April 15, 2025 • 31 mins
In this episode, we deliver on their promise from the previous show — a wishlist of features they’d love to see in Power Pages (and none of them are AI). It’s a mix of practical frustrations from real-world projects and some wild ideas for future innovation. What did we talk about?
- George’s standing desk automation project — powered by Python, Bluetooth, and (eventually) Power Platform. Imagine your desk going up automatically before every meeting!
-
Top Power Pages wishlist items:
-
API to clear the cache — long-requested, simple sounding, yet still missing.
-
Modern Forms — it’s time to modernize the end-user experience beyond Bootstrap upgrades.
-
Support for Quick View and Quick Create forms — why only Main forms?
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Multi-step form improvements — allow skipping between steps, especially when there are no conditions.
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Bring back Front-Side Editing — content editing without admin rights is a must for real CMS scenarios.
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Power Automate integration in forms and lists — run flows like classic workflows directly from UI.
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Framework agnostic design — let’s dream big: support Tailwind, Foundation, or other CSS frameworks beyond Bootstrap.
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What's next? How about a tour of Power Pages features that already exist — but almost nobody uses.
Credits
Cover image by chatGPT (inspired by terrible prompts)
References
Get in touch
- voice@crm.audio
- Nick Hayduk @Engineered_Code
- George Doubinski @georgedude
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
George (00:12):
Good afternoon, Nick.
Nick (00:14):
Good evening, George.
I'm glad to be back with you.
In our last, uh, episode, we leftthe viewers hanging, or viewers,
or listeners hanging a little bit.
So we're here to, to make goodon our promise of a wishlist.
George (00:26):
Yeah, the wishlist of the things we wish that were in Power pages, um, that
surprise, surprise, not AI related.
Uh, they just features that I think,uh, we could use on real, real projects.
(00:49):
Um, sometimes you just slap.
The table and you say, Hey, uh,I wish the feature was there.
I wish I could do X. Speaking of thetable, I've got this beautiful table.
You say, hold on.
Table goes up, table goes down.
Right?
Not a big deal.
(01:10):
Not a big deal in, its on its own.
It's standing desk, right.
What is the big deal?
Is that the model I boughthas a Linux controller.
And what is the big deal about Linux?
Controller is the one used by ikea.
So, uh, interchangeable withIkea standing desk, big deal.
(01:31):
Now, when something is sold byIkea, it's sold by millions.
That means there are millionspeople out there who's got this
controller, which got Bluetooth,and out of that million, there's
one or two nerds who crack it open.
And guess what?
There is a public on GitHub, there is aproject how you can control your desk.
(01:57):
It's written on Python, how you cancontrol your desk from your desk, desktop
on your computer, from from your computer.
So here's my little pet project.
I haven't done it yet.
I'll try to do it thenext time we meet it.
But here's the idea.
People complain, oh, I never used this.
You know, up and down features.
I'm just too bogged down in my work.
(02:19):
Is there, like on wishlist, the featurefive minutes before any meeting in
my calendar desk goes up and when Ihang up, that meeting desk goes down.
So I will have to standthrough all the meetings.
Nick (02:36):
I see a, uh, power platform connector in your future.
Um, yeah,
George (02:40):
there's a bit of, uh, trickery involved because that's, um.
I can run, um, a web, local web serveron my desktop, but I really want to wire
it as a, um, you know, iot device, right?
So proxy somehow.
And yes, if I manage to do that, then yes,there will be power platform connector and
(03:06):
then I can control, like everyone goes up.
Imagine controlling other people desks.
Ooh, that's,
Nick (03:13):
and how, how is your licensing deal with Ikea going?
Do you, have you guys decided how split?
That's, uh, that's not ikea.
George (03:19):
That's these guys who sell controllers to ikea.
That's some, yeah.
Uh, probably Chinese company.
Uh, I dunno.
Uh, based on language translationlike that probably in China.
Um, on the instructions,it's like, yeah, whatever.
Um, yeah.
But, um, that would be coolcontrolling someone else's desk.
(03:43):
Mm-hmm.
Mm-hmm.
My mind boggles endless possibilities.
Hmm.
Bluetooth device.
We'll see.
But yes.
Um, this is my, uh, piece of automation.
I wish it was there and it's there.
So let's go ahead and see for whatthings we think or we wish were
(04:08):
in Power pages that are not there.
Da da da.
You go first.
Nick (04:16):
Okay.
And I'm gonna preface, uh, some of minewith some of these I think are, I, I don't
understand why they're not there already.
It doesn't seem likeit's that complicated.
Like it seems like allthe pieces are there.
It would just, you know, takesomeone in an afternoon to get
them in the, in the product.
Other ones, I understandthey're probably, uh.
Uh, longer in the future, but, um, ifanyone kind of follows me on LinkedIn
(04:39):
or on X and they, they see any of thememes I do, they'll know that this
is a gripe that I probably complainabout, uh, a few times a month.
And that is an API to clear the cache.
George (04:51):
Mm-hmm.
Nick (04:52):
I, I guess I can understand why it's Right.
The
George (04:55):
name of the podcast
Nick (04:57):
Ex. Yeah, exactly.
So I'd like to automate Yes,the refreshing of the cash.
Um, I, I just think there are somany use cases, um, where this
could be leveraged responsibly.
Um, I, the only thing I can think, like,I don't think it would be that hard.
(05:17):
The only thing I can think of is,um, obviously caching is important.
Um, the platform, the product wouldjust be awful without caching.
So my guess is the concernis that people will just go
overboard and want data that's.
Always up to the second and justbe hitting this thing relentlessly.
Um, but I guess if, if we, you know,if you have to sign a, a contract to
(05:42):
do good, to get access to this API, I'dbe willing to do that because there are
just certain use cases where, um, youknow, there, there are some workarounds
there, there, there's some differentways you can go about it using the web
API, um, but just an official way tosay, Hey, I know this data has changed.
Just, just go, go get the new stuff.
(06:04):
Like you can trust me,go get the new stuff.
Um, rather than kind of tryingto work out ways around it.
What do you think, George?
Do you, uh, do I have yoursignature on my petition?
George (06:16):
Oh, yeah.
Yeah, absolutely.
Um, if I'm responsible, I wasthinking that the reason I paused,
I was thinking what, what yousaid about, uh, responsible use.
Uh, and I one day, ifit's possible to kind of.
Govern it a little bit, like introduce,uh, uh, limited use for that API.
(06:36):
So you can't call it every five seconds.
Like at least if you didn't let itrebuild the cache, then don't call
it again and, you know, do some,
you know, tuning of, of that.
But technically speaking, what, what.
(06:58):
What would be your concern if youwere on, on the Implementa, not
some, sorry, not implementation team,but the team who's responsible for
running, um, for operations team,like keep that staff up and running.
What would be your primary concern?
Heating Dataverse.
Too much.
Nick (07:22):
Um, yeah, I would guess so.
Um.
The number of ap, the APIcalls you get to dataverse.
Like, uh, I don't think there'stoo many people, you know, people
aren't usually running into that toooften, so, you know, the, the load
on the web server can't be that much.
Like, yeah.
I think the caching, um, for, andagain, this would be for kind of
(07:46):
your own tables, not for the built-inkind of power pages tables, that,
that contain the configuration.
Um, but yeah.
Yeah.
If it's API,
George (07:56):
it needs to be selective, right?
So it need, you need to be ableto say, Hey, look, I know for
sure someone added a column.
Please nuke the cache.
Right?
That, I guess you can argue thatthat happened, that should't be,
it's a deployment stuff, so you,you shouldn't be, you can cache just
because metadata changed you really,you shouldn't change your metadata.
(08:23):
Too often Yes.
People that these swear.
Yeah, exactly.
Nick (08:26):
Uh, but, but even if there was some built in, like if you say execute
a power, automate flow or run a workflowon a record, like it should be smart
enough to be like, Hey, well I'm probablychanging something about this record, so
I maybe want the cash in validated here.
Now again, you can kind of do thatwith a web API call, but it just.
(08:50):
I wonder, feels like there'ssome opportunity there.
Yeah.
I
George (08:52):
wonder what, uh, what fidelity would you want on cash in validation?
Definitely per table.
Uh, then what, do you wantmore fidelity than that?
Nick (09:07):
No.
Like if you look at, because youcan, you can get yourself into
some interesting pickles with cashbecause, um, you know, when you do
something like an update, when you,when you add a record, it invalidates.
Um, the entire cache for that table.
But if you just, um, you know, itbasically caches at the dataverse query
(09:28):
level, so you can still get kind of stale.
You, you can get different resultsfor the same table legitimately in
the way that the caching is right now.
Um, so, you know, I would say.
The ability to say, Hey,this one record's changed.
You know, invalidate the cache.
And I think that's kind of how theunderlying cache invalidation works right
(09:51):
now when you, when you make an updatevia the, a former list or the web API.
So I just think there's gotta be away to say, Hey, I've touched this
record, let it do what it's doing now.
But just a way to, to, to, to make acall to the API saying, Hey, let's you
know, just pretend that I've updatedthis record and validate the cache
the same way you, you'd do it now.
(10:12):
Mm. But just don't make me touchthat row just to invalidate the
cache for that particular row.
George (10:18):
Yeah.
The other thing, I wonder if it's,uh, if it caches like, uh, um, FE X ML
results and specific FE XML results.
Um, yeah.
It,
Nick (10:30):
it, it does.
Yeah.
George (10:31):
Yeah.
What, what we do in, in our integrationproduct, uh, with, uh, with WordPress is
that we, we do a FET XML, we calculate.
Some kind of, uh, hash and thenwe cash against this hashed value.
So if you change fit XML, yes,it immediately kind of goes and
(10:53):
tries to find something else.
So that solves the problem,like parameter rising.
You've got different parameters,you've got different, uh, hash
value results, a different um.
But it's not a very sophisticated cache.
It's like, yeah, whatever.
If fetch x ml looks the same, feelsthe same, you get the same value.
Uh, but we do give API control,um, just because we can.
(11:16):
Yeah.
So that's a big one.
Um, I'll what's, what's numberone on your list, George?
Uh, oh, number one on my list.
I'll go in the order.
They, they're not.
I, I would struggle tochoose one over another.
So let's go with the one thatI already winched before.
(11:38):
It's um, with all the quick starts,um, that I templates available, the
biggest ask I hear is from customersis like, yeah, I've got this site
and we moved to Dataverse power apps.
So Dynamics 3, 6, 5, fine.
And we are willing to consider.
(11:58):
Moving to Power Pages.
Now what I want is to say to copilotor whoever is listening, here's my
existing site, can you please generatethe site that at least looks the same?
So I don't want meeting place.
I don't want school bookings.
I don't want banking,whatever it is, template.
(12:22):
I just want the site thatlooks and feels the same.
It's not that difficult.
Take CSS, figure out what it is,package it up, make it look the same.
I'll fill in the blanks on, not blanks orwhatever, I'll figure it out what to do.
Um, but just give me some, um, uh,bootstrap equivalent of whatever
(12:44):
I'm seeing on the website, you know?
So that would be, um,my number one wishlist.
Nick (12:52):
Yeah, that makes a ton of sense.
I doesn't seem like theywould have to do too much.
Special work to make that happen.
Um, some of those It's a prompt
George (13:01):
engineering.
Nick (13:03):
Yeah.
George (13:03):
Yeah.
It's really, you need someonewho knows their prompting.
Someone who in their, you know,use days, perhaps did some website
hacking and they understand CSS, uh,HTML and do some prompt engineering.
So that doesn't, it sounds likea really good marketing win.
(13:24):
Uh, from technology point of view, there'sreally, um, technology is all there.
Uh, from my point of view.
Um, just needs to harness it and,um, get the right person to do it.
Mm-hmm.
Like the same way, why did we end up withAngular for marketing, for event apps?
They probably said, Hey look,we need to do something.
(13:45):
Who do we have?
We've got these two dudes out of uni.
What do they know?
They know Angular.
Okay.
Heck, heck with it.
Write something.
Do.
Two dudes went ahead and wrote Angularand it's not a bad Angular app.
I like, I dissected it left and right.
Yeah.
Solid.
Solid Angular app.
Why angular?
(14:05):
Because we could, becausewe have the skills.
So just find the right skills here.
Nick (14:10):
Okay.
George (14:10):
Yeah.
What's
Nick (14:11):
next on your list?
Um.
So, yeah, the first one,the API, to clear the cache.
To me that seems not that complicated.
This next one, uh, it's, it is a biggerask, but, um, part of what we talked
about in the last episode with therelease wave was the modern lists.
Um, I think it's time for modern forms.
(14:32):
I think it's time.
For, you know, much of the investmentthat I see Microsoft making in
the product is for, whether it'scopilot or whether it's, you know,
the design studio is for the makers.
I like to see more investmentfor the end users of Power Pages.
The forms are dated, their, I mean,they really haven't changed much
(14:55):
since, uh, the old A DX studio days.
Um, an upgrade to Bootstrapfive isn't gonna change that.
Um, so just making the formsout of the box much more modern.
Um, you know, whether that's thingslike, um, you know, submissions without
(15:16):
post backs or more, um, say metadatathat you can put on just to make it
feel more modern, put a better kind ofclient, you know, field level validation.
Just all these things that we kind ofexpect out of modern forms these days.
Um, I think that's, that wouldbe a worthwhile investment.
I think that would, uh, get a lotmore people trying to use the low code
(15:38):
capabilities of the platform versuswe still see kind of, too many times
people just resorting to, to pro code.
'cause it just doesn't, it doesn'tgive the, the user experience
that people are looking for.
George (15:52):
Incidentally, my next item is kind of related to that.
Because I still don't understandwhy the only type of forms
supported are main forms.
Why quick view and quickcreate forms are not supported.
(16:13):
And that baffles me because the XML,the layout, the metadata that describes
the form are identical or virtual.
Identical with some minordifferences from memory.
Quick view on Quick create.
They do not support JavaScript.
Perfect.
How many times do you try to explainto the customer that whatever you
(16:33):
wrote for power apps for model drivenapps is not gonna work in Power Pages?
Time after time, right?
This one?
Mm-hmm.
The lower bar is already set.
There is no JavaScript.
You cannot wire a JavaScript, sowhat you see is what you get right.
Uh, they have limited number of tabs,which simplifies, they don't support.
(16:54):
I don't believe they support time, viewcontrol, so that, again, it's around
simplifying things and that kind ofworks alongside with modern forms.
You don't have to create superduper sophisticated forms like
effectively replicating MDA, butin the web, that's not the idea.
(17:16):
You need a very.
Uh, for the lack of betterword, sexy looking forms.
Simple forms yet robust andthat is pleasure to fill in.
Even if you're using ai.
Remember this AI field assistant, right?
Um, something that pleasure to work with.
Just go and take a look at third parties.
(17:39):
That do that day in, day out.
Like they, they specializein built-in forms.
How good are those forms?
Like on mobile device?
They take the entire screen and theykind of rotate between the screens.
How good is that?
Right.
It's a continuous form, but itgives you appearance of this
navigation screens after screens.
It's like, could be, um, one.
(18:02):
Control per screen, per mobile device.
Like what is your name, what is your age?
And things like that.
And people don't mind that.
It's just, you know, flickingthrough the mobile phone.
It's not a tedious stuff to do.
So, um, yes,
piggyback on your modern form requestsand I say, why don't you take quick view
(18:25):
and quick create and do the modern way.
Oh, bonus.
Quick view or quick create.
I'm not showing up on the form list,so no users will ever see them.
Nick (18:40):
I, I couldn't agree more.
I, I don't, all I can guess is that 15years ago when a DX studio was building
it, someone said, oh, let's just, we'lljust stick with main forms for now,
and it hasn't got another minute there.
We'll do the hazard tomorrow.
Yeah, yeah,
George (18:56):
yeah.
And tomorrow never.
Never came.
What's next on your list?
Okay,
Nick (19:01):
so well, to pile onto the forms, um, let's talk about multi step forms.
Yeah.
So, um, and this has been, you know,definitely in the top, you know, top
handful of, of requested featuressince the day they were invented.
Um, and that is, so with a multi-stepform AKA advanced forms AKA.
(19:25):
Web forms, whatever you wannacall them, with a multi-step form.
The ability to navigate through thesteps in the list by clicking on the
kind of the progress bar along the top.
Um, the whole point of amulti-step form is that it's a
wizard that you can step through.
Um, but the only way that wecan navigate between the steps
are next and previous buttons.
There's no opportunity to skipahead and, or, or, or jump
(19:49):
back a couple of steps now.
Knowing the architecture under thehood, I, I completely understand how
this is not as simple as, you know,people think, well, why isn't it just
a, you know, you click on the link andlike it takes you back to that page.
Well, when you have conditionalsteps, it's not so obvious as to what,
you know, what was three steps ago.
(20:10):
Um, so I understand why it's difficult,but still, I think even if it was
restricted to simple cases whereit's like, Hey, we've got five steps.
You know, even things like maybeyou can't jump ahead because you
know something might be requiredbefore you can get to step four.
Maybe you need to createsomething on step three.
(20:30):
But at least the ability to jumpback to a previous step, which is
no different than just clickingback, back, back, that's supported.
So even, you know, a babystep to allow that would be, I
think, very much appreciated.
And, you know, if there were some thingssuch as, you know, if you know that it's
just edit steps on the same table goingforward, allow, allow you to kind of
(20:52):
jump ahead, uh, in certain cases as well.
So, look, you can
George (20:55):
know, you say the conditions could make it difficult, right?
But I see time after time again.
I see, uh, a lot of multi-stepforms that are multi-step forms only
for the one and one reason only.
Too much information, simplicity,saving work in progress.
(21:16):
Again, it's like with yourclear cache, API, pink is swear.
My form has no conditional input.
Mm-hmm.
It's just multi-step.
Each step is a progress.
That needs to be saved, optionally, ornot optionally, needs to be saved with
the user, uh, being able to resume atthat step or any of the previous steps.
(21:40):
Right?
Filling in, like, you know, I. Uh,need your passport details, need this,
need that need, your social security,whatever we don't have in Australia.
Social security, we dohave social security.
We don't have social security numbers.
Um, we have very good socialsecurity, uh, reasonable.
Um, so if I have seven steps andI say, Hey, look, any of these
(22:04):
steps, just because life is complex,there's a lot of data, right?
So save button.
And I should be able to jump betweenstep number two and step number six,
just because I feel like it, right?
If I miss something, tellme I missed something.
Otherwise, just why not?
Uh oh, I forgot my passport has expired.
(22:25):
So let me go to step number twoand put, you know, correct details.
And then go back to step number six.
So it's like, again, simplifythe case, which is 80%.
So.
Okay.
Mm-hmm.
Um, what's, what do you got
Nick (22:39):
for us next, George?
Oh,
George (22:43):
I miss front end editor.
Nick (22:47):
Oh, classic.
I, I still remember, you know, at aDX studio when that that front end
editor was released and it was, it blewour minds that you could be editing
a site live right on the site itself.
George (23:03):
And you know, the best part of that.
That there was a special privilegeto do front side editing.
You didn't need to be admin.
Nick (23:15):
Well, that does kind of tie into mine and, and I, I basically have the same
wish because a content editor that doesn'trequire someone to be a power platform,
you know, administrator, system admin inthat environment, it, it just requires
too much power to, for someone to.
To manage content on aPower Page's website.
(23:37):
You know, sometimes we see the platformmarketed as a content management system.
No good content management systemrequires you to be an administrator
to change a word on the homepage.
Um, so I agree.
Um, the front side editor was a, was theanswer for that for many, many years.
Um, and even, even today, we're working ona project to migrate a client from an old.
(24:04):
You know, an old portal into a new one.
And, uh, they're quite disappointedto, to find out about the death of the
front side editor and that it just isn'tpractical for them to, uh, to give some
people just some basic editing access.
Um,
George (24:20):
wouldn't you want, um, in situations like this where it's really
critical, I suppose you could build a walkaround like a separate table that mm-hmm.
Custom table that contains the.
Essential content that you want to,or you frontend, uh, uh, your content
(24:40):
snippet table with a, you know,canvas editor or something like this.
Uh, and we've
Nick (24:46):
unfortunately done it.
The CMS on top of a CMS, it, itseems wrong, but it it has happened.
Yeah.
Yeah, yeah.
George (24:53):
And, and then you basically surface from that
table, you surface the data and
Nick (24:58):
Yeah.
Um.
George (25:00):
Wow.
Nick (25:00):
Yeah.
Yeah.
We built entire, like you basicallycreate brand new tables of content, goes
in there when it gets approved, and thenyou can copy it into the right place.
Um, but it doesn't seem likethat's something someone
should have to build into a CMS
George (25:12):
that's actually taps right into underused features that, uh, we actually
thinking of talking the next time.
This, uh, uh, one, i, Ijust give you listeners.
All three of them sneak peek and, um,that, uh, uh, the feature where you
(25:34):
can invent your own languages, um, forthe website and use them to, to your,
uh, as your development languages.
Oh.
I think, I think I remember
Nick (25:45):
that one.
Yeah, that was a good one.
And I used it.
Was that a tip of the dayat some point, way back?
Oh yeah, it was, and I did
George (25:52):
a video on that.
It was, I think video was abit too rough around the edges.
I'm not good at video editing, but Ithink I might just resurrect it and
do it again because such a cool thing.
Uh, people complain about lack of,uh, you know, um, that actually brings
item that I think I missed on my.
(26:13):
List is a proper publishing cycle.
How difficult, you mean
Nick (26:22):
draft and published isn't, isn't enough for you, George?
George (26:25):
It's no draft and publish.
Yeah.
Uh, no.
I, I, I always see all of them,so I can't, I can't decide
which one to pick, so, um.
There's no history, there's noother changes, there's no approval.
I mean, not surely if you put like atwo or three smart devs on it, surely
(26:49):
they can figure it out in no time.
Right.
How to put things into placethat allows you proper publishing
cycle with approvals and stuff.
Mm-hmm.
Preview approvals.
Yeah.
Well, what's, uh, what'snext on your list?
Nick (27:08):
I've got one more thing on my list here.
Um, and I, I'm gonna put thisin the, in the category of.
It seems like this would, wouldtake someone in an afternoon,
but that is support for powerautomate within forms and lists.
We've got power automate through thethe API mm, but in the same places
where classic workflows are supported.
So basically running an ondemand, uh, classic workflow.
(27:32):
Via list or on a form, why can'tthat execute a power automate flow?
We've already got the trigger inplace to do it through the web.
API
George (27:41):
Past parameters?
Yeah,
Nick (27:43):
yeah,
George (27:43):
yeah.
Wire up.
Yeah.
I
Nick (27:44):
don't under, yeah, I don't understand.
And in fact, um, shameless plug,I, I wrote the JavaScript to
do it in a recent blog post.
Nice.
It wasn't that complicated.
Um, basically just addsan extra action button.
To the, uh, to the list andcalls the power automate API.
Um, but I'm curious as to whatthe, what the holdup is on that.
(28:07):
If there is some sort of, uh, I knowsometimes with the, with Power bi
it can be kind of permissions 'causeyou don't, you know, how do you
validate that it's on the right table?
And, but I mean, we've got it for,we've got it for, for classic workflows.
So with power automate flows,just trust that I'm gonna set it
up and I'm gonna point it and.
Don't worry about the permission,just, you know, let me do it.
(28:29):
So that one I think is, uh, a quick win.
That should be, uh,
George (28:38):
I think that should be near the top of the list.
The last time I heard, don't,don't worry about permissions.
Yeah.
That 20 million records were leaked, so.
Well, yeah, we haven't
Nick (28:48):
even talked about the multiple hacks and bugs and stuff that have
happened in the last year or sosince, uh, oh, that, uh, sounds
George (28:55):
like an episode.
Um, yeah.
Uh, I've got last item.
I mentioned it before.
My last item is, it's a long stretch.
This one.
I appreciate that.
It may never happen.
Uh, but, uh, we've been.
Boiling ourselves to death in BootstrapWorld for years and years and years.
(29:16):
And we kind of missed the fact that, uh,there are other frameworks out there, uh,
that are at least as popular as Bootstrap.
And over the years, theybecame very popular.
I'm talking about likeTailwind CSS Foundation.
Booma Booma is specifically a verytight, very tiny, small, very effective.
(29:37):
So there's a lot of.
Uh, I call it like loosely, it's notjust CSS, but the CSS plus JavaScript.
So it's like layout frameworks.
Uh, there's a lot of frameworks out there.
Um, if we could somehow make Power Pagesagnostic, that would be a huge step
forward and would make more appealingto my grades to power pages because
(30:00):
if I have something, um, in TailwindCSS and I want to move to Power Pages.
The, the last thing I want todo is, uh, to figure out how to
move from Tailwind to Bootstrap.
Nick (30:14):
So I think you're just getting greedy, George.
We would, we were, we've been askingfor Bootstrap five for so many years,
and now that we have it now, youjust want more and more and more.
Yeah.
Wow.
Aren't we all?
Aren't we
George (30:25):
all greedy and greedy?
So on that greedy note, I think it'stime to wrap up and the next time we
talk about, not a wishlist, but just theopposite, the list of things that are
there, but nobody, oh, very few peopleuse them or not aware of their existence.
(30:45):
That's, so that's gonna be,that should be a fun one.
I'm looking forward to that, George.
That's gonna be a fun one.
So until next time, thankyou very much and stay safe.
All right, see you all next time.
Good afternoon, Nick.
Nick (00:14):
Good evening, George.
I'm glad to be back with you.
In our last, uh, episode, we leftthe viewers hanging, or viewers,
or listeners hanging a little bit.
So we're here to, to make goodon our promise of a wishlist.
George (00:26):
Yeah, the wishlist of the things we wish that were in Power pages, um, that
surprise, surprise, not AI related.
Uh, they just features that I think,uh, we could use on real, real projects.
(00:49):
Um, sometimes you just slap.
The table and you say, Hey, uh,I wish the feature was there.
I wish I could do X. Speaking of thetable, I've got this beautiful table.
You say, hold on.
Table goes up, table goes down.
Right?
Not a big deal.
(01:10):
Not a big deal in, its on its own.
It's standing desk, right.
What is the big deal?
Is that the model I boughthas a Linux controller.
And what is the big deal about Linux?
Controller is the one used by ikea.
So, uh, interchangeable withIkea standing desk, big deal.
(01:31):
Now, when something is sold byIkea, it's sold by millions.
That means there are millionspeople out there who's got this
controller, which got Bluetooth,and out of that million, there's
one or two nerds who crack it open.
And guess what?
There is a public on GitHub, there is aproject how you can control your desk.
(01:57):
It's written on Python, how you cancontrol your desk from your desk, desktop
on your computer, from from your computer.
So here's my little pet project.
I haven't done it yet.
I'll try to do it thenext time we meet it.
But here's the idea.
People complain, oh, I never used this.
You know, up and down features.
I'm just too bogged down in my work.
(02:19):
Is there, like on wishlist, the featurefive minutes before any meeting in
my calendar desk goes up and when Ihang up, that meeting desk goes down.
So I will have to standthrough all the meetings.
Nick (02:36):
I see a, uh, power platform connector in your future.
Um, yeah,
George (02:40):
there's a bit of, uh, trickery involved because that's, um.
I can run, um, a web, local web serveron my desktop, but I really want to wire
it as a, um, you know, iot device, right?
So proxy somehow.
And yes, if I manage to do that, then yes,there will be power platform connector and
(03:06):
then I can control, like everyone goes up.
Imagine controlling other people desks.
Ooh, that's,
Nick (03:13):
and how, how is your licensing deal with Ikea going?
Do you, have you guys decided how split?
That's, uh, that's not ikea.
George (03:19):
That's these guys who sell controllers to ikea.
That's some, yeah.
Uh, probably Chinese company.
Uh, I dunno.
Uh, based on language translationlike that probably in China.
Um, on the instructions,it's like, yeah, whatever.
Um, yeah.
But, um, that would be coolcontrolling someone else's desk.
(03:43):
Mm-hmm.
Mm-hmm.
My mind boggles endless possibilities.
Hmm.
Bluetooth device.
We'll see.
But yes.
Um, this is my, uh, piece of automation.
I wish it was there and it's there.
So let's go ahead and see for whatthings we think or we wish were
(04:08):
in Power pages that are not there.
Da da da.
You go first.
Nick (04:16):
Okay.
And I'm gonna preface, uh, some of minewith some of these I think are, I, I don't
understand why they're not there already.
It doesn't seem likeit's that complicated.
Like it seems like allthe pieces are there.
It would just, you know, takesomeone in an afternoon to get
them in the, in the product.
Other ones, I understandthey're probably, uh.
Uh, longer in the future, but, um, ifanyone kind of follows me on LinkedIn
(04:39):
or on X and they, they see any of thememes I do, they'll know that this
is a gripe that I probably complainabout, uh, a few times a month.
And that is an API to clear the cache.
George (04:51):
Mm-hmm.
Nick (04:52):
I, I guess I can understand why it's Right.
The
George (04:55):
name of the podcast
Nick (04:57):
Ex. Yeah, exactly.
So I'd like to automate Yes,the refreshing of the cash.
Um, I, I just think there are somany use cases, um, where this
could be leveraged responsibly.
Um, I, the only thing I can think, like,I don't think it would be that hard.
(05:17):
The only thing I can think of is,um, obviously caching is important.
Um, the platform, the product wouldjust be awful without caching.
So my guess is the concernis that people will just go
overboard and want data that's.
Always up to the second and justbe hitting this thing relentlessly.
Um, but I guess if, if we, you know,if you have to sign a, a contract to
(05:42):
do good, to get access to this API, I'dbe willing to do that because there are
just certain use cases where, um, youknow, there, there are some workarounds
there, there, there's some differentways you can go about it using the web
API, um, but just an official way tosay, Hey, I know this data has changed.
Just, just go, go get the new stuff.
(06:04):
Like you can trust me,go get the new stuff.
Um, rather than kind of tryingto work out ways around it.
What do you think, George?
Do you, uh, do I have yoursignature on my petition?
George (06:16):
Oh, yeah.
Yeah, absolutely.
Um, if I'm responsible, I wasthinking that the reason I paused,
I was thinking what, what yousaid about, uh, responsible use.
Uh, and I one day, ifit's possible to kind of.
Govern it a little bit, like introduce,uh, uh, limited use for that API.
(06:36):
So you can't call it every five seconds.
Like at least if you didn't let itrebuild the cache, then don't call
it again and, you know, do some,
you know, tuning of, of that.
But technically speaking, what, what.
(06:58):
What would be your concern if youwere on, on the Implementa, not
some, sorry, not implementation team,but the team who's responsible for
running, um, for operations team,like keep that staff up and running.
What would be your primary concern?
Heating Dataverse.
Too much.
Nick (07:22):
Um, yeah, I would guess so.
Um.
The number of ap, the APIcalls you get to dataverse.
Like, uh, I don't think there'stoo many people, you know, people
aren't usually running into that toooften, so, you know, the, the load
on the web server can't be that much.
Like, yeah.
I think the caching, um, for, andagain, this would be for kind of
(07:46):
your own tables, not for the built-inkind of power pages tables, that,
that contain the configuration.
Um, but yeah.
Yeah.
If it's API,
George (07:56):
it needs to be selective, right?
So it need, you need to be ableto say, Hey, look, I know for
sure someone added a column.
Please nuke the cache.
Right?
That, I guess you can argue thatthat happened, that should't be,
it's a deployment stuff, so you,you shouldn't be, you can cache just
because metadata changed you really,you shouldn't change your metadata.
(08:23):
Too often Yes.
People that these swear.
Yeah, exactly.
Nick (08:26):
Uh, but, but even if there was some built in, like if you say execute
a power, automate flow or run a workflowon a record, like it should be smart
enough to be like, Hey, well I'm probablychanging something about this record, so
I maybe want the cash in validated here.
Now again, you can kind of do thatwith a web API call, but it just.
(08:50):
I wonder, feels like there'ssome opportunity there.
Yeah.
I
George (08:52):
wonder what, uh, what fidelity would you want on cash in validation?
Definitely per table.
Uh, then what, do you wantmore fidelity than that?
Nick (09:07):
No.
Like if you look at, because youcan, you can get yourself into
some interesting pickles with cashbecause, um, you know, when you do
something like an update, when you,when you add a record, it invalidates.
Um, the entire cache for that table.
But if you just, um, you know, itbasically caches at the dataverse query
(09:28):
level, so you can still get kind of stale.
You, you can get different resultsfor the same table legitimately in
the way that the caching is right now.
Um, so, you know, I would say.
The ability to say, Hey,this one record's changed.
You know, invalidate the cache.
And I think that's kind of how theunderlying cache invalidation works right
(09:51):
now when you, when you make an updatevia the, a former list or the web API.
So I just think there's gotta be away to say, Hey, I've touched this
record, let it do what it's doing now.
But just a way to, to, to, to make acall to the API saying, Hey, let's you
know, just pretend that I've updatedthis record and validate the cache
the same way you, you'd do it now.
(10:12):
Mm. But just don't make me touchthat row just to invalidate the
cache for that particular row.
George (10:18):
Yeah.
The other thing, I wonder if it's,uh, if it caches like, uh, um, FE X ML
results and specific FE XML results.
Um, yeah.
It,
Nick (10:30):
it, it does.
Yeah.
George (10:31):
Yeah.
What, what we do in, in our integrationproduct, uh, with, uh, with WordPress is
that we, we do a FET XML, we calculate.
Some kind of, uh, hash and thenwe cash against this hashed value.
So if you change fit XML, yes,it immediately kind of goes and
(10:53):
tries to find something else.
So that solves the problem,like parameter rising.
You've got different parameters,you've got different, uh, hash
value results, a different um.
But it's not a very sophisticated cache.
It's like, yeah, whatever.
If fetch x ml looks the same, feelsthe same, you get the same value.
Uh, but we do give API control,um, just because we can.
(11:16):
Yeah.
So that's a big one.
Um, I'll what's, what's numberone on your list, George?
Uh, oh, number one on my list.
I'll go in the order.
They, they're not.
I, I would struggle tochoose one over another.
So let's go with the one thatI already winched before.
(11:38):
It's um, with all the quick starts,um, that I templates available, the
biggest ask I hear is from customersis like, yeah, I've got this site
and we moved to Dataverse power apps.
So Dynamics 3, 6, 5, fine.
And we are willing to consider.
(11:58):
Moving to Power Pages.
Now what I want is to say to copilotor whoever is listening, here's my
existing site, can you please generatethe site that at least looks the same?
So I don't want meeting place.
I don't want school bookings.
I don't want banking,whatever it is, template.
(12:22):
I just want the site thatlooks and feels the same.
It's not that difficult.
Take CSS, figure out what it is,package it up, make it look the same.
I'll fill in the blanks on, not blanks orwhatever, I'll figure it out what to do.
Um, but just give me some, um, uh,bootstrap equivalent of whatever
(12:44):
I'm seeing on the website, you know?
So that would be, um,my number one wishlist.
Nick (12:52):
Yeah, that makes a ton of sense.
I doesn't seem like theywould have to do too much.
Special work to make that happen.
Um, some of those It's a prompt
George (13:01):
engineering.
Nick (13:03):
Yeah.
George (13:03):
Yeah.
It's really, you need someonewho knows their prompting.
Someone who in their, you know,use days, perhaps did some website
hacking and they understand CSS, uh,HTML and do some prompt engineering.
So that doesn't, it sounds likea really good marketing win.
(13:24):
Uh, from technology point of view, there'sreally, um, technology is all there.
Uh, from my point of view.
Um, just needs to harness it and,um, get the right person to do it.
Mm-hmm.
Like the same way, why did we end up withAngular for marketing, for event apps?
They probably said, Hey look,we need to do something.
(13:45):
Who do we have?
We've got these two dudes out of uni.
What do they know?
They know Angular.
Okay.
Heck, heck with it.
Write something.
Do.
Two dudes went ahead and wrote Angularand it's not a bad Angular app.
I like, I dissected it left and right.
Yeah.
Solid.
Solid Angular app.
Why angular?
(14:05):
Because we could, becausewe have the skills.
So just find the right skills here.
Nick (14:10):
Okay.
George (14:10):
Yeah.
What's
Nick (14:11):
next on your list?
Um.
So, yeah, the first one,the API, to clear the cache.
To me that seems not that complicated.
This next one, uh, it's, it is a biggerask, but, um, part of what we talked
about in the last episode with therelease wave was the modern lists.
Um, I think it's time for modern forms.
(14:32):
I think it's time.
For, you know, much of the investmentthat I see Microsoft making in
the product is for, whether it'scopilot or whether it's, you know,
the design studio is for the makers.
I like to see more investmentfor the end users of Power Pages.
The forms are dated, their, I mean,they really haven't changed much
(14:55):
since, uh, the old A DX studio days.
Um, an upgrade to Bootstrapfive isn't gonna change that.
Um, so just making the formsout of the box much more modern.
Um, you know, whether that's thingslike, um, you know, submissions without
(15:16):
post backs or more, um, say metadatathat you can put on just to make it
feel more modern, put a better kind ofclient, you know, field level validation.
Just all these things that we kind ofexpect out of modern forms these days.
Um, I think that's, that wouldbe a worthwhile investment.
I think that would, uh, get a lotmore people trying to use the low code
(15:38):
capabilities of the platform versuswe still see kind of, too many times
people just resorting to, to pro code.
'cause it just doesn't, it doesn'tgive the, the user experience
that people are looking for.
George (15:52):
Incidentally, my next item is kind of related to that.
Because I still don't understandwhy the only type of forms
supported are main forms.
Why quick view and quickcreate forms are not supported.
(16:13):
And that baffles me because the XML,the layout, the metadata that describes
the form are identical or virtual.
Identical with some minordifferences from memory.
Quick view on Quick create.
They do not support JavaScript.
Perfect.
How many times do you try to explainto the customer that whatever you
(16:33):
wrote for power apps for model drivenapps is not gonna work in Power Pages?
Time after time, right?
This one?
Mm-hmm.
The lower bar is already set.
There is no JavaScript.
You cannot wire a JavaScript, sowhat you see is what you get right.
Uh, they have limited number of tabs,which simplifies, they don't support.
(16:54):
I don't believe they support time, viewcontrol, so that, again, it's around
simplifying things and that kind ofworks alongside with modern forms.
You don't have to create superduper sophisticated forms like
effectively replicating MDA, butin the web, that's not the idea.
(17:16):
You need a very.
Uh, for the lack of betterword, sexy looking forms.
Simple forms yet robust andthat is pleasure to fill in.
Even if you're using ai.
Remember this AI field assistant, right?
Um, something that pleasure to work with.
Just go and take a look at third parties.
(17:39):
That do that day in, day out.
Like they, they specializein built-in forms.
How good are those forms?
Like on mobile device?
They take the entire screen and theykind of rotate between the screens.
How good is that?
Right.
It's a continuous form, but itgives you appearance of this
navigation screens after screens.
It's like, could be, um, one.
(18:02):
Control per screen, per mobile device.
Like what is your name, what is your age?
And things like that.
And people don't mind that.
It's just, you know, flickingthrough the mobile phone.
It's not a tedious stuff to do.
So, um, yes,
piggyback on your modern form requestsand I say, why don't you take quick view
(18:25):
and quick create and do the modern way.
Oh, bonus.
Quick view or quick create.
I'm not showing up on the form list,so no users will ever see them.
Nick (18:40):
I, I couldn't agree more.
I, I don't, all I can guess is that 15years ago when a DX studio was building
it, someone said, oh, let's just, we'lljust stick with main forms for now,
and it hasn't got another minute there.
We'll do the hazard tomorrow.
Yeah, yeah,
George (18:56):
yeah.
And tomorrow never.
Never came.
What's next on your list?
Okay,
Nick (19:01):
so well, to pile onto the forms, um, let's talk about multi step forms.
Yeah.
So, um, and this has been, you know,definitely in the top, you know, top
handful of, of requested featuressince the day they were invented.
Um, and that is, so with a multi-stepform AKA advanced forms AKA.
(19:25):
Web forms, whatever you wannacall them, with a multi-step form.
The ability to navigate through thesteps in the list by clicking on the
kind of the progress bar along the top.
Um, the whole point of amulti-step form is that it's a
wizard that you can step through.
Um, but the only way that wecan navigate between the steps
are next and previous buttons.
There's no opportunity to skipahead and, or, or, or jump
(19:49):
back a couple of steps now.
Knowing the architecture under thehood, I, I completely understand how
this is not as simple as, you know,people think, well, why isn't it just
a, you know, you click on the link andlike it takes you back to that page.
Well, when you have conditionalsteps, it's not so obvious as to what,
you know, what was three steps ago.
(20:10):
Um, so I understand why it's difficult,but still, I think even if it was
restricted to simple cases whereit's like, Hey, we've got five steps.
You know, even things like maybeyou can't jump ahead because you
know something might be requiredbefore you can get to step four.
Maybe you need to createsomething on step three.
(20:30):
But at least the ability to jumpback to a previous step, which is
no different than just clickingback, back, back, that's supported.
So even, you know, a babystep to allow that would be, I
think, very much appreciated.
And, you know, if there were some thingssuch as, you know, if you know that it's
just edit steps on the same table goingforward, allow, allow you to kind of
(20:52):
jump ahead, uh, in certain cases as well.
So, look, you can
George (20:55):
know, you say the conditions could make it difficult, right?
But I see time after time again.
I see, uh, a lot of multi-stepforms that are multi-step forms only
for the one and one reason only.
Too much information, simplicity,saving work in progress.
(21:16):
Again, it's like with yourclear cache, API, pink is swear.
My form has no conditional input.
Mm-hmm.
It's just multi-step.
Each step is a progress.
That needs to be saved, optionally, ornot optionally, needs to be saved with
the user, uh, being able to resume atthat step or any of the previous steps.
(21:40):
Right?
Filling in, like, you know, I. Uh,need your passport details, need this,
need that need, your social security,whatever we don't have in Australia.
Social security, we dohave social security.
We don't have social security numbers.
Um, we have very good socialsecurity, uh, reasonable.
Um, so if I have seven steps andI say, Hey, look, any of these
(22:04):
steps, just because life is complex,there's a lot of data, right?
So save button.
And I should be able to jump betweenstep number two and step number six,
just because I feel like it, right?
If I miss something, tellme I missed something.
Otherwise, just why not?
Uh oh, I forgot my passport has expired.
(22:25):
So let me go to step number twoand put, you know, correct details.
And then go back to step number six.
So it's like, again, simplifythe case, which is 80%.
So.
Okay.
Mm-hmm.
Um, what's, what do you got
Nick (22:39):
for us next, George?
Oh,
George (22:43):
I miss front end editor.
Nick (22:47):
Oh, classic.
I, I still remember, you know, at aDX studio when that that front end
editor was released and it was, it blewour minds that you could be editing
a site live right on the site itself.
George (23:03):
And you know, the best part of that.
That there was a special privilegeto do front side editing.
You didn't need to be admin.
Nick (23:15):
Well, that does kind of tie into mine and, and I, I basically have the same
wish because a content editor that doesn'trequire someone to be a power platform,
you know, administrator, system admin inthat environment, it, it just requires
too much power to, for someone to.
To manage content on aPower Page's website.
(23:37):
You know, sometimes we see the platformmarketed as a content management system.
No good content management systemrequires you to be an administrator
to change a word on the homepage.
Um, so I agree.
Um, the front side editor was a, was theanswer for that for many, many years.
Um, and even, even today, we're working ona project to migrate a client from an old.
(24:04):
You know, an old portal into a new one.
And, uh, they're quite disappointedto, to find out about the death of the
front side editor and that it just isn'tpractical for them to, uh, to give some
people just some basic editing access.
Um,
George (24:20):
wouldn't you want, um, in situations like this where it's really
critical, I suppose you could build a walkaround like a separate table that mm-hmm.
Custom table that contains the.
Essential content that you want to,or you frontend, uh, uh, your content
(24:40):
snippet table with a, you know,canvas editor or something like this.
Uh, and we've
Nick (24:46):
unfortunately done it.
The CMS on top of a CMS, it, itseems wrong, but it it has happened.
Yeah.
Yeah, yeah.
George (24:53):
And, and then you basically surface from that
table, you surface the data and
Nick (24:58):
Yeah.
Um.
George (25:00):
Wow.
Nick (25:00):
Yeah.
Yeah.
We built entire, like you basicallycreate brand new tables of content, goes
in there when it gets approved, and thenyou can copy it into the right place.
Um, but it doesn't seem likethat's something someone
should have to build into a CMS
George (25:12):
that's actually taps right into underused features that, uh, we actually
thinking of talking the next time.
This, uh, uh, one, i, Ijust give you listeners.
All three of them sneak peek and, um,that, uh, uh, the feature where you
(25:34):
can invent your own languages, um, forthe website and use them to, to your,
uh, as your development languages.
Oh.
I think, I think I remember
Nick (25:45):
that one.
Yeah, that was a good one.
And I used it.
Was that a tip of the dayat some point, way back?
Oh yeah, it was, and I did
George (25:52):
a video on that.
It was, I think video was abit too rough around the edges.
I'm not good at video editing, but Ithink I might just resurrect it and
do it again because such a cool thing.
Uh, people complain about lack of,uh, you know, um, that actually brings
item that I think I missed on my.
(26:13):
List is a proper publishing cycle.
How difficult, you mean
Nick (26:22):
draft and published isn't, isn't enough for you, George?
George (26:25):
It's no draft and publish.
Yeah.
Uh, no.
I, I, I always see all of them,so I can't, I can't decide
which one to pick, so, um.
There's no history, there's noother changes, there's no approval.
I mean, not surely if you put like atwo or three smart devs on it, surely
(26:49):
they can figure it out in no time.
Right.
How to put things into placethat allows you proper publishing
cycle with approvals and stuff.
Mm-hmm.
Preview approvals.
Yeah.
Well, what's, uh, what'snext on your list?
Nick (27:08):
I've got one more thing on my list here.
Um, and I, I'm gonna put thisin the, in the category of.
It seems like this would, wouldtake someone in an afternoon,
but that is support for powerautomate within forms and lists.
We've got power automate through thethe API mm, but in the same places
where classic workflows are supported.
So basically running an ondemand, uh, classic workflow.
(27:32):
Via list or on a form, why can'tthat execute a power automate flow?
We've already got the trigger inplace to do it through the web.
API
George (27:41):
Past parameters?
Yeah,
Nick (27:43):
yeah,
George (27:43):
yeah.
Wire up.
Yeah.
I
Nick (27:44):
don't under, yeah, I don't understand.
And in fact, um, shameless plug,I, I wrote the JavaScript to
do it in a recent blog post.
Nice.
It wasn't that complicated.
Um, basically just addsan extra action button.
To the, uh, to the list andcalls the power automate API.
Um, but I'm curious as to whatthe, what the holdup is on that.
(28:07):
If there is some sort of, uh, I knowsometimes with the, with Power bi
it can be kind of permissions 'causeyou don't, you know, how do you
validate that it's on the right table?
And, but I mean, we've got it for,we've got it for, for classic workflows.
So with power automate flows,just trust that I'm gonna set it
up and I'm gonna point it and.
Don't worry about the permission,just, you know, let me do it.
(28:29):
So that one I think is, uh, a quick win.
That should be, uh,
George (28:38):
I think that should be near the top of the list.
The last time I heard, don't,don't worry about permissions.
Yeah.
That 20 million records were leaked, so.
Well, yeah, we haven't
Nick (28:48):
even talked about the multiple hacks and bugs and stuff that have
happened in the last year or sosince, uh, oh, that, uh, sounds
George (28:55):
like an episode.
Um, yeah.
Uh, I've got last item.
I mentioned it before.
My last item is, it's a long stretch.
This one.
I appreciate that.
It may never happen.
Uh, but, uh, we've been.
Boiling ourselves to death in BootstrapWorld for years and years and years.
(29:16):
And we kind of missed the fact that, uh,there are other frameworks out there, uh,
that are at least as popular as Bootstrap.
And over the years, theybecame very popular.
I'm talking about likeTailwind CSS Foundation.
Booma Booma is specifically a verytight, very tiny, small, very effective.
(29:37):
So there's a lot of.
Uh, I call it like loosely, it's notjust CSS, but the CSS plus JavaScript.
So it's like layout frameworks.
Uh, there's a lot of frameworks out there.
Um, if we could somehow make Power Pagesagnostic, that would be a huge step
forward and would make more appealingto my grades to power pages because
(30:00):
if I have something, um, in TailwindCSS and I want to move to Power Pages.
The, the last thing I want todo is, uh, to figure out how to
move from Tailwind to Bootstrap.
Nick (30:14):
So I think you're just getting greedy, George.
We would, we were, we've been askingfor Bootstrap five for so many years,
and now that we have it now, youjust want more and more and more.
Yeah.
Wow.
Aren't we all?
Aren't we
George (30:25):
all greedy and greedy?
So on that greedy note, I think it'stime to wrap up and the next time we
talk about, not a wishlist, but just theopposite, the list of things that are
there, but nobody, oh, very few peopleuse them or not aware of their existence.
(30:45):
That's, so that's gonna be,that should be a fun one.
I'm looking forward to that, George.
That's gonna be a fun one.
So until next time, thankyou very much and stay safe.
All right, see you all next time.
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