Rants about Compost Sh*tting, Plant Metabolism, Compensation Point, Etc

Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
And in that moment, that's when I know if you're
running a shit compost, So you got to tumble. You
got a compost tumbler and you're literally putting your feces
in it. Tay, he's taking his own feces and he's
shipping on a piece of cardboard, and then he goes
and he plops it in a compost tumbler with a
bunch of pine shavings and a weight mass a weight
ratio of roughly two to one. It's two times the

(00:22):
weight of your shit, of your turd in pine shavings. Okay,
you really got to balance out that carbon nitrogen ratio.
Ladies and gentlemen, welcome to the crime Pas. But Bodany
doesn't podcast really on one today as as sometimes I am.
I think it's a you know, it's a brutal hot
summer here. That dog dick afternoon has started. It's it's

(00:45):
you know, temperatures of one hundred and five with abundant humidity.
It's too hot to go outside. We're trapped inside done
here in the Rio Grand Valley heat island of South
Texas and forever forever more. It's it should not be
referred to this region's colloquially known as the Rio and
Valley from here on out because of the love of
asphalt and the hatred of plants, tree cover especially. They

(01:07):
hate tree cover down here. This area should be known
as from here on out the Rio Grande Valley Heat
Island of South Texas. We have an abundance of strip
mall shopping centers. Everything is hot all the time. There's
absolutely no concept of using plant cover or shade structures
to keep things out of the sun. It's just what
you do here. Trees are messy. Plant life is messy.

(01:30):
We need to cut it down. We need to mow,
we need to completely eradicate it. We're going to bake
the ground into a solid brick. This clay silty soil. Anyway,
you could tell I'm emotionally coping with the dominant culture
where I live, which again hates plant life. Anyway, today
we're talking about a variety of subjects. We're going to
talk about compensation point, why you can't grow cool seasoned

(01:51):
plants and hot climates and vice versa. How temperature relates
to plant metabolism. And that's not across universal scale, not
all species are the same. Obviously, it depends on where
a plant has evolved. And if a plant spent millions
of years evolving in an alpine zone, it's not someddenly
going to evolve the ability or be able to evolve

(02:11):
the ability to grow in a tropical climate, and vice versa.
So that's something we always got to talk about down
here especially, and that's that's been a restriction for me. Okay,
why not I live here?

Speaker 2 (02:21):
Not?

Speaker 1 (02:21):
I live here in a Rio Grand Valley heat Island,
and I used to live in you know, Northern California,
much more temperate zone. There's so many plants, wonderful cloud
forest plants, paromo plants, these you know, pieces symbols of
these these wonderful mechanisms, these pieces of this living machine
that evolved in another place, like the paramo at high

(02:42):
elevations and lower latitudes, or or perhaps in the cloud
forest five or six thousand feet in chiopus, you know,
a liquid ambar for a sweet gum forests and beautiful chiapas,
everything covered in orchids and bromeliads and other epiphytes, you
like mosses. Nobody ever pays attention to the moss. I
ever pays attention to the mosses, and that epiphytic liver

(03:04):
ward is not a moss. It frequently gets confused as
a moss. I did. I made the same mistake. I
put out a video today. Let me just go off
on this for a minute. I put out a video
today and it was on uh. It was called a
chlorophalis thiefs thiefs with an FS. Apparently I'm a jackass.

(03:25):
I never used the word thieves plurals. I didn't know
it had been a while, it's been a few years.
A Chlorophalis thiefs of Desert Sky Islands. And someone made
a comment I plawed them for this. This was good.
It was like, the botanic nomenclature is on point, your
concepts of natural selection and evolution around point, but you
still use the wrong word. You used thiefs, like your

(03:47):
fucking grammar is just I couldn't. I just started laughing.
I was like, holy fuck, I was really, I was really,
you know, I don't know what day man, You know
what I didn't. I don't have rich parents sent me
to a high falutin university, you know, and that I'm
going to be saddled with two hundred thousand dollars of

(04:08):
student debt and then still not be able to get
a job because you know, the country we live and
hates science. Isn't that funny. It's like it's a small
minority of people, a small minority of humans that are
smart enough to create the science behind this technology, and
then the whole, the whole general populace gets to use it,

(04:29):
but they don't have to actually work on themselves, or
rather they're part of a culture that doesn't inspire working
on yourself and self education. It's it's mostly just education
for the sake of attaining it the degree so you
get a career, right. It's just like it's the it's
the EO. Wilson quote. You know, we have this godlike technology,
but like there's still these like chimp brains, you know,

(04:50):
to just like fight and fuck and mostly I mean,
I think with humans, the main thing is the social component.
The main thing is the social component. And it's the
same with jimps. It's we need group approval. We need
to be part of the group. We need to feel
like we're part of the group. We need to perform
for the group. We care what they think of us.
All our actions are inspired by the group and the

(05:11):
cool people, the ones that I enjoy being around. The
ones who are stand out as unique or intelligent, are
the ones who generally tell the group to go fuck
itself and say, I'm going to figure this out for
my own as for my own, for my own damn self.
You know, thieves thief The fuck is wrong with me? Ah? Anyway,

(05:33):
do you think that's ever been done before? Anyone's ever
put the word a chlorophilis in front of thieves thieves
plural but spelled use the wrong word for the plural
form of thiefs. Do you think anyone's ever done it?
Probably not. Probably, I think I'm the first jackass to
do that. But anyway, you know, it's all about the

(05:54):
whole experience. My daughters starts school Monday, and her grandparents
were giving me shit. They're like, they were like, you know,
she doesn't like school anymore because you She heard you
say bad things about it and refer to it as indoctrination.
And I said, I did not. First off, that was
nine months ago, and I did do that. It's an
entirely and it is it isn't doctrination. It's entirely Hispanic school.

(06:15):
And you know, I don't give a fuck about a dentyposis,
but it's entirely Hispanic school. And I got a picture
of a dead hockey, a dead hockey and on the
fucking mural. You know, it's like, what the fuck? Where's
like the like? There's no no like appreciation of like.
And I'm certainly not knocking the school that she goes to,
but it's, you know, at this age, she's not going
to like a fucking Waldorf school or something. We don't

(06:36):
have the money for that. But and I don't think
there's even any in this area, right, But when you
go to school, it's one, especially at that age, it's it's, yeah,
you learn your letters and stuff. But it's also a
great way to you know, shelve kids away so their
parents can go work, you know, underpaid shit jobs for
five days out of the week, like it. And then
it's also a way to teach kids to follow rules,

(06:58):
not teaching them how to think, just teaching them how
to follow rules. Be good, follow rules, don't question. I
want my kid to know why the rule exists and
then choose whether or not to follow it, Because some
rules are stupid. I don't want her to follow every
rule Some rules don't need to be followed. Some rules
are written by morons. Some rules are very stupid. Some

(07:19):
rules are actually dangerous. You could actually harm yourself if
you follow the rule. So I don't. I don't, that's
not you know, I think, I guess. I just think
about this and it drives me nuts. But anyway, her,
you know, her grandparents were like, we want her to
get a career. I was like, she's fucking five, Like
she's she's not, you know, and she's gonna miss a
week as school next week since she's five. And she's

(07:40):
also she's not missing AP calculus okay, and she's like
missing like an AP calculus study week. She's she's like
missing you know, kindergarten. So but it is, yes, we
all believe it's it is important, routine, et cetera. That's
all very important. It's more important to teach kids to think,
how to think, how to think critically, how to question everything.

(08:03):
Why is the sky blue? Why is this? Why is that?
The minute they stop questioning, that's when you know they're
they're fully absorbed into the system and they'll just take
any shit that's given to them. Anyway, I don't know,
I'm really off on one here, but uh yeah, I
just get worked up. I think that's all it is.
I think the school sucked for me. I didn't really
start learning until much later, because you're just taught to

(08:26):
follow rules and get good grades on the test and
that's it. There's no I had to teach myself how
to think, how to think critically. And most people I
see don't know how to think still don't know how
to think. They're how to think critically, figure shit out
for themselves. You know. It's and now it's so easy too,
Like these days it's so fucking easy because of you know, computers,

(08:47):
and there's computers everywhere. You got a computer in your pocket,
twenty four access to the library, fucking AI. You know.
Don't use it in a way. It'll make you stupid.
Some people are completely against it, but you know what,
it's here and your little use of it is pissing
in the ocean. Don't use it to like make you know,
cartoon cartoon dogs driving fire truck images, you know, or
something this was popped into mind, you know, or like

(09:11):
a gurgling toilet belching forth, Oh this effluent that would
be a nice metaphor. That's a metaphor for a lot
of pop culture today. You know, don't use it for
stuff like that. Use it to teach yourself if you're
going to, and if you can avoid doing it, if
you just do a good old Google search, you know,
by reading papers or whatever. That's always fun too, but
it's always good. You got a day off, wake up,
drink your coffee, sitting in front of the computer, and

(09:32):
just think up fucking questions to ask the internet, only
resorting to AI if you absolutely have to. But you know,
for shit, man, I don't know, it really can be helpful.
I was using AI to help, you know, practice my Spanish,

(09:53):
you know, and it's like it's there. Anyway, we're gonna
have to deal with it, like the fucking electricity demands
and all this stuff going up. You might as well
use it for something good. But be mindful, you know,
be mindful when you're using it of how heavy of
an impact this shit has and also how it's going
to be used to enslaversh one day. Anyway, So let's

(10:15):
talk about temperature. Is it corresponds to plants? Okay? And
why you know, one of the things that happened to me,
this is why I'm talking about this. When I had
the move to South Texas, I realized that a lot
of stuff I grew in the Bay are a lot
of plants I loved, like Solandra bracket klyx, this night
shade vine that I just saw at nine thousand feet

(10:35):
in the cloud forest the Costa Rica, climbing up a
massive oak ninety feet up in oak. I wasn't gonna
be able to grow those where I live because they're
not They're from two different of a climate. And even
if I could water it and keep it water, it's
not just drying out. Water is not really even an
issue here. It is. I mean, I do live half
an hour from the Peyote Gardens, but it's so humid

(10:57):
all the time. The air is so humid, and that's
what causes the nighttime temperatures to stay high because water vapor,
of course, doesn't let go of heat as easily water holes.
It's got a high heat capacity, especially you know, if
it's in the air, if it's humid, so humid, human
nights of course don't cool off. You'll notice the difference
when you go from a humid climate, if you've grown

(11:18):
up in some place like the East coast of North
America and you go to like the deserts of New
Mexico or Wyoming or whatever. It's you know, ninety five
degrees in Wyoming is going to cool off the probably
sixty five at night. It's amazing because there's no humidity
to hold that heat in anyway. And I brought a
couple plants with me. I knew it was probably a
lost cause, but I brought a couple of plants with

(11:40):
me when I moved out here from the West anyway,
and they just declined. They would not grow. They just declined,
even like trico serious. It's like, you know, the trike bros.
I wonder how many of them even are aware of this.
But like when I was living in California, in a
cool maritime climate of California, and it's like that in

(12:00):
San Diego, that's like the best climate for tricosirious growing.
And I'm just using this as an example because there's
so many people that grow them. The tric bros. Dude,
you know, San Diego is like the best climate for
trichosirius pacanoi. And you can they'll get to or approve
vianus or whatever the shit they're growing these fucking clones.
These dudes have made. Some of them are insane, like

(12:21):
they's like diameter of a thigh, just like these blue colors.
Lots of wax, probably very high mescaline content as well.
If you're into that sort of thing, and they you know,
they'll get fifteen feet twenty feet tall in that climate
and they'll put on three feet a year. I mean,
they grow so fast. I had a tricosirious pac and
oi in my backyard in Oakland, and this thing would

(12:42):
put on two or three feet a year. And every
time I got so tall, I would cut it and
give it to someone and they'd root it. Whatever you said,
the gift that keeps on giving. Right, But then when
you they'll grow here in South Texas and this heat,
but they grow a lot slower, They grow a lot slower.
And why is It's got to do with metabolism, and
it's got to do with something called compensation point. And

(13:05):
so what compensation point refers to, what all this refers
to is the energy balance. Right, Photosynthesis generates carbohydrates, it
generates sugars, and then metabolism a plant's metabolism being dependent
and temperature like in the Andes at nine thousand feet
where Trichocrius pacinoi grows in Peru, it'll be hot during

(13:28):
the day, it'll be you're only like, what is it
eleven degrees twelve degrees latitude south, but you're nine thousand
feet up, so it's not hot and balmy and tropical.
What is the actually what is the west coast of
lowland Peru?

Speaker 3 (13:40):
Like?

Speaker 1 (13:40):
I would love to see that anyway. I would imagine
it's somewhat humid, maybe not, though I don't know. I
know coastal Chile is very foggy. Coastal northern Chile is
very foggy, but it's very cool. And then you go
inland and it's just fucking dry as a bone. You
go six miles inland from the fog bank from the
Common Chaka and it's just dry as a fuck bone. Barren,

(14:01):
like the most barren place I've ever seen. It's crazy,
you know, barren like the insides of my colon. So
they told me a few weeks ago when I went
for it for a colon, asked me, you said, you
get so you have a very healthy colon. It's the
most sparkling colon. It looked like somebody mopped and waxed
the floors in there. The wall it's like an auditorium
and it's so clean. The walls are beautiful. I didn't

(14:22):
have any polyps or nothing. I said that. I'm only
you know, I'm in my early forties, but come from
a long line of Daego's that get colon cancer because
they eating fucking mozzarella balls and you know, meat balls,
all this shit. Anyway, I digress. So you know, the
coastal Chile, even at like four thousand feet, it's a
steep coastline too, because you got that Nazca plate right

(14:43):
to the west, diving beneath the South American continent. So
you get, oh, that's what causes the annies to go uplift. Right.
So anyway, nine thousand feet in prew where Trecho Series
Provianna scrows, he gets hot days and then it gets
you know, cool nights, because you're up at nine thousand feet,
the air is very thin and there's also no not
that much humidity in it, and so it loses moisture

(15:04):
very fast, right, and so hot hot, warm days, cool nights.
And you know, Tricho series being a cactus, it can
take the heat. That's not the thing that shuts it down.
It can take the heat of South Texas, but those
warm nights are gonna fuck it up because the metabolism
doesn't stop. It doesn't shut down, so it keeps going.

(15:24):
It's burning energy. It's the machines running. Right. There's a
completely different case for alpine plants. Like alpine plants, a
lot of them just you know, they've their metabolism has
evolved at nine thousand, ten thousand foot elevation and say
the Rocky Mountains, right, I'm talking about tropical alpine plants,
talk about Rocky Mountain alpine plants. So they're gonna all

(15:47):
their enzymes that they use for photosynthesis, they're gonna start
shutting down or just breaking, just just slowly decomposing when
you try to grow them at lower elevations or in
say a very hot environment. Right, all those enzymes that
you know, RuBisCO atp synthases, all that stuff evolved to

(16:10):
work best at near freezing to cool temperatures like you
would expect it. You know, fucking where did I see
some of the alpine areas have been to in Wyoming?
Amazing beautiful?

Speaker 3 (16:20):
Was it?

Speaker 1 (16:21):
I don't think it was eight thousand feet. Though I
forget what elevation it was. It was fucking high. You know.
Obviously the higher up in latitude you go, the less
high in elevation you have to go to get similar conditions. Right,
So anyway, but anyway, these plants. You know, if a
plant's machinery have evolved to work at a certain temperature
and function at a certain temperature, that has taken evolving

(16:43):
to do. They had to evolve that. There had to
be enough phenotypic change ups within the different components of
the genome to allow that thing to function at cooler temperatures. Right,
And as you can't automatically because of all that work involve,
You can't automatically just take it down to lower elevations
and try to grow it in Phoenix or god forbid,
in Florida even worse because of the humidity and expect

(17:06):
it to run fine. Now, the machines adapted to working
at this the things that enable it to work at
this elevation and in this climate and aren't going to
make it very hard to grow in this other climate.
So it's all about temperature, right, So we're talking basically
about how temperature corresponds the plant. So obviously if you
try to grow alpine plants at a lower elevation, it's

(17:28):
not going to work, right, It's that they're just not
built for it, Okay, But that's not the case with
like trichoseries, with growing cac you know, these higher elevation
Peruvian tropical latitude cacti in the heat because they could
take the heat. That's not the issue. The issue is
not that they can't take the heat. They're built for

(17:49):
the heat. They can get hot up there, even though
you're at eight thousand and nine thousand feet, right, you're
at such a low latitude to get blasted with sun
your higher elevation, so there's the atmosphere stinger you get more.
And also you're at such a low latitude even though
you're so high up, you're still getting a lot of sun.
That's not the issue. The issue is the nighttime temperatures.
So it's not really correct for me to say you

(18:12):
can't grow cool seasoned plants in hot climates, all right,
because it's kind of a different thing. You can't grow
alpine plants and hot climates because they're just not built
for it. But it should be you can't grow plants
from areas with cool nights in hot climates with warm nights,

(18:33):
whereas and that's mainly due to the humidity. The humidity
is what keeps those nighttime temperatures up. And well again,
why is that because Tricho series just go back to that.
It can take the daytime heat, it can take the sun.
What it can't take is that is those knights that
don't cool off. The temperature remains high through the humidity,
so the plant's metabolism stays consistently running, the machine stays on,

(18:54):
and now you're tapping into energy reserves. So all those
carbohydrates you're manufacturing during the day, you know, you're barely
breaking even because the machine never shuts off. At night,
you're spending all those carbs that you made during the day,
you're spending them at night. So what ends up happening
you reduced growth. You know. Again, the compensation point is

(19:17):
the level at which it's basically like the zero markets,
the level at which the energy expenditures equal the energy
that's created during photosynthesis. And when you start falling below that,
now your health starts to decline. If you're just if
you fall low, but you're still above it. Now you're
just going to grow a lot slower, as happens with

(19:40):
tricho serious and hot human climate. So you can grow,
but you'll notice when you get those cool nights like
you do in coastal California or San Diego or something,
the shit grows a ton faster because the machine shuts
down at night. We're not even talking we're not even
getting into the weeds with CAM photosynthesis and all that stuff.
You know the process by where you know CAM plan

(20:00):
it's crass Lacian acid metabolism. Plants take in carbon dioxide
at night's store in the form of malic acid, and
then shut their stomata during the day so they're not
transpiring water in the heat. We're not even talking about that.
We're just talking about metabolic rate, and so that is
what ends up happening. And if if you fall below
that compensation point, then you're gonna be prone. You're not

(20:21):
only gonna actually die, it's gonna be a long, protracted death,
but you're not gonna be able to defend yourself against
things like mites, scale, fungi, et cetera. You're gonna be
able to produce the chemicals that constitute the quote plant's
immune system to defend itself. And so that's what happens
because you're running at night. The machine never shuts off

(20:43):
because the nights don't cool off. So compensation point refers
to the light intensity or CO two concentration at which
the rate of photosynthesis exactly equals the rate of respiration
in a plant. Right, And so again we already talked
about this. You continue to respire at night, you're gonna
bring those levels done. You're gonna get closer to the
compensation number, right, because the compensation point's fixed, all right.

(21:05):
But other things can affect the compensation point, all right,
like like light. Well there's ten of these two types
of compensation points light compensation point in CO two compensation point,
and these don't have to do. This is something separate
from just the machine not shutting off at night because
the nights stay warm and plant metablins dependent on temperature

(21:26):
and so it stays running. This is something different, and
this is something I see, you know. I someone messaged
me like a month ago and they said, I had
this cactus for five years. It was in my apartment.
It survived the whole time, but it never flower And
then I moved apartments. I put it in a sunny window,
or they might even put it outside because you could
put obviously put kect outside in the summer and uh

(21:49):
and it got a bunch more light and then suddenly
it bloomed. It was yeah, it got you raised the compensation,
You raised the the energy reserves. Than the level of
energy reserves, you raise that above the compensation point. So
with all this abundant carbohydrates that were now being created
because it had more light, now it could put that
towards flowering, which it did flowering and reproduction. Boom. There

(22:11):
you go, that's what happened. Cact I need light. Who
knew so? Anyway, in terms of the two of the
two types of compensations for light compensation point, you know
that's that's the minimum light that's required for photosynthesis, the
balance respiration. Right plants, of course they should have mentioned
this before, but everybody knows they're autotrophes. They create their

(22:32):
own energy. They don't have to they don't have to
eat other things. They create their own energy through photos
of this through CO two and light. So you know
the minimum light intensity required for photosynth the balance respiration.
That's that's the light compensation point. Below this light level,
the plant starts consuming more energy than it produces, and

(22:53):
that leads to a net loss, and it also means
that again it doesn't have This is why like plants,
cacti especially. I'm just talking about cacti because it's a
great cacti that aren't getting enough light, like in shady
conditions being abused at the Sewell Ross greenhouse where they're
also infested with mites, and no one's treating them with systemics,
which you basically need to if you're growing caced i

(23:15):
in a greenhouse, because you're gonna get mites in there
at some point. Mites in scale. Right, they're not able
to make enough enough of the compounds, the phyto chemicals
that protect themselves. So you know that's one of the
things they can do, is to to fight off a
really bad mighte infestation. There's nothing you can do, but
but you're gonna they're gonna be able to defend themselves

(23:36):
a little bit if they're getting enough light, right, But
in weakened plants, if they're not getting enough light, and
there it's it's too shady, it's too dark. Now they're prone.
And then you introduce a pathogen you know, or or insects,
insects or a fungal pathogen, and now you're screwed. Now
it's like uphill battle. You got to get them more light.
So that's what I always said. Nothing. I'll tell people,
like you want plants to be their healthiest, get they

(23:58):
they need that. They need light. They need the conditions
that they've evolved in, all right, and they need more light.
If it's if if they full sun plants like a
man's needing, you're growing in the shade, it's gonna eventually decline. Right,
It's not gonna be able to make enough food for itself.
And it's also going to probably get sick. It's probably
going to get infested with scale. And I see that
a lot too. I'll see plants like in pots in

(24:21):
a nursery somewhere or in someone's backyard that look like
shit and the leaves have thrips and they're all speckled.
They're covered in mites. The leaves just that's not like
a bright, vivid green. They're pale, they're speckled. They could
tell something's been sucking on them. You put them in
full sun and light and boom they the pest is
still there, but now they're able to you know, now

(24:42):
they're able to photosynthesize more energy reserves to you know,
create more lush new growth and also create more of
the their immune system, if you want to think of
it like that does better. And they don't. They don't
even have to be treated. You just put them in
full sun and give them the conditions they need and
add with moisture and you keep the roots cool, and boom,
they start doing well and suddenly the mites aren't an

(25:05):
issue anymore. They're still there, they're probably, no doubt feeding
on the plant or the thrips or whatever, but they're
not a problem anymore because this is a healthy plant
and it can probably deal with a certain degree of
mite damage, insect damage, whatever. I mean. Plants have been
doing us for a long time. They're holding up the
entire biosphere. They're kind of meant to get eaten by
other things. It's you know, they make space for that

(25:28):
in their lives. So we talked about light compensation point.
Now let's talk about CO two compensation point, all right,
And CO two compensation point is the minimum CO two
concentration in the surrounding air where photosynthesis equals respiration. Okay,
So of course you know the production of these sugars
is a product of both light and CO two, and

(25:49):
that's why we have two different compensation points because there's
two different factors light intensity and CO two concentration in
the atmosphere.

Speaker 3 (25:57):
No.

Speaker 1 (25:57):
CO two concentration of the atmosphere is four hundred, right,
it's very really, that whole fucking Industrial revolution thing. Four
hundred parts per million, four hundred ppm. All right, So
remember you've got two types of plants when it comes
to carbon fix it. Well, you've got more than that,
but we're talking about C three and C four plants.
C three plants work better at at a at milder

(26:20):
quote milder temperatures, and C four carbon fixation works better.
That's many of the grasses and some euphorbias, et cetera.
They have that Cran's anatomy. Remember it's a specific type
of anatomy where they're with which they It has to
do with how they how they go about photosynthesis and
sequestering carbon in themselves to keep it away from oxygen

(26:41):
so that it doesn't the oxygen doesn't bind with ubisco, right,
That's why they have that special anatomy. The C four
plants do, so lots of grasses, especially at least the
hot season grasses, the cool season grasses, many of them
are just C three But anyway, C three and C
four plants, right, So for C three plants, they've got
a higher carbon carbon dioxide compensation point, which is thirty

(27:03):
to seventy ppm, and for C four plants, they've got
a lower carbon dioxide concentration point zero to ten ppm,
So they only need they only need an atmosphere with
the concentration of the C four plants do of zero
to ten ppm because they can, they're so efficient it
concentrating it and then shuffling it off to those bundle

(27:25):
sheath cells where they can keep it away from oxygen
and it'll get handled, you know, by RuBisCO for photosynthesis,
the enzyme that fixes carbon all right. For C three plants,
you know, these are very low numbers. Obviously, thirty to
seventy ppm, zero to ten ppm, these are very low numbers.
And of course the atmosphere never reaches that low and

(27:49):
probably never has an Earth's history, except well did it ever?
Probably not, no, but there's certain there used to not
be any oxygen on the atmosphere, of course, but that's
something different. So what are we talking about if these
are low numbers, We're talking about the intracellular spaces inside stomata,

(28:09):
the leaf intercellular space is inside the stomata. Once that
CO two has diffused into air spaces within the leaf, right,
which is I think once it gets in there is
still you know, the CO two is tip still at
a density of two hundred three hundred ppm, and then
the CCP, of course is the shred the threshold at

(28:32):
which these internal CO two levels can't support net photosynthesis,
which it just drops too low. So that in other words,
that that you know, forty to seventy ppm for C
three plants, while it seems high, is still really really low.
They're never going to encounter that in Earth's atmosphere, okay,

(28:53):
And that's just shows how efficient they are. I mean,
to have four hundred what's earth savage for four to
twenty ppm of carbon dioxide inside the leaf cells of
like a healthy, fully functioning leaf that's not in drought
or drought stressed or heat is two hundred to three
hundred ppm, right, and they still you have to drop
as low as forty or seventy for the machine to

(29:15):
break for the amount of carbon necessary for the production
of sugars. That's the threshold. You know. Below that, then
now you're in the red. Now you're in the red. Okay,
But keep in mind that for C four plants it's
even lower. It's like zero to ten. And why is that.
That's because of an enzyme called pp carboxylase. So anytime

(29:37):
you hear PEP carboxylates, it should be synonymous with C
four photosynthesis, and PEP carboxylized carboxylates is an enzyme that
C four plants use to concentrate carbon dioxide, and that's
why they can work. It's such low ppms of CO two.
I think it's you know, I think that is actually

(29:58):
one of the defining factors. That is one of the
that's the border line between C three. What defines C
three and C four plants, at least in studies, is
that C three plants are technically defined as anything that's
got a carbon compensation point higher than forty. I think
because you know, lower lower than that, you know, it's

(30:19):
C four plants can work at very low carbon dioxide
compensation points again the zero to ten. And so what
is it about pep CARBOXYLATESE that makes it so so efficient?
That makes C four plants which have this C three
plants don't have it? Well, what makes it them so efficient?
It's it's pep carboxylases is just so good at bonding

(30:42):
to CO two. It bonds to CO two and it
doesn't It's got no affinity for oxygen, so it only
grabs CO two. So it grabs that CO two and
it turns it into oxalo acetate. I always thought it
was malic acid. Is that the same thing as oxalo acetate?
The same thing as malic acid malae? That's not the same.

(31:02):
It's not the same, but they're closely related. So ox
salo acetate, that's it's a four carbon compound. That's where
that's where C four photos and this gets its name.
Uh oaa malle that kind I mean you could for
like for crass lacey and acid metabolism, they use malic
acid malle it to store CO two. Uh So I
think this is the same. Is it the same? I

(31:23):
don't know. PP grabs CO two from the air, even
the low concentrations that it locks it into oxalo acetate,
a four carbon compound, and uh, and of course it's
it's very efficient to do in this. It's like it's
ten to one hundred times faster at fixing CO two
than the RuBisCO enzyme, which is which is what we're

(31:44):
gonna get to later. But we're gonna get to that,
you know, in a in a safe space where the
CO two is concentrated. Later on, we're gonna get to
that in the bundle sheath cells. So that's then, that's
what makes this so fucking efficient, is it? The pp
car box lace grabs the CO two, bonds to it,
super concentrates it, and then it's it's transported to the

(32:08):
bundle sheath cells. Remember that Cran's anatomy for C four photosynthesis,
So that four carbon compound that the malade is shuttled
off to bundle sheath cells where it's then broken down
by enzymes. And that's when the pure CO two is
released and it's released back into the chloroplasts, the surrounding

(32:29):
chloroplasts of the bundle sheath cells, where RuBisCO gets a
hold of it in an oxygen free environment and goes
to town. And now you have you have photosynthesis starting
up at least starting the carbon fixation part of photosynthesis
starting up. And so that's why C four plants are
so efficient, is because they've got this carbon concentrating mechanism

(32:51):
with the help of PEP carboxylase, And that's why they're
so efficient that hot temperatures, so you know, the whereas
the C three kind of starts to break down at
how temperatures, RuBisCO just isn't defficient, and it starts binding
with oxygen at high heat. At the higher temperatures, RuBisCO
just bonds with that with with oxygen more. Oxygen just

(33:13):
competes better than CO two, Right, it's O two's buying.
Oxygen's binding affinity increases while CO two's syllability decreases at
high temperatures. So that that's why this all evolved in
the first place. And why did it Why is because
it seems like a flaw, like the RuBisCO thing. And
I didn't mean to get into talking about fucking C

(33:33):
three and C four photosynthesis. I was just talking about
compensation point and how temperature affects plan metabolism. But we
might as well cover this too, because it's interesting stuff. Right,
Why is this this flaw and RuBisCO like, why why
is this the case? Well, if you look at most
of our's history, RuBisCO evolved three billion years ago, three
billion years ago was in cyanobacteria. Uh, it's it's been

(33:56):
used in single celled algae and eukaryotic cells like the
higher cells, not just measley cyanobactery with the circular DNA,
but in higher life forms, still single cell, but with
a nutritus like many algae, green algae, and so you

(34:17):
know it's an old this is an old enzyme. You
get to cut it some sleck when it back then
when it evolved, you know CO two concentrations were really
high and oxygen was not as abundant. And it's just
it's never been fixed. It's the one thing that has
never been quote fixed. It's evolution has never gotten around this.

(34:38):
It's worked out other ways around this without actually having
to recreate something analogous to the RuBisCO enzyme, which again
is is good at fixing carbon fixing carbon pp carbox
las concentrates carbon. RuBisCO is what's actually needed for photosynthesis.

(34:58):
So there's no there's no analogue anywhere that I know
of to RuBisCO. There's there's no substitute, right, RuBisCO is it?
That's it. That's what we got on planet Earth with
the most important enzyme on planet Earth. You know, replacing
RuBisCO would require rewiring the entire calvit cycle and that

(35:20):
that is a fucking feat man. That is like it's
like reinventing the wheel. Okay, it's like a whole, you know,
And RuBisCO works across all photosynthetic pathways through all all
photosynthetic life forms, so it's kind of the gold standard.
So it's much easier to stick with it and instead
just work around, make work arounds. And again i'm anthropomorphizing here.

(35:42):
That's not how evolution works, right, but you get the idea.
It's it's just trial and error. But you know, it's
much easier for something like C four photosynthesis to evolve,
and indeed it has evolved many many times independently in
separate plant species and clades and lineages. Much easier for

(36:04):
that to happen than to just reinvent photosynthesis or something
analogous to it, all, right, because there's just it's such
an integral piece, and there's so it's there's so many
moving parts. It's a lot of complex shit, right, So
what are you gonna do You're gonna You're gonna reinvent photosynth.
This is a process that's been a standard for three
and a half billion years. Are you gonna Are you

(36:26):
just gonna create a workaround like C four photosynthesis or
CAM photosynthesis in the case of cact iron succulents in
terms of dealing with heat. So anyway, the uh all
this stuff is important too, C three and C four
understanding how it works. I don't know how to fuck
I got to talking about this, so just got a
wild hair up my ass. But C four photos in

(36:49):
this is obviously better, you know, more efficient works in heat.
PEP carbox alas concentrates CO two and because of that reason,
you know, this is a talking point. You always hear
these right wing app us to say, you know, or
like someone someway, the fact you can deny climate change
now is just amazing. You could deny that CO two

(37:09):
traps heat. It's fucking mind by the oil company. Propaganda's
been so good in the United States, especially since the
population is so dumb and getting dumber with every years.
Education kntinues to be defunded and the only purpose of
going to school is seen as to get a degree.
You know, we elevate businessmen and rich fools to the

(37:30):
status of hero, and then scientists unless they're doing something
that creates technology and otherwise sciences they're just seen as
a useless job, is a pointless job. The sheer love
of learning about the world around you is not enough.
You have to be creating something that can be monetized.
What a fucking what is spiritually dead society? Anyway? I digress.

(37:54):
You always hear the talking point that moresleel two is
going to be good for the atmosphere or playoffs. Love it? Yeah,
I guess C three plants for temperate plants, but a
lot of plants are C four. What proportion of plants
do C four photosynthesis? Huh? What is it? I think
it's you know, it's only like three percent of plant species.
A flowering plant species use C four photosynthesis, But this

(38:17):
relatively small proportion of species accounts for approximately twenty to
thirty percent of global terrestrial carbon fixation. All the grasses,
not all, but a lot of grasses. All the crop
plants sugar. All the crop grass is sugar, cane, sorgum, corn, Okay,
all C four photosynthesis? They don't give a shit how

(38:38):
much CO two is in the atmosphere. It doesn't doesn't matter,
because they're so good they could take the smallest amount, right,
Remember it's like zero to ten ppm. They can exist
on zero to ten ppm of carbon dioxide in the atmosphere.
They can use because they're so good at concentrating it

(38:59):
and then shuffling it off to those bundle sheath cells. Go,
do me a favorite type in type in bundle sheath cell,
and then do a Google image search and you'll see what. Well,
you'll see what we're talking about here, those bundle sheath cell.
You could, I mean you could. You could see it
in some cases. Remember my friend Matt Berger showed a
photo of a Euphorbias species. They uses C four photosynthesis.

(39:23):
He used his little hand lens. You could see they
they look like concentric circles, concentric circles of cells around
the vascular bundle bundle. You know, the vascular bundle this
xylem and flume, you know it, right, And you get
the bundle sheath around it with chloroplasts and then concentrically
arranged mesophyl cells wreath like around the bundle sheath itself.

(39:47):
So it just looks like an extra ring of cells
around the vascular bundles. But that's where the magic happens.
That's where the C four it's that pep carbox lase.
That's how they do it, man, that's how they That's
how they that's how they get it. So, you know,
the right wing talking point, the oil company fuck boy

(40:09):
talking point, the oil company who likes to get pegged
by the oil companies? Do you like that? Huh? Does
your right wing uncle like it? I like to get
pegged by the oil companies and some of those guys.
You know, we're trying to win those guys over. You
just got to get them off that oil company propaganda.
It's okay to you know, to admit that humans can
affect the atmosphere. Remember in Texas after the floods. Well,

(40:33):
there's been so fucked up in Texas. This is this
is like the intellect level of a lot of like
dominant culture of Texas and culture of course, remember it
just gets trickled down from from the cultural icons in
a place, the cultural leadership of a place, and then
people just said, okay, they start repeating it, whether it's
left or right. This is just how human culture works.

(40:54):
We're social apes, we're social primates. But one of the
things they were saying was, you know, doing the during
the massive floods that happen, the weather's been so fucked up,
that's kind of undeniable. It's not the CO two, it's
weather modification. It's the weather modification. I used to get
the comments on the YouTube channel all the time, weather modification.

(41:14):
It's like, shit, the fuck up? What are you talking about? Right?
Just I love on the scale of logic. That's how
broken the scale of logic is in some places. Is
it the CO two that we've been pumping into the
atmosphere exponentially for the last one hundred and seventy five years,
or is it the weather modification? What do you just? Like,

(41:35):
what do you think? Because your your cultural affiliation, your
ideological primate group that you're stuck in, won't allow you
to say things like climate change, will be ostracized. So,
you know, just like a lot of like Caucasian progressives
won't let you say the word retard. Even though no
one uses the word retard as a slur against disabled people.

(41:57):
That would be insane and cruel. They only use it
to describe people that are acting retarded, just like that thing,
you know, you get, you get ostracized that way. If
you're on the right and you admit that carbon dioxide
traps heat, you're not, you know, you're gonna raise eyebrows.
So next time your right wing uncle tells you about that,
you start talking about Cran's anatomy and how you know,

(42:20):
all the major monocock crop plants as well as pineapples, well,
pineapples use camp photosynthesis, but all the major monocock crop plants,
sour gum, sugar, cane corn, they don't give a shit
how much CO two is in the Atmosphere're not gonna
benefit from the increased CO two, but they might be
a little more stressed out from the heat and the

(42:40):
erratic weather patterns. So anyway, you say, you know, when
they go off and you tell them, hey, hey, grandpa,
why don't you touch my Cran's anatomy, that's what you
say to them, and then we can start talking about
the plant metabolism. But I wonder going back to the
plant metabolism things. So for tropical plant it's where it

(43:00):
stays so damn warm and humid at night, their respiration
is going at night. Obviously they can't shut that down.
How do they compensate? Are they just how do they
not hit their compensation point? How do not fall below it?
I guess the carbon fixation and photosynthesis during the day
is just running so strong. They grow so vigorously that

(43:24):
warm nights don't affect them. They can continue respiring at night.
And then what is it? There's there is something tropical
plants do they up their leaf nitrogen to? What was that?
Let me let me find I wrote this down in
my notes again. Hold on, now, maybe I misread that wrong.
I'm just seeing stuff about heat shock proteins, which I

(43:46):
had a friend who was studying beeflies and noted that
beeflies many species of beefly flies that look like bees,
or a lot of flies look like bees. But that's
generally speaking. Many species of beefly were important pollinators in
thee because they had hot heat shock proteins to help
them cope with those those really hot days, whereas bees

(44:08):
tend to be more active in the morning and at
least during the hot season mornings before it really heats up.
And I think maybe dusk too. I don't know, but
I'm seeing for tropical plants heat shock proteins, and then
OSMO protected which are you know, like a osmoltes, which
I think you know, compounds that help maintain cell water

(44:28):
balance and protect cellular components under heat stress. There was
there was a paper I came across as well called
Handling the Heat Photosynthetic Thermal Stress in Tropical Trees a
number of authors. The lead author was Lassie Tarvenen and
this is from October twenty twenty one, and I think

(44:51):
this paper mostly focuses on photosystem two and its sensitivity
to to heat. Photosystem two is of course, you remember,
photosystem two comes before photosystem one in photosynthesis, and that's
where water is split in photosystem two, and then the

(45:12):
electrons from that process are used to power the fixation
of carbon in photosystem one. But photosystem two is essential.
It's called it two comes before one because it was
discovered after one. So it's counterintuitive, kind of like how
the pistol is the female part of the flour. Anyway,
that photosystem two shuts. That's very heat sensitive. It's especially

(45:36):
heat sensitive. There's a number of reasons for that. It's
also one of the most critical points. I mean, it
is the most it's like the whole electron transport chain
shuts down at photosystem two stops being very efficient. And
this paper mentioned I think it was a critical threshold
is a temperature at which fifty percent of PS two

(45:58):
function is lost T fifty. This is a standard measure
of heat tolerance. Research shows that the T fifty of
many tropical tree species is only a few degrees above
the maximum leaf temperatures they currently experience in their natural habitat.
So this leaves a very narrow safety margin quote unquote,

(46:19):
which makes you wonder what's going to happen with climate change.
But again I think most of the warming happens is
going to be happening at higher latitudes, and most of
the warming, like the weather is going to get more
fucked up everywhere, but higher latitudes are going to warm
much more now, like which is what you see in Chicago.
Chicago doesn't get brutal winters like it used to. There's

(46:40):
still fucking brutal by any measure of degree of anybody
saying that lives in the lower latitudes, but they're not
like they used to be. It's freaky. I remember as
a kid growing up, we'd be sledding in November, and
that's unheard of. If you're going to go sledding, it's
not going to happen till January February. And it just
doesn't get as old as it used to, which again

(47:02):
is not saying much. It used to get like twenty
five thirty below and the snow had the consistency of sand.
You felt like you were on frigid dunes with all
this powdery snow just blowing. I remember like looking at
the streets in Chicago where they'd be plowed, but there'd
be a layer of ice on them, and then there'd
be just these waves of sand like snow particles. Like

(47:26):
you couldn't make snowballs out of this stuff. It was
too frozen, it was too cold, it didn't pack together.
It'd be like trying to make a snowball out of sand.
It's wild. It's essentially just really hard ice, tiny ice crystals.
But I think most of the warming is definitely gonna
happen at higher latitudes, and that's what happened in the
e scene, I think, which is fifty five million years ago.

(47:48):
That's how those don redwood forests got on Axel Heiberg
island in the Arctic. You know, someone should write a review.
Go to Google maps to write a positive review for
axel Heiberg Island. You know, just just give it a
shout out. I would love to go there and see
some of those fossil medicicoia for us. What was it?
Was it acxul Hiberg. Let me see this. Shout out

(48:10):
to the fossil don redwood forest on axel Heiberg Island
up there in the Arctic, far far northern north of Canada. Oh,
beautiful photos online. Oh look at these. Fuck take me there,
Take me daddy. Oh I want to go big massive

(48:30):
tree stumps. Jesus Christ. Oh, look the Hooper Museum. Where's
the Hooper Museum? Oh at a Hooper museum is I
think it's in Canada. Yeah, that's pretty cold. Go up
to Canada. Yeah. Studies have been done comparing the modern
analogs of these fossils. So shout out to the east scene.
This is after the comment knocked out the dinosaurs or

(48:50):
the asteroid, and you know, mammalian life was getting going.
It was already going strong fifty five million years ago.
Lots of plan but there's some fucking wonderful fossils up there.
God like bad Lands formations, except it's frigid. How do
you charter? How do you charter a trip to Axel Hybrid.

(49:11):
Let's go, let's fucking go. Get in the fucking vague.
We're going up there. I don't care how we got
to get in there. We're going up to Axle Hybrid.
But anyway, Yeah, so God, that would be an amazing flora.
If you could go back in time, where would you
go back to? You know, for a botanical expedition, you
didn't have to worry about getting eaten by anything. Say, mate,

(49:32):
they put you in one of those little hamster balls,
like in that shitty Jurassic Park sequel that came out
that I only saw because my daughter wanted to watch it.
I'm lying, I wanted to watch it too a little bit.
But you know, uh, you know, you get one of those,
you just go do a botanic a floristic survey. You're
not gonna get eaten by any large abrasive mambles. He

(49:54):
was emotionally abusive. He was emotionally abusive. Uh uh, ground
ground slows didn't go what were some of what were
some large predatory mammal families. I don't know, but anyway, Yeah,
so the most of the warming is going to be
at the higher latitudes because that's where more of the

(50:15):
discremacy is. And again that's why we get those cold
spells deep in deep Texas because the jet stream gets
all fucked up, and now that cold air is not stable,
it's not contained up north. It's you get that wavering
jet stream in January Februy, and you're gonna get a
cold dip, you know, and then people are going to
be freezing to death in their homes in Texas, especially

(50:36):
since the state, you know, the power company has basically
been bought out by corrupt politicians or owned the it
bought corrupt politicians. So it's all privatized. When did they
privatize the energy grid twenty years ago? That's when it
made everything more expensive. Like everything is privatized in Texas.
It's like the typical like reaganomic sweat dream. We don't

(50:58):
believe in publicly funding anything. Dam it. Got to keep
those tax rates low, even though the property tax rates
here through the roof there's high as California anyway, speaking
of the tropics, I looked at the weather for Guanacaste,
Costa Rica in the northwest where I was in April,
and it was the floor was all crunchy from all

(51:19):
the leaves. It's a drought deciduous tropical forest, which again
many people in northern latitudes don't know is even a thing.
But it was very dry, and it was but it
was still humid, and it reminded me a lot of
South Texas where I live, of the subtropical climate down here,
except they get far more rain. It's just, of course seasonal.
And I looked at the weather recently and it was

(51:41):
raining every day. It's just they get, you know, two
meters of rain a year, which but still, you know,
Corcasolioides I probably one of the most heat tolerant oaks,
grows there on the limestone. Fine, I need to get
acorns of that, man, they need to get quircusoloides acorns
grows south of me Aleapus too, but that would be

(52:02):
you know, it's it needs high rainfall during the summer months,
but it can take that. It's still incredibly heat tolerant.
I don't know why they don't plant caurcasolioides instead of
the what is the oak they plant it down here.
It's not even like it's not even Corcas fusiformists, which
is native, you know, sixty miles north of here, they

(52:22):
plant Corcas virginiana from probably from Florida, I think is
where most of those commercial nurseries are. But uh, you know,
got to use the tools that were built for the land.
So I bet carcasolioides if it's not you know, well,
human land clearance fucks it up. But I bet it
would have if there were no people in the climate
was changing like it is. I bet carcasoloites would be

(52:44):
migrating north into Texas. I don't know why it doesn't
occur here already, seems like it's great for it. But anyway,
but we don't get as much rain as you get
when you head further south into the tropical latitudes. We're
twenty six degrees here, so it's hot as balls, but
it's not quite the tropics yet. We don't get as
much rain. We don't get that pronounced wet and dry season.

(53:07):
But I mentioned this. I mentioned the rainfall because that's
what the tropics have. Of Course, they've got high rain,
so they're able to compensate with these hot temperatures by
evappo transpiration. It's basically plants sweating, and so that is
how many plants keep their leaf temperatures down. But of

(53:27):
course to do that you need water. You need moisture
in the first place, which plants, if you're growing in
a desert, don't have. So you've got this warming versus
drying conflict. You've got this critical dilemma to avoid thermal damage.
If you're a plant, you need to transpire moisture out
of your stilmata, you know, which if water goes from
a liquid to a gas state that requires heat energy,

(53:49):
it pulls it from the surrounding tissue and atmosphere. But
if you've got a fixed amount of if you only
got a fixed amount of moisture, that's gonna be a
problem for you. And so to avoid you know, hydraulic
failure during drought, you know, to avoid cavitation, you just
need You're gonna need to stop transpiring too. So that's

(54:10):
why many plants in the desert have hairs of course,
to limit moisture loss, reflect sunlight, reduce the reduce, create
their own shade screen basically help keep leaf temperatures down.
But when you go to the tropics, where it's equally hot.
Doesn't get I don't think it ever gets any of
these tropical forests up to like one hundred and five.

(54:31):
There's just too much moisture in the atmosphere for it
to do that, too much water to heat up. But
a lot of tropical plants will have big, big leaves,
big leaf surfaces, not a lot of hair, glabrous, the
opposite of what desert plants will have. And that's because
they've got so much moisture. Well, one of the reasons
they would they would rot if they had hairs, because

(54:53):
it's so humid. But also they've got so much moisture.
It's not an issue there because it rains every day
that they can just continue sweating so and that of
course keeps keeps them cool and keeps the surrounding area
much cooler than it would otherwise be in say, you
know a lowland forest on the equator where it's just
getting blasted with sunlight, and it should by all intents

(55:15):
and purposes, it should be hot as fuck, but it's
not as hot as it could be because of all
that moisture. But then again, when you scrape away all
the plant cover now you're just blasting the sun with heat.
And that's the main that's the main thing that drives
me nuts about And I mentioned this in the podcast
all the time, is the fucking the heat island. The

(55:35):
heat island created by mowing and just fucking cutting the
forest away. And it's so fucking infuriating, man, you know
I was. I went on this bike ride last night,
which I've been doing lately. It's a nice way to get,
you know, exercised down here because the landscape kind of
makes you fatty. There's nowhere you can't get exercise anywhere

(55:56):
unless you go to a gym and you know, breathing
off gassing plastic and listen to shitty music and hear
the meatheads grunting every time they dropped the weights. But
but you know, so I wanted this bike ride. We
meet up, there's all these Spandex guys. I don't wear
a fucking Spandex. You'll never catch me wearing fucking span X.
I used to be a bike messenger in New York.

(56:16):
I did it in Chicago. I liked it because everybody
that did it was mostly an alcoholic anyway, there was
a high turnover rate. You didn't have to. You could
make it a good amount of money, get exercise, be outside,
not have to deal with the general public too much,
at least not in any way that could threaten your job.
And uh, and it was fucking it was great, you know,

(56:36):
and make it these amount of money again and you
could quit, you know, the high turnover rate a lot
of these messenger companies, and you just quit, go work
for another company. They don't give a shit either. This
is mostly a job that's gone now. It was restricted
and I think now it's mostly restricted to delivering weed
and food. But you know, in the early two thousands,
it was still there was still a demand for it.

(56:58):
I did it here, I did in Chicago, I did
it in New York, I did it in San Francisco,
and it was fun. You know, it was your time,
was your own for the most part. But anyway, I
went on this bike ride last night with these uh,
with these the Spandex guys, and I just, you know,
I just you need a group to ride with down

(57:19):
here because the drivers are so bad and all the
infrastructure is built for cars. It's a real shithole. So
you know, you're safer in a large group. So there
were like eight of us, and they're all cool. I
think I was the only one that didn't speak fluent Spanish.
But anyway, we're biking around and we're going we bike
down to the border wall where it's all been cleared
and it's all ballast laid down and it's hot as fuck.

(57:40):
And then there was a little parcel of quote brush,
which is really just thorn forest. It's not even thorn scrub.
It's thorn forest. It's thick, almost impenetrable. Uh you know
miscuit and anaqua and whatever else forest. Uh, you know,
primary or secondary secession forest, because it's all been cleared

(58:02):
for agriculture at some point right there in a border
right there, about a real grand And when we go
by that massive forest, the temperature drops and it smells
good and it's like a cool breeze and it's because
of all the plants there. And this is the thing
that drives me nuts that humans in a lot of
places just have not connected the fucking dots. Yet you

(58:24):
still got this archaic European probably comes from Europe, Eurasia,
Europe and Asia, this feeling that the forest is threatening,
the plant life is messy. It needs to be cleared.
It's like, no, motherfucker, that's Earth's air conditioning system. Leave it,
you know. And then of course you see the tropical clearance,

(58:47):
the tropical forest clearance that goes on. It gets brutal
to see. I mean, look at any map of the
tropics anywhere. I mean I was looking at a map
of Honduras because I might go there next year in February,
trying to get Allen to go with to a lot
of mushroom diversity, especially northwest hon Durnas. Some guy who's
a herpetologist invited me down there and anyway, uh, and

(59:12):
it's like, you know, everything's carved up. There's just you know,
clearance for agriculture, clearance for it. It's fucking it's depressing.
But then you also just think, yeah, you clear a
little patch, it doesn't do that much when you've got
to when you're clearing land on the scale that human
beings are doing it today, it's it's insanity. It's just

(59:32):
big of it heats everything up. I mean, you see
where the mass extinction comes from. You see how it's palpable,
You see how it's real, and and just the heat
island effect too, I mean the whole concept of heat
islands living in a hot place, like, I'm surprised it's
there's not more trees where I live, Like, the city's

(59:55):
not planting more trees. That would make too much sense.
They're more interested in embezzling money from their friends who,
you know, for their friends who have construction and development
firms here, very very dirty city politics, or just a
bunch of phrases in there, you know, with their fucking
botox and perfumes and expensive suits and all this shit.

(01:00:18):
You know, probably getting work done. You know, it's probably
fucking dudes, a lot of dudes getting facelifts to it.
But it's such a weird fucking this except that you're old.
I can't wait to be an old, haggard bastard. It's
fucking twisted. I need to figure out what I'm going
to tell my daughter about the makeup thing. You don't
need to wear makeup. If you want to, that's fine,
but don't Society is gonna fuck your head up and

(01:00:39):
tell you that you need to wear it. Don't fucking
put it on unless you really made the decision that
you want to. Don't do it for anyone else. It doesn't
don't think that you need this to be pretty. Any
of that shit, it's all part of the fucking it's
all part of the disease. But you know, I'm surprised
that this city's here. Don't plant more tree that would

(01:01:01):
reduce the heat everywhere. It makes it ten degrees cooler.
It's insanity. You know. My neighbor, the guy across the
street that's got the scam adult daycare business, he called
the cops on me for planting trees, which is again
I tell people that and they're blown away. If I
knew that code enforcement wouldn't mess with me for planting
trees and the hell strips, I'd be doing it, you know,

(01:01:23):
once or twice a day, every day, planting trees like
that's a great. That's the thing I can do to
make where I live less shitty. But it's illegal here.
It's against code enforcement. The plant trees in a spot
where it's one hundred and five degrees fahrenheit, you know,
fuck for six months out of the year easily for

(01:01:46):
you metric system and Celsia's listeners. Remember it's one hundred
and five minus thirty divided by two fahrenheit degrees minus
thirty divided by two, So that's seventy five seventy four
divided by two, that would be what is it, thirty
seven degrees celsius. It's thirty seven degrees celsius for six

(01:02:08):
months out of a year. Fucking unbelieva. And we have
the moisture, much higher rainfall than places like Phoenix. We
get the moisture for trees to survive once they're established.
Why is it illegal? You know, I should just go
to Heap's nursery and get a shit ton of tepewahes
fastest growing tree here, lukena pulver olenta, and just start
knocking on the doors of home owners and being like, yo,

(01:02:28):
can I plant this in front of your house on
a hell strip? Plant it, steake it, mulch it, and
then just go back to water with a you know,
a ten gallon. Maybe I'll wait till the cools off
a little bit. It's fucking hot now. But they're resilient trees, man.
Once you get them in the ground, they not they
may not take off, you know the first year, but

(01:02:50):
they'll they'll hang in there and then once you get
some rain you can water and then they just shoot up.
I mean, you can get you can get a tepewahe
to twenty feet tall in two years. It's insane. It's
and it's it's thin wood. It's not super strong wood.
They could get you know, two foot diameter breast tight.
But that I mean, that's like such a great candidate.

(01:03:11):
Those are just fucking miskeats too. Some of the miskeuaits
where I live, Holy Hell, I was with me and
my kid were biking to the coffee shop there that
they going through an alley. You know, there's this little
terrier that comes out and chases chases us every time,
and I always, you know, threatened to put him in
a sandwich whenever I whenever I go by, you know,
because he tries to come nip at our heels. Nobody

(01:03:33):
keeps their dogs indoors here, so everything's dogs tied up
or fucking brutal. It's dog torture. But but we went
by this miskeit that was like it doesn't get that
tall and then it kind of leans over, but it's thick.
It's like a foot and a half diameter and it
kind of leans over comes back, hits the ground doesn't

(01:03:53):
root into it. You know, it's probably eighty feet wide
by twenty feet tall. Just a beautiful tree, but it's
seen as as brush is, like a pest species here.
Absolutely insane. I gotta go around taking pictures of some
of the dying crape myrtles dead and dying crape myrtles here.
I love seeing that. Anyway, I never fancied myself one

(01:04:14):
that would be prone to getting into tropical botany. It's
just not as exciting to me, or wasn't it is
now wasn't as exciting to me as deserts always have been.
Deserts in cloud forests, I should say lowland tropical botany,
because parmos and cloud forests those are tropics, but they're
high elevation, right. It's a climate of the Sunset district

(01:04:35):
of San Francisco on the foggiest summer afternoon, but with
much more rain. But the tropics are just fascinating.

Speaker 3 (01:04:44):
Man.

Speaker 1 (01:04:44):
It's just such a massive amount of biomass and everything's alive,
and it's so noisy, and it's just the insect the
singing insects are fucking wild. I was speaking of Costa
Rica again. I was thinking about this one of the
keystone species down there, as a plant called Terolobium ciclo carpum,

(01:05:06):
and it's a mimosoid. It's called the elephant ear tree.
It creates this thing that looks like a tamarind that's
been bent into a U shape. It looks exactly like
an ear the fruit does, and it's beautiful, and it's
got like this resinous stuff in it, this resinous pulp
probably has ten to twelve seeds resinous pulp in it.

(01:05:27):
But these intero Lobium can get absolutely fucking massive, man,
I mean just they get really really tall. They're like
the iconic tropical tree. I think this is the national
tree of Costa Rica as well. But in Terolobium ciclo carpum,
it's a mimosoid. It's got the little mimosoid flowers just
like a Tepawahe gets fucking massive, massive totem pole of

(01:05:49):
a trunk, just a massive giant telephone pole column of
a trunk, and then it spreads out, gets really broad
up top. And I remember there were there was a
spot I went to where it was only like two
or three trees that comprised the entire covering of this
soccer field. Like their canopy was so broad it covered

(01:06:10):
this soccer They had a soccer field in this town
set up under it, you know, where people would play.
It was fucking incredible, you know, and there's the cicadas
and everything. It was so loud, but uh yeah, god,
it was a really cool, really cool tree species, just
just massive that. And then I saw Cassia Cassia grandis

(01:06:31):
as well, which cassi has you know, related to senate.
I think it's uh it's it's a say cell pinioid,
say cell pinoid. It's like a pink sayceell peneoid flowers,
So that subfamily of the legging family to say cell pinuate.
Some of the coolest ones po Maria Senna Hoffmann, Segia

(01:06:54):
Kama krishta. But it's but they're pink, pink, pink, a
bunch of pink and yellow pink flowers, like a little
yellow striation on them. But that same flower structure really cool.
But another fucking massive tree and it forms these again
these fruits that have a little bit of pulp in them,

(01:07:14):
kind of look like ice cream beans, you know, And
so that pulp is what gets eaten while the seeds
get spit out, and that's how the tree is dispersed.
So all right, enough about that, I guess for now.
Shuffling back over to the North American continent, we were

(01:07:35):
in Pueblo County, Colorado, specifically, when I was heading south,
I was leaving Colorado Springs. I've been hanging out there
for a few days. Very nice, very high elevation. They're
having drought issues or water issues. Of course, I guess
the water table's dropping, but it's dropping everywhere. There's not

(01:07:55):
enough water. I'm sure the data centers will only help that.
I am telling you to use AI to teach yourself stuff,
use it responsibly. I don't think your contribution is going
to drain the fucking aquafer. It's it's the horrible things
that the many companies are using it for that's gonna
do it. But regardless, going south, driving through Pueblo, around

(01:08:20):
Pueblo County, right well around Pueblo, Colorado, shick it's really interesting.
There's a couple endemic Areagonum species. There's a cool fizaria.
Most of the cool Colorado endemics seam centered around the
Grand Junction area to the west. But there's I mean,
there's cool shit all throughout the state. But the really

(01:08:41):
the the really rare endemic seam around the Grand Junction area.
But there was a few in Pueblo. West of Pueblo,
like up into the front Range, and I didn't I
didn't get a chance to see those. I had to
I had time I had to make but I did stop.
I think, yeah, like south of Pueblos, somewhere the road

(01:09:03):
started getting really interesting. I was just blazing through on
the interstate, and I started seeing these road cuts, and
I started seeing mentzelia deca pedola, the white mentzelia. It's
like three feet tall, big white flowers, probably moth pollinated.
Probably bumblebees hit it too, but probably especially moths. And
so I the terrain started getting interesting, so I got off.

(01:09:24):
I gotta see this. I needed to take a walk anyway.
And I found this cool little area of like these
calcareous shale barns with juniper sporadically growing around it. And
I just parked and got out and started looking at
stuff and saw all kinds of cool shit. There was

(01:09:45):
a bunch of cool say, it's like a where a
wash went under the freeway, and then there was a
frontage road near it. And I looked on Onyx, which
someone hooked me up with with a free account. Thank
you whoever that was, if you're still a fan of
crime Pace or or wherever you are. And so I
looked on onyx and and saw that it was the

(01:10:06):
land was owned by the state. Because there's a lot
of private land around here. The land was owned by
the state, and so, uh, it would be somewhat chill.
I mean, I would still be trespassing, but it would
be somewhat chill to go pick a little gander or
go see what I could find. And I found it.
I did find a bunch of cool shit, a bunch
of things that were common for that area, but otherwise

(01:10:28):
somewhat rare. Phizaria, calcicola, little mustard, all this, All these
things were great. Nothing was flowering too, uh, that was
the other thing. But there was you know, genera I'm
already familiar with oreo, kearria, astraglus, metzelia, fyzaria. There was
a there was a bricklia and and the fucking landscape.

(01:10:50):
Oh there was Ariagenham James. I that buckwheat was flowering,
of course, which again I'm surprised no one's growing that
that should be common as fuck in Colorado. Like even
in in like shitty commercial landscaping, because it's so fucking cool.
It makes such a nice, you know, ten inch twelve
inch ground cover. When it flowers, it's covered in fucking
butterflies and other cool insects. But but you know, I

(01:11:15):
think again, no one's growing and buckwheats are easy to
grow too. Anyway, the habitat itself, I mean, that's the
kind of habitat I'm attracted to, these like shale barrens
where the rock is coming up in plates and it's
it's scattered, it's a gentle slope, but it's sporadic plant life.
I mean it's basically rock. And then the soil, if

(01:11:36):
you can call it that, that's created from this decomposing
calcareous rock, which means it's like a white powder. It's
like this powdery shit, And all the plants there are
just fucking phenomenally cool, like the Yeah, like that fizaria
that areo Carria. There was an onnathra and a lot
of the stuff you find in areas like this tend

(01:11:57):
to be endemic to that kind of soil. So like
the soil type or the substrate I should call it,
because it's not really soil. The substrate is so unique
and extreme that once something can grow there, it can't
grow in quote normal soil. You know. Pence them in
versa color was a really cool one. I collected some

(01:12:20):
seeds of that. It's like an a coalescent pence them
and sends up escape. But the leaves just look like
little you know, lanceolate spikes protruding from the ground. Not spikes,
they're like glaucous, you know, leaves, but little lanceolate leaves
without a petiole, just protruding from the ground. So this

(01:12:41):
thing probably spreads rhizominously. It just stays buried in this shale,
these calcareous shale. There was Escobaria vivipera there too, of course,
is not surprising. That's a very common cactus, probably one
of the most common species of cactus, at least in
the cactoid subfamily. Throughout North America, there was Menzia dekapedula.

(01:13:04):
Like I said before, the flowers bloom at night, but
you know, beetles or something. Maybe it was locus. It
might have been locus and katied is. We're already out
there taking apart the flowers like they eat. I think
they eat through the sepals, the protective sepals, and then
after that the flower kind of opens. Uh. There was
some weird asters. I couldn't tell what they were. Some

(01:13:25):
weird members ASTs. I couldn'tell what they were because they
weren't flowering yet. They were about to looked like it
might have been a dieteria, which has purple flowers. And
you know, you get to look at the filleries, the bracts.
There was Yucca glocca forming massive colonies everywhere. It doesn't
get too tall, but forms these these spikes of what
looks like a blue rosetted grass, a bunch of Boudolua,

(01:13:49):
wonderful native North American grass genus the Melanpodium lucanthum, blackfoot daisies,
the penstemen, and the faizaria probably were what struck me
the most, because I was like, this is a fucking
weird there's a weird pennsedme. I don't think I've ever
seen pensed them in versa color before. And then you
four be a margin out of snow on the mountain

(01:14:09):
as they call it. That was all over the place too.
And then I walked through this arroyo where it opened
up and now I was think I was on state land.
I was away from the further away from the freeway,
and it was just fucking beautiful. It was like these bluffs,
these like badland like bluffs with junipers on top. And
a lot of the central North America looks like this,

(01:14:30):
like the areas of Kansas. I've seen this in Nebraska,
South Dakota, you know, very understudied, underbotanized places, and but
it's it's fucking beautiful and it's not hyper diverse, but
what grows there is pretty tough and restricted to growing
in those kinds of settings, these very harsh bad land

(01:14:54):
calcareous soil settings, you know, remnants of the Western Interior Seaway,
the Cretaceous Western Interior Seaway, and tons of cool bivalve
fossils all over the place. I found some that looked
like a piece of a meteor. It was a very
iron rich it was heavier, but it looked it didn't
look vesticular like lava wood. It didn't have vesicles, it

(01:15:14):
had kind of bumps, it looked wardy. I don't know
what the fuck that could have been, but yeah, anyway,
but the Menzillia was dominant in this dry creekwash and
it was fucking everywhere. And it's such a cool it's
such a cool one that menzilla dea pedaloids, I mean,
really abundant, really common. Probably a lot of cool moth

(01:15:37):
that's hitting it at night if they haven't been wiped
out by the local agriculture and all the pesticides they used.
You know, we are in the sixth mass extinction. There's
insect apocalypse, insect crash. But you know, you can't let that,
you can't let that knock it down. I got to
learn about geologic timescale and just watch a lot of
fucking comedy of a certain type, I guess or something.

(01:15:59):
You gotta find a way to joke about it, you know,
about how we're this insane species and it's et cetera.
I don't know, you know, we really are. We're just
crazy monckies. We're barely into this consciousness thing. If we
were more into it, maybe we wouldn't be behaving like this,
and so at the whims of our need for social
approval and validation and not wanting to break groupthink, but

(01:16:23):
or not to mention our our hoarding, our quest for
power and money, lowest common denominator shit. But it was
a great fucking spot. So if you happen to be
going through Pueblo, Colorado, Pueblo county'd be keep an eye
out on the road south of south of Pueblo. There's
some good shit there. It's worth stopping and fiddly fucking

(01:16:44):
around and looking at some of the plants. There was
croton too, probably just croton dia week as I forget
which one. I was amazed the mushroom walk that we
did in the mountains near what was it, Woodward wood
Park Woodland Park, Colorado, northwest of Colorado Springs. The mushroom

(01:17:08):
walk there was lin Aia Vulgario's horrible invasive plant. It's
a snap dragon. It's a beautiful snap dragon. It was
really common. It was everywhere, easy to see. It's just
an escapee from somebody's garden. But fuck it takes over man,
really bad invasive plant. Anyway, So when I was in
when I was in Colorado Spring still before I departed

(01:17:31):
and saw how the beautiful road cuts, the beautiful carri
calcareous road sets. At Pueblo, I stopped at some what
is it natural grocer, one of those over those overpriced
health food stores, but it was nice. Actually, it wasn't
that overpriced, certainly better than sprouts. And I got like
a fucking burrito and some some dog food and whatever
the shit you know, you go, and they got like

(01:17:52):
the there's like an old guy wearing tight eye behind
a register and like a Caucasian girl with dreadlocks and
the other regis, and it was, you know, it felt
very homey andsd I felt safe. I felt like I
was I felt like I was, you know, protected, like
I wasn't gonna have to see it and he was
gonna make me puke too much. I'd rather take those
people than a lot of the shit that I see
in modern American consumer society. I'll tell you anyway. The landscaping, though,

(01:18:17):
fucking club me in the head, you know. And again,
if you think this shit doesn't matter, if you think
it's just landscaping, if it's it's literally the wallpaper of
the places you go, the shopping centers, the whatever, it's
the plants. That's the life you're exposed to when you
have to be in human society. So it does affect you, right.
It's like if I hung a picture of like Ron
DeSantis' butthole on my wall, you know, like a twenty

(01:18:40):
four x thirty six poster, and I had to look
at that every day like, oh, yeah, you say, it's
just it's just you know, it's just wall decore. No,
it affects you subconsciously, you know what. I don't know
what he does to it? What is he probably you know,
shave it and bleach it whatever?

Speaker 3 (01:18:55):
For?

Speaker 1 (01:18:55):
What are these rich fox What do they do to
their their buttle? What do they do to their anuses?
Their ani? Is that how you say you say A
and I? Is that plural? That's you think it doesn't
affect you? It does it? Certainly? Does you think the
billboards don't affect you? They affect me. They make me
bitter and angry. You know, I see some smiling prock
prick in a suit, smiling pruck smile. What is a

(01:19:16):
It's like a combination within a prick and a fuck
that works or spricking a schmuck. I see some smiling
pruck on a fucking billboard, you know, telling me that
he's gonna make me millions from the car crash that
I'm gonna get into. Because you know, so many drivers,
well everything's built for cars, and so many drivers are
terrible at it. You know that affects me. I don't
want to see that. It's mental pollution. You fuck you

(01:19:39):
think it doesn't affect you. Huh, it's mental pollution. It's
why the part of the reason why the world is
so rotten, the first world, the consumers to say, anyway,
here I go again. He's going, he's gone again, he's
starting again. God damn it. Take his meds. Anyway. So
I saw this landscaping, and they do this thing that
I've seen many places due to here. I've seen it

(01:20:01):
in front of people's houses. You're like friends of mine
that rent, and it's it's you throw weed fabric on
the ground, so you're wrapping the ground and polyester fibers
and plastic fibers. Very good, very good for your health too,
by the way, when you end up breathing them in
and consuming them. And then you dump boulder do you
dump rocks and gravel, railroad ballast or maybe nicely tumbled

(01:20:22):
river rocks on it, And it's it makes it look neat,
it's low maintenance, it's xer escaping. It's fucking terrible. It
creates the heat island again because rocks heat up, and uh,
you know, in the sun. Is anyone who's the rocks
hold heat for a long time, all that thermal mask. It's,
you know, just like the same way water does, but

(01:20:43):
rocks hold a lot more heat and they stay hot
late into the night and it looks like shit. And
then the weed fabric kills me. You know, so we
don't get any weeds because plants are messy. We don't
want any weeds it And this is what they had
in front of it was just some landscaping job. You
could tell I fucking hate landscapers. No offense. I'd say
nine out of ten landscapers, I need to put a

(01:21:04):
bag over their head. Hog tie them, put a bag
over their head, throw them in the back of the truck,
take them out to the desert, and don't hurt them.
Don't hurt them. We're gentle. But you dose them with
something of any kind of fucking psychedelic you know, it's
reverse in doctrination, and you just say, what the fuck
are you doing? And then you sit with them the

(01:21:25):
whole time. Well, they're tripping their balls off, right, I
don't care. You's fucking acid. Give them some MDMA whatever something,
Ask why do you do this? You realize you're part
of the problem. You're creating this. It's all part of
the same machine designed to kill the human soul, designed
to kill the child within us, to make us fucking boring, droll,

(01:21:47):
miserable shits who will just go to work and take
the increasingly shittier jobs and increasingly lower pay and the
lack of health care and all this shit. It's that
you're part of the problem. You create these landscapes. Why
do you do this right? And what's the alternative? Just
throwing some fucking native plants? Throwing some fucking native plants.
It could all be the same goddamn thing. Plant the

(01:22:08):
whole thing with golden rod, because it is my allergy.
It doesn't affect your allergies. You knit wit only win.
Pollinated plants affect your allergies. Golden runs. The pollin vector
is an insect. You fucking moron, goud He's getting still
worked up? Why is he still worked out? This is
exactly why I can't listen to crime paids because the
language is abrasive. He's very abrasive. He's very toxic. He's

(01:22:29):
a big toxic man. How many people say that, I
don't know some of the they're definitely Caucasian, they definitely
average parents, and they definitely have spent too much time
in academia. Or they like going to those fancy dinner
parties where they stuff each other's farts and they you know,
I don't know, I don't know, but that's definitely out there.
It's a flavor. It's not for all, and it's not
for them, and that's okay. Dose them too, fuck it,

(01:22:51):
I don't care. Drag all these people out to the desert.
Just have a massive dosing ceremony. Actually, don't do that,
Hankey Shamans do that. And they charge three hundred dollars
a visit for that new age, New Age spiritual cleans,
a new Age spiritual colon cleans. What would that look like?
They'd stick a metaphorical tube and your metaphorical ass and

(01:23:12):
clean out all the shit, right, how do they? I
don't know. I don't know. The same people that have
dolphin impersonating fuck parties. I don't know. It's very weird.
There's some very fucking weirdos out there. They're products of
the culture too. It's not their fault. Everyone's a victim there.
But this stuff killed me. This landscaping job. It was
like a couple shrubs. Some were dead. They still had

(01:23:33):
to irrigate. They hit They had black tubing. It's al scorch.
They had black tubing in the ground. Hold on, hello,
Oh he's in there.

Speaker 4 (01:23:42):
He's on the one.

Speaker 1 (01:23:43):
I got my got you. You're recording right, I'm recording
this podcast right now. We're doing it. Well, just I
want to talk about this now anyway, tell everybody about
the tour we got going on.

Speaker 3 (01:23:52):
Oh, we're gonna enjoy the Midwest and the great Prairie
grasslands in the in the in the late of the summer.

Speaker 1 (01:23:59):
Yeah, we're going every summer. Saint Paul on the twenty first,
and then we're going to Now we're going to Omaha.
One of the shows might be canceled. They got cold feet.
We might move the twenty third to Lincoln.

Speaker 3 (01:24:11):
I just I just talked.

Speaker 2 (01:24:12):
Yeah, they're gonna know.

Speaker 3 (01:24:13):
They're gonna do us in Lincoln over there.

Speaker 5 (01:24:16):
What do you think?

Speaker 4 (01:24:17):
Actually?

Speaker 3 (01:24:18):
I was actually called to ask you, are we having
this conversational life for real?

Speaker 4 (01:24:21):
Right Noweah?

Speaker 1 (01:24:21):
Yeah, you're being recorded right now.

Speaker 3 (01:24:23):
Here's a bathroom, here's don't.

Speaker 1 (01:24:25):
Say nothing incriminating. You're being you're being recorded.

Speaker 4 (01:24:29):
Uh, they said they understand.

Speaker 3 (01:24:31):
They they I think it's a good idea to do
it in Lincoln on the twenty third, Like they offered
that that might be the move.

Speaker 1 (01:24:36):
Yeah, that might have been a good thing. They bring
it to Lincoln. That lady didn't read my email yet.
I was kind of a twat in I apologize you
were sarcastic. I was just I was a little salty.
I was, you know, I don't know anyway, Yeah, Lincoln
might be thinking, okay, cool, Well we'll get this link.
We got the link set up, the tour set up
on a crime page page.

Speaker 3 (01:24:56):
So yes, yeah, we were doing Milwaukee on the eighteenth too.

Speaker 1 (01:25:00):
Yeah, that'll be Yeah, that's gonna be fun. Milwaukee and
eight we gotta find Iway shows, we gotta find iris
shows where Nature Center and.

Speaker 5 (01:25:09):
Yeah, Milwaukee on the eighteenth, and then Saint Paul banged
brewing on the twenty first, right on the Sunday, September first,
and then we're driving down to Omaha on the twenty second,
and then we're being looks like it looks like tentitively
pentitively we'll be in Lincoln on the twenty third, and

(01:25:30):
in Kansas City on the twenty fourth.

Speaker 1 (01:25:32):
Lincoln was where we hit that deer with the mini van. Right.

Speaker 3 (01:25:36):
Oh, yes, my friend, it.

Speaker 1 (01:25:38):
Was twelve years ago.

Speaker 3 (01:25:41):
Shit, yeah, yeah, you saved the day.

Speaker 1 (01:25:43):
Had a van. You had a van full of all
the resale clothing. That was amazing.

Speaker 4 (01:25:51):
Jack.

Speaker 3 (01:25:52):
I remember driving the driving that advan because we took
this like like northern route through Nevada and like stop
at the hot springs and stuff, and we're just in
these old towns. But I remember throwing open the sliding
door of my two thousand Astro van. You know, actually
I think it was a ninety five. Let me think
about it.

Speaker 1 (01:26:11):
It was an older model. I think for sure. It
was a wonderful vehicle, though it was.

Speaker 3 (01:26:16):
We'd throw open the sliding door like the fucking teenage
mutant Ninja Turtles party van, and Jack would run out
on these like back mountain roads and just clear the cattle.

Speaker 4 (01:26:26):
It was amazing.

Speaker 5 (01:26:27):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:26:27):
Yeah, Oh, he used to be so good at that.
He's still kicking. He's a little arthritic and has dementia,
but you know, he's still kicking. But anyway, I'm okay.
We got to find shows for Iowa. If anyone out
there has shows for anywhere in Iowa. We're excited to
come to you.

Speaker 3 (01:26:41):
Yeah, we want to hang out.

Speaker 1 (01:26:44):
Where do they get acid in Iowa? Where's the acid
chefs in Iowa? You know there's some.

Speaker 3 (01:26:49):
He's in the he's doing lab work.

Speaker 4 (01:26:52):
It's what I heard.

Speaker 1 (01:26:53):
So, But anyway, and then I think I'm gonna go
to I'm gonna try to do the Oklahoma City in
like the twenty seventh. I don't know if I yeah, yeah,
all right, it'll be a nice time. All right, Hey,
thanks a lot for setting up the links. Man, I
really I owe you a solid you know, deep dish
on me. When I'm there. We'll go to Rico Benny's.

Speaker 5 (01:27:10):
We'll go, we'll go, we'll go hang out and you.

Speaker 3 (01:27:13):
Know, we'll stay at days In and do some resistance
band stuff together.

Speaker 1 (01:27:17):
It sounds great. That sounds great. And Rico Bene's in Chicago,
Rico Ben's, And tell Aboudy about Rico Benny's. Where is that?
At twenty second it's on Cermac.

Speaker 4 (01:27:26):
Yeah, yeah, it's down under the highway. We're going to
Rico Bene's.

Speaker 1 (01:27:30):
I'm I'm buying. Well, I'm gonna fast before we go there.
So there's room.

Speaker 4 (01:27:33):
You know.

Speaker 3 (01:27:34):
Yeah, that's that's the that's the move. You know, you
could you just load up I do I try to
do you know, as much as you can that day
before you go take a nice bike.

Speaker 1 (01:27:44):
Right, I'll overeat, I'll overeat, and then I'll go puka
in the alley like a balliemic then I'll go back
in for round two.

Speaker 2 (01:27:50):
You know.

Speaker 1 (01:27:50):
It's just fuck it.

Speaker 3 (01:27:53):
Like like the Roman Bacchan Knolls of old.

Speaker 1 (01:27:58):
All Right, okay, well, hey thanks, I'll call you back
when this is done.

Speaker 3 (01:28:02):
Okay, great, sounds good.

Speaker 4 (01:28:03):
I have a good I have a good time with everybody.

Speaker 1 (01:28:05):
Okay, all right, okay, all right, single bye thicker anyway,
So so yeah, this fucking that you playing the native
plant the hole for the Colorado Springs landscape in front
of the national girls. Back to what we're talking about.
You just put the solidago in there, put something, a
couple of key stuff. Oh but it's messy. It's messy

(01:28:26):
and it's bright. When in this in the off season,
when everything dies, it's just a bunch of dead brown stems.
Leave it. It's fine, it's see. That's the thing. It's like,
there's no Some people do this where they're like, we
have to make it digestible for for the boomers and
for the square community. We have to make it digestible
so that they don't complain it doesn't look bad. No,
I say, no, you need a whole fucking paradigm shift.

(01:28:48):
Rearrange it from the top down. Stop thinking that dead
brown stems in the winter are messy. That's that's what
it's supposed to be there, That's what that's what nature is,
you know, but no one knows because they never spent
time in it. Because all the habit that's been cleared,
and we live in this myopic human world where we're
the most important thing on the planet. We own the land,
and nothing else lives here. It's it's a fucking it's diseased.

(01:29:12):
It's a diseased mindset. You need to stop rearranging from
the top down. As long as there's no fire hazard,
as long as people are getting smacked in a face
with branches and shit, don't worry about it, and you'll
the light that comes back will blow your mind. But
they could have just taken fuck, they could have taken
a sleepy as Speciosa put it, all throughout that landscape
in front of this you know it's next to a

(01:29:34):
parking lot. I mean it still looked like hell. It
was the American consumer landscape. It's just a giant heat
island of asphalt and concrete. But they could have put
milk weeds there and then, just just a bunch of
fucking milk weed tubers in the ground. It sprout up,
Get big stems of sleepy a speciosa mulch over it
and it'll look awesome, you know. And then some guy
comes on my Instagram. No offense to him, he says.

(01:29:54):
As a landscaping professional, I'll be the first to tell
you the native plant, lative plant landscapes take lots of maintenance.
Now they don't. What do you do? You get some hedges,
get some hedges, get some hedges. You trim it up
for the squares and for code enforcement. You weed whack it,
keep shit out of the paths. You don't create any
fire hazards by getting shit too close to buildings. If

(01:30:15):
it's a large tree or shrub, and then you just
fucking let it go. It doesn't take maintenance. You're telling
me mowing a lawn once a week is it maintenance
or dumping a bunch of what about when they want
to put something else in this landscape. Now they've got
to move two metric tons of fucking what's essentially railroad
ballast and then rip up all this polyester fiber. You're

(01:30:36):
telling me that's not maintenance. That's like three days of work.
It looks like hell, and it looks like shit, and
stuff's dying anyway, and you still got to irrigate. I
mean it just for it's for I live. Especially. The
concept of the heat island is insane. You want to
keep the sun off the ground. You want to keep
the sun off the ground, Stop charging up the heat battery,

(01:30:56):
use fucking trees, shrubs, a thick prairie, whatever. But this diseased,
fucking mindset that says plants are messy and this is
nice and neat has got to stop. It's fucking horrible.
They do some feedix. They do it in Texas. It's
a shit for brained idea. It's not xero escaping x eri.
It's zero scaping ze r O. I think they do

(01:31:18):
it in Florida as well. God it fucking kills me though.
So it's so horrible, and it's just this avoid avoid
plants that all costs We only like them if they're
neatly spaced out and uniform, and they don't look mesthy.
They're not methy. Look, you live in a fucking parking lot.
All of America, where people live, is now a parking lot.

(01:31:38):
We're so dedicated and hoard out the cars. All of
America is a parking lot in a freeway. It already
looks like shit. It can't look any worse. The fucking
Dollar General, the fucking lou Boys, the fucking the AutoZone,
all the plastic signs. I mean, it can't look any
worse than that. What do you worry plants are, even

(01:32:00):
if they're fucking invasive weeds from Europe? Araight, that still
looks better than this shit. You already live in a
fucking concrete trd, a concrete and plastic turd. You already
have been alienated from the living world that supports you.
How what do you got to lose the fucking you know,
plant some fucking natives over there. It's gotta look messy.

(01:32:22):
They take lots to maintenance. It's kind of like my
shot out, Get the fuck out of here, Get out
of here, go play fucking halo or what do they
do go play Call of Duty? You I made fun
of video games. I got a bunch of young men
dming me in the comments. I said, hey, young man,
we could just agree to disagree. It's okay. You know
you'll come around eventually. I'm not knocking all video games.

(01:32:45):
I'm just a lot of these games are set up.
There's no moderation involved. There's set up so that you
have to devote three hundred hours to playing it and
beating it. You know, it's not fucking tetris, so we
could play for ten minutes. Put it out, okay. Anyway,
speaking of Florida, let's call my friend Lily. See what
she's got to say. Okay, hello, everybody, we're here with
Lily Anderson. And I said hello Lily, Hi, Okay, any

(01:33:07):
I got the soda stream. I had to go get
some water. I feel it's it's uh, these are fucking
great and then you can refill them with the CO
two tank. Anyway, we're here to talk about Lily's holding
a seminar on shit composting. Just kidding, that's me. I've
been doing a shit compost thing. It works great with
the pine shavings in a compost. Never mind, We'll talk
about that some other time when we're off air. But

(01:33:27):
uh uh, Lily works. You tell everybody your first you
you were you work for the Native Florida Native Plant Society,
and Florida has been going through some very scary public
land grabs from some of the sleeves bag politicians there.
I mean, Florida really is it's like paradise lost in
so many ways. It must have been gorgeous. You look

(01:33:48):
at some of the paintings done in eighteen hundreds of
the landscape there beautiful, and then you look at it
now and it's like the landscape I just described where
it's all. You know, it's a it couldn't get any
and I suppose it could get uglier. Never say never
with America, but you know, it definitely could. Yeah, they
could definitely. Okay, So what's been going on there in

(01:34:09):
terms of the public land crabs? Tell everybody about this.
This is my people, mad Well.

Speaker 4 (01:34:14):
I mean, I think just in the last ten years,
but especially the last five years, we've just based unprecedented
development pressure across all public and private lands. And you know,
the administration that's been in charge has been very friendly
to developers and it although it's not, you know, not

(01:34:38):
just one side of the islands, both sides of the island.
I do think that. You know, last year we had
a very a big success in fighting off development on
our public lands, on our state parks. They wanted to
and they they snuck it in really sneakily. They wanted

(01:34:59):
to put hotels, pickleball courts, golf courses, a bunch of
amenities that are not in line with the mission of
state parks, and amenities that you can receive anywhere on
other on privately on lands in those areas.

Speaker 1 (01:35:16):
It's like, it's so sleazy it belongs in as Simpsons cartoon.

Speaker 4 (01:35:21):
Yeah, it's a joke. It's such a joke, right to go.
Nobody goes to a state park to play pickleball, you know,
there are so many.

Speaker 1 (01:35:31):
Like caddle ball.

Speaker 4 (01:35:32):
It's like a little paddle on a tennis court.

Speaker 1 (01:35:35):
God, that's so fucking lame. Actually, maybe it could be cool.
I shouldn't knock it. I shouldn't notocket. I'm just saying,
you know, I mean, I'm.

Speaker 4 (01:35:41):
All for people exercising and having fun and playing games,
but those are you go to private, you know, facilities
or public facilities on other and other areas not intact
conservation lands.

Speaker 1 (01:35:54):
For that, we should mention the people doing this all
they're all like laminated faces. They're all like these fucking
disgusting pigs. That's me. This is I really go down
an orgy of hate with this. Like I was just
thinking about Ron DeSantis's butthole. You know, I don't know
if he what kind of electrolysis treatment he does for
it or whatever, but I really want to, I really
want to get the full gamut of hating these people

(01:36:14):
because what they stand for is so fucking disgusting. Ventriloquist
the motherfucker anyway, So these people, I mean, where did
this come from? Because this is kind of it's kind
of insane. I mean, public are supposed to be public,
and now they're coming for them. All over the country,
especially in Florida.

Speaker 4 (01:36:33):
Developers are mass they they have bought out our politicians.
But I think citizens have been you know, asleep at
the wheel, and they're finally kind of waking up to
the fact that it doesn't matter which political party you
belong to. Both sides have been bought and paid for
by industry and unfortunately, you know, when they make those

(01:36:59):
large contribus they have expectations. They're implicit expectations about what
they were received in returns, sometimes very explicit expectations, and
and and that, and that was definitely one of them,
but it was it was definitely just the process of
how it happened. It was very clear that this was
promised to them and they were going to serve it

(01:37:22):
up no matter what. Yeah, it's just straight up corruption, definitely.
I mean, it's straight up co correction all across Florida
because they're building, you know, these housing developments across Florida
that are super cheaply made and that a lot of
them are in floodplains.

Speaker 1 (01:37:39):
I think because they know. I think that people building
them and the politicians know they're not going to be
there in fifty years, like most of.

Speaker 4 (01:37:46):
Them definitely smash and grab, smash and grab harvest as
much as they can. I mean, it's like a form
of money laundering. Even this new this construction is just
a way to to make a bunch of profit, rip
a bunch of profit off of what they can and
they have, you know, they have they those housing developments

(01:38:11):
are not going to survive the massively strong and increasingly
frequent hurricanes that were now and they're.

Speaker 1 (01:38:19):
They're they're built out of likes. I think they're all
built out of fucking radiota pine that's probably grown in
Chile or New Zealand that itself knockdown beautiful, you know,
intact diverse forest. It's all a fucking modern civilization. Really
is kind of a Ponzi scheme.

Speaker 4 (01:38:34):
But it certainly is.

Speaker 1 (01:38:35):
But you see, you see these these neighborhoods, I see
I got I would be on prescription opiate's if I
lived in them. It's fucking horrible. It's got to be so,
I know, dead on the inside.

Speaker 4 (01:38:48):
I think that's what That's what makes me, Yeah, further
fueled disconnection from nature and uh disaffected, you know, hopeless,
you know, just depressed society. I mean there's nothing when
you came down to Miami and like the the traffic

(01:39:09):
in Central and South Florida is literally drives you insane.
I don't know how anybody can maintain a sense of
spiritual fitness while living in places like that. You become
angry or you become an angry person.

Speaker 1 (01:39:26):
Yeah, it's terrible for you. Or physical fitness too, I
mean the way you get from.

Speaker 4 (01:39:32):
A fitness and spiritual fitness effect your physical well.

Speaker 1 (01:39:35):
I just think in a landscape that's so dominated by cars,
where it's not just a simple grid system, but it's
like curvy streets and all these fucked up they paint
lines on the on the at these massive intersections to
indicate where you go. It's just kind of a free
for all clusterfuck of asphalt. It's so dangerous to bike
or walk that if you want any kind of exercise

(01:39:56):
you got to go to the fucking gym and listen
to the meatheads grunting as they drop weights and breathing
all the offcasting plastic from the machines, and listen to
shitty potman like it's you know, I can see how it's.
It's literally a trap. It is a trap. A lot
of people get stuck in this lifestyle. They grow up
in it, and they don't know anything else, and this
is the way it's supposed to be, and so it's

(01:40:17):
just what's and it's just what's handed to them on
a plate. It's just what's what's dolloped on the plate
in front of them. Now, fucking eat it and be
a good boy or good girl and just go along
with it. And then you know, thirty or forty years
into it, their fucking life is falling apart. They're depressed,
they're anxious. Maybe they're making money, but they hate themselves
and their life. And it's it's there's you know, the

(01:40:39):
it's a carrot on a stick existence. There's no fulfillment,
and so the only thing to go for is chasing
money and shiny objects and all this stupid shit that
on leaves you more feeling more empty and around more
phony increasingly phonier people. It yeah, seems to I think.

Speaker 4 (01:40:55):
I think one of my main missions in life is
to remind people that we do not have to live
this way, that this is not life does not have
to be this miserable, and we are intended to lead
a happy, free, joyous existence in connection with nature, and
that that life is possible. And I think people are

(01:41:18):
beginning to awaken to the realization that that is the case,
and that they have much more power than they previously thought.
It's just we've been so indoctrinated to be to accept
our powerlessness and to think that we can't do anything.
But I mean, even like a friend of mine is

(01:41:40):
running for city commissioner and because I mean, I just
left an FWC Advisory Group panel about a wildlife management area,
and it's basically they get feedback from stakeholders as to
how to manage this land, what are the prior athorities

(01:42:00):
that stakeholders have for how the land is managed. And
like the city commissioner there, there are usually city and
county commissioners that attend, and often, you know, often those
commissioners are developers or in bend with development in some way.
And I was surprised that at this one the commissioner

(01:42:23):
was very much not so. And he was talking about
developmental pressure and his concerns because this a Senate bill
was just passed recently, Senate Bill one eighty, which hands
strings local governments from preventing development in their area. That
it changes a lot of laws that make it harder

(01:42:46):
for them to resist development.

Speaker 1 (01:42:50):
So they're like trying to eliminate any resistance.

Speaker 4 (01:42:54):
But but you know, at least this guy is doing something.
At least this guy has realized, oh, I can do something.
I can least the kind of a county commissioner to
show up and do something rather than just sitting back
and letting these people who are you know, raping and
pillaging to have their way with them.

Speaker 1 (01:43:11):
Yeah. Really, the development thing is crazy, Like I can't
imagine that being someone's job. Like your job is just
to build all these shitty buildings everywhere, and you suppot
to find meaning and that's like that's like trying to
find meaning in something like family law or like, you know,
lawyers especially have it hard. I think, well, they don't,
they choose it. Fuck them, But you know what I mean, Yeah,

(01:43:34):
a lot of like if you're not working in like
criminal defense, you know, if you're working on like real estate, larks,
like everything you're studying is fake. It's all bullshit. It's
like man made stuff. And that's what I just it
seems so passionless. So I guess that's why they'll just
end up going for money. That's the the means is,
it's just a means to an end. But the development

(01:43:55):
thing especially, and that's the thing is like Florida is
there's been so much development there already. What do they
have left? I guess that's why they're coming from the public,
very little left.

Speaker 4 (01:44:03):
And I think that is why it's really beginning to
the citizenry is beginning to wake up and not buy
you know, just because my political party is in charge,
I'm still going to have to defend public lands because
we're beginning to see that, you know, regardless of whether

(01:44:24):
you approve of whatever or you voted for whoever, like,
there is going to be unprecedented pressure on our public
lands to be developed, and if we don't all unite
and stand up for them together, then we're going to
lose them. And I think many people are beginning to realize,

(01:44:44):
or they already realize, you know, their little plot of
public land near them, how important it is to them.

Speaker 1 (01:44:52):
And I think, really quick me, that's the thing is
like a lot of right wingers, obviously, especially in the Southeast,
where it's just tradition, it's just culture, it's just what
you do, and that's the way people think. They're just like, oh,
everyone around me thinks it's right, so I'm gonna go
with that. They just take Again, it's mostly for ideology.
It's mostly just people taking what's put on the plane

(01:45:14):
in front of them. There's very little independent, critical thinking.

Speaker 4 (01:45:17):
And they think that they can vote for who they right,
they like, then they can sit back and trust that
they'll have their best interest at heart, and they don't well.

Speaker 1 (01:45:27):
A lot of right wing I think a lot of
people that vote for all this right wing bullshit, they don't,
you know, it's just what's put on the plane in
front of them. And they also get duped like that's
I think that's the failure of woke identity politics the
last ten fifteen years, is that it came from such
a fucking elitist place in a way, like namely the
halls of academia. It kind of abandoned the working class,

(01:45:48):
and so it further pushed people that might not have
fallen for the right wing bullshit so easily. It pushes
them farther to the right, and they're like, well, these
people are talking about all this shit. I understand, they're
talking down to me and Tom, I'm tell me, I'm terrible.
So I'm gonna vote Trump and it's gonna make things better.
And so the right wings able to rebrand itself is
like the the rebellious party, Like there's somehow the rebels,

(01:46:11):
you know, like they're not like the corporate shills and
the police state authoritarians. They're somehow the rebels and they're
on the side of the people. And that's what you're
talking about. People are finally starting to see through this
that it's bullshit. And I'm not saying like the Democrats
aren't owned. I mean everyone's owned by corporations. I'm just saying,
you know, the right was. It's amazing the pr job

(01:46:35):
they've been able to do for themselves and how much
it contradicts reality like they are, I would say almost
more than the Democrats, the Party of corporatism, like the
party that's gonna fuck you, the party that's gonna fuck
you in the art. Yeah, I mean it's again all
this like that Mike Lee guy, all these fucking pigs

(01:46:57):
like they oh god, they're so fucking they're such villains man.
And then yeah, I don't know, I don't know anyway
with Christy Who's who's the Pam BONDI She's from Florida, right.

Speaker 4 (01:47:08):
Yep, she's she used to be our attorney too.

Speaker 1 (01:47:10):
She looks like the fucking alien and drag from Mars attacks.
You know what, the fucking it's amazing. Rick Scott too,
that guy's a fucking pig. I mean, yeah, my god,
what was Rick Scott was involved in some sort of
development scheme.

Speaker 4 (01:47:28):
Right, medicare fraud?

Speaker 1 (01:47:31):
What was he doing?

Speaker 5 (01:47:32):
Yeah?

Speaker 4 (01:47:33):
Through nursing homes. He was frauding, defrauding medicare with he
had like a whole bunch of nursing homes that he owned,
and it was the largest medicare fraud in history.

Speaker 1 (01:47:46):
How did he get off.

Speaker 4 (01:47:50):
Paying some fine or something? You know, he was rich
and so he got off and then he used that
money to run for governor in one God, she's said
in the most I think that was his campaign was
the most expensive campaign for governor. And you know, that's
what has happened. We've reached this point where you know,

(01:48:11):
our political seats are bought and sold, and the people
that have more money are the more soulless and the
more despicable and the more you know, corrupt.

Speaker 1 (01:48:23):
Yeah. I called a friend of mine today and she's like,
she's like seventy seventy five and she picks up. She's like, hi, Joey,
I was just talking about fascist laughing, And so I'm
like what, You're like, oh yeah, I mean you could
tell she already. You know, she knows she's got like
a decade left. Maybe she doesn't give a fuck. She's
just like in that George Carl And I'm just here
for the rest of the show. But she was talking

(01:48:45):
about that, and she's, you know, we just we just
got to talking about the and so anyway, I was,
I was talking to her, and you know, we got
to talk about just the state of things, and I
was like, it's never getting better here. She's like, this
is like the country's banana republic time. It's going to
be like this, you know, for the indefinite future, at

(01:49:08):
least for the next couple of decades. Like the you think,
like the Supreme courts that are going to reverse Citizens United.
You think like we're ever going to have health care
like anyone that got any politician that got into power
and try to put in like a public universal health
care option would be capped immediately because it's going to
annihilate an entire industry. You think the owners of this
country are going to let that happen, Like that's never

(01:49:30):
you know, I just I don't know. So she's like,
you know, well, where are you gonna go? I'm like,
I'll probably you know, keep a home base here and
just you know, make sure I get out enough and
maybe you know, eventually, you know, just be searching for
where I want to go to in the next ten
years and she was like, well, what about Canada, And
I was like, Canada is like the same fucking thing.
It's just America light, you know, like yeah, you got

(01:49:51):
health care, but like people there, there's people there that
want to be the US, like they want Trump to
take take Canada like this, say, stupid shit.

Speaker 4 (01:50:00):
Is all over the world. The rise of authoritarian regimes
are it's cristine and populism.

Speaker 1 (01:50:08):
I don't know what that comes from. I don't know
if it's just this human be a sycophant and follow
and then of course the sociopaths always make it to
the top because that's what they want. They want power
and money. I don't know, but I.

Speaker 4 (01:50:20):
Mean, I do think it's a natural result of capitalism.
But I also think it is partially because we are
reaching this apex with climate change and there is increasing
chaos insecurity, fear, you know, and those types of regimes
you know, feed off of off of things like that.

Speaker 1 (01:50:41):
Yeah, because they why, because they're so good at pretending
to be in power.

Speaker 4 (01:50:44):
They come in and pretend to be the big, strong
daddy that's going to beat down any bad things that
happen that might approach. But you're not going to beat
down mother nature.

Speaker 1 (01:50:55):
That is kind of the archetype human condition. I guess,
you know, it's like some big dumb chimp comes in
and bangs a stick on the ground and everyone's Okay, yeah,
it's good, we'll follow this guy. It seems like you
know what you do. It's I hope we make it.
I hope we enlighten as a as a species past
that one day. I guess it takes culture.

Speaker 4 (01:51:12):
I think I have.

Speaker 1 (01:51:13):
I believe we will, just might take a very long time,
and it might be very rocky and bumpy a long way. Okay.
So anyway, So what's the status now with with public
land being up for sale because the state Parks initiative
was defeated last year.

Speaker 4 (01:51:28):
Yeah, we defeated that, but I think that kind of
woke people up and they're beginning to take notice of
a lot more of the public land, the corruption, the
dealings of developers that is happening on both public and
private lands in Florida. And so there has been this resurgence.
And I was joking, I mean, because I feel like

(01:51:50):
we need conservation needs to be bipartisan, and I do
think that it is. It is, you know, a topic
that is lifting the wool from the eyes of the veil,
from the eyes of so many people on both the
left and the right, that our politicians do not have
their best interests in mind because of this, how corrupt

(01:52:11):
this system is, and just that the people in power
are the people who have realized that they can get
their way if they hold a seat in political political office,
so they're the ones that do it and not the
people who have real integrity, morals and values. And that
we need more people with real integrity, morals and values

(01:52:34):
showing up to our commission meetings and running for local
and state offices. But also we just need more of
those people paying attention and showing up and speaking up
when stuff like this happens. That I was joking with

(01:52:55):
a friend of mine and I was like, we should
start a new political party, the Florida Panther Party and
have like that, you know that old black panther UH
poster that had like the panther and it said it
should say protect public lands by any means necessary. Yeah,

(01:53:15):
And I because I feel like we're getting to this
point where, you know, there have been such massive cuts
on the federal level for land management as well, like
if our lands don't burn fire. Florida is a fire
dependent ecosystems that the majority of ours of Florida, the

(01:53:37):
majority of the lands here were burning on a almost
yearly based.

Speaker 1 (01:53:41):
Oh yeah, with the amount of rainfall you guys get,
ship grows so fast it's gotta burn. You know, you
can only reach a tipping point when there's too much.

Speaker 4 (01:53:48):
We have the amounts of storms we have, we have
the really high rates of lightning as well, which we're
starting fires. And you know, if if you know, the
if this state is not able to manage our lands,
then it's going to be I think it should be
we should do it, we can do it. I think

(01:54:09):
we need to be thinking outside of the box and
understanding that we do have power, we can do more
than what and that we just have to assert that
in many ways.

Speaker 1 (01:54:21):
Yeah, yeah, but you need an intelligent populace the term
right to run, to run ship yourself, you need intelligent populace.
And that is where I mean all this shit, it
makes sense what they're doing defunding education and also defunding
the agencies that are in charge of public lands and
all this shit.

Speaker 4 (01:54:42):
It's like just putting developers on the boards.

Speaker 1 (01:54:48):
It's so fucking dirty, man, it's so dirty. Like developed,
there should be a law that bars developers from having
any connection at all to state, to God like that
just clear separation, so any in barring any influence, you know. Yeah,
or make it harder for them at least, you know,

(01:55:09):
make it much harder. They're still going to be coming
for it, but make it harder. So yeah, it's sad.
It's fucking crazy. I saw that. I don't know, man,
I I it's again. I think, uh, you know, who
was I talking to? Somebody was telling me like someone
they've got some investor circle and people are talking about
like it was. I think it was a friend of

(01:55:30):
mine who was saying that he drank with He said
he was like drinking. There's some like bar he goes to,
and he was talking to some guy who's a fucking
investor who he, you know, would have no contact with otherwise,
like doesn't they're just live in different worlds. And the
this guy was telling him, like, you know, a lot
of like his investor friends aren't even putting money into
large projects in any of the more humid Gulf Coast states, uh,

(01:55:53):
you know, from Houston East basically because the hurricane intensities
is going to be so intense and it's it's too volatile,
and it's going to be.

Speaker 4 (01:56:04):
That is reflected in the housing market right now. We
have one of the worst housing markets in the nation.
It's terrible and yet and yet uh, nobody's buying houses here.
Everybody's leaving. There are multiple reasons for that, but one
of the big ones it's the storms, but also the

(01:56:24):
Santa's deregulated the insurance industry, so a bunch of insurers
then pulled out because it's not a profitable place for
them to be and they were only being held here
by regulation. So the prices went up astronomically for home
insurance and then some of a lot of them, several
of them just pulled out of the state entirely because

(01:56:48):
the reality is that if we don't stop burning fossil fuels,
we will get stronger and more frequent hurricanes to the
likes of which we couldnot even comprehend. And like Hurricane Michael,
really change really opened my mind to the future of
what Florida could be if we don't do anything. Because

(01:57:12):
it used to be that hurricanes could not maintain their strength,
their wind strength so far inland, but because the Gulf
of Mexico is warming.

Speaker 1 (01:57:25):
Energy.

Speaker 4 (01:57:27):
Yeah, the energy, it's like, provides like a battery pack
to these storms and they get bigger and they are
strong enough to maintain their strength so far inland. Like
so far, it's there will become a time when the
entire Gulf coast is uninhabitable because we won't be able

(01:57:49):
to rebuild fast enough. And insurers know that. Insurers believe
in climate change, they know, but unfortunately.

Speaker 1 (01:57:59):
Climate it's so it's crazy to me too that like,
this is a this has become so well, so efficiently
politicized that people are able to deny what's right in
front of them and what's happening. To anyone who's over
the age of twenty and has seen it happen, you know,
they're able to deny it. And it's like, I mean,
the logic for anyone to be like, oh, yeah, the

(01:58:20):
oil companies have invested interest in denying this, uh so,
uh so this is obviously bullshit. We can see it happening.
Like who's got if you're on the scale, who's got
more of a propensity and reason to lie these nerdy
scientists or to oil companies.

Speaker 2 (01:58:36):
Oh, the oil companies are protecting this. You know, they've
got our best interests at heart. They're the ones that
are trying to to keep things, to keep humanity together.
Like what like it's it's again, that too, is like
what the fuck?

Speaker 5 (01:58:50):
Man?

Speaker 1 (01:58:50):
Like, how do you get people that's dumb? How do
you convince them it's wild?

Speaker 4 (01:58:55):
You deny them a good education and make them miser.

Speaker 1 (01:59:00):
And I think it's yeah, it's all culture too, like
those I think a lot of those people.

Speaker 4 (01:59:05):
Culture is designed to make us.

Speaker 1 (01:59:08):
But also well, well no, I'm just talking about the
way culture works. It's like you step out of line
and go against the ideology espoused by your culture, you're
gonna get you're gonna turn heads, and you're gonna be ostracized,
whether it's left or right. And so if you start saying, oh,
climate change is happening, people, you know, the people at

(01:59:28):
the fucking bar with you wherever are going to start saying,
oh this is you know, they're gonna call you a
pussy or you know whatever, liberal libtard whatever, Like it's
it's crazy, I mean. And so there's there's there's a
social reward and punishment system for going against it, And
I think that's what the same thing why I think
a lot of people voted for Trump even though he's

(01:59:49):
like an obvious shit bags. People know that they would
be looked down on if they vote for or like
why a lot of progressives like come on, Kamala Harris sucked,
but like a lot of especially like young Rezuomers probably
were like, I'm not going to vote for her because
that would that, you know, I'll get looked down on
by my group, even though it's basically a last ditch
effort to save, you know, prevent this dirtier shit bag

(02:00:10):
from getting an office. Like again, if you gotta, if
you got a choice, been getting slapped in the face
or like scalped, I'll take the slap in the face,
which is what you know, I'll vote for Harris was whatever.
I mean, it doesn't matter anymore. But again, there's there's
it's all the way humans work is all social rewards
and punishment. It's and that's what's so frustrating for me

(02:00:31):
about it. I guess because most people generally stick to
that that uh, that rule. So anyway, but you know,
with with any of this dark shit that you know
that we're talking about I think again, the answer is
always in reconnecting with the living world. You know, whether

(02:00:51):
it's just having a fucking like eight by ten patch
of native plants in your yard where you can watch
all the birds and shit coming to visit it, or
whether it's being able to take a walk along the
fucking you know, a canal that hasn't been mode, where
there's actual plant life, where there's something alive that's not
like a planted shitty crape myrtle or some horticultural atrocity,

(02:01:13):
you know, the landscape and garbage something like that. I
think that always it feels good for people. I think
that is what you know, we need more of that.
We need people. You show them that, and you at
least half of them are going to become converts, you know.

Speaker 4 (02:01:29):
Yeah, yes, And what we do to the land is
what we do to ourselves. And so when we harm
the land, we are harming ourselves mentally, physically and spiritually.
And yeah, waking people up to the fact that everything
is interconnected and we have the strength to turn things around.

(02:01:55):
And I know that we all, many of us feel
really really hopeless right now, but I I do not.
I mean, I struggle with it at times, But when
I do, I take that hopelessness to nature, and I
encourage everybody to do this. When you are feeling hopeless
and lost and scared, go outside to a natural area

(02:02:16):
that you can access and ask for what you need.
You know, put your hands in the earth and ask
for cry if you need to stop, but.

Speaker 1 (02:02:30):
I don't care.

Speaker 4 (02:02:31):
Sorry, sorry, I'm gonna you gotta let me.

Speaker 1 (02:02:33):
Too, and wish for the swift death of your enemies.

Speaker 4 (02:02:37):
So I want to say, ask for what you need,
Ask for the strength you need, Ask for the to
re relieved of this burden of grief, because I think
so many of us that are you know, sensitive and
in touch with the natural world, we are grieving right
now and we have to process this grief in order
to heal and move forward as a society. And so

(02:03:02):
deposit your grief into the earth. Ask for the strength
and power that you need. Whatever you need, you can
ask for that and know that that strength and power
is all around you, especially if you're anywhere near trees
or earth. You can go outside sometimes, you know, I'll
just go outside with my shoes off and touch the

(02:03:23):
ground and try to feel that strength returning to me
and I know that sounds when we were cuckoo or whatever.
I don't really care. At this point. We're in very
dark times and we this is a must for people
to awaken to our connection with the earth and our
dependency upon it.

Speaker 1 (02:03:43):
But I think it's okay to ask for like a
piano to fall on like fucking jd Vance's that or
something too. I think that's right.

Speaker 4 (02:03:49):
Yeah, sometimes I imagine a piano wire around the neck.

Speaker 1 (02:03:53):
Now I talk about a whole piano. I want like it.
I want it to be entertaining. I want like a
fall from above pianos and safets and shit. Anyway, Okay, well,
thanks a lot, thanks Lily. I appreciate that you're giving
us the info on a Yeah, Florida's fucking anyway. You
have so Lake Wales Ridge in October. I'll call you
about that. We'll be out there, all right, Okay, all right, bye,

(02:04:18):
all right, anyway, that's two hours right there, we hit
the mark. Thanks for listening. I appree, I appreciate I
appreciate you. Thank you so much for coming here and
listening to Anyway. Uh, we're gonna be on tour and
I don't know if we're taking a fucking club wagon
or what. But we're gonna be on tour the club
Al's club Wagon on my truck and I'm gonna be
doing it. It's a two hour presentation on lawn killing

(02:04:41):
horticultural atrocities, how ridiculous modern American landscaping is dope native
prairie plants. Uh. And then a lot of screaming and shouting.
And that's screaming. It's like an elevated to It's like this.
It's a it's a very abrasive. It's very abraive. I
don't appreciate it. It's very abraid, very abrasive. I can
tell down to profanity if you got if there's kids

(02:05:01):
in there, if I see kids, I'm not gonna be
cursing so much. I'll turn it down. Okay, no kids.
It's a cluster fuck of curse words. It's profanity, you know.

Speaker 4 (02:05:12):
And uh.

Speaker 1 (02:05:12):
And then we'll be selling printing a bunch of shirts
in a garage. Kill your lawn shit, you know, have
some uh, maybe get some yard signs or something too,
and it'll be a nice time. Why don't you come out.
We're doing the Midwest, We're awarding the big city. We're
awarding the coastal cities for this coastal elite global coastal
elite globalist. We're gonna be We're gonna do Omaha, Lincoln, Hello, Nebraska.

(02:05:34):
We're doing who's gonna hook up Iway shows? Is there
anyone who can hook up shows in Des Moines, Davenport,
Rapid City? Any it? He's in between. I one never
gets any love. We're here to show it love. And
check out that uh patch of salvia azarrea but a
highways stop. I don't know. Look it's I think it's

(02:05:54):
a inand I don't think my I don't think I
have obscured the location. Someone gets seed of that and
grow that, or you're an asshole if you live in
that area and you're not trying to grow salvia azaria
azeria however you want to pronounce it, you're an asshole.
And uh what else? Oh yeah, and join the Patreon
if you want to hear me reading the first twenty

(02:06:18):
five thirty minutes of Concrete Botany, the book that's due
out in April. I think that's something that have a
grocery day, go for your somebody goes off to my
girl choice say after dada hate. They drink doles, bears, Hawks, socks.

Speaker 6 (02:06:47):
Bulls, Sago pie a little longer like I DL piece
so they've read rolled mustache, the sauce of Mike Tickers
forehead and hair combs to the side, looking like a
piece of foam builk Speaker's red cooler. Eighty five Bear soupers,
Polar sausage proverbs, walking like my cockers, Sta syatams, no
shirt jewels could get a case of squirt white suppists
because I forgot to get the minute rice. So I'm
back in the damnfield to get a stinking back of ice.

(02:07:08):
To get a stinking back of rice. My wife Jorge
skewt but tastes really looked me like I ate juicy
fruit had me dancing like Chris Penn and footloose. Eighty
five Walter Rubles old style back of culs, go to
a stool, tools and weed whacker fuel eighty five Bear sulvers,
stay seattles, got room play a basement, suff up shot fat,
clean up, cook rox cook chops here.

Speaker 1 (02:07:28):
Heat shouldn't be that hot.

Speaker 6 (02:07:29):
Keep your juices in the chops, keep your juices in
the brots. Serve from my favorite place, Tato salad and
great pop. My favorite actor was Dinning. He longed before
he played night, but Barrener was a substitute.

Speaker 1 (02:07:38):
Everything was going right.

Speaker 6 (02:07:39):
Even after Jordan left and Dave Corzine retired. So dust
the s wild throws, Mike Dicker got fired. Favorite actor
dnnity favorite drink old dolls, bears, fox socks, bulls, play
softball with the guys. Wife may curly fries, drink about
four doves grounded out two by flies in the view
of down Western Stop and get some more rots on sale,
chicken and tiny sausages going pop.

Speaker 1 (02:08:00):
This week fishing trip.

Speaker 6 (02:08:01):
Gotta get some new flies. Wife packed turkey SUPs, jay
chips and beach pie. Swash a little danaheat, pull out
the laser. This it's like for one, two three, it's
Baronser makes great flicks. Listen to the shuffle for running
Richard Dispard. Damn I left those orange pops and the
trunk got a skylark speak a couple old dolls ship.
There's my damn wife, you know one the outby back.
I gotta get some more heights back in the damn Viewick,

(02:08:22):
I should go to the damn bar. I saw I
think Kownsion, the Eatons and a sports car.

Speaker 1 (02:08:26):
Favorite to act O Danahey, favorite drink, old Dolls, Bears, Hawks, socks.

Speaker 6 (02:08:30):
Bulls, play a little poker, spend time with the wife,
take her off the Bennegains, see if they cook the
chops right, go over, get a laser with this projection
of string TV for to those Italian beef and the
movie starting. Tommy b Back in the Damn Buick cut
on w c KG, caught us song by Cliff Bryant
interview with Dennahee. So I'm trying with down Western Ham.
I think I've gotta stop his ayers. Got a splitting
the freaking headic So I popped a couple of Bears.

(02:08:52):
I'm back in the Damn Buick. Think I need an
oil check The battis of George Thorow with smoke spots
on my back. Read the sports section. Bears in their
old line trying to find a decent Viero winning more
south Side.

Speaker 1 (02:09:02):
But on w c KG, Huey Lewis and the News
the hard Rock and.

Speaker 6 (02:09:05):
Rollers, Go beat Bears, those favorite actor Daddy, favorite drink dolls, Bears, Hawks, socks, Dolls,
Favorite Day Sunday, favorite team, the Bears, favorite store adventures.
Sayers says favorite show Danza, also The Gules weather Man's
Killing music, The Bulls, Favorite actor, Dunny, favorite drink gold Dolls, Bears, hawks, socks, balls, bulls, balls,

(02:09:29):
bulls balls, bulls, bulls, bulls, bulls,

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