August 6, 2025 • 23 mins
What if everything you thought about building community around your podcast was incomplete? Paul Gowder, founder of PowWows.com and host of multiple podcasts, including "OTW with Paul," shatters common misconceptions about community building in this eye-opening conversation.
The secret to fostering genuine connection doesn't lie in fancy Facebook groups or Discord servers alone. As Paul reveals, "Community is everybody that feels a part of your group, your movement, and feels some type of connection to you and each other." This broader understanding transforms how creators approach audience relationships across all touchpoints. Drawing from his journey as an "accidental entrepreneur" who has built a thriving community since 1996, Paul shares practical wisdom applicable to podcasters at any stage.
At the heart of effective community building lies intentional communication. Whether crafting podcast episodes, emails, or social content, speaking directly to one person creates an intimate experience that resonates deeply. "When you're podcasting, speak like you're speaking to one person... don't start the show with 'Hey everybody.' Talk directly to one person; make them feel like it's just a conversation between the two of you." This approach mirrors radio fundamentals while acknowledging the uniquely personal nature of podcasting.
Most creators falter by limiting their vision of community to specific platforms or following formulaic content strategies. Paul challenges us to focus where our audience naturally engages rather than spreading ourselves thin across every platform. His evolution from flashy, impersonal newsletters to conversational emails demonstrates how authentic communication outperforms algorithm-chasing tactics every time. The conversation offers both a strategic framework and tactical advice for transforming your podcast from content delivery into community cultivation.
Ready to transform your approach to audience building? Visit paulgetter.com/email-tools to discover how Paul grew his email list to over 100,000 engaged subscribers, and take the first step toward creating genuine connection with your listeners.
Got a question about something you heard today? Have a great suggestion for a topic or know someone who should be a guest? Reach out to us:
askcarl@carlspeaks.ca
If you're ready to take the plunge and join the over 3 million people who have joined the podcast space, we'd love to hear your idea and help you get started! Book your Podcast Strategy Session today:
https://podcastsolutionsmadesimple.com/get-started/
Never miss an episode! Subscribe wherever you get your podcast by clicking here:
https://communicationconnectioncommunity.buzzsprout.com
Follow us on LinkedIn:
https://www.linkedin.com/company/podcast-solutions-made-simple
Follow us on Instagram:
https://www.instagram.com/podcastsolutionsmadesimple/
Follow us on Facebook:
www.facebook.com/groups/podcastlaunchmadesimple
Follow us on Twitter:
https://twitter.com/carlrichards72
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Carl (00:04):
Welcome to Communication Connection Community the
podcaster's podcast.
This podcast takes a deep diveinto modern day communication
strategies in the podcastingspace.
We chat with interesting peoplewho make the podcasting and
speaking spaces exciting andvibrant.
We also dive into thepodcasting community with news
(00:24):
updates, latest trends andtopics from this ever-evolving
space.
So strap in, it's going to beone amazing ride.
Let's dive into today's episode, Paul.
Welcome to the podcast.
Paul (00:41):
Oh, thanks so much.
I really appreciate the time.
Carl (00:43):
It is always a pleasure to talk to a fellow podcaster,
somebody who gets it, shall wesay when we're sitting behind
the mic and doing things,creating content, attracting
audiences.
It's fantastic to talk to you.
You have more than one podcast,though, so tell me about the
two podcasts that you have.
Paul (01:01):
Yeah, so I have one that I do with the PowWows.
com side.
So I have one called PowWowLife and that's just a way for
me to share some of the thingsthat I get to do with PowWows.
com.
So I get to meet some reallycool people and go some places,
so that's a chance to share somereally cool interviews.
Like, we just went to Alaskaand got to do some tours up
(01:21):
there with some native folks, soI shared some of that.
And then the other one is one Ijust started recently and
that's OTW with Paul and that isa podcast where I'm hoping to
help entrepreneurs get on theway to developing the lifestyle
they want to lead throughleveling up their businesses.
Carl (01:37):
I don't think it's a matter of hoping, Paul.
I think it's a matter of justknowing where our discussion is
going to go today.
It will be successful, becauseI think so many people
definitely need to to get onthat path, to get on their
journey.
So let's talk about so.
First off, congratulations,Thank you.
Not one podcast, but two.
I've talked to people who havethree and four.
I'm like how do you do it?
When do you run your business?
(01:58):
When is there time for that?
But anyways, congratulations,Paul.
It's so great to have you heretoday.
Tell me about your journey.
How did you get to where youare today?
Paul (02:06):
You know I started building PowWows.
com back in 1996 when I was ingrad school.
Never intended to be a business, it was just playing with the
whole web, building web pages,you know, experimenting with
stuff.
I say I'm an accidentalentrepreneur because I didn't
intend for this to go to whereit was, but it was a community
(02:27):
right.
When I started building thosefirst few pages that I did, I
started getting emails andmessages from people saying they
wanted to be able to interactwith each other.
They wanted to be able to share, they wanted that, the same
feeling they have at a PowWowwhich that community and being
together.
They wanted that online too.
So we we added forums andreally embraced that community
aspect and it just took off fromthere.
Carl (02:47):
Yeah, and I'm glad you touched on the part about
community.
That's what we will be talkingabout today, and it's funny how
you two mentioned the accidentalentrepreneur.
I think there are a lot ofpeople who fall into that
category.
They're between careers orsomething happens and they go.
I'm going to just do this for awhile and it ends up becoming a
business, and they don't.
How did that happen?
Right?
It's like I have a love of music, I'm going to collect records
(03:10):
and see, and then it ends upbecoming a business or something
like that.
Yeah, you never, know.
Yeah, you just never know whenthose opportunities are going to
, when they're going to land andhow they're going to take shape
.
Certainly, embrace them, as youhave done.
Let's dive right into and talkabout community, because I know
this is a place where you shine.
You're an expert in this and Ithink that as we engage in the
(03:30):
discussion, it'll also bring usto your second podcast, because
it's especially in thepodcasting space, which is
another reason why I'm gladyou're here today, because
you're a podcaster, you'll getthis is.
It's not just about the show.
It's about the building ofcommunity outside of the show.
So tell me about some of thecommunity building blocks or
(03:50):
things that people need torealize as they're thinking
about, you know, leveling up tothe phase or whatever that is
with their show.
Paul (03:59):
What I see a lot of people doing now is thinking that
community is only in a Facebookgroup or on your website or your
Patreon, or you know that it'sthis group of people here, and
community is just anybody whofeels connected to you or
connected to your messaging.
Right, if they feel likethey're a part of what you're
(04:19):
doing, they're part of yourcommunity.
So you know, that's the firstthing I tell people is.
However, you're touching youraudience whether it's through a
podcast, through email, through,you know, blog posts all of
that needs to be written anddone in a way that you're
thinking about community, right?
Don't just be shouting amessage or feel like a lot of
times, like Twitter is justpeople shouting stuff out, right
(04:41):
?
You have to embrace that ideathat you're talking to somebody
in your community, that you'rehaving this exchange, no matter
where you are, and that willreally help.
If you start thinking everypiece of your content is
building community, then youstart really embracing that
community feel.
Carl (05:00):
I think you hit the nail right on the head there when you
said every piece of yourcontent.
So it starts with the content.
Is your content designed insuch a way that it even it
attracts the community that youwant, or are you attracting
listeners who are just literallywaiting to be?
Paul (05:15):
entertained also been a business mentor of mine, Lou
Mangiello.
He does WDW radio, great Disneypodcast out there, and he he
always says that you know, likewhen you're podcasting, when
you're creating that type ofcontent, speak to like you're
speaking to one person.
You know, don't start the showoff.
(05:36):
Hey, everybody, it's great tobe here with you all.
You know it's talk directly toone person, make them feel like
it's just a conversation betweenthe two of you, and that will
go a long way.
You know.
Same thing if you're doing alive show on Facebook, you're
not talking to.
(05:56):
You know you're not in front ofsome big stage at a conference,
you're talking directly to oneperson.
So you know, recognize peopleby name, engage with them when
you see their comments orwhatever.
You've got to really work thatone-on-one relationship and then
your community will really,really feel like they're a part
of what you're doing.
Carl (06:11):
I'm glad you mentioned that, because that's radio 101.
It's one of the things in my 25years in broadcasting I learned
very early on yes, you might berealistically, you're speaking
to thousands of listeners butyou don't say, hey, thousands of
listeners out there on radioland.
It's that one-on-one connectionbecause when people are
listening to you just in theradio sense, it's companionship.
(06:34):
It's companionship, it'sentertainment, it's all of those
things.
But if you really want toengage someone, it needs to be
that personal connection.
It applies to the stage as well, the physical stage.
If you're giving a talk, youdon't say, okay, everyone put up
their hands.
If, raise your hand if.
And you physically do that aswell, you physically raise your
(06:55):
hand because there's the powerbehind monkey.
See, monkey do If I put up myhand, there's a good chance
you're going to do it too.
If I say raise your hand if orwhen or whatever the wording is,
but you're right to do it too.
If I say raise your hand if orwhen or whatever the wording is,
but you're right.
That personal connection rightfrom the beginning, within your
content, it is crucial and it'ssomething that I think
podcasters miss.
They miss the mark with thatand they think that, or there's
(07:16):
this perception that if I justthrow my content out there,
people will listen regardless.
That's just not true.
Paul (07:24):
Yeah, that's, yeah, it's so, and I feel like podcasting
is such you're in somebody's ear, whether they're in their car
or at the gym or whatever.
It can be a very intimateexperience between you and your
listener, so you've got to treatit like that.
Don't treat it like you're, youknow, like you said, you know,
on a stage or something.
Carl (07:41):
This is a one-on-one conversation you're having in
your podcast and yeah, you gotto embrace it that way, but
engage them where they are aswell.
I've often done that.
I've said and again, this isback to the days when I worked
on the radio If you're drivingright now and you're heading
East on such and such, expectdelays because right so it's
(08:03):
like oh, okay, and if you're notdriving, it's okay, you tune it
out, but you keep that in mindjust in case for later you are
driving that route, or, asyou're constantly driving people
with that personal connection.
That, I think, is the firststep to building your community,
Because I think people want tofind out more about you and what
(08:25):
makes you tick, and not justmore about you.
But why you?
Especially if it's a businesstype podcast.
Why should I follow you?
Why should I do business withyou there?
Or why should it be a part ofyour community?
Why should I be a part of your?
You know your movement.
It's not because you're, youknow, a good looking person and
you sound good.
No, it's because you havesomething of value to offer me
(08:48):
and you're talking to.
You're talking to me.
Paul (08:52):
Yeah, I do a lot of talk on on email marketing and
helping people build their emailrelationships.
There's a thousand people outthere that can give you the same
answers that I might give you.
But yeah, you're looking forwhat is your experience, what's
your take on it?
How have you done it?
You know what's your uniqueflavor.
One of the things I've beenworking with some clients and I
(09:14):
said every piece of content thatis one thing I tell people like
in email, in my weeklynewsletters, with PowWows.
com at the top of all the emailsis my chance to interact with
them personally, and so I writein the first person, I ask
questions directly to them.
I'm really talking thatone-on-one thing, even in email,
and it works so well and it wasawesome.
(09:36):
And we were up in Oregon thispast weekend at a PowWow and I
had several people come up andsay, oh my gosh, I watched you
on, you know, on your podcast,and they're like, ah, it's so
good to finally meet you and youknow they already felt like
they had that relationship withme.
It was.
That was a really coolexperience to to see the people
come up and actually say that,to see the people come up and
actually say that that was cool.
Carl (09:56):
So let's get to some of the nitty gritty.
Then Give me what yourdefinition of community is.
How would you define it?
Paul (10:08):
For me, community is everybody that feels a part of
your group, your movement, andfeel some type of connection to
you and each other.
So with PowWows.
com, that is everybody who,whether they're engaged with our
Facebook, our email, ourYouTube videos, our live streams
, whatever if they feel likethey are a part of you and
connect with you in some way,then they're part of your
community.
Carl (10:28):
How do you go about building that community then?
What were some of the earliersteps that you and I know this
goes beyond the podcast, butthinking of podcasters too, but
just in general, what were someof the earlier steps that you
and I know this goes beyond thepodcast, but thinking of
podcasters too, but just ingeneral, what were some of the
steps that you had to take tobuild that community?
Paul (10:42):
You know, early on, it's recognizing what type of what is
your audience looking for.
How do they want to engage,what is it that they need
answers to?
And when you deliver that tothem, then they will start to.
You know, oh, oh, he is talkingto me.
Okay, in the early days it wasfor for PowWows.
com.
(11:02):
It was literally just givingthem a platform to talk, right,
and a lot of times it was just Ijust had to get out of the way
because what they wanted was tobe able to exchange with each
other.
Once I figured out how to dothat and the technology back in
1996, it was a lot different.
But once we presented them witha platform, it's like hey, look
, you can talk with each other,you can make these posts and
(11:24):
have replies and have thesechats.
Then they felt like they were apart of that group.
Later on, after social mediadid that part for us, it was
figuring out okay, well, what isit more in depth, what are you
looking for?
If we answer your questionsabout going to a powwow, if we
provide you with a calendar ofevents, there's your content and
(11:45):
we can start developing, youknow, and answering those
questions, answering those needs, and again they start feeling
like they're part of it, becauseyou are delivering what they
want.
Carl (11:54):
So, as you're building your community, then and you're
posing some great questions hereas you're going are you asking
these questions of yourcommunity?
What is it that you want?
Are you taking surveys or doing, you know, checking in to see
what their needs are now andmaybe what their needs might be
moving forward?
Paul (12:10):
Yeah, you know I used to do a yearly survey and it was an
expensive thing and it was.
You know.
I printed out this hundreds ofpages and I'd scroll through it.
Now, because you know it'ssocial media, I get those kind
of answers and comments easierand more frequently.
Now it's just I can listen tothe audience when they post
something.
But yeah, I'm still like emails.
I ask all the time.
(12:30):
You know what are yourquestions.
I have a email sequence thatgoes through what to expect at
your first powwow for people whoaren't really in the culture
and kind of want to go andexperience it for the first time
.
And the last email in thatsequence is okay, I've given you
all this information.
What's holding you back now?
What is that one thing that'spreventing you from going to
(12:52):
that PowWow?
What else can I do for you toget you to go and have that
first experience?
And then I get some responsesto that and maybe then I go back
and rework the email sequence.
Maybe then I can go and answerthose questions better and
figure out what I didn't deliver.
Yeah, asking those questions isa great way to then build more
content.
Carl (13:11):
What are some of the things that you've noticed along
the way as you built yourcommunity, but then, as you've
seen others or even helpedothers build up theirs, what are
some of the stumbling blocksthat people encounter in that
space?
Paul (13:23):
For me, I've had to remind myself of that same.
What I talked about earlier isthe messaging and delivering,
talking directly to people.
I've failed at that.
When I first started doingemail at first I was just using
our forums to deliver email topeople and then when I started
doing my email newsletter, forthe first few years it looked
like a Sunday morning salespaper.
(13:44):
It was really fancy, flashy,lots of colors, these nice
layouts and it was really mejust bombarding people with
information and sure it got someclicks and it got traffic or
whatever.
But when I switched over towriting emails in the first
person and more text-based andbeing more relationship-driven,
(14:04):
my email took off right.
It became a huge part of whatwe do.
So that's one of the things Ithink you just need to remind
yourself.
Going back to what I saidearlier every piece of content
how can you deliver it in a waythat it's going to make people
feel like they're part of you?
You know we do the same thingon when we're writing articles.
If I'm working with writers orwhatever, you know, I tell them
(14:24):
we're not Wikipedia, right?
We're not trying to write somekind of textbook type article,
even though we may be covering ahistorical topic or you know a
profile of somebody.
It needs to be written likeit's a conversation, a
one-on-one, you know, and youcan say things in there like oh
my gosh, I really like this andI think you will too, you know.
(14:49):
Or oh my, oh, I just learnedthis, let me tell you more about
it.
You can use that type oflanguage in your articles.
That's one of the things I thinka lot of people struggle with.
But then again, too, I see somany people again just relying
on a Facebook group to be theircommunity and not really
embracing that whole communityis everywhere thing.
I have a Facebook group, I havea couple PowWows.
com for and that's one of thoseplaces.
(15:11):
I just get out of the way mostof the time and I just let
people that's just a place forthem to engage with each other.
I don't even look at thatanymore as an active part of how
I go and engage with theaudience.
It's just so much noise inthere, right.
So you've got to find a waythat you can interact with your
audience and what's the bestplatform to do that?
What's the best, and thenembrace that and work on that
(15:34):
and maybe, like me, maybe yourgroup is very active and has
lots of stuff going on, but thatmay not be the best way that
you engage with the communityright?
It just may be their communityplace to go and hang out.
Carl (15:45):
I guess also with social media, we've learned and if we
haven't learned we've beenasleep that there's so many
rules or algorithms orlimitations or whatever it is
that make it challenging to havethat as a space, that it's so
many rules or algorithms orlimitations or whatever it is
that make it challenging to havethat as a space, that it's a
you know, let's face it allsocial media platforms they need
to make money.
Yes, they want to make money.
(16:05):
That's why they are there.
They are business, so they'regoing to engage or allow you to
engage, limited, in a limitedfashion, or have those views or
likes or shares or discussionsor whatever.
Because of that, right.
So, but I like how you, how youshared that it's not just one
spot, it community is everywhere, and I think that's one of the
(16:26):
pieces that we miss is we thinkthat, oh, I need to.
You know, if I want to buildcommunity, I need to have a
Facebook group or I need to havea whatever here, and I need to,
and that's all I need to do.
A lot of people see.
Paul (16:39):
Their first experience with PowWows.
com now is our live streams.
We stream 20 to 30 PowWows livea year, and so I have a lot of
people that they watch our livestreams and don't realize what
else we do.
And so if you only think ofyour Facebook group or you only
think of your Patreon orwhatever it is, as your
community, you're losing a wholegroup of people out there.
(17:00):
You know, all the time I havepeople write me and go oh my God
, I loved your live stream.
But you know I'm looking forthis information and I'll say,
well, hey, we have this pageright here.
We answer all those questionsand they're like oh my God, I
didn't know you had all thisRight.
Remember that because ofalgorithms and all this other
crazy stuff, people may only beseeing this much of your whole
ecosystem, but they still feel apart of your community, so make
(17:23):
sure you get them wherever theyare.
Carl (17:27):
I think the first step, too, that we talked about
earlier and that we mentioned, Ithink, more than once in our
conversation, is, if you're atthe starting gate, think of your
content first.
If you think, oh, it's time tobuild community, or I haven't
built community, it starts withthe content itself.
Right Bar none, it starts withcontent.
Paul (17:45):
Yes, yeah, and write that content for a conversation.
Yes.
Carl (17:49):
And that's the part too that I wanted to mention was the
writing for the ear versuswriting for the eye.
We are so trained to write forthe eye.
We're taught in school, wewrite essays and book reports
and later on theses and thingslike that.
That's writing for the eye andwe're really good at it.
But when it comes to writingconversationally unless you've
(18:10):
studied radio broadcasting orsome type of media which I have
or understand a conversationaltone it's tricky when you're
getting started to do that or wethink that, or what we think is
conversational really isn't.
And sometimes people read myemails, even ones that I send
personally, and they'll thinkI'm sitting right there because
(18:31):
I write conversationally almostto a fault all the time when
you're writing content for yourwebsite.
Paul (18:38):
So many people now are writing for Google, and Google
is even now come out and saidstop doing that.
Right.
Your content needs to behelpful and answer the reader's
questions or queries or why theywent to you.
Right.
You need to be really focusingon delivering the value to them,
not writing for SEO, and someof my site got hit by some of
(19:01):
these Google changes too, and weall have to figure out how we,
you know, engage with ourreaders better and stop writing
just for these search engines.
Carl (19:09):
Yeah, seo is important, but it's not, it's not the be
all end all.
Let's face it.
Yes, google is a big company,but it's not the only company,
and it shouldn't be just well,google says, do this, well,
that's nice.
If Google said, jump off acliff, you probably wouldn't do
it Right.
So so you really need to thinkabout what it is that your goal
(19:30):
is.
And and also, yes, of course,you can't ignore the fact that
that the SEO is important, butagain, the language, the you
know playing within the rules orwithin the boundaries, but then
also it still has to serve.
Not only serve you as thebusiness owner, but if you're
building community, it has toserve your community.
(19:52):
It can't just be for SEOpurposes.
Yeah, exactly, wow, paul, Icould probably talk to you for
the next hundred years aboutthis, but I think we've done a
really good job at establishingsome credibility with the
importance of building communityand some of the keys to get
started.
So you've got some greatresources, though that our
(20:15):
listeners, I know, would love tohear, so share with us about
that resources though, that ourlisteners I know would love to
hear, so share with us aboutthat.
Paul (20:23):
You know, like I talked about email for PowWows.
com, I feel like email is reallythe heart of our community now.
It's where I am able to talkone-on-one to people and not
worry about algorithms.
So if you're looking to levelup your email, I've got some
resources on how I grow my emaillist.
So paulgetter.
com/ email tools and I'll showyou some of the tips and tricks
that I do to grow my email listto now over a hundred thousand
(20:43):
subscribers.
Carl (20:44):
Wow, phenomenal.
And we'll make sure that thatlink and your other social links
as well.
Any other relevant links are inthe show notes.
Paul Getter, it's been afantastic discussion today.
Before I turn you loose toexpand your community or start
another podcast, I'll leave youwith the final thought, my
(21:08):
friend.
Paul (21:09):
Final thought is you know, I think community is so
important and so many people outthere are trying to figure out
these algorithms and buildingtheir content and putting their
content on every single platformand, you know, just feel like a
shotgun approach to socialmedia.
I want to tell people really toniche down and figure out where
your audience is.
If your audience is reallyengaging with your content on
(21:29):
LinkedIn, right, if that's yourplace, then put your time and
effort there.
Stop worrying about that.
Well, everybody tells me I haveto post on Facebook.
Well, if you're not getting anyengagement there and your
community is not there, don't doit.
Right, focus on where yourcommunity is.
Put your time and effort there.
You don't have to be everywhere.
Sure, that's a valid strategyor whatever.
(21:50):
But if your audience is on aplatform, really engage with
them there, double down on itand watch it grow from there.
Carl (21:59):
And, as you're watching it , grow, have fun doing it and
engage Paul.
It's been a phenomenalconversation.
Thank you so much for being myguest today.
Paul (22:05):
Thank you, sir.
I really appreciate it.
I've enjoyed the conversation.
Carl (22:08):
And thank you for joining us today.
Special thanks to our producerand production lead, Dom Carillo
, our music guru, Nathan Simon,and the person who works the
arms all of our arms, actuallymy trusty assistant, Stephanie
Gafoor.
If you like what you heardtoday, leave us a comment and a
review, and be sure to share itwith your friends.
(22:29):
If you don't like what youheard, please share it with your
enemies.
Oh, and if you have asuggestion of someone who you
think would make an amazingguest on the show, let us know
about it.
Drop us an email, askcarl@carlspeaks.
ca.
Don't forget to follow us onLinkedIn and Twitter as well.
You'll find all those links inthe show notes, and if you're
ready to take the plunge andjoin the over 3 million people
who have said yes to podcasting,let's have a conversation.
(22:51):
We'll show you the simplest wayto get into the podcasting
space, because, after all, we'repodcast solutions made simple.
We'll catch you next time.
Welcome to Communication Connection Community the
podcaster's podcast.
This podcast takes a deep diveinto modern day communication
strategies in the podcastingspace.
We chat with interesting peoplewho make the podcasting and
speaking spaces exciting andvibrant.
We also dive into thepodcasting community with news
(00:24):
updates, latest trends andtopics from this ever-evolving
space.
So strap in, it's going to beone amazing ride.
Let's dive into today's episode, Paul.
Welcome to the podcast.
Paul (00:41):
Oh, thanks so much.
I really appreciate the time.
Carl (00:43):
It is always a pleasure to talk to a fellow podcaster,
somebody who gets it, shall wesay when we're sitting behind
the mic and doing things,creating content, attracting
audiences.
It's fantastic to talk to you.
You have more than one podcast,though, so tell me about the
two podcasts that you have.
Paul (01:01):
Yeah, so I have one that I do with the PowWows.
com side.
So I have one called PowWowLife and that's just a way for
me to share some of the thingsthat I get to do with PowWows.
com.
So I get to meet some reallycool people and go some places,
so that's a chance to share somereally cool interviews.
Like, we just went to Alaskaand got to do some tours up
(01:21):
there with some native folks, soI shared some of that.
And then the other one is one Ijust started recently and
that's OTW with Paul and that isa podcast where I'm hoping to
help entrepreneurs get on theway to developing the lifestyle
they want to lead throughleveling up their businesses.
Carl (01:37):
I don't think it's a matter of hoping, Paul.
I think it's a matter of justknowing where our discussion is
going to go today.
It will be successful, becauseI think so many people
definitely need to to get onthat path, to get on their
journey.
So let's talk about so.
First off, congratulations,Thank you.
Not one podcast, but two.
I've talked to people who havethree and four.
I'm like how do you do it?
When do you run your business?
(01:58):
When is there time for that?
But anyways, congratulations,Paul.
It's so great to have you heretoday.
Tell me about your journey.
How did you get to where youare today?
Paul (02:06):
You know I started building PowWows.
com back in 1996 when I was ingrad school.
Never intended to be a business, it was just playing with the
whole web, building web pages,you know, experimenting with
stuff.
I say I'm an accidentalentrepreneur because I didn't
intend for this to go to whereit was, but it was a community
(02:27):
right.
When I started building thosefirst few pages that I did, I
started getting emails andmessages from people saying they
wanted to be able to interactwith each other.
They wanted to be able to share, they wanted that, the same
feeling they have at a PowWowwhich that community and being
together.
They wanted that online too.
So we we added forums andreally embraced that community
aspect and it just took off fromthere.
Carl (02:47):
Yeah, and I'm glad you touched on the part about
community.
That's what we will be talkingabout today, and it's funny how
you two mentioned the accidentalentrepreneur.
I think there are a lot ofpeople who fall into that
category.
They're between careers orsomething happens and they go.
I'm going to just do this for awhile and it ends up becoming a
business, and they don't.
How did that happen?
Right?
It's like I have a love of music, I'm going to collect records
(03:10):
and see, and then it ends upbecoming a business or something
like that.
Yeah, you never, know.
Yeah, you just never know whenthose opportunities are going to
, when they're going to land andhow they're going to take shape
.
Certainly, embrace them, as youhave done.
Let's dive right into and talkabout community, because I know
this is a place where you shine.
You're an expert in this and Ithink that as we engage in the
(03:30):
discussion, it'll also bring usto your second podcast, because
it's especially in thepodcasting space, which is
another reason why I'm gladyou're here today, because
you're a podcaster, you'll getthis is.
It's not just about the show.
It's about the building ofcommunity outside of the show.
So tell me about some of thecommunity building blocks or
(03:50):
things that people need torealize as they're thinking
about, you know, leveling up tothe phase or whatever that is
with their show.
Paul (03:59):
What I see a lot of people doing now is thinking that
community is only in a Facebookgroup or on your website or your
Patreon, or you know that it'sthis group of people here, and
community is just anybody whofeels connected to you or
connected to your messaging.
Right, if they feel likethey're a part of what you're
(04:19):
doing, they're part of yourcommunity.
So you know, that's the firstthing I tell people is.
However, you're touching youraudience whether it's through a
podcast, through email, through,you know, blog posts all of
that needs to be written anddone in a way that you're
thinking about community, right?
Don't just be shouting amessage or feel like a lot of
times, like Twitter is justpeople shouting stuff out, right
(04:41):
?
You have to embrace that ideathat you're talking to somebody
in your community, that you'rehaving this exchange, no matter
where you are, and that willreally help.
If you start thinking everypiece of your content is
building community, then youstart really embracing that
community feel.
Carl (05:00):
I think you hit the nail right on the head there when you
said every piece of yourcontent.
So it starts with the content.
Is your content designed insuch a way that it even it
attracts the community that youwant, or are you attracting
listeners who are just literallywaiting to be?
Paul (05:15):
entertained also been a business mentor of mine, Lou
Mangiello.
He does WDW radio, great Disneypodcast out there, and he he
always says that you know, likewhen you're podcasting, when
you're creating that type ofcontent, speak to like you're
speaking to one person.
You know, don't start the showoff.
(05:36):
Hey, everybody, it's great tobe here with you all.
You know it's talk directly toone person, make them feel like
it's just a conversation betweenthe two of you, and that will
go a long way.
You know.
Same thing if you're doing alive show on Facebook, you're
not talking to.
(05:56):
You know you're not in front ofsome big stage at a conference,
you're talking directly to oneperson.
So you know, recognize peopleby name, engage with them when
you see their comments orwhatever.
You've got to really work thatone-on-one relationship and then
your community will really,really feel like they're a part
of what you're doing.
Carl (06:11):
I'm glad you mentioned that, because that's radio 101.
It's one of the things in my 25years in broadcasting I learned
very early on yes, you might berealistically, you're speaking
to thousands of listeners butyou don't say, hey, thousands of
listeners out there on radioland.
It's that one-on-one connectionbecause when people are
listening to you just in theradio sense, it's companionship.
(06:34):
It's companionship, it'sentertainment, it's all of those
things.
But if you really want toengage someone, it needs to be
that personal connection.
It applies to the stage as well, the physical stage.
If you're giving a talk, youdon't say, okay, everyone put up
their hands.
If, raise your hand if.
And you physically do that aswell, you physically raise your
(06:55):
hand because there's the powerbehind monkey.
See, monkey do If I put up myhand, there's a good chance
you're going to do it too.
If I say raise your hand if orwhen or whatever the wording is,
but you're right to do it too.
If I say raise your hand if orwhen or whatever the wording is,
but you're right.
That personal connection rightfrom the beginning, within your
content, it is crucial and it'ssomething that I think
podcasters miss.
They miss the mark with thatand they think that, or there's
(07:16):
this perception that if I justthrow my content out there,
people will listen regardless.
That's just not true.
Paul (07:24):
Yeah, that's, yeah, it's so, and I feel like podcasting
is such you're in somebody's ear, whether they're in their car
or at the gym or whatever.
It can be a very intimateexperience between you and your
listener, so you've got to treatit like that.
Don't treat it like you're, youknow, like you said, you know,
on a stage or something.
Carl (07:41):
This is a one-on-one conversation you're having in
your podcast and yeah, you gotto embrace it that way, but
engage them where they are aswell.
I've often done that.
I've said and again, this isback to the days when I worked
on the radio If you're drivingright now and you're heading
East on such and such, expectdelays because right so it's
(08:03):
like oh, okay, and if you're notdriving, it's okay, you tune it
out, but you keep that in mindjust in case for later you are
driving that route, or, asyou're constantly driving people
with that personal connection.
That, I think, is the firststep to building your community,
Because I think people want tofind out more about you and what
(08:25):
makes you tick, and not justmore about you.
But why you?
Especially if it's a businesstype podcast.
Why should I follow you?
Why should I do business withyou there?
Or why should it be a part ofyour community?
Why should I be a part of your?
You know your movement.
It's not because you're, youknow, a good looking person and
you sound good.
No, it's because you havesomething of value to offer me
(08:48):
and you're talking to.
You're talking to me.
Paul (08:52):
Yeah, I do a lot of talk on on email marketing and
helping people build their emailrelationships.
There's a thousand people outthere that can give you the same
answers that I might give you.
But yeah, you're looking forwhat is your experience, what's
your take on it?
How have you done it?
You know what's your uniqueflavor.
One of the things I've beenworking with some clients and I
(09:14):
said every piece of content thatis one thing I tell people like
in email, in my weeklynewsletters, with PowWows.
com at the top of all the emailsis my chance to interact with
them personally, and so I writein the first person, I ask
questions directly to them.
I'm really talking thatone-on-one thing, even in email,
and it works so well and it wasawesome.
(09:36):
And we were up in Oregon thispast weekend at a PowWow and I
had several people come up andsay, oh my gosh, I watched you
on, you know, on your podcast,and they're like, ah, it's so
good to finally meet you and youknow they already felt like
they had that relationship withme.
It was.
That was a really coolexperience to to see the people
come up and actually say that,to see the people come up and
actually say that that was cool.
Carl (09:56):
So let's get to some of the nitty gritty.
Then Give me what yourdefinition of community is.
How would you define it?
Paul (10:08):
For me, community is everybody that feels a part of
your group, your movement, andfeel some type of connection to
you and each other.
So with PowWows.
com, that is everybody who,whether they're engaged with our
Facebook, our email, ourYouTube videos, our live streams
, whatever if they feel likethey are a part of you and
connect with you in some way,then they're part of your
community.
Carl (10:28):
How do you go about building that community then?
What were some of the earliersteps that you and I know this
goes beyond the podcast, butthinking of podcasters too, but
just in general, what were someof the earlier steps that you
and I know this goes beyond thepodcast, but thinking of
podcasters too, but just ingeneral, what were some of the
steps that you had to take tobuild that community?
Paul (10:42):
You know, early on, it's recognizing what type of what is
your audience looking for.
How do they want to engage,what is it that they need
answers to?
And when you deliver that tothem, then they will start to.
You know, oh, oh, he is talkingto me.
Okay, in the early days it wasfor for PowWows.
com.
(11:02):
It was literally just givingthem a platform to talk, right,
and a lot of times it was just Ijust had to get out of the way
because what they wanted was tobe able to exchange with each
other.
Once I figured out how to dothat and the technology back in
1996, it was a lot different.
But once we presented them witha platform, it's like hey, look
, you can talk with each other,you can make these posts and
(11:24):
have replies and have thesechats.
Then they felt like they were apart of that group.
Later on, after social mediadid that part for us, it was
figuring out okay, well, what isit more in depth, what are you
looking for?
If we answer your questionsabout going to a powwow, if we
provide you with a calendar ofevents, there's your content and
(11:45):
we can start developing, youknow, and answering those
questions, answering those needs, and again they start feeling
like they're part of it, becauseyou are delivering what they
want.
Carl (11:54):
So, as you're building your community, then and you're
posing some great questions hereas you're going are you asking
these questions of yourcommunity?
What is it that you want?
Are you taking surveys or doing, you know, checking in to see
what their needs are now andmaybe what their needs might be
moving forward?
Paul (12:10):
Yeah, you know I used to do a yearly survey and it was an
expensive thing and it was.
You know.
I printed out this hundreds ofpages and I'd scroll through it.
Now, because you know it'ssocial media, I get those kind
of answers and comments easierand more frequently.
Now it's just I can listen tothe audience when they post
something.
But yeah, I'm still like emails.
I ask all the time.
(12:30):
You know what are yourquestions.
I have a email sequence thatgoes through what to expect at
your first powwow for people whoaren't really in the culture
and kind of want to go andexperience it for the first time
.
And the last email in thatsequence is okay, I've given you
all this information.
What's holding you back now?
What is that one thing that'spreventing you from going to
(12:52):
that PowWow?
What else can I do for you toget you to go and have that
first experience?
And then I get some responsesto that and maybe then I go back
and rework the email sequence.
Maybe then I can go and answerthose questions better and
figure out what I didn't deliver.
Yeah, asking those questions isa great way to then build more
content.
Carl (13:11):
What are some of the things that you've noticed along
the way as you built yourcommunity, but then, as you've
seen others or even helpedothers build up theirs, what are
some of the stumbling blocksthat people encounter in that
space?
Paul (13:23):
For me, I've had to remind myself of that same.
What I talked about earlier isthe messaging and delivering,
talking directly to people.
I've failed at that.
When I first started doingemail at first I was just using
our forums to deliver email topeople and then when I started
doing my email newsletter, forthe first few years it looked
like a Sunday morning salespaper.
(13:44):
It was really fancy, flashy,lots of colors, these nice
layouts and it was really mejust bombarding people with
information and sure it got someclicks and it got traffic or
whatever.
But when I switched over towriting emails in the first
person and more text-based andbeing more relationship-driven,
(14:04):
my email took off right.
It became a huge part of whatwe do.
So that's one of the things Ithink you just need to remind
yourself.
Going back to what I saidearlier every piece of content
how can you deliver it in a waythat it's going to make people
feel like they're part of you?
You know we do the same thingon when we're writing articles.
If I'm working with writers orwhatever, you know, I tell them
(14:24):
we're not Wikipedia, right?
We're not trying to write somekind of textbook type article,
even though we may be covering ahistorical topic or you know a
profile of somebody.
It needs to be written likeit's a conversation, a
one-on-one, you know, and youcan say things in there like oh
my gosh, I really like this andI think you will too, you know.
(14:49):
Or oh my, oh, I just learnedthis, let me tell you more about
it.
You can use that type oflanguage in your articles.
That's one of the things I thinka lot of people struggle with.
But then again, too, I see somany people again just relying
on a Facebook group to be theircommunity and not really
embracing that whole communityis everywhere thing.
I have a Facebook group, I havea couple PowWows.
com for and that's one of thoseplaces.
(15:11):
I just get out of the way mostof the time and I just let
people that's just a place forthem to engage with each other.
I don't even look at thatanymore as an active part of how
I go and engage with theaudience.
It's just so much noise inthere, right.
So you've got to find a waythat you can interact with your
audience and what's the bestplatform to do that?
What's the best, and thenembrace that and work on that
(15:34):
and maybe, like me, maybe yourgroup is very active and has
lots of stuff going on, but thatmay not be the best way that
you engage with the communityright?
It just may be their communityplace to go and hang out.
Carl (15:45):
I guess also with social media, we've learned and if we
haven't learned we've beenasleep that there's so many
rules or algorithms orlimitations or whatever it is
that make it challenging to havethat as a space, that it's so
many rules or algorithms orlimitations or whatever it is
that make it challenging to havethat as a space, that it's a
you know, let's face it allsocial media platforms they need
to make money.
Yes, they want to make money.
(16:05):
That's why they are there.
They are business, so they'regoing to engage or allow you to
engage, limited, in a limitedfashion, or have those views or
likes or shares or discussionsor whatever.
Because of that, right.
So, but I like how you, how youshared that it's not just one
spot, it community is everywhere, and I think that's one of the
(16:26):
pieces that we miss is we thinkthat, oh, I need to.
You know, if I want to buildcommunity, I need to have a
Facebook group or I need to havea whatever here, and I need to,
and that's all I need to do.
A lot of people see.
Paul (16:39):
Their first experience with PowWows.
com now is our live streams.
We stream 20 to 30 PowWows livea year, and so I have a lot of
people that they watch our livestreams and don't realize what
else we do.
And so if you only think ofyour Facebook group or you only
think of your Patreon orwhatever it is, as your
community, you're losing a wholegroup of people out there.
(17:00):
You know, all the time I havepeople write me and go oh my God
, I loved your live stream.
But you know I'm looking forthis information and I'll say,
well, hey, we have this pageright here.
We answer all those questionsand they're like oh my God, I
didn't know you had all thisRight.
Remember that because ofalgorithms and all this other
crazy stuff, people may only beseeing this much of your whole
ecosystem, but they still feel apart of your community, so make
(17:23):
sure you get them wherever theyare.
Carl (17:27):
I think the first step, too, that we talked about
earlier and that we mentioned, Ithink, more than once in our
conversation, is, if you're atthe starting gate, think of your
content first.
If you think, oh, it's time tobuild community, or I haven't
built community, it starts withthe content itself.
Right Bar none, it starts withcontent.
Paul (17:45):
Yes, yeah, and write that content for a conversation.
Yes.
Carl (17:49):
And that's the part too that I wanted to mention was the
writing for the ear versuswriting for the eye.
We are so trained to write forthe eye.
We're taught in school, wewrite essays and book reports
and later on theses and thingslike that.
That's writing for the eye andwe're really good at it.
But when it comes to writingconversationally unless you've
(18:10):
studied radio broadcasting orsome type of media which I have
or understand a conversationaltone it's tricky when you're
getting started to do that or wethink that, or what we think is
conversational really isn't.
And sometimes people read myemails, even ones that I send
personally, and they'll thinkI'm sitting right there because
(18:31):
I write conversationally almostto a fault all the time when
you're writing content for yourwebsite.
Paul (18:38):
So many people now are writing for Google, and Google
is even now come out and saidstop doing that.
Right.
Your content needs to behelpful and answer the reader's
questions or queries or why theywent to you.
Right.
You need to be really focusingon delivering the value to them,
not writing for SEO, and someof my site got hit by some of
(19:01):
these Google changes too, and weall have to figure out how we,
you know, engage with ourreaders better and stop writing
just for these search engines.
Carl (19:09):
Yeah, seo is important, but it's not, it's not the be
all end all.
Let's face it.
Yes, google is a big company,but it's not the only company,
and it shouldn't be just well,google says, do this, well,
that's nice.
If Google said, jump off acliff, you probably wouldn't do
it Right.
So so you really need to thinkabout what it is that your goal
(19:30):
is.
And and also, yes, of course,you can't ignore the fact that
that the SEO is important, butagain, the language, the you
know playing within the rules orwithin the boundaries, but then
also it still has to serve.
Not only serve you as thebusiness owner, but if you're
building community, it has toserve your community.
(19:52):
It can't just be for SEOpurposes.
Yeah, exactly, wow, paul, Icould probably talk to you for
the next hundred years aboutthis, but I think we've done a
really good job at establishingsome credibility with the
importance of building communityand some of the keys to get
started.
So you've got some greatresources, though that our
(20:15):
listeners, I know, would love tohear, so share with us about
that resources though, that ourlisteners I know would love to
hear, so share with us aboutthat.
Paul (20:23):
You know, like I talked about email for PowWows.
com, I feel like email is reallythe heart of our community now.
It's where I am able to talkone-on-one to people and not
worry about algorithms.
So if you're looking to levelup your email, I've got some
resources on how I grow my emaillist.
So paulgetter.
com/ email tools and I'll showyou some of the tips and tricks
that I do to grow my email listto now over a hundred thousand
(20:43):
subscribers.
Carl (20:44):
Wow, phenomenal.
And we'll make sure that thatlink and your other social links
as well.
Any other relevant links are inthe show notes.
Paul Getter, it's been afantastic discussion today.
Before I turn you loose toexpand your community or start
another podcast, I'll leave youwith the final thought, my
(21:08):
friend.
Paul (21:09):
Final thought is you know, I think community is so
important and so many people outthere are trying to figure out
these algorithms and buildingtheir content and putting their
content on every single platformand, you know, just feel like a
shotgun approach to socialmedia.
I want to tell people really toniche down and figure out where
your audience is.
If your audience is reallyengaging with your content on
(21:29):
LinkedIn, right, if that's yourplace, then put your time and
effort there.
Stop worrying about that.
Well, everybody tells me I haveto post on Facebook.
Well, if you're not getting anyengagement there and your
community is not there, don't doit.
Right, focus on where yourcommunity is.
Put your time and effort there.
You don't have to be everywhere.
Sure, that's a valid strategyor whatever.
(21:50):
But if your audience is on aplatform, really engage with
them there, double down on itand watch it grow from there.
Carl (21:59):
And, as you're watching it , grow, have fun doing it and
engage Paul.
It's been a phenomenalconversation.
Thank you so much for being myguest today.
Paul (22:05):
Thank you, sir.
I really appreciate it.
I've enjoyed the conversation.
Carl (22:08):
And thank you for joining us today.
Special thanks to our producerand production lead, Dom Carillo
, our music guru, Nathan Simon,and the person who works the
arms all of our arms, actuallymy trusty assistant, Stephanie
Gafoor.
If you like what you heardtoday, leave us a comment and a
review, and be sure to share itwith your friends.
(22:29):
If you don't like what youheard, please share it with your
enemies.
Oh, and if you have asuggestion of someone who you
think would make an amazingguest on the show, let us know
about it.
Drop us an email, askcarl@carlspeaks.
ca.
Don't forget to follow us onLinkedIn and Twitter as well.
You'll find all those links inthe show notes, and if you're
ready to take the plunge andjoin the over 3 million people
who have said yes to podcasting,let's have a conversation.
(22:51):
We'll show you the simplest wayto get into the podcasting
space, because, after all, we'repodcast solutions made simple.
We'll catch you next time.
Popular Podcasts
NFL Daily with Gregg Rosenthal
Gregg Rosenthal and a rotating crew of elite NFL Media co-hosts, including Patrick Claybon, Colleen Wolfe, Steve Wyche, Nick Shook and Jourdan Rodrigue of The Athletic get you caught up daily on all the NFL news and analysis you need to be smarter and funnier than your friends.
On Purpose with Jay Shetty
I’m Jay Shetty host of On Purpose the worlds #1 Mental Health podcast and I’m so grateful you found us. I started this podcast 5 years ago to invite you into conversations and workshops that are designed to help make you happier, healthier and more healed. I believe that when you (yes you) feel seen, heard and understood you’re able to deal with relationship struggles, work challenges and life’s ups and downs with more ease and grace. I interview experts, celebrities, thought leaders and athletes so that we can grow our mindset, build better habits and uncover a side of them we’ve never seen before. New episodes every Monday and Friday. Your support means the world to me and I don’t take it for granted — click the follow button and leave a review to help us spread the love with On Purpose. I can’t wait for you to listen to your first or 500th episode!
Dateline NBC
Current and classic episodes, featuring compelling true-crime mysteries, powerful documentaries and in-depth investigations. Follow now to get the latest episodes of Dateline NBC completely free, or subscribe to Dateline Premium for ad-free listening and exclusive bonus content: DatelinePremium.com