Episode #479: From Bitcoin to Birdsong: Building Trust in a World of Fakes

In this episode of Crazy Wisdom, Stewart Alsop talks with Cathal, founder of Poliebotics and creator of the “truth beam” system, about proof of liveness technology, blockchain-based verification, projector-camera feedback loops, physics-based cryptography, and how these tools could counter deepfakes and secure biodiversity data. They explore applications ranging from conservation monitoring on Cathal’s island in Ireland to robot-assisted farming, as well as the intersection of nature, humanity, and AI. Cathal also shares thoughts on open-source tools like Jitsi and Element, and the cultural shifts emerging from AI-driven creativity. Find more about his work and Poliebotics in Github and Twitter.

Check out this GPT we trained on the conversation

Timestamps

00:00 Stewart Alsop introduces Cathal, starting with proof of liveness vs proof of aliveness and deepfake challenges.
05:00 Cathal explains projector-camera feedback loops, Perlin noise, cryptographic hashing, blockchain timestamps via Rootstock.
10:00 Discussion on using multiple blockchains for timestamps, physics-based timing, and recording verification.
15:00 Early Bitcoin days, cypherpunk culture, deterministic vs probabilistic systems.
20:00 Projector emissions, autoencoders, six-channel matrix data type, training discriminators.
25:00 Decentralized verification, truth beams, building trust networks without blockchain.
30:00 Optical interlinks, testing computational nature of reality, simulation ideas.
35:00 Dystopia vs optimism, AI offense in cybersecurity, reputation networks.
40:00 Reality transform, projecting AI into reality, creative agents, philosophical implications.
45:00 Conservation applications, biodiversity monitoring, insect assays, cryptographically secured data.
50:00 Optical cryptography, analog feedback loops, quantum resistance.
55:00 Open source tools, Jitsi, Element, cultural speciation, robot-assisted farming, nature-human-AI coexistence.

Key Insights

1. Cathal’s “proof of liveness” aims to authenticate real-time video by projecting cryptographically generated patterns onto a subject and capturing them with synchronized cameras, making it extremely difficult for deepfakes or pre-recorded footage to pass as live content.
2. The system uses blockchain timestamps—currently via Rootstock, a Bitcoin sidechain running the Ethereum Virtual Machine—to anchor these projections in a decentralized, physics-based timeline, ensuring verification doesn’t depend on trusting a single authority.
3. A distinctive six-channel matrix data type, created by combining projector and camera outputs, is used to train neural network discriminators that determine whether a recording and projection genuinely match, allowing for scalable automated verification.
4. Cathal envisions “truth beams” as portable, collaborative verification devices that could build decentralized trust networks and even operate without blockchains once enough verified connections exist.
5. Beyond combating misinformation, the same projector-camera systems could serve conservation efforts—recording biodiversity data, securing it cryptographically, and supporting projects like insect population monitoring and bird song analysis on Cathal’s island in Ireland.
6. Cathal is also exploring “reality transform” technology, which uses projection and AI to overlay generated imagery onto real-world objects or people in real time, raising possibilities for artistic expression, immersive experiences, and creative AI-human interaction.
7. Open-source philosophy underpins his approach, favoring tools like Jitsi for secure video communication and advocating community-driven development to prevent centralized control over truth verification systems, while also exploring broader societal shifts like cultural speciation and cooperative AI-human-nature systems.