Curry Café: Third Act – Over 60 and Fighting for the Future

In this episode of Curry Café, hosts Ray Gary and Rick McNamer and KCIW’s Michael Gorse talk with Kathleen Dickson about her work with Third Act, a national organization for people over 60 committed to climate action and democracy. Kathleen discusses Third Act Faith, a group that empowers older adults to address climate change through […]

Episode Transcript

(00:04):
Well, hello again, KCIW
listeners, and welcome to Curry Cafe.
I'm producer and volunteer Rick McNamer.
Every Sunday from three to 4PM,
your host, Ray Gary, puts together a panel
of guests to discuss topics of interest in
our community.
Listeners can participate by texting questions or comments
to

(00:24):
(541)
661-4098.
Again, that's (541)
661-4098.
Now here's Ray to tell us about today's
show.
Well, as always, we have scoured the community
to find the
best and brightest on our particular subject,

(00:45):
but
today is a little different. She sent us
an email. So
we'll go around the table and have, well,
we also have
a a Mike here today. I'm not sure
what his it looks like he's having trouble
staying awake.
I have I have I have paper clips
over here that I can throw them at
you.
I am dying to hear what Kathleen

(01:14):
mean, I mean, I We are. Of interest.
Yeah. I think, we're going through the sixth
major extinction as we get home. Let's
fix things.
I amen.
Amen, brother. And how I got to be
first, I don't know, Kathleen. That's just wrong.
Because we go around the table clockwise as
always. So It's fine.

(01:36):
Well, you're on. I'm on. Okay. Well, hey,
everyone. I'm Kathleen Dixon, and y'all know me
for a number of reasons.
But a lot of you might not know
that I'm also,
part of a national group called Third Act.
It was founded by Bill McKibben,
in 2021,
I believe. I got involved in 2023.

(01:56):
Third Act
is made up of people who care about
the climate and democracy,
and they're over 60 years of age. Hence,
the name third act. We're in the third
act of our lives. So
the way we look at it, we may
not have the energy to be out protesting
every day. We may not have,
a lot of that that,

(02:17):
that spunk, but we've got time. We've got
money a lot of the times, and we
can support the young people in their fight
to,
deal deal with the issue of climate change
and democracy.
So I'm part of one of the working
groups.
Let me back up. Third Act is a
national organization.

(02:37):
Then, there are working groups made up of
people in different states. So third act Oregon,
third act California, third act New York, etcetera,
etcetera.
Then there are also working groups that are,
based on,
affinities or affiliations.
So there's third act lawyers, third act creatives,
and I am a co facilitator

(02:57):
with third act faith
because, the people in my working group
come at the whole issue of climate change
from a faith based perspective.
So what we do is we try to
support other third actors in their efforts to
make people pay attention about climate change. By
people, I mean, big banks, big businesses, and
big government.

(03:18):
And we support them from a faith perspective.
We
design,
online services that will help them bolster their
courage for an action that they're gonna be
doing the next day, or we will offer
ways to still have hope when it seems
hopeless.
So that's kinda where I'm at on the
third act stage.

(03:39):
As far as climate change is concerned,
I agree with Mike that we are most
likely in our sixth extinction period.
We are running out of time.
There are some indications
that tipping points have passed.
I am no expert when it comes to
climate change.

(03:59):
I know the little bit I know.
We're having the I don't have them recorded.
Getting somebody else in here. No. That's me.
Kathleen
repeating.
But we'll we'll work through it. Go ahead,
Kathleen. So anyway,
I I know I know what I know
based on what I read and what I
hear from people that are more expert than

(04:20):
I.
So,
I care about this planet and I want
to,
see it
thrive.
As a person of faith, I believe that
it is my responsibility
to take care of the planet, to take
care of creation.
And, so it's easy
from my faith perspective to,

(04:42):
be on the side of
creation and the planet and caring for our
plants and our animals and our people in
a way that doesn't,
desecrate things and turn us into a big
ball of heat in ten, twenty years.
Yeah. And and we all are cons we
all should be concerned about the the planet.
I wanna ask real quick, Kathleen, about the

(05:03):
research I did, and I wasn't aware of
Third Act until we talked about it. I
think it was a month ago.
The age,
Bill McKibben again.
The way I read it, it was like
he he said people in their six sixties,
but it goes 60 and beyond. Sure. Okay.
I kinda thought so. Yeah. Bill McKibben's the
founder of Third Act, and, you know, he's

(05:25):
been writing about the climate and about climate
change for decades.
I'd I have to admit, I've never read
his first book, but I read his more
recent book.
Oh, gosh. I know I was gonna forget
the title of it. Station Wagons.
It's kind of a biography of of his
life growing up in the seventies, which resonates

(05:45):
to me because I grew up in the
seventies. Okay. He was on PBS's,
Brief But Spectacular take back in 2023,
and that's what caught my eye. And I
read the book, and I got to know
about Third Act. And I said, I gotta
get involved because I have to do something.
I'm at that point in my life where
I I can no longer just sit back
and let other people do something.

(06:06):
If I'm gonna leave any kind of legacy,
quote unquote,
then I need to do what I can
do. And what I can do
is, help advocate for, the climate through groups
like Third Act. And Third Act, like, you
said you're with Third Act Oregon or Third
Act Faith. Faith. You know? Well, I'm actually
with both of them, but I'm I'm a
facilitator with Third Act. Okay. And they work

(06:28):
together, obviously. Yeah. Mhmm.
Do all 50 states have a Third Act?
I'm not sure if all states do. You
could check if you went to the website,
thirdact.org,
there's a page,
working groups, and you can see geographically where
the groups are. Some states have more than
one.
California, I think, has a Northern California and

(06:48):
a Southern California.
But the goal is at odds.
Yeah. It's true. Yeah. The goal is for
every state to have a working group. Well,
good. Yeah. And that's the working the geographic
working groups is where the
action is generally done. Like, if there's gonna
be a protest,
at a bank or if there's gonna be
a rally,

(07:09):
at the, cap at the capitol, then it's
the geographic working groups that set those up.
The affinity group that I'm with, Third Act
Faith, we work
nationwide. So we're,
we're basically a Zoom based group
Okay. Working group. And so what we do
is we try to support the geographic groups
and the national group
with, like I say, things like, right now,

(07:31):
we've got a couple of monthly
webinars that we do that are about, how
to how to maintain hope in a hopeless
time of our lives,
you know, meditation and and and,
positive reinforcement
and,
grief talk, things like that. Because people
in this fight, it's pretty discouraging

(07:53):
at times, you know, especially There's been a
lot of discouraging news. Oh, god. Yeah. I
mean, the the climate in this country,
the political climate in this country is such
that it's very discouraging to It I I
would assume right now it's kind of an
uphill battle. It is. Yeah. But we gotta
we we can't give up. Exactly.
Because
If if we give up, then they win.

(08:14):
Yes. Right. It's not an uphill battle, but
I think, every day or every couple of
days, the hill gets steeper
when, they're really looking
forward. When we just had
the the Clean Air Act Yeah. Done away
with, things like that constantly and educational things.
Well, Kathleen, you mentioned PBS,

(08:35):
and,
they're in danger now. And Yeah. Yeah.
So are we, I think. Well, yes. Yeah.
Not in the same way, but Right.
I I, I I envision that there are,
groups all the time contacting Mhmm.
Their conservative people about,
some of the community radios that people feel

(08:57):
are very
Local.
Yeah. Liberal. And Yeah. But they're we don't
we don't get any federal funding, but Right.
We are licensed by the federal government. Mhmm.
Well, I'm a I'm a member of the
library board here in town, and so we
catch plenty of flack from the far right
MAGA folk
who believe that our library

(09:18):
is,
condoning
books that they don't approve of. That was
an ugly fight, and I'm glad that the
recent I had how recent it was, but
there was fear that that recent,
election, if you will, was were gonna was
going to put some pretty,
nutty people in on the board. Yeah.
Far as libraries go, you can understand

(09:39):
at least the idea of protecting their children
from from books. But
not too long ago, the Air Force Academy
Library took over 200 books.
I I don't know if if they think
they're gonna That they think they're gonna be
influencing these,
Right. Yeah. Soon to be Air Force officers
or what. But

(10:00):
they didn't leave they didn't take my comp
out. So Of course not. Good heavens.
So
on the faith groups, I'm guessing I'm gonna
assume here that every state that has the
third act,
possibly has a third act faith
also? No. Because third act faith is works
on a nationwide basis.

(10:21):
So Oh. It
it's it's hard to describe. Third act is
a national umbrella organization. K. But because
we we need to take this fight to
the state level,
they've always also developed a second tier of
geographic groups, which is where all the different
states come in. Mhmm. But there are some

(10:41):
things that can be approached from a nationwide,
on a nationwide level. And that's where, for
instance, third act lawyers.
The guys the the people in third act
lawyers, what they're doing is they're assisting with,
legal,
questions and and legal approaches
to the fight for climate change. If a

(11:02):
group wants to
do a particular kind of protest and they're
not sure if they're on, proper legal footing,
then third act legal would step in and
say, you know, yes. You are. Here's what
you need to do to protect yourself. With
third act faith, which is and there's about
there's only about eight affinity groups. Creatives, legal,
faith, educators.

(11:22):
Wow. Maybe a couple more. I can't remember.
A few little splinter groups, I would call
them then. Sorta. We're we're we're still part
of third act. Act. We're umbrellaed by Third
Act. But we approach the fight,
for climate
from a different perspective. The educators, their job
is to create materials that will help the
geographic groups educate the public at large.

(11:44):
The, third act faith group, we assist by
creating,
mostly webinars and Zoom meetings and the like
where people who
well, people who are third actors who are
all also,
Christian or Jewish or Muslim or whatever who
have a faith,
feel as though they can use

(12:04):
they can take their faith
and, use it in this fight. Is that
does that make sense? Yeah. So as a
Christian,
you know, the my Bible tells me that,
when God created the Earth, he,
gave humanity
and the the word is not dominion. I
don't care what anybody on the right says.
There's always God. It is not dominion. If

(12:25):
you look back to the original Greek, the
word does not mean dominion. Mainly, it generally
means,
care for
or something along those lines. And so that's
where where Christians who are part of third
act come at it from. We believe that
we're
charged with taking care
of creation.
And so climate change is not taking care

(12:47):
of creation. And and doesn't that make so
much more sense? Sure. Sure. But but from
a from third act's perspective,
we act in a way that assists anybody
who needs that kind of spiritual basis or
or or,
hope filled,
type of
of,
work.

(13:08):
It's it's it's hard to describe.
But yeah. So
go ahead. Well, no. I have and before
I go to remember the listeners, you can
comment or have questions here. (541)
661-4098.
How about, I'm assuming there are hopefully a
lot of some tribal communities,

(13:29):
involved?
There you know, my guess is there are
some groups that are, tribal communities that are
involved with third act. I don't know offhand,
which ones might be.
But, there are a number of,
groups in the country who are fighting,
to mitigate the effects of climate change. Green
faith and, interfaith power and light

(13:51):
and,
Greenpeace and
Sierra Club and
Audubon, and they're all Nature Conservancy.
They're all doing their bits. You bet. To
try and and,
awake try to wake the people up about
what's really happening. And a lot of folks
get it. It's it's not it's really hard
to miss it these days because of all

(14:13):
the,
extreme weather events we've been having. That's a
sign of climate change in my opinion. I
I believe I'm not a scientist. I'm not
an expert, please. A lot of scientists here.
This is my opinion. Yeah. So I think
this is, what you're talking about is pretty
much scientific. Most of it seems to be
scientific fact. Yeah.
Yeah. And this buoys my spirits a little

(14:35):
bit because as a secularist not affiliated with
any religion,
I always kinda felt what, of course, this
is I'm dealing now talking about mostly Christian
evangelicals
Sure. Who, for some reason, seem to be
counter
to what we're you're talking about and what
we're concerned about, and I've never understood that.
You know, and and as a progressive Christian,

(14:57):
or I like to call myself a follower
of Christ now because the word Christian has
been so,
Demonized?
Yeah. Thank you. Yeah. Weaponized. What I'm sorry.
Rise and weaponized. Both. But demonized as well.
Well You know, for folks who are not,
religious. And and I I totally get a
a person who, turns their back on any

(15:18):
kind of organized religion. I was,
anti organized religion for a good twenty, thirty
years of my life because I just saw
nothing but hypocrisy. Yeah. And I still see,
in a lot of cases, nothing but hypocrisy.
Yeah. A lot of yeah. It's everywhere. But
yeah. Well, I'm glad you pointed that out
because I was probably one
on that side for quite a while being,

(15:40):
very anti religious. Sure. But it like I
said, it bleeds my spirits to hear, hey.
There's groups out there that
have faith, that are have concern about progressive
issues, if you will. And there's another
demonized word, progressive, that's Sure. Liberal, whatever. We
can go on and on. Sure.
You know, it's it's funny because at the

(16:01):
core of it, and we're starting to see
this more, I think, in in our town
even, at the core, the the more
stuff gets
destroyed,
defunded,
removed, fired, whatever. The the more that kind
of thing happens,
the more people are starting to say, wait
a minute. This is not what I voted

(16:22):
for. This is not what I thought was
gonna happen. This is not what I want.
And,
my
desire these days is to work really hard
not to demonize
people that thought differently than me or still
think differently than me, but to remind everybody

(16:42):
of our connections, of our common ground, of
what it is that we,
we can agree on. Because in Brookings alone
I mean, I I remember,
was it, like, eight years ago or so
when the nickel mine was the the company
out of Canada was trying to do a
nickel mine up the,
Smith River watershed, I believe it was. Oh.
And,

(17:02):
they had some public meetings here in town
at the high school, and that gym was
filled
with people of all shapes and sizes, all
walks of life against the idea because it
would destroy our clean water. I mean, that
was what it boiled down to clean water.
And people can get on the same side
of a lot of issues if we just

(17:23):
stop letting,
those in power try to divide us, and
we start remembering that there's a lot more
that connects us than than divides us. And,
when it comes to religion,
there are those on the far right who
are using trying to use religion to divide
us.
You're pitting Muslims against Jews, against Christians, against
Buddhists, against secularists, against everybody.

(17:44):
They're trying to to make out, like, there's
only one way of being, and it's a
far right patriarchal,
so called Christian way of being.
Bull,
fill in the blank. Yeah. Bullcrap on that.
Yes. Yes. Because there's another word I'd rather
use, but I've totally can't use those kinds
of words on the right hand

(18:04):
side. All aware of what you're talking about.
Yeah. FCC thugs right at the right at
the door. So, you probably saw those guys
dressed in black out there as you came
in.
Well, and again,
you don't have to delineate everyone, but it's
good to hear you've mentioned Muslim, you've mentioned
Hindus,
Christian, progressive Christians, if you will.

(18:26):
And all of those are a part
of the,
third act faith.
Sure. Yeah. We we have in fact, our
our, co facilitating our our coordinating committee,
of which I'm a part,
is made up of
the the majority of us are Christian, but
there are also,
Jewish, Muslim,

(18:47):
Sikh, Buddhist,
Wiccan,
Wakers.
That was my wife's preference, I think, is
quick and hefty. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Because because
we're not
third third act itself is all about,
you know, mitigating the effects of climate change,
doing everything we possibly can to stop

(19:08):
the carbon from rising. You know, I mean,
the carbon levels at what? Four twenty point
something right now? That wasn't that long ago,
it was at three fifty because Bill McKibben
founded 350.org
back in the day. I think that was
in the nineties or
eighties. Okay. Don't quote me. But, And again,
he is the founder of Third Act. Third
Act. Okay. And it wasn't that long ago

(19:28):
that the that the target number was 350
parts per million carbon. It's up to four
twenty something now. And it is growing exponentially.
So
it's like that's why I'm saying, you know,
some of these tipping points that they're worried
about, the,
Atlantic Oscillating Current, I believe it's called. They're
really worried that it's gonna break down. And
if it does, then that destroys the the

(19:50):
flow of of cold air from the north
of in the Atlantic Ocean down to the
South, and then it it oscillates back up
and it you know, that's what drives food.
That's what drives the fish. I mean, people
anyone who's really
and it's hard to pay attention to all
of this anyone who's really just focused on,
you know, what's going on in their life
and in their community and they're raising kids

(20:11):
and they're working and they're, you know, trying
to make a way. Just live a life.
Yeah. Yeah. You don't know all of this
other stuff that's that's happening because scientists are
being silenced.
And it's like,
you know, so third act's job
is to try and
keep pounding that
that point forward, to keep

(20:32):
emphasizing that we are all
on this planet together, and we all sink
or swim. Nobody gets away
with you know, if the climate gets worse,
nobody gets to move to Mars despite what
a certain somebody wants to do. I don't
think that's possible before this planet dies
if we don't do something now. And by
something, I mean, every single little thing we

(20:53):
can do. And I don't care if if
they tell you,
you know, oh, building electric cars, that that
also messes up the climate because you need
all these minerals. Well, yeah, okay. But read
Bill McKibben's,
substack, and he points out that the
the effort to mine
the minerals that are needed for electric cars,
for instance, for the batteries for electric cars.

(21:15):
Yeah.
Yeah. There is some climate damage that will
happen in the mining, but it's basically once
you get it all mined, you just recycle
it over and over. And it's amazing how
much you can recycle.
It's a lot less
damage compared to what carbon is doing to
this world. And not only that, to to
mine or to

(21:35):
drill for oil or get coal, that's a
great deal of of damage. You know, our
our president complains about windmills. Right? Well, wind
turbines.
Have you has he ever been to Wyoming
and seen
town after town after town with oil rigs
dotting the landscape? I lived there. I grew
up in Wyoming. Oh, wow. And we would
go to basketball games in, some of these
towns, and the town stunk of oil.

(21:57):
It literally this was in the seventies. It
stunk. And there were oil rigs everywhere. And
there still are
coal mines that are big, gaping holes
in the landscape of Wyoming. I mean, I
live 60 miles away from Gillette, which is
where the biggest ones are.
It's just
I'm I'm always amazed when they talk about
the the windmills,

(22:18):
destroying the view. Yeah. From my perspective, when
I go through a wind farm, that
gladdens my heart, so to speak. You know,
there's an coming down from California, going through
the hills with this
The Columbia Gorge is a great example of
the And he's talking about
beautiful valleys being screwed up with windmills. Well,
in the In a country that has tons

(22:40):
of wind power. Yeah. His his speeches in
Scotland.
Yeah. And and that that power, it sorry
to jump in. But that power comes
in my perspective, comes from our creator, God,
the higher power, the, you know, Allah. I
don't care what you call Yahweh. I don't
care what you call him, the great spirit.
Call it what you will.
That comes from nature.

(23:01):
That's free stuff. And if the why we're
not harnessing that now and, I mean, doing
everything possible to harness wind and sun and
water is beyond me. It it makes no
sense. No. And you had a very good
point talking about,
like, the batteries and, yes, there's some damage.
Mhmm.
We all hope that the scientists and the
smart people figure all this stuff out of

(23:22):
there because and like, Ray, you were saying,
so what? We just keep the old drill,
baby, drill. You wanna keep doing that, really?
Going for coal and that stuff that just
is killing us, I think real quick on
the windmills,
the wind turbines,
and and we've talked about this on the
show a couple times. Yeah. The big blades
can have some problems, but now they're I've

(23:44):
seen some that these wind,
turbines have no blades. Mhmm. I've seen those
too. Okay. And there there again, somebody tweaked
that a little bit. Okay. This is a
problem that we can make this work. Mhmm.
So They say that solar panels now,
they're they're like, I don't know, 50 times
better than the ones just fifty years ago.
Oh, I've You know, that I know that

(24:06):
we were looking into solar on my house
until I realized that the tax credit wasn't
gonna help me, and I couldn't afford it
anyway.
I'm hopeful that someday soon I will have
solar on my house. But but they were
telling me that the way they tie them
together,
if one or two is shaded, the rest
of them work just fine. They keep pumping
out. In the old days, you know, you
had a blockage

(24:26):
ray was You had a leaf fall on
one panel on one side. That does that's
not true anymore. Yeah. You know? And and
anyone who insists that solar I mean, solar
is the cheapest form of energy there is
now, without a doubt. Again, Bill McKibben. I
lived for years in a house that had
solar panels. Really? That that's where we rent
a house on the solar. I would love
to. That's a dream of mine before I

(24:47):
die to have a solar house. It was
a small house. An electric car. It was
it was it was built
to be
very,
economic Mhmm. To run on electricity, the electricity
we used. But Well, and see, that's a
whole another discussion is is on,
humanity's
desire for bigger and better and more and
more. We really, I believe, need to learn

(25:10):
to,
live
with just what we need and and to
to reign this this greed and this capitalistic
approach to life. We're gonna rein it in.
And I'm gonna start to sound like a
socialist now or even a communist. Oh, I'm
giving the vapors.
But but my point is sustainable.

(25:31):
We humanity needs to start thinking about being
sustainable in everything we do.
Just because there's a bunch of trees out
our window here in Brookings, Oregon does not
mean we should cut every one of them
down. Right. I don't you know, I mean,
that was the thinking a hundred years ago
when they were coming through and locking everything.
It's like, oh, yeah. There's trees for miles
and miles, so we can cut a bunch.
You know, no biggie. They'll they'll grow back.

(25:53):
Well, yeah. But
they they forget the diversity
of an old growth forest
is is important in so many ways. It's
not the same as cutting every tree down
and planting more trees and having a tree
farm. They're two different creatures.
But that's a different Well, but no. And
and a good point there too. I I'll
call them right now, for lack of a

(26:14):
better term, the anti environmentalist, and then there's
a whether they are religious or not, there's
a lot of them out there. Sure. They're
good at picking the,
oh, I can't come up with the right
word. The The downsides.
Well, I'll use this for example. The Sacramento
River, the snail darter. That
it's a it's a necessary fish, but it's

(26:36):
a little
innocuous looking thing and but they made that
the the devil, if you will. Right. Oh,
you wanna save the stale daughter but spotted
owl here. Spotted owl's another one.
And I'm sure there's plenty more. I can't
come up with too many now, but but
they're good at that Yeah. And making people
say, oh, you you don't care about us.
You care about this one little creature. But

(26:56):
it it all works together. And you don't
care about the people who are gonna get
cancer from the noise from windmills. Well, that's
Nobody cares about them, it seems like. Well,
you know, I've never you know, you you
would think there would be a
some kind of a charity
ball or something to raise money for the
people who have
windmill
bill caused cancer.

(27:17):
It's it's it's hard to argue also,
because on the one hand and I wasn't
living here during the spotted owl controversy. But
on the one hand, I understand that there
were sawmills that were worried about losing
their businesses, people losing their jobs because they
were stopping the the,
lumber industry.

(27:37):
So I so I get that, and it's
really today, it's really hard. Another good example.
They're trying to reintroduce introduce the sea otter
to our coast. We did a show on
that. That's right. Right. Alaka Alliance is probably
yep. I know them. And,
the crab fishermen are very worried about that
because they're just sure that these sea otters
are gonna eat all the crap up. But

(27:58):
what they're not looking at also is without
sea otters, the purple urchin,
destroys the kelp forest. And without the kelp
forest, the fisheries
lose that nursery area that they they sort
of depend on. And without the fish the
nurseries,
the fisheries have no fish. And without no
fish, there are there is no fishing industry.
Mhmm. So, you know, if you start to

(28:19):
look big picture,
you can also then start to figure out,
okay. Well, how do we mitigate
the potential damage that a sea otter can
do to the crab industry
and still bring back the sea otters and
still get their the advantages of sea otters
when it comes to purple urchins and kelp.
And if enough people would stop
entrenching themselves

(28:40):
in that one
place where, oh my god, sea otters are
gonna kill the crab and I'm gonna lose
my job,
and start trying to think of of creative
ways to work with
each other, then, you know, I mean, that
and that's what Third Act tries to do.
I mean, we're we're we're definitely not
out there trying to demonize,

(29:01):
any any other industry per se.
We do believe that the fossil fuel industry
needs to,
wind itself down quicker than not. We do
believe that the support of the government should
be on renewable energies, not fossil fuels.
Fossil fuels
are, yes, gonna be somewhat necessary for a

(29:21):
little while longer perhaps because there are industries
that are difficult
to transition to renewables. Right. But
we have got to stop thinking that fossil
fuel is the only fuel that that we
should be using. I mean, we're talking about
burning stuff up and then it's gone. And
renewables are they're called renewables for a reason.
That's right. So Many many industries have died

(29:43):
over the years because of modernization.
And,
I like to use the analogy of way
way back when there was a guy who
had a had a very thriving business, and
he was the third generation
of this business.
And,
he made,
can't think of the name. Uh-oh. Spear points.

(30:04):
Arrowheads. Yeah. Arrowheads and spear points. Okay. And
he had it and and all of a
sudden, gradually, there was no longer need
for spear points. COVID spear points is another
Okay. Okay.
And they, you know, we hit, what what
are my children gonna do? And then but
anyhow, somehow, they survived. Yeah. Well, Kathleen, you're

(30:24):
you're hitting all the points that I that
I love. I mean, you're right. I I'll
go real quick to the, the fossil fuels,
the Bay Area in Richmond where I've worked
a lot for the railroad, but they're gonna
shut a bunch of plants down right now
because now that might reverse
right now with the Trump administration.
That's the reality, and it it we don't

(30:45):
wanna see people lose jobs. Right. We don't.
And
I agree that we can't just say, which
isn't gonna happen now, but we can't just
cut the fossil fuel industry off
right now. Mhmm. It it just wouldn't work.
Well, it couldn't happen. I mean, we still
don't have a lot. Jobs, we can't cut
them off right now?
What's that? The fossil? Because of jobs?
Yeah. We can create an AI industry that's

(31:08):
gonna kill all of those jobs,
but we can't stop the fossil fuel that
keeps us from killing our transoceanic
currents,
which when the ice caps are gone and
the transoceanic
currents have all stopped,
we turn into an ice age.
Well It's an ice age, guys. The planet
is fine. The planet is totally fine. It

(31:29):
doesn't care. It's what lives on the planet
that is gonna be reset
in the midst of all of this.
Not the planet.
The planet is okay. It's gone through it
before.
We will probably not be the last extinction
that occurs on this planet. We the sun's

(31:50):
got plenty of time left.
So this is what we're dealing with. It's
planetary
the planet is curing
the virus
that is killing life on the planet so
that the planet can reset.
Yeah. But it's not gonna
be many, many millennia into the future?

(32:11):
No. It's gonna be hundreds of years, not
many millennia. It's k. It's a lot shorter
time frame when we've gone from three fifty
to four twenty over what? Fifty years?
I think less than. Than that probably. Much
less than. If things don't change, you're being
very optimistic by saying hundreds.
Probably not even Optimistic

(32:31):
by saying hundreds. Yes, sir. I agree.
That that's what I would say. As long
before we ever get
people colonizing
Mars,
we will be
the the Earth will be resetting itself
to cure Speaking of that absolutely insane idea,
I've I've watched a couple of documentaries
about colonizing Mars.

(32:53):
It's
there's
there's not a square foot of that, of
that planet that you can walk around without
spacesuits on. And we have to build any
of that,
we can fix what's happening here. Exactly. End
of story. Yep. Because it's all the same
principles, and it's a lot easier to do
here. But we would rather talk about that

(33:16):
than do anything here, and we are moving
in the exact
wrong directions. Mhmm.
Last year,
during the election,
third act pivoted from focusing on climate change
to focusing on democracy.
And third act faith and trouble. Yeah. Yeah.
Go ahead. Third Act Faith did a couple
of, Zoom meetings

(33:37):
where we brought together panels of religious leaders
and,
talked about how important it was
as a,
spiritual person
to, it was your responsibility to vote. And
it was okay
for people to preach from the pulpit, from
the, you know, from from the leaders to
preach about voting. That wasn't

(33:58):
partisan.
Political is one thing. Partisanship is another thing.
Anyway, we we were trying everything we could
to make sure that,
Kamala
won the election, and we all know what
happened. Nice. So this
year, we've pivoted back to climate change because
we're we we are aware that there's probably

(34:19):
very little we can do
to,
make a difference in the political world as
it is.
But
Mike is right.
In fact, I am part of a small
group of people that gets together every couple
of weeks. We call ourselves the doomsters.
Ah. And there are some people in that
group that talk just like you talk.

(34:40):
And and and I I counter that
with,
with with the the belief that that
could very well be
naive on my part, could very well be
pie in the sky. But the belief
that
since
I I believe in a creator, I believe
in in love being the,

(35:03):
the,
power behind life,
I have to believe that
somewhere along the line, before
humanity is destroyed, before
life on Earth is destroyed,
good's gonna triumph, love's gonna triumph, light's gonna
triumph, whatever words you wanna use.
Good thought.
And so and I and I and I

(35:24):
I made this argument at our last doomsters
meeting,
that I have to walk around with this
this hope,
this belief that that there's
and and I'm not saying some entity is
gonna come down and fix things. That's not
what I'm saying at all. I don't believe
that for a second.
But I do believe that
that,
love will triumph through.

(35:46):
And because of other humans,
that
aren't quitting, that are are
staying in the fight, that even when it
looks hopeless,
are still doing everything they can to convince
their fellow man that our direction needs to
go in the way of
life. That's one of the questions I was
gonna ask you is,

(36:07):
is there optimism,
among the members of Third Act or the
Third Act organization that they actually can
pull this off? Well, Kathleen sounds like she
has some optimism. Well, me personally. Yeah. Me
personally. Yeah. Now Bill Bill McKibben,
his his subsects,
are generally he he does everything he possibly
can to point out the good that's going
on in the world. We have to remember

(36:29):
our perspective is is very
US centric,
and we forget there's a big world out
there. And there are people there are countries
out there that get,
not maybe not a 100%, but nearly a
100% of their energy comes from renewables. Now
China
is doing amazing things. They and and I
realized that China's the boogeyman these days or

(36:50):
maybe it's Russia. But, I think both.
The the thing the thing I gotta say
about about the Chinese government is when they
realized that coal
was not gonna was not the answer, that
it was gonna just make things worse, they
pivoted
to renewables like that, and everybody in that
country is hell bent on, hopefully that word's

(37:10):
okay, on on I think it looks like
on going toward renewables.
It it can be done, and countries other
than us are doing it.
The sad fact remains that there's three forty
seven million of us,
and we're all currently being led
down the path of destruction
by one man and his

(37:30):
Kabal.
That works. Yeah. His handlers, whatever you wanna
call them.
You know, but but
I do believe,
and I and I think third act's
I think third act has hope.
I mean, we're all in our last third
of life, you know? So we all know
we're not gonna be around when the worst

(37:51):
of it hits. I mean, I'm 60 pushing
65,
you know? So I think I got twenty
years left, maybe twenty five. If I I
did quit smoking, that helped. Oh.
If I if I start exercising again, that
might get me to 90. That's a biggie
though. You see what I'm saying? You know,
I I'm not gonna be around when the
worst of it happens. Yeah. But, you know,
most of us care even though we're not

(38:12):
gonna be around. But some of us don't
I know. By it sounds. Some of us
don't. By the way, (541)
661-4098.
If y'all have a question or comment, love
to hear from you. You you mentioned that
we're only one country in the world. And
the other day, I saw
Trump giving a speech talking about how many
trillions of dollars we've
gotten since he was president of the Yeah.

(38:34):
And not only that, we're respected around the
world now. Right. Right. Well, that's not true.
It's absolutely not true. Talked to some people
who have gone abroad
since he's been around.
Mhmm. And I said, I don't even know
once, but you elected him twice. I hope
that happened. Yeah. And, no, he's not respected
at all around the world. Yeah. I wanna
go real quick to another

(38:54):
about back to Bill
McKibben, if I have that right, Bill McKibben.
Bill McKibben. What I love that I heard
couple of things he said about the
I'll call them old people. I'm in my
seventies, so but but anyway You have a
right? Yeah. He said,
fossils oh god. Now I oh god. Where
fossils against fossil fuels. That works. So I

(39:15):
thought that was pretty good. Yeah. Yeah. That
works. Inspired me. And then another one was
I I really like this about the faith,
third act faith,
said roots in ethics
or just or ethics,
justice,
and compassion,
and the sacredness of the earth. Mhmm.

(39:36):
Who could not believe in that? But there
are some people, unfortunately, I don't that they
don't seem to care.
And not only do they not care Mhmm.
But they're trying to force feed us, let's
go back, we talked about earlier, to coal
Mhmm. To more fossil fuels. Mhmm. I I
and some of these people are smart. Mhmm.
Why would they even say that? You know,
and and I don't know. For the life

(39:56):
of me, I can't figure out how anybody
who's living on this planet, who has children
or grandchildren,
who
who understands
what's happening
to the climate,
I don't I don't get how they could
just blindly keep moving forward in that direction

(40:16):
of fossil fuels. I just
I don't know.
Part of the reason I belong to third
act is because at least in third act,
we all
we're all eyes wide open, and we're doing
everything we can to
help the rest of us move toward renewables
by showing how much cheaper it is, how
much more beneficial it is, how much cleaner

(40:38):
it is, how much healthier it is, how
much cheaper it is. I said that once
already, didn't I?
We can hear that again. There's a there's
a lot of reasons
to I mean, wouldn't you love to be
driving your electric car through town and never
having to stop at a gas station again
for the rest of your life?
I mean, good lord. People raising their hands
in the studio. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, think

(40:58):
of think of the money you'd save.
I drove my electric car to the show
today, and I happen to be looking at
the odometer.
And I put almost 26,000
miles on it since I've had got
since I got it. And
no gas, no oil changes, no
tune ups or tons of things. It just
sits there. I bring it home and plug
it in. It's amazing. Drive where I wanna

(41:20):
go. And now the one I have is
a very, very minimal it's a it was
made pretty much in the early days of
electric cars, but
it it does
99%
of my driving.
Mhmm. And, you know, the the whole
I mean, I I guess
part of the reason fossil fuel is hanging
on by its teeth and helped to get

(41:41):
this president elected, I believe. My opinion. My
opinion. No. No. I believe that too. So
I think it's it's because the only thing
that that they
that they worship is money. Mhmm. Money and
power.
And, I mean, we just had a sermon
today in church all about greed.
Jesus had some words to say about greed,
and how, you know, it was it was,

(42:03):
it was not a good thing. I mean,
God says, you know, why are you storing
up all of your your treasures on Earth
when you're gonna die tonight and then all
of your stuff is for naught?
Why did you bother when you should have
been saving your riches for God or something
along those lines? I'm fearful. Or saving up
for the I'm not a preacher.
But
but, you know, I mean, it's it's it's
like
this this money, this this craving for power

(42:24):
over others,
what are you gonna do with it? You're
still gonna die
someday.
And and you're not gonna get off this
planet,
despite what you might think, before the worst
happens,
you know? And and maybe you won't die
before the the, poor people in third world
countries or the poor in our own country,
you know, because you can't get out of

(42:45):
the heat or you, you know, you can't
you can't find a job because the jobs
are gone, because the economy is trash, because
our president seems to think that tariffs are
the answer. You know,
I don't know. I just throw my hands
up and I'm like, I'm gonna do what
I can do, what's in front of me,
what
I think I can I'm gonna try to
make a difference until the day I die.

(43:07):
I'm gonna not be quiet and I'm not
gonna
worry about who I I don't wanna make
enemies, but I'm not gonna worry about that.
And I don't care about money anymore.
There was a time when money meant something
because I was I never had it, you
know? So but it no longer really does.
Yeah. Unfortunately,
it's kinda necessary to But yeah. Yeah. But
no. But I I know what you're saying,

(43:29):
especially with the greed and the power.
It kinda makes me think I don't know
if this is a good analogy or not,
but
I'll go back to the dominion over the
animals, if you will. Sure. Even people.
The decimation of the buffalo herds across when
manifest destiny we've talked about this before, but
that one just galls me. Mhmm.
Just to to kill for the pleasure of

(43:50):
killing. Mhmm.
And that still goes on. Yeah. Yeah. They're
talking they're talking about in I was in
Montana killing, wolves,
like, 500 of them. I mean,
my father was a forest service ranger, and,
when,
the Yellowstone fire happened, a lot of people
in my mom's circle were just unhappy that

(44:11):
that fire had happened, that they why did
they try to put it out or whatever?
And dad said,
fire was a good thing, that that it
was gonna it was gonna,
It can be. That's for sure. And
rewilding is certainly great. Rewilding. Yeah. And and
the same the wolves the the story behind
the wolves in Yellowstone was I just saw

(44:31):
a post the other day.
It the wolves coming back kept the elk
and the deer herds in check, which in
turn,
stopped them from eating everything in sight, which
now today, there are actually aspen trees in
Yellowstone again. That was the picture that I
saw. And it's also it's also made those
prey herds much, healthier than they were because
they It's it's a circle of life, guys,

(44:53):
and it's all
it's all designed
for that reason. And humanity
in in all of our hubris, we we
come in and we think we know better
than God even or higher, you know, greater
Never your higher power. Whatever. Yeah. Like, I
use the word God because that's what I
grew up with. Well, that's okay. I apologize
for folks who don't like to hear the

(45:13):
word God. There are a lot of people
out there that the word God is like,
oh, don't say that word again. Well, it's
funny. And you know why I think that
is? Because a lot of the people have
used God as their cudgel. Yeah. They use
the Bible as a cudgel to to beat
down, to make people feel terrible and guilty.
Yeah. We're all sinners going to hell. All
of that, yeah, the crazy stuff. I wanna

(45:35):
take just a little Michael stepped out, but
he's back in. I just wanted to take
a little issue with we talked about you
talked about the planet not,
hurting or whatever.
I I guess I see it a little
differently because when I see the,
the melting glaciers, the icebergs
calving,
the
temperature of the ocean in Florida got one

(45:55):
time up into the 100 degree, that kind
of a thing, The coral reefs dying. To
me, that says the planet is hurting. Well,
the water,
we have ruined our water cycles.
Yeah. We talk about it being fossil fuel
and what the fossil fuel burning
has done has caused things. But the things

(46:16):
they have caused inevitably
are messing with our water cycles.
Our,
the rain cycles,
the The currents of the ocean or How
much snow we get, the currents in the
ocean, all of that.
What we should probably
I into my mind, and I'm not an
expert,

(46:37):
I don't think we have
Good point.
Good point. Not an expert, but I I
think what we have to do is
start to concentrate on how we're going to
rebuild the ice packs.
Well That's a that's a good point. Nobody's
talking about that because

(46:58):
the Earth
the physical Earth has two
major engines.
One of them is the ice caps that
drive the transoceanic
currents
that keep the oceans,
aerobic and alive and fish and
kelp and the sea otters. You talked about
Yosemite and reintroducing

(47:18):
the wolves. Yellowstone. Or Yellowstone.
That the sea otters, the,
the kelp, and,
the
Urchins. Urchins, they all exist in
an equilibrium
Mhmm. In a healthy environment. Yep. Where they
don't exist in equilibrium,

(47:38):
that's the unhealthy environment
which we have in essence
created
when we decided that we needed
all the
sea otter's fur
to be on Russian and American
backs Yeah. Instead of Right. In the ocean.
Wearing animals as Oh, well.
Yeah. Yeah. That kind of thing. For there's

(48:01):
a word I can't come up with, but
Yeah. To look good. What are we going
to do? Decoratively. Yes. Thank you. Yeah. You
can't help but see a woman, you don't
see them that much, but and these beautiful,
furs with incredible ruffs and I'm thinking Good
grief. The animal that ruff came off of
must have been beautiful. Well, I don't like
that. Kathleen, before we get to the last

(48:23):
ten or twelve minutes, I wanted to get
to we had talked about the,
the evil banks as I'm flipping through my,
blah blah blah because that I have to
deal with three of them. That's Citi,
Bank of America,
Chase,
and Wells Fargo Mhmm. Were the other ones.
So, you know,
we talked about maybe

(48:43):
they there was a movement to try to
cut up credit cards. Yeah. So with before
before the show aired, everyone, we were chatting
a little bit about Third Act, and I
was telling these guys how I got involved.
So, I mentioned that I saw Bill McKibben
on PBS,
doing a brief but spectacular take on,
whatever it was. And that led me to
him, which in turn led me to Third

(49:04):
Act, and I joined in 2023.
The big action that year
was called three two one two three.
That was 03/21/2023.
And the idea was on that day, we
were asking everybody who had credit cards from
one of those four dirty banks, Wells Fargo,
Bank of America, Chase, and Citi

(49:25):
to, if they could, cut their cards up.
And the idea was we were saying to
these banks, if you don't cut out
funding fossil fuel industry, we are gonna cut
up our credit cards so that you don't
get our money to do that, basically.
So as part of Third Act Faith, we
were trying to figure out how we could
support this effort
since we're a national and we don't have

(49:46):
any boots on the ground specifically.
So we developed a, service of solidarity, we
called it, that aired the night before
for any third actor that wanted to, watch
it.
And we just did a, basically, a church
service, if you will, that gave folks who
were gonna be participating in the action the
next day,
if they needed it,

(50:08):
a a sense of, you know, solidarity, a
sense of we're in this together, a sense
of, hey, there are, you know, there's you
can pray, you can there's music that will
get you geared up.
You know, there's there's all kinds of things
to help you get ready for this big
day. And so my, song leader at church,
Diane and I, we recorded with the help
of our pastor, we recorded three songs that's

(50:29):
on that service. And it's still on Third
Act's YouTube page, I guess, is what I've
been told. That's good. But that was my
introduction.
I don't have any one of those credit
cards, but I do bank at one of
the large
national banks that's that's no better than the
others.
And so the the point the idea behind
that action was

(50:50):
to, cut off the,
the funding stream for fossil fuel industry. And
the best way to do that is to
let the banks who are giving them loaning
them the money
realize that there are other customers of theirs
that are not happy with that, and we
will do what we can to take our
money away from them. And the idea was
to convince them that maybe they ought to

(51:11):
stop funding fossil fuel.
And it it made a difference
on a on a small scale for the
next couple of years
until this year
when, we all know what is happening this
year. The administration,
is now saying, Oh, no. We need those
fossil fuels. And so the banks
are backing off of their promises and saying,

(51:33):
okay. Now we're just gonna give money to
these industries again because
that's Right. What our president wants. That's right.
And, yeah, and, again, we were talking before
showing I I've tried earlier in my,
well, I say my brief life. I've been
up this way about seven years. Anyway,
because I have a card at Citi. I

(51:53):
have a card two cards at b of
a and,
my checking account, Chase.
But
it is pretty difficult for all of us.
I tried to get out get out of
there one time,
and I had somebody said, oh, don't turn
your credit card in.
You'll get a worse credit score. Mhmm. You
know? Now I'm still

(52:14):
my credit score is okay now. And if
I did that, what the heck if I
can I handle a couple of points? I
think so. So I'm rethinking that, but I
don't think I can do it yet with,
the Chase Bank only because everything I have
is kinda tied into the you we talked
about that. Yeah. Yeah. Your bill's coming out
and but,
it's it is
a consideration. I would like to go to

(52:35):
the I do belong to the one credit
union Mhmm. And, you know, go with just
that. Well, you know, people people,
when they think about the climate emergency and
and and all of the things going on,
one of the questions that will come up
is, well, what can I do? I'm just
one person, and I'm not gonna make a
difference. It's like with your your vote. You
know? A lot of folks my my husband

(52:56):
was one of them for years. It's like,
why do I why bother to vote? My
vote doesn't count. You know? I'm just one
person. Yeah. But,
if everybody
did what they could and if that means
you can cut up your credit card, you
do it. But if you can't, you find
another way to, make
your voice heard, another way that may convince

(53:16):
somebody you know,
that maybe, you know, this is a better
direction to go.
Anyway,
if we all
looked at it as doing what we can
what what we can do personally,
then
collectively, it's like that butterfly effect. Collectively, we
will make a difference.
Who who was it that said that The

(53:37):
flapping of the butterflies? Yeah. The the things
or anything. Happens on the other side of
the world. Thank you. Okay. Yeah. And then,
was it Margaret
Sanger who said it was the quote about,
never doubt that
that,
a small group of people can make can
change the world. In fact, it's the only
thing that has or something along those lines.
Yeah. Margaret Mead. Margaret Mead. Thank you. I

(53:59):
knew it was a Margaret somebody. Yeah. Margaret
Mead.
You know, it's just that kind of thinking
that that,
is underneath the philosophy at Third Act. We
we know we're older and we're tired and
we're, you know, we're we're near our end
of our lives, you know, and we've only
got so much left to give. But the
little bit that we've got to give, we're
gonna give it with all of our heart

(54:20):
and with all of our energy.
Because
can you look your grandkids in the face
and say, Oh, I didn't do anything back
then. You know, I just sat around and
watched TV because I couldn't make a difference
because I'm just one person. Yeah. Or, I
mean, I can't imagine anyone with grandkids or
kids who
could honestly
say,
I don't care what happens in the future.

(54:42):
You know, I don't it's it's fine with
me if it falls apart. What can I
do? I'm just Well, and there are people
out there like that. I know. Some of
them already Well, they don't they don't believe
that it's really happening is the problem. They
don't believe it's really happening. They can't, you
know and and it gets me a little
choked up at times. I I
my,
heart
for this work
really lies with

(55:03):
with mother nature itself, with the animals and
the plants, the other the rest of life.
Human beings have choices, and we are we
can make choices that will better our lives
or will make our lives worse.
But
nothing else in life has the same kind
of choices. I mean, a redwood tree cannot
up and move, you know, and and go
200 miles and start growing up there just

(55:24):
because it's getting hotter where they live. I
mean, they're animals, same thing. Animals can't move
fast enough. They can't they can't, what not
translate? Acclimate?
No. That's not the word. Migrate? Migrate, but
that's not the word either.
Evolve. They can't evolve fast enough. This this
the the the damage we're causing to the
climate is go so fast Yeah. That nothing

(55:47):
nothing can adapt.
And that's where I think the true problem
is. People talk about how there have been
extinctions in the past, and, yeah, there have
been. For sure. But they took eons to
happen.
Right? And and we are we are just
pushing it so fast, and and we're we're
doing so much damage in so little time
that nothing nothing stands a chance. And it

(56:09):
breaks my heart. It does. It truly breaks
my heart. It does does, I think, all
of us too. And, you know, we talked
about
just because I don't live where the polar
bears are or I don't live right now
where the snail daughter, I just care about
the whole thing coming together, if that makes
it. Boy, we are almost out of time.
I do wanna ask you real quick on
the Third Act Oregon faith.

(56:30):
Are there, like if for people to get
there, are there dues?
No. Con
how do they get
Well, we're donations? We're an yeah. We're a
nonprofit, and so you can certainly go to
thirdact.org,
the national organization.
And, there's a donate button there.
You I would encourage people here in Brookings
to get involved with Third Act Oregon.

(56:52):
They, they they're based in Portland, but they're
really good people. I've met Cindy and John
up there, and they're really doing a lot
of good things in our state.
So go to thirdact.org
and look on the working groups,
tab and find Oregon
and sign up and start going to their
Zoom meetings.
Okay. There's lots of ways to make a

(57:12):
difference and,
yeah, I should stop talking. Oh, I and
and, I was going to toss in, this
coming Tuesday night, SOCAN Yes. At the library.
Very cool. Thanks. Bill Gorms,
gonna give us a wonderful speech, and Yep.
We're gonna learn a lot of good things.
And we'll get to know new people. Southern
Oregon, climate action now.

(57:35):
And I, personally, since I live just across
the border in Smith River, I'll look into
third act
Northern California. There you go. Yeah. My home,
and I love it. And we all just
love where we live. Yes. Kathleen, thank you
so much for being our guest. This was
great
and learned a lot, and, we
have a lot more to learn, apparently. Well,

(57:55):
thanks for entertaining
my
Oh, well rambling.
You you you prove the negative. I I
was reading more about they said that seniors
like us, you know, we might not have
the energy and
the whatever.
You've proven that wrong
because you have the enthusiasm,
the passion, the energy, and, And there are

(58:16):
people out there that care. You betcha. You
betcha. I was just curious. You talked about
being,
part of a subgroup called the doomsters. Mhmm.
When you get together and get really upset,
do you call it a doomster fire?
That's a good one. I gotta share that
with him. That little thing that Gotta share
that. That's brilliant, Mike. Alright.

(58:37):
Well, hey. Thank thank thank you again, Kathleen,
and we're pushing up the clock, and we'll
be here next week.
I don't quite know. Well, we'll figure it
out. We'll be here next week. Thank you,
Kathleen.