October 31, 2025 • 25 mins
Come and listen to our Host, Candace Gish, as she chats with today's guest, Dr. Allison Alford, for our "Season of Shift: Women on the Edge of Reinvention" Podcast Series.
This series spotlights women who used this reflective season (Oct–Dec) to make major life pivots—career changes, endings, spiritual awakenings, and brave beginnings.
Dr. Allison Alford is a communication expert, author, and speaker whose work centers on the often invisible roles women play in their families and communities—especially the overlooked labor of adult daughters. With a PhD and MA in Communication Studies from The University of Texas at Austin and nearly two decades of university-level teaching, Allison brings both academic depth and heartfelt clarity to every conversation about gender, identity, and relational responsibility.
Her forthcoming book, Good Daughtering (Dey Street Books/HarperCollins, 2026), invites readers to name and reframe the emotional, logistical, and cognitive labor daughters provide—labor that is deeply impactful yet rarely acknowledged. Drawing on years of qualitative research and hundreds of personal interviews, Allison offers a new vocabulary for understanding this powerful but often misunderstood role.
Currently a Clinical Associate Professor at Baylor University, Allison teaches communication and leadership to MBA and undergraduate students. She is known for her warm, thought- provoking style and is a sought-after guest for podcasts exploring motherhood, intergenerational relationships, feminist family studies, and women’s empowerment in midlife.
She lives in Texas with her husband and two teenagers and is currently booking podcast appearances and speaking engagements in anticipation of her upcoming book release.
Find Dr. Allison Alford online:
https://daughtering101.com/
https://www.facebook.com/p/Daughtering101-61564467700155/
Pre-order my book, Good Daughtering, out February 2026!
We explore the kinship shift—the moment adult daughters become the driving force of family connection—and how to honor care without “mothering your mother.” We name the third shift and share practical language to ease guilt, clarify roles, and communicate with grace.
• defining the kinship shift and changing power
• rejecting “mothering your mother” framing
• distance versus proximity and who does what
• four dimensions of daughtering: tasks, emotional, cognitive, identity
• tracing guilt to cultural scripts, not always parents
• the third shift and invisible labor at home and in community
• building shared language for family expectations
• one-bite-at-a-time communication for tough topics
• book details for Good Daughtering and social links
For more Divas That Care Network Episodes visit www.divasthatcare.com
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
SPEAKER_00 (00:00):
It's Divas the Care Radio.
Stories, strategies, and ideasto inspire positive change.
Welcome to Divas that Care, anetwork of women committed to
making our world a better placefor everyone.
This is a global movement forwomen, by women engaged in a
collaborative effort to create abetter world for future
generations.
(00:20):
To find out more about themovement, visit divasletcare.com
after the show.
Right now, though, stay tunedfor another jolt of inspiration.
SPEAKER_02 (00:31):
Well, hello everyone, and welcome back to
the Divasat Care.
My name is Candace Gish.
If this is your very first timetuning into the Divasat Care, a
huge, huge welcome to each andevery one of you.
We've been doing this now forover 15 years.
We are listening to in over 30countries around the world, and
it is because of our amazingguests, our tribe, our amazing
hosts on the network, and we'reso grateful to be doing this.
(00:54):
Um, and that's why we're so gladthat you've joined us because
we're hoping that you take thesecalls and you share them with as
many friends and family as youcan.
All right, we are going to beinterviewing and having on my
podcast a brand new Diva.
I'm beyond excited to have heron the show today.
Her name is Dr.
Alison Alford.
Alison, welcome to the Divas atCare.
SPEAKER_01 (01:14):
Thank you so much, Candace.
Thanks for having me here.
I feel like it's such an honorto join this elite cadre of
women who, you know, the guestswho come on here and talk about
all the things that reallymatter, that really matter to
our souls.
SPEAKER_02 (01:29):
Oh, thank you so much.
And we are beyond grateful thatyou're going to be here and
chatting with me today.
Alison, would you mind taking acouple of minutes here and
introducing yourself to ourlisteners?
SPEAKER_01 (01:40):
Absolutely.
Like you said, I am a doctor.
I have a PhD in communicationstudies, and I work as a
professor at Baylor Universitycurrently.
And my training is in familycommunication.
So for more than a decade now,I've been thinking about
researching and writing aboutthe role of adult daughters in
(02:05):
families.
So when I say adult daughters,I'm really looking at women in
their 20s, 30s, 40s, 50s, whohave a parent or more than one
parent, in-law, stepparent, etcetera, who are healthy and
independent.
And yet, as daughters, as women,we are still doing a lot of
(02:27):
care, love.
We're connecting with ourfamilies.
So I research what that's like,what women say about it, and why
women feel so strongly aboutthat role in our lives.
SPEAKER_02 (02:42):
Oh my goodness, that is absolutely beautiful.
Well, I'm excited because todaywe're going to be doing a
podcast and series called Seasonof Shift, Women on the Edge of
Reinvention.
And I think what we're going tobe talking today about really is
what you're going through andwhat you're talking about is the
shift.
SPEAKER_01 (03:01):
Yeah, that's such a um, it's it's such, you know,
kismet that we're talking aboutthis together because one of the
things that I describe in my newbook that's coming out next
year, um, called GoodDaughtering, I talk about
something that I call thekinship shift.
And the kinship shift is how aswe're growing and changing, and
(03:25):
our parent is getting older andchanging, the way that we relate
to each other through kinship,through our family dynamic, it
shifts over time and howimportant it is for us to kind
of visualize this shift over thedecades of middle adulthood and
(03:45):
into our parents' olderadulthood, and thinking about
what is it that becomesdifferent?
You know, when we are youngwomen, especially when we're
coming out of childhood and intoyoung adulthood, our parents,
our our mom or our dad orsomebody important to us, they
often have a really largepresence, especially with some
(04:08):
power dynamics and parenting.
Um I'm making my hands havethis, you know, big space.
And we have this kind of smallspace in our relationship.
We're still present, but we areuh maybe have a little bit less
power or less activity inmaintaining the connection.
But then over time, overdecades, as we get older and our
(04:32):
parents get older, ourparticipation grows and we
become a lot of times the largerpresence and the larger force of
making a family connection.
And our parents' level reduces.
So a key element of that,something I think is really
(04:52):
important, is that I reject thethought of mothering our mother,
that I'm now the mother, I'mmothering my parent.
Because ultimately we're neverever going to be the parent to
our parent, you know.
But I think what women aretrying to say is I'm doing more
of the care, I'm spending moreenergy, I'm a bigger presence,
(05:18):
and my parent is a bit of asmaller presence in this
connection, or they have asmaller capacity over time.
And so that really is thatshift, that shift that occurs
that's natural over a lifespan,but sometimes we forget to pause
and look at it and notice wow,things have really shifted in
(05:41):
this balance between us.
SPEAKER_02 (05:43):
I love how you just explained that.
But a question that I have is doyou find that there's a lot of
people that struggle with that,that have a hard time accepting
it?
SPEAKER_01 (05:55):
Yeah, there's a it's a great question, you know.
I think that um change is hardfor all of us.
And so when I talk to women, Ioften ask them, you know, what
when did you notice that yourrelationship with your mom
changed?
And some of us are like, oh,well, I just turned around one
(06:15):
day and I realized it wascompletely different.
So we we're not always very goodat noticing the small shifting
over time.
We turn around and think, oh mygosh, things between us are just
radically different than theywere when I was 25.
And so we don't see it untilwe're almost past this threshold
(06:38):
of where we feel like we haveany control over it.
So we can feel a little bitpowerless.
And sometimes when we noticethat a relationship has changed
with our parent, we can alsodecide, I don't like this.
I don't want to be the one who'skind of in charge in this
relationship.
I don't want to be the one whohas to decide everything, do
(07:01):
everything, show up all thetime.
I'd really like to go back tobeing the in the easier, smaller
role, but that's not what lifehas handed us.
Um, so part of what is hard forwomen is having a new and
different role as we shift withour parents over a lifespan.
(07:22):
And the other part is sometimesgrieving that we don't get to be
the carefree version ofourselves that we used to be,
and now we have to be moreresponsible and spend more
effort, energy, and resources onour family connections.
SPEAKER_02 (07:40):
Can I ask you, is it different with people that are
like if your mothers are closeto you in the fact
geographically, or if people arefarther away that you don't see
them as much?
SPEAKER_01 (07:53):
Absolutely.
The research shows that theperson who's most likely to care
for elders in in their elderlyyears is the child who's
closest.
And that could be a daughter ora son.
Um, but if it's daughter, ifthere's a daughter and a son
available, it'll be the daughteror the daughter-in-law, right?
(08:14):
But I think that what's soimportant for us to be aware of
is that even when you're faraway geographically, or even if
you are far away, meaning youdon't feel close to your parent,
you don't have an easierfriendly connection with them,
you are still doing daughtering.
(08:36):
And so what I found in myresearch is that when daughters
think of doing daughtering,which daughtering is what women
do in the relationship with ourparents to keep the family
connected.
When you ask women aboutdaughtering, most people respond
with tasks.
Tasks are things like, I wentover to her house and took a
(08:58):
meal, I planned a holiday event,I um fixed her Netflix because
the remote control wasn'tworking, um, a lot of tasks.
But then as you start to havethese deeper discussions, you
begin to un you know, to peelback the layers, and women start
talking about a lot of otherforms of daughtering that we're
(09:21):
doing.
So um I think of the the waythat we do daughtering in four
different ways.
So the first one is tasks thatwe do.
That's just physically showingup, doing something, or even
paying for something.
The second thing that we do isemotional.
There's a lot of emotionalaspect to being a daughter.
(09:43):
And that is listening, soothing.
Maybe it means avoiding anargument or going to battle for
your parent, you know, with AuntSusie, who's making her upset,
and you go, you know, deal withthat for her.
Um the third way is cognitive orthinking.
(10:04):
A lot of being a daughter isabout thinking about your
parent.
It could be worrying, it couldbe planning for the far distant
future.
You know, maybe a listener who'slistening right now, they're 30
years old and their parent is 52and they're in great health,
they travel, they work, they arefine, they're independent, but
(10:25):
you're already thinking aboutwhat they'll need in two
decades, and you're planning andyou're saving money.
And um, so there's thinkingwork.
And the last category ofdaughtering is identity work.
So, how am I a daughter, whethermy parent is around or not?
(10:45):
What makes me feel like adaughter?
How do I represent our family?
How do I keep our legacy going?
And so your question, Candace,was really about how do
daughters, you know, what'sdifferent with daughters who
live farther awaygeographically?
And I would say those daughtersare still doing a lot of
(11:06):
daughtering, but maybe more onthe emotional, cognitive, and
identity side, whereas thedaughters who live nearby are
doing a lot of the tasks.
So I want to charge each of yourlisteners to think about what is
it that I'm doing?
What are all the ways that I cansee daughtering showing up in my
(11:26):
life?
And I want to give myself creditfor how that takes up my energy
and my resources and my mentalspace to give that type of um
benefit to my parent and to ourfamily.
SPEAKER_02 (11:40):
Well, that's wonderful.
I think a lot of people feelguilty if they're not close to
their parents.
For example, my mom and I don'tlive close to each other, but I
really want to be there, but Ican't be there.
So I think I'm then I'm for I'mthere for her um when she needs
me, but not to do the thingsthat I'd like to do for her.
SPEAKER_01 (11:58):
Yeah, that is the so true of so many women.
You know, we want to be close toour parents, our mom, our dad,
or it could be our in-laws, ourstepparents.
And yet we can't always livegeographically near to where the
people are, so that we can'tjust do things like let's go
(12:18):
have a shopping day, or let's gohave a coffee chat, or um, you
know, let me help you clean outyour closets.
And um, it can make us feelguilty, especially if we have a
sibling who is doing thosethings and we feel like, oh man,
they either get to do it, or wefeel bad, like you're doing all
(12:38):
the work and I'm not doinganything.
Um, and what I again say todaughters is the first step is
thinking about all the wonderfulthings that you are doing.
Um, because daughters, what I'vefound often struggle feeling
like I'm not good enough, I'mnot doing enough, I'm not
showing up enough, and um justthis feeling of not enoughness.
(13:04):
And in order to combat that, wehave to start to see daughtering
in a whole new way.
We have to start to recognizeand give ourselves credit for
the ways that we are thinking ofour parent, loving our parent,
planning for our parent, sendingthings, doing money, and really
(13:25):
doing a lot of emotion work.
So in my family, my sister livesdown the street from my parents.
That means that she gets to do alot of other things with them
that I don't get to do because Idon't live there.
Um, but I am really clear aboutgiving myself credit for what I
(13:46):
do well.
And what I do well is reallygood phone calls.
And I tell stories and I laughand I ask questions like, hey,
mom, can you help me with myplants?
What should I feed this plant?
What kind of water or sunlightdoes it need?
Yeah.
And I do those things well, andI give myself credit for
(14:09):
offering something in thatrelationship that's special.
SPEAKER_02 (14:12):
Oh my goodness, Allison.
This is actually a reallywonderful call.
And the fact that it almostfeels like you're alleviating
the guilt.
Thank you so much.
SPEAKER_01 (14:22):
Yeah, I think that you're right.
There's a lot of guilt indaughtering, and we should ask
ourselves where that comes from,you know, because um, another
important thing to notice isit's not necessarily coming from
your mom or your dad.
They're not necessarily the oneswho feel bad about you living
your dream and off having abeautiful life.
(14:43):
Sometimes it's coming to us froma societal message that
daughters are supposed to dostuff.
We're supposed to show up, we'resupposed to do more and be there
and um be this little, you know,caring person who's giving a
certain amount of hours orcertain amount of visits.
(15:04):
And we should really probe thatand say, where does that come
from?
And do I agree with that?
And can I give myself credit forother ways that I show up?
And can I even have aconversation with my parents and
find out maybe they don't evenwant that from me?
And I am just making it up andmaking myself feel bad because
(15:29):
I've absorbed these messagesfrom TV or movies or the news.
But our particular familydoesn't have to look like every
other family.
We can negotiate what's rightfor us.
SPEAKER_02 (15:42):
That's beautiful, absolutely beautiful.
I love that.
Um, and you were mentioning inyour book that there's different
types of shifts.
And I'd like to briefly talkabout third shift, if you don't
mind.
SPEAKER_01 (15:55):
Yes, this is a different kind of shift, the
third shift.
Yeah, I think this is afascinating topic.
So the third shift is um is notsomething I came up with, but it
has been documented andresearched by feminist um
writers.
So if we think of um this time,we're thinking of shift in terms
of work.
So we have salaried work or wehave shift work.
(16:17):
Okay.
And so writers talked about howthere's the first shift of your
day.
I go to my job, and then thesecond shift, I get off of work
and I go home and I make dinnerand take care of the family and
I take care of the house.
So we have our first shift ofthe day, our second shift of the
day, and then we have what thesefeminist writers talk about,
(16:40):
which is the third shift, whichis extra stuff that women are
expected to do without gettingany credit for it.
And the third shift, or the thethe rest of the stuff we have to
do often includes caring for ourparents, participating in our
community, taking care of ourneighbors, thinking of extended
(17:03):
family members, and these arewhat we might call invisible
labor.
So they're things that women aresupposed to be doing, know how
to do, be good at doing, butyou're definitely not getting
paid for them.
And you have to get them alldone before you can go to sleep.
(17:24):
But if we only think about thework that that we do in terms of
work, you know, business careerstuff and home stuff, house
stuff, then we're missing thishuge area where women expend our
resources.
And of course, we're not here tobash men, um, but we can also
(17:46):
notice that men don't do as muchof that third shift as women do.
And often men don't even do asmuch of the second shift, which
is the household work, thecooking, the cleaning, the
childcare, the um tending torelationships.
So men are allowed really tofocus more on their first shift,
which is their career, and thenthey can relax a little bit.
(18:10):
And women are not only expectedto excel at our first shift, but
also the second shift and thethird shift.
So, what's important about thisconcept is for your listeners to
think about, gee, I'm reallydoing a lot of stuff.
And I had not given myselfcredit for how it takes up space
(18:33):
in my brain, how it takes hoursout of the day, how I make phone
calls and have to speak topeople like the neighbor next
door and be uh congenial anddelighted, and I have to be
upbeat.
And um, these things can drainmy resources.
Now, we're not saying, you and Iare not saying here that all of
(18:57):
these things are bad, right?
Getting to go to a career job isa privilege.
Getting to have kids and afamily and a home, it's
beautiful.
It's a privilege.
We love being married and havingthese things.
And getting to be a neighbor anda community member and an adult
daughter is a beautifulprivilege.
All we're saying here is let'snotice how much work it is and
(19:20):
just give ourselves credit forthat so that we're not wandering
around feeling like people whoare never doing enough and and
you know, are bashing ourselves.
SPEAKER_02 (19:31):
Yeah.
I I like that because you do.
You sometimes you feel that youyou're constantly doing
something.
I found that when I was younger,there was a lot more people that
would be involved in things.
And I find that nowadays youdon't see that as much.
And I always wonder do peoplefeel that animosity?
Do they feel like they don'twant to because now they feel
(19:51):
like they're doing too much?
Yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (19:53):
You know, you're highlighting something so
important, Candace, which isthat we struggle to talk about
things when we don't have thelanguage or the nuance or the
little words for what we'retrying to describe.
Like you're saying that you goout and you volunteer and give
your time because it makes youfeel good.
(20:13):
It makes you feel like you havea deeper sense of purpose and it
benefits your life.
Um, but then when you talk aboutit with your husband, or we're
talking about it now, it can bekind of like, I'm not sure if
I'm saying it right, or I don'tknow if I'm getting my whole
point across.
And what that reveals is that wedon't have enough good words for
(20:34):
talking about the nuances, thecareful little bits of what's
important in our lives as women.
And particularly, we we don'thave enough language for talking
about how we do daughtering andfamilies or how we're doing
daughtering as a communitymember to our elder neighbor or
(20:56):
to our um you know aunties inthe community, and how giving to
others is a purposeful,soul-fulfilling thing.
And so um maybe there's been ashift in our culture to um, you
know, where people approach thisdifferently.
I don't know, I couldn't saybecause I haven't done the
(21:18):
research on that, but what I cansay is that we can shift our own
mindsets about how we show up inour lives and what's important
to us and where we're spendingour time and energy if we
communicate about it with ourloved ones.
So taking the time to talk toour family members about what's
(21:40):
meaningful to us, here's how Ishow up in my family, here's
why.
Talking to our siblings abouthow we show up for our parents
or how we show up in the biggroup.
So the more that we talk abouthow we want to show up in our
lives, the more that we gain thelanguage, the nuance, the
(22:01):
understanding of those smallmoments, and we can come
together and really know eachother better, feel better,
remove that guilt, feel likewe're doing enough, feel like
we're getting credit for whatwe're doing, and um demonstrate
that even though I'm talkingabout labor and work, I'm also
(22:22):
talking about love.
I love my parents, I love mycommunity, I love showing up for
others.
So it's like I'm trying to justtalk about it in a multifaceted
way.
I'm not trying to complain aboutit, I'm just talking about it.
And we need that shift intodiscussing things that are
important to us and usinglanguage that's important to us.
(22:44):
And um, that's something I talkabout in the book.
Uh, the book is uh GoodDaughtering, and it comes out in
February of 2026.
And I just know that it has somuch language and insights, and
it also has activities in therethat would really help your
listeners to explore theirrelationships.
SPEAKER_02 (23:02):
Oh, thank you so much, Allison.
This is beautiful.
Do you have social media that umour listeners can go and check
out so they can get a copy ofthe book when it does come out?
SPEAKER_01 (23:14):
Absolutely.
So the book is good daughtering.
You can pre-order it at anytime.
It's already up there on Amazonand all of those links.
Um, and my social media is atDaughtering101.
So website, Instagram, TikTok,Facebook for Daughtering 101.
And um I've got all the newsabout how the book drops, and I
(23:36):
would love for your listeners toget a hold of it.
SPEAKER_02 (23:38):
Oh, that's wonderful.
And a last-minute thing,Allison.
So I always ask our amazingguests if they have any tips,
any tools, things they want toleave our listeners with today
to maybe inspire them.
SPEAKER_01 (23:51):
Yes, I would love to share with your listeners one of
my tips, and that is for how tocommunicate with your loved
ones.
You know, sometimes it can be umfeel like a big task to try to
get things across to otherpeople.
And maybe you are um, you know,missing them.
So you send this big long textmessage, or maybe you're in an
(24:15):
argument a little bit, or maybethere's something important you
want to talk about.
And people approach theseconversations as these big
things that we need to getacross.
And my tip to you is take it onebite at a time.
You can't eat a whole pizza byshoving the whole thing in your
mouth.
So just take one bite at a timeand recognize that healthy
(24:35):
relationships, effectiverelationships are about
communicating just a little bitat a time.
And as a daughter, the more youshow up one bite at a time over
time, the better thatrelationship will get.
And it will benefit you, it willbenefit your parents, your
siblings, and ultimately itbenefits society when we have
strong families.
SPEAKER_02 (24:57):
That is a great tip.
Thank you so much.
I had such a great time chattingwith you today.
SPEAKER_01 (25:02):
Thank you so much, Candace.
I really love being here andchatting with you.
SPEAKER_02 (25:05):
Wonderful.
And a huge shout out to all ofour amazing listeners.
I want you guys too to know howmuch we appreciate each and
every one of you.
Please take this, send it toyour friends and family.
Um, also, all of you, make sureyou do something kind today.
The world has a lot of ups anddowns right now.
And the Divas That Care is allabout promoting kindness and
respect for one another.
(25:26):
So please go out there and dosomething kind for somebody.
Until next time, everyone.
SPEAKER_00 (25:31):
Thanks for listening.
This show was brought to you byDivas That Care.
Connect with us on Facebook, onInstagram, and of course on
divas that care.com, where youcan subscribe to our newsletter
so you don't miss a thing.
It's Divas the Care Radio.
Stories, strategies, and ideasto inspire positive change.
Welcome to Divas that Care, anetwork of women committed to
making our world a better placefor everyone.
This is a global movement forwomen, by women engaged in a
collaborative effort to create abetter world for future
generations.
(00:20):
To find out more about themovement, visit divasletcare.com
after the show.
Right now, though, stay tunedfor another jolt of inspiration.
SPEAKER_02 (00:31):
Well, hello everyone, and welcome back to
the Divasat Care.
My name is Candace Gish.
If this is your very first timetuning into the Divasat Care, a
huge, huge welcome to each andevery one of you.
We've been doing this now forover 15 years.
We are listening to in over 30countries around the world, and
it is because of our amazingguests, our tribe, our amazing
hosts on the network, and we'reso grateful to be doing this.
(00:54):
Um, and that's why we're so gladthat you've joined us because
we're hoping that you take thesecalls and you share them with as
many friends and family as youcan.
All right, we are going to beinterviewing and having on my
podcast a brand new Diva.
I'm beyond excited to have heron the show today.
Her name is Dr.
Alison Alford.
Alison, welcome to the Divas atCare.
SPEAKER_01 (01:14):
Thank you so much, Candace.
Thanks for having me here.
I feel like it's such an honorto join this elite cadre of
women who, you know, the guestswho come on here and talk about
all the things that reallymatter, that really matter to
our souls.
SPEAKER_02 (01:29):
Oh, thank you so much.
And we are beyond grateful thatyou're going to be here and
chatting with me today.
Alison, would you mind taking acouple of minutes here and
introducing yourself to ourlisteners?
SPEAKER_01 (01:40):
Absolutely.
Like you said, I am a doctor.
I have a PhD in communicationstudies, and I work as a
professor at Baylor Universitycurrently.
And my training is in familycommunication.
So for more than a decade now,I've been thinking about
researching and writing aboutthe role of adult daughters in
(02:05):
families.
So when I say adult daughters,I'm really looking at women in
their 20s, 30s, 40s, 50s, whohave a parent or more than one
parent, in-law, stepparent, etcetera, who are healthy and
independent.
And yet, as daughters, as women,we are still doing a lot of
(02:27):
care, love.
We're connecting with ourfamilies.
So I research what that's like,what women say about it, and why
women feel so strongly aboutthat role in our lives.
SPEAKER_02 (02:42):
Oh my goodness, that is absolutely beautiful.
Well, I'm excited because todaywe're going to be doing a
podcast and series called Seasonof Shift, Women on the Edge of
Reinvention.
And I think what we're going tobe talking today about really is
what you're going through andwhat you're talking about is the
shift.
SPEAKER_01 (03:01):
Yeah, that's such a um, it's it's such, you know,
kismet that we're talking aboutthis together because one of the
things that I describe in my newbook that's coming out next
year, um, called GoodDaughtering, I talk about
something that I call thekinship shift.
And the kinship shift is how aswe're growing and changing, and
(03:25):
our parent is getting older andchanging, the way that we relate
to each other through kinship,through our family dynamic, it
shifts over time and howimportant it is for us to kind
of visualize this shift over thedecades of middle adulthood and
(03:45):
into our parents' olderadulthood, and thinking about
what is it that becomesdifferent?
You know, when we are youngwomen, especially when we're
coming out of childhood and intoyoung adulthood, our parents,
our our mom or our dad orsomebody important to us, they
often have a really largepresence, especially with some
(04:08):
power dynamics and parenting.
Um I'm making my hands havethis, you know, big space.
And we have this kind of smallspace in our relationship.
We're still present, but we areuh maybe have a little bit less
power or less activity inmaintaining the connection.
But then over time, overdecades, as we get older and our
(04:32):
parents get older, ourparticipation grows and we
become a lot of times the largerpresence and the larger force of
making a family connection.
And our parents' level reduces.
So a key element of that,something I think is really
(04:52):
important, is that I reject thethought of mothering our mother,
that I'm now the mother, I'mmothering my parent.
Because ultimately we're neverever going to be the parent to
our parent, you know.
But I think what women aretrying to say is I'm doing more
of the care, I'm spending moreenergy, I'm a bigger presence,
(05:18):
and my parent is a bit of asmaller presence in this
connection, or they have asmaller capacity over time.
And so that really is thatshift, that shift that occurs
that's natural over a lifespan,but sometimes we forget to pause
and look at it and notice wow,things have really shifted in
(05:41):
this balance between us.
SPEAKER_02 (05:43):
I love how you just explained that.
But a question that I have is doyou find that there's a lot of
people that struggle with that,that have a hard time accepting
it?
SPEAKER_01 (05:55):
Yeah, there's a it's a great question, you know.
I think that um change is hardfor all of us.
And so when I talk to women, Ioften ask them, you know, what
when did you notice that yourrelationship with your mom
changed?
And some of us are like, oh,well, I just turned around one
(06:15):
day and I realized it wascompletely different.
So we we're not always very goodat noticing the small shifting
over time.
We turn around and think, oh mygosh, things between us are just
radically different than theywere when I was 25.
And so we don't see it untilwe're almost past this threshold
(06:38):
of where we feel like we haveany control over it.
So we can feel a little bitpowerless.
And sometimes when we noticethat a relationship has changed
with our parent, we can alsodecide, I don't like this.
I don't want to be the one who'skind of in charge in this
relationship.
I don't want to be the one whohas to decide everything, do
(07:01):
everything, show up all thetime.
I'd really like to go back tobeing the in the easier, smaller
role, but that's not what lifehas handed us.
Um, so part of what is hard forwomen is having a new and
different role as we shift withour parents over a lifespan.
(07:22):
And the other part is sometimesgrieving that we don't get to be
the carefree version ofourselves that we used to be,
and now we have to be moreresponsible and spend more
effort, energy, and resources onour family connections.
SPEAKER_02 (07:40):
Can I ask you, is it different with people that are
like if your mothers are closeto you in the fact
geographically, or if people arefarther away that you don't see
them as much?
SPEAKER_01 (07:53):
Absolutely.
The research shows that theperson who's most likely to care
for elders in in their elderlyyears is the child who's
closest.
And that could be a daughter ora son.
Um, but if it's daughter, ifthere's a daughter and a son
available, it'll be the daughteror the daughter-in-law, right?
(08:14):
But I think that what's soimportant for us to be aware of
is that even when you're faraway geographically, or even if
you are far away, meaning youdon't feel close to your parent,
you don't have an easierfriendly connection with them,
you are still doing daughtering.
(08:36):
And so what I found in myresearch is that when daughters
think of doing daughtering,which daughtering is what women
do in the relationship with ourparents to keep the family
connected.
When you ask women aboutdaughtering, most people respond
with tasks.
Tasks are things like, I wentover to her house and took a
(08:58):
meal, I planned a holiday event,I um fixed her Netflix because
the remote control wasn'tworking, um, a lot of tasks.
But then as you start to havethese deeper discussions, you
begin to un you know, to peelback the layers, and women start
talking about a lot of otherforms of daughtering that we're
(09:21):
doing.
So um I think of the the waythat we do daughtering in four
different ways.
So the first one is tasks thatwe do.
That's just physically showingup, doing something, or even
paying for something.
The second thing that we do isemotional.
There's a lot of emotionalaspect to being a daughter.
(09:43):
And that is listening, soothing.
Maybe it means avoiding anargument or going to battle for
your parent, you know, with AuntSusie, who's making her upset,
and you go, you know, deal withthat for her.
Um the third way is cognitive orthinking.
(10:04):
A lot of being a daughter isabout thinking about your
parent.
It could be worrying, it couldbe planning for the far distant
future.
You know, maybe a listener who'slistening right now, they're 30
years old and their parent is 52and they're in great health,
they travel, they work, they arefine, they're independent, but
(10:25):
you're already thinking aboutwhat they'll need in two
decades, and you're planning andyou're saving money.
And um, so there's thinkingwork.
And the last category ofdaughtering is identity work.
So, how am I a daughter, whethermy parent is around or not?
(10:45):
What makes me feel like adaughter?
How do I represent our family?
How do I keep our legacy going?
And so your question, Candace,was really about how do
daughters, you know, what'sdifferent with daughters who
live farther awaygeographically?
And I would say those daughtersare still doing a lot of
(11:06):
daughtering, but maybe more onthe emotional, cognitive, and
identity side, whereas thedaughters who live nearby are
doing a lot of the tasks.
So I want to charge each of yourlisteners to think about what is
it that I'm doing?
What are all the ways that I cansee daughtering showing up in my
(11:26):
life?
And I want to give myself creditfor how that takes up my energy
and my resources and my mentalspace to give that type of um
benefit to my parent and to ourfamily.
SPEAKER_02 (11:40):
Well, that's wonderful.
I think a lot of people feelguilty if they're not close to
their parents.
For example, my mom and I don'tlive close to each other, but I
really want to be there, but Ican't be there.
So I think I'm then I'm for I'mthere for her um when she needs
me, but not to do the thingsthat I'd like to do for her.
SPEAKER_01 (11:58):
Yeah, that is the so true of so many women.
You know, we want to be close toour parents, our mom, our dad,
or it could be our in-laws, ourstepparents.
And yet we can't always livegeographically near to where the
people are, so that we can'tjust do things like let's go
(12:18):
have a shopping day, or let's gohave a coffee chat, or um, you
know, let me help you clean outyour closets.
And um, it can make us feelguilty, especially if we have a
sibling who is doing thosethings and we feel like, oh man,
they either get to do it, or wefeel bad, like you're doing all
(12:38):
the work and I'm not doinganything.
Um, and what I again say todaughters is the first step is
thinking about all the wonderfulthings that you are doing.
Um, because daughters, what I'vefound often struggle feeling
like I'm not good enough, I'mnot doing enough, I'm not
showing up enough, and um justthis feeling of not enoughness.
(13:04):
And in order to combat that, wehave to start to see daughtering
in a whole new way.
We have to start to recognizeand give ourselves credit for
the ways that we are thinking ofour parent, loving our parent,
planning for our parent, sendingthings, doing money, and really
(13:25):
doing a lot of emotion work.
So in my family, my sister livesdown the street from my parents.
That means that she gets to do alot of other things with them
that I don't get to do because Idon't live there.
Um, but I am really clear aboutgiving myself credit for what I
(13:46):
do well.
And what I do well is reallygood phone calls.
And I tell stories and I laughand I ask questions like, hey,
mom, can you help me with myplants?
What should I feed this plant?
What kind of water or sunlightdoes it need?
Yeah.
And I do those things well, andI give myself credit for
(14:09):
offering something in thatrelationship that's special.
SPEAKER_02 (14:12):
Oh my goodness, Allison.
This is actually a reallywonderful call.
And the fact that it almostfeels like you're alleviating
the guilt.
Thank you so much.
SPEAKER_01 (14:22):
Yeah, I think that you're right.
There's a lot of guilt indaughtering, and we should ask
ourselves where that comes from,you know, because um, another
important thing to notice isit's not necessarily coming from
your mom or your dad.
They're not necessarily the oneswho feel bad about you living
your dream and off having abeautiful life.
(14:43):
Sometimes it's coming to us froma societal message that
daughters are supposed to dostuff.
We're supposed to show up, we'resupposed to do more and be there
and um be this little, you know,caring person who's giving a
certain amount of hours orcertain amount of visits.
(15:04):
And we should really probe thatand say, where does that come
from?
And do I agree with that?
And can I give myself credit forother ways that I show up?
And can I even have aconversation with my parents and
find out maybe they don't evenwant that from me?
And I am just making it up andmaking myself feel bad because
(15:29):
I've absorbed these messagesfrom TV or movies or the news.
But our particular familydoesn't have to look like every
other family.
We can negotiate what's rightfor us.
SPEAKER_02 (15:42):
That's beautiful, absolutely beautiful.
I love that.
Um, and you were mentioning inyour book that there's different
types of shifts.
And I'd like to briefly talkabout third shift, if you don't
mind.
SPEAKER_01 (15:55):
Yes, this is a different kind of shift, the
third shift.
Yeah, I think this is afascinating topic.
So the third shift is um is notsomething I came up with, but it
has been documented andresearched by feminist um
writers.
So if we think of um this time,we're thinking of shift in terms
of work.
So we have salaried work or wehave shift work.
(16:17):
Okay.
And so writers talked about howthere's the first shift of your
day.
I go to my job, and then thesecond shift, I get off of work
and I go home and I make dinnerand take care of the family and
I take care of the house.
So we have our first shift ofthe day, our second shift of the
day, and then we have what thesefeminist writers talk about,
(16:40):
which is the third shift, whichis extra stuff that women are
expected to do without gettingany credit for it.
And the third shift, or the thethe rest of the stuff we have to
do often includes caring for ourparents, participating in our
community, taking care of ourneighbors, thinking of extended
(17:03):
family members, and these arewhat we might call invisible
labor.
So they're things that women aresupposed to be doing, know how
to do, be good at doing, butyou're definitely not getting
paid for them.
And you have to get them alldone before you can go to sleep.
(17:24):
But if we only think about thework that that we do in terms of
work, you know, business careerstuff and home stuff, house
stuff, then we're missing thishuge area where women expend our
resources.
And of course, we're not here tobash men, um, but we can also
(17:46):
notice that men don't do as muchof that third shift as women do.
And often men don't even do asmuch of the second shift, which
is the household work, thecooking, the cleaning, the
childcare, the um tending torelationships.
So men are allowed really tofocus more on their first shift,
which is their career, and thenthey can relax a little bit.
(18:10):
And women are not only expectedto excel at our first shift, but
also the second shift and thethird shift.
So, what's important about thisconcept is for your listeners to
think about, gee, I'm reallydoing a lot of stuff.
And I had not given myselfcredit for how it takes up space
(18:33):
in my brain, how it takes hoursout of the day, how I make phone
calls and have to speak topeople like the neighbor next
door and be uh congenial anddelighted, and I have to be
upbeat.
And um, these things can drainmy resources.
Now, we're not saying, you and Iare not saying here that all of
(18:57):
these things are bad, right?
Getting to go to a career job isa privilege.
Getting to have kids and afamily and a home, it's
beautiful.
It's a privilege.
We love being married and havingthese things.
And getting to be a neighbor anda community member and an adult
daughter is a beautifulprivilege.
All we're saying here is let'snotice how much work it is and
(19:20):
just give ourselves credit forthat so that we're not wandering
around feeling like people whoare never doing enough and and
you know, are bashing ourselves.
SPEAKER_02 (19:31):
Yeah.
I I like that because you do.
You sometimes you feel that youyou're constantly doing
something.
I found that when I was younger,there was a lot more people that
would be involved in things.
And I find that nowadays youdon't see that as much.
And I always wonder do peoplefeel that animosity?
Do they feel like they don'twant to because now they feel
(19:51):
like they're doing too much?
Yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (19:53):
You know, you're highlighting something so
important, Candace, which isthat we struggle to talk about
things when we don't have thelanguage or the nuance or the
little words for what we'retrying to describe.
Like you're saying that you goout and you volunteer and give
your time because it makes youfeel good.
(20:13):
It makes you feel like you havea deeper sense of purpose and it
benefits your life.
Um, but then when you talk aboutit with your husband, or we're
talking about it now, it can bekind of like, I'm not sure if
I'm saying it right, or I don'tknow if I'm getting my whole
point across.
And what that reveals is that wedon't have enough good words for
(20:34):
talking about the nuances, thecareful little bits of what's
important in our lives as women.
And particularly, we we don'thave enough language for talking
about how we do daughtering andfamilies or how we're doing
daughtering as a communitymember to our elder neighbor or
(20:56):
to our um you know aunties inthe community, and how giving to
others is a purposeful,soul-fulfilling thing.
And so um maybe there's been ashift in our culture to um, you
know, where people approach thisdifferently.
I don't know, I couldn't saybecause I haven't done the
(21:18):
research on that, but what I cansay is that we can shift our own
mindsets about how we show up inour lives and what's important
to us and where we're spendingour time and energy if we
communicate about it with ourloved ones.
So taking the time to talk toour family members about what's
(21:40):
meaningful to us, here's how Ishow up in my family, here's
why.
Talking to our siblings abouthow we show up for our parents
or how we show up in the biggroup.
So the more that we talk abouthow we want to show up in our
lives, the more that we gain thelanguage, the nuance, the
(22:01):
understanding of those smallmoments, and we can come
together and really know eachother better, feel better,
remove that guilt, feel likewe're doing enough, feel like
we're getting credit for whatwe're doing, and um demonstrate
that even though I'm talkingabout labor and work, I'm also
(22:22):
talking about love.
I love my parents, I love mycommunity, I love showing up for
others.
So it's like I'm trying to justtalk about it in a multifaceted
way.
I'm not trying to complain aboutit, I'm just talking about it.
And we need that shift intodiscussing things that are
important to us and usinglanguage that's important to us.
(22:44):
And um, that's something I talkabout in the book.
Uh, the book is uh GoodDaughtering, and it comes out in
February of 2026.
And I just know that it has somuch language and insights, and
it also has activities in therethat would really help your
listeners to explore theirrelationships.
SPEAKER_02 (23:02):
Oh, thank you so much, Allison.
This is beautiful.
Do you have social media that umour listeners can go and check
out so they can get a copy ofthe book when it does come out?
SPEAKER_01 (23:14):
Absolutely.
So the book is good daughtering.
You can pre-order it at anytime.
It's already up there on Amazonand all of those links.
Um, and my social media is atDaughtering101.
So website, Instagram, TikTok,Facebook for Daughtering 101.
And um I've got all the newsabout how the book drops, and I
(23:36):
would love for your listeners toget a hold of it.
SPEAKER_02 (23:38):
Oh, that's wonderful.
And a last-minute thing,Allison.
So I always ask our amazingguests if they have any tips,
any tools, things they want toleave our listeners with today
to maybe inspire them.
SPEAKER_01 (23:51):
Yes, I would love to share with your listeners one of
my tips, and that is for how tocommunicate with your loved
ones.
You know, sometimes it can be umfeel like a big task to try to
get things across to otherpeople.
And maybe you are um, you know,missing them.
So you send this big long textmessage, or maybe you're in an
(24:15):
argument a little bit, or maybethere's something important you
want to talk about.
And people approach theseconversations as these big
things that we need to getacross.
And my tip to you is take it onebite at a time.
You can't eat a whole pizza byshoving the whole thing in your
mouth.
So just take one bite at a timeand recognize that healthy
(24:35):
relationships, effectiverelationships are about
communicating just a little bitat a time.
And as a daughter, the more youshow up one bite at a time over
time, the better thatrelationship will get.
And it will benefit you, it willbenefit your parents, your
siblings, and ultimately itbenefits society when we have
strong families.
SPEAKER_02 (24:57):
That is a great tip.
Thank you so much.
I had such a great time chattingwith you today.
SPEAKER_01 (25:02):
Thank you so much, Candace.
I really love being here andchatting with you.
SPEAKER_02 (25:05):
Wonderful.
And a huge shout out to all ofour amazing listeners.
I want you guys too to know howmuch we appreciate each and
every one of you.
Please take this, send it toyour friends and family.
Um, also, all of you, make sureyou do something kind today.
The world has a lot of ups anddowns right now.
And the Divas That Care is allabout promoting kindness and
respect for one another.
(25:26):
So please go out there and dosomething kind for somebody.
Until next time, everyone.
SPEAKER_00 (25:31):
Thanks for listening.
This show was brought to you byDivas That Care.
Connect with us on Facebook, onInstagram, and of course on
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