Issue 596: The Last of Us Ep. 7 "Convergence" Spoiler Review

Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:01):
I could do this.

Speaker 2 (00:06):
Story you want you do.

Speaker 3 (00:37):
Oh, hello there, Internet, Welcome to issue five and ninety
six of Comiccast. I'm Michael Carroll alongside Jong Lee Jong.
Happy anniversary.

Speaker 1 (00:48):
Oh thank you, sir.

Speaker 4 (00:49):
We celebrated it on Monday. A lot of tiredness in
the house due to some regression and whatnot, so you
can record this on Monday, so you know, we're joining
you guys on Tuesday. Sorry we're a little late, but yeah,
we got to enjoy a nice meal together as a family.

(01:09):
We we're going to do it together, just the two
of us, but then she decided she wanted to have
the kids there too, so yeah, it was it was fun.

Speaker 2 (01:18):
That's good. That's good. I'm glad it was fun. Man.

Speaker 3 (01:21):
And again, congratulations, it's it's been a long time, so
happy for both of you and the family.

Speaker 4 (01:27):
Yeah, seven years married, met in two thousand and fourteen, so.

Speaker 1 (01:33):
Yeah, eleven it will be eleven years officially on.

Speaker 4 (01:38):
Depending on when you know, if we started dating or
if we started talking, but at the end of the year,
like the eleven years. October to December is around the timeframe.

Speaker 2 (01:47):
Oh that's awesome, dude, I'm happy for you.

Speaker 1 (01:50):
Thank you.

Speaker 3 (01:51):
Well, I don't have any anniversaries, so I just I'm
just here to talk some Last of Us and some
other news. But first, as always, you can follow us
on social media. I'm at producer Mike nine seven.

Speaker 1 (02:03):
Five and I'm at One Punch and.

Speaker 3 (02:05):
You can rate, review, share, or subscribe to this podcast
and all your favorite podcast platforms.

Speaker 2 (02:09):
Five stars that'd be cool, really appreciate it.

Speaker 3 (02:11):
You can also listen to a version of this podcast
on ESPN ninety seven to five and ninety two to
five Wednesday nights at eight p m. Now, of course,
as I mentioned, we'll talk about Last of Us episode
well season finale spoiler review coming up here shortly. But
we do have one new story to get to, and
we also have some housekeeping in terms of what we're

(02:31):
going to be doing at Comicpalooza, which is happening June
twentieth through the twenty second at the George R.

Speaker 2 (02:38):
Brown Convention Center.

Speaker 3 (02:39):
We have our schedule. It is released. It is out
there for the public to see. If you download the
Comicpalooza app in your app store, or if you just
go to the website Comicpalooza dot com, you can check
out the I think mostly full. I think there's still
some scheduling in terms of panels and things like that,
but for the most part, a lot of stuff is
scheduled us and that means we are set to podcast

(03:04):
live from the show floor the Podcast Pavilion stage on Saturday,
June twenty first, at three p m. It'll be myself,
It'll be Jong, will be joined by Schalise Williams of
Real Movie Junkie and Brad Gilmour of Hall of Fame,
of Reality of Wrestling, of Back to the Future writing

(03:24):
he does everything, man does everything. But that's when we'll
be doing it, who will be doing it with? And
we will also, like I guess we could talk about
the topic too, because it's out there on the website.
We will be ranking the MCU Multiverse film saga. But
the way we're going to do it, and the way
I've been kind of teasing it and explaining it, is

(03:47):
that it's just going to be. It's not like our
individual lists that we're each going to bring up. It's
gonna be one list that we select live on the stage,
and it's going to be in a.

Speaker 2 (03:58):
Like a reverse draft order.

Speaker 3 (03:59):
So ever, selecting first is selecting the I think it's
thirteenth film, and so if they pick Spider Man No
Way Home, it's locked in at thirteen.

Speaker 2 (04:09):
And then we go from there.

Speaker 3 (04:10):
So and it's gonna be a crime now I know.
That's why I kind of hope somebody does that just
so we can yell at them. But uh, that would
be you know, whatever your film selection is for whoever
selecting at that time, that's where it's gonna lock in.
And we'll yell at that person if they've select something dumb,
because I think there's a right answer for the last spot,

(04:31):
but I'm going to reserve that for later on.

Speaker 4 (04:34):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, so we'll we will see, but yeah,
we'll be talking about that and doing that.

Speaker 3 (04:47):
It's a little different than what we've done in the
past with mainly topics and whatnot, so thought it'd be fun.

Speaker 2 (04:51):
Thought it'd be different.

Speaker 4 (04:53):
Yeah, it's uh that we've done these at the open
of the first podcast to open a day and then
we've done one I think maybe one of the last
podcasts to close the day, didn't we right, I.

Speaker 3 (05:08):
Think it was the Moonnight one because we did that
one at like seven o'clock or something like that.

Speaker 4 (05:12):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, and then I think this is
going to be right in the smack dad middle of
the day. So you know, I didn't plan very well
one of the one of those times, and parking is
a it's a lot chaling more challenging than.

Speaker 1 (05:29):
You would realize.

Speaker 4 (05:30):
So I gave myself. I think, like thirty minutes, you
need to give more.

Speaker 2 (05:35):
Yeah, if you're coming in around that time, you need
to give more.

Speaker 1 (05:39):
Yeah.

Speaker 4 (05:39):
It's uh excited, man. We got a usually a panel
as always. I think one year where I found no parking.
You were holding it down the fort for like fifteen
to twenty minutes or something like that, and uh oh yeah,
it was incredibly frustrating. I found parking when we like

(06:01):
when we were starting, So it was, it was, it was,
it was.

Speaker 1 (06:04):
It was a mess.

Speaker 4 (06:05):
But you know, looking forward to this year, Uh, my
favorite things about these things they're getting like swag and
stuff like that. So I'm looking forward to going around
the showroom floor and checking out the swag and checking
out some artists and whatnot.

Speaker 1 (06:20):
So yeah, it's very very exciting times.

Speaker 4 (06:25):
And they pushed it back a month, which you know
helps me because typically these things fall on our wedding
anniversary weekend and uh, I think last year I missed it,
so you know, hopefully get back out there and check
out some cool things, cool offerings from Comic Palooza.

Speaker 3 (06:42):
Yeah, last year's was on your on your anniversary day,
so that's why it was like me, Brad Schalis and
Brian are the bri Fi podcast. So this year it's
it's it's all good, no no holidays, no anniversaries. I
think we're I think we're good for everyone.

Speaker 2 (07:00):
And then yeah, I.

Speaker 3 (07:01):
Remember that that one holding it down because I was
terrified because that was the one where we were talking
Loki and like everybody was there. It was it was
that was the one that had like standing room only.

Speaker 1 (07:14):
Yeah.

Speaker 4 (07:15):
Yeah, but but at the end, I think you you
did a very good job. At the end, we had
a couple of people come up to us and one
of them, one of them interviewed us for one of
their podcasts or YouTube videos or something like that, which
I don't know if we made that or not, but
I don't know. Yah, yeah no, but the discussion was good.
And having all those people out there, you know, looking

(07:36):
at us, you know, it is one of those brightening things.

Speaker 1 (07:39):
But it was. It was good man. It was fun.

Speaker 4 (07:42):
And Loki season one, right, uh, and one of the
first shows out the gate for Disney Plus, and it
was fun times.

Speaker 1 (07:53):
It was fun times.

Speaker 3 (07:54):
It was the first podcast too, because it was that
was the one where we opened at like ten am,
and it was I think twenty twenty one, so that
was the one of the first podcasts. I mean, it
wasn't necessarily post COVID. COVID was still very rampant during
those times, but I mean that was still like the
first Comic Paluza back from twenty twenty.

Speaker 4 (08:15):
So yeah, hopefully, hopefully it don't experience something like that
ever again.

Speaker 3 (08:19):
So yeah, uh, pandemic. I don't want to experience that again. No,
and I don't want to experience another delay.

Speaker 2 (08:30):
I don't know. That's not my best transition anyway.

Speaker 3 (08:32):
We'll talk more about Comic Paluza coming up in the
coming weeks. We have more to discuss about that. But
we got to get into the podcast for today and
the news story of the day, and that it came
out late last week. I think it was maybe because
it was after we recorded. But Avengers Doomsday and Avengers
Secret were Secret Wars, not Secret Wars. Secret Wars has

(08:55):
been delayed both have been delayed seven months each, so
Avenger Doomsday moves from May twenty twenty six to December
twenty twenty six, and then Secret Wars moves from May
twenty twenty seven to December twenty twenty seven. As of now,
the only news I have seen, or the way it's

(09:15):
been talked about is it's to help with production schedules
and you know, just balancing everything in terms of that,
not necessarily for any drastic measures or lo no, what's
gonna happen, It's Secret Wars in trouble or anything like that.
It just seems like it's to help with the production
timelines for both these movies, because I think both of

(09:36):
these movies are pretty big.

Speaker 1 (09:39):
Yeah.

Speaker 4 (09:41):
Also, there's gonna be a this kind of I mean
this deals with Secret Wars. I mean on Doomsday too,
but this kind of who moves Dune?

Speaker 3 (09:53):
Yeah, yeah, that's the So right now, Avengers Doomsday and
Doune Messiah are both set to release the same day.
I who blinks on that one? I don't know that
either one blinks. I have to imagine Dune probably blinks,
Warner Brothers probably blinks before Marvel Studios blinks.

Speaker 4 (10:14):
Yeah, I mean, as much as I love the Dune
IP which, by the way, the second movie was amazing,
the Avengers Marvel, even with the amount of bad publicity
they've gotten over the last couple of years, there's still
the superior IP you just you know, and then there's Ice.

Speaker 1 (10:37):
Age, So.

Speaker 4 (10:39):
Yeah, I've different audience. I mean, although, although your kids
might go watch Doomsday too, So yeah, I think Dune
blinks and it's probably gonna get pushed by Oh although
man like, December is a prime month for movies like
I even if if you're Dune like, I don't know

(11:01):
if you even push it back a couple of weeks
if that's going to even do anything, because I think
Doomsday is probably going to have some staying power if
you're doing where do you push it to? January is
not really a movie released month February like what February
makes sense? But it's either stay pat at December eighteenth

(11:24):
move it up, which I don't see them doing that.
You want, you want to give your marketing and your
post production team the most you know, most time to
work with, So if they don't push it back, I
could see them pushing it to February.

Speaker 1 (11:38):
But yeah, I don't know.

Speaker 3 (11:41):
Yeah, do you move it back to like Thanksgiving week week,
weekend and all that?

Speaker 2 (11:46):
I don't. I don't know that you do.

Speaker 3 (11:49):
And like you said, January is not really a month
for movie going. That's typically a slower time and movies
that really movies that release in that timeframe are movies
like Flight Risk, which is Flight Risk is the movie
with Mark Wahlberg where he plays an assassin that's on
the airplane or whatever, has the terrible accent and all that. Like,

(12:09):
that's that's a movie for January. Dune Messiah feels more
like a March or April type movie to me. So,
but do you hold it off for that long because
then you're talking about financial quarters and all that and
how it affects your other films that are releasing in
that same window. I don't know. But Warner Brothers, who

(12:32):
knows what they're gonna be doing. It's always a crap
shoot with them. My guess would be to move back
to March would make the most sense. But can they
afford to lose Dune Massida because I think Dune Messiah
is gonna be a big movie.

Speaker 2 (12:46):
I don't.

Speaker 3 (12:47):
I don't think there's any question about that not as
big as a Doomsday though.

Speaker 1 (12:52):
Yeah, I just can't.

Speaker 4 (12:54):
I can't fathom both of those movies releasing within weeks
of each other. I'm gonna let alone the same day.
I just can't. And I don't even know if, like
if Marvel was Disney was like you know, we don't care,
or they didn't even I think they had to have
known something big was going to release do in December eighteenth, right, like,

(13:16):
I mean, they're not. If it was the opposite, I
would have been like, well, yeah this David Saslov and
Warner Brothers, I think they're very incompetent, But Marvel Studios
operates a little differently, so I think they probably just
saw it and was like, yeah, we don't care.

Speaker 3 (13:33):
Yeah, yeah, that's what my guess was, we don't care,
We're just moving it. And I also don't think you
can treat it like a Barbenheimer type situation, because I
think both of those movies play to similar audiences and
so you're just kind of eating into it. But I
think with everything going into Doomsday, with old X Men
coming back, with the New Avengers and the Old Avengers

(13:56):
and like all the different factors to that movie, you
just got to stay out of.

Speaker 2 (13:59):
The way of it. You don't you don't want to
release against it.

Speaker 4 (14:02):
Yeah, it's not not a smart decision to go up
against Marvel, especially with the return of Robert Downey Jr.
And they did this whole thing with the chairs and
all the all these people are coming back, new people
are appearing, Pedro Pascal like. It's just it doesn't make
sense to go up against a behemoth like that, even
though you know, I think it's proven that, you know,

(14:25):
Timothy Shalome is a pretty big movie star. I just yeah,
I wouldn't do it. I just wouldn't do it. It's
just playing with fire and would it.

Speaker 2 (14:32):
Wouldn't put it past me that Doom Messiah maybe a
better movie than Doomsday.

Speaker 4 (14:39):
You know, oh for sure, for sure the way that
the second one played out, Yeah, it wouldn't. If I'm
if I'm a betting man, I say Dune is written
better and directed better.

Speaker 3 (14:49):
Yeah, I wouldn't be shocked by that, because I do
think it has the It probably will be the better movie.
But in terms of just popcorn going experience, people are
gonna be one, are gonna want to be there for Doomsday,
and so you just you just have to move out
of the way. The only thing that should release at
that point is well nothing really, like you should just

(15:12):
just move out.

Speaker 2 (15:12):
Of the way.

Speaker 4 (15:13):
Yeah, I mean I would, yeah, clear the clear the
schedule for about eight weeks.

Speaker 2 (15:18):
Right, Yeah, exactly.

Speaker 3 (15:19):
And because I was gonna try and make a comparison
to like this past weekend Memorial Day, because you had
Leelo and Stitch, which plays to the family audience, and
you ad Mission Impossible, which plays to more of the
adult audience. But those are obviously different studios. So Disney's
not gonna release a family movie at the same time
they're releasing their big Marvel Studios film, So it doesn't
really make sense to that. Maybe a DreamWorks film releases

(15:41):
that that week in an animated feature to give people
something different.

Speaker 2 (15:45):
But yeah, if you're more often most.

Speaker 3 (15:49):
Any movie should just move out of the way, And
Doomsday's probably gonna be the only one at the end
of it that's releasing on December eighteenth.

Speaker 4 (15:56):
Yeah, yeah, it's gonna be tough. I bet you they
just bite the bullet and release it in a month after.

Speaker 3 (16:02):
Yeah, yeah, I think you probably have to at that point. Again,
I think Doom Dune is going to be really good though,
so we'll see, but we'll have to wait and see
on that. We'll also have to wait and see on
where the Last of Us Season three goes, because we
had our season two.

Speaker 2 (16:20):
I'm not good at transitions today. This is just bad transitions.

Speaker 3 (16:23):
Today, we're just going to talk about the last of
a spoiler review for the season finale, episode seven, Convergence.
If you haven't watched the season finale, tune away for
the rest of this podcast, because that's all we're talking
about the rest.

Speaker 2 (16:35):
Of the way.

Speaker 1 (16:39):
Spoiler alert, spoiler alert, spoiler alert.

Speaker 3 (16:47):
Jong we ended on a bit of a cliffhanger with
where Ellie and Abby's story ends up in the theater.
I don't mean to start there. I normally want to
get your normal thoughts, but I am just curious, just
right off the bat, where do you What do you

(17:08):
think about them leaving off at that moment? What do
you in terms of how they're splitting this story, Because
now we're seeing the full gauge of oh, they're they're
doing this for season two, it's the Ellie story. Season
three will be the Abby story, and then we'll go
from there. Maybe there's a season.

Speaker 4 (17:26):
Four I mean, it almost seems like there's going to
be a season four, and and the way I think
it was. Kathleen O'Hare did an interview talking about season
three being very just it's gonna be Abby season, and
I don't know why she was the one to kind
of reveal this. Maybe she did one of those you know,

(17:48):
Tom Holland spoiler things, but no, I think the way
this season played out and the way that we haven't
really seen Abby. We've seen her at the beginning to
episodes and then nothing until episode seven, right right, So
the way that this season played out, it only makes
sense to go Because she's such a big part of

(18:10):
the second video game, essentially being half that game, it
may only makes sense to do season three basically flipping
season two and showing us Abby's perspective. And at the
very end of this episode we get Seattle Day one
with Abby walking into safeg Field. Which stadium was that

(18:30):
I can't I didn't pay attention.

Speaker 2 (18:32):
That was the Seahawks stadium, the Lumen Field, I believe it.

Speaker 1 (18:35):
Okay, So yeah, it only makes sense to go that way.

Speaker 4 (18:38):
And yeah, I you know, I have my mixed feelings
about season two, and I think I'm on I would
say I'm on the more positive end versus a lot
of other people. But it has, as you know, goods
and bads of the season. But it makes sense to
go towards the Abbey direction in season three, trying to

(18:59):
you know, maybe humanize her a little bit and trying
to get her perspective and not create this huge WorldWind
of emotions like the e second video game did with
the Abby character with death threats and whatnot. So I
think that's kind of the way that they're gonna spin it,
and it makes sense to go season three and then
finish it with season.

Speaker 1 (19:18):
Four, and.

Speaker 4 (19:21):
I say that's probably where we're gonna leave it. It doesn't
seem like Neil Druckman is eager to even created a
third game. From how he was he had some ideas.
It's just never panned out, and they said they were
never gonna make another game unless it felt right, And
it's just the way that he's speaking in some of
these interviews. It just doesn't look like there's gonna be

(19:42):
a third game. So season four is probably where we're
gonna leave this version of Abby and Ellie.

Speaker 2 (19:49):
Yeah, that's that would be my guess too. I don't.

Speaker 3 (19:51):
I don't see any expansion to the story anytime soon.
I do think it's interesting in the structure, like now
kind of looking back on Oh, this makes sense now,
And I wonder too, if it's just going to be
a better it probably will be just a better viewing experience.
Wants everything's out, like in terms of watching season two

(20:12):
back to back with season three, it might make for
a more interesting experience.

Speaker 2 (20:18):
But I I.

Speaker 3 (20:22):
Like where it kind of falls off, Like it makes
sense to have that stopping point there rather than somewhere else.
The story does just kind of stop, but that's kind
of the point of a cliffhanger. So I don't know,
Like I liked it, and I think I liked season
two overall, maybe more than most, but I thought it
was a overall a good season, And I think I'm

(20:46):
okay with where they left off on the cliffhanger. I
think again, it just makes sense in terms of the
way that story goes in the game.

Speaker 4 (20:54):
Oh for sure, I have no problems with where where
it landed. And you know, knowing that they were going
to split the second game into multiple seasons, I expected
a cliffhanger.

Speaker 1 (21:07):
I didn't know exactly where so.

Speaker 4 (21:08):
This is a few episodes back is where my knowledge
of the game kind of ends. And so I did
see a spoiler about you know, Jesse's death, which is
unfortunate social media, but so that part was a little surprising,
and so I didn't know exactly where they're taking how

(21:31):
the game was going to play out, which you know,
from my perspective, I kind of enjoyed it because, like
I said earlier this year, I'm going to stop, you know,
trying to compare scene by scene from the game to
the to the to the TV show, or we will
bring up like, oh, like this's cool that they followed the.

Speaker 1 (21:48):
Scene, you know, like this, or they changed this thing
and like that.

Speaker 4 (21:51):
But in terms of just critiquing the game as the
show and show as the game, it just makes no
sense because they're different. Medians the show, real runner it
was the show inn and creator are heavily involved in
both both projects, and it almost seems like maybe he
was trying to this this show is kind of another take,

(22:11):
another draft of his story, and so I appreciate both
both medians and stuff like that. So I'm not gonna
sit here and put down one over the other. But yeah,
I think.

Speaker 1 (22:25):
The season as a whole.

Speaker 4 (22:26):
There was a definitely season one was better for me.
The writing was stronger in season one.

Speaker 1 (22:36):
I think the.

Speaker 4 (22:38):
I think the flow of it felt better in season one.
I also hang a lot of my thoughts on season
one on episode three and some of the other episodes
in that in that season. I think either episode five
or six, where that giant bloater comes out, that was
one of my favorite ones too. So I think I
judge just not having watched season one back and just

(23:00):
finishing season two. A lot of my opinions are based
off of some of those episodes in season one, which
I think are superior to the ones in season two.
Although season two had had had its shining moments, I
think the I think season episode six was really strong,
probably the best of the year with the porch scene.

(23:21):
Episode seven wasn't too bad itself. There was another episode
where the Seattle Day one I think was a good one. Yeah,
they came across all those and the the the Smart
clicker or the Smart the Smart infected. It was a
nice to Yeah, the stalker, so you know, I think

(23:41):
it had to. It has this ups and downs, but
I think season two had I think I just think
the writing wasn't as great in seasons like the there
was awkward spots and some of the character the development
seems a little weird. Some of the you know, emotional
displays were little awkward at times when you're like, oh,

(24:01):
this is supposed to be a serious moment, but it
just feels I don't know, it just felt like the
emotions weren't quite there as it was in season one,
and that could be more of a directional thing.

Speaker 1 (24:13):
But you know, I enjoyed season two.

Speaker 4 (24:17):
I wouldn't say, like, you know, sitting here in the
end of May, it's not my favorite show of the year.
I think I think it's a little better than Daredevil
in terms of overall ranking, and I think Daredevil on
a good day would be eight point five. On a
good day, I think I'll probably put it right there
at an eight. I think on an average day, I

(24:40):
think Last of Us probably falls between eight point three
to eight point seven, depending on the episode. So I'm
not saying sitting here saying like this is the worst
show ever on like some you know commentars on social media.
But I enjoyed the season so far. I did come
in with the expectation of it being like amazing, like

(25:01):
a nine point fiver. So I'm in that aspect of it.
I think I'm a little disappointed. But in terms of
just overall quality of show, I think it's a good show,
something that I think people should watch. It's not like
it's on the borderline of must see. But I tend
to say you could probably binge it all in one

(25:22):
sitting after the season, which will obviously we're after the season.
But yeah, that's kind of like my takes on the show.
I do hope that it gets a little better in
season three and four.

Speaker 3 (25:33):
But yeah, I think I'm I'm with you. I think
I have it higher than Daredevil. What about and Or?

Speaker 4 (25:42):
Oh oh, and Or and Or and Adolescents I think
are one and two. I I it's so difficult because
it's so different, right right, it's.

Speaker 1 (25:57):
One.

Speaker 4 (25:57):
I think Star Wars, like both me and you, hold
a very special place in our hearts, and I I
don't know if that should sway us. I do think
and uh, taking that out, I think Adolescence is probably
a better written show and the better acting show. That

(26:20):
thing's gonna win Emmys, yes, yes, like Best Actor, Best
Supporting Actor, Like that thing's that thing's gonna be. That
thing's gonna win Emmys.

Speaker 2 (26:28):
Like gonna make critical stuff too.

Speaker 4 (26:31):
Like Stephen Graham, Jamie Miller, like those the Stephen Graham
and Oliver Owen Cooper the Kid, They're gonna win awards.

Speaker 1 (26:39):
It's it's, it's it's a it's a.

Speaker 4 (26:41):
Very very good Metacritic at the moment has it as
the best show of the year. Uh, sitting at ninety one.
To get a ninety in on Metacritic is very very
hard to do. And and and then like The Pit,
something that we're very very high on, has a seventy
six on Metacritic.

Speaker 2 (26:58):
Six.

Speaker 4 (26:59):
Yeah, it's a little harsh. Yeah, But I think from
a just a from a critical perspective, I think Adolescence
is the number one show of the year, and then
my favorite, and then I think and Or two, And
then from what I've seen so far this year, I

(27:19):
think Pit is three.

Speaker 3 (27:21):
I have it, I have those as my well. I
have also Invincible season three up there in my top
for this year. Adolescents in the Pit are my top
two by far. And Or I'm still not sure if
I slot it behind Invincible or above and Invincible.

Speaker 2 (27:40):
The Last of Us is probably after both of those.

Speaker 3 (27:42):
At this point is where I'm settling on it because
I like the show. I think it's been a phenomenal season,
very good season. Maybe not phenomenal, but very good season.
Did it have an episode like episode three of season one? No,

(28:02):
the closest, like you mentioned, is probably episode six. Is
that probably the best episode of the season?

Speaker 4 (28:09):
You think, I think so, just that the emotional beats
I think.

Speaker 1 (28:16):
I think so.

Speaker 4 (28:16):
I think if it was, I think will like you
just I'm sitting here thinking about it, and I'm like,
the port scene is the one that's most resounding. I
do think that the if without the port scene doesn't
make it the best episode of the year. I don't
think so. I think that put it over the top.

(28:38):
You know, you can't, I mean, but I think you
can't judge a show or an episode with removing removing
something right right, Like, you just can't do that and
judge an episode. So I think, you know, I think
episode six is probably.

Speaker 1 (28:52):
The best one. I do think, I do.

Speaker 4 (28:55):
I do think the episode after Joel dies as episode
three was a strong one too, just her going through
his stuff, going through the closet, his jacket, all that thing,
all that stuff, and then I believe that same episode
had the council meeting, right, yes, yeah, yeah, I think
I think that one's a very very strong look. Like like,

(29:17):
looking back on every one of these episodes, overall, they're
they're good. It's just I think we're when we're when
we talk about the show because of the expectations that
is set in season one, I think, unfairly or not,
I think, you know, us and fans are nitpicking in
it a lot and be just because we have high
expectations of the show. So like, yeah, I think, you know,

(29:41):
I do think that there's a lot of good episodes
this year, just that the warts stand out a little
bit more this season. But yeah, I think episode six
is probably my favorite.

Speaker 3 (29:56):
And I think part of it too, is just it's
an incomplete story. Right where season one we had a resolution,
we had the ending of Joel swearing to Ellie, but
then in this one, it we're left at a cliffhanger,
which I get it, and I get in the vein

(30:17):
of the show and the way the game goes, the
way Part two goes, it makes sense to structure it
this way. That's why it's like, this is a weird
one to rank because it just feels incomplete, because like
with Ellie as a character, she has her like coming
back around to Joel even though she like knows what

(30:38):
he did.

Speaker 2 (30:39):
He lied and everything, and she knows.

Speaker 3 (30:41):
And then in episode seven, it really highlights the links
that she's willing to go to go after to complete
her revenge, even in the most dumb situations possible, even
when it's everything screaming the universe. I think they even
said it so much. The universe is screaming at her,

(31:03):
you probably shouldn't do this, you probably should just go back.
She has multiple instances throughout this episode where it's it's like, Okay,
maybe I should I should stop doing what I'm doing.
Tommy's in trouble. No, I don't care. I figured out
where Abby is. I go to to try and get
a boat. There's two guards. Okay, I could just take
out those two guards. Holy crap, there's like eighty people.

(31:25):
Maybe I shouldn't go after this. It's a drastic storm.
I flip over, I land on the Seraphite Island. Maybe
I should go home. No, none of that. Like at
every instance the universe tells her to don't do this,
and she goes through with it, and she maybe hits

(31:46):
rock bottom when with the killing of Owen and Mel,
but at that it still kind of feels like she's
she's willing to still sacrifice everything to get revenge because
of the way she coroaches Jesse about about Abby at
the at the end where she says something about I'm
gonna have to be at peace with that. But I

(32:08):
don't know, I think she's she's doing it. I don't
think she's genuine when she says that. That's that's the thing.
I'm like, I don't know that she grew at all
after all these situations. But I understand why you do that,
because it's showing how stupid people can be when they
go after revenge.

Speaker 4 (32:24):
Yeah, very and she's shown this throughout the entire season.
The only time that she didn't show it was when
she got talked into going attending the council meeting and presenting.

Speaker 1 (32:39):
A even keel.

Speaker 4 (32:43):
No rage speech, trying to uh, you know, try to
talk talk some sense into them based off of logic,
and then that didn't work. Does that mean that she
reverted by to what she was very comfortable with?

Speaker 1 (33:02):
Maybe? Maybe?

Speaker 4 (33:03):
And then the one person that kind of keeps her
in emotional check is back at the back at the
theater with an arrow sticking, you know, out of her leg,
so there's no one to check that, right. And in
these last what episode in an episode in some change
when she goes, uh, when she goes after what was

(33:25):
her name in the last episode prior to this one,
I forget her name. She's in the sports when she
goes back to Yeah, when she goes back to Nora,
because she sees, you know, she obviously sees an entrance
and entry and entry points into getting into the getting
into the hospital, right, she just looks at it. The
smart thing to do is to rendezv you back at

(33:46):
the theater with you know whatever, you know, whatever your
relationship is with Dina, your girlfriend, potential girlfriend that is,
you know, wounded. Nope, she sees that opportunity and goes
after Nora, and uh, you know, successfully goes after Nora.
And again after after that, she has she puts two

(34:10):
and two together whale and she says, oh, she's at
the aquarium and she leaves, you know, Tommy, and she
goes after Abby and you're just kind of like it,
it's irrational. It's not the last thing Joel said was
I hope you do better a little better than me.

Speaker 2 (34:30):
She's not.

Speaker 1 (34:33):
She's doing the exact same thing he would have done.

Speaker 4 (34:36):
And so she and maybe this is a part of
that character journey and character arc where maybe later down
the line she'll get presented an opportunity to maybe redeem herself,
redeem herself a little bit and and uh not to
go after something that is downright stupid and just leave

(34:57):
it and just swallow your pride and and just kind of.

Speaker 1 (35:01):
Let it go. And maybe we'll get that. We haven't.

Speaker 4 (35:04):
We didn't get that in season two and it cost
but obviously cost Jesse his life and potentially Tommy. And
there was a gunshot at the end of the episode,
which you know, we don't know if that hit Ellie
or not, or if there was a warning shot, or
if somebody maybe came in behind behind Abby or she

(35:27):
shot Tommy.

Speaker 1 (35:29):
We don't know.

Speaker 4 (35:30):
So, yeah, all these decisions that she's made.

Speaker 1 (35:34):
So far is not working out very very well.

Speaker 4 (35:38):
And because of what she because of what she wanted
and go to Seattle and get revenge, it's potentially costing lives.

Speaker 1 (35:46):
Of all of her friends.

Speaker 4 (35:47):
So it yeah, it's uh lives of b and she
made seem these bad decisions and she's gonna have to
live with them. And she killed an unborn baby, which ironically,
oh she didn't kill mel.

Speaker 2 (36:03):
But no, no, it was an accident.

Speaker 4 (36:05):
It was an accident, which, by the way, I have
a I have a problem with her holding that gun,
like the way that she holds the gun like I do.
You guys need some like firearm training like that. Both
her hands are like like limp and that the I've
I've only fired a gun a handful of times in
my life, but you've all you you're always taught to

(36:25):
keep your keep, you know, make sure that you're ready
for that record. Like it just it just doesn't make
sense to hold the gun like that, like it just
it bothers me every time she holds a gun like
somebody on set please show her, Like everybody else looks
like they're they're they're fine holding a gun. I don't
know that that bothers me, but anyway, uh, yeah, all
the decisions that she's made up to this point.

Speaker 1 (36:47):
Are very very bad.

Speaker 4 (36:48):
And then she she has the audacity to to say, oh,
that's helped you, that's helped that's given you good look
so far and to Dina and it's like, oh, it's
given me alive. YEA, Like a lot of the situation
is your fault, Ellie. You are the reason why your
friends are either getting killed, shot at, or you know,

(37:09):
have an arrow through the leg.

Speaker 1 (37:10):
It's it's your fault.

Speaker 4 (37:11):
And you have the audacity to sit here and and
make fun of Dina's good luck bracelet.

Speaker 1 (37:17):
So anyway, yeah, a lot of a lot.

Speaker 4 (37:19):
Of the decisions that she's made this season are very,
very poor and bad, and maybe you should maybe stop
and think about your actions before you make them and
be like, well, you know, up until this point, I
haven't been a gary good decision maker. So I'm going
to listen, I'm going to do the opposite of what

(37:41):
my mind tells me to do, and maybe I'll survive.

Speaker 2 (37:44):
M brutal. Brutal.

Speaker 3 (37:46):
But this makes sense now, especially like when you talk
about the game and talk about how we're supposed to
care about Abby. I think season three's goal is too
is going to be Oh.

Speaker 2 (38:00):
I get it, Abby.

Speaker 3 (38:01):
I'm kind of on your side at this point because
with the way season two goes for Ellie, it makes
you go ky, Ellie, you're being very stupid right now,
You're being very stupid, and it's resulted in Jesse's death,
Owen's death, Mel's death, Mel's unborn child's deaths. I mean,
who else. It feels like there's another one, Nora's death,

(38:24):
there's others. I'm sure that I'm blanking on, but it's
resulted in so many people dying. But you're so focused
on it and you're not realizing the repercussions of everything.
And maybe she does with the unborn child, but again
I don't know that she does with the way she says.
I have to be at peace with it in terms

(38:44):
of talking about Abby's going after Abby and the revenge
factor of that. I am glad that Jesse, played by
Young Mazano, had a really strong episode, but it's still.

Speaker 2 (38:57):
Sad how.

Speaker 3 (39:00):
How brutal it was, because it's not brutal in terms
of like gory or anything like that. It's brutal in
that it just happens in an instant, like he's just
gone like that, and he's after he figures out earlier
in the episode that he can't die because he's got
a he's the father of a child on the way,

(39:22):
and he's just never going to do that. They're never
going to see that anymore, never going to become the
father that he hoped to be at the end of
the day, and to just be taken in that instance.
While it is good that him and him and Ellie
had that kind of come into terms with each other
and kind of apologize and kind of forgiveness kind of
this kind of that, it's still sad with where Jesse

(39:45):
ends up. And I knew that Jesse died, but I
didn't know how Jesse died, and it was like, oh,
it's just like this, Wow, this is shocking and brutal.

Speaker 2 (39:55):
Also p s A.

Speaker 3 (39:57):
If you want to avoid all spoilers, don't watch the
game version of this because it's it's told from Abbey's
perspective and it reveals a lot. So if you don't
want to be spoiled heading into season three, keep keep
away from that game comparison.

Speaker 4 (40:15):
Yeah, I if you want, what I would do is
IGN does a good job, which I have my own
issues with IGN, but IGN does a good job of
doing a game comparison up into the episodes. So you
type in like Last of Us season two, episode one

(40:39):
game comparison or something like that, and ign should be
one of the top ones. Each video is like ten
to thirteen minutes or whatever, and they'll put side by
sides and then they'll do just what was different, what
was the same, that kind of thing. So they do
a decent job of that. So if you want to
know what happened in the game versus what happened in
the what happened in the uh the show, you can

(41:04):
do it that way and not actually have to watch
through the walkthrough, because, like Michael said, it's you know,
in the game, you're playing simultaneously back and forth. You're
playing as Abby and as Ellie. You're switching back and forth.
So that's the big key difference between the game and
the show up up until this far, which in this
last episode, just since you brought it up, I do

(41:25):
want to point out that those that haven't played the game,
just to keep key differences, the male and Owen death
happened a little differently. I believe mel steps up to
the front to confront Abby or not Abby Ellie, and
I think then Owen tries to go subdue Ellie then

(41:46):
and then she because you have this battle like the
struggle scene right in the game, like the typical struggle
scene where you have to like mutt button mash, and
then she ends up shooting Owen. I think she ends
up shooting Owen. And then Mel comes up with a
knife and tries to stab Abby and Ellie, and then
you overpower Mel and you stab her. And I don't

(42:09):
think she's pregnant in the game. I'll have to go
back and check, but she is.

Speaker 2 (42:14):
I think that's a thing in the game as well. Okay,
I think so.

Speaker 4 (42:18):
Obviously the version of the TV version gives us a
bet like this is the key difference between the two mediums.
In the video game, you have the struggle scene because
you're actually playing the character. You don't want them to
sit through the whole cut scene or just scene and
just watch. You want them to interact and in the

(42:40):
in the in the show, it makes sense for them
to have this tension in this build up and then
basically an old Western draw kind of situation, and she
ends up firing two shots hits uh, hits Owen, and
then one grazes Mel in the neck and she fatally
injures her fit fatally you know, kills her and the

(43:04):
and this is why this version on the TV works
is you have this big dramatic sequence of this tension
built thirty seconds of TV where you know she's, you know,
desperately telling her to cut her child out because you
have thirty seconds before I die, and then subsequently the

(43:26):
child dies. Right And this is the whole thing where
I very very much dislike this. I don't say, I'm
not gonna say I absolutely hate the dislike the way
that they've written Ellie. But this right here is the
epitome of why Ellie could be viewed as somebody that

(43:47):
we should not. Like, you had no problem killing all
these people, the people that didn't technically put hands on Joel.
You don't have a problem with them standing over and
is somebody that's about to die and just beat the
crap out of them with the pipe. You don't have
a problem with, you know, going in with the intention

(44:10):
of killing people. But you can't cut a baby out
of a stomach that is on the verge of dying,
that shouldn't.

Speaker 1 (44:19):
Die like that.

Speaker 4 (44:20):
Like it, I it just doesn't make sense to me, Like,
you don't know how to do it. She's telling you
how to do it, you don't know where it is.
Do something, do something, because baby dies if you don't
do anything at all, so like, don't give.

Speaker 1 (44:40):
Up, Like what are you doing? Like at least tried.

Speaker 4 (44:43):
Maybe the realization hit her at the moment, but like
I just feel like, you know, at least try to
save the baby's life. I don't know that that part
of it bothered me, and I know that's it kind
of tracks with her personality, and I just I in
that version of in that part of Elie as is
the part that I really do not like. And maybe

(45:04):
you know, I'm not saying it's poor writing. I do
think that it tracks with her character, and I think
that version maybe that's why we might sympathize with Abby
a lot in next season.

Speaker 3 (45:16):
Right, Yeah, I think that's the goal. I think I
think that was the goal. And this last moment with
Melanowen was to really highlight how how far Ellie has
fallen and how far she is from Oh, I shouldn't
be rooting for this character. She's just a menace and
going about this in horrible, horrible ways. And for her

(45:40):
to freeze up and not even attempt like that was
the thing I wrote in my notes, like she didn't
even attempt to try and get the baby out and
she just started freaking out, and it was I think
that's a testament to the writing and that they really
make you go question they If you didn't question before
with the way she tore Nora, you really questioned now, like, oh,

(46:03):
I don't I think Ellie's kind of a bad person.
I think Ellie is not not somebody I should be
rooting for.

Speaker 2 (46:10):
In this moment, she she.

Speaker 3 (46:15):
Not only killed two people that yeah they were they
were there when Jeel died, but they didn't It was
all abby at that point. And maybe you can maybe
include Manny and Nora because they held her back, but
melan Owen, of the five were probably least you know, like,
yes they were complicit, Yes they they participated, Yes they

(46:37):
were there, but of the of the five, those are
the two that really didn't do too much to Joel.
Like I think it was all abby and maybe Manny
and then of course Nora holding her back and all that,
but to kill them brutally in the in that moment
like that and go about it that way just just

(46:57):
absolutely brutal. And even going back to earlier in the
episode when she's she's talking to Dina about when she
found Nora and how how easy it was. She talks
about how easy it was. She thought it would be hard,
but it was easy to just kill her like that.
You just see what kind of person Ellie is in
that moment. And the path that she's going down is

(47:17):
a bad, bad path that we should not be rooting
for at this point, and it's it's a it's a
terrifying path that if she keeps going down this, she
becomes the I forget the guy's name from season one
that she killed in the restaurant, Like, she becomes somebody
like that, and we hope that she makes a turn

(47:40):
and hopefully comes to realization that the path she's going
on is the wrong path. But it also speaks to
the bigger themes of community, right, She's willing to do
this because Joel was part of her community. But it's arbitrary, right, Like,
we're still at the end of the day, people, and
do you treat people in this way? You kill people

(48:00):
this way, and especially if anyone is completely innocent. I think,
as Craig Mazen said in the post of it All,
the baby's innocent.

Speaker 2 (48:09):
Baby didn't do anything. Baby's just baby.

Speaker 3 (48:11):
So uh sad, sad, But it's it's I think it's
a testament to how they've treated Ellie and how they're
gonna make you go from hating Abby to liking Abby.

Speaker 4 (48:23):
Yeah, and you're you're referencing David the Preacher, Yeah, David.

Speaker 1 (48:28):
Yeah.

Speaker 4 (48:29):
I don't think she realizes how close to she is
to that character in terms of, uh, just the actions
that she takes. She's she's a lot closer than she
probably thinks, and she's a lot closer than you know.
I think viewers think, like you you look at him
and see in episode one, and he's doing everything for

(48:50):
his community, right, everything that he does is for his community,
Like there's you're not that far removed from what he
was and we all viewed him as a monster, right,
Ellie's not that far like you were one kill away
from just emotionally separating yourself from everything and just and

(49:11):
just putting a wall up and being a you know,
made sociopath. Like you're you're very close. Like I don't
think that she realizes that, so yeah, I yeah, I
do think it's a fascinating way to take this character arc.
There has to be some kind of redemptive art coming.

(49:33):
I would imagine in a season maybe at the end
of season three when I would imagine that Bella Ramsey
is going to be around like the way that they've
they've used Bella Ramsey and then the wave that they've
used the actress that plays Abby. Yeah, Kaitlin never the

(49:55):
way that they used her.

Speaker 1 (49:56):
She was I think credited.

Speaker 4 (49:58):
For four episodes, I would imagine, and this in next season,
it's gonna be the flipped where Abby Ellie's in it
for about three or four episodes, bear like a recurrent,
like a recurring character, and we have Caitlin Devor in
it for seven, eight, nine, however long. You're gonna go
episodes in season three and we're gonna have that perspective.

(50:19):
So yeah, yeah, we're gonna get that. We're not gonna
get that character redemption ar next season.

Speaker 1 (50:26):
We We're just not.

Speaker 4 (50:27):
We're just gonna have to wait another four years.

Speaker 2 (50:30):
We're gonna have to wait for a while.

Speaker 3 (50:32):
Yeah, because my guess is we're gonna have three episodes
dedicated to Abby's Seattle Day one, Seattle Day two, Seattle
Day three, have a throw like I don't want to say,
a throwback flashback episode.

Speaker 2 (50:47):
So that's four.

Speaker 3 (50:48):
Episodes right there, and then the rest is maybe like
the present and the the rest of that theater moment, Like,
I don't know how they how they'll how they'll go
about it from there, but yeah, it's it's it's interesting
how they're going to set it up. It's interesting how

(51:10):
when you market season three you have to imagine Caitlin
Devers and most of the trailers and and probably more
more than Ellie, more than Bella Ramsey. So I don't
think obviously we won't probably get any more of Pedro Pascal,
like that's it for him. Yeah, I don't know. I'm

(51:31):
curious how they go about it. How many episodes they
go about it? Do they go another seven episodes or
do they go maybe just six for season three and
six for a season four?

Speaker 2 (51:41):
Is that how much story you have to tell? I
don't know.

Speaker 1 (51:45):
Yeah, And I think.

Speaker 4 (51:47):
You're probably gonna get maybe half the episode to maybe
an episode of her of Abby before before Utah, right, Yeah,
so you might even get a whole episode of her
and her dad, just to build up that character and
how much she meant to how much her dad meant

(52:08):
to her. So I would imagine that could even you know,
maybe be a flashback opening up to season three, and
maybe the open up season three is like the where
we left off and then just show the app Andrath
for that and just kind of then flip back to
a flashback of what happened with you know, Appy and
her dad and that relationship. So that could take up

(52:30):
an entire episode. So yeah, yeah, I some format like
that makes a lot of sense. So we might not
see a lot of Ellie or Tommy, who We're definitely
not gonna see Jesse, Ordina or Maria.

Speaker 1 (52:43):
We'll probably see Danny.

Speaker 4 (52:46):
Ramirez come on the screen a little bit more that
arrogant many character that he plays.

Speaker 1 (52:50):
Yeah, we'll probably.

Speaker 4 (52:52):
Get Nora and Owen and mel back to kind of
show you know, how they got together. We'll probably see
good amount of Isaac, which I thought I thought I
would I would have seen more of Isaac this season,
which when they when they casted him, I thought, oh man,
this is gonna be awesome. But we've only we got
him for like three episodes sparingly, which by the way,

(53:14):
I'm a little disappointed in that because I think he's
a fantastic actor. But but yeah, I imagine it's gonna
play out something like that, and you know, it's I
do think that it's gonna be a refreshing take and
maybe able to take a lot of the hatred and
staying off of season two from a lot of these

(53:35):
people and bring.

Speaker 1 (53:37):
A little bit of the.

Speaker 4 (53:40):
Maybe bring a little bit of the happiness.

Speaker 1 (53:43):
And I don't know.

Speaker 4 (53:44):
I don't want to give credence to the negativity, but
I do see a lot of those comments, and I
don't want to sit here and say, like it don't
it doesn't affect the way that I view the show,
and I think, you know, subconsciously it might. I try
not to read those comments because I try. I try
to go into every episode in every show without the

(54:07):
opinions of others and try to watch it for myself.
But it's hard to avoid comments, these negative comments about
the show on social media because it's just they're everywhere.
So yeah, but anyway, I think I think this might
give it another refreshing take on the show or on
the game. And I think they're starting production or starting

(54:31):
to shoot at the end of the year, so probably
we're looking at a Q one or Q to twenty
twenty seven.

Speaker 3 (54:40):
Yep, probably early twenty twenty seven, or maybe around this
April March April timeline.

Speaker 4 (54:46):
Yeah, it will probably be their their key show to
kick off kick off the Q two.

Speaker 2 (54:52):
Probably, Yeah, that would be my guest too.

Speaker 3 (54:55):
And going back to what you said, I think I
think we get what we got, like in terms of
an equivalent with like episode six for Ellie and Joel,
we get that equivalent for Abby and her dad in
season three, obviously we'll get this Seattle Day one, Seattle
Day two, Seattle Day three, and then either within that

(55:18):
episode with the dad or you know, I do think
you work in how Owen, mel Nora, and Manny and
Abbey became close. But and going back to what you
just said about Isaac, because that's one of the reveals
in this episode, is that why Isaac values her so
highly is that he views her as a leader of

(55:41):
the of the WLF, a future leader of the WLF.
We probably get a better sense of that in season
three why he views her and holds her in such
high regard, because there's plenty of Mels, plenty of Owen's,
plenty of Mannis, but there's only one Abbey. Of what
makes her so special in Isaac's viewpoint? What has she
done to showcase that she is a true leader amongst

(56:04):
everyone else. We have to see that through in season three.
I would guess I'm trying to think who else we
would probably see. I mean, I think that's the main
group and then probably see the what happens with the
sniper situation that ties in with Tommy because I think

(56:25):
she said I think it was Abby that said something
about she thought it was Tommy that killed her friends.

Speaker 2 (56:30):
If I remember correctly? Was that? Am I remembering that right?

Speaker 1 (56:33):
Jong, I don't remember.

Speaker 3 (56:38):
I think she said something about like he killed my
friends or something along those lines. Because then Ellie says,
I'm the one that did it. I killed your friends.
It's me you should be taking out, or whatever the
case may be. However, she says, I forgot to write
it down afterwards. But it's interesting that she thinks Tommy's

(56:58):
the one that went about it. So is she tracking
Tommy and that's how she finds the theater at the
end of it that that was my thought process and
wondering where she's coming from in that.

Speaker 4 (57:11):
Uh give me a second, I'm gonna go. I'll go
look it up really quickly. I have Max pulled up,
come my car. We uh we uh we uh or
I went back on Max to look up the line
and yeah, it was Abby.

Speaker 1 (57:33):
Abby thought it was Tommy.

Speaker 4 (57:34):
And from what it looks like, Abby doesn't. It's funny,
it's like who are you? It was that situation because
Tommy's like, oh Abby, Ellie, like you know, you know,
stay down, and you know, he's saying her name, and
then she she comes out from behind the bar, and

(57:59):
Abby doesn't know who Ellie is, so she just goes, you,
I don't even know who you are. The whole Daniels thing.
You took everything from me. I don't even know who
you are.

Speaker 2 (58:14):
Even a thing? Right, who are you?

Speaker 1 (58:20):
Oh?

Speaker 4 (58:20):
That that kind of stuff gets me all the time.

Speaker 1 (58:24):
He's just so insignificant to me.

Speaker 4 (58:27):
No, So so she thinks that Abby, or now that
she thinks, Abby thinks that Tommy killed all her friends,
I would imagine because of the whole Snaper situation.

Speaker 1 (58:36):
Uh.

Speaker 4 (58:37):
And then she probably thinks that he was the only
one going around town killing people. And then she realizes,
you know, it's uh Ellie. And then Ellie admits to
killing all her friends and she says she did basically
it was an accident. She was she killed him trying
to get to you, and she confesses that Joel killed
everybody because he was saving me. So if anybody, if

(59:00):
you you know, if you're going to kill anybody, you know,
kill me and let him go kind of thing. And
then that's when pop in the and then we cut
to Seattle day one.

Speaker 2 (59:09):
In Ivi's POV, I let you live and you wasted it. Yep,
what a powerful line.

Speaker 3 (59:17):
I think it's the same as as it is in
the game, but I think she says it more in
the Wei form because it's both Tommy and Ellie in
the game that she lets live in that moment and
just kills Joel, but she's just talking to Ellie in
that moment, and she says, I let you live and
you wasted it.

Speaker 2 (59:35):
And then we get the cutaway.

Speaker 3 (59:38):
Two other questions, then we'll wrap this up here in
a second. One question is does the killing of Jesse
maybe make Tommy go down a revenge path you think
or or not? Because again that's the factor that's been
the biggest complaint I've seen with people, is that Tommy
was not there when Joel died. It does not seem

(01:00:01):
like he's gung ho about revenge, like like the verse
the game version was maybe it's a little different since
he wasn't there, and maybe it's a little different now
that he's there when Jesse dies. But I still don't
know that this sets him on the revenge path that
we do that we get from the game version of Tommy.

Speaker 4 (01:00:21):
I don't think so. This version of Tommy seems very
much level headed with the good. He seems like a
person that is, you know, a leader that wants to
do good for the majority of people. And it just
doesn't seem like that would it surprised me, it wouldn't,

(01:00:47):
but I don't think that this character tracks that way.
And people that played the game hated that Tommy character
what happened in the second game, So maybe this is
a good change for those that you know that we
don't have that strong between him and Maria, and I

(01:01:07):
guess Jesse is is kind of, you know, their apprentice
at this like they're more even keeled, they think, you know,
with a with a more level headed way of thinking
other than Ellie. So I think we I think Tommy
probably stays on that path. You know, there's always going

(01:01:28):
to be a lot of grieving when it comes with that,
But I think, yeah, I think Tommy's going to be
I don't think Tommy strays away from that path.

Speaker 3 (01:01:38):
No, I don't think so either, And I think you
just need that extra level headed person around Ellie to
really help her realize. Like this version of Ellie, I
don't know that there's too much difference from the game
version in terms of going after revenge the way that
she goes about it, but the strength of Tommy being

(01:01:59):
maybe that one of those voices that tells her this
is not the way, or we just need to go
back home, Let's just go back home, not continue this
fight or whatever. I think she needs that more, especially
now more than ever, now that Jesse's gone and now
with Dina and her relationship being kind of fractured at

(01:02:20):
this point, because the other aspect that I wanted to
get to before we wrap up is that, you know,
Ellie tells Dina the truth about what happened in Utah,
about what happened at Salt Lake and how what exactly
Joel did to the Fireflies to make Abby and her
group go after Joel the way that they did, and

(01:02:41):
that leaves Dina just I think broken, like just like
we came all this way for this. Maybe it's it's
no different because it's still revengees revenge or whatever, but
it's different now for Dina and understanding, Oh, Joel killed
all these people to save Ellie, Like this is Oh,

(01:03:04):
this is different than what I thought.

Speaker 1 (01:03:07):
Yeah.

Speaker 4 (01:03:08):
I it almost made it seem like that they were
okay at the end there. I think, you know, I
think her giving her that bracelet was kind of like
breaking of the ice of I think we'll be fine.

Speaker 1 (01:03:23):
Yeah.

Speaker 4 (01:03:23):
I do think that she was probably taken aback by
it and probably very felt very betrayed and disgusted. I
think she probably thinks we've come all the way to
Seattle because you wanted your little revenge, and you've put
all of us in danger because of what happened in Utah,
and you knew about what happened in Utah, and you

(01:03:44):
didn't tell me before we got here. And I think
because of the secrecy is probably why she's very upset
in the situation they put her, Ellie, Tommy, and Jesse
all in. I think is a big reason why she
was very turned off. But it seemed like, I don't know,
it seemed like they kind of made up the next day,

(01:04:07):
so I don't.

Speaker 3 (01:04:08):
Know, Yeah, that might have been just kind of like
an olive branch in that moment, but she's very much
obviously still taken it back and hurt and probably I
think you're probably right in that it's just the fact
that you didn't tell me what we were going to be,
what the whole the whole story was from the jump.
Why did we have to learn about it now after

(01:04:32):
so many things have happened, And now on top of that,
Jesse has now died. Of course, at the time, Jesse
hadn't died yet. Now Jesse's died, Tommy's in trouble, Ellie
might have got shot, might not have you know, there's
a lot of factors now that's really like what have you?
What have we done for this so called revenge justice

(01:04:54):
whatever you want to try and quantify it with.

Speaker 4 (01:04:57):
Yeah, and I would imagine that's going to be a
dress maybe sometime next season maybe, but yeah, we might
have to wait another year after two years after that,
so yeah, yeah, but yeah, I yeah, that's a that's
another I guess, a smaller storyline that will have to
kind of pay attention to, kind of guess what's gonna happen.

(01:05:19):
But yeah, having the father the man that's supposed to
be the father of your child not there anymore is
probably going to be hard to car to swallow.

Speaker 1 (01:05:29):
I would imagine.

Speaker 4 (01:05:30):
I think I feel comfortable more with Tommy's demeanor going
forward than Dina's. Dina's Dina might be a little shook
and might change a little bit after what happened.

Speaker 2 (01:05:43):
And depending on what happens in the theater as well
now because she's still in there when Abby's doing everything
she's doing, so I don't know, we'll see where that goes.

Speaker 3 (01:05:53):
I did have one other thought was that the Seraphites
are still terrifying.

Speaker 2 (01:06:00):
Low kid terrifying. Did not care that Ellie didn't if
she looked like a wolf, she probably is a wolf
legs killer like this, that's terrifying. Do you think we
see what happens with the village in season three? Yeah?

Speaker 1 (01:06:16):
I think so.

Speaker 4 (01:06:16):
I think you can get a good perspective from the
WLF in next season. You know, you we we've you know,
we got uh we got a multiple different perspectives in
this season where you have Tommy talking to other people,
you had Jesse talking about it, like not named Ellie
or Joel. So I would imagine that you're gonna have

(01:06:38):
some backstory with Isaac. We'll get more Jeffrey Wright, uh,
you know, and so we'll probably get you know, more
people from that side of things and flush out some
of that stuff. And I would imagine that's going to
be another a big key episode where they just in
this episode, they just kind of show you what they
were getting ready for and then you just hear loud explosions.

(01:07:00):
I imagine that we're going to get the other perspective
next season and we're gonna have this maybe a huge
episode where it's like a huge battle, uh, and then there's
gonna be a lot of people being killed. I want
to ask you, the show seems like it's moving away
from it's kind of doing what The Walking Dead did
where they're moving away and what Game of Thrones did

(01:07:22):
You're moving away from the core concept, core enemy of
the show that kind of put you on this path,
and you're focusing more on the human to human interaction,
which I'm not gonna sit here and say it's like
all bad, but it almost feels like they're doing that.

(01:07:42):
This is very tropy where there these shows start off
this way where they you do have a lot of
zombies and vampires, and whatnot, and then you move to
them being more of an afterthought like the Walkers were
an afterthought in the later seasons of The Walking Dead
prior to the Wall, you know, the prior to the

(01:08:03):
Wall coming down, I guess the middle half of the
seasons where they just didn't show up anymore, and The
Walking Dead I guess completely got rid of zombies. And
then this is kind of tracking the same way, like
do you have like it bothers me slightly. I wish
that there were more because they're pretty loud about this stuff.

(01:08:26):
They're just shooting and burning and blowing things up with
zero to no repercussions. I feel like maybe they shouldn't
be so loud about this stuff.

Speaker 3 (01:08:36):
I wonder if it's because I think it's an island,
so maybe that's why it's like it's whatever about the
infected on the island itself. Maybe they feel like the
infected haven't reached the island or anything like that. But
I do think we're close to that, because did we
get any infected in episode seven?

Speaker 1 (01:08:57):
I don't.

Speaker 2 (01:08:58):
We didn't, right, No, we got nothing.

Speaker 3 (01:09:01):
I do think the the still the big difference is that,
and they kind of showcased it an episode.

Speaker 2 (01:09:08):
What was that five?

Speaker 3 (01:09:11):
Is that the way the infected are still around and
mutating and growing smarter, you still have to be concerned
about that. It has focused more on the human story
in the last couple of episodes. I hope it doesn't
become an afterthought because they they still are extremely dangerous

(01:09:32):
and probably the most dangerous compared to any humans or
anything like that, with what they what we saw they
could do to Jackson in episode two. I hope they
don't become an afterthought. Is it a danger, yes, But
I think they'll bring it back around because I think
those those showcase again why you have to be You

(01:09:53):
can't be comfortable even if you have all the firepower
in the world. A whode of those things show up
and you're you're screwed. You're military baser all this and
that you're probably screwed in a lot of ways.

Speaker 4 (01:10:04):
Yeah, it's I'm with you. I hope they don't resort
to that and maybe focus a little bit more. I mean,
I would imagine, going back to Abby's perspective, you're gonna
get a lot of more infected in Clickers and Bloaters
next season when you're not established in an actual I
guess city or camp. So I expect more to come

(01:10:26):
out next season. And maybe they poured a lot of
their budget into you know, the practical sets and whatnot,
which is again fantastic job of using practical sets as
much as they could. Right in the Outfitture episode they
showed three different ways that they used the water scene
where they did use blue screen, they used a practical set,

(01:10:48):
and they used they went out on the water, and
then they did some CG for the back stuff.

Speaker 1 (01:10:53):
So I do.

Speaker 4 (01:10:55):
Commend them, and I think that's probably not to say
the show is bad, but that's a very very big,
strong aspect of the show, and it's just a lot
of it. It's beautiful, the scenes, the you know, the
way that they built things and the way that they
this show and severance or two shows that use almost

(01:11:17):
everything is practical. So and SEVENS has a fantastic job
of building sets and using nature and whatnot to kind
of tell their story. And they and The Last of
Us does the same thing.

Speaker 3 (01:11:28):
And going back to what you said about the about
the bombs going off on the island and everything, I
wonder if that if the infected are a repercussion of
that because in the show, violence begets violence, but there
are violence is not without repercussions and consequences. And I
wonder if you know whatever the w lf is planning,

(01:11:48):
which we will probably get a better understanding of what
their plan was, and that we saw the the outside
of it looking in. What their plan was obviously was
to to attack the village, but the extent of their
plan Isaac saying, you know, we may be dead by
the end of this night and we're left with Abby

(01:12:09):
leading the way. If the infected may be here, or
whatever the case may be with the infected, maybe that's
the result of the violence that happens on that island
that night, and they're the the equalizer in that moment
between the Seraphytes and the WLFU and the repercussion of

(01:12:29):
that violence. So I think that could be a factor. Obviously, we'll,
like I said, we'll understand better of what their plan
was and what Owen and Mel were doing, because I
don't know if what they were doing was tied into
that bigger plan or were they doing something separate from
that From that.

Speaker 4 (01:12:48):
Plan, Yeah, it almost seems like they went rogue.

Speaker 2 (01:12:54):
Right with Abby missing and everything.

Speaker 4 (01:12:56):
Yeah, because they it almost feels like I had her
own like plans because she just completely disappeared from Isaac
and it almost feels like that they were looking for
her to one make sure that they have somebody in
charge in case everything goes to bleep in two that

(01:13:18):
she's the only.

Speaker 1 (01:13:18):
One that could do it.

Speaker 4 (01:13:19):
And so I, I don't know, like, uh, it almost
feels like that she just kind of disappeared and just
kind of left without telling anybody anything.

Speaker 3 (01:13:27):
And again, if you want to, I saw in the
game comparison the walkthrough.

Speaker 2 (01:13:33):
I should say.

Speaker 3 (01:13:34):
Some things that inform my theory about it, and I
don't want to say anything because that'll spoil things. So
I'm just gonna say, don't watch the game again, don't
watch it if you want to if you want to
avoid spoilers for it, because I think it's setting up
for something interesting with Abby and Abby's character in season three.

Speaker 4 (01:13:54):
And one quick last thing, I guess the seraphites scene
was changed in the in the in the show where
in the game it's Abby that gets basically strung up
by the Seraphites and not Ellie.

Speaker 1 (01:14:06):
I didn't know that at the.

Speaker 4 (01:14:08):
Time when I watched the show, and then I went
back and said, oh, I guess that they changed it.
I just as I was watching it, I was like,
that's weird, Like they would put her on the island
and then she's basically she failed a mission, she died
on the game, and then you had to restart. It
just felt like that. It just feel weird, Like why

(01:14:28):
would you have her capsize on the or you know,
crawl up on the island and then go.

Speaker 1 (01:14:34):
Back on a boat.

Speaker 4 (01:14:35):
I would have I thought she got to the actual
island with the with the aquarium. That would have made
more sense, I feel like, but it's not like, you know,
it didn't stand out that much.

Speaker 1 (01:14:45):
But I was just like, that's weird.

Speaker 3 (01:14:47):
I think it was just the showcasing of the universe
is telling you don't do this. Why are you still
doing this?

Speaker 2 (01:14:55):
And even when you land on the wrong island, you
still go about I tried to do this, so because
I didn't, I was gonna just make a social media
post about it just afterwards, being like, revenge makes you
do stupid things.

Speaker 3 (01:15:08):
And I think that's the strongest showcase of they wanted
to put Ellie through all the all the situations where
it was like, you have every chance to go back now.
The moment when all the lights on the boat's light up,
like that was just oh, you dodged a major bullet
with like eighty people on these boats with guns and

(01:15:32):
well armed, and then you land on the wrong island,
and like, there's just different moments where it was just oh, Ellie,
if you just turn around, But then we wouldn't have
a season three, So I get it.

Speaker 4 (01:15:44):
Yeah, yeah, it's she ignored every every sign out there,
and she went through with it anyway.

Speaker 3 (01:15:52):
Stubborn little girl, stubborn, stubborn Ellie will have to wait
for a while for season three. Like you said, it's
probably early twenty twenty seven before we see Abby's story
play out, and then I guess season four would be
twenty twenty nine.

Speaker 4 (01:16:06):
Ugh.

Speaker 3 (01:16:07):
I don't like this the way TV makes is created nowadays.
But that's it for you. Don't have to wait for
two years for us. We'll be back next week with
more about well stories because we're done covering shows for now.
I think up until I don't know what's the next
show we could maybe cover. I don't know, off ha
Ironheart I guess would be the main one.

Speaker 1 (01:16:29):
Yeah, but I would imagine it's not going to be
like this.

Speaker 2 (01:16:32):
No, they're also releasing three episodes from the jump.

Speaker 4 (01:16:35):
So yeah, I mean I would imagine the first episode
of First issue that we do when it's back out,
I would imagine we'll spend a good amount of time
on it. Just because it is three episodes. I feel
like we'll probably treat this like we treated what's that
when Star Wars show Skeleton Crew in obi Wan like

(01:16:57):
it will talk about it. Yeah, I mean we're not.
It's not going to be like darritable or we're not
going to do like a special one shot with it
like we did with and Or, which by the way,
was fantastic, which I think I'm not. I appeared on
less of that episode than I than I was because
I think you guys went like almost two hours. Yea, yeah, yeah,

(01:17:19):
I listened to the whole thing. It was fantastic. Uh So, yeah,
it's it's yeah, it's it's gonna be a moment. I
don't have high expectations. That's all I'm gonna.

Speaker 3 (01:17:32):
Say any other and or thoughts before we wrap up,
since you know you did have to tap out early
on that one, so.

Speaker 4 (01:17:38):
No, I think you guys covered it all. It was
very very good listen. So if you guys go back
and go back one issue. It's a one shot for
the and Or podcast. So I think you know you Eric,
Jessica guys nailed it, covered it really really well.

Speaker 3 (01:17:57):
Oh and I messaged it out on like Blue Sky
and everything. But the things that Eric was teasing about
during that recording, one of the things he was working
on was an interview with Genevieve O'Reilly mon Mathma herself.
He had a chance to sit down with her, and
you can read his full interview with Genevieve online.

Speaker 2 (01:18:20):
Now.

Speaker 3 (01:18:21):
I'll put the link in the show notes for people
that may have missed it, but it's a very good interview,
highlighting different moments and different things with her character in
and Or season two.

Speaker 1 (01:18:31):
Yeah, go check it out.

Speaker 3 (01:18:33):
Go check it out, and go check us out next
week with more comic ASTs. As always, you can follow
us on social media. I'm a producer Mike nine.

Speaker 1 (01:18:40):
Seven and I'm at one Punch.

Speaker 3 (01:18:43):
And rate, review, share, or subscribe to this podcast all
your favorite podcast platforms, fist starts, that'd be cool.

Speaker 2 (01:18:48):
Really appreciate it and we will talk to you guys
next week.

Speaker 1 (01:18:51):
See it if I can. Damn show. Uh, I'll do.

Speaker 2 (01:19:03):
I'll do technical waiting music, all.

Speaker 1 (01:19:06):
Right, rewatch. Okay, let's see.

Speaker 4 (01:19:10):
Damn, I have the I have the ad version of
max max max, so I have to wait through these ads.
Maybe I should just YouTube YouTube did or something. Let
me see if I can find it on YouTube.

Speaker 1 (01:19:27):
I will.

Speaker 4 (01:19:27):
I know, it's another ten seconds. I wish that once
you watch an episode you don't get these ads.

Speaker 2 (01:19:33):
Same, but I am frustrated with that too.

Speaker 1 (01:19:36):
All Right, let's see.

Speaker 2 (01:19:40):
I'm keeping this all in the podcast, by the way,
not

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