Mike Hammer’s Vegas Adventure

Magician and comedian Mike Hammer takes center stage, unveiling the secrets behind his 13-year run on the Las Vegas strip.

The post Mike Hammer’s Vegas Adventure appeared first on Discourse in Magic.

Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:00):
Hello, my friends, and welcome to a brand
new episode of Discourse in Magic with Mike
Hammer.
Mike is an amazing magician and comedian
who has been doing his show in Vegas for 13
years.
He is also not only hilarious and not only
a little bit on the dirty side in terms of
a performer, but he has had an entirely big

(00:22):
and interesting career in different types
of magic, from colleges to corporates to
birthday parties, to so many things and
more and he walks us through not only his
journey, but his tips on making a show work,
as well as how to be funny and a little bit
dirty in your magic.
This was an incredible episode with an
incredible magician, and you're gonna love

(00:42):
it as much as I did.
Please enjoy a lovely episode with the one
and only Mike Hammer.
Hello, my friends, and welcome to a brand
new episode of Discourse in Magic.

(01:02):
My name is Jonah Babins and we are here
with the one and only Mike Hammer.
Mike, how you doing?
How?

Speaker 2 (01:08):
are you doing?
I'm good, I said early in Vegas.

Speaker 1 (01:11):
I guess it is early in Vegas.
You guys are, you guys are, I don't know.
Every time I try to schedule something with
someone from Vegas, it's a.
You know they're like they do shows that
end at 1am and I don't wake up until so.
You know I got a show at night.
It's hard, it's hard to schedule.
So thanks so much for taking the time to do
this.
I love your magic.
I think you're hilarious.

(01:32):
We'll talk more about getting to that in a
minute and I'm just excited to hear about
like what it's been like, you know, doing
the show in Vegas and getting to some
details of the magic and some of the
business stuff.
But let's start at the beginning.
How did you get started in magic?
How did this sort of find you?
I?

Speaker 2 (01:46):
guess it's sort of the way most guys did.
You know, you get a little magic kit when
you're like 8, 10 years old, something like
that, and I made the mistake of just still
continuing with it.
But no, I was always entertained by magic.
I saw a magician perform when I was young,
and that's usually what happens.
And then your parents buy you a magic kit.

(02:07):
You start imagining yourself.
At the time I imagined myself being on the
Tonight Show.
It was with Johnny Carson back in the day,
I don't know.
Wow.

Speaker 1 (02:14):
You're older than I thought.

Speaker 2 (02:15):
It's kind of like the Jimmy Fallon of today
people, but funny, yeah, sorry, jimmy.
And so you know it just sort of took off
from there and then I started getting into
card tricks and I remember the first book
being the Royal Road to Card Magic, which
was fantastic.

Speaker 1 (02:32):
I didn't really, you know it was tough to
learn everything then when you're 10 years
old, but you know it had some good stuff
though, and I know you've been doing your
Vegas show for 13 years, but there's a big
chapter in the middle there between being
10 and getting into it and then getting a
Vegas show.
How did you like start taking this thing
seriously, because that's always.

(02:53):
I mean, it's a crazy thing, right To just
decide magician.

Speaker 2 (03:01):
Like how did how did you make that work?
So I remember I did my first magic show at
13 years old.
It was for the neighbors down the block at
a birthday party, and I think I got paid
geez like I think I want to say $10.
It was something.

Speaker 1 (03:13):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (03:15):
And $10 was still, you know, not good, yeah,
but I'm almost hesitant to say five bucks,
but it was something worth.
And I remember I had parakeets.
I picked up and I did like the dove pan.
I had no idea what I was doing.
I'm like buying everything.
I mean it was, it was fun, you know, they
enjoyed it.
But you know I'm working with kids not much
younger than me, you know, and it was

(03:37):
literally I walked down the street.
It was like, you know, not even it was the
same block, it was a few houses down.
So I'm doing magic for them.
And I'm like, oh, wow, this, I can make a
lot of money doing this, because I'm from
chicago originally and we shoveled a lot of
snow, it's so I try to shovel snow for
money and I'm like, no, this magic thing's
a lot easier.
So, but I would do that.

(03:58):
And then I just stuck with it all through
school and I did do shows.
Uh, you know, once one person finds, oh,
you can entertain my kids for that cheap,
they'll hire you, you know, and you get
hired.
So there was a point my mom would drive me,
because if I was a couple blocks away, I
had to carry stuff, you know.
So my mother would drive me to the other

(04:18):
parties and I would do shows for those
people as well.
And it just started picking up and I always
had sort of a knack for entertaining people.
I don't even know if the magic was that
good yet it was good for them, but I think
they were just entertained because I would
joke around with the kids.

Speaker 1 (04:34):
Was there like something proactive that you
like.
At some point you're like okay, I want this
to be a career, like you sending out
mailers or you knocking on doors, like, or
it just happened organically so at that
time it was organically, just because the
neighbors would talk to neighbors and so on
and so forth and it would.

Speaker 2 (04:52):
It would carry on.
So that was pretty good.
But where it got very difficult was a
little later in life.
I think I was about 20 but I was in college
and then I did do magic through college.
But then when you need to do the jobs for a
living or make money at it, that's when it

(05:13):
becomes difficult.
Now you've got to send out mailings and at
the time we did.
We did.
I don't think I sent it out, I think I
dropped them off at people's homes
originally around the neighborhood
Absolutely ridiculous flyers and stuff like
that.
I put an ad in a local, one of the local
magazines, for local newspaper actually at
the time One of the presses, pioneer Press

(05:35):
or whatever they're all called something
like that.
But I put an ad out of those and I had the
hokey drawing of the rabbit out of a hat
and I did get calls from that and so I
would get shows from that and I had the
hokey drawing of the rabbit out of a hat
it's still and I did get calls from that
and so I would get shows.

Speaker 1 (05:51):
From that there was a lot of word of mouth,
and was this still mostly like kids shows,
or were you doing something different?

Speaker 2 (05:55):
So I'll say it was family shows at that
point, because I would do some kids shows
and then I did family shows.
Where it got difficult was once you you've
already extended your like local community.
As far as you know, we didn't have reach
like we do now.
We didn't have social media, we didn't have,
we didn't even have cell phones.
So you know, back in the day was pagers, so

(06:17):
yeah, that's crazy.
So everything was you know, you have to
answer that phone that's sitting in your
house.
And so it was really interesting because I
did get some notoriety.
I got some notoriety, but it really it was
a struggle at some point because, like
there were so many times I just I'd go

(06:38):
broke in this business.
It's just because you try something new,
like, okay, I'm going to get out of doing
family shows and I'm going to go and do,
say, colleges.
So I ended up doing colleges a few years
later and they're good, like when it's in
season.

Speaker 1 (06:55):
But then your summer comes up and you're
like, okay, now I'm broke, and so there'd
always be something, and were you doing
like NACA and stuff like that, or were you
like sending mailers?
I did NACA and stuff like that, or were you
like sending mailers.

Speaker 2 (07:05):
I did NACA a couple of years later into the
college circuit.
I tried it all on my own originally, yeah,
and then I got hooked up with an agency and
I did my first NACA convention yes, naca,

(07:25):
which was because one of the agents.
What happened was I went to the convention
and I was always a little bit louder and
obnoxious than most of the other guys.
So we had rented one of those booths you
know an Eka booth to perform and a lot of
people would be behind their booth and be
whatever, handing out candy and doing some
small demonstrations of close-up magic or
whatnot.
I stood in front of the booth, which was
kind of illegal.
Anyway, you know, you have to stay within
your things.
I'd be in the front and I gathered people

(07:46):
around.
I would be basically doing a show, you know,
in the booth.
And we got in trouble and you know, because
the other agencies were, you know, pissed
off at us.
So they're like, and they were in charge,
we didn't realize, like they ran NACA,
basically they're on the board and all that,
they're on the board and all that.
So they didn't like that we were getting
work.
So I went up to say we, because it was me

(08:06):
myself and a buddy of mine that didn't do
magic.
But I hired him as the manager, you know,
and we had no idea what we were doing
initially, but he knew that he was taking
people's information, writing it all down
while I was entertaining them.
So one of the agents that complained but we
knew he was in charge we went up to him.
He said well.

(08:26):
We said to him well, why don't you hire us,
you know, why don't you bring us on?
And we could be doing this for you?
And he did.
And so he just did it, I think, just to
stop us.
He didn't even like us, you know, he didn't
like me at all because I was a little
obnoxious, you know.
I just I walked in there and think, oh, I'm
going to take over here, you know, and
there were so many of these people that are

(08:48):
already doing the circuit for years.
They didn't like that, you know.
But what am I going to do?
I don't know, no one knows me.
So I was just trying to impress the
students and so he took us on, but we did,
as you probably know, but some people might
not know called a showcase, which is where
they have a couple of nights where they'll
have maybe 20 acts perform on stage, but

(09:10):
it's in a big venue, so there's a couple
thousand students watching on stage and
it's a little bit different than you don't
have time to build up your act.
You're only doing a few minutes and so
you've really got to hit them hard right
when you come out of the gate.

(09:30):
But the problem with my style I was very
edgy with comedy and magic and sometimes it
takes a little time to build up the act,
but I'm like, oh no, I'm just going to hit
them immediately.
And they hated me.
I got booed and it was bad and the agent
fired me just cause he's like, oh, you are
not ready for this, you know, yeah, and I

(09:50):
think it's just, I just made a bad choice.
I started like I pick on people during my
act typically, but I started I picked on a
couple, you know, a couple of the girls and
so the audience turned on me, cause they're
females and you know you can pick on a guy
a little easier.
But it was just one of those weird things.
My whole act just bombed.
I think we got like 15 minutes or maybe 20,

(10:11):
I'm not sure exactly, but I did close with
a razor blade swallowing bit and that
worked.
Of course it was silent, it was to music
and you know it was built in magic.
No comedies.

Speaker 1 (10:24):
After this, after the colleges?
I mean, you did that for, I assume, a
couple of years.
I did colleges for 10 years, 10 years.
Okay, did you go right from there to Vegas
or did you do something else?

Speaker 2 (10:34):
No.
So I started a team show with another guy.
It was a comedy magic team called Spike and
Hammer, and I'm Hammer and he was Spike and
which is really funny because at the time
we went and talked to Jeff McBride was in
Arizona and we were in Arizona,

(10:54):
coincidentally.
So we hired him to help us out with our
characters and he had me being the straight
man and the other guy being the funny guy,
even though I was always doing the comedy
the whole time.
I'm like, all right, I'll try it.
He goes yeah, you guys need to be different.
You're both trying to do the same thing and
you're both running each other over.
So he helped us a bit with the character

(11:15):
study.
We didn't know characters, we're just, you
know, obnoxious, doing our own thing.
I mean, I had studied, I did acting lessons

(11:40):
and things like that, so I understood those
characters.
But in a sense of comedy magic, I'm
thinking we're just going to go out there
and do whatever we want.
And then we actually got hired for a.
So we ended up moving to Vegas together
because we, with that too, you know, we'd
get some work.
And then in between the work it was, you
know, it was just it's a tough business,
you know you gotta keep trying.
So we went to Vegas and we wind up getting
hired to perform in this like little strip
club was the craziest thing.
We did our act and Teller showed up, and

(12:02):
the reason?
Well, I know Teller, right, a fan of Teller,
those are our heroes.
You know he was friends with another guy
that saw our act and really liked the idea
of the act and he's like oh, apollo Robbins,
that's.
You know Apollo, yeah, he's amazing.
So, apollo's friends with Teller.
They came to the show.
Teller actually enjoyed it, but we're like

(12:22):
it was.
Just, it was a little rough.
I'll be honest with you.
Well, we're just trying dirty jokes on
purpose because, thinking it's a strip club,
we should have just stuck to our act.
But we're over the top, just, you know,
whatever, just doing things, inappropriate,
I'm sure, but it was fun, you know, it was
interesting.

(12:44):
And then we started getting a whole bunch
of corporate work out here and trade show
work and that lasted for that act.
We did that for about eight, nine years.

Speaker 1 (12:49):
Okay.
So it actually worked out.
It really did.
And again, when you were out there doing
trade shows, you're doing this strip club,
turning it into corporate work.
Is that because people are seeing you, or
is it because you got an agent, or is it
because you got you know, like well, how
did that happen?

Speaker 2 (13:06):
So in Vegas and between my, I kind of
jumped the gun a bit, because before I ever
made it to Vegas, back home I did
restaurant work and I did a lot of
restaurant work, which really I recommend
to anybody, even if you want to do a stage
show, because it serves a few purposes.

(13:26):
One it it teaches you to interact with
people, and pretty much interact with
people that don't want to see you most of
the time yeah, because of course you walk
up to a table and they're just like you
know we don't need you here, but, but I but
also it it.
It hones your skills as far as speaking
goes with with people.

(13:47):
Your magic, of course, gets better.
But also I get a lot of work, private work,
out of doing the restaurant work and I did
I would.
There was a time I was doing five
restaurants a night, so five different
restaurants a night.
Yeah, I just got like how does that even
make sense?
I would just go straight like Monday
through, you know, friday I would just be
doing restaurants.

Speaker 1 (14:08):
And on the weekends I would get.
You're saying five a night, not five a week.
No, I'm sorry, but my apologies.
Five restaurants a week.
Okay, you said five a night.

Speaker 2 (14:15):
I was like oh no, no, that would be
impossible, my apologies.
Yeah, five a week.

Speaker 1 (14:19):
Basically every night of the week, Monday
to Friday.

Speaker 2 (14:21):
Every night of the week.
Yeah, I mean, that got a little tiring, but
I really did pick up a lot of private work
from there.
And then there was a time I went before I
got my first restaurant, though I went and
saw a guy.
Of course no one knows his name, Eugene
Berger.
No one knows that name.
So Eugene was also from Chicago.

(14:42):
So I had seen him when I was younger, when
I was about also 13 years old, 14 years old,
and I went and saw Eugene.
I would make my parents drag him to a
restaurant called the Great Godfrey Daniels.
Every time they asked me where we'd want to
eat, we'd go there.
They're like okay, so I got to sort of know
Eugene.
He was a really nice guy and I spoke with
him, but I just fell in love with the

(15:06):
closeup magic from what I watched.
Him, do you know, bought all his books, I
think.
At the time he had like two things written,
but you know.
But I'm like, oh, this is really cool.
And then I realized he liked other
performers, like matt shulian and so on and
so forth, bought third books.
I did anything I could to learn.
You know all this.
You know sleight of hand, close-up magic
and a lot about misdirection, actually,
which was a strength of his, and so he

(15:28):
actually moved on from that restaurant at
some point.
And I went into the owner, like when I
found out he left and I, you know, I told
them, I said I can do this.
And here let me show you what I could do
and I go.
Well, watch, and I went up to a table and,
you know, and fortunately it killed and
they loved it, you know, and they hired me

(15:50):
to work there.

Speaker 1 (15:51):
So then I and this was this restaurant
period.
This was in Chicago, not Vegas In.

Speaker 2 (15:54):
Chicago yes.

Speaker 1 (15:56):
In.

Speaker 2 (15:56):
Chicago.
But I did that for years and I was at the
time I was doing restaurants.
I was like, what was I about?
18 years old, 19 years old, 20, 21.
I did restaurants for quite a few years.

Speaker 1 (16:07):
So you did kids parties and then family
parties and then restaurants and then
colleges and then corporate and trade show.
So you did a whole lot of things.
I think you know you got a show running in
Vegas for 13 years.
I think the next big question is like
there's a lot of people we'll talk about
whether it's the dream or not in a minute,
but a lot of people are like a show in
Vegas you know my name in lights like

(16:29):
that's the thing that I want.
How did that come about?
Did you pitch a venue?
Did someone find you?
How did that happen?

Speaker 2 (16:38):
So you know, it's so funny how things
happen.
We got to Vegas as a team show and we're
doing the team show.
And we got to Vegas as a team show and
we're doing the team show and you asked how
we got a lot of our bookings At the time
here they didn't call them agents.
They were like destination management, I
guess, agencies, event planners essentially.
And we got in with all of the event
planners in town Because you did something

(17:06):
or because they heard about it.
Well, they hired us.
But they hired us because there were a lot
of ended up doing a lot of like we'll say,
free shows, charity events out here first,
but the agencies would put them together.
Oh, we've got this, would you be interested
in helping?
We donated our time just because we figured
we've got to get ourselves out there, and
so we ended up booking some uh, some shows
off of the event planners.
And plus the other guy who played Spike his
name is Rob.

(17:27):
He still does close-up magic to this day.
He's very good, but he was a great salesman.
So he would also call people up and call
these different companies up and get us
hired, and some of them we were a little
too edgy for, you know, and this was like
years ago, so this was about 15 years ago.
So now I I mean it would be really
inappropriate.

(17:47):
But yeah, we were doing jokes like I'd say
I'd say to right, it was very, very weird.
Like I would do the setup and I'd say I
would produce a, a shoe, and it would be
like a a six inch high heel female shoe.
And I say and I'd say to Rob or Spike at
the time I'd say what is this?

(18:09):
And he goes you said you wanted a whore's
shoe, like a whore's shoe.
I go no, I said I wanted a whore's shoe,
but these jumps, we're doing this at
corporate thinking.
This is appropriate, you know.
So we did that for a while but then I got
the show.
Well, originally we split up our act for
personal reasons.
He had some other things going on

(18:30):
family-wise, and so we we split that off.
But now I'm on my own and I wound up
talking to.
There was a guy that ran a comedy club in
the venue that I'm actually at right now
and it it was in the casino Four Queens
Hotel and Casino downtown on Fremont Street,
yeah.
And he said yeah, you know what, if you can
do a show here at three in the afternoon,

(18:51):
you can use the room and I'm like, oh, this
is going to be great, awesome.
Fremont Street this is, you know, great,
which is a downtown area of Las Vegas, not
quite the strip, but exciting when you want
to work, you know.
So I never realized how difficult it was to
run a show at three in the afternoon in
Vegas.
Of course People aren't ready to watch the

(19:11):
show.
They haven't woken up yet.
I mean, they're still going for brunch.
Yeah, they haven't even woken up yet.
Well, the only other act that was in the
afternoon at that time was Matt King did
his show.
But whatever business model he had was
great.
But whatever business model he had was
great.
I'm downtown and I'm like I was outside
doing street magic to get people into my
show and I'm actually handing out like

(19:32):
coupons that I think they were like $9.95.
It's like a show and a free drink.
It was the most insane thing, the problem
was I had not done street magic before and
I really give a lot of credit to these guys
that do it is not easy, you would think,
for someone that could be louder and
whatever and call people up it would be.
The problem is, if I don't do a good job,

(19:55):
they're not going to come and see the show.
If I do a great job, they're not going to
come and see the show because they've just
seen the show.
You know what I mean.
So I'm trying to talk them into coming into
a show and it was just really difficult.
And it was even harder to get the people to
gather.
I always tell these street magicians that,
like, I really admire them because it's

(20:17):
such a difficult thing, especially when you
know you have to do it.
You need the money, you know to survive, to
get someone in a venue.
It's tough and it wasn't about putting a
hat out or getting people, it was about a
one-on-one sales.
You had to try to get people sold as hey,
why don't you guys come see me now?
And it was really hard and street magic's
kind of.
You know you have to pick the right tricks

(20:39):
to do and it's just it's, it's very, very I
I really again, and I really credit these
guys that could do a good job at it, and
there are some guys that are just fantastic
at it, but it just wasn't my thing, you
know.
But so the first two years I was at this
venue, I mean I'd have people, I don't know,
maybe.

(20:59):
Well, the first year I probably had 10 to
12 people a night in the room.
It was tough, yeah, especially when you're
picking volunteers and so.
But I stuck with it and I was making my
money not from the show but from doing the
corporate work, because I was pretty good
at that.
So I I was doing corporate work.
You, you know you might do but a trade show,

(21:19):
so that I would pay a couple thousand
dollars, whatever it would be, and and then
corporate was pretty good.
I think at the time it was like four or
five hundred bucks, but you know it was
enough to survive.
So I would do that.
And then the show, but it was.
It was hard.
And then about two years into it I started
really picking up, like some audiences we
were doing the at the time there were local
like house seats, which is free comp

(21:40):
tickets for some of the locals if they join
a service.
Local like house seats, which is free comp
tickets for some of the locals if they join
a service.
So we were like putting them in the room
but at least they'd be in the room, right,
you know.
So at least you'd have 20 people a night.
But then it took a while to build it up and
now we don't do any comps at all.
But this is many years later.
I've been there 13 years, but it's a lot of

(22:01):
word of mouth at the time.
Well, the advantage now, you know, versus
years ago, is the internet.
You know, you just have there's all these
outlets now, yeah, it's not that they
didn't have internet, right.
It's just they didn't have things like
tripadvisor, things like yelp.

Speaker 1 (22:17):
They didn't have those things and so even
like these things, like vegascom, I mean, I
don't know how much that that kind of thing
helped.
They're great, yeah, yeah, like they.
Those types of things help people figure
out what to do there and what to do yeah so
so we're on vegascom and you know the
challenge on things like that are.

Speaker 2 (22:37):
So now you have to be good, because a lot
of those are looking at reviews now.
So if you're walking around with three
stars, they're not going to come and see
your show.
And when I started my show, you know,
because of my style again, because it's
heavy in comedy and making fun of people or
picking on the audience you'd have some
people that would give you one star just
because they're like, oh my God, he picked

(22:57):
on me.

Speaker 1 (22:58):
He'd be a Trump joke or whatever.

Speaker 2 (22:59):
Yeah, or anything, well, anything.
Well, it wasn't trump ben, but it was.
It was always something.
Yeah, yeah, well, you know what it was.
It was kind of it was more he's making, he
he's picking on, because I'll pick on
everybody.
I don't really differentiate between.
You know if someone is in a wheelchair or
not I will look at someone and say, well,
why are they in a wheelchair to try and

(23:19):
assess that right?
But if it, you know I'm not going to pick
on someone with, like, a mental illness or
any mental condition.
I'm now, of course, because you know I just
said that's like low-hanging fruit.
You know, that's not the, that's just
terrible.
You know I wouldn't do that.
But but a lot of times, a lot of these
people that you would assume you wouldn't

(23:40):
pick on, nobody does talk to or nobody does
pick up.
So now they're like why are you alienating
me?
You know so, um, but I handle that pretty.
Let me.

Speaker 1 (23:49):
Let me ask a question on that.
You know, I saw you perform a couple years
ago at Blackpool and I was laughing my
little heart out at you just ripping the
audience apart.
I don't remember what it was specifically
you were making fun of, but I was just
losing my marble.
And then I'm sure you got wind that the

(24:11):
next day or so there was an angry old
person in the Blackpool Facebook group, you
know, yelling and screaming about how could
they bear to bring this guy in, like why
would they do this kind of thing?
And first of all, I would just love some
commentary on that, but you don't have to
specifically, but like that.
But the other thing is like I'm sure you
face this kind of thing a lot like you are

(24:32):
edgy and you you you know.
Comedy, especially this type of edgy comedy,
is like sort of about, you know, maybe not
crossing the line but approaching the line
and maybe even dancing over it a little bit,
and I'm sure that you have had to deal with
this kind of thing a lot.
So I'd love to hear about, like, how do you
handle it when either you cross a line
you're like, oh crap, you know, I really

(24:52):
shouldn't have said that.
Or if you're like you're like that was a
killer show, and then you've got three very,
very angry people and I just had this
happen recently.
I'm not quite that edgy, but I had this
person just going up and sending us emails
and I'm going to destroy you and all this.
And I was like sweating all afternoon
trying to handle it.
How do you handle these kinds of things

(25:13):
Like?

Speaker 2 (25:15):
so let's just talk about Blackpool real
quick, because that's a great example.
I did two shows in Blackpool and then I did
a what you had seen.
I did an award ceremony, yeah, and it
wasn't an award ceremony, it was a
competition Right ceremony.
Yeah, it wasn't an award ceremony, it was a
competition, right, right, yeah.
And so what happened was the shows went

(25:35):
great.
I mean the shows themselves it's my show
it's my style it's the magic and everything
went great.
But I did this MC spot and I wasn't doing
magic.

Speaker 1 (25:45):
That's the one I'm talking about.
Yes, yes.

Speaker 2 (25:48):
And I wasn't doing magic.
That's the one I'm talking about.
Yes, yes, and I wasn't doing magic.
But what happens is and emceeing is a whole
different ballgame too, especially, you
know, because it's not really about you,
it's about the acts, you know, and so I'm
not doing magic.
But I asked them how long are the act, how
long between each act, so I know how much
time I have to do.

(26:11):
Well, they weren't sure, because they they
had never done this before.
It was the first year they were trying it,
and it took a long time between each act to
get set up.

Speaker 1 (26:18):
It was anywhere from some of them, 10 to 12
minutes, yeah, which is forever, because it
was like these crazy fism acts where they
had to set up these, like you know, oh,
absolutely, yeah, yeah, and they were great
acts and it took such a long time to set up
everything had to set up these, like you
know, oh, absolutely, yeah, yeah, and they
were great acts and it took such a long
time to set up everything and to be so
precise.

Speaker 2 (26:33):
So I'm out there Now.
I've got to just basically kill time, yeah,
and so I resort to what I do, which is
picking on the audience.
Right, and I picked on everybody, but it
was a bit much for some of the people.
Like, there was a guy, there was a guy, you
know, a wheelchair, that was off, way off
to the side, and I like, and I went over to

(26:55):
him and I went off the stage, I left the
stage and I started pushing the guy towards
the center of the stage, not on stage, but
off stage, so he could see better.
So he could see better.
I said, sir, in America we have rights.
Like, I don't think they like that I go.
In America we have rights, I go.
And I pushed him, I go.
You just, you know, I said you deserve to
be able to see the show like everyone else.

(27:17):
So I wheeled him in front.
He was laughing the whole time, or the
audience is laughing too.
But that's just one example of one of the
things I did.
And the next, the next morning, I wake up
and people were laughing at the event.
But the next morning I wake up to about 50
messages on my messenger saying oh my God,

(27:38):
we loved you.
Just don't listen to what anyone said.
Just those people don't know what they're
talking about.
They have no sense of humor.
Blah, blah, blah.
It went on and on.
I had no idea what anyone was talking about
because I wasn't in the group chat.
You know, apparently there was that group
chat.
Yeah well, I'm not on it.
I mean, I get the wind of it because some
people are taking snapshots, you know,
showing me.
And I had.

(27:58):
I had a talk that morning at 11 am and I'm
like thinking god, there's not going to be
anybody there.

Speaker 1 (28:05):
I remember talking it was the busiest one I
couldn't get in, yeah well.

Speaker 2 (28:07):
I remember the producers.
I talked to themiest one.
I couldn't get in.
Yeah Well, I remember the producers.
I talked to them.
I said I don't think anyone's going to show
up for this.
We had an incident last night and they're
like, oh, okay, whatever, they were so nice.
You know they didn't.
They said, I don't know, we thought you
were funny and so, yeah, it was packed, it
was my act, it's the talk and, and it went
great.

(28:28):
And they're asking me things like oh, how
you know, do you ever feel you went too far?
And I'm like, obviously not.
I'm like no, I'm like no, and well, so your
question was how do I deal with it?
You know, it's a character that I've chosen
and you just have to ride it out.
I mean, do you want to hear that someone
hates you?
No, of course not.
It sucks.
You know that.
It's like the worst feeling, like the whole

(28:49):
audience loves you and there's the one guy
sitting up front giving you a dirty look
and that's what we focus on, you know.
No, I just know, because I've chosen that
style of entertainment, that not
everybody's going to like it and plus, you
know that was a little bit different
because it was an MC.
Different because it was an MC.
I made that choice because your only job is
to keep them awake for the next act, and I

(29:11):
knew that's what I could do, because nobody
fell asleep.
I'll tell you that, whether they like, love
me or hated me, they were paying attention.
No one left.
So outside of the Blackpool situation, I
mean I, which again, it's funny that
everybody loved it, except a handful of
really angry people that, like you know,
drew this whole explosion.

Speaker 1 (29:31):
But at the vegas show, even again, vegas
like a pretty edgy city, I mean like
there's just like tits on billboards, like
you know it's, it's a.
It's an edgy city, but still, I'm sure you
every now and again get somebody who thinks
they're going to see a magic show and then
they are like what happens there?
You get like a one-star review you get.

(29:52):
Do you just take the good with the bad?
Do you, do you try to go?
Oh, you know what, maybe I did go too far.
Or do you go like you know what, if one in
a thousand people hate it and I get 200
people a night, then I'm gonna get one bad
review, like what happens yeah.

Speaker 2 (30:04):
Well, fortunately in vegas I can get away
with a lot more.
I've kind of restructured my act a little
bit, because I used to just come out and
say I'll make fun of someone, immediately
in the front row.
I still do pick on people, but I pick on
them more as a group a little bit than I do
just the one person I just realized.
It works a little better that way.

(30:25):
So they realize oh, he's making fun of
everybody, so this works.
But I don't get, fortunately, that many bad
reviews.
I mean I might get you know 50, 60 good
reviews before I'll get one, and it's never
like usually like a wishy-washy one, it's
just like a one star, like, oh, he made fun

(30:45):
of me, yeah, he did a joke with an urn and
my family member just passed and it made me
really sad.
He shouldn't be doing things like that.
It's terrible.
Like okay, okay, what?
I don't get too many anymore.
I don't even pay attention anymore to
either.
But but I've also put more magic in my show
too, so I at least when they're coming,
they do see a lot of magic.

(31:05):
I've's the thing You've got to, like you've
got to.
The style could be comedic, but you still
have to put in magic.
You know if you're going to, I feel you
still need good magic if you're going to do
a magic show or sell it as that.

Speaker 1 (31:19):
So let's, let's talk about that.
I mean, like comedy magic is difficult and
also I think many people like if you're not
something else specifically, then you kind
of default to a comedy magician, whether
you're that funny or not and it's.
It's not easy, you know it's not.
First of all, it's hard to be legitimately

(31:39):
funny and not just taking lines that came
from other magicians and that are built in.
You know, also it's hard to be legitimately
funny and not just putting weird props on
on people and you know, doing these things
that are just like visually funny but it's
not like a comedian funny, like you're not
writing funny.

(31:59):
So it is quite difficult to have great
magic and write really well, it's almost
like you know, in magic we were all trained
to like buy great magic and then you know
to make great magic and write.
Comedy is really difficult.
What kind of advice do you have for
somebody who is trying to become or become
a better comedy magician?
Well, I studied comedians.

Speaker 2 (32:21):
so I studied comedians like don rickles,
howie mandel if you go back about 25 years,
oh how he's from your neck of the woods,
how he was hilarious he.
He was really great at improvising and he's
a lot different than what you how.
He's a little different now, his style, but
he was man it back in the day and he was

(32:42):
just so funny and I watched him and I'm
like how could he be?
He had to set this up because I thought the
improv was so good.
It was like magic to me.
I'm like how is he thinking that quick?
And you know, and then I just studied that
and years later I was like OK, ok, cool, I
got this.
It's just you got to perform over and over
and over and over again.

(33:02):
But I studied a lot of comedians to get the
comedic timing down.
And then what I would do is I would write
the material in the show based off of that,
as opposed to where I I never really looked
at a magic trick and said you know, other
back in the day, everyone you know, you
would do the paper balls over the head with
toilet paper and you'd put that the hat on

(33:23):
someone's head and underneath the hat would
be a plunger and all that.
That's that physical humor that you're
talking about, or the physical looking
humor that you're talking about, and so.
But that's kind of where the humor is
written into that trick.
I stopped doing that where I said, oh, the
trick has to be funny.
I just find I look for good magic and I try
to write humor around the magic with the

(33:44):
style of the comedy.
So the comedy should stand on its own, like
you should be able to tell a line, and the
line should be funny, regardless of whether
or not you're doing the magic.
You know, if you hand someone the magic
wand, that flaps, you know, and you're like,
oh, does that look familiar?
You know that's based on the prop.
You know it's a joke.
You say you hand it to a guy and it falls

(34:04):
apart.
It looks like you know, and so that's not
as funny.
Well, that's relying on the prop being
funny as opposed to I would just do a joke
based upon the writing of it Be funny.
I'll have someone come and sit in a chair,
for example, on stage, and they always sit
with their legs open and I would close your
legs, sir, we don't need to knock out the

(34:26):
front row with that or something like that.
You know.
So I'll go with that angle.
But I do a reference earlier in the show
where I find some older people like and
I'll say well, we're well represented, our
senior community is representing us well
tonight.
And I said bad news, folks, bingo has been
canceled.
You know so those jokes don't rely on magic.
But now, when I go back to the guy with his
legs open, comment it for him to close his

(34:47):
legs.
But then I'll look back at the older people
and I'll say hey, good news, the bingo
balls have arrived.
So I tie in the comedy.
But I'm writing all that out from a comedic
standpoint and all the callbacks, not from
a magic standpoint, if that makes sense.

Speaker 1 (35:02):
Yeah, and you keep mentioning writing,
which is like a real thing for comedians
and sometimes a thing for musicians,
musicians.
But do you literally sit out and write
jokes?
Do you just perform so much that every time
a good idea comes about, you're like let's
add that.
Let's add that, like what is obviously?
You've been doing it for a long time.
A lot of these acts have been, you know,

(35:23):
not changed terribly for a while, but what
does that part look like for you?

Speaker 2 (35:26):
I hated writing at one point in time.
I'm just one of those guys likes to go out
there.
I'm going to improvise.
That's all I wanted to do.
I'm going to improvise.
What we don't realize is improvising is not
always good.
If you don't have the right person or the
right group, your improvising is going to
be terrible.
They're not going to respond, you know, and

(35:53):
so you have to fall back on a script of
some sort.
So, but early on, I think a lot of my lines
came from just performing live, yeah, and
I'm like well, this is funny, this is funny.
And you start going from some of the stock
jokes to start, and I started ditching some
of those because then you start to hear
other guys doing these lines you know I
don't want someone to go see two shows and
I don't want to right see the how to hear
the same joke yeah, and so you know it was

(36:15):
just because there's a lot of stock lines
in this industry and and some of them are
good, and they're good for a reason, you
know, but but they also didn't fall into my
character so much.
So I started writing material that was
based more for me, but a lot of it did come
from performing originally.
But I would record my shows so I'd go back

(36:35):
and watch video because I couldn't remember
the lines.
I would say I'm like, oh, that was funny,
what was it?
And then you go back, watch a video of
yourself which so many times I would cringe.
I'm like, oh my God, why did I say that?
Or I was a little harsh there, you know.
But now I will make, I'll improve on lines
Like if you're saying, say, I'll deliver

(36:56):
something that I think is funny, but it's
only getting a laugh maybe 50% of the time
I have to get rid of it or write it so they
understand the joke.
You got to like listen to your audience.

Speaker 1 (37:09):
They'll tell you what's good or not.
So you know it is a form of writing to
speak, document, edit and speak again like
am I understanding correctly to say that,
like that's really what it looks like?
You're not pen and a paper, or or by your
computer or whatever, like well, I am on my
computer all alone.
No, but I mean scripting.

Speaker 2 (37:25):
Yeah you like I have put together scripts
because I used to forget what I was saying.
And I realized a lot of times when you're
watching it, it there's parts, there's a
lot of fat and routines.
People don't realize, you know, and I'm
like I have to get rid of some of this.
And then you watch like why am I saying
that?
But the only way to do that, yes, that is

(37:45):
on the computer.
I'm doing on the computer.
I'll handwrite sometimes, but not as much
anymore.
But but on the computer I'm doing it on the
computer.
I'll handwrite sometimes, but not as much
anymore, but use the computer and edit down.
Now what's so great is you can transcribe
your video.
You know it's so great.
It's Adobe Premiere.
You transcribe the video, I'll copy and
paste that transcript for a routine into
the computer and then I'll just edit from

(38:07):
there, which is such a helpful tool we
didn't have years ago, which that's when
writing became very tedious.
Now it's a lot.
It's sort of a quicker process, except the
creativity part.
Because you know when you say I'm going to
sit down and I'm going to write for an hour,
but you might not be funny that hour, you
might not be creative that hour.
I'm creative by three in the morning when

(38:27):
I'm, you know I'm like I'm up now, you know
so.
But I I do have some.
I do have scripts, but a lot of the scripts
did come from performing live first.
It's just I realized that you have to trim
things down and the scripts do help me.
Plus, you know, I went on fullest like
three.
Well, twice that I actually perform magic
and I'm like boy, I have to tighten this up

(38:48):
for that.
So I wrote everything out out and I said,
well, I'm going to, and plus, you have to
stay with it.

Speaker 1 (38:54):
Yeah, you have to submit the script and you
have to stick to it.

Speaker 2 (38:57):
Yeah.
So because I did that and a couple of other
TV things, I had to tighten up the act.
So I did tighten that up that way.
And I worked also at the time, a few years
back, with Fielding West and Johnny
Thompson.
They were great friends and they both,
johnny as well.
They both like kind of helped me.

(39:18):
Johnny helped me more with the magic and
Field helped me with some of the structure
of the writing, because Fielding never used
to write anything either, you know.
And then he said, oh, I would just go on
and on and on.
And then I started working with Johnny and
he said you've got to write this out.

Speaker 1 (39:32):
So so there is a script behind what I do,
because if not, the improv's not gonna yeah,
but so it sounds like the scripting process
comes between performing and after
performing, like, yeah, you know, the
scripting process is like okay, I take the
video, I put it down, I can trim some fat,
I you know, like in general, this is how

(39:54):
this stuff happens, as a routine starts
pretty bare bones and then it gets a lot of
fat added to it, a lot of yeah, bad jokes
and whatever, and then trim it down so that
it's only got the best stuff and yeah, but
it sounds like that's sort of what it looks
like for you as well.

Speaker 2 (40:09):
Yeah, yeah.
In fact, I just like I put something up in
the show recently and the opening was so
weird and I couldn't figure out what was
wrong with it.
And I started to watch the video and I was
like cringing and it was a new bit.
So it was a comedic illusion bit as type of
a zigzag thing where the whole thing falls
apart with the guy.
I put an audience member in there and the

(40:30):
box falls apart.
It's pretty funny, but anyways, but I had
trouble and I was out there and I couldn't
figure out this opening line, why it was so
bad that one of the guys that works with me
I sent a video to him.
I said could you watch this and tell me
what I did wrong, because I can't watch
this.
I'm like literally cringing as I'm watching
it.
Now, the audience wasn't, it's just they
didn't.

(40:50):
They're just thinking that whatever.
But but I got out there and I'm like it was
something like I'm sitting there saying
something like yeah, so we used to.
This is a.
This illusion's a type of a sawing a lady
in half.
But it's not politically correct to saw a
woman in half anymore.
So we're going to get a guy.
But it sounded so campy and I didn't know
what the problem was, and he said well,

(41:12):
mike, because you're not politically
correct, and now you're trying to say
something you know that's politically
correct.
It was a contrast of your character, like
it was a lie, it didn't.
It felt that way, and so I'm like, oh shit,
you know.
I'm like I didn't realize that, you know,
till he pointed it out, and so then I went,
and then, of course, I went completely the
opposite way.
Okay, I'm going to be so edgy, but anyway,

(41:34):
I rewrote the routine and I'm still
rewriting it, but it's kind of one of those
things that I feel like it.
You know how things can sometimes come
together like immediately, of course.
It's one of those things that takes a while,
you know, and the magic was working well
and the the comedic aspect of it was was

(41:54):
good.
It was just my setup was like not right.
And then I was, I put this video up there
that was like the old harbin zigzag him
doing that on tv, but it's black and white,
old, and I put on there first just a minute
version of it, edited, to give the audience
the setup of this is what it should look
like, but the problem is that minute was

(42:16):
not entertaining for that audience.
To us it is magicians, you know, but
there's a reason.
No one's really doing the zigzag anymore,
you know.
It's not really.
There's better things out there now that
they've seen.
So I ditched that and I rewrote a a minute
skit with the the guys in my show, like the
guys that work for me, yeah, and we did it

(42:36):
where the trick goes terribly wrong with
that.
And now I say, well, I fixed the box.
You know, I don't even call it zigzag
anyway, but I go, I fixed the box, now
connect fry with someone in the audience,
and now it gets.
You know, that's where the kick comes in.
The guy gets in it and the whole box falls
apart, and then the guy that works for me
that they saw in the video prior actually
ends up appearing in the box.
Oh so, yeah, so it's kind of an appearance

(42:57):
box, but they don't see it coming.
So but I rewrote that whole thing.
And last night was the first time we put
the new video up and it worked great so I
could see where it's going.
But boy, some things just take.
You really have to try it live to see.

Speaker 1 (43:12):
It's so funny.
You said that like you were talking about
Fool Us and you were talking about some
things coming together and we did Fool Us
twice.
The first time we did it they were hounding
us on the premise and it took us like three
months of dumb premises until we were like
oh my gosh, it was like sitting in front of
us the whole time.
And the second one wrote itself.

(43:33):
Like I mean, we, we added a bunch of bits
and stuff, but it, you know, it just wrote
itself.
And I think what you're saying is true like
sometimes these things take an eternity to
find something that works and sometimes you
just bang your head against the wall for
like three months and then you go like
enough banging my head on this thing, like
let's put it in storage.
And then sometimes you see the light and

(43:53):
you decide to do it For you.
You know, I assume you're constantly
looking at different stuff to put into the
show and constantly like playing with new
material.
When do you decide that a new trick is like
not quite.
You're like you know what, it just hasn't
got it.
Like let quite.
You're like you know what it just hasn't
got it.
Like let's scrap it.
How long does that process take?

Speaker 2 (44:12):
Oh, sometimes it's the first day, literally.
You know the worst, and I'm sure any
magicians performing like regularly, or you
know that, do this, for you know a
full-time job, know this.
You'll get an idea that you're like this is
going to be great and you're working it out,

(44:32):
but it's all in your head that it's going
to be great.
You've not seen it or done it.
You know, yeah, and you're like, oh, this
is going to be great or it could just not
be your character.
You know there's a lot of really good magic
out there.
There's some great.
I love mentalism, for example, but there's
certain criteria that I have to have for it
to work in my show.
Otherwise it's not going to work for me and,

(44:53):
that being, it can't be a long premise, it
can't be a long setup and the procedure
cannot be long.
It needs to hit quick.
So sometimes I'll have an idea and I'm like,
oh, this is going to be so good, I'm going
to do this, I'm going to do this, I'm going
to do this.
And you go and do it the first day and you
realize, oh, this is, this is terrible.
Like you know, it's not for you.
It's like what was I thinking?
You know, cause it's all in your head Like

(45:15):
you're imagining it working, but you'll
know.
But otherwise you know honestly, sometimes
it just takes.
You can usually tell after about a week or
two or I'll say amount of shows.
I'll say I could tell by five, 10 shows if
it's right or not.
I could tell if it has potential or if it
doesn't.
Sometimes, like I say, I'll know right away
because I'll be like it just didn't feel

(45:36):
right, it just felt long or maybe didn't go
with the rest of what I'm doing, that kind
of a thing In a lot of this.

Speaker 1 (45:43):
You've kept bringing up this idea of
character and I think it's hard because
there's sort of two ways to be, to think of
character as a magician.
The first is like you dress up as something,
you put on a voice and you're legit a
different character, like an actor or like
you know whatever.
And then there's like I am a quasi version

(46:06):
of myself up there and I think a lot, of, a
lot of people, myself included, get lost in
the translation into being like I'm like a
slightly different version of myself or I'm
that.
How do you start putting that stuff
together to be able to say like it doesn't
fit my character, like I can say it doesn't
fit my interest.

(46:27):
I can say, you know, like that's not my, my
taste, but it's very hard for me to say
like that does not match up with my
character.
Is there like process you go through?
Is there something that you do to help
understand that?

Speaker 2 (46:40):
yeah, and what we used to call, it is or it
still could be called, is.
You need to find your voice, so meaning you
need.
You need to find what you, you want to
project.
Now you could be like a cost.
I I'm not what you said, that where you
pick a character and dress up like piff.
Of course he's a character, although piff
is very similar to if you talk to him off

(47:01):
stage, he's still similar to that, only
wearing a costume.
Yeah, but he knows, for example, his
character is going to eat bananas or eat
food, or his whole thing's about food.
I guess dragons eat a lot of food, you know,
or whatever his choice was, but but but
somewhere in there it's him.
You know there's some part of his being is

(47:22):
is still incorporated.
But for me, and probably your act as well,
we're an extension of ourselves.
But it's the part of ourselves that's not
the crabby ass in the morning right, or the
part of ourself, that's not.
You know that.
You know the part you don't want someone to
see.
You know you don't want to go on stage
being a miserable human being.

(47:43):
So if you are generally that, you better
work on your character.
But what I decided is when, when I put the
characters like study together and we'll
call it like I know what my character would
and wouldn't do on stage.
In other words, like when I talked about
I'm not politically correct, but it doesn't
mean I just go up there and I'm purposely
not political, I'm just rude.

(48:04):
Yeah, because the character is not supposed
to be.
I'm not supposed to be a rude person, it's
just I don't see things as as as bad, you
know, like I don't see things as wrong in
the sense of you know whether I pick on
somebody or not, Like to me, it's just for
yeah, I shouldn't say yeah, I don't like
put those limits.
I mean I'm not stupid, obviously I'm not

(48:24):
gonna.
I'll put limits where they're appropriate.
I'm not doing racial jokes, for example.
I'm not doing that, although you know it is
funny.
People when they have nothing better to say,
they'll say, oh, he's racist, but I'm not.
You know like I'll ask for.
There's one of my routines and I'm looking
for a nurse from the audience and I'll ask
oh, where are Filipinos tonight?

(48:45):
You know that kind of thing.
I'll ask for the.
But there's such a great culture and they
have so much fun.
They're never offended.
It's in a positive way.
It's just many of them are in nursing, you
know so.
But someone could take that the wrong way.
But I don't mean it the wrong way.
I, I, I and they know I said oh, you guys,

(49:05):
I always tell them you're the best nurses.
You know if anyone watching you know if I'm
in the waiting room and someone comes in,
if not filipino, I am out of there.

Speaker 1 (49:10):
You, just so I play to right, you're
punching off about it, not damn yeah, and
and so and plus.

Speaker 2 (49:18):
Those aren't the only.
I I'll joke around with everyone, but
you've got to also understand cultures and
and and and people specifically.
So.
But as far as character goes, I always tell
people you should probably write out an
idea of who you want to be and the whole

(49:39):
who, what, why, why am I doing this?
And I think an acting class would be
helpful, even if it's just a brief one, for
anybody that wants to have longevity doing
a kind of character.
Because if you want to get better with your
act I feel because with my style, I have to
know what style of comedy I'm going to do.

(50:00):
I have to know what this character would
say, wouldn't say.
Are you know, are you a character that
would TikTok at someone, for example?
You know Well, if you are, you're probably
a little bit shady, you know.
I mean, I do TikTok thing, but you don't
have scruples with respect to someone's

(50:22):
personal space, is what I'm trying to say.
But you realize that with a character like,
if you're a character that would never
touch someone, well, you're not going to
take back, you're not going to do a wallet
steal or whatnot.

Speaker 1 (50:33):
I mean just, is there like a way that you
map this kind of thing out, like I mean,
are you writing out, would do, won't do,
are you write anything like that?
Or this is the kind of thing that, like,
slowly over time, you start just
understanding.

Speaker 2 (50:46):
Oh well, I did write it out, but I only
wrote it.
But I mean, I don't know now.
I know what it is like, like, but I did
write it out.
Yeah, you just basically like, even if you
just go on the internet and you search, you
know what, what are good questions to ask
to help with character, character study?
Or if I want to be an actor, what kinds of
questions do I need to act because we are
actors?
Yeah, in a sense, you know.

(51:07):
I mean, that's what we're doing and we're
not.
You know that and that's the thing.
I'll see.
Some guys they'll get a crappy audience,
for example, and they like to blame it on
the crowd and they want to yell at the
crowd.
But if your character wouldn't yell at a
crowd, for not, they're not being a lot of
people, you can't do that.
You know what I'm saying?
You can't, yeah, so I could could tell

(51:27):
they're not in character because they don't
know what their character is.
So that's the problem.
I think you develop your routines downstage
based upon who you think you are as a
performer, and that's why sometimes things
don't work for me, even though it's great.
I can see it done by someone else, for
example, but it just doesn't fit me.
Well, you wouldn't know if it doesn't fit

(51:49):
you unless you know yourself really well as
a performer if that makes any sense, got it.

Speaker 1 (51:55):
Yeah, it does make sense.
I wanted to ask about Vegas.
So you know a lot of people are like, oh
man, that would be the most amazing thing
ever.
First of all, you know, I just got back
from spending a couple of days in Branson
Awesome, wild, crazy bonkers place.
I described it as a docked cruise ship.
But the thing that I just started to

(52:18):
realize is Ben and I would produce a whole
lot of public shows in Toronto.
I mean, not a whole lot by your standard,
but three or four a month or whatever.
And then we were like teetering on this
idea of getting a venue and doing a magic
lounge type thing or whatever.
And then all of a sudden we were just
overcome with this we do corporate gigs, we

(52:39):
enjoy our days, we go and do a gig and get
paid very well to do it.
And to do Monday to Sunday, every day,
whatever, plus or minus one show a day, two
shows a day, whatever Sure, sure is like
possibly building a little prison that you

(52:59):
have to work in.
And obviously I know that when you're doing
the shows it is fun and you feel electric
and you feel alive and it feels great.
Are you like living the dream right now, or
is it like, oh man, again same jokes and
same lines again, like you know?
Is it really the dream?
Do you feel it's the dream to have your own

(53:21):
show in Vegas that people come see?
Or is there like a hard side?
I mean, obviously it's hard, but is there
like a negative side of it, like what's it
like?
So?

Speaker 2 (53:30):
the well, I do love doing it, yeah, but and
I don't really get bored with the material.
I'm like I'm changing some of the.
That's why I change some new things and I
write new stuff.
I gotta keep it interesting.
But the improv for me is huge, so that's
changes it a little bit too, because I
could, you know, every audience is going to
be different.
But the thing I like is I don't have to

(53:51):
really leave my hometown.
Well, it's not my hometown, my hometown is
Chicago, but in my hometown now.
But I don't have to leave home necessarily
to for a paycheck, because when I toured
that was a lot of work.
You know the colleges were tough, that was.
You know it got old after a while, but not
the college itself.
Just to travel just gets to be a bit much.

(54:14):
So that parts part's great and it's nice,
but there's a whole business behind it and
it is tedious Like I wish I could just
perform and not do the business side.
But, because it's my own show.
I've got to run the show and there's.
I mean, anything could happen any day and
it just throws your whole day off.

(54:34):
It's like the air conditioning went out in
our room today.
So now you gotta, you know you're begging
the engineers to come down and fix it.
You know, and, and it's in it, and that's
if you, then you have to catch it before
showtime.
Meanwhile the rooms are, you know, 90
degrees and outside's 112.
You know so, and you've got to have it
working by showtime.

(54:55):
You'll have that.
Or you'll have a fire alarm that goes off
in the middle of this show, or Outside's
112 feet of the south, and you've got to
have it working by showtime.
You'll have that.
Or you'll have a fire alarm that goes off
in the middle of the show, or you'll have
there's just something, or the brokers, one
of the ticket brokers will be down and
you're like now we can't get our numbers,
or some issue with the box office, or
someone calls in sick.
I mean, there's definitely that side of it.

(55:19):
Plus you've got.
Now Vegas has become such a sports town.

Speaker 1 (55:20):
Now that the traffic's a mess.

Speaker 2 (55:22):
So now people are arriving late at the
shows, you know, because they thought
before they were going to get there in 10
minutes.
Now it takes 30 minutes or whatever it
might be.
So you know you're waiting for them.
You just want to start the show at seven.
Some people are sitting there already, some
people are late, so now you're, you know, 8
because even 5 minutes late to me sucks,

(55:42):
you know.
It's like I want to start on time, you know,
and so, but there's, you know, I think it's
like everything else, anything else, of
course you have to take the good with the
bad.

Speaker 1 (55:53):
I just mean to say, like, do you think this
is the ultimate for a magician?
Like to have a running show, that you get
to do your show and try new material and be
in one spot or whatever Like, is that the
ultimate?
Like, you tried so many different parts of
this.
You did shows in colleges and corporate and
touring and whatever Like is this the
ultimate or not?
I don't know.

Speaker 2 (56:14):
Well, it's funny because now and I still do
corporate work I still take corporate work
but I don't have to take as much.
I mean, I don't have to take any, but
corporate pays.
Well, it's worth it a lot of times.
It's funny that you have asked that
question, because I actually liked a tour
again for a little bit, not so much just to

(56:36):
get out there.
And the thing about Vegas is tour again for
a little bit, not so much just just to get
out there, and and and and.
You know, the thing about vegas is when you
do a show in vegas and yes, I love it to
answer your question but when you do a show
in vegas, there's so much entertainment out
there that people can see, so when they
come here, you're one of maybe three things
that they've done.
When you go to another city, you're the
only thing in that city that they're coming

(56:57):
to see.
So, in other words, if I go not not branson,
of course that's different, that's like
here, you know.
But if I go, you know, rent a room in the
middle of somewhere in iowa, for example,
for a tour well, people, that's their
highlight of the week a lot of times, you
know, and they're just great audiences.

Speaker 1 (57:16):
So, and that's always your fourth show
they've seen this week.

Speaker 2 (57:20):
Yeah, they're already like oh yeah, well,
not to mention, they're drinking, yeah, so
we people think that helps, but it doesn't,
because when you're drinking in a dry
climate like this, yeah, you're just tired.
It makes you really tired.
So sometimes they'll.
You look at them and you're like okay, I
wait these guys up to yeah they're getting
losing.

(57:40):
Or you get them on a friday when they just
flew in and you just, and they're just, you
get tell we play these funny videos before
the show and if they're not laughing at the
videos, it's gonna be a tough show.
I look at the guy next to me and I go, okay,
I'm gonna, I'm gonna have to work this one.
I I've got it down now and I know I can
turn them, but it just you're not going to
get that lot of applause at the beginning.

(58:01):
Not easy, yeah, of course.
No, no, no, which is fine, you just write
jokes for that too.

Speaker 1 (58:06):
Cool.
You know, it's interesting.
I think so many magicians like.
There's a guy in Toronto who I speak to,
who just moved here about a year or so ago,
and I'm talking to him and I'm like what's
the goal, what's the dream?
And he's like I want to have my own show in
Vegas.
And I'm like dude, have you been to Vegas?
And he's like no, and I'm like go first.
Like go first before you want a show there,
because it's its own beast, you know.

Speaker 2 (58:29):
It is.

Speaker 1 (58:29):
It's not quite just like.
One thing that's really interesting that
people are confused by is they think that
having a show in Vegas means that everyone
is coming to see Mike Hammer and many are
coming to see Mike Hammer, but a lot of
people are coming to see the magic show in
the casino they're staying at, or the magic
show on Fremont Street.

Speaker 2 (58:47):
Or no magic show anymore.
They're coming to see.
It's become a sports town so they're going
to see, like you know, the Raiders.
Or they're coming in town to see.
There's so many music acts that are here
now so they're not even coming to see.
You I'm on like I always consider it we're
the b thing to the b level thing to do.
They're doing their main big thing and if

(59:08):
they're are going to see a big show,
they're going to go see david copperfield
or chris angel yeah, as far as if it's a
magic show, and then we're like a secondary
thing to do, the secondary show.
For some people I get lucky and I'm their
first thing, but but they're coming to
Vegas for other reasons.
The other thing is it's very, very hard to
keep a show in Vegas.
It's really, really hard because someone

(59:31):
else is always coming in there with money
to rent that room.
If they hit that casino for more, you know
the casinos don't help much.
My mind's very cool.
They're great.
Where I'm at, I love them.
They're great.
I've been there for a long time, um, and
it's just a great casino like they're they.
They love me, but you can go to another
casino and your show could be gone tomorrow

(59:53):
because they just decided, oh well, we're
not gonna do entertainment anymore, we
going to turn that into a bingo rule or
something.
I mean, you just don't know.

Speaker 1 (01:00:02):
Yeah, and the competition is stiff, yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:00:05):
It's really tough.
So it's, yeah, and everyone's trying to do
the same thing.
So, but there's some really good shows here.
There's some really good guys, you know, as
far as if you want to see magic like, and
colin just started his show out, colin
mcleod, but he just started it well,
clouded, but we know who he is, no, but he
he's great.
I just saw his show, uh, recently, and

(01:00:26):
there's so many really good shows.
Frederick to silva is another mentalist
show.
I love his and there's.
But there there's there's some really great
shows that you want to see and, and, of
course, mac Mac's been doing this.
He's faithful for it.
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:00:41):
Well, this has been amazing and gives so
much information and help to people that
are in the industry, helping them
understand not just what to do but also
what to want.
As we get near the end of the episode,
there's a couple of questions that we ask
each guest.
You know this, you listen to this podcast,
you know.
The first is the endless chains.

(01:01:01):
In order to keep the podcast going on for
eternity, each guest is asked to recommend
another guest who would be a good fit for
the show.
There are two catches.
The first catch is that I have not
interviewed them yet, and the second catch
is that you can help put us in contact who
comes to mind that you think would be
really good for this.

Speaker 2 (01:01:17):
So here's a name that you would not expect
me to name at all.
You'd think a comedian or whatnot.
There's a guy, Bernardo Sedlicek.
Oh, I know him.
He's amazing, but he's not been on here,
has he?
No, he hasn't been on, he's great.
So for those that don't know I mean close

(01:01:37):
to magic He'll tell you he's just a magic
card guy.
You know close to magic, but he's so
brilliant and he's young, but he's
brilliant and he's like a descendant of,
you know, Juan Tamariz and Danny DeRatis,
and he's so amazing.
He's actually helping me with a couple
things in my show now via Brazil, you know,
via Zoom, but he's so amazing I didn't
think anybody could learn from that guy.

(01:01:58):
He's just so good with psychological
misdirection and just such a smart guy.

Speaker 1 (01:02:02):
Cool, that's a great one, love that.
The next part is sort of.
You know a lot of people are going to be
looking back on this episode and thinking
about it.
Like, for starters, what is like the most
important thing that you hope that people
take from this conversation?

Speaker 2 (01:02:19):
to me.
I'd love that anyone that does, that's
interested in doing comedy magic, does
study comedians.
Yeah, I feel that that is.
So you'll get that sense of the timing and
that sense of how a joke is written, how a
joke is scripted, because then you, you can
you don't have to rely on just your magic
to, you know, sell you as a performer.

(01:02:41):
Now you've got like like kind of humor,
yeah, like genuine humor, you know, not
just written into the bit.

Speaker 1 (01:02:47):
Yeah, thank you for that.
I think that's really helpful because a lot
of us just study magicians and it makes a
lot more insular things, so that is really
helpful.
The last is about modern magic.
So what's one thing that you really like
about modern magic and what's one thing
that you really don't like about magic
these days?

Speaker 2 (01:03:04):
well, what's interesting that I think is
really cool is the technology in magic has
gotten so advanced now that you can do so
much great stuff with it.
As far as mentalism or whatnot, there's so
many you know, devices that you can use to
things to you know what's the word I'm

(01:03:24):
looking for To produce things you couldn't
have done before.
You know just the magic itself in the mind.
The thing I hate about it, though, is that
same things, I think tech, sometimes gets
in the way as well.
I think tech, first of all, it's not a
hundred percent reliable.
You know, and you have to know what to do
when that's not working, and I and the
other thing about it is that, as technology

(01:03:47):
advances, you start seeing it come into the
real world, so you can see something that
was a mentalist thing, for example, a
printer, but now in the real world, people
are starting to see yeah, they have them,
and it's almost like you know, it's almost
counterintuitive to what we're trying to do,
because the real work, and sometimes people

(01:04:08):
think, even if it's not out, they just
think, oh, yeah, it's electronic.
Or, you know, they think that way.
Oh, it was done such and such.
So that part it's hard to sometimes make
sure it still feels organic in a sense.

Speaker 1 (01:04:22):
Well, Mike, thanks so much for being here.
I appreciate it.
I appreciate you, you know, telling us all
about how you do what you do and everything
behind the scenes about being a Vegas
magician.
It's really awesome.
So we appreciate you coming here and having
fun with us and, of course, to everybody
who listened and tuned in, thanks so much

(01:04:43):
for being here, thanks for having fun with
us and we will see you next Thursday.

Speaker 2 (01:04:46):
Ciao, my friend, thank you.

Speaker 1 (01:04:53):
Well, there you have it.
I hope you liked the episode and I hope, of
course, that you learned something.
Please give Mike Hammer some love on social
media and if you liked the episode, if you
learned something, then tell the world
about it.
The reason I actually interviewed Mike is
because someone told me that he was talking
about a previous episode.
So, who knows, maybe I'll interview you
because you shared an episode of Mike's.

(01:05:15):
I don't know.
Anyways, thanks.
So