December 3, 2025 • 26 mins
Want conversations that feel like smooth sailing and still deliver punchy, practical value? We brought on sailor and coach Terry Barkman to unpack how his life on the water shaped a guesting playbook built on service, clarity, and trust. He believes great interviews start with a mindset shift: be a giver, not a taker; focus on the audience; and treat the host as a collaborator, not a gatekeeper.
We dig into the art of preparation without over-planning. Terry prefers a short pre-call to confirm fit, audience needs, and tone, followed by a light day-of warm-up to keep ideas fresh. He shares why sample questions are useful for alignment but explains how scripting answers can flatten the energy of a live conversation. You’ll hear how to translate your expertise into stories and moments that land, plus how to balance confidence with humility so you add value without hijacking the mic.
We also get practical about boundaries and trust. Terry outlines how he vets shows, sets clear lines around sensitive topics, and avoids the traps of forced vulnerability or clickbait conflict. He offers three crisp steps for first-time guests: craft a strong media one sheet or PodMatch profile, define deal breakers and must-haves, and pitch with empathy that centres the listener. Along the way, we explore the “sailboat effect” as a metaphor for conversation design: read the conditions, trim your sails, and move together toward insight.
If you’re ready to stop winging it and start guesting with intention, this conversation is your chart and compass. Subscribe for more behind-the-mic strategies, share with a friend who’s booking their first interviews, and leave a review with your top takeaway so we can keep building episodes that serve you.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Carl (00:30):
It's going to be one of the things we've got.
Let's dive into today'sepisode.
And my guest today is TerryBarkman.
Terry is a visionary, anentrepreneur, coach, and a
sailor.
He will engage with you yourstory directly and generously to
inspire you to fully see andown your desires.
(00:52):
Superb imagination, he willhelp you unlock and navigate a
path that is truly your own.
All the while keeping you safeand warm on the journey to the
edge of your comfort zone, whichwe all need to get closer to
our comfort zone, I think.
Not closer to the comfort zone,but further away from it.
You know what I mean?
When he is coaching you, youwill feel the combined energies
of his strength and leadershipand receptivity,
(01:14):
wholeheartedness, and nurturingas a coach.
Now, his mission is to createmomentum and connection through
shared adventures, adventureoutdoors, so that you feel
empowered to impact the world inmeaningful ways.
And today we're talking aboutuh Terry, by the way, is a
speaker, he is a publishedauthor, he has a new book coming
out, and he is a thought-afterpodcast guest and up-and-coming
(01:37):
podcast.
We are so glad that we'rechatting with Terry today.
Terry, welcome to the podcast.
Terry (01:41):
Thank you, Carl.
It is so great to be here withyou.
Carl (01:44):
It's an honor having you here, my friend.
I know just as we were gettingstarted, I was mentioning that
the piece of you being a sailorwas a phenomenal aha moment when
I saw that.
I remember about 20 years agoin broadcasting, being on a uh a
leadership day or a teambuilding day with my colleagues
and co-workers.
And it was on a sailboat.
(02:05):
So it was kind of cool.
So you understand there'sthere's a whole methodology to
making sure that that sailboatsails correctly, shall we say?
So you paint yourself as beingthe sailboat coach, correct?
I do.
And you have a book coming upcalled The Sailboat Effect,
correct?
Terry (02:23):
Yeah, not a coincidence.
Carl (02:25):
Okay, all right, awesome.
I just want to make sure.
I'll take that again.
I just want to make sure I hadthat information correct.
So you are a sailboat coach,and your upcoming book, The
Sailboat Effect, we're gonnatalk about that a little later
on.
But what is it that got youbefore we talk about the
podcasting piece?
What is it that got you intosailing?
Terry (02:41):
I really started sailing as a kid and just loved going
out on small boats on smalllakes.
And as I grew, I got ontobigger boats and bigger oceans.
Uh, and I really love takingpeople out onto the water,
especially if they have donelittle or no sailing, and just
bringing them into that world,the calm and the optimization
and the teamwork, all of thejuicy bits.
Carl (03:03):
It definitely is very cool having been in, certainly not
to the capacity that you have,but certainly having been on a
sailboat.
I think my first time was withmy grandfather years ago, little
12-foot sailboat that he had.
And then, as I said, with mycolleagues in radio, basically
managing the sailboat, if I'musing the correct terminology,
is after a very short period ofinstruction, of course, some
(03:24):
team building exercises, butphenomenal.
I want to talk about podcastingtoday, though, because I know
that you have dedicated timeinto getting the word out about
what it is that you do.
You've done some guesting,you're setting up in the next
six months, a year to startingyour own podcast.
So, let's talk about yourexperience as a guest so far
before we dive into what ittakes to be a podcast guest and
(03:48):
how do you really crank it outlike a rock star.
So, what's your experience beenso far?
Terry (03:53):
My experience with podcasting has been mostly
really exciting, mostly reallyexcellent.
The hosts are generally warmand inviting, and whether they
are professional or not, theybehave professionally.
There have been a couple ofnegative experiences that I
would love to steer myself andothers away from ever having to
go through.
But yeah, mostly people arelow-key collaborating already.
(04:17):
And that was a clue for me togo, well, how can we kind of
double down on collaboration andmake the conversations that
we're having even more kind ofteam-based and more centered
around what the audienceactually wants to hear?
Carl (04:30):
It's funny you mentioned that because podcast guesting
and hosting, when you put thetwo together, guest and host,
that's as easy a collaborationas it can be, right?
If you can't do that, then youprobably should expand beyond
that.
But but certainly it's itshould be a very simple thing to
do.
But as you mentioned, there'sthere's sometimes that it isn't
(04:50):
necessarily that simple.
So, and I'm glad yourexperiences have been positive
up to this point for the mostpart.
How would you say, or what arethe steps that you're taking to
make sure that when you'reconnecting with hosts, that you
are coming to the table as atop-notch guest every single
time?
So the best podcast guest youcan be.
Terry (05:09):
I really have five questions that are kind of at
the core of it for me.
I ask myself, if I weresomebody in the audience, I
would say, how are you being agiver, not a taker?
How can you find the right fitin terms of the host and the
right show for you to be on?
And then further down the road,how are you adding value to
this show?
Because it's important andslightly different.
(05:30):
How are you adding value forthis audience?
And always leads us to the nextbeginning.
How are you making it easy forthem to pick you?
Carl (05:38):
I just want to make a couple of notes as you were
talking.
It's interesting that you saidthat about being a giver and not
a taker, because I think thatsome guests come to the platform
thinking, oh, I'm a guest,you're a host, you need me.
And as a podcast host, I know,especially a podcast host that's
been about that's being abroadcaster, I know I can pilot
(05:58):
a show by myself.
I just know I can do that.
There's a benefit to having aguest because they're going to
ideally share their experiencesand help to elevate some of the
messaging I'm already giving.
So you by saying you're a giveras opposed to a taker, and then
give me your show or give methe reins to drive the
(06:19):
conversation.
That's not the way, that's notthe way I roll.
And it sounds that like that'snot the way you roll either,
quite the opposite.
Terry (06:26):
It isn't.
And I was lucky to be invitedinto the podcast world by a
couple of my first hosts who hadjust recently had a negative
experience with somebody.
And so it was top of mind forthem and top of heart.
And they really kind of broughtme in and said, Do you want to
be the kind of guest that caresabout being a guest?
And I'm like, Yes.
Yeah, teach me things.
(06:46):
Uh and so I listened to theirpain and I said, Of course I
don't want to be that guest thatcomes on and says, Oh, I'm
special.
You have to whatever, bow downto me.
I'm the one who's making yourshow great.
No, it's uh we're equals andwe're both providing value.
Uh and one thing that reallystruck me from that initial sort
of uh almost mentoring that Isee received from these two
(07:08):
hosts.
If you're spending plus orminus a thousand dollars an
episode to put this podcast outand get it into the world, you
know, that's that's aninvestment.
And some people are doing thaton sweat and not money, but it's
still an investment.
To approach that as guest, Iwant to have uh obviously the
confidence to know that I'madding something, uh, that I'm
bringing value to you and to theshow and to the audience, but
(07:31):
also the humility to go, youcould have had somebody else,
and I'm glad you picked me.
I'm here to collaborate withyou as equals who are creating
something together, not as oneof us needs to be better than
the other.
Carl (07:43):
I like how you explained that, especially when you keep
coming back to adding value tothe show, which is one piece,
but the bigger messaging I'mhearing from you is the adding
value to the audience, becauseit's one piece that I think that
as podcast hosts, we like toalways remember our audience, or
at least we think we do, butthere's times we forget them.
(08:05):
There's times that we'll bringguests on because they seem like
they're a great fit, or we likethem, or they're a friend of
ours, but are they the best fitfor the audience?
So I like how you're constantlyas a guest, as a host, I have
to be top of mind of that.
But as a guest, if that's topof mind for you and you're
(08:26):
asking the questions, how do Iadd value to the show?
What it is your show is about,but how do I add value to the
audience?
You're already thinking like ahost, not just a regular guest.
Terry (08:39):
Yeah, I mean, I guess so.
Uh, I don't think of myself asa host yet, but I'm certainly
thinking about the audience, andso that is a common trait.
Carl (08:47):
It's a very important trait to think of, and that's
why I wanted to, you know, ifnothing else, give you that
accolade of thinking of theaudiences, because sometimes, as
I say, we forget the audiencewe shouldn't as hosts, but
sometimes the guest just wantsto get their messaging out
there, not realizing that, oh,yes, at the other end of the
conversation is the audience.
So what I have to have andprovide the most value that I
(09:11):
can.
So I actually do want to talkabout collaboration a bit today.
I was going to say this foranother recording, but but I
think that we can I think thatwe can talk about this because
at its simplest form, as I saidearlier, a podcast guest and
host relationship is that.
But how are you making surethat collaboration is happening?
How are you making sure thatstuff is happening?
(09:33):
But it's both the guest andhost are saying rising to the
top.
Terry (09:36):
For me, it's a lot, which way am I looking?
What am I thinking about, andwhat's in my heart?
I actually care about theaudience.
And so it makes it easy for meto kind of empathize with where
they might be.
And I do ask questions, both asI'm pitching myself and then as
we get into the pre-showconversation.
What does this audience need?
What have they been gettinglately?
(09:57):
What can we do that will add,again, add value for them?
And an easy mistake to make,and this was part of my
mentoring for sure when I firstbecame a guest, an easy mistake
to make is I've got a bookcoming out.
And I'm gonna find 17 ways in30 minutes to bring up the fact
that I've got a book coming out,self-serving, right?
And it's selfish, but not in away that promotes the whole show
(10:18):
and what the audience is herefor.
Uh, and so not letting thattake priority in my mind or in
my heart allows me to be presentwith you and go, let's play a
little bit.
And we've kind of defined whatthe area is that we want to play
in, and let's have fun withthat.
Carl (10:32):
By the way, if you haven't heard, Terry has a book coming
out.
Uh we'll give you the detailsof that.
Promise will give you thedetails that, you know, Terry
and I have had multipleconversations about this before
hitting her core today.
So, Terry, I'll make sure thatwe give you the opportunity to
talk about the book and and whatthe expected release date is
and all that, all that juicyinformation as well.
I want to ask you thisquestion, though, as a guest.
(10:55):
I have an opinion as a host,but I also come with 25 years of
experience in broadcasting,which, and that's not to toot my
own horn, it's just as it givesme a level of comfort and
experience that not all hostsand not all guests certainly
have.
So, as a guest, do you preferto have a preliminary call
(11:15):
before the date that you'regoing to record?
Or are you equally comfortablewith less than 10 or maybe as
much as 10 of 10 minutes of prepand then hitting record?
Column A, you're having a callahead of time to figure out what
the recording is going to beabout, or hey, it's the day of
the recording.
I don't know what we're talkingabout.
Let's just go after a littlebit of prep.
(11:35):
Which would you prefer?
Terry (11:37):
I just want to give an aside here to the audience,
Carl.
And I will answer your questionbecause it's an important one.
But what you just did is aperfect example of what I'm
talking about.
When I show up to support thehost and the show and the
audience, what a good host willdo is what Carl just did is say,
and we're going to make sure weplug your book.
(11:58):
We're going to make the win foryou also.
And if you're going in thereand you're being selfless and
you're being generous and you'rebeing a giver, and that isn't
happening for you, pickdifferent hosts.
Carl (12:08):
I love that.
Now back to my question,though.
You answered that verypolitically, by the way.
You said you didn't answer thequestion, but you did actually
step aside, and that's fine.
And I'm glad you're laughing.
I'm really enjoying ourconversation, but which do you
prefer going in?
Do you prefer the I like to beprepped, you know, a week to 10
(12:28):
days before, or are you equallyas comfortable going in to a
host like myself, not having aton of prep and just rolling
with it almost impromptu?
Terry (12:39):
Yes, I'm definitely on the prep side.
I don't know if I'm exactly inthe column the way that you
shaped it, but I love that wehad a talk before the day about
are we a good fit?
And if we are a good fit, whatis the value that we can bring
to this audience?
And then right before thiscall, we had a reminder of that
call.
And has anything bubbled upsince we talked recently?
(13:00):
And has anything changed withthe audience since uh depending
how long ago that call was wherewe first met?
And podcast hosts have busyschedules, so it could be more
than a week later.
And so that refresher, and thenwhat we didn't do is give
ourselves too much of a plan.
And I love to be preparedwithout being over-planned.
Carl (13:19):
I was going to ask you that question, actually.
Is questions or no questions?
And if questions, because we'reboth connected through Podmatch
as well.
So I actually know Terrythrough another association
called CAPS, the CanadianAssociation of Professional
Speakers.
That's how we're connected, butwe're also connected through
another channel, which isPodMatch.
(13:41):
So I can easily go there, and Idid.
I went to Terry's page, andthere's his bios there, his
questions are there, his topicsare there, it's all there.
I don't necessarily have to askthose questions.
I personally prefer to engagein conversation as opposed to
okay, there's 14 or 16 questionsI can pull from as we're
(14:02):
chatting, but I like it to bemore organic, right?
I definitely like it to be moreorganic.
Some prep is important.
How much prep would be too muchprep for you?
Would you say coming in with alist of questions or being fed a
list of questions from the hostis too much prep for you?
Terry (14:20):
Great question.
I love that I have a space on aMedia One page to have some
sample questions to give an ideaof what kinds of stuff that
I've talked about.
And I think PodMatch has bothquestions and topics as a new
PodMatch person.
I'm just learning this now.
And and I think that list ofquestions is helpful to hosts
(14:42):
who want to decide if we're agood fit in the first place, if
we're worth having a follow-upcall on.
And then an experienced hostlike yourself will often not ask
questions off of the stocklist, which I enjoy getting
questions that are not the sameones that have answered on the
previous bunch of shows.
I don't know that a host hasever sent me a list of questions
that they were going to ask.
(15:03):
I think I would be fine with itif they did.
But again, I would look at thatas preparation, not planning.
I wouldn't write out my answersto those questions and then try
to answer it the way I'dwritten it.
If there's a question that Ihadn't really put a lot of
thought into, I might do somewriting to get my thinking out.
And then I would put thatwriting aside and then be in the
(15:23):
moment with you as a host.
Carl (15:25):
You would be surprised, Terry, my friend.
How many guests will ask thehost, what questions are you
going to ask me?
And you know what?
For those guests who are savvy,now, as I said again, you're,
you know, we're connectedthrough through PodMatch and
other channels.
But a lot of hosts, a lot ofguests will also have a podcast
(15:48):
guesting one sheet, which hasquestions they're prepared to
answer and topics that they canspeak on.
But there have been times wherea guest will say, Can I get a
list of questions?
You'll never guess what myanswer is every single time.
See, I knew you wouldn't guess.
My answer is no, because Idon't know what questions I'm
(16:11):
going to ask you in that moment,which is why I like to take
that 15 minutes before.
And I know there's a certaincomfort in meeting the guests
ahead of time to see if they arefit.
And I like to do the vettingbefore we get to the recording
through either I have a lot ofpeople that reach out to me
through either an agency, like apodcast booking agency, or
(16:31):
they're reaching out throughPodmatch, which is a great tool
for getting on shows and forguests to and for hosts to get
guests.
So I already know whether ornot they're fit.
What I don't know is what theirpersonality is.
I just know from looking attheir one sheet or their bio on
podmatch that there's a goodchance we're going to have a
(16:52):
great conversation.
I don't know if they have asense of humor, I don't know if
they have a sense of dignity.
I have I have no idea how anyof that comes together.
So there's that piece I don'tknow, but I can usually tell
within the first 10 or 15minutes that as we're prepping,
where this is going to go.
And honestly, I have had littleto no negative experiences,
(17:13):
including today, by the way.
You passed everything withflying colors, you're all good.
But there are those times whereit does happen where you'll get
the guest, for example, thatwants a list of questions and
they want to know this and theywant to know that.
And they there's it's almostlike it's too many things to
know for the platform thatthey're getting on.
And there's also the opposite,too.
(17:35):
And I don't know if you've comeup against this yet, but to get
on shows, sometimes there areso many hoops to jump through.
There's not only filling outthe form, but it's I want all
this information before we evenhit record.
Is there that's I guess that'sone of the reasons why I'm
asking, is there is there such athing as too much before we
even get to the airwaves torecord?
Terry (17:57):
Yeah, I mean, if you're connecting on something like
PodMatch, where you can kind ofsee the host and they've got
everything kind of pre-labeledfor you, and then you've done
the work of creating a profilethat has ostensibly everything
in it, then having like anextensive application process
feels a little redundant.
I'm not saying that I wouldnever do it, but I would need to
(18:17):
have a reasonable expectationthat there was going to be juice
with that host and with thatshow.
So it is certainly a barrierthat I would, you know, I would
think about whether it was worthovercoming that barrier.
And to your earlier point aboutbeing sent a list of questions,
I've never requested a list ofquestions, but I can see maybe
if they're in a situation that Iwas in once, they're asking the
(18:39):
question of can I trust you?
Carl (18:43):
I like that.
Can I trust you?
Okay.
So I'll give you that because Iknow there are some pretty
shadies out there that will say,sure, come on my show, and
they'll ask you questions thatyou're either not prepared to
ask, or they're controversialquestions, or they're political,
spiritual questions that youjust don't want to.
I always say there's things youdon't want to talk about, and
(19:04):
you know, between on certainlyon most shows that I encounter,
it's it's sex, spiritualism ofany kind, especially religion
and politics.
Those are three topics on thisshow and on most business shows
that you don't want to talkabout.
You don't want to broach thosesubjects, and you don't want to
be surprised by them either as aguest or a host, because it can
go both ways.
(19:25):
But I can see how that cansometimes throw, even if it's
not in those three key areas,that most people are savvy
enough to know, okay, unlessyour show is geared that way,
don't just don't do it.
Don't upset the apple card.
Have you ever been on a showthough where you've been thrown
a curveball like that where youget a question and you go, Oh, I
(19:46):
wasn't expecting that one.
And please don't say you'vegotten one today, because then
I'll have to go and you know,reconsider how we onboard our
onboard our guests.
Terry (19:55):
Yes, I did have an interview that went sideways,
uh, and I can talk about itbecause it never aired, and so
this can be completelyanonymous.
People can't search out andfigure out who it was.
But I got to the interview uhand they were different than
what I thought my research hadtold me.
They it felt like somebody hadtold them try to get your guests
(20:16):
to be vulnerable.
And the interpretation of thator the way that the teaching had
been done wasn't like creatingan invitation and that's warm
and a safe space for people totalk about stuff if they want
to.
It was like hit them withquestions and try to get into
some child trauma or somethingalmost like reminiscent of Jerry
Springer, where it's like,we're gonna we're trying to
(20:37):
create a problem here becausethat's gonna be compelling for
the audience.
And I'm like, that's not theaudience that I'm speaking to.
Carl (20:45):
Yeah, I don't think I've had too many negative
experiences, as I said, in thepodcasting space as a guest and
as a host, but certainly therehave been the odd time that a
curveball has been thrown or aquestion that I wasn't expecting
gets lobbed my way.
And again, it's not usuallysomething that's controversial.
It's usually something that Ihaven't maybe fully thought
(21:07):
about, or I have to dance aroundthe itch my answer.
And one of the answers I'mdancing around lately is about
AI, because AI is somethingthat's scaring a lot of people.
It has a lot of value, it canbe fantastic tools in AI, but
some people are getting nervousand they're getting scared that
it's going to replace them orthey're you know, or totally
(21:29):
upset their businesses.
So I have to be very carefulhow I answer the question about
AI and how much of it I use inpodcasting, for example, or even
the things that my my teamuses.
So I'm glad you clarified thatthough, about the your
experiences and that so far it'sthey've they've been pretty
good.
Okay, I'm going to give you ascenario, and then I think we'll
get you to uh provide yourinformation after this.
(21:50):
I just want to give you thescenario though.
I'm brand new to podcasting.
I'm not.
Let's picture it.
I'm brand new to podcasting.
I want to guest on shows.
What are the three key thingsyou would suggest I do before I
get on my first show?
Three key things I should do.
Terry (22:05):
Definitely spend some time creating a media one page
or get onto uh an outfit likePodMatch that walks you through
the steps of what you arebringing to the table and
leverage that to think about whoam I in the sense of
podcasting?
What do I want to talk about?
Who do I want to talk to?
Who do I want to talk aboutthose things with?
(22:25):
And then think about if youhave any deal breakers where you
go, that's not a fit for me.
That's not going to be a linefor my audience.
I don't, for example, need totalk about money, or I do need
to talk about money.
And so once you have a sense ofyourself, your audience, uh,
and you've got that kind ofpresented either in a media one
sheet or on an app that's kindof custom built for it, then
(22:50):
you're ready to start pitchingyourself and start practicing.
Carl (22:53):
So I'm just going to run down these again.
So a media one page, have thatavailable so it's easier for the
hosts.
And yes, it is, by the way.
So much easier when the hostshave it.
The host doesn't have to gochasing for anything.
Figure out what the dealbreakers are for you and how
you're going to approach themwhen they come up.
And then start pitching.
(23:14):
And as you're pitching, what isgoing to make the difference is
whether or not you're pitchingto shows that are going to
matter not only to you, but alsoto the audience of the host in
general.
Terry (23:28):
Your character as a beginning podcaster has
completely fallen apart.
You've given away the secret ofthat you have so much
podcasting experience.
Carl (23:36):
So much ground we've covered today, Terry.
I want to give you theopportunity, though, to if
people have questions aftertoday, how can they get a hold
of you?
Terry (23:44):
My website is terribarkman.com.
And I the spelling will be inthe show notes.
Carl (23:50):
And we'll also make sure that the link is there for your
socials as well.
Oh, very quickly, before yougo, the book.
Give me the goods on the book.
When can we expect to see it onuh, you know, uh purchase it
from wherever it's going to beavailable?
Give me a quick skinny on it.
Terry (24:08):
The book is out as of early 2025.
It'll be available on Amazonand select bookstores.
Also, my website is a greatplace to find out more about
which bookstores and uhpotentially even ordering
through the website could be setup.
Carl (24:25):
Phenomenal, Terry Barkman.
It's been a great conversationtoday.
Congratulations on the successwith the book, which I know
you're excited about it gettingout there sooner than later.
Also, success in podcasting andeverything that you're doing as
the sailboat coach.
And if I see you on the water,you'll be the one with the wind,
and I'll be the one with themotorboat.
(24:45):
Just letting you know if weever see each other on the
water.
That's the way I roll.
But hey, it's good fun.
Before I turn you loose, Terry,I'll give you the final
thought.
Terry (24:54):
Podcasting is fun.
Think about your message andthen stop thinking about it.
Just go and enjoy theconversation, enjoy the value
that you're bringing, and let itflow naturally.
Carl (25:04):
All right, that's a good place to leave it.
Terry Barkman, but thank you somuch for being my guest today.
Thank you, Carl.
It has been just delightful.
Hey, thank you for being a partof the show today.
So glad you can do it.
Believe it or not, I can't workthis magic by myself.
So thanks to my amazing team,our audio engineer, Dom Carillo,
our topic rating genius,Kenton Dobrowolski, and of
(25:24):
course, of course, the artist,all of our factors, our project
manager, andmy trusty assistant Julovell Tiongco.
It's going to be one of the things we've got.
Let's dive into today'sepisode.
And my guest today is TerryBarkman.
Terry is a visionary, anentrepreneur, coach, and a
sailor.
He will engage with you yourstory directly and generously to
inspire you to fully see andown your desires.
(00:52):
Superb imagination, he willhelp you unlock and navigate a
path that is truly your own.
All the while keeping you safeand warm on the journey to the
edge of your comfort zone, whichwe all need to get closer to
our comfort zone, I think.
Not closer to the comfort zone,but further away from it.
You know what I mean?
When he is coaching you, youwill feel the combined energies
of his strength and leadershipand receptivity,
(01:14):
wholeheartedness, and nurturingas a coach.
Now, his mission is to createmomentum and connection through
shared adventures, adventureoutdoors, so that you feel
empowered to impact the world inmeaningful ways.
And today we're talking aboutuh Terry, by the way, is a
speaker, he is a publishedauthor, he has a new book coming
out, and he is a thought-afterpodcast guest and up-and-coming
(01:37):
podcast.
We are so glad that we'rechatting with Terry today.
Terry, welcome to the podcast.
Terry (01:41):
Thank you, Carl.
It is so great to be here withyou.
Carl (01:44):
It's an honor having you here, my friend.
I know just as we were gettingstarted, I was mentioning that
the piece of you being a sailorwas a phenomenal aha moment when
I saw that.
I remember about 20 years agoin broadcasting, being on a uh a
leadership day or a teambuilding day with my colleagues
and co-workers.
And it was on a sailboat.
(02:05):
So it was kind of cool.
So you understand there'sthere's a whole methodology to
making sure that that sailboatsails correctly, shall we say?
So you paint yourself as beingthe sailboat coach, correct?
I do.
And you have a book coming upcalled The Sailboat Effect,
correct?
Terry (02:23):
Yeah, not a coincidence.
Carl (02:25):
Okay, all right, awesome.
I just want to make sure.
I'll take that again.
I just want to make sure I hadthat information correct.
So you are a sailboat coach,and your upcoming book, The
Sailboat Effect, we're gonnatalk about that a little later
on.
But what is it that got youbefore we talk about the
podcasting piece?
What is it that got you intosailing?
Terry (02:41):
I really started sailing as a kid and just loved going
out on small boats on smalllakes.
And as I grew, I got ontobigger boats and bigger oceans.
Uh, and I really love takingpeople out onto the water,
especially if they have donelittle or no sailing, and just
bringing them into that world,the calm and the optimization
and the teamwork, all of thejuicy bits.
Carl (03:03):
It definitely is very cool having been in, certainly not
to the capacity that you have,but certainly having been on a
sailboat.
I think my first time was withmy grandfather years ago, little
12-foot sailboat that he had.
And then, as I said, with mycolleagues in radio, basically
managing the sailboat, if I'musing the correct terminology,
is after a very short period ofinstruction, of course, some
(03:24):
team building exercises, butphenomenal.
I want to talk about podcastingtoday, though, because I know
that you have dedicated timeinto getting the word out about
what it is that you do.
You've done some guesting,you're setting up in the next
six months, a year to startingyour own podcast.
So, let's talk about yourexperience as a guest so far
before we dive into what ittakes to be a podcast guest and
(03:48):
how do you really crank it outlike a rock star.
So, what's your experience beenso far?
Terry (03:53):
My experience with podcasting has been mostly
really exciting, mostly reallyexcellent.
The hosts are generally warmand inviting, and whether they
are professional or not, theybehave professionally.
There have been a couple ofnegative experiences that I
would love to steer myself andothers away from ever having to
go through.
But yeah, mostly people arelow-key collaborating already.
(04:17):
And that was a clue for me togo, well, how can we kind of
double down on collaboration andmake the conversations that
we're having even more kind ofteam-based and more centered
around what the audienceactually wants to hear?
Carl (04:30):
It's funny you mentioned that because podcast guesting
and hosting, when you put thetwo together, guest and host,
that's as easy a collaborationas it can be, right?
If you can't do that, then youprobably should expand beyond
that.
But but certainly it's itshould be a very simple thing to
do.
But as you mentioned, there'sthere's sometimes that it isn't
(04:50):
necessarily that simple.
So, and I'm glad yourexperiences have been positive
up to this point for the mostpart.
How would you say, or what arethe steps that you're taking to
make sure that when you'reconnecting with hosts, that you
are coming to the table as atop-notch guest every single
time?
So the best podcast guest youcan be.
Terry (05:09):
I really have five questions that are kind of at
the core of it for me.
I ask myself, if I weresomebody in the audience, I
would say, how are you being agiver, not a taker?
How can you find the right fitin terms of the host and the
right show for you to be on?
And then further down the road,how are you adding value to
this show?
Because it's important andslightly different.
(05:30):
How are you adding value forthis audience?
And always leads us to the nextbeginning.
How are you making it easy forthem to pick you?
Carl (05:38):
I just want to make a couple of notes as you were
talking.
It's interesting that you saidthat about being a giver and not
a taker, because I think thatsome guests come to the platform
thinking, oh, I'm a guest,you're a host, you need me.
And as a podcast host, I know,especially a podcast host that's
been about that's being abroadcaster, I know I can pilot
(05:58):
a show by myself.
I just know I can do that.
There's a benefit to having aguest because they're going to
ideally share their experiencesand help to elevate some of the
messaging I'm already giving.
So you by saying you're a giveras opposed to a taker, and then
give me your show or give methe reins to drive the
(06:19):
conversation.
That's not the way, that's notthe way I roll.
And it sounds that like that'snot the way you roll either,
quite the opposite.
Terry (06:26):
It isn't.
And I was lucky to be invitedinto the podcast world by a
couple of my first hosts who hadjust recently had a negative
experience with somebody.
And so it was top of mind forthem and top of heart.
And they really kind of broughtme in and said, Do you want to
be the kind of guest that caresabout being a guest?
And I'm like, Yes.
Yeah, teach me things.
(06:46):
Uh and so I listened to theirpain and I said, Of course I
don't want to be that guest thatcomes on and says, Oh, I'm
special.
You have to whatever, bow downto me.
I'm the one who's making yourshow great.
No, it's uh we're equals andwe're both providing value.
Uh and one thing that reallystruck me from that initial sort
of uh almost mentoring that Isee received from these two
(07:08):
hosts.
If you're spending plus orminus a thousand dollars an
episode to put this podcast outand get it into the world, you
know, that's that's aninvestment.
And some people are doing thaton sweat and not money, but it's
still an investment.
To approach that as guest, Iwant to have uh obviously the
confidence to know that I'madding something, uh, that I'm
bringing value to you and to theshow and to the audience, but
(07:31):
also the humility to go, youcould have had somebody else,
and I'm glad you picked me.
I'm here to collaborate withyou as equals who are creating
something together, not as oneof us needs to be better than
the other.
Carl (07:43):
I like how you explained that, especially when you keep
coming back to adding value tothe show, which is one piece,
but the bigger messaging I'mhearing from you is the adding
value to the audience, becauseit's one piece that I think that
as podcast hosts, we like toalways remember our audience, or
at least we think we do, butthere's times we forget them.
(08:05):
There's times that we'll bringguests on because they seem like
they're a great fit, or we likethem, or they're a friend of
ours, but are they the best fitfor the audience?
So I like how you're constantlyas a guest, as a host, I have
to be top of mind of that.
But as a guest, if that's topof mind for you and you're
(08:26):
asking the questions, how do Iadd value to the show?
What it is your show is about,but how do I add value to the
audience?
You're already thinking like ahost, not just a regular guest.
Terry (08:39):
Yeah, I mean, I guess so.
Uh, I don't think of myself asa host yet, but I'm certainly
thinking about the audience, andso that is a common trait.
Carl (08:47):
It's a very important trait to think of, and that's
why I wanted to, you know, ifnothing else, give you that
accolade of thinking of theaudiences, because sometimes, as
I say, we forget the audiencewe shouldn't as hosts, but
sometimes the guest just wantsto get their messaging out
there, not realizing that, oh,yes, at the other end of the
conversation is the audience.
So what I have to have andprovide the most value that I
(09:11):
can.
So I actually do want to talkabout collaboration a bit today.
I was going to say this foranother recording, but but I
think that we can I think thatwe can talk about this because
at its simplest form, as I saidearlier, a podcast guest and
host relationship is that.
But how are you making surethat collaboration is happening?
How are you making sure thatstuff is happening?
(09:33):
But it's both the guest andhost are saying rising to the
top.
Terry (09:36):
For me, it's a lot, which way am I looking?
What am I thinking about, andwhat's in my heart?
I actually care about theaudience.
And so it makes it easy for meto kind of empathize with where
they might be.
And I do ask questions, both asI'm pitching myself and then as
we get into the pre-showconversation.
What does this audience need?
What have they been gettinglately?
(09:57):
What can we do that will add,again, add value for them?
And an easy mistake to make,and this was part of my
mentoring for sure when I firstbecame a guest, an easy mistake
to make is I've got a bookcoming out.
And I'm gonna find 17 ways in30 minutes to bring up the fact
that I've got a book coming out,self-serving, right?
And it's selfish, but not in away that promotes the whole show
(10:18):
and what the audience is herefor.
Uh, and so not letting thattake priority in my mind or in
my heart allows me to be presentwith you and go, let's play a
little bit.
And we've kind of defined whatthe area is that we want to play
in, and let's have fun withthat.
Carl (10:32):
By the way, if you haven't heard, Terry has a book coming
out.
Uh we'll give you the detailsof that.
Promise will give you thedetails that, you know, Terry
and I have had multipleconversations about this before
hitting her core today.
So, Terry, I'll make sure thatwe give you the opportunity to
talk about the book and and whatthe expected release date is
and all that, all that juicyinformation as well.
I want to ask you thisquestion, though, as a guest.
(10:55):
I have an opinion as a host,but I also come with 25 years of
experience in broadcasting,which, and that's not to toot my
own horn, it's just as it givesme a level of comfort and
experience that not all hostsand not all guests certainly
have.
So, as a guest, do you preferto have a preliminary call
(11:15):
before the date that you'regoing to record?
Or are you equally comfortablewith less than 10 or maybe as
much as 10 of 10 minutes of prepand then hitting record?
Column A, you're having a callahead of time to figure out what
the recording is going to beabout, or hey, it's the day of
the recording.
I don't know what we're talkingabout.
Let's just go after a littlebit of prep.
(11:35):
Which would you prefer?
Terry (11:37):
I just want to give an aside here to the audience,
Carl.
And I will answer your questionbecause it's an important one.
But what you just did is aperfect example of what I'm
talking about.
When I show up to support thehost and the show and the
audience, what a good host willdo is what Carl just did is say,
and we're going to make sure weplug your book.
(11:58):
We're going to make the win foryou also.
And if you're going in thereand you're being selfless and
you're being generous and you'rebeing a giver, and that isn't
happening for you, pickdifferent hosts.
Carl (12:08):
I love that.
Now back to my question,though.
You answered that verypolitically, by the way.
You said you didn't answer thequestion, but you did actually
step aside, and that's fine.
And I'm glad you're laughing.
I'm really enjoying ourconversation, but which do you
prefer going in?
Do you prefer the I like to beprepped, you know, a week to 10
(12:28):
days before, or are you equallyas comfortable going in to a
host like myself, not having aton of prep and just rolling
with it almost impromptu?
Terry (12:39):
Yes, I'm definitely on the prep side.
I don't know if I'm exactly inthe column the way that you
shaped it, but I love that wehad a talk before the day about
are we a good fit?
And if we are a good fit, whatis the value that we can bring
to this audience?
And then right before thiscall, we had a reminder of that
call.
And has anything bubbled upsince we talked recently?
(13:00):
And has anything changed withthe audience since uh depending
how long ago that call was wherewe first met?
And podcast hosts have busyschedules, so it could be more
than a week later.
And so that refresher, and thenwhat we didn't do is give
ourselves too much of a plan.
And I love to be preparedwithout being over-planned.
Carl (13:19):
I was going to ask you that question, actually.
Is questions or no questions?
And if questions, because we'reboth connected through Podmatch
as well.
So I actually know Terrythrough another association
called CAPS, the CanadianAssociation of Professional
Speakers.
That's how we're connected, butwe're also connected through
another channel, which isPodMatch.
(13:41):
So I can easily go there, and Idid.
I went to Terry's page, andthere's his bios there, his
questions are there, his topicsare there, it's all there.
I don't necessarily have to askthose questions.
I personally prefer to engagein conversation as opposed to
okay, there's 14 or 16 questionsI can pull from as we're
(14:02):
chatting, but I like it to bemore organic, right?
I definitely like it to be moreorganic.
Some prep is important.
How much prep would be too muchprep for you?
Would you say coming in with alist of questions or being fed a
list of questions from the hostis too much prep for you?
Terry (14:20):
Great question.
I love that I have a space on aMedia One page to have some
sample questions to give an ideaof what kinds of stuff that
I've talked about.
And I think PodMatch has bothquestions and topics as a new
PodMatch person.
I'm just learning this now.
And and I think that list ofquestions is helpful to hosts
(14:42):
who want to decide if we're agood fit in the first place, if
we're worth having a follow-upcall on.
And then an experienced hostlike yourself will often not ask
questions off of the stocklist, which I enjoy getting
questions that are not the sameones that have answered on the
previous bunch of shows.
I don't know that a host hasever sent me a list of questions
that they were going to ask.
(15:03):
I think I would be fine with itif they did.
But again, I would look at thatas preparation, not planning.
I wouldn't write out my answersto those questions and then try
to answer it the way I'dwritten it.
If there's a question that Ihadn't really put a lot of
thought into, I might do somewriting to get my thinking out.
And then I would put thatwriting aside and then be in the
(15:23):
moment with you as a host.
Carl (15:25):
You would be surprised, Terry, my friend.
How many guests will ask thehost, what questions are you
going to ask me?
And you know what?
For those guests who are savvy,now, as I said again, you're,
you know, we're connectedthrough through PodMatch and
other channels.
But a lot of hosts, a lot ofguests will also have a podcast
(15:48):
guesting one sheet, which hasquestions they're prepared to
answer and topics that they canspeak on.
But there have been times wherea guest will say, Can I get a
list of questions?
You'll never guess what myanswer is every single time.
See, I knew you wouldn't guess.
My answer is no, because Idon't know what questions I'm
(16:11):
going to ask you in that moment,which is why I like to take
that 15 minutes before.
And I know there's a certaincomfort in meeting the guests
ahead of time to see if they arefit.
And I like to do the vettingbefore we get to the recording
through either I have a lot ofpeople that reach out to me
through either an agency, like apodcast booking agency, or
(16:31):
they're reaching out throughPodmatch, which is a great tool
for getting on shows and forguests to and for hosts to get
guests.
So I already know whether ornot they're fit.
What I don't know is what theirpersonality is.
I just know from looking attheir one sheet or their bio on
podmatch that there's a goodchance we're going to have a
(16:52):
great conversation.
I don't know if they have asense of humor, I don't know if
they have a sense of dignity.
I have I have no idea how anyof that comes together.
So there's that piece I don'tknow, but I can usually tell
within the first 10 or 15minutes that as we're prepping,
where this is going to go.
And honestly, I have had littleto no negative experiences,
(17:13):
including today, by the way.
You passed everything withflying colors, you're all good.
But there are those times whereit does happen where you'll get
the guest, for example, thatwants a list of questions and
they want to know this and theywant to know that.
And they there's it's almostlike it's too many things to
know for the platform thatthey're getting on.
And there's also the opposite,too.
(17:35):
And I don't know if you've comeup against this yet, but to get
on shows, sometimes there areso many hoops to jump through.
There's not only filling outthe form, but it's I want all
this information before we evenhit record.
Is there that's I guess that'sone of the reasons why I'm
asking, is there is there such athing as too much before we
even get to the airwaves torecord?
Terry (17:57):
Yeah, I mean, if you're connecting on something like
PodMatch, where you can kind ofsee the host and they've got
everything kind of pre-labeledfor you, and then you've done
the work of creating a profilethat has ostensibly everything
in it, then having like anextensive application process
feels a little redundant.
I'm not saying that I wouldnever do it, but I would need to
(18:17):
have a reasonable expectationthat there was going to be juice
with that host and with thatshow.
So it is certainly a barrierthat I would, you know, I would
think about whether it was worthovercoming that barrier.
And to your earlier point aboutbeing sent a list of questions,
I've never requested a list ofquestions, but I can see maybe
if they're in a situation that Iwas in once, they're asking the
(18:39):
question of can I trust you?
Carl (18:43):
I like that.
Can I trust you?
Okay.
So I'll give you that because Iknow there are some pretty
shadies out there that will say,sure, come on my show, and
they'll ask you questions thatyou're either not prepared to
ask, or they're controversialquestions, or they're political,
spiritual questions that youjust don't want to.
I always say there's things youdon't want to talk about, and
(19:04):
you know, between on certainlyon most shows that I encounter,
it's it's sex, spiritualism ofany kind, especially religion
and politics.
Those are three topics on thisshow and on most business shows
that you don't want to talkabout.
You don't want to broach thosesubjects, and you don't want to
be surprised by them either as aguest or a host, because it can
go both ways.
(19:25):
But I can see how that cansometimes throw, even if it's
not in those three key areas,that most people are savvy
enough to know, okay, unlessyour show is geared that way,
don't just don't do it.
Don't upset the apple card.
Have you ever been on a showthough where you've been thrown
a curveball like that where youget a question and you go, Oh, I
(19:46):
wasn't expecting that one.
And please don't say you'vegotten one today, because then
I'll have to go and you know,reconsider how we onboard our
onboard our guests.
Terry (19:55):
Yes, I did have an interview that went sideways,
uh, and I can talk about itbecause it never aired, and so
this can be completelyanonymous.
People can't search out andfigure out who it was.
But I got to the interview uhand they were different than
what I thought my research hadtold me.
They it felt like somebody hadtold them try to get your guests
(20:16):
to be vulnerable.
And the interpretation of thator the way that the teaching had
been done wasn't like creatingan invitation and that's warm
and a safe space for people totalk about stuff if they want
to.
It was like hit them withquestions and try to get into
some child trauma or somethingalmost like reminiscent of Jerry
Springer, where it's like,we're gonna we're trying to
(20:37):
create a problem here becausethat's gonna be compelling for
the audience.
And I'm like, that's not theaudience that I'm speaking to.
Carl (20:45):
Yeah, I don't think I've had too many negative
experiences, as I said, in thepodcasting space as a guest and
as a host, but certainly therehave been the odd time that a
curveball has been thrown or aquestion that I wasn't expecting
gets lobbed my way.
And again, it's not usuallysomething that's controversial.
It's usually something that Ihaven't maybe fully thought
(21:07):
about, or I have to dance aroundthe itch my answer.
And one of the answers I'mdancing around lately is about
AI, because AI is somethingthat's scaring a lot of people.
It has a lot of value, it canbe fantastic tools in AI, but
some people are getting nervousand they're getting scared that
it's going to replace them orthey're you know, or totally
(21:29):
upset their businesses.
So I have to be very carefulhow I answer the question about
AI and how much of it I use inpodcasting, for example, or even
the things that my my teamuses.
So I'm glad you clarified thatthough, about the your
experiences and that so far it'sthey've they've been pretty
good.
Okay, I'm going to give you ascenario, and then I think we'll
get you to uh provide yourinformation after this.
(21:50):
I just want to give you thescenario though.
I'm brand new to podcasting.
I'm not.
Let's picture it.
I'm brand new to podcasting.
I want to guest on shows.
What are the three key thingsyou would suggest I do before I
get on my first show?
Three key things I should do.
Terry (22:05):
Definitely spend some time creating a media one page
or get onto uh an outfit likePodMatch that walks you through
the steps of what you arebringing to the table and
leverage that to think about whoam I in the sense of
podcasting?
What do I want to talk about?
Who do I want to talk to?
Who do I want to talk aboutthose things with?
(22:25):
And then think about if youhave any deal breakers where you
go, that's not a fit for me.
That's not going to be a linefor my audience.
I don't, for example, need totalk about money, or I do need
to talk about money.
And so once you have a sense ofyourself, your audience, uh,
and you've got that kind ofpresented either in a media one
sheet or on an app that's kindof custom built for it, then
(22:50):
you're ready to start pitchingyourself and start practicing.
Carl (22:53):
So I'm just going to run down these again.
So a media one page, have thatavailable so it's easier for the
hosts.
And yes, it is, by the way.
So much easier when the hostshave it.
The host doesn't have to gochasing for anything.
Figure out what the dealbreakers are for you and how
you're going to approach themwhen they come up.
And then start pitching.
(23:14):
And as you're pitching, what isgoing to make the difference is
whether or not you're pitchingto shows that are going to
matter not only to you, but alsoto the audience of the host in
general.
Terry (23:28):
Your character as a beginning podcaster has
completely fallen apart.
You've given away the secret ofthat you have so much
podcasting experience.
Carl (23:36):
So much ground we've covered today, Terry.
I want to give you theopportunity, though, to if
people have questions aftertoday, how can they get a hold
of you?
Terry (23:44):
My website is terribarkman.com.
And I the spelling will be inthe show notes.
Carl (23:50):
And we'll also make sure that the link is there for your
socials as well.
Oh, very quickly, before yougo, the book.
Give me the goods on the book.
When can we expect to see it onuh, you know, uh purchase it
from wherever it's going to beavailable?
Give me a quick skinny on it.
Terry (24:08):
The book is out as of early 2025.
It'll be available on Amazonand select bookstores.
Also, my website is a greatplace to find out more about
which bookstores and uhpotentially even ordering
through the website could be setup.
Carl (24:25):
Phenomenal, Terry Barkman.
It's been a great conversationtoday.
Congratulations on the successwith the book, which I know
you're excited about it gettingout there sooner than later.
Also, success in podcasting andeverything that you're doing as
the sailboat coach.
And if I see you on the water,you'll be the one with the wind,
and I'll be the one with themotorboat.
(24:45):
Just letting you know if weever see each other on the
water.
That's the way I roll.
But hey, it's good fun.
Before I turn you loose, Terry,I'll give you the final
thought.
Terry (24:54):
Podcasting is fun.
Think about your message andthen stop thinking about it.
Just go and enjoy theconversation, enjoy the value
that you're bringing, and let itflow naturally.
Carl (25:04):
All right, that's a good place to leave it.
Terry Barkman, but thank you somuch for being my guest today.
Thank you, Carl.
It has been just delightful.
Hey, thank you for being a partof the show today.
So glad you can do it.
Believe it or not, I can't workthis magic by myself.
So thanks to my amazing team,our audio engineer, Dom Carillo,
our topic rating genius,Kenton Dobrowolski, and of
(25:24):
course, of course, the artist,all of our factors, our project
manager, andmy trusty assistant Julovell Tiongco.
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