:45):
is is saturated or reaches fieldcapacity after a big rain and
then you have the water movesdown into groundwater or into
shallow, in much of Illinoiswould probably move into a tile.
We can actually put theselysimeters in and then quantify
how many nutrients are areleaching down. And this is the
(18:06):
primary way that nitrogen endsup in our groundwater and
surface water. So we have,several of the demonstration
sites that MJ has already talkedabout.
We've recovered thoselysimeters. Almost all of them
are analyzed. They look reallygood. It appears that across a
broad suite of agroforestrypractices, we're reducing
(18:27):
nutrient leaching compared toadjacent conventionally managed
cropland. And so we will befinishing up that analysis soon,
but the preliminary results dosupport that perennial
management is pretty effectiveat addressing some of these
concerns.
Todd Gleason (18:44):
You know, for many farmers, adoption of these kinds
of conservation practices comesdown down to whether they're
really economically viable. Whatare the economic considerations
surrounding agroforestry?
Nate Lawrence (18:59):
So agroforestry entails the potential to add
more revenue streams to the farmlandscape. So a lot of farms are
relying on a couple productsthat they're selling. And if we
bring in the right trees, wecould increase the number of
ways that farmers are accessingmarkets. So that could be
(19:20):
through specialty crops, fruitsand nuts. It could be timber
production.
It could even be bioenergy orbiomass production. And then I
think there's another untappedopportunity in some of the
ecosystem service incentivesthat exist. So if trees are
improving water quality, can weturn that water quality
(19:42):
improvement into additional,revenue, additional economic
opportunities for farmers tohelp break down some of these
barriers? So the practices thatdeliver for the public good in
the case of water qualityimprovement can also deliver for
farmers and make kind of makethe difference, the economic
(20:03):
difference for a farmer who'slooking, can I plant this
practice? What's it going to dofor my bottom line?
Can we bring in, additionalrevenue streams, whether that's
products from the trees orpotentially ecosystem, service
incentives like water quality,water quality improvement
benefits? And can we use that tohelp kind of make the full case
(20:26):
for, agroforestry?
Todd Gleason (20:28):
We began, Nate, our conversation by talking
about windbreaks, the Dust Bowljust a bit. And I know you have,
a project called the Corn BeltWindbreak Project. Can you tell
me about it and how people mightbe able to get involved?
Nate Lawrence (20:45):
Right. We are launching a five year, research
project in Illinois and Iowa.And step one of that research
project is going to be to findevery suitable windbreak or
shelter belt across our targetregion and invite producers to
be part of the network. And thatnetwork is going to guide the
(21:07):
research questions that we ask.So we're going to be asking
farmers what do and what don'tyou like about windbreaks.
Don't give us the sugar coatedanswer. We really want to know
the truth. And then we can helpfill in some of the knowledge
gaps that might exist. We'realso then going to be relying on
(21:28):
that farmer network for some ofthe research sites that we do
our work on. We'll have stipendpayments for any producer that's
involved in the project in anycapacity.
And we're going to be, one thingwe'll be looking for a lot of
will actually be yield mapsaround windbreaks. So farmers
are pretty familiar often withthe yield reduction in the rows
(21:51):
right next to trees. You don'thave to have a PhD to see that
corn and soybeans going rightnext to trees don't typically do
very well. But the full yieldimpact of that windbreak would
include the area that'sprotected from extreme wind. And
that extends something likeeight to 10 times the height of
the trees into the adjacentfields.
(22:13):
It's much harder to eyeball whatis the yield impact eight to 10
times into the adjacent, 10times the height, 800 feet into
the adjacent field. And it's notreally something we can eyeball.
So, that's one type of datawe'll be looking for. And again,
all of this will be compensated.The farmers, any time or data
(22:33):
that we're asking them for willbe compensated for.
And they'll be the primaryaudience for all of the findings
of the research project. So I Ireally think of the farmer
network that we're puttingtogether as the audience and and
stakeholder number one for allof the research that we're
doing.
Todd Gleason (22:52):
We've been talking with Nate Lawrence and MJ
Oviatt, both of the SavannahInstitute online at
savannahinstitute.org duringthis edition of the closing
market report that came to youfrom Illinois Public Media. It's
public radio for the farmingworld. I'm extension's Todd
Gleeson.
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