December 18, 2024 • 53 mins
Holy cow! It's the podcast's THREE HUNDREDTH EPISODE, and to celebrate this landmark event, Lauren has brought on the *incomparable* Amber Ruffin (Late Night with Seth Meyers; The Amber Ruffin Show)! Amber is an Emmy and Tony-nominated writer *and* a best-selling author, but most important of all: she and Lauren go back nearly twenty years. Despite being incredibly open to the idea of being queer (not to mention being surrounded by lesbians for most of her career in comedy), Amber only recently realized that she was more than just a *really* good ally. Amber explains how the type of people she's attracted to - androgynous women and non-binary folks - just weren't super visible until recently; also, there was the whole thing where she was married to a man for thirteen years. Amber shares how she accidentally outed herself to her male coworker because phones are hard and discusses how gay butch women have somehow ALWAYS been able to clock her, even before she could clock herself. All this, plus the "gay as hell" leather sweatsuit that Amber owned and wore as a five-year-old child!
Amber is at @amberruffin across all social media, but you can also watch her on your TV on Late Night with Seth Meyers and Have I Got News for You. Plus, check out the two books she wrote with her sister Lacey and their hilarious podcast, The Amber & Lacey, Lacey & Amber Show! Lauren was a guest in October!
Amber is at @amberruffin across all social media, but you can also watch her on your TV on Late Night with Seth Meyers and Have I Got News for You. Plus, check out the two books she wrote with her sister Lacey and their hilarious podcast, The Amber & Lacey, Lacey & Amber Show! Lauren was a guest in October!
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:06):
Y'all, Welcome to the three hundredth episode a coming out pod. Wow.
I cannot believe I am so deeply honored surprise to
(00:26):
be doing the three hundred episode. Before I introduced my
very very special guest, I just wanted to, yeah, just
to say a little bit and say thank you to everybody.
This is three hundred episodes, is I feel like such
a huge accomplishment, and that is all due to you
(00:49):
all listening, and you're the reason why this has why
the pot has kept going for three hundred, three hundred episodes.
So yeah, I just wanted to say thank you before
we officially get started and let you know how grateful
(01:09):
I am to all of you over these many, many
years and many many episodes. The Queer Root shout out
for this three hundredth episode is of course thematic. You
know I love a thematic queer Root shout out. Shout
(01:30):
out to you if your queer root is the movie
three hundred. For those who are maybe a little younger,
I hope everybody at least knows about three hundred. It
is the movie where Gerard Butler goes this is sporta
(01:54):
but yeah, it's about this battle in ancient Greece, and
basically it's a bunch of incredibly good looking, jacked dudes
being almost totally naked except for loin clause. And it
is both the most browy and most homo erotic movie
of all time. We're talking Gerard Butler, we're talking Michael Fassbender,
(02:19):
we're talking the really beautiful man from Love actually, who
plays an androgynous like king giant character, And it's just
it is you. If you haven't seen three hundred, it
is an incredibly gay movie. All of the soldiers are
sweating with each other, thrusting spears and swords at or
(02:45):
near each other. Clearly some of them are boning. It's
imploied also the like there's like one woman in the
whole movie, because it's mostly dudes band dudes. But the
woman in the movie is Lena Heade from Imagine Me
and You Gay rom com and also from Game of Thrones.
(03:09):
But yeah, so if you were if you were a
youth and you went to see the movie three hundred,
and you saw all of these sweaty, almost entirely naked
dudes backing each other up in battle and mourning each
other when one of them was fallen on the battlefield. Congratulations,
(03:32):
maybe that was your first realization that you might be
a little bit gay, y'all. I am so excited for
my three hundredth guests. This is a very special guest. Okay.
She has so many credits that I'm only gonna say
(03:53):
a few.
Speaker 2 (03:54):
She has been a writer for Late Night with Seth
Meyers since the show's very beginning in twenty fourteen.
Speaker 1 (04:00):
She also does a ton of on camera segments. She
then went on to have her very own late night show,
The Amber Ruffin Show. When you get to a point
where a show is your name, that's a big deal.
She's an Emmy and Tony nominated writer, best selling author, podcaster,
and probably most importantly, the voice of the Purple Eminem
(04:22):
her current show, Have I Got News for You Here
Saturdays on CNN and then Sundays the next day on Max.
But even more important than even more important than the
Purple Eminem thing is that I have known her for
almost twenty years because we are old. I know, isn't
(04:42):
that horrifying? We did Boom Chicago together. Boom Chicago, you
probably know from listening is It's an English language improv
slash sketch comedy theater in Amsterdam, Amsterdam, the Netherlands. We're
talking different country, different language, all different stuff. We both
(05:04):
did this weirdo job, lived in Amsterdam. This was in
our twenties. We were wild and crazy, not old people
like we are now. But that's how we initially know
each other. Her name, which I already gave away because
again she had a show named after her, is Amber Rubbin. Hello,
(05:27):
gonna emver. It's good, it's good, it's good. I'm so
excited to have you. Okay, I don't even know where
to where to dive in. Do you did I leave
out anything that you want to, like, did you want
to let the people's the peoples know about? First off? No,
(05:48):
you're like, no, you're motive, not at all.
Speaker 3 (05:52):
All.
Speaker 1 (05:52):
Right, then we're gonna dive right in to the question
I always start with, Amber, I don't even know the
answer to this. How do you identify.
Speaker 3 (06:03):
I identify as a as a as a queer woman.
Is that the question? Yeah, I as a queer woman.
Oh that's what you mean. Yeah, that's going to help
for the rest of the podcast.
Speaker 1 (06:21):
No, Well, I wanted to ask because like, words are
words are hard, and I know that when I did
your podcast, y'all. I was on Amber's very funny podcast
son Well Well.
Speaker 3 (06:36):
Into the family.
Speaker 1 (06:39):
I felt a part of that family. I felt like
me And I was like, Lacey, did we know each
other in a past life? I think it's because Lacey
and you have a lot of a lot similarity. It's
the same guy, the same guy, it's the same guy. No.
The reason why I was excited to ask you the
(07:00):
identity question is because at one part during that podcast,
you were like, Flans, we gay, and I was like,
we gay? And so people use like different words and stuff,
and I was wondering what word you liked. But I
thought it might be queer because in your coming out
Instagram post, you're wearing a shirt to said queer.
Speaker 3 (07:21):
Queer's probably true. Queer is technically what is true. Queers
is also also true, but.
Speaker 1 (07:31):
Is gay because I am an old and I mean
I'm old and that I'm old, as I've already mentioned
like three times. But also like when I came out,
queer wasn't being used yet, so I use gay, so
I just still use gay. But for people who have
come out more recently, queer is like the word now.
(07:53):
So yeah, I feel.
Speaker 3 (07:55):
Like if like when I came out and I went
on a like dating app, I stepped my ship to
non binary. I was like, that's that's where that's.
Speaker 1 (08:11):
Oh, that's see.
Speaker 3 (08:12):
I didn't know that that's where it falls.
Speaker 1 (08:17):
That's awesome.
Speaker 3 (08:18):
If you gotta find a little category for it, I would.
I think we're safe to say non binary.
Speaker 1 (08:26):
I think, oh, that's cool. Now the pronouns I'm seeing
on your screen are she? Her? Is that still what
you're Oh?
Speaker 3 (08:36):
Yes, but I meant for people I was after on
a dating you meant for dating.
Speaker 1 (08:41):
Oh shit, okay, look at this, we're learning. Well that's
why I was surprised. I was like, oh, okay, okay, gotcha.
So you.
Speaker 3 (08:50):
There, I go. No, we're getting there.
Speaker 1 (08:52):
You go.
Speaker 3 (08:54):
Getting in there that gay horse?
Speaker 1 (08:59):
Okay, yeah, so then queer totally makes more sense.
Speaker 3 (09:02):
Yeah right, Oh I love that.
Speaker 1 (09:04):
Yeah, Oh you're after noo. Okay, this is very exciting,
very exciting. Okay, So here's what I'm so excited to
have you on this. Well, I'm so excited for many
many reasons. But when you posted your Instagram post on
(09:26):
the last day of Pride of this year, so this
is all recent, this is June thirtieth. You said, I'm
looking at it right now, and what will come as
a shock to exactly zero people. I'm using the last
day of Pride to come out. Well, guess what that
was a shock to at least one person, because Flans
was shocked.
Speaker 3 (09:45):
Could not be was surprised. Okay, he really was. Listeners,
here's where we're coming from. I'm I'm forty five years old.
I just had to just gotten a divorce after being
married to a man for thirteen years. Now. Before that,
(10:10):
I lived in Holland mm hmmm, hmmm, where Flans also lived,
and we worked at a theater. Now, when you leave
the theater, you get roasted, right, So then my whole
roast was jokes about how I was gay and didn't know.
(10:32):
That was the entire roast. Lance got me a copy
of R. Kelly's show. R Kelly's video Trapped in the Closet.
Speaker 1 (10:44):
Okay, that didn't age well, but I stand by it
and being one of the funniest existing pieces of media
in the entire world.
Speaker 3 (10:52):
Also, that's the funniest president. Yes, Christ Trapped in the Wow. Also,
we watched it this I remember.
Speaker 1 (11:06):
I remember us watching it in the theater on a
big screen, and again I stand by. I mean, he's
a very bad person, but fuck, that is a very funny,
unintentionally unintentionally cace of art. I've taught it in improv
class or I've assigned it as homework, period. I don't
do that anymore. Okay, Wow, see I don't remember doing that,
(11:30):
So I guess that a part of me did have
an inkling at.
Speaker 3 (11:35):
The time that I read Damn.
Speaker 1 (11:39):
Wow did that at the time? Ring it all? Well,
fuck it, let's just get into like the story from
wherever you want to start, Like I want to hear
your coming out story, like your awareness of it, or
like if when people were making those jokes, were you like,
ha ha ha, that's funny, or were you like, I'm
suppressing things right now.
Speaker 3 (12:01):
Like so, like when I was in Amsterdam a thousand
years ago, at this point, I feel like there weren't
a lot of actresses at Boom Chicago who were not gay,
So then like a.
Speaker 1 (12:15):
Lot I was gonna ask about this.
Speaker 3 (12:17):
A lot of folks were gay. So then very often
people would be like, you're probably gay and you don't
know it yet, very often all of the time, and
I'd be like, yeah, I see it. I mean, I
don't know who, cause I'm sure, great, let's let's see.
Speaker 4 (12:33):
And I just really was really open to the idea
of it, and I believed everyone too, because I was like,
I have to make sure that if I ever get
a girlfriend, I have to be able to be nice
to her.
Speaker 3 (12:46):
I can't be treating her like I treat these men
who exists purely for my enjoyment.
Speaker 1 (12:54):
Okay, so yeah, yeah, yes, yes, yes.
Speaker 3 (12:57):
Now that's really that should have been the clue. But yeah,
that's true.
Speaker 1 (13:03):
Okay, interesting, Yeah, because you did, I feel like enjoy
men in Amsterdam, but weren't, at least when I was there,
weren't were you weren't romantically serious about anybody, at least
during the time that we overlapped a Boom, which, to
be fair, I feel like a lot of people during
(13:26):
their time in Astronaut were not romantically serious about we're
serious about anything.
Speaker 3 (13:32):
Boom Chicago was. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (13:35):
Yeah, it's kind of being very silly.
Speaker 3 (13:37):
Yeah, yes, it's the opposite.
Speaker 1 (13:39):
Of serious things.
Speaker 3 (13:42):
But yeah, so people would be like you gay, and
I'd be like, great, I can't wait to because like
everyone I know as a comedian, no one cares, no
one in my family would give two shits. No one cares.
So I knew for a fact it didn't matter at all.
And I had read that sometimes people would find out
(14:05):
that they're gay and it would make them sad, and
then I'd be like, oh, okay, I should really do
the work and accept the fact that one day I
might end up gay. So I don't feel sad. I
didn't care. Does nobody care, No one cares, No one cares.
It is as if I get well, Okay, So here's
(14:28):
the thing about coming out. Wow, what a meandering mess
of a story. There is no story. It's just a
serious as it is. I love meandering. So I did
the Amber Ruffin show where I just went in on
trans writes gay blah blah blah. So then first of all,
(14:53):
lots of people just thought I was gay. And then
also that had cold it any one who was homophobic
from yeah, my life. I assume I don't know that
I knew anyone who was homophobic truly, Yeah, because I
had been in theater since time began, my the little
(15:14):
bubble I live in. And also, you know, I don't
be putting up with shit. Don't come around some black
woman talking some homophobic shit. I'm not having it because
I know I'm next, so blah blah blah. I So
I say that to say I was very open to
(15:34):
the idea of being a gay person, but I just
didn't you know, how often do you see someone who
is a perfectly androgynous woman? You know what I mean?
Speaker 1 (15:48):
Yeah, I especially Yeah, Like and when we were in Amsterdam,
we're talking like pretty early two thousands.
Speaker 3 (15:57):
Yeah, but nobody doing it.
Speaker 1 (15:58):
Yeah yeah, yeah, that was that was like original Albard years.
Speaker 3 (16:06):
Was really wasn't a lot of Shanes.
Speaker 1 (16:09):
There weren't a lot of shame Amsterdam. I know.
Speaker 5 (16:14):
Isn't it funny that Shane was like the androgenus you're
for the early two thousands and now we look at
Shana where like she's literally wearing gye mag.
Speaker 3 (16:26):
She's not.
Speaker 1 (16:27):
This is so that's so interesting because the other thing
I wondered because I thought about this, I was like
Amber was around. I had the same thought. You did
so many lesbians and Boom Chicago, not just in the actors,
but like the wait staff, just like like there were
like so many lesbians. And I was like, oh no,
(16:49):
did we not do a good enough job of like
being like we're lesbians. If you are too, that's good,
like whatever, and then well here was my thought. Then
I was I was thinking, and I was like, unless
I'm mistaken, every single I'll say queer because I don't
know how exactly people identify, But every single career at
(17:11):
Boom was a white lady. And I don't mean like
not black, I mean white. I mean I can't think
of a single woman of color who was also queer. Yeah,
and that a of all wow, early hello, early two thousand.
But like do and sorry if this is also like
(17:33):
a dumb white lady question, But was the fact that
they're not just a Boom but like in the world
and like media, in like your day to day life
was not seeing non white queer women, Like do you
think like that was part of you not necessarily identifying
with what you were seeing or is that? I don't just.
Speaker 3 (17:57):
Think so, But they do say you got to see
it be it. Yeah they're really talking about like being
class president or some shit, but maybe also this dude.
But I wouldn't think so, because I think it's more
like being attracted to a person.
Speaker 1 (18:13):
Okay, I just simply.
Speaker 3 (18:15):
There was no one to be attracted too.
Speaker 1 (18:18):
They just don't make sense. That does make okay, that
makes sense. Yeah, that makes sense. The reason I asked
us because I remember when I was in high school
because I thought I was by for like a long time,
like into my like twenties, like when I broke up
with Heather shout out to our mutual friend, my first
(18:40):
girlfriend ever and boom actor Heather. After college, I went
back to dating guys, so I thought I was by
like into my early twenties. I know, which is crazy
because you only know me as like a very gay,
small person, so that doesn't make any sense. But it
(19:00):
took me a long time to stut out. But thank you.
That's all I ever wanted to hear. But I remember
in high school, so now we're talking like nineties. In
high school, there was one out lesbian at my school
shout out to Alex at Stable's High school and connect again,
and I did not relate to her at all. So
(19:21):
I was like, well, I can't be a lesbian because
Alex is what a lesbian is and I'm not like her.
So I'm by And I did that for like a decade.
So I just wondered if if that was any of it.
But it sounds more like there just weren't any ladies
or non binary folks walking around in your twenties that
(19:43):
made you be like, ooh, I must reevaluate. Yeah. Yeah,
so the times had to catch up to you.
Speaker 3 (19:53):
That's right, that's my problem late in life. There's been
no way ahead of my time.
Speaker 1 (20:00):
You're ahead of your time. I also said this on
your podcast, but I don't the light in life thing,
even though I'm not invalidating how it feels. I literally
had someone in the group that I facilitate on Mondays
be like, I feel like I'm a late and they
were in their thirties and I was like, you're not
a light in life was But again, not to invalidate
(20:20):
how it feels, but my rule is unless you are
over sixty five, I'm like, I don't think that's late
in life. That's just that's my personal feeling.
Speaker 3 (20:31):
But again, I'm sixty.
Speaker 1 (20:35):
Remember you look at what's your skin regime.
Speaker 3 (20:38):
It's just butter.
Speaker 1 (20:39):
Your skincare is butter. It's better. Yeah, So I'm glad
to hear that you weren't like repressing anything or like
struggling with anything. It just literally wasn't there.
Speaker 3 (20:57):
Yeah. Wow, there's literally there was none of the none
of those people existed.
Speaker 1 (21:04):
And then yeah, that's very true.
Speaker 3 (21:06):
I got married, so then other people just didn't exist.
Speaker 1 (21:10):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (21:10):
I'm not a cheaty guy and I'm not a little
horn dog. So I was just having a great time,
just not cheating, living life.
Speaker 1 (21:23):
Yeah yeah, yeah, And then so is what happened that,
like the times got up to you caught up to
you ladies, and non binary people started being more androgynous,
and then you were like bing or or did I
(21:43):
miss a step?
Speaker 3 (21:44):
What happened was I got a divorce, and then so
that came for us? Did so? Then after I got
a divorce, And I had said before if I ever
but I did, I would never say get a divorce.
I would always say if I ended up a widow,
because that was how sure I was. I was gonna
(22:06):
stay married forever. But I would say if I ended
up a widow, my uh, I wouldn't date men. Again.
I did say that. I thought that was true. I've
heard that on.
Speaker 1 (22:18):
This podcast before. Yeah, I literally people have said. Yeah.
A recent guest once told her therapist that her life
plan was to marry a man and quote watch him
die and then and then have a second life dating women,
and the therapist was like, ah, but yeah, so that's
(22:41):
like a common that's well, I'm glad no one had
to die for that to happen.
Speaker 3 (22:48):
Now. Also, that was really late in the marriage where
I was like, hmm, okay, I don't know this, this
doesn't seem like the right thing to be doing.
Speaker 1 (22:57):
Okay, yeah, but it's not. But did but that did
that start to like occur to you in the late
stages of the marriage, Like, were there people walking around
like New York that you were like, that person's attractive. Oh,
that's an interesting thought that I haven't had before about.
Speaker 3 (23:17):
I mean, I knew that I thought that that type
of person was attractive, but I certainly didn't care that
I thought that, Like, I didn't mean anything like there's
hot guys running around all the time. They don't mean
anything good. You know, who cares? I just thought the
(23:38):
same thing. Yeah, I have.
Speaker 1 (23:41):
A lot of aesthetic appreciation for hot guys, but no
interest beyond that. So I feel like, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 3 (23:52):
Yeah, me and I do a segment on Late Night
with Seth Myers called joke Seth Can't Tell Jenny with
noted lesbian Jenny Hagel.
Speaker 1 (24:02):
She us a noted lesbian. It's very true.
Speaker 3 (24:05):
And so then we were like, how did we not know?
We just tried to figure it out, Like, I don't know.
The conclusion I've come to is you don't. There just
wasn't anyone to look at. Yeah, and also I was
too married.
Speaker 1 (24:25):
Yeah, both of those things together are a powerful Yeah.
So Jenny also didn't. I don't have to feel that
silly because Jenny also didn't. She was a little a
little surprised too.
Speaker 3 (24:39):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (24:41):
This is so interesting though, because reading the comments on
your Instagram post, there were a lot of people who,
like you said, who were like I thought she was
already out, Like, so there was a big sect of
people maybe like view, maybe people who like didn't know
you or didn't know you that well but just thought
your whole vibe and esthetic was already queer. But then
(25:04):
it sounds like maybe those of us who knew you
more personally were like double taking a little bit.
Speaker 3 (25:11):
I feel like someone texts did no someone someone said
one of my friends said to their barber, you know
who I amberg roughness, And the barber goes that, uh yeah,
and my friend goes, oh, she's gay. Now she recently
(25:32):
figured out she was gay, and he goes with her
Janelle Monas, and I.
Speaker 1 (25:37):
Was like, yeah, that's a great compliment, especially.
Speaker 3 (25:42):
Covered from a barber, Like you're right.
Speaker 1 (25:46):
Ass Wow, okay, Yeah, So I guess a lot of people,
a lot of people saw it, but I think those
of us who knew you, yeah, like you're saying new
you is like, well her dog who like like having
fun with boys.
Speaker 3 (26:06):
Yeah, for a while it was so fun, but you know.
Speaker 1 (26:12):
And yeah, yeah this is okay, all right, you can do.
Have people already brought up that you could technically do
jokes Seth can't tell all by your loadsome.
Speaker 5 (26:26):
Now you would never want to box out Jenny, but like, wow,
you really.
Speaker 3 (26:32):
Seth does a bit on YouTube I think called corrections
where he just goes through and like reads comments left
on YouTube and then goes in and issues corrections blah
blah blah. And then he goes he's reading some correction.
He goes, Yeah, the next joke Seth can't tell will
(26:55):
be interesting. Let's just say there's been a redundancy car
Oh my god.
Speaker 1 (27:08):
So since your personal realization had a lot to do
with like being finally being able to be attracted to
people because the the I don't know, esthetic style, fashion
whatever finally went into your vent diagram of what you
(27:29):
think it sucks? A do you have? Because I always
shout out a queer root at the beginning of every episode?
Do you have like a person in like I don't know,
like either a famous person or like someone you like
passed by on the street briefly, or like you was
there like a queer root? Was there like a moment
that you first remember being like that is what I've
(27:53):
been looking for and didn't see until two thousand and whatever.
Speaker 3 (27:57):
Okay, do you have? Have you seen the musical fun Home?
Speaker 1 (28:03):
I've seen it. I mean I saw it at LA
So why.
Speaker 3 (28:06):
Aren't you calling this what is your Ring of Keys moment?
Speaker 1 (28:09):
Oh? Because you know why? Because A like I want
to get sued, and two because in fun Home, I
feel like it's a little more like same same you
know in that song, like she's kind of like, oh,
I feel like that's what I want to like be
or aspire to. And I feel like a root is
(28:30):
more like me watching Mannikin when I'm little, being and
like looking at Kim Cattrell and being like, oh, I
like that lady and not knowing what that means, but
knowing that I like that lady, who's the manniquin so
which and no part of me had an illusion that
like I was going to grow up and be that,
Like I already knew as a young child, I was
(28:52):
not going to grow up to be Kim Cantrell. But
I did know that I like looking at Kim Cattrell
and would probably spend a lot of my adult life
chasing women like that who then emotionally became mann against
if not factly anyway, that's not a podcast, not me,
but yeah, so I guess that's why. But yeah, you
ring a Key's moment, Yeah, ring a Key's moment, queer rude,
(29:15):
anything like that that felt that like sticks out to you.
Speaker 3 (29:20):
I one time, I do think that two gay butch women,
I think they can see that I am gay, and
I think unless you're that I might not seem very
(29:42):
gay but gay butch woman, every gay butch woman is
like my man, and I'm like no, But they were
all right because one time at a party, at an
SNL after party, I spent it's gotta be like I
don't know, it could have been a year, a minute
(30:04):
I'm gonna say, thirty minutes, twenty minutes talking to this
lady who was a butch lesbian, talking talking, talking, talking, talking,
and then I mentioned my husband and it was she
like left, like a puff of smoke, instantly she had disappeared. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (30:26):
I was like, I've been that lady before.
Speaker 3 (30:28):
Yeah, yeah, I was like, was I flirting with this
woman this whole time? I don't think I was, but yeah,
every once in a while, I feel like three times
ever that has happened to me, and it's been just
a butch lesbian and I talked to her too long
and then yeah goes down like that. Yeah, but I yeah,
(30:50):
I think that has happened to me a couple of
times where we're talking, we're talking and oh, this is
something else. Like once I was talking to some woman
who was one of Heather's friends, and she walked me
home from some night out. And she walked me home
(31:11):
and I didn't it didn't occur to me what was happening.
And then she waited while I got my keys out,
and it didn't occur to me what was happening. And
then I was like oh oh oh oh no no no, no,
no no, But I see again, Like I get it.
Speaker 1 (31:30):
I bet god. I hope all these ladies saw your
post and were like, I.
Speaker 3 (31:35):
Know I told her, all, yeah.
Speaker 1 (31:41):
Wow, so you accidentally broke a few hearts prior to this.
I don't think that, hey, it's not it's not your fault.
Queer lady. Hearts get broken real easily, as I'm sure
you know. Now, we get really attached, real real, real fast.
You imagine a whole life and then they say husband,
and then you're like, that's the gift of queer ladies.
(32:03):
We story right really well. And you're a writer, so
you slide right into this. That's right right into this lifestyle. Okay,
this is okay, this is so interesting.
Speaker 2 (32:15):
So what was I'm so excited so as you start,
so you get divorced and then you're like free to
explore this stuff.
Speaker 1 (32:27):
What was the moment Like when you do an Instagram
post and you are a famous lady, you know that
is immediately going to get like picked up by whatever outlet,
and like, so you didn't think.
Speaker 3 (32:43):
That, absolutely not. I thought who's gonna care? But I
did make the post because I was like, you know how,
I just didn't I didn't want to be on the
inside of any homophobic shit, like a little bit of
(33:08):
your little a yucky gay joke, Like I don't want
to be on the other side of that, and I
want you to know that's gonna get like a rebuke
from me. But also like I didn't like how I
don't know, it felt like, you know, how light skinned
(33:28):
black people would be passing, Like it felt like passing
a little bit, And I was like, I don't like
where this is, especially in the way with what our
nation is hurling towards, hurdling, towards.
Speaker 1 (33:45):
Hurdling, hurdling, but it's.
Speaker 3 (33:49):
I think it's herdle jerkling, has hurdle jerkling towards It's
like I couldn't be on the other side of that.
Speaker 1 (33:58):
Yeah, yeah, I get that. Before that post, though, I
assumed there was like telling friends, family stuff like what
what was that sort of who is the very first person?
Who was the first person you're told?
Speaker 3 (34:16):
I got on a dating app, on a queer dating app,
I set my shit to non binary. I found a
person I thought was cute. I sent the person to
Jenny Hagel. Now they don't allow you to take a
picture of you know, the you can't screenshot. You can't
(34:39):
screenshot the app. So I was like, okay, we were
in LA for something for the Emmy Si Zoom and
then I asked Ian Morgan, one of the old writers
on Late Night Seth, to borrow his phone. I took
a picture of the person I was chatting with with
Ian's phone. I sent the picture to Jenny Hagel from
(35:04):
Ian's phone. I deleted the picture from Ian's phone give
the phone back to Ian. A little bit later, Ian goes,
who's the picture that person you put on my phone?
I was like that, No, I get cut.
Speaker 1 (35:19):
Oh no, you're very first attempt at being sneaky. You
immediately got.
Speaker 3 (35:25):
C Yeah, I got cat.
Speaker 1 (35:27):
We didn't grow up with this kind of technology. It's
not hard.
Speaker 3 (35:31):
No, you don't know. I can't screenshot it, and I
should be able.
Speaker 1 (35:34):
So he was technically the first person you accidentally came
out to be.
Speaker 3 (35:41):
Because it's an accident. Poor Ian.
Speaker 1 (35:45):
That's beautiful though. Wow. I know that obviously that that
person whose picture it was can't know, but I wish
that they had some or I assume they can't know,
but I hope that there's like, oh, maybe they do now.
I just hope that that her said, has some whether
it's conscious or unconscious, has some glowing, warm feeling that
(36:07):
like I'm the person.
Speaker 3 (36:13):
Wow, yeah, okay, cool cool duds. I'm a cool dude.
Speaker 1 (36:20):
And so you are. Obviously you're very close to your sister.
You've written books with her, you have the podcast with her.
Oh yeah, I forget. You guys hate each other, but
you're you're bound. You're like Gilbert and Sullivan. You really
don't get along, but creatively you do all this stuff together.
So like you have to. Yeah, that's rough. But in
(36:43):
terms of telling like her, in terms of telling like
your mom, what was like did you do friends first
and like then do family or like I didn't tell
my parents until like everyone else in my life, there
was something what was he?
Speaker 3 (36:59):
I feel like I told everyone, like I don't remember.
I remember kind of remember telling Jenny. But also Jenny
was there through the whole thing where I was like,
got a divorce, cried, I thought I was gonna die,
got better, was fine, then was having fun, and then
(37:23):
got on the apps. So she was there for the
whole thing. So I don't know that I was like Jenny,
I'm gay. I think Jenny was just along for the ride.
Speaker 1 (37:35):
But what's the kid say?
Speaker 3 (37:40):
Yeah, but Lacey, I feel like I had to have told.
Speaker 1 (37:46):
Lacy still doesn't know.
Speaker 3 (37:51):
Oh yeah, I went on a date and Lacey sent
a picture of I sent a picture of the person
I went on a date with, and then Lacey sent
back a picture of our wedding. It's like, Lacey, I
love her, She's so bad. But then I told mom
(38:14):
and dad okay, and mom and dad were like like shocked,
like it was like a like it was like gossip.
They're like, oh gosh.
Speaker 1 (38:32):
Like that they forgot that you were there. They just
got excited about gossip. They got excited about celebrity gossip
and forget that.
Speaker 3 (38:41):
They were very funny and they could give two ships
do not care at all. And I knew it, but
no one cared. I've never had There's nothing less eventful.
I could get braids and it'd be a bigger deal.
Speaker 1 (38:58):
Okay, I got all hairs. Hair is a big very important.
I mean yeah, yeah, hair is real important. Okay, that
that's really nice. I like that it wasn't. I like
that nobody gave you a hard time. I like that
you didn't get any shit. Yeah, I don't know it
(39:21):
all seems it all seems real.
Speaker 3 (39:24):
Good because if you love me, you watched Amber Ruffin show,
And if you watched Amber Ruffin show, you already on board,
you already know what it is. Wow. That's yeah, I
really did myself a favor.
Speaker 1 (39:40):
Wow. Okay, I want is there is there anything?
Speaker 3 (39:47):
Yeah?
Speaker 1 (39:47):
I don't know. Is there anything else that like sticks
out to you that you want to like talk about
or like, were there any did you do the thing
where you go back and you look at your childhood
and you're like, oh, that was super gay. Oh oh
I had a crush on that little person when I
was also a little like anything like that that you
(40:08):
didn't realize at the time, but you sort of retroactively were.
Speaker 3 (40:10):
Like, I never ever ever had a crush on a
woman ever, Yeah.
Speaker 1 (40:16):
Because little kids are definitely not. But when I am little,
leather cuffs and stuff, well, well.
Speaker 3 (40:28):
I did have a leather sweatsuit.
Speaker 1 (40:32):
You had a leather sweatsuit as a as.
Speaker 3 (40:35):
A child, as a fucking five year old child, I
look good as hall but also gay as hell because
it was I'm like, if I.
Speaker 1 (40:43):
Knew that, I wouldn't have been surprised by the Instagram post.
If I knew you as a five year old had
a leather sweat's okay, wow? Yeah.
Speaker 3 (40:50):
And I was also just an outdoor child. I was outdoor,
I was biting, I was daring and taking dares. I
was certainly yeah, certainly one of those.
Speaker 1 (41:02):
Did you get called tomboy a lot?
Speaker 3 (41:04):
Oh yeah?
Speaker 1 (41:05):
And are yeah maybe?
Speaker 3 (41:06):
Oh? Also when I was a kid, I got called
little boy a lot? Oh shit, oh yeas more direct
they thought for sure. I was a little boy for
so many people. So like at the park, give the
ball back to that little boy, here you go. Little
boy happen to me quite.
Speaker 1 (41:24):
A bit, Okay, I mean I also I had like
a bowl cut, and like, I don't remember if I
got called little boy, but I definitely I had the
short hair thing going for like my whole childhood. I
had little little flans hair. Oh as we called it.
This is okay? Well that I mean, does has there
(41:46):
been any kind of have you had any kind of
thoughts about gender? Like earlier when you said non biner
and I thought you were saying that you had check
non biner for yourself. I was like, oh wow, that's
so interesting. That's not what you meant. But has since
coming out in terms of sexuality. A lot of folks
who I talked about this podcast, it's like they have
(42:07):
this realization about their sexuality and then like years later,
start to have realizations about their gender as well, because
it's like once you open one door, then you're like, oh,
there are other doors in here that I didn't know. So, like,
I don't know, you rock suits all the time, but
you've always we were We all wore suits at Boom,
Like you're not gonna do improv in a skirt, Like
(42:27):
that's just not practical. So we were all wearing suits.
Speaker 3 (42:32):
You've always I've always had a closet full of suits.
Speaker 1 (42:35):
Now your suits are like fucking stepped up. Holy shit.
Speaker 3 (42:39):
Now it's some of us buying the suits, so they
look really good.
Speaker 1 (42:43):
There are some fancy yeah suits. Yeah, but like, I
don't know, does that what did that barber call you
your little genemna?
Speaker 3 (42:50):
Ask?
Speaker 1 (42:51):
Yeah, Like, I don't know, is that anything that you
like feel like has been more liberate or something now
that you're I, I.
Speaker 3 (43:03):
Willn't feel like I have any changes in my gender
in any way. Yeah, only because I think I'm too
old for the ideas such a thing.
Speaker 1 (43:20):
I totally get that. I totally yeah.
Speaker 3 (43:23):
And also I don't think I would because the nature
of being like, I'm probably certainly not non binary, but
I'm certainly if there's a scale, I'm not on the
end of it.
Speaker 1 (43:41):
I hear you loud and clear with that.
Speaker 3 (43:44):
By nature of that, then I'm too sloppy and raggedy
to give it to it. Like I'm just too raggedy
to have put such a thing in a category. I'm
busy biting and running.
Speaker 1 (43:59):
You are really busy.
Speaker 3 (44:01):
Hook and snakes at people like that. That's the child
I was.
Speaker 1 (44:08):
You gotta hook it snakes scamber. Is there anything else
that you want to talk about that you want to
say pertaining to queer stuff, pertaining to queer adjacent stuff,
like what what is it like talking about this? Is
it like fun and exciting? Or is it still like scary?
(44:32):
And is it what? What is it like? This is
I'm so honored that you would talk about this? Is
ever outlets try to get you to.
Speaker 3 (44:42):
You're the only person who cares. Yes, you me and
Sophia Bush. End of list.
Speaker 1 (44:50):
Oh my god, that's right you. I saw that picture
of you with Sophia. But Sophia Bush will be my
future wife. I understand that she's in a very serious,
committed relationship right now, but at some point and I
will wed. So I was a little jealous when I
saw that picture of you too, but so she cared.
(45:11):
Sophia and buch.
Speaker 3 (45:12):
Care we were like late life lesbians unite. Yeah, yeah,
very cute.
Speaker 1 (45:19):
Wow, okay, that's so interesting. Well I whatsapped Alice when
I saw your post, because she's not on Instagram that much,
and I was like, Alice, did you know about this?
Did you see this? And she was like no, what,
Oh my god? So she cared. Alice is our friend
in Amsterdam. So I just want you to know that
(45:41):
there are some of us who who were surprised, delighted
and wanted I wanted you to do an interview. So
even if the magazines aren't, the paparazzi isn't hunting you down,
Flans was I want to talk to Amber about this?
Speaker 3 (45:59):
Yay? Oh good, you got me? I got you? Yeah. Yeah, yeah,
it's fun. It seems like it's the easiest thing of
all time. I mean, nothing has been easier than this.
I also thought it I could. I just couldn't find
(46:24):
you know, because if you come out, there's supposed to
be some kind of difficulty. I couldn't find it, and
I was like, well, at some point I'm really going
to have to endure the tribulations that are gay brothers
and sisters and siblings have had to answer. And don't
(46:45):
nobody give two fucking shits. It's the most uneventful thing
that has ever happened.
Speaker 1 (46:53):
Yeah, I'm really fucking glad that that's been your experience. Yeah,
I've I have talked to several well, I've talked to
a lot of people on this podcast who have felt
like not necessarily guilty, but they're like, I thought this
is gonna be hard and traumatic and like because we
all grew up with those like very special episodes where
it's like a character has like a three episode arc
(47:15):
where it's like Blossom's gay friend, and then they come
out and they get kicked out of their house and
then like by the third episode it's like bye, you've
ever seen them again. So I think a lot of
us do feel like if we don't face some of
the shittiness, it's like, I don't know, like not as
(47:37):
valid or like or like we feel guilty a little bit.
But there's no precedent for that other than society having
been shitty in the past, and it is getting better.
I mean, you know, it's real divided right now. So
parts of it are a lot worse, but parts of it,
like the parts that you and I are lucky enough
(47:59):
to live and are way way way better. And so
I think a lot of folks, especially coming out now,
are really lucky that they're not having that shitty experience.
And if people can bypass that, fuck, yeah, Like that's
that's what the ancestors want. You want people to be
(48:19):
having better experiences than they Yeah.
Speaker 3 (48:21):
I feel like if you're an old woman in comedy,
which I am, if you're black, which I also am,
then you did it. You did it. You had to.
You had to get all the bad stuff, you had
to endure it. People were crazy, they talk SI all
(48:42):
the fucking time, and then to have this one neat
thing that was supposed to be terrible, It's like someone
else already did that, someone like easy for me, sure,
but somebody was out here, you know, as a comedian,
hosting shows and shit and podcasting, and their gay ass
(49:07):
got it. And because they got it, I don't have to.
So like I see that, and I think it's pretty
cool because lord knows, I took it for a lot
of people.
Speaker 1 (49:18):
Yeah, yeah, well that's I mean, I'm looking at your
posts again and I really like you ended it, you said,
and I can't wait to be discriminated again for a
new reason. So very funny. But I'm really glad that that.
I'm glad that didn't happen.
Speaker 3 (49:33):
Yeah, still waiting. Don't worry.
Speaker 1 (49:35):
I'll come, I mean probably, but you know, if you
ever check. I'm sure if you ever check any of
those hidden folders on social.
Speaker 5 (49:44):
Media, I don't, but just don't. Don't do that, and
it may never come.
Speaker 3 (49:49):
I'm gonna check it, Dodge.
Speaker 1 (49:52):
You'll get some real nice ones. Some you inspired me
and I told my parents because of you, and you
let me know I could be myself. Hey, I guess
a real bad one. That's the beauty.
Speaker 3 (50:02):
Are you sure you don't want this? And it's a
picture of a dick?
Speaker 1 (50:05):
Yeah, you'll probably get some pictures. Probably anyone who texts
their secret folder is going to get pictures of dicks. Okay, Well, Amber,
where and how can the people find you? You have
so much? You have books out there, you have a podcast,
which I guessed on you have you have moving pictures
(50:27):
on the TV that people can look at every week.
Where can folks follow you and write your inspirational messages?
Speaker 3 (50:35):
People can? Yeah, they should be writing me messages. People
can find me at Amber Ruffin across all social media things.
I assume I shouldn't have said. I assume I think
that's true.
Speaker 1 (50:50):
If you search Amber Ruffin, you will. You're gonna come up.
I've done this and that you come.
Speaker 3 (50:54):
Up, so you'll find me and there.
Speaker 1 (50:57):
Fine, Yeah, find Amber. And can you say the name
of your and Lacey's books on your podcast?
Speaker 3 (51:04):
Lacey and I have two books called You'll Never Believe
What Happened To Lacey? Crazy Stories about Racism, and then
the second one is called World Record Book of Racist Stories.
Our podcast is called The Amber and Lacy, Lacey and
Amber Show. I'm on Late Night with Seth Myers. I'm
on Have I Got News for You? Which is a
Shewan CNN and that can be found the next day
(51:26):
on Max. And that's probably everything.
Speaker 1 (51:31):
And you're the Purple Eminem and I'm the Purple Eminem.
Speaker 3 (51:33):
That's true.
Speaker 1 (51:34):
So you can find Amber anywhere you eat em and
M's Amber thank you so much for talking to me
about those Thank you for letting me know that, like,
I'm glad that the lesbians of Boom didn't let you
down as a community, and just they're just worried, they're
(51:55):
just weren't those people around. But we were lesbian and
pretty good in your face at Boom. So I feel
okay good. I was. I was worried we didn't lesbian
hard enough, but we pretty hard. Realisbe had pretty hard? Okay?
I am at Lauren Flans on Twitter, Lauren Underscore Flanns
on Instagram, podcast is at Coming Out pod everywhere. This
(52:19):
has been the three hundredth episode, y'all. Holy crap, thank
you for listening all these three hundred years. That's not
how it works, but you know what I mean. This
will also be the last episode of the year. Not
good yeah, yeah, America. It's the last episode of America.
(52:41):
Have a good holiday season, have a good New Year's
And I don't know the next time I'll be in
your ear holes, but you'll know because suddenly you'll hear
my voice and you'll be like, oh, Lauren's back in
my ear holes.
Speaker 3 (52:55):
Havever you We did it.
Speaker 1 (53:01):
Bye.
Y'all, Welcome to the three hundredth episode a coming out pod. Wow.
I cannot believe I am so deeply honored surprise to
(00:26):
be doing the three hundred episode. Before I introduced my
very very special guest, I just wanted to, yeah, just
to say a little bit and say thank you to everybody.
This is three hundred episodes, is I feel like such
a huge accomplishment, and that is all due to you
(00:49):
all listening, and you're the reason why this has why
the pot has kept going for three hundred, three hundred episodes.
So yeah, I just wanted to say thank you before
we officially get started and let you know how grateful
(01:09):
I am to all of you over these many, many
years and many many episodes. The Queer Root shout out
for this three hundredth episode is of course thematic. You
know I love a thematic queer Root shout out. Shout
(01:30):
out to you if your queer root is the movie
three hundred. For those who are maybe a little younger,
I hope everybody at least knows about three hundred. It
is the movie where Gerard Butler goes this is sporta
(01:54):
but yeah, it's about this battle in ancient Greece, and
basically it's a bunch of incredibly good looking, jacked dudes
being almost totally naked except for loin clause. And it
is both the most browy and most homo erotic movie
of all time. We're talking Gerard Butler, we're talking Michael Fassbender,
(02:19):
we're talking the really beautiful man from Love actually, who
plays an androgynous like king giant character, And it's just
it is you. If you haven't seen three hundred, it
is an incredibly gay movie. All of the soldiers are
sweating with each other, thrusting spears and swords at or
(02:45):
near each other. Clearly some of them are boning. It's
imploied also the like there's like one woman in the
whole movie, because it's mostly dudes band dudes. But the
woman in the movie is Lena Heade from Imagine Me
and You Gay rom com and also from Game of Thrones.
(03:09):
But yeah, so if you were if you were a
youth and you went to see the movie three hundred,
and you saw all of these sweaty, almost entirely naked
dudes backing each other up in battle and mourning each
other when one of them was fallen on the battlefield. Congratulations,
(03:32):
maybe that was your first realization that you might be
a little bit gay, y'all. I am so excited for
my three hundredth guests. This is a very special guest. Okay.
She has so many credits that I'm only gonna say
(03:53):
a few.
Speaker 2 (03:54):
She has been a writer for Late Night with Seth
Meyers since the show's very beginning in twenty fourteen.
Speaker 1 (04:00):
She also does a ton of on camera segments. She
then went on to have her very own late night show,
The Amber Ruffin Show. When you get to a point
where a show is your name, that's a big deal.
She's an Emmy and Tony nominated writer, best selling author, podcaster,
and probably most importantly, the voice of the Purple Eminem
(04:22):
her current show, Have I Got News for You Here
Saturdays on CNN and then Sundays the next day on Max.
But even more important than even more important than the
Purple Eminem thing is that I have known her for
almost twenty years because we are old. I know, isn't
(04:42):
that horrifying? We did Boom Chicago together. Boom Chicago, you
probably know from listening is It's an English language improv
slash sketch comedy theater in Amsterdam, Amsterdam, the Netherlands. We're
talking different country, different language, all different stuff. We both
(05:04):
did this weirdo job, lived in Amsterdam. This was in
our twenties. We were wild and crazy, not old people
like we are now. But that's how we initially know
each other. Her name, which I already gave away because
again she had a show named after her, is Amber Rubbin. Hello,
(05:27):
gonna emver. It's good, it's good, it's good. I'm so
excited to have you. Okay, I don't even know where
to where to dive in. Do you did I leave
out anything that you want to, like, did you want
to let the people's the peoples know about? First off? No,
(05:48):
you're like, no, you're motive, not at all.
Speaker 3 (05:52):
All.
Speaker 1 (05:52):
Right, then we're gonna dive right in to the question
I always start with, Amber, I don't even know the
answer to this. How do you identify.
Speaker 3 (06:03):
I identify as a as a as a queer woman.
Is that the question? Yeah, I as a queer woman.
Oh that's what you mean. Yeah, that's going to help
for the rest of the podcast.
Speaker 1 (06:21):
No, Well, I wanted to ask because like, words are
words are hard, and I know that when I did
your podcast, y'all. I was on Amber's very funny podcast
son Well Well.
Speaker 3 (06:36):
Into the family.
Speaker 1 (06:39):
I felt a part of that family. I felt like
me And I was like, Lacey, did we know each
other in a past life? I think it's because Lacey
and you have a lot of a lot similarity. It's
the same guy, the same guy, it's the same guy. No.
The reason why I was excited to ask you the
(07:00):
identity question is because at one part during that podcast,
you were like, Flans, we gay, and I was like,
we gay? And so people use like different words and stuff,
and I was wondering what word you liked. But I
thought it might be queer because in your coming out
Instagram post, you're wearing a shirt to said queer.
Speaker 3 (07:21):
Queer's probably true. Queer is technically what is true. Queers
is also also true, but.
Speaker 1 (07:31):
Is gay because I am an old and I mean
I'm old and that I'm old, as I've already mentioned
like three times. But also like when I came out,
queer wasn't being used yet, so I use gay, so
I just still use gay. But for people who have
come out more recently, queer is like the word now.
(07:53):
So yeah, I feel.
Speaker 3 (07:55):
Like if like when I came out and I went
on a like dating app, I stepped my ship to
non binary. I was like, that's that's where that's.
Speaker 1 (08:11):
Oh, that's see.
Speaker 3 (08:12):
I didn't know that that's where it falls.
Speaker 1 (08:17):
That's awesome.
Speaker 3 (08:18):
If you gotta find a little category for it, I would.
I think we're safe to say non binary.
Speaker 1 (08:26):
I think, oh, that's cool. Now the pronouns I'm seeing
on your screen are she? Her? Is that still what
you're Oh?
Speaker 3 (08:36):
Yes, but I meant for people I was after on
a dating you meant for dating.
Speaker 1 (08:41):
Oh shit, okay, look at this, we're learning. Well that's
why I was surprised. I was like, oh, okay, okay, gotcha.
So you.
Speaker 3 (08:50):
There, I go. No, we're getting there.
Speaker 1 (08:52):
You go.
Speaker 3 (08:54):
Getting in there that gay horse?
Speaker 1 (08:59):
Okay, yeah, so then queer totally makes more sense.
Speaker 3 (09:02):
Yeah right, Oh I love that.
Speaker 1 (09:04):
Yeah, Oh you're after noo. Okay, this is very exciting,
very exciting. Okay, So here's what I'm so excited to
have you on this. Well, I'm so excited for many
many reasons. But when you posted your Instagram post on
(09:26):
the last day of Pride of this year, so this
is all recent, this is June thirtieth. You said, I'm
looking at it right now, and what will come as
a shock to exactly zero people. I'm using the last
day of Pride to come out. Well, guess what that
was a shock to at least one person, because Flans
was shocked.
Speaker 3 (09:45):
Could not be was surprised. Okay, he really was. Listeners,
here's where we're coming from. I'm I'm forty five years old.
I just had to just gotten a divorce after being
married to a man for thirteen years. Now. Before that,
(10:10):
I lived in Holland mm hmmm, hmmm, where Flans also lived,
and we worked at a theater. Now, when you leave
the theater, you get roasted, right, So then my whole
roast was jokes about how I was gay and didn't know.
(10:32):
That was the entire roast. Lance got me a copy
of R. Kelly's show. R Kelly's video Trapped in the Closet.
Speaker 1 (10:44):
Okay, that didn't age well, but I stand by it
and being one of the funniest existing pieces of media
in the entire world.
Speaker 3 (10:52):
Also, that's the funniest president. Yes, Christ Trapped in the Wow. Also,
we watched it this I remember.
Speaker 1 (11:06):
I remember us watching it in the theater on a
big screen, and again I stand by. I mean, he's
a very bad person, but fuck, that is a very funny,
unintentionally unintentionally cace of art. I've taught it in improv
class or I've assigned it as homework, period. I don't
do that anymore. Okay, Wow, see I don't remember doing that,
(11:30):
So I guess that a part of me did have
an inkling at.
Speaker 3 (11:35):
The time that I read Damn.
Speaker 1 (11:39):
Wow did that at the time? Ring it all? Well,
fuck it, let's just get into like the story from
wherever you want to start, Like I want to hear
your coming out story, like your awareness of it, or
like if when people were making those jokes, were you like,
ha ha ha, that's funny, or were you like, I'm
suppressing things right now.
Speaker 3 (12:01):
Like so, like when I was in Amsterdam a thousand
years ago, at this point, I feel like there weren't
a lot of actresses at Boom Chicago who were not gay,
So then like a.
Speaker 1 (12:15):
Lot I was gonna ask about this.
Speaker 3 (12:17):
A lot of folks were gay. So then very often
people would be like, you're probably gay and you don't
know it yet, very often all of the time, and
I'd be like, yeah, I see it. I mean, I
don't know who, cause I'm sure, great, let's let's see.
Speaker 4 (12:33):
And I just really was really open to the idea
of it, and I believed everyone too, because I was like,
I have to make sure that if I ever get
a girlfriend, I have to be able to be nice
to her.
Speaker 3 (12:46):
I can't be treating her like I treat these men
who exists purely for my enjoyment.
Speaker 1 (12:54):
Okay, so yeah, yeah, yes, yes, yes.
Speaker 3 (12:57):
Now that's really that should have been the clue. But yeah,
that's true.
Speaker 1 (13:03):
Okay, interesting, Yeah, because you did, I feel like enjoy
men in Amsterdam, but weren't, at least when I was there,
weren't were you weren't romantically serious about anybody, at least
during the time that we overlapped a Boom, which, to
be fair, I feel like a lot of people during
(13:26):
their time in Astronaut were not romantically serious about we're
serious about anything.
Speaker 3 (13:32):
Boom Chicago was. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (13:35):
Yeah, it's kind of being very silly.
Speaker 3 (13:37):
Yeah, yes, it's the opposite.
Speaker 1 (13:39):
Of serious things.
Speaker 3 (13:42):
But yeah, so people would be like you gay, and
I'd be like, great, I can't wait to because like
everyone I know as a comedian, no one cares, no
one in my family would give two shits. No one cares.
So I knew for a fact it didn't matter at all.
And I had read that sometimes people would find out
(14:05):
that they're gay and it would make them sad, and
then I'd be like, oh, okay, I should really do
the work and accept the fact that one day I
might end up gay. So I don't feel sad. I
didn't care. Does nobody care, No one cares, No one cares.
It is as if I get well, Okay, So here's
(14:28):
the thing about coming out. Wow, what a meandering mess
of a story. There is no story. It's just a
serious as it is. I love meandering. So I did
the Amber Ruffin show where I just went in on
trans writes gay blah blah blah. So then first of all,
(14:53):
lots of people just thought I was gay. And then
also that had cold it any one who was homophobic
from yeah, my life. I assume I don't know that
I knew anyone who was homophobic truly, Yeah, because I
had been in theater since time began, my the little
(15:14):
bubble I live in. And also, you know, I don't
be putting up with shit. Don't come around some black
woman talking some homophobic shit. I'm not having it because
I know I'm next, so blah blah blah. I So
I say that to say I was very open to
(15:34):
the idea of being a gay person, but I just
didn't you know, how often do you see someone who
is a perfectly androgynous woman? You know what I mean?
Speaker 1 (15:48):
Yeah, I especially Yeah, Like and when we were in Amsterdam,
we're talking like pretty early two thousands.
Speaker 3 (15:57):
Yeah, but nobody doing it.
Speaker 1 (15:58):
Yeah yeah, yeah, that was that was like original Albard years.
Speaker 3 (16:06):
Was really wasn't a lot of Shanes.
Speaker 1 (16:09):
There weren't a lot of shame Amsterdam. I know.
Speaker 5 (16:14):
Isn't it funny that Shane was like the androgenus you're
for the early two thousands and now we look at
Shana where like she's literally wearing gye mag.
Speaker 3 (16:26):
She's not.
Speaker 1 (16:27):
This is so that's so interesting because the other thing
I wondered because I thought about this, I was like
Amber was around. I had the same thought. You did
so many lesbians and Boom Chicago, not just in the actors,
but like the wait staff, just like like there were
like so many lesbians. And I was like, oh no,
(16:49):
did we not do a good enough job of like
being like we're lesbians. If you are too, that's good,
like whatever, and then well here was my thought. Then
I was I was thinking, and I was like, unless
I'm mistaken, every single I'll say queer because I don't
know how exactly people identify, But every single career at
(17:11):
Boom was a white lady. And I don't mean like
not black, I mean white. I mean I can't think
of a single woman of color who was also queer. Yeah,
and that a of all wow, early hello, early two thousand.
But like do and sorry if this is also like
(17:33):
a dumb white lady question, But was the fact that
they're not just a Boom but like in the world
and like media, in like your day to day life
was not seeing non white queer women, Like do you
think like that was part of you not necessarily identifying
with what you were seeing or is that? I don't just.
Speaker 3 (17:57):
Think so, But they do say you got to see
it be it. Yeah they're really talking about like being
class president or some shit, but maybe also this dude.
But I wouldn't think so, because I think it's more
like being attracted to a person.
Speaker 1 (18:13):
Okay, I just simply.
Speaker 3 (18:15):
There was no one to be attracted too.
Speaker 1 (18:18):
They just don't make sense. That does make okay, that
makes sense. Yeah, that makes sense. The reason I asked
us because I remember when I was in high school
because I thought I was by for like a long time,
like into my like twenties, like when I broke up
with Heather shout out to our mutual friend, my first
(18:40):
girlfriend ever and boom actor Heather. After college, I went
back to dating guys, so I thought I was by
like into my early twenties. I know, which is crazy
because you only know me as like a very gay,
small person, so that doesn't make any sense. But it
(19:00):
took me a long time to stut out. But thank you.
That's all I ever wanted to hear. But I remember
in high school, so now we're talking like nineties. In
high school, there was one out lesbian at my school
shout out to Alex at Stable's High school and connect again,
and I did not relate to her at all. So
(19:21):
I was like, well, I can't be a lesbian because
Alex is what a lesbian is and I'm not like her.
So I'm by And I did that for like a decade.
So I just wondered if if that was any of it.
But it sounds more like there just weren't any ladies
or non binary folks walking around in your twenties that
(19:43):
made you be like, ooh, I must reevaluate. Yeah. Yeah,
so the times had to catch up to you.
Speaker 3 (19:53):
That's right, that's my problem late in life. There's been
no way ahead of my time.
Speaker 1 (20:00):
You're ahead of your time. I also said this on
your podcast, but I don't the light in life thing,
even though I'm not invalidating how it feels. I literally
had someone in the group that I facilitate on Mondays
be like, I feel like I'm a late and they
were in their thirties and I was like, you're not
a light in life was But again, not to invalidate
(20:20):
how it feels, but my rule is unless you are
over sixty five, I'm like, I don't think that's late
in life. That's just that's my personal feeling.
Speaker 3 (20:31):
But again, I'm sixty.
Speaker 1 (20:35):
Remember you look at what's your skin regime.
Speaker 3 (20:38):
It's just butter.
Speaker 1 (20:39):
Your skincare is butter. It's better. Yeah, So I'm glad
to hear that you weren't like repressing anything or like
struggling with anything. It just literally wasn't there.
Speaker 3 (20:57):
Yeah. Wow, there's literally there was none of the none
of those people existed.
Speaker 1 (21:04):
And then yeah, that's very true.
Speaker 3 (21:06):
I got married, so then other people just didn't exist.
Speaker 1 (21:10):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (21:10):
I'm not a cheaty guy and I'm not a little
horn dog. So I was just having a great time,
just not cheating, living life.
Speaker 1 (21:23):
Yeah yeah, yeah, And then so is what happened that,
like the times got up to you caught up to
you ladies, and non binary people started being more androgynous,
and then you were like bing or or did I
(21:43):
miss a step?
Speaker 3 (21:44):
What happened was I got a divorce, and then so
that came for us? Did so? Then after I got
a divorce, And I had said before if I ever
but I did, I would never say get a divorce.
I would always say if I ended up a widow,
because that was how sure I was. I was gonna
(22:06):
stay married forever. But I would say if I ended
up a widow, my uh, I wouldn't date men. Again.
I did say that. I thought that was true. I've
heard that on.
Speaker 1 (22:18):
This podcast before. Yeah, I literally people have said. Yeah.
A recent guest once told her therapist that her life
plan was to marry a man and quote watch him
die and then and then have a second life dating women,
and the therapist was like, ah, but yeah, so that's
(22:41):
like a common that's well, I'm glad no one had
to die for that to happen.
Speaker 3 (22:48):
Now. Also, that was really late in the marriage where
I was like, hmm, okay, I don't know this, this
doesn't seem like the right thing to be doing.
Speaker 1 (22:57):
Okay, yeah, but it's not. But did but that did
that start to like occur to you in the late
stages of the marriage, Like, were there people walking around
like New York that you were like, that person's attractive. Oh,
that's an interesting thought that I haven't had before about.
Speaker 3 (23:17):
I mean, I knew that I thought that that type
of person was attractive, but I certainly didn't care that
I thought that, Like, I didn't mean anything like there's
hot guys running around all the time. They don't mean
anything good. You know, who cares? I just thought the
(23:38):
same thing. Yeah, I have.
Speaker 1 (23:41):
A lot of aesthetic appreciation for hot guys, but no
interest beyond that. So I feel like, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 3 (23:52):
Yeah, me and I do a segment on Late Night
with Seth Myers called joke Seth Can't Tell Jenny with
noted lesbian Jenny Hagel.
Speaker 1 (24:02):
She us a noted lesbian. It's very true.
Speaker 3 (24:05):
And so then we were like, how did we not know?
We just tried to figure it out, Like, I don't know.
The conclusion I've come to is you don't. There just
wasn't anyone to look at. Yeah, and also I was
too married.
Speaker 1 (24:25):
Yeah, both of those things together are a powerful Yeah.
So Jenny also didn't. I don't have to feel that
silly because Jenny also didn't. She was a little a
little surprised too.
Speaker 3 (24:39):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (24:41):
This is so interesting though, because reading the comments on
your Instagram post, there were a lot of people who,
like you said, who were like I thought she was
already out, Like, so there was a big sect of
people maybe like view, maybe people who like didn't know
you or didn't know you that well but just thought
your whole vibe and esthetic was already queer. But then
(25:04):
it sounds like maybe those of us who knew you
more personally were like double taking a little bit.
Speaker 3 (25:11):
I feel like someone texts did no someone someone said
one of my friends said to their barber, you know
who I amberg roughness, And the barber goes that, uh yeah,
and my friend goes, oh, she's gay. Now she recently
(25:32):
figured out she was gay, and he goes with her
Janelle Monas, and I.
Speaker 1 (25:37):
Was like, yeah, that's a great compliment, especially.
Speaker 3 (25:42):
Covered from a barber, Like you're right.
Speaker 1 (25:46):
Ass Wow, okay, Yeah, So I guess a lot of people,
a lot of people saw it, but I think those
of us who knew you, yeah, like you're saying new
you is like, well her dog who like like having
fun with boys.
Speaker 3 (26:06):
Yeah, for a while it was so fun, but you know.
Speaker 1 (26:12):
And yeah, yeah this is okay, all right, you can do.
Have people already brought up that you could technically do
jokes Seth can't tell all by your loadsome.
Speaker 5 (26:26):
Now you would never want to box out Jenny, but like, wow,
you really.
Speaker 3 (26:32):
Seth does a bit on YouTube I think called corrections
where he just goes through and like reads comments left
on YouTube and then goes in and issues corrections blah
blah blah. And then he goes he's reading some correction.
He goes, Yeah, the next joke Seth can't tell will
(26:55):
be interesting. Let's just say there's been a redundancy car
Oh my god.
Speaker 1 (27:08):
So since your personal realization had a lot to do
with like being finally being able to be attracted to
people because the the I don't know, esthetic style, fashion
whatever finally went into your vent diagram of what you
(27:29):
think it sucks? A do you have? Because I always
shout out a queer root at the beginning of every episode?
Do you have like a person in like I don't know,
like either a famous person or like someone you like
passed by on the street briefly, or like you was
there like a queer root? Was there like a moment
that you first remember being like that is what I've
(27:53):
been looking for and didn't see until two thousand and whatever.
Speaker 3 (27:57):
Okay, do you have? Have you seen the musical fun Home?
Speaker 1 (28:03):
I've seen it. I mean I saw it at LA
So why.
Speaker 3 (28:06):
Aren't you calling this what is your Ring of Keys moment?
Speaker 1 (28:09):
Oh? Because you know why? Because A like I want
to get sued, and two because in fun Home, I
feel like it's a little more like same same you
know in that song, like she's kind of like, oh,
I feel like that's what I want to like be
or aspire to. And I feel like a root is
(28:30):
more like me watching Mannikin when I'm little, being and
like looking at Kim Cattrell and being like, oh, I
like that lady and not knowing what that means, but
knowing that I like that lady, who's the manniquin so
which and no part of me had an illusion that
like I was going to grow up and be that,
Like I already knew as a young child, I was
(28:52):
not going to grow up to be Kim Cantrell. But
I did know that I like looking at Kim Cattrell
and would probably spend a lot of my adult life
chasing women like that who then emotionally became mann against
if not factly anyway, that's not a podcast, not me,
but yeah, so I guess that's why. But yeah, you
ring a Key's moment, Yeah, ring a Key's moment, queer rude,
(29:15):
anything like that that felt that like sticks out to you.
Speaker 3 (29:20):
I one time, I do think that two gay butch women,
I think they can see that I am gay, and
I think unless you're that I might not seem very
(29:42):
gay but gay butch woman, every gay butch woman is
like my man, and I'm like no, But they were
all right because one time at a party, at an
SNL after party, I spent it's gotta be like I
don't know, it could have been a year, a minute
(30:04):
I'm gonna say, thirty minutes, twenty minutes talking to this
lady who was a butch lesbian, talking talking, talking, talking, talking,
and then I mentioned my husband and it was she
like left, like a puff of smoke, instantly she had disappeared. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (30:26):
I was like, I've been that lady before.
Speaker 3 (30:28):
Yeah, yeah, I was like, was I flirting with this
woman this whole time? I don't think I was, but yeah,
every once in a while, I feel like three times
ever that has happened to me, and it's been just
a butch lesbian and I talked to her too long
and then yeah goes down like that. Yeah, but I yeah,
(30:50):
I think that has happened to me a couple of
times where we're talking, we're talking and oh, this is
something else. Like once I was talking to some woman
who was one of Heather's friends, and she walked me
home from some night out. And she walked me home
(31:11):
and I didn't it didn't occur to me what was happening.
And then she waited while I got my keys out,
and it didn't occur to me what was happening. And
then I was like oh oh oh oh no no no, no,
no no, But I see again, Like I get it.
Speaker 1 (31:30):
I bet god. I hope all these ladies saw your
post and were like, I.
Speaker 3 (31:35):
Know I told her, all, yeah.
Speaker 1 (31:41):
Wow, so you accidentally broke a few hearts prior to this.
I don't think that, hey, it's not it's not your fault.
Queer lady. Hearts get broken real easily, as I'm sure
you know. Now, we get really attached, real real, real fast.
You imagine a whole life and then they say husband,
and then you're like, that's the gift of queer ladies.
(32:03):
We story right really well. And you're a writer, so
you slide right into this. That's right right into this lifestyle. Okay,
this is okay, this is so interesting.
Speaker 2 (32:15):
So what was I'm so excited so as you start,
so you get divorced and then you're like free to
explore this stuff.
Speaker 1 (32:27):
What was the moment Like when you do an Instagram
post and you are a famous lady, you know that
is immediately going to get like picked up by whatever outlet,
and like, so you didn't think.
Speaker 3 (32:43):
That, absolutely not. I thought who's gonna care? But I
did make the post because I was like, you know how,
I just didn't I didn't want to be on the
inside of any homophobic shit, like a little bit of
(33:08):
your little a yucky gay joke, Like I don't want
to be on the other side of that, and I
want you to know that's gonna get like a rebuke
from me. But also like I didn't like how I
don't know, it felt like, you know, how light skinned
(33:28):
black people would be passing, Like it felt like passing
a little bit, And I was like, I don't like
where this is, especially in the way with what our
nation is hurling towards, hurdling, towards.
Speaker 1 (33:45):
Hurdling, hurdling, but it's.
Speaker 3 (33:49):
I think it's herdle jerkling, has hurdle jerkling towards It's
like I couldn't be on the other side of that.
Speaker 1 (33:58):
Yeah, yeah, I get that. Before that post, though, I
assumed there was like telling friends, family stuff like what
what was that sort of who is the very first person?
Who was the first person you're told?
Speaker 3 (34:16):
I got on a dating app, on a queer dating app,
I set my shit to non binary. I found a
person I thought was cute. I sent the person to
Jenny Hagel. Now they don't allow you to take a
picture of you know, the you can't screenshot. You can't
(34:39):
screenshot the app. So I was like, okay, we were
in LA for something for the Emmy Si Zoom and
then I asked Ian Morgan, one of the old writers
on Late Night Seth, to borrow his phone. I took
a picture of the person I was chatting with with
Ian's phone. I sent the picture to Jenny Hagel from
(35:04):
Ian's phone. I deleted the picture from Ian's phone give
the phone back to Ian. A little bit later, Ian goes,
who's the picture that person you put on my phone?
I was like that, No, I get cut.
Speaker 1 (35:19):
Oh no, you're very first attempt at being sneaky. You
immediately got.
Speaker 3 (35:25):
C Yeah, I got cat.
Speaker 1 (35:27):
We didn't grow up with this kind of technology. It's
not hard.
Speaker 3 (35:31):
No, you don't know. I can't screenshot it, and I
should be able.
Speaker 1 (35:34):
So he was technically the first person you accidentally came
out to be.
Speaker 3 (35:41):
Because it's an accident. Poor Ian.
Speaker 1 (35:45):
That's beautiful though. Wow. I know that obviously that that
person whose picture it was can't know, but I wish
that they had some or I assume they can't know,
but I hope that there's like, oh, maybe they do now.
I just hope that that her said, has some whether
it's conscious or unconscious, has some glowing, warm feeling that
(36:07):
like I'm the person.
Speaker 3 (36:13):
Wow, yeah, okay, cool cool duds. I'm a cool dude.
Speaker 1 (36:20):
And so you are. Obviously you're very close to your sister.
You've written books with her, you have the podcast with her.
Oh yeah, I forget. You guys hate each other, but
you're you're bound. You're like Gilbert and Sullivan. You really
don't get along, but creatively you do all this stuff together.
So like you have to. Yeah, that's rough. But in
(36:43):
terms of telling like her, in terms of telling like
your mom, what was like did you do friends first
and like then do family or like I didn't tell
my parents until like everyone else in my life, there
was something what was he?
Speaker 3 (36:59):
I feel like I told everyone, like I don't remember.
I remember kind of remember telling Jenny. But also Jenny
was there through the whole thing where I was like,
got a divorce, cried, I thought I was gonna die,
got better, was fine, then was having fun, and then
(37:23):
got on the apps. So she was there for the
whole thing. So I don't know that I was like Jenny,
I'm gay. I think Jenny was just along for the ride.
Speaker 1 (37:35):
But what's the kid say?
Speaker 3 (37:40):
Yeah, but Lacey, I feel like I had to have told.
Speaker 1 (37:46):
Lacy still doesn't know.
Speaker 3 (37:51):
Oh yeah, I went on a date and Lacey sent
a picture of I sent a picture of the person
I went on a date with, and then Lacey sent
back a picture of our wedding. It's like, Lacey, I
love her, She's so bad. But then I told mom
(38:14):
and dad okay, and mom and dad were like like shocked,
like it was like a like it was like gossip.
They're like, oh gosh.
Speaker 1 (38:32):
Like that they forgot that you were there. They just
got excited about gossip. They got excited about celebrity gossip
and forget that.
Speaker 3 (38:41):
They were very funny and they could give two ships
do not care at all. And I knew it, but
no one cared. I've never had There's nothing less eventful.
I could get braids and it'd be a bigger deal.
Speaker 1 (38:58):
Okay, I got all hairs. Hair is a big very important.
I mean yeah, yeah, hair is real important. Okay, that
that's really nice. I like that it wasn't. I like
that nobody gave you a hard time. I like that
you didn't get any shit. Yeah, I don't know it
(39:21):
all seems it all seems real.
Speaker 3 (39:24):
Good because if you love me, you watched Amber Ruffin show,
And if you watched Amber Ruffin show, you already on board,
you already know what it is. Wow. That's yeah, I
really did myself a favor.
Speaker 1 (39:40):
Wow. Okay, I want is there is there anything?
Speaker 3 (39:47):
Yeah?
Speaker 1 (39:47):
I don't know. Is there anything else that like sticks
out to you that you want to like talk about
or like, were there any did you do the thing
where you go back and you look at your childhood
and you're like, oh, that was super gay. Oh oh
I had a crush on that little person when I
was also a little like anything like that that you
(40:08):
didn't realize at the time, but you sort of retroactively were.
Speaker 3 (40:10):
Like, I never ever ever had a crush on a
woman ever, Yeah.
Speaker 1 (40:16):
Because little kids are definitely not. But when I am little,
leather cuffs and stuff, well, well.
Speaker 3 (40:28):
I did have a leather sweatsuit.
Speaker 1 (40:32):
You had a leather sweatsuit as a as.
Speaker 3 (40:35):
A child, as a fucking five year old child, I
look good as hall but also gay as hell because
it was I'm like, if I.
Speaker 1 (40:43):
Knew that, I wouldn't have been surprised by the Instagram post.
If I knew you as a five year old had
a leather sweat's okay, wow? Yeah.
Speaker 3 (40:50):
And I was also just an outdoor child. I was outdoor,
I was biting, I was daring and taking dares. I
was certainly yeah, certainly one of those.
Speaker 1 (41:02):
Did you get called tomboy a lot?
Speaker 3 (41:04):
Oh yeah?
Speaker 1 (41:05):
And are yeah maybe?
Speaker 3 (41:06):
Oh? Also when I was a kid, I got called
little boy a lot? Oh shit, oh yeas more direct
they thought for sure. I was a little boy for
so many people. So like at the park, give the
ball back to that little boy, here you go. Little
boy happen to me quite.
Speaker 1 (41:24):
A bit, Okay, I mean I also I had like
a bowl cut, and like, I don't remember if I
got called little boy, but I definitely I had the
short hair thing going for like my whole childhood. I
had little little flans hair. Oh as we called it.
This is okay? Well that I mean, does has there
(41:46):
been any kind of have you had any kind of
thoughts about gender? Like earlier when you said non biner
and I thought you were saying that you had check
non biner for yourself. I was like, oh wow, that's
so interesting. That's not what you meant. But has since
coming out in terms of sexuality. A lot of folks
who I talked about this podcast, it's like they have
(42:07):
this realization about their sexuality and then like years later,
start to have realizations about their gender as well, because
it's like once you open one door, then you're like, oh,
there are other doors in here that I didn't know. So, like,
I don't know, you rock suits all the time, but
you've always we were We all wore suits at Boom,
Like you're not gonna do improv in a skirt, Like
(42:27):
that's just not practical. So we were all wearing suits.
Speaker 3 (42:32):
You've always I've always had a closet full of suits.
Speaker 1 (42:35):
Now your suits are like fucking stepped up. Holy shit.
Speaker 3 (42:39):
Now it's some of us buying the suits, so they
look really good.
Speaker 1 (42:43):
There are some fancy yeah suits. Yeah, but like, I
don't know, does that what did that barber call you
your little genemna?
Speaker 3 (42:50):
Ask?
Speaker 1 (42:51):
Yeah, Like, I don't know, is that anything that you
like feel like has been more liberate or something now
that you're I, I.
Speaker 3 (43:03):
Willn't feel like I have any changes in my gender
in any way. Yeah, only because I think I'm too
old for the ideas such a thing.
Speaker 1 (43:20):
I totally get that. I totally yeah.
Speaker 3 (43:23):
And also I don't think I would because the nature
of being like, I'm probably certainly not non binary, but
I'm certainly if there's a scale, I'm not on the
end of it.
Speaker 1 (43:41):
I hear you loud and clear with that.
Speaker 3 (43:44):
By nature of that, then I'm too sloppy and raggedy
to give it to it. Like I'm just too raggedy
to have put such a thing in a category. I'm
busy biting and running.
Speaker 1 (43:59):
You are really busy.
Speaker 3 (44:01):
Hook and snakes at people like that. That's the child
I was.
Speaker 1 (44:08):
You gotta hook it snakes scamber. Is there anything else
that you want to talk about that you want to
say pertaining to queer stuff, pertaining to queer adjacent stuff,
like what what is it like talking about this? Is
it like fun and exciting? Or is it still like scary?
(44:32):
And is it what? What is it like? This is
I'm so honored that you would talk about this? Is
ever outlets try to get you to.
Speaker 3 (44:42):
You're the only person who cares. Yes, you me and
Sophia Bush. End of list.
Speaker 1 (44:50):
Oh my god, that's right you. I saw that picture
of you with Sophia. But Sophia Bush will be my
future wife. I understand that she's in a very serious,
committed relationship right now, but at some point and I
will wed. So I was a little jealous when I
saw that picture of you too, but so she cared.
(45:11):
Sophia and buch.
Speaker 3 (45:12):
Care we were like late life lesbians unite. Yeah, yeah,
very cute.
Speaker 1 (45:19):
Wow, okay, that's so interesting. Well I whatsapped Alice when
I saw your post, because she's not on Instagram that much,
and I was like, Alice, did you know about this?
Did you see this? And she was like no, what,
Oh my god? So she cared. Alice is our friend
in Amsterdam. So I just want you to know that
(45:41):
there are some of us who who were surprised, delighted
and wanted I wanted you to do an interview. So
even if the magazines aren't, the paparazzi isn't hunting you down,
Flans was I want to talk to Amber about this?
Speaker 3 (45:59):
Yay? Oh good, you got me? I got you? Yeah. Yeah, yeah,
it's fun. It seems like it's the easiest thing of
all time. I mean, nothing has been easier than this.
I also thought it I could. I just couldn't find
(46:24):
you know, because if you come out, there's supposed to
be some kind of difficulty. I couldn't find it, and
I was like, well, at some point I'm really going
to have to endure the tribulations that are gay brothers
and sisters and siblings have had to answer. And don't
(46:45):
nobody give two fucking shits. It's the most uneventful thing
that has ever happened.
Speaker 1 (46:53):
Yeah, I'm really fucking glad that that's been your experience. Yeah,
I've I have talked to several well, I've talked to
a lot of people on this podcast who have felt
like not necessarily guilty, but they're like, I thought this
is gonna be hard and traumatic and like because we
all grew up with those like very special episodes where
it's like a character has like a three episode arc
(47:15):
where it's like Blossom's gay friend, and then they come
out and they get kicked out of their house and
then like by the third episode it's like bye, you've
ever seen them again. So I think a lot of
us do feel like if we don't face some of
the shittiness, it's like, I don't know, like not as
(47:37):
valid or like or like we feel guilty a little bit.
But there's no precedent for that other than society having
been shitty in the past, and it is getting better.
I mean, you know, it's real divided right now. So
parts of it are a lot worse, but parts of it,
like the parts that you and I are lucky enough
(47:59):
to live and are way way way better. And so
I think a lot of folks, especially coming out now,
are really lucky that they're not having that shitty experience.
And if people can bypass that, fuck, yeah, Like that's
that's what the ancestors want. You want people to be
(48:19):
having better experiences than they Yeah.
Speaker 3 (48:21):
I feel like if you're an old woman in comedy,
which I am, if you're black, which I also am,
then you did it. You did it. You had to.
You had to get all the bad stuff, you had
to endure it. People were crazy, they talk SI all
(48:42):
the fucking time, and then to have this one neat
thing that was supposed to be terrible, It's like someone
else already did that, someone like easy for me, sure,
but somebody was out here, you know, as a comedian,
hosting shows and shit and podcasting, and their gay ass
(49:07):
got it. And because they got it, I don't have to.
So like I see that, and I think it's pretty
cool because lord knows, I took it for a lot
of people.
Speaker 1 (49:18):
Yeah, yeah, well that's I mean, I'm looking at your
posts again and I really like you ended it, you said,
and I can't wait to be discriminated again for a
new reason. So very funny. But I'm really glad that that.
I'm glad that didn't happen.
Speaker 3 (49:33):
Yeah, still waiting. Don't worry.
Speaker 1 (49:35):
I'll come, I mean probably, but you know, if you
ever check. I'm sure if you ever check any of
those hidden folders on social.
Speaker 5 (49:44):
Media, I don't, but just don't. Don't do that, and
it may never come.
Speaker 3 (49:49):
I'm gonna check it, Dodge.
Speaker 1 (49:52):
You'll get some real nice ones. Some you inspired me
and I told my parents because of you, and you
let me know I could be myself. Hey, I guess
a real bad one. That's the beauty.
Speaker 3 (50:02):
Are you sure you don't want this? And it's a
picture of a dick?
Speaker 1 (50:05):
Yeah, you'll probably get some pictures. Probably anyone who texts
their secret folder is going to get pictures of dicks. Okay, Well, Amber,
where and how can the people find you? You have
so much? You have books out there, you have a podcast,
which I guessed on you have you have moving pictures
(50:27):
on the TV that people can look at every week.
Where can folks follow you and write your inspirational messages?
Speaker 3 (50:35):
People can? Yeah, they should be writing me messages. People
can find me at Amber Ruffin across all social media things.
I assume I shouldn't have said. I assume I think
that's true.
Speaker 1 (50:50):
If you search Amber Ruffin, you will. You're gonna come up.
I've done this and that you come.
Speaker 3 (50:54):
Up, so you'll find me and there.
Speaker 1 (50:57):
Fine, Yeah, find Amber. And can you say the name
of your and Lacey's books on your podcast?
Speaker 3 (51:04):
Lacey and I have two books called You'll Never Believe
What Happened To Lacey? Crazy Stories about Racism, and then
the second one is called World Record Book of Racist Stories.
Our podcast is called The Amber and Lacy, Lacey and
Amber Show. I'm on Late Night with Seth Myers. I'm
on Have I Got News for You? Which is a
Shewan CNN and that can be found the next day
(51:26):
on Max. And that's probably everything.
Speaker 1 (51:31):
And you're the Purple Eminem and I'm the Purple Eminem.
Speaker 3 (51:33):
That's true.
Speaker 1 (51:34):
So you can find Amber anywhere you eat em and
M's Amber thank you so much for talking to me
about those Thank you for letting me know that, like,
I'm glad that the lesbians of Boom didn't let you
down as a community, and just they're just worried, they're
(51:55):
just weren't those people around. But we were lesbian and
pretty good in your face at Boom. So I feel
okay good. I was. I was worried we didn't lesbian
hard enough, but we pretty hard. Realisbe had pretty hard? Okay?
I am at Lauren Flans on Twitter, Lauren Underscore Flanns
on Instagram, podcast is at Coming Out pod everywhere. This
(52:19):
has been the three hundredth episode, y'all. Holy crap, thank
you for listening all these three hundred years. That's not
how it works, but you know what I mean. This
will also be the last episode of the year. Not
good yeah, yeah, America. It's the last episode of America.
(52:41):
Have a good holiday season, have a good New Year's
And I don't know the next time I'll be in
your ear holes, but you'll know because suddenly you'll hear
my voice and you'll be like, oh, Lauren's back in
my ear holes.
Speaker 3 (52:55):
Havever you We did it.
Speaker 1 (53:01):
Bye.
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