Issue 605: The Fantastic Four First Steps Spoiler Review

It's finally time to talk in full about Marvel Studios' latest film, The Fantastic Four: First Steps. Find out why the guys felt that Matt Shakman and the rest of the team finally made the great adaptation of Marvel's First Family that we've all been waiting for. Plus, the guys discuss why Vanessa Kirby is the heart of the movie, the intepretation of Reed Richards, whether they could've used more Ben Grimm, how this film showcases Johnny Storm in ways we haven't seen before, why Galactus and Shalla-Bal are antagonists not villains, what that mid-credit means for the future, and much more!   
 
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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:01):
You can do this, you.

Speaker 2 (00:15):
Do my Oh hello, they're internet. Welcome to issue six

(00:40):
oh five of Comic Cast. I'm Michael Carroll alongside Jong
Lee Jong.

Speaker 1 (00:46):
Are you still sick?

Speaker 3 (00:48):
No, I'm okay.

Speaker 1 (00:50):
That's good. That's good.

Speaker 2 (00:52):
I'm glad you don't have a sinus infection anymore. I
feel like I have one kind of not like maybe
a full on one. But I sneezed like eight thousand
times yesterday, so I'm I feel your pain this week.

Speaker 3 (01:05):
Oh those are nasty, So feel better. Go if you
have insurance, go get some steroids shots at the doctor's office.

Speaker 1 (01:15):
I will, I'll do that.

Speaker 2 (01:17):
I'll call my doctor right well, not right now, but
after this review, and I do really quickly before well,
for one, we're gonna be talking fantastic for full spoilers
on this issue of Comic Cast.

Speaker 3 (01:34):
Spoiler alert, spoiler alert, spoiler alert you can want.

Speaker 2 (01:43):
Before we get started, before we get to housekeeping, I
just want to shout out that on Friday you gave
us a non spoiler review on the Dell Olaya Show.
In case folks that miss that missed it or don't know,
I do a segment with del O on ESPN ninety
seven five and ninety two five every Friday at eleven

(02:03):
thirty Central time, and I got you to call in,
which was really fun, and I'm glad we did because
I thought you brought I thought you had great insight
is basically what I'm saying.

Speaker 1 (02:14):
You're the best.

Speaker 3 (02:15):
Oh thanks, I am Michael's friend. Apparently, by the way,
I fully take responsibility for that, because I just called
in and said, hey, Michael's expecting me to call, and
your intern just just put Michael's friend.

Speaker 2 (02:29):
I also have beef with the intern Summer. She wrote
on the podcast title Marvel's Back. It's not back. It
hadn't left. Calm down Summer. I appreciate Summer. She's the best,
one of the best interns we have. So but it
was all fun. And yeah, again, I'm glad you were
able to call in and join us on that on
that conversation because I thought you brought some great insight

(02:50):
and spoiler free thoughts about fantastic for the first steps,
which you saw Thursday night, I actually saw Saturday, so
uh yeah, full spoilers ahead. But first, as always, you
can follow us on social media. I'm at producer Mike nine.

Speaker 1 (03:06):
Seven five, and I'm at one bunch and of.

Speaker 2 (03:09):
Course, rate, review, share, or subscribe to this podcast and
all your favorite podcast platforms. Five stars that'd be cool,
really appreciate it. You can also listen to a version
of this podcast Wednesday nights at eight pm on ESPN
ninety seven five in ninety two five Okay, Fantastic four
The Fantastic Four First Steps released this past weekend, and

(03:31):
I just, I mean, just jumping straight into it, I
loved it, dude. I absolutely enjoyed what this film did.
I thought it set out to do what it wanted
to do from the jump. It's a tight story, characters,
I mean it just it hit on all cylinders for me,
and I just thoroughly enjoyed my time with the Fantastic

(03:53):
Four this weekend. What did you What did you think
of the Fantastic Four?

Speaker 1 (03:57):
Yeah?

Speaker 3 (03:57):
I gave my quick Nonspore Lily review on Dell's show
and I'll give it here, and I thought it was
great too. You know, leaving Superman a few weeks ago,
I was like, man, I don't know Fantastic four can
beat this, because I think I ultimately said it settled
on a nine for Superman when we did a review Initially,

(04:19):
I think walking Out, I was like, man, it's eight
point five to nine. And then as we were doing
the review, I think I was just in talking to
other people on social media and all that kind of thing.
It just got me more excited and happy about the movie,
and I was I said, I'll be I'm good set
only on a nine and nine is very is going
to be very hard to beat. In a few weeks
later and I said, man, I think it did it.

(04:40):
I think nine point two is is a good spot
for me to give the rating. And I yeah, I
absolutely loved it. The critics loved it, the fans loved it.
You know, it's we'll get into this, but well, there's
so many different things in this movie that are so

(05:01):
different than what we've seen so far, and you know,
this is really, I guess, really one hundred percent the
first movie out of the gate since kind of like
the reworking of the studio, because I know Thunderbolts had
a couple of a couple of things shift around, but
when they initially started writing and filming, it was still
kind of like the old way of doing things, and

(05:24):
then it got changed, like halfway through. This is the
first movie where you see the implementation of their kind
of being more hands Kevin Feige being more hands on
and you know, having running a tighter ship. The first
project was Daredevil, Well that was kind of I guess
it got rehauled. So technically we haven't seen a show

(05:50):
that has been that where it's been retooled before pre production.
So this is really the first project where the entire
thing is like, Okay, let's take a step back and
let's redo this thing. And you know, it's just felt
just completely different and refreshing and everything that you kind
of expect from a Marvel movie, it wasn't there. And

(06:14):
you know, for most of that it's a good thing.
And and the one of the biggest things that jumped
out of me was how there and I talked about
the Sundell Show, the mc humor is not there, the
corny one liners or some A lot of it is funny,

(06:36):
but it's just like it's not necessary and like in
Marvel movies, but it's not really present here. Like Johnny
is funny and clever, but when he needs to be
and when when the character you know, the character itself,
Johnny's character itself was written very very well, he's, you know,
us a sarcasm to cover up some of his insecurities

(06:59):
and and you know, like he just doesn't get taken seriously,
so he uses that humor to kind of, I guess,
I don't know, deal with people not taking like that
kind of stuff. Like it makes sense for that humor
to be there. And so I I absolutely love this
movie and if you haven't seen it, please go watch

(07:22):
and go out and see it again or see it.
And a lot of people watched it this weekend, one
hundred and eighteen million domestic two hundred and eighteen million worldwide.
You know, nothing like what we used to get before
the pandemic, but it's it's it's tracking well and I
expect this thing to make seven eight hundred million dollars.

Speaker 1 (07:44):
Yeah, definitely.

Speaker 2 (07:45):
And I want to get to the box office stuff too,
because there was a I was mentioning mentioning it to
you before we started recording. There was an article that
Variety put out about Marvel and the box office. But
I want to get back to the comedy of it,
because the comedy, like you said, it is there, but

(08:05):
it's it's more based off the situation aspects of it.
The I'm trying to think how to explain it, because
it's it's not like a red Guardian throwing out these
one liners or a guardian's with drags, where the comedy
is him not understanding certain aspects of just idioms or

(08:28):
metaphors and things like that. Like it's not anything of
that nature. It's more of just comedy for in those
moments to provide levity, and it's it's not like out
laugh out loud, like you're not going to be hysterically laughing,
maybe like a Deadpool and Wolverine, but it's done in

(08:50):
a nice way to where I enjoyed the comedy when
it happened. I mean, even like the one of the
final bits with the ben Read and Johnny trying to
put the baby car seat into the car took me
to like the three men in a baby type kind
of situation, and it was that was like just funny,

(09:10):
and again it wasn't like over the top. It was
just the subtleness of it, and I appreciated that it
was that style of comedy throughout I thought really really
was the strength of the movie. And also it just
helps in terms of future viewings because it's like the
comedy didn't feel like it needed to make these references

(09:31):
or do anything necessarily that was over the top, goofy
or anything like that. Not that there was anything wrong
with previous versions that have done stuff like that. It's
just this comedy worked really well with how they handled it.

Speaker 3 (09:45):
Oh for sure, it was right in the right spots.
And the car seat thing. Me and a couple of
my buddies who were both dads when and we were
just chuckling because yeah, when you first initially get car
seats like that, it's pretty difficult to put together, especially
if you don't know what you're doing. So yeah, we would,

(10:09):
you know, that experience made us laugh. So yeah, that
kind of stuff. I appreciate it well.

Speaker 2 (10:17):
Kind of going off of that, you know, the thing
that I think helps make this a great adaptation and
makes it feel unique compared to what we've gotten previously
is that it truly does feel like a family throughout
the course of the movie. They finally got it, They

(10:37):
finally cracked the code, They finally understood the assignment and
delivering what that family feel is. And you, being a
dad a girl dad times too, how did you feel
about the family representation here?

Speaker 3 (10:54):
It was pretty well, pretty spot on. You know. I
also do think that they had you know, I wouldn't
say there there there are good examples, uh of that
kind of dynamic within uh, you know, movies and all
that kind of stuff. And I think they pick and
chose the right things to do for each one of

(11:16):
the characters in the role and and that kind of thing.
And I think that each one of them did bring
a dynamic that is present in a lot of these families,
a lot of families just in general. You know, Johnny
being the cool, cool uncle, and you know, you need

(11:37):
one mature person in there, you know, sues the mature
one and reads the analytical one he's thinking about from
a different perspective. And and then you Ben Man, I
do wish that he was he was a little bit
more present within the family. I guess I don't know

(11:59):
where to play he's been, but I think he he
does have certain qualities about him that you know, other
people possess as well within your family. But no, I
truly think that the family aspect was a huge thing,
and that was the core piece of the entire movie.

Speaker 2 (12:18):
Oh yeah, I mean, I think from the jump of
just them finding out Sue and Reid finding out that
Sue's pregnant and that initial like that. I didn't realize
how much of the birth of Franklin would be a
key role throughout the course of this movie. And it's
an integral plot point throughout, as we discover with Galactus

(12:40):
and everything, and you know, jumping from that to just
the montage of trying to babyproof the house and just
little things and again like the family dinner, and like
all those different aspects just really helped bring to life
that family feel to it. And even like Ben, you know,

(13:04):
making making the dinner, which we've seen in the trailers,
but it was nice to see it actually play out
here or messing with Johnny, the two of them back
and forth.

Speaker 1 (13:13):
Just I love the feel of it.

Speaker 2 (13:15):
And it helps because the cast was perfectly casted. I think,
I think all of them deliver so well in their performances,
and it just the chemistry. It felt palatable, from Vanessa
and Pedro to Joseph and Yvonne, like all four of
them worked really well together. And if anything, I wish

(13:37):
there could have been more time to showcase some of
those moments.

Speaker 3 (13:41):
Yeah, yeah, each one of them. Like I said, Field
the specific role within the family, and they did, you know,
sometimes blurred the lines between what their roles were. And yeah,
it that dynamic is is something that hasn't been resent
within other Fantastic Four movies. Some of it, you know,

(14:04):
I guess maybe the first one did a little bit
of it, but like this, the last last iteration was
just god awful. And you know, you had a couple,
you know, a couple of scenes where they talk about
Sue and Johnny being related and all that kind of thing,
and they do flashbacks of them when they were kids,
but other than that, you don't really get that dynamic.
And yeah, the way that they present the how important

(14:29):
family is in the line of you know, I'm not
going to sacrifice the world or I'm not going to
sacrifice my child for the world, but I'm not going
to sacrifice the world for my child, and then she
ends up sacrificing herself for both and that that kind
of stuff is very powerful, and that kind of stuff
is you know, that kind of emotional beats we haven't
really gotten very much in the MCU recently, I guess,

(14:53):
other than Thunderbolts. So yeah, I did that kind of
stuff really hits you and then them being you know,
all together for the entirety of the movie for you know,
almost like ninety five ninety nine percent of the movie,
and dealing with Galactis and Silver Surfer. Yeah, as a unit,
as a family, Yeah, that means a lot to them

(15:17):
and to their world. So I'm glad that the there's
not much of the movie that there's a lot of complaints.

Speaker 2 (15:25):
Yeah, Like I when when thinking about doing this review,
I was having a hard time to find anything that
I could nitpick it or complain about it, because to me,
it never it never dragged. To me, it's it's quickly paced.
I mean, obviously from it being a little under two hours,

(15:46):
it's it's a fast paced movie, and it's edited very well.
The music hits, the cast is is superb. I mean
it it just it hits on all fronts. If if
I had to nitpick anything, I just I kind of
wish there was a little bit more for establishing the
family aspect. I wish there was a few scenes of

(16:06):
Chala bal during that final fight with Galactus, just to
showcase what she was exactly doing in those moments. But
outside of that, like I can't, I had a hard
time finding anything to complain about really.

Speaker 3 (16:21):
No, Yeah, I think the length of it, I think
you could have probably used another ten to fifteen minutes.
And then this is I mean, this is the smallest
of the nitpicks. But Shalabal not being referred as silver
Surfer out I don't know if that's like intentional or not,
Like there was no mention of her being like just

(16:42):
a silver surfer. And then I was waiting for Neil
Neil and we never got that. So I was like, oh, man,
Neil before Galactus and we just never got that, And
I was like, oh man, I wish that that was
thrown in there, And maybe that was just intentional.

Speaker 2 (16:58):
Yeah, And one thing that I don't think hindered it
at all was this is not an origin story but
kind of an origin story because it does similar to Superman.
It takes place a few years into their run as
being the Fantastic Four. But they handled that origin story

(17:19):
really well in the beginning, with the montage of things
from the TV show that they're supposed to appear on, Like,
it's all handled very very well, and I loved how
they handled that.

Speaker 3 (17:30):
Yeah, this and Superman were told. The origin was told
completely differently. But both told very well. Superman's was like,
how was it like thirty seconds?

Speaker 1 (17:41):
Yeah, yeah, exactly.

Speaker 3 (17:43):
Yeah, And this one was told on a TV show,
which was great too. And I really do like the
fact that they don't for both of these franchises. They
don't have to tell a traditional origin story that is
made up of the entire movie, which is fantastic. And
you know, we saw that all the way back until
Spider Man Homecoming. Even before then, Black Panther did it

(18:04):
in Civil War, so like they're finding new and creative
ways to tell ridin stories without having to take up
an entire movie.

Speaker 2 (18:10):
Yeah, and that, I mean that really helps sell the
aspect of especially like when you establish the history of
that when they go up against Red Ghosts and super Apes,
or they go against Giganto, or they go against Moleman.
And doing it in that montage the way they way
they did it helped do what I felt like Superman

(18:30):
did in one telling a already lived in world, like
feeling like I'm jumping into an already lived in world,
but also making it feel like I was watching the
comics come to life or watching an animated show come
to life. Like it really delivered on those fronts and
helped helped move the story along and hit the ground running.

(18:52):
We don't need to see the body horror elements or
any the things that the other movies focused a lot
on the terror of the initial switch of them becoming
or like the thing, like ben Grim becoming the thing,
or human tors being lit on fire. Like, we didn't
need any of that extra stuff. We've seen that, we've

(19:13):
been there, we've done that. Let's just show them doing
what they do, and that's being superheroes. And it was
it was nice to see that all over the course
of this movie.

Speaker 3 (19:23):
Yeah, and now we understand why a job Malcovitch's character
is cut. Yeah, it's just it was a montage and
it didn't make sense to keep them in there. Yeah,
they did a very well good job of editing. I
think there's not many things that you didn't need that
was not in there, or that was in there, and

(19:44):
maybe the cut too much, but yeah, I thought there's
not very much nitpicks you can do to this movie.
And it's yeah, you know, given me giving it a
nine point two, it's like it's almost perfect. I you know,
thoroughly enjoyed it. And it's also setting up for you know,

(20:06):
future kind of kind of future events there. There are
little jobs of you know, you know, the whole thing
of him being able to shift the earth and just
the tech that they have will probably come into play
when Secret Wars comes around.

Speaker 1 (20:24):
Yeah, definitely.

Speaker 2 (20:25):
And I want to get to that and when we
get to the mid credit, because that's where it really shines.
I do want to ask, Well, first, I want to
back up. I thought on Friday with Dell you brought
up a great point about Johnny Storm in this depiction
of it, showcasing the smarts, not just the you know,
the jokey side or anything like that. He has a

(20:45):
strong role in this to showcase that he's he is
more than just the lover boy and all that he
he is an intelligent character in the Marvel universe. And
breaking down Shalla Ball's language the way that he does
and connecting with her on that level was a really

(21:06):
smart way to handle that, and I thought that helped
Johnny Storm shine in a different way rather than just
being the flame on like and just using fires and
all that. I thought you brought up a great point there.

Speaker 3 (21:19):
Yeah. I really enjoyed Joseph Quinn as Johnny Storm, and
that was the one casting that I was kind of like, oh,
I don't know about this one when they did it,
and I was like, oh, I just don't know about it.
And he just blew every expectation out of the water.

(21:40):
And I keep thinking each one of these characters, I'm like, oh, no,
it was a Sioux story, and it was a Read story,
it was a Johnny story, it was a you know,
they did a good job of incorporating all of them
to an extent. I think Ben could have used a
little bit of work, and maybe you can do that
a little bit more in the sequel. But you think
about a Johnny had a very good arc in the movie,

(22:01):
and and they did did highlight how intelligent Johnny is
and which I think this is the first time they
really showed how how funny and how clever and how
like just a genius Johnny is. So you don't get
sent to space because you're funny. Allah the Johnny Storm
from you know, Chris Evans, Johnny Johnny Storm, like that,

(22:25):
that's not somebody you get, you know, thrown into space.
He's really smart and he displayed his genius from you know,
creating an algorithm to crack a foreign language with just
one line of dialogue and that's and he's that's he's
a genius. And I think that, Yeah, I think they

(22:48):
they did a very good job with the way they
you know, they portrayed Johnny and wrote him and Joseph
Quinn killed it. Like, I absolutely, I think that. Well,
I want to say that, but like I think Vanessa
Kirby did a good job and Pagri Pascal and so
I really enjoyed Johnny Storm, especially his version of Johnny Storm.

Speaker 2 (23:11):
Yeah, definitely, I loved it too, and it did it
did a great job of showcasing that. Yeah, he is
much more than what we've seen previously in the other
iterations of the character, the other aspect that I I Well,
going back to your point about Ben, I wonder if
we could have had maybe a few more scenes with

(23:32):
Natasha Leone's Rachel character and him, maybe the two of
them share a little bit more screen time.

Speaker 1 (23:38):
That way we get to learn a little bit more
about Ben.

Speaker 2 (23:41):
But at the same time, I'm glad we didn't again
focus on him being just hating himself or looking in
the mirror, like there is little moments to that, but
everyone's genuinely excited to see him, you know, the kids
cheering him, like to lift up the car and all that.
Like I I like that we had that focus on

(24:02):
this band rather than the monster focus that we've gotten previously.

Speaker 3 (24:06):
Yeah, and you know, the mostly the focus on him
in pretty previous iterations was him coming to grasp coming in,
you know, basically accepting the fact that he looks like this,
in which you know, with this this one, I'm maybe
it needed a scene or two just to kind of
get him adjusted and put a little bit of emotional

(24:29):
you know, stamp on him a little bit better. But
I not necessary, not completely necessary. I wish they maybe
did one scene to where he coming basically coming to
grips of him not looking human anymore and the other
three being you know, humanoid. But yeah, I think they missed.

(24:49):
They're missing a little bit on Ben. Other than that,
I thought he was fine. He was he was kind
of like the go to almost like him and him
and Herbie were like partners. It felt like that throughout
the whole movie. And maybe that's because you know, Herbie's
a robot and he's the thing and they kind of

(25:12):
share similar physical I wouldn't say this deformities but physical
characteristics of not being human right or looking like a human.
So I did like that relationship, that bond. Maybe they
could have, you know, built on that a little bit
more too, But but yeah, I think there was something lacking.

(25:33):
There was seasoning that.

Speaker 2 (25:36):
In that gave it a little zip, give it a
little zip the the Yeah, I mean, I could probably
used a little bit more. Ben I don't mind the
not having a scene of him coming to grips with it,
because since it had been three or four years, I
figure that moment probably happened already. That's why it's like,

(25:59):
I think the subtle like him looking in a mirror,
and the I think I think it's him that sees
the clip or maybe it's just played early on, but
the clip of him when he's human saying best looking
or whatever. And I think that's the moment when he
walks up to the to the window and you can
see his reflection at that moment. But that those things

(26:19):
that I didn't I didn't mind as much not having
it there. I do want to go back to Johnny
because I do want to mention him willing to sacrifice
himself multiple times throughout the course he's offering himself to
cha La Ball instead of the boy, and he's ready
to sacrifice himself in the end to push Galactus into
that portal. And again, we haven't seen Johnny storm in

(26:43):
this way, and I thought that was really smart.

Speaker 3 (26:46):
Yes he was. He had the Tony Stark cockiness, but
also he had the empathy of Captain America. It give
that makes sense. Very self sacrificing new you know, showed
that he loved his family more than anything else. And
the this nephew that he he you know, just met

(27:09):
not days before, he's willing to give it all. So yeah,
the arc for him is like it's dangerously complete.

Speaker 1 (27:19):
Yes, Ye're just like where is where are.

Speaker 3 (27:22):
You going to go with him? You know? Moving forward?
Is he mark for dead?

Speaker 1 (27:28):
Hopefully not? I hopefully we get to see him some more.

Speaker 2 (27:31):
But yeah, I love that he's ready to jump on
the proverbial grenade like like a Captain America would do,
but at the same time he provides that levity. I
really liked the all of that with Johnny and Joseph
Quinn's performance. I do think Vanessa Kirby's probably the heart
of this movie though, right Like sure, she just is

(27:52):
tremendous all throughout and uniting not only the Fantastic Four
but the world as it's showcased in the in the
monologue that you mentioned earlier, Like she is she is
arguably the star of this film.

Speaker 3 (28:07):
Yes, she is the heart and soul of the Fantastic Four.
I wouldn't say the leader necessarily, you know, and analytically,
you know, I think Read is still that, but she's
the driving force behind everything. She's the you know, she
provides everything that Reid can't provide, right like she you know,

(28:30):
decisions that are not dictated by code is her. It's like, hey,
like that's not right or that's this is the way
we should be doing things. And reads like well based
on my cockey like that kind of thing. I you know,
it's she did. It's such a good job and basically
giving up everything for you know, her family and for

(28:53):
herself and not for herself, giving up herself for her
family and for her kids and her kid and it just, yeah,
I thought that she did such a good job. And
you know, we kind of heard that the rumblings of
her being the core member of the of the family
going into the movie, and it's yeah, they did a

(29:14):
good job of giving us that, but not over being
overbearing and shadow overshadowing the other two or the other three.

Speaker 2 (29:22):
Yeah, no, like I thought, I thought she She was
great and fit very like all of them fit very
well with each other on screen, Like again that chemistry
that they all had, like they were all easy seen
partners with each other, no matter what the moments what were,
and Sue felt like the balancing force for all of them.

(29:44):
You know, you have the intricacies of Reed's personality, with
Johnny's personality, with Ben's personality, but she balances everyone out
and I love that about what she does to this.
It just made me think of the moment where Ben
and Johnny are like in in a bedroom waiting and
then all of a sudden, she appears and scares them,

(30:04):
Like just little moments like that was funny too. But
I like how Vanessa Kirby approached it and how they
the team and the writing team behind it approached her
character this time around. And Red is the leader for sure,
but yeah, Vanessa, Vanessa's Sue is the heart and I

(30:24):
love that that they showcase that, and it again felt
different than what we've gotten in previous iterations.

Speaker 3 (30:34):
Yeah, I did watch the last Fantastic Four. I just
can't remember a lot of the development or lack thereof
of the other ones, So I can't speak too much
on I don't remember Sue very much.

Speaker 1 (30:51):
Yeah, that's true.

Speaker 3 (30:53):
I do remember that her and Doom sharing a lot
of time together and Doom basically crushing on her like crazy. Yeah,
I yeah, So I can't speak too much on that one,

(31:14):
but like, yeah, I think, you know, the first iteration
didn't focus that much on you know, Sue Storm from
that aspect, and this is the first time we really
got like this level of importance of Sue.

Speaker 2 (31:30):
Yeah, And I think that's the strength of this movie.
And of course Pedro, I mean he delivers for me,
He delivered as Reid Richard's I thought, the way they
depicted him, and how he thinks about everything so analytically,
sometimes to a detriment, and you see the like I

(31:50):
don't I don't think they go full board with that
in this movie, but you can see where if things
go a little differently, he can go off the rails
with just thinking about the problems. When he instantly thinks
about the DNA from the jump with the pregnancy or
you know, just thinking about the problems and how to
solve them with Galactus or whatever. You can see the

(32:12):
the possibilities of what Reid can, how Reed can can
lose focus on the family, but what they He still
is focused on the family in this one, and nothing
necessarily to a detriment. But I like that depiction of
Red in this one, where he is thinking about problem

(32:33):
after problem after problem, and he is focused on work,
and Johnny or Sue have to kind of pull him
back a little bit in terms of how he's gonna
be thinking about his family. But that being said, he
does everything it is he can to save Franklin and
the rest of the family.

Speaker 3 (32:50):
At the end of the day, Yeah, he knows what's
important and he tries to solve it the best way
he can. And that's obviously not you know, gonna work.
And you know he doesn't say the loud part or
the quiet part very loud, but he it's written all
over his face. And you know, he for sure thought

(33:12):
about sacrificing Franklin to save the universe. And you know, Finesse,
I mean Sue would not have would not have it
at all, and so he would have to think of
a new way to you know, make those problems solving.
You know that part of his brain work worked really
really hard, and I think I think he did. I

(33:36):
want to keep saying like they did a good job casting,
but they really did. People doubted patro Pascal as Read Richards,
but you know, he did a very good job portraying
Read Richards. And it's at least this iteration of read Richards.

Speaker 2 (33:49):
And it's a little thing but that we you know,
we see it in the trailers and stuff. But his
cadence and his delivery onlines, I thought it was a
strength here. It's a subtle thing, but how he like
it again, it goes back to the retro sixties vibe
of it all. Like he really embodied that character in
an interesting way, and the way he delivered his lines

(34:12):
helped sell that tremendously.

Speaker 1 (34:14):
I think, mm hmm.

Speaker 3 (34:16):
Yeah. I I don't think that There's not many people
I think would have been able to give it the
same performance.

Speaker 1 (34:22):
No, for sure. Uh.

Speaker 2 (34:24):
And I'm going to the to the family side and
the plot of the movie going into it, I didn't
because I stopped watching clips and everything. So my only
basis of knowledge was the first like two trailers of
the Fantastic Four, maybe the third one. I didn't realize
how Franklin would be integral to the plot with Galactus,

(34:45):
and it was given give Me, Give Me the Boy,
and I'll spare your world. Did not realize that was
going to be the plot thread going into it, so
it was kind of a surprise for me.

Speaker 1 (34:59):
And I like that hook. I liked how they like
zeroed in on.

Speaker 2 (35:04):
Yeah, Franklin is this ultra powerful being as we see
him save Sue in the end. We were not hiding
or shying away from the cosmic powers that Franklin possibly
has or seemingly has, and Galactus.

Speaker 1 (35:18):
Sees it for sure.

Speaker 2 (35:20):
I I think that was a smart route to go to. Yes,
it is a world ending threat, but it is a
family threat at the end of the day.

Speaker 3 (35:29):
Yeah, and you know, Franklin is everything Galactus isn't easy,
you know, world creator, universe creator something. You know, Galactus
is feeding off of universes to survive. So yeah, it's
it's like the complete opposite of what Galactus is. And
that's you know why it's so intriguing to you know,

(35:53):
come across a being like this, and we basically saw
the makings of a of a god on screen at
the end of the movie where he saves you know,
his mom by just touching touching her and brings her back.
So yeah, this is I wonder how they're going to
tackle this because they have been known to power down

(36:16):
a lot of their powerful heroes, and who knows how
old Franklin's going to get in the MCU. They might
not even age him up very very much to a
point where he is all powerful. It will be interesting
to see and that's something we'll tackle later in the future.
But yeah, I it a lot of a lot of

(36:37):
the movie, a lot of the dynamic between among the
members of the family gives a lot of you know,
incredible stame to it. And rightfully so, the Incredibles were
based on the Fantastic Four, so it should and so yeah,
the little baby in The Incredibles were you know, basically
mystique on steroids, right, going crazy.

Speaker 1 (36:59):
Yeah, yeah, the.

Speaker 2 (37:02):
I feel like they're not gonna power him down too much.
Like I feel like we could be in a way
like Century was in Thunderbolts, where he is almost as powerful,
if not as powerful as he is in the comics.
And I wonder if that's going to be the bigger
teas to the way things go, especially with where that
mid credit goes with him and the way they showcase

(37:27):
the powers of like Sue's eyes becoming like star like.
It reminded me of of Eternity from thor Love and
Thunder a little bit. You know, I know it's not
the same, but it just it reminded me of that
same style where the powers were showcased. If the baby
can do this, I can only imagine what the baby

(37:47):
could do in when he's five, ten, twelve, you know,
whatever the case. Like you said, however far they age
him up in future MCU projects.

Speaker 3 (37:57):
Yeah, it's yeah, I in yeah, I mean they could
use them in a lot of different things. And yeah,
I guess we'll tackle that bridge when it gets there.
But it's setting up for a very strong individual basically
going to go unchecked.

Speaker 2 (38:15):
Also, and when we'll get back to Franklin and what
it means in the future once we get to the
mid credit. But going to Galactus, we finally got a
galactus that wasn't a cloud like this. It's very nice
to actually see the helmet, see the design, see that
it was a practical like it. There is CGI enhancements obviously,
but it's it was all a lot of it was

(38:38):
practically done, and that was a breath of fresh air.

Speaker 1 (38:42):
And Galactus to me never felt like.

Speaker 2 (38:48):
Never felt like a true villain necessarily, more like a
force of nature. I do wonder if you could have
maybe added a little bit more in terms of helping
on understand that Galactus, while he does devour worlds, it
is just kind of a process of the universe sort
of thing, and maybe you could have showcased that how

(39:09):
he why he is doing the things that he's doing.
Obviously they have the lines of like I have this
insatiable hunger and all that, and his goal of getting
Franklin is to seemingly die, right Like. That's how I
took it of having somebody replace him as the devourer
of worlds because the universe needs a devourer of worlds,

(39:31):
and showcasing Galactus in that way I thought was one
definitely made it different from the cloud version, but also
just made it feel less like uber villain that's trying
to destroy the world. At the end of the day,
it's just a force of nature, this cosmic force of
nature that the Fantastic War have never seen before, and

(39:51):
it's just trying to do its thing and trying to
like move on from its pedestal that because we imagine
it's been there. Galactus has been the devourer for eons
at this point.

Speaker 3 (40:02):
Yeah, and yeah, I wouldn't say like a, yeah, he's
a villain because he wants to destroy everything. But I
think even in the comics, you know, Colactus isn't like
inherently super evil. You know, he's you know, he is
only digesting and inhaling universes to basically power himself, which

(40:26):
I guess you could maybe you can call him maybe
a vampire. I don't Yeah, yeah, yeah, how do you go?
Good vampire? How do you go blade? How do you go?
Like like there's maybe there's ways to do it, but
you know, he just thirsts for you know, uh, this

(40:46):
the this energy, and so yeah, I I totally understand
that aspect of it. And and the the design is
beautiful by the way, Yeah, like, I I don't know
how it almost looks like they poured endgame amount of
money within the design of Galactus and that it just

(41:11):
he just it looks great.

Speaker 2 (41:12):
Yeah, they released some like still shots of ralph Iansen
ianson in the full costume and with the makeup on
his face and all that like it. It looks CGI
when you watch it, but it's you know, it's I mean,
partially it is CGI, but still the way they did it,

(41:33):
I thought really made made galact to stand out and
be be different compared to what we've seen previously, which
is just villains and antagonists in general. Even a subtle
thing too of him grabbing the dirt and smelling it,
I thought, was like just this little thing that he does.
And I don't know if that was just if there's

(41:55):
something more there that I should read into, or if
it was simply just he gonna gonna eat this very
this this world in a little bit like this is
very good, or you know, whatever it was. But I
thought just little things like that just helped make him
feel different compared to what we've seen.

Speaker 3 (42:13):
Yeah, it's I I still and I think I think
I said this on Adull Show. I still think Lex
is the better villain, but no, they and and I
think shlon Baugh is like a much better arc obviously,
And if you really want to look at a true

(42:33):
villain and not a villain, but if you want to
look at like the the you know, she was just
a herald for Galactus. So like you look at it
and you like she had the better arc. Galactus was
just a big bad that they just had there. And
so if you know, if you, I guess, if you
want to criticize it the movie for that, I guess
you could say Galactus is pretty one dimensional. Yea, but yeah,

(42:54):
I yeah, I but I think but I argued, I
can you know, uh, basically come back with it. It's
a well, really, Silver Surfer was like the kind of
like the foc point of the whole villain, the villain
the antagonist arc, and then you had her basically, you know,
turn her back on Galactus and actually, you know, save

(43:16):
the universe, save the Fantastic Four and Earth. So I
guess I would argue back that way. But no, I
think the way that they did the villain arc and
all that acce, I you know, I thoroughly enjoyed everything
in this movie.

Speaker 2 (43:31):
Yeah, and to me, I don't I don't think of them,
either of them, Challabaal or Galactus as true villains. I
think of him as antis antagonistic and opposing forces for
the heroes that were following. But like from the jump
Chala bal when she first talks to Johnny, when he

(43:52):
follows her into space and he touches the board and
she says that that phrase to him, Julia Garner, this
is a credit to her, the way she delivers all
of that.

Speaker 1 (44:05):
There was an.

Speaker 2 (44:06):
Underlying to me, there was an underlying sense of sadness
to it, like to where she didn't really she believed
what she was saying, but it was like she was
doing it because she has to do it, because she's
being forced to do it, not because she's this gung
ho supporter of Galactus. She's just doing what she's supposed

(44:28):
to do as part of the deal. As we will
we later learned she gave herself up to save her world,
and she ends up giving herself up again to save
the Earth and Franklin and all that. But I thought,
like Julia Gardner with a lot of her line delivery,
it always came off to me as like apprehension and

(44:53):
just like you when she tells them you shouldn't have
come here, like she really means, man, y'all should not
have come here. Y'all are just asking for it because
this dude is uber powerful.

Speaker 1 (45:03):
As we know, you can't go up against him, And
I liked how Julia Garner played it.

Speaker 3 (45:10):
Yeah, and they had a a good plan that was
probably you know, one to five percent chance of succeeding,
and you know, they all are all committed to it,
and it wouldn't have succeeded without you know, Sean mbah right,
Galactus would have escaped and basically eight Earth without server Surfer,

(45:34):
and that was a pivotal moment for obviously that was
the finish right, So yeah, I think we could have
used a little bit more of her at the end,
But I think they did a good job with Man,
just the cool scenes that they did in the in
the you know, when they were getting into the black
hole area and just Johnny trying to shoot her down

(45:57):
and the physics not working directly in the in the
nova it was the supernova, I.

Speaker 1 (46:03):
Think the wormhole or whatever. Yeah.

Speaker 3 (46:06):
Yeah, man, that chasing was really really awesome and I
and I thoroughly enjoyed how they used that. All that
stuff and you know, them traveling into space and having
these adventures is kind of what the Fantastic Four is,
and we just didn't, you know, we don't get that
in the other iterations of the Fantastic Four, they just
you know, they go to outer space get in fact

(46:26):
or they get their DNA change, they come back to
Earth and they fight everything on Earth. Well in the
Fantastic Four, there you know, they actually go to space
and do these adventures and they don't necessarily show their
powers off that often other than Johnny and which I
do wish that they did Reads a little bit more,
but I understand it. I think they kind of nailed

(46:48):
the they did. They nailed the comic iteration pre pretty well.

Speaker 2 (46:52):
Oh yeah, and go into what you said. Just their
coworker Joe George, he was saying to me before we
before we started recording, was that he just wishes there
was a little bit more of them showcasing their powers,
like just maybe one more action sequence or just a
little bit more just so we see Read using the

(47:13):
stretch powers, so we see Johnny using his flames, you know,
just different aspects where we could have seen them do
it a little bit more. And I don't necessarily disagree,
but also I was like, I'm okay with what we got,
but I wouldn't mind more because the visual impact of
this movie, like the visual storytelling of this movie is tremendous.

(47:34):
The chase sequence, as you referenced, when they're in the
black hole and or the wormhole and Silver Surfer is
chasing them. You mentioned it on Dell's Show on Friday.
The way that Silver Surfer looks just in general, it
just looks phenomenal. The practical sets and the way the

(47:55):
Baxter building feels. And I was mentioning this in my
little letter box review the Keyboard, even little things like
that like it just it was a visual feast, both
practically and CGI wise. I thought that Blend really enhanced
the movie and made it a standout visually.

Speaker 3 (48:15):
Yeah, and I think they probably now found a good
comfort place of splitting kind of putting together how they
want to do CGI. I think, you know, they this
Kevin Fikey kind of adjust this too, where they man,
I forget the people that he was talking to, but

(48:35):
they the movie that there was a movie that kind
of looked amazing and the CGI was just flawless and
the budget was really low.

Speaker 1 (48:45):
Oh the creator.

Speaker 3 (48:46):
Yeah, So I think Kevin Fikey met with him and
maybe going forward that they're going to do something like
that with the rest of the movies and use more
practical effects and they're going to just look amazing going forward.
And I really hope that's the case. And I think
this is the first time where you get a good
blend of practical and CGI you.

Speaker 2 (49:08):
Had never felt, you know, how we like talked about
I'm trying to think of something like, off the top
of my head, like Captain America, Brave New World, or
some of the Avengers moments where while I enjoy those
films for the most part, at different points it does
feel like they're just standing in front of a green screen.

(49:29):
And I didn't really feel that. I'm sure there was
moments where that was happening, but I never felt like
that where it felt as if it was just them
in a room. It always felt tangible and lived in.
And you know, even the scenes of them and the
ship with the light focusing in on them. I thought

(49:52):
the Galactus eyes bit was really cool when he focused
in on Franklin or when he was just scanning ships
or scanning buildings and things like that. I loved how
they how they blended everything in this movie.

Speaker 3 (50:06):
Oh yeah, you know, I think the obvious stuff with
Silver Surfer and Galactus or like, yeah, that's that's CGI
and some of the you know, the buildings obviously too,
but you know the set that they're standing on, I'm
almost positive that's all all built. Yeah, right, So everything else,
like in the streets that's they're shooting on location. There's

(50:28):
things that they can control with sets and and you know,
you know, builds and all that stuff. I am one
hundred percent convinced, and maybe I'll be wrong on this,
but I'm completely convinced that all of that is practical,
which wasn't which wouldn't have been the case a couple
of years ago.

Speaker 2 (50:44):
Yeah, I mean, I know they talked a lot about
they used miniatures for this one too, so that I mean,
I think that helps a lot, especially when you talk
about Galactus's scale and walking through New York and all that.
Like it was smart decisions like that that while this
movie did cost a lot to make, there's little things
that you can do to bring things down and they

(51:06):
still cost money, but not nearly as much as they
possibly could. And I hope this is the approach and
this is the lessons, the good lessons that we learned
from this movie, because visually, I was just I was
blown away by how it looked at the end of
the day, I thought, I think that's one of the
standout aspects of this entire movie that really sells it

(51:29):
in being this sixties retro futuristic comic brought to life.

Speaker 3 (51:34):
Yeah, the direction of which they took the film with
the look of it was just the stroke of genius.
You know, you have the Jetsons feel to it, which
makes a lot of sense. The core aspect of it.
You made sure you had the core identity of family
like they did in The Incredibles. And Yeah, just almost

(51:57):
every direction that they went in terms of the decision
before production even started was the right to right to decision.

Speaker 2 (52:05):
Yeah, Matt Schackman and the and the rest of the
crew really smartly well done and it it And this
is a nod to the end of the movie when
they pay homage to Jack Kirby. And and I think
that visual storytelling is is a lot inspired by Jack Kirby,
who who obviously is a fixture throughout this and just

(52:27):
his inspiration and what he's done in comics and all that.
And I love that at the end of the at
the end of the film, they they show Earth eight
to eight and then they they pull back and it's
the birth date of Jack Kirby. And you have that
message where it says, if you look at my characters,
you will find me. No matter what kind of character

(52:47):
you create or assume, a little of yourself must remain there.
And and that nod and that tribute to Jack Kirby
I think was felt throughout.

Speaker 3 (52:57):
Yeah. Uh, And I think the seems like they're getting
better at honoring their creators within the last couple of
maybe this couple of years. Maybe not for some.

Speaker 1 (53:08):
Of them, Yeah, not for all of them, definitely.

Speaker 3 (53:11):
Well, definitely not for Rob Layfield, but for some of
the other creators. I think they're starting to do a
little bit of a better job. I think I think
there was a family member of Jack Kirby's that got,
you know, invited to the premiere, which doesn't happen a
lot to these creators. Yeah, I think they're starting to

(53:33):
be a little bit better. And I don't know if
this selective or not, but at least with Jack Kirby's family,
I think he's they're doing a little bit of a
better job.

Speaker 2 (53:42):
Hopefully it's a concerted effort moving forward to just do
a better job of acknowledging the comic creators, because without
without them, a lot of this stuff is not is
not happening right now, now going to the now, the
post credit obviously was the nod to Jack Kirby and
then the anime nineteen seventies Fantastic four little animated cartoon intro,

(54:05):
which I thought that was cute and that was cool.

Speaker 1 (54:07):
The mid credit obviously is the.

Speaker 2 (54:08):
Big one in terms of the larger narrative with Doctor
Doom and Avengers Doomsday on the horizon. Of course, this
is the scene where Sue is reading The Very Hungry
Caterpillar to Franklin, and then she goes to get another book,
and then when she comes back, it looks like it's

(54:29):
I assume it's RDJ, his Doctor Doom talking to Franklin
or whispering or whatever he's saying to Franklin in that moment,
and then of course it cuts to black. But yeah,
this is our biggest setup to the future of Doom's day.
Do you think I think we can safely say that

(54:50):
it's our DJ. Do you think this is Doom, is
the Doom in their world or is a different Doom?
Because we did see earlier in the movie Latveria was
showcased as one of the countries that I think Sue's
talking to, but that seat was noticeably empty. Do you
think it's that same Doom or possibly a different Doom?

Speaker 3 (55:14):
Hard to tell. I think I would say it's the same.
It's the same universe as Doom, and I think they did.
Matt Schackman came out and did say that that was
Robert Downey Junior, which I don't know why. I mean,
I mean, if you haven't contracted, I'm sure if he's

(55:34):
already getting paid, then yeah, you know, take advantage of it,
but you don't see his face or anything. But yeah,
I you know, definitely the post the post credit scene
if you guys, I mean, I don't know why you're
listening to this if you haven't seen it, but the
post credit scene definitely not worth staying through unless you
want to them to pay homage to, you know, Kirby
and just the cartoon because it adds nothing to the

(55:57):
to the shared universe. But the mid credit scene, and
you know, obviously he's going to be building towards Avengers Doomsday,
which is coming out next year. But yeah, I think
it's the same universes.

Speaker 1 (56:17):
I think so too.

Speaker 2 (56:18):
I think it's going to be that version of Doctor
Doom that we're dealing with from eight to eight and
then whatever he's discovered about Franklin, because I think it
was described previously that this Doctor Doom thinks he's or
maybe this is maybe conflating it with just rumors of
what this Doctor Doom may be doing. But if this

(56:39):
Doom is thinking he's doing the right thing by helping
cause incursions or whatever the case, maybe he realizes the
power or knows about just the power of Franklin Richards
and is going to utilize him to build a new
universe that whether that's a universe that has him as
the soul.

Speaker 1 (56:59):
Like Emperor God, whatever it is, we'll see.

Speaker 2 (57:03):
But maybe this is the route that doub is taking
with Franklin, and Franklin will be an integral, integral piece
to Doomsday in Secret Wars.

Speaker 3 (57:13):
Yeah, and I'm also wondering how, I don't know why
they didn't adjust the whole Thunderbolts thing.

Speaker 1 (57:23):
Oh yeah, the post credit.

Speaker 3 (57:24):
Yeah, yeah, I'm wondering when that's going to be addressed,
because we don't get another movie until Doomsday, right.

Speaker 2 (57:32):
Well, Spider Man Brand New Day, but that.

Speaker 3 (57:35):
Yeah, that's yeah, that's not that's street level.

Speaker 1 (57:38):
That's not going to be a multiverse.

Speaker 3 (57:40):
Yeah, so it's it's gonna be interesting how they're going
to connect everything.

Speaker 1 (57:45):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (57:46):
I wanted to quote this from Variety because it they
talked about the the post credit, and on one hand
they said, quote, on one hand, this is a terrific
way to bring the Fantastic Four into the large It
isn't about some abstract metaphysical danger. It's about their son,
creating an emotional hook into a story that, with at

(58:07):
least twenty seven major speaker roles, could otherwise become unwieldly
and Unlike twenty Eighteens, Avengers Infinity War, Doomsday isn't benefiting
from years of earlier blockbuster movies establishing the central villain
and defining what's at stake for the characters. Audiences just
aren't as invested in the Multiverse saga as they were
in the Infinity saga, But a family desperate to save

(58:28):
their child is an easy story to connect to. On
the other hand, while Franklin's ability seemingly outstrip everyone else
in the MCU, he hasn't been established yet as an
actual character beyond being a cute preschooler hinging Doomsday on
our investment in an all powerful cipher. Is a double
is doubtedly a dangerous is dubally dangerous for a blockbuster movie,

(58:53):
which is another reason to wonder whether an older version
of Franklin from the Future may show up in Doomsday
as he does in comics parentheses, It is curious that
Sue is reading a Franklin story about is reading to
Franklin a story about metamorphosis into a butterfly, followed by
a reference to the man who discovered the theory of evolution.

(59:14):
So that was from Variety, and I agree there is
an emotional hook. But I do wonder if there is
a realm where Franklin gets aged up pretty quick, pretty
quickly in these next couple of movies.

Speaker 3 (59:27):
I think so, probably a little past toddler stage. Probably
you'll probably be like five.

Speaker 2 (59:34):
Six, Yeah, yeah, I would say so, because what at
the end of the movie, it's how many years goes by?

Speaker 1 (59:41):
Four years?

Speaker 3 (59:42):
Was it that long?

Speaker 2 (59:43):
I forget exactly what? Because he is older. He is
a toddler at that point, he's not a baby baby.
But maybe it's only one year later. I forget exactly.
I forgot to write it down.

Speaker 3 (59:54):
Ah, yeah, I don't remember, but yeah, I would imagine
maybe a few more years would be where they land
with him.

Speaker 2 (01:00:02):
Yeah, I would think so, you know, somewhere in that range.
So we could see what Franklin means to the future
of Doom's day. And I imagine if Doom's after him,
he's going to be an integral part. And what Doom's
plans exactly are, whether it's incursions or creating or whatever the.

Speaker 1 (01:00:22):
Case may be.

Speaker 2 (01:00:23):
So any other points on Fantastic four. I think we
covered most everything.

Speaker 1 (01:00:28):
So.

Speaker 3 (01:00:30):
Yeah, I but yeah, I don't think so.

Speaker 2 (01:00:33):
I don't think so either. There was an article, but
we're out of time. We got to go. Thank you
all for listening to issue six hundred and five of Comiccast.
As always, we appreciate y'all. If you could leave us
a rating or a review, that would help us, and
it be really cool of you to do. You'd also
follow us on social media. I'm at Producer Mike nine
seven five and I'm at one Punch and you could rate, review, share,

(01:00:56):
ascribes this podcast and all your favorite podcast platforms.

Speaker 1 (01:00:59):
I do want to finish out on this.

Speaker 2 (01:01:00):
I forgot to add I still like Thunderbolts better than
Fantastic Four.

Speaker 3 (01:01:04):
Not surprising. I think I would have. Yeah, yeah, I
kind of sat there and like, I think Michael might
like Thunderbolts better.

Speaker 1 (01:01:14):
You are correct.

Speaker 2 (01:01:14):
I do like Thunderbolts better, but they're still very good.
So goodbye, see you