Francis Chan sits down with theologian and apologist Gavin Ortlund (truthunites.org) for a vulnerable, wide-ranging conversation about communion, church unity, and what it means to love other Christians in a fractured age. Francis shares his own journey wrestling with the Eucharist, reading the church fathers, engaging Roman Catholic and Orthodox perspectives, and discovering the “real presence” within a Protestant framework. Gavin explains why he remains gratefully Protestant and how he understands the richness of the Lord’s Supper and church history.
Together, they talk honestly about the harsh tone of much online “discernment” content, the temptation to chase clicks by attacking other believers, and the deep grief they both feel over division in the body of Christ. Francis opens up about this new season of life and ministry, sensing a renewed childlike faith, a burden to guard and walk with younger leaders, and a longing to see gospel-centered unity rooted in truth and shaped by the love of God.
If you’ve ever wrestled with questions about the Lord’s Supper, Protestant vs. Catholic/Orthodox claims, or how to contend for truth without losing love, this conversation will both challenge and encourage you to fix your eyes on Jesus and pursue a unity that flows from the gospel itself.
Popular Podcasts
Stuff You Should Know
If you've ever wanted to know about champagne, satanism, the Stonewall Uprising, chaos theory, LSD, El Nino, true crime and Rosa Parks, then look no further. Josh and Chuck have you covered.
Dateline NBC
Current and classic episodes, featuring compelling true-crime mysteries, powerful documentaries and in-depth investigations. Follow now to get the latest episodes of Dateline NBC completely free, or subscribe to Dateline Premium for ad-free listening and exclusive bonus content: DatelinePremium.com
Betrayal: Weekly
Betrayal Weekly is back for a brand new season. Every Thursday, Betrayal Weekly shares first-hand accounts of broken trust, shocking deceptions, and the trail of destruction they leave behind. Hosted by Andrea Gunning, this weekly ongoing series digs into real-life stories of betrayal and the aftermath. From stories of double lives to dark discoveries, these are cautionary tales and accounts of resilience against all odds. From the producers of the critically acclaimed Betrayal series, Betrayal Weekly drops new episodes every Thursday. Please join our Substack for additional exclusive content, curated book recommendations and community discussions. Sign up FREE by clicking this link Beyond Betrayal Substack. Join our community dedicated to truth, resilience and healing. Your voice matters! Be a part of our Betrayal journey on Substack. And make sure to check out Seasons 1-4 of Betrayal, along with Betrayal Weekly Season 1.