The Secrets of a Master Illusionist with Reza

Get ready to be amazed by the world of grand illusions with our extraordinary guest, Reza Borchardt

The post The Secrets of a Master Illusionist with Reza appeared first on Discourse in Magic.

Episode Transcript

Jonah (00:00):
Hello, my friends, and welcome to a brand
new episode of Discourse in Magic.
My name is Jonah Babins and in this episode
we sit down with Reza.
Reza is an incredible illusionist and
magician who's doing his show in Branson,
missouri.
I have to say this was one of the best
illusion shows I have ever seen in my
entire life, so I knew that I had to

(00:21):
interview him and learn a little bit about
how he does it and how you can do it if
you're into producing your own show, making
giant illusion shows or anything in between.
Reza is incredibly creative and was a blast
to speak with, and you're going to learn as
much as I did.
Please enjoy a lovely episode with Reza.

(00:53):
Hello, my friends, and welcome to a brand
new episode of discourse in magic.
My name is jonah babbins and we are here
with reza.
Reza, how you doing?
I'm good, jonah.
How are you?
I am doing awesome, and I gotta tell you
that I believe that I saw the best illusion
show of my life with you at your theater.
When I started this podcast, I was like
this would be great, because I can go see a

(01:13):
magic show of like magicians that I know
and then I can review it.
And then I saw a magic show with my peers
in it that I didn't like and I was like you
know what?
I don't review magic shows anymore, you
know, I don't, I don't, I don't do that
anymore.
So I never sort of reviewed magic shows and,
honestly, I saw a show.
I just was totally mind blown and I thought
it'd be a lovely thing to talk about.
So let's start before the show.

(01:36):
Let's start at the very beginning.
How did you get into magic?

Reza (01:39):
I got into it, I think, like everybody else
did a combination of tv shows that were
popular at the time and a couple gifts like
magic kits for birthday and christmas, and
my parents like, hey, this is something he
likes, and so let's get a couple more of
these things and see what develops.

Jonah (01:56):
And so that's what took place what were the
magic tv shows at your time?

Reza (02:01):
so like world's greatest magic.
My, my grandma would like record them, so
so that she would have like wanting to come
hang out.
She'd have all these videos of like magic
shows because she knew that I liked it and
it was something that we could bond over.
And then there's a couple magicians that
were on that that I had the opportunity to
see live and they were so kind.
So one was a magician named dave hamner and

(02:23):
he'd just been on like world's greatest
magic five at the time.
So big nbc special.
For those that haven't seen that or didn't
grow up at that time, it was like prime
time, like people watched it and then
everyone talked about it later.
Like those tv shows don't exist now, but at
the time, you know, it was very much pop
culture.
So then to get to meet one of these
performers was a big deal.
But I also wrote a little letter backstage

(02:46):
hey, I would love to meet you if there's a
chance to come back.
He was.
So he wrote a physical letter, a physical
letter head to the box office person.

Jonah (02:54):
Yeah, like, just shoot my shot how did you
know where to mail it?

Reza (02:58):
no, I handed it to the box office like as I
they walked.

Jonah (03:03):
Oh, I understand, I yeah.

Reza (03:05):
And there was two, two performers that did
this for me.
One was Kirby van Birch and then I was Dave
Henry.
So Kirby did meet and greets publicly and
so I got just waited in line and got some.
But Dave I don't think at the time did but
what he offers like why don't you come
backstage and take a look at things?

(03:25):
And he gave me the chance to see behind the
scenes of the show, which was incredible
and it was.
It was eye-opening to me.
You may want to do it more.
And then kirby same thing.
You know, I waited the very end of the line
to maybe have a couple more moments with
him and he was gracious as well, brought me
backstage.
So now seeing like how these shows operate
and all these big props, costumes, dressing

(03:46):
rooms, like what's actually taking place to
produce this show, that intrigued me even
more, and I think that's when I started
saying this is something that I'm wanting
pretty seriously, and at the time, were you
doing any magic or just a fan of magic?
I was a fan, but I did like school talent
show like that that level.
I would go to a magic shop and, whenever I

(04:07):
could afford it, by one of the big props
off the shelf and yeah.
So I was like I was getting there but I
hadn't created a business model with it at
that point.

Jonah (04:17):
I think something that's really interesting
to me is that your show was mostly like a
grand illusion show, and even the way that
you're talking about it now.
It's like I got to see these big illusions
and buy these big props and like I never
bought a big magic prop in my entire life.
What was the draw to grand illusions or big
props?
Did you have a period where you weren't

(04:39):
using big props and giant metamorphoses and
things, or you just went right to grand
illusions?

Reza (04:46):
I think I liked the big stuff.
I don't know what what drew me to it
originally, but someone gave me this like
word of advice that stuck with me, and it
was that all that stuff is just furniture.
That's what they called it and it's what
you do with it.
It's how you weave the story and your
persona and are you funny, are you serious?

(05:07):
It's what you, it's what you create around
this quote, unquote furniture.
And that was really great advice, because
at the time there was, you know, a number
of tricks like you know, whatever they like,
obviously sub trunk, you know metamorphosis,
like that's the first trick you get into,
and then there's like 12 different box
tricks that anybody can buy and you see
them in every cruise ship magic show and

(05:27):
it's just like there's different music,
maybe a little different choreography, but
it's the same exact trick.
So it's reinventing that.
And so the way I started, I think, pivoting
where I wanted to take the good part about
this big stuff but also make it so it had
connectivity and relatability to the
audience, is how can I change these props
from cliche magic props to organic objects?

(05:49):
And so the first thing you know we started
developing was like the, like the blades we
had like an origami and it was like samurai
swords.
We're like how can we make these blades
like cooler and just more on brand?
And then I had a box where I made people
disappear and eventually that took form

(06:11):
into a shipping container, which is now a
focal point in the show, where there's a
big organic object that everyone knows what
it is and when you see it I think you start
to fill in gaps with yourself and you know,
oh yeah, I know that it's heavy.
You start telling fill in gaps yourself.
You know, oh yeah, I know that it's heavy.
You start telling yourself things about it
where you don't do that with a magic,
sparkly box.

(06:31):
And so the whole show started like power
tools, spray paint, just organic.
I mean the smaller things you know, like
you saw in the show, like the candy bar
effect is a is a main thing, but the big
takeaways I mean I do the jet engine, the
helicopter and things, but a lot of it are
things that you'll find in your garage and
in your life and there are big illusions

(06:52):
but it isn't like props.

Jonah (06:55):
I want to ask about the journey in a minute,
but I just want to touch on one other thing,
which is that you mentioned Dave Hamner,
who also has a show in Branson, which is
really awesome that you know.
You met him as one of the first people you
know.
That really got you into magic and took you
backstage, and now you guys are both
performing regular shows in the same city.

(07:16):
Can you talk about that for a minute?

Reza (07:17):
Yeah, I mean he became a great friend and
our friendship has been consistent
throughout the years.
So now we even like cross-market each
other's shows and so that's cool.
But one of the things that he did for me
was he taught me how to do some of these
tricks one-on-one.
So like when I first got my sub-trunk
illusion whatever I was, you know, like

(07:39):
freshman high school or something I brought
that trick to Branson and in the parking
lot he showed me how to use it.
So in my mind I was doing it completely
differently, like the positioning and the
way to come up and all that.
He's like no, no, no, this is faster.
At the time he and the Pendragons, I think,
had the fastest switch.

(07:59):
So getting that level of expertise as a kid
was really cool, cool.
So now, like a full circle thing, you know
I do that same thing now or after every
show.
I do a meet and greet, but it isn't just
like an autograph signing the photo.
I literally bring people backstage and
answer questions and show them props, and a
lot of people think it's just, you know,
interesting to know, but I know there's a

(08:21):
few every once in a while that are very,
very serious, and so I hope it's more
impactful for those people.

Jonah (08:26):
That's awesome.
So let's get back to sort of that moment in
life.
So you saw their shows, you know you got
into it.
You started seeking a little bit of advice
sorry, you started seeking a little bit of
advice and help from them.
How did you start doing this professionally,
like it's kind of, you know, trying to

(08:47):
become a full-time magician is crazy, sort
of in general.
How did you go about doing this?

Reza (08:52):
Well, I knew what I wanted for a starting
point and I knew what I wanted for an end
goal.
The first version of the show was pretty
simplistic, but I still needed some basic
things to tour with the props and the crew,
and so I wanted a tour bus like a rockstar
tour bus.
That'd be cool.
Couldn't afford it, so I ended up having
some side hustles to get eventually what

(09:13):
would be an old school bus that we can get
the seats out of the back and then made it
so it could put all the props in there and
the people in there.
We painted the outside and that was like
the 1.0 version of our of our like touring
rig.
But in order to do that, I needed some
funding that I didn't have.
So my side hustle at the time was I went
and got, I convinced this company that did

(09:34):
fundraising for band trips.
They have a catalog you go around with,
like selling candles and wrapping paper.
I convinced them to send one to me so I
could just personally go out and fundraise
for my magic show.
So I'd go door to door and I'd sell things
where people explain that I wanted to be a
magician.
They could help do that and even now today
people will will come to the show and say I
bought a candle from you, you know, a few

(09:55):
years ago and I took that money and I
reinvested it into a little vending
business where I got, went to Costco, got
candy bars and then I went to break rooms
and I created these like little little
vending side hustle and so, anyway, I sold
all.
I sold those businesses, a couple of
businesses that I created like that.
I got my first little investment, self-made

(10:16):
investment, and so what I would do is I
would, I would go around with my friends
and we'd go from town to town where I'm
from, which is south dakota, so it'd be
like iowa, minnesota, like that area.
We put up posters, all radio stations treat
it like much like a grassroots band would
do, and try to market the show.

(10:36):
The problem was we didn't have the
notoriety.
We there was no like as seen on a tv show.
There was no viral videos that they're like
oh, I'm familiar from seeing it here.
It was just new to the people that we were
marketing it to and so the turnouts were a
little bit disappointing.
You know we really worked hard and only get
50 people sometimes to come see the show,

(10:59):
but we would just keep returning the same
areas, because we found that word amount
was a really key part of this.

Jonah (11:06):
You would return like once a year or like
multiple times.

Reza (11:09):
Once a year, no, no once a year and we'd
see the crowds doubled and triple and it
seemed like every show that we would do
there would be someone there that would be
the key to the next thing.
You know, maybe it was someone that has a
company and brought us back in for a
corporate event.
So it's just like getting out there getting
exposure like anything else had a residual

(11:30):
benefit to it, and so that's.
It was maybe three or four years of just
doing that before we really started to see
success from it.

Jonah (11:39):
So there's a couple of things here.
The first is I just want to comment on how
amazing it is that you had side hustles to
help fund the magic.
I mean, I think it's pretty unique as far
as magic goes that you know magicians, you
can generally start doing things like
birthday parties or whatever, and then you
like graduate from there, but it doesn't
really seem like that's what you wanted.

(12:00):
You wanted to do big, awesome touring shows
with big illusions and to do that you had
to fundraise and wait and invest, which is
really just an awesome and really cool
story to have that in front of you.
The other thing that is really interesting
to me about it is that you were on the road
with a crew in a bus with giant objects

(12:21):
renting theaters.
These are expensive things, you know.
Like one magician can go and do a tour for
relatively cheaply.
They can rent a hundred person comedy club,
you know, and go from there.
But to do grand illusions in a theater with
a crew is a bit of a different scale of
that.
Can you talk a little bit about?
Like, were you losing boatloads of money

(12:43):
for years trying to do this thing?
Was it like, were you partners with these
people?
Like how did this even work so that it
wasn't, you know, you weren't just totally
ruined and bankrupt from trying to do this
thing?

Reza (12:55):
like it seems expensive yeah, I mean there
was cost involved but we try to keep those
costs managed.
I found a lot of success in smaller markets.
At that point Now I was in high school, so
high school performing arts center was a
was a cool venue.
At that point we did like even some smaller
like VFWs and some gyms and some college

(13:18):
campuses and found some places that would
lease their venue or rent their venue out
affordably, not like the big performing art
centers where it's a union house and cost
and cost.
So we were able at that point to to rent a
venue for you know under a thousand dollars
and spend you know a couple thousand
dollars to market it with the radio and all
that, and you know there's a couple

(13:40):
thousand dollars in transport.
But it was a managed cost where we could
have a decent break-even point, achievable
break-even point.
But it went a lot of years without ever
paying myself.
Whatever profits we were able to have come
to the bottom line always got reinvested
into new props or new things.
But it was a long goal.

(14:00):
It wasn't anything that I was trying to
make successful overnight, cause I'd seen
people where they would get like an
investor, for example, and they would just
blow through that person's money and it
would be gone, or they would have family
money and they'd make a big investment.
So the person had no real experience or no

(14:21):
developed talent, just whatever raw
abilities they have, and they were just
given all this at once.
Someone bought all this stuff for them.
They didn't know what to do with it and
then there it wasn't really sustainable,
whereas what I ended up doing was harder
because it was several year thing.
But I learned so much at every step and I
was able to to grow as a performer.

(14:42):
By doing shows repetitively, I would film
the shows.
I performer by doing shows repetitively, I
would film the shows.
I'd go back and review it.
How can this be better?
So, because it was a gradual process, I
think ultimately it made a better product.

Jonah (15:00):
It seems like you knew that this was going
to be a multi-year thing to get this to
work out, and that it wasn't like you were
trying to make these cities, you know, pop
off and have a big payout or something.
This was like you beginning to do it.
Plus, you were in high school, right, like
that's pretty pretty early on, so that's
awesome.
Talk to me a little bit more about like the.
I guess let's talk about the timeline.

(15:21):
So that started happening.
There was corporates that were bringing you
out.
You're returning to these cities.
Did you keep touring, sort of, in the
cities that were near you?
What was the next step after this started
to work and you started to get some
notoriety and things sold out and things
like that?

Reza (15:37):
It was then just growing the radius, going
out to bigger markets and to farther
markets.
Eventually we got some international deals.
We did like a month run in Acapulco and it
was a great run for a lot of reasons.
One was financially.
We were able to do a lot of tickets.
I think we sold like 150,000 tickets over

(15:59):
the course of this.
Maybe it was one or two months, but it was
a lot.
It was arenas, big venues and we worked
with some great promoters that made us very
popular there before we came, did some
great tv appearances and had a lot of buzz
surrounding it and just it did very well.
And so when we came back, I was able to do
some key things with the finances from that

(16:20):
tour.
One of them was to to buy a new, new tour
bus, and so it was the, the bus I wanted.
As a kid, you know this prevo bus, like
with all the a-list celebrities, you know
rolling, and so now I think that that
caused the crew to take things more
seriously.
Now we're rolling in style and easier to
get good people.
Uh, our crew is more comfortable.
It's a bus that isn't breaking down, you

(16:42):
know every, every five trips and having to
do this and that.
So the touring became easier, continue to
reinvest in the illusions, and we started
making duplicates of the illusions that we
started creating and inventing.
We would build one and then we'd build a
duplicate, so then that could travel
overseas, so one could stay and tour in the
U?
S, then went to go overseas, and so what

(17:03):
that did was it allowed me to ship things
overseas, which takes, you know, a month or
two months to go reliably to the other side
of the world and then through customs and
all the things that have to happen.
But it wasn't just taking our shows off of
our calendar to clear the calendar, to ship
props.
Now we're able to still maintain touring

(17:23):
and do that, and so, again, like that was a
good business move for us too.
It took a bit of a leap, but it was great.
And then I found Branson at that point.
So I came to Branson to work on a project
with one of my idols as a kid, brett
Daniels, who I again grew up watching on TV.
And Brett had a project called
Revolutionist, which was an offshoot of the

(17:45):
Illusionist that he co-created and did very
well in Broadway and did Sydney and Dubai,
and so it was a massive success and they
wanted to put an offshoot version of it
that he wanted to create in Branson.
It was kind of a cool thing because he had
sold the show to a promoter and Branson

(18:05):
that that loved it and bought it, based on
artwork that he had created, where he had
kind of put me at the focal point amongst
my heroes as a kid Jeff McBride and, of
course you know, brad and Kevin James other
people that were originally supposed to be
part of this project.
Later, I think a couple of the guys went

(18:26):
other directions, but when I got sold, it
got sold before he even talked to me.
He sold it on concept and then, once they
bought it, he called me and said that I
have this thing and you're a part of it and
since it had already gone all the way to
getting a contract, I cleared my schedule
and went to Branson or played.
I played a couple of seasons and it was
great, but then it introduced me back into

(18:47):
this market.
So Branson is the place that I would come
as a kid because it was an easier
destination to get to than Las Vegas from
where I'm from in South Dakota.
It's a nine hour drive versus a 26 hour
drive, so I was very familiar with the town
and so I got re-energized about it.
After the run with the revolutionists, I

(19:07):
ended up putting my headliner show back in
Branson, and it worked out very well to
continue remaining with the presence of
Branson, where I could remain in one spot
and the 10 million people that come to
Branson every year traveled in, as I could
stay in one spot and then around that I
would also tour and travel.
So it became a really good thing for me to

(19:29):
to be able to have this like little
residency that I can create and design new
things and then take them on tour, can you?

Jonah (19:37):
it's sort of a weird question, but can you
explain to people what Branson is?
You know, like I think people that are near
it in America understand what it is, but
people that aren't don't really get that.
It's its own little universe.
Can you explain what it is?

Reza (19:53):
Yeah, I mean it's beautiful here the lakes
and there's a lot of just cool outdoor
waterfalls and scenic this and that.
And fishing.
Bass Pro is located here as one of the top
golf courses in the world that johnny
morris, who owns bass pro, built.
All these celebrities fly in to play this
golf course.
And then there's also the a theme park here

(20:15):
called silver dollar city, which ranks at
the top of theme parks in america or maybe
the world, I'm not sure, but it's, it's
high up there.
You've got maybe close to 100 different
shows they're playing at any given moment
here.
There's no gambling.
That's just been a thing here somehow it
just never caught on, never happened.

(20:35):
But there's all kinds of just entertainment
and things to do mini golf and Ferris wheel.
Just you come as a family, so it's.
It's a unique place in a lot of ways
because of how diverse it is.
I mean you can go see like old country
shows, you can see modern shows, you can

(20:57):
see a list like Luke Bryan was here the
other day and imagine dragons, and so
you've got everything from the small guys
the biggest names and it's all kind of
right here in one like 10 mile stretch.

Jonah (21:10):
Yeah, you know what I?
What I understood about it is, first of all,
everything you say is helpful to understand
what it is.
What I understood about it is it's kind of
like it's for families that you drive to
instead of fly to.
You know, like, instead of it being a crazy
thing for the weekend that people fly to
Vegas, people drive four, six, eight hours
to Branson to go and go to cool meals, do

(21:31):
fun activities, go to theme parks, go see
cool shows and things like that.
And it was a quite a unique place, nothing
like I have ever seen anywhere in the world
to have, whatever it is, 10 million people
that come through every year and a
population of 10,000 or something like
quite a quite a unique place to be.
Talk to me about those beginning months or

(21:53):
years in getting that theater in Branson.
First of all, is it a theater that you rent,
that you bought, like I'm not really even
sure how, how that part works?
And then I'm curious about, like you know,
to market in a city like that versus going
on tour to a city once, like a small town
that's never heard of a magician, you know,

(22:14):
like hey, I'm here, uh, with crazy video,
versus being in one spot.
It must be quite a different world in terms
of marketing.
How did you make it work?
What were those early months like?

Reza (22:27):
yeah, grants is a very tough town to
establish and they say that it takes at
least three years to achieve any level of
success.
Um and one.
The difficult thing that no one talks about
here is a lot of the tickets move through
ticket brokers and just because there's a
lot of turnover in the shows here, it's
very hard to succeed as a performer in

(22:48):
Branson.
The ticket sellers don't want to sell
tickets until you've been here long enough
that they've gained confidence that you're
going to be here between when they sell a
ticket and when the person comes to the
show.
So it does take it, but it's also one of
those things where, if they need to wait
three years to prove yourself, how can you
become successful without the people who
sell your tickets in the first place

(23:09):
becomes a cycle of impossibility.
So now I have my own theater here in
Branson, but this is my first year with
that.
Previous to that, I would just like lease
theaters or lease spots in theaters, and I
think I played in, uh, three or four
different theaters throughout the years
here until I found the one that I

(23:30):
ultimately thought this, this needs to be
my, my home, and it's a thousand seat
theater, which is like the right number of
seats.
Some of them are overbuilt, you know, like
3 000 seats or that.
Yes, that's too many seats in my opinion
for a show like mine in a market like this.
But those are the stages that have the
capability of doing my show, because
they're big stages and big houses, but I

(23:51):
don't want too many empty seats.
Yeah, the smaller ones have the opposite
problem, like there's just there's no space,
but it has the right number of seats.
So the one that I found ended up being a
really good fit, but yeah, it just.
It took a lot of patience and perseverance
to get over that hump and make people
realize that I was serious about being here

(24:12):
for a long period of time talk to me about
what it's like doing.

Jonah (24:19):
How many shows you do a week?

Reza (24:20):
six, eight depending on the season.
Right now we're doing five shows a week
because it's the slow season here, and then
during the busy season we have been doing
seven days a week, and this last year we
did seven days a week for a three month
stretch.
And then Branson goes through some lulls
where, uh, less tourists or older tourists

(24:42):
are here, and during that time we can go
out and tour and we just do several weeks
on the road.
And there's also times where it's great
here on the weekends but not the weekdays,
or vice versa, and so we'll kind of go in
and out of Branson during those times.
Over the course of a year we'll probably do
about 250 to 270 shows in Branson and then
maybe 60 to 70 on tour.

Jonah (25:06):
So those are some.
Those are some crazy numbers of quantity of
shows.
I mean, it's on par with the people in
Vegas that do shows of you.
Know that quantity it's as basically as
many shows as a human person can do in a
year.
It's not much more spare dates, is it sort
of a weird question?
I just asked this to Mike Hammer, who does

(25:27):
this show in Vegas.
Like you still love it.
You still love showing up to work.
Does it feel a little more like a, like a
job than it does the dream that you thought
you would have?
Like what does that?
What does it feel like on the day to day,
saying the same lines and doing the same,
the same actions?

Reza (25:44):
I mean I built a lot of audience
participation in the show just because it
mixes it up and it makes it so I have to
think on my feet and not get complacent,
robotic.
But the way we have it dialed in now, yeah,
I work most every day, but I'm only working
two hours.

(26:04):
I'm able to go in right at show time, do
the show, I do the meet and greet and then
head back home.
I live eight miles or so from the theater,
so it's nothing just to drive in do the
show, and I live on the lake here so I'm
able to be in a different environment.
Once I'm done with my my day at the theater,
you know I'm go out and it's peaceful, you

(26:27):
know here and kind of get that serenity as
well to allow me to recharge my batteries
and and uh and do it again.
What I think people don't realize about
performers, when you're just sitting in the
seats, is the amount of expectation that
you're putting on that person that for a
moment I think you forget that person is
human, because you've chosen to buy a

(26:48):
ticket and see the performer on that
particular day and you're ready to see
their best work ever.
You're not expecting to see anything less
than their best.
But that is a human being that might be
struggling with, you know, life in general.
Something could have happened that very
traumatic in their life that day.

(27:08):
And as the audience member, I think it's
very easy to be quick to review the show or
or say, you know, go online, oh, he wasn't
into it, or you know he'd go into the
motions and that type of thing, and so you
always have to be at your best, so that
demand begins to wear on you when you do
shows every single day, because it's almost
like you don't have the ability to be human.

(27:30):
When you hit that stage you've got to take
whatever you, whatever struggles you're
dealing with, and you have to completely
separate from that.
So it's good and bad, you know.
It's healthy because it's.
It's a break from our own problems as
entertainers that we're having in our
personal lives if there are that, but also
that disassociation and in and out and

(27:51):
getting that high of being on stage and
that rush of gratification, the audience
and all of that, and then to go from that
to a lot of entertainers I think are very
closed off in their personal lives.
And you look at, you know I won't name
names of people that we all grew up.
You know watching or thinking, and these
are the most elite performers in the field

(28:13):
and you get to know them and you're like
wow, on a personal level they're nothing
like what I thought they were.
You know, you're like wow, on a personal
level, they're nothing like what I thought
they were.
You know, they're very introverted and all
that.
So managing all of that can become, I think,
difficult and at times, possibly unhealthy.

Jonah (28:30):
So I'm at the point now where I'm just
trying to find that balance and just to
sort of, first of all, that context and
that info is really helpful, just to sort
of like reiterate the question and I guess
I'll say it another way which is, you know,
in Toronto, ben and I thought about like
getting a venue and doing shows in the
venue and when we compare what that looks
like for us, compared to like doing awesome

(28:51):
corporate gigs and doing, you know, doing
80 corporate gigs a year versus 300, you
know, shows a year in the same theater of
the same thing, like there's a certain
amount of like freedom and joy and whatever
that comes with being in different places
and doing things like that or whatever.
And I know you also tour, but does it

(29:13):
become quite a bit rote?
You know, doing the show in the theater, do
you like I'm sure it becomes a little bit
easier to fall into?
Like you know, doing the show in the
theater, do you like I'm sure it becomes a
little bit easier to fall into, like you
know, just saying the lines and forgetting
that you're present doing the show when
you're doing that many of them?

Reza (29:27):
or is there anything that you do or that
you feel, to help it really feel fresh for
you each night well again, I think that's
where I built all the eyes participation
into the residency show, because literally
literally no two shows are the same.
A bit might be two minutes one night and
then 10 minutes the next night basically

(29:48):
audience members.
So that's what really keeps it fresh for me
every night.
In doing that, the road is a whole
different animal.
I do more of the audience participation
stuff in branson for that reason.
But when you're on tour you're you're
constantly uh, adapting to new places, new
situations and all that.

(30:09):
So I think it's almost impossible to get
robotic in those environments.
What's challenging is to go from a lot of
one and then go into the other world.
When we're in and out, we're constantly
adapting.
But when you're used to walking five steps
from a prop, being at the very front of the
stage every single night and all of a

(30:30):
sudden you're in a different venue three
steps, you know that can really throw you
off.
Or even just things as simple as you know
in the residency and the lighting might be
able to to shed enough light on the
audience that I can see the audience and
see them reacting to things, and the next
minute there might not be audience light
and I'm saying the lines that I think are

(30:51):
funny and I can't tell if the audience has
given me the response that I want and they
start to get you know in your own head.

Jonah (30:56):
So I think those things are always
interesting do you find that one gives you
a break from the other, like, are you
looking forward to touring while you're in
branson, looking forward to branson while
you're touring, or is one of them really
the light and joy and the other one is the
work or something different?

Reza (31:12):
no, I I think, because we bounce in out of
both worlds, it's always like we're looking
forward to going back to the other thing,
which is kind of cool.

Jonah (31:20):
Cool.
You know, one thing that jumped out to me
at the show was afterwards, you know, we
met up, we hung out a bit and then the team
was like hey, reza, we need you downstairs,
we're working on a new illusion, and it was
like midnight or something and I was like,
okay, I'm going home.
You know, I'm sure you guys worked on it
for another 30 minutes or hour or something
like that.

(31:40):
How often are you adding new illusions and
new things into the show?

Reza (31:46):
It's my goal to have something ready to go
every two months, have one new illusion
ready to go into the show.
Sometimes that flows and sometimes it
doesn't.
The biggest challenge for me, aside from
creating the new illusions, is what to take
out with.
You know, which of these, these things even
invested so much into to go back on on the

(32:07):
shelf.
So that becomes difficult.
But the creative process, you know, is one
that's very challenging but also equally
rewarding.
The night that you were there, I think we
were getting ready to debut an illusion for
the meet and greet.
So what we do before it goes in the show is
we take the backstage, meet and greet and
we route them back into seats after the

(32:28):
meet and greet experience and then allow
them to be the first people to watch the
illusion.
So it does a couple of things it gives us a
real audience to perform in front of, and
then it also gives us a real audience to
perform in front of, and then it also gives
us a focus group to ask questions to and
gain feedback and responses to allow us to
refine the illusion before it goes into the
show.
So that's something that we find to be very
helpful.

Jonah (32:48):
I mean, it's a great system of using what
you have to test things and add new things
into the show.
It's really awesome.
Let's talk about grand illusions for a
minute.
I think that in the world of magic like
tricks parlor style close up there is
vanishing ink and there's penguin and
there's all these retailers of where to get

(33:09):
magic tricks.
I think for illusions there are way less
illusions.
There are few illusion builders.
You know the.
The list of things of when you want to do a
grand illusion, of where to go, seems like
it's smaller.
Not to give away your secrets, but like
where do you go to find new illusions?
Are you coming up with them?
Are you contacting the same three guys and

(33:29):
going, hey, what do you have that's new, or
is there a place to get inspiration?
How do you find new grand illusions?

Reza (33:35):
So we do most of our own fabricating.
We've got a warehouse facility here.
Some things we'll take, like if it's
something that has been designed by another
builder, we'll work with that builder in
building something that they've already
created, but do it in a unique way, so it's
got some sort of a spin on it.

(33:55):
Or we'll just take how they built it and
then bring it into our facility and figure
out how to make it different or unique.
But the most things that we're creating
right now, which is the majority of the
product products that we're doing, it's all
in house.
So it's my initial concept kind of sketched
out.
I've got someone that builds a 3d model
that we can work with first, and then I've

(34:15):
got a lead fabricator and then a team as
well that works with them and they build
literally in the warehouse.
So as we're building things, we can go back
and and if it involves like a person
contained in something you know we can do,
do measurements as it's being fabricated
and also check, make sure, okay, this work
in real life like we think it will.

(34:36):
We also do, you know, all the editing, the
video wall content and all the editing and
editing bay we have here as well.
So it's kind of like everything is under
the umbrella that we've created here to be
able to take a concept from sketching on a
napkin all the way through being ready to
push on the stage.

Jonah (34:56):
So there's not like famous magic illusion
builders that are building most of your
stuff.
It's your people that are building most of
the things, is that right?

Reza (35:04):
Yeah, I mean my creations, for sure it's,
it's, it's all our own people, because we
are isolated.
You know, the builders that build the
majority of performers are in Vegas or in
LA or in that area, and it's a two day trip
and so we're not able to be a part of that
process like we are when it's in-house here.

Jonah (35:26):
Talk to me a bit more about team.
How many people are on your team right now?

Reza (35:30):
So I have eight core people that are always
with me, no matter where I am, and then, if
it's a tour date, there's an additional
eight people that are local and they just
get trained up to do small jobs that allow
us to present the show.
But I've had the same driver for the last
11 years.

(35:51):
He's been with me all the time.
The same tour manager for the last six
years.
Dancers, the front of house tech, lighting,
sound and, yeah, learn to other people and
that that makes up my core crew.

Jonah (36:02):
I think one thing that I realized when I
saw you working with the team is that you
know it's not just magician.
You know you become the conductor of, you
know, a small army.
You know like you become a CEO of Reza Inc
or you know whatever it's called.
So can you talk a little bit about that?

(36:23):
Like you know, a lot of us, like I have a
team, but I've got someone who answers
emails and somebody who makes graphics and
myself, my business partner, and it's not
quite the same as, like, people who have to
learn choreography and have to get this set
up and have to get that set up and all that.
Can you talk a little bit about what it's
like of managing a team?
You know 365?.

Reza (36:43):
Yeah, we all just have to find our cadence
of working separately but also working
together and having all that be cohesive as
we bring these projects to life.
So we all sit around our conference table
once a week and kind of unload our minds
and figure out goals and structures.
And then I've got department heads over
every department.
So I've got one big girl that is over the
top of the other girls and managing

(37:05):
projects there it's costuming or
choreography or whatever's happening that
particular week and I have a backstage guy
that's over maintenance of props or
development or anything in that world
backstage.
And then I've got a house lead that takes
care of making sure everything is

(37:25):
inventoried and we've got things going on
the road.
Things need to be replaced, maintain
redundancy for tech or whatever we're doing.
So having those different department heads
allows me to kind of be more of the
creative visionary than the day to day, and
I found that to work best for me and for my
style.

Jonah (37:44):
Where or how did you learn to do this?
Or just by going through it?
Brute force and learning to you know?
Add 1% of the time and manage a team.

Reza (37:54):
I mean, there's a couple of things I
learned right away that were hard lessons,
but important ones.
One is that you're only as good as your
weakest link, which we all know, but in the
sense of a team one person who isn't happy
or isn't doing their job at their highest
capacity, that becomes cancerous and it

(38:17):
becomes very difficult for other people to
work alongside that one person that isn't
happy and eventually, if you don't cut that
one person out, your whole crew is going to
become as complacent or whatever that
person's downfall is.
So that became very important, and then I
found that having people who are passionate

(38:37):
about the product is also key.
Originally, I would go cast my crew at
places like Full Sail University, where
they have a multi-year tech program and
graduates of that program are ready to go
out and use their abilities on tour
residencies or wherever lighting sound
technology.
So they're equipped with the knowledge to

(38:59):
take on the expectation of our show.
What they don't have is the passion.
Instead of that, I started asking people
who would just come to the show and in a
meet-and-greet setting they would say I
love the show.
Maybe they would speak on how it has
affected them or inspired them, gone
through a hard time and then also ask if
there's any job opportunities available.

(39:21):
Now, that person who's passionate about the
show.
They can now be taught this skill set that
they might need to be aware of in order to
be a part of the team.
But they last a lot longer, right, because
they're there for the right reasons.
Now, of course, the ideal situation.
They come with passion and they have some
sort of training.

(39:42):
Those people are rare.
When we come across them, it's exciting for
us, but I like people who love what they do.

Jonah (39:49):
Well, first of all, it's really helpful and
it's interesting that you've been through
this enough, that you can see what types of
people work and what types of people don't,
and that you can build a team and and have
a team that lasts so long is a great
testament to you really being able to do
this.

(40:09):
You know, when I started this, and even
when the show wrapped up I was I was
telling I mean everybody, all the magicians,
I know that I've, like literally never seen
so many illusions in one show and I see a
lot of magic shows.
Is there somebody or people that are your

(40:29):
inspiration or that you're trying to model
what you do after, or that you're trying to
like?
Even I even told you, like the illusionist,
which is a great show, champions of magic,
which is a great show, like you still have
more illusions than them in your show.
No, you're not a touring.
I mean, I'm assuming you still have
illusions and touring maybe not as many.
If it's a touring show, maybe you do, but

(40:51):
is there anybody that you are modeling or
that you're trying to be like, even if it's
not exactly, but there was inspiration that
got you to where you are here?

Reza (41:01):
Man.
You know, I don't know who that would be as
like one individual, but there's different
things that I admire about different
performers out there.
You know, like the way that Copperfield was
able to make magic emotional was so cool.
You know, over the years, seeing me done
with that, you know, if you go down like
the Vegas guys, chris has got a spectacular
production.
Make magic emotional was so cool.
You know, over the years, seeing me done
with that, you know if you go down like the
vegas guys, chris has got a spectacular

(41:22):
production.
Yeah, and you know that's cool.
Some of the smaller comedy guys, like you
mentioned mike hammer, you know the way
that they're able to work the room.
And matt franco just so likable and
relatable, yeah.
So I know I'm just kind of like working my
way down the strip and just taking
different, different things from different
performers and saying if you were to put
all those things together, you'd have the

(41:44):
most incredible show in the world.
I don't know that I ever set out to have
the biggest show.
I mean as a kid, yeah, I wanted, I wanted
that, but, like in recent years, I think
it's just a by-product.
I'm not trying to cram all the biggest
illusions on the stage.
But I'm just trying to figure out what
people tap into, and of course there's

(42:06):
something really cool about the big things,
and so that's why they had their place, and
probably the most value is in the marketing.
You know, when you see a reel or a
billboard, seeing all these big things
draws you into that show, so it sells
tickets and it has a place.
But when you leave the show, I think the

(42:27):
moments at least for me that you're talking
most about are the smallest moments.
Those are the ones that that stick with you.
Do you feel that's true in the show that
you saw?
I?

Jonah (42:37):
mean it's hard, because I do feel that
that's true.
But I also like small, like I'm obsessed
with card trick.
So obviously the card trick is the thing
that I'm like talking about and like I do
close-up magic, so like that's the stuff
I'm talking about.
So I don't know if you feel that that's
what, how other people talk about it too,
but like for me, yes, it it is, but

(42:59):
certainly the illusions like levitating and
things appearing and whatever, like they're
the most incredible in the literal sense of
the word incredible.
But like the ones that I talk about, the
ones that I remember, are like the oreo and
like you know, the things that are just
happen, that are a little bit smaller, just
because that's the lane that I'm in.
I don't know if you find the lay people are
the same, but certainly it's because that's

(43:21):
the lane that I'm in.

Reza (43:22):
Yeah, I mean, like you mentioned the Oreo.
You know an Oreo costs what you know, less
than a dollar.
Yeah, the trip before after that might've
cost a thousand dollars.
You know, the family was there that night.
So there's a big gap in the value of what
that object is.
But again, going back to the first thing we

(43:42):
talked about, it's all just furniture.
Is what you do with it?
The oreo trick, the original idea there was
the concept by bizarro, yeah, that to bring
the feeling back in an oreo.
That's where the inspiration for that trick
came from, and as I performed that over the
years, I wanted to make that an original
piece, and so you saw what I did with that
being able to to visually grow it, do some

(44:04):
things that hadn't been done before with
that concept.
But then the big kicker is to be able to
feed someone that oreo.
It hasn't left your sight.
You've seen all the magic, you've seen some
impossible things, but now someone from the
audience is eating that oreo.
And then, of course, there's that like joke
kicker at the end which brings it all
together.
I'm not, you know, I won't go into too much
detail about all that, other than you know

(44:25):
to say that that became what people talk
about over the big things.
However, I don't think that it would work
to just do a whole show of card tricks and
Oreos.
I mean I shouldn't say it doesn't work.
There's people that do that sort of thing
and it works very well for them, but for me,
if I adjusted all the big things, I don't
feel that that would be as strong for me If

(44:47):
I saw the small things.
I'm going to be very strong for me, that
back and forth.
So you asked like where the inspiration
comes from, and yeah, I mentioned some
names and things that I admire, but I think
where I look most for inspiration is in the
concert world, because you have those big,
elaborate moments in production.
There might be something all the toys

(45:08):
flashing on that stage and you feel that
person's energy and that person's music.
But then there might be a moment after that
where they're just on the front of the
stage with a stool and a microphone and
just talking about why the song has meaning
to them and you're feeling that's relatable
and right now they're just in the spotlight.
There isn't no dancers, there's no, maybe
not even a band, but now you're connecting

(45:30):
with that performer and you're feeling what
they feel what they felt when they're
writing that song.

Jonah (45:34):
And now you feel that the next thing might
be big or small, but it's like this roller
coaster of these hills and valleys, and I
think that's so cool, to bring that concept
into a magic show.
You know, I think what you're saying is
really awesome and I think it lands
incredibly well, at least with me, that you
know, in my eyes, when I was talking about

(45:56):
it, it was such a so many illusions, such a
great illusion show, but there was a
variety of things in it and that's what
made each and every thing sort of speak in
its own right, and it's hard to not have
three different versions of cutting a woman
in half all blend into themselves in a show
that's full of illusions.

(46:17):
So they have to be different and they have
to be different and you know they have to
be different styles and you have to have
different effects happening and, and also,
for those things to stand out, there needs
to be things that that are slow or or
smaller or more intimate.
You know, at the beginning, when you were
talking about touring, getting a tour bus,
you were talking about musicians and bands,

(46:37):
and you talked about it again.
Now are there bands who you've loved and
still love to this day that maybe are part
of your inspiration in terms of what you do.

Reza (46:47):
Yeah, I think, like at the top that list,
would be a band called switch foot.
I don't know if you're familiar with them,
but they're one of the first bands to
recognize me and give me a platform and put
me on their podcast back in the day, and I
found them to be really good guys on
offstage and their music resonates.
I've used several of their pieces in my

(47:08):
show and just really cool guys.
So there was a moment where, through those
relationships that we built, that I was
able to also get on some other stages and
be an opening act for like steve aoki and
strathagin's background band and
performance like that, and so it was kind
of cool to be able to bring magic onto
these music stages and the other audiences

(47:32):
played like oh, like Huey Lewis in the news,
but a big show with him one time, and so
it's just making magic more diverse.
I think it's been a cool opportunity as
well.

Jonah (47:42):
Love it.
I think it's really it's really helpful and
I just I figured there was a tie into music
for you, given the way that you were
talking about some of these bands and and
you know they're touring, so I love the
shout out to switch foot.
I want to know about how this stuff gets

(48:03):
better, and what I mean by that is, I think
that when I think about Vegas and I think
about these big shows like some of these
magicians have either magic consultants on
staff or magic consultants they've hired
for a while who helps you with your show?
Are there other voices and people that help
you make magic stronger, that are there
sort of whispering in your ear or looking

(48:24):
at stuff, or is it mostly just you and the
team that you've cultivated?

Reza (48:29):
A lot of it is the team that I've
cultivated.
But I also have two other kind of sectors
of people.
One are people in the industry friends that
fly in from time to time and they work with
a diverse group of other entertainers and
so when they come in they have a different
perspective than what I have, which is kind
of cool.
But then I also have just lay people as

(48:51):
well that I've just formed friendships with
over the years, people that come to the
show often and I value their input as much
or more, because when we're designing these
things, oftentimes we're designing them
based on our own preferences, but what it
has to do is connect with an audience.
Magicians have a different way of thinking,
which sometimes you hear the phrase like

(49:12):
run without being chased, like those things.
So I like to hear just what people that
have no knowledge of magic have to say.
In fact, today I was having lunch with some
friends and they're not in the industry at
all.
I used the opportunity to say don't worry
about how a trick works.
That part is not important at the moment.

(49:33):
Just give me the craziest ideas for
something that you would just be blown away
to see, and what they gave me for ideas was
probably more valuable than if I had a
focus group of magicians that are useless
thinking just within the context of this.
You know, glass box.

Jonah (49:47):
So how did like, for example, the card
trick that you did or the Oreo thing that
you did is are those your inventions?
Are those magicians sharing ideas with you?
Is those you consulting with lay people?
Like they're?
They're pretty magic inventions, you know.
It's not like a lay person's like hey, you
could do this.

(50:07):
Like those, for example.
They just come from your ideas or people
that you are jamming with.
Where did those come from?

Reza (50:14):
yeah, originally the the oreo thing you
know was zaro, but then I made it.
It's my own original piece.
That was miles away from where it started.
The card trick I think the the root concept
there is, as any card at any number.
But I've just seen that trick in so many
different ways and all kind of just seems
like the same, the same trick, even though

(50:34):
there's different methods of player
different patter.
It's just, I just feel, feels redundant and
so I was like how can we approach this from
a different angle?
And it became I don't know if I want to say
too much about it, but a true magician,
fooler right, did you feel for sure?
for sure, for sure and not just once, but
maybe multiple times than that same trick.
Yeah, yeah.

(50:55):
So if you think back to it, do you even see
that as any card, any number?

Jonah (50:59):
The first half was an any card, any number,
and then the second half was not.

Reza (51:03):
Yeah, I mean.
So the first half, I think it's by surprise.
You don't see it coming.
Yes, right, it's like a byproduct of a
prediction.
But then you're using that moment as a
convincer of what the cards are.
And I mean we'll just say it as a convincer
of what the cards are.
And I mean we'll just say it.
So here's the kicker of it for people like
trying to like what are you even talking
about?
So, after the version of any card, any

(51:24):
number, I hand the card to a person and
there's two more cards that are selected
prior to this.
They're still in play but haven't been
revealed yet and I just start to kind of
waterfall the cards to the table and I
allow that person to throw their card face
up anywhere they want to inside the shuffle
deck that you just saw, all mixed up, and

(51:46):
you visibly see the card from their hands
go into the pack.
It never leaves your sight and wherever it
lands, it is now directly in between the
other two cards that were thought of.
So by concept, that seems like that would
be a pretty impossible trick, but we had to
figure out a way to still make it
entertaining by creating the routine.

(52:07):
And it starts on stage, it works in the
audience.
Now I'm in the audience with them, and so
it's kind of like following this ball.
Throughout this whole thing, and as all
this is happening, magical things are
taking place, versus just here, pick a card,
card and here it is.
I wanted to make this feel like a bit of a
journey was that?

Jonah (52:25):
your invention was that you and a couple of
magicians late night at a bar like you know
where.
Where does something like that come from,
which is pretty robust?

Reza (52:35):
so that will all fall out of my head.
I I didn't even I don't think consult with
one of their magician on that, but it took
me the better part of a year to land where
it where it landed.
But yeah, that one, it was all my idea, but
I did it a couple of different points
tested out on magicians and it's early

(52:56):
stages and it fooled them, and so that's
where I knew okay, I'm on the right track
with it here.

Jonah (53:03):
You know, some of these things are quite
robust.
I mean, like I can think to some of the
illusions and some of the predictions and
different things like that in the show so
far.
The two that I mentioned were are your
creations, Is it?
Is it just you each Like?
I know you said that you've got friends
that come to town and you've got lay people,
but like, is it mostly just you each night

(53:23):
going, hey, I wonder if this could be
sharper.
Or hey, I wonder what this could be?
Is there something else that I'm missing
that makes this show heck and helps it
improve?
Like, whoever it is 1% each show or each
week or whatever, Like, is there anything
other than you and the crew just looking at
it and and sharpening the saw that makes it?

Reza (53:43):
No Other than like when I meet people like
you, you notice, I didn't miss the
opportunity to pick your brain and invite
criticism.
Um, because normally people aren't going to
tell you bad things, are going to tell you
a good thing, no matter what they thought.
They're only going to tell you a good thing
no matter what they thought, but only until
you good things.
And so I like to kind of disarm people and
ask them for the criticism.
And I did that with you, is that right?

(54:04):
Yeah, yeah, give me your, give me your
notes.
So that's where I learned a lot.

Jonah (54:10):
You know what?
I think the thing that stood out to me the
most from the entire, from watching the
entire show, was how hardworking you I
don't want to just say are, but still are.
You know, like this many hundreds or
thousands or whatever shows into being in
branson and into the process and whatever,

(54:30):
like you're still staying up late to work
on new magic, you're still getting notes,
you're still sharpening the show.
Even the fact that you didn't do an
invisible deck but you did do a unique any
card number trick of your own creation is
like you know you could have done.
You know you could have easily filled it
with a card trick, with an invisible deck

(54:51):
slot or you know something else slot, but a
lot of these things you're really choosing
to go the extra mile and I think it really
makes a big difference.
Can you speak to this like extra mile kind
of thing here?
Like I'm sure you've seen a lot of
magicians where their shows are good enough,
you know, or the magic is like we'll do.

(55:11):
I think you're trying to exceed that.
Do you want to speak to that a little bit?

Reza (55:15):
Yeah, I think that just comes from just my,
my personality type.
It's always like there's room for
improvement, happiness be better.
It's kind of a curse and I feel like I'm
never satisfied, never just content go okay,
we did it, and now that it's done, it's a
constant evolution.
But yeah, I'm just, I'm just never, I'm

(55:36):
never ready to just say that's good enough,
I guess.
And that's where it comes from, and just
trying to understand the weakness of
performers in general.
I've seen a lot of performers and magicians
develop egos about things where they think
that that's good enough Because at the end
of the show the audience stood up and they

(55:56):
clapped for you.
Well, what happened?
Did the whole audience stood up and they
clapped for you?
Well, what happened?
Did the whole audience stand up and clap
for you?
No, four or five people really loved the
show and they stood up and it triggered the
rest of the people stand up.
Not everyone who was standing up and
clapping loved the show as much as the five
people.
After the show, most the people left, but
some of the people came to talk to you

(56:17):
afterwards.
They're the ones saying that was amazing.
That was incredible, like I loved it, that
was so cool.
But you're not hearing from the people who
just walked out, you're just hearing from
the cream of the crop, the best people and
some of those things I think kind of get in
your head.
You're like, okay, I created it, it's, it's
great.
Standing ovation.
People love the show.
I'm most interested in the people who

(56:38):
walked out right away or the last people to
stand up.
Why is that and how could they stand up
first?
How could they stay to be, you know?
So it's kind of like I don't want to label
myself as a pessimist, even though it
sounds like maybe I'm doing that, like the
glass is half empty, but I just love making
things better, I love refining things, and
that's probably where some of that comes
from.

Jonah (56:58):
Well, it really shows.
It's an amazing production and you know,
seeing behind the scenes of how many bits
and parts there are from grand illusion to
team, to filling the seats, to promotion,
to tech, to you know, everything just shows,
like, how many aspects there are that that

(57:20):
have those little tiny improvements that
you can spot and and I just thought the
whole thing was fabulous.
So big congrats to you for everything that
you've put together.
Before we get to the final wrap up
questions, my last question is you know,
however, many years ago, when you were in
high school, that you started doing these
touring shows and they were small and
slowly growing, and now it's a grand

(57:41):
illusion show that has a team and has
illusions that are traveling around the
world without you and storage and a theater
and all this stuff and a lot of that
potentially for a young magician, or even a
not young magician, feels like they're out
of reach, like these things feel like you
need a lot of capital and storage and this

(58:05):
and a team and a theater and all these
different things to do stuff of that
magnitude.
I hear a lot from magicians who travel with
a briefcase, you know, and travel with
stuff like that and yours is different.
You know and travel with stuff like that
and yours is is different.
What kind of advice do you have for a young
or aspiring magician who wants to get into
the big stuff, who wants to have grand

(58:26):
illusions, who wants to have a team, who
wants to have some of these big things?
How do they pull that sort of thing off in
2024?

Reza (58:34):
Yeah, I mean that's a great question.
I don't even know if I would do it all over
again the same way.
I think, if I was to do it, I would not
want all the big stuff.
I would.
I would personally and I don't know if this
is advice for others or just me reflecting
on my, my own, my own career you can make
small things, play big.

(58:55):
You can travel with you know one big video,
big video wall, a camera, and now you're
doing close-up miracles, but they're as big
as the biggest props in the show.
So I mean, my advice might be just find
ways to I hate to say it but pack small,
play big.
There's ways to do that.
But if you truly have the goal of having a

(59:18):
touring show, my strongest piece of advice
before you do it, go intern, go, go join a
show that's already doing that experience.
It is not an easy process to build it and
by the time you do build it you might find
out that it's not for you.
But if you go and you spend six months

(59:39):
being a part of that that's already been
developed, that's invaluable.
That'll tell you everything you need to
know.
Not only will you learn so much by doing
that, but you also learn if that's what you
want to do.

Jonah (59:51):
That's so helpful, and I think that your
thoughts about that maybe it's not what you
want to do is, like you know, the stuff
that really resonates with me, and I think
that illusion shows of the type that we are
referring to are fewer and fewer in between

(01:00:11):
now, because I think a lot of people know
that they can have a screen and close up
magic or you know things of that nature
that they pack small, that they play big.
So, even though you may be right that less
and less people will do it, or that maybe
you don't need it or whatever you know, I
am certainly grateful that there's people
like you that are doing them.
Even I went to see shows in Vegas and they
were great and great entertainers, but I

(01:00:33):
was, like you know, a little bummed out
that I went to Las Vegas to see a magic
show and there was two illusions, you know,
or something, in the show.
So it's really nice to be able to still see
those things in shows you know executed
really really well.
As we sort of enter the end of the podcast,
there's a couple of wrap up questions.
The first is about modern magic.

Reza (01:00:53):
What's one thing you like about what's
going on in the world of magic right now,
and one thing that you don't like you like
about what's going on in the world of magic
right now and one thing that you don't like
I mean what I don't like is when there's a
very strong piece of magic that then gets
run over by technology and now, or becomes,
even if it isn't the method that we're
using, people disregard magic because of

(01:01:20):
the advancement of technology.
Do you have an example?
I mean, the tree used to use is, like you
know, like inject, like the song in here
it's on my phone.
But now I mean the, the abilities of apps
in general.
It's just so far advanced that I think that
magic just kind of gets kind of put into a
oh, that was cool, but it's just something
that just just an app in the phone Mind
reading would be another example just kind
of gets kind of put into a oh, that was
cool, but it's just something that just
doesn't happen.

(01:01:41):
Mind reading would be another example.
There's so many ways to get and convey
information Like.
I had this trick in the show for a long
time.
There was a spray paint prediction where I
remember it was yeah, prediction was made
in spray paint.
Not only the fiction match, but the code
they use matched, like I said earlier, the
method that I had had nothing to do with

(01:02:03):
technology.
There was nothing on me, there was nothing
on the paint, there was nothing on
technology, but technology began existing.
That would allow that to be very, very
simple to do with something that everybody
knows about, and so I had to throw that
whole trick away because of that.

(01:02:24):
So I think that's going to be a thing
that's not going to get any easier, ai.
I'll give you one last example.
I made a creative trick as a kid where I
filmed myself every day for a year making a
prediction about the future, and so it'd be
on a dvd.
We I put it to play it about the future,
and so it'd be on a dvd.
We I put it to play it and it would.
It would be me saying one year in the
future, on this day, the next time this

(01:02:44):
video is played, I'm gonna meet this person,
this will be selected, this will be their
favorite thing, this is their middle name.
I go through it all.
What was cool about it is I didn't say one
year from now, even though that was the
trick that I was creating.
I said the next time this is played, which
allowed me to do that for multiple years,
and there became a time where I had aged
visibly, you know, five or 10 years into

(01:03:07):
the future, and then I was able to, on
stage, say I made this prediction 10 years
ago.
And there I am on the screen, visibly 10
years younger, making a prediction about 10
years in the future.
On that day, like who would invest?
Who would, you know, have the foresight to
think about making a prediction 10 years
from now, to begin this incredible concept?

(01:03:28):
Well, that got completely destroyed by AI,
because now you can download an app, you
take a picture of you as a kid, move the
lips, and now it says that miracle is no
longer a miracle.
So that there's one part of your question
what do I hate?
What do I love about magic?
Today, I guess the same is true, and I get

(01:03:50):
what the opposite is true.
There are things that are just absolute
miracles that I've been travened by.
Technology exists to be able to do these
things, but it's just temporary, because
the more people know, or more integrated
into our everyday lives, the harder it is
to impress people and fool people.

Jonah (01:04:09):
Love it.
I think it's cool that both of those things
are forefront of technology type things,
and you're the first person in like 50 that
their negative wasn't exposure on TikTok.
So that's, that's nice.
The the last thing is the endless chain.
So in order to keep the podcast going on
for eternity, each guest is asked to
recommend another guest.

(01:04:30):
That would be a good fit for the show.
There are two catches.
The first catch is that I have not
interviewed him already, and the second
catch is that you must be able to put us in
contact.
Who's one person that you think would be a
really good fit for this kind of
conversation?

Reza (01:04:44):
Ooh, I'm blindsided by that.
I don't have a chance to think about it,
it's just me on the spot.

Jonah (01:04:50):
Yeah, but I'll give you a layup and tell
you that I haven't interviewed any of the
magicians in Branson.
So that's a that's a layup If there's
someone there who you think I really should
speak to.

Reza (01:04:59):
Well, in my theater I have seven other
shows that play throughout the year while
I'm gone, so, like on certain days, I
actually have five shows a day, so I've got
some other performers that are incredible.
The winner of America's Got Talent season
16 is doing his show at my theater.
His name is Dustin Tin tabela and if you

(01:05:20):
haven't interviewed him, he's very
interesting on magic.
It's, the magic is the byproduct of what he
does.
Storytelling is at the forefront, the
motivational aspect, the faith-building
aspect, and then magic is also happening.
But what he's done with weaving these
stories and words and inspirational moments

(01:05:41):
throughout his life together to create this
art is incredible.
So I'd love to thank you guys.

Jonah (01:05:47):
Yeah, that'd be great.
His show was fantastic and I've already,
you know, begun in talks with him to record
one of these, so that's a fabulous one.
Thank you, I appreciate it, reza.
Any final words, comments or thoughts for
magicians around the world about you know
all the things that you're up to there in
Branson.

Reza (01:06:05):
Well, I mean, I opened the door for this
earlier and let me just extend an
invitation that, if you ever want to intern,
learn more about magic, to find a show, and
so let me make that an open invitation.
If anyone's listening to this and feels
that it could be beneficial, give me some
real-world experience.
I would love to connect, so reach out to me
on whatever social media.

(01:06:26):
Raise the Illusionist R-E-Z-A Illusionist
Facebook Instagram, all that good stuff,
and drop me a line.
I can be of help to anyone who is either
starting out in magic or at a place where
they want to expand or collaborate.
Wow.

Jonah (01:06:41):
What an amazing offer that somebody will
take you up on.
I know that for sure, reza.
Thank you so so much.
Thanks for putting on such a great show,
thanks for doing this interview with me and
sharing what you know, and a big thank you
to everybody for tuning in and listening
and being here.
Thanks so much for being here and I will

(01:07:02):
see you all next Thursday.
Ciao, my friends.
Well, there you have it.
I hope you learned something and I hope, of
course, that you enjoyed it.
Number one if you liked it, if you learned
something, please tell a friend.

(01:07:23):
Podcasts are funny.
You don't see them on YouTube, you don't
see them in different places.
People only know about them if someone told
you about them.
So tell someone about it and that way they
get to enjoy this too.
Number two if you want some help growing
your business.
Number two if you want some help growing
your business, especially this time of year
getting close to the holidays, you can send
me an email magic at torontomagiccompanycom

(01:07:44):
and I've got some goodies for you.
Thanks so much and have an amazing week.
Bye.