In this episode of Joyously Free!, host Joanie Lindenmeyer welcomes Pastor Jim Abbott to discuss “Brewed Theology,” a new community group dedicated to open-minded conversations about faith, spirituality, and life’s big questions. Pastor Abbott shares his journey from Indiana to the Pacific Northwest, his calling to interim ministry, and his passion for fostering dialogue. Brewed […]
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(00:12):
Hi, and welcome KCIW listeners, to one hundred
point seven FM and KZZZH
Humboldt
County. Yes. We are in two locations now.
But right now, Jim and I oh, I
already gave away my secret. You know my
guest speaker.
We are in Brookings, Oregon, and we are
on the show with me, none better than
Joni Lindenmeier, and the show is called Joyously
(00:34):
Free. Let's begin with our morning salutation.
I'm gonna say it's a brand new day,
and I'll ask my speaker here to say
respond with it's never been lived before.
It's a brand new day. It's never been
lived before. You got it. You got it.
This radio radio show, as Will and Viv
named it, is a show that talks about
LGBTQ
(00:55):
stories and tips along with church, religion, faith,
spirituality,
and joy.
Simply put, the purpose of the show is
to share,
radiate, and spread
abundant joy and abundant freedom, hence that title,
joyously free. It is also the title of
my second book that I coauthored with Elizabeth
Ann Atkins of 2sisterswriting.com.
(01:17):
In this radio broadcast, you know this from
the very beginning, there's no hate speech, there's
no hate behavior, and no bullying.
It will be blasted with the three c's,
courage, confidence, and collaboration.
Together today, let's seek understanding.
Let's think out of the box.
Our special guest is waiting. In just a
few minutes, we'll get to him. But let's
(01:38):
start with our prayer, our opening our hearts
to our creator to shine light on our
community and our world.
I excitedly believe in hope, in the power
of the divine, and that Jesus, God, whatever
name you put on a higher being, is
always with me and with you.
So be not afraid or troubled,
(02:00):
saddened or depressed.
Joy and peace are an internal expression of
love and harmony that is already within you
and me, and we only have to reach
deep to find it and let it out.
All is well with my soul, for love
is abundant and everlasting.
Let's take a few breaths.
Let's center ourselves.
(02:21):
Breathe in
with the good
and out with doubt.
Let's breathe in deeper
through your nose,
out with your mouth,
letting go of any fears.
And one last big deep breath,
(02:42):
in with joy
and out with any worry or despair.
In the name of Mother Earth,
God our creator,
Jesus our redeemer,
and the blowing winds of the Holy Spirit.
Hi, Jesus. Hi, God. Hi, spirit.
Thank you for being with us this beautiful
(03:02):
day.
I've chosen a reading that I've received in
my morning rituals every day.
It's a a scripture quote from John,
and it says,
it was not you who chose let me
start over. It was not you who chose
me, says the lord,
but I who chose you
(03:23):
and appointed you to go and bear fruit,
fruit that will last.
When I read that in this morning's prayer,
I thought about how awesome it is that
the Lord chooses each one of us for
our unique
abilities
to bring about the kin dom of our
God.
(03:44):
That it's not really our choice, but it
is our choice, but it's God's choice to
begin with and that we're appointed
to go and bear that fruit. And what
is that fruit?
For each of us, that fruit might be
different. Maybe it's extreme compassion.
Maybe it's,
knowing the economy of our world and being
(04:05):
able to help people with our economics.
Maybe it's you're a prayerful person.
Maybe you're a high energy person.
But whatever your gifts and talents, those are
some of the fruits that we bear for
the kingdom.
So again, I'm gonna repeat that and maybe
you can reflect on it later. It was
not you who chose me, says the Lord,
(04:26):
but I who chose you and appointed you
to go and bear fruit,
fruit that will last.
Let us end our prayer and reflection
by just lifting up our friends and family
who find creator guidance and healing today.
We thank you, holy one, for hearing us
and being with us.
(04:47):
Bless us to always do your will,
and let's have a happy day together, KCIW
and KZZAH
listeners. So
ladies and gentlemen, people and creatures, everybody out
there in the world, we have with us
today an incredible friend
and also our semi retired
(05:07):
pastor from the Lutheran church, and his name
is Jim Abbott. Welcome, Jim. Howdy. Howdy. I
love it. I love it. How are you
doing today? I'm doing great. I had a
really good morning, got a lot done,
and had a beautiful drive through the Samuel
Boardman Scenic Corridor between here and Gold Beach.
Fantastic.
Fantastic. You're on a roll already out there
(05:29):
with mother nature. Absolutely.
Fantastic. Fantastic. Well, you know, you and I
have talked, and we have a title and
a theme for today's radio show. It's called
Brood
Theology,
Discovering the Divinity Among Us and Within Us.
So as a retired pastor, we're just gonna
jump right into it. And and tell us
a little bit about you, then we'll get
(05:50):
into the topic and title.
Okay. Tell us a little bit about you,
Jim. Okay. I was born in Elkhart, Indiana,
the home of Khan Band Instruments. Mhmm. I
thought of that as I saw the name
of the building where we're in the basement,
the Black trumpet.
Con, however, was brass instruments for bands, and
if you played in a high school band,
you probably had a con.
(06:12):
Oh, very cool. My life led me from
Northern Indiana to the San Francisco Bay Area
for a year when I was just a
little kid, then off to Montana,
and then back to the Midwest.
Wow. But in those journeys West, I fell
in love with the Pacific Northwest and wanted
to live here.
That worked for nineteen years Oh. Going to
college at Whitman in Walla Walla, and then
(06:34):
where I met my wife, and then to,
Seattle, and then to Eastern Washington, to Pullman,
Washington,
where I earned a master's degree in speech
communication.
I saw the award you guys got a
couple years ago for your coverage, the Edward
r Murrow award. He's a famous alumni of
that college. Oh my gosh. I did not
(06:55):
know that. He went to Whitman. He went
no. He went to Wazoo. Oh, Wazoo. Okay.
Washington State. Yes.
Time passed. I helped my wife with her
career in teaching.
And then in 1999,
at the ripe old age of 48, I
entered seminary. Oh my god. Having pushed the
call off for many years, even though people
(07:17):
told me I would be good at it,
I didn't think I would be. I'll be
darned. I served churches in Texas where we
then lived
and discovered after eleven years as a parish
pastor that my real call is for what
we call interim ministry.
I go in after a pastor leaves, and
I help the church
stay afloat
(07:37):
and find their next pastor.
Wow. So It's like a long term substitute
in my world. Yes. A long term substitute.
Yes. A long term substitute teacher.
Thanks for saying it that way because I
feel my gifts are for speaking
and teaching. I'll be darned. Which is why
I'm
with you and with
(07:58):
pastor Bob
are organizing this new group in town called
Brood
Theology. And that's our topic. That's what we're
gonna talk about. Exactly. Yes. Yes. Your turn,
Joni. My turn?
Well, first off, I wanna go back 48
years old going into the seminary.
And I I love that story because when
when I believe, when God or whatever name
(08:19):
you put on your divine being, when God
calls,
you only have one answer, and it's Yes.
Yes. And and you did that. Yes.
Well, he had to yell. He'd been whispering
before,
but he had to yell this time around.
Mhmm. Mhmm. But you heard it loud and
clear. You heard it loud and clear. Oh
my gosh. Oh my gosh. Well, perfect. And
I tell you, it's an honor and a
(08:40):
privilege to have you here and to also
talk about our new thing for our community.
And can you first talk about why this
idea came to you for running this Brood
Theology?
I was at our annual
assembly for Lutherans in Oregon.
Well, for ELCA Lutherans, I won't get down
(09:01):
that rabbit hole. There are a lot of
flavors of Lutherans. Mhmm. And
let's just say that this is the flavor
that I like best. Okay. And me too
because it's so gay friendly. It is gay
friendly. Absolutely.
To jump way ahead,
we believe that God
is open to
and calls
(09:23):
everybody
regardless
of their
sexual orientation,
their ability, their disability,
their preferences, their needs.
God calls each of us.
Yes.
And so
at that, there were tables around the perimeter
of the meeting, and there were people who
were explaining what they were all about, and
(09:44):
there was a retired Lutheran minister who had
a table with Brood Theology.
And he's got four of his former interns
helping him, and they have compiled
a huge list of potential topics to talk
about
and a huge
background research
to show how you can apply
(10:06):
biblical knowledge
to everyday questions. Oh, wow. And that's been
my call
as a pastor
is to take the assigned or recommended texts
and say,
what can this mean for the people I
serve
this week?
And that's how I approach
(10:28):
my teaching. How can I serve, how can
I teach
the people
that I have in front of me now
and these days on the Internet?
Yes.
How can I take this ancient text and
say, for us today,
this is what it can mean for each
of us?
And that's that's my that's my joy.
(10:51):
Right on. That's my joy. Right on. And
that ties into the show, joyously free. Because
when you find your joy, you just you
just let it out. Yeah. You let it
out. And so those topics let let's go
back. The word brood, a lot of people
hear that word and they're thinking, how do
you spell it and what does it mean?
Can you help us with that? Yeah. It's
it's not brood as in scowling
(11:12):
and and being sad. It's b r e
w
e d. It's when you brew something.
You and I were talking the other day,
and we were talking about brewing beer,
which a lot of people do in their
homes even. Yes. It's a few simple ingredients,
a little water, a little grain,
a little yeast, a little hope,
(11:33):
and you end up with something that for
most folks is tasty, delicious, and you also
brew tea.
I brew a lot of coffee in my
life. Okay.
And
so
it's taking two common ordinary things
and putting them together
(11:53):
to make something that's pleasing
to those who drink it. That's an awesome
and that's what we're gonna do with these
groups and these conversations that we're gonna have.
And one of the locations that we do
this is on the first Saturday of the
month at the Chetco brewery
(12:13):
so we can brew
conversation,
open mindedness,
the ability to really listen to somebody's
not just their brain and their thoughts, but
their heart.
Right. Is that true? That's true. In fact,
it's the combination
of heart and mind,
of spirit
and wisdom
that you combine together, and we pray
(12:36):
that people who participate
will have an experience
of
after these conversations,
they go, Oh,
I never thought of it that way. Mhmm.
But it makes sense. Mhmm. Especially for me
where I am today. Mhmm. And I wanna
go back to your introduction because that's very,
(12:58):
very important. The
conversations
that we will have,
we have some ground rules
and
they overlap with what you noticed. No bullying.
No talking over.
Be considerate
and kind and generous.
Even if you say, Oh, that person may
(13:20):
see it that way,
I see it a little different.
That's great. In fact, one shines light on
the other and the reflection back enlightens both
people in a conversation.
Excellent. Yes. And we so need that in
our world today because so many people think
of it as a a right and a
wrong or the old fashioned term of black
(13:42):
and white,
but it can be all encompassing,
all inclusive.
Yes.
Yes.
And,
black and white
only gets you so far.
I read a daily meditation
Mhmm. From a Franciscan
(14:04):
monk
who reminds us that change only comes
after great love
or great suffering.
And so,
change is
possible. It is sometimes
very painful.
But on the other side of that,
(14:27):
you discover
a deeper understanding of yourself
and experience a deeper understanding of the divine
in you,
and you're better at noticing the divine
around you.
As I drove from home down here for
this interview, I was thinking about
(14:47):
I was driving along the North Bank Of
The Chetco, and I'm going,
only an awesome
God
could have created
this much beauty
and variety
as we as I drove along
that river that we all take for granted.
Mhmm. Except when it's gonna flood.
(15:09):
But
the purpose of this is to help people
understand
they are not
chained
to a
rigid
literalism,
but are freed
to think deeply
about important questions.
And even
(15:29):
we may
come to different conclusions,
but we know in our heart and our
mind
that we have experienced the divine guiding us
through that process
of seeing. Yes. Oh my well said, well
said. There's your there's your homily lesson for
the day. Also known in the in the
(15:51):
radio world, a mic drop. That was phenomenal.
Oh my gollies. Oh my gollies. You know?
And and with that spirit and that wisdom
that happens
in the midst of change,
how about we delve into, if you don't
mind, some of the topics
that will probably be addressed at the Broad
Theology? Sure. Okay? Sure.
(16:13):
I'm just gonna read a couple things from
the list here. And if something grabs your
fancy, Jim, jump into it and give us
just a a couple key points of what's
going through your mind and your heart, your
wisdom and your spirit. Okay?
One is
afterlife, resurrection,
Christian nationalism,
climate and creation care,
(16:36):
difficult conversations.
Oh, let's let's And how about one about
who's God?
Anyway.
Yeah.
Go back to that very first one because
that
Afterlife and resurrection.
I was talking with a fellow the other
day,
and he was saying that
(16:57):
virtually every one of the world's
great religions
says something about
an afterlife.
And for me today,
it's especially important.
I lost a dear, dear friend
over the weekend.
(17:18):
And I had,
thanks
be to God,
that he and I had a wonderful conversation
just a couple of days before he passed.
And
I know
that he was an important part of my
life,
and I was an important part of his
(17:39):
life. Mhmm.
And we got to know each other driving
around rural Washington County, Texas
delivering Meals on Wheels.
Wow. We would spend
more than an hour every week just cruising
around, sharing stories, and he told me about
this part of the world that I had
never known before.
(18:00):
And we we both loved our time together.
Mhmm. Mhmm. And what a great memory. Yeah.
Yeah. What a great memory. But at the
same time, the change, the,
that he's no longer here physically Right. That
he can't talk to you, can't pick up
the phone, not able to text you, you
still know spirit wise about a resurrection.
(18:21):
Yes.
And
beyond that, I refuse to speculate.
It's way above my pay grade.
But you believe. I believe. People used to
When I was pastoring congregations,
people would ask me, well, is so and
so in heaven? Or, you know, and I
would answer, it's way above my pay grade.
(18:41):
Yeah. And I would also say that's not
for you or I
to decide.
It is how the divine that surrounds us
and the divine that was within that person
manifest
and come to a rest together.
Wow.
It made me think
(19:02):
that,
again, as I I think I don't play
the radio when I drive, I just I
think. Mhmm. And I imagine that
the divine within us can be manifest.
No one can look into my soul.
I know you, Joni, but you can't see
that deep. Uh-huh. Uh-huh. But you can see
how I live,
(19:23):
how I talk,
how I react.
You can see the manifestations,
the public face
of who I am.
And we can see that in other people.
Sometimes though,
that public face
hides some deep pain. Mhmm. Mhmm. And We
really don't know people's stories. When you don't
know their story. And then sometimes we assume
(19:46):
or presume
or make a judgment call when we don't
know the whole story and the whole picture.
Oh, that is so true
and often so sad. Mhmm. We jump to
conclusions
based on some external factor
that may have been important in our life
at one point
and means something entirely different
(20:08):
to the other person. Yes.
So
this Brood theology
is designed to have us share our stories,
our hopes, our dreams,
our sorrows,
our fears
in a place that's safe, in
a place that gives us a common reference
(20:29):
point, I. E, the Bible,
and in a place where we can
then
have some time
to process
what we've heard that day.
Yeah.
That's so important. Day. You just said that
day. That day. Because things happen to us
(20:51):
and with us and for us and within
us every single day. And so that daily
connection is so important. Now what happens, Jim,
if somebody doesn't believe in the Bible? Can
they still come to a brewed theology?
Oh,
of course.
I don't believe in the Bible. Mhmm. I
believe that the Bible is what has been
(21:11):
given to me as a Christian,
as my guide,
as my reference point,
as the start
of my discerning
the divine
within me and around me. I don't believe
in a book,
I believe in a God.
A God that is
(21:32):
so big
that my puny
human mind
will never
fully
comprehend
god.
But I get some street signs along the
way. Wow. And everybody, if you could see
Jim right now, his eyes are a little
watery. You could tell the emotions have hit.
He is fired up over here, and I'm
(21:54):
I'm here with fist pumps going, yes. Yes.
Yes. You know? So the emotion
involved with that God, not a book,
is profound.
Yes. And it sounds like you had a
great profound relationship with this friend of yours
that just died. Yes. Just one of many
people probably that you have connected with in
your life.
(22:14):
Yes. Yes.
And, you know, we didn't do a lot
of God talk
driving around in rural Washington County. First of
all, you have to be careful because the
roads are narrow. Mhmm. And you wouldn't
the roads are narrow, and the addresses are
obscure.
Wow. So, but
but what we shared together
was our life experiences.
(22:37):
And,
what we shared together was our life experiences,
and
I could tell he was a member of
a congregation I served, and he was there
every week
like clockwork
until he got to the point where he
could no longer come. Mhmm. So I could
tell that God played a big part in
his life, and I could tell by the
(22:57):
way he treated other people
that that was how God
was manifest
in him and through him
in the way he treated others.
Right on. Right on. Beautiful. You know, and
and if if that's the way it it
happens in that person's life, that's the way
it happens, and each of us are unique
that way in how it may be. So
(23:18):
it may not be a church that we
find this God.
Is that true?
Church helps,
but
sadly, having read
all you know, at least glanced through all
of your books,
church can be hurtful
if people who are already there
decide that they have the one and only
(23:39):
answer.
And I think that's
kind of what helped me,
quite honestly be a much better interim minister
Uh-huh. Than a Sunday after Sunday parish minister
because my
upbringing of moving around
helped me
learn how to get to know people quickly.
(24:01):
And that was a big plus in the
last half of my ministry.
Wow. That's really cool. So And and that's
and that's a key point, to get to
know people. Yes. Get to know a person
personally. Yes. Oh, my I have gotten to
know you better just in this twenty, twenty
five minutes of conversation, Jim, and and I
thank you for that big time.
What final comments would you like to leave
(24:23):
for the listeners today at KZZH
and KCIW?
Be open.
Fear not.
Come. And if you
don't feel inspired,
you don't need to come back. We don't
take attendance
and we don't charge anything.
(24:43):
Exactly. This is an opportunity to get to
know a wider circle
of people.
And where do they go? When do they
go? Where do they go? They go on
the first
Saturday of the month
at 12:30
to Chetco brewery,
and they go on the first Wednesday
at 05:30
to the Chetco
(25:04):
community library.
So if you don't yes. That's
that's where to go. And it's when to
go. Everybody and all people
no matter what no matter what. And so
just come, enjoy, be safe, have some rude
conversation.
I'll bring my coffee. There you go. There
you go. Oh, thank you, beautiful listeners on
(25:24):
the gorgeous coast of Southern Oregon and Northern
California for being with us in this joyously
free manner today. We hope you have been
inspired,
challenged, and have enjoyed the stories, the tips,
the hopes, the love, and the joys with
our special special guest, semi retired,
Jim Abbott,
and me, none better than Joni Lindenmeyer.
It's been a phenomenal day. Thank you so
(25:45):
much, Jim. Thank you so much. From the
top of my heart, I thank you. Thank
you, KZAW
one hundred point seven. Tom is on the
radio today. Of course, we have the team
of Candice and Rose and Mike for making
this happen. We also wanna thank KZZH,
Nate Dawg, for having us with you today
too. We'll be found on kciw.org
or kzzh.
You can leave us any kind of moment
(26:05):
that you want for leaving us a comment
or a suggestion or whatever. You can get
a hold of me, of course, with my
books at the library or Barnes and Noble
or wherever the books are sold, but I
would really recommend that that you go for
these three books that Jim also referred to.
So any thoughts or feelings, we look forward
to hearing from you. We're gonna end with
our normal mantra, which is besides having a
(26:27):
great day, smile big and wear bright colors.
A lot of things are happening this week.
And let's give a shout out to Troy
for Rainbow Connections who airs on Friday afternoons
at 03:00,
KCIW.
Once again, smile big and wear bright colors.
Thank you, Jim. Thank you.
Hi, and welcome KCIW listeners, to one hundred
point seven FM and KZZZH
Humboldt
County. Yes. We are in two locations now.
But right now, Jim and I oh, I
already gave away my secret. You know my
guest speaker.
We are in Brookings, Oregon, and we are
on the show with me, none better than
Joni Lindenmeier, and the show is called Joyously
(00:34):
Free. Let's begin with our morning salutation.
I'm gonna say it's a brand new day,
and I'll ask my speaker here to say
respond with it's never been lived before.
It's a brand new day. It's never been
lived before. You got it. You got it.
This radio radio show, as Will and Viv
named it, is a show that talks about
LGBTQ
(00:55):
stories and tips along with church, religion, faith,
spirituality,
and joy.
Simply put, the purpose of the show is
to share,
radiate, and spread
abundant joy and abundant freedom, hence that title,
joyously free. It is also the title of
my second book that I coauthored with Elizabeth
Ann Atkins of 2sisterswriting.com.
(01:17):
In this radio broadcast, you know this from
the very beginning, there's no hate speech, there's
no hate behavior, and no bullying.
It will be blasted with the three c's,
courage, confidence, and collaboration.
Together today, let's seek understanding.
Let's think out of the box.
Our special guest is waiting. In just a
few minutes, we'll get to him. But let's
(01:38):
start with our prayer, our opening our hearts
to our creator to shine light on our
community and our world.
I excitedly believe in hope, in the power
of the divine, and that Jesus, God, whatever
name you put on a higher being, is
always with me and with you.
So be not afraid or troubled,
(02:00):
saddened or depressed.
Joy and peace are an internal expression of
love and harmony that is already within you
and me, and we only have to reach
deep to find it and let it out.
All is well with my soul, for love
is abundant and everlasting.
Let's take a few breaths.
Let's center ourselves.
(02:21):
Breathe in
with the good
and out with doubt.
Let's breathe in deeper
through your nose,
out with your mouth,
letting go of any fears.
And one last big deep breath,
(02:42):
in with joy
and out with any worry or despair.
In the name of Mother Earth,
God our creator,
Jesus our redeemer,
and the blowing winds of the Holy Spirit.
Hi, Jesus. Hi, God. Hi, spirit.
Thank you for being with us this beautiful
(03:02):
day.
I've chosen a reading that I've received in
my morning rituals every day.
It's a a scripture quote from John,
and it says,
it was not you who chose let me
start over. It was not you who chose
me, says the lord,
but I who chose you
(03:23):
and appointed you to go and bear fruit,
fruit that will last.
When I read that in this morning's prayer,
I thought about how awesome it is that
the Lord chooses each one of us for
our unique
abilities
to bring about the kin dom of our
God.
(03:44):
That it's not really our choice, but it
is our choice, but it's God's choice to
begin with and that we're appointed
to go and bear that fruit. And what
is that fruit?
For each of us, that fruit might be
different. Maybe it's extreme compassion.
Maybe it's,
knowing the economy of our world and being
(04:05):
able to help people with our economics.
Maybe it's you're a prayerful person.
Maybe you're a high energy person.
But whatever your gifts and talents, those are
some of the fruits that we bear for
the kingdom.
So again, I'm gonna repeat that and maybe
you can reflect on it later. It was
not you who chose me, says the Lord,
(04:26):
but I who chose you and appointed you
to go and bear fruit,
fruit that will last.
Let us end our prayer and reflection
by just lifting up our friends and family
who find creator guidance and healing today.
We thank you, holy one, for hearing us
and being with us.
(04:47):
Bless us to always do your will,
and let's have a happy day together, KCIW
and KZZAH
listeners. So
ladies and gentlemen, people and creatures, everybody out
there in the world, we have with us
today an incredible friend
and also our semi retired
(05:07):
pastor from the Lutheran church, and his name
is Jim Abbott. Welcome, Jim. Howdy. Howdy. I
love it. I love it. How are you
doing today? I'm doing great. I had a
really good morning, got a lot done,
and had a beautiful drive through the Samuel
Boardman Scenic Corridor between here and Gold Beach.
Fantastic.
Fantastic. You're on a roll already out there
(05:29):
with mother nature. Absolutely.
Fantastic. Fantastic. Well, you know, you and I
have talked, and we have a title and
a theme for today's radio show. It's called
Brood
Theology,
Discovering the Divinity Among Us and Within Us.
So as a retired pastor, we're just gonna
jump right into it. And and tell us
a little bit about you, then we'll get
(05:50):
into the topic and title.
Okay. Tell us a little bit about you,
Jim. Okay. I was born in Elkhart, Indiana,
the home of Khan Band Instruments. Mhmm. I
thought of that as I saw the name
of the building where we're in the basement,
the Black trumpet.
Con, however, was brass instruments for bands, and
if you played in a high school band,
you probably had a con.
(06:12):
Oh, very cool. My life led me from
Northern Indiana to the San Francisco Bay Area
for a year when I was just a
little kid, then off to Montana,
and then back to the Midwest.
Wow. But in those journeys West, I fell
in love with the Pacific Northwest and wanted
to live here.
That worked for nineteen years Oh. Going to
college at Whitman in Walla Walla, and then
(06:34):
where I met my wife, and then to,
Seattle, and then to Eastern Washington, to Pullman,
Washington,
where I earned a master's degree in speech
communication.
I saw the award you guys got a
couple years ago for your coverage, the Edward
r Murrow award. He's a famous alumni of
that college. Oh my gosh. I did not
(06:55):
know that. He went to Whitman. He went
no. He went to Wazoo. Oh, Wazoo. Okay.
Washington State. Yes.
Time passed. I helped my wife with her
career in teaching.
And then in 1999,
at the ripe old age of 48, I
entered seminary. Oh my god. Having pushed the
call off for many years, even though people
(07:17):
told me I would be good at it,
I didn't think I would be. I'll be
darned. I served churches in Texas where we
then lived
and discovered after eleven years as a parish
pastor that my real call is for what
we call interim ministry.
I go in after a pastor leaves, and
I help the church
stay afloat
(07:37):
and find their next pastor.
Wow. So It's like a long term substitute
in my world. Yes. A long term substitute.
Yes. A long term substitute teacher.
Thanks for saying it that way because I
feel my gifts are for speaking
and teaching. I'll be darned. Which is why
I'm
with you and with
(07:58):
pastor Bob
are organizing this new group in town called
Brood
Theology. And that's our topic. That's what we're
gonna talk about. Exactly. Yes. Yes. Your turn,
Joni. My turn?
Well, first off, I wanna go back 48
years old going into the seminary.
And I I love that story because when
when I believe, when God or whatever name
(08:19):
you put on your divine being, when God
calls,
you only have one answer, and it's Yes.
Yes. And and you did that. Yes.
Well, he had to yell. He'd been whispering
before,
but he had to yell this time around.
Mhmm. Mhmm. But you heard it loud and
clear. You heard it loud and clear. Oh
my gosh. Oh my gosh. Well, perfect. And
I tell you, it's an honor and a
(08:40):
privilege to have you here and to also
talk about our new thing for our community.
And can you first talk about why this
idea came to you for running this Brood
Theology?
I was at our annual
assembly for Lutherans in Oregon.
Well, for ELCA Lutherans, I won't get down
(09:01):
that rabbit hole. There are a lot of
flavors of Lutherans. Mhmm. And
let's just say that this is the flavor
that I like best. Okay. And me too
because it's so gay friendly. It is gay
friendly. Absolutely.
To jump way ahead,
we believe that God
is open to
and calls
(09:23):
everybody
regardless
of their
sexual orientation,
their ability, their disability,
their preferences, their needs.
God calls each of us.
Yes.
And so
at that, there were tables around the perimeter
of the meeting, and there were people who
were explaining what they were all about, and
(09:44):
there was a retired Lutheran minister who had
a table with Brood Theology.
And he's got four of his former interns
helping him, and they have compiled
a huge list of potential topics to talk
about
and a huge
background research
to show how you can apply
(10:06):
biblical knowledge
to everyday questions. Oh, wow. And that's been
my call
as a pastor
is to take the assigned or recommended texts
and say,
what can this mean for the people I
serve
this week?
And that's how I approach
(10:28):
my teaching. How can I serve, how can
I teach
the people
that I have in front of me now
and these days on the Internet?
Yes.
How can I take this ancient text and
say, for us today,
this is what it can mean for each
of us?
And that's that's my that's my joy.
(10:51):
Right on. That's my joy. Right on. And
that ties into the show, joyously free. Because
when you find your joy, you just you
just let it out. Yeah. You let it
out. And so those topics let let's go
back. The word brood, a lot of people
hear that word and they're thinking, how do
you spell it and what does it mean?
Can you help us with that? Yeah. It's
it's not brood as in scowling
(11:12):
and and being sad. It's b r e
w
e d. It's when you brew something.
You and I were talking the other day,
and we were talking about brewing beer,
which a lot of people do in their
homes even. Yes. It's a few simple ingredients,
a little water, a little grain,
a little yeast, a little hope,
(11:33):
and you end up with something that for
most folks is tasty, delicious, and you also
brew tea.
I brew a lot of coffee in my
life. Okay.
And
so
it's taking two common ordinary things
and putting them together
(11:53):
to make something that's pleasing
to those who drink it. That's an awesome
and that's what we're gonna do with these
groups and these conversations that we're gonna have.
And one of the locations that we do
this is on the first Saturday of the
month at the Chetco brewery
(12:13):
so we can brew
conversation,
open mindedness,
the ability to really listen to somebody's
not just their brain and their thoughts, but
their heart.
Right. Is that true? That's true. In fact,
it's the combination
of heart and mind,
of spirit
and wisdom
that you combine together, and we pray
(12:36):
that people who participate
will have an experience
of
after these conversations,
they go, Oh,
I never thought of it that way. Mhmm.
But it makes sense. Mhmm. Especially for me
where I am today. Mhmm. And I wanna
go back to your introduction because that's very,
(12:58):
very important. The
conversations
that we will have,
we have some ground rules
and
they overlap with what you noticed. No bullying.
No talking over.
Be considerate
and kind and generous.
Even if you say, Oh, that person may
(13:20):
see it that way,
I see it a little different.
That's great. In fact, one shines light on
the other and the reflection back enlightens both
people in a conversation.
Excellent. Yes. And we so need that in
our world today because so many people think
of it as a a right and a
wrong or the old fashioned term of black
(13:42):
and white,
but it can be all encompassing,
all inclusive.
Yes.
Yes.
And,
black and white
only gets you so far.
I read a daily meditation
Mhmm. From a Franciscan
(14:04):
monk
who reminds us that change only comes
after great love
or great suffering.
And so,
change is
possible. It is sometimes
very painful.
But on the other side of that,
(14:27):
you discover
a deeper understanding of yourself
and experience a deeper understanding of the divine
in you,
and you're better at noticing the divine
around you.
As I drove from home down here for
this interview, I was thinking about
(14:47):
I was driving along the North Bank Of
The Chetco, and I'm going,
only an awesome
God
could have created
this much beauty
and variety
as we as I drove along
that river that we all take for granted.
Mhmm. Except when it's gonna flood.
(15:09):
But
the purpose of this is to help people
understand
they are not
chained
to a
rigid
literalism,
but are freed
to think deeply
about important questions.
And even
(15:29):
we may
come to different conclusions,
but we know in our heart and our
mind
that we have experienced the divine guiding us
through that process
of seeing. Yes. Oh my well said, well
said. There's your there's your homily lesson for
the day. Also known in the in the
(15:51):
radio world, a mic drop. That was phenomenal.
Oh my gollies. Oh my gollies. You know?
And and with that spirit and that wisdom
that happens
in the midst of change,
how about we delve into, if you don't
mind, some of the topics
that will probably be addressed at the Broad
Theology? Sure. Okay? Sure.
(16:13):
I'm just gonna read a couple things from
the list here. And if something grabs your
fancy, Jim, jump into it and give us
just a a couple key points of what's
going through your mind and your heart, your
wisdom and your spirit. Okay?
One is
afterlife, resurrection,
Christian nationalism,
climate and creation care,
(16:36):
difficult conversations.
Oh, let's let's And how about one about
who's God?
Anyway.
Yeah.
Go back to that very first one because
that
Afterlife and resurrection.
I was talking with a fellow the other
day,
and he was saying that
(16:57):
virtually every one of the world's
great religions
says something about
an afterlife.
And for me today,
it's especially important.
I lost a dear, dear friend
over the weekend.
(17:18):
And I had,
thanks
be to God,
that he and I had a wonderful conversation
just a couple of days before he passed.
And
I know
that he was an important part of my
life,
and I was an important part of his
(17:39):
life. Mhmm.
And we got to know each other driving
around rural Washington County, Texas
delivering Meals on Wheels.
Wow. We would spend
more than an hour every week just cruising
around, sharing stories, and he told me about
this part of the world that I had
never known before.
(18:00):
And we we both loved our time together.
Mhmm. Mhmm. And what a great memory. Yeah.
Yeah. What a great memory. But at the
same time, the change, the,
that he's no longer here physically Right. That
he can't talk to you, can't pick up
the phone, not able to text you, you
still know spirit wise about a resurrection.
(18:21):
Yes.
And
beyond that, I refuse to speculate.
It's way above my pay grade.
But you believe. I believe. People used to
When I was pastoring congregations,
people would ask me, well, is so and
so in heaven? Or, you know, and I
would answer, it's way above my pay grade.
(18:41):
Yeah. And I would also say that's not
for you or I
to decide.
It is how the divine that surrounds us
and the divine that was within that person
manifest
and come to a rest together.
Wow.
It made me think
(19:02):
that,
again, as I I think I don't play
the radio when I drive, I just I
think. Mhmm. And I imagine that
the divine within us can be manifest.
No one can look into my soul.
I know you, Joni, but you can't see
that deep. Uh-huh. Uh-huh. But you can see
how I live,
(19:23):
how I talk,
how I react.
You can see the manifestations,
the public face
of who I am.
And we can see that in other people.
Sometimes though,
that public face
hides some deep pain. Mhmm. Mhmm. And We
really don't know people's stories. When you don't
know their story. And then sometimes we assume
(19:46):
or presume
or make a judgment call when we don't
know the whole story and the whole picture.
Oh, that is so true
and often so sad. Mhmm. We jump to
conclusions
based on some external factor
that may have been important in our life
at one point
and means something entirely different
(20:08):
to the other person. Yes.
So
this Brood theology
is designed to have us share our stories,
our hopes, our dreams,
our sorrows,
our fears
in a place that's safe, in
a place that gives us a common reference
(20:29):
point, I. E, the Bible,
and in a place where we can
then
have some time
to process
what we've heard that day.
Yeah.
That's so important. Day. You just said that
day. That day. Because things happen to us
(20:51):
and with us and for us and within
us every single day. And so that daily
connection is so important. Now what happens, Jim,
if somebody doesn't believe in the Bible? Can
they still come to a brewed theology?
Oh,
of course.
I don't believe in the Bible. Mhmm. I
believe that the Bible is what has been
(21:11):
given to me as a Christian,
as my guide,
as my reference point,
as the start
of my discerning
the divine
within me and around me. I don't believe
in a book,
I believe in a God.
A God that is
(21:32):
so big
that my puny
human mind
will never
fully
comprehend
god.
But I get some street signs along the
way. Wow. And everybody, if you could see
Jim right now, his eyes are a little
watery. You could tell the emotions have hit.
He is fired up over here, and I'm
(21:54):
I'm here with fist pumps going, yes. Yes.
Yes. You know? So the emotion
involved with that God, not a book,
is profound.
Yes. And it sounds like you had a
great profound relationship with this friend of yours
that just died. Yes. Just one of many
people probably that you have connected with in
your life.
(22:14):
Yes. Yes.
And, you know, we didn't do a lot
of God talk
driving around in rural Washington County. First of
all, you have to be careful because the
roads are narrow. Mhmm. And you wouldn't
the roads are narrow, and the addresses are
obscure.
Wow. So, but
but what we shared together
was our life experiences.
(22:37):
And,
what we shared together was our life experiences,
and
I could tell he was a member of
a congregation I served, and he was there
every week
like clockwork
until he got to the point where he
could no longer come. Mhmm. So I could
tell that God played a big part in
his life, and I could tell by the
(22:57):
way he treated other people
that that was how God
was manifest
in him and through him
in the way he treated others.
Right on. Right on. Beautiful. You know, and
and if if that's the way it it
happens in that person's life, that's the way
it happens, and each of us are unique
that way in how it may be. So
(23:18):
it may not be a church that we
find this God.
Is that true?
Church helps,
but
sadly, having read
all you know, at least glanced through all
of your books,
church can be hurtful
if people who are already there
decide that they have the one and only
(23:39):
answer.
And I think that's
kind of what helped me,
quite honestly be a much better interim minister
Uh-huh. Than a Sunday after Sunday parish minister
because my
upbringing of moving around
helped me
learn how to get to know people quickly.
(24:01):
And that was a big plus in the
last half of my ministry.
Wow. That's really cool. So And and that's
and that's a key point, to get to
know people. Yes. Get to know a person
personally. Yes. Oh, my I have gotten to
know you better just in this twenty, twenty
five minutes of conversation, Jim, and and I
thank you for that big time.
What final comments would you like to leave
(24:23):
for the listeners today at KZZH
and KCIW?
Be open.
Fear not.
Come. And if you
don't feel inspired,
you don't need to come back. We don't
take attendance
and we don't charge anything.
(24:43):
Exactly. This is an opportunity to get to
know a wider circle
of people.
And where do they go? When do they
go? Where do they go? They go on
the first
Saturday of the month
at 12:30
to Chetco brewery,
and they go on the first Wednesday
at 05:30
to the Chetco
(25:04):
community library.
So if you don't yes. That's
that's where to go. And it's when to
go. Everybody and all people
no matter what no matter what. And so
just come, enjoy, be safe, have some rude
conversation.
I'll bring my coffee. There you go. There
you go. Oh, thank you, beautiful listeners on
(25:24):
the gorgeous coast of Southern Oregon and Northern
California for being with us in this joyously
free manner today. We hope you have been
inspired,
challenged, and have enjoyed the stories, the tips,
the hopes, the love, and the joys with
our special special guest, semi retired,
Jim Abbott,
and me, none better than Joni Lindenmeyer.
It's been a phenomenal day. Thank you so
(25:45):
much, Jim. Thank you so much. From the
top of my heart, I thank you. Thank
you, KZAW
one hundred point seven. Tom is on the
radio today. Of course, we have the team
of Candice and Rose and Mike for making
this happen. We also wanna thank KZZH,
Nate Dawg, for having us with you today
too. We'll be found on kciw.org
or kzzh.
You can leave us any kind of moment
(26:05):
that you want for leaving us a comment
or a suggestion or whatever. You can get
a hold of me, of course, with my
books at the library or Barnes and Noble
or wherever the books are sold, but I
would really recommend that that you go for
these three books that Jim also referred to.
So any thoughts or feelings, we look forward
to hearing from you. We're gonna end with
our normal mantra, which is besides having a
(26:27):
great day, smile big and wear bright colors.
A lot of things are happening this week.
And let's give a shout out to Troy
for Rainbow Connections who airs on Friday afternoons
at 03:00,
KCIW.
Once again, smile big and wear bright colors.
Thank you, Jim. Thank you.
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