September 19, 2025 • 53 mins
Hey lady! How are you doing? We mean really doing? We know it can be hard to admit that you may be feeling an overwhelming mix of emotions as we deal with the current chaos in the world. That’s why, this week, Terri and Dr. Dom discuss the healing power of vulnerability and how when used with discernment can help you cultivate intimate and meaningful relationships that can help you ride through turbulent times with grace and joy.
We know many of you are spending your September being locked in so that the seeds you plant in you fourth quarter will yield a fruitful 2026, but we want you to take a pause and check in with your internal state. Are you watering yourself in ways that feel nourishing? It is evident that we’re going to need each other as the uncertainty increases. Are you developing community so that in the event you need help you have a level of established trust to lean in or give help when needed? Lady, this episode lays the background of how to access vulnerability skillfully. In part two, Dr. Dom and Terri offer the actionable insights to make vulnerability an authentic practice for you. Doing so not only benefits your relationships but everyone you come in contact with because you can walk assuredly that you operate from integrity.
We’re here for you, lady! Take a look at the resources listed below for additional support. And, if you want to heal in community be sure to join Dr. Dom September 21 for a live virtual session. She’s hosting a circle for Black women to pour into each other and uplift each other in community. Come get free with like hearted women who intend to shine their light brightly no matter the circumstance. Register here and we’ll see you there!
Quote of the Day:
"Being a strong Black woman doesn’t mean that you can’t be vulnerable. It’s okay to cry. It’s okay if you’re having a bad day. It’s okay if some days you feel like giving up. It’s okay if you need to ask for help."
– Stephanie Lahart
Goal Map Like a Pro Workbook
Cultivating H.E.R. Space Sanctuary
Resources:
Dr. Dom’s Therapy Practice
Branding with Terri
Melanin and Mental Health
Therapy for Black Girls
Psychology Today
Therapy for QPOC
Where to find us:
Twitter: @HERspacepodcast
Instagram: @herspacepodcast
Facebook: @herspacepodcast
Website: cultivatingherspace.com
Become a supporter of this podcast:
We know many of you are spending your September being locked in so that the seeds you plant in you fourth quarter will yield a fruitful 2026, but we want you to take a pause and check in with your internal state. Are you watering yourself in ways that feel nourishing? It is evident that we’re going to need each other as the uncertainty increases. Are you developing community so that in the event you need help you have a level of established trust to lean in or give help when needed? Lady, this episode lays the background of how to access vulnerability skillfully. In part two, Dr. Dom and Terri offer the actionable insights to make vulnerability an authentic practice for you. Doing so not only benefits your relationships but everyone you come in contact with because you can walk assuredly that you operate from integrity.
We’re here for you, lady! Take a look at the resources listed below for additional support. And, if you want to heal in community be sure to join Dr. Dom September 21 for a live virtual session. She’s hosting a circle for Black women to pour into each other and uplift each other in community. Come get free with like hearted women who intend to shine their light brightly no matter the circumstance. Register here and we’ll see you there!
Quote of the Day:
"Being a strong Black woman doesn’t mean that you can’t be vulnerable. It’s okay to cry. It’s okay if you’re having a bad day. It’s okay if some days you feel like giving up. It’s okay if you need to ask for help."
– Stephanie Lahart
Goal Map Like a Pro Workbook
Cultivating H.E.R. Space Sanctuary
Resources:
Dr. Dom’s Therapy Practice
Branding with Terri
Melanin and Mental Health
Therapy for Black Girls
Psychology Today
Therapy for QPOC
Where to find us:
Twitter: @HERspacepodcast
Instagram: @herspacepodcast
Facebook: @herspacepodcast
Website: cultivatingherspace.com
Become a supporter of this podcast:
See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:01):
On this week's episode of Cultivating her Space.
Speaker 2 (00:04):
Crying is one of the most just authentic releases that
you can have, And when you are really crying, there's
not much curation that you can do there. It just
comes out, comes out, and Lord, have mercy, let it
be a don't let it be an ugly cry, and
you're just like, this is it. I mean, it feels
good after and sometimes in the moment it feels good,
(00:25):
but it's just you don't have control over that. It's
like your body is letting go of what needs to
be released.
Speaker 3 (00:32):
Hey, lady, have you ever felt like the world just
doesn't get you? Well? We do.
Speaker 2 (00:41):
Welcome to Cultivating her Space, the podcast dedicated to.
Speaker 1 (00:44):
Uplifting and empowering women like you.
Speaker 3 (00:47):
We're your hosts, doctor Dominique Grussard and educator and psychologists.
Speaker 2 (00:52):
And Terry Lomax, a techie and transformational speaker.
Speaker 3 (00:56):
Join us every week for authentic conversations about everything from
fibroids to fake friends as we create space for black
women to just be.
Speaker 2 (01:09):
Before we dive in, make sure you hit that follow
button and leave us a quick five star review.
Speaker 1 (01:13):
Lady.
Speaker 2 (01:14):
We are black founded and black owned, and your support
will help us reach even more women like you.
Speaker 3 (01:20):
Now, let's get into this week's episode of Cultivating her Space.
Speaker 2 (01:27):
If you're feeling stuck, overwhelmed, or unsure of your next steps,
this is for you. Hey, lady, is Tea here and
I just want to invite you to my free goal
map like a pro coaching workshop, where I'll share the
five proven steps to get unstuck and achieve your goals.
Whether you're feeling overwhelmed by all your ideas, juggling scattered ideas,
(01:48):
or maybe you just need confidence to start, this workshop
will give you the clarity, tools and the motivation to
take back control. Reserve your spot for free by visiting
her Space podcast dot com and clicking on the goal
map like a pro webinar link. Lady, don't miss this
chance to go to a roadmap that fits your life
and set you up for success.
Speaker 1 (02:08):
I hope to see you there.
Speaker 3 (02:11):
Our quote of the day, being a strong black woman
doesn't mean that you can't be vulnerable. It's okay to cry.
It's okay if you're having a bad day. It's okay
if some days you feel like giving up. It's okay
if you need to ask for help. That quote comes
(02:35):
to us from Stephanie Lahart. Now, I do feel the
need to truly, truly, truly reread this one for the
folks in the back, because I know that a lot
of us have struggled or are struggling with vulnerability, and
we need to hear this. Being a strong black woman
(02:58):
doesn't mean that you can't be vulnerable. It's okay to cry.
It's okay if you're having a bad day. It's okay.
If some days you feel like giving up. It's okay
if you need to ask for help. All right, see
(03:23):
you hear this, and you know the topic that we're
talking about today. What comes up for you?
Speaker 1 (03:30):
Girl?
Speaker 2 (03:30):
So first of all, I love, love, love this quote,
and lady, this is actually a longer quote that we
didn't want to read because it's like it's it.
Speaker 1 (03:38):
I mean, we could discuss it for the whole episode.
Speaker 2 (03:40):
But I love the entire quote, and I love this
particular portion of the quote because I just feel like,
for so long, many of us did not have the
luxury to lean into that. And now we're in a
space in life where we're having more conversations about mental health,
about taking off the Superwoman cap because many of us
have had to be strong Black women since we were
(04:01):
little girls, you know, like we had to be adults
and had to do adult things and manage adult responsibilities.
And so as you read that quote, I just kind
of wanted to like, oh, just like sitting in it,
you know what I mean, sitting in that quote like
a comfy I. It's the comfy couch, you know, So
I love it. What about you, don when you hear
that quote, When you've read that quote, what came up
for you?
Speaker 1 (04:22):
Yeah?
Speaker 3 (04:23):
It made me think about how we define what it means,
or how we have been told to define what it
means to be a strong Black woman, right, And it
just makes me think about all the things that previous generations,
(04:45):
our current generation has not had the luxury, the privilege,
the permission, yes to be because of the society, right,
and and just really thinking about how the current space
(05:05):
and time that we're in. It just really got me
thinking about how are we truly defining vulnerability, specifically for
black women, and how do we show up for each
other when that's expressed, How do we show up for
(05:28):
ourselves when it's expressed? And so I'm looking forward to
our conversation today.
Speaker 1 (05:36):
Oh girl, me too.
Speaker 2 (05:37):
You gotta be excited, Okay, So let's go ahead and
let's get into it. Latest week can dive into this
conversation a bit more deeply, and hopefully you have your journals,
you can take notes and all that good stuff.
Speaker 1 (05:47):
But let's just talk about vulnerability. Right.
Speaker 2 (05:48):
When we often hear vulnerability, it can sound soft or scary, right,
or even risky. And I think that you were saying
down a lot of us were raised to protect ourselves.
Is at all costs right to be strong, to not
let people see our cracks. And I know many of
us hear what happens in this house stays in the
house on the tun nobody our business.
Speaker 1 (06:08):
Don't let them see you down.
Speaker 2 (06:09):
Like that's the stuff that we heard, right, But the
truth is vulnerability is really where the magic happens. It's
what allows us to connect, to heal and to grow.
Speaker 1 (06:20):
Yeah.
Speaker 4 (06:20):
And I think when I when I hear that, and
I think about how we label the strong black woman, right,
and to me, that vulnerability is our strength.
Speaker 1 (06:37):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (06:38):
The because when we think about what the when we
really break it down, right, and we break down what
the word strong means, what strength means, we're speaking of
it's viewed in a positive light, and the idea of
strength means that it requires more. And so when I
(07:01):
think about the word vulnerability and how it's expressed in
our society today, to me, vulnerability truly is a strength
because it because the way our current society is set
up to express vulnerability requires a lot, and we don't
(07:25):
want in this current climate that we're in, we need
more vulnerability, but it does take it does take a
lot to get there. And so I think today what's
going to be so beautiful about this conversation is that
(07:45):
we're breaking this apart and we're talking more about what
vulnerability means. We're talking about why so many of us
might resist it. But more importantly, we're going to give
you steps on how to practice vulnerability in ways that
(08:08):
can be helpful for you.
Speaker 2 (08:11):
I love that so much because I do think that
you said something really powerful down vulnerability. In my opinion
and our opinion, I'm sure vulnerability for black women it
may look different than vulnerability looks for other people, right,
because of the things that we deal with being black women, right,
And we're going to get into that in just a bit,
but let's talk about some I guess you can call
(08:33):
them kickoff questions that we can discuss before we dive
into the juicy topic. As we like to say, can
you think of or share a time when you witness
someone being vulnerable and just talk about how it impacted
you or shifted the way you see them or possibly
even the way you see yourself.
Speaker 3 (08:51):
Yeah, I you know what immediately comes up for me
is not just one instant, but multiple instances of when
I see black women crying in public. And when I
say crying in public, I mean we could be at
(09:15):
a community event and someone share something that's that's powerful
or that invokes tears, and I look and I see
a black woman crying, right, or someone is sharing their
story and they get emotional and they allow the tears
(09:42):
to flow. And for me, when I see that, it
took a while in my personal life and in therapy
it's different, and I'll talk about that a little bit later,
but it took a while in my personal life to
be in a space where I felt comfortable letting it happen.
Speaker 1 (10:09):
Right, letting happen for you.
Speaker 3 (10:11):
No letting it happen for witnessing it happened for someone else, right,
Because I think oftentimes the urge is to.
Speaker 1 (10:18):
Comfort, Oh got you, got you okay?
Speaker 3 (10:21):
Right? And so or for me, for me, I'll speak
for myself. For me, oftentimes it was this urge to
want to comfort, which would then shut down the tears
or stop their tears, right, yeah. Or I would sit
(10:41):
and I would witness, but I would be I would
be uncomfortable, yes, and so I would just be silently
praying that this would hurry up and be done right,
Like I'm grateful that they feel comfortable enough to share
in this open space, like, oh, okay, this is great,
but let's get this done. Let's move on to the.
Speaker 1 (11:01):
Next thing, right, yes, yes.
Speaker 3 (11:04):
And so when I finally got to that space where
I got comfortable being able to witness it without the
urge to comfort them, yeah, without the internal angst, then
(11:26):
those moments became even more powerful.
Speaker 2 (11:30):
Oh oh my gosh, that just okay, you made me
think of like one hundred things, or you were just
sharing that. So one of the things I want to
say is, it's so interesting that you said that because
many of us were not taught, and we haven't been
taught how to sit with the discomfort of either our
own emotions or someone else's emotions, and like you said,
even when like a child cries or someone close to
(11:51):
you cries, it's like, let me go, let me go
comfort them. Usually it could be various responses, but usually
it's let me comfort them so they can stop crying.
Speaker 1 (12:00):
Yeah, sometimes it's so important to just let it be.
Speaker 2 (12:02):
And it makes me think about a few of my
initial therapy sessions that I have when I first started therapy,
when I would get I feel like I came to
the session more like talking about things from like an
intellectual or like you know what I mean, from the
intellectuals that were like this happened, and I understand that
this happened, and so this is how I reacted. So
then they started getting me to tell a bit of
a story and the asking why.
Speaker 1 (12:23):
You know this down because you do this every day.
Speaker 2 (12:25):
Dive it deeper and girl, when I would start to
get emotional and cry, like pausing and we take a
deep breath of me stop like wa wait, stay right there.
I'm trying to speed past this part. But it's like
sit with that for a minute, which is so uncomfortable,
but it's like, oh, it just feels like such a
relief when you do that. Okay, I want to share
something because I saw this happen recently. So there was
(12:49):
a student of mine from years ago when I was
managing a residence hall at a university. There was a
student of mine who lived there and they were having
they were experiencing some challenges like we make conflicts whatever,
And recently I saw them post something online and they
basically just shared share their story in such a major
way on a big platform, and it was so touching.
(13:12):
And I literally I don't often comment on people's post
that much. I'm more like, Okay, I'm gonna post, respond
to who responds to me, and then go. But it
was so compelling and so beautiful, and I was just like,
oh my gosh. I just couldn't believe that she had
been through all that she had been through.
Speaker 1 (13:27):
And I didn't.
Speaker 2 (13:27):
I wasn't even aware of that when I was close
to her and she was living in the building that
I managed. But I thought about how it made me feel,
and it made me have more compassion for her, right,
it made me have I feel like sometimes when someone's vulnerable,
it can also you can have more patience with them
and understand like, oh, well, you know what they may
be showing up this way because this happened, right and
also lend more understanding.
Speaker 3 (13:51):
Yes, yeah, and as you were saying, then would what
came up for me? Is this notion of what would
it really be like if we engaged with everyone from
that lens automatically right like this all because we hear
(14:15):
this phrase all the time. You don't know what someone
might be going through, right like we hear it it
and so but how many of us actually engage from
that perspective of we don't know what someone is coming
to us with, what they might be going through, what
(14:39):
they might have just encountered right before they got to us.
And if we engage with a little bit more compassion,
how much how much more we would know and understand
and then be able to connect differently with other people?
Speaker 1 (15:02):
Spot on, Amen to that. I love it.
Speaker 3 (15:05):
I feel like we need to maybe do a whole
different episode on like compassion right like what it means,
what it means to truly show up from a compassionate
care in space.
Speaker 1 (15:16):
I'm writing it down a new episode coming soon.
Speaker 3 (15:20):
Lady, And if we don't get this episode to you sooner,
send us a message and let us know, because oftentimes
what happens, lady, is we are in this episode. We
are recording an episode, and we're talking and we're like vibing,
and we're like, this needs to be Oh yeah, this
is an idea, this needs to be an episode. And
(15:40):
we either if we don't write it down right away,
sometimes we forget okay and then yeah, and so hold
us accountable so that we can get you these great episodes.
Speaker 2 (15:55):
Please do because we respond to our dms, we look
at them, we do our best to at least at
her space podcast Lianes Intagram. So let us know, pull
up because we love to hear your feedback and we
will listen.
Speaker 1 (16:04):
To dom should we do?
Speaker 2 (16:06):
Should we start by defining vulnerability because I feel like
there's so many different definitions floating out there and it'd
be nice to ground us before we get into the
meat of the topic.
Speaker 3 (16:15):
Yes, yes, all right, So y'all, y'all know I love
a good defining the term, operationalizing the definition so that
we know how we are using it in this space.
So in this space, how we're going to be talking
about vulnerability is from the perspective of vulnerability. Is this
(16:39):
honest emotional exposure, right that the raw emotions and showing
up as your authentic self, right, but also recognizing that
vulnerability requires that it's a balance, that you're not oversharing,
(17:10):
that you are intentional right, but the overarching goal is
to allow other people to see the real you. It
means admitting mistakes, asking for help, expressing your needs, and showing,
(17:34):
like I said, those raw emotions.
Speaker 2 (17:37):
There we go, and before we dive into why we
resist vulnerability, dom and I were looking at a couple
of articles and there was.
Speaker 1 (17:45):
A little there.
Speaker 2 (17:47):
This article is really good from Psychology Today called Revealing
is Healing the Power of Vulnerability, And there's a little section.
I think this is toward the bottom of the article,
but I think it's a really great way to sort
of assure us into this next section where we talk
about why we resist vulnerability. And what it says here
is how you feel about being vulnerable. Of course, also
(18:08):
depends on how it's received by the person you're revealing
it to whether your declarations of love, fear, or insecurity
are met with validation or dismissal, reciprocation or not. Some
of this you have no control over, but some of
it you do. So I love that because it's so true.
It depends on like what is your past experience, like
(18:28):
what because some of us may have had some traumatic experiences.
We're like, fuck that, I'm not being vulnerable, like I'm
opening up, I'm closed off, like it is what it is,
and so we just want to, you know, usher us
into this conversation with that in mind. And so Tom,
when I think about why we resist vulnerability, right, I
would say one reason is definitely the fear of rejection.
Speaker 1 (18:49):
Right, Oh so definitely.
Speaker 2 (18:51):
Yeah, So like it could it could even be something like,
you know, if I show the world me, will I
still be loved?
Speaker 1 (18:56):
Will they still stick around?
Speaker 3 (18:58):
Right?
Speaker 2 (18:58):
And I think a lot of us, or some of us,
may hold back because we worry about people walking away.
I know this is something that I have dealt with
with abandonment issues, right, people walking away if they see
our flaws to get to know the road you, this
can come up and this can show up in dating, friendships,
even at work, right, where we hide parts of ourselves
(19:19):
to be accepted.
Speaker 1 (19:21):
So fear of rejection for sure.
Speaker 3 (19:24):
Yeah, And I like what you pointed out around how
it could be a learned behavior in the effort for
survival and protection that you are afraid of because of
previous experiences when you have been vulnerable. So for a
(19:47):
real life example, right, when as a child, someone hurts
your feelings and you cry, and your parents tells you
that's not a reason to cry, that this world out
here is rough, and if you're crying because somebody hurt
(20:13):
your feelings, you're gonna end up crying every day. So
suck it up and get tougher skin. So now you've
been taught to not cry, that crying will get you
rejected from your parents.
Speaker 1 (20:29):
Yeah, that is so real.
Speaker 3 (20:32):
And I think from the perspective of black parenting, it
was part of survival exactly right, going back to slavery,
that you couldn't cry because in those in that time, crying,
(20:57):
crying was a weakness, and your weaknesses could be used
against you to cause more harm. Yeah, to even separate families.
And so I understand it, and it's something that we
have to work we have to work past.
Speaker 1 (21:17):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (21:19):
So I think the next reason, the next hurdle that
may present itself for folks is this fear of judgment, right,
and it comes at this this opportunity, will no not opportunity,
It comes at this this moment of worrying that you're
(21:43):
gonna be misunderstood or labeled. Right. So again going back
to the going back to school days, playground days, right,
and that somebody is on a playground and they hurt,
they say something hurtful.
Speaker 1 (22:02):
Right, So.
Speaker 3 (22:05):
I think about elementary school kids and how you know,
playing the dozens right, and the telling, you know, telling
that your mama.
Speaker 1 (22:16):
Jokes, Oh my gosh, yes.
Speaker 3 (22:20):
Cruel times, cruel, cruel times.
Speaker 1 (22:22):
So happy we're not there anymore.
Speaker 3 (22:24):
In the effort, in the effort to build thicker skin, right,
And again going that goes back and goes back generations.
But in those moments, you're being, you're being someone's saying
something about your mama ors or about you, picking at
(22:45):
the things that you might be insecure about, and you cry.
And now you're labeled cry baby, terry.
Speaker 1 (22:55):
Damn now right and now.
Speaker 3 (22:58):
And now that becomes that becomes your nickname on the playground.
Everybody knows you as cry.
Speaker 1 (23:04):
Baby, terry terrible.
Speaker 3 (23:07):
And so then you move forward as an adult and
you don't want to, you don't. You have now been
conditioned again out of protection for yourself, out of survival,
that you don't let people see you cry. Because that
label of being called cry baby. You don't like that label.
Speaker 2 (23:31):
Yeah, And now I do it to my kids and
tell them you can't be crying. Don't Yeah, you're projected
onto everyone else. Now crying is weakness. No, that's so true.
That's so true. And I also think down the vulnerability
it opened. It can open the door for people to
form opinions about you, and that can be scary. So
you share something and now you're worrying about, oh, man,
are they going to see me as being weak or
(23:53):
too much or even unprofessional. I know that's something we've
talked about on the podcast. But when I think about
oh you blatch it and celebrating the multifaceted woman that
that was such a huge thing for me and my
evolution as a.
Speaker 1 (24:04):
Woman, Like how do I share it?
Speaker 2 (24:06):
How do I showcase the I mean people see the
class side, they saw the class but how do our
showcase the you know, the ratchet.
Speaker 1 (24:12):
And the bougie as well? And you know, fear of judgment.
Speaker 2 (24:15):
I remember down back when we first started this podcast
about seven years ago, an autumn years ago, and we
were having that serious conversation and we were like, yeah, okay, Dom,
Terry we were like, do we want to cuss on
the podcast or are we going to keep it clean?
And we've had people review the podcast and they've given
us like one star and like too much cussing, even
though we don't cuss all like that as every now
(24:36):
and then. But we decided and we said to ourselves,
you know what, even though we're professional women, like it
was important to be authentic and if this is a
podcast where we're going to be our real selves, our
true selves talk about the shit we're going to talk about,
and we wanted to feel like, lady, as you're listening, ideally,
you feel like you're a friend in your head, you
on your couch, or you might be on a toilet. Okay,
you might be in a kitchen cooking, but we wear
(24:56):
with you and we have a girl talk and we
don't we're unfiltered and the girl talk, we're unfiltered in
the group chat. And so we wanted it to be
that experience and that was important to us. And it
may not be everyone's cup of tea, but that's what's
important to us. That's what's authentic. And I think there's
a level of vulnerability and showing up in that way,
because yes, go I've had professional people in a professional
(25:17):
settings like, oh yeah, I listen to your podcast and
every time sometimes I'm.
Speaker 1 (25:21):
Like, oh shit, what episode did you listen to?
Speaker 2 (25:24):
Did you listen to when we had the porn Star
our own, and like, it is what it is. That's
where hey, we're covering all the topics and all the things.
So it's a part of the process.
Speaker 3 (25:33):
It is a part of that process.
Speaker 1 (25:35):
Yes, okay, So.
Speaker 2 (25:37):
That takes us to the next reason why people might
resist vulnerability, which is past wounds, which we kind of
talked about before. Right, So there are times where vulnerability
can lead to betrayal or shame, or times where it
has led to that, and so you believe that may
happen again. And so if you've opened up before and
you've been hurt, it's natural to want to protect yourself
the next time.
Speaker 3 (25:56):
Right.
Speaker 2 (25:56):
Maybe it's betrayal or gossip or someone just missed you
that can cause us to put up walls.
Speaker 1 (26:02):
It's natural.
Speaker 2 (26:02):
I think it's a part of survival and self preservation
in some ways, and so that might be another reason, yes.
Speaker 3 (26:09):
And then I think you know this next piece, we've
touched on it slightly, but I want to take it
in a different direction of cultural conditioning. Right. So we've
talked about it from this lens of how we've been
socialized and conditioned as black folks for our overall survival,
(26:30):
particularly maintaining our families and things like that. But I
also think it's important for us to note that the
cultural conditioning, as we mentioned at the top of the show,
of being the strong black woman, right, and that we
were socialized to believe that being strong meant that we
(26:58):
were stoic, that being strong meant almost yes, almost like
a statue, that we are impenetrable, that you don't get
emotion out of us. That for our survival, for the
(27:21):
survival of all of those around us, we have to
keep it together. And keeping it together and being strong
meant there's no room for emotion, there's no room for
us to be our full selves. And so then that
(27:44):
robs us of that opportunity to truly be vulnerable. But
if we've been conditioned that this is what it means
to this is what being a black woman looks like,
then we keep it going.
Speaker 1 (28:00):
That is such a good point.
Speaker 2 (28:00):
I know we have a lot of stuff going on
in the world right now, and at the same time,
I think there are so many blessings to being alive
at this time with the privileges that we do have,
and also with these conversations that are being hady, because
when you talk about cultural conditioning, it makes me think
about the fact that back then, a lot of times,
like when many of us grew up, we the people
(28:21):
who were raising us, they didn't even have the bandwidth
or capacity to hold space for the emotions that we
had a lot of times. Right, so even if we
were having the conversations, it's like maybe they weren't saying
keep it together, big girls, don't cry, don't cry, but
they didn't even know what to do with it. And
it was just honestly like not no slight to them.
It just wasn't on their shelf. They literally did not
(28:42):
have the capacity, like what are you going to do?
I don't know what to do with it. A lot
of people, and I think a lot of people are
like that too. When you see someone crying, you some
people don't know how to handle it. You're like, oh shit,
just make it stop. Like actually uncomfortable, right, Okay, So
we're gonna talk about number five and then down we
had the clock. I'm like, this my be a part
to y'all, so we we won't see all. We want
(29:02):
to see what we can do, see how far we go.
But we got a lot more content to cover ours.
Number five here is control O child control. Vulnerability often
means surrendering the mask of control. I can relate to
this one. And so when you think about being vulnerable, right,
it can be risky at times because it means letting
(29:22):
go of the image we create or the image that
we curate. Right, And we talked about seeing black women
cry and public. I mean, crying is one of the
most just authentic releases that you can have. And when
you are really crying, there's not much curation that you
(29:43):
can do there.
Speaker 1 (29:44):
It just comes out, comes out, and Lord have mercy,
let it be a don't let it be an ugly cry.
And you're just like, this is it.
Speaker 2 (29:50):
I mean, it feels good after and sometimes in the
moment it feels good, but it's just you don't have
control over that. It's like your body is letting go
of what needs to be released. And I think sometimes
it feels safer to manage how people see us than
to show the messy truth, right, I mean, there have
been so many times I can I'm sure you can
think of this too, lady where you started crying. You're like,
(30:10):
I'm sorry, we get it together, let me stop wipe
your tears, and you try to cover it up and
wipe it away. I do want to say another thing
down before we dive in deep, and I'm sure you
have something to add. I love the fact that we
are grounding this conversation and safety as well, Like we
talked about how being vulnerable as a black woman is nuanced,
and so there is a level of safety that we
need to consider because all spaces are not safe for
(30:32):
us and we should not be vulnerable in all spaces
because of that. And so I love that word grounding
it yes, and that.
Speaker 3 (30:39):
Yes, And you know, as you were saying that, it
made me think about times when when I have and
I think vulnerability right now, what comes up for me
is like crying, but I think that there are other
emotions that are part of that vulnerability. Rightsolutely that for me,
(31:00):
I think about those spaces and places where I did
not feel comfortable being my authentic self.
Speaker 1 (31:12):
Right just period like being period.
Speaker 3 (31:15):
Yeah, And a lot of that goes back to who
are the people around me?
Speaker 1 (31:25):
Yeah?
Speaker 3 (31:26):
And like what role are they serving in my life?
Speaker 1 (31:29):
Mm?
Speaker 5 (31:29):
Hm.
Speaker 3 (31:31):
So I think about oftentimes in a profession, in professional settings,
there are, there have been, there still are people that
I interact with that you know, this is not you
are not gonna get my full self. You are not
(31:53):
gonna get all of me, Yeah, because I don't trust you.
Speaker 1 (31:58):
What comes what makes you trust them?
Speaker 2 (32:00):
Like, is there anything in particular that's happening in the
environment where you're like, I can't I can't show all
of me or bring all of me.
Speaker 3 (32:08):
So I think that there early in my career there
were certain spaces that were evaluative spaces.
Speaker 1 (32:16):
Oh okay, right, yeah.
Speaker 3 (32:19):
So now I think about for myself currently, when you
work for other people, you are constantly in when you
have an employer, a boss, you are constantly in any
valuative space, right, But I think back to early phases
in my career where I did not trust who was
(32:44):
doing the evaluating and whether or not the evaluative criteria
was accurate to me, Like were they truly evaluating me
based on who I was and what my tasks were?
Speaker 1 (33:06):
Yeah?
Speaker 3 (33:07):
Right, So with I being held to standards that were
impossible to meet or not actually reflective of the work
that I was doing. Yes, okay, Right, and so when
I and when I think about other women in black
women in these evaluative spaces, yeah, oftentimes these evaluative spaces
(33:33):
are used.
Speaker 1 (33:34):
Against us, yeah, or used.
Speaker 3 (33:38):
Not used in ways that will benefit us. Right. And
so there is a level of protection that we have
to enter those spaces with absolutely that there is a
level of code switching that is going to happen. Yes,
(33:59):
because for some of us, depending on where we're at,
a lot of a statistic the statistics show that a
lot of people are one paycheck away from being houseless
or not being able to make any ends meet, right, Yeah.
(34:20):
And so when your livelihood is dependent upon your professional
performance and what are those performance standards that you're being
measured against, if those things are not reflective of who
you truly are, then you cannot be vulnerable. And to
ask black women to be vulnerable in a workspace or
(34:46):
any space that is not set up with their best
interests at hearts, guess, makes absolutely no fucking sense to me.
Speaker 2 (34:59):
Dumb you over listen, give me the spatula because you over.
Speaker 1 (35:03):
There cooking, And that was a whole word. We need
to listen.
Speaker 2 (35:07):
That was so that is so true down because you know,
it's so funny when you said that, because I wrote
down colde switching because when you were sharing that, what
it made me think about is how a lot of
these tech companies, right, I've been working in Silicon Valley
for the past ten years, and a lot of these companies,
I don't know if it's just a tech thing or
Silicon Valley thing, but a lot of the companies, when
you get there, they say, bring your full self to work.
(35:27):
And that never set well with me because I'm like,
I'm not bringing my black ass full self to the job.
Speaker 1 (35:31):
No I'm not.
Speaker 2 (35:32):
And I used to I've heard people share their perspectives
about colde switching and saying how we need to just
be our authentic self and no colde switching, and I'm like,
that doesn't resonate with me. And I remember hearing this
black man. He said it so beautifully and I hope
I don't butcher it. But he said something around along
the lines of they don't have the luxury and don't
provide the protection for me to bring my full self
(35:54):
to work, so I will be code switching. I'm not
aving the conversations that I have with you, that I
have with my friends. I'm not bringing you know, how
you get around your people and you can get accent
kind of comes out, Like I know when I go
to Philly, people will be like, girl, did you just
like did you change the way?
Speaker 1 (36:07):
Like what just happened to your voice?
Speaker 2 (36:09):
Because I'll put on as Sarah James Roberts said when
she was at our show, I'll put on the AT
and T voice when I'm at work because that's what
I do.
Speaker 1 (36:16):
I'm doing what I need to do to you know,
get get the stuff done. And then when I want my.
Speaker 2 (36:20):
People, I notice that within myself, my energy just shifts.
My little you know, my little swag come out, the
little Philly jown come out, and you know, you do
your thing. And so I feel like it is important
for us to realize that nom that when we are
in spaces like you said, we're our best interest is
not at heart. No, you don't have to be your
full self in that space. If you feel safe to
do that, that's your prerogative, but you don't have to
(36:42):
come and do that. And if you need a code
switch to you can get that check and do what
you gotta do and build your dream, you know, because
many of us are building the dream on the side.
Speaker 3 (36:49):
You do.
Speaker 1 (36:49):
That's exactly now.
Speaker 2 (36:53):
No, this will be a really great time speaking of
control and why people resist vulnerability. I think this will
be a great time to read this article that we discussed,
this little snippet that this.
Speaker 1 (37:04):
Blew my mind. Lady, get ready for this.
Speaker 2 (37:05):
Okay, so we're back in the Psychology Today article called
Revealing its Healing the Power of Vulnerability. I believe it's
by Kaja Parina. I hope I'm saying her name correctly.
So this is what it said. Okay, you're ready for this, lady,
come in close. I read a story in The Atlantic
magazine recently written by a waiter and a midtown Manhattan
restaurant who reported that men choking in restaurants will sometimes,
(37:28):
out of fear of embarrassment, phide in the bathroom where
they'll die, where they'll die because they can't get help.
I mentioned this to an audience in Washington, DC shortly
after reading the story, and a fellow raised his hand
and said he'd once done exactly that, and the only
(37:50):
reason he was still around to tell the tale was
that someone happened to follow him into the bathroom and
administer the Heimlich maneuver, and other men raise their hands
and basically said that this was the truth for them.
That is, it's mind blowing, but I get it at
the same time because I think about what vulnerability means
to men in particular. But then there's a whole other
(38:11):
level when you think about black men. I think we
all have our own relationships and experiences with vulnerability. I mean,
when you think about black men in America and then
being vulnerable, I mean that's like a black man crying.
I think it's more acceptable now, But I mean when
I was raised, well many of us were raised, right,
that was that was pretty foreign.
Speaker 1 (38:31):
It was. Yeah, there's a lot to unpack that.
Speaker 3 (38:34):
There, there is a lot to unpact there. It's so
fascinating that now I find myself, yeah, having the opposite
reaction of if I'm in a space where I would expect, yeah,
some level of emotion or some let me be let
me be specific, because Okay, when I'm in a space
(38:57):
where I would expect want to cry, right, and I'm
not talking about therap because that's a whole different experience,
And I don't see the man crying. Yeah, I have
to actively remind myself that, particularly for older men, that
(39:20):
they have been socialized to not cry, right, And I
like literally have to tell myself that so that then
it might, depending on the context, depending on the situation,
it may push me to then say something mm hmm
so that they may feel so to make them to
(39:43):
hopefully create a space where they may feel more comfortable
to cry and give that if they've been holding it in.
Speaker 1 (39:53):
Okay, that is that's good.
Speaker 2 (39:55):
It's great to hear you say that as a therapist,
because some don't have this, specially especially certain Yeah, some
don't have that emotional intelligence and the history and the
understanding to do that. But from a therapist perspective, now,
what would you say are some of the.
Speaker 1 (40:15):
I guess I'm want to say that.
Speaker 2 (40:16):
The powerful transformations that you've witnessed with someone being vulnerable.
Speaker 3 (40:22):
So I think what most readily comes to comes to
mind are the college students that I work with. Yeah,
particularly some of the black women, right, okay, and they
come into therapy and I've seen the gamut. I've seen
(40:46):
some that in the majority me so the majority. What
will happen is that first time that they cry in session,
there's an apology, the oh, I'm sorry, I didn't I
didn't mean to, and and so it's me then saying,
(41:08):
you know, like having to actively say like, no, this
is your space, this is this is the space where
you can open up and you can cry and you
can experience whatever range of emotions, right because I've also
seen it when they get angry, that they come in
(41:31):
and they may be enraged about something, but then they
find themselves trying to contain it. And then I have
to say it's okay to be angry and I can
and letting them know that raising your voice, getting you know,
(41:52):
doing all the things. I'm I'm okay with it right now.
I do. I do also find myself being mindful of
particularly when I'm in a shared setting of and when
I say, when I'm in like a clinic or a center,
right when there's other offices. Yet I do find myself
(42:14):
being mindful of how loud they may emote. Yeah, but
I'm also very clear with them that me being mindful
of them emoting is about protecting their privacy. Yes, but
it's not about me being afraid. Because we have also
(42:36):
because we've also been socialized that when we express, when
we have the big emotions, yes, that people become afraid
of us.
Speaker 1 (42:45):
Yes.
Speaker 3 (42:47):
And so part of my job in the therapy set
that I believe is my job in the therapy space
is to make it okay to have those big emotions,
and we remind people that it's not it's not about
the emotion itself, that it is okay to have the emotion.
(43:07):
The problem comes in with what you do after that
and with that emotion, right like what your behaviors or actions,
those are the things that get you into trouble not
experienced not having the emotion itself.
Speaker 2 (43:26):
Oh my goodness, Doma, I love that so much because
I know I want to ask another question and share
two things. I know that during my process of healing
from a lot of childhood trauma, I never had the
space to be angry, Like I didn't have the space
to be like, fuck this shit, I have rage, I
want to punch some shit, I want to fuck some shitup.
I didn't have space to do that. And I remember
being working with a therapist and then letting me know,
(43:47):
like you are, you have every right to be upset,
and like letting me know like you should be angry
about these things that was terrible that happened. I was like, okay,
like it was, I feel emotional now, like it was
a relief of like, wow, I.
Speaker 1 (43:57):
Have permission to do that.
Speaker 2 (43:59):
So with that said, we use crying as an example
in a lot of instances, but of course we know
that that's not the only emotion that can show up
when you're being vulnerable. So we talked about anger a bit.
What are some of the other emotions that you see
come up when someone is leaning into their vulnerability in
life or in a therapy session?
Speaker 3 (44:17):
Joy?
Speaker 1 (44:18):
Joy? Oh, talk about joy? Why is joy? Talk about it?
Speaker 3 (44:23):
So I think, you know, I want to talk. So
a lot of thoughts came up with the thought of joy, right,
joy and pleasure and that. So there's two different things
that come up for me, one around joy and pleasure
(44:44):
when it comes to sex. That as as women, we
are socialized to not like necessarily that we can't necessarily
enjoy sex. And sex isn't more of us, right, okay,
and not for us? Sex is for everybody anybody, right,
(45:09):
And there are ways in which we get to express
that and experience it. And you know, I'm very clear
that it needs to be consue. Whatever you're doing needs
to be consensual. Yes, And so the idea that a
woman can one actually experience an orgasm, okay, and then
(45:32):
to enjoy that orgasm like.
Speaker 2 (45:34):
Expressive yes, yes.
Speaker 3 (45:39):
The release literally that a woman can experience when they
have an orgasm.
Speaker 4 (45:52):
Right like.
Speaker 3 (45:55):
That. That is a level of vulnerability that we don't
often acknowledge.
Speaker 2 (46:00):
Yes, speak, Oh my gosh, Okay, now we may have
to do an episode about this because when you talk
about that dom it has me thinking about myself and
also friends, where many of us when we first started
having sex, we're not having orgasms?
Speaker 1 (46:12):
One because it was like, oh I was supposed to
be having that thing. I didn't know. I didn't realize it.
Speaker 2 (46:17):
But then two, being comfortable enough, safe enough and tune
with your body enough to let go fully, comfortable enough
with your partner to let go fully and to let
go of that control and to be vulnerable in that
way as well.
Speaker 3 (46:32):
Yes, yes, that is. It's a powerful experience. It is
a freeing. It is a liberating experience.
Speaker 1 (46:44):
And you are deserving of it. We are all deserving
of that.
Speaker 3 (46:47):
Yeah, yes, yes, yes, yes we are. And so so
there's that piece and then there's the joy in other contexts,
right of I think about black women being out and about, right,
and how when we are having a time, okay, when
(47:12):
we are when we are with our girlfriends and having
a time, Yeah, the level of laughter and tackling and
just the overall merriment and enjoyment yes, that comes from
those moments. Yeah, to me is a signal of vulnerability, right,
(47:38):
That you are with people that you feel so comfortable with,
that you feel free enough with to let that joy out. Yeah,
That you're not feeling like you have to you have
(48:01):
to contain it, that you have to give that cute
little giggle. Yeah, And there is room for the cute giggle.
I'm here for you for sure, But you feel comfortable
and free enough that that big boisterous laugh yeah naturally escapes.
Speaker 2 (48:23):
That just sounds so amazing, don As you say that.
It just makes me think about the fact that we
all deserve to be around people and community with and
partnered with right people where we feel people that make
us feel safe, where we can be ourselves, where we
can be vulnerable. And I think that if you know,
if we find ourselves in situations where that's not the case, right,
(48:46):
whether it's a friendship, a relationship, a job, shit shit.
Speaker 1 (48:50):
Or whatever it might be.
Speaker 2 (48:51):
Yes, we may have able to change it immediately, but
it should give us a We should be able to
pause and be like, huh okay, let me like is
this serving me right? Like is there a better community,
a better space, a better opportunity for me? Because the
life that we have is precious? Life is precious.
Speaker 1 (49:10):
I mean yes, it is.
Speaker 2 (49:11):
Yes, it's that literally that life is precious and we
deserve to have pleasure, joy, vulnerability in a safe environment.
And lady, we did not even get into the rest
of the content that we were going to cover. So
what we're going to do is, I don't know, dom
if we want to do a recap, we could figure
it out, but we are going to cover the rest
of this content in a part two episode because we
(49:33):
kind of, yeah, we shifted it up a little bit.
We went with the spirit. We let spirit lead today.
Speaker 3 (49:38):
Yes we did, and so yes, in ladies, stay tuned
for part two where we will continue this conversation and
we'll talk about we'll talk more about what how to
safely practice vulnerability right, Like what are the steps? Because
I think that's the piece that like that's the next
phase right once you you have identified what vulnerability looks
(50:04):
like for you, is how do we practice it? Like
put it into practice? And so that's what we will
talk about in part two. All right, So, but before
we wrap up, I do want to take a moment
(50:24):
to give a special shout out because I told her
that I would to Nay and you can find her
on social media at Nay so am ia. So it's
Nae dot s O dot M. I a shout out.
Speaker 4 (50:39):
To u, Nay.
Speaker 3 (50:40):
I was at a brunch cruise a couple of weeks
ago with a friend and Nay approached me and said
that she has been listening to the podcast, and so
I told her I would give her a shout out.
So shout out to you, Nay. Thank you for listening.
Speaker 1 (50:55):
Dot out to you, Nay. I love that so much.
Job a lady.
Speaker 2 (50:58):
If you want to catch the after and also if
you want to support the podcast, you can head on
over to herspace podcast dot com. You can click anywhere
you see Patreon and subscribe to our Patreon so you
can see us on video as we record these episodes
and also to catch us on the after show. Also
make sure you hit us up on Instagram at Herspace podcast,
you can check out our content, send us some dms,
let us know what topics you want us to cover,
(51:20):
what events you want us to host like we our
ears are open. Okay, we're here and we'll catch you
in the after show.
Speaker 5 (51:25):
Lady, it's doctor dom here from the Cultivating her Space podcast.
Are you currently a resident of the state of California
and contemplating starting your therapy journey? Well, if so, please
reach out to me at doctor Dominique Brusard dot com.
That's d R D O M I N I q
(51:48):
U E b R O U ss ar D dot
com to schedule a free fifteen minute consultation.
Speaker 3 (51:58):
I look forward to hearing from you. Thanks for tuning
into Cultivating her Space. Remember that while this podcast is
all about healing, empowerment, and resilience, it's not a substitute
for therapy. If you or someone you know need support,
check out resources like Therapy for Black Girls or Psychology Today.
(52:21):
If you love today's episode, do us a favor and
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Speaker 1 (52:36):
Before we meet again, repeat after me.
Speaker 2 (52:39):
I honor my journey by balancing effort and rest to
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Friday for more inspiration from cultivating her space. In the meantime,
be sure to connect with us on Instagram at her
Space Podcast
On this week's episode of Cultivating her Space.
Speaker 2 (00:04):
Crying is one of the most just authentic releases that
you can have, And when you are really crying, there's
not much curation that you can do there. It just
comes out, comes out, and Lord, have mercy, let it
be a don't let it be an ugly cry, and
you're just like, this is it. I mean, it feels
good after and sometimes in the moment it feels good,
(00:25):
but it's just you don't have control over that. It's
like your body is letting go of what needs to
be released.
Speaker 3 (00:32):
Hey, lady, have you ever felt like the world just
doesn't get you? Well? We do.
Speaker 2 (00:41):
Welcome to Cultivating her Space, the podcast dedicated to.
Speaker 1 (00:44):
Uplifting and empowering women like you.
Speaker 3 (00:47):
We're your hosts, doctor Dominique Grussard and educator and psychologists.
Speaker 2 (00:52):
And Terry Lomax, a techie and transformational speaker.
Speaker 3 (00:56):
Join us every week for authentic conversations about everything from
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Speaker 2 (01:09):
Before we dive in, make sure you hit that follow
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Speaker 1 (01:13):
Lady.
Speaker 2 (01:14):
We are black founded and black owned, and your support
will help us reach even more women like you.
Speaker 3 (01:20):
Now, let's get into this week's episode of Cultivating her Space.
Speaker 2 (01:27):
If you're feeling stuck, overwhelmed, or unsure of your next steps,
this is for you. Hey, lady, is Tea here and
I just want to invite you to my free goal
map like a pro coaching workshop, where I'll share the
five proven steps to get unstuck and achieve your goals.
Whether you're feeling overwhelmed by all your ideas, juggling scattered ideas,
(01:48):
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chance to go to a roadmap that fits your life
and set you up for success.
Speaker 1 (02:08):
I hope to see you there.
Speaker 3 (02:11):
Our quote of the day, being a strong black woman
doesn't mean that you can't be vulnerable. It's okay to cry.
It's okay if you're having a bad day. It's okay
if some days you feel like giving up. It's okay
if you need to ask for help. That quote comes
(02:35):
to us from Stephanie Lahart. Now, I do feel the
need to truly, truly, truly reread this one for the
folks in the back, because I know that a lot
of us have struggled or are struggling with vulnerability, and
we need to hear this. Being a strong black woman
(02:58):
doesn't mean that you can't be vulnerable. It's okay to cry.
It's okay if you're having a bad day. It's okay.
If some days you feel like giving up. It's okay
if you need to ask for help. All right, see
(03:23):
you hear this, and you know the topic that we're
talking about today. What comes up for you?
Speaker 1 (03:30):
Girl?
Speaker 2 (03:30):
So first of all, I love, love, love this quote,
and lady, this is actually a longer quote that we
didn't want to read because it's like it's it.
Speaker 1 (03:38):
I mean, we could discuss it for the whole episode.
Speaker 2 (03:40):
But I love the entire quote, and I love this
particular portion of the quote because I just feel like,
for so long, many of us did not have the
luxury to lean into that. And now we're in a
space in life where we're having more conversations about mental health,
about taking off the Superwoman cap because many of us
have had to be strong Black women since we were
(04:01):
little girls, you know, like we had to be adults
and had to do adult things and manage adult responsibilities.
And so as you read that quote, I just kind
of wanted to like, oh, just like sitting in it,
you know what I mean, sitting in that quote like
a comfy I. It's the comfy couch, you know, So
I love it. What about you, don when you hear
that quote, When you've read that quote, what came up
for you?
Speaker 1 (04:22):
Yeah?
Speaker 3 (04:23):
It made me think about how we define what it means,
or how we have been told to define what it
means to be a strong Black woman, right, And it
just makes me think about all the things that previous generations,
(04:45):
our current generation has not had the luxury, the privilege,
the permission, yes to be because of the society, right,
and and just really thinking about how the current space
(05:05):
and time that we're in. It just really got me
thinking about how are we truly defining vulnerability, specifically for
black women, and how do we show up for each
other when that's expressed, How do we show up for
(05:28):
ourselves when it's expressed? And so I'm looking forward to
our conversation today.
Speaker 1 (05:36):
Oh girl, me too.
Speaker 2 (05:37):
You gotta be excited, Okay, So let's go ahead and
let's get into it. Latest week can dive into this
conversation a bit more deeply, and hopefully you have your journals,
you can take notes and all that good stuff.
Speaker 1 (05:47):
But let's just talk about vulnerability. Right.
Speaker 2 (05:48):
When we often hear vulnerability, it can sound soft or scary, right,
or even risky. And I think that you were saying
down a lot of us were raised to protect ourselves.
Is at all costs right to be strong, to not
let people see our cracks. And I know many of
us hear what happens in this house stays in the
house on the tun nobody our business.
Speaker 1 (06:08):
Don't let them see you down.
Speaker 2 (06:09):
Like that's the stuff that we heard, right, But the
truth is vulnerability is really where the magic happens. It's
what allows us to connect, to heal and to grow.
Speaker 1 (06:20):
Yeah.
Speaker 4 (06:20):
And I think when I when I hear that, and
I think about how we label the strong black woman, right,
and to me, that vulnerability is our strength.
Speaker 1 (06:37):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (06:38):
The because when we think about what the when we
really break it down, right, and we break down what
the word strong means, what strength means, we're speaking of
it's viewed in a positive light, and the idea of
strength means that it requires more. And so when I
(07:01):
think about the word vulnerability and how it's expressed in
our society today, to me, vulnerability truly is a strength
because it because the way our current society is set
up to express vulnerability requires a lot, and we don't
(07:25):
want in this current climate that we're in, we need
more vulnerability, but it does take it does take a
lot to get there. And so I think today what's
going to be so beautiful about this conversation is that
(07:45):
we're breaking this apart and we're talking more about what
vulnerability means. We're talking about why so many of us
might resist it. But more importantly, we're going to give
you steps on how to practice vulnerability in ways that
(08:08):
can be helpful for you.
Speaker 2 (08:11):
I love that so much because I do think that
you said something really powerful down vulnerability. In my opinion
and our opinion, I'm sure vulnerability for black women it
may look different than vulnerability looks for other people, right,
because of the things that we deal with being black women, right,
And we're going to get into that in just a bit,
but let's talk about some I guess you can call
(08:33):
them kickoff questions that we can discuss before we dive
into the juicy topic. As we like to say, can
you think of or share a time when you witness
someone being vulnerable and just talk about how it impacted
you or shifted the way you see them or possibly
even the way you see yourself.
Speaker 3 (08:51):
Yeah, I you know what immediately comes up for me
is not just one instant, but multiple instances of when
I see black women crying in public. And when I
say crying in public, I mean we could be at
(09:15):
a community event and someone share something that's that's powerful
or that invokes tears, and I look and I see
a black woman crying, right, or someone is sharing their
story and they get emotional and they allow the tears
(09:42):
to flow. And for me, when I see that, it
took a while in my personal life and in therapy
it's different, and I'll talk about that a little bit later,
but it took a while in my personal life to
be in a space where I felt comfortable letting it happen.
Speaker 1 (10:09):
Right, letting happen for you.
Speaker 3 (10:11):
No letting it happen for witnessing it happened for someone else, right,
Because I think oftentimes the urge is to.
Speaker 1 (10:18):
Comfort, Oh got you, got you okay?
Speaker 3 (10:21):
Right? And so or for me, for me, I'll speak
for myself. For me, oftentimes it was this urge to
want to comfort, which would then shut down the tears
or stop their tears, right, yeah. Or I would sit
(10:41):
and I would witness, but I would be I would
be uncomfortable, yes, and so I would just be silently
praying that this would hurry up and be done right,
Like I'm grateful that they feel comfortable enough to share
in this open space, like, oh, okay, this is great,
but let's get this done. Let's move on to the.
Speaker 1 (11:01):
Next thing, right, yes, yes.
Speaker 3 (11:04):
And so when I finally got to that space where
I got comfortable being able to witness it without the
urge to comfort them, yeah, without the internal angst, then
(11:26):
those moments became even more powerful.
Speaker 2 (11:30):
Oh oh my gosh, that just okay, you made me
think of like one hundred things, or you were just
sharing that. So one of the things I want to
say is, it's so interesting that you said that because
many of us were not taught, and we haven't been
taught how to sit with the discomfort of either our
own emotions or someone else's emotions, and like you said,
even when like a child cries or someone close to
(11:51):
you cries, it's like, let me go, let me go
comfort them. Usually it could be various responses, but usually
it's let me comfort them so they can stop crying.
Speaker 1 (12:00):
Yeah, sometimes it's so important to just let it be.
Speaker 2 (12:02):
And it makes me think about a few of my
initial therapy sessions that I have when I first started therapy,
when I would get I feel like I came to
the session more like talking about things from like an
intellectual or like you know what I mean, from the
intellectuals that were like this happened, and I understand that
this happened, and so this is how I reacted. So
then they started getting me to tell a bit of
a story and the asking why.
Speaker 1 (12:23):
You know this down because you do this every day.
Speaker 2 (12:25):
Dive it deeper and girl, when I would start to
get emotional and cry, like pausing and we take a
deep breath of me stop like wa wait, stay right there.
I'm trying to speed past this part. But it's like
sit with that for a minute, which is so uncomfortable,
but it's like, oh, it just feels like such a
relief when you do that. Okay, I want to share
something because I saw this happen recently. So there was
(12:49):
a student of mine from years ago when I was
managing a residence hall at a university. There was a
student of mine who lived there and they were having
they were experiencing some challenges like we make conflicts whatever,
And recently I saw them post something online and they
basically just shared share their story in such a major
way on a big platform, and it was so touching.
(13:12):
And I literally I don't often comment on people's post
that much. I'm more like, Okay, I'm gonna post, respond
to who responds to me, and then go. But it
was so compelling and so beautiful, and I was just like,
oh my gosh. I just couldn't believe that she had
been through all that she had been through.
Speaker 1 (13:27):
And I didn't.
Speaker 2 (13:27):
I wasn't even aware of that when I was close
to her and she was living in the building that
I managed. But I thought about how it made me feel,
and it made me have more compassion for her, right,
it made me have I feel like sometimes when someone's vulnerable,
it can also you can have more patience with them
and understand like, oh, well, you know what they may
be showing up this way because this happened, right and
also lend more understanding.
Speaker 3 (13:51):
Yes, yeah, and as you were saying, then would what
came up for me? Is this notion of what would
it really be like if we engaged with everyone from
that lens automatically right like this all because we hear
(14:15):
this phrase all the time. You don't know what someone
might be going through, right like we hear it it
and so but how many of us actually engage from
that perspective of we don't know what someone is coming
to us with, what they might be going through, what
(14:39):
they might have just encountered right before they got to us.
And if we engage with a little bit more compassion,
how much how much more we would know and understand
and then be able to connect differently with other people?
Speaker 1 (15:02):
Spot on, Amen to that. I love it.
Speaker 3 (15:05):
I feel like we need to maybe do a whole
different episode on like compassion right like what it means,
what it means to truly show up from a compassionate
care in space.
Speaker 1 (15:16):
I'm writing it down a new episode coming soon.
Speaker 3 (15:20):
Lady, And if we don't get this episode to you sooner,
send us a message and let us know, because oftentimes
what happens, lady, is we are in this episode. We
are recording an episode, and we're talking and we're like vibing,
and we're like, this needs to be Oh yeah, this
is an idea, this needs to be an episode. And
(15:40):
we either if we don't write it down right away,
sometimes we forget okay and then yeah, and so hold
us accountable so that we can get you these great episodes.
Speaker 2 (15:55):
Please do because we respond to our dms, we look
at them, we do our best to at least at
her space podcast Lianes Intagram. So let us know, pull
up because we love to hear your feedback and we
will listen.
Speaker 1 (16:04):
To dom should we do?
Speaker 2 (16:06):
Should we start by defining vulnerability because I feel like
there's so many different definitions floating out there and it'd
be nice to ground us before we get into the
meat of the topic.
Speaker 3 (16:15):
Yes, yes, all right, So y'all, y'all know I love
a good defining the term, operationalizing the definition so that
we know how we are using it in this space.
So in this space, how we're going to be talking
about vulnerability is from the perspective of vulnerability. Is this
(16:39):
honest emotional exposure, right that the raw emotions and showing
up as your authentic self, right, but also recognizing that
vulnerability requires that it's a balance, that you're not oversharing,
(17:10):
that you are intentional right, but the overarching goal is
to allow other people to see the real you. It
means admitting mistakes, asking for help, expressing your needs, and showing,
(17:34):
like I said, those raw emotions.
Speaker 2 (17:37):
There we go, and before we dive into why we
resist vulnerability, dom and I were looking at a couple
of articles and there was.
Speaker 1 (17:45):
A little there.
Speaker 2 (17:47):
This article is really good from Psychology Today called Revealing
is Healing the Power of Vulnerability, And there's a little section.
I think this is toward the bottom of the article,
but I think it's a really great way to sort
of assure us into this next section where we talk
about why we resist vulnerability. And what it says here
is how you feel about being vulnerable. Of course, also
(18:08):
depends on how it's received by the person you're revealing
it to whether your declarations of love, fear, or insecurity
are met with validation or dismissal, reciprocation or not. Some
of this you have no control over, but some of
it you do. So I love that because it's so true.
It depends on like what is your past experience, like
(18:28):
what because some of us may have had some traumatic experiences.
We're like, fuck that, I'm not being vulnerable, like I'm
opening up, I'm closed off, like it is what it is,
and so we just want to, you know, usher us
into this conversation with that in mind. And so Tom,
when I think about why we resist vulnerability, right, I
would say one reason is definitely the fear of rejection.
Speaker 1 (18:49):
Right, Oh so definitely.
Speaker 2 (18:51):
Yeah, So like it could it could even be something like,
you know, if I show the world me, will I
still be loved?
Speaker 1 (18:56):
Will they still stick around?
Speaker 3 (18:58):
Right?
Speaker 2 (18:58):
And I think a lot of us, or some of us,
may hold back because we worry about people walking away.
I know this is something that I have dealt with
with abandonment issues, right, people walking away if they see
our flaws to get to know the road you, this
can come up and this can show up in dating, friendships,
even at work, right, where we hide parts of ourselves
(19:19):
to be accepted.
Speaker 1 (19:21):
So fear of rejection for sure.
Speaker 3 (19:24):
Yeah, And I like what you pointed out around how
it could be a learned behavior in the effort for
survival and protection that you are afraid of because of
previous experiences when you have been vulnerable. So for a
(19:47):
real life example, right, when as a child, someone hurts
your feelings and you cry, and your parents tells you
that's not a reason to cry, that this world out
here is rough, and if you're crying because somebody hurt
(20:13):
your feelings, you're gonna end up crying every day. So
suck it up and get tougher skin. So now you've
been taught to not cry, that crying will get you
rejected from your parents.
Speaker 1 (20:29):
Yeah, that is so real.
Speaker 3 (20:32):
And I think from the perspective of black parenting, it
was part of survival exactly right, going back to slavery,
that you couldn't cry because in those in that time, crying,
(20:57):
crying was a weakness, and your weaknesses could be used
against you to cause more harm. Yeah, to even separate families.
And so I understand it, and it's something that we
have to work we have to work past.
Speaker 1 (21:17):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (21:19):
So I think the next reason, the next hurdle that
may present itself for folks is this fear of judgment, right,
and it comes at this this opportunity, will no not opportunity,
It comes at this this moment of worrying that you're
(21:43):
gonna be misunderstood or labeled. Right. So again going back
to the going back to school days, playground days, right,
and that somebody is on a playground and they hurt,
they say something hurtful.
Speaker 1 (22:02):
Right, So.
Speaker 3 (22:05):
I think about elementary school kids and how you know,
playing the dozens right, and the telling, you know, telling
that your mama.
Speaker 1 (22:16):
Jokes, Oh my gosh, yes.
Speaker 3 (22:20):
Cruel times, cruel, cruel times.
Speaker 1 (22:22):
So happy we're not there anymore.
Speaker 3 (22:24):
In the effort, in the effort to build thicker skin, right,
And again going that goes back and goes back generations.
But in those moments, you're being, you're being someone's saying
something about your mama ors or about you, picking at
(22:45):
the things that you might be insecure about, and you cry.
And now you're labeled cry baby, terry.
Speaker 1 (22:55):
Damn now right and now.
Speaker 3 (22:58):
And now that becomes that becomes your nickname on the playground.
Everybody knows you as cry.
Speaker 1 (23:04):
Baby, terry terrible.
Speaker 3 (23:07):
And so then you move forward as an adult and
you don't want to, you don't. You have now been
conditioned again out of protection for yourself, out of survival,
that you don't let people see you cry. Because that
label of being called cry baby. You don't like that label.
Speaker 2 (23:31):
Yeah, And now I do it to my kids and
tell them you can't be crying. Don't Yeah, you're projected
onto everyone else. Now crying is weakness. No, that's so true.
That's so true. And I also think down the vulnerability
it opened. It can open the door for people to
form opinions about you, and that can be scary. So
you share something and now you're worrying about, oh, man,
are they going to see me as being weak or
(23:53):
too much or even unprofessional. I know that's something we've
talked about on the podcast. But when I think about
oh you blatch it and celebrating the multifaceted woman that
that was such a huge thing for me and my
evolution as a.
Speaker 1 (24:04):
Woman, Like how do I share it?
Speaker 2 (24:06):
How do I showcase the I mean people see the
class side, they saw the class but how do our
showcase the you know, the ratchet.
Speaker 1 (24:12):
And the bougie as well? And you know, fear of judgment.
Speaker 2 (24:15):
I remember down back when we first started this podcast
about seven years ago, an autumn years ago, and we
were having that serious conversation and we were like, yeah, okay, Dom,
Terry we were like, do we want to cuss on
the podcast or are we going to keep it clean?
And we've had people review the podcast and they've given
us like one star and like too much cussing, even
though we don't cuss all like that as every now
(24:36):
and then. But we decided and we said to ourselves,
you know what, even though we're professional women, like it
was important to be authentic and if this is a
podcast where we're going to be our real selves, our
true selves talk about the shit we're going to talk about,
and we wanted to feel like, lady, as you're listening, ideally,
you feel like you're a friend in your head, you
on your couch, or you might be on a toilet. Okay,
you might be in a kitchen cooking, but we wear
(24:56):
with you and we have a girl talk and we
don't we're unfiltered and the girl talk, we're unfiltered in
the group chat. And so we wanted it to be
that experience and that was important to us. And it
may not be everyone's cup of tea, but that's what's
important to us. That's what's authentic. And I think there's
a level of vulnerability and showing up in that way,
because yes, go I've had professional people in a professional
(25:17):
settings like, oh yeah, I listen to your podcast and
every time sometimes I'm.
Speaker 1 (25:21):
Like, oh shit, what episode did you listen to?
Speaker 2 (25:24):
Did you listen to when we had the porn Star
our own, and like, it is what it is. That's
where hey, we're covering all the topics and all the things.
So it's a part of the process.
Speaker 3 (25:33):
It is a part of that process.
Speaker 1 (25:35):
Yes, okay, So.
Speaker 2 (25:37):
That takes us to the next reason why people might
resist vulnerability, which is past wounds, which we kind of
talked about before. Right, So there are times where vulnerability
can lead to betrayal or shame, or times where it
has led to that, and so you believe that may
happen again. And so if you've opened up before and
you've been hurt, it's natural to want to protect yourself
the next time.
Speaker 3 (25:56):
Right.
Speaker 2 (25:56):
Maybe it's betrayal or gossip or someone just missed you
that can cause us to put up walls.
Speaker 1 (26:02):
It's natural.
Speaker 2 (26:02):
I think it's a part of survival and self preservation
in some ways, and so that might be another reason, yes.
Speaker 3 (26:09):
And then I think you know this next piece, we've
touched on it slightly, but I want to take it
in a different direction of cultural conditioning. Right. So we've
talked about it from this lens of how we've been
socialized and conditioned as black folks for our overall survival,
(26:30):
particularly maintaining our families and things like that. But I
also think it's important for us to note that the
cultural conditioning, as we mentioned at the top of the show,
of being the strong black woman, right, and that we
were socialized to believe that being strong meant that we
(26:58):
were stoic, that being strong meant almost yes, almost like
a statue, that we are impenetrable, that you don't get
emotion out of us. That for our survival, for the
(27:21):
survival of all of those around us, we have to
keep it together. And keeping it together and being strong
meant there's no room for emotion, there's no room for
us to be our full selves. And so then that
(27:44):
robs us of that opportunity to truly be vulnerable. But
if we've been conditioned that this is what it means
to this is what being a black woman looks like,
then we keep it going.
Speaker 1 (28:00):
That is such a good point.
Speaker 2 (28:00):
I know we have a lot of stuff going on
in the world right now, and at the same time,
I think there are so many blessings to being alive
at this time with the privileges that we do have,
and also with these conversations that are being hady, because
when you talk about cultural conditioning, it makes me think
about the fact that back then, a lot of times,
like when many of us grew up, we the people
(28:21):
who were raising us, they didn't even have the bandwidth
or capacity to hold space for the emotions that we
had a lot of times. Right, so even if we
were having the conversations, it's like maybe they weren't saying
keep it together, big girls, don't cry, don't cry, but
they didn't even know what to do with it. And
it was just honestly like not no slight to them.
It just wasn't on their shelf. They literally did not
(28:42):
have the capacity, like what are you going to do?
I don't know what to do with it. A lot
of people, and I think a lot of people are
like that too. When you see someone crying, you some
people don't know how to handle it. You're like, oh shit,
just make it stop. Like actually uncomfortable, right, Okay, So
we're gonna talk about number five and then down we
had the clock. I'm like, this my be a part
to y'all, so we we won't see all. We want
(29:02):
to see what we can do, see how far we go.
But we got a lot more content to cover ours.
Number five here is control O child control. Vulnerability often
means surrendering the mask of control. I can relate to
this one. And so when you think about being vulnerable, right,
it can be risky at times because it means letting
(29:22):
go of the image we create or the image that
we curate. Right, And we talked about seeing black women
cry and public. I mean, crying is one of the
most just authentic releases that you can have. And when
you are really crying, there's not much curation that you
(29:43):
can do there.
Speaker 1 (29:44):
It just comes out, comes out, and Lord have mercy,
let it be a don't let it be an ugly cry.
And you're just like, this is it.
Speaker 2 (29:50):
I mean, it feels good after and sometimes in the
moment it feels good, but it's just you don't have
control over that. It's like your body is letting go
of what needs to be released. And I think sometimes
it feels safer to manage how people see us than
to show the messy truth, right, I mean, there have
been so many times I can I'm sure you can
think of this too, lady where you started crying. You're like,
(30:10):
I'm sorry, we get it together, let me stop wipe
your tears, and you try to cover it up and
wipe it away. I do want to say another thing
down before we dive in deep, and I'm sure you
have something to add. I love the fact that we
are grounding this conversation and safety as well, Like we
talked about how being vulnerable as a black woman is nuanced,
and so there is a level of safety that we
need to consider because all spaces are not safe for
(30:32):
us and we should not be vulnerable in all spaces
because of that. And so I love that word grounding
it yes, and that.
Speaker 3 (30:39):
Yes, And you know, as you were saying that, it
made me think about times when when I have and
I think vulnerability right now, what comes up for me
is like crying, but I think that there are other
emotions that are part of that vulnerability. Rightsolutely that for me,
(31:00):
I think about those spaces and places where I did
not feel comfortable being my authentic self.
Speaker 1 (31:12):
Right just period like being period.
Speaker 3 (31:15):
Yeah, And a lot of that goes back to who
are the people around me?
Speaker 1 (31:25):
Yeah?
Speaker 3 (31:26):
And like what role are they serving in my life?
Speaker 1 (31:29):
Mm?
Speaker 5 (31:29):
Hm.
Speaker 3 (31:31):
So I think about oftentimes in a profession, in professional settings,
there are, there have been, there still are people that
I interact with that you know, this is not you
are not gonna get my full self. You are not
(31:53):
gonna get all of me, Yeah, because I don't trust you.
Speaker 1 (31:58):
What comes what makes you trust them?
Speaker 2 (32:00):
Like, is there anything in particular that's happening in the
environment where you're like, I can't I can't show all
of me or bring all of me.
Speaker 3 (32:08):
So I think that there early in my career there
were certain spaces that were evaluative spaces.
Speaker 1 (32:16):
Oh okay, right, yeah.
Speaker 3 (32:19):
So now I think about for myself currently, when you
work for other people, you are constantly in when you
have an employer, a boss, you are constantly in any
valuative space, right, But I think back to early phases
in my career where I did not trust who was
(32:44):
doing the evaluating and whether or not the evaluative criteria
was accurate to me, Like were they truly evaluating me
based on who I was and what my tasks were?
Speaker 1 (33:06):
Yeah?
Speaker 3 (33:07):
Right, So with I being held to standards that were
impossible to meet or not actually reflective of the work
that I was doing. Yes, okay, Right, and so when
I and when I think about other women in black
women in these evaluative spaces, yeah, oftentimes these evaluative spaces
(33:33):
are used.
Speaker 1 (33:34):
Against us, yeah, or used.
Speaker 3 (33:38):
Not used in ways that will benefit us. Right. And
so there is a level of protection that we have
to enter those spaces with absolutely that there is a
level of code switching that is going to happen. Yes,
(33:59):
because for some of us, depending on where we're at,
a lot of a statistic the statistics show that a
lot of people are one paycheck away from being houseless
or not being able to make any ends meet, right, Yeah.
(34:20):
And so when your livelihood is dependent upon your professional
performance and what are those performance standards that you're being
measured against, if those things are not reflective of who
you truly are, then you cannot be vulnerable. And to
ask black women to be vulnerable in a workspace or
(34:46):
any space that is not set up with their best
interests at hearts, guess, makes absolutely no fucking sense to me.
Speaker 2 (34:59):
Dumb you over listen, give me the spatula because you over.
Speaker 1 (35:03):
There cooking, And that was a whole word. We need
to listen.
Speaker 2 (35:07):
That was so that is so true down because you know,
it's so funny when you said that, because I wrote
down colde switching because when you were sharing that, what
it made me think about is how a lot of
these tech companies, right, I've been working in Silicon Valley
for the past ten years, and a lot of these companies,
I don't know if it's just a tech thing or
Silicon Valley thing, but a lot of the companies, when
you get there, they say, bring your full self to work.
(35:27):
And that never set well with me because I'm like,
I'm not bringing my black ass full self to the job.
Speaker 1 (35:31):
No I'm not.
Speaker 2 (35:32):
And I used to I've heard people share their perspectives
about colde switching and saying how we need to just
be our authentic self and no colde switching, and I'm like,
that doesn't resonate with me. And I remember hearing this
black man. He said it so beautifully and I hope
I don't butcher it. But he said something around along
the lines of they don't have the luxury and don't
provide the protection for me to bring my full self
(35:54):
to work, so I will be code switching. I'm not
aving the conversations that I have with you, that I
have with my friends. I'm not bringing you know, how
you get around your people and you can get accent
kind of comes out, Like I know when I go
to Philly, people will be like, girl, did you just
like did you change the way?
Speaker 1 (36:07):
Like what just happened to your voice?
Speaker 2 (36:09):
Because I'll put on as Sarah James Roberts said when
she was at our show, I'll put on the AT
and T voice when I'm at work because that's what
I do.
Speaker 1 (36:16):
I'm doing what I need to do to you know,
get get the stuff done. And then when I want my.
Speaker 2 (36:20):
People, I notice that within myself, my energy just shifts.
My little you know, my little swag come out, the
little Philly jown come out, and you know, you do
your thing. And so I feel like it is important
for us to realize that nom that when we are
in spaces like you said, we're our best interest is
not at heart. No, you don't have to be your
full self in that space. If you feel safe to
do that, that's your prerogative, but you don't have to
(36:42):
come and do that. And if you need a code
switch to you can get that check and do what
you gotta do and build your dream, you know, because
many of us are building the dream on the side.
Speaker 3 (36:49):
You do.
Speaker 1 (36:49):
That's exactly now.
Speaker 2 (36:53):
No, this will be a really great time speaking of
control and why people resist vulnerability. I think this will
be a great time to read this article that we discussed,
this little snippet that this.
Speaker 1 (37:04):
Blew my mind. Lady, get ready for this.
Speaker 2 (37:05):
Okay, so we're back in the Psychology Today article called
Revealing its Healing the Power of Vulnerability. I believe it's
by Kaja Parina. I hope I'm saying her name correctly.
So this is what it said. Okay, you're ready for this, lady,
come in close. I read a story in The Atlantic
magazine recently written by a waiter and a midtown Manhattan
restaurant who reported that men choking in restaurants will sometimes,
(37:28):
out of fear of embarrassment, phide in the bathroom where
they'll die, where they'll die because they can't get help.
I mentioned this to an audience in Washington, DC shortly
after reading the story, and a fellow raised his hand
and said he'd once done exactly that, and the only
(37:50):
reason he was still around to tell the tale was
that someone happened to follow him into the bathroom and
administer the Heimlich maneuver, and other men raise their hands
and basically said that this was the truth for them.
That is, it's mind blowing, but I get it at
the same time because I think about what vulnerability means
to men in particular. But then there's a whole other
(38:11):
level when you think about black men. I think we
all have our own relationships and experiences with vulnerability. I mean,
when you think about black men in America and then
being vulnerable, I mean that's like a black man crying.
I think it's more acceptable now, But I mean when
I was raised, well many of us were raised, right,
that was that was pretty foreign.
Speaker 1 (38:31):
It was. Yeah, there's a lot to unpack that.
Speaker 3 (38:34):
There, there is a lot to unpact there. It's so
fascinating that now I find myself, yeah, having the opposite
reaction of if I'm in a space where I would expect, yeah,
some level of emotion or some let me be let
me be specific, because Okay, when I'm in a space
(38:57):
where I would expect want to cry, right, and I'm
not talking about therap because that's a whole different experience,
And I don't see the man crying. Yeah, I have
to actively remind myself that, particularly for older men, that
(39:20):
they have been socialized to not cry, right, And I
like literally have to tell myself that so that then
it might, depending on the context, depending on the situation,
it may push me to then say something mm hmm
so that they may feel so to make them to
(39:43):
hopefully create a space where they may feel more comfortable
to cry and give that if they've been holding it in.
Speaker 1 (39:53):
Okay, that is that's good.
Speaker 2 (39:55):
It's great to hear you say that as a therapist,
because some don't have this, specially especially certain Yeah, some
don't have that emotional intelligence and the history and the
understanding to do that. But from a therapist perspective, now,
what would you say are some of the.
Speaker 1 (40:15):
I guess I'm want to say that.
Speaker 2 (40:16):
The powerful transformations that you've witnessed with someone being vulnerable.
Speaker 3 (40:22):
So I think what most readily comes to comes to
mind are the college students that I work with. Yeah,
particularly some of the black women, right, okay, and they
come into therapy and I've seen the gamut. I've seen
(40:46):
some that in the majority me so the majority. What
will happen is that first time that they cry in session,
there's an apology, the oh, I'm sorry, I didn't I
didn't mean to, and and so it's me then saying,
(41:08):
you know, like having to actively say like, no, this
is your space, this is this is the space where
you can open up and you can cry and you
can experience whatever range of emotions, right because I've also
seen it when they get angry, that they come in
(41:31):
and they may be enraged about something, but then they
find themselves trying to contain it. And then I have
to say it's okay to be angry and I can
and letting them know that raising your voice, getting you know,
(41:52):
doing all the things. I'm I'm okay with it right now.
I do. I do also find myself being mindful of
particularly when I'm in a shared setting of and when
I say, when I'm in like a clinic or a center,
right when there's other offices. Yet I do find myself
(42:14):
being mindful of how loud they may emote. Yeah, but
I'm also very clear with them that me being mindful
of them emoting is about protecting their privacy. Yes, but
it's not about me being afraid. Because we have also
(42:36):
because we've also been socialized that when we express, when
we have the big emotions, yes, that people become afraid
of us.
Speaker 1 (42:45):
Yes.
Speaker 3 (42:47):
And so part of my job in the therapy set
that I believe is my job in the therapy space
is to make it okay to have those big emotions,
and we remind people that it's not it's not about
the emotion itself, that it is okay to have the emotion.
(43:07):
The problem comes in with what you do after that
and with that emotion, right like what your behaviors or actions,
those are the things that get you into trouble not
experienced not having the emotion itself.
Speaker 2 (43:26):
Oh my goodness, Doma, I love that so much because
I know I want to ask another question and share
two things. I know that during my process of healing
from a lot of childhood trauma, I never had the
space to be angry, Like I didn't have the space
to be like, fuck this shit, I have rage, I
want to punch some shit, I want to fuck some shitup.
I didn't have space to do that. And I remember
being working with a therapist and then letting me know,
(43:47):
like you are, you have every right to be upset,
and like letting me know like you should be angry
about these things that was terrible that happened. I was like, okay,
like it was, I feel emotional now, like it was
a relief of like, wow, I.
Speaker 1 (43:57):
Have permission to do that.
Speaker 2 (43:59):
So with that said, we use crying as an example
in a lot of instances, but of course we know
that that's not the only emotion that can show up
when you're being vulnerable. So we talked about anger a bit.
What are some of the other emotions that you see
come up when someone is leaning into their vulnerability in
life or in a therapy session?
Speaker 3 (44:17):
Joy?
Speaker 1 (44:18):
Joy? Oh, talk about joy? Why is joy? Talk about it?
Speaker 3 (44:23):
So I think, you know, I want to talk. So
a lot of thoughts came up with the thought of joy, right,
joy and pleasure and that. So there's two different things
that come up for me, one around joy and pleasure
(44:44):
when it comes to sex. That as as women, we
are socialized to not like necessarily that we can't necessarily
enjoy sex. And sex isn't more of us, right, okay,
and not for us? Sex is for everybody anybody, right,
(45:09):
And there are ways in which we get to express
that and experience it. And you know, I'm very clear
that it needs to be consue. Whatever you're doing needs
to be consensual. Yes, And so the idea that a
woman can one actually experience an orgasm, okay, and then
(45:32):
to enjoy that orgasm like.
Speaker 2 (45:34):
Expressive yes, yes.
Speaker 3 (45:39):
The release literally that a woman can experience when they
have an orgasm.
Speaker 4 (45:52):
Right like.
Speaker 3 (45:55):
That. That is a level of vulnerability that we don't
often acknowledge.
Speaker 2 (46:00):
Yes, speak, Oh my gosh, Okay, now we may have
to do an episode about this because when you talk
about that dom it has me thinking about myself and
also friends, where many of us when we first started
having sex, we're not having orgasms?
Speaker 1 (46:12):
One because it was like, oh I was supposed to
be having that thing. I didn't know. I didn't realize it.
Speaker 2 (46:17):
But then two, being comfortable enough, safe enough and tune
with your body enough to let go fully, comfortable enough
with your partner to let go fully and to let
go of that control and to be vulnerable in that
way as well.
Speaker 3 (46:32):
Yes, yes, that is. It's a powerful experience. It is
a freeing. It is a liberating experience.
Speaker 1 (46:44):
And you are deserving of it. We are all deserving
of that.
Speaker 3 (46:47):
Yeah, yes, yes, yes, yes we are. And so so
there's that piece and then there's the joy in other contexts,
right of I think about black women being out and about, right,
and how when we are having a time, okay, when
(47:12):
we are when we are with our girlfriends and having
a time, Yeah, the level of laughter and tackling and
just the overall merriment and enjoyment yes, that comes from
those moments. Yeah, to me is a signal of vulnerability, right,
(47:38):
That you are with people that you feel so comfortable with,
that you feel free enough with to let that joy out. Yeah,
That you're not feeling like you have to you have
(48:01):
to contain it, that you have to give that cute
little giggle. Yeah, And there is room for the cute giggle.
I'm here for you for sure, But you feel comfortable
and free enough that that big boisterous laugh yeah naturally escapes.
Speaker 2 (48:23):
That just sounds so amazing, don As you say that.
It just makes me think about the fact that we
all deserve to be around people and community with and
partnered with right people where we feel people that make
us feel safe, where we can be ourselves, where we
can be vulnerable. And I think that if you know,
if we find ourselves in situations where that's not the case, right,
(48:46):
whether it's a friendship, a relationship, a job, shit shit.
Speaker 1 (48:50):
Or whatever it might be.
Speaker 2 (48:51):
Yes, we may have able to change it immediately, but
it should give us a We should be able to
pause and be like, huh okay, let me like is
this serving me right? Like is there a better community,
a better space, a better opportunity for me? Because the
life that we have is precious? Life is precious.
Speaker 1 (49:10):
I mean yes, it is.
Speaker 2 (49:11):
Yes, it's that literally that life is precious and we
deserve to have pleasure, joy, vulnerability in a safe environment.
And lady, we did not even get into the rest
of the content that we were going to cover. So
what we're going to do is, I don't know, dom
if we want to do a recap, we could figure
it out, but we are going to cover the rest
of this content in a part two episode because we
(49:33):
kind of, yeah, we shifted it up a little bit.
We went with the spirit. We let spirit lead today.
Speaker 3 (49:38):
Yes we did, and so yes, in ladies, stay tuned
for part two where we will continue this conversation and
we'll talk about we'll talk more about what how to
safely practice vulnerability right, Like what are the steps? Because
I think that's the piece that like that's the next
phase right once you you have identified what vulnerability looks
(50:04):
like for you, is how do we practice it? Like
put it into practice? And so that's what we will
talk about in part two. All right, So, but before
we wrap up, I do want to take a moment
(50:24):
to give a special shout out because I told her
that I would to Nay and you can find her
on social media at Nay so am ia. So it's
Nae dot s O dot M. I a shout out.
Speaker 4 (50:39):
To u, Nay.
Speaker 3 (50:40):
I was at a brunch cruise a couple of weeks
ago with a friend and Nay approached me and said
that she has been listening to the podcast, and so
I told her I would give her a shout out.
So shout out to you, Nay. Thank you for listening.
Speaker 1 (50:55):
Dot out to you, Nay. I love that so much.
Job a lady.
Speaker 2 (50:58):
If you want to catch the after and also if
you want to support the podcast, you can head on
over to herspace podcast dot com. You can click anywhere
you see Patreon and subscribe to our Patreon so you
can see us on video as we record these episodes
and also to catch us on the after show. Also
make sure you hit us up on Instagram at Herspace podcast,
you can check out our content, send us some dms,
let us know what topics you want us to cover,
(51:20):
what events you want us to host like we our
ears are open. Okay, we're here and we'll catch you
in the after show.
Speaker 5 (51:25):
Lady, it's doctor dom here from the Cultivating her Space podcast.
Are you currently a resident of the state of California
and contemplating starting your therapy journey? Well, if so, please
reach out to me at doctor Dominique Brusard dot com.
That's d R D O M I N I q
(51:48):
U E b R O U ss ar D dot
com to schedule a free fifteen minute consultation.
Speaker 3 (51:58):
I look forward to hearing from you. Thanks for tuning
into Cultivating her Space. Remember that while this podcast is
all about healing, empowerment, and resilience, it's not a substitute
for therapy. If you or someone you know need support,
check out resources like Therapy for Black Girls or Psychology Today.
(52:21):
If you love today's episode, do us a favor and
share it with a friend who needs some inspiration, or
leave us a quick five star review. Your support means
the world to us and helps keep this space Thriving, and.
Speaker 1 (52:36):
Before we meet again, repeat after me.
Speaker 2 (52:39):
I honor my journey by balancing effort and rest to
achieve my goals. Cheap Thriving Lady, and tune in next
Friday for more inspiration from cultivating her space. In the meantime,
be sure to connect with us on Instagram at her
Space Podcast
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